Secrets and Lies in a Small Town: Reviewing Listen for the Lie | Book Chat - Shelf Addiction Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, book glovers, Welcome back to shelf Addiction, the podcast
where we dive deep into the pages of thriller and
fantasy reads. I'm your host, Tamara, and today we are
covering our September thriller Buddy Read, where a true crime
podcaster and a suspect solve a crime. But first a
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(00:24):
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(00:45):
sign up too. All right, So, if you want even
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Clubs app and don't forget to subscribe and leave us
a review wherever you're listening. Speaking of community, I'm thrilled
to welcome back my fabulous thriller mystery co host and
friend Classy from the Bookish Virtual Assistant. Welcome back, Classy,
Hi Tamar, how are you doing all right? It's a

(01:07):
hot day today. I don't know what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh, we had to get a little warm.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, my house is like we turned our our air
off because it was like in the sixties, like high sixties,
low seventies. We turned it off, were like, yay, fun, great.
Today it's like eighty degrees and my house is like
eighty five.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Oh, and then it's got to catch up.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, but we decided to just kind of bear through
it because it's gonna make another turn and it's gonna
get cool again, like in a day or so. So okay,
we're like trying to hang in there. So I'm a
little warm girl.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Look, I got a fan over here, but I know
I can't turn it on.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, if you hear this seat, this might go off.
I mean I got warm.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
If I see the mute, I know it's because you
turned the fan on. Blame you.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
The links to find both of us on our socials
are in the show notes, so click around and do
all the things. As always with book chats, we talk
full spoilers here, so spoiler alert You've been warned. Today
we are discussing the book Listen for the Lie, written
by Amy Tintara. The audiobook is narrated by January LaVoi

(02:22):
and her husband Will Damron. Published March fourth, twenty twenty five,
by Salidan Books and Macmillan Audio. The hardcover is three
hundred and thirty six pages. The unabridged audio is nine
hours and eighteen minutes. Classy, would you kindly share the synopsis?

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Absolutely? What if you thought you murdered your best friend?
And if everyone else thought so too? And what if
the truth doesn't matter? Lucy and Savvy were the golden
girls of their small Texas town. Pretty smart in and enviable,
Lucy Mayor a dream guy with a big ring and

(03:02):
an even bigger new home. Savvy was the social butterfly,
loved by all, and, if you believe the rumors, especially
popular with the men in town. But after Lucy has
found wandering the streets covered in her best friend Savvy's blood,
everyone thinks she is a murderer. It's been years since
that horrible night, a night Lucy can't remember anything about,

(03:26):
and she has since moved to la and started a
new life. But now the phenomenally huge hit true crime
podcasts Listen for the Lie and It's Too Good Looking
host Ben Owens has decided to investigate Savvy's murder. For
the show's second season, Lucy is forced to return to

(03:46):
the place she vowed never to set foot in again
to solve her friend's murder. Even if she is the
one who did it, the truth is out there if
we just listen.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
So, mister Ben looking like an avenger. According to the grandmother.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Right now, she looks he looks better.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes. I was like, okay, all right, high level, what
do you think? Uh? I was like, that's a.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Cute look cozy mystery if I'm not sure it really
has the elements of a cozy mystery, but I kind
of felt like it was.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
It was cute.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
It was small town lies, lots of lies. Also felt like,
you know, a lot of the themes that they were
bringing out the secrets and deceit of small towns or
just the towns and how this murder surfaced, a lot

(05:01):
of things that was going on outside of just Savvy's murder.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
But yeah, I was like, okay, yeah, I would agree.
I think it's cute, but I didn't think cozy exactly.
I think the elements of the grandmother, like dragging her
back there, like those things kind of lent itself to
the cozy I guess feeling, but high level. I enjoyed it.

(05:30):
I think the audiobook was well done. I like that
pairing of audiobook narrators. Was the story surprising? Not really,
not really, but you know, I can't really expect too
much nowadays, I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
And the cozy part it was and I won't say
like warm and fuzzy. It gave me cozy mystery feels,
you know. I had the small all time element, the
crime was off page. The only thing it didn't have
was like the little what would they call it a hook,

(06:12):
you know, like a certain setting. But I wonder if
we could call the podcast the little setting got the
amateur smooth, which is Ben Owens, the podcaster. I would
say the characters were relatable. You had the town social butterfly,

(06:32):
the popular girl. You know. That was the coziness that
I was kind of talking about. It kind of reminded
me of a cozy mystery, but I know it didn't
have like all of the elements that a cozy mystery
would have. But yeah, it was entertaining. I agree. I
enjoyed the podcasts. The production of the of the audiobook

(06:55):
with the podcast, which has become a very popular writing style.
I can't remember what was the first podcast we read.
I felt like it then something.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Was this the same James book?

Speaker 2 (07:12):
No, it was the one where with the swimmer and
the young girl somebody died in a swimming accident. Somebody
Golden I think was the lady's name or something like
that night swim that night I swim. I think that
might be who.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Is the author, Megan Golden?

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yes, yes, I believe that was our first podcast book.
And I can't remember when, but like ever since that book,
I don't know when was that.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Let's see, it was published in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Okay, And I mean there's probably others out there, but
that has been a really popular element to use in
books now is the podcast theme. And and I believe
even like with that one you Know she because I
remember us reading that, we were like, oh my god,

(08:15):
we love how she did the you know the layout.
It was as if they were producing the podcast right
there for the reader. I also feel like, I'm not
sure if this book would have been as enjoyable as
a read, you know, if I read it and not

(08:36):
listen to it. I believe the audio book brought another
another level to the book. I think if I read it,
I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, I can't agree with that. I'm curious to kind
of see what that looked like on the page. But
the podcast, we have music, we had sounds, it was like,
you know, it would break in, and we had you know,
of course, because there were a male and female narrator,
we really felt like we were hearing interviews. Those things

(09:11):
really added a lot. And I see why this, I
guess type of book is popular because the true crime
podcasts are still popular and I actually listen for them,
listen to them, excuse me. And now I actually thought,
when I was reading this book, this is a podcast
I would probably listen to, Like, if this was a

(09:32):
real podcast, I would be tuning in because it sounds interesting.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, I mean the way he set up his interviews,
you know, the way he would release them based up
it was salacious. I mean it was it was like
a little soap opera. And yeah, there were some good
twists in there, and you know, and the pacing was nice.

(09:57):
But I really do think that if I had to
read this book, I may not have enjoyed it as much.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, so I do. Before we get too far into things,
I do want to talk about a couple of trigger warnings,
because some stuff, like you said, was off page, but
some stuff was on page. Savvy's murder was actually on page.
We got that when she finally remembered. Intimate partner abuse
is on page. We saw it. Things that weren't kind

(10:26):
of on page. You know, I guess, I guess they
weren't there, but you know, alcoholism, infidelity, and sexual assault
also was brought up.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
So okay, so yes, definitely, yeah, because we're talking, it
was brought Yeah, they were brought up further. Yeah, probably
closer to the end of the book. Yet you're right,
that is true. Some tricker warnings.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Yeah, let's just jump into it. Like the killer, it's
always the guy who seems nice right.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
On, suspecting.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yes, he's unassuming, he's really friendly, he's really and like, okay,
so I kind of knew.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
He's always the best friend of the girl. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
So when Lucy when old boy kissed Lucy and she
thought the kiss was disgusting, she's like, why is this just?
This was me?

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, I had one of them before. I mean, just
get back, you know, I've had one before, and you
immediately get the vibes that this is not going the way.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, he was so into it, and to the point
where the one scene that really told it to me
was when she said I wasn't kissing him back. I
was kind of just standing there and he's still like
I'm like, oh, no, right.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
He's still kissing it. That's like when the knee to
the groin. Sorry that was just me, but any who
gave it away, I said, oh, it's him. I said,
some wrong with him, something's very wrong. Yeah, I knew
it was him. When what's his name? Ben interviewed most

(12:15):
of the people, and he interviewed like I think he
interviewed a few of them more than once, or their
story was a little longer than Emmett's. His name is
emmittt folks. But Emmett's interview was just like it was
so brief that when she went back and asked Ben,

(12:36):
when did Emmitt say he left the party, I'm just like,
damn it, he did interview Emmitt, you know, like I
remember Nina's interview, I remember Matt's interview in the other
people's interview, but Emmett's interview was just so brief in
short that I'm like, Okay, what did he talk about again?

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Right?

Speaker 2 (13:02):
So yeah, there were some giveaways, yeah there was, yeah,
but that nasty kiss.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
That was gross. And then the flashback. I knew I
was waiting on the moment for someone to directly do
something that they did before that would trigger Lucy's memory.
I was waiting on it because at first I thought
it is the husband going to give it to her
or the ex husband. No he didn't, I thought too. Yeah,
she had a little something from him, but not all

(13:31):
of it was incomplete.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, but when.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
You know what the trigger was, it was the smell
of the paint on his hands when he touched her face.
Then it was just like, oh my god. And that
was like the final tick. Although what started it the
very beginning. She's sitting in her car and she sees
Emmet grabbed Nita and she's like, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
That feels real familiar.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
So then she's already kind of panicked. And then after
you know, it's just a it just came back like
like that. Yeah, all of it.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
And and sense of smell and sound and music and
think those are all things that will trigger memories. I
don't know if you've ever heard that before, like your
sense of smell and any kind of music, those type
of things will trigger. But yeah, I when you say that,

(14:29):
I remember that scene very clearly that she's watching in
real time. But going back, how many years was that
four or five years to that night when this all occurred.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
So so yeah, so I think even though it wasn't surprising,
the reveal was quite good. It was quite entertaining, m
and it was fast moving, like once it started, you
want to see kind of how that was gonna end.
And Lucy is an interesting character because of the history

(15:05):
she said with her ex she fights mm hmmm, and
Emma was not expecting to be cocked in the face
like that. She like hauled off and punched him, and
it wasn't really good punch because she was tilts her.
But they continued to fight, and I mean fight it out.
He's swinging a hammer at her.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, yeah, she she she wasn't going down well, and
and that from Ben's interviews with people from her past,
you know she wasn't afraid and neither was savvy. Both
of them were fighters, to be honest. Yeah, but yeah, Lucy.
Lucy was a fighter, which surprised me, And I don't

(15:50):
know why it surprises me that she stayed with Matt
for so long. Like your fight, you have to fight
his ass back, you know, like I mean not to
fight him back, but he's he's abusive, and you're spending
most of your time fighting him. And then his excuse
would be, oh, go ahead and tell because I'll tell

(16:11):
him you fought me, you hit me too, or something. Yeah,
but those are relationships, you know, everybody's relationship is different,
So I can't really say I'm surprised.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
He did tell us. She says on the page. You know,
I when it was good between us, it was really good,
and she was like enamored with the sexual relationship they had, right,
she loved how they were in that way. So I
think not only that she didn't think people would believe her, right,

(16:43):
and she had.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, because yeah, the town yep, Yeah, because yeah, and
because he was beloved you know when he presented Yeah,
he was a little narcissist. He he presented himself as
the best thing since sliced bread. He came for money. Yeah,
everybody who wouldn't want Matt.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, So she had her reasons, and you know, it's
not like she was a helpless person. She probably could
have got out sooner, but she was kind of just
floating there. You know, she was having affairs, he was
having affairs. They fight it out sometimes and then they
carry on. It was very weird. They had a very

(17:24):
like almost codependent but scary. It wasn't like because she
could have walked away from that. She could have, yeah,
but she didn't.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Right, Savvy said it many times besides I me, you know,
Savvy wanted to kill, kill, kill, but but yeah, she
could have. But there were some things I think she
was just still dealing with about herself. And then when
the ship just got really crazy at the wedding that

(17:57):
end part she was like, you know what, fuck it,
let's let's go. Let's both just leave. But it was
too late, well too late for Savvy. So but let's
talk about Savvy in her character, because you mentioned how
interesting Lucy was. Savvy was was was interesting, and there

(18:20):
was one part of Savvy's characterization that I was like, Okay,
so what was the importance of bringing that up? Not
sure about her killing a man some years before, and

(18:41):
you know, so in the story, Lucy is, which I
thought was really weird, at a certain point, that voice,
that constant voice, let's kill, let's kill. And I'm like,
but I know that was to throw us off because
now it's like, oh, this woman is she has different personalities.

(19:02):
She hears voices to kill, but it was actually Savvy's
voice that was telling her let's kill, because Savvy had
killed a man so many years before who who too,
was a creep who wouldn't take no for an answer
at a bar in college I believe, I don't know.

(19:23):
It might have been in a bar, so she once
she had that desire to kill, it was nothing to
her to want to kill again. And her out for
Lucy was let's just kill Matt.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, she's get this overwhill. Savvy was the one pressuring
Lucy to kill him.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
M h.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
And I think that's why the author disclosed that she
had killed before, because she felt confidence she could get
away with it again. Yeah, yeah, which makes sense, which
also kind of reinforces why Lucy keeps hearing Savvy say
let's kill. Although it's like because she wasn't really dealing
with it, she was kind of amplifying that herself by

(20:12):
constantly thinking of ways to kill people. Like it's like
she became obsessive about it.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Right, I mean, because it wasn't just a point of
whenever a man who treated her wrong, her solution was killed. No,
when her mother was around, she was like, hmmm, when
her father was around, ah, I could just you know,
it was it was just just different ways that she

(20:39):
could just in their life.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah. So now that part I think was not necessary. Yeah,
because honestly it didn't mean anything. It wasn't to me.
It wasn't a misdirect. I didn't think anything of it.
I said, why is she doing that? But I didn't
think she was like for Rocker or anything. I thought,

(21:01):
I'm like, why is she doing that? Like why is
she assessed with that? And it became clear why. But
I kind of thought it was a throwaway because if
the author was trying to make me think that she
might have done it by using that device, it didn't
work for me.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
No, No, that was that was too in our face,
that was too obvious. But it was just, you know,
to the point of this, she just wants to and
then it it and you know that humor element, you know,
because all of a sudden it would be killed kill,
and then it would just she would flip it to
something humorous, so I didn't take her serious, but it

(21:36):
did get to be a little annoying after a while.
That's kill yeah, Like come on. At first it was
creepy and I was like, what in the hell, But
then after it was used so many times, it just
blew over Yeah and that yeah, And that was another
thing like she did use. Repetition was a lot like that.

(22:00):
She used a lot. I can't remember what word I thought.
I wrote it down, Like there was one word she
she used so many times. I was like, can we
find another word?

Speaker 1 (22:12):
H milk oh.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
It was a term she used to describe Ben huh ohgug, yug, smug,
that smug look on his face. I wanted to, you
know how they would say, smack that smug. I wanted
to smack that word out of the book. I'm like,
how many I wish I should could go back and

(22:39):
count how many times that word was used, Like really, Amy.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
I'd search it.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, but those were, you know, just some of the
little grapes I had, is you know, the repetition that
lets kill the constant voices. The were smug, but it
was it was a It was an entertaining book. The
pacing was good, you know, it wasn't too slow.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
You know what. To go back to the let's kill stuff,
I feel like it had even less of an impact
on me when we got to the end of the
book and then we found out that Lucy never wanted
to kill Matt never. She didn't even want to do it.
And she basically tells Savvy that and she's like, Okay,
that's when they decided to run away. So why were

(23:33):
you obsessing like that? Like what was it exactly? Yeah,
I don't know. It just didn't really match.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
That's and I think that may have been maybe I
used the wrong way to describe that, but that's what
I felt like, you know, that kill kill kill. What
was the purpose of us hearing that that lets kill kill?
Because in the end, the kill kill kill was because,

(24:05):
like you said, Lucy had done it before she thought
she could get away with it again. But why is
it becoming a constant voice for Lucy down near in
everyday life, in any little situation she hears her friend say,

(24:26):
let's kill and you didn't want to do it?

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, So I just had the biggest plot hole just
to back me in the face. So during the investigation. Again,
this is that you can't count trust county police type
of situation because think about this. We said this before,
I can't trust counties. That is one of the true

(24:51):
podcasters I listen Toesday. They say it all the time,
but it's true. So think about it. When they found
Lucy and she had all the blood on her mm hmmm,
why didn't they test all the blood all over her?
Because Emmett was bleeding yep, they attacked him. Why didn't

(25:12):
they test all the blood on Savvy because she would
have had some of Emma's blood as well. It would
have been like who's other blood is? See? Who is that?
Someone was there?

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah, and the time really didn't take this murder serious.
I mean, you're still not investigating this woman is she
can't remember? That's fine, but you're still not investigating who killed.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
This girl as a cold case. I think they just decided, yeah,
it was open.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
But like you were saying, can't trust county here you
have all this blood, she was full of blood. And
another thing I think she mentioned. Didn't she say something
to Matt like I had to do it? What did
she have to do? So Matt assumed she said I
had to kill sat But what was that that statement for?

(26:05):
I had to do? What? What did she have to do?
That was one of the things like I questioned. I'm like,
I never really got an answer for that one.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, that was part that was kind of missing.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, I had to do it and and then you know,
so yeah, that plot hole definitely.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
I'm like, no, it's a huge gaping hole. Forensics. This
was like twenty twenty, like this day, not nineteen eighty.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
No, even then, when you're a small town, you could
send that stuff somewhere. That's gonna be your line every time. Yes,
now you're gonna make me look for that. Whenever we
have another mystery and a bumbling cop or Barnie Feiffe

(26:52):
does something crazy, I'm gonna be like, Okay, what does County?
What has County missed in this missige?

Speaker 1 (26:59):
And I have to give it were credit due. That
phrase comes from creep Time podcast. They always they have
a little song when it comes on and they have
a voice that says, you can't just County. So that
is where I got it from. And I can Creak
Time Creak Time the podcast, and it's never left my

(27:20):
head since then. They talk they do true crime yeah,
it was such a perfect line and it fits every
single one of these books.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
I swear, yeah, it basically does. But yeah, but you know,
and and then I did realize too, like you know,
when they mentioned all the listen to the lie, if
you listen to the lie, and in this podcast like
which each revealed somebody, you know, a lie was revealed

(27:53):
about somebody in the town. What was let's see the mother?
And you know, I can't remember Colin, and I think
that was all those little red herrings, you know, every
time a podcast was revealed, we learned somebody else was lying,
which led to did they do it? Or did the

(28:16):
next person do it? That dunt dunt dum, which also
led us to believe, well, it can't be that one.
We can mark him off the list. Can't be that
one marked that one off the list. So so yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Although I have to admit so like as they were
revealing who lied here, who slept with who, like you know,
affairs him out, the closet lies came out, the closet
people who said they never left the wedding did leave
the wedding, Like all kinds of things were coming out.
But I have to say I was the most disgusted with,
like when it all when she had all her memories back,

(28:51):
I was really disgusted with how Matt and her parents
kind of just yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Just accepted what her friend Emmett said.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
So she said Matt, and then Matt said it to
her parents and the parents didn't know about Emmett because
Matt said he would keep a secret.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, And the thing is, like, why Matt? And that
was another thing that I did not understand between Matt
and Emmett. What was the secret? What were you keeping?
What was a secret? What was such a big secret
that you would just believe your wife would do something?

(29:32):
You know, like you know, a character. Except for all
I could think of with that secret part, when she
said I had to do it? Did that make you
just believe she did it? Because her comment was I
had to do it?

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Well, yeah, I think so, because honestly, he didn't even
like Savvy. Matt didn't like Savvy. Sav didn't like her
o him, And I think that he also said to
Lucy he thought that maybe she had did something and
it was his fault because he triggered the violence in
her the way they were messing around with each other.

(30:09):
He thought that that was his fault because she's now
a violent person and she wasn't before, but she was
I wouldn't say violent. She did something to some guy
that was doing something wrong, but she didn't like his ass.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
So yeah, I guess. So she had one incident, right,
and they tried to mark her as a well what now,
who did they say was quick to cut a bitch?
Wasn't it her?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah? They were all saying that, but there was no
proof of that. There was no it was rumored, you know,
some people started talking. There's no proof of hervations with people,
just like the people are saying that her and Savvy
were arguing, they weren't. They were not arguing at all.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
No, that's true. But yeah, that's just like I just
I really wish I knew what was the secret? And
let all I could think of is this secret that
Matt would keep would be I don't know, like, what
could you possibly keep? EMMITTT? What kind of secret would
you keep? Except for Emmett knew you like to beat

(31:18):
on on Lucy. I don't know, I.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Think, but there it was. They are both gonna say
they weren't out there, because Matt never said he was
out there, that's.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
True, he said, and when he right, and he never
revealed that Emmett was out there as well.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Right, So the secret was, well, keep a secret that
we were never here.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Right, because if I tell that I was out there,
that means I know more than true.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
And although Matt didn't even see, which is a part
of Lucy's case to her parents, Met didn't see what happened.
He just said he never saw me do it. So
why would you just assume he's telling the truth.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Oh, because he's a golden boy. Why would Matt do
something like that?

Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's wild. Yeah, most parents don't love their daughter's husband
like that. If anything crazy happened like that, they would
be looking aside eyeing him. I don't care how nice
he's been.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, no, I'm sorry, I'm just not gonna believe. Right,
you say my daughter killed somebody, right, and now.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
She can't remember the whole time. If that was my daughter,
I'm like, what the fuck did you do? And now
she can't remember anything?

Speaker 2 (32:40):
What the hell do you know that I'd been like
up in the police like something going on here. Yeah,
you guys need to do a little more investigating.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, crazy, It didn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
When you say can't can't trust County see cozy misters,
bubbling caps County. And then Savvy you know the lie
about said, Oh she was beloved. She was just the
nicest thing.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Everybody live.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
They did not love Savvy.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
No, And actually I want to talk about why people
do that, but first we're gonna take a quick break.
It's time to take a break.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Speak.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, you gotta check out these commercials by listening to
those you are supporting the podcast. While you're at it,
pick up a copy of the book review Journal available
on Amazon the Lincolns in the show notes, and we'll
be right back. Okay, welcome back. So the thing that
people do about the dead and I hate that. I
hate it. So once someone dies, suddenly they become a

(33:40):
saint and people forget all the things they did.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Cause you can't speak ill of the dead.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Fuck that if they in hell, they inhale, and I'm
gonna say everything they did.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
That is why they were ill when they were alive.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Look, that is the treatment savvy, guys. She got the
Golden girl treatment.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, because they made Lucy out to the things that
they were making Lucy out to be was actually savvy.
That characterization because I'm listening and I'm like, hmmm, y'all
flipped these two things so so yeah that they do that. Yeah,

(34:24):
I see that a lot where oh they were so
sweet and they did this and they did that, and
I was like, y'all don't remember. She was a hell
on wheels. She was hell on wheels. I'm not talking
about just other people, but yeah in general. Yeah, like
they were piece of shit doing bad stuff. But yet

(34:44):
when they passed, Oh they were awesome. It was so great.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Let God be that judge all I need, because he
sees all. What I saw was not.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I see that. Yeah. And that's the fust because that
made Lucy seem even more guilty because everyone was putting
this like Halo over savvy. They automatically said, well, obviously
one's good and one's bad.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, and I mean yeah, m hm. And they probably
just did that because she's got blood all over it
and she can't remember. It's gotta be her.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
But she had. And that's another thing. That's how crazy
she had a head wound. How do you fake a
memory loss when you clearly have a head wound. It's
not like you're saying I can't remember, but there's nothing
wrong with your head. He hit her with a freaking hammer.
She had a head wound.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, it was documented. Yeah, it was totally documented. And
I mean you can't just fake that. There's there's medical
diagnosis to prove.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
She's lucky.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
She wasn't in a cone. He knocked her upside the
head with a hand. No, that's what I was thinking too.
I'm like, this wasn't a little branch. No, I think
that he hit her with a branch first, and then
he hit.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Her with it.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
He had the hammer and then somehow switched to the branch,
and then he grabbed the hammer again and again, and
I was like, what the hell.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
I would fucking run. I feel like if someone tried
to hit me with a hammer, I would fucking run
for my life. I would just run.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, and after you hit that one time though, that blow,
I just know I got hit. I was I had
a concussion. I got hit with something pretty hard, and
that blow it makes you yeah, you're yeah, you're disoriented. Yeah,
I was hospitalized until you gave me that concussion. Tell

(36:45):
you off camp, Okay, but any who, Yeah, I was
hit with a old school telephone.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Receiver Oh my god, them things are heavy back of
my head. Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, and you are you're I mean you are literally
you're like yeah, because you're just like what For one,
it's what the fuck just happened? Because you're not sure?
And then second where you know, you're just like where
am your disoriented? It's it's a crazy ass feeling.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
And that was done by a relative. Yeah, family, honey, family, See, yeah,
that's wild. I don't know, but yeah, there was just
so many gaps in this case that didn't make sense.
And then just the whole town to turn against her

(37:44):
just seemed weird.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, and her.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Family like yeah, and then and then Ben coming in
to want to solve this, Uh, can we say or
I'm just gonna say, Granted, she didn't have good sex
in a long time, but did her and Ben really

(38:10):
have to have sex for this story? No? Was that necessary? Amy,
It was not necessary. But you know, he was hot,
she hadn't had good sex. And I'm saying this because
it was mentioned several.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Times that was the reason that was Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Again, repetition you all was used frequently in this book.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
So yeah, but I was just like, well, without the sex,
we couldn't have had the scene where she's like, I'm
gonna kill you. I said, I thought about killing you
with that cup over there with that lamp and.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Scene right, and then I strangle you right as I
get on top, right.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
And he liked it. I'm like, oh, we're doing this.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Is my face as this is my face while I
listen she's choking him and we're doing that. I'm like
that escalated.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
I'm like, really, what okay?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
I think to the point like she choked him out?

Speaker 1 (39:18):
She did? She did choke him for real. Yeah, And
that's so I was like he liked it.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
He liked it very much, and forget what they call that,
but yeah, he yeah, he liked it. And I was like, ohrighty, Amy,
come on back real sin, let's get back to the mystery.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, And how we left got to leave that scene was,
you know, after they're done doing whatever on the chair,
she's like, oh, I'll think of more ways to kill
you later something.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
I'm like, girl, what the okay? Girl? I said? And
then I'm like, okay, so did that change his mind?
Like I really got to solve this mystery now? Like
what I was that important. Why was that needed in?
It wasn't because your whole goal was just to solve
this crime, right for your season two?

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yeah? You know. Also, the author had to make us
understand how hot Lucy was and that everyone was constantly
looking at her even when she wasn't a murder suspect.
You know, she is a ten apparently.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, her grandma said, I, to all my grandchildren, you're
the most attractive.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah. So I guess two hot people had to get together.
I guess.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
Okay, guys, I think my head hurts. I rolled my
eyes so hard.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
But what else will be the reason for that?

Speaker 2 (40:49):
I don't, I know, I know I don't either, Like,
let me throw in a sex scene here, like was
it word count?

Speaker 1 (40:56):
What the fuck? We didn't need it? No, And they
still could have got back to tried to hang out
with each other again when she got back to La anyway. Yeah,
like they could have.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Like we like we could tell there was an attraction that,
you know what I mean, Like we could tell there's
an attraction there. But did we need to the point
where No.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
No, no, we did not. It was unnecessary and I
think it kind of did mess with his credibility a
little bit like why even't have the assistant there?

Speaker 2 (41:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Why what?

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Just like you're thinking with your dick again. I felt
like he's done this before. The way page was saying,
like you again, and can we talk about how they
had several rounds, several instances of unprotected.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Sex like whatever, yeah, like you're not okay, so.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
How she threw that in there a little bit like
oh I forgot.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
I know, but that was the first time, but you
continue to do it.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Mm hmm Right, I'm not raw dogging. I'm not raw
dogging all across LA.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Nope, not me, which I just think that's ridiculous. Why
would you even go to me? Why even pointed out?
If you're gonna have them keep doing it, let us
think what we want to think, Like.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, that's again why she should have just stuck to mystery,
because a romance author would have fixed all that, you
know what I mean, Like they make sure when they're
putting those type of elements in a book, it's gonna
be either you know, like consent unprotected. It's all gonna

(42:40):
be figured out. This was just it was.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
It really was messy. Everybody sleeping with each other.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, y'all all nasty the mom and daddy just how nothing.
I don't even go there. It was just it was
this small town.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
In their marriage.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Everybody it should be some some steps, some half siblings
all over that town.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
So Savvy's high school best friend, Nina, was sleeping around
on her husband they got divorced. Nina was messing around
with Matt.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Mm hmm, which is Lucy's ex husband.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yep, yep, and then which she still was messing around
with him to this day.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Mm hmm, yep.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Lucy's mom was sleeping with Nina's boyfriend at the wedding,
and they may or may not have been sleeping together
before and after.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, she claimed it was a one time thing or something.
That's what the mother claimed, but we don't know for
fact because the father had ongoing affairs. Lucy's dead, But.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Lucy said Nina didn't complain, So I think my might
have came went back.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
She might.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
She young buck, I think she might have to. Yeah,
Grandma had more than one suitor coming to her place. Yeah,
Grandma had a roster, and then of course Savvy she
had a starting line. Yeah, grandma had a start.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
She did, and she's like, yeah, that's a different guy.
From yesterday and so what.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
So we had.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Granny, Lucy, Savvy, who else, Nina, everybody the pair.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Everybody was nasty.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, because then Savvy messed around and slept with Emmett
because she was drunk. That's what started that whole way.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Did she sleep? Oh wait, Savvy did, Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Lucy did no because she said, I you know, I
slept with him once and he's aggressive aggressive.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, and she's like, even know, you know, I like
it a little.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Rud and look, that's so funny.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
At that point when Savvy tells Lucy, Lucy's like, she
knew I kind of liked him. And then she said,
wait a minute, I said in that moment, I said, girl,
you're married. What are you talking about? And then she said, yeah,
I'm married. I can't get mad. That's your best fucking friend. Yeah,

(45:27):
she was gonna be like what she sleep with him?
She knew he was on my list. She did not
know he was on your You treated him like a friend, yes,
but she that Emmett has been in love with her
forever since high school.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
She did know that, and but you married, she's married,
That's all I was like, So what.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
She made around you? Said, he's a future of possible
he opened, Yeah, he's hoping, but it turned out to
be not worth it anyway, because he's gross nasty. Oh
y'all nasty, just a nasty plumping, just the fucking plump, yeah,

(46:13):
pumping and plumpting. Yeah, basically, I mean because they all
just they all need to line up at the clinic right.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Around the town.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
God nasty, yes, girl, Yeah, that's what I was like,
if I hear somebody else then slept with somebody else,
because even Lucy was like, don't tell me being you're
you're screwing my grandma, And I was like, not if.
I don't think Granny would go for that, No.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Because she knew that they were kind of looking at
each other's side. I don't think Granny would do that.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
No, But yeah, that's what I was saying, Like, some
of this stuff really did remind me of some cozy mystery,
but I know all the other elements, you know, the
you know it doesn't fit, but it did remind me.
It gave me some cozy mystery vibes.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
It was given me lifetime movie vibes that too.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, Now did you enjoy Lucy's sarcasm at times because
you know, and I asked that because you know, you
read a romance book where there was a lot of
banter in sarcasm and you didn't like it the male character.

(47:36):
So I was wondering, how did you like it here?

Speaker 1 (47:39):
I think this time it didn't bother me like it
didn't the other situation. But I think because then wasn't
trying to be her fucking daddy her, you know.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Yeah, And I think she did that as a defense mechanism. Yeah,
you know, I think she used her sarcasm as a
defense mechanism. Yeah, because she felt like, hey, everybody thinks
I'm guilty anyway.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Yeah, and Bill actually says that before her interview. Remember,
he says, you know, she comes off this way that
like flippant basically, but she's like this about serious topics.
So that's just kind of her personality.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to kind of see how
did choose.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
It's like now that I think about it some more,
because that other book.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
And that's how totally different. I didn't think he was
trying to be your day. I just thought he was
trying to be protective, knowing try to tell her how
to act, how to do Okay, look, we're gonna talk
about that.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
And now if you want to know what book we're
talking about, come back in the after show topic that
we're gonna talk a little bit about that book because
I'll tell you all the problems I had.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Okay, all right, super to close this out because we
are we are, we are probably moving on. I'm trying
to think, do I have any more notes about this book?
I think let me look, let me look, I got
one more spot I had some note. No, I think
we did talk about I did January Lavoy could do

(49:21):
no wrong for me, so as far as narrators, and
I don't know, did you check to see what else
he has done? Because I liked him too.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Actually I know some of the stuff he's done, but
I can't really remember any of it right now. Okay, Yeah,
I feel like I actually interviewed him too, back in
the day on the podcast, I interviewed him.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Oh yeah, I just don't know. I don't know if
i've before. Yeah, That's what I'm trying to get in
there now. Oh, you're gonna give me a damn code.
I love to.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
Did you know that they were married? Who? January LaVoi?
And we'll no, yeah, they got married. I'm just googling it.
They got married in twenty two.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
Get out of here.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
They are married.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Oh he's done some freedom mcfatten books the tenant. Let's
see what else. Looks like he's done a lot of fantasy. Well,
the covers look like fantasy. Look closer, there it is there.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
It is.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Because I'm like, it sounded familiar, but I just couldn't remember.
But yeah, look closer. He did. He did Bride by
Alie Hazelwood. You've listened to that.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
I'm trying to think anything else that looks familiar. So
at least we know those two mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Yeah, okay, yeah, so you listen to him.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Oh look at January she didn't got murried. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
I like her. I like her a lot. So let's
rate it. Should we go ahead and rate it? Yes,
all right, I'll let you go first.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
I gave it a three.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Okay, oh, oh that's fair. No, I think I'm gonna
give it a three. Two.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
It was like she gave it a four.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
No I didn't, which is fine. I actually so, yeah,
there were some things I liked, but it was just
when it was all said and done, it was really
just an average installment. Unfortunately. I think though I would
maybe try Amy Tintera again.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah. Yeah, it's not like I didn't I hated her,
not at all, but like you, like, this was it
was nothing spectacular about this story that stood out so
much to me that I just had to be like,
oh my god, like like you, like we always say
A three is it was good.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
It's perfectly fine.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I recommend it. If one of my friends say, I'm
looking for a good book to read, what would you recommend? Not?

Speaker 1 (52:37):
This won't be it. Yeah, it wasn't high enough. I
only recommend like fours and fives.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Really yeah, yeah, and you know, this might be a
good starter mystery. This might be a good starter mystery book. Yeah,
for someone who's like trying to get into it mysteries,
this might be good because it's it's nothing really complex. Yep,

(53:06):
you know so I think this might be a good
starter book for a mystery person. Yeah, it's nothing too graphic,
you know, like I can't give everybody Karen Slaughter.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Right Unfortunately not you know.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Look at you, boy, you were like, oh no.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yeah, I feel like I want to do some more,
you know, do some Karen I do I feel like
I want to she's got a new one out, does she?

Speaker 2 (53:35):
We are all guilty? I think that's a standalone too.
Oh wait, let's close this out.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Okay. Oh, actually I did find the interview because I
was like, am I losing my mind? Did I not
talk to that man? I had to find it. I
even't did a giveaway for the audiobook that was a
long time ago, back in twenty seventeen.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Which audiobook did you give away?

Speaker 1 (53:59):
The ter centennial baron? It was something that he had did,
and I know I didn't read it, Okay, so I
don't really remember. I just remember someone reached out to
me and asked, because.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
I guess sure, yeah, yeah, I'm like back in the
day when you would just yeah, like I was interviewing
people back in the day, Yeah, you were, you were.
It was exhausting, y'all. I got burnt out. I was
burnt out. Yeah, because a lot of those Yeah, oh,
maybe we could talk about that too at the end,

(54:34):
because that, you know, that was a lot. Because not
everybody follows the rules.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Right girl, I have stories for days, you know what? Thought.
I actually am thinking about doing interviews again, but maybe
on a supplemental podcast. I've been thinking up ideas, So
I don't know if I want to infiltrate shelf addiction
with that again. Because we've found our audience, we found
our pace. But I might have something supplemental if I

(55:05):
have somebody I really want to talk to. But it's
going to be really curated. It's not gonna be a
bunch of random people.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Right exactly, Yeah exactly, because yeah, because you know you've
already probably read there something in their catalog or listen
to them, and I will say that is becoming a
thing again. You know a lot of authors now are

(55:37):
wanting that to be on a podcast or IG Live
and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
I have a short list already. I would love to
talk to Essay. I would love to talk to Essay Cosby.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Yes, can we get in your inbox? Essay?

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Please, sir?

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Yeah we could, Like do we need to do that one? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:03):
You know, do we need to put up pictures and
be like and do tweets? Do some tweets like look
remember us? Do you remember love?

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Like it's to day.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
It's a couple other people that are on my short list.
You know, I would love to get into that again.
But again, it's not gonna be what it was, so
when and if it comes back, it's not gonna be
the same iteration as before.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Hey, when you know better, you do better. I was
yea and and new to the scene, right, and everybody's like, yeah,
just hopping on now. Like you said, it'll be more
curated and it won't be as time consuming.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Got that right, Yeah, because I love.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
That idea for you.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Yeah, So we'll see, We'll see how it goes. I
got ideas.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, and especially with as many books as we've read,
like you could throw out there, Hey, we reviewed your book.
We'd love to get on your podcast. I mean, we
would love to have you on the podcast. It doesn't
have to be long. It could be you know, like
you said, thirty minutes short.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
I'm talking about short interviews, y'all. Actually, before I was
trying my hardest to get it down to thirty minutes
because some of them were long. But I'm trying to
get it down so I have, Like I said, I
have lots of ideas on the interview style I'm gonna
go with. But we'll test it out, probably talk about
it some more, and we'll see how it goes. But yeah,
I love that for you. Yeah, I feel like, why not?

(57:32):
I feel like I want to do it again. So
as long as it's feeling good, why not. When it
starts feeling like blah again, I'll quit.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yeah, I'd love to talk to you about that later. Yeah,
you know your short list, and if you can get
at least how many off your short list, will you
just do it and see if your audience and you know, say, hey, audience, how.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
How do you like it?

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Yep, look at you, Tamra. Yeah, I gotta do some stuff.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Okay, yep, yep, all.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Right, So we're gonna end things there. We could tell
you what we're reading next, but I need to confirm
that with Classy in the after show. So if you
are on Patreon, you will already know confirm yes, because
that's going up on Patreon, you know, any day now.

(58:29):
So those people get to know ahead of time, so
they know far in advance what books they need to get,
what's on deck, so they're not going to be surprised. Ye, yes,
all right, So this has been a fun episode. Thanks
for listening to the entire thing. We appreciate you for
doing that, and we'll catch you in the next one.
Until then, take care of yourselves. Bye guys, Bye. Did

(58:57):
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(59:17):
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(59:39):
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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Secrets and Lies in a Small Town: Reviewing Listen for the Lie | Book Chat