Unraveling 'The Ghostwriter': A Deep Dive | #BuddyReads Book Chat - Shelf Addiction Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, book lovers, Welcome back to shelf Addiction, the podcast
where we dive deep into the pages of thriller and
fantasy reads. I'm your host, Tamara, and today we are
discussing our July Buddy Read title. But first a quick
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(00:23):
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forget to subscribe and leave us a review wherever you're listening.
Speaking of community, I am thrilled to welcome back my

(00:43):
fabulous thriller mystery cost and friend Classy from the Bookish
Virtual Assistant. Welcome back, Classy.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hey Tamra. How are you?

Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm doing all right? How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm doing pretty good.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
The links to find both of us on our socials
are in the show notes, so quickly around do all
the things. We appreciate you for doing that. As always
with book chats. We talk full spoilers here, so spoiler
alert you've been borned. Today we are discussing The Ghostwriter,
written by Julie Clark. The audiobook is narrated by Ellen Archer,

(01:18):
Katie Score, and Josh Hurley. Published June third, twenty twenty
five by Source Books and Audible Studios. The hardcover is
three hundred and twenty eight pages. The unabridged audio is
ten hours and eighteen minutes. Classy, would you kindly share
the synopsis?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes? June nineteen seventy five, The Taylor family shatters in
a single night when two teenage siblings are found dead
in their own home. The only surviving sibling, Vincent, never
shakes the whispers and accusations that he was the one
who killed them. Decades later, the legend only grows as
his career as a horror writer. Skyrocket ghostwriter Olivia Dumont

(01:59):
has spent her entire professional life hiding the fact that
she is the only child of Vincent Taylor. Now on
the brink of financial ruin, she's offered a job to
ghost write her father's last book. What she doesn't know, though,
is that this project is another one of his lies.
Because it's not another horror novel he wants her to write.

(02:20):
After fifty years of silence, Vincent Taylor is finally ready
to talk about what really happened that night in nineteen
seventy five.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Good synopsis, Yeah, totally, Okay, let's kick things off with
our high level two cents. What'd you think?

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I thought it was a good story. I like the
way Julie tells the story. I did figure out who
the killer was early.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
On, but.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
It did not stop me from wanting to hear how
Julie weave this story. So yeah, I thought it was
a very good story, a very good mystery with a
lot of secrets. And I almost wanted to say, I

(03:20):
wish what book did we read last month?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Parents Weekend?

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yes, I kind of wished Oh got his name? Just
Andrew Finley, Alex Oh Got Girls. I almost wish like
Alex would have did a little bit with his story.
How Julie did this story? Okay? And I don't want

(03:51):
to delve too much into it because I had to
kind of go back and think about Alex's story, But
I felt like, see, this is how a story could
shit be told. If you're gonna go you know, and
she didn't have a lot of characters, but it was
just something about the story. I like the way she
tells the story, you know, like you said, even though

(04:13):
we knew who killed and an audience, it wasn't a
fact that she reveals it to us. I think just
Tamer and I just from context clues and little statements,
we probably figured it out. But it didn't ruin it.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
For me, right, yeah, because there was still the how, Right,
we still had to figure out the how, which was
the why, yeah, and the why.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
So because even though I figured the way, but you know, brain.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Sat where we're looking, we're looking for it.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
And that's the other thing is like sometimes I gotta
like turn that off because it's just enjoy the book,
just to enjoy the book. But then like when you're
doing these podcasts and you gotta you know, kind of
talk about these things, it's like, but I also got
to pay attention. Yeah, but yeah, it's hard to turn
your brain off of wait a minute, you know, just
investigative mode.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
So I also pretty much enjoyed the book. I think
though the pacing was a little inconsistent, some parts were
much faster than others, so it'd be like We're going
at a good clip, and then things would just slow
all the way down. And I don't know if it's
the amount of details or the pacing of how she

(05:35):
chose to disclose the little bits of information. I'm not
sure what messed with the pacing exactly, but you know,
when I got to like the back end of the book,
it was really I was just really excited for the reveal, right,
So I think that kept me. I kept it moving
because I was like, come on, tell me.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Tell me.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, am I right, well have it?

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
It Actually I think that the story was actually a
little sad at the end. I kind of was like, oh, dang,
that's sad.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
It was, Yeah, it really was. It was a sad story.
But yeah, I felt the same way with the pacing.
It was like that middle piece, you know, like the
the reveal of her dad and his illness and and
his memory. All that was like oh oh, and then

(06:29):
it's like that little middle piece. It's like, Okay, it
was a nice little lull there, and I think, you know,
especially and it wasn't done a lot like when she
would visit her her her classmate, it was a jack
or whatever, you know, like those little pieces, and I
was like, like, was those fillers? I wasn't sure, Yeah,

(06:52):
but there were? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Well the classmate made sense, you know it? Did you
know who I could have done without? I could have
done without time. I don't give a f about Tom.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yes, but yeah, but Jack did have had reason. But
you know, everybody needs somebody in their life because.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Tom is a baby. Go somewhere, Go somewhere. Put your
big dude drawers on, sir, he from.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
And the relationship, look, lying was was it was a no,
you know, was a.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
So at first, I gotta be honest. At first, I
was like, oh, look at somebody having some kind of
moral ground and standing on it. Okay, I kind of
can see it. But you know, we all know that
this guy is imperfect and he needs to get off
his high horse. I'm sure he's like he acts like
he is. She yes, and he is the prize and

(07:59):
how dare you you? And for some reason, the way
he did that just totally was a total turn off.
Like I understand being mad, but you're gonna like block
her basically, you're gonna ignore her like she You're trying
to punish hers that what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
You're out like reasoning for the lie.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, yeah, I did not like how the author wrote
Tom because even though they managed to get it together
in the end, I was still like, you know what,
af I don't give a that part.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
I was like I was. I didn't care if they
got together or not. At the end, I really didn't.
All I wanted to her was to get out of
that financial buyd. That was it that I wanted for her.
But yeah, I didn't care if her and Time got back.
I wasn't like, oh happy they ever after. I didn't
care about it. H Ea, not at all.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Kick rocks to go playing traffic, toime get little?

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Time. Get little is you know, like how well you
look at your rear mirror and you keep driving in
the that reflection that get smaller and smaller. Yeah, yeah,
get little? Yeah but no, but yeah, but I did.
But Jack was important. But you know, I did feel

(09:17):
like there was some little fillers, not a lot, but
the pacing was inconsistent. But then you think about it too,
like how much could she continue at that nice clip
with this story too? Because she had to do research.

(09:38):
She she was balked at, you know, like there were
certain things that she she you know, she had to
cover up her lives, so, you know, like with so
that pacing, I get it, because she can't go at
such a fast pace and keep that up with writing
this story her dad and his fits of anger due

(10:02):
to his illness, you know, trying to find trying to
get information from him. So yeah, and yeah, so I
get it. But yes, I agree.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
So there were a lot of things I did like
about the book. So the ending was good. You know,
I like a strong ending that doesn't necessarily have a
happily ever after, especially when you're dealing with so many
lies and murder and deceit. You know, you're not really
going to get that exactly. You want to feel some

(10:35):
vindication for the main character, and I do feel like
she got that with that awful, dreadful guy that suited her. Yeah,
so I mean I felt that, you know, Olivia ended
up in a good place, and I was happy for that.
And I also liked how the author went to nineteen

(10:56):
seventy five because thosements really pulled the story together. Because
her father was an unreliable narrator and he was on purpose,
which was annoying playing games with your own daughter.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yes, well, he was playing Scavenger hunt, and that's what
really got me. I was like, wait a minute, when
he's kept saying he did it with her, and I
was like, fuck, he also did it with Poppy.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Mm hmmm. Yeah, he likes to He's an unusual character.
He's an unusual person.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
He was socially uncured.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
She was, and you could tell from how and I
guess also the flashbacks help us understand how his family
dynamics were, which kind of created him to be socially awkward.
He didn't have a great relationship with his brother. His
mother was an alcoholic. His father was just like, I

(12:02):
don't know, he just kind of let the kids.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
He was in nineteen seventies daddy, you know, that's what
he was. Yeah, he was a seventies father.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
I went to work, I paid the bills, beat it twerk.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Came home, Yeah, came home. Where's my drink?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Where's my dinner? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:25):
Those kids, those they did not get along very well.
The brothers. I've never had brothers, so I think if
I was Poppy, I don't know, I'd be trying to
beat bang those brothers on top of the head with
a pot or something. I'll be trying to beat them
up constantly, y'all not gonna like constantly threaten my life

(12:45):
on a regular basis.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
What is this girl was fighting for her life. She
was fighting for her life in that house.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
She was I'm like, these brothers, I'm like, are they
actually gonna like do something to her or what? Because
they are very mean to her, and they were very
violent toward her at times, like enough where she felt like,
oh my god, I have to hide this or he's
gonna kill me.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, you know, yeah, but when she was not kidding, no,
and back then they didn't respect girls as you know,
as they do now. You know, it was basically even
her mother, you know, oh, a woman should be seen
and not heard. What are you doing all this pro
woman stuff? And you know you just need to you know,

(13:33):
basically marry and have children is the thought of that time.
So it seemed like Vince did have a little It's
like there were moments she described where she did like them.
There were moments she saw little subtleties of they're good,

(13:56):
but these are some badass boys, like they were mischiefs,
and but there were little moments that she did enjoy
her brothers, you know, like she did like the Scavenger Hunt.
That she saw the soft sides of them, the lovable sides,
but she also knew that underneath all that too was

(14:20):
some some violent tendencies. But it was that that unreliable
narrator that was. I loved how she did that. If
I want to go back to Julie's writing, I love
how she how she wrote the unreliable narrator. She did

(14:41):
that with Vince and also with the reels from Poppy.
Mm hmmm, because she wouldn't reveal everything to us through
the through the lens of Poppy there we was just
she would just drop little little hints, so you weren't

(15:02):
sure for a while.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Well, that was. It was very smart how she did that.
The reals didn't have audio until the last one, so
every time Olivia would see something, obviously she's like, this
is not what he said happened, right, But you still
have no context. You don't know exactly when this was.

(15:25):
You don't know a lot of things. So she's just
working off her worst assumptions about her father.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, but even when the story was told from Poppy's end,
is what I'm saying. You know, even from Poppy, when
Poppy's chapters would come in and she would say, you know,
different comments. There were times where you weren't sure she
was referring to Danny or Vincent until she you know,

(15:54):
maybe like the next chapter, or she would just you know,
she's like, yeah, I followed them, and then this, this
and that, and you would know. And that was that
suspent portion, that where she would have you on the edge,
like who which brother is? She probably yeah, you know.
So that's why I really liked how she did the
unreliable how she did it from both from Poppies and

(16:18):
I won't say unreliable, maybe that's the wrong term to say,
but maybe unreliable from the Lynz part. Like when Poppy
told her story, she didn't reveal everything or which character
or which brother it was until you know, maybe like
the next chapter, at the end of the next chapter.
But she would leave us with a cliffhanger every once

(16:40):
in a while.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, and ultimately the author left something for just the reader,
like Poppy told us stuff. Yeah that vents in Olivia
never knew they made some assumption that I thought that
was very unique.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
That was so clever.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, yeah, like wow, so we're like looked from the
dead from the dead yes, a ghost is telling the story.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, two chapters. She gave us two chapters of that.
I really enjoyed that. I thought that was I was like,
nice job, Julie, nice job.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
That was really good. I liked that, and I did
like that the Vince and Olivia they made some solid
and correct assumptions based on just when they finally were
able to, like when Vince was able to stave off
his sickness long enough, and when Olivia was finally able
to just say, look that this is what I found.

(17:39):
Let's look at this what happened here? And it kind
of just unlocked. The floodgates opened and everything that was
blocked kind of just came out. And they by working
together walking, you know, during his well moments, they were
able to figure out what they think happened, because we
find out that he didn't really know what happened. Yeah,

(18:03):
he disassociated, well, he was knocked out after that. Yeah, yeah,
grabbed the NiFe out of the house. I'm like, what
the hell? Who does that? A teenager?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I guess m h. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, that was really unique the way she did that.
I thought that was very special and I thought it
worked out great. I felt really bad for Poppy and
Jimmy Anvince. I'm like, that's horrible.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah right, because the first chapter she when she revealed
to us, it was just like, did Danny do this?
That's how I was like. I was listening, like I'm
in the car right coming back from the gym, and
I'm like, Danny, Yeah, yeah, it was like, did Danny
stab her?

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Oh my god, it seemed like it. At first, it
seemed like it. It seemed like it it did.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
And then you know, and then yeah, like you said,
I loved how she did that. She did bravo and
like that's how you end a damn book.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Although like like we said, we guessed, so even though
the author had to, Julie Clark had to get us there.
I knew the minute Poppy said she caught something on
tape in the woods with Danny. I said, oh no,
that fucking teacher. He likes boys. I knew it immediately.

(19:28):
I didn't have to hear or see anything. I'm like,
oh shit, the way he reacted, I said, oh, that
is exactly what that is.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, he's got busted. Yeah, and yeah it wasn't you
got busted with a girl, Yeah, yeah it was. It
was it was shame, It wasn't.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yeah, but yeah, but that made me think that maybe,
like Danny poking at Vince the whole time about his girlfriend,
about his future wife.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
You know, I said, is he trying to get vinceca
go over there and pound that man's face in? I'm like,
is he trying to goat him into doing something to
that man?

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Right?

Speaker 2 (20:10):
And he has violent tendencies? Yeah, yeah, because also.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
He'd be saying, oh, whoever takes her to get the
procedure must be the daddy. Why would he do that
other than he's trying to goat him into running over
there and pounding that guy's face into the ground.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah, but he wasn't sure if the guy did or
did not impregnate Lydia because you know, he just didn't know.
All he knew is that the teacher was taking kids
to the shed, So he doesn't know. Maybe he possibly
did think Lydia was a victim too.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Who thought that Danny thought that?

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah? I don't think Danny didn't know he was the
father of Lydia's baby. He knew he had sex with her,
but he didn't know he was the father.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Well, yeah, he didn't know that for sure. But I
guess I would not assume that Danny thought that she
was a victim of the teacher, because he knew what
was going on in the shed. Danny knew, he knew
what was going on on those boys trips out in
the wood. Danny knew what kind of person he liked. True,

(21:24):
So I don't think he really thought I can't even
think of the mother's name right now. Was it Lydia?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Yeah, Lydia, Lydia?

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay, So I don't think he even thought Lydia had
anything to do with that teacher. He just other than
him helping her. That's why I wondered, like, is he
really just trying to manipulate his brother into beating that
guy up?

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Okay, I didn't. I never thought of it that way,
never thought of it that way. I just thought of, Hey,
he was a super nice teacher, and you know he
could have did both ways.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Well. At the beginning, when she was hanging out with
the teacher getting all the show, I said, some is
off with that. First off, what instructor what teacher is
gonna take someone to have a procedure. Then, even in
the seventies, you're not suppos' supposed stay away from that. Yeah,
especially you're a man. You're not even a woman. You're

(22:22):
not a woman helping a woman. You're just some dude.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah. But he liked her because of her ability, Like
he knew she had a strong you know, like she
liked track. I think he took a genuine liking to her,
you know, possibly getting a scholarship, Like she said, he
knew my mom was not a good mom. So I

(22:47):
have seen some teachers who have gone overboard or across
that line. And not to say cross the line like
with the student, but like, you shouldn't do that. I
know you have a good heart, but you need to
back up off this right here or you can, you know,
or it's gonna get misconstrued.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
You're gonna get yourself in trouble.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, and and it did she wind up? Did? I
mean there was no allegations, but she was pulled in
and was reprimanded for like, I know, what you're doing
is great, but how how it looks is not great.
But I think that's what I think. He took a
genuine liking to her. You know, he he was a coach.

(23:31):
He saw her potential having a baby at that age
would ruin her opportunities to go to college. And I
think he genuinely which is looking out for her. Yes,
you shouldn't have done it, But.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I don't know. I think, yeah, I think two things
can be true in this case. I do think he
did want to help her. But he was also serving
alcohol minors that he was There is no common boys he.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
I could say that would coming too, but yeah, serving alcohol, girl,
they did that. Yeah, that was not uncommon.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I don't know. It just seems like he wasn't a
good but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
He he was groomy. It was basically groomy when you
when you have parties like that where you're just leaving
liquor out there for kids, you're groomy them because you're
trying to I'm cool, won't you just hang out with me,
have a couple of beers and and different things.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Hiding in a plain sight because he'd have all the
girls like, oh he's so nice, Oh he's so cute,
and you know, right, so he was kind of hiding
in playing sight.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
So he didn't seem like a weirdo by taking the
boys out for a you know, the boys scouting in
the woods. Yeah, learn some man, Some manstuff.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
But I do remember something in the beginning of the
story where they were saying, you know, these courses that
he was taking, and then I think Vince or can't
remember who said it, and then he kind of changed,
you know, or maybe that was just my assumption as
reading the story, where Danny was taking these classes and

(25:13):
he was like, yeah, you should take these classes, and
then all of a sudden he stopped or he didn't
want to do them anymore. But and like I said,
I can't remember if Julie said this in the story
or it was just something as a reader as you're
listening you see where Danny had changed, or was it

(25:37):
the imagery that Vince had given us that Danny had changed.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
So I think the one bit of information that was
missing Helosa, I just missed it is I don't have
a clear understanding how long that was going on with
Danny and the teacher, because you know that happened when
he was taking that class. Was that two your yars ago,
one year ago? How long has this been going on?

(26:02):
And then when the man moved next door, that was
like the final straw, like you know, that was it
like the man's next door to me? Now? And he
was one year older. And I want to say, so
he might have been a senior in high school at
that point.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, he was seventeen when he died.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
So yeah, so I'm thinking, was that junior year, sophomore year?
How long was that going on before he started showing
his ass by you know, setting shuts on fire and
you know, writing what do you call it?

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh? I think it was one It was the seventy five, right,
wasn't that nineteen seventy five?

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Because seventy five is when the tip over happened. That
was the year that the kids died. But we don't
know how long.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Well, remember when Poppy and Margo we're talking about. I
think she wrote it in her diary. It was like
because it started I think in March, right, one of
her first reels or something was labeled March, and then
she would write in her diary because I remember Olivia

(27:16):
was trying to match the reels up with the diary
entries and she had mentioned.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Okay, so let's see, I'm looking through now, so there's
nothing before seventy five. That is the oldest period. Right,
you're saying that all of this happened to Danny in
nineteen seventy five from beginning to end.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Well, I know, the like the burning of the sheds
and the slicing of the balls and stuff like that.
I believe that happened within that year's time. But like
you're saying, some of this stuff may have occurred before hand,
maybe like the year or two before, because he didn't

(28:01):
get by the house until I'm thinking.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Like seventy seventy five is when he moved over there, right, But.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Like the fires and all that happened during that time.
So like you're saying, he may have done something to
him prior to the year before, but we don't catch
we are not right, we're not giving information of Danny's
we're given information. Well we didn't even even know it

(28:29):
was Danny who was doing it. But like the fires
and the shed you know, all the destruction and the
graffiti and different and the killing of the cat, you
know all that stuff was seventy five because that's because
it was corroborated with poppies, diary entries and some are

(28:49):
hur reals.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Which makes me think like that's when it boiled over.
This man moved next door.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well you think about it March, so he probably Marches,
what third month in so yeah, he probably he was
doing something the prior year.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah, so I'm looking back, So we go back to
March eighth, April twenty sixth, May second, May six, May eighth,
May tenth, and they died in May June, like.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Right before June thirteenth.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah. Yeah, so that's like as we got closer, we
were leading in. So probably Danny was escalating a little
bit as they got closer to the end of the
school year. After that, Fool moved next door.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, having these parties. Yeah, yeah, so I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
It's crazy, but that guy, you know at the end
of the book, turns out he was prolific. Yeah, decades
he was messing around with students, and it came out
people started telling after one you know, when someone opens
the door, other people come out.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Ye.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
So that's wild, and it's like if only he could
have And Poppy was trying to get him to tell.
She's like, you need to tell. I'm going to fucking
tell if.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
You can't tell. And when she said that, I was like, oh, yes, yeah, confirmed.
But I got a question for you though, yeah, because
you said soon as Poppy recorded or caught Danny on
that reel and she was like, Oh, he's going to
kill me. He's going to kill me. Now, did you

(30:25):
like I knew Lydia had what Lydia had done early
on in the book. Did you know that or are
you just saying about the teacher?

Speaker 1 (30:33):
No, you mean no, I knew something was wrong with her.
Ok I mean that she was pregnant.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
No, that she killed Oh?

Speaker 1 (30:41):
Okay, So no, I did not suspect that, but I
knew something. I knew something was off when when she
went to her mom's door and she showed up there.
I was like, hold on something.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Oh see, I knew like in Chester fourteen.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
And this knew she killed him and then she killed Danny.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
So the men, I was sure she killed both of them.
At first, I was like, because I wrote it down,
I'm like, chapter fourteen, did Lydia kill them? Okay?

Speaker 1 (31:11):
So reason for fourteen was I think that was Poppy's chapter. No,
it was sandwich between Poppy. So okay, Poppy was did
May six and then fourteen, and then Poppy May eighth
and then fifteen, So it was sandwich between two of
her inserts.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Okay. So there was a comment that a reporter or
something asked Lydia Olivia's mom, why would why would you
let your child live with a murderer? And she said
I would never or something like or a person like that,
and she's like, I would never let my child live

(31:50):
with a murder. And it hit me right then and there.
That's why she left because she could not her conscious
could not allow her to raise a child knowing she
killed someone. And then the dad had mentioned trauma bonding. Yeah, yes,

(32:11):
and I'm like, granted they were friends, but how much
trauma did Lydia actually have in the death of Vincent's
sister and brother.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
See, at the very least at that point, at the
very least, I was like, she was there and saw it.
I thought she at the very least she was there
and saw it. Yeah, and that would bond them together
because I knew what happened.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, because he's like, you know that maybe we shouldn't
have got married. You know what they call that trauma
bond And I was like, okay, yeah, and I was like,
I think she killed but at that point, I thought
she killed both of them. But I'm like she had
something to do with it, because that's why, you know, like,
why would a mother leave like that, and then for

(32:57):
the dad to still love her unconditionally like that. And
then the more we kept hearing like that was his password,
Rebecca whatever the mother's name was his password for his email,
and then come to find out she he was still
paying her rent, and I was just like, ooh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
He was honestly obsessed with that woman from the beginning.
He was obsessed with her.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
Yeah, the it was there, it was on the wall,
it was right there. But I'm like, she at least
and I didn't say she did it, but I did
say she at least was there, knew it was there,
and knew what happened. That's immediately what I thought. But
I felt like it was the teacher that did it,
and both things are true. The teacher did something and
then she did something.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I eventually started thinking, like the teacher
did something, but I'm like, Lydia, Lydia's got something to
do with this story and that dad is protecting her.
But yeah, but Julie did it, you know, Like that's
the thing, Like, that's what I knew that at the beginning.
But I still enjoyed the way she unraveled this story

(34:15):
to us. She did a great job.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, she did. It was very interesting, lots of twists,
lots of discoveries. Brother, Yeah, it's very wild how something
like that could happen. And it's like all and when
you think about Olivia's like last like, I guess, explain explainer,
I guess when she talks about all I had to

(34:39):
do is like run outside instead of running into my bedroom.
She should be alive, right, because there was all those
people outside. Run outside. Someone comes to your house and
threatened you run outside, don't run to your bedroom, lesson

(35:00):
to everyone right outside. Yeah, yeah, but that's crazy. They
could all still be alive.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, very true.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, Yeah, that's wild. And it's like she almost felt
like seeing her talk beyond the grave was so creepy
and it's like seeing her death from her perspective was like, damn,
that was a lot that was impactful. She's just kind
of like talking about how her body feels as things

(35:31):
are happening, and like she sees her brother, she sees
her brother, she can't really talk.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, that was and did a good job. Yeah, and
the narrative did a good job with those last moments
of life, Like you could tell that she was kind
of you know, because she says she could barely breathe. Yeah,
she got stabbed and then and.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
And you don't. Honestly, that is something also very unique.
A lot of these books. We rarely get the victim's
point of view. We rarely get that, especially in the
final moments. But to get that, because she had to
tell us what happened, she's the only one that could.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, yeah, so that came up. I was just like
I was, I was that was it all. I was like,
what we get to see?

Speaker 1 (36:24):
I was riveted in those parts. I was like, oh
my gosh, that's awful.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah. And then to get a second, you know, like
the first one, I was like, okay, and then to
hear her one more time, I was just like, oh
my god, yeah, yeah, that was.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Very well done. It was yikes, like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, yeah, it was a good story. It was a
good story. Yeah. I don't know what else to say.
I think she did a great job.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Actually, I think let's take a break. I have a
couple more things I want to bring up. Good, good, Okay,
I want to hear it all right, gotta check out
these commercials. By doing that, you are supporting the podcast.
When we come back, we'll finish our conversation, we'll rate
the book, and we'll share what's next. Okay, welcome back.
I want to talk a little bit about Olivia and

(37:24):
her personality and how she decided to manage her project
with her father. Okay, because honestly, so, it's like we
knew immediately that obviously she was gonna work with her
father reluctantly, but she kept that secret for a long time,

(37:46):
and so she kind of had to give it up.
But in the midst of that, she's doing stuff like,
I'm just gonna check this man's emails all the time
and respond to other writers.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
She's hey, then gave her just clean that mess up.
She's like, Okay, she went.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
In there and started like basically emailing back and forth
with the guy who's trying to take her job. Whole
sued her pants off, and she owed a ton of
money to this man or what libel or something like
out there. She went to court and had to pay
this man.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
She was going to lose her house, right, was it
like half a million or something, five hundred thousand or something.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, a lot of money. So she sees his email
pop up and he's trying to convince her father to
swap authors because I can do it better.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
And she's like, what the like, you will not do
this to me again.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
I thought that was pretty funny. I think it added
a little bit of relief to all the seriousness of
what was going on, even though it really didn't make
I guess it didn't. I guess kind of it did
end up something did happening to that guy, because ultimately
she ended up being caught on the computer and the

(39:16):
father's like, what are you doing at my desk?

Speaker 2 (39:19):
And the thing was is like, but dad, you told
me to do your emails. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
He wasn't happy about it though, and he's like, I
should kill that guy. She like what He's like, I'm
just saying it. I'm not like that.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
I ain't finished this book yet either day. Don't say
nothing like that, she said, and her father like, you
suspect number one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
So I think that that whole sub story with her
was interesting kept because she didn't have a lot of
her own story.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
No, no, right, because all we knew is that she
was a little sassy. But I did think that part
did kind of give way to her personality, Like you
were saying. And then in the end, her dad did
mention how much she reminded him of Poppy, you know,
because we did hear when he went to parents' weekend.

(40:16):
Oh you know what, I think that's probably what got
me with Alex Finley parents weekend. Remember her dad went
for parents weekend when she went to boarding school, and
the teacher was like, yes, she started this club and
blah blah blah, and he's like, that's not what I
paid you to go to school for. But you know,
she was very strong willed, and her replying to that

(40:39):
email just solidified Yeah, she is strong willed. She tried,
and she tried. Liked how she she typed out the email.
Okay delete fuck you no, she said, And she's like
and then she checked it in five minutes. Okay, I know,

(41:00):
he still replied, Okay, but yeah, we did. It gave her,
It made her more. It gave her that person like,
the personal, the personable feel to her, because at one
point it was just like, I'm just a ghostwriter. This
is what I do. I just listened to the story.

(41:20):
But it also told us too that she will dig deep.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Mm hmmm, yeah, like she did a lot of things
like you know, her father and one of his episodes
mentions where the knife was hidden. So she's like, I'm
gonna go try to find that damn life. So she
goes and you know, breaks into the old house, not
even knowing if who owns the house. So she needed
some present day storyline to keep things interesting because her

(41:47):
character would have been quite dull without it. So the
author managed to give some balance to that, which was good, right,
while also still working toward the reveal.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Right, so right, yeah, because as for the reader, we
kind of saw her only as the only living child
of Vincent Taylor, and it was still in a childlike manner,
as you you know, like now that you bring that up,
we see her as an adult, but in our minds,

(42:18):
I think we did still kind of see her as
a child, and she was trying to let go of
that image. But in her mind she didn't want people
to know who she was, even though you know, like
she married the one guy to kind of take his
name basically French, you know, citizenship, But yeah, she was

(42:38):
trying to let go of that persona or that that namesake.
So yeah, that providing those little bits of pieces, did
you know, add an extra layer for us.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, she totally. What's crazy is I think had you
know Vincent told daughter as an adult, you know this,
they work together, then they would have worked together before.
I think she would have understood here's our family story.
I feel like she would have understood. But why would

(43:15):
you want your daughter to think you're a murder?

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Like?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Okay, I understand him not giving you know, a care
about the world at large, right whatever it helps me
sell books, I don't care. I'm amassing unfortunate as a writer.
But your daughter pulls away, you send her away, and
then she keeps pulling away and you're okay with it.
That part kind of seemed odd to me.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
But he was an alcoholic and a drug addict too.
He was for a while, and I think that's that
was the one piece, which was a copying mechanism.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, yeah, it was, but that's a lot time. He's
older now, like she was, not, Like, how was she?

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Do we know?

Speaker 1 (44:03):
I want to If I had to guess, I would
say she was in her early thirties at the time
that she did his book.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Probably because there was seventy five and I'm believing something
may have revealed because it's a pie because there was
a podcast. So I'm thinking it's gotta be early twenty.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
I know what year I was born, Okay, and it's
not seventy five, I'll tell you all that. But we
know that her her mother had that procedure in seventy five,
so they eventually got married and got pregnant again. So
let's say she was born in seventy eight. The present
day is twenty four and twenty five, Like twenty four

(44:44):
and twenty five. I'm in my forties, okay, So even
if she was born in like late seventies, early eighties,
she'd still be over forty years old.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Well, I know her dad. When the reporter found her dad,
he was like twenty three in working at that grocery store,
and he was do you you don't remember that part?
He was working at the grocery store part time while

(45:18):
he got his writing career off the ground. And that's
when the mother was interviewed and said, I would never
let my daughter live.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
So so and she and I think Olivia had to
be about four or five then, So yeah, you're right,
she's got to be at least thirty or forty something.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, she's either mid to late thirties or at the oldest,
like forty or forty one or something.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah, and that's what I was thinking too. Yeah, but yeah,
that's that's about how old I was thinking. But you know,
when you got two stubborn people and years of alcohol drugs,
and then he got sick.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
And he only wanted to reveal that to get the
story told. At the end of his life. M h okay,
I'm losing my mind. Let's hurry up and get this done. Right, Well,
I can still tell it. Yeah, And he really had
a twofold for that, because he did need her help

(46:21):
getting the story told in a way that protected Lydia still.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, yeah, So Olivia had a good, a big task
to do. You had to tell the story.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Yeah, he knew, and he said, I knew she could
do it. He's like, I knew you could do it.
That's why we played the Scavenger you know those games,
you know, And like he knew even though he told
her not to interview people and that he knew she
was going to do it. He knew she was stubborn
in strong will, he knew she was going to do it.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, but she got away around it, right, She said,
let me look at the contract again, because remember you said, I.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Knew you find her her reels. I knew you would
find them.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah, so she went. When she went around asking questions,
she said, Hey, I'm Vincent's daughter, Remember I'm you know.
She didn't mention her new last name at all. She
didn't mention the book at all. She was just there
as family, trying to figure out what the heck happened.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yeah, because that's what Tom told her, Like, and then
she said, how can I live up to my agreement
without compromising it? I can't remember her exact terms, and
she and that's when she was like, I figured it out. Yeah,
mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
So yeah, Tom's like, don't talk to me.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Oh, I know, I wait for you to say something.
He was like, week ass, Tom, Yeah, get out of here.
You're black.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
I'm sorry, but I mean I hope she got her happily.
Ever after with him, it seemed like it was good
at the end with them. You know, she took invited
him to the family home before it was no longer
hers right, the how she grew up in. Yeah, I think, yeah,

(48:08):
it was well done from beginning to end. I don't
I don't know how I could have improved it.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I know, like I said, the pacing, but I think,
like after we discussed it, I believe the pacing had
to be done in that manner just because of the
reveals and the research and you know, the illness and yeah,
h because yeah, because I mean there were moments where

(48:34):
he couldn't talk to her, he'd lose it. He thought
she was Lydia.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, she looks like her mom, acts like her aunts. Right,
he's getting knocked kind of in his feelings about.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
It, right, and then you name him Olivia and Lydia.
So yeah, I was like, okay, I could I get it.
I get it, Julie, I see what you did there.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
That's crazy that Vincent Lydia kept the murder weapon for
so long. They kept it and then Lydia finally just
got rid of it. And you know, Olivia is very smart.
She's like, yeah, I'm not going to ask that question.
Don't ask questions you don't want the answer to. She's like,
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Nope, nope, nope, nope, no, no, it.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Does not matter at this point. Anyway, this man's going
to jail for the crimes that he has.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Committed, committed yep, that's all we care about.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah, he won't get you know, and there is no
justice I guess for her aunt and uncle in that way.
But it doesn't even matter at this point. She's like,
it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
No, the truth has been revealed. That's all that you
know at this point. Yep. M h I'll tell you.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
It was very sneaky how they pointed the finger at
somebody in a book and a memoir.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
Mm hmm yeah, mm hm hmm. It's like that nice,
nice done, Like how did that story come up? How
did you with this story?

Speaker 1 (50:01):
And honestly I liked it even more after we talked
about it, I know, I know she did. Yeah, yeah,
and the narrators were great, Like at first, I didn't
even realize there were three. I knew they were either,
but I didn't realize there were three.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
I didn't either until you you know, mentioned it at
the beginning, because I was like, really, yeah, it's one
male and two women, right.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Right, yep? Because I actually liked getting didn't we get
a chapter from Vince as a Child? Yeah? We got two.
We got two from Vincent as a Child in seventy five,
which we needed. Also, I kind of wish we had
one from Danny, but we didn't get one. Yeah, it'd

(50:50):
been nice to know what was going on in his
head a little bit from me from his point of
view anyway. But yeah, yeah, those boys, they they were
They did not like each other. No, they did not
get along.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, I was trying to like even think why, But
I mean, it's the sibling rivalry.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
They're Irish twes that were really close in age, and
sometimes that's enough to make conflict.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
And one was handsome and one was it was geeky.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Or everyone lost Danny till the girls want Danny yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
And then you have Danny who's saying she only wanted
you because I rejected her. That right there will cause
sibling rivalry alone, especially with two young boys hormones crazy.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
So yeah, you know, And I also really liked at
the end how Vincent after kind of discovering more truths
with the with the reels and things, he like, admitted like,
it's gonna take a minute for me to reset how
I think about my brother. You know, yes, my brother
attacked my girlfriend friend, but also he was abused, and

(52:05):
it's like two wrongs don't make a right. But you
gotta wonder, does him being molested by that man inform
how he felt it was okay to attack Lydia? Right, Yeah,
you know, it's like he's got to think of it
kind of differently now, or like, was.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
He trying to assert that I am a man I
like women? You know, the opposite, like here I have
this I've been raped or I've been molested or whatever,
and now I have to, you know, make sure everybody
knows I'm manly. So so yeah, you do in that

(52:45):
forgiveness m Yeah, and being able to forgive your brother.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Well, I think it's okay that he not want to
forgive him for that part of it, but to also
embrace that he was having a heart time because of
other things. So it's a really interesting duology of things,
you know, like how do you wrap your head around that,
maybe not hate him as much as you did before.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
I think Julie did a great job being able to
tell you know, the as you said, the duology of
the sadness of the two brothers being able well not
I won't say the two brothers being able to forget,
but Vincent dealing with learning what happened to his brother

(53:32):
even in death, because At first, he just felt like
his brother was a cruel, mean brother who raped his
sister and impregnated her. But realizing that he was also
a victim, it brought that softness to the story and
the trauma that everyone felt in this story. So I

(53:54):
applauded for that.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah. Same, I just wish say, heck you know again,
but it's the seventies. No one gets therapy in the seventies.
But I kind of wish that Lydia would have would
have been able to like push past that somehow, like
you just leave your daughter, like dude, Yeah, I wish
there was a little more to that, you know. Yes,
that was tough for her as well. She did something horrific,

(54:20):
you know, thinking that her boyfriend and his sister were
murdered by him.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
So yeah, and they were young. I mean they were
They're very young. They had a baby young, so they
probably thought their love and being together is going to
solve everything, and she just could not deal.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, she couldn't. He couldn't. They both had a lot
of trauma. They both need to be in therapy. But
I mean, you can't go to therapy and say, hey,
I actually I killed someone.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Right to tell.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah, she'd be calling the cops on you, So I
don't know. I guess that's your priests thet like, oh
what okay, nine one one, Yeah, broke the law. Okay,

(55:20):
all right, I guess we should rate it. Yes, Like, man, okay,
I know what my reading is, what you got. I'm
going to give it a four. I had a really
good time talking about that book, and the more and

(55:41):
more I think about it, I was probably like, you know,
if we did have which we don't, it probably would
have been a three point five. But I'm going to
give it the boost because the discussion was really good
and thinking about the skill she needed to kind of weave.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
It how she did. I agree for that. And that
was my reading because at first I was like that okay,
because I mean it did it lulled at a bit,
But when she that ending and how she did that
with Poppy's story and those twists and turns, and yeah,

(56:20):
I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed the story. So I
give it a four to two. Yay, awesome.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Is this our first four of the year? Is it
my first four of the year for the buddy read?

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Maybe it might be.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
GI.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
I know, I was tough this year on a few.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
So yeah, halfway through the year and here we are. Yeah,
well this is definitely our first join.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Four four definitely nothing else, but yeah, this was I enjoyed.
But we liked her other book too, so but yeah,
she did a superb job with this one.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Yeah. This book was very, very different from her last book.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
I think I like that it was so different because
now I can see that she's got some other chops
going on, and I know, yeah, I definitely will read
more from her, I think, And.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
I did, like like you were saying too, I do
like this was different because when they write this something
so similar, you just like, oh, I know it to expect, well,
I know what to expect, you know, because you're just
kind of like, oh, this is her mom, not at all.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
I still want a second part to that her other
book though, because the Lies I tell I still feel
like she can write a second part to that because
Boyfriend the Torch was passed.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Yeah, yeah, she left us hanging.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yeah, and I still want to read the Last Flag
from her. That was her most popular book in twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
That one has over two hundred and fifty thousand ratings,
and Lies I yeah, the Lies I tell only has
ninety thousand ratings, so Last Flight looks like she yeah,
she looks like she got on the on the radar
with that one. So I definitely want to read that
one on my own, or maybe we can do a
one off for our Patreon people.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Yeah, the Last Flight Okay, yeah, look that.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Look at those ratings, so over two hundred and fifty
thousand ratings with a four point one. Wow, that is
very very good on that. So I'm definitely gonna read
that and whatever else she puts out, we'll see. Yeah,
I like her, I do, yes, Yeah, So okay, so
next up for August, I am pleased to announce we

(58:53):
are reading King of Ashes by S. A. Caspy. Yay
and Patreon recommended this one and it was also on
our list as well, so another reason to join. You
guys can give us your two cents and we might.

Speaker 4 (59:11):
Do it right.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Yeah I did one last year too, So yeah, it
is exciting to read the book that Patreon people are
subscribers picked.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
So yeah, I'm excited. This should be good, yes, because
I think they picked another one.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Was it the Mars book? Is that the one they
picked first last year or this year.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
No, I can't remember, remember I digress. I don't remember,
so don't let me misspeak because I don't know.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
And Essay Cosby. He's been making the rounds on the internet,
the Internet. I've been seeing him on like news channels
and stuff. He's definitely getting his right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I had a girlfriend who told me, she's like, I
stopped work so I can find this book because she's like,
I just got so distracted. I needed to know how
this book was going to end. And he did not disappoint.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Okay, so we are back to this is crime fiction.
He is writing crime fiction in the South, Yes, southern
new Yeah, so this should be really good. I think
I expect nothings. I mean, I think we've had a
really good time with the books we've read from him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
So yeah, if nothing right, good discussion.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
He's gotten better over the years.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
He's got better good discussions. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah, So if you're curious about that book, get your
purchase on or get it from your library so you
can listen to us next time and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Better get it early.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
We're talking about it's a good hold.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
So yeah, yeah, I just bought it I'm like, forget
the whole Yeah, my friend got me a signed copy.
So I was like, yay, thank your friend. Oh nice,
I saw my political politics and pros and you get
me a sign heart cover. I'm like, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, that's cool, awesome. Okay, So I think that's it
for today. Okay, Okay, it's been a really fun conversation.
We hope you enjoyed it. We appreciate you for listening
to us for the entire hour, and we'll catch you
in the next one. Take care of yourselves. Bye, guys.

(01:01:33):
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(01:01:54):
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(01:02:15):
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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Unraveling 'The Ghostwriter': A Deep Dive | #BuddyReads Book Chat