Pacing and Plot Holes: What Went Wrong in 'Lights Out'? | Book Chat - Shelf Addiction Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, book lovers, welcome back to shelf Addiction, the podcast
where we dive deep into the pages of thriller and
fantasy reads. I'm your host, Tamara, and today we are
getting into a BookTok favorite dark romance.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
But first, quick heads up.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
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(00:37):
community on the book Clubs app and don't forget to
subscribe and leave us a review wherever you're listening. And
speaking of community, I'm thrilled to welcome back my fantasy
and romance Ride or Died co host Casey from Heart
full of Ink. Welcome back, Casey.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Hey, I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yes, I'm excited you're here? Are you ready?

Speaker 3 (00:55):
So ready for this? You're okay?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
So you can find us both online and all the
usual spots. The links for everything are in the show notes,
so please click around, follow us do all the things.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
And we're just going to get to it.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
But before we do, I want to remind you that,
as always with book chats, we talk full spoilers here,
so you.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Have been warned spoiler alert.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Today we are discussing the book Lights Out, Written by
Nevessa Allen. The audiobook is narrated by Elina Wolf and
Jacob Morgan. Is duet style, by the way, everyone loves
that about it. It is published on February fourteenth, twenty
twenty four, by Zando and later that year by Slowburn
in audio. The paperback is three hundred and eighty eight pages.

(01:39):
The unabridge audio is thirteen hours and thirty eight minutes. Casey,
would you kindly share the synopsis?

Speaker 3 (01:46):
I want someone with a soul as black as night,
someone who would burn the world down for me and
not lose a single minute of sleep over it. Trauma
Nurse Alli doesn't need any more kinks. She likes the
one she's landing on just fine. Nothing could top the
masks meant she follows online unless one of those men
was shirtless, heavily tattooed, and waiting for her. In her bedroom,

(02:08):
she dreams about being hunted by one in particular of
him chasing her down and doing delicious, dark things to
her willing body. She never could have guessed that by
sending one drunken text, those dreams would become her new reality.
I want things most people don't, craving darkness and depravity
instead of light and love. Josh has spent his life

(02:28):
avoiding the limelight, but his online persona is another story.
At night, he posts masked thirst traps for his millions
of fans to drool over. But one of his followers
has caught his eye, Alli. After reading a comment begging
him to break into her house wearing a mask, he
decides to take her up on her offer. Together, Ali
and Josh live out their darkest fantasies, unaware that Ali

(02:51):
has captured the attention of someone else, someone with far
more sinister intentions than a little light stocking. As Josh
turns from predator into protector and the stakes tighten, you
must ask himself how far he's willing to go for
the woman he's obsessed with. Okay, so high level? When

(03:11):
you finished this book, can I confess something in this
safe space?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Of course I skipped the epilogue like I finished, got
to the end, read the first page of the epilogue
and just said, okay, I'm done, No, thank you. You
know what.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
You didn't miss anything, and when I tell you, you're.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Gonna be like the fuck.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Okay, please please tell me because that's where I'm at.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
So let's I'll tell.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
You a thing.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, you have to sit there with anticipation.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
I anticipate the epilogue ending, which I know is just sex,
but yeah, it is basic sex with some other things
that I care in that I don't like.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
But anyway, so does that mean you liked it?

Speaker 2 (04:01):
You thought it was okay?

Speaker 3 (04:03):
It was very so masked Men not my kink, not
my thing. Also like it's well done and well written,
but it was very much a self insert fan fic
story that no thank you. Like anybody who likes masked
Men will love this story. But and maybe I need

(04:27):
to talk to my therapists about this, but I'm going
to talk to you. It was not violent enough for me.
I thought this was gonna be a lot more violent,
and I was disappointed.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, okay, so I guess my little quick take is
no new kinked unlocked, absolutely no new kinks because I
was like, I don't think this is my thing or something. No,
I think I'll take Serial Killers getting Together. Oh, absolutely,
I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
It was not bad.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
It was okay. It wasn't as fast paced as I wanted.
It took me like almost two weeks to get this done.
It was slow to me, and I'm like, oh my god,
I gotta finish this book. And then every time, like
some of those intimate scenes would come up, I'm like, oh, this,
let's see what they tombaugh and it's just kind of like, oh,

(05:19):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
I just Alie likes.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
A lot of things, and so does Josh. And he's
figuring out as he's going along. He's got kingk Sy
didn't know he had, so that was interesting.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
But other than that, I'm like, this is just this
feels like a d list movie, like On or something.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
I mean, I'm just like, this is really mean. But
like when I was in high school and you would
there were the websites like AO three is the one
everybody remembers, but there's also fanfiction dot net. I know,
I'm aging myself lot right now. I used to read it,
but yeah, this felt very much like something I would

(06:06):
find on fanfiction dot net, where somebody's like, oh, I
met Harry Styles and he took one look at me,
and now we're in love and now we're having all
of this sex, and you know, like that's this except
he's a TikTok star and they're having kinky sex right
Like it was very it was so modern, and so

(06:28):
it's all about the TikTok. It's all about the masked men,
and he has to talk about the videos he's taking
and he's still posting all the videos and he's doing
all this and now she's popular and we have to
read the comments with her, and.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
She's getting haters and fowlers all that stuff because she's
the most.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Hated woman on the internet. And I was like, there's
only like maybe a thousand people who know who you are, Like,
that's not the most hated woman on the internet.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
That section of TikTok is very small, very small. So
let me tell you. I have stumbled across it before
and I've seen some of those thirst trap videos and
it doesn't do anything for me.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
I'm like, what's going on here?

Speaker 3 (07:11):
I have watched like approximately three of them, and I
was like, that's that. I'm done.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
I got nothing.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
I would definitely not be leaving comments and you know,
texting my little hookup.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Hey you want to do that?

Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, that was a mess.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
I'm like, shit, she's desperate, I guess in that moment
to send that text.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
But drunk and honey and desperate. Yeah no, it was.
It was kind of realistic in the sense that like, yeah,
I know people who would do that, but also like
I just wanted something more from a story. The tagline
is the couple that slays together stays together. So I
was like, Okay, they're gonna hook up, then they're gonna

(07:52):
start killing people, right, And I really assumed, like I
was hoping that Ali was gonna tell him like, oh
my god, I wanted to kill this guy, and then
they would like plan his murder together and become serial killers.
Like that's what I thought was gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
No, not at all.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Josh killed him by accident, my fucking accident, and then
he proceeds to like toss his cookies because he couldn't
believe he killed the one, like his real duct tape
like for like the most ducous move ever is he's.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Like, I don't even really remember putting the duct tape, you.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Know, over the nose, in my own amount, like I
did the mouth, of course, and then I guess they
got the nose too.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I guess maybe I was like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Like, what kind of garbage is that? I don't okay,
I guess I guess whatever.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
I mean, accidents happened. But I just again, with the
blurb and the tagline, I thought they were gonna be
like butchering Blackbird serial killers, and I was really expecting
a lot of dark, twisty psychological stuff. I thought he
was gonna go on this whole thing where he's like,
maybe I am like my dad, but maybe I can be,

(09:06):
you know, a serial killer who goes after really bad
people again like Butcher and Blackbird and all the stuff
we saw there.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
No, he's just a gem bro with childhood trauma.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yes, that's it, Yes, exactly, Oh god, yes, oh jeez.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
How much the author reminded us that she worked out
and he worked out, and how fond.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
Good lord. I felt like I needed to go to
the gym too.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
You'll go to the gym, but not like these two.
I'm like out of here with you two. I don't
know what's going on there, but they're like obsessed with
working out and stuff and she's like, I'm at the end.
They have this little hunt, which I'll tell you about later.
That's at the end. But she's like, I've just skipped
some of my regular workouts and I went running trying
to get faster and dunker.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Like he's the fun. That's what I felt like saying.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
But you know, I kept waiting on her to do
something really vicious and she didn't either. Like when that guy,
this is another brat, comes into the hospital and he's
like a rapist and he's killed people and he's acting
like a spoiled rich Yeah, you know, he's talking to
her sideways and I'm like, okay, she like threatens him.

(10:27):
I'm like, okay, she's gonna That's what I was waiting for.
That's what I was waiting for.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
I was like, she's gonna stab him with a scalpel
and then like he's gonna have to clean the cameras
and it's gonna be a whole thing. Or she's gonna
go home and be like I need to kill this
guy and they'll like plan a murdered. Like I just
wanted it to be so much darker than accident death
with duct tape.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
But look, this was crazy though she's supposedly so strong
between her ju jitsu, works out and you know, whatever
she knows how to do.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I'm like, I wanted.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Her to see her skills, yeah, on the paper, like
I though she could have, like, you know, she seemed like, no,
may I could beat her.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
She did. There was a lot of setup for it
to get really dark, yeah, and then it did. And
then even afterwards, she's like, well, I guess I'll call
my family who I haven't spoken to in like ten years,
and they'll clean this up for me. But I still
have to complain about them doing all the work because
now I don't feel satisfied, and like, is this really

(11:34):
taken care of? I have to take care of myself,
and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. It was
just such a letdown. It was.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
I thought it would be a lot darker, and I
guess the dark parts were just the kinky sets stalking.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
I guess stalking is a little okay.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
So I feel like Allie was the kind of person
that did not know what she liked it originally, and
I think she thought she would like something like that,
but then when it came to fruition, and this guy
really was in her house. I think she was genuinely
freaked out for a minute absolute and then she's like,
oh wait.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
I think you're hot.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Let's I did just I wanted this did die and
it just seemed like I don't know it, okay, So yeah,
she wanted all of the things that happened.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
To her, but I did not buy it fully. Does
that make sense? Like she wanted things to happen but
she didn't.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
And I feel like she was trying to impress or
I don't know, it shows she's the one up him.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
I don't know what her deal.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Was, but it didn't feel it was very fast, very
you know. She even talked about how she was like, oh,
I haven't really done much of anything in my life,
Like she hadn't hooked up in over two months or whatever,
she hadn't take a vacation in two years. She's just like,
I'm going to focus on going to the gym and

(12:56):
going to work and that's it and liking tiktoks like
that's my whole life. And then it was her TikTok
come to life, and she was like yay, I'm living
the dream. But also You're right. It was like there
was so much more that could have happened with the story,
and I was very disappointed with that.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, that's how I felt. When it was all over said.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
And down, I'm like, eh, and I just did not
love them as a couple.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
You know how. I am a bo couples. I need to.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Want to want to root for them hard, yes, And
I just felt like it was so surfaced. Even though
they did have some somewhat serious conversations, it didn't go
as deep as it should have.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Oh yeah, no, they it needed to go deeper.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
It needed to.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Be a lot more than just the physical because they're
both just like, oh my god, this person is the
hottest person I've ever seen in my life. Let's bang.
And then that was like okay, no, I want to
say I did appreciate the fact that he held her
that one night, like that was too cute. But then
they jumped right in his sex so like they had

(14:03):
some moments and then it was just like, Okay, now
it's just the physical.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
So she has this in another time, she has this
really hard damn work. It's snowing. He doesn't want her
to breaks into her car. He's like he won't speak
to know who he is at first, and she ends
up like giving him a on the way home and
stabbing him in the hand and stabbing him in the hand,

(14:31):
and I'm like, what was the point of this?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
What are we doing?

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Like honestly, I was just laughing at that point. I
was like, Okay, this is just absurd, and I feel
like you're going for the absurdity, so I'm gonna laugh.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
He brings her snacks, she eats the snacks, and then
she's like, Okay, I guess I could, you know, do
a little back. Like wise, it.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Was not for her, but okay, if you want me
to believe that, okay, I will try to believe that.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
But I don't know. It's almost just funny, but not in.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
A hearty laugh kind of way. It was just like,
I don't know, I just didn't love them. And then
I also came to the realization that and I kind
of knew this before, but this really solidified it for me. Like,
if we want to compare to the previous books that
we read, are the Butcher and Blackbird books. I like

(15:26):
a long game. I like a slow burn with a
lot of anks, a lot of attraction, a lot of
heat and then can we get there?

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (15:36):
And this one down between them in like two weeks.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
And that's why I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
At least in Butcher and Blackbird, they're like, it's been
six months, it's been a year, we've known each other
this long, and then they fall into it. All of
the characters kind of knew each other a long time
in each book. They weren't like brand spanking new to
each other. Well maybe the last one kind of, but
not really because time I passed before they actually got together.
But I guess it just solidified that I don't like

(16:05):
quick cookups.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
And it really depends on one the characters and to
the story, right, Like if it's a quick cookup, but
there's a really strong external plot going on, and there's
a lot of other stuff that really heightens what's going on,
you know, I can get behind that better. But when

(16:29):
it's just we're banging. Oh no, somebody's breaking into your house.
Oh no, we accidentally killed him. Oh no, he's we
contacted the mob and they're taking care of him. Now
we're just gonna bang again. Like it's that external plot
is so tiny and so light lightweight that it's not
a ban Yeah, it's not enough to go on. Yeah,

(16:50):
and then they fell in love with each other so quick.
You know, I love you.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I love you.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Oh, Like shut up, Like what are you talking about?
You guys are just in lust with that's us.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
That's all you're doing.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
That's lust. That's just sexual attraction. You're hot, let's keep banging.
You're making things.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
The thing is this.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
I feel like, if you want to have a book
where it's just about the sex, it could just be
about the sex. But when you try to turn it
into this like love of my life relationship, that just
doesn't gel. It's almost a misstep for me. Just call
a spade a spade, be what it is. Yes, exactly, Yes, Yes,

(17:35):
I think that was kind of a miss to me.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
I don't know one hundred It was just.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
It was what it was, and it wasn't enough.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Mm.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
And that blurb. I want to come back to that
blurb because they made it seem like, oh, she's got
the attention of somebody else and he's going to have
to figure out how to protect her. And I'm like, bitch,
it last sit an hour?

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Like maybe so Also, I find a huge fault in
how he even found her the new guy or the
the serial killer kid. So at the hospital in the
scene where she's like, I'll go in there and deal
with him, he said, she says, I'm nursed whatever, and

(18:24):
then it said, okay, this name is just a name
for you and people, right, and then someone comes in,
one of the guards and says her first name.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
He says, Ali, are you okay? And she's like, what
you know?

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Name he had with Ali, whatever the fake name was,
how did he find her?

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I mean, with hospitals, there are staff lists, so he
could have looked up every single woman who hasn't a
first name because her name is like actually Alyssa or something,
but she goes by Ali. So yeah, no, it was
a little bit of a.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
Like, hmm, it's a big stretch to me because this
guy wasn't like Josh. She wasn't a computer a really
good hacker. No, all he did was google people. That's okay.
So they sneak in to try to erase all his
stuff from showing that he was looking her up. That
would have been a perfect time to explain how he

(19:22):
found her, yep, but they the author missed the opportunity
to explain that.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
So it's just like, oh, yeah, he has just a
bunch of information about how Ali and her other coworker
who was you know, tiny and dark hair, and like, no, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
I want it some more because you know, I like
to sometimes I'll nitpick things.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
If it's a clear hole.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Well no, that's definitely a plot hole that I would
have flagged.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
So yeah, because I'm like, she didn't even say her
last name.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
No, neither did anyone else before they got into it,
and she got dragged out of there.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
So how do he even know where to start? And
do they? I don't think you can.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
Just you have to have to get it to get
in there. Maybe he paid somebody to hack it and
they'll find that information.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Like I don't know. I mean I would buy it
since he was rich. Just give me the line. Tossed
me the line to satisfy it.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Okay, what else?

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Okay, so she did toss in the line about this,
But Josh's roommate, do you think he recognized the thirst
trap picture to play matchmaker between Josh and Ali? Might
have because Ali had like there was that thought where
She's like, oh, did he do this, I wonder, and

(20:50):
then just and that was never brought up again.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
I think it's left up to us to guess because
the author clearly brought it via Ali for his reason,
although we never came back around to confirm or did
not it was the case. So I think maybe anything
is possible, or he's really that self absorbed he just
didn't see it.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
I think he's a little more intuitive than they give
him credit for. And like, if your roommate who stays
at home all day has very distinctive tattoos, and I'm
sure he's been inside Josh's bedroom at some point, so
he may have recognized the bed or the couch or
whatever he was on. Like, I think the roommate knew,

(21:35):
and I think he was like, hey, look at this
picture my hookup sent me.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
I think it's a good chance. I think it's a
good chance that he did it on purpose. You know,
he said he was looking for someone else to get
some of that attention off of his spread the share
of love, and hey, here's a perfect opportunity. I mean
even after you know, Josh said she was coming over
and he's like, oh, you guys like each other get
very excited for them, like that is a good friend. Yeah,

(22:06):
he's totally possible, but it is a little odd, like
they used to sleep together, now you're with my friend.
But also thought it was odd that they judged him
for going to the gym all the time when the
two of.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Them do the gym just as much, Like, yeah, weird.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
That was weird.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
You shouldn't judge him. You're the same, yes, And actually
it's so funny to me because while I was kind
of trying to figure out what kind of friendship they had,
it felt a little weird.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
It was a weird friend with you like that, like
you follow your friend around and like run off his
little girlfriends that you don't like.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
That was very no, it was weird range It had
a weird vibe, very controlling, very He was like, yeah,
he showed up at one of my hookup hats at
three am to lecture me. And I was like, that's
not what a friend does. That's a red flag all day,
all day.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, you know, and even Ali thinks she's okay with this,
but maybe for now you are, but I don't know
if you'll always be. That's annoying as hell. I can't
even go to work without you hacking into the work, uh.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Watching cameras Like, no, that's creepy, that's very creepy.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
She's got a serious kink of for that then, because
I would be so annoyed, like can I get away
from you?

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Please?

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Absolutely? I would hate every minute of it. I would yeah,
uh huh.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Like is he gonna throw you in the basement and
lock you in there?

Speaker 3 (23:31):
Maybe?

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, it's very It's not cute, No, not cute to me,
not at all. But she loved it, so I guess
that's what matters.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Or was she just digmatized, Like was she just so
horny for good dick that?

Speaker 1 (23:44):
And supposedly it was so big so I get so
many laughs out of it. I mean, I'm like, that's
why it's it's.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Made up like big.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
She can barely wrap her fingers around it, like get
out of here, girl? She like no, yeah, no, it was.
It was ridiculous. But again, like that comes back to
the fan fiction, like this was definitely the self insert
happy fan fiction where you're like, Okay, I'm a person

(24:22):
who likes watching the mask talk stuff, so here's gonna
be my mask man coming to find me and we'll
go on this light little adventure, and everything's great, everybody's happy,
everything's perfect.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
Mask men with huge muscles, tattoos, big digs, that's it.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
That's it, that's life. Here we go.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
And then she threw in a big brain so that
we'd feel better about him.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
So in his trauma, we have to can't forget the trauma,
so then you.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Feel bad for him.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
You're like, oh, no, poor little boy had a terrible childhood.
Maybe he'll become a serial killer. No, he just accidentally
kills people with duct tape of all fucking things.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
It's so sad about it.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
And he throws up, which I mean, okay, that was funny,
but like I just wanted something darker and this was
not it.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, I agree. It's like the ingredients were there, they
just weren't cooked right. The wrong meal was made.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yes, Like the roots were all there, all the components
were right.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
It's like you think you're gonna get like double fudge brownies,
but instead you have oatmeal raisin cookies and you're like, okay, yes,
it's flour, sugar eggs, but it's not it's not.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Working what you expected at all. You're expecting one thing
and you got something else.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Okay, I think now it's a great time to take
a quick break. You guys, check out these commercials by
listening to those you are supporting the podcast, and don't
forget to pick up a copy of the book Review
Journal as well, available on Amazon right now. So click around,
do all the things, and we'll be right back. Okay,
welcome back. Yes, where should we continue our lights out.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Conversation?

Speaker 3 (26:25):
I don't even know, like we've covered most of the
plot other than the set, and I don't really want
to get into the sex stuff.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Okay, so it's after the commercial people, if you put
if you plung on and you're still listening, you can
get some of the sex stuff. We'll try to keep
it not too horrible so we don't get flagged anywhere.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
But the knife kink?

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Oh god, yeah, no, no.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
I'm like, what's going on with that? So he puts
a knife in the mattress and you can guess what
she does with it?

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Ick, what is it that a horse save a cowboy
or ride a cowboys? Whatever that is? You know that
that happened to the knife handle, which I will say
I was very glad he sterilized it. He did sterilized it,
and then he put his hand there to help keep

(27:18):
the knife from coming out, to help protect So I
was like, he gets gold star points for that, for
both of those things, because otherwise this would be god awful.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, the knife thing.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
And then it comes up again when they're doing it
and he uses the back of the knife against her throat, which,
what the fuck? What's with all the knife play? Like, dude,
I don't I guess you know some people. I guess
I just get your one accident. You're so close to
one accident and and you'll end up in the ear.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Both of you being sweaty and moving a lot. And
and he specifically said at one point like this knife
was sharp enough to cut through bone.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
So in the scene where he holds the knife to
her throat, he's like ramming her from the back, pulling
her hair.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
The knife comes around. I'm like, oh my god, like
you kills someone by accident.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
And then later he's like, oh, it was the backside
of the knife. She's like okay.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
I'm like, oh ah, you can still slip and slide
and maybe stub or nick an artery, Like the tip.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Is right there.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
It could fall and cut her.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Hand, like clearly I would be happy, Like, yeah, I don't.
I don't like that kind of danger.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
And then like all the things were thrown in so
there was like some dominance in there. He's like spankyard.
At one point, it's like everything he likes. Everything he's
using like what plagues and then he later says, well,
maybe I'll let her use it on me. I'm like
what he likes every thing, anything and everything with nothing.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Good for that have fun. But also like.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
It's all over the place, like I don't know. I
just think it just was for a shock value. Yeah
it didn't really, But again, if it was just gonna
be a book about crazy sex, then so be it.
Let it be that, and maybe you two can just
go wild and do all the crazy things that you

(29:30):
thought you might want to do. But it just seems like,
I don't know, it just didn't gel. It didn't go smoothly,
Like when this stuff is happening, I'm like what, Okay,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
I guess this is fine. Okay, you're pulling out a
knife again.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Okay, he's choking her.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Sometimes he's like doing all these anything under the sun, Yeah, anything,
any kink you can imagine it's this guy's speed. Yeah,
she down for anything apparently, And again that's okay if
that's your thing. But I just don't think if fit

(30:08):
what the author was trying to accomplish with this couple.
I don't know, it felt weird.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Again, it was just a very surface level like you
were talking about earlier. It's very surface level. They're just
in lust with each other. They just want the physicality.
They just want this extra kinky kind of sex so
they can get off harder. Like it wasn't a good

(30:36):
good BDSM story really builds so that you feel like
the character growth is happening during the sex scenes. Right,
You feel like the character if they're a sub and
they're really falling into that trust and they're really coming
to terms with okay, like I can trust you as

(30:57):
my dom, I can close my eyes.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
You telling this conversation. You're saying this right now? Is
I think why it was off to me because this
wasn't served up as a BDSM. Oh no, this is
the character let's see king like, right, they weren't acting
like they were BDSM. They weren't acting so it was
kind of like them just playing around and trying shits.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
It's very much like, Hey, we're the kiddies in the
kiddie pool with our little floaties. Let's just jump into
the kinky sex stuff. Because like they had those conversations
where they're like, we don't use safe words, just say
stop and I'll stop, which is good, but like there's
a safe word for a reason, especially if you're going

(31:42):
into dub con like because.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Which is what they attended here.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
But I guess, you know, because I guess supposedly when
it's done like how you expect it to be done,
the words stop may utter out of your mouth and
you may not actually mean stop, but it just like
a reaction.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yes, you may say no or stop just out of
a knee jerk response.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Right, which is why you have a secondary word, because
the secondary word means no for yes exactly, And then.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
If you don't stop after that, then it becomes rape.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Right then it's a problem.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
But not have a say like so I kind of
like the idea of what she was going with it,
but again it's just like not having a safe word.
I like the idea that he'll just stop when she
says stop in a story, but that again just shows
that they're playing around. They're just playing around and trying shit.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
That's it. Yeah, they don't really know what they're doing.
It's just like we're just gonna have fun with each other.
Whereas there are a lot of rules with BDSM for
a reason for safety purposes, like it's always safe, sane, consensual. Yeah,
and if you're not safe, sane, and consensual, then you're

(32:54):
not doing it right.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, they're really walking that line. So I'll tell you
a little bit about the epilogue.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
I've been waiting.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
With the epilogue, they decide to rent a little cabin
in the woods and they're gonna go out there and
have a hunt where he hunts her down, and the
rule is he will win if he can hunt her
down under a certain timeline and get his dick in there.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Is dicking. Yes, if it's.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Inside, it counts, Okay, that's not if it's not inside.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
So the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
They have a couple of rules, like they have their
trackers turned on each other in case somebody gets lost,
but you can't check the tracker. And another rule was
like if you can't find them in an hour, then
you could check the tracker.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
So what was another rule?

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Oh yeah, so like no dirty place, so you can't
like throw dirt in someone's eyes or something like that.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
But basically it was a free for all.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Like so she's running, he's chasing, and it gets to
the point where he finds her. She like like fighting
each other. So they're not like punching to her, but
they're like fighting. They're slapping each other around, and it's
a crazy because they're like trying to She's trying to
escape him, to keep running away, but he's trying to

(34:14):
restrain her.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
And I'm like, if anyone.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Saw you, guys, yeah no, this is it looks crazy.
So she's flailing, he's chasing. It's so ridiculous. And then
finally when he catches up to her again, they're like
in this like creek area there.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
She's thinking about.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Using karate moves on him, but she's like, oh, I
really don't want to hurt him that bad, so I'll
just continue this. And the next thing you know, he
wins the game like seconds before her watch goes off
of course, of course, and so that happens, and then
they get up and they're like, Okay, let's go back
and do some more stuff at the cabin.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
Yay.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
They're skipping back, you know, they're all they're a little
bit scratching up.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
He's like, oh I got to scratch. Oh what a mess.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
And she's like, oh, next time, we need to bring backpacks.
And he's like for sex toys and she's like, no.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
For our first day.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
Oh that's good.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
And then he goes.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
He looks at her. She's like, well, I guess we
can put sex toys too. Basically okay.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
Fine.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
So they get back, they're like, okay, I'm going to shower.
They walk in it is a cluster fuck toilet paper
everywhere inside.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
And they're like, oh my god. They're thinking. I don't
know what they're thinking.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
But then he yells the cats, oh no, Apparently they
got a little girl cat, their daughter, who is a
menace to society and fights with the other cat. And
she's in there running around like chicken with the head
cut off with the toilet paper, and then the other
cat pounces and it's a cat fight.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Oh God, don't stop the cat from fighting.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
And then they start talking about what how many real
kids they're gonna have?

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Oh no, you got pet kids? How many real kids?

Speaker 1 (36:01):
This is where things just totally want girl right onto
the page as they start talking about, oh, you know,
I want to.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
I forgot the word he used.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
But he's like basically eight kids and eight kids, eight kids,
and she's like two, he's like five.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
She's like two.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
He's like they're like going back and forth. She's like, look,
mess around, it's gonna be done. But then you know,
he tries to persuade her by saying something like, oh,
imagine me with no shirt. I got a todler in
one arm and a baby and the other arm that's
supposed to be really attractive to her and her ovaries

(36:39):
keep singing as they do this entire book. You know
how they castanly talks about how they need a second
form of SO.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
And I'm like, what w t F.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Thank god, I give you that F. I did not
miss anything.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
You didn't because that just if you guys are unaware,
if this is your first time listening, that is something.
I hate babies at the end of a story. I
hate babies for the reason of, like, you cannot have
a happy relationship without some rugrats running around, and the
fact that this is like the author. The author kept

(37:19):
bringing this up over and over again through the book
about pregnancy and all these things, and I'm like, oh,
and their.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
Son and we need mommy and da any time.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yes, it was almost another kink, like maybe they're treating
it like a kink or something.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
And it is I don't know.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
It's bordering or kind of like into the breeding kink,
which is I hate that.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, no, I don't like it, don't That's what it's
feeling like.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
And I just at the end, it just was like that,
it's not the kind of epilogue I want it.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
I mean, thank god she wasn't pregnant, but still, oh,
I know, thank.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
You, but it sounded like she can't wait to get
pregnant and have his babies.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Oh no, no, thank you.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yeah, that was like pathetic. I just know.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
And personally as they're running through the woods, and also
I'm like, ew, I'm like, what world would you ever
catch my ass running out?

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Fuck that I'm not.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Running from the zombies when the zombie apocalypse happens.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Like I'm not having sex with no fucking creek then,
Like it's dirt in places it should not be like
saying yeah no because you're having sex in a creek,
m M where you're on I'm kind of rocks.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
That is not that's not sexy. It's not, but they
think it is.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
They had blasts, so I guess as long as they
have fun, sure me as the reader, I did.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Not have that.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
No.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Again, like not to chuck anybody's young, but this is
not my thing. So I will give this book to
a friend who I know will like it, and I
will never talk to her about it.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Actually, you know what, for that reason, it might be
fun to read. If you don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
What you like, you like this or not?

Speaker 3 (39:11):
Okay, So I have seen this around on TikTok and
Instagram a couple times, where people will comment under spicy
book stuff and say, hey, I'm new to kinky sex.
What can I read to learn what I like? And
the answer is nothing, Like absolutely the fuck. No, anything

(39:34):
you read in fiction should just be fictional. If you
want to explore kink in the real world, go take
a class, go to a real dungeon, Go find a
real person in the real BDSM world. Because again, what
they're doing here is sensationalized fiction. Right. Yeah, he could
have stabbed her throat at any point accidentally, not meaning to,

(39:57):
but like, that's what happens in the real world. Yeah,
so this would be a good place for somebody to start,
like dark romance and see, Okay, maybe I do like
reading about this kinky stuff. But if you actually want
to try it in real life, please, for the love
of god, oh my god, please find like a reputable source,

(40:19):
a dungeon, anything that's not fiction, something in real life
to help you.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, because what's happening gonna happen in real life is
not gonna be what you read on the Absolutely. No, absolutely,
it's definitely glamorized and really unrealistic in some ways. Not
that I would know a whole bunch, but I can
tell what's written as flowery. Oh, it's sound crazy, it's
so crazy, Like let me, I mean, think about a

(40:47):
horror film.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Did you know that's a horror film with dudes chasing
these girls in the woods.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah, that's a horror film. Attack them. That's a horror.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah, but not a romance. I was gonna say, think
about anytime you've read a sex scene in any book, right,
it's usually very flowery, very happy, and there is like
nothing to clean up afterwards. They just roll over and
go to sleep and everybody's happy and you don't have
to wash the sheets the next day or that night

(41:15):
or anything like. That's not realistic.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
No, so just.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Yeah, kinky stuff is not realistic in fiction.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
I mean you start like really thinking about half of
the stuff that was going on in this book, you'll
be like.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Ooh, yeah, no, this really should not happen in real life. Well,
unless you have been in the kink world for like
five years or longer, you should not do any of this.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
I wouldn't do any of this personally, but you know,
I don't know. But like I wouldn't do anything in
that other book either. I wouldn't be going around for
killing people for shits and giggles.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yes, yeah, no we're not murderers or serially, no, we're
not doing.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
And that's the thing, Like, yeah, it is fiction, And
I guess it's okay to read all kinds of things
to kind of figure out at least what you like
to read.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
But I figure I probably won't read any more of this.
I don't think I will.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
I'm curious to see if it's gonna follow the same
couple or if it's gonna be a different couple each time.
I hope it's a different couple.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Well, we haven't met any other couple. So if there
is they, I don't know how they would be intertwine.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
I feel like her mafia cousins or even the roommate.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Oh look here it is. I'm just gonna go ahead
and okay the next one. So it says Nico Junior. Yep, there, No,
it's Lauren is off limits. So blah blah blah. So
I guess he is. Also, he's a biker guy.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
I guess a mafia biker dude. Aren't they separate bike
gangs and mafia?

Speaker 2 (43:03):
I don't know, I guess. So let's see.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
When Junior looks Lauren up online, he discovers the shy,
bookish girl he remembers is gone all striking, beautiful woman
whose social media is built with scantily clad pictures of
herself and connected to a nearby play club. Hmm, no,
thank you.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Interesting. So it's interesting, but I probably won't read it.
I can.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
There's no probably I won't read because now I know
it's probably gonna be warm. The reader going on, absolutely,
who seduced who?

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Nat? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Yeah, so Nico is her cousin. Yeah, we have a
whole little gang, a little bugs.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
As soon as she brought in the what five male
cousins who are all Italian and stacked and mafia cleaners whatever.
I was like, Okay, it's gonna be about them, right.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
But I don't know head of the family.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
God god who.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Josh ends up threatening at the end, which is funny, Like, Okay,
I guess he says he's killed one person.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Now, I guess he figures he could do it again.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Just pull out the tag tape. Come here, uncle.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yes, I guess he figured if he looks mean enough
and he has a cold look in his.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Eyes, he can cold look in his eye.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Oh my god. This man has had people murdered, right,
He has.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Probably done some murdering in his past. He has helped
clean up other murders, like he is.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, and he knows who you are. He's clocked you.
He probably lets you think you got away with something.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
But please yeah, no, no.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
You're a little boy. You will not w try to
go up against him.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
He's like, does he know what I could do with him?

Speaker 3 (45:10):
So scary?

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Oh jeez, Okay, I think I'm done.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
I think I'm done too.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yeah, should okay, let's rate lights.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
Do you want to go first?

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (45:29):
I guess I can.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
I'll give it a three. It was okay, it was
entertaining enough. You know, we've already talked about the things.
I wish we're a little better, But for what it is,
it's fine. We kind of decided to read this as
a comparison to the other stuff we were reading that
was also in this category, because it's supposed to be comedic, right,
comedic dark romance, and this fell short compared for me,

(45:53):
in my opinion, compared to Butcher and Blackbird, this fell short.
So three it is, how about you?

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Same? Three stars. There were some funny parts, but overall
it was just very not my style, not for me.
Like I keep saying, I have a friend who I
know she loves the mask men, so I know she's
gonna love this, Like that's yay, good for her.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
But some do show up with a mask and a
voice change. I get.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
I'd be stabbing him. It's not like, what the hell
m Yeah no, no.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
So clearly Maskmin is not.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
We will know in the future to skip these books, yeah,
because we'll just be laughing at them and talking shit.
Absolutely absolutely, God, the whole voice modulator thing, I think
that would have been funny in the audiobook, but just
reading it, I was annoyed.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
It was funny, but I'm like, oh, like, I just
wanted to say, she yanked that thing off his hair?

Speaker 2 (46:59):
What is wrong you?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yep, she knows you already. Why are you playing these
stupid games?

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Like I will say just final note. I was very
happy that she figured it out. As soon as she
met Josh. I was like, thank god, you didn't drag
this out until like.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
A but you know, it was kind of obvious. She
goes over, He's got fucking full ass gloves on my.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Gloves in their house, right, Yeah it was. It was ridiculous,
but I was like, thank god she figured that out,
because if she hadn't, I would have been real like, like,
what's wrong? You are too dumb to live?

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Absolutely, But anyway she figured it out, it was good.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, so yes, which made all the little shenanigans I
guess more acceptable to her because she knew who it
really was. So she's like, I've seen him. He's fine,
So it's okay, he's not He's not fugly under that mask,
I know, because guaranteed he yanked that mass off and
he turned out to be somebody really nasty looking.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
She would have been like you.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Oh, yeah, she's been hanging up with earlier. She'd be like, eh, yeah,
no you're not You're not doing it for me. Now.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
That's the only way you can get away with all
those things.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
So fine, Yeah, we have to be hot and rich
and then you can get away with anything, apparently.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
All right, So I guess we're gonna end things there. Yes,
we don't know what we're doing for our next book chat.
We're gonna figure it out, yay, So you'll know when
we know or not episode, but you know, join us
on Patreon or someplace else you might find.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Out early because you know, we like to share stuff
ahead of time when we can. And uh, yeah, I
think that's it all.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, we'll be announcing our next fantasy series very soon,
within the week of this airing, So if you really want.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
To know ahead of time, chop chop, join us to
all the places. So yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
We're gonna call it today. Thank you so much for
listening to the entire episode. We appreciate you for doing that,
and we'll catch you in the next one. Until then,
take care of yourselves.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Bye guy.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Hi everybody.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Did you enjoy today's episode?

Speaker 1 (49:19):
If so, please head over to Apple podcast or Spotify
and leave a positive, five star review. It's a simple
action that makes a big difference. You can also like
this episode on your favorite podcast player or share it
with your fellow bookworm friends on social media. Joining the
show for addiction Patreon Family is another way to support us,

(49:39):
where as little as two dollars a month you can
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Speaker 2 (49:59):
The handle sit shelf Addiction.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Join our book club of the same name on the
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Pacing and Plot Holes: What Went Wrong in 'Lights Out'? | Book Chat

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Pacing and Plot Holes: What Went Wrong in 'Lights Out'? | Book Chat