Episode 38: Creepy Politicians, Periods, and Microfinance - The State of Women Today

We interrupt our two-part interview with Mar Hicks to bring you this episode. Liz sits down with guest co-host, Amy Drayer (@amydrayer) to talk about WTF is going on in politics today, the state of women in the world, and how we can resist the patriarchy.

Follow Amy on Twitter @amydrayer

Show notes and links on our webpage: http://shewhopersisted.com

Episode Transcript

(00:14):
She was warm. She was givenan explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted.
Welcome to she who persisted the Nastypodcast. This is Elizabeth and I am
here with a special guest, ourfriend, Amy Dreyer. So instead of

(00:38):
the second half to the interview withhistorian mar Hicks, because there is so
much going on in the world ofthe fight against the patriarchy, I thought
it might be a good idea tosit down and talk about what is going
on with another great feminist, AmyDreyer. So let's get started. There's

(00:59):
a lot to talk about between creepypoliticians, the twenty twenty presidential race in
the United States, and just ohand the new like menstruation equality legislation that
is being proposed, which is kindof exciting. So what do you want
to talk about today? What's yourwhat's your what's your top fight against the

(01:22):
patriarchy that's going on in your lifetoday? It's not global, but global.
Not global, we can shift intoglobal, I mean the United States.
It's I just I'm always so disappointedin how ready and willing our white
women are to jump to the defenseof white men and the whole Joe Biden

(01:42):
thing that's going on right now,and the amount of energy that women are
putting into like villainizing other women.Right Honestly, I've seen so many YouTube
videos of Joe Biden being a creeperthat I can't even believe that anybody would
come to his defense. I mean, I don't think he's doing it intentionally,
But that's the whole point, right, I Mean, patriarchy is all

(02:04):
about like the microaggressive, the likethings that keep us down without anybody like
meaning quote unquote meaning to do it. But it's it's that whole thing.
Well, like I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to like make you
feel creeped out. I didn't write. My interpretation of it was totally different
from yours, and so your interpretationof feeling creeped out is invalid. Like
I'm tired of that. Yeah,the gas lighting, it's just and you

(02:27):
know, you like if all ofthese women who and you know, I
saw them like meekly sort of likeraise a finger ever maybe to defend Hillary
Clinton. But if they put asmuch time and energy and like mental tricks
into defending Hillary as they did JoeBiden, we'd be living in a different
world right now. I Mean,it's just like they're so willing to jump

(02:51):
in and say, well, thatwoman, why did she do that?
Or why didn't she speak up atthe time, or why you know.
And of course Joe Biden is justlike he's he's a straw man, and
he's a stand in for all ofthe other men who do this on a
you know, totally consistent basis.And I just I was kind of thinking,
like, we're so willing. Somany people on the left are willing

(03:12):
to buy into this understanding about climatechange, right, and how it's this
entire system of small and large actsthat add up every day and you know,
we all have complicity in it,and you know, it's this like
sort of huge system where so manymultiple things fit together to create this overall

(03:32):
you know, eco oppression, right. And like women on the left are
so willing to buy into that,and they're like, oh no, I
don't use zip block snack snack bagsanymore because the climate, right, But
they're not willing to be like,oh, well, it's not okay for
my creepy uncle to hug my tenyear old Well, and you do get
women who are saying that, whoare saying, like, look, it's

(03:53):
inappropriate, like young girls should beable to have control over their own bodies.
Young girls and young boys and youknow whatever. Young people should be
able to have control over their ownbodies and be able to say, like
I don't want to kiss my weird, creepy aunt or my red uncle,
like I just I want to havecontrol over my body. But but when
we come to things like this withJoe Biden, and honestly justin Fairfax in

(04:15):
Virginia too, like that that we'renot willing to say, like, look,
just because you didn't think it wasokay to do it doesn't mean that
it was okay. Yeah. Yeah, there's so much like women are so
willing to be like, well,she should have taken personal responsibility in the
moment, yeah, and corrected it. You know. So that's just like
what's on my mind. I didso in reading up for this podcast,

(04:39):
I did come across a ton ofother things, and you know, like,
but that was that was the sortthat's the djore right now. You
know, when you log into Facebookas all of these white women talking about
the sanctity of Joe Biden and youknow, preserving his privilege. I mean,
do you think it's because we havethis media assumption and because of the

(05:00):
polling data supposedly that Joe Biden isthe only person who can beat Trump.
Yeah, well, it's all basedin fear. Right, anytime a woman
like tells another woman she's not goodenough, or she did it wrong,
or like steps in to defend theoppressor, right, is based on these
micro fears of you know, notconfronting what's happened to them in their lives.
But yeah, also on this largerscale, like we have to like

(05:24):
stand together and defend Joe Biden,you know, like don't need our own.
That's such a big criticism you alwayshear whenever you call out, you
know, some guy who's doing thisthing like don't need our own. But
that was not so much given toHillary Clinton. Well yeah, I mean
only works apparently when it's like JoeBiden or Bernie Sanders, right, or

(05:46):
Pete Buddha Judge or Betto or youknow, the four White Bees. I'm
real tired of people saying that BettoRourke, who lost his election, is
somehow going to be the savior ofthe Democratic Party. I'm so tired of
that. Yeah. No, Ijust put up a graphic that detailed the
four white bees and all of theirelectoral losses compared to um the women in

(06:12):
the race who have literally never lostan election, and the you know,
the common take is, but cana woman win? It's it's seriously so
exhausting. Yeah. Yeah, Andthat's that's the thing. Like, you
know, we we on she persistedor all about like fighting the good fight
and like really like keeping up andpersisting against patriarchy, but at some point

(06:36):
it's so exhausting. Yeah, Ijust want to eat a sheet cake.
Sheat caking, all on cheatcaking,and we're not even in twenty twenty yet,
I know. Yeah, uh sowhat else? What else did you
research in preparing for today? Yeah? So I realized, you know,
since leaving DC, where your worldis. It's this incredible micro or focus

(07:00):
inside the Beltway, right in thistiny little swath of the United States.
But on the other hand, you'reso much more globally engaged with political politics,
and you know, it's been awhile since I felt really globally engaged.
So I kind of went back throughand went to some of the you
know, the bigger think tanks thatI'm aware of around women's rights and read,

(07:23):
you know, the latest Annual Reporton the UN Commission on the Status
of Women, right, like whatthey're putting about. I went to the
Institute for Women's Policy Research Council onForeign Relations to try and just get myself
back into some sort of like Imean, you know, I do my
duty and listening to NPR every day, so there's that, but I you
know, I kind of wanted maybelike a little bit you know, I've

(07:44):
heard and obviously we all hear it'slike kind of two extremes when you hear
about women in the world, right, Like you hear about Iceland that's mandated
gender equity and their female prime minister, and you hear about like, you
know, kind of these great developmentsfor women in the EU pan the white
European Western world, about you know, women in leadership and electoral politics.

(08:05):
And obviously the United States had thebig Blue wave that was really the big
blue women's wave. And then therest of the world all you kind of
hear about is like women as refugees, right, as like victimized women escaping
terrible conditions. And obviously, youknow, any feminists can extrapolate what happens
to women as their conditions destabilize,right, sure, but also there is

(08:28):
you know, post me to postglobal Women's March. You know, the
gains in the developing world are alsosignificant, right, Like we're closing the
education gap for women, We're insome ways addressing violence against women, but
like even starting to collect statistics wherewe never had before. So I was,
I was saddened yet encouraged. Yeah, I mean, it's frustrating to

(08:52):
see how far we have to cobut it's great to see how far we
have already come, if that makessense. Yeah, for sure. I
mean I think I started learning aboutmicrofinance in the mid nineties, you know,
with the Gramin Bank and you know, kind of I remember reading about
that as a high schooler, andI actually volunteered. So I'm from the

(09:13):
small rural town and I actually volunteeredwith this guy who was doing local work,
like micro work for with the GraminBank program, and I volunteered with
him for a few months, justkind of like doing admin for him or
whatever. But it was the firsttime I'd heard about microfinance. And I
remember even way back when, youknow, and I was a dumb sixteen

(09:35):
year old kid who had some opinionsabout things, and most of them weren't
good opinions about things, but eventhen being like this is revolutionary, like
this is this is gonna you know, if it takes off, this could
really change things up and lo andbehold. Yes, the concept of microfinance
really has changed things. And that'ssomething that I did run into in reading

(09:56):
up on what's going on with womenin the world, is finance has definitely
been a cataclysmic change in the statusof women. Well yeah, I mean
and when you think about you know, where the United States was in the
sixties and seventies, where women couldn'tget a loan or sign for a bank
loan all on their own at all, you know, they could they had

(10:18):
no independent money to where we aretoday. I mean, think about how
much these loans mean for these womento be able to have their own businesses,
to be able to like support theirvillages, to support their communities.
And that also leads to the abilityfor their children to go to school,
their girls to go to school,which is super important. I mean,

(10:39):
we know, based on data thatthat has been collected over you know,
longitudinal data, that the more educationa woman has in developing countries, the
better her chances are at progressing andbeing you know, not being a child
bride, not being in positions ofoppression, right, absolutely, And it's

(11:01):
just you know, and to kindof pull that out further, Right,
the status of women and girls isa leading indicator for the status of the
country on a macro scale, right, Like, if women and girls are
safe from violence, it really isa bell weather and it talks so much
about whether the country as a wholeis, how safe it is from violence,

(11:22):
how safe it like, how stablethe democracy is. And you know,
we could we could probably talk abouthow much that interacts Like is that
an indicator that's completely divorced from itsresult, you know? Or is it
an indicator that drives the result?No? I tend to think it drives

(11:43):
the result. No, it's agood question. Um, And obviously we
you know, we can't We're notgoing to come up with the answer to
it here. But I mean,I think that the more that we can
support those kind of initiatives and themore that we can think think globally in
that way, not like white Saviorcomp legs, like white Savior Barbie like
that kind of stuff, but reallythinking about, um, the impact that

(12:05):
that our money and our support andour you know, our work generally has
on women and girls in other countriesand how that's really leading the way and
helping helping with the development of thosecommunities. Yeah, it's um. The
two kind of microfinance entrance points I'veseen available to the broader population in the

(12:28):
Western world are like, you know, buy someone a goat, um,
right, those are really popular programsand important programs. And then the other
one I've seen kind of coming upand I've participated in and I really like
is like the Kiva so right,So that is um it's kind of the
evolution of the Sally Struthers adopt achild, you know, plea from the

(12:52):
eighties, right, but it's thetwenty first century way. Kiva is this
platform where you kind of go onand it profiles. You know, Kiva
is doing work throughout the world,and a profile's women in developing countries who
you know, kind of make theircase for Hey, you person, lend
me x money, right, Andso you know, you go in and

(13:13):
a nou shin Armenia is trying toraise twenty five hundred dollars for And this
is what I've kind of seen.It's often it's these women running these little
bodegas. Right, Um, theselittle like kind of you know, defeating
food oasis issues in the developing world. Are we supposed to use developing world?

(13:33):
I am not sure what the termis anymore. And I feel like
developing world is the world is notcorrect? Yeah, Now it implies that
they are in a stage of developmentthat is like behind us, and I
feel like that's really like colonial languagefor how to talk about the develop the
developing words to talk about other countries. Yeah, I mean, I definitely

(13:56):
know we're not supposed to use thirdworld because for a second and third world
is just full it. But developingworld also, I think is wrong.
And I'm sure there's a better wayto say that, and I am not
sure what that is. So bleelovely listeners, uh um, educate us,
let us know. I mean,I'm not telling you to do our
work for us, but there's somuch on the internet to to like point

(14:18):
us in the direction of what thebest way to talk about, you know,
countries that are struggling, people whoare struggling. Yeah. If Christine
Lagarde were on this podcast to beso much better, I know, I
know. Yeah. So um,anyway, you kind of you know,
as a as a as a lender, right, and I even like,

(14:41):
you know, women women in thewestern world or in the privileged world,
Um, you know, we needways to access meaningful opportunities, right to
lift up our sisters around the world. And so you know it is kind
of cool as it to be conit are a lender, right, You're
not a donor, you're not asavior. You're a lender, and you're

(15:03):
you're actively investing in these other women. So often, you know, you're
giving this chance to kind of seelike which potential lendes kind of match your
your priority giving areas, priority lendingareas, and you can invest in any
level, right like you can investtwenty five dollars, you can invest two
hundred and fifty dollars, and thislittle micro loan goes out and often it's

(15:26):
usually form The big categories I sawwere women who are going for education,
right like, um there, andit's usually administrative education so that they can
gain an entry level job in sortof the quote unquote white color world farm
equipment. And often it's you know, they've profiled women wives and mothers who
are trying to raise money for farmequipment for their husbands and sons in order

(15:50):
to cultivate and make money off theirland. And then also these little badegas
or where women are raising and it'sa really amazing opportunity to personally micro invest
and that feels like something that's meaningfulbecause not all of us have access to

(16:10):
doing work on the UN Commission onthe Status of Women, which I was
really impressed with. Yeah, no, it's amazing they're doing, They have
done and are doing continue to doamazing work. And you know, we
had we spoke with a college studentwho is working with the Clinton Global Foundation
with a small project on women andgirls, helping to provide education and menstrual

(16:33):
products to women in kind of ruralIndia, and those projects are also amazingly
helpful and useful, and they're they'restill micro projects, and she was able
to create you know, she createdit on her own campus, and then
so many people were interested that thatthey started creating similar projects on other campuses

(16:55):
throughout the world, actually in Englandwhere they also are dealing with this issue
of taxation of menstrual products, andother European countries, and so it was
actually really heartening to see that notonly what was there just this college student
who was really interested in this,who was who was helping provide this kind
of support and this infrastructure for it, but that she was also getting support

(17:19):
from organizations like the Clinton Global Initiative. Yeah have you seen yet? Period
end of sentence. I have not, And if you and if any of
our listeners have not yet seen it, they should immediately look at it.
First of all, who is itthat went to our college? Who worked
on it? Yes, I knowthere's a more recent alumna who Yeah,

(17:41):
there's a recent alumna who was,yeah, executive producer or something on the
film, which is amazing. Women'scolleges are amazing. But second of all,
it deals with this issue. Yeah, yeah, and micro projects.
So that was that was one ofthe things that really that when I was
kind of reading on the status ofwomen, that micro finance has fulfilled its

(18:03):
promise and I'm so pleased to seeit flourish and as it as women have
gained more economic stability and empowerment,they are making more and more gains globally
in the policy sphere. Right.I mean, it's a very basic principle
of oppression. If you're sitting aroundall day while not sitting around but if
you're working very hard all day,and while you are consistently working hard to

(18:29):
feed your family, you're also terrifiedthat you're about to be, you know,
in a violent situation. What doesthat do to you? You know
what happens to you? And soeconomic stability has led to this policy stability
and hopefully is laying and I thinkthere's a case that it's laying the groundwork
for massive changes for women. Onecan only hope that that is the case.

(18:53):
I know I'm so jaded and cynical, but speaking of periods, I
want to talk a little bit aboutthe bill that I just today got an
email about but I've seen it overthe last couple of weeks that's being proposed
about menstrual products. Do you knowanything about this? I read like summary

(19:15):
on it, right, is thisthat well, there's a good one and
a bad one. Good one?Yeah, that's a great question. So
there's a couple of states that areare proposing tax exemption bills on menstrual products,
which, you know, let's behonest, mentural products are not like

(19:36):
a luxury item. They're not somethingthat but it just because half of the
population uses them in the other halfof the population doesn't doesn't mean that it's
a luxury that we get periods,and it's it's misogynistic to believe that,
like women should have to pay forthis because it's EAD's curse. Uh,
we don't actually live in a youknow, church state. And are you

(19:59):
sure about that? Oh no,I'm not sure. I'm not actually sure
about that. It's a church runstate. But I did see something today,
Grace Mean Congressman Grace Meang has introducedthe Menstrual Equity for All Act of
twenty nineteen, and it's the firstcomprehensive bill of its kind that would,

(20:19):
among its presivisions, ensure free menstrualhydrain products are available for students, low
income individuals, homeless individuals, andpeople who are incarcerated, those working for
large employers, and in all federalpublic buildings. So like the machines that
they have on the wall in publicbuildings, they would be free, and
people who are in prison would getfree. I mean, because that's apparently

(20:42):
I've never been in prison. Thisis my privilege talking. But I did
not know until I watched Oranges TheNew Black that which is so like white
woman of me, Like it's soyeah, that that was an issue for
incarcerated women, right, No,I I think I can get behind that
bill. And you know, mynext question is, does does EBT should

(21:04):
obviously cover you know, hygiene products? Right? Yeah? Well, or
you know, if you're paying forhygiene products with an EBT, then it
automatically like you don't actually have topay for it, right, I mean,
if you're receiving government assistance, there'sno reason why you should be paying
for hygiene products feminine, right,I guess menstrual hygiene products, let's call

(21:26):
it that, right, Right.I can get behind that and just access
it kind of you can expand itout to to access in birth control,
to birth control in general. Right. It's a that's a sticky, thorny
subject, right, because then we'rekind of saying, hey, what's the
line between saying, hey, youknow, women who are experiencing poverty,

(21:48):
you shouldn't have kids, or youknow, like here's free birth control versus
women who aren't experiencing poverty, youknow, can breed away it like that.
That to me is sticky, Butto me it kind of also boils
down to no matter what your incomelevel is, you should have the absolute
control over your reproduction. Agreed.I absolutely agree with you. And maybe

(22:14):
it comes down to if you havethe ability to pay for it, maybe
you pay for it and help supportthe costs of people who don't have the
ability. I mean, then itbecomes almost again like this kind of micro
loan that you you are donating sothat so that other people can have the
same privileges that you have, right, which gets back circles back to that
whole why don't we see other womenas allies in the struggle, right,

(22:40):
instead of like looking down at themand being like, well, she couldn't
afford it, she shouldn't have hadbabies, you know, Like there's this
vindictiveness that women with more privilege exerciseon those that they see as sort of
making bad choices, instead of understandingall of us living under this system of
oppression that is designed to create badchoices for women. I absolutely agree with

(23:03):
you. I mean, and ifwe look at where was it recently that
they just changed their abortion law tomake it like the most restrictive abortion law
in the United States. One ofthe thing was like Alabama, I think
it was Alabama. I just sawone in Tennessee that was like a two
week bill stop that you're pregnant intoright, No, but like so for
instance, you know, you couldsee some of these menstrual equality bills and

(23:27):
you know, like the mandated vastsectomy bills or whatever. I love it
because it's basically doing this hazing thatthe anti choice movement has been doing to
us for so long. Right,it's like, what not even ridiculousness,
because I don't think it's ridiculous,but some people would like what sort of
way out their policies can the prochoice movement throw up that just uses other

(23:51):
people's you know, it uses theopposition's time and energy so that they don't
have time to get traction. Yeah, right, So that's I think that's
what a lot of these bills are. I mean, back in the day
when we had some kind of balanceon the Supreme Court, it wouldn't have
been as terrifying, right because wewould have been like, well, that
is a clear intrusion on row.All of the stuff that's happening now in

(24:11):
the states, right that are sorestrictive. It's not a coincidence that is
happening now. Like they've been floatingthese bills, but they haven't gotten anywhere
because everyone knows that like it wouldget up to any you know, like
any kind of ROW test would defeatthese bills, but they know that that
is not the case anymore, right, Well, and then the other thing

(24:33):
is, you know, we ifROW got overturned, then it goes back
to the states to make the decisionabout what their law is going to be.
And so they're quickly passing these lawsvery like very strict laws or really
open laws depending on the state,so that there is a law on the
books if ROW gets overturned. Andso you know, right, I mean

(24:55):
I could see I would see likeof all of these ridiculous cases, I
would see I mean the Alabama one, what was that six weeks? I
think that's right. Six weeks couldbe a good ROW test, but the
two weeks is just ridiculous, right, Like six weeks is obviously placing an
undue burden, and you know thatthat's what And it's like it's kind of

(25:15):
curious because you have to drill downon what does it mean to overturn ROW?
Right, They're not going to likerehear the case. So what's going
to happen is one of these casesis going to float its way up through
the district courts and the circuit courtsand um, and it's going to get
up there and and that's the question, right that's going to be debated is
does a six week bill place anundue burden on a women's right to choose?

(25:42):
Help me? Remember the trap billthat was struck down was Kavanaugh on
the court when they struck down theTexas trap bill. I am not certain
me right, So that was kindof encouraging right to choice folks because the
trap laws, which basically are thiskind of grouping of restrictive laws on abortion

(26:07):
clinics, right, like the hallwayshave to be x amount, Why the
door always have to be x amount? Why the sort of the providers have
to have admitting privileges at a localhospital. Right. It's this package of
laws that are placed, again,an undue burden on the abortion providers.
But anyway, everyone was really worriedbecause that floated all the way up to
the Supreme Court after Trump was electedand they struck it down. Yeah,

(26:32):
so it was it was twenty sixteenis when the Supreme Court ruled against the
Texas trap law. But you know, there are other other laws that are
starting to come up and right.So the question is in a Kavanaugh court,
will we be able to protect rowsure? And if you look at
you know, narrow pro choice America. Dot org has a great map that

(26:56):
shows where there are trap laws,and basically every state except for Montana,
which is surprising, Oregon, Colorado, West Virginia also surprising, Vermont and
New Hampshire have laws like this.M. Yeah, it's it's the erosion
of road, it's the erosion ofreproductive rights. Right, It's never going

(27:19):
to be one big sweeping although itcould be one big sweeping decision, which
is also a little terrifying. Yeah. I mean the crazy news is like
we kind of have Roberts now right, Like, yeah, I think it
was surprising to a lot of peoplethat he is. I mean, I
think personally he is fairly fairly conservative, but I think judicially he seems to

(27:42):
be at least relatively as siding withthe wanting to provide ways that the Supreme
Court can help support lawmakers. MYeah. I think my reading and everyone,
you know, it's kind of likereading through a piece of wax paper
when it comes to the word.But you know, what's coming down is
a lot of people are saying thathe is most interested in preserving judicial autonomy.

(28:07):
Yeah, I agreed, agreed,which you know that's good. I
mean that I can get behind that. Yeah. So before we you know,
finish out today, is there anyone specific thing that you would want
our listeners to like, aside frommicro lending and how that helps support like

(28:29):
globally women globally and going and watchingPeriod, which is an amazing film,
and writing your congress person and lettingthem know that they should be supporting,
um, the Menstruation Equality Menstrual ProductEquality Act that is being proposed. What
should people be doing right now toresist the patriarchy? Uh? Well,

(28:56):
I have to say a really itwas informative and encouraging and discouraging as well.
But I really enjoyed reading the AnnualReport from the UN Commission on the
Status of Women UM. It coveredpolicy, it covered finance, and it
covered violence against women UM and itwas it was empowering to see the policy

(29:19):
gains right like the blue wave thatcame through the United States is being replicated
on a global level UM. Andthat that is something that is an enormously
hopeful thing to see right through thequote unquote developing world all the way up
through you know, the white Westernworld, women are making policy gains.

(29:42):
Um, And of course there's alwaysthere's always backslide, right, there's always
places where that's not going to happen, and of course we understand that those
are the places that are most destabilized. Right. So um, reading about
the you know, the Muslim Rahngawomen, right, they are not making
policy gains right now. Women inSyria are not making policy gains right now.

(30:03):
Women and yeomen are not making policygains right now. But overall globally,
you know, women are through thisaccess. So in the last ten
years women we've gone from sixty onemillion women who had no access to education
to only thirty five million women.That's amazing access to education in ten years,

(30:23):
right, we've had that gap andthat is you know, an enormous
and enormous thing. So you know, there are more and more countries that
are outlawing spousal rape, right,Like it's kind of a it's a trend
that's sweeping the world, right,Like, I mean, I wish that
our audience could see, like merolling my eyes about how this is even

(30:45):
this thing? Yeah yeah, right, So now there are only thirty two
countries where spousal rape is okay,and we're now at in a staggering fact
that two thirds of all countries haveoutlawed domestic violence. Now, let's remember
or that thirty three percent of countriesin the world still have no laws on
the books that say it is notokay to like violently assault your work wife.

(31:11):
Right. Yeah, I guess itfelt like a mixed bag, right,
Like I feel after you know,twenty years of thinking about this and
kind of seeing what's going on,I feel more hopeful for women. And
the status of women is, youknow, kind of better than it's ever
been in a lot of ways,and yet we still see, you know,
these kind of conditions. And itjust made me really think, like

(31:34):
it was terribly sad to see thestatus of women globally and to understand that
we are globally oppressed under this patriarchalsystem, right, and there are no
true matriarchies, and you kind ofwonder, like are men and women really
born equally? Like is there acase to be made for men's dominance?
Right? And then you think aboutwhy women are in a disadvantaged position,

(31:59):
and it's because it's like physical andsexual violence is the way that women are
held down, right, And sowhen you think about that, you're like,
oh, no, it's not justsome kind of primacy of guys,
right, It's a systemic, likea violent oppression of women that's going on.
So I definitely I would. Ithink reading up on the status of

(32:20):
women in the world was enormously hopefulto me, enormously depressing to me,
but again helped me reconnect to alarger understanding of the place that I'm in.
I'll post the link to that inthe show notes so that people can
start reading, hunker down, andfigure out what they can do, both
locally and globally. Also, supportyour local female candidates for stuff. Don't

(32:46):
let creepy dudes who inappropriately like smellpeople's hair become the de facto leaders of
your parties and your local elections.Right. And they're like, but he
does it to men, to you, and you're like, there's no such
thing as reverse sexism. It doesn'thave the same effect. It doesn't matter
that he does it to men becauseit's creepy period, right, unwanted touching,

(33:10):
I mean the hair stroking, likelittle girls whose hair he's struck it,
Like, I get he's like totallydoing it as a paternalistic thing,
but like it's a paternalistic thing,and so therefore it is part of this
like patriarchal control over women that heis exerting, and he just doesn't get
it. Yeah, and it's notthe same when he does it to little
boys as when he does it tolittle girls. There's just like a different

(33:32):
entry point for the effects of thesebehaviors. Well, and not only that,
the language that goes around with it. He's like, oh, you
better lock the doors when this onegets older, you're going to be fighting
them back, Like, you knowwhat, stop sexualizing women, seriously,
stop it just kids, Just kids, man, they're below the age of
consent, don't you. Well yeah, stop sexualizing kids period, Like I

(33:52):
don't care, but like stop justusing women as like sexual objects, Like
we're a hell of a lot morethan that. Yes, Yeah, Well,
thank you so much for joining mefor this conversation about what's going on
today and how we can like fightthe power. Like I said, the
information will be in the show notes. If you want to follow Amy on

(34:15):
Twitter because she's hilarious. Amy,what's your Twitter handle? It's at Amy
Dreyer. Amy d r A ye R so simple, perfect. Thanks
for joining us. If you wantto follow us online, we're available at
she who Persisted dot com. We'reon Facebook, we're on Twitter, we're
on Insta. You can find usjust search for she who Persisted. Thank

(34:37):
you, and stay nasty by