#BuddyReads Review of The God of the Woods | Book Chat - Shelf Addiction Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, book lovers, Welcome back to shelf Addiction, the podcast
where we dive deep into the pages of thriller and
fantasy reads. I'm your host, Tamara, and today we are
cracking open our April buddy read, interesting thriller that we
may have a unpopular opinion about. But first, heads up.
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(00:25):
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(00:47):
and don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review
wherever you're listening. Speaking of community, I am thrilled to
welcome back my thriller mystery co host Classy from the
Bookish Virtual Assistant. Welcome back, Classy, Kay, Tammar, how are
you doing okay?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
I'm like happy Spring. We're trying to get there.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Michigan doesn't know it's spring.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
I know, I heard about y'all weather. We don't either,
but it's winter again. Right now.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Okay, are you ready to talk about today's book?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Unfortunately, yes, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
So you guys, you can find the links for both
Classy and I for all of our socials in the
show notes. So clickity, click around, follow us do all
the things. We appreciate you for doing that. We don't
have shelf updates today, so we're just gonna jump right
into the discussion. Today we are discussing the book The
God of the Woods, written by Liz Moore. The audiobook
is narrated by Saskia Marleveld, published on July second, twenty

(01:43):
twenty four, by Riverhead Books and Penguin Audio. The paperback
is four hundred and ninety pages and the unabridged audio
is fourteen hours and thirty five minutes. Classy, would you
kindly share the synopsis?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yes, Early mornings nineteen seventy five, a camp counselor discovers
an empty bunk its occupant, Barbara van Leleir, has gone missing.
Barbara isn't just any thirteen year old. She's the daughter
of the family that owns the summer camp and employs
most of the region's residents. And this isn't the first

(02:19):
time a Van Leer child has disappeared. Barbara's older brother
similarly vanished fourteen years ago, never to be found. As
a panic search begins, a thrilling drama unfolds, chasing down
the layered secrets of the Van Leir family in the
blue collar community Working in its shadows, Moore's multi threaded

(02:41):
story invites readers into a rich and gripping dynasty of
secrets and second chances. It is Moore's most ambitious and
wide reaching novel yet.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, that's a nice way to put it. Ambitious and
wide reaching reach. Okay, it's reaching for something so high level.
When you finished the book, what did you think?

Speaker 2 (03:10):
I felt like, you know, the premise of having two
children from the same family going missing within what like
a fifteen year time period, it was quite interesting. It
kind of drew me in at first, okay, and then
you know, each chapter it kept, you know, unveiling things
about the Van Leer family, that blue collar community and

(03:33):
all their secrets, and it just became too much for me.
It was long and drawn out. Fun fact, there were
forty eight named characters in this book. Oh forty Not
all of them had you know, you know, great character development,

(03:59):
but there were forty named characters, and I think I
remember saying that to you, like, there's too many people
in here, because when you start naming characters like that
as a reader, and then this book, I'm just like,
so who's important? And I'm like I got to remember
this one and that one. And then you come back
and they would mention Carl somebody and I'm like, who's God? Yeah,

(04:23):
which one is Carl? You know? So I started tuning
out after a while, you know, after she started dropping
all these names, because I'm like, at one point, is
she naming every child from the summer camp? But it
was also a good story about I felt like, here
we are again with another story, like we just read

(04:45):
last month. There's another story that delves into the consequences
of lies and what happens when you don't take action
with these lies that you tell. Yeah, so I'm gonna effect. Yeah,
so these you know. I was like, you know, and
I was like, hmm, we just did a story like this, okay,

(05:05):
But yeah, it was it was a sad story to
it at some point, because you know this here you
have this family with all this money and children who
were not loved.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, so high level. I thought, okay, My
first inclination is to say I thought it would be better.
Even though I thought that I was okay with the
ending because I like a realistic ending, and it wasn't

(05:37):
happily ever after, which fit the tone of the book,
because this is really almost like a literary mystery almost definitely.
It's definitely not a thriller in the traditional sense, or
not even a traditional mystery. There was a lot of
family dynamics going on and with the history of it, like,

(06:00):
you know, we get to span decades and we learn
about the mom in this book and how she grew
up and how she was basically married off to an adult.
So it's a lot going on, a lot to like
kind of mull over and think like, well, are these
people victims of their circumstance, like the women here, the women?

(06:26):
You know, is this Barbara trying to escape a horrible
repeat of her mother. I mean, she was about to
get with this guy that's you know, very wealthy and
very shitty. So yeah, I don't know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
overall it was it was fine enough. I yeah, let's
let's move on. I don't have anything else nice to say.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Now, but You're right, you know this, this definitely wasn't
your traditional thriller mystery. It did have a lot of
family dramas, some historical you know pieces. Liz does write
in a literary she does have that literary pen to
her to her writing style. I totally agree with that.

(07:09):
And I do like the fact that you brought in,
you know, the family drama, because this could be definitely
a subgenre that that family drama part. So, but yeah,
it wasn't. It wasn't horrible, but I did begin to
tune out after a while, which I felt like I

(07:33):
was at the ninety three percent mark and I'm just like,
but something is still missing. You got come on, wrap
this up, you know, because Barbara still hasn't been found
or there has not There wasn't a conclusion. And granted
it was done within that i'll say five to the

(07:57):
seven percent mark, but I'm just like you guys, you
you drug me out this whole damn time. Yeah, and
here we are.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
So it seemed like Barbara's disappearance took second seat to
Bear's mystery being solved. It flipped a little bit, so
it seemed like, oh, no, Barbara's gone to the mom
and everything that happened with Bear. Yeah, what's up?

Speaker 2 (08:31):
No, you're right. Just like when you said that, it
just a light clicked in my head because when you
said how Barbara's story took second place, it kind of
ties into Barbara was a replacement child.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
She was remember her father said, we only need one
mm hmm, and he's a boy, so we're good to go.
No more.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yep, we got our air yep. And when Bear died
or disappeared, he wanted to replace, and she was a
replacement child. And and then this story, Liz basically kind
of did the same thing, replaced Barbara's story with Bear's disappearance.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, wow, Yeah, Yeah, that was like the biggest chunk
of it. Even through like you said, you were about
ninety three percent, and we still didn't know what the
hell happened to Barbara at that point.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
No, and we found out that, right, we found out
what happened to Bear.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, and all the details from two three points of
you felt like we had to see it from the dad,
what's TJ's dad. We had to see from her. We
had to like talk, I mean, we talked all around
what happened that night?

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I mean we even found. We even found it
from from the so called serial killer who escaped you know,
we even heard it from his POV. We did, yeah,
from everybody's pov, Bear who had gone missing with thirteen
fourteen years prior.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Which that was strange. Yeah. I just say that little
insertion of that guy like trying to like do some
kind of psycho It felt like it.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Came out of a movie.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like, what's his infatuation with this? You know, investigator?
Where is this coming from? He's asking her questions like
are you a virgin? And stuff? I'm like, what is happening?
What does this? Like?

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Hello? Clarius? Right? But I did another fun fact that
I found out. This story was inspired by Liz during
her time in the Adirondacks, Okay, and it was they said,
it's also a bit of historical fiction because there was

(10:54):
a serial killer in the Adirondacks in the nineteen seventies,
Robert Gear. His story was the inspiration for the secondary character,
Jacob Sluter, who they thought possibly had killed Bear. But
in this story, Jacob happened to witness someone bearing Bear

(11:18):
in the in the woods. So yeah, but yeah, so
interesting why he came And that's how he became a
secondary character, but it was it was really weird.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Hm. Well, you know, I guess it was kind of
okay because you know, the kids were telling stories about
the guy and it kind of tied into the campy thing,
but it just did turn strange when that happened. Like why,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
I felt like she was trying to do what I'm
just gonna go back to, you know, our previous book
because it's so still pretty fresh in my mind, that
slight of hand that John Mars did and how well
he did it, And I felt like she was trying
to do that with this story where she was trying
to throw us off with the possible the possible suspects.

(12:14):
You know, was it John Paul, was it Louisa? Was
it Teaj? Was it Grandpa? You know? All these things?
And I think, you know, she didn't. She's not good
with that. She was good with character development. I mean,
we did learn a lot about the characters, which is

(12:34):
probably why it took five hundred pages or almost five hundred,
but that sleight of hand, she really didn't. I never
really felt like I knew exactly who the killer was.
But I also felt like at some point I was like,

(12:56):
there's got to be one of them. You got fifty eleven,
so you know, fifty characters.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's one of them.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
And at one point I was like, m I won't
figure it out. At the end, I didn't even care to,
like you know how, sometimes we'd be like, oh, I knew.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, but I'm just like you know how they say,
you know, it's twenty twenty after the fact, like hindsight,
it's twenty twenty because now I think about how much
of Alice's story and history we got. Obviously it's her fault,
obviously because unreliable, Well why do we need to know
so much about her? What's the author trying to make

(13:35):
us feel bad for her? So when we found out
what she did, we wouldn't be like that, you know.
So yeah, it was like she was right there in
front of us the whole time, and between her constantly
popping pills, pills that made her unreliable. She couldn't remember shit,
she was seeing stuff, she was hearing her son like, Okay,

(13:55):
clearly she'd being chased by a ghost.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
She don't remember, right, yeah, but right, and okay, So
she did do well with that sleight of hand where
she made it seem like this mother is just a
grieving mother who is deeply depressed.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
I'll give her that. Now.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's why, that's why she that's why we all should
have known she was the one that had a hand
in her son's stuff. Because your daughter is missing, and
all you can think about is your son still, can
you focus on what's happening right now?

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, Well, they immediately they immediately kind of put her
away when the daughter went missing.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
They said, take these pills and even.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Back to Albany, right, her nice little place in Albany
where she heard Bear's voice better.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
They sent her to what a little hospital of some type.
I guess in those days, you can be like, hey,
my wife is acting a little off. She needs some
time away, please admit her, and they do it.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah. Yeah, the women treat and that was a another
theme in this book is you know, the treatment of
women in the seventies.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know how the sixties, in the seventies, mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, but you know this book was Yeah, this book
was right, because this book was it started in the sixties. Well,
Bear went missing in the sixties, Barbara in the seventies,
So yeah, you're right, the sixties and the seventies and
how they, you know, were really treated less than But
now that we want to talk about these women, let
me talk about that dirty ass sister Delphie. I wouldn't

(15:37):
have stood in that door.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I know I'd have been all over her ass. But
you know what they said. What it was Alice was
scared of what being divorce would look like. What kind
of money I forget gonna take care of me?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:54):
I forgot, I forgot how yeh room's already? Can I
deal with this?

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Right? I've been dealing with this all this time, but
just that moment, just to see them, You've laying up
with her. You have never laid up with me. So
her hair wait a hairs fanned out? Now she painted
a beautiful picture. I will give Liz that she painted
a beautiful picture.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Well, her sister says it's nice. Exactly what it looks
like either, So if we think about it. So I
just checked the dates when we learned about Alice getting at,
you know, meeting him. It was in the fifties and
she was in fricking high school. Do you remember?

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Oh? Yeah, she was like seventeen, she was going to prom.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Right, Yeah, it was like her reveal or some bullshit.
I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
They had money. Yeah, In fact, Alice's family I think
had more money than the van leaders.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, so I think the sister, she said back then
they were sleeping together off and on, and the sister
was also kind of married off to someone she didn't
think she would actually want to be with, and they
ended up being friends or something.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
They grew right, it was like an open kind of
it almost was like an open marriage. They did whatever
the heck they wanted.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
And I think I agree with you. It's very mean
what she did to her own sister, but being knowing
their history and how like, for example, her sister would
say to Alice, like, don't you feel like we didn't
have anything to work toward, anything to do, Like, you know,

(17:31):
we missed out, don't you. You know, instead of just
being a little zombie who just follows your husband's demands,
you know. So they it's like you cannot make rite
what she did. But it doesn't surprise me at all.
And the lack of response doesn't surprise me at all.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, it doesn't. But in that moment, yeah, I'm just
like looking at her, like just snatch her up by
all that hair fanned out. But like you said, she
only knew one other person who was divorced, and that
person basically that kind of fell off the face of
the earth. A woman did with the guy.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
He stayed around with his new woman.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, he keeps a friend like it's no different than
what I'm already living.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, yeah, which is wild. I guess that was the time.
I probably would have been an old maid back then,
because I don't think I could tolerate that.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah. Well, and but you know, she didn't even have
the opportunity. She married him at eighteen what nine months
later she had the baby. She was not educated. He
made her feel like a piece of shit.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
He treated her like a parental figure, the way he
talked down to her. Yeah, he insulted her on a
regular basis. She basically started drinking because he told her,
you're boring as fuck without alcohol, So do something about that.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah. She was just there. She was just there to
produce an air. That was it. She was beautiful, she
was and according to the story, she was more beautiful
than Delphine. Yes, so she was there to produce an air.
Because even when the baby was born, Peter too was like,
let me check him. Yeah, gotta be You're gonna be strong,

(19:17):
he's gonna be tall. Yep, we got, we got what
we wanted.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
I'm sure he chucked the other little head too. Just
make sure he's gonna have a big one because family jeans.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
I gotta make sure they're hanging right.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's crazy, like she literally was like a cow. And
then when she had the kid, he would not let
her even take care of the child. He's got day
and night nanny, and he talked shit to her every
time she tried to get up and check on her baby,
like get out of here, go to bed, like what
is woll Like. He's abusive to her, even though she

(19:58):
says she even says she was kinda scared of him,
even though he actually hadn't done anything. So he's definitely
verbally abusive and mostly abusive, and probably borderline physical abusive.
He probably it sounded like he came close a couple
of times, ye, or she felt actual fear about him.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, I think she right, because there were times where
it implied that she made sure she was out of
his way, like you know, like don't upset him, don't
upset him. You don't know, but I felt like he
was afraid that she was gonna make the baby into
a woos you know, too soft, because you know, the

(20:40):
boy loved nature. He was a good He was a
very mild mannered, good natured kid. You know, he didn't
he wasn't the rough housing type of boy.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah. I think it's just history. This is how I
was raised. This is how my Sonmo be raised. Yeah,
because look how great I turned out. This is what's happening. Yeah,
periods in this family.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
I know. And you guys like idiot. Yeah, and it
was like that was the thing for these people with money.
You know, John Paul did the same thing. He was
abusive to women, but he can ast the line.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
He yeah, he beat that woman's ass, like and she
took him back. I could not believe it. Yeah, what
was her name, not Tracy, but.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Louise, but Louise.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yes, I could not believe it. I said, she's so desperate.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, and that's what and he had promised her. Yeah,
so he she saw a life much better than what
her mother had. Granted, he was getting that ass beat.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Is it worth it? I mean your little brother, So.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, that's what she was trying to do to take
him gonna get it. I'm gonna get Jesse out of here.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
He was misguided because guess what the little brother give
two ships. He's about to smoke this weed. He's about
to hang out where he want to go. He's got
messed like weed at that young I guess, I guess.
So he just tried to get away. He's trying to
be away from his mother.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, anything to escape escape.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah. So his mother is obviously an addict of some kind.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
So yeah, he's free to do as he pleases. I mean, hell,
he didn't even have food. Remember, She's like, go and
get food on my credit at the store. He didn't
know what to get. It was sad, it was unfortunate,
but that did not surprise me at all. She's thinking, oh,
I'm gonna save us, and he's like, no, why don't
you do something like go to school, brow some money, save.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yourself, save yourself basically right, basically out of the mouth
of babe, save yourself. We're good over here. He was like,
let mama be a mama for a change, Like, see.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Like, I got this under control, is fine?

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Leave me alone as in front of him than she does.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, I don't know. It was crazy. So it was
a lot of relationship drama for everybody. I mean, hell,
even the detective had to deal with sexism on the job.
They're calling her like like basically patterner on the shoulder.
You're gonna be okay, can you can you answer these
get these questions answered by yourself? Do you need me

(23:31):
to hold your hand? Yeah, like you got a mouth
on you, honey. All the women were dealing with it
in this book, left and right kept coming.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yeah, because even Luis's dad, like her dad didn't even
want her to move out of the house. And she
was staying in a hotel because her commute was a
two hour commute of Schenectady, and she stayed at a
hotel and the dad came up there to pick her up.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Judy, Yes, yeah, yeah. When she went to the hotel,
she called her house you know back in the day
where you got to call people's houses with landlines, and
she told her mother, don't tell dad, I'm in a hotel.
So the mom's like, oh, she's at her friend's house.
Because I'm like, you're a full ass adult with imagine
a gun. And he's like, what the hell is this?

(24:25):
What world is this? A world. I'm glad I was
not alive. Yeah, I was not present at this point
in time, because if I was an adult, I'd be TJ.
I'd be off somewhere by myself, not nothing with any
of these people, like get out of here.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, and you know, and some of the other things
that and now that you bring up TJ. You know,
some of the other things that Liz was trying to
bring into play was you know, sexuality, you know with TJ.
You know, because it wasn't clear that t J was

(25:07):
lesbian or not, but she was definitely oh perform, Yeah,
she right, she was non conforming. You know, who's to
say if she liked men or women. But then right,
and then you had Walter who was in was basically

(25:28):
in love with his his bunk mate Lowell, and you know,
so you know, and those little implications of.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
You know, had a crush on TJ. She's straight, she
was with a man, or she might have thought she
was straight, but when she started.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
She said she felt a little desire for her because
of because of TJ's confidence. You know, it was it
was something about TJ that just drew her in and
you know, uh, those type of things happen in camp,
you know, like that coming of age and discovery. And
because even at one point Tracy even said, I like Barbara,

(26:11):
but you know it wasn't in But it was that
confidence that she had in her. So I saw where
Liz was trying to, you know, touch on those little
those little stories. She didn't go deep. She kind of
like it was surface level, but she kept and she's like,
let me back up out it because you know, this
might not be my strong suit.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
So or the audience. I don't know. I don't know whytch.
You you know, she didn't have to go in with
so many characters. She could have just did it with
one fully and honestly and did a good job with it.
Instead of like, oh this guy kind of likes this kid,
this woman may like women. I don't know. Maybe it's

(26:54):
just teach this. Maybe I mean, just just go in
with one.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
I'm not kidding. I was like writing down all the
damn names because I was like, Okay, Jacob, Tracy, Victor, Barbara.
I was like Danny Hayes, who some somebody's gotta be
important because she's naming all these people. But yeah, she didn't.
It was it could have just been It's just a

(27:20):
bunch of people, key players, key players. But again it
was camp. But I mean half these people weren't all
the camp people. It was all the historical family people.
So but yeah, but overall, like when we started with
this book, the ratings and the ratings are still high,
like four point one five. And I had and I

(27:42):
had mentioned in our last book club meeting that oh
I heard heard rave reviews. They were like, just stick
it out. It's a long story, but stick it out.
It's so good. And I'm like, okay, okay. And I
even told you, I'm like, I'm liking it, and I
did at one point. I can really see this being
I could see this being a limited series television show.

(28:05):
Could I probably would have enjoyed this better visually than
on the page and listening.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Not only are the ratings good, it actually won the
twenty twenty four Reader's Favorite Mystery and Thriller on good Reads.
It won the good Read's Choice Award last year. So
that surprises me a little bit. But I guess I
kind of, you know, leave it up to us to

(28:36):
pick something that is a fan favorite and we not
love it. That just is something that is so typical right, typical.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yes, yes, yes, and we were like okay, because we
read was it what was her first book, Long River,
Long Bright River?

Speaker 1 (28:53):
I don't know was that her book or someone else's book.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
I don't know it was her book.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
We didn't love that either.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Long Bright River. Yeah, I remember it moved a made
a television.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Show this That show was not that good job.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
And we didn't like it either. Yeah, we didn't like
it either.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, that was that was her book.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
And we were like, okay, let's try to I gave
it a too as well.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
I just checked yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
We were yeah. And it was more of a like
a police procedural come to I found out that she's
a professor took she's a professor of some MFA program
at is it Temple? I think she mentions it at
the end of the story. I think it is Temple University.
But yeah, Long Break. She did a little better I

(29:42):
think maybe with this one than Long Wrighte River. But
I just popularity of this four hundred and nights ratings,
My goodness, a lot of people have read this. Damn.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think maybe Liz More is just not for me.
Her writing style is not for me, So not to
say that it's bad per se. I think it's just
not my flavor.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
I'm not her audience.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, and I don't, you know, as we'll talk about
more before we you know, when we rated at the end.
I don't hate the book, but like you, I think
I liked it better than Long Bright River.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
So it is a step in the right direction, but
not enough for me to try her for a third time.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yes, exactly, That's how I'm feeling too. I don't think
I'm her audience, and I'm okay like she. She apparently
loves police procedurals and detective kind of stories, and I'm
okay with that. I do too, But it's just something
writing style.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
It's yeh, a use of character.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
So if we want to compare in contrash, Wait, let's
take a quick break. You guys check out these commercials
by listening to those who are supporting the podcast. We
appreciate you for doing that. Don't forget to pick up
a copy of the book review Journal available on Amazon
right now. The link is in the show notes. When
we come back, we'll finish this conversation, we'll rate the book.
We'll talk a little bit about the audio narrator, and

(31:09):
we'll share with you what's next. Stay with us, Welcome back, guys.
So what I was trying to say, if we can
compare the type of characters to Long Bright River, it's
similar in that she likes to go have a lot

(31:31):
of characters. Long Bright River had a lot of characters too,
not as many as this, but it had a lot
of characters. There's a lot of history, and I find
I don't quote me because I'm not sure, but it
might have also been told in that back and forth
in time non linear storytelling as well. It was, so
that is also her thing, and I don't mind not

(31:53):
non linear storytelling, but for some reason, maybe it's the
combination of the sleepy town characters paired with that, it
just makes for slow reading to me. So I would
say this book also was not fast paced at all.

(32:15):
I was trying to sprint to the finish line to
finish this book. I listened to seventy five percent of
this book on two X and then I tried two
point five but I couldn't take it. So I had
to knock it back down because I was like, I
need this to be done now.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
And it was one narrator and all these characters, and
she tried her best, she really did, but yeah, it
was it was she does she likes to do these
little little towns, small community money because in long Bright

(32:58):
River it was, you know, she went back and forth
between her sister and her sister's drug addiction and in
the present time and you know, and different things like that.
But you're right, she's not I'm not her audience. Her
writing is not horrible, it's just I'm just not her
her audience.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
So I also found another correlation between the two books.
And obviously spoiler alert, spoiler spoiler alert, and if you
don't want to hear about how lomp Bright River ended,
then skip the next thirty seconds, skip the next minute.
Actually right, But what's similar is that both of the
women were dead.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, she does not.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Like to kill them at the end women she does not,
So you are right, I'm like the ending was similar.
So like the sister went off like stay with the daddy,
hiding out, and in this book she like, I'm gonna
skip my ass over to an island, didn't hide out.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Until I because in the story it was like, well,
you know, when she's eighteen, she don't have to worry
about any rules. So yeah, just stay over here for
you know, four years.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, so there's definitely some lines to be drawn between
the two books. And I bet you her other books
are similar. They probably have a same vibe, the same
things happening, And I would I would be shocked if
the person was dead at the end.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I don't know. Drug addiction is a drug addiction is
a thing. Yeah, the sister was on drugs and was prostitution,
and this mom was, you know, and a child was
taken basically, well, the child was lost in this book,
but in Long Righte River, the child was taken away

(34:51):
or was supposed to be cared for until Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
But you know what, there was a prostitution in this
book too. It's just that they sold their daughter. Yeah,
it wasn't like the literal prostitution, but it was a
basically soldier, young ass daughter to this old man to marry.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, right, they were. He was eleven years older than her.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
And you know, Okay, if you're thirty, eleven years isn't
that bad. But if you're eighteeneen, that's bad. You have
not lived your life, like think about it.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
She basically came right out of high school.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yes, she lost her virginity to him. She only been
with him, and the experiences weren't great. Sounds like she
was having average at best, because you see how jealous
she was to see what she thought was a romantic scene.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
I know when he did show her love. Yeah, oh yeah,
my heart broke heart.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Oh y'all been married a decade. This is the first
time you had that kind of experience. That's so unfortunate. Unfortunate. Yeah,
so yeah, I feel like it's the same women being
mistreated all up in down the family tree.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah yeah, right, even even Peter three's mom. You know,
she she was pretty silent, you know, she she kind
of sat back.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Oh, Peter two's mom, the grandmother.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
That was married, Well, Peter four is Bear. Peter three's mom.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Oh, I thought that was Peter. Remember I thought that
the husband was Peter two. I don't know, I guess
I must have it wrong. So the grandfather is Peter two.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yes, because whenever, because remember when Grandpa called Bear, he
said Peter four, okay, and that's when Carl was like
and he told Carl I don't like him much. So
so yeah, so Peter three is his Alice is Barbara's dad.

(36:54):
But but the remember when they were interrogating Grandpa and
he was kind of saying, honey, you probably what two
and the wife was kind of like trying to say
stop it, don't don't do that to her, don't talk condescending,
and he basically he gave her all the information about

(37:14):
his wife. She had no voice basically. So yeah, it
was a continuous, continuous cycle.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
So they teach their sons how to treat the wives
and then and their children. So he is continuing a
cycle that has been learned. Yeah, and I guess now
because their son, the grandson is gone, that cycle ended,
especially now that you know Barbara was able to get

(37:44):
away from it.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Although I do feel bad for Barbara because I do
feel like she's still really close to home. She needs
to like leave the state. She needs to go somewhere
else so she can actually have a life, because she's
still a child. She's like a child living on her
own and being checked up on. And yes, yeah, so
what TJ's gonna bring you some books? Your ass is

(38:09):
gonna be uneducated when it comes down to it. Let's
keep it real. You're gonna be uncivilized. Uneducated. You need
to be gone so you can live a regular life without.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
The right start a new life somewhere not.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
In the woods. I find like that is bad, that's awful.
That's gonna be scary. Mary, Oh my god. So you
know that might be a good temporary situation, but the
goal for them should have been to get her on
the other side of the country or something something other
than that. Like, you gotta be kidding me. So this

(38:45):
girl is destined to live.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
In a wasn't educated either, did what she knew.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
I know, but she cared about her like she was
her daughter or a little sister. Wouldn't you want her
to be better than what you have?

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Like, why you her sticking around in this mug? Like
I don't understand. I understand. They could see her at
any time. Let's say one day they decided to go
across the lake for some stupid reason. Let's have a
picnic over here. I don't know she's right.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
There right because they have money.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
That seems silly to me, But I guess the dad
probably could die anytime. I don't know. He starts. Well,
they seem like they have good jeans. They hang around
for a long.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Time, you know, this is how her books.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
I just think it's so unfortunate. I'm like that ending,
and I understand, you know, wanting to have a realistic ending,
but that I don't know.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
For a fourteen year old, she's too realist. She's gonna
be I mean, it's not happily ever after, but is
it really really?

Speaker 1 (39:51):
No? Now, if she was eighteen and she graduated from
high school and then she wanted to do like summer
camp or she wanted to be a.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Even seventeen, yeah, I would have taken seventeen.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Like fourteen, depending on how when you turn fourteen you're
either in the eighth grade or the ninth grade. Yeah,
at fourteen, depending on what synopsis. I'm looking at the synopsis.
Now it's like, Barbara isn't just any thirteen years. Okay,
so she's in the eighth grade. She's probably in the
eighth grade. You didn't make it to high school. That's

(40:25):
crazy and inappropriate.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Mm hmm. Yeah, thirteen and you're and you were having
sex with.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
A twenty something year old. Yeah, he's outside, he's out
done with college. Remember they talked about it at that time.
He took him five years or six years to finish college.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yep, because he wanted to travel and live.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
So this guy is at least twenty four years old
at least, and that's assuming he went to college at
seventeen slash eighteen.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yep, so he's almost he's like eleven years older than her,
like her dad was to his mind disgusting.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, And what's messed up is because of how the
family operates. As soon as it would have been fine.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Because even an Annabelle who was younger, who was a
c I. T who was day was having sex with
him too. But they were like, oh, they're compatible. That's
all they cared about. They didn't care about these young
girls and how old are young they work. All they
saw was, you know what, we're gonna marry money? Is
gonna marry money?

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, yes, you keep it with the people, You keep
it in our community. So we can pass this money
along and the sons could take care of the business
and the wives can just be the wives.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
They can produce some airs, some more heirs.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
You know what, this the hand mastail all over again.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
The more we talk about it.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
You just raising the wives, right, And then you got
the it's crazy, he's crazy, Like you know, we can't
even just have some murder and death. We got to
have all this stuff served up with.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
It, some literary family drama.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
That's what it is. I mean, it's like old money
and this is how they act and it's all okay
in their world.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Right, and then we'll just get the workers to clean up. Well,
they'll clean up our I won't even say mistakes, you
know that our dirty deeds.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, yeah, Like think about like how long Louise dated him.
She dated him a long time and he knew he
didn't even give but he knew he would never marry her.
He knew he wouldn't. He came back, and that's what
made me so disgusted. He came back begging and pleading
to get back with her, knowing at that point he

(42:58):
should love to be because he wouldn't never marry her never.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeh, no, no, I mean even when the he introduced
her to the family, they were just like, you know,
she ain't but sex. He's just having sex with her.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
When she came up to the house and she needed help,
they're like, oh, they're about to arrest me, and that
his father said, good look luck, I'm sorry, closed the door.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
I was like, oh, poor babe.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Damn you learned hard lesson, didn't you.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah. Yeah, very sad, so sad.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, it's wild, It's absolutely wild. So, yeah, there was
a lot going on, There was a lot to dissect,
and I guess you know there there's an audience for
the book obviously. You know, a lot of people liked it.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yeah, a lot of people read this book too.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Yeah. Wow, Yeah, a lot of people read it and
liked it. So I think, okay, So if you've never
read Liz More before, and if you like, you know,
old money themes and along with that that treatment of women,

(44:16):
if you can tolerate it with a small mystery, family mystery,
more of a family mystery than like.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
A I don't know, like a regular yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, then you might give this a try.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Joy her into police procedural.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Kind of Yeah, it's light though it's a police procedural light.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, it's not.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, yeah, because we didn't spend enough time with the detectives.
I mean, she did have some FaceTime, she had her
own chapter, as Judy did. But I feel like with
a traditional police procedural, we're with them all the time
all the time, and the other people are kind of
the minor characters because they're trying to you know, like, well, Trent,

(45:04):
he's the main person.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
So yeah, it's in there, just like a little bit
of mysteries in there, a little bit of procedurals in there,
a little bit of family dramas in there, a little
bit of Yeah it's a little hodgepos.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah she was. Yeah, she tried to do some little
genre bending in here. Oh and it was it looks
like it was some kind of book club book or
that one little Okay, I'm just looking at some other
I think she was in that whatever, that book of
the month thing. I think her book may have been
in there too, so okay.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Oh so yeah, just look at she's one of some
awards as well for this book. I don't know if
it's for this book or in general for her, I'm
not sure. Yeah, good for you, Yeah, good for you.
I mean, like I said, there is definitely an audience
for this. Uh and you know what should have gave
it away. I'm about to just be so rude, but

(45:58):
it's true. It's published by Riverhead Books. That was an indicator. Yes,
I think we said that even with the last book. Yeah,
they're books. I have a distinct feel they do. It's literary.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Are they literary? Okay?

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Okay, I should have saw that and been like, nope,
I don't know what I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Put some notes somewhere.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
No Riverhead books, because it's a distinct for podcast anyway.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
Yeah, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
So shall we rate it?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (46:40):
Please?

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Okay, I'll let you go first.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
If you like, no pressure, I'll give it a three.
I was at a two, but after we talked to
us like, it's now horrible, so I'll give it a three.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Okay, I too, gave it a three, but I knew
it was going to be a three before we started.
I knew it was batter than the two I gave
her other book. It was more interesting. But I stand
by what I said. She is not an author for me.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
I think in general, Yeah, she's getting added to the
Riley Sager list.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Yeah, which is I'm good And actually I probably would
not be super excited to see this narrator again either.
I think she did the best she could, like you
said earlier, But maybe it's the fault of the publisher
because they needed another voice, at least one more.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
At least because yeah, there were there were so many
females like I would have enjoyed another voice for Alice. Yeah,
I really, yeah, there should have been at least two
female voices in here.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Yeah, I agree, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Because it really wasn't a need for a male voice
because they're I don't think there weren't because I did libro.
So in libro, it didn't tell me whose chapters because
what was it? Was it TJ? Did TJ have a chapter?

Speaker 1 (48:18):
I know Barbara Luise, Alice, Victor has some chapters towards
the end. He had about one k three, four or five.
Victor is TJ's father.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Okay, he had five at the end.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, because on audible, I think.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Okay, and I think the women could have could have
done him.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
But other than that, yeah, it should have. It really
should have been with all those because because even because
there was a lot of dialogue.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah, you know, it's a lot of dialogue, I think
Alice had her own voice. And then oh well Carl
has some our chapters two earlier on.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
That's right in the beginning.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, so maybe it could have been one man, you know.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
For one man. Yeah, just sprinkle in.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
There, because guess what, when you have a difference of
voice like that if you're kind of fading, they'll slap
you right back into place because you're like, oh, voice, change,
what's happening?

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Yep, exactly, yeah. Yeah. And at certain points her voice
I didn't even which may have been the lulling effect,
because it just sounded like everybody was the same, and
she probably slipped out a character after a while. I mean,
it was hard to tell me, damn named characters. Yeah,
with all that dialogue. I mean, Walter and Lowell had dialogue.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, like that book was
one hundred pages too long.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
It might have been more than that. Yeah, I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
It was one hundred pages too long at least. I'm like,
although long Bright River was four hundred and eighty two
pages too which we also probably complained about it being
too long as well. They need to tighten up on
that editing, tighten it up.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
But it's Riverhead. Maybe they you know that literary they
have different standard maybe or different what's allowed. I'm going
to start watching more of the books that I do
read and see if Riverhead are some of the publishers
as some of those.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
So okay, So thankfully our next book is not published
by with Herhead. It is not. It is a short
and sweet one. It is two hundred and seventy two pages. Okay,
quick one. We are reading Retreat by Kristin Ritter. So

(50:46):
that's going to be I think a fast, poppy, lightweight
kind of like it. Like the synopsis starts talking about,
you know, at the very beginning, high lighted in bold,
a beautiful Connor insinuates herself into a wealthy socialites life
with deadly consequences. It sounds like it's going to be

(51:08):
fast moving bubble gum. I'm thinking not too heavy. I'm
guessing it might have the vibe of that other stuff
we were reading. Remember we read a couple books back
to back. What was it? Who was that? We read
one for the podcast and then I think we did
another for Patreon. I think, actually, give me a second,

(51:32):
I'll tell you because it starts, oh live Constantine's books.
Remember we did those. Yeah, I feel like it's going
to be in that vein if I had to guess, okay,
because you know socialite, someone's a fake kind artist yep, grifting. Yeah,
I bet it's going to be in the vein of that. Like,

(51:54):
but if it's super different. I would be ecstatic for
that too, but I have a feeling I'm right. Yeah, okay,
we'll see, time will tell.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, yay. I was excited for this one too, but
you never know.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah in center miss huh. So yeah, if you guys
want to talk about this book with us, if you've
read it, I believe this airs before we hold book
club at the end of the month, so you should
definitely join us on the book club's apps. You can
come and talk with fellow readers and see what everyone
else has to think besides us. I'd love to hear
lots of different points of view. And I mean already

(52:31):
people started talking about it over on Discord, so that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Well, yes, I was laughing when I saw that pop up.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Yeah, I was trying not to say anything like disparaging, right,
you know, give them their own space to figure it
out for themselves, because you know, we finished it so fast.
So anyway, so that's it for today. You guys, I
think we're done. What do you think, classy?

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Yes, yes, we are done.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Okay, we are going to end things here. Thank you
so much for listening to the entire episode. We appreciate
you for doing that and We'll catch you next month,
and don't forget to check out the after show, available
right now on Patreon and Spreaker. See you guys next time.
Take care of yourselves. Did you enjoy today's episode? If so,

(53:25):
please head over to Apple podcast or Spotify and leave
a positive, five star review. It's a simple action that
makes a big difference. You can also like this episode
on your favorite podcast player or share it with your
fellow bookworm friends on social media. Joining the show for
Addiction Patreon Family is another way to support us, where

(53:45):
as little as two dollars a month you can help
our team create even more amazing bookish content. If Patreon
isn't your thing, consider becoming a supporter on the Spreaker
app for just five dollars a month and gain access
to exclusive audio only content. You can find me everywhere,
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(54:06):
Join our book club of the same name on the
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