December 23, 2024 • 47 mins
The Detroit Lions dominated the Bears from start to finish on Sunday. Shaw Local's Sean Hammond and Michal Dwojak discuss Sunday's game and look ahead to a Thursday matchup against the Seattle Seahawks.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, and welcome back to the show Local Bears Insider Podcast.
I'm Sean Hammond Shaw, a local Bears beat reporter. He's
Michael dwojack Shaw, a local enterprise reporter. We are back
for another episode of the Bears Insider Podcast and the
Bears once.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Again We're destroyed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Michael, it was pretty ugly on Sunday against the Lions.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We both thought that this.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Was an opportunity to play the game a little bit tighter.
That did not materialize. They were down twenty points before
they were even on the scoreboard.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, it doesn't that say a lot, you know about
you know, where this team is at at this point.
I mean obviously, I know, you know, guys are playing
for contracts and guys are trying to show off and.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
You know, maybe impressive potential head coach across the sidelines
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
But you didn't really get much of it, right, like
the only like you got some points in some garbage
time when the Lions were ahead by a lot, And yeah,
I mean, he just didn't see much out of this team.
And we haven't seen much out of this team ever
since we Cluse was fired. Maybe he was bringing them together.
I don't know how you want to how you want
to correlate that and like what's been happening over the
(01:07):
past three weeks. But yeah, just not the performance I
thought that we would get. I didn't think that they
would win, but I definitely thought that there would be
a better.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Chance of winning as opposed to what happened on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
That was the having done this for a number of
years now, that was the quickest I've ever seen the
locker room just empty out, Like those guys were out
of there.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Like, yeah, nobody lingered.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I mean, they really didn't have a whole lot to say.
You kind of alluded to it, like Keenan Allen was
talking about playing for the name on the back of
his jersey and essentially, I mean essentially saying he's playing
for a free agency. You know, he's auditioning for the
thirty two teams across the league as his contract expires here.
And I mean, on some level, I understand, like I
(01:58):
don't know what else there is to say at this
point if you are those guys, especially on the defensive end,
where they're just getting destroyed. I mean, the Lions scored
on the first five possessions yesterday and the Bears could
not stop them. There's not a whole lot to say anymore,
and it sucks. It kind of feels like these guys
(02:18):
are not to say that they're going through the motions
because they do care, like they obviously want to perform
well and play well at least if nothing else, for
themselves and for their futures.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But obviously this team is over this season.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, and you know it's kind of hard because you're like, well,
you're eliminated for the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
You work all off season, you work all.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Like this isn't just like they like get to camp
and like August or you know, they start the season whatever.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
This is like mini camp.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And this is like OTAs, Like this is pretty much
you get like January, February off obviously a little bit March,
but then the rookies coming in April and then May.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
You're just kind of getting into the swing of things.
So I can get that.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Like it's it's emotional, it's mentally draining, especially the way
the Bears have kind of gone through this season, going
through a nine game losing streak.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
But at the end of the other.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Part of the day, you're just kind of like, well,
like okay, but you want to see some fight or
something like that, and then going three and out defensively
to start the game and then fumbling the ball away
on your next two possessions.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I mean, you know, we give the defense a.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Hard time for how it hasn't really performed ever since
ever Flues has played. But on the flip side, I mean,
this offense has continuously not held up as part of
the bargain at the beginning of games, and then.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
They just put up points when it's like a three
or two score game.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You can only ask a defense to carry the load
for so long, to ben don't break for so long.
And you know, we kind of saw that, We kind
of felt that with that forty nine Ers game, like
like in the first Lions game, like they did the
Lions to sixteen points when it could have been really
ugly in that first half, right, and then they fired
Fluse and and it's like the wheels came off and
(04:07):
and there was there was no more. There was no
more bend don't break, like there was nothing left. They
had nothing left to give. And it doesn't help when
the offense isn't scoring points in the first half, like
it wasn't the previous three games. They did finally score
in the first half a couple of times, but it
wasn't exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Enough to really keep it interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
No, And like I feel like at the beginning of
the season, like this was this has been a season
long problem, right, Like this is a new rate by
any means, But like I feel like at the beginning
of the season, you're you hear defensive players say, oh,
like you know, we're we're like, you know, happy to
you know, do our part or whatever, like they've got
our backs, We've got their backs, you know, when asking
about this little offense. And I feel like, you know,
(04:49):
I I you know, I haven't been inside the locker
room in a little bit, but I don't feel like
those are the answers you're hearing anymore. I feel like
you're pretty much just hearing like, you know, we're taking
care of what we need to take care of it,
Like we got burned on this player, you know, it's
unacceptable what happened or whatever. But you're not seeing much
of that, you know, quotes that you saw at the
beginning of the year where you're kind of like, well,
you know, we've got each other, Like Caleb's developing like
(05:13):
what like we've got each other's back, but now it's
just kind of like, you know, I'm not saying that
they don't have each other's back, but it just feels
like it's kind of like everyone's kind of, you know,
on their own and just trying to figure things out
and trying to figure out what the heck has happened
here over the past nine games.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Neither side of the ball is playing well, and you
can't really hang your hat on anything when when neither
side of the ball is playing well. I mean, you
and I were talking about it yesterday during the game,
like what is what are the positives from this?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
It's like there's there's nothing. There's hardly anything.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
There's there's Tory Taylor is doing all right, there's you know,
there's there's not much to point to that that gives
you any excitement. I mean, I thought Caleb played all right.
Considering you do wonder like how much of these last
couple of games he's put up some good yardage, how
much of that is is okay, the defense is up
(06:02):
by two scores, they're they're just playing prevent they're just
trying not to give up the big play and they're
okay with giving up the underneath stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I think some of that.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Is is a fair thing to question and to be
concerned about. On the other hand, I mean, you can
still turn the ball over no matter what what defense,
what the defense is playing, and he hasn't done that
for the for the most part.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I know, there was the.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Fumbled exchange with Rome early in that game, but he's
not throwing interceptions. You know, I thought Keenan Allen played
really well in that second half, But it's it's just
hard to really point to those things with any seriousness
and say, Okay, that's a that's a positive from this game.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, it is interesting because, like you've seen the stand like,
he hasn't thrown an interception.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
They're in this nine game losing streak, and.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
You you feel impressed by it, right, Like you're just
kind of like, well, that's crazy, Like how like how
is this team that you know lose or not winning
because of that? But it's also because I feel like
part of it has kind of been he's very protective
of it.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
You know, he holds on to the ball a little bit.
He didn't do that as much yesterday against the Lions.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I feel like he did a good job of scrambling
and finding some open receivers down the field. But it
is interesting because there's impressive stats. You know, he continues
to climb the Bears, you know, season passing yardage.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
And all that kind of stuff. But you're also kind
of like, well, okay, but they're not.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Winning, right, And it's kind of weird because you're just
kind of like, well, eventually you want to win because
of your quarterback, and you put it like, it's also
hard because like they were in spots to win because
of him, right, Like they're in a spot to win
against the Commanders because of him.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
They were in a spot to win against you.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Know, the Packers and the Lions and the and the
Vikings too the first time around, and they didn't win.
So it's just kind of like, well, you're not winning,
but you also are you know, trying to figure out
like what why you're not winning and.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Like what he can't get over the hump.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And it's interesting because I feel like for the most part,
everyone hit is happy with Caleb. You want to see
him continue to grow. He's shown flashes, but it is.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Interesting the conversation of like what does it all really mean?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
You know, all these yards, all this, you know, records
when your team is losing nine straight.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, it does in some ways.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
The season that the recent season this reminds me of
is is sort of like Joe Burrow's rookie year where
that Bengals team was terrible, but you could see it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You could see that Joe.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Burrow was going to be able to play in the league.
And not to say that Caleb is going to be
Joe Burrow. They're very different players. But I feel like
there's enough flashes that we've seen from Caleb over the
course of this season. I mean, he's played every single game,
he's protected the ball well, he's made some really nice throws.
I do feel like you can see it, and yeah,
(08:51):
you're right like he is. This is the sixth highest
passing yard season in Bear's history from Caleb Williams right now.
There's four j Cutler seasons ahead of him, and Eric
has the single season record just under thirty nine hundred
yards I believe, from nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So yeah, there's something there.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I feel like, if if nothing else, that's what you're
gonna take away from this season. If you're a Bears fan.
There's you've got a promising prospect.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
That that quarterback spot.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And I know that everybody knows this already, but they
just need to build around him.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yeah, that's pretty much there, right.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Like you see, if you haven't really you looked across
the sideline and you look at like if you have
good offensive line, you have some playmakers, you have a
reliable running back obviously a talented running back, and.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
A good play caller.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
You know, you all respect to Jared Goff, but like
I think Jared Dopp.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Is managing the situation, right.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I think Jared Gopp is doing a good job of
running Ben Johnson's offense. He's making plays where he needs to.
He doesn't turn the ball over, and that's why he's
found success in Detroit right after leaving Rams. And that
feels like a way where you know, I think Caleb
is you would probably say, more talented than Jared Goff
if you're just looking at you know, that type of stuff.
(10:09):
But you can see like what happens if you just
around your guy with you know, ways to succeed other
than just stacking him with like three reliable.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Good wide receivers.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
You can have a really good offense and set your
quarterback up for success. And you know, other than looking
at Ben Johnson across the sidelines and being like he'll
look good and like Bears, you know, Navy and Orange,
I think Ryan Pouls needs to look at other stuff
that the Lions did to kind of set them up for,
you know, a historic season that they're having.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, absolutely, Michael. You were over in the Lions locker
room yesterday.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
What was it.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
First of all, we've we've covered nine consecutive losses here
in Chicago. What was it like to be in the
winning locker room? That must have been a different vibe.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
It was tight.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
It was definitely tighter than it's definitely tighter than the
Bears locker room. But we were a little bit delayed
in getting in because the team was watching on their
phones the end of the Commander's Eagles game and that
obviously a big factor in there in.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Their game as well.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
But so you hear screaming and that kind of stuff
after they got the result that they wanted.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
But it was a good locker room. They won a
franchise record thirteenth straight win.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
They you just see the cohesiveness of that they have,
and that obviously comes down to Dan Campbell. Obviously he's
a really good head coach that I know a few
years ago everyone was making fun of but now look
at him and where the Lions are. But it's just
the fun locker room, right, And like obviously the emphasis
for why I went there was to figure out, you
(11:42):
know what what makes Ben Jonson so great? And you
saw that with the fake fumble play, the stumble bum
like they called it. I think if you look at
it and you you look through the records, I think
it was inspired by Jordan Love and what he was
able to do against the Bears and how that played out.
But just talking to hearing what the players had to
say after the win about even that play, and you
(12:06):
don't even have to like spend like a few seconds,
like you can ask them about the play and they're
going straight to talking about how talented Ben Johnson is.
Like that wasn't even the question they would come up
or anything like that. It pretty much was how do
you come up with the play to have your quarterback
pretend to fumble the ball? Yeah, And they're pretty much
just like we have trust in our offensive staff that
they know what Like they're doing the research. They're detail oriented,
(12:30):
they're looking at the defense is the defensive tendencies and
like what they're doing and you and they trust that
Ben Johnson and that offensive staff is going to set
them up for success.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
And it did.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Right, Like to go to a play where you have
Jared Goff like stumbling pretending to fumble the ball. You
got Jamier Gibbs, you know, falling to the ground, and
you got the offensive line yelling fumble and then like
you're selling the play and like you have to have
a full buy into that. And that's what you saw,
and that's why like we're to perfection, right, Like you
(13:02):
have an offensive mind that is obviously talented and seeing
a lot of great things, but you also have a
lot of players who are bought into it. And I
think that's the biggest thing that you can take from
Ben Johnson, Where, yeah, he's obviously a very talented, gifted
offensive play color who knows what he's doing and obviously
is going to be the top candidate in this upcoming
head coaching search, but you also see that buy in
(13:22):
that the players have. It's like they have full belief
in him and that he's trying to put them in
the best position to win.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
A game and win a championship.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, anybody who played football or who's you know, been
the high school football games. Like, anytime the ball is
on the ground, that whole sideline is yelling ball, you know.
And it sounds like that's what the Lions did with
that play with the fake stumble from Jared Goff. The
whole sideline is yelling that there's a fumble that's going
(13:50):
to catch the Bears attention out there, whether they'll say
it afterwards or not. I asked Kyler Gordon about that play.
He said he wasn't fooled on it.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You watch the replay, like you see him running towards.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
The backfield, uh maybe for a step or two, and
then realizing that the ball is not on the ground, uh,
and sort of backtracking. You can't from the TV copy,
you can't really see what's going on on the back end.
But I imagine that that he was not the only
one doing that.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Uh. That is super creative.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Like if you like, like who goes out there and
watches Jordan Love literally fumble the ball, fumble the snap
a few weeks ago or or a couple months ago,
whenever that game was Uh, and recover and just toss
up a touchdown. Who watches that and says, let's do that,
like like, let's let's intentionally do that more or less.
(14:38):
That's these guys are really watching everything. And I think that,
you know, with with Ben Johnson, like that's that's just
a creative thing.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
We saw.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
We see him trying different things. We saw that a
couple of weeks ago in Detroit when the play didn't
really work when Pins was going to throw a pass
but uh it it wasn't that far from working.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
And that's the thing, right, Like you, I think that's
why there's that belief in him and that kind of stuff,
because he is he and his staff are watching so
much tape, right Like they're looking at all the things
that all these defenses are doing, and they see a
fluke play that works against the Bears by the Packers.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
And he's like, oh, I'm going to do that.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I'm going to ask Jared Goff first if he can
fumble the ball and then pick it up.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And when Goff says no, like I.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Don't know if I'm that comfortable in doing that, He's like,
all right, we'll have you stumble instead, like that's an
insane thing. But like again, like I said, like these
players believe in him and they think that, you know,
that they can succeed because of him. And it's like
Rick says in our comments, like coaching matters. And I
think that's the biggest thing you saw in this whole
Bear season, right, Like coaching matters, whether it's late game
(15:51):
decision making, whether it's going for a challenge, whether it's
looking at your.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
You know, opponent's tendencies. You don't like the commander's hail
Mary play.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
You don't say that the thirteen yard play before the
hell Mary play doesn't matter, right, Like you understand as
a coach that these types of things matter, and you
own up for it and you are accountable for it.
And that's what you see from these successful teams. And
you know, I mean it wasn't just even the stumblebum
like the play that they call it. Like you just
see how well the offense works, the use of like
(16:22):
seven different you know targets in the game, like using
your tight end, like setting up your quarterback and your
running back for success, Like it helps to have an
offensive line that pushes five yards down the field before
Gibbs needs to worry about being head like that. That
is obviously a luxury, but there's also the coaching part
that matters. And it's good with the Lions right now.
(16:45):
And I don't know if how you're a Bears fan
after watching the game and you're not like I want
Ben Johnson number one on my list.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I mean, yeah, there is the the it's always a
concern when you're like, Okay, this guy has so many weapons,
like could you put another offensive coordinator in there and
he'd score points?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
It's kind of remarkable to look back on that Stafford
golf trade. They got the Lions got got Goff, two
first round picks and a third round pick. They wounded
up trading down a couple of times, and so in total,
I mean that trade alone got them Jared Goff, it
got them jamieir Gibbs, Sam Laporter, Jamison Williams, Josh Pascal
(17:25):
the edge rusher on the other side, and a couple
other guys on top of that, Like that is that
is a pretty remarkable way to build your team. I mean,
it's it's when you say it, it's not rocket science. Yeah,
trade your quarterback and get a bunch of picks in return,
but like they've hit on a lot of those picks.
I mean those those Sam Laporter, Jamir Gibbs, Jamison Williams,
(17:46):
those are all key key parts of your offense. Those
are all really important weapons. I mean, Gibbs with with
Montgomery Ow Gibbs is going to be the guy down
the stretch here, and and he's shown that he can
handle that. Yeah, this is uh Rick points out that
that the Rams super Bowl. I'm not saying that there
was a bad trade for the Rams. I'm just saying that,
obviously the li it really helped the Lions build this
(18:06):
team that they have right now, and who knows, they
might wind.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Up with a Super Bowl at the end of the season.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I really do think that's the trade that we're going
to be talking about for a long long time.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
And if you like want to make like, you know,
it's an apples and orange is comparison.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
It's not like right comparison.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
But if you want to look at like what the
if you want to draw equivalent between like the Bears
and the Panthers trade obviously for the number one pick. Yeah,
like obviously you've got Caleb Williams, but look at the
other picks that he's got and so far, obviously it's
much earlier in the process than it is for the Lions.
Right like this, this happened a few years ago, so
like it's much easier for us to say that trade.
(18:41):
You see the benefits of it. But you know, Darnel,
right after two years, you know, you're still trying to
figure out, you know, what you have there. He's talented
and that kind of stuff, But are you as impressed
as you would have been with having Jalen Carter? Right
You've got Tyreek Stevenson who continuously gets into fights with
Jamison Williams and obviously got burned pretty bad yesterday.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
You got a punter and that kind of stuff, and
who else is that?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Everyone that that and then obviously they still got the
second round pick next year. But yeah, you look at
what the Bears got in their draft, you know, in
their train and I don't know if you feel ass
confident at this point as the as the Lions.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Do with what they've been able to do.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Again, hindsight, you know, two years is probably different between
the trades and that kind of stuff. But if you're
a Bears fans, you want to see some of those
picks click and I don't know if you're seeing that
right now a couple of years into it.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I'm glad you brought this up because I was thinking
about this this morning and I headed it over to
tankathon dot com, who does a really cool you know
where where everybody is in the draft order the updates
every week.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Uh, yeah, that's that Panthers pick.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Man, The Bears and Panthers are picking back to back
in the second round right now, Like we've been kind
of kind of hinting at it for a couple of
weeks now, Like I think there's a legitimate chance that
the Panthers pick is going to be lower down the
order than the Bears second round than the Bear's own
second round pick.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Imagine if you said that at the beginning of the season, Like,
imagine if you said at the Bears, even if it's
the same record or they're like a game separate, where
like the Panthers are maybe a game worse or yeah,
if they're a game better that you're like, oh god,
But just imagine if you said that before the season
and just where this team is at this point.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
That's why it's so hard to especially when the trade deadline.
The trade deadline in the NFL is relatively early. I
know they moved it back a week this year, but
it's essentially, you know, just halfway through the season and
it's hard to predict where.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Some of these picks are going to wind out. That's
what happened with the Chase Claypool thing.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Like at the time the Bears were three and five,
I think, like they weren't the.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Worst team in the league.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And then we all know how that turned out. That
wound up being the thirty What was it was that
the year? Was it thirty third? Yeah, the thirty third
overall pick.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Last year was the year that the Dolphins did not
have a first round pick, so the order was a
little off. Yeah, it's you know, it's a tough time
to be embarrass fan.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
You guys know that. Rick.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
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Speaker 4 (21:14):
Let me the thumb.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
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and talk to us live. Here in the comments, I'm
gonna hit a comment here from Rick that says, if
(21:36):
we end up an eleven game losing, shrink with that
change Warren's mind on keeping Poles.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I personally don't think so. Now.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I think you can make the argument that maybe it should.
I think you could definitely make that argument. I think
I've kind of been saying this the last couple of weeks,
like like, this is gonna be Poles's build. I think
for the next couple of years. I do think that
he drafted this quarterback. They I think they're gonna let
(22:05):
him see it out, you know, at least for one
or two more seasons, see what he can build around
Caleb Williams.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Now. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Kevin Warren could be a little bit of a wild card.
He's had plenty of time to think about this. You know,
he's a guy who likes that. We've seen multiple examples
now of he likes to sleep on it, he likes
to take twenty four or forty eight hours. He's he's
gonna have five weeks of Ryan Poles minus Matt eberflush
maybe that does change his mind.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I don't know what do you think.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Michael, Yeah, I'm kind of conflicted on the whole thing,
right because you're just kind of like, I feel like
you don't get rid of a general manager, you know,
three or four years into it, especially when you especially
when you'd like one or two of those years are
teardown years, right, Like, I feel like something.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
First his first draft, those guys are still on the
rookie contract. To me, that's yeah, Like but like let
them come through.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And it's kind of like you kind of like feel
like there has to be like really bad circumstances in
order to get rid of your coach. Yeah, But then
when you kind of look at the fact of the matter,
the Bears had their worst you know, losing streak Underposed
the first time, and now they have the second longest
losing streak.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Like both the bears top two.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Losing streaks have come ever on ever in the one
hundred plus year history of the Bears have come under
Ryan Pose's leadership. And again that's with the context of
the first year being a full tear down year that
team was not meant to win. That was just your heart,
you know, signing guys to minimum contracts, trading guys away,
trying to get draft picks.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
But this year's seam was supposed to win. And I
think that's the biggest thing with.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Me where I'm just kind of like I am leaning
towards your side of the conversation, where you're like, you
let them see it through, you let them have a
second coach, you let them figure things out, and but
you kind of just look at the whole thing and
you're just kind of like, well, Caleb Williams is great,
and there are some other nice pieces you traded for
(24:05):
montest Wet. How hard is it to trade for a
really talented pass rusher, Like you didn't find him or
anything like that.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
The commanders are just.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Trying to dump salary and you took a talented player
and give him a nice contract. Other than that, like
I don't really I can't think of like too many
other home run hits that he's had, where I'm just
kind of like, well, it's been great so far. Like
all I continuously think of is Claypool and Nate Davis
and like veyleish Jones junior and none of his like
(24:33):
first draft class really making a difference for this team.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Like, I agree with you, other than.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
There's a wildcard of Kevin Warren being like, maybe I
just want my own guy.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
This isn't going well.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I have a good excuse to put in my own
guy and have my own situation. But I'm leaning like
I'm a very I'm probably like a fifty two to
forty eight lean toward Poles staying.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
But I don't feel close though.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I don't feel entirely confident in it because other than Caleb,
I don't really like the construction of his team at
this point.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
That's that's pretty close. I'd say I'm probably more seventy
five twenty five. You know, yeah, you could. You could
say DJ Moore is maybe a positive. I know that's
the same trade we're talking about with that wound up
getting them Caleb Williams. But I mean you're kind of
right though, Like there's there's there's starting to be a
(25:25):
lot of negatives that are that are outweigh in the positives.
When you look at just the build of this team,
it's it's tough, Like they look he took over a
six win football team, and he's gone, They've done all
of this, They've they've torn it down and done all this,
and they've built a four win football team. You know,
(25:45):
it's like, uh, it's it's not where you want it
to be. And it was Ryan Puls himself on Hard
Knocks who was saying it's time to win. Uh, and
clearly that hasn't been the case. I think I think
this coaching search is going to be very interesting with
the dynamic between Kevin Warren and Ryan Polts, assuming that
Poles is going to be still here well.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And I think it's interesting that you bring up Dj
Moore where obviously, you know, you you think he's a
he's obviously a very talented player, but I feel like
he would tell you he's not having the season that
he wants, Like he's having probably his worst season.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
And this is a guy who's.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Been able to put like really good numbers with like
what quarterbacks, like his quarterbacks in Carolina were not great,
and you know, for everyone who always gave Justin Fields
a hard time, he's still caught a lot of passes.
And then I know, obviously, you know with Dj Moore,
he was pretty much the only target. So yeah, he
didn't really have to share snaps as much as he
does with Roman, Keenan and Cole.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
If Cole still on the team, he.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Is, he's sort of touchdown touchdown yesterday.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
But even DJ, you're kind of like at the time,
you're like, whoa, the Bear's got to steal, like he's
worth that much more money.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
But then after this season, I.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Feel like we're kind of like, well, did they like
maybe they got him like at the right price, Like
maybe DJ is like throw a screen guy. And you know,
it's hard because how many deep passes are you able
to get going with this offensive line? Right, It's really
hard to evaluate everyone when the product on the field
and like the parts just don't match.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I can't I can't think.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I watched last season with with Justin and DJ and
and you know what he was doing in some of
those games at Washington game. Uh, And I look at
how they're using him the last couple of weeks, and
I'm just like, there, it can't be that hard to
get this guy the.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Ball down the field a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, Uh, it's it's kind of I'm okay with running
some some different stuff. Some screen passes put him in
the backfield, sure, do that kind of stuff once in
a while, but but right now, that's the only way
they're getting him the ball, and and that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I mean, he's supposed to be your top wide receiver.
That is a major problem.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Well, they're training, they're kind of treating him like a
running back, aren't they. Like they're either like handing him
off the ball or they're like throwing a screen to
him off to side and just like setting up blockers.
And like, sure, it's worked a couple of times, but
like like that touchdown pass that Caleb had to Keeman
Mallen for forty five yards down the sideline, we don't
see that with DJ right now.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
We don't see those types of plays. We don't see
we see like Rome scrambling down the middle.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
And Caleb's able to find him for some reason. And
I don't know, Like I think there was that one
shot where Caleb overthrew him and it went like the
ball bounced at the un zone and DJ way, Yeah,
but that's really the only play that I can think
of of, like a long play to DJ that's been
designed that way.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
And obviously I'm sure there have been that.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
We don't pay attention to like we don't keep a
track run every single wide receiver on every single play,
But it just doesn't feel like there hasn't been an
home run attempt with DJ at all of the season.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I wanted to look up the death of target, particularly
like you know, first half the season versus second half.
I should go back and dig that up. There's another
comment here. Did Tevin and and played their last game
as a Bear? I don't think Braxton did. Although obviously
the injury yesterday was scary and concerting.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
That could if it is, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
If it is like a broken leg or something serious
like that, that's probably gonna put him in doubt for
training camp in July.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
At least at the start, and that sucks.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Now.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I don't think that he While I do think he's
going to be a member of the team moving forward,
I don't necessarily think he's gonna be the starter. They
might still draft a left tackle, sign a left tackle.
As for Tevin, I don't know, man, The injuries have
just been too many over the years, and I have
a hard time seeing them wanting to give him. Not
(29:43):
that it would take a ton of money, like I
think you could get him at a decent price considering
like the market. He's not going to be the highest
paid guard in the league or anything like that. But
I don't know. The injuries would would really scare.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Me away a little bit. Yeah, I wouldn't give time
in acount.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I like, it's just you can find someone else who
doesn't have the injury pass. And it stinks, right because
he's shown potential, but like from day one, like I
feel like he just hasn't been able to stay on
the field, like it's just been his It's tough because
it stinks because they're like, he's a talented player, yet
it seems like he's a relative, like he's a good
leader in that room, right, but it just it just
(30:23):
hasn't working for Braxt and Jones yet. That's stunk, just
a it's never go when the card comes out. It's
a tough situation. And you got two weeks left in
the season, one of those games being on Thursday. You're
kind of like, well, maybe we just won't see him
for the rest of the year, which moves me on
to my other topic.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
And I know we got to move on to Seahawks game.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I don't know how much we need a previous I
don't know whatever, but can we talk about the Bear's
decision with Kieran Amagaji before the game?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You know, right?
Speaker 4 (30:50):
And did you like did you?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I wasn't in the locker room with you guys because
out with the Lions, did anyone explain anything about that
to me? Because it's still is baffling that we saw
Joan and we saw Hevin get injured.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
You would think.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
That's like ripe opportunity for your third round pick to
get an opportunity against a depleted Lions, you know, defensive
line at home. I know the home crowd was probably fifty.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
To fifty Lions fans, but whatever, what what are we doing?
I mean, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
I don't understand that decision at all, unless it's like
a thing where Key Roan's like pouting and I'm not
saying that he is, but like if it's one of
if if it's that sort of situation that I'm like,
all right, you can reward that by having him play.
But I don't get that decision if he was perfectly
healthy and like.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
There were no off the field issues.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
According to the injury report, he was perfectly healthy. Uh,
he was the starter ahead of Larry Boram on Monday.
He was behind Braxton and Larry come Sunday and was inactive.
We did not get an explanation from from Thomas Brown.
You know, nobody asked him that, and unfortunately the way
(32:03):
it is after these games is the coach is talking
at the same time the locker room was open. So
I stayed in the locker room today because or yesterday,
because we had you over in Detroit. In the Detroit
locker room, I wanted to make sure I got some
player perspective, So I was not actually in the room
when Thomas was speaking, but according to the transcript, that
was never asked. So that's something that we'll probably have
(32:24):
to follow up on today on Monday, because it is
a good question, like how do you go from from
the starting left tackle to behind He basically got demoted
for that performance when I said this on the show
last week, and like, it's just insane to me that
(32:45):
you put him in that position with no practice with
the starters he found out the day before. It's completely mishandled.
They completely mishandled that they should have started Larry Boram
in that Vikings game. They put Koran in a terrible position,
just just a terrible position, like whether he's you might
think that he could be something down the line. And sure,
(33:08):
I'm okay with a youth movement. I'm okay with playing
your young guys at the end of a lost season.
But my gosh, get let him practice with the starters
before you do that.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, Like I've seen the comments both CJ and right
kind of talking about like him not playing well and
maybe he's more of a guard.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
All right, put him in and have the experience, like
he has experience.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Of both positions, like both your guard and your left
tackle got injured in the game. Yeah, you have a
perfect opportunity to get him in there and get him
some reps and get him some opportunities. Like I don't
I get the frustration with Kieran. I get that it
was not good he didn't protect Caleb against the Vikings,
(33:48):
But I think there needs to be the other side
of the context where like you're putting a third round
pick who played in the All IVY League against one
of the top pass rushers in one of the top
defensive minds league. Like you, I don't think that there's
that context being put into this argument where it's like
you're putting a guy like in a position to fail,
(34:09):
Like how many people feel like the Bears put kalb
in a position to fail with the bad offensive line.
You're putting the offensive lineman in the bad position to
fail in his first start against one of the top
pass rushing defenses in the league.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, CJ says him being an active suggests he's not ready,
and yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying, Like I am,
I am okay with him being in active yesterday. He
should not have been the starter on Monday in Minnesota.
They should have done with Larry Boor Like, sure, I
know that that's easy to say after the fact when
we saw how that game went, but but I was.
(34:42):
I was baffled at that decision before the game, Like
I cannot believe that they did that to him with
with no practice with the starters. When you have a
guy in Larry Boram's who started like twenty something twenty
five games in his career.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
At both tackle spots. I just think that was a
disservice to Karan.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
And it's okay if he's not ready, Like you said, Michael,
he's a third round pick.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Out of Yale.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
What he didn't have a training camp, Like, what do
you expect It's going to take a little time for
this guy.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, exactly. It's just it's just mismanagement.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
It's the reason why the Bears are four and eleven, right,
Like it just at this point, you know, for how
great I think, you know, Ryan Poles has said a
lot of you know, pretty baffling things at this point.
You know, the taking the NFC North and never giving
it backward. Are they like two and fourteen now or.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
In fourteen against NFC North teams under Ryan Poles.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
It's either that comment or like saying that this is
that comment, saying that this team is going to be
hard to make during training camp, or saying that this
offensive line is very depth heavy and very good. I
mean those are just baffling comments to look back at now,
you know, through whatever sixteen games in the.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Year, the deepest offensive line that that Ryan Poles has had.
They had a guy named Chris Glazer active yesterday. Uh yeah,
I mean, like and no offense to him, Like I'm
sure he's a nice guy, but sure we don't. We
literally didn't know anything about him, like like at.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
All, even recording that was a problem, right, Like, no
one knew who that who this guy was.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Like before the game they sent out inactives and I
was doing the math and you know, you and I
were talking about it's like I'm only counting seven offensive
lineman here, and then we we got word through the
grapevine that they had activated a guy last.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Minute, and so yeah, it's I don't know what was
going on there.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
Yeah, it's just it's just all bad.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
And it kind of I don't know, You're just kind
of the reason why you're four and eleven right now
is just there's no there's inefficiencies and everything that is
going on with this team right now, and it's it'll
be interesting to see in a couple of weeks what
this reckoning means. Does it Is it a complete reckoning
where Kevin Warren's like the foundation is bad, this is
all bad? Is it just like you trust Ryan Poles
(36:56):
and you're like, you're doing it this way. It's very
interesting in the couple weeks when we like go to
this end of year Bears press conference to see what
are the vibes and where what is the direction of
this team right now? Because you have you've been looking
for this franchise quarterback for so long, but it feels
like literally everything else around him is not good, is
crumbling down.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, this is going to be our only show this week,
So thank you guys for joining us once again. Hit
the thumbs up if you're with us here on YouTube,
leave us a review on Spotify or Apple or wherever
you get your podcasts. We do want to address this
Seahawks game, although Michael you pointed it out earlier, like,
I don't know, I don't know what there is to
say at this point. We're heading into a Thursday night
(37:39):
game against Seattle at Soldier Field day after Christmas. The
Seahawks need a win. I mean, they're they're in the
playoff hunt. They can still win the NFC West, but
they cannot. They cannot afford to lose this game. And
so you got a Bears team going nowhere against the
Seahawks team that really needs a win. What what do
you what do you think? What do you feel when
(38:00):
you look across at the Seahawks?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Michael Well, I feel bad for the country that they
have to watch this game on Thursday night football. I mean,
it's just another national audience for this Bears team after
playing Monday Night football last couple of weeks. I just
think at this point, you know, I've said Caleb, and
I think we've said the continued growth of him. But
I think I'm gonna shift mine to just a fight
(38:23):
like you you have like pride to play for at
this point, right, like you got two weeks left or
two games left, I should say, And you're playing against
teams that are playing for stuff, right like you're playing
against the Seahawks, who are playing for their playoff lives,
and you're playing against the Packers, and I you know,
we'll see what the situation is. Maybe that game ends
up being where the Packers don't gain anything from winning,
(38:45):
so they maybe might not play their starters.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
We'll see how that goes.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
But that would be crazy if that's how the Bears
ended this Packers losing streak. Yeah, that would be Not
that I'd be super confident in the Bears to beat
the Packers' backups right now.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
But yeah, yeah, yeah. The Seahawks team, obviously, they lost
a heartbreaker to Minnesota last night, a tough interception for
Gino Smith at the end of the game. But yeah,
I just want to see that fight. I just want
to see any sort of a pulse. You know, we
haven't seen that from them over the past three weeks,
(39:20):
and it's kind of disheartening just to kind of see that.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
If you're a player, right like, you're just kind of
like you're not trying to lose. But I feel like
they're a bunch of just a bunch of things where you're.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Just kind of like, man, like, this could have been
to stop this, This like penalty is like an unforced error.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
This fumble couldn't like doesn't need to happen. You just
want to see some sort of fight.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Because I feel like we said this on Friday, like
or Thursday, whenever we talked last these guys, and its
like Keithan Allen said, these guys are playing for a contract,
these guys are playing for their future here, and there's
gonna be a lot of tape of like them getting
burned on a long player. There's gonna be plenty of
tape of like penalties that that might hurt them moving forward.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I'll believe. But when I see it, I don't see
a heartbeat coming back at all.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I mean, the vibe I've been in a lot of
losing locker rooms over the last six years. That yeah,
that that's was probably the worst. Like I said at
the top, it cleared out faster than I've ever seen
a locker room clear out. I don't see the vibe
changing in a couple of days. I don't think they
have any chance in this game, personally, most valuable Bear Michael.
(40:26):
I went with Keenan Allen for the third week in
a row, and he got me a big victory.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
You had DJ Moore Keenan of course, with the big one.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Hundred and what was one hundred and forty one yards
something like that and a touchdown twenty four point six
Fantasy points in half PPR.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
DJ Moore got you ten and a half.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
So I take a key one game lead here, eight
to seven, potentially the clinching the clinching week here for
me in week seventeen, if I can get a victory
in our best of seventeen series and I get to.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Pick first, and I'm really not sure what to do now.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Like we said last week, I'm not touching anybody on
the defensive side.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
That's been a mess.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I don't think you can accurately rely on anybody to
get an interception or to get a sack or anything.
I'm staying on the offensive end because that's where at
least they're putting up some numbers.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Now, my debate is what do I do. I don't know.
It feels a little unfair to.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Pick Keenan Allen four times in a row, but yeah,
well he is playing for something that's true. That's true.
You know, I was leaning toward mixing it up, and
I'm gonna stick with my gut. I'm gonna go with
DJ Moore. Maybe that's a huge mistake. Maybe I'm gonna
regret this when Keenan Allen has a really big game.
(41:50):
I'm going with DJ Moore as my most valuable bear.
I did consider Rome. I see Rick in the comments
says he's going with Rome for a bounce back week.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Michael, where are you at? What are you thinking?
Speaker 4 (42:01):
I'm going with Caleb.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I know Rick was upset with me for not taking
him last week, and obviously I would have won. But
I feel like I'm at a point right now where
I win regardless of when I picked Caleb.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
So I'm just gonna pick him for this.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Thursday because I think we're guarant well, obviously, stuff can
happen but he'll play. I know that he'll play Thursday.
For the most part, I can't guarantee that he'll play
in a couple weeks, just based on what could potentially happen,
and that we like the regular season Penalion Packers.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
I yes, this is your third and final Caleb choice.
I like your decision. I hesitate to think, you know,
the whole last week I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
I don't think they're gonna play Caleb in Week eighteen.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
But but the thing that I've kept coming back to
today is like, it's the Packers and they got this
terrible losing streak. Do you really think the mccaskis are
gonna let them sit Caleb against their chief rival.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
You know, we've heard the stories all over the years of.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
How much of the mccaskeys want to beat the Packers,
especially if if if the Packers have have nothing really
to play for and they rest Jordan Love, like there's
a goal opportunity to end that streak.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I on one hand, I get the arguments for sitting
Caleb at some point down the stretch here, but but
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
That's hard, that's hard.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I don't know if that would be a popular decision,
but I don't know if that really matters in the
locker room a whole lot anymore.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I mean, this this season is over.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
CJ's going with co Comette, who did get a touchdown.
We saw a col Comette sighting yesterday. He's still around,
still doing stuff.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Saw on the team.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Jerald Evert caught a pass yesterday. I had forgotten about
him too.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
Yeah, he's sure that at the beginning of the year
where we were like, oh, too tight on sets, he's
going to be so useful and wow.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
I think he probably wins the award for the guy
we talked the most about who wound up being the
least important to this team is Gerald Everett did absolutely
nothing this season. Was on the field a few times,
maybe has like three or four catches.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
I'd have to check.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, that's a tough one, all right, Michael, who you
picking in this game?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
What's your score?
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Feahawks? I know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
This game is kind of fluky to me because obviously
it's short rest, It's on Thursday. The Seahawks have to
come in, you know, I know they don't have to
fly into the East Coast, but they still have to
fly to Chicago. It's Christmas obviously on Wednesday, and Christmas
Eve on Tuesday, so that plays a factor.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
It's just a fluky week.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
So weird things can happen.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Yeah, So I think I see the Seahawks win the
other sixteen to fourteen. I think it's a close game.
I think just based on I think if this game
was on Sunday, I think the Seahawks win by a
good chunk of you know, points. But because of the
flukiness of this week and the quick turnaround, I think
(45:00):
it's a closer game.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Okay, that's interesting. That's interesting. I like where your head's at.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
It is.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
It is a weird week.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
It's hard to play on Thursday, and you're right, they're
traveling from a long way away. I just don't see
any fight in this Bears team anymore. I'm taking the Seahawks. Literally,
I'm picking my score off the top of my head here.
As I think about this, I don't know. I could
see it being something like twenty seven to sixteen or something.
There might be some ugliness to this game. The weather's
(45:30):
supposed to be fine. But yeah, I think the Seahawks.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Win by a couple of scores. I, yeah, it's just
I don't know what to expect because I think you know,
I don't know if we'll go back on all our
predictions this year, but I only you and I have
really been too accurate about like what the expectations are,
not even just like picking the team, but just like
what could potentially happen. Which isn't a great review of
our podcast. I guess I shouldn't say that out loud,
(45:54):
but like it's just.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Kind of a great review of our prediction abilities, right, But.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Like it is just interesting where it just says like
how unpredictable this team has been this year, right where
it's just like they found so many unique different.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Ways to lose and this is just where we're at
at this point.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Well that's that's that's the season in a nutshell is
the expectations were through the roof and and the reality
it has not met that. And and we were picking
the Bears a lot early on in the season, and
they had a lot of winnable games and they.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Started four and two.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
It's crazy to think about they haven't won since that
game in London. It's been it's been a pretty wild ride.
We got two more two more games to go before
this this season is mercifully over for for all Bears
fans out there, thanks for joining us live everybody one
more time. Hit the thumbs up if you're with us
here live on YouTube, leave us a review on Spotify
(46:49):
or Apple, and head to shaw local dot com. The
number one best way to support us is to subscribe
at shaw local dot com. We got a bunch of
stories up there from yesterday's game. If you want to
read Michael's stuff from the Lions locker room, head over
the I got some stuff from the Bear's locker room.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Like I said, this is gonna be our only show
this week.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
We will come get back with you guys next week
to preview that Packers game. He's Michael Dwojack. You can
find him on Twitter at m Dwojack ninety four. I'm
Sean Hammond. I'm at Sewan Underscore Hammond. This has been
the Shaw Local Bears Insider podcast.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Thanks for listening, everybody,
Hello, and welcome back to the show Local Bears Insider Podcast.
I'm Sean Hammond Shaw, a local Bears beat reporter. He's
Michael dwojack Shaw, a local enterprise reporter. We are back
for another episode of the Bears Insider Podcast and the
Bears once.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Again We're destroyed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Michael, it was pretty ugly on Sunday against the Lions.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We both thought that this.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Was an opportunity to play the game a little bit tighter.
That did not materialize. They were down twenty points before
they were even on the scoreboard.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah, it doesn't that say a lot, you know about
you know, where this team is at at this point.
I mean obviously, I know, you know, guys are playing
for contracts and guys are trying to show off and.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
You know, maybe impressive potential head coach across the sidelines
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
But you didn't really get much of it, right, like
the only like you got some points in some garbage
time when the Lions were ahead by a lot, And yeah,
I mean, he just didn't see much out of this team.
And we haven't seen much out of this team ever
since we Cluse was fired. Maybe he was bringing them together.
I don't know how you want to how you want
to correlate that and like what's been happening over the
(01:07):
past three weeks. But yeah, just not the performance I
thought that we would get. I didn't think that they
would win, but I definitely thought that there would be
a better.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Chance of winning as opposed to what happened on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
That was the having done this for a number of
years now, that was the quickest I've ever seen the
locker room just empty out, Like those guys were out
of there.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Like, yeah, nobody lingered.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
I mean, they really didn't have a whole lot to say.
You kind of alluded to it, like Keenan Allen was
talking about playing for the name on the back of
his jersey and essentially, I mean essentially saying he's playing
for a free agency. You know, he's auditioning for the
thirty two teams across the league as his contract expires here.
And I mean, on some level, I understand, like I
(01:58):
don't know what else there is to say at this
point if you are those guys, especially on the defensive end,
where they're just getting destroyed. I mean, the Lions scored
on the first five possessions yesterday and the Bears could
not stop them. There's not a whole lot to say anymore,
and it sucks. It kind of feels like these guys
(02:18):
are not to say that they're going through the motions
because they do care, like they obviously want to perform
well and play well at least if nothing else, for
themselves and for their futures.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
But obviously this team is over this season.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah, and you know it's kind of hard because you're like, well,
you're eliminated for the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
You work all off season, you work all.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Like this isn't just like they like get to camp
and like August or you know, they start the season whatever.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
This is like mini camp.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
And this is like OTAs, Like this is pretty much
you get like January, February off obviously a little bit March,
but then the rookies coming in April and then May.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
You're just kind of getting into the swing of things.
So I can get that.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Like it's it's emotional, it's mentally draining, especially the way
the Bears have kind of gone through this season, going
through a nine game losing streak.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
But at the end of the other.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Part of the day, you're just kind of like, well,
like okay, but you want to see some fight or
something like that, and then going three and out defensively
to start the game and then fumbling the ball away
on your next two possessions.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
I mean, you know, we give the defense a.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Hard time for how it hasn't really performed ever since
ever Flues has played. But on the flip side, I mean,
this offense has continuously not held up as part of
the bargain at the beginning of games, and then.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
They just put up points when it's like a three
or two score game.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You can only ask a defense to carry the load
for so long, to ben don't break for so long.
And you know, we kind of saw that, We kind
of felt that with that forty nine Ers game, like
like in the first Lions game, like they did the
Lions to sixteen points when it could have been really
ugly in that first half, right, and then they fired
Fluse and and it's like the wheels came off and
(04:07):
and there was there was no more. There was no
more bend don't break, like there was nothing left. They
had nothing left to give. And it doesn't help when
the offense isn't scoring points in the first half, like
it wasn't the previous three games. They did finally score
in the first half a couple of times, but it
wasn't exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Enough to really keep it interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
No, And like I feel like at the beginning of
the season, like this was this has been a season
long problem, right, Like this is a new rate by
any means, But like I feel like at the beginning
of the season, you're you hear defensive players say, oh,
like you know, we're we're like, you know, happy to
you know, do our part or whatever, like they've got
our backs, We've got their backs, you know, when asking
about this little offense. And I feel like, you know,
(04:49):
I I you know, I haven't been inside the locker
room in a little bit, but I don't feel like
those are the answers you're hearing anymore. I feel like
you're pretty much just hearing like, you know, we're taking
care of what we need to take care of it,
Like we got burned on this player, you know, it's
unacceptable what happened or whatever. But you're not seeing much
of that, you know, quotes that you saw at the
beginning of the year where you're kind of like, well,
you know, we've got each other, Like Caleb's developing like
(05:13):
what like we've got each other's back, but now it's
just kind of like, you know, I'm not saying that
they don't have each other's back, but it just feels
like it's kind of like everyone's kind of, you know,
on their own and just trying to figure things out
and trying to figure out what the heck has happened
here over the past nine games.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Neither side of the ball is playing well, and you
can't really hang your hat on anything when when neither
side of the ball is playing well. I mean, you
and I were talking about it yesterday during the game,
like what is what are the positives from this?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
It's like there's there's nothing. There's hardly anything.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
There's there's Tory Taylor is doing all right, there's you know,
there's there's not much to point to that that gives
you any excitement. I mean, I thought Caleb played all right.
Considering you do wonder like how much of these last
couple of games he's put up some good yardage, how
much of that is is okay, the defense is up
(06:02):
by two scores, they're they're just playing prevent they're just
trying not to give up the big play and they're
okay with giving up the underneath stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I think some of that.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Is is a fair thing to question and to be
concerned about. On the other hand, I mean, you can
still turn the ball over no matter what what defense,
what the defense is playing, and he hasn't done that
for the for the most part.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I know, there was the.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Fumbled exchange with Rome early in that game, but he's
not throwing interceptions. You know, I thought Keenan Allen played
really well in that second half, But it's it's just
hard to really point to those things with any seriousness
and say, Okay, that's a that's a positive from this game.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, it is interesting because, like you've seen the stand like,
he hasn't thrown an interception.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
They're in this nine game losing streak, and.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
You you feel impressed by it, right, Like you're just
kind of like, well, that's crazy, Like how like how
is this team that you know lose or not winning
because of that? But it's also because I feel like
part of it has kind of been he's very protective
of it.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
You know, he holds on to the ball a little bit.
He didn't do that as much yesterday against the Lions.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I feel like he did a good job of scrambling
and finding some open receivers down the field. But it
is interesting because there's impressive stats. You know, he continues
to climb the Bears, you know, season passing yardage.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
And all that kind of stuff. But you're also kind
of like, well, okay, but they're not.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Winning, right, And it's kind of weird because you're just
kind of like, well, eventually you want to win because
of your quarterback, and you put it like, it's also
hard because like they were in spots to win because
of him, right, Like they're in a spot to win
against the Commanders because of him.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
They were in a spot to win against you.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Know, the Packers and the Lions and the and the
Vikings too the first time around, and they didn't win.
So it's just kind of like, well, you're not winning,
but you also are you know, trying to figure out
like what why you're not winning and.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Like what he can't get over the hump.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And it's interesting because I feel like for the most part,
everyone hit is happy with Caleb. You want to see
him continue to grow. He's shown flashes, but it is.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Interesting the conversation of like what does it all really mean?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
You know, all these yards, all this, you know, records
when your team is losing nine straight.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, it does in some ways.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
The season that the recent season this reminds me of
is is sort of like Joe Burrow's rookie year where
that Bengals team was terrible, but you could see it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You could see that Joe.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Burrow was going to be able to play in the league.
And not to say that Caleb is going to be
Joe Burrow. They're very different players. But I feel like
there's enough flashes that we've seen from Caleb over the
course of this season. I mean, he's played every single game,
he's protected the ball well, he's made some really nice throws.
I do feel like you can see it, and yeah,
(08:51):
you're right like he is. This is the sixth highest
passing yard season in Bear's history from Caleb Williams right now.
There's four j Cutler seasons ahead of him, and Eric
has the single season record just under thirty nine hundred
yards I believe, from nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So yeah, there's something there.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I feel like, if if nothing else, that's what you're
gonna take away from this season. If you're a Bears fan.
There's you've got a promising prospect.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
That that quarterback spot.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And I know that everybody knows this already, but they
just need to build around him.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yeah, that's pretty much there, right.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Like you see, if you haven't really you looked across
the sideline and you look at like if you have
good offensive line, you have some playmakers, you have a
reliable running back obviously a talented running back, and.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
A good play caller.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
You know, you all respect to Jared Goff, but like
I think Jared Dopp.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
Is managing the situation, right.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
I think Jared Gopp is doing a good job of
running Ben Johnson's offense. He's making plays where he needs to.
He doesn't turn the ball over, and that's why he's
found success in Detroit right after leaving Rams. And that
feels like a way where you know, I think Caleb
is you would probably say, more talented than Jared Goff
if you're just looking at you know, that type of stuff.
(10:09):
But you can see like what happens if you just
around your guy with you know, ways to succeed other
than just stacking him with like three reliable.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
Good wide receivers.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
You can have a really good offense and set your
quarterback up for success. And you know, other than looking
at Ben Johnson across the sidelines and being like he'll
look good and like Bears, you know, Navy and Orange,
I think Ryan Pouls needs to look at other stuff
that the Lions did to kind of set them up for,
you know, a historic season that they're having.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, absolutely, Michael. You were over in the Lions locker
room yesterday.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
What was it.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
First of all, we've we've covered nine consecutive losses here
in Chicago. What was it like to be in the
winning locker room? That must have been a different vibe.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
It was tight.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
It was definitely tighter than it's definitely tighter than the
Bears locker room. But we were a little bit delayed
in getting in because the team was watching on their
phones the end of the Commander's Eagles game and that
obviously a big factor in there in.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Their game as well.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
But so you hear screaming and that kind of stuff
after they got the result that they wanted.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
But it was a good locker room. They won a
franchise record thirteenth straight win.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
They you just see the cohesiveness of that they have,
and that obviously comes down to Dan Campbell. Obviously he's
a really good head coach that I know a few
years ago everyone was making fun of but now look
at him and where the Lions are. But it's just
the fun locker room, right, And like obviously the emphasis
for why I went there was to figure out, you
(11:42):
know what what makes Ben Jonson so great? And you
saw that with the fake fumble play, the stumble bum
like they called it. I think if you look at
it and you you look through the records, I think
it was inspired by Jordan Love and what he was
able to do against the Bears and how that played out.
But just talking to hearing what the players had to
say after the win about even that play, and you
(12:06):
don't even have to like spend like a few seconds,
like you can ask them about the play and they're
going straight to talking about how talented Ben Johnson is.
Like that wasn't even the question they would come up
or anything like that. It pretty much was how do
you come up with the play to have your quarterback
pretend to fumble the ball? Yeah, And they're pretty much
just like we have trust in our offensive staff that
they know what Like they're doing the research. They're detail oriented,
(12:30):
they're looking at the defense is the defensive tendencies and
like what they're doing and you and they trust that
Ben Johnson and that offensive staff is going to set
them up for success.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
And it did.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Right, Like to go to a play where you have
Jared Goff like stumbling pretending to fumble the ball. You
got Jamier Gibbs, you know, falling to the ground, and
you got the offensive line yelling fumble and then like
you're selling the play and like you have to have
a full buy into that. And that's what you saw,
and that's why like we're to perfection, right, Like you
(13:02):
have an offensive mind that is obviously talented and seeing
a lot of great things, but you also have a
lot of players who are bought into it. And I
think that's the biggest thing that you can take from
Ben Johnson, Where, yeah, he's obviously a very talented, gifted
offensive play color who knows what he's doing and obviously
is going to be the top candidate in this upcoming
head coaching search, but you also see that buy in
(13:22):
that the players have. It's like they have full belief
in him and that he's trying to put them in
the best position to win.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
A game and win a championship.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, anybody who played football or who's you know, been
the high school football games. Like, anytime the ball is
on the ground, that whole sideline is yelling ball, you know.
And it sounds like that's what the Lions did with
that play with the fake stumble from Jared Goff. The
whole sideline is yelling that there's a fumble that's going
(13:50):
to catch the Bears attention out there, whether they'll say
it afterwards or not. I asked Kyler Gordon about that play.
He said he wasn't fooled on it.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You watch the replay, like you see him running towards.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
The backfield, uh maybe for a step or two, and
then realizing that the ball is not on the ground, uh,
and sort of backtracking. You can't from the TV copy,
you can't really see what's going on on the back end.
But I imagine that that he was not the only
one doing that.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Uh. That is super creative.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Like if you like, like who goes out there and
watches Jordan Love literally fumble the ball, fumble the snap
a few weeks ago or or a couple months ago,
whenever that game was Uh, and recover and just toss
up a touchdown. Who watches that and says, let's do that,
like like, let's let's intentionally do that more or less.
(14:38):
That's these guys are really watching everything. And I think that,
you know, with with Ben Johnson, like that's that's just
a creative thing.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
We saw.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
We see him trying different things. We saw that a
couple of weeks ago in Detroit when the play didn't
really work when Pins was going to throw a pass
but uh it it wasn't that far from working.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
And that's the thing, right, Like you, I think that's
why there's that belief in him and that kind of stuff,
because he is he and his staff are watching so
much tape, right Like they're looking at all the things
that all these defenses are doing, and they see a
fluke play that works against the Bears by the Packers.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
And he's like, oh, I'm going to do that.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I'm going to ask Jared Goff first if he can
fumble the ball and then pick it up.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
And when Goff says no, like I.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Don't know if I'm that comfortable in doing that, He's like,
all right, we'll have you stumble instead, like that's an
insane thing. But like again, like I said, like these
players believe in him and they think that, you know,
that they can succeed because of him. And it's like
Rick says in our comments, like coaching matters. And I
think that's the biggest thing you saw in this whole
Bear season, right, Like coaching matters, whether it's late game
(15:51):
decision making, whether it's going for a challenge, whether it's
looking at your.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
You know, opponent's tendencies. You don't like the commander's hail
Mary play.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
You don't say that the thirteen yard play before the
hell Mary play doesn't matter, right, Like you understand as
a coach that these types of things matter, and you
own up for it and you are accountable for it.
And that's what you see from these successful teams. And
you know, I mean it wasn't just even the stumblebum
like the play that they call it. Like you just
see how well the offense works, the use of like
(16:22):
seven different you know targets in the game, like using
your tight end, like setting up your quarterback and your
running back for success, Like it helps to have an
offensive line that pushes five yards down the field before
Gibbs needs to worry about being head like that. That
is obviously a luxury, but there's also the coaching part
that matters. And it's good with the Lions right now.
(16:45):
And I don't know if how you're a Bears fan
after watching the game and you're not like I want
Ben Johnson number one on my list.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I mean, yeah, there is the the it's always a
concern when you're like, Okay, this guy has so many weapons,
like could you put another offensive coordinator in there and
he'd score points?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
It's kind of remarkable to look back on that Stafford
golf trade. They got the Lions got got Goff, two
first round picks and a third round pick. They wounded
up trading down a couple of times, and so in total,
I mean that trade alone got them Jared Goff, it
got them jamieir Gibbs, Sam Laporter, Jamison Williams, Josh Pascal
(17:25):
the edge rusher on the other side, and a couple
other guys on top of that, Like that is that
is a pretty remarkable way to build your team. I mean,
it's it's when you say it, it's not rocket science. Yeah,
trade your quarterback and get a bunch of picks in return,
but like they've hit on a lot of those picks.
I mean those those Sam Laporter, Jamir Gibbs, Jamison Williams,
(17:46):
those are all key key parts of your offense. Those
are all really important weapons. I mean, Gibbs with with
Montgomery Ow Gibbs is going to be the guy down
the stretch here, and and he's shown that he can
handle that. Yeah, this is uh Rick points out that
that the Rams super Bowl. I'm not saying that there
was a bad trade for the Rams. I'm just saying that,
obviously the li it really helped the Lions build this
(18:06):
team that they have right now, and who knows, they
might wind.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Up with a Super Bowl at the end of the season.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
I really do think that's the trade that we're going
to be talking about for a long long time.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
And if you like want to make like, you know,
it's an apples and orange is comparison.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
It's not like right comparison.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
But if you want to look at like what the
if you want to draw equivalent between like the Bears
and the Panthers trade obviously for the number one pick. Yeah,
like obviously you've got Caleb Williams, but look at the
other picks that he's got and so far, obviously it's
much earlier in the process than it is for the Lions.
Right like this, this happened a few years ago, so
like it's much easier for us to say that trade.
(18:41):
You see the benefits of it. But you know, Darnel,
right after two years, you know, you're still trying to
figure out, you know, what you have there. He's talented
and that kind of stuff, But are you as impressed
as you would have been with having Jalen Carter? Right
You've got Tyreek Stevenson who continuously gets into fights with
Jamison Williams and obviously got burned pretty bad yesterday.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
You got a punter and that kind of stuff, and
who else is that?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Everyone that that and then obviously they still got the
second round pick next year. But yeah, you look at
what the Bears got in their draft, you know, in
their train and I don't know if you feel ass
confident at this point as the as the Lions.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Do with what they've been able to do.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Again, hindsight, you know, two years is probably different between
the trades and that kind of stuff. But if you're
a Bears fans, you want to see some of those
picks click and I don't know if you're seeing that
right now a couple of years into it.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I'm glad you brought this up because I was thinking
about this this morning and I headed it over to
tankathon dot com, who does a really cool you know
where where everybody is in the draft order the updates
every week.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Uh, yeah, that's that Panthers pick.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Man, The Bears and Panthers are picking back to back
in the second round right now, Like we've been kind
of kind of hinting at it for a couple of
weeks now, Like I think there's a legitimate chance that
the Panthers pick is going to be lower down the
order than the Bears second round than the Bear's own
second round pick.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Imagine if you said that at the beginning of the season, Like,
imagine if you said at the Bears, even if it's
the same record or they're like a game separate, where
like the Panthers are maybe a game worse or yeah,
if they're a game better that you're like, oh god,
But just imagine if you said that before the season
and just where this team is at this point.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
That's why it's so hard to especially when the trade deadline.
The trade deadline in the NFL is relatively early. I
know they moved it back a week this year, but
it's essentially, you know, just halfway through the season and
it's hard to predict where.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Some of these picks are going to wind out. That's
what happened with the Chase Claypool thing.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Like at the time the Bears were three and five,
I think, like they weren't the.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
Worst team in the league.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And then we all know how that turned out. That
wound up being the thirty What was it was that
the year? Was it thirty third? Yeah, the thirty third
overall pick.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Last year was the year that the Dolphins did not
have a first round pick, so the order was a
little off. Yeah, it's you know, it's a tough time
to be embarrass fan.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
You guys know that. Rick.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
If you're joining us here on YouTube, do us favor
hit the thumbs up. That's a great way to support
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Speaker 4 (21:14):
Let me the thumb.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Where's our little thumb at? Am I up there it is?
We would really appreciate that. If you're listening after the
fact on Apple or Spotify, keep an eye on our
Twitter pages. We'll let you know when we're gonna go live.
You can join us. You can see our lovely faces
and talk to us live. Here in the comments, I'm
gonna hit a comment here from Rick that says, if
(21:36):
we end up an eleven game losing, shrink with that
change Warren's mind on keeping Poles.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I personally don't think so. Now.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I think you can make the argument that maybe it should.
I think you could definitely make that argument. I think
I've kind of been saying this the last couple of weeks,
like like, this is gonna be Poles's build. I think
for the next couple of years. I do think that
he drafted this quarterback. They I think they're gonna let
(22:05):
him see it out, you know, at least for one
or two more seasons, see what he can build around
Caleb Williams.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Now. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Kevin Warren could be a little bit of a wild card.
He's had plenty of time to think about this. You know,
he's a guy who likes that. We've seen multiple examples
now of he likes to sleep on it, he likes
to take twenty four or forty eight hours. He's he's
gonna have five weeks of Ryan Poles minus Matt eberflush
maybe that does change his mind.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I don't know what do you think.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Michael, Yeah, I'm kind of conflicted on the whole thing,
right because you're just kind of like, I feel like
you don't get rid of a general manager, you know,
three or four years into it, especially when you especially
when you'd like one or two of those years are
teardown years, right, Like, I feel like something.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
First his first draft, those guys are still on the
rookie contract. To me, that's yeah, Like but like let
them come through.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And it's kind of like you kind of like feel
like there has to be like really bad circumstances in
order to get rid of your coach. Yeah, But then
when you kind of look at the fact of the matter,
the Bears had their worst you know, losing streak Underposed
the first time, and now they have the second longest
losing streak.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Like both the bears top two.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Losing streaks have come ever on ever in the one
hundred plus year history of the Bears have come under
Ryan Pose's leadership. And again that's with the context of
the first year being a full tear down year that
team was not meant to win. That was just your heart,
you know, signing guys to minimum contracts, trading guys away,
trying to get draft picks.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
But this year's seam was supposed to win. And I
think that's the biggest thing with.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Me where I'm just kind of like I am leaning
towards your side of the conversation, where you're like, you
let them see it through, you let them have a
second coach, you let them figure things out, and but
you kind of just look at the whole thing and
you're just kind of like, well, Caleb Williams is great,
and there are some other nice pieces you traded for
(24:05):
montest Wet. How hard is it to trade for a
really talented pass rusher, Like you didn't find him or
anything like that.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
The commanders are just.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Trying to dump salary and you took a talented player
and give him a nice contract. Other than that, like
I don't really I can't think of like too many
other home run hits that he's had, where I'm just
kind of like, well, it's been great so far. Like
all I continuously think of is Claypool and Nate Davis
and like veyleish Jones junior and none of his like
(24:33):
first draft class really making a difference for this team.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Like, I agree with you, other than.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
There's a wildcard of Kevin Warren being like, maybe I
just want my own guy.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
This isn't going well.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I have a good excuse to put in my own
guy and have my own situation. But I'm leaning like
I'm a very I'm probably like a fifty two to
forty eight lean toward Poles staying.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
But I don't feel close though.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
I don't feel entirely confident in it because other than Caleb,
I don't really like the construction of his team at
this point.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
That's that's pretty close. I'd say I'm probably more seventy
five twenty five. You know, yeah, you could. You could
say DJ Moore is maybe a positive. I know that's
the same trade we're talking about with that wound up
getting them Caleb Williams. But I mean you're kind of
right though, Like there's there's there's starting to be a
(25:25):
lot of negatives that are that are outweigh in the positives.
When you look at just the build of this team,
it's it's tough, Like they look he took over a
six win football team, and he's gone, They've done all
of this, They've they've torn it down and done all this,
and they've built a four win football team. You know,
(25:45):
it's like, uh, it's it's not where you want it
to be. And it was Ryan Puls himself on Hard
Knocks who was saying it's time to win. Uh, and
clearly that hasn't been the case. I think I think
this coaching search is going to be very interesting with
the dynamic between Kevin Warren and Ryan Polts, assuming that
Poles is going to be still here well.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And I think it's interesting that you bring up Dj
Moore where obviously, you know, you you think he's a
he's obviously a very talented player, but I feel like
he would tell you he's not having the season that
he wants, Like he's having probably his worst season.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
And this is a guy who's.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Been able to put like really good numbers with like
what quarterbacks, like his quarterbacks in Carolina were not great,
and you know, for everyone who always gave Justin Fields
a hard time, he's still caught a lot of passes.
And then I know, obviously, you know with Dj Moore,
he was pretty much the only target. So yeah, he
didn't really have to share snaps as much as he
does with Roman, Keenan and Cole.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
If Cole still on the team, he.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Is, he's sort of touchdown touchdown yesterday.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
But even DJ, you're kind of like at the time,
you're like, whoa, the Bear's got to steal, like he's
worth that much more money.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
But then after this season, I.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Feel like we're kind of like, well, did they like
maybe they got him like at the right price, Like
maybe DJ is like throw a screen guy. And you know,
it's hard because how many deep passes are you able
to get going with this offensive line? Right, It's really
hard to evaluate everyone when the product on the field
and like the parts just don't match.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
I can't I can't think.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I watched last season with with Justin and DJ and
and you know what he was doing in some of
those games at Washington game. Uh, And I look at
how they're using him the last couple of weeks, and
I'm just like, there, it can't be that hard to
get this guy the.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Ball down the field a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, Uh, it's it's kind of I'm okay with running
some some different stuff. Some screen passes put him in
the backfield, sure, do that kind of stuff once in
a while, but but right now, that's the only way
they're getting him the ball, and and that's a problem.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I mean, he's supposed to be your top wide receiver.
That is a major problem.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Well, they're training, they're kind of treating him like a
running back, aren't they. Like they're either like handing him
off the ball or they're like throwing a screen to
him off to side and just like setting up blockers.
And like, sure, it's worked a couple of times, but
like like that touchdown pass that Caleb had to Keeman
Mallen for forty five yards down the sideline, we don't
see that with DJ right now.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
We don't see those types of plays. We don't see
we see like Rome scrambling down the middle.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
And Caleb's able to find him for some reason. And
I don't know, Like I think there was that one
shot where Caleb overthrew him and it went like the
ball bounced at the un zone and DJ way, Yeah,
but that's really the only play that I can think
of of, like a long play to DJ that's been
designed that way.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
And obviously I'm sure there have been that.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
We don't pay attention to like we don't keep a
track run every single wide receiver on every single play,
But it just doesn't feel like there hasn't been an
home run attempt with DJ at all of the season.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I wanted to look up the death of target, particularly
like you know, first half the season versus second half.
I should go back and dig that up. There's another
comment here. Did Tevin and and played their last game
as a Bear? I don't think Braxton did. Although obviously
the injury yesterday was scary and concerting.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
That could if it is, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
If it is like a broken leg or something serious
like that, that's probably gonna put him in doubt for
training camp in July.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
At least at the start, and that sucks.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Now.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I don't think that he While I do think he's
going to be a member of the team moving forward,
I don't necessarily think he's gonna be the starter. They
might still draft a left tackle, sign a left tackle.
As for Tevin, I don't know, man, The injuries have
just been too many over the years, and I have
a hard time seeing them wanting to give him. Not
(29:43):
that it would take a ton of money, like I
think you could get him at a decent price considering
like the market. He's not going to be the highest
paid guard in the league or anything like that. But
I don't know. The injuries would would really scare.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Me away a little bit. Yeah, I wouldn't give time
in acount.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I like, it's just you can find someone else who
doesn't have the injury pass. And it stinks, right because
he's shown potential, but like from day one, like I
feel like he just hasn't been able to stay on
the field, like it's just been his It's tough because
it stinks because they're like, he's a talented player, yet
it seems like he's a relative, like he's a good
leader in that room, right, but it just it just
(30:23):
hasn't working for Braxt and Jones yet. That's stunk, just
a it's never go when the card comes out. It's
a tough situation. And you got two weeks left in
the season, one of those games being on Thursday. You're
kind of like, well, maybe we just won't see him
for the rest of the year, which moves me on
to my other topic.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
And I know we got to move on to Seahawks game.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I don't know how much we need a previous I
don't know whatever, but can we talk about the Bear's
decision with Kieran Amagaji before the game?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
You know, right?
Speaker 4 (30:50):
And did you like did you?
Speaker 3 (30:52):
I wasn't in the locker room with you guys because
out with the Lions, did anyone explain anything about that
to me? Because it's still is baffling that we saw
Joan and we saw Hevin get injured.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
You would think.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
That's like ripe opportunity for your third round pick to
get an opportunity against a depleted Lions, you know, defensive
line at home. I know the home crowd was probably fifty.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
To fifty Lions fans, but whatever, what what are we doing?
I mean, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
I don't understand that decision at all, unless it's like
a thing where Key Roan's like pouting and I'm not
saying that he is, but like if it's one of
if if it's that sort of situation that I'm like,
all right, you can reward that by having him play.
But I don't get that decision if he was perfectly
healthy and like.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
There were no off the field issues.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
According to the injury report, he was perfectly healthy. Uh,
he was the starter ahead of Larry Boram on Monday.
He was behind Braxton and Larry come Sunday and was inactive.
We did not get an explanation from from Thomas Brown.
You know, nobody asked him that, and unfortunately the way
(32:03):
it is after these games is the coach is talking
at the same time the locker room was open. So
I stayed in the locker room today because or yesterday,
because we had you over in Detroit. In the Detroit
locker room, I wanted to make sure I got some
player perspective, So I was not actually in the room
when Thomas was speaking, but according to the transcript, that
was never asked. So that's something that we'll probably have
(32:24):
to follow up on today on Monday, because it is
a good question, like how do you go from from
the starting left tackle to behind He basically got demoted
for that performance when I said this on the show
last week, and like, it's just insane to me that
(32:45):
you put him in that position with no practice with
the starters he found out the day before. It's completely mishandled.
They completely mishandled that they should have started Larry Boram
in that Vikings game. They put Koran in a terrible position,
just just a terrible position, like whether he's you might
think that he could be something down the line. And sure,
(33:08):
I'm okay with a youth movement. I'm okay with playing
your young guys at the end of a lost season.
But my gosh, get let him practice with the starters
before you do that.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, Like I've seen the comments both CJ and right
kind of talking about like him not playing well and
maybe he's more of a guard.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
All right, put him in and have the experience, like
he has experience.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Of both positions, like both your guard and your left
tackle got injured in the game. Yeah, you have a
perfect opportunity to get him in there and get him
some reps and get him some opportunities. Like I don't
I get the frustration with Kieran. I get that it
was not good he didn't protect Caleb against the Vikings,
(33:48):
But I think there needs to be the other side
of the context where like you're putting a third round
pick who played in the All IVY League against one
of the top pass rushers in one of the top
defensive minds league. Like you, I don't think that there's
that context being put into this argument where it's like
you're putting a guy like in a position to fail,
(34:09):
Like how many people feel like the Bears put kalb
in a position to fail with the bad offensive line.
You're putting the offensive lineman in the bad position to
fail in his first start against one of the top
pass rushing defenses in the league.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, CJ says him being an active suggests he's not ready,
and yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying, Like I am,
I am okay with him being in active yesterday. He
should not have been the starter on Monday in Minnesota.
They should have done with Larry Boor Like, sure, I
know that that's easy to say after the fact when
we saw how that game went, but but I was.
(34:42):
I was baffled at that decision before the game, Like
I cannot believe that they did that to him with
with no practice with the starters. When you have a
guy in Larry Boram's who started like twenty something twenty
five games in his career.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
At both tackle spots. I just think that was a
disservice to Karan.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
And it's okay if he's not ready, Like you said, Michael,
he's a third round pick.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Out of Yale.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
What he didn't have a training camp, Like, what do
you expect It's going to take a little time for
this guy.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, exactly. It's just it's just mismanagement.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
It's the reason why the Bears are four and eleven, right,
Like it just at this point, you know, for how
great I think, you know, Ryan Poles has said a
lot of you know, pretty baffling things at this point.
You know, the taking the NFC North and never giving
it backward. Are they like two and fourteen now or.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
In fourteen against NFC North teams under Ryan Poles.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
It's either that comment or like saying that this is
that comment, saying that this team is going to be
hard to make during training camp, or saying that this
offensive line is very depth heavy and very good. I
mean those are just baffling comments to look back at now,
you know, through whatever sixteen games in the.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Year, the deepest offensive line that that Ryan Poles has had.
They had a guy named Chris Glazer active yesterday. Uh yeah,
I mean, like and no offense to him, Like I'm
sure he's a nice guy, but sure we don't. We
literally didn't know anything about him, like like at.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
All, even recording that was a problem, right, Like, no
one knew who that who this guy was.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Like before the game they sent out inactives and I
was doing the math and you know, you and I
were talking about it's like I'm only counting seven offensive
lineman here, and then we we got word through the
grapevine that they had activated a guy last.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Minute, and so yeah, it's I don't know what was
going on there.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
Yeah, it's just it's just all bad.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
And it kind of I don't know, You're just kind
of the reason why you're four and eleven right now
is just there's no there's inefficiencies and everything that is
going on with this team right now, and it's it'll
be interesting to see in a couple of weeks what
this reckoning means. Does it Is it a complete reckoning
where Kevin Warren's like the foundation is bad, this is
all bad? Is it just like you trust Ryan Poles
(36:56):
and you're like, you're doing it this way. It's very
interesting in the couple weeks when we like go to
this end of year Bears press conference to see what
are the vibes and where what is the direction of
this team right now? Because you have you've been looking
for this franchise quarterback for so long, but it feels
like literally everything else around him is not good, is
crumbling down.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, this is going to be our only show this week,
So thank you guys for joining us once again. Hit
the thumbs up if you're with us here on YouTube,
leave us a review on Spotify or Apple or wherever
you get your podcasts. We do want to address this
Seahawks game, although Michael you pointed it out earlier, like,
I don't know, I don't know what there is to
say at this point. We're heading into a Thursday night
(37:39):
game against Seattle at Soldier Field day after Christmas. The
Seahawks need a win. I mean, they're they're in the
playoff hunt. They can still win the NFC West, but
they cannot. They cannot afford to lose this game. And
so you got a Bears team going nowhere against the
Seahawks team that really needs a win. What what do
you what do you think? What do you feel when
(38:00):
you look across at the Seahawks?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Michael Well, I feel bad for the country that they
have to watch this game on Thursday night football. I mean,
it's just another national audience for this Bears team after
playing Monday Night football last couple of weeks. I just
think at this point, you know, I've said Caleb, and
I think we've said the continued growth of him. But
I think I'm gonna shift mine to just a fight
(38:23):
like you you have like pride to play for at
this point, right, like you got two weeks left or
two games left, I should say, And you're playing against
teams that are playing for stuff, right like you're playing
against the Seahawks, who are playing for their playoff lives,
and you're playing against the Packers, and I you know,
we'll see what the situation is. Maybe that game ends
up being where the Packers don't gain anything from winning,
(38:45):
so they maybe might not play their starters.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
We'll see how that goes.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
But that would be crazy if that's how the Bears
ended this Packers losing streak. Yeah, that would be Not
that I'd be super confident in the Bears to beat
the Packers' backups right now.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
But yeah, yeah, yeah. The Seahawks team, obviously, they lost
a heartbreaker to Minnesota last night, a tough interception for
Gino Smith at the end of the game. But yeah,
I just want to see that fight. I just want
to see any sort of a pulse. You know, we
haven't seen that from them over the past three weeks,
(39:20):
and it's kind of disheartening just to kind of see that.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
If you're a player, right like, you're just kind of
like you're not trying to lose. But I feel like
they're a bunch of just a bunch of things where you're.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Just kind of like, man, like, this could have been
to stop this, This like penalty is like an unforced error.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
This fumble couldn't like doesn't need to happen. You just
want to see some sort of fight.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Because I feel like we said this on Friday, like
or Thursday, whenever we talked last these guys, and its
like Keithan Allen said, these guys are playing for a contract,
these guys are playing for their future here, and there's
gonna be a lot of tape of like them getting
burned on a long player. There's gonna be plenty of
tape of like penalties that that might hurt them moving forward.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I'll believe. But when I see it, I don't see
a heartbeat coming back at all.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
I mean, the vibe I've been in a lot of
losing locker rooms over the last six years. That yeah,
that that's was probably the worst. Like I said at
the top, it cleared out faster than I've ever seen
a locker room clear out. I don't see the vibe
changing in a couple of days. I don't think they
have any chance in this game, personally, most valuable Bear Michael.
(40:26):
I went with Keenan Allen for the third week in
a row, and he got me a big victory.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
You had DJ Moore Keenan of course, with the big one.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Hundred and what was one hundred and forty one yards
something like that and a touchdown twenty four point six
Fantasy points in half PPR.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
DJ Moore got you ten and a half.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
So I take a key one game lead here, eight
to seven, potentially the clinching the clinching week here for
me in week seventeen, if I can get a victory
in our best of seventeen series and I get to.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Pick first, and I'm really not sure what to do now.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Like we said last week, I'm not touching anybody on
the defensive side.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
That's been a mess.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I don't think you can accurately rely on anybody to
get an interception or to get a sack or anything.
I'm staying on the offensive end because that's where at
least they're putting up some numbers.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Now, my debate is what do I do. I don't know.
It feels a little unfair to.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Pick Keenan Allen four times in a row, but yeah,
well he is playing for something that's true. That's true.
You know, I was leaning toward mixing it up, and
I'm gonna stick with my gut. I'm gonna go with
DJ Moore. Maybe that's a huge mistake. Maybe I'm gonna
regret this when Keenan Allen has a really big game.
(41:50):
I'm going with DJ Moore as my most valuable bear.
I did consider Rome. I see Rick in the comments
says he's going with Rome for a bounce back week.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Michael, where are you at? What are you thinking?
Speaker 4 (42:01):
I'm going with Caleb.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I know Rick was upset with me for not taking
him last week, and obviously I would have won. But
I feel like I'm at a point right now where
I win regardless of when I picked Caleb.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
So I'm just gonna pick him for this.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Thursday because I think we're guarant well, obviously, stuff can
happen but he'll play. I know that he'll play Thursday.
For the most part, I can't guarantee that he'll play
in a couple weeks, just based on what could potentially happen,
and that we like the regular season Penalion Packers.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
I yes, this is your third and final Caleb choice.
I like your decision. I hesitate to think, you know,
the whole last week I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
I don't think they're gonna play Caleb in Week eighteen.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
But but the thing that I've kept coming back to
today is like, it's the Packers and they got this
terrible losing streak. Do you really think the mccaskis are
gonna let them sit Caleb against their chief rival.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
You know, we've heard the stories all over the years of.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
How much of the mccaskeys want to beat the Packers,
especially if if if the Packers have have nothing really
to play for and they rest Jordan Love, like there's
a goal opportunity to end that streak.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I on one hand, I get the arguments for sitting
Caleb at some point down the stretch here, but but
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
That's hard, that's hard.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I don't know if that would be a popular decision,
but I don't know if that really matters in the
locker room a whole lot anymore.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I mean, this this season is over.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
CJ's going with co Comette, who did get a touchdown.
We saw a col Comette sighting yesterday. He's still around,
still doing stuff.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Saw on the team.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Jerald Evert caught a pass yesterday. I had forgotten about
him too.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
Yeah, he's sure that at the beginning of the year
where we were like, oh, too tight on sets, he's
going to be so useful and wow.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
I think he probably wins the award for the guy
we talked the most about who wound up being the
least important to this team is Gerald Everett did absolutely
nothing this season. Was on the field a few times,
maybe has like three or four catches.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
I'd have to check.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, that's a tough one, all right, Michael, who you
picking in this game?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
What's your score?
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Feahawks? I know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
This game is kind of fluky to me because obviously
it's short rest, It's on Thursday. The Seahawks have to
come in, you know, I know they don't have to
fly into the East Coast, but they still have to
fly to Chicago. It's Christmas obviously on Wednesday, and Christmas
Eve on Tuesday, so that plays a factor.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
It's just a fluky week.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
So weird things can happen.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Yeah, So I think I see the Seahawks win the
other sixteen to fourteen. I think it's a close game.
I think just based on I think if this game
was on Sunday, I think the Seahawks win by a
good chunk of you know, points. But because of the
flukiness of this week and the quick turnaround, I think
(45:00):
it's a closer game.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Okay, that's interesting. That's interesting. I like where your head's at.
Speaker 4 (45:06):
It is.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
It is a weird week.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
It's hard to play on Thursday, and you're right, they're
traveling from a long way away. I just don't see
any fight in this Bears team anymore. I'm taking the Seahawks. Literally,
I'm picking my score off the top of my head here.
As I think about this, I don't know. I could
see it being something like twenty seven to sixteen or something.
There might be some ugliness to this game. The weather's
(45:30):
supposed to be fine. But yeah, I think the Seahawks.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Win by a couple of scores. I, yeah, it's just
I don't know what to expect because I think you know,
I don't know if we'll go back on all our
predictions this year, but I only you and I have
really been too accurate about like what the expectations are,
not even just like picking the team, but just like
what could potentially happen. Which isn't a great review of
our podcast. I guess I shouldn't say that out loud,
(45:54):
but like it's just.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Kind of a great review of our prediction abilities, right, But.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Like it is just interesting where it just says like
how unpredictable this team has been this year, right where
it's just like they found so many unique different.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
Ways to lose and this is just where we're at
at this point.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Well that's that's that's the season in a nutshell is
the expectations were through the roof and and the reality
it has not met that. And and we were picking
the Bears a lot early on in the season, and
they had a lot of winnable games and they.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Started four and two.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
It's crazy to think about they haven't won since that
game in London. It's been it's been a pretty wild ride.
We got two more two more games to go before
this this season is mercifully over for for all Bears
fans out there, thanks for joining us live everybody one
more time. Hit the thumbs up if you're with us
here live on YouTube, leave us a review on Spotify
(46:49):
or Apple, and head to shaw local dot com. The
number one best way to support us is to subscribe
at shaw local dot com. We got a bunch of
stories up there from yesterday's game. If you want to
read Michael's stuff from the Lions locker room, head over
the I got some stuff from the Bear's locker room.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Like I said, this is gonna be our only show
this week.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
We will come get back with you guys next week
to preview that Packers game. He's Michael Dwojack. You can
find him on Twitter at m Dwojack ninety four. I'm
Sean Hammond. I'm at Sewan Underscore Hammond. This has been
the Shaw Local Bears Insider podcast.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Thanks for listening, everybody,
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