All Episodes

January 20, 2025 • 85 mins

What are the Canucks other than infuriatingly inconsistent?
The Miller noise has reached a deafening level, what happens next?
Tyler Myers and Connor McDavid both get Match Penalties and hearings with the league for Cross Checking.
Has this season had more teams in turmoil than other seasons in recent memory?


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shifts-and-pucks-podcast--3065338/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
And I quote, I'll be there in a minute, give
me a second.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Time is relative, folks, Time is relative.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
So hey, cheers to everybody in the chat.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Is their division rival.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
I don't care how many gets, how many wins they get.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Screw them.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
That wasn't the take I was expecting to hear.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I want to gush over watching live Christanna.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
I think that we completely underestimate the skill it takes
to play defense.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
One highlight or several highlights does not a call theer trophy.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Mate, I'm stepping in here. I'm going to be the
to the old man here. They need to learn patience.
They need to understand the detention everything in the in
the drama.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Oh dere, look at this. How is mcam of not
getting a penalty?

Speaker 3 (01:10):
You got? You guys need to calm down with this. Okay,
you guys need to calm down with.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
There's nothing even remotely close to calm in kentuck Land, Tyler.
Nothing it is. It is louder, louder. God, it's louder
than a train going down Cologna or camels or whatever.
It's loud. That's my point. You can follow us on

(01:37):
Twitter at ships and Pugs, Facebook dot com ships and Pugs,
YouTube dot Comships and Pucks subscribe wherever you get your audio.
That will be re jiggery. I had a little bit
of a technical issue with that, but that will be
fixed today so we'll have all of that back for you.
But holy cow, one a week in Vancouver and the

(02:04):
first of all, Hello Sean.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Hi have How are you personally? I'm fine. I'm having
a I'm pretty gether right now. But like as a sport,
like my sports fandom and everything, I'm just wondering if
it's just the the ups and downs this week have
been kind of all over the place. We wonders if

(02:32):
I'm allowed to be sports happy?

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Chris, how are you?

Speaker 2 (02:41):
I mean, in the grand scheme of things, I'm good.
The Connects have definitely lyan the roller coaster in the
past several weeks, so I'm enjoying the prospect of talking
about that.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Well, it has certainly been a very dramatic week with
was four games this week, a win on well since Saturday,
a win on a hockey night in Canada where Elias
Peterson was in a selky mode and the Knucks got
a shutout. It was three nothing. The Eastern media was

(03:17):
like holy cowvi Quinn hughes. Guy's pretty good. Hey wow,
maybe he should be in the Heart Nora's Trophy and
conductive fan if they're like, no fucking kidding, watch some hockey.
And then Monday comes and Kyle Connor scores not once,
not twice, but three times in the first period. And

(03:39):
first of all, all credit to Kyle Connor. He's a
hell of a hockey player, like just seriously legitimately underrated,
Like come on with Kyle Connor, he's damn good. But anyway,
but the Canucks did not. That was a bad night
in a big loss. Then in they come home, they

(04:00):
came Well, that's a home game, it's la, it's a
division rival. You've got the Tanner Jeno knocking out brock
Beser sort of drama that comes with this. Are the
Canucks going to do anything about that? Well, it was
three nothing within the first ten minutes and the Cuts
kind of basically took their ball and went home. In

(04:21):
a lot of ways, it was one of the poorest
effort in an effort where there in a season where
there was a bunch of poor efforts, this was a
poor effort and it led to now, let's just carry
the drama over. JT. Miller was went to the side
of the bench and he did have words with the
wreck tocket at some point, and it looked to and

(04:45):
it was appearing at some point that it looked like
there was a possibility that JT. Miller would be held
out of the lineup against the Eulers, and because there
was a potential trade on the table, apparently.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
As gar Elliott Friedman.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yes, now, and then J. T. Miller is in the lineup,
and quite frankly, he plays J. T. Miller like the
Canucks get a three to nothing lead in the first
they hang on for uh dear life al Connor Garland
hanging up. Connor Garland hung but maybe the correct way
to say it, Corlor Garland hung on to Connor McDavid

(05:24):
for fear life. And they went three to two. But
then let's we need to continue the drama. That's what
happens in Vancouver. We need to continue the drama. After that,
with two seconds left, Connor McDavid gets up from the
Garland hold interference whatever you want to call it, probably
penalty we will I will grant you. This is a

(05:47):
penalty of some kind.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Honestly, I feel like it should have been like a
just coincidental lay.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, but do Conor McDavid decided that it's decided
to take a cross Okay, just a cross check to
Connor Garland's head. And then and then all hell breaks
loose again. And then Tyler Myers has a cross check
to Evan Bouchard's head. Both got match penalties, both are

(06:18):
being sent to are going to have a hearing as
for a little bit earlier this morning with the NHL,
and then so another level of drama ensues carrying on
with the Canucks. So it's just drama. Like it's just
drama filled all around Vancouver. But I guess let's go backwards.

(06:42):
Let's discuss this McDavid situation, because there's you know, there's
the Canucks fan base is no you know, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
I'm gonna keep everybody else out of this. I'm gonna
go from my perspective. Okay, let's let's hear from me first,
and I know I hear about from you because I
got a I got some things to say about this.
Connor McDavid is the dirtiest player in the National Hockey League.
It is not the first time Connor McDavid has swung
a stick at someone. Look back at the Stanley Cup Finals.

(07:17):
I know we didn't want to talk about it because
a Candian we need get downy Cup Final. He swings
his stick around like it's he's Paul Bunyan. He swings
his elbows around like he's doing the chicken dance bit
that it's not the first time he swung his elbow out.

(07:39):
Marcus Johansson did not hell a hit at Connor McDavid's elbow.
Connor McDavid's elbow hit Marcus Johansson. It's garbage. It is
not the first time. And if he's going to keep
doing this, he's going to have to throw down his
gloves and he's gonna have to fight. Because I'll tell
you what. If I was on the ice and he
pulled this ship, I would punch him in the face.

(08:00):
And I wouldn't punch him in the face once. I
wouldn't punch him in the face twice. I would punch
him in the face several times. It's bullshit. I don't
care that he's the best player in the game. It's
absolute fucking bullshit, and I'm tired of it, and I'm
tired of people defending Connor McDavid for these actions. I
don't give a fuck that he's the best player of

(08:20):
the game. It's bullshit. It is bullshit that you cross
check a player in the head. Stop this shit and
stop justifying it because he was taken down. Get players
get taken down all the time. They don't cross check
a player in the head. Fucking dude, this this pisses
me off.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Who it's the same people that are like, well, we
need to I mean, we can't have fighting in the
game and we need to partic through stairs.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
But we're allowed to have Connor McDavid do this shit.
Fuck off with this fuck right off. Either you want
a standard of hockey that is clean or you don't.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Anyway, I knew you had some feelings, keV, but damn
I wasn't prepared for that.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Maybe maybe I didn't need this podcast he and Kevin
to to bring some some energy and some just cation
into this. But yeah that I wouldn't call him the
dirtiest player in the in the game right now. I mean,
that is triple h but that's that's that's actually a

(09:31):
different game.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
But that's a different sport entirely that's.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
He's not the dirty player in the game, but he's
definitely sneaky dirty. He's definitely sneaky dirty. And part of
that is because he's been taking so much ship and
abuse over the years because he is the best, like
arguably the best player in the game.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Like, that's not our problem, but that but that's that's
not our problem.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, And to be honest, that what makes the NHL
great when it's that its best is there's no preferential
treatment for the stars. Let's go let's let's let's go
back to twenty two thousand and nine through twenty and
thirteen when the Canucks were a good team. They have
the Cedienes who took so much fucking abuse and just

(10:23):
let it roll off their shoulder and we're called and
we're called sisters for it.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, let's go back to that time.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
When they they didn't they didn't go back and they
were they didn't, they didn't retaliate. But I think you
can there is there is the lizard side of my
brain that like understands why McDavid did it, but he
still should be punished for it.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Absolutely, And yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
Both both McDavid and Myers deserve to be punished. I'm guessed.
I'm going to guess two games because the Canucks and
Oilers play on Thursday. Both teams have one game in between,
and then they will not then and then both both
players will miss the rematch. That means that would retards
if they're both won, just because the NHL is the NHL,

(11:08):
and I feel like they are trying to They're not
trying to quote quote unquote. This isn't my thoughts on this,
but this is just just how I feel what's happening here,
because it feels like they're trying to allow more violence
into the game again by not by not overly punishing
some of these plays that being said, needed like a

(11:31):
lot of the stuff that has been underpunished by that
the public as fell has been under punished have been
miss timed hockey plays. For the most part, these are
not hockey plays. This was a retaliatory, retaliatory cross check
right to the face from McDavid, and this was away
from even the way with Myers. It's away from the scrum,

(11:52):
and it was a high cross check that rode up
into Bouchard's face. Both deserve to be punished, but if
you if there's anyone out there, and I you know what,
fuck it? How take hockey? John, You and I got
into it on on x Slash Twitter this this morning
about it, and you're you say that myus deserves three

(12:12):
games and McDavid deserves two if they get if they
get different penalties for this, that's absolute horseshit because they're
almost the exact same the exact same action. Like you
can quibble about, well, yeah it was. You can call
it like an isolated incident with Myers and and Bouchard. Again,

(12:35):
it was a if you look at if you look
at the replay, the cross check actually initially hits Bouchard
up in the upper chest and rides up. It's still
a cross check, still deserves a penalty, still deserves punishment.
McDavid's was a reactionary even if it's a split second
pre like he made the decision he wanted to do

(12:56):
that because of what Garland did beforehand. Directly to the face.
There was no no like initial contact to the to
the torso or anything. It was directly to the face.
And also it was a lot I think I I
think it was a lot harder of a of a
of a hit to the to the face, than the

(13:17):
than what what Myers did to Bouchard. H That being said,
any if if they if those those two players get
different punishments, it's just gonna open up a can of worms.
And the NHL does not want They're either gonna get
They're either gonna get both get fined. They're either gonna
both get one game, or they're both gonna get two games.
That's my prediction. I don't know what at what point

(13:39):
they go they go at it. I think they just
to calm things down. I wouldn't be surprised if it
is two games, just because the conducts and others are
playing on Thursday. But I just I know I've seen Tyler,
who unfortunately couldn't join us today, has said that I
think he thinks I'm going overboard. I think a friend

(14:02):
of the show, uh Jeremiah the Beard sports, I think
I thinks I'm going a little bit higher than what
what he expects as well, which is with the where
the NHL is going at this, I don't I don't
know how I can understand why people don't are expecting less.
But I think because it's they weren't hockey plays, I

(14:23):
think they're going there they will go a little heart harsher,
especially with the idea of you do not want, you
do not want to escalate even more on Thursday, even
though from a story, from a story perspective and a
narrative perspective and to get eyes on eyeballs on the
product perspective, it kind of would help. But I think

(14:47):
that they're gonna error on the side of caution there.
But yeah, they said, I I don't I do not
understand if you anyone anyone saying that the the these
plays should be should be punished differently. They a pretty
much pretty damn close to being the exact same. There
are different differences, slight differences to both because they are

(15:07):
different incidents, but they're so fucking close to being the
same that if you if you punish, if you punish
Myers more than you punish with David, you're gonna You're
all that's gonna come out of that is just screaming
a preferential treatment for the stars, which again is not
what makes the NHL good. You do not want, you

(15:28):
do not want to certain stars getting calls because they
are who they are, like the NBA, like the NFL.
That's that doesn't help. That doesn't help things. All it
does is make people pissed off and turn and honestly
turn a lot of like the casuals away. What you
want is what what comes across as as unbiased as possible.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
So it's different from the other professional sports is the
fact that it's more team based as opposed to star based.
So you want to you want to stick with that
general like mantra or mindset.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah, so it's I just I don't know I anyone
who anyone who tells me that the one one or
the other deserves more. I think you're wrong, And I
think you need to reassess how you look at things
and reassess how you and especially these these two incidents,

(16:27):
they're they're almost they're similar enough that that taking a
that that punishing one more than the other is just
just asking asking for controversy that is not required here,
you know.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, Like, do we want this to turn into the
what is very close to being the eleven year anniversary
to the day repeat of what happened with between Vancouver
and Calgary? Like do we want align for AWL next? Oilers?
Can is game? Because if you uh decided to go
like lopsided as far as these punishments, that's likely is

(17:05):
whats gonna happen?

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Can I can I just say something? I know that
I'm not necessary. I don't want to be the neanderthal
that encourages that. I can I just toss something in here,
a little bit of spice, since I already let out
let out around.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
This is a safe space, keV let her rip?

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Would that actually hurt that? Would that actually hurt the connection?
If they did have a line brawl? I almost would argue,
I almost would propose it that a line brawl might
actually help this team.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
I don't see talking disagreeing with you, keV.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
I think and that well, yeah, because it's when you
when you've looked at how inconsistent they've been, consistently inconsistent
they've been. It's just and a lot of it is
because they just it feels like they've lost lost that bite,
lost that energy and that us against the world attitude

(18:07):
that they had last year. And I think they eat that.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
They had something to prove, whereas this year, I don't know,
like they just don't have that same mojo.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, and for whatever reason, like I said, you got
the whole Miller versus PD thing, and this that and
the other thing and everything like something, yeah, something is
not right with this team, and it's and it's evident
with the how they how they're how they're losing games
more than anything else. It feels like as soon as

(18:40):
there's as soon as something goes there goes against them.
Especially early on in the game, they fold they fulld
tents and you know, they pulled up their tents and
shut down camp like it's just it. And I was
really hoping that like when yeah, from are aspect, how

(19:01):
they can how they cannot handle this when talk it
came out and I didn't really confirm anything, but kind
of did, and Hughes did the same thing, and then
p D and Hugh Pdean and Miller came out and
basically denied it and got pissed off with the media
over it. I was really hoping that the media would
become this just like this like the enemy of the

(19:22):
end of my enemy is my enemy like that type
of thing. Like it's just like they have a common
common common enemy and then they can just like build
off from that. And unfortunately it hasn't really gotten that way.
But if if jac Miller still looking up by Thursday
and that happens. Maybe that is the sort of like

(19:45):
the spark that like that can, that can the Cannucks
can build off because he just you look, you look
at how they played against Toronto last Saturday, and you
look how they played that's specific in the first period
last night against the Oilers. That's a team that can
go deep in the playoffs if they play that way consistently.

(20:08):
They just haven't been able to.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, that's and I mean, I just just hear me
out with the it sounds this is gonna sound ridiculous,
but just hear me out on what you throw out
the reunite the lotto line with Miller Petterson in Besser.
You maybe throw out Hughes and the Myers is in

(20:34):
they or whatever your your other right shot guy and
you drop it sounds stupid in a lot of ways,
but you almost have to drop the gloves and throw down.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I'm sorry, but PD's not fighting.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
But you don't like like it almost like it just
feels like I like, I'm kind of with like it
just needs something to galvanize and unite this team. And
I know it's a bit again, it's a bit, I
get it, but it's less hockey. Yeah, you know, as

(21:17):
much as we want.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
To make hockey like safer and less prone to injuries
and stuff, there's a lot of caveman and old school
in hockey and that's what makes it great.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah. You can try and raise it from the game
as much as you want, but there's still some level
of that in people, like in their bones, just based
on instinct like it. It's a part of hockey, whether
you like it or not.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
On that point, I want you to give Ray Ferraro,
Kevin b X and Elliott Friedman a lot of credit
for how they handled last night.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Just for our.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Ferraro, just the fact he said, you know what, I
didn't see Myers hit Bouchard. And you know this was
from this broadcast was generally a Canucks broadcast. It was
shorthouse in Ferrara, so they were kind of more on
the side of the connects and that's you know, that's okay.
You know when the Oilers when they played in Edmonton,
it's gonna be Michael's of debrask and that's going to

(22:11):
be more of an edmonded slant. And I think that
that's what they want to do. But I'll give Feraro credit.
But Kevin Bixa said something last night to those that
want fighting out of the game, and he made a point,
if you want fighting out of the game, you are
going to have more.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Of these sticks stick incidents.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
And I know that there's a lot of people who
are like that don't see it, but I think last
night there was a and Kevin Biegen was like, look,
both are cross checks to the head. There He's like, you
shown both across checks to the head. Both should be punished,
and both should be punished equally. And so Elliott Friedman
said the same thing. They're cross checks to the head.
They have to be punished. And I think, look at

(22:51):
I am one that believes, sorry that we need to
eliminate the stick to the head is something that we
should try to be eliminating from the game. We know
the games in your concussions anything to the head, Yeah,
although encourage otherwise.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
So, I mean, there's no there's no right answer to this,
especially when you're playing at such a fluid, emotional, physical game.
It's just gonna happen. And well, again, what makes hockey
so great, it's the combination of skill, speed and violence. Yep,

(23:29):
we need to embrace all three in my opinion, So
if you don't, if you don't like that, there's other
sports out there for you. I don't want to be
I'm not trying to gatekeeper anything like that, but what
makes hockey great is the combination of speed, skill and violence.
And if you don't like the violence, there's other games
that have speed and skill and they're great too.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Have to I mean, it's not necessarily When I talk
about toughness, it doesn't have to necessarily always be a
punch in the face. Like there's other ways to be
of like blocking a shot, a physical play along the
boards where you're taking a player out in a using
your body.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Or sadean lake where you literally just are eating hits
and slashes and whatnot and being kind of taking the
high road sort of aspect.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, yeah, And I do wonder if that's why we're
seeing that this, if we can use that as a
transition over to what the hell are the Canucks? I
do wonder if that's something they're they're in between what
they want to do with how they want to handle this,
if they want to be a more emotional, rough and
tumble team, like I think how JT. Miller would want

(24:39):
or if they want to be a little bit more
like just like the Sadines. I think that might be
one of the reasons why this team has struggled to
find an identity this season.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
And funny enough, it kind of does come down to
the personality of PD versus.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Miller, because the other PD is not p D doesn't
shy away from physical contact. He just isn't. He's just
he's a he's a lanky and he's a lanky and
dude who doesn't who can who doesn't have as big
of a hockey ass as many players that other players,

(25:15):
So he gets Yeah, but he there was a play
last million against that he took him out in the
in the corner there.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I think I could have been in a cross checking penalty. Like, yeah,
Patterson hit him a couple of times, so he you
he can't be physical, Yeah, he's just throw a punch
in the face.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah. No. And honestly, like when when p he's on
his game, he does have that tenacity to him. He
does have that. It's the four check. And she showed
him in a couple of ships, especially in the third period,
like even with with the near the end of the game,
but the goalie was pulled like he he four checked
and almost created a that goal because of it. Like

(25:57):
it's yeah, And I do think that that's part of
the reason why I think that they just don't know,
like they're trying to be, they don't know what this
this group is. I think that's the problem, and I
think that's a big reason why this team is being
so in like consistently inconsistent, as well as other potential

(26:19):
Like there's definitely some sort of locker room issue there.
I don't know how big it is. I do think
that there the noise surrounding it is probably louder than
it actually what has or was, and then maybe it
played into it and it grew into that noise. But
I don't know, Like I really don't know, but I
do think that the noise did not how how the

(26:42):
noise persisted, it didn't help. I think I think that
whatever issue was in the locker room maybe grew into that.
In my opinion, I.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Think, like one thing I've noticed when JG. Miller is
when he's on his game, I've watched. It's a little
subtle thing, but he plays with his shoulders a lot
more up and he is he's standing a lot more straight.
When he's off his game, he's he he does slouch
on the ice. I'm not saying that he's a it's
a body language thing, but it just feels like he

(27:15):
was Like it's kind of obvious to me when J. G.
Miller is on and off his game. Well, I will
before we get into JT. Miller the one thing that
I do. Two things that I do want to bring
up before we get into the Miller p bit here.
The winger play from last night to the game against
the Kings was night in day like. There was a

(27:38):
play against the Kings that Connor Garland went down the
ice on the left side a defenseman that rubbed him
out of the play and I never saw Connor Garland again.
There was another play against the Kings that Neils Hoaglander
was pushing somebody can't remember who it was. The King
player pushed back Homelander ran away and I never saw
from him again. I don't think Rock Besser has Last

(28:01):
night was probably one of his better performances, but I
don't think he's been good for most of the twenty
twenty five portion of the season. And I think Jacob
Ruskiss was quiet for the most part up to last night.
So last night was a better game in terms of
the winger play. And the other thing is this, as
much as people hate Meyers Sussi my Meyers Forberd, I

(28:24):
felt was just worse. Like they had less chemistry. It
was like like less like that did work worse than
Meyer Susie. Like, I think both Myers and four Board
looked a lot better apart from each other. That was
a bad date those two together, Like, it just didn't work.

(28:47):
I don't like, I feel like they're both too slow
for each other, and I feel like Myers and Susie
compliment each other a little bit better. But so I
just wanted to get those things out of the way.
I think most of the folks and this part is
about Miller and Peterson and and that's totally fair, But
those two areas were two areas that I noticed were

(29:07):
a big difference from the two games in Winnipeg to
the gaming age advagin anyway.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Again, Yeah, it's just it's a lot of the inconsistent inconsistencies.
When they're on the winger play is not like they're
they're making the right decisions, they're they're they're tenacious, but
when they're not, they're yeah, they're they're gambling at the
wrong time. And then they're yeah, they're invisible. So I
think that a lot of that is it comes down

(29:36):
to the confidence or the swagger or whatever they're but
and then with the with the with the defense. Yeah,
the chemistry, the chemistry outside of Hughes and Ronic hasn't
been there this season. Susie and Myers has been are

(29:58):
okay that but there If you're gonn have those two
on your in your top six, they need to be
a bottom pair. You need to have a top, a
middle pair that can take a little bit more of
the ice time if you can find that's that's the
the the the issue on the blue line. In my opinion,
it's just like outside of hugheson Ronic, there's just it

(30:19):
just hasn't worked the way it did last year. Like
I think they missed, they missed the steadiness of Ian Cole.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
I think they're about to bring that up. I feel
like they're really it took us a little while to
realize it. But yeah, the structure that Ian Cole broad
really was like an underrated thing that kept that d
relatively solid.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
They missed his steadiness and his just his ability to
make the smart play when whether it was defensively or
with the puck, because they I think the caduckts what
like what we did when did we talked about last
year of what made them so successfully? It was predictability,
like their teammates knew what was going on. And I
don't think that's the that's that's happened this year. So

(31:03):
I think a big part of that is the blue
lit the breakouts have not been predictable and effective.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, And I also they do miss the door off skating,
Like is the door off is a good skating a
good skater? Now, I think the door off is another
chaos giraffe. Like you can get the good from Nikita Zadoroff,
you can also get the bad from Niketa Zadorof and
you can get some wonderful quips. And you know he
would be involved in a line probably against the Eilers.

(31:32):
You you know he would take center ice for that right,
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
He would have been the replacement for BX in that scenario.
But he like.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Again, you can't. I I don't think the Canucks could
have paid that money for him, and but they do
miss zador Offs, Like Forward is not the skater that
zador Off is. That's like Forbard is a steady I
would suggest six seven hype of defenseman, but he's just
not that good of a skater. Now, I think the

(32:05):
nice thing going forward with the conducts is you've got
some at least two good skaters on the blue line
coming and dp D and Will Wander is a really
good skater as well. So I think going forward you've
got that, you're getting that covered. But right now that
is the right but I mean you've the future of

(32:29):
the blue line is is good skating. The current of
the blue line other than Quinn Hughes and like is
much to just like come on with Quinn Hughes last night,
like just two goals. He should be in He's in
my heart, He's he is on my heart ballad my

(32:50):
heart consideration. He's a he's my Norris winner. Although I
do think Zach Wrensky deserves a little bit more love
for that, like but he's he's just he was outstanding
again lost like he's not the problem. I mean, I
feel like he needs a hunk.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Quick quick, great though, if Mars out, why are all
the East guys still in love with mccarr noticeably a
lot more than Hughes, because Hughes has outplayed mccar over
the past two seasons.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Go ahead showing it's mccars. Mccar is is bigger, more physical,
and there's the the idea that he's bet he he's
better defensively. And then he also even though quinns is
already in double disches and goals already again this year,

(33:52):
they he's for the longest time this year he's been
has had more goals. And I think that between those
two and is why you see more more votes go
McCarran than Hughes.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
So I don't think that people. Again, this is in
general hockey analysis, and I will give Shana Goldman a
lot of credit for pointing this out because she's one
of them that does it. Is the analytics don't quantify
defense enough. It's hard to I will grant that, but

(34:30):
there's a lot of it. Like the car is probably
more noticeable on the ice in Quinn Hughes is if
you're watching, if you're just watching from a camera angle,
the car's it's he's just because at more of a presence.
But you watch Quinn Hughes. It's almost Connor McDavid likes
in the terms of the subtleties is what he does.
It's nothing is necessarily going to blow you away, but

(34:53):
he is like he is very skilled in his own end, Like, yeah,
it's I want to be careful when I say this,
but I almost feel like it's, uh, maybe I won't
use that name. I'm going to use a Jacob Slaven
as an example right where it's you're not going to
notice what Jacob Slavin does. But even like in terms

(35:14):
of then you watch the time on ice and shots
four and against, and you look at natural statrick and
you see that Quinn Heutman can uses on the ice,
how more dominant the team is. It's the same with
Jacob's slave, Like you don't notice it on the ice,
you notice it more later. Right where mccarr you notice
what he does on or off the ice. And there's
a lot of people that feel that the reason that

(35:36):
the Carr isn't even remotely effective defensively is because of
devon tags.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Also, I'm really glad that people are starting to come
around to what happened screaming for the past five years,
that the analytics that we have access to is public.
Do not measure the defense very well?

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Well, yes, you have said that too, but SHANEA. Goldman
is is as I should give you credit as well.
Shana Goldman and Sean have pointed this out, but I've
kind of tried to point that out too. But I
feel like SHANEA. Goldman is the more famous of US
three in terms of like the large analytics community. That's
true anyway, There's also.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Very, very talented with her upscaling of sports stuff and
turning it into really cool fashion items.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, I am a I do. I am a regular
listener of their of their podcast of Too Many Men.
I I actually really enjoyed that. So anyway, but let's okay.
So I got to tell you I'm conflicted of what
to do with J. T. Miller overall because I I

(36:50):
before the Eiler game, I was like, I think I'm
just sitting there. I'm like, look, this might be the
time to trade both mill Or. And you've got this
situation where Brockbesser where you. He is a UFA and
you need to make a decision on signing him, and
maybe you trade both. And I don't want to say

(37:12):
you get younger and I don't want to say you punt,
but maybe this roster needs a refresh. And then you
watch what J. T. Miller does last night against you.
You cannot give that away? Can you give that away? Like?
I don't, I just I don't know what to do here.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
I mean, well.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
A word, I discovered a new R word for to
describe what the conuff should do thanks to Darren Drager renovate.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, yeah, maybe, but I.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
The Brockbaster situation is completely separate from everything else here.
In my opinion, you have to make a decision on Miller,
and I guess I guess with PD as well. But
I think that you trade one, not both. In my opinion,
you have to. You have to make a decision on
which way you're going and if you and you pick

(38:16):
one or the other, because if you trade both, I
don't I don't know how that ross that roster recovers
within two three five years you find a way to
do a Superstar for superstar trade with p D. I
don't see a team doing.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
That, especially with how inconsistent PDS being over the press.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
With Miller. Yeah, with Miller, what but Alvi needs to
do is fine? Is fine? His version of the Pierre
Luke Dubatre.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Which one, because there was two.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
I think he's seconde of the most recent one.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
The Winnipeg one. No, no, not the most recently it
would have. Yeah. No, they're not. They're not trading him
for a goaltender, could you do They're not doing issue
with the du balne A one. Yeah, but you need

(39:24):
to find someone who can plays center because they don't
have someone who can play center in the top six role.
If they trade Miller.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Does make Mika Zabana Jad interest you in any way?

Speaker 3 (39:37):
No?

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Okay, Although the other name, if the Rangers were the
trade partner, the other name I had heard was Trocheck.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
I'd rather have Troe Check.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, I would too, the guy I think of the
right shot.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
He's better defend simply, Uh yeah, the other one.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I was going to toss in the other name. It's
not with the Rangers, but I what about Martin Kass.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
I know he's not. I mean they tried. They tried
that last year with with with Pete and the way
the way Natus has played this year. I don't think
Caroline's even remotely thinking about moving him.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
No, not right now, but I still don't know if
that is a happy relationship though, either.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Of natures with the Hurricanes, I.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Mean, yeah, yeah, I'm not convinced that's a happy, go lucky.
Everybody loves each other.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
But unlike the Canucks, they're just sucking it up and
dealing with it.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
No, that's fair. I think both of them said, well,
we'll deal with this later. Maybe.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
But he because what guilded end up signing or was
it because I know there was drama about his contract stats.
I just can't remember the specifics of it.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Uh hang on oo, yes there was, and that's what
I remember. And this is like, like for the Flames podcast,
this is the guy I know everybody is pointing at PD.
This is the guy that I if I was the Flames,
I would be looking at more than PD, just because
his contract is cheaper than PD's. But I believe that contract.

(41:35):
I'll just look that up. Anyway, you guys talk while
I looked that up.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Sean, Sean, you're back.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Oh you left?

Speaker 2 (41:46):
He had frozen. Oh and now his mic is gone.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Okay, anyway, like okay, I just for me, Yeah, I
I think you're gonna I agree, You're gonna have to
do something like the Pierre Luke Dubois trade for J. G. Miller,
I think that that's probably your best bet. But I

(42:13):
think for me, the difference between Miller and Dubas, I
feel like like Miller has a higher upside to me
than than du Bois, And I like when Miller plays
the way that he did last night, it's hard to
give up.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
But yeah, but at some at some point, you need
to look at what's happened this year and you know,
try and figure out how to make this team, get
this team back to the level they were playing last year,
even if it is a half step backwards this year,
to go for it next year. It's you look, you

(42:51):
look at Winnipeg as a as an example, and how
they got like they had Blake Wheeler and they got
rid of him. And I don't think it's it's as
clear cut as just get cut bait and run with Miller.
They do need to get a return for him, and
they should be able to, but I think it's with
there needs to be they need they just need to

(43:13):
figure figure out what the direction is with this team,
at least with this season.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, I mean, I think that part of the other
problem with the Canucks here is. Unfortunately, the other three
teams in the Pacific Division in the top three keep winning,
like Vegas keeps winning, although they're on a little bit
of a losing streak now. The Oilers keep getting at
least points or there. They keep winning. The Kings keep winning.

(43:45):
So the Canucks stumbles through here hasn't necessarily helped them
to stay within the top three. And really at this point,
it looks like they're fighting for that final wildcard spot
because you've got Colorado and Dallas and it's going to
be in the other one and you're between Caldry, Saint
Louis Vancouver in a little bit in the distance. You
jah nowt I know Calgary keeps winning and keeps proving

(44:08):
us wrong, but we know there's going to be a
fane at some point. Like where I'm I don't see
how this roster. I don't see how this team stays
in the playoff chase. But maybe it's like with Brad
marshaun Sean. There's Duc Tate with voodoo going on here
that seems to be happening, and they call a guy
up and then there's some guy named have you heard
of this player before? Andre? Who's Manko have you heard

(44:32):
of him?

Speaker 3 (44:34):
You finally score?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, I you know. Uh, so like they find ways
to do it, but I'm just not convinced that they're
going to stick into this race. So this is going
to come down there, to me, between Saint Louis and
Vancouver for that last wild card spot. And that's just like,
I don't think that that's the best position for the

(44:56):
Cannucks to be. And now, if they can get on
themselves on a role in the one, those three teams
can find a way to trip themselves up a little
bit here, maybe they can get themselves into the top three.
But I don't think we can count on that, and
that's part of the problem. And I don't know if
I want to say that they should punt, because I
don't just not what I'm wanting to say, but I'd
like the word, really, what's the word again, renovate, renovate.

(45:20):
I think that that might be the way to go
about about this.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
It's about it's about figuring out what, it's about figuring
out how to make it's not punting on this season.
It's just figuring out how to to make this get
this team back to fighting for a division title next season.
I think it's not again, it's not punting on this season,
but the the the end goal should be about next season.

(45:46):
So any any trade that they make with Miller or
any any player at this point I think is needs
needs to help needs to help them now, but also
needs to be taken to count net season as well.
So if you're looking at whether because I think that
the teams that we've heard are internet that are truly

(46:09):
interested in JT. Miller. Are the Rangers, who the Elliott
Freeman said that they the Canucks and thought they had
to deal with yesterday. We've heard that the Doubt. There's
some rumblings about the Devils, the Stars. Yeah, maybe the Stars.

(46:33):
But I think the other team that I've heard that
I don't know how serious they are, but I wouldn't
be surprised if they would. They would be would be Columbus.
And but the key thing there is like, even if
you're only taking two assets back, one is a high
maybe a center or right shot defenseman who is the

(46:58):
same age and sort of cap area as Miller. But
then you need to make sure that you're getting a
another asset back that is that fills that other void
for next season. So either a younger center or another
a right shot defenseman that can help help slutify that
that side going into next season. Yes, the Connuts are

(47:22):
are hopeful that Tom Blander will will be NHL bound
for next year, but he's also going to be a
rookie and you can't over you can't have the you
can't have the expectations. And he's going to be able
to step in and be a a top four defenseman
or even someone who could carry a pairent. You need

(47:43):
to make sure that you're setting him up for success,
not only short term but long term. There.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Yeah, Hughes in his first season, he was insulated with Tanne.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yeah, you need to make sure that you have the
right you're putting him or if it's a DPD or
Kudratsa or any of the under defensemen that can have
in the system, now put them in a position to
succeed when they come up.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
I mean, the interesting thing with New Jersey is the
name Simon Nimitch has is now in this I should
be playing in the NHL conversation. So I wonder, you know,
that might be a person that the Devils consider moving
on from. But I'm just going to say this right now.
That does not mean that I think Simon Nemich should

(48:34):
be playing in the Canucks lineup. I'm going to assume
my philosophy is ninety to ninety five percent of the
players that have come to the NHL, that are drafted
or free agents need ahel time before they play in
the NAHL. I think that is very rare, very very

(48:55):
rare that a player from the can jump in from
the juniors of the college to play in the NHL.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
That's just me.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
So you still need to develop Simon dmach and I
agree with you one hundred percent. Sean. I had this
conversation on Twitter with the Flames about Zaye Perek and
everyone is expecting, because Zaye Perek is scoring all these
goals in the OHL, that he's just gonna hop right
into this lineup in the NHL and everything is going

(49:22):
to be okay. It's just not right.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
It's coming to cal mccar.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Yeah. Stop almost like downplaying mccar when we were talking
about Quinn Hughes, but like could Hughes and mckail McCart
the the top level of this generation of defensemen that
have come up over the past five, five, six years

(49:49):
and to expect the zame Perak to be able to
come in and be that is just mind boggling, Like
he's just the guy. Yeah there's Qui well if you want,
with the Hockey Canada selections from the World Juniors. But
he was cut for a reason. He wasn't brought in
for a reason, and that's his defensive play.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
And as if he has.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Mccar's defensive play can be he's still solid enough and
when he's on he can he can he can be
really good. That is something that a lot of these
younger offensive offensive defensemen have come into the league over
the past few years have really struggled with. You're looking
at players like Tye Smith comes to mind, like it's

(50:37):
just that people were really high on they were high
draft picks, but just they're undersized and they don't know
how to defend the way and that the way that sayah,
Quinn Hughes has And that's what's something that I don't
think Quinn Hughes gets enough enough. It gets gets enough
credit for for outside of Vancouver and the Canucks fans

(51:01):
in terms of how good he is defensively, especially because
he's so small.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah, yeah, can I just toss one more name from
the New Jersey Devils into this conversation for JT.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Mills, Dawson Mercer.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
I was gonna toss that name, and that's the name
I'm wondering about him. Four million unchill and he's got
a three year contract, twenty so he you know, twenty
three years old. I've always been a big fan of him.
I think that I don't know if the Devils are
going to be willing to part with him, but.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
That's the guy there. You're gonna have to get to it
because to get to get Miller, and the Canucks are
like Alvi's not going to give Miller away. The fact
that there is the Ranger. The Rangers have been on
him since they they try to They tried to start
a rumor about Miller leaving when he was on his

(52:05):
leave of absence. The Devils that are interested, we know,
we heard this. We've heard that there's also multiple there's
multiple teams interested in him. They're gonna the return is
going to be decent, if not pretty damn good if
the Canucks trade Miller, especially in season.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah, I think if you're looking for overall like win
now package return, you're probably gonna get more for Miller
than you will for PD, just based off of how
the last twelve months have gone for either player.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
And I'm not trading PD at this point. Yeah, No,
like you have, you have to see if you make
if you pull the trigger on a Miller trade, you
have to see how PD reacts, because if you look
at his his gamement on Saturday against the Least and
last night against the Oilers, and the effort he put
in and and ever all the details he has, the

(53:03):
points are going to come and he's going to get
back to back back to He may not I don't
know if he's ever going to be a consistently one
hundred point player, but he could be an eighty to
ninety point player who could who plays to a two
hundred foot game. And you know, yeah, and I also

(53:28):
wondered last night if if the Canucks over. Multiple coaches
have miscast both these sent both these players because they've
always had Miller as the quote unquote shutdown guy instead
of letting him be the offensive guy, instead of Pet
being the shutdown guy.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Who it was Miller, Miller was who it was. Lindh
ol match for Dry Shuttle and Miller match with McDavid
in the playoffs, right, Yeah, and they.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Were hard matching Miller versus with the with the McDavid
and drives by the line for most of last night too.
And Miller does a decent job, but he's just his
He has too many just absolutely baffling moments that I
think if I'm gonna as as you said, just when
when he's off, he's off, right. I think TD has

(54:20):
the ability to play that game too. And I think
if I wonder if you switch the roles and he
just let the let the reins the offensive reins off
of Miller a little like, let him loose a little
bit offensively, and you make p D the sort of
the the more Selky defense like two way defensive matchup
for the center. I wonder how that would turn out.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Yeah, I I can see your point there. It engages
pet I think it's like the problem like PD Pete
was ended up with McKay like that, maybe with McKay
van Hoglander in the player offs last year. And I
mean he's got better wingers this year. I wonder if

(55:05):
you start doing that even when Joshua gets healthy and
you know, Peterson Garland Joshua as a line, and then
you know, uh, yeah. I the other I think they
do need a little bit more, like they need more
from Hogelander two, like they really like like three four rods.

(55:26):
Whatever he's got this year.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Is just I liked, I liked this game last night. Yeah,
but he has had multiple ship that that that line
had multiple shifts where he was just all yeah again.
But that's the whole team, and I think part and
that starts from the top outside of Quinn Hughes, the
Stars have not been good enough for the Canuts, and
the Stars were better, Miller and Pedie were better, then

(55:48):
everything else would fall into line. I think even with
that blue line being a bit of a chemistry disaster. Yeah,
I think if I think, I think if PD and
Miller were at the top of their game, we wouldn't
be talking about them fighting for the last playoff spot.

(56:09):
They would be in they'd be in with with uh,
they'd be in that top three conversation a lot more. Yeah,
they can have at least three or four more wins
at least, and that's all that that's all that's missing
is those three you get those three four wins, they're
sitting at what fifty six fifty eight points and right in.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
The hunt of the top three in the Pacific.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Yeah, because the the the oilers are at sixty, the
Vegas is at sixty sixty sixty one in la is
at fifty five, so that puts them right there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Yeah, just one more thing before we move on here.
What would we like for Dallas or JT. Miller for
going to the Dallas starters Walmart Wyatt Johnston. I don't
think he's on the I think he's on the very
high top shelf. That's Walk. And I think you need
to get the customer service manager who only works Monday

(57:15):
to Friday, twelve to three to get it.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
Well, we all we all know who what what? All
all the the Internet scouts and they are based out
of the interior BC would Walk.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
They all even I think even kem would agree with
this name.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Yes, I thought, yeah, think of it would be a
nice nice I think I think that's a perfect replacement
for Miller. The other guy, wouldn't I know that they
well they need to fix the blue line anyway, but
I wouldn't mind asking him if Esla Lindel is available,

(57:56):
maybe talking about it.

Speaker 5 (57:57):
Why that's an asshole, he's he's another left shot though,
Like if you're gonna if you're gonna make a defenseman
as a key part of that, it's gotta be a
right shot.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Yeah, I would say, I honestly, it's by Johnson Van
like you got to give to get at this point.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Yeah, I think would be on the shelf because you're
bringing in a JT. But I don't think Wyatt Johnson
would be on that shelf. I think they're higher on
Whyatt Johnson?

Speaker 3 (58:35):
I mean he's got Nate What did he scored? He
scored thirty three goals, sixty five points last year. He's
got only ten goals so far this year, but he's
got thirty five points, like third leading scorer on the
on the team in points. Stankovin's six goals twenty three
points right now. And yeah, but I if you're if,

(58:55):
if you're going to Dallas, those are the two I'm
asking for.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Anything else on the Canucks that we should get into.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Not at this point, Yeah, I feel like that's enough
for the current debacles that they are dealing with in Connugnation.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Quickly, on the Oilers, I will say this, I think.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
They are they talk I hate him.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Moving on, moving on I was gonna say, they do
look a little bit more prepared for a Stanley Cup
run this year than they did overall last year. Do
you think they looked a little bit better? But this
Western Conference is going to be a tough battle to
get out of.

Speaker 3 (59:48):
This.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
This is going to be a particular slog I think
there's going to be four I think the first for
my bowld prediction, I would not surprise me if all
four series in the first one. I don't go.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Seven yet, Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
I mean, even LA, I think I don't know if
they can beat Edmonton, but they may take it the
seven this time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
The LA team that we're seeing this season definitely seems
has a little bit more of that spark than past years.
I don't know if that's the effect or what.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
But and they'll have doubt it back too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Yeah, but the Wheelers won't have John Klingberg. I understand
why they did it though. It's a good gamble.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
It's a good gamble. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Okay, So we've talked a little bit about the Rangers.
We've had their drama with the Canucks. The Buffalo Sabers
talked about palm trees earlier this year. The Pittsburgh Penguins
seem to be a team that has had some turmoil
on and off. This year. They put Tristan jari On Waivers,
who at one point was probably consideration for Team Canada

(01:01:01):
for the Four Nations. Kyle Dubas is getting skewered. Don't
know if it's a fair skewering by the way on
Kyle Dubas.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
And then you've also had like there seems you've had
Philadelphia with their controversies in some ways with Matt Fay,
Mitchkoff in and out of the lineup at times and
Torts scratching him earlier in the year. We've had a
little bit of a sour poudy face from Connor Bodard
this year in Chicago and they had to replace their coach.

(01:01:33):
Toronto's had some drama with Mitch Barner say saying against
they played well against Vancouver and Chris Tanna saying that
nobody didn't shut up.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Basically, Toronto is just Toronto and Kevin That's that's all that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
That's just Toronto twenty four hours a day, just like
Vancouver is never calm.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Yeah, but is are there more teams feeling like in
turmoil this year. Then you also got Nashville, who has
been I think that people's expectations on Nashville were too
high overall, but I did not expect them to be
this bad.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
No. I think when you look at the new you've
got the teams that have have been dealing with turmoil
over the past two three, a few years, Buffalo, Pittsburgh,
I'm trying to think Buffalo Pittsburgh for sure. And then
you've got the new additions to the club with Vancouver, Rangers,

(01:02:30):
Boston as the as the Big Boss, the Big Ones. Yeah,
and then you throw in all those little mini nitpicks
of things that happened throughout the season. I do think
that this this year seems to be a little more.
There's more teams under fire than I remember from last

(01:02:52):
year or even the year before. It's just if it
feels like with Boston started off with swaymen, now were
they fired their coach. They're potentially looking for another like
that thatn't do anything, and so they're dealing with that.
Rangers have been just a tire fire. Yeah, just don't

(01:03:14):
don't know where to start there. Pittsburgh was started last
year when they missed the playoffs, and they are a
bit of in a bit of a red whatever are
e word do you want to use, reconstruct whatever trying
to do. Yeah, and they're just they don't have they're

(01:03:38):
not getting the goaltending, so that's not helping. Buffalo is
Buffalo and still like it's just it's it's it's the
same tune, different lyrics with with Buffalo. I think, so
it's just so you you and there hasn't hasn't really

(01:03:59):
been in. There hasn't really been too many teams that
really sort of really turned it around. Ottawa was getting close,
Montreal is starting to see that way. Let's add to
Detroit to the list of teams that aren't haven't taken
the step that people work have been expecting. And that's

(01:04:23):
you're starting to see the isis are planned fall under
more scrutiny this year. They're another team that's sort of
year after year the turmoil has built. So I think
it's yeah, I think it's just your see. I think
it feels bigger and louder because of Boston, Vancouver and
the rangers of teams with big expectations and big market

(01:04:47):
yeah that are underwhelming.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Okay, So I know that Betman has always like tried
to get parody with the success in the league. But
we don't need parody and turmoil.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
I mean, honestly, with with with with the way things
are at and the salary cap. The turmoil is going
to happen when you have parody, especially with big markets
and inpatient owners and expectations. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Although, yeah, the magnet's going to be going up as
aggressively as it will be over the next two years,
is going to be interesting to see how that factors in.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
I think that I think that might be why we're
seeing it this year is because there is there's I
think there was a little bit more patience when the
cap was flat and there was only so much you
could do. The cap went up a little bit this year,
pete teams were able to spend a bit more. The
CAP's going up more next year, and the the fan

(01:05:48):
bases have more expectations, the owners have more expectations, and
when things don't go well, all hell breaks loose.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Well, let's I'm just going to go through some of
these teams here. I think that people don't I think
that people forget how actually big of a market not
huge and like in terms of a media market, but
that is a pretty intense fan base in Nashville that
has some expectations. It is it is. It's not a
Canadian hockey market, but there's a hockey fan base in Nashville,

(01:06:24):
and there's been expectations over the years. And they've been
through this before where they made the big PK Sue
Bandal and thought that they were going to be a
Cup contender and came in from the wildcard spot. So
I think what happened in Nashville is they were expecting
more from Novak and Evangelista. They didn't get it. They
just under it. They underestimated the bottom half of that
roster and thought that Stanko's and Marcishaw and Brady Shay

(01:06:48):
would top up what's gone on there, and it just
hasn't happened, and they haven't got that. They haven't got
consistent only from Sarah's Pittsburgh. I think Kyle Dubis is
getting a little bit too much critics. I do think
the Eric Carlson trade did not work out, but I
do think that Jay Denzel trade actually worked out for them,
And I think Philip Thomasino so far has looked good

(01:07:09):
in Pittsburgh, and they're starting to get it a little
bit together. They're a little older, and they they're in
a situation where you're not training Crosby, you really don't
want to trade Sidney Crosby, and you should not trade
Sidney Crosby, and you should not trade Againny Malcolm. He's
doing what he can with the margins. I think he's
getting too much criticism there Buffalo. I have a question

(01:07:33):
about that. Nobody's talking about. Who's Rasmus dalling this guy
is for a first pick in a draft has been
awfully quiet.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
I mean, I think that's more because of this the
tire fire that he's in in Buffalo. When you're a
good defenseman and you're in on a bad team, it's
really hard to look good, especially to out outside outside
the market.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
You could almost probably make your same argument that he
can kind of dealt with before Dallas really turned the corner.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
When you're when you're constantly defending and constantly on the
back foot, it's so hard to show sho well as
a defenseman.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
That's fair. I just feel like he's he's just it
feels too quiet for me from him. But and the Rangers.
I think the way that they handled the Barkley good
Roast situation pissed the team off. I think that even

(01:08:40):
the way they handled the Jacob Truba situation pissed the
team off, because I don't think Truba really I think
Jacob Truba had some really good reasons to stay in
New York because of his family, and they were trying
to trade him. And I think what you can you
can say what you want about how you like Jacob
Truba play mean the games. He was the captain of

(01:09:03):
the team for a reason, and I think I don't
think that. I think the range that Rangers dressing room
got pissed off of how that good Row and Troubert
situation was handled. And then and they haven't really recovered.
They're kind of trying to recover, but they haven't really recovered.

(01:09:26):
And then who's the other team that we're talking about
that's in Turmo, Well, the Canucks, And.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
Then yeah, we've talked yeah, yeah, And I think the
on the traits right, it's just they made they made
the betting bets on players like d t Komfer and
others that just haven't worked out.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Yeah, they like the Jake Wollman trade is a bizarre trade. Yeah,
they just yeah, I mean in top Cloudlin is helping
that team. They're getting that coach bump. We'll see where
that goes. And they have some goaltending. I think they
wanted more goaltending. Yeah, so in Ottawa.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
All the ones being absolutely fantastic considering that the goaltending
situation that they've had, they've been dealt with with injuries
and everything this year.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Yeah they are.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
They've gotten the short straw in terms of yeah, goalie injuries.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
And do you want to hear my bold four Nations prediction.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Finland's winning it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
No, it's it's as Sam Mantebo is going to play
a game for Team Canada.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
You think they're in an elimination game, then they give
every goalie a game. H yeahs almost been supplanted by
like this, like new upstart in Montreal.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Yeah, both of those goalies have gone really well. That
don't Jake Kid is really good too, Like they are
getting they're getting they are getting for sure. But Matibo
has looked a lot better, is starting to play better
and I would not be surprised if he gets a game.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
I don't think he's play him over Bennington.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
Yeah, I think no. I think I think that it's
going to be Hill and Bennington splitting the net in
the first two games, and then whoever plays better gets
the third game. And then if that player, that goalie
plays well, that's who gets the final.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
If they make it, we'll see, I could be I
will keep that as a bold prediction. And then quickly
I want to spend a little bit of time on the.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
P H O P who.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
But I'll just ask does Ovie break the record this year?

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I mean, with how he's come out of the Canada
since uh coming back from that broken foot, and just
how quickly he came back from that broken foot, I'm
not going to count him out. Clearly he's motiva.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
How many more does he need?

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
I want to say it's like around twenty now, like
he'd have to have a pretty sick.

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
I'm gonna stick with no. I think he'll come close.
But I think he'll be like a handful of.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Shorts, like five goals short ish.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Yeah, I I think I think he I think he
gets within one and he breaks it in the first
game of the year next year, opening night.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
That would that would be that, that would be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
Yeah, that would be good entertaining TV.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Uh, I wanted to talk a little bit of about
the p WHL and then first of all, Hockey Day
in Canada yesterday. They do a great job with that.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
I think it's great, but I do think that a
long time of the year for it though.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Yeah, it's yeah, it is, especially when with the NFL
playoffs on. It's yeah, it's a tough competition, it really is.
But I do think that they need to find a
way to get the p w HL in involved. A
p WHL game should be part of Hockey Day in Canada.
I'm making that motion. I think that that would be

(01:13:34):
great to add to that's a good place for Hockey
Day in Canada, which maybe you moved to move it
after the Super Bowl.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Move it after the Super Bowl and make it Hockey
Weekend in Canada. Yeah, and have it over the Saturday
and Sunday with some PWHL games sprinkled in. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
Yeah, I think that that's that would be great. But
Dan and I had this conversation yesterday because the p
WHL had a truer game in Vancouver this week where
nineteen thousand fans showed up at Rogers Arena, and he
asked me if the PWHL would survive in either a
Calgary or Vancouver. So I will propose the question to you.

(01:14:17):
Could the PWHL have a team in Calgary and or Vancouver?

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
I think, given enough time for the lead to develop, absolutely,
But I think where Sean and I both immediately go
is the fact that if you try and expand too fast,
too quick, it doesn't help anyone.

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
The issue is the travel costs and the travel expenses.
The girls, the players who went on this tour were
traveling with carry on baggage only. So, like, the only

(01:14:58):
way that would work at this point in the the
p w h l's like growth and where they're at
as a league is if they get a massive sponsorship
deal and discount on travel and accommodations for the traveling teams.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Yeah, like if Eric Canada became like a primary sponsor
and like would like subsidize their air flight or what have.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
You, could you do it if you went like I
just let's toss this scenario. I'm just gonna toss this scenario.
You do have Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Seattle four grouteam group
and then you limit the you have the limited travel,
and that's kind of your league at this point until

(01:15:47):
you can figure you.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
Have a West League in the East, you have a
West League in the East League, and then the winners
of both of those meet in the in the final.
I mean maybe I I I still like keeping keeping
it small until it at like, until until you're almost
forced to you're you're forced to grow it. I think

(01:16:10):
how the p w h L has handled this so
far has been pretty damn good.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
I think the only my my only quibbal is I
think to get it out in that last year they
rushed things, but it seems to work out for them anyways,
So I think it's that's just a quibble. I don't
think they need to rush things anymore. Keep it small,
keep doing these the these these bar and storming tours,

(01:16:36):
keep selling out, the these the making making every time
they stop in Edmonton, every time they stop in Vancouver, Denver,
all these places, make them and and keep making them
special until you can build up enough momentum and sponsors

(01:16:56):
and revenue that it makes sense that they can travel.
Because even if you're doing a Western a Western side
like the travel, the travel, there is still a lot
more than what's currently in in currently with the teams
right now. So you've got Ottawa and Toronto. That's an

(01:17:19):
easy commute. Ottawa Montreal, that's an easy commute. Toronto Montreal,
easy commute. Boston is just so.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Much more populated.

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
It's hard to even two Boston. Boston and New York.
It's an easy commute. Minnesota is a bit far farther west,
but they seem they make it work because because yes,
I think if you it again, I still think that
even if you do a West like conference, but it's

(01:17:51):
pretty much split, very similar to the baseball was before
the interleague play happened, then maybe you could maybe make
it work, but the travel is still pretty significant, especially
if you're like, yeah, Vancouver Seattle is easy because you're

(01:18:11):
dealing with a border. Vancouver, Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton. Vancouver and
Calgary Edmonton's easy. But you know, you know, dad person
don't want a team. Yeah, right, So I don't know
how Alberta's would would feel if they just tried to
do an albert An Alberta team and split the home

(01:18:32):
games between Calgary and Edmonton. The logistics of that anyways,
would be an absolute pain in the ass, so I
don't think they would do that, but let alone. Yeah,
I want to say Winnipeg, but they've are They're already
struggling to support multiple hockey teams in that in that

(01:18:56):
market right now. So I yes, I think I think
it's in five in take a look at it in
five ten years.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
We all want to see the p w HL succeed
and for that, I think it requires slow growth. Yes,
even if it's painful to deal with with our aspirations,
which is what we've just been talking about. But yeah, ultimately,
if we want this league to succeed in the long term,
it has to be slow, calculated growth.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
I think with Vancouver, the I think that where it
can work is there's not really an alternative alternative to
the Canucks in the winter. I mean, the Giants are
a little too far out of the way when they
play it Langley, and it is hard to get to
an Abbotsford Connucks game if for those that don't have
a vehicle, which I wish that I wish that would

(01:19:53):
be fixed in home ways that there is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
Very suggesting that whatever expansion franchise would play out of
Rogers Arena.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean that would be good.
Even if you could somehow renovate Pacific Colisseum, that could
be like they're like I think one of the things
like just go I'll use the Vancouver Canadians and is
an example. They're a cheap alternative night out towards the
Lions and the white Caps for those that can't afford

(01:20:20):
to go to Lions or white Caps games. And we
don't know what's going to happen with the white Caps
going forward with the sale of the team, but the
Canadians have always kind of been there the old Calgary Cannons, right,
you could spend a few bucks, eat a hot dog,
you don't could just sit there and watch a baseball game.
But they don't really have a winter alternative here and

(01:20:40):
alternative here in Vancouver, not where Calgary. You have the hitmen,
you have the wranglers that all play in that same arena.
And that's the problem in Calgary is I think that
has to be you will have to wait until the
new arena is built because you will need a smaller
arena for them. And what Dan and I are came
to the inclusion of the concern is is there's not

(01:21:02):
really another building in Calgary that the p w h
L could play out of because they don't have the
Max Bell Arena. Doesn't really work anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:21:10):
Win Sports doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Yeah, yeah, it just doesn't really And that wouldn't work either.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
So yeah, and I well that's the thing, Like Calgary
is missing a mid a slot, a five a five
thousand seed arena that fits what you need for these
these minor league teams.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Now, yeah, I think I think.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
I was just a prosperous place earlier this week and
their capacity is like eighty five hundred for hockey games. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
Yeah, like that's what.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
You need for that to succeed in Calgary.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
And and and honestly, it's you're banging on on both counts, keV.
I think within the markets, I think there there is
a demand. It's just the cost of doing business to
travel to all the other markets that is the issue. Yeah,
And that's what I think a lot of people miss
when they're having these discussions. I want I want, I

(01:22:11):
want whatever moves the PWHL to make to be successful.
So I want them to be calculated, and I want
them to be made at the right time.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Yeah, And I got to tell you just you know,
last night I had the opp Saturday night, I had
the opportunity to call a four fourteen you Female super
League game between Edmonton and Langley, and they played their
guts out, Like I mean, the passing was off a
little like it's fourteen year olds playing hockey, so it's
not going to be like incredibly skilled, but they played,

(01:22:45):
they played their hearts out, they worked really hard. I
just I would love to see I'd love to see
a really strong women's game going forward. I think we
all want that, but I do I think it's just
going to take a lot a little bit more. We're
gonna is going to have to take be slow. And
that's okay, I think I think more.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
Than okay, I think it's there. Is there, there is
a demand for it when that's fantastic, but you have
to do it right. Yeah, because when you look at
what's what has been a hamper to the to the
the women's professional professional women's game is that it hasn't
been done right, and it feels like it's been rushed
and in certain aspects and they haven't been able to

(01:23:30):
be sustainable. We need the sustainability first and then you
can grow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
Yeah, yeah, I even even in the grassroots, just seeing
that grow a little a little bit by gut, like yeah, yeah, yeah.
I want everybody to have the opportunity to play hockey
like I really do.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
Yeah, we all do, keV.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Yeah, Okay, we got to get ready because as we
are about thirty minutes away from football, and I know
we're a hockey podcast, but I love my NFL and
I must watch my NFL and so but and everyone
else here playoffs and it'll be fun. Anyway. How do

(01:24:15):
we follow everyone?

Speaker 3 (01:24:17):
I am beating Connects. Therea three on X and.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
I am at Schneid's on most of the social media's.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Tyler is t N O B l E. I know
he's on Twitter. I don't know if he's on the
other social media's because he's continuously telling everybody he is
calm down, calm down. He's probably you imagine him hearing
my random McDavid at the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
I was looking for my popcorn.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Yeah, give us the heads up next time, keV.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Damn uh. Devin is coming back sometime. He's de Holmes
Smith on the Instagram. He's a he's busy. He's busy
with his business. So we will get him back for
those that follow the Flames fireside chat, we'll be having
a conversation recorded tonight about the Flames and what they're

(01:25:08):
up to. We are going to also planning to do
sort of a lengthier NHL Issues podcast, and this is
really to try to cut down the Flames in Canucks
podcast to a little bit of a shorter time and
allowed for more extended discussion on NHL at hockey issues.
So we're looking into that as well, so stay tuned

(01:25:28):
for that. But thanks everyone for watching, thanks for listening,
and we will talk to you well very soon. Bye
for now. Oops, can you lead the stream?
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.

The Joe Rogan Experience

The Joe Rogan Experience

The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.