January 8, 2025 • 51 mins
The 2024 season is in the books and the Bears are embarking on their search for a new head coach. Shaw Local's Sean Hammond and Michal Dwojak react to the list of candidates who the Bears have requested for head coach interviews. Plus, they discuss Ryan Poles' end-of-season news conference.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's Up?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Friends, Welcome into the Shaw Local Bears Insider podcast. I'm
Sean Hammond, Shaw Local Bears beat reporter. He is Michael Dwojack,
joining me as he does every episode Shaw Locals Very
Own and Sports Enterprise reporter Michael.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We we've reached the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
We heard from from Ryan Poles, George McCaskey, Kevin Warren.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yesterday. It was a busy day at Hallis Hall.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
In a lot of ways, though, at least to me
and I wrote about this over at shaw local dot com,
it felt very similar to kind of what we've heard
every single time the Bears do this.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yeah, you're you're, you're you know they was the whole
thing was interested seeing yesterday where they put up Ryan
Poles up there by himself, change out the table full
one day and then they put it put in a
podium just so it's Ryan Poles. So you're very you're
very clear, like all right, this is gonna be one
man show. And then all of a sudden that moves
off to the side room, side room, We're talking to
(00:56):
Kevin Warren and George McCaskey. CASKI off. I was just like, oh, okay,
so we we Bryan Pole's end up leading this but
then as all but then it's all but also like
these guys and like we learned in the press conference
conference to all these other different people and that sort
of stuff. Yeah, more of this is the same. I think.
I feel like you continuously hear the same same things.
(01:18):
At this point, you're just kind of You're just kind
of one is anything going to be differentely be different
with his coaching was before you know, you know what
has this organ earned at this point? You know, George
McKee was kind of asked that question, and I feel
like like he kind of gave an answer and an
answer non answer like well, you know, we believe in
Ryan I and that's the different difference as opposed to
maybe maybe Ryan pin Pace before you know, uh uh
(01:42):
to have got since you know McCaskey took cook over
in two thou eleven, but you know, you as a
as a bail for the best. But after going through
that experience yesterday, I I feel I feel like that
didn't really look uh with uh with uh you know,
as I'm heading in to this coaching search, yep.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Michael, I'm getting some feedback on your on your end.
I think, uh Rick says in the comments that he's
here in an echo. Guys, let me know if you're
hearing that as well, we'll we'll get that straightened out.
But yeah, I'm I'm with you in that, Like I
don't know the The question was asked directly to George McCaskey,
what what's different this time?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You know they've done this.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I forget what the number is, you know, four gms
and six head coaches something like that since George McCaskey
took over in twenty eleven, and.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
He was asked directly, why is this different?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It was it was Mark Potash with The Son Times
who asked that question and and followed up when when
George kind of gave a non answer at first, uh
and he said, Ryan Poles has his experience, he has
Kevin Warren in his corner, and he can lean on
Kevin Warren's experience and and essentially, George McCaskey said, he
believes in those two guys, and that's that's the only
(02:57):
thing that's making this difference. We learned that there's gonna
be this panel of you know, a handful of different
people from within the organization all of them are within
the organization. It's not like last time when or the
last several times when they've had some you know, Bill
Pollian helped out last time. No, this is all, at
least at this point, this is all people within the
(03:18):
Bears organization.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
But you have a panel.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It sounds an awful lot like exactly what they did
last time when they also had a panel of folks
who were interviewing candidates.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
As much as we.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Heard that this is going to be different, this is
going to be you know, Kevin Warren is the guy
in charge now. George mccaskey's still on that panel, so
he is definitely going to have his opinions about these
candidates when they get to that point. To me, it
all sounds like the same thing that we've done before.
The only difference is is George mccaskey's belief in Ryan
(03:52):
and Kevin to get it right. And I don't know
if Bears fans feel that same confidence right now.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
No, and let me know, if this doesn't sound good,
I changed out the microphone, but I would uh yeah,
I would agree. I mean, you're just kind of hoping
at this time, You're hoping, right, You're just kind of
hoping for the best thing. You kind of hope that
you know, they kind of learned from their past mistakes
and they figured something out here, because you know, it's
(04:19):
just kind of hard to kind of, you know, go
through this process all over again. And you know, I
know that a lot of I saw some things going
around yesterday where people were saying, you know, well, the
Packers have done the same thing, like they've talked to
all these different people and you know, different teams. It's
just kind of doing the modern way of doing football
now where you include all these different people. But you know,
at the end of the day, you just, you know,
(04:41):
I think at the end of the day, this needs
to be Ryan's decision, right, And he kept saying that yesterday.
He kept saying that, you know, it's my decision. I'm
gonna work with George and Kevin, but I'm the guy
who's going to be making this decision. But I think
you just need to despite all these people who are
going to be involved in this process, he needs to
be Ryan's decision. Who's going to be this head coach.
(05:02):
And you know, he can listen to so and so hr,
he can listen to whatever, and you know, take their
input and be like, well, so and so has a
good presence and that would be good for press conferences
and that's important stuff, right, Like that shouldn't be the
determined determining factor, but you do want to look into
all those types of things. And obviously, based on how
the past coaching regime kind of went on, maybe HR
(05:22):
should be involved, just based on what the rumors were
in that sort of stuff. But at the end of
the day, it needs to be Ryan's decision, and because
ultimately this is his job, right. If he gets his
head coach right, he gets to stick around, he gets
to continue to build this thing. If he doesn't get
this right, he's done. Right. It's pretty much point playing
simple like that. So, yeah, there's a lot of people
(05:44):
getting involved and it's maybe not ideal, but at the
end of the day, if they do, let Ryan make
this decision, I think that's the only sound way of
running this search or you're just going to keep on
doing the same thing you've been doing over the past
what fourteen years?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, and you do sound better, Michael or more echo.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
The The decision is Ryan Poles, and that's very clear.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I just am.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Concerned about all the people, all the cooks in the kitchen,
all the people who are gonna have their comments, their
thoughts before you get to the finish line, and how
that may or may not sway to GM.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Ultimately, he's got to make this decision.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And that's very clear, you know, I know it was
when when they fired Fluce and they tried it out
Polls and Warren, it was they They sort of made
it clear, but they did it in a roundabout way,
and that was very much the strong message yesterday was
that this is Ryan Poles's decision ultimately.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
As it should be.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
But my concern is just, yeah, all the voices who
are going to be involved throughout the whole process not
I don't know. I don't think it's necessarily a bad
thing to have multiple voices. I just think that it
does feel kind of like you're doing the same thing
over again and expecting different results.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Sure, and I would agree with that, right, Like it
hasn't worked before, that's the biggest thing, right, Like, I
feel like you went through this experience, you know, three
years ago at this point when you're hiring Ryan and Matt,
and that didn't work with Matt obviously, and we're still
trying to figure out whether that worked with Ryan. So
I think that's the biggest thing when it comes to
this organization, where it's just kind of like you're not
(07:18):
seeing maybe maybe it is happening in the background. With
Kevin Warren, obviously, I know you hear about the spending,
like he's giving every opportunity. He's changed obviously the look
of the organization, bringing in a lot of you know,
senior vice presidents and that kind of stuff. But when
it comes to the coaching search, it doesn't seem like
that's being changed. And I feel like that's the you know,
(07:39):
that's probably the most important thing. Is all the other stuff,
All the business side things are important. Obviously, you want
to run a good organization that's going to make money.
But at the end of the day, if your product
isn't winning on the field, what does it really matter
if all the other stuff is happening, right, And that's
kind of the biggest thing, And I understand why you
and other people would be concerned. It's just kind of like, what,
this hasn't worked before. This probably says hasn't worked before,
(08:01):
at least at least at this point. They're not using
a bill Polly, and they're not using any like outside
council other than maybe for background information. But it just
does feel like, well, maybe we this didn't work a
few years ago. Maybe we should include all these different
people in there. Maybe George shouldn't be involved as much.
Obviously you should have a say, it's he's a chairman,
it's his team, right, but maybe he shouldn't be as
(08:23):
involved as he was in the past. Search. So yeah,
I would agree it is concerning, and you would hope
that they would learn and maybe they did. Maybe they're
going to Ryan's going to approach this much differently. I
think there's just a bunch of uncertainty and that's kind
of a I think that's the biggest thing, right, there's
a bunch of uncertainty with how much time is left
on Ryan's you know contract, how much is it? Like
there's just too much uncertainty where you're just kind of like, well,
(08:46):
why all this uncertainty and why are we like guessing
at this point?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, there was you know, there's a couple of different
threads we can pull on some of the things we heard,
and you know, we'll go there since you just mentioned it,
we don't know how long Ryan contract is, and Kevin
Warren was asked about that, and he said something, uh,
something to the effect of, you know, people make a
lot of He started as his answer, you know, Kevin
(09:11):
Warren doesn't give short answers. He started his answer by
saying that, you know, people make a lot of assumptions
about certain things. And I think you know the fact
of course that they're not telling us how long Ryan's
contract is. We have to read between the lines, and
and that can mean one of two things. That can
mean that Ryan isn't going into the last year of
his deal. Uh, that's one thing. Or I mean you
(09:34):
could read that as as like the total opposite.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Uh, and and uh.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
You know you can say that that that's not something
that they're concerned about. That's not essentially that's that's kind
of what they were saying, that that's not going to
affect It seemed like that's what they were saying, that
that's not going to affect the coaching search. George McCaskey
said that no coaching candidate has ever asked him how
long the GM's contract is, and.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That kind of seems weird to me, Like.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Okay, if I've a coaching I want to know how
long my general manager is there for?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Certainly, certainly coaching cannons have asked you.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
About the GM and how much you like him and
how much faith you have in it, Like there's questions,
you know, there's ways of like feeling that out, even if.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
They don't ask directly, Well, how long is his contract?
I don't even know if I believe that, though.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I gotta feel, like, you know, how many coaching cannis
have the interviewed over the last fifteen years, You're telling
me not one of them asked that question.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And I just don't get the secrecy of it all right,
Like you know, how long you know Caleb has a
contract for Jalen Johnson like the money, like I as
a fan, Like I don't care how much money? Like it?
And Ryan Poles was asked about this and he said,
like he was asked about whether he was given an extension,
and he replied with it's a personal matter, and I
don't I've said from the beginning, I don't talk about,
(10:52):
you know, the length of my contract or the money.
And no one is wondering about his money, like I
to be quite frank, like I don't care how much
money he's making I don't like that, doesn't that doesn't
do anything, Like I don't really care about that at all,
But the length of a contract is important and I
don't really know why that's what what is the point
of hiding that? I guess like and it's just again
(11:12):
it goes to the organizational you know, dysfunction for lack
of a better word, of just being like, he's not
answering that. Kevin Warren goes on to soliloquy about how
you know a year is a lifetime and goes into big,
this big introspective conversation about what is a year? What
is time? And you're just like why, And then George
mccaskey's talking about obviously, like you mentioned earlier about no
(11:35):
one's question about that, it's just like, guys, why are
we not making this simple? Just say how much time
he has left? If he has one year, own up
to it and say he has one year because he
has improven this or anything like that, Like we still
have questions about Ryan and this is his opportunity to
prove it. Or they can say, oh, he gave him
a contract you know, last year and now like extension
and now he's on two years as opposed to one year.
(11:56):
Like again, it's just like this uh, this seacresy and
you know, adding more of a spotlight onto yourself when
you don't need to, or it's just kind of like,
you know, if I'm an outside candidate, if I'm let's
say Ben Johnson and I am the top candidate or
Mike Rabel in the in this in this pool, and
I probably have the pick of the litter, and I
can go anywhere from a non biased view. Yes, you
(12:21):
know I have I have Caleb Williams, I've got cap space,
and I've got traff picks. But then this stuff doesn't
leave me encouraged right like heading into this, like I'm
just kind of like, well, why are you guys making
this more difficult? And what is it going to be
when I'm the head coach? Am I going to be
involved in this? And are you going to put me
in bad situations in front of the media and that
sort of stuff? Are you going to make me do
(12:41):
an exit in or a media interview and then fire
me like half an hour later? Like all this stuff
that just kind of snowballs with this organization. It just
kind of makes you feel like if you're like an
unbiased You're not bear span would you apply for this job?
Like would you feel comfortable with what you're hearing outside
when you're hearing all the press conferences like it just
(13:02):
continuously For some reason, they just make it harder on
themselves when it's like, just make it easy. Answer the
questions to the best that you can. No one is
asking for the money or anything like that, but just
ask the easy answer the easy questions and just make
it pretty easy so that people don't have to, you know,
continue to question you and what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And you know what Kevin Warren could have said, you know,
we are committed to Ryan Poles for the long haul,
for the future. Sure, it's as simple as that, rather
than going on a long tangent about a year is
a long time that that makes me think that he does.
You know, you can read between the lines and come
to whatever conclusion you want, Like you can find quotes
(13:42):
that make you think, oh, he's he's under contract for
two three more years, or you can find quotes that
make you think the exact opposite, like a year is
a long time. It's it's just such a weird way.
If I was a candidate interviewing for this job. My
number one concern would be would be working with Kevin Warren, Like,
is that a person that you want to Is that
(14:02):
who you want your boss to be? I mean, I
feel like the stuff we're here and we didn't learn
anything new about the stadium, only that they have built
great momentum toward getting their stadium done in the city
of Chicago. That was the exact quote. They've built. Forget well,
maybe that wasn't the exact quote. He used the word momentum.
I forget what he said.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
What did he say, Michael, Great, They've been building up
to it for a couple of years. There's been political momentum,
which I don't know what political momentum means. I don't
think there is. I don't think that thing exists.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Has changed in three years, right, Nothing?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Well, I mean their focus has changed, but nothing has
gotten done, whether it's Arlington, whether it's whether it's Chicago.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Well, especially in the city of Chicago.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I know the tax stuff was in the news a
couple of months ago in Arlington, but they're not building
the stadium yet, you know, and he keeps saying they're
going to start building a stadium by the end of
twenty twenty five calendar year, and the clock's ticking.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
We're here now, it's twenty twenty five, and it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
You know, we can do a whole podcast about the stadium,
and I know we're focusing on the coaches and that
kind of stuff, But I think that's another thing, right,
Like I feel like I keep hearing, like I think
from the outside view, you have these national reporters who
are trying they're not trying to sell the Bear's job,
but they're just trying to. You know, They're saying, like,
this is an attractive job. You have Caleb, you have
cap space, you have draft capital. And every single time
(15:22):
I feel like they say and they're building a new stadium,
it's like are they like where where is the stadium happening?
The governor and state legislators are like, we're not giving
you any money. There's no shot this is going to happen.
You're likely to face a lawsuit from far, you know,
on the Lakefront. And then you keep saying that Michael
Reice is bad. Meanwhile Arlington Heights is just standing there
waiting for you. Like again, it's another element of this organization.
(15:45):
Where you're just kind of like, you brought Kevin Warren
to take care of this job and he hasn't done that,
And now he's added coaching search which someone asked him,
I forget whether it was John Greenberg of The Athletic
or someone else asked them, is that going to be
hard to balance? And he's like, no, Like you can
do it all. It's like you haven't been able to
do the first part, so what makes you encourage that
you're going to do the second part? So again, it
(16:06):
just goes into all of this where you're just kind
of like, man, if I am a first year coach,
if I am Mike Frable trying to get back into it,
taking my second chance, taking Brian Flores trying to get
my second chance, probably your last chance if it doesn't work.
Am I going to the Bears and staking my whole
livelihood and my career on this? Like it's just kind
of like this none of this sounds good right now
(16:27):
other than the bright shiny object of Caleb Williams and
the potential of being like I can ignore all that,
I can whatever, I can just live with that I
have Caleb Williams, I have my future quarterback. I can
put them in the best spot to succeed, and I'm
going to overcome all of that. I think that's just
pretty much how you have to head into it if
you're a coach, and obviously it's one of thirty two jobs,
(16:49):
and it's a charter franchise. All the history we all
love to hear. There are good things about it, but
it's just like moments like Tuesday, you're just kind of like, man,
stop getting in your own way and just let the
job steak for itself for once.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
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can come join us. You can see our lovely faces
and our posters and our bookshelves in the background. You
can join the conversation here in the comments. I want
to hit a comment, Michael, you were kind of going
(17:30):
down this road already and I do want to touch
on some of it. We got like a dozen candidates
who they're interviewing. I do want to touch on a
few of those that we know of, at least so far.
But CJ's got a comment here. He says, Jags or Bears,
which is more attractive? And I'm gonna I'm gonna open
it up more and say, Michael, if you're a head
coaching candidate, you're looking at these all six jobs open
(17:52):
right now. We have the Bears, we have the Jags,
who CJ mentioned there, We have who else? Do we
have the Saints, the Jets, the Patriots, and the Raiders.
Which which are the most Maybe the Cowboys, although the
reporting is that that the Cowboys are not letting the
Bears interview Mike McCarthy. But also he's not under contract yet,
(18:16):
so they haven't. They haven't until January fourteenth to figure
that out down in Dallas.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Which what are the most attractive jobs in your eyes?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I think it's probably you know, I I'm conflicted on
how you approach it. I think in the grand scheme
of things, I think it is the Bears, and I
obviously you know the Titans, don't the Titan I think
there's a lot of things. If you're a candidate, do
you want to bring your own GM? Obviously that takes
away the Bears because Ryan Pols isn't going anywhere. The
(18:47):
Titans fired their coach, are there, they're their GM the
general I.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Think they're the only team right now that they're hiring
a GM.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
But is keeping the coach the Titans?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah? Right? And and but you did hear shot Con,
which is kind of funny yesterday in his press conference
say next to his GM when he was asked, you know,
if a coach is going to say, hey, I'm wanting
to bring my own GM, is that going to be
a deal breaker? And shot Con said, no, that's not
going to be a deal breaker, right next to his GM.
So I think with that context, I think, if you know,
(19:26):
I think you would say that the Bears is probably
the top choice, mostly because Caleb Williams is still on
a rookie contract and you have the you know, other
stuff that we talked about. I think Trevor Lawrence is
obviously have a lot does have a lot of untapped potential,
and that is a really talented roster that kind of
underwhelmed this year. And I think you could do a
(19:46):
lot with that, and obviously, shot CON's going to spend money,
He's going to do a lot of resources to let
you succeed. But I think the thing with Trevor Lawrence
is you paid him right, like you gave him a
big contract, and eventually, like that's going to come back
to bite you, and that obviously is going to hurt
you with your roster construction, and that's going to hurt
also with like he's got experience. He's three or four
(20:09):
years into this thing, where you've got a one year
Caleb Williams thing where he kind of, yeah, he went
through some growing paints, he's gone through the rookie season,
and whoever comes in he's going to have to go
through some growing paints as well in the second year.
But I think you have more of a runway with
Caleb in his second, third, and fourth year than you
do with Trevor Lawrence at this point. So I think
(20:29):
I talked myself into saying that the Bears job is
the better job. I think that the Jags job is
pretty good. The Raider's job is kind of interesting, just
based on seems like Tom Brady's going to be really interested.
I that's a job. Yeah, and the Patriots' job is
obviously good with Drake May. There a lot of draft
capital and a lot of cap space. But I would
(20:49):
probably lean toward the Bears, but it's not a very
heavy lean.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, here's my thoughts on this.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I I, if I'm a head coaching candidate, I have
serious concerns about you, Jacksonville, because of the dynamic with
the head coach and the GM.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I mean, Trent balk.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I don't know, man, I can't believe that they kept him.
It's it's kind of crazy that this guy has has
gotten two GM jobs because his boss was fired and
he got promoted and and they had the chance to
do a clean sweep and they didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
It's like this guy won't go away, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And I have serious concerns about about what's just the
number of coaches they've they've gone through the past couple
of years, the whole Urban Meyer thing, all that stuff.
I have concerns about just obviously they're not afraid to
spend money. They're building their their revamping their stadium, they
got a brand new facility.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
They're okay with with all that, and they want to win.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I just I have serious concerns about if that's the
ownership group that I want to work for, UH and
the GM that I want to work for. Like, I
would be shocked if like a Ben Johnson wants to
to go to Jacksonville. I don't see that happening, you know,
New Orleans. I would not want to coach there. They're
stuck with Derek Carr. They're in cap hell as they
(22:04):
have but they've been kicking the can down the road
for like ten years, UH and they really just need
to do a full on rebuild and blow the thing up,
but they won't admit that. And I really don't want
to be the coach who's there when when that happens,
and when when they come to the realization that that's
the only way to fix this is to just like
tear it down for a year or two and start over.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I don't want to coach there.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
On top of that, Yeah, Derek Carr is under contract
for like a couple more seasons, and that's that's gonna
be a tough contract to get out of. I think
the Raiders thing is kind of interesting with the Tom
Brady with with Tom Brady being being in ownerships well
being part of ownership and and obviously he has a
it seems like he has quite a sway on what
(22:50):
they decide to do. Right, It's kind of like a
blank canvas. You you don't have a quarterback, you have
some some good draft capital, you have a relatively high pick.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
There.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Like, I feel like that's an opportunity to to sort
of start with a blank slate, so to speak, And
to me, that's attractive in that way. But yeah, like,
obviously Caleb Williams is is Caleb Williams and Trevor Lawrence
are the best quarterbacks of these teams that that don't
have head coaches. And while I you know, I I
do love you know, I would I if I was
(23:23):
a head coach in Canada, I would love the opportunity
to work with Trevor Lawrence, I have bigger concerns about
that organization.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
At the same time.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I mean, you could say the same thing about about
the mccaskey's and the Bears.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
You know, I was just just saying, I don't know
if I would want to work with Kevin Warren, But.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I mean I feel like I just feel like having
the good young quarterback is is such a good place
to start and yes, it's a tough division.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I get that, but but these divisions changed so quickly.
Two years ago we were saying the NFC North was
the worst division in football, maybe three years ago.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
These things change really really quickly in the NFL, and
so I feel like that's less of an issue, honestly.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And I think looking at the NFC North, like Detroit
has obviously had a lot of great success, but most likely, Ben,
you're losing both your corodinators. And obviously Dan Campbell's a
great coach and he's been able to you know, he
found Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn right like he found
them put him on the staff, But you're expecting them
to probably go through some regression as well, just based
(24:29):
on having a tougher schedule, losing both corodinators, and eventually
you're gonna have to pay and you know, the way
the NFL works at salary cap is going to come
into a factor and you're gonna lose some guys obviously,
because you got some guys want to get paid eventually.
But yeah, I would agree, I wouldn't be worried about that.
So I guess based on this conversation you obviously talked
(24:50):
about you know, the young quarterback. Does that mean that
New England is more interesting than the Jags just based
on Drake May obviously his potential? Would he kind of
showed you this year a lot of cap space, a
lot of draft capital. Does it pretty much become a
Bears versus Patriots, you know for the top job.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I actually do think that the Patriots is a really
good job because they have a quarterback and they want
to win. Obviously that team was really bad this year. Yeah,
I think maybe with a better head coach they could
have won a couple more games, But I don't think
that they were like, obviously a very good team. But
is that Mike Rabel's job to lose? Like, is this
(25:29):
really is this really an open an open head coaching spot,
Like if it is, if they're taking this seriously, and
like if they're open to Ben Johnson versus Mike Rabel
versus any other candidate, then yeah, I do think it
is a really good job.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I'm really interested because this kind of dictates how this
whole coaching carousel is going to go, right, Like, yeah,
I think, yes, he's Mike Rabel's reported like to be
the favorite in New England. But does Tom Brady have
a sway with this former teammate and he's And is
that kind of the reason why the Raiders decided to
do what they do where they kind of like Brady's
(26:04):
kind of like listen, like I can convince Rabel to
come here and we can build something really good. I'll
give them like the trust, I'll let them build the
whole thing. And does that kind of impact because I think,
you know, if you're a Bears fan, you're probably looking
at Johnson and Rabel as your top two, right like when.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
You're tier number one is those two guys.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
But I do think when you're looking at Rabel's likely
landing spots, it is probably the Patriots or the Raiders,
and then you got the Bears like a little distant third.
So I am interested to see, you know, how that
kind of shakes out, because if New England doesn't get Rabel,
are they going all in on Johnson or vice versa.
If the Raiders don't do that, you know, are they
(26:46):
going in on that? And I think the biggest thing
is obviously you've got Caleb to sell and the Raiders
don't have a quarterback to sell. And I forget what
draft pick they have, but I think it's like in
the mid mid first number six. Yeah, okay, so like
you based on the quarterback talent you're getting in this draft.
I don't know if you're going to be able to
(27:06):
pick your franchise quarterback by any means, but yeah, I
think that'll be interesting, just based on how where Vrabel
goes really impacts how the rest of this carousel goes.
And obviously it's up to Ben Johnson where he wants
to go, but a few moves here or there can
really dictate, you know, how this old whole thing unfolds
and where the Bears are kind of left with at
(27:26):
the end of the month.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Here Ben Johnson and Sam Darnold with the Raiders done
in Las Vegas, let's make it happen. I think I
think that'd be spicy. They don't have any receivers down there.
They got Brock powers. But yeah, I do like the
Patriots job. If it's really open and we didn't touch
on the Jets.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I don't know where the Jets do. I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I don't think we need to touch on the Jets.
I don't know what the Jets are doing. Yeah, that
that list of interview candidates was all pretty much all
guys who have done the job. I will say this,
like there's also different level.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Of candidates like Ben Johnson can be picky. He is
like so like he.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Is in such a favorable position. That offense was amazing
again this year. Obviously, you like with all coordinators, like at.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Some point, you know, the.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Talent falls apart, you have a year where guys are injured, whatever,
Like he's not going to be in this position forever,
but he's in a really really good spot right now
where he can be choosy. He if he doesn't want
to coach the Jags, he doesn't have to interview down there,
whereas some other candidates, like a name that came out
this week that's super interesting, Matt Nagy, who seems like
(28:37):
he really wants to be a head coach again. I
feel like he's going to wind up being the coach
of a team like the Jets or the Saints or
the Jags, And I.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Don't know how that will go. But I just feel
like he's the type of.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Candidate who who really if he really values being a
head coach over honestly, I think he should stay where
he is for as long as possible, because he can
just keep winning Super Bowls with Patrick Mahomes. But if
he wants to be a head coach, he's going to
wind up somewhere like that.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
If I'm Naggie, I would wait right like, I feel
like you have like a pretty you know. Obviously, Bears
fans don't love Naggie, and obviously for various different reasons.
But he did make the playoffs twice. He was a
Coach of the Year and quite honestly, like thirty four
and thirty one record, yeah, and he actually was, and
his quarterback was Mitch Trubisky, right like. And then obviously
(29:27):
he screwed the pooch on, you know, dealing with Justin
Fields his rookie season, throwing him out with the Browns unprepared, unprotected.
But if you're an outside team and you're looking at
Naggie's resume, you're like, I've won a lot of you know,
Super Bowls with Patrick Mahomes, I've learned a lot from
Andy Reid, I learned from my experiences in Chicago, which
(29:48):
I was now really put in a good position to
succeed in Chicago, and still I won Coach of the
Year and took that team to the playoffs twice. Like,
it's not terrible. It's not a terrible resume. If you're
an outside team, look looking at Naggy and you're kind
of like, well, maybe he learned a lot. Maybe if
we put a relatively like an average quarterback with them,
he can succeed. But this, this podcast is in the
(30:10):
Matt Naggy job whatever, a recruitment offer or anything like that.
But yeah, it is just interesting just kind of see
how different teams are approaching it. And for Ben Johnson,
who have we confirmed so far, it's pretty much been
the Bears. He is talking to the Patriots right the Jaguars,
the Jaguars requested him. I don't know if I saw him.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
The report was that the Jaguars requested him, and then
when the Jaguars, I believe the Jets did. The Jaguars
put out a list of requests. I don't think he
was on there. I thought, am I thinking of the Jets?
I might be thinking of the Jets?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
The Jets are not requesting, which is just maybe they
just kind of know that he's not coming here. We're
not wasting our time kind of deal.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That is so funny that is so funny that the
Jets are not requesting Ben Johnson, and maybe maybe maybe
Ben said nah, I'm good, which I if I was
him I would do. But yeah, yeah, you know what,
let's dive into some of these some of these names
that the Bears have requested. We do know this from
some of the reporting from the NFL Network and from ESPN.
(31:16):
Interviews could start as early as yesterday Tuesday for coaches
who played on Saturday during week eighteen, and then a
bunch of them are going to start today. There's a
bunch of different rules. Head to show Local dot com.
We have a story on all the rules if you're
interested in that. Some candidates can interview this week, some
(31:37):
will have to wait till till next week. These are
all virtual interviews at this point for coaches who are
still employed by other teams.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm just gonna go.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Down the list. These are alphabetical by last name. I'm
going to read off maybe a handful and see what
sparks our interests here. Joe Brady, the Bills offensive coordinator,
Pete Carroll, Brian Flores, Aaron Glenn, Ben Johnson.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
What stands out to you? Obviously?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Ben Jonson is a guy who's been talked about a lot. Michael,
have your feelings changed or or your thought process changed
at all in these last couple of days with regards
to him.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
No, If I'm the Bears, it's Ben Johnson our bust,
and I could be convinced Mike Rabel. I think, I
think if Mike Rabel has a really good plan for uh,
for Caleb Williams, he has a good offensive coordinator that
he's guaranteed to bring in, that he has a lot
of trust in and can bring in. I I've heard
I think it's Albert Career. I forget who had said
who was it said that he would bring Tommy Reese
(32:32):
with him, maybe from the Browns and that kind of stuff,
which I don't know how excited The Bears obviously had
a lot of Notre Dame front fans on the podcast,
I'm sure, but based on his track the Alabama Notre Dame.
But yeah, it's Ben Johnson for me, I think, you know,
it's kind of interesting because I feel like the Bears
are getting some flag from fans being like, why are
(32:53):
we talking to so many people like you? And he
talked about having a month to kind of prepare, but
I'm kind of the mindset where you can't talk to
these people in person until the twentieth if I remember
the data correctly after the divisional round. Yep, yeah, you can't.
You can't. So you're not going to be able to
hire anyone until at least like what the twenty second,
(33:14):
the twenty third maybe or whatever. If everything goes perfectly right,
everyone's schedules aligne right. So I don't think there's anything
wrong in talking to a Pete Carroll to talking to
to to a Cafka obviously a local guy Northwestern read
on that kind of stuff. I think you need to
learn as much as you can about your team. I
think you need to because when you're going through this
(33:35):
interview process, a lot of guys are going to be like, well,
Caleb was doing this, and I see what he's kind
of messing up with this promotion. I would fix up
his plugwork, I would fix up his timing, I would
fix up whatever or with DJ Moore. You know, I'm
just throwing on names out there just based on what
people because when you're going for a job, you're trying
to show off that you know what you're talking about,
and you're trying to just like create your plan. So
(33:58):
if you're Brian Poles and you're the mcare maybe you're like, well,
I never thought of it that way, or I didn't
look at it that way or anything like that. So
there's a lot of good information you can gain from
these interviews, and honestly, even just down the road where
maybe your OC gets hired by someone else, you're like,
I like that person when I talked to them a
couple of years ago. Let's go after them again after
(34:19):
they gained some experience, right, So I think there's a
lot to learn, and that's I'm not really concerned about
the wide range of people that you're going to be
talking to or anything like that. So that's why I'm
not really that concerned. Like sure, talk to Kafka, talked
to Pete Carroll, talked to Shaw. Shaw was a very
random one that I don't think we really expected, or
(34:40):
the OC from Arizona. But at the end of the day,
for me, I think it's just Brandon Johnson and you're
just trying or Brandon Johnson, geez Ben Johnson, and you're
trying to get as much information about what's going wrong
with your team and how you can fix.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
It, Brandon Johnson, the uh the are you?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Are you referencing the Denver Broncos receiver or the Chicago mayor.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I don't know who was. Probably the mayor would make
more sense just based on the stadium negotiations. But yeah,
that was that was a slip of the tongue.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I look, if you're gonna interview Mike McCarthy, or try
to interview Mike McCarthy, you should be interviewing Pete Carroll
Like that's just yeah, I'm totally okay with that. I've
I've been saying Pete Carroll needed to be interviewed for
weeks like that's that should be a name that's on
your list if you're looking for somebody who can who
can come in and lead your organization. That's the type
(35:31):
of you know, you can you can criticize, you know,
his offenses, defense, all that stuff, but he is a
leader type guy.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
And so yes, you should be interviewing guys like that.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And Kevin Warren said like he wants to go into
this process with no preconceived notions about any of these candidates.
So yeah, if you're gonna do that, you know, a
wide net is okay. You Michael, you touch on a
couple of these. I'll read the rest of the list here.
Mike Kafka, the Giants offensive coordinator.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
He's a Chicago guy.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Uh and I mean okay, Ryan Pols likes to bring
in Chicago guys for his team. I don't know if
he would do that for his head coach. I don't
think that's a strong enough reason to do that. But
don't dismiss that, like that's been something that's that's been
important to him.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Bringing TJ.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Edwards here, you know, Jack Sanborn, some other guys who
are from the Chicago area, like that has has been
something of notes in the past, and so I'll just
throw that out there. Mike McCarthy, who it sounds like
is not going to be allowed to interview, or at
least not until he hits free agency. Todd Monkin, the
Ravens offensive coordinator. Drew Petsing, the Cardinals offensive coordinator. David Shaw,
(36:39):
the former Stanford coach. That one definitely feels like it's
out of left field, although I mean he is he
is very respected within, you know, within the coaching realm
Arthur Smith.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
The Steelers OC.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Gosh, I hope that doesn't happen for our sake, Mike
Rabel and Anthony Weaver is the Dolphins defensive coordinator.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, Arthur Smith, you know he was just clowning, clowning.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
You think that flu press conferences were bad, Arthur Smith,
ones would be like in the the opposite direction of bad.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah. I obviously you don't worry about the press conferences.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
That's that's not important. That's that is very very relevant
to our jobs.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
But yeah, but still, like you don't want to consistently
have people like with Maddy Eberflus for Mad Nag. You
don't want to have sound bites that consistently or like
make the Bears sound dopey or anything like that. Like,
there is some value to it obviously, Like at the
end of the day, if you're winning games, like Bill
Belichick was winning games and he was terrible at press conferences, Okay,
who cares. Like it's funny when you're winning. It's cute
(37:42):
when you're winning, But there is some value to it.
But yeah, I think that list is interesting. You didn't
say Liam Cohen right from the Buccaneers. I don't think
they have reached out to.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I have that and I have not seen that.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
That's interesing wrong. That's an interesting tidbit where I was
kind of heading into this thing being like, obviously it's
Johnson and Rabel, I want to talk to Joe Brady.
I thought Liam Cohen would be in there obviously with
maybe with the and the way, I mean, maybe even
if they can't talk to him this week, I think
you'd be able to at least put in a request.
(38:17):
So that one was interesting. Just haven't been able to
see him kind of get in there. Maybe they're not
as interested in what Tampa Bay's doing with their offense,
But Joe Brady was He's been requested, right, So I
think cj he was requested and I would talk to him,
But Joe Brady one was kind of interesting to me.
If you know, if Ben Jonson, if Mike Rabels say
(38:41):
no to you, or they go somewhere else or whatever,
the fit isn't right. Joe Brady was at the top
of my, you know, second tier list, and I'd be
interested to talk to him and just kind of see
what his perspective is because I know a lot of
people give him a hard time. He's like, well, anyone
can do it. With Josh Allen but you saw that
offense before you know, he took over, that was not
a great offense, and he kind of reinvigorated Josh Allen.
(39:04):
So I'd be really interested in talking to Joe Brady
just with what he's been able to do there.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, it's interesting to talk about. Yeah, who is at
the top of tier two? If Ben Johnson and Mike
Frabel are, you're a tier one. You know, which of
these coaches is up there? You know, I think you
could throw Todd Monkin up there. He's done a really
nice job with the Ravens. Also with a quarterback who
likes to to improvise, you know, in Lamar Jackson, maybe
that could be a fit there.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Obviously, there's with any of these coordinators.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
There's a bit of a leap of faith, like you
don't know how they are as a leader of the team.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
You know, it's one thing to scheme up for your.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Your offense, your defense, but it's another thing to lead
the team.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
There's some names that that don't really excite me all
that much. I mean, I don't know much about Anthony Weaver,
the Miami Dolphins defensive coordinator. I honestly, I don't know
much about Drew Petsing the Cardinals offensive coordinator, other than like,
the Cardinals have been a decent offense the last few years,
or at least since that that coaching change happened and
Kyler got back healthy. Brian Flores is a guy who
(40:06):
was like another guy who I feel like, if you're
interviewing guys like you should have him on your list.
And it's absolutely valuable to like, he's a guy that
players will play hard for, you know, just reading some
of the stuff about the Vikings defense, Like those guys
on the other side they love playing for him. Yeah,
And to go back to Mike Kafka too. I know
(40:26):
people read Giants offensive coordinator and think, why on earth
would we interview the Giants offensive coordinator. But remember he's
actually the reason why Matt Naggie has a job because
he was the Chiefs quarterback coach before getting the OC
job in New York and he left and Matt Naggie
came back to be the Chiefs quarterback coach a couple
of years ago. He was with the Chiefs for that
(40:50):
whole that whole time. You know, he worked his way
up from a quality control coach to get a job
on the staff and while that whole time, while the
Chiefs were sort of that up and coming team and
Patrick Mahomes was doing those things he did in twenty eighteen,
twenty nineteen, twenty twenty and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
So that's not crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I know, you read Giants offensive coordinator and you think,
oh god, what are we doing.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I don't think that's that crazy.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
And I think the thing with the Giants is, you know,
the Giants, I think I think I'm correct here. I
think Gable is the one who's still calling the offense.
So obviously he's he's so Capkaz just kind of he's
doing stuff obviously, but like he's not running, doing the
play calling or anything like that. And when you look
at the Giants offense, I feel like the Giants offense
(41:35):
struggles are more of the pieces than the plays, right,
Like there's no like, there's no quarterback. Obviously, you got Neighbors.
He's a fantastic, you know, threat and obviously a fantastic rookie,
but what else do you really have on that offense
That kind of you would be like, well, I want
to see great numbers. It's like the quarterback's not there
and the Laie Neighbors can't do it all by himself,
(41:57):
So what are you kind of expecting? So I would
look I would look at that interview with some nuance
and kind of be like, well, the Giants aren't great.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
But what quarterback did they have?
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Right? Like, what do you really have there that you're
kind of expecting greatness?
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
What quarterback did they have? Who besides mylikue neighbors? Who
was making plays for your offense? And there's there was
really nobody.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
That's such an interesting situation, uh, In.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Terms of the Giants, you know, the team that didn't
fire their head coach and GM, it's like those guys
were brought here to to usher in the post Daniel
Jones era, and then they had one good year and
then they decided to sign Daniel Jones to that big contract,
and I mean it almost cost them and it still
might cost them their jobs next year.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
You know, It's that's a really tough situation.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I don't envy. I don't envy.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
You know, the mayor is having to make that decision
because on one hand, it's like the easy thing to do,
I guess would have been to fire them. Really like,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
That. Yeah, how they haven't drafted a quarterback. They haven't
brought in their own quarterback.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I mean other than like you know, the guys further
down the roster, they haven't brought in their own starting quarterback.
I agree with the decision to give them another year
because of that.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
That's just me personally, But I'm going on a tangent.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, I mean the Giants are interesting. I mean Joe
Shane and his Saquon Barkley comment on Hard Knocks is
the reason why that offseason Hard Knocks is never going
to happen. Ever. Again, obviously that didn't go the way
the Giants expected it too, But I guess I know
we have a few minutes left here, Sean. I was
just kind of curious they're going to go through this
(43:42):
whole process. We're not going to know who the coach
is probably for another couple of weeks, three weeks, I
guess it depends on how long teams are in the
playoffs or whatever. Are you pretty much in the state
of the Bears need to get their proven, proven coach,
like when they need to get the headliners, they need
to get either like Ben Johnson and I were able
for you to be convinced that this is going to work,
(44:03):
or are you open to a name out of left
field because you know, a few years ago, I don't
know how many people were talking about Kevin O'Connell and
obviously look how great it turns out and Mad Lafleur.
I know has Head had some success you know before,
but I feel like he was kind of like a
mid tier Like he wasn't like the face I don't
if I remember correctly, Like it was kind of like
people knew about him, but they weren't like, ah, that's
(44:23):
going to be a home run higher. So are you
of the mindset of this search needs to end with
the home run higher or it's a failure, or are
you open to if the Cardinals oc ends up being
Kevin O'Connell no one knows about him yet or anything
like that.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
I think I, as somebody who's covered this team for
you know, the last five six years, like I'm open
to anything. I am also highly skeptical that anything's going
to work. You know, I think both those things are true.
So I'm I'm open to them doing whatever they think
is best for this team. Uh, it would not It
(45:03):
would not surprise me. If if the name at the
end of all this is not who we think it's
gonna be. We've seen them do that before. I think
Fluse was kind of in that. I mean, I know
he was talking about then, but I I don't know
how seriously people thought they were going to hire him, Uh,
you know, early on in that process. And obviously you
could say the same thing with with Mark Trustman and
(45:25):
some of the previous hires. I'm open to anything, though,
like I'm open to being to being surprised.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
And that's okay if they get it right. They just
have to get it right.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
And I'm not saying that that's obviously that's easier said
than done. That's easy for me to say, sitting on
the sidelines, not being in these decisions. I would prefer,
you know, the more I've thought about this, it's like
I would prefer somebody who's done the job and and
is is maybe uh, you know, the type of motivator
(45:58):
that you want. That's maybe a Mike Rabel, may be
a Pete Carroll, somebody who's been in that role, who's
who's been in that job before.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Because at the end of.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
The day, like every single coordinator on this list, it's
something of a leap of faith.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Yeah, and it is definitely a leap of faith. And
I've kind.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Of Brian Flores. I'll throw his name out there.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Too, Yeah, sure, Yeah, he's got that experience. Yeah, it's
just interesting and it kind of goes back to the
whole thing that we kind of talked about at the
beginning is like how much how much confidence do you
have if this is going to go the right way?
So that's kind of why I'm kind of I'm kinda
of the mindset of go for your go, go with
what is in front of the obvious choice in front
(46:38):
of you. Where I think the barriers have gotten lucky
the last couple of seasons here where yes they traded
with Carolina for the number one pick, but Carolina had
to earn that number one pick last year to be
the worst team. And maybe Ryan Pol's new from the
beginning that that roster is going to be bad, that's
going to be dysfunctional. I'm choosing that team and they're
gonna end up with the number one pick, and I'll
get Caleb Williams if so, maybe we need to be
(47:00):
giving him more credit than we've been doing. But I
think the Bears had an obvious choice in taking Caleb
Williams last offseason, and I feel like they have an
obvious choice here. Either do whatever you can to get
Ben Johnson, do whatever you can to get Mike Frabel,
get those headliners in there, and just and if it
doesn't work at the end of the day, okay, then
it doesn't work. Because I don't think anyone in a
(47:22):
few years that Ben Johnson ends up flailing, if he
doesn't end up working, is going to give you a
hard time for going for him. He's been the offensive
he's been the offensive coordinator for the best offense over
the past three seasons. He's had a lot of success.
That is a process where I think you're kind of
like it just didn't work out. And I understand a
lot of Bears fans are worried about the Naggy effect,
(47:44):
but I feel like he's much more proven than Naggy
was at this point. Right. I think you obviously have
a lot of success, and obviously he's got a lot
of great playmakers. He's not gonna have that offensive line
in Detroit that he would have with the Bears. But
for me, it's just kind of like it's right there,
make it happen. Do everything you can to convince these
people that you need to be the place that they
(48:06):
want to go to. And that's for me one a
hire Ben Johnson and that doesn't work, get Mike Brabel
and then go from there. And if it doesn't work out,
then sometimes it just doesn't work out. About for me,
it's pretty simple that you just go for the obvious
choice and you just let it happen.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
That's a really good point, Michael, Like, it's not necessarily
apples to apples to compare Matt Naggie in twenty eighteen
to Ben Johnson right now, because you're right, like Andy
Reid was running that offense. Andy Reid was in charge
of that thing a lot more than Matt Naggie was.
I know Naggie was calling plays down the stretch there.
(48:45):
He called the plays in the playoffs, and they famously
admitted that it was his fault they didn't run the
ball in the playoff game when the Data Bears hired him.
But that's neither here nor there. Ben Johnson has been
the in charge of that offense. He has been the
one running that thing. We all know Dan Campbell is
(49:06):
is obviously a great like leader, a great vibes guy,
but he he isn't in charge of the offense in
the same way that Andy Reid has been. Even you
could even say that for Matt Naggy now and that's
maybe a knock against him as a candidate for a
head coach. Yeah, that's that. That's a really good point.
I mean, we'll see how this all plays out. I
obviously Ben Johnson is going to be a really popular candidate,
(49:29):
but it seems like there's interest there at least to
go through the interview process with the Bears and see
where that takes him.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Maybe that's where this thing is heading.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Uh Vrabel is so interesting, Like, we'll see what happens
in New England. But I do think like he is
a guy who who would you know, Rabel, tough, defensive
guy like I think Chicago would like him. I think
he would they would love He would be the exact
type of person, Yeah, you want for this job, whether
whether he's right x's and o's or whatever. Like, he
is the type of person and leader that you would
(50:00):
want if you're the city of Chicago.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Yeah he is he If it is Rabel that's going
to be your stereotypical Chicago coach. He's going to fit
that mindset so well, and and I think that's why
a lot of people are excited about the potential of
having him, right. I think that's why people like you.
Hear about how much people you know, just go around
him and love him and that kind of stuff. So
(50:23):
that would be really fun as well. But yeah, I
think it all comes down to, like Russ kind of
mentions in his comment, are we sure anyone wants the job?
That's the biggest thing, right, Like, are we sure that
people are going to want this job? I feel like
we kind of made the case that people do, right,
I think so, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure
what we ended up doing here in the first you know,
what we did for fifteen minutes, and whether we did
(50:44):
a good selling job for them. But I think it's
an attractive job and if you're Ben Jonson, if you're
Mike Rabel, if you're at any other candidate, and I
think it's one of the top jobs to go after,
and it'll be interesting to see what happens here in
the next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah, thanks everybody for joining us once again. Hit the
thumbs up. If you're with us here on YouTube, that
is a great way to support the show. We would
really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
If you're listening after the fact on Spotify or on Apple,
please leave us a review. Everybody had to shaw local
dot com to read all of our stuff, and please
consider subscribing. That's the number one best way to support
us is to head to shaw local dot com and subscribe.
He's Michael Dwojack. You can find him on Twitter at
m Dwojack ninety four. I am Sean Hammon. You can
find me at Sean Underscore Hammond. We will let you
(51:29):
know when we're going live. We are gonna keep it
up here during the off season. Our schedule might be
a little bit more sporadic, but we definitely want to
meet with you at least once a week here during
this coaching search. So we will let you know when
we're gonna go live next time and keep an eye
out for that. This has been the Shaw Local Bears
Insider podcast. Thanks for joining us, everybody, Thanks for listening,
(51:49):
and have a great rest of your week.
What's Up?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Friends, Welcome into the Shaw Local Bears Insider podcast. I'm
Sean Hammond, Shaw Local Bears beat reporter. He is Michael Dwojack,
joining me as he does every episode Shaw Locals Very
Own and Sports Enterprise reporter Michael.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We we've reached the end of the year.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
We heard from from Ryan Poles, George McCaskey, Kevin Warren.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yesterday. It was a busy day at Hallis Hall.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
In a lot of ways, though, at least to me
and I wrote about this over at shaw local dot com,
it felt very similar to kind of what we've heard
every single time the Bears do this.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Yeah, you're you're, you're you know they was the whole
thing was interested seeing yesterday where they put up Ryan
Poles up there by himself, change out the table full
one day and then they put it put in a
podium just so it's Ryan Poles. So you're very you're
very clear, like all right, this is gonna be one
man show. And then all of a sudden that moves
off to the side room, side room, We're talking to
(00:56):
Kevin Warren and George McCaskey. CASKI off. I was just like, oh, okay,
so we we Bryan Pole's end up leading this but
then as all but then it's all but also like
these guys and like we learned in the press conference
conference to all these other different people and that sort
of stuff. Yeah, more of this is the same. I think.
I feel like you continuously hear the same same things.
(01:18):
At this point, you're just kind of You're just kind
of one is anything going to be differentely be different
with his coaching was before you know, you know what
has this organ earned at this point? You know, George
McKee was kind of asked that question, and I feel
like like he kind of gave an answer and an
answer non answer like well, you know, we believe in
Ryan I and that's the different difference as opposed to
maybe maybe Ryan pin Pace before you know, uh uh
(01:42):
to have got since you know McCaskey took cook over
in two thou eleven, but you know, you as a
as a bail for the best. But after going through
that experience yesterday, I I feel I feel like that
didn't really look uh with uh with uh you know,
as I'm heading in to this coaching search, yep.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Michael, I'm getting some feedback on your on your end.
I think, uh Rick says in the comments that he's
here in an echo. Guys, let me know if you're
hearing that as well, we'll we'll get that straightened out.
But yeah, I'm I'm with you in that, Like I
don't know the The question was asked directly to George McCaskey,
what what's different this time?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You know they've done this.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I forget what the number is, you know, four gms
and six head coaches something like that since George McCaskey
took over in twenty eleven, and.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
He was asked directly, why is this different?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
It was it was Mark Potash with The Son Times
who asked that question and and followed up when when
George kind of gave a non answer at first, uh
and he said, Ryan Poles has his experience, he has
Kevin Warren in his corner, and he can lean on
Kevin Warren's experience and and essentially, George McCaskey said, he
believes in those two guys, and that's that's the only
(02:57):
thing that's making this difference. We learned that there's gonna
be this panel of you know, a handful of different
people from within the organization all of them are within
the organization. It's not like last time when or the
last several times when they've had some you know, Bill
Pollian helped out last time. No, this is all, at
least at this point, this is all people within the
(03:18):
Bears organization.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
But you have a panel.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
It sounds an awful lot like exactly what they did
last time when they also had a panel of folks
who were interviewing candidates.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
As much as we.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Heard that this is going to be different, this is
going to be you know, Kevin Warren is the guy
in charge now. George mccaskey's still on that panel, so
he is definitely going to have his opinions about these
candidates when they get to that point. To me, it
all sounds like the same thing that we've done before.
The only difference is is George mccaskey's belief in Ryan
(03:52):
and Kevin to get it right. And I don't know
if Bears fans feel that same confidence right now.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
No, and let me know, if this doesn't sound good,
I changed out the microphone, but I would uh yeah,
I would agree. I mean, you're just kind of hoping
at this time, You're hoping, right, You're just kind of
hoping for the best thing. You kind of hope that
you know, they kind of learned from their past mistakes
and they figured something out here, because you know, it's
(04:19):
just kind of hard to kind of, you know, go
through this process all over again. And you know, I
know that a lot of I saw some things going
around yesterday where people were saying, you know, well, the
Packers have done the same thing, like they've talked to
all these different people and you know, different teams. It's
just kind of doing the modern way of doing football
now where you include all these different people. But you know,
at the end of the day, you just, you know,
(04:41):
I think at the end of the day, this needs
to be Ryan's decision, right, And he kept saying that yesterday.
He kept saying that, you know, it's my decision. I'm
gonna work with George and Kevin, but I'm the guy
who's going to be making this decision. But I think
you just need to despite all these people who are
going to be involved in this process, he needs to
be Ryan's decision. Who's going to be this head coach.
(05:02):
And you know, he can listen to so and so hr,
he can listen to whatever, and you know, take their
input and be like, well, so and so has a
good presence and that would be good for press conferences
and that's important stuff, right, Like that shouldn't be the
determined determining factor, but you do want to look into
all those types of things. And obviously, based on how
the past coaching regime kind of went on, maybe HR
(05:22):
should be involved, just based on what the rumors were
in that sort of stuff. But at the end of
the day, it needs to be Ryan's decision, and because
ultimately this is his job, right. If he gets his
head coach right, he gets to stick around, he gets
to continue to build this thing. If he doesn't get
this right, he's done. Right. It's pretty much point playing
simple like that. So, yeah, there's a lot of people
(05:44):
getting involved and it's maybe not ideal, but at the
end of the day, if they do, let Ryan make
this decision, I think that's the only sound way of
running this search or you're just going to keep on
doing the same thing you've been doing over the past
what fourteen years?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, and you do sound better, Michael or more echo.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
The The decision is Ryan Poles, and that's very clear.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I just am.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Concerned about all the people, all the cooks in the kitchen,
all the people who are gonna have their comments, their
thoughts before you get to the finish line, and how
that may or may not sway to GM.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Ultimately, he's got to make this decision.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And that's very clear, you know, I know it was
when when they fired Fluce and they tried it out
Polls and Warren, it was they They sort of made
it clear, but they did it in a roundabout way,
and that was very much the strong message yesterday was
that this is Ryan Poles's decision ultimately.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
As it should be.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
But my concern is just, yeah, all the voices who
are going to be involved throughout the whole process not
I don't know. I don't think it's necessarily a bad
thing to have multiple voices. I just think that it
does feel kind of like you're doing the same thing
over again and expecting different results.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Sure, and I would agree with that, right, Like it
hasn't worked before, that's the biggest thing, right, Like, I
feel like you went through this experience, you know, three
years ago at this point when you're hiring Ryan and Matt,
and that didn't work with Matt obviously, and we're still
trying to figure out whether that worked with Ryan. So
I think that's the biggest thing when it comes to
this organization, where it's just kind of like you're not
(07:18):
seeing maybe maybe it is happening in the background. With
Kevin Warren, obviously, I know you hear about the spending,
like he's giving every opportunity. He's changed obviously the look
of the organization, bringing in a lot of you know,
senior vice presidents and that kind of stuff. But when
it comes to the coaching search, it doesn't seem like
that's being changed. And I feel like that's the you know,
(07:39):
that's probably the most important thing. Is all the other stuff,
All the business side things are important. Obviously, you want
to run a good organization that's going to make money.
But at the end of the day, if your product
isn't winning on the field, what does it really matter
if all the other stuff is happening, right, And that's
kind of the biggest thing, And I understand why you
and other people would be concerned. It's just kind of like, what,
this hasn't worked before. This probably says hasn't worked before,
(08:01):
at least at least at this point. They're not using
a bill Polly, and they're not using any like outside
council other than maybe for background information. But it just
does feel like, well, maybe we this didn't work a
few years ago. Maybe we should include all these different
people in there. Maybe George shouldn't be involved as much.
Obviously you should have a say, it's he's a chairman,
it's his team, right, but maybe he shouldn't be as
(08:23):
involved as he was in the past. Search. So yeah,
I would agree it is concerning, and you would hope
that they would learn and maybe they did. Maybe they're
going to Ryan's going to approach this much differently. I
think there's just a bunch of uncertainty and that's kind
of a I think that's the biggest thing, right, there's
a bunch of uncertainty with how much time is left
on Ryan's you know contract, how much is it? Like
there's just too much uncertainty where you're just kind of like, well,
(08:46):
why all this uncertainty and why are we like guessing
at this point?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, there was you know, there's a couple of different
threads we can pull on some of the things we heard,
and you know, we'll go there since you just mentioned it,
we don't know how long Ryan contract is, and Kevin
Warren was asked about that, and he said something, uh,
something to the effect of, you know, people make a
lot of He started as his answer, you know, Kevin
(09:11):
Warren doesn't give short answers. He started his answer by
saying that, you know, people make a lot of assumptions
about certain things. And I think you know the fact
of course that they're not telling us how long Ryan's
contract is. We have to read between the lines, and
and that can mean one of two things. That can
mean that Ryan isn't going into the last year of
his deal. Uh, that's one thing. Or I mean you
(09:34):
could read that as as like the total opposite.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Uh, and and uh.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
You know you can say that that that's not something
that they're concerned about. That's not essentially that's that's kind
of what they were saying, that that's not going to
affect It seemed like that's what they were saying, that
that's not going to affect the coaching search. George McCaskey
said that no coaching candidate has ever asked him how
long the GM's contract is, and.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That kind of seems weird to me, Like.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Okay, if I've a coaching I want to know how
long my general manager is there for?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Certainly, certainly coaching cannons have asked you.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
About the GM and how much you like him and
how much faith you have in it, Like there's questions,
you know, there's ways of like feeling that out, even if.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
They don't ask directly, Well, how long is his contract?
I don't even know if I believe that, though.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I gotta feel, like, you know, how many coaching cannis
have the interviewed over the last fifteen years, You're telling
me not one of them asked that question.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And I just don't get the secrecy of it all right,
Like you know, how long you know Caleb has a
contract for Jalen Johnson like the money, like I as
a fan, Like I don't care how much money? Like it?
And Ryan Poles was asked about this and he said,
like he was asked about whether he was given an extension,
and he replied with it's a personal matter, and I
don't I've said from the beginning, I don't talk about,
(10:52):
you know, the length of my contract or the money.
And no one is wondering about his money, like I
to be quite frank, like I don't care how much
money he's making I don't like that, doesn't that doesn't
do anything, Like I don't really care about that at all,
But the length of a contract is important and I
don't really know why that's what what is the point
of hiding that? I guess like and it's just again
(11:12):
it goes to the organizational you know, dysfunction for lack
of a better word, of just being like, he's not
answering that. Kevin Warren goes on to soliloquy about how
you know a year is a lifetime and goes into big,
this big introspective conversation about what is a year? What
is time? And you're just like why, And then George
mccaskey's talking about obviously, like you mentioned earlier about no
(11:35):
one's question about that, it's just like, guys, why are
we not making this simple? Just say how much time
he has left? If he has one year, own up
to it and say he has one year because he
has improven this or anything like that, Like we still
have questions about Ryan and this is his opportunity to
prove it. Or they can say, oh, he gave him
a contract you know, last year and now like extension
and now he's on two years as opposed to one year.
(11:56):
Like again, it's just like this uh, this seacresy and
you know, adding more of a spotlight onto yourself when
you don't need to, or it's just kind of like,
you know, if I'm an outside candidate, if I'm let's
say Ben Johnson and I am the top candidate or
Mike Rabel in the in this in this pool, and
I probably have the pick of the litter, and I
can go anywhere from a non biased view. Yes, you
(12:21):
know I have I have Caleb Williams, I've got cap space,
and I've got traff picks. But then this stuff doesn't
leave me encouraged right like heading into this, like I'm
just kind of like, well, why are you guys making
this more difficult? And what is it going to be
when I'm the head coach? Am I going to be
involved in this? And are you going to put me
in bad situations in front of the media and that
sort of stuff? Are you going to make me do
(12:41):
an exit in or a media interview and then fire
me like half an hour later? Like all this stuff
that just kind of snowballs with this organization. It just
kind of makes you feel like if you're like an
unbiased You're not bear span would you apply for this job?
Like would you feel comfortable with what you're hearing outside
when you're hearing all the press conferences like it just
(13:02):
continuously For some reason, they just make it harder on
themselves when it's like, just make it easy. Answer the
questions to the best that you can. No one is
asking for the money or anything like that, but just
ask the easy answer the easy questions and just make
it pretty easy so that people don't have to, you know,
continue to question you and what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And you know what Kevin Warren could have said, you know,
we are committed to Ryan Poles for the long haul,
for the future. Sure, it's as simple as that, rather
than going on a long tangent about a year is
a long time that that makes me think that he does.
You know, you can read between the lines and come
to whatever conclusion you want, Like you can find quotes
(13:42):
that make you think, oh, he's he's under contract for
two three more years, or you can find quotes that
make you think the exact opposite, like a year is
a long time. It's it's just such a weird way.
If I was a candidate interviewing for this job. My
number one concern would be would be working with Kevin Warren, Like,
is that a person that you want to Is that
(14:02):
who you want your boss to be? I mean, I
feel like the stuff we're here and we didn't learn
anything new about the stadium, only that they have built
great momentum toward getting their stadium done in the city
of Chicago. That was the exact quote. They've built. Forget well,
maybe that wasn't the exact quote. He used the word momentum.
I forget what he said.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
What did he say, Michael, Great, They've been building up
to it for a couple of years. There's been political momentum,
which I don't know what political momentum means. I don't
think there is. I don't think that thing exists.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Has changed in three years, right, Nothing?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Well, I mean their focus has changed, but nothing has
gotten done, whether it's Arlington, whether it's whether it's Chicago.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Well, especially in the city of Chicago.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I know the tax stuff was in the news a
couple of months ago in Arlington, but they're not building
the stadium yet, you know, and he keeps saying they're
going to start building a stadium by the end of
twenty twenty five calendar year, and the clock's ticking.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
We're here now, it's twenty twenty five, and it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
You know, we can do a whole podcast about the stadium,
and I know we're focusing on the coaches and that
kind of stuff, But I think that's another thing, right,
Like I feel like I keep hearing, like I think
from the outside view, you have these national reporters who
are trying they're not trying to sell the Bear's job,
but they're just trying to. You know, They're saying, like,
this is an attractive job. You have Caleb, you have
cap space, you have draft capital. And every single time
(15:22):
I feel like they say and they're building a new stadium,
it's like are they like where where is the stadium happening?
The governor and state legislators are like, we're not giving
you any money. There's no shot this is going to happen.
You're likely to face a lawsuit from far, you know,
on the Lakefront. And then you keep saying that Michael
Reice is bad. Meanwhile Arlington Heights is just standing there
waiting for you. Like again, it's another element of this organization.
(15:45):
Where you're just kind of like, you brought Kevin Warren
to take care of this job and he hasn't done that,
And now he's added coaching search which someone asked him,
I forget whether it was John Greenberg of The Athletic
or someone else asked them, is that going to be
hard to balance? And he's like, no, Like you can
do it all. It's like you haven't been able to
do the first part, so what makes you encourage that
you're going to do the second part? So again, it
(16:06):
just goes into all of this where you're just kind
of like, man, if I am a first year coach,
if I am Mike Frable trying to get back into it,
taking my second chance, taking Brian Flores trying to get
my second chance, probably your last chance if it doesn't work.
Am I going to the Bears and staking my whole
livelihood and my career on this? Like it's just kind
of like this none of this sounds good right now
(16:27):
other than the bright shiny object of Caleb Williams and
the potential of being like I can ignore all that,
I can whatever, I can just live with that I
have Caleb Williams, I have my future quarterback. I can
put them in the best spot to succeed, and I'm
going to overcome all of that. I think that's just
pretty much how you have to head into it if
you're a coach, and obviously it's one of thirty two jobs,
(16:49):
and it's a charter franchise. All the history we all
love to hear. There are good things about it, but
it's just like moments like Tuesday, you're just kind of like, man,
stop getting in your own way and just let the
job steak for itself for once.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
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Speaker 2 (17:10):
If you're listening after the fact on Spotify or Apple,
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We'll let you know when we're gonna go live. You
can come join us. You can see our lovely faces
and our posters and our bookshelves in the background. You
can join the conversation here in the comments. I want
to hit a comment, Michael, you were kind of going
(17:30):
down this road already and I do want to touch
on some of it. We got like a dozen candidates
who they're interviewing. I do want to touch on a
few of those that we know of, at least so far.
But CJ's got a comment here. He says, Jags or Bears,
which is more attractive? And I'm gonna I'm gonna open
it up more and say, Michael, if you're a head
coaching candidate, you're looking at these all six jobs open
(17:52):
right now. We have the Bears, we have the Jags,
who CJ mentioned there, We have who else? Do we
have the Saints, the Jets, the Patriots, and the Raiders.
Which which are the most Maybe the Cowboys, although the
reporting is that that the Cowboys are not letting the
Bears interview Mike McCarthy. But also he's not under contract yet,
(18:16):
so they haven't. They haven't until January fourteenth to figure
that out down in Dallas.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Which what are the most attractive jobs in your eyes?
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I think it's probably you know, I I'm conflicted on
how you approach it. I think in the grand scheme
of things, I think it is the Bears, and I
obviously you know the Titans, don't the Titan I think
there's a lot of things. If you're a candidate, do
you want to bring your own GM? Obviously that takes
away the Bears because Ryan Pols isn't going anywhere. The
(18:47):
Titans fired their coach, are there, they're their GM the
general I.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Think they're the only team right now that they're hiring
a GM.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
But is keeping the coach the Titans?
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah? Right? And and but you did hear shot Con,
which is kind of funny yesterday in his press conference
say next to his GM when he was asked, you know,
if a coach is going to say, hey, I'm wanting
to bring my own GM, is that going to be
a deal breaker? And shot Con said, no, that's not
going to be a deal breaker, right next to his GM.
So I think with that context, I think, if you know,
(19:26):
I think you would say that the Bears is probably
the top choice, mostly because Caleb Williams is still on
a rookie contract and you have the you know, other
stuff that we talked about. I think Trevor Lawrence is
obviously have a lot does have a lot of untapped potential,
and that is a really talented roster that kind of
underwhelmed this year. And I think you could do a
(19:46):
lot with that, and obviously, shot CON's going to spend money,
He's going to do a lot of resources to let
you succeed. But I think the thing with Trevor Lawrence
is you paid him right, like you gave him a
big contract, and eventually, like that's going to come back
to bite you, and that obviously is going to hurt
you with your roster construction, and that's going to hurt
also with like he's got experience. He's three or four
(20:09):
years into this thing, where you've got a one year
Caleb Williams thing where he kind of, yeah, he went
through some growing paints, he's gone through the rookie season,
and whoever comes in he's going to have to go
through some growing paints as well in the second year.
But I think you have more of a runway with
Caleb in his second, third, and fourth year than you
do with Trevor Lawrence at this point. So I think
(20:29):
I talked myself into saying that the Bears job is
the better job. I think that the Jags job is
pretty good. The Raider's job is kind of interesting, just
based on seems like Tom Brady's going to be really interested.
I that's a job. Yeah, and the Patriots' job is
obviously good with Drake May. There a lot of draft
capital and a lot of cap space. But I would
(20:49):
probably lean toward the Bears, but it's not a very
heavy lean.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, here's my thoughts on this.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I I, if I'm a head coaching candidate, I have
serious concerns about you, Jacksonville, because of the dynamic with
the head coach and the GM.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I mean, Trent balk.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I don't know, man, I can't believe that they kept him.
It's it's kind of crazy that this guy has has
gotten two GM jobs because his boss was fired and
he got promoted and and they had the chance to
do a clean sweep and they didn't.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
It's like this guy won't go away, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And I have serious concerns about about what's just the
number of coaches they've they've gone through the past couple
of years, the whole Urban Meyer thing, all that stuff.
I have concerns about just obviously they're not afraid to
spend money. They're building their their revamping their stadium, they
got a brand new facility.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
They're okay with with all that, and they want to win.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I just I have serious concerns about if that's the
ownership group that I want to work for, UH and
the GM that I want to work for. Like, I
would be shocked if like a Ben Johnson wants to
to go to Jacksonville. I don't see that happening, you know,
New Orleans. I would not want to coach there. They're
stuck with Derek Carr. They're in cap hell as they
(22:04):
have but they've been kicking the can down the road
for like ten years, UH and they really just need
to do a full on rebuild and blow the thing up,
but they won't admit that. And I really don't want
to be the coach who's there when when that happens,
and when when they come to the realization that that's
the only way to fix this is to just like
tear it down for a year or two and start over.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I don't want to coach there.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
On top of that, Yeah, Derek Carr is under contract
for like a couple more seasons, and that's that's gonna
be a tough contract to get out of. I think
the Raiders thing is kind of interesting with the Tom
Brady with with Tom Brady being being in ownerships well
being part of ownership and and obviously he has a
it seems like he has quite a sway on what
(22:50):
they decide to do. Right, It's kind of like a
blank canvas. You you don't have a quarterback, you have
some some good draft capital, you have a relatively high pick.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
There.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Like, I feel like that's an opportunity to to sort
of start with a blank slate, so to speak, And
to me, that's attractive in that way. But yeah, like,
obviously Caleb Williams is is Caleb Williams and Trevor Lawrence
are the best quarterbacks of these teams that that don't
have head coaches. And while I you know, I I
do love you know, I would I if I was
(23:23):
a head coach in Canada, I would love the opportunity
to work with Trevor Lawrence, I have bigger concerns about
that organization.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
At the same time.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I mean, you could say the same thing about about
the mccaskey's and the Bears.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
You know, I was just just saying, I don't know
if I would want to work with Kevin Warren, But.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I mean I feel like I just feel like having
the good young quarterback is is such a good place
to start and yes, it's a tough division.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I get that, but but these divisions changed so quickly.
Two years ago we were saying the NFC North was
the worst division in football, maybe three years ago.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
These things change really really quickly in the NFL, and
so I feel like that's less of an issue, honestly.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
And I think looking at the NFC North, like Detroit
has obviously had a lot of great success, but most likely, Ben,
you're losing both your corodinators. And obviously Dan Campbell's a
great coach and he's been able to you know, he
found Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn right like he found
them put him on the staff, But you're expecting them
to probably go through some regression as well, just based
(24:29):
on having a tougher schedule, losing both corodinators, and eventually
you're gonna have to pay and you know, the way
the NFL works at salary cap is going to come
into a factor and you're gonna lose some guys obviously,
because you got some guys want to get paid eventually.
But yeah, I would agree, I wouldn't be worried about that.
So I guess based on this conversation you obviously talked
(24:50):
about you know, the young quarterback. Does that mean that
New England is more interesting than the Jags just based
on Drake May obviously his potential? Would he kind of
showed you this year a lot of cap space, a
lot of draft capital. Does it pretty much become a
Bears versus Patriots, you know for the top job.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I actually do think that the Patriots is a really
good job because they have a quarterback and they want
to win. Obviously that team was really bad this year. Yeah,
I think maybe with a better head coach they could
have won a couple more games, But I don't think
that they were like, obviously a very good team. But
is that Mike Rabel's job to lose? Like, is this
(25:29):
really is this really an open an open head coaching spot,
Like if it is, if they're taking this seriously, and
like if they're open to Ben Johnson versus Mike Rabel
versus any other candidate, then yeah, I do think it
is a really good job.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I'm really interested because this kind of dictates how this
whole coaching carousel is going to go, right, Like, yeah,
I think, yes, he's Mike Rabel's reported like to be
the favorite in New England. But does Tom Brady have
a sway with this former teammate and he's And is
that kind of the reason why the Raiders decided to
do what they do where they kind of like Brady's
(26:04):
kind of like listen, like I can convince Rabel to
come here and we can build something really good. I'll
give them like the trust, I'll let them build the
whole thing. And does that kind of impact because I think,
you know, if you're a Bears fan, you're probably looking
at Johnson and Rabel as your top two, right like when.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
You're tier number one is those two guys.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
But I do think when you're looking at Rabel's likely
landing spots, it is probably the Patriots or the Raiders,
and then you got the Bears like a little distant third.
So I am interested to see, you know, how that
kind of shakes out, because if New England doesn't get Rabel,
are they going all in on Johnson or vice versa.
If the Raiders don't do that, you know, are they
(26:46):
going in on that? And I think the biggest thing
is obviously you've got Caleb to sell and the Raiders
don't have a quarterback to sell. And I forget what
draft pick they have, but I think it's like in
the mid mid first number six. Yeah, okay, so like
you based on the quarterback talent you're getting in this draft.
I don't know if you're going to be able to
(27:06):
pick your franchise quarterback by any means, but yeah, I
think that'll be interesting, just based on how where Vrabel
goes really impacts how the rest of this carousel goes.
And obviously it's up to Ben Johnson where he wants
to go, but a few moves here or there can
really dictate, you know, how this old whole thing unfolds
and where the Bears are kind of left with at
(27:26):
the end of the month.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Here Ben Johnson and Sam Darnold with the Raiders done
in Las Vegas, let's make it happen. I think I
think that'd be spicy. They don't have any receivers down there.
They got Brock powers. But yeah, I do like the
Patriots job. If it's really open and we didn't touch
on the Jets.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I don't know where the Jets do. I don't know what.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I don't think we need to touch on the Jets.
I don't know what the Jets are doing. Yeah, that
that list of interview candidates was all pretty much all
guys who have done the job. I will say this,
like there's also different level.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Of candidates like Ben Johnson can be picky. He is
like so like he.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Is in such a favorable position. That offense was amazing
again this year. Obviously, you like with all coordinators, like at.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Some point, you know, the.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Talent falls apart, you have a year where guys are injured, whatever,
Like he's not going to be in this position forever,
but he's in a really really good spot right now
where he can be choosy. He if he doesn't want
to coach the Jags, he doesn't have to interview down there,
whereas some other candidates, like a name that came out
this week that's super interesting, Matt Nagy, who seems like
(28:37):
he really wants to be a head coach again. I
feel like he's going to wind up being the coach
of a team like the Jets or the Saints or
the Jags, And I.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Don't know how that will go. But I just feel
like he's the type of.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Candidate who who really if he really values being a
head coach over honestly, I think he should stay where
he is for as long as possible, because he can
just keep winning Super Bowls with Patrick Mahomes. But if
he wants to be a head coach, he's going to
wind up somewhere like that.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
If I'm Naggie, I would wait right like, I feel
like you have like a pretty you know. Obviously, Bears
fans don't love Naggie, and obviously for various different reasons.
But he did make the playoffs twice. He was a
Coach of the Year and quite honestly, like thirty four
and thirty one record, yeah, and he actually was, and
his quarterback was Mitch Trubisky, right like. And then obviously
(29:27):
he screwed the pooch on, you know, dealing with Justin
Fields his rookie season, throwing him out with the Browns unprepared, unprotected.
But if you're an outside team and you're looking at
Naggie's resume, you're like, I've won a lot of you know,
Super Bowls with Patrick Mahomes, I've learned a lot from
Andy Reid, I learned from my experiences in Chicago, which
(29:48):
I was now really put in a good position to
succeed in Chicago, and still I won Coach of the
Year and took that team to the playoffs twice. Like,
it's not terrible. It's not a terrible resume. If you're
an outside team, look looking at Naggy and you're kind
of like, well, maybe he learned a lot. Maybe if
we put a relatively like an average quarterback with them,
he can succeed. But this, this podcast is in the
(30:10):
Matt Naggy job whatever, a recruitment offer or anything like that.
But yeah, it is just interesting just kind of see
how different teams are approaching it. And for Ben Johnson,
who have we confirmed so far, it's pretty much been
the Bears. He is talking to the Patriots right the Jaguars,
the Jaguars requested him. I don't know if I saw him.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
The report was that the Jaguars requested him, and then
when the Jaguars, I believe the Jets did. The Jaguars
put out a list of requests. I don't think he
was on there. I thought, am I thinking of the Jets?
I might be thinking of the Jets?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
The Jets are not requesting, which is just maybe they
just kind of know that he's not coming here. We're
not wasting our time kind of deal.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That is so funny that is so funny that the
Jets are not requesting Ben Johnson, and maybe maybe maybe
Ben said nah, I'm good, which I if I was
him I would do. But yeah, yeah, you know what,
let's dive into some of these some of these names
that the Bears have requested. We do know this from
some of the reporting from the NFL Network and from ESPN.
(31:16):
Interviews could start as early as yesterday Tuesday for coaches
who played on Saturday during week eighteen, and then a
bunch of them are going to start today. There's a
bunch of different rules. Head to show Local dot com.
We have a story on all the rules if you're
interested in that. Some candidates can interview this week, some
(31:37):
will have to wait till till next week. These are
all virtual interviews at this point for coaches who are
still employed by other teams.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I'm just gonna go.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Down the list. These are alphabetical by last name. I'm
going to read off maybe a handful and see what
sparks our interests here. Joe Brady, the Bills offensive coordinator,
Pete Carroll, Brian Flores, Aaron Glenn, Ben Johnson.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
What stands out to you? Obviously?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Ben Jonson is a guy who's been talked about a lot. Michael,
have your feelings changed or or your thought process changed
at all in these last couple of days with regards
to him.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
No, If I'm the Bears, it's Ben Johnson our bust,
and I could be convinced Mike Rabel. I think, I
think if Mike Rabel has a really good plan for uh,
for Caleb Williams, he has a good offensive coordinator that
he's guaranteed to bring in, that he has a lot
of trust in and can bring in. I I've heard
I think it's Albert Career. I forget who had said
who was it said that he would bring Tommy Reese
(32:32):
with him, maybe from the Browns and that kind of stuff,
which I don't know how excited The Bears obviously had
a lot of Notre Dame front fans on the podcast,
I'm sure, but based on his track the Alabama Notre Dame.
But yeah, it's Ben Johnson for me, I think, you know,
it's kind of interesting because I feel like the Bears
are getting some flag from fans being like, why are
(32:53):
we talking to so many people like you? And he
talked about having a month to kind of prepare, but
I'm kind of the mindset where you can't talk to
these people in person until the twentieth if I remember
the data correctly after the divisional round. Yep, yeah, you can't.
You can't. So you're not going to be able to
hire anyone until at least like what the twenty second,
(33:14):
the twenty third maybe or whatever. If everything goes perfectly right,
everyone's schedules aligne right. So I don't think there's anything
wrong in talking to a Pete Carroll to talking to
to to a Cafka obviously a local guy Northwestern read
on that kind of stuff. I think you need to
learn as much as you can about your team. I
think you need to because when you're going through this
(33:35):
interview process, a lot of guys are going to be like, well,
Caleb was doing this, and I see what he's kind
of messing up with this promotion. I would fix up
his plugwork, I would fix up his timing, I would
fix up whatever or with DJ Moore. You know, I'm
just throwing on names out there just based on what
people because when you're going for a job, you're trying
to show off that you know what you're talking about,
and you're trying to just like create your plan. So
(33:58):
if you're Brian Poles and you're the mcare maybe you're like, well,
I never thought of it that way, or I didn't
look at it that way or anything like that. So
there's a lot of good information you can gain from
these interviews, and honestly, even just down the road where
maybe your OC gets hired by someone else, you're like,
I like that person when I talked to them a
couple of years ago. Let's go after them again after
(34:19):
they gained some experience, right, So I think there's a
lot to learn, and that's I'm not really concerned about
the wide range of people that you're going to be
talking to or anything like that. So that's why I'm
not really that concerned. Like sure, talk to Kafka, talked
to Pete Carroll, talked to Shaw. Shaw was a very
random one that I don't think we really expected, or
(34:40):
the OC from Arizona. But at the end of the day,
for me, I think it's just Brandon Johnson and you're
just trying or Brandon Johnson, geez Ben Johnson, and you're
trying to get as much information about what's going wrong
with your team and how you can fix.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
It, Brandon Johnson, the uh the are you?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Are you referencing the Denver Broncos receiver or the Chicago mayor.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I don't know who was. Probably the mayor would make
more sense just based on the stadium negotiations. But yeah,
that was that was a slip of the tongue.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I look, if you're gonna interview Mike McCarthy, or try
to interview Mike McCarthy, you should be interviewing Pete Carroll
Like that's just yeah, I'm totally okay with that. I've
I've been saying Pete Carroll needed to be interviewed for
weeks like that's that should be a name that's on
your list if you're looking for somebody who can who
can come in and lead your organization. That's the type
(35:31):
of you know, you can you can criticize, you know,
his offenses, defense, all that stuff, but he is a
leader type guy.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
And so yes, you should be interviewing guys like that.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And Kevin Warren said like he wants to go into
this process with no preconceived notions about any of these candidates.
So yeah, if you're gonna do that, you know, a
wide net is okay. You Michael, you touch on a
couple of these. I'll read the rest of the list here.
Mike Kafka, the Giants offensive coordinator.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
He's a Chicago guy.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Uh and I mean okay, Ryan Pols likes to bring
in Chicago guys for his team. I don't know if
he would do that for his head coach. I don't
think that's a strong enough reason to do that. But
don't dismiss that, like that's been something that's that's been
important to him.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Bringing TJ.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Edwards here, you know, Jack Sanborn, some other guys who
are from the Chicago area, like that has has been
something of notes in the past, and so I'll just
throw that out there. Mike McCarthy, who it sounds like
is not going to be allowed to interview, or at
least not until he hits free agency. Todd Monkin, the
Ravens offensive coordinator. Drew Petsing, the Cardinals offensive coordinator. David Shaw,
(36:39):
the former Stanford coach. That one definitely feels like it's
out of left field, although I mean he is he
is very respected within, you know, within the coaching realm
Arthur Smith.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
The Steelers OC.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Gosh, I hope that doesn't happen for our sake, Mike
Rabel and Anthony Weaver is the Dolphins defensive coordinator.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yeah, Arthur Smith, you know he was just clowning, clowning.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
You think that flu press conferences were bad, Arthur Smith,
ones would be like in the the opposite direction of bad.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah. I obviously you don't worry about the press conferences.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
That's that's not important. That's that is very very relevant
to our jobs.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
But yeah, but still, like you don't want to consistently
have people like with Maddy Eberflus for Mad Nag. You
don't want to have sound bites that consistently or like
make the Bears sound dopey or anything like that. Like,
there is some value to it obviously, Like at the
end of the day, if you're winning games, like Bill
Belichick was winning games and he was terrible at press conferences, Okay,
who cares. Like it's funny when you're winning. It's cute
(37:42):
when you're winning, But there is some value to it.
But yeah, I think that list is interesting. You didn't
say Liam Cohen right from the Buccaneers. I don't think
they have reached out to.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I have that and I have not seen that.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
That's interesing wrong. That's an interesting tidbit where I was
kind of heading into this thing being like, obviously it's
Johnson and Rabel, I want to talk to Joe Brady.
I thought Liam Cohen would be in there obviously with
maybe with the and the way, I mean, maybe even
if they can't talk to him this week, I think
you'd be able to at least put in a request.
(38:17):
So that one was interesting. Just haven't been able to
see him kind of get in there. Maybe they're not
as interested in what Tampa Bay's doing with their offense,
But Joe Brady was He's been requested, right, So I
think cj he was requested and I would talk to him,
But Joe Brady one was kind of interesting to me.
If you know, if Ben Jonson, if Mike Rabels say
(38:41):
no to you, or they go somewhere else or whatever,
the fit isn't right. Joe Brady was at the top
of my, you know, second tier list, and I'd be
interested to talk to him and just kind of see
what his perspective is because I know a lot of
people give him a hard time. He's like, well, anyone
can do it. With Josh Allen but you saw that
offense before you know, he took over, that was not
a great offense, and he kind of reinvigorated Josh Allen.
(39:04):
So I'd be really interested in talking to Joe Brady
just with what he's been able to do there.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, it's interesting to talk about. Yeah, who is at
the top of tier two? If Ben Johnson and Mike
Frabel are, you're a tier one. You know, which of
these coaches is up there? You know, I think you
could throw Todd Monkin up there. He's done a really
nice job with the Ravens. Also with a quarterback who
likes to to improvise, you know, in Lamar Jackson, maybe
that could be a fit there.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Obviously, there's with any of these coordinators.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
There's a bit of a leap of faith, like you
don't know how they are as a leader of the team.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
You know, it's one thing to scheme up for your.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Your offense, your defense, but it's another thing to lead
the team.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
There's some names that that don't really excite me all
that much. I mean, I don't know much about Anthony Weaver,
the Miami Dolphins defensive coordinator. I honestly, I don't know
much about Drew Petsing the Cardinals offensive coordinator, other than like,
the Cardinals have been a decent offense the last few years,
or at least since that that coaching change happened and
Kyler got back healthy. Brian Flores is a guy who
(40:06):
was like another guy who I feel like, if you're
interviewing guys like you should have him on your list.
And it's absolutely valuable to like, he's a guy that
players will play hard for, you know, just reading some
of the stuff about the Vikings defense, Like those guys
on the other side they love playing for him. Yeah,
And to go back to Mike Kafka too. I know
(40:26):
people read Giants offensive coordinator and think, why on earth
would we interview the Giants offensive coordinator. But remember he's
actually the reason why Matt Naggie has a job because
he was the Chiefs quarterback coach before getting the OC
job in New York and he left and Matt Naggie
came back to be the Chiefs quarterback coach a couple
of years ago. He was with the Chiefs for that
(40:50):
whole that whole time. You know, he worked his way
up from a quality control coach to get a job
on the staff and while that whole time, while the
Chiefs were sort of that up and coming team and
Patrick Mahomes was doing those things he did in twenty eighteen,
twenty nineteen, twenty twenty and all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
So that's not crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I know, you read Giants offensive coordinator and you think,
oh god, what are we doing.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I don't think that's that crazy.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
And I think the thing with the Giants is, you know,
the Giants, I think I think I'm correct here. I
think Gable is the one who's still calling the offense.
So obviously he's he's so Capkaz just kind of he's
doing stuff obviously, but like he's not running, doing the
play calling or anything like that. And when you look
at the Giants offense, I feel like the Giants offense
(41:35):
struggles are more of the pieces than the plays, right,
Like there's no like, there's no quarterback. Obviously, you got Neighbors.
He's a fantastic, you know, threat and obviously a fantastic rookie,
but what else do you really have on that offense
That kind of you would be like, well, I want
to see great numbers. It's like the quarterback's not there
and the Laie Neighbors can't do it all by himself,
(41:57):
So what are you kind of expecting? So I would
look I would look at that interview with some nuance
and kind of be like, well, the Giants aren't great.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
But what quarterback did they have?
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Right? Like, what do you really have there that you're
kind of expecting greatness?
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:13):
What quarterback did they have? Who besides mylikue neighbors? Who
was making plays for your offense? And there's there was
really nobody.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
That's such an interesting situation, uh, In.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Terms of the Giants, you know, the team that didn't
fire their head coach and GM, it's like those guys
were brought here to to usher in the post Daniel
Jones era, and then they had one good year and
then they decided to sign Daniel Jones to that big contract,
and I mean it almost cost them and it still
might cost them their jobs next year.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
You know, It's that's a really tough situation.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I don't envy. I don't envy.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
You know, the mayor is having to make that decision
because on one hand, it's like the easy thing to do,
I guess would have been to fire them. Really like,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
That. Yeah, how they haven't drafted a quarterback. They haven't
brought in their own quarterback.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I mean other than like you know, the guys further
down the roster, they haven't brought in their own starting quarterback.
I agree with the decision to give them another year
because of that.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
That's just me personally, But I'm going on a tangent.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, I mean the Giants are interesting. I mean Joe
Shane and his Saquon Barkley comment on Hard Knocks is
the reason why that offseason Hard Knocks is never going
to happen. Ever. Again, obviously that didn't go the way
the Giants expected it too, But I guess I know
we have a few minutes left here, Sean. I was
just kind of curious they're going to go through this
(43:42):
whole process. We're not going to know who the coach
is probably for another couple of weeks, three weeks, I
guess it depends on how long teams are in the
playoffs or whatever. Are you pretty much in the state
of the Bears need to get their proven, proven coach,
like when they need to get the headliners, they need
to get either like Ben Johnson and I were able
for you to be convinced that this is going to work,
(44:03):
or are you open to a name out of left
field because you know, a few years ago, I don't
know how many people were talking about Kevin O'Connell and
obviously look how great it turns out and Mad Lafleur.
I know has Head had some success you know before,
but I feel like he was kind of like a
mid tier Like he wasn't like the face I don't
if I remember correctly, Like it was kind of like
people knew about him, but they weren't like, ah, that's
(44:23):
going to be a home run higher. So are you
of the mindset of this search needs to end with
the home run higher or it's a failure, or are
you open to if the Cardinals oc ends up being
Kevin O'Connell no one knows about him yet or anything
like that.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
I think I, as somebody who's covered this team for
you know, the last five six years, like I'm open
to anything. I am also highly skeptical that anything's going
to work. You know, I think both those things are true.
So I'm I'm open to them doing whatever they think
is best for this team. Uh, it would not It
(45:03):
would not surprise me. If if the name at the
end of all this is not who we think it's
gonna be. We've seen them do that before. I think
Fluse was kind of in that. I mean, I know
he was talking about then, but I I don't know
how seriously people thought they were going to hire him, Uh,
you know, early on in that process. And obviously you
could say the same thing with with Mark Trustman and
(45:25):
some of the previous hires. I'm open to anything, though,
like I'm open to being to being surprised.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
And that's okay if they get it right. They just
have to get it right.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
And I'm not saying that that's obviously that's easier said
than done. That's easy for me to say, sitting on
the sidelines, not being in these decisions. I would prefer,
you know, the more I've thought about this, it's like
I would prefer somebody who's done the job and and
is is maybe uh, you know, the type of motivator
(45:58):
that you want. That's maybe a Mike Rabel, may be
a Pete Carroll, somebody who's been in that role, who's
who's been in that job before.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Because at the end of.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
The day, like every single coordinator on this list, it's
something of a leap of faith.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Yeah, and it is definitely a leap of faith. And
I've kind.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Of Brian Flores. I'll throw his name out there.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Too, Yeah, sure, Yeah, he's got that experience. Yeah, it's
just interesting and it kind of goes back to the
whole thing that we kind of talked about at the
beginning is like how much how much confidence do you
have if this is going to go the right way?
So that's kind of why I'm kind of I'm kinda
of the mindset of go for your go, go with
what is in front of the obvious choice in front
(46:38):
of you. Where I think the barriers have gotten lucky
the last couple of seasons here where yes they traded
with Carolina for the number one pick, but Carolina had
to earn that number one pick last year to be
the worst team. And maybe Ryan Pol's new from the
beginning that that roster is going to be bad, that's
going to be dysfunctional. I'm choosing that team and they're
gonna end up with the number one pick, and I'll
get Caleb Williams if so, maybe we need to be
(47:00):
giving him more credit than we've been doing. But I
think the Bears had an obvious choice in taking Caleb
Williams last offseason, and I feel like they have an
obvious choice here. Either do whatever you can to get
Ben Johnson, do whatever you can to get Mike Frabel,
get those headliners in there, and just and if it
doesn't work at the end of the day, okay, then
it doesn't work. Because I don't think anyone in a
(47:22):
few years that Ben Johnson ends up flailing, if he
doesn't end up working, is going to give you a
hard time for going for him. He's been the offensive
he's been the offensive coordinator for the best offense over
the past three seasons. He's had a lot of success.
That is a process where I think you're kind of
like it just didn't work out. And I understand a
lot of Bears fans are worried about the Naggy effect,
(47:44):
but I feel like he's much more proven than Naggy
was at this point. Right. I think you obviously have
a lot of success, and obviously he's got a lot
of great playmakers. He's not gonna have that offensive line
in Detroit that he would have with the Bears. But
for me, it's just kind of like it's right there,
make it happen. Do everything you can to convince these
people that you need to be the place that they
(48:06):
want to go to. And that's for me one a
hire Ben Johnson and that doesn't work, get Mike Brabel
and then go from there. And if it doesn't work out,
then sometimes it just doesn't work out. About for me,
it's pretty simple that you just go for the obvious
choice and you just let it happen.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
That's a really good point, Michael, Like, it's not necessarily
apples to apples to compare Matt Naggie in twenty eighteen
to Ben Johnson right now, because you're right, like Andy
Reid was running that offense. Andy Reid was in charge
of that thing a lot more than Matt Naggie was.
I know Naggie was calling plays down the stretch there.
(48:45):
He called the plays in the playoffs, and they famously
admitted that it was his fault they didn't run the
ball in the playoff game when the Data Bears hired him.
But that's neither here nor there. Ben Johnson has been
the in charge of that offense. He has been the
one running that thing. We all know Dan Campbell is
(49:06):
is obviously a great like leader, a great vibes guy,
but he he isn't in charge of the offense in
the same way that Andy Reid has been. Even you
could even say that for Matt Naggy now and that's
maybe a knock against him as a candidate for a
head coach. Yeah, that's that. That's a really good point.
I mean, we'll see how this all plays out. I
obviously Ben Johnson is going to be a really popular candidate,
(49:29):
but it seems like there's interest there at least to
go through the interview process with the Bears and see
where that takes him.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Maybe that's where this thing is heading.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Uh Vrabel is so interesting, Like, we'll see what happens
in New England. But I do think like he is
a guy who who would you know, Rabel, tough, defensive
guy like I think Chicago would like him. I think
he would they would love He would be the exact
type of person, Yeah, you want for this job, whether
whether he's right x's and o's or whatever. Like, he
is the type of person and leader that you would
(50:00):
want if you're the city of Chicago.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Yeah he is he If it is Rabel that's going
to be your stereotypical Chicago coach. He's going to fit
that mindset so well, and and I think that's why
a lot of people are excited about the potential of
having him, right. I think that's why people like you.
Hear about how much people you know, just go around
him and love him and that kind of stuff. So
(50:23):
that would be really fun as well. But yeah, I
think it all comes down to, like Russ kind of
mentions in his comment, are we sure anyone wants the job?
That's the biggest thing, right, Like, are we sure that
people are going to want this job? I feel like
we kind of made the case that people do, right,
I think so, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure
what we ended up doing here in the first you know,
what we did for fifteen minutes, and whether we did
(50:44):
a good selling job for them. But I think it's
an attractive job and if you're Ben Jonson, if you're
Mike Rabel, if you're at any other candidate, and I
think it's one of the top jobs to go after,
and it'll be interesting to see what happens here in
the next few weeks.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah, thanks everybody for joining us once again. Hit the
thumbs up. If you're with us here on YouTube, that
is a great way to support the show. We would
really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
If you're listening after the fact on Spotify or on Apple,
please leave us a review. Everybody had to shaw local
dot com to read all of our stuff, and please
consider subscribing. That's the number one best way to support
us is to head to shaw local dot com and subscribe.
He's Michael Dwojack. You can find him on Twitter at
m Dwojack ninety four. I am Sean Hammon. You can
find me at Sean Underscore Hammond. We will let you
(51:29):
know when we're going live. We are gonna keep it
up here during the off season. Our schedule might be
a little bit more sporadic, but we definitely want to
meet with you at least once a week here during
this coaching search. So we will let you know when
we're gonna go live next time and keep an eye
out for that. This has been the Shaw Local Bears
Insider podcast. Thanks for joining us, everybody, Thanks for listening,
(51:49):
and have a great rest of your week.
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