Extending Andersson_ Playing Wolf more_ RIP Al MacNeil

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, here we go. Wait, no, that's not what
we do. Hang on, hang on, okay, sorry one second here,

(00:25):
we haveing some technical issues. I'm holding on. Should I mean?

(00:58):
Can I quote? I'll be there in a minute, give
me a second.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Time is relative, folks, Time is relative.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
So hey, cheers to everybody in the chat? Is their
division rival? I don't care how many how many wins
they get. Screw them. I wasn't the take I was
expecting me here.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I want to gush over watching live Christanna.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
I think that we completely underestimate the skill it takes
to play defense.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
One highlight or several highlights does not call their trophy.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Mate. I'm stepping in here. I'm going to be the
cross of the old man here. They need to learn patience.
They need to understand the tension everything in the end
and the drama.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh, Derek, look at this.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
How is mcgamers not getting a penalty? You got? You
guys need to calm down with this. Okay, you guys
need to calm down with Well, I'm not very calm
right now because if you're watching on YouTube, I something
has just changed on the overlay here. So one second, well,

(02:07):
I try to I'm gonna try to fix this here quickly.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
No, I need to hum some hum some hold music.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Okay, you know what. I'm gonna leave it for now,
but welcome to the Shifts and Pucks Podcast. Some technical
issues because stream yard changes things every once in a while,
it doesn't let people know that you change things. So
there we go. You can I'm not calm Tyler right now,

(02:35):
not calm at all. But you can follow us on
Twitter at Shifts and Pucks, Facebook dot com Shifts and Pucks,
YouTube dot com Shifts and Pucks, and subscribe wherever you
get your audio. Joined by Dan, Hello, Dan, how are you?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
I'm doing good?

Speaker 1 (02:51):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Kevin?

Speaker 1 (02:52):
I was doing good until the I don't know what
I did here, but I the Uh I hit a
button and.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
You need you need a show producer?

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, I yeah, I need to yeah something someone in
the background because I can't. It is really hard to
do host this and yeah, there were No, I don't
what I want. It's really hard to post in and
have the buttons at the same time sometimes.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
So tell me to vamp while you're trying to figure
this out.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
No, we're just gonna leave it because I apologize everyone
I did something on my end. I don't know how
to fix it, and I'd rather just might as well
just keep going. They're not They're not here for the background.
They're here for our fine faces anyway. And by the way,
again before we go on here and get into the

(03:46):
flames conversation, but officially, I think I am officially a
Vancouver eight and I think that there was a way
that I can prove that to you now. And uh,
looked at this morning, woke up this morning. It is
a very cold, and I'm sure you're going to appreciate
this minus one here in Vancouver, which I find to

(04:11):
be actually cold, as you all upset with in set
in Calgary with very windy and cool conditions.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Over the week, minus eighteen right now? What's that minus
eighteen right now?

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah? Yeah, so, I mean, you sound.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Like the president elect. It's too cold outside of minus
six to do your inauguration outside?

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yes, well it is, yes, but no, that's too cold.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
He's not gonna like it. He's not gonna like the
temperatures in Greenland and Canada if he tries to take
those into the States.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I know, I know, he's probably Yeah, if he
does want the fiftieth Canada to be the fifty first rate.
He's he's got some surprises ahead of him, I think.
So anyway, that's for another podcast we will here.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Just so, we did point out that if that happens,
the NHL would truly be a national hockey league and
it would only be one nation.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
There we go, and yeah, how would the four nations
go for that? Right?

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Well, I mean he would not have Sweden or some
of the other nations under his purview yet, so that'd
be fine.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, uh so, yeah, there we go. That's what dad
is before we get into the meat of our conversation, Dan,
I do think we need to start with honoring really
a generational flame, a lengthy, lifelong flame. And we say

(05:44):
life long flame because his career did expand into Atlanta
as well, and that is and I'm gonna let you
chit chat a little bit and that will allow me
to kind of do some background things on my end here.
But McNeil passed away within the last couple of weeks.

(06:05):
That Flames honored him during the game on Saturday versus
the LA Kings last Saturday, and I think they're going
to do something a little bit more for him. As
the season goes on here, I mean, it's been a
tough year. We'll get into that. We to talk about
some of the top news stories of the year. But

(06:25):
this is a guy I think that younger Flame fans
will not recognize the impact that he had, but older
Flame fans like us will recognize the impact he had
on that nineteen eighty nineteen that won the Stanley Cup,
as well as the influence that he had in getting
Jerome again let the Calgary. He was part of that

(06:46):
staff and he was consistently of a person that the
Flames received feedback, continued to be giving handwritten grades to
the Flames even up to this year. So he has
been an influential flame management person really since the beginning
in including in the Atlamat. So this is actually a

(07:07):
pretty significant loss for the Flames community.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
YEP, a guy who's been around for a while. I
mean started as his own NHL career in fifty five
to fifty six with the Maple Leafs and played himself
in the NHL pretty much until sixty seven sixty eight,
where he played for Pittsburgh. Like you said, join the
the Atlanta Flames in seventy nine eighty and was the
first head coach for the Flames when they moved to Calgary.

(07:31):
A lot of people forget even though he only officially
coached for the Flames un till the end of eighty two.
He actually stepped into the mid season replacement in O
two oh three after Greg Gilbert got fired. There's a
name that Flames fans forget it. Greg Gilbert was the
head coach here.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
That was between now if I remember this correctly, that
was sort of the Christmas but they fired Greg Gilbert.
They brought in Darryl Sutter, but there was sort of
that buffer in between that they needed.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, he was coached for eleven games in twenty five
total days. So Gilbert was fired on December third, twenty
twenty two, and it took twenty five days to replace him.
Darryl Sutter was the was the guy who was brought
in and at the time Al McNeil returned to being
special assistant to GM.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Craig.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Button McNeil's been around forever. He's one of these old
hockey guys, like you said, he's you know, been working
with the Flames organization, I think officially or unofficially for
as long as he could A guy who's always seen
around the dome, especially around the press box, a guy
who I think, I think it's a bigger loss than

(08:40):
people understand. And yes, maybe you don't know the name,
but he's been constantly involved in the organization. He's a
face everybody knows, and not a lot of people know this.
His grandson, Jason Sparks, actually joined the La Kings in
the twenty twenty two NHL drafts, so at least that
al McNeil family lineage will continue on in the NHL.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, he also had an influence on the Olympic team.
He was one of the people that brought in Dave King.
He was big behind that higher and back in the
day he and I think from all in all of
those things he was. He's a really good man and
it is a big loss of the community and he
kind of look, you know, well, we'll get into we're

(09:22):
going to talk about the stories of the year. But
it's been a tough year for the Flames overall. Like
just in terms of the last couple of years, Chris
no al McNeil, Johnny Goodrow, Matthew Gidreau, Mgodrow family, it's
been a pretty tough year overall. So I mean, I
think the condolences should be given to the Flames family,

(09:43):
McNeil family, and I do hope they do something to
you know. I mean, they don't need to do a
big ceremony or change a street or anything, but this
is I think that is we go on to generations.
I think that one of the things I I think
that one of the things that has to happen is

(10:04):
sort of that educational piece of some of the past Flames.
Like I know that everybody knows Lanny McDonald, but there's
a lot of other people that I think the Flames,
younger Flame fans should take the time to know when
one of them is Al mcgeal.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
So I think this is a great example, Kevin, of
why in the new building they need some sort of
i'll call it a museum for lack of a better
term right now, but they need some sort of wall
of honor or ring of fire or whatever they want
to call it. That Forever Flame program extended, because you
said elmc'n neil has been around forever with the Flames,
Like there's a guy who deserves some sort of honor.

(10:38):
I don't think they'll do it in the Saldome. They've
still got old stuff there from you know, the Olympic team,
which I understand for why it was built, but the
Sealdome exhibits are starting to age, and I think you
need some sort of exhibit like that of the new
building where you can honor him and even guys, you
know behind the scenes, some of the equipment managers, guys
like you know, Gus Thornton, who deserve that recognition but

(11:00):
weren't necessarily the face that the fans saw. Like, there's
a lot of people that deserve recognition in the Flames.
Need to find a way to do that.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I agree speaking to the past, we
have not had a chance to podcast about the Flames
since Christmas, just because, of course it's a busy time
of year. I was working a lot out, so we'll
get into it, so as I was dealing with some
mental health challenges as well, but you know, busy time

(11:32):
of year. So this is the first Flames podcast from
twenty twenty five. Happy New Year to all, uh and
we'll but just we haven't had a chance to recap
the stories of the year for the Calgary Flames, and
I'll just do my five here won't spend a lengthy
amount of time on them, but we can. We'll go
through them. On the number five story I put is

(11:53):
the jersey retirement and Mika kipper us off. And the
reason I selected this dan was, you know, this was
the time there was a lot of tension within the
Flames fan base. We just went through the Elias lind
Home trade. We thought Jacob Markstrom was on his way out.
It really looked the Flames were fading into the non playoff.

(12:15):
This was just before the Christna of Noah Hannafin trade
has happened. It was kind of one of those nights
where I think it was we talked about the year
and bringing the generations together. I think everybody agrees that
Mika Kippersov is a beloved member of the Flames community,
and I think this jersey retirement was long past due

(12:36):
and this was the time that they brought everybody together.
It was against the Pittsburgh Penguins, they won the game.
It was a really good night. I thought I put
that as the number five story of the year. There's
probably a few other options that could have fit in there,
but I decided the jersey retirement was number five.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
I think the Jersey retirement also kind of symbolically shows
a changing of times within the organization, right going from
those guys. I mean that was the four team when
the Flames were last, let's be honest, the last most
successful run they've had and now going into a bit
of a rebuild. And I think there was a bit
of a symbolism to retiring that, you know, having Jerome

(13:15):
up in the rafters, already, having Kipper there, now having
Jerome part of the organization and Conrad of the GM.
I think it's it's showing a changing of the garden
a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, Number four I specifically decided on the trade of
Elias Lindholm and if you look at the story around,
the conversation was around what you would pay Elias lind Holme,
And of course a lot of people did agree think
that this would be the most significant asset at the
time to get this for the Flames to get and

(13:47):
they did end up getting quite a bit a first
round pick, Hunter Perscavage, another which the first round pick
was Gardeen a defenseman, Joni Irmo and Andre Cuzmako. Now
andres making has certainly not been any close to the
success that anyone hoped when he first started here, and
that's a whole other topic. But I think this was

(14:11):
sort of the Craig Conroy puts his stamp started, Craig
Conroy putting his stamp on the team. So that's why
I put this at number four, I think. And it
technically wasn't a trade deadline deal. This was sort of
before the All Star Game game that this trade happened,
So that's was for me. That's why I put this
at number four.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, I mean it was Conroy's first big deal, I think,
even more than the Lindholm trade. I think Lindholm since
then has become a story. I mean, I think Boston's
probably regretting the deal now. He didn't really do a
lot in Vancouver like it.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
I think when you look at people said, oh, Calgary
should have paid that money, I think everybody now is going, wow,
Conroy was right not to. But yeah, I think this
was the first shot across the bow that okay, as
you know, a Calgary Flames organization, we are ready to
make some big changes here. And that I think was
that first time that everybody saw and went, oh, yeah, okay,

(15:08):
Conroy's doing what needs to be done.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Number three was the Jacob Markstrom trade. Now
this is a bigger book to it. Of course, Let's
start with the rumored Jacob Markstrom trade, which was in February.
That night in San Jose that Dustin Wolf started. It
was sort of his It was sort of the debut.

(15:32):
There was the debut of the significance of Dustin Wolf
and was court of that night. A lot of people
thought that Jacob Markstrom was sort of signing autographs. It
felt like he was gone. The speculation was a trade
to New Jersey which included either a first round pick
in Alexander Holt. Now the report is, and I'm just
gonna say, there is some that are reporting that this

(15:54):
deal was nixed by ownership. I don't know that to
be true or not, but what I do know ofally,
mark Strom did get traded in the summer for first
round pick and Kevin Ball and Dan. I don't know
what happened in February, but I would argue I would
make the suggestion that the Flames came out better with
the Kevin Ball trade than they did the Alexander Holts trade.

(16:16):
You got a guy that is a steady left shot,
defenseman that will be around for a while. Is he
a number one defenseman? No? Is he eventually going to
be a three to four Robin McGear? Probably yes. I
think that that's more. I'm not going to say he's
like Robin McGear, but I think he's more of a
three to four guy. But he's a guy that's going

(16:36):
to be steady down your left side. And I think
this is a better acquisition overall than the Alexander Holtz
would have been. You would have got I know the
Flames need right shot players, but it feels like you
would have got another another guy that you would have
been questioning. You could argue the Flames need offense. I

(16:57):
think that that's a legitimate argument. I just don't know
if Alexander Holtz is the guy to do that. I
think Kevin Ball was a better acquisition.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
On paper, and not knowing what Kevin ballby come for
the Flames, I cannot see how ownership would have nixed
one and not the other. I mean, Ball is probably
the if you look at it where they were at
the time, sort of the consolation prize in a way.
I think Alexander Holts is the guy that projected to
be the better player, So I can't see management want

(17:27):
to do one and not the other, or ownership. I
don't know if I buy that part, but I agree.
I think that Holts. I mean, he's gone to Vegas.
Vegas a good team and he's only got ten points
in forty four games so far. Like he's not looking
as good as I think they wanted him to. He's
really more of a winger, I think, than the centerman,
and the Flames really need centers right now. But I

(17:47):
think that bringing in Ball and seeing what Ball's done
is another sign. I mean, I can't think of a
bad deal Conor has done so far, and I think
we got to give. It's gonna happen. It happens to everybody.
At some point there will be a less than desirable deal.
But I think that right now, you go, wow, Okay,
they saw something to this guy, they brought him in.
They got the right guy. And the way I look

(18:09):
at a lot of these deals, Kevin is if you
don't want to be in Calgary, don't be in Calgary.
Like the Flames moved a guy who didn't want to
be here, didn't want to come back. Great, they got
some value, good deal from that respect I have, I
wouldn't have probably put this, I wouldn't have put this
higher than the Lindholm deal myself in terms of impact.
But I think I think this is the one that

(18:32):
surprised me the most of the deals in terms of
what the Flames got back, because I didn't know what
to expect from Ball.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Yeah, I think that the I think that this was
a one. The reason I put it three was the
lengthier controversy and sort of the underlying stories that came
through it. We've got to see Dustin Wolf, we got
to see Dan Lugar. I think the impact of this
trade I think has had more lingering. The impact of
this trade has had more of an impact on the

(18:58):
Flames than ultimately the Lindholme trade has had so far.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
That's why so so far. But I think in the
end the assets from the Lindholm trade will go further
for this organization.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yes, I think you're I think you were right. I
do agree with you on that.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
But like if if we look at that Kevin Ball
in the first, we don't know what that first will be,
but it'll be a mid to late first. I think
if nothing else, we look at the Lindham trade Kuzmenko. Yeah, okay,
he's not doing what they need, but you know what,
he's getting them to the salary floor. He's a popular
guy in town. Pristavich, I think is the real key there,
Meoni Irmo. Obviously, the first which I think that's the

(19:37):
first became uh Gridad Yeah, and and I think that'll
be a good pick, and then the the the you know,
I think though you'll see a lot more benefit from
that going forward.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah. I unless you can make the argument that Dustin
Wolf is sort of an asset in terms of he's
become became the number one.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Guy, but I think that would have happened either way.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, that's true, that's right.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
I mean, I don't if the team is rebuilding this year,
I don't see why you would be why you would
have not brought Wolf up and started to move him
into that you know, first first guy, a one a role.
I mean, if if you're playing every other with him
and Vladaar, you could have easily done him and Markstrom
every other.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's I guess that's true. I
mean Markstrom has made his impact, is making an impact
in New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
To me, Markstrom did not Impede Wolfe's move to the NHL.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah, no, No, Dustin wolf was coming anyway, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I think if anybody's kind of upset with it's probably
Dan Vladar, who was the heir apparent to Markstrom. Then
Markstrom leaves and now he's got another kid who's sharing
that those duties.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, we will get into the segment I'm going to
call defending down Vlodare in a few moments.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
All right.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
The other two stories, the construction of Scotia Place. I
think this was a long time coming. I think this
was I think it's fair to say the second biggest
disaster handled by Calgary City Council other than the Green Line,
which seems to be from Aurra. I'm sitting in fridge
in Vancouver and an absolute disaster of how that's been

(21:15):
handled this. You know, yet Calgary next, you still have
a you still have a McMahon stadium that yes, you're
having the Great Cup there, Dan, but that the stadium
needs needs some work, Like there needs to be a
new stadium in Calgary. Like I'm sorry that needs to happen.
But everything that went through this, this went through two

(21:39):
or three city councils, two or three mayors, even a
couple of premiers. The fact that the construction has finally
happened positive step. I think, and you know, any other
year than twenty twenty four, this is the flame story
of the year. Dan, so oh, I lost Dan. Hang

(22:06):
on a second, but that's the second story of the year,
as we lose Dan here. But the number one story
for me and I think was the hockey story of
the year was the passing of Johnny and Matthew Gaudreau.
I think, of course we'll remember. I think everybody will

(22:28):
remember the that late August night that the reports came
out on Oh there we are, Dan, Okay, yeah, so
let's go back when then.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
We'll try about that. I had an internet issue on
the side.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Okay, So any other year, Dan, I think we I
don't know if what you heard, but basically through all
of this, everything that happened in Calgary with Calgary.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Next, yeah, and Scotia Place finally breaking ground.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, this is any other year, this would have been
the big story. This would have been the story of
the year. But I think finally seeing the construction of this,
I think is the story. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
I mean I heard you talk about McMahon. We have
to remember that McMahon is a different beast because it's
not owned by the Flames, owned by the university. So
the Flames can't come in and make changes to somebody
else's property, right, they are tenets in it. You know,
we could debate all you want about where's a better
place for an arena I or for a football stadium.
I have an idea that will never happen, but that's

(23:28):
another maybe for a CFL podcast. I think Calgary Next
or Scotial place that what I call the Calgary Next
project still happening, I think is a good thing. I
think it's going to be a good arena. I'm not
really sold in the name of the design, but what
do I know. I'm sad that the Saldom is going
to be knocked down and not part of our skyline anymore.

(23:49):
That's to me, the worst part of this whole thing.
But it's time. I mean, it's you know, it's a
great arena. I love watching hockey in this Aldome. It's
sad it's going away. I'm excited for the new rink.
I think it's going to do a lot of good
things for the city. My whole issue with this, that's
been the issue since the beginning. Calgary does not have
a secondary building. I think in a city of Calgary size,

(24:11):
you want that twenty thousand seed venue and you need
kind of your ten thousand seed venue, your smaller venue
form monster trucks and wrestling and smaller shows. And right
now we go from the Seldom to wind Sport or
Max Bell and I think that's one thing we're going
to realize the city we're missing, is that sort of
mid size venue.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, you know that. I mean just again, sitting here,
just from event, sitting here from a Vancouver perspective, I think, yeah,
you need to have that. It just helps. I think
it helps even with the economy within the city because
you're allowing people to go to different places for different things, right,
and you're allowing so.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
And I think, you know, for a city that has
an NHL team and AHL team, a WHL team, an
NLL team, and I would be surprised if not a
PWHL team very soon. You can't run all those out
of one building. If you also want to get concert revenue,
like I think they need, you know, a seven to
ten thousand seed venue where the Hitmen can play and

(25:12):
where you can put the you know, where you can
put the HiT's hit Men logo on the ice and
just kind of go with that as your smaller venue.
And yeah, I think that's That's the one thing that
excited me about the twenty twenty six Olympic bid going
way back was the ability to have multiple venues for that.
And I think that's the one thing Calorie's overlooking in

(25:34):
this is not having that venue.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
And I know that a lot of people are pushing
back on this because there's millionaire role there's billionaire owners
and millionaire players and why aren't you playing and paying
for this? And that I get that, But here's my
other side of that argument is amateur sports is important
and I think that you need to, like you need

(25:59):
to developed that kind of community. And one of the
things that is being lost with a lot of the
local news being kind of decentralized at being centralized a
little bit, is we are losing those local stories about
you know, the young Calgary hitman player or high school
football or university hockey. All of those things without these

(26:22):
good arenas cannot happen. And I think it's like I
would say this even in Vancouver. I think that there
needs to be some sort of secondary arenas. Harder to
find it here, but it's important. It's I think the
amateur sport growth is important.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
And I think we have to look at an arena
outside of just the millionaire hockey players. I mean, people
in Calgary have complained for years that certain concerts are
going to Edmonton or certain consts are going to Vancouver.
You're gonna get those to come to Calgary now in
some cases, but even outside of that, if you look
at this as more than a hockey rink, I encourage
anybody to take a look at the entertainment district plan
the city's put out there. There's gonna be hotel's, there's

(26:59):
gonna be an art there's gonna be a lot of
meeting places. Like nobody's going downtown right now, and I
still believe this city needs gathering spots. Look at the
for Flames fans, look back at the legend that is
still the Red Mile, right. We need that place. And
this is going to provide us that, yes, there's a
hockey rink, but there will also be a place for

(27:20):
you know, concerts, There'll also be a place for people
to get together and gather around different events. It's gonna
help with the events center. The new BEMO renovations are
gonna bring a lot of money into the city with
bigger conferences coming, other things going on, like you know,
these are This is an economic driver more than it
is just a hockey rink.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, I agree, Yeah, I totally. I'm totally with you
on that.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
And that's where I think a lot of people forget
that is that there's more to this than just a
place for the NHL to play hockey. And you know,
as a kid, and you ever mentioned amateur sports, there's
also a thousand seed arena attached to this, which is
gonna be the Flames practice facility. I know how stoked
I would have been as a kid if I got
to play in the Flames practice rank. That'd be so cool.
Yeah yeah, and that's going to be used for minor hockey.

(28:06):
You know, I think if we look at how cities
use funding, there's been a lot of dumber stuff Calgary
spent money on, like the Blue Ring and things like
that that really bring no value to anybody. You've got
to spend money to make money, and that's what I
look at this as happening.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, hard to argue the number one story. I think
it was the number one hockey story of the year.
I think everyone's and when the tweet report came out
that Thursday, fateful Thursday night, I think everybody's heart went
to their chest and hoping it wasn't true. But unfortunately

(28:42):
we learned Friday morning that August, late August night that
Johnny and Matthew Goodrow passed away and in a very
horrible collision during his sister's wedding, Johnny and Matthew's sister's wedding.
And you know it's I know that Johnny left a

(29:03):
long time ago, but this and you you on your podcast,
the Fireside Podcast, talked about this from a Columbus perspective.
This broke the heart of Calgary. Yeah, and I it's
I this is the to me, this was the story
of the year and sort of the impacts from it.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
I'll just throw on a cheap plug if it's okay, Kevin,
Episode three seventy two of Fireside Chat. You can find
that on our website of fireside chat dot Ca under
episodes in the top navigation. We had Jay Forrester from
the lockedwn Blue Jackets Podcast join us to talk about
this from a Columbus perspective, which I thought was really interesting.
You know, a lot of people had a lot of
negative feelings about Johnny and how he left and that

(29:43):
sort of thing. That's all been forgotten, right, I mean,
this city still rallied around the guy. We realized it's business,
and yeah, we hated to see him go, and we
hated the way it happened. He was doing what was
right for his family. I'll be honest. I was one
of those people that was unhappy with the fact that
it came down to the eleventh hour when he decided
he didn't want to be a anymore. And you know,
it's his right to do that. Did I think it

(30:05):
was the best way to go. No, But he's a
human being, and yeah, we lost a great one. It's
it's been a long time since league has lost an
active playing player of that stature, and I think we're
going to see a lot of changes come because of this. Yeah,
I'm already hearing some arenas that say, don't have beer
and stuff available for the media and the media lounges

(30:25):
anymore because they don't want more drunk driving. Like I
think there's going to wake up a lot of people
in a lot of ways. Yeah, I don't know if
you've noticed it too, but I can't think of any
beer commercial I've seen on an NHL game this season.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
It's been a couple of years since I've seen a
beer commercial. It's been a lot of gambling ads. I
don't want to touch that with the ten foot poll.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
No, but and I wasn't sure of its just this
year or I don't remember last year. But I thought,
I wonder if that hasn't even do with it, you know,
passion of Johnny. I'm glad you brought up Matthew. I
think you know he's the one that gets forgotten in
this a lot, not having really made the NHL, you know,
the NHL name that his brother did. I love seeing

(31:07):
the Gudros in town. I love seeing that they got
to see some of the things that were made with
the tributes to Johnny, like the benches that were made
out of the sticks that were left behind, and the
blankets that were made out of the jerseys. This is
going to be a name that's going to be remembered
in Calgary for a long time. And I think a
guy that in a way is almost gonna actism as
a spiritual mascot in a way for this team.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, yeah, you could argue I think he's certainly. I
think certainly for Columbus it's it boyed them a little bit,
and I think it boyed the Flames a little bit
to start the year.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
But I think the difference with the Flames is there's
not many guys in this roster us who played with
him that are left. No, that's true, but the guys
in Columbus, most of them had played with him.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
But there's still a lot of people within the organization
that were around when Johnny was around, like Craig Conry,
draft to him was big, but behind that so there
was It still had an impact on the Flames organization,
maybe not specifically the Flames players, but the Flames fans,
Flames broadcasters, you know. And I think I mean just

(32:19):
stick tapped to Pat Steinberg and the Flames for the
night on December third when they named Johnny Gudro the
first Star and allowed I got Gee Gudro to come
out and get that slast and innovation because my heart
breaks well for the entire Gudro family, but my heart
has been breaking for him and what he's been going through.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
But with the Mom's trip the Flames recently went on,
I was curious if we were going to see Jane
Goudro on that trip.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
I was kind of wondering if the Flames would invite
her to come, because there's always one or two guys
whose moms can't be there for whatever reason, and I
kind of thought maybe she'd be the quote unquote kind
of adopted mom or just an honorary mothers And I
was kind of surprise see that, and maybe she didn't
want to go. We don't know if she was invited
or not, but I was kind of surprised that we
didn't see her there.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, I never really thought about that, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
If it was the dad's trip, I'm sure Gee would
have been there, and maybe she didn't want the spotlight.
She doesn't seem like someone who likes as much as
Gee does. But I kind of expected that there would
have been some to do about her being on that trip.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
I think Meredith is due pretty quick here too.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
She is yep. Yeah, so, and you know that's kind
of a fun thing to think about too, Kevin, that
you know, eighteen years from now, the Flames could draft
Johnny Gudreau again, we.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Could have a good Drow and an again La in
the lineup at the same time.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
You could well probably not because I mean the again
the boys are what ten fifteen years older than the
because there one just got drafted, so he'd be eighteen.
The other one's two years away, so he'd be about sixteen.
So you might have like the last year of an
again Law and maybe in the rookie year of a Gudrow,

(34:03):
which would have been about the right timeline for last
generation too.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, And I kind of was sort of that sort
of did happen already. It was sort of the end
of beginlet was the beginning of Johnny Gudreau around that time.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Throwing McNeil's grandkid in there, and I don't know if
Theo's got a kid coming up or not. Full circle,
I don't think Kipper's kids playing at all.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah. By the way, before we get into Rory Karn's
good reminder stick tapped to the firefighters in LA and
all of the firefighters that have from Canada that has
jumped into LA and helped out with that situation that
has not been fun at all.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Anyway, you know, and on that too, I want to
give credit to the La Kings. I mean they're playing
on the road while Rome is burning, you know, like
I can't imagine going on the road not being there
with your family, with your friends as all this is happening,
and you know, in Calgary during some of this that
far away. So good for those guys for being able

(35:05):
to keep their heads in this and you know, do
what they need to do while they're on the road.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
I kind of expected in some ways the league might
have shut down their schedule for a week or two
just to figure everything out, just for family and friends
and all that as well.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
I think if there wasn't a Foreign Nations face off
to deal.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
With, they would have, you could be right.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, well let's get into the flames here. We will
start with the debut of Rory Karen's which was a
pretty good one. You cannot argue with having an assist
within twelve seconds of your shift here, Dan, pretty I
think Rory Karrins has discovered quite quickly that the NHL

(35:48):
is an easy league and he should pass Wayne Gretzky
for or in points. Probably, I'm going to guess based
on pace twenty thirty a reasonable expectation. I'm just kidding, obviously.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
About the time the next gudro hits the lineup.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
I mean he's looked good. He's developing well in his
first couple of games. But we've seen a lot of
guys who have played, you know, three four games, looked
fantastic and then didn't look great after that. I remember
David Moss looked fantastic in his first couple of games
and didn't look fantastic after that. I mean, Karen has
played in three games, he has three points of the

(36:30):
flame at this point. Yeah, he looks good. I don't
I still don't know if this guy is in NHL
or not.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
I think he's got some really good instincts. I I
think there was a lot of adrenaline there. I think
what I would say is, I don't know what type
of NHL or he will be. I don't know if
he's going to be a score or a checker. I
still think we need to figure that out. But I

(37:01):
think what he has done, I feel like Jacob Pelcha's
game has stepped up a little bit. He certainly has
development his chemistry with Pelcha, and I think even a
little bit before this, I think Egor Sharon Govic is
slowly starting to get back to last year's Igor Sharon Govic.
I still feel he's too passive for my own likely.

(37:22):
I think that there are times he needs to go
to the net a little bit more. He's too much
of a perimeter player for my liking. But I think
that line has looked pretty good overall. I mean, you know,
they didn't have a great first period against the Saint
Louis Blues on Thursday, and then they kind of played
better as that game went on. I do like, Yeah,

(37:49):
I think overall, I think give Rory Karen's credit a
six round pick. Where he ends up I think is
very It's a fair question. But what I do think
that this comes out for, and one of the things
that I would push back on Flame social media is
I do think the drafted development model that the Flames
are using is actually is proof to be effective. Yeah,

(38:12):
and you look at that Coronado, you look at Jacob Pelcha.
I mean, Walker Doer is not going to be your
example for this, but they have Connor's Area is a
good example of this. Even Dustin Wolf, although I think
Dustin Wolf is a damn good goalie in his own right.
But what they are doing is working.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
M Yeah, I mean, going all the way back to
Johnny gudro right, A lot of people forget he was
a fourth round pick. Yeah, no, it works, and no,
no system is gonna work one hundred percent of the time.
Like you said, maybe walker Doer is not the guy,
but no systm is gonna work a hundred percent of
the time. But even a guy like Andrew Mantapani a
late round draft pick that developed well. I think Doubay

(38:51):
could be in that category two who probably exceeded expectations
for part of his time in Calgary. I think what
the Flames are doing is great, and I think it's
something that hopefully, you know, I think one of the
reasons that Conrory got the GM job was because he
knows this model, and he's been part of this development
model here and he can keep it up. It's one
of the best things Calgary's doing. Yeah, I think Rory

(39:15):
Karen's looking good. Everyone they've called up SAMs, walker Doer
is looking good, I think, and has looked good. I
mean Klapka another model of that we're in that we're
in a rebuild here, and you have to be willing
to give those guys chances and find those gems, especially
for an organization that you know, true living was known

(39:35):
for trading the first, trade in the second. So good
on Calgary for still finding that talent. I'm I'm happy
with Rory Karns. I would like to see him play
some center for this team because I think they need
to figure out what they've got down the middle in
uh the center this week, right, he did, but I'd
like to see a little bit more of it, especially
with I think it's time Dake Rooney out of lineup.
So I think you could put him full time center

(39:57):
there for a couple of games, see what he's got.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah, yeah, I I think that. Yeah, I do agree
that the time for I'm kind of struggling with this
this a little bit, and like I do agree that
Kevin Rooney is struggling. I don't know, like at some
point the Flames are going to have to go outside
the organization to figure this out. Like I I know

(40:23):
they're looking. We'll get into center depth here in a moment,
but the center situation here in a moment, But they
do I do feel at some point they have to
add some sort of outside bottom six.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Depth like yeah, I mean yes, yes, and no. It's
a it's a rebuilding time. So I think in some
ways you've got to try to find that from within.
You know, if they were, if they were a legitimate
playoff team, I'd say probably. But I don't want to
give something up to get some bottom six depth that
won't be here very long. I think you need to

(40:57):
let Karen's or Door or Klapka fill that role if
they can.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Well, here's my pushback to you on this is we
talked about how amateur sports and you know there's all
of these other organizations in Calgary that needs some love.
I think the Calgary Wranglers need a really good Calder
Cup run. And I actually am one of those people
that believe that. To try to keep these players down there, I've.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Been saying that for years. Don't make a call up,
just see the guy of the NHL go watch it.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, I think the Wranglers. I think this Wrangler team
is going really well. I think a Calder Cup run
I think would do some really good things, not only
for the Flames organization. I actually think it would do
something for this city and for the for the city
of Calgary, and I think it would just put some
eyes on the Wranglers where I think it's a little

(41:50):
tough to get eyes on the Wranglers right now for it.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
And I think, yeah, and I think it'll show these
guys how to win, right There's something about learning how
to win a playoff, a playoff, whether it's in the NHL,
the AHL, the EHL. Like I think the more you
can put these guys in playoff scenarios and have learn
how to play that way, the more successful your NHL
team will be down the road.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah, but I still think you've got to balance that.
I mean I think that, you know, because they're doing well,
you have to look at bringing some of those guys up,
even if you're rotating guys in and out of that spot,
I think you need to reward some of that play
and say, Okay, we'll bring up for a couple of games,
We'll bring up for a few days while the Wranglers
are off and try you out or something like that.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, that's sort of why I would have been And
I still think this can happen. Dan, I know you
think this is ridiculous. I think Andre Kuzmenkl on waiver.
Sending him down to the Wranglers. I think could be
a good thing for the Wranglers because this is that
personality that people would come to see. I mean we already,
you've already talked about how beloved he is in Calgary.
I think people would spend I think, I mean the

(42:56):
price for Wrangler tickets probably aren't too bad. You can
go and see Kuzmenko for a couple of games, light
up the light up for the Wranglers.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
I thought it was I thought it was an bad
idea at first. I've come around to it since you
pitched it. I mean, the Flames already paying him. Whether
you pay him to play in the NHL or the AHL,
I don't think it really matters there. I think it'd
be an interesting way to free up a contract spot.
I just wonder what Andre Cuzmenko you're gonna get. Is

(43:26):
he gonna get angry? Is he gonna, you know, be
the same guy if he's down in the AHL. I
don't know enough about his personality.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
The problem with Andre Chuzmenko from the very beginning in
Vancouver was he never got He was signed as a
free agent and he was put into the NHL lineup
without being prepared to actually play in the NHL. And
I believe Dan the more I think about this, ninety
to ninety five percent of the players that are either
drafted or free agent needs DHL time. Need absolutely do.

(43:58):
Like there's the generational talents of there, like your badars,
your celebrities, your Mitch Cops.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
I mean, you've heard me say this about Bennett for years.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, the Flames admitted about Bennett they should have sent
him down.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Right, Yeah. I mean, you know, even some of those
generational talents I think could still benefit. I mean, I'm
even look at Connor Badardho, I don't think it's lighting
up the league as much as a lot of people
thought that he would. I think he could have used
some HL time. But I think as an organization, you
put them on the NHL to sell tickets, and I
think as we're starting to see more HL teams in
the same city as the NHL team, I think you

(44:32):
could still put them in the HL and sell tickets.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah, but that's and that's kind of I think. For
for if I'm advising Kuzmenko, if you want to get
back in NHL next year, light up the AHL learn
this game, and I think you will. I think you
have a chance. I just think, like you look back
at a couple of the games, like I'll look back

(44:54):
at the game against It was a Saturday night game.
They lost. She's a couple of weeks ago. He dropped
his stick, he broke his stick. Yeah, I can't remember
which game was that.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I don't remember, but I know the one you're talking
about was Nashville.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah. And it's just like just those little things that
he's doing that is not putting his team in a
good position. I don't tell challenge, I don't dare excuse
think that he doesn't have talent to score goals. It's
all the other things around that that NHL coaches want,
because it's easier to score goals when you are better

(45:34):
on the boards, or you're better at all those other things.
That's that's kind of where I think that that happened
has to happen.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Now, you said, you know, someone should advise him if
he wants to be in that jail, not share. I'm
not convinced he does. Like I'm I'm thinking he might
realize it's better just go back home to Russia, make
some money in the KHL, Like, I'm not sure he's
fighting to be back in the league next year. I
don't know, but I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Well, then that's an argument to wavecuz Mako anyway, because
you don't need that in the locker room. And if
you want to bring up young people and you want
them to have a standard, you'd rather have more Michael
Backlunds than andre Kruzmanco's.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
I think it will happen at this point that he
probably will get sent down or waived at some point.
I'm not sure they want to do it yet, and
I don't I don't know why. I think this coaching
staff has given him a longer.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Lease than they should.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Yeah, I you know, it looked he could looked good
last year, but we knew what we were acquiring with
this player. I mean, he's inconsistent. He's not an everyday NHLer.
The Flames knew that when they brought it in. Yeah,
that's I mean, that contract.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, totally fair. But I just I think that people
were hoping that you would get a first round pick
for Cruzmenko. I don't think that that was ever even
the Vancouver fans. That was never in the cards.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
No, I mean Calgary took it as a salary dump.
I don't think Vancouver is going to get much for it.
They needed Calgary to take that contract to make the
deal work for Lindholm. I think Calgary is maybe hoping
they get a third out of him if he played well.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, but yeah, that would have been you know, Kevin.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
I think where you'll probably see Kuzmeko send down as
soon as they want to call up one more young
guy and the wranglers say, hey, we're running out of
guys here if you want us to go on a
playoff run. That's why I think you'll probably see him
sent down.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, I mean, but the Flames just need I think
for me, the other thing is is not even just
for the playoff, Like I think I'm not expecting playoffs,
but they just need someone better than Kevin Rooney and
Walker Doer at that bottom four spot they do.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
And again, I think, you know, even even if not better.
I mean, I don't know if you want to talk
about this now or not. I can wait, but I
think just try somebody else like Doors, not cutting and
send him down. Rooney's not gonna send down. Try Clark
Bishop like just try, you know, Dryden hunters looking in
the past, just bringing somebody else to see if they've
got something different.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
I'm surprised they haven't brought called up drying yet.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
He is the coach needmed to like him last year.
I don't know why I am trying him.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Yeah, that to me has been a bit the two
mysterious things that we seem to go on tangents, But
the two mysterious things this year for me on Huska,
I think he's genuinely done a pretty good job. Did
not call up a Dryden Hunt. And I'm really confused
why they took Sharon Goba off the penalty kill this year.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
So okay, let's put those out. Calling up players is
not the head coach job. That's the GM's job.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
The guys in the penalty kill is the coach's job.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yeah, that's fair. Okay, I'll I won't. I won't, But.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
It'd be Conrad and Pascal that are probably sitting down
talking about who to call up.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah, but I mean Huska would have some sort of
saying like okay, why I mean he.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
And for all we know, Haska's saying, give me hunt
and they're not right, we don't know that, but that's
not in his I mean, sure he's consulted, but we
don't you know, he's not the one that ultimately files
the paperwork.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
That's fair, I'll give you that. But the Sharon Govic
thing on penalty kill, especially with how bad the penalty
kill has been this year, I think I think that's
hurt Sharon Govic and the penalty kil.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
To me, so yeah, no, I I agree, And you know,
I don't know what they're trying to do there. I mean,
Sharon Govic also came back quicker than we expected. I'm
still not convinced that he's maybe one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
I don't think he's been one hundred percent all year.
I really know.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
I'm and maybe they've taken him off there to limit
his ice time so he doesn't get further hurt. I
think when the Flame started the season well and I said, wow,
we're doing well, it was kind of, hey, we need
Sharon Govic back on the ice. We need, you know,
to be at one hundred percent. And I don't know
that he was actually ready to come back.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's that. That to me is the most
curious thing that Hauska has done Like I think overall
he's done a good job. But that's my one question.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
I mean, when I look, when I look at the
Wranglers forward roster, here guys that I would try over
Rooney and Uh and Door. I mean, I think Dryden
hunt for sure, he's proved that. I think Clark Bishop,
their captain, should get up there. I even think William
Stromgren might be worth looking at for a game or two.
Martin Firk, A lot of people forget is down there.

(50:13):
That's a that's another one, A veteran guy who you know,
if you just need some veteran help, you could bring
Firk up. I think we know we've gotten Klapka, like
you know, I think those are all options. I wouldn't
bring up Hanzig. I think there's something to be said
about a young player staying down there and having those reps.
Same thing with Morton. It's stills first NHL year. But

(50:34):
I think a lot of people forget that Martin Firk
is a is an old NHL er and is you know,
playing playing well on the Wranglers. But I you know,
if you just need some veteran help, I could even
swapping Klapka for like you need veterans on the in
the HL, so I could even see swapping Klapka for Ferk.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah. And I mean, you know, Martin Firk has that
Michael Stone sort of feel for him that he shoots
the pucket, it goes somewhere tonet. He'd be a good
asset on the power play. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
I mean, and you know, again, I think twenty eight
points thirty four games for the Wranglers year, Like, you know,
that's maybe not saying he's gonna stay here forever and always,
but a guy that Okay, let's let's try him for
a couple of games. See he's better than what we got.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Yeah, yeah, I do think like and as.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
An older guy who's who is a journeyman, also probably
able to easily adapt to a newer roster.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Yeah. I mean. The reason you have Kevin Rooney in
the lineup, I think is for penalty killed. The penalty
killer isn't working. It's tough for me to argue for
Kevin Rooney in the lineup, Like it's a guy that
I've been wanting to cheer for, because I really when
people start ragging on people online, I start defending them.
But I'm having trouble defending Kevin Rooney at this point.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
And you have to remember that when Rooney first came here,
he did not look good and he was sent down
to the Wranglers. I mean, in twenty twenty two to
twenty three, played seventeen games with the Flames, fifty one
for the Wranglers and nine playoff games that year. The
following year he played four for the Wranglers and thirty
three for the Flames. Like, this is a guy who
you know, came here and was an NHL talent for
this team. I think I think he has shown that

(52:13):
maybe he's not quite anch already.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah, I think there's a fear maybe I just was
thinking about this, maybe the Flames fear they would lose
him on waivers.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
But at this point, if you lose him, fine, yeah,
I mean, if somebody wants him and wants to keep
him on their NHL roster all year, great, there will
be another centerment like that available between now and the
end of the year if you want to pick one up.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yeah, but I.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Think Rooney's I think his deals up at the end
of the year anyways.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
Right, Yeah, he's he's done.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah, so do And if you just need a body
I mean there's enough, you know, college hockey's coming to
an end soon, like you can easily pick up a
body for the Ranglers for the rest of the year.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
I mean, it's maybe it wouldn't hurt to give Sam
Morton oluck keep him too.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Right, Yeah, I think I would go with some of
those veteran guys first before you start to disrupt a
rookie because Morton still in his first year pro. We
don't need to try him out yet. But I think,
you know, if you want to try a guy that
Lucas Siona or someone else. But yeah, I mean I
think Firk, I think Dryden Hunt, I think you know,
Clark Bishop, and those are the guys you would probably

(53:19):
take a look at.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Yeah, all right, let's I'm gonna call this portion of
this podcast defending down Vodar, but I'm gonna start by
saying this. I do agree that Dustin Wolf is the future.
I do agree that this is the guy that you're
sort of going to carry the ball with. My issue
has been with and I think this came through for

(53:44):
me clearly on Thursday night against the Saint Louis Blues
and Tuesday night against the Saint Louis Blues. When Blodar
allows a goal, the Flames Internet breaks and when Wolf doesn't,
and we'll likely Dan, let's put the card on the

(54:05):
table here. Dustin and Wolf has been great at home.
He has not been great on the road. And that's
not to be surprised. That's not surprising. He's a rookie
goalie and that's totally fair, and that's part of the
development of Dustin Wolf. But danvil Lenard has gotten the
tougher starts this year. He has played all of the
second of the back to backs. He was scheduled to

(54:26):
play the second of the back to back against the
La Kings, and you know, he has a lot. I'm
not saying he has been great, but he has been
put in a situation where he is allowed. He has
done the job that he needs to do ultimately, which
has allowed Dustin Wolf to succeed, and he has done

(54:49):
the cushion. I think he has done some yeoman work
for the Flames. I think he deserves a ton of credit.
And I just don't understand the villainy of Dan thwarted
Dan Vlodar, like it just feels like Dan Vlodar. Anytime
that you want to play him, they play him. It's this,
we need to be playing Dustin Wolf more. And I'm sorry,

(55:11):
I think that there has to be a limit of
what you're playing Dustin Wolf anyway, and Dan Vlodar is
done exactly the job that the Calgary Flames have asked
him to do. Has he allowed bad goals, yes, but
he goes against Vegas, he was outstanding. Unless you will
literally want him to try to score a goalie goal
unit when the goalie is in the net, you can't

(55:34):
do much more than he did against Vegas. You can't
do much more than he did against Saint Louis on
Tuesday night. He he has carried a heavy burden for
the Flames, and I just think he deserves more credit
than he's getting from a lot of Flames fans.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
I think we see this in any fan base where
there's a hot rookie or young player. Right, Oh my gosh,
you limited, Badard, you limited you know, Matt Day, Mitchkoff
for anybody. You get this, Oh my gosh, they used
to be playing more. They're the savior of our organization.
And a lot of times when I see people say that,
I don't know how educative a person that is who's

(56:10):
having those discussions on Twitter. I mean, yes, everybody wants
see you know, want see dust Wolf, and everyone thinks
in the next coming of make a Kipper soft and
all that, but even make a kippersoft at backups who
had to play like this is I think Kevin in
some ways fans are having their expectations skewed because of
where the Flames are in the standings. I think that

(56:30):
would be a different discussion if the Flames were in
the bottom five. But it's oh my gosh, they're near
the playoffs. Let's play him and you know he'll we
can take He'll take us on his back like Kibber
didn't know four And I think that that's maybe skewing
some fans. But both goalies are good. Like you said,
Dan Vladaar has had some trigger stars, but Dan Vladar
is also the more seasoned NHL goaltender there, so that
doesn't surprise me. I think. I think fans need to

(56:53):
realize they both have a place and the development of
Dan Vladar is going to be a long term project.
It's not okay, you played forty forty games, now you
are a quote unquote an NHL starter.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yeah, do you mean Dustin Wolf is sorry.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Dustin Wolf, Yeah, you know, and I think, you know,
even with Dan Vodar. Sorry, I was saying about him
because I don't know if he's an AHL starter either,
Like I don't know what either guy is. We've seen hotly,
you know, contested prospects who didn't turn out to be
what we thought they were going to be in the
end for goaltenders. We don't know if Dustin Wolf is
going to have that long term or not. But I
think in a year the Flames don't need to be good.

(57:29):
They're managing the starts well. I do think the Flames
need to start giving one guy starter minutes. And we're
starting to see Wolf getting more than every other, which
I think is great. But you know, I don't think
that Dan Vodar deserves the vitriol that some people are
giving him. He's a better than average other guy. Whether
you want to call that a backup or a one
B or whatever you know term you want to use,

(57:52):
He's better than a lot of teams.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Yeah. I just think that I think that you need
three competent goalies at least to be of an effective
NHL organization. There's going to be some learning curves with
Dustin and Wolf. And one of the things that I
would suggested, we're and we're doing this before the Winnipeg game.
I would actually after that Dustin and Wolf start in
Saint Louis, Dan, I would actually go back to Dustin

(58:15):
and Wolf. And here's why. This is an opportunity for
him to rebound from a bad game. And that's part
of learning to be a goal number one goalie in
the league.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
So I totally, I totally agree with you. Yet you
can't shield him. You need to give him the chance
to try to play, to say, Okay, you had a
bad game. What are you going to do next time?

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Yeah. And for those that are saying like, look, we
haven't seen Devin, we will see Devin Cooley play in
the NHL, and I Devin, like, I get it, he's
playing really well in the AHL. We haven't seen him
in the NHL for a while yet, so I'm still
a little stand offish. I'm like, oh, yeah, we got
Devin Cooley and everything will be fine, like we'll live

(58:55):
happily ever after. I'm not I'm not on that plane
yet into I see Devin Koley there, but I will
say this for a lot of those people that want
Dustin Wolf to be the number one goalie. I'm just
going to put it near the Vancouver and what's going
on with Hatcher Demko who had to who missed almost
a year of hockey for an injury, right, you Like,

(59:21):
I mean, I think this whole thing is fascinating because
they're like, oh, we played Markstrom too much and you
got burned out in the playoffs. Like, why are you
wanting to play Wolf fifty or sixty games so furly
in his career? You are already going to start to
burn him out. He's probably going to play in the
World Championships in the in the spring summer when the
Flames are eliminated in the playoffs. He's got a lot

(59:42):
of hockey ahead of him. I don't think we need
to rush Dustin Wolf into anything, right. I think it's especially.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Again fans want to see their savior.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah, and I get it, you pay the money to
go see Dustin Wolf. But I think the Flames are
doing the right thing and just bringing him up slowly.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Yeah, And I think without knowing you know, and you
mentioned Vancouver, which I think is an interesting comparison. Kevin
if Dustin Wolf got hurt, I'd feel much more confident
with Dan Voadaar than I would with Devin Cooley. Yeah,
I think Dan Vodaar has the potential to be a starter.
I don't think Cooley does. That's totally fair right now,

(01:00:24):
and I don't know if you want to have this
discussion or not. We've talked about on fireside chat. Dan
Vadar his contracts at the end of you do you
come back to Calgary, Like, do you want to come
back to be let's be on a second fiddle to
Dustin Wolf? Or do you try to say, there's a
lot of teams right now that need goaltending help. I'm
gonna go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
I think if I should bring him back, do you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Think he wants to come back? Do you overpay him
to come back?

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
What's an overpay for for Vladar?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Well, that's the thing. So next year, Wolfe's Contract's going
to be up. So I think you know, if I'm
Wolf's age and I'm asking for at least a million
more than whatever you're paying Valnar, so you're gonna set
your market for Wolf. I watch to play Thenar. I
don't think I don't think you can go higher than
three for Vernar.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Well Blackwood got five point two for his extension. I
don't see wolf in the five point two. I think
probably four. I think with just looking here, I think
Kevin lanking In off the top of my head is
going to command three to five in the open market.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Was also twenty eight. I think I think you could
get a lot more for a younger guy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
If I was Flidar, I would try what I would
try a short term one to two year deal with
the Flames and see if you can wait and see
what this market shapes out, because you also got an
increasing cap coming up as well, so you could make
more money. I find the Flames, I would I.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Think it goes either way. You could make more money
or somebody could emerge and take a starter spot that
you might have been able to get paid for.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah, I mean, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
I mean, like I think LA needs goaltending. I think
there's a few teams that need goaltending and may not
a year from now, and I don't know if it's
like okay, I I think it would be totally fair
for VDAR and to say let me go to July first,
let me see what offers I get and if I
don't get a big starter deal, I'll come back and
I and if I was Connor, I'd totally be comfortable

(01:02:28):
with that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Yeah, I think you owe it to him in a
way that's fair. I think he can't. He can't do
the Oliver Shillington and in gamble. I think he needs
to be smart about this. I think Shillington overplayed his hand.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Oh, I agree, but I but I think Wolf has
or sorry, I think Ladar has a bigger body of
work than Shillingdon does as a successful pro.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Yeah. And like I said, if I.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Was if I was with ours agent, I'd say, let's
see what we can get.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
The other thing that Valodar's argument is, though too, as
I think about this, is how many teams have not
had an injured goalie this year? Do you Skinner has
been fine? That? I mean, I think I just think
of that most teams have had an injured goalie this year.
I think can only think of like half at least

(01:03:18):
half the league has had an injured goalie at some
point this year. So Vladar's argument is is you know,
I am not. I have not been injured well and
I recovered from a hip surgery that people A lot
of people forget that, right. He recovered from hip surgery,
came back a lot, A lot of people gave him
credit for or expected right. So I don't know, I

(01:03:39):
see your point. I find the Flames, I would try
to I would try to keep them. But if i'm
vod are, I actually do think I have a case
for an open market being a dependable at least backup.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I want the Flames
to move them, but I totally, as a Flames fan,
would not fault him if he says, hey, I can
go over here, get paid and be a quote unquote starter.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Yeah. Yeah, again, I think I think that the thing,
the depth piece of this organize, the depth of the
goaltending position, is becoming more and more important. I'm of
the belief that you should drop a goalie every year
if you can, because some of them will work out
and some of them will not, and you just continue

(01:04:24):
to have that pipeline.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
So yeah, I mean, I would not even be surprised
if Edmonton wanted some help behind Stewart Skinner and might
even be able to make, you know, make a free
agent offer to Ludar.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Yeah, well they made a free Yeah, I wouldn't be
wouldn't be surprised by that either. I mean I could
even see I could see a case if Lankan and
leaves Vancouver that Vancouver has a look at at blood
Ar two.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
I think LA is a great example of a team
that has good players but questionable goaltending. I don't know
the Koomper and Riddick or the pair you want. I
don't know that Joey Accord is a you know, is
better than Valdaar. Like, there's a lot of guys that
I look around this league, Connor Ingram, you know, Peter Morazak, like,
I think there's a lot of teams that Ladar came

(01:05:10):
open at a reasonable price and a short term. I'd
probably jump on him, and I think it would be
totally reasonable for him say, you know what, we'd love
to have you back. We understand situations have changed. It's
not okay, Marshwam's gone. You're the heir apparent. See what
you can get. If you can't, we'd love to have
you back. Here's our number.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's totally fair. I think a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Yeah, Eric Comery has been confirmed to play against the
Flames to night. I think he's better than Eric Comery.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Who's starting for Calgary unconfirmed. Still, oh hell about needs
a break too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
I mean he's yeah, so now on that, could you see,
Like I think if if Dan Vodar isn't gonna come back,
or if you're gonna let him test the free agent market,
I think he's the biggest piece the Flames could afford
to do something with at the deadline. What do you
think the likelhood is that he's not a Flame after
the deadline.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Depends where the Flames are, Like they're there. Let's yeah,
I think he's pro, but it's not going to be
a significant asset though, Like this is not going to
be like this will be a mid round pick at best.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
I think it depends. I think if there's another team
that has a goalie hurt between now and then in
a playoff scenario, I think you could see like a
twenty ninth pick team willing to give you a second.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Oh I don't see that, Dan, I'm sorry. I think
the highest would be even a third.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
I think a team that has no like I think
Edmonton for example. I'm not saying Edmonton Calgary trade. But
if I'm Edmonton and I think I can go deep,
I'd want more depth than Skinner. Yeah, I think I
think it could end up being conditional where it's like
a second if we go deep a third otherwise. But

(01:06:59):
you know, we talked about Rory Karen's a sixth round pick.
The Flames can do a lot with even a third.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
That's true, Like, I mean, I'm not saying I'm not
saying that it's a bad thing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
That they give that you're not going to get a
huge asset out of it. I also think you talked
about one on the bottom six forward. I think that
lark and net you a bottom six forward maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
Yeah, I mean he's got The problem is is he's
got an eight to eighty times save percentage, which is
not a great safe percentage. But save percentage is down,
believe it is. You know, I think the Villadari is
the most likely vari and or Kuzmenker are the most
likely flame pieces to be moved in before the trade deadline.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
And again, Vladar is having success, Cuzmenko is not. Who's
going to give claims anything for Kuzmenko.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Yeah, you'll get a seventh Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
I mean, we're talking about waving him. Why would you
give a son when you could just get him for free? Essentially, Yeah,
and nobody wants to take on a you know that
five million dollars. Nobody's got five million. If you do,
you're gonna use it smarter. Yeah, I think Valdaar is
really and I'm not saying they should do it, but
I think Vadar is the best trade piece you have
outside of Anderson. If you think they're gonna go that way.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Well, the other trade piece that I could see and
you will. I don't think you get anything for him.
But Tyson Barry is still in the Flames organization.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
I don't think he's a lot of people forgot he's
actually a Flame this year.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
Like he hasn't played in such a long time. It's
just like, but I think that's also what Here's I'm
gonna throw a name at you that I wonder about
now that I think about this, I have never been
I don't think the Flames were overly convinced about Daniel
mehra Manoff even in training camp, and I think that
was part of the reason why they have eight defensemen.

(01:08:47):
I wonder if he's a guy that is. I wonder
if this is a guy that I could see moved
at the deadline.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
But again, who who wants meor Manoff? I don't know,
but I think I think if I'm a playoff team
looking for, you know, defensive help, I think I could
find better than mere Manoff.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
You probably could. But if you're a young, up and
coming team, you might want to take a chance at him.
That could be a hockey deal right where you trade
a project for a project.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
The Flames have two years in that deal, one point
two five this year, next year. I don't know anyone
that would want to take that on with one more
year attached to it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Could you see year? Could you next year?

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Down to the wranglers? No, I think mere Manoff is
fine as a six to seven guy. I think you
just keep him here. I could see maybe next year
the deadline. I mean remember Trios used to move a
pick for some you know, six seven defensemen just have depth.
I guess he's doing that next year. I don't know
if i'd want to take him on with another year
on his deal. Yeah, and again, as a rebuilding team,

(01:09:52):
they don't need a great blue line now. Tyson Barriam's
looking at played nine games for the Flames. I think
that's exactly what they want. Tyson Barry was the in
case of emergency break glass and put him on the ice.
Move in fact, he's not playing, I think says a
lot about the development of the other guys.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Yeah, Joel Hanley has been a really good piece, and
that's a guy that I call to I break Yeah, Yeah,
I'm a big fan of breadhim. Yeah, Paul what Bean
you're looking there? Jake Bean has two It's a two
year deal for Jake Bean, right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Yeah, yeah, one point seventy five this year, next year.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
I actually have liked Jake Bean for what he is.
I think he's done. I think I think he's done
exactly what he's needed to do. I do wonder if
Joel Henley is an option for a trade piece.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Though, that's I think if you're going to move a
defenseman for the Flames, Hanley is the one that makes
the most sense. He's thirty three. I could see he's
got seven seven hundred thousand, like anybody can swallow that.
If I'm a team and I just need a quick,
you know, defensive boost to my team, or even a
number seven going on the playoffs, I'd take him, yeah,

(01:10:57):
and sorry. Going back to mere MANO if I can.
I think that mere Man of last year when he
came in, the Flames needed blue line bodies, and I
think he was put in the top four because they
needed a guy. I don't think he is a top four.
I think he's a great six. I think he's an
okay five. I think he's a fantastic seven. Like I
don't know. Sure. If somebody offers me a fourth or

(01:11:18):
a third for him, I take him. But at this point, sure,
if you want some them down to the wrangler, somebody
earns his spot, great, I don't think the one's earned
his spot yet. But next year I think you want
him there to push some of those young guys. I mean,
if I were talking to if I were talking to Poorier,
I'd say take a spot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Yeah, right, Well Conroy's first thing was like take a jersey.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
So yeah, and at one point twenty five, I see
no issue with keeping mer Man off as a seven
if you need to, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
I think the one thing that I do think is
convinced me though about what I think for Mackenzie leaguer,
he needs to be on the right side more than
the left. So whatever his defensive partner is needs to
be a left side to defenseman. We are is not
as effective on the left side as he is on
the right. He clearly looks a lot more comfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
And ball is a left shot.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Ball's a right shot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Ball?

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Sorry, yeah, Kevin, Ball's a left shot. Yeah. And then
you got Jake Bean Yeah, I mean yeah again.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
I mean the Flames have some time to figure this out, right.
This is not Is this a blue line that takes
you deep?

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Is it a bull line has to take you deep?

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
No, doesn't have to. Speaking of blue line, let's have
a discussion about Rasmus Anderson, which his name has come
up this week. He did an interview with Eric Francis
and basically said, and I quote, I hate the Oilers,
I hate the Canucks. I understand it's a business, it

(01:12:47):
really sounds like Rasmus. I think the idea from even
from Elliott Freeman, who was in Canmore for thirty two thoughts,
is that the idea is that the they're not going
to trade Rasmus Anderson this year. They're going to try
to offer him extension in July first when they can
and see if that can work out. Now the debate
has raged on on Flames X on Rasmus Anderson. I'm

(01:13:12):
just going to tell you where I'm at, Dan, and
you can kind of see it from my perspective. I
think the Flames need to extend Rasmus Anderson. I know
that there's a lot of people I'll address this thirty
year old argument in a minute, but I look at
what Rasmus Anderson is. He's got some snarl and bite.

(01:13:35):
He is not a player that a lot of teams
like to play against me, and that's a hard thing
to find in this league. Right now. I know his
offense is dried up a little bit, which is I
don't think that's that surprising because I think his offensive
numbers were above projection.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
At Yeah, I've never projected to be that as good
as an offensive defenseman as he's been.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
Yeah. No, and but he's fifth in block shots, so
you can take that for what it's worth. He's starting
to develop a little bit of that Christanev attitude. I
think Chris Tannev rubbed off on him in a very
good way. I think you've got a pair of Anderson
and Ball that, as you're growing, can lead yourself into

(01:14:19):
some sort of success going forward. And I saw I
had a conversation with someone on Twitter, and I'm gonna
bring this up here as part of the argument Dan,
and this is going to be controversial. I am not
sold on zay Perek. I think there are some legitimate

(01:14:40):
concerns about zay Perek that will need to be addressed.
And even if you are sold on Perek, Brascaevitch and
Muse and you think that they are the future of
the Flames blue line, you may be right, but they're
not coming up at the same time. So you need
a guy with a veteran experience to at least bring

(01:15:00):
this team forward. And you will need that anyway because Prep,
Riscaevich and Muse are not going to be at their
peak and probably their mid twenties, which is four to
five years for now so to me. And also I
think the Flames need to start like after all of
this situation where you lose Lindholm tan of Hanavan, you

(01:15:21):
need to start finding players that want to sign and
stay within your organization. And Rasmus Anderson is not going
to be your franchise defenseman going forward, but he's a
part of the guts of what your identity is going
to be going forward, and I to me, I think
you need to sign that. I think, especially in a
small market Canadian team, I think you need to establish

(01:15:43):
that this is a place that players want to play.
I think the Flames need to sign Rasmus.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Anderson age I think you said, I mean, if so,
I think they need to sign him, if he wants
to sign here, and if it's going to be reasonable.
I don't want to overpay this guy long term if
you can get him for and even the number I'm
gonna give you is higher than I would normally go.
But the Flames have a ton of cap space, and
if the cap goes up next year, you're gonna need

(01:16:09):
to meet the floor. I would give him wager money.
I'd go up to seven for him. Wigers getting six
point twenty five, I'd go seven million for three years. Sure,
Anderson's gonna be thirty. You need veterans. You can't have
a team of all young guys on you know, a
rebuilding team. Somebody needs to be the leader. I think
you know Wigers thirty one. I'd argue he's playing his

(01:16:29):
best hockey of his career right now. So just because
you're over thirty doesn't mean you're useless. I totally agree.
If Anderson wants to be here, you keep Anderson here.
I don't know how much longer we have Michael Backland
as as an NHL or as a Flame even I
think you keep Anderson here, you give him the sea.
When Backland's out of town, he becomes your grizzled veteran.

(01:16:49):
He becomes your long service guy. He's the guy who says, yeah,
I want to be here. And even though we're going
through some challenges, I opted to stay here. I opted
to be here. I see no reason you need to
make that trade. The Flames have enough assets. It's not
like they need to move him to get assets.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
Yeah, and yeah, and I just like the thirty year
old argument is is I'm not. I hate that argument, man,
because I feel like like when someone's turns thirty, it
feels like apparently they lose a limb of some kind
and play hockey anymore, which that's clearly not the case.
We I mean, you talked about McKenzie Leeger, I mean

(01:17:28):
help Mike Mark Jordano got a Norris when he was
over thirty. Michael Backland is over thirty. And just I'm
going to bring a thought up at you about backland
in a second, but that just popped into my head.
But I think, like just that argument is not washing
for me, because you need like you can still be

(01:17:49):
a good player when you're over thirty. And we'll get
into something a little bit more than a lot of
flame fans want. Were for a contract. But that, by
the way, the guy is going to turn thirty during
this contract, so we'll bring that up in a second.
But I just I really hate that argument about he's
turning in thirty so we don't need him anymore. I
think that that is just an I think it's a

(01:18:09):
week it's a weak argument. It is a flat out
week argument.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Right now, I understand what fans are trying to get at. Yes,
players generally lose a step when they get to thirty.
Does that mean they're useless? No, So if Anderson's gone,
my question is who takes that spot. I mean, you
mentioned some of the young names Perrek Stavich. I'd put
Porrier in there. You know some young guys are coming up.

(01:18:34):
You want those guys to play with veterans. I think
part of the reason Anderson learned the game so well
is he played with Geo. You know, I think Brody
looked better playing with Geo than he has since. Like
you know, so even if yes, okay, Anderson lose the
step when he's thirty, that's okay. You know, Viigas starts
to going on, that's okay. But I would love to
see for stavisch and Awiger, for Stavidge and Anderson, or

(01:18:56):
you know, Perrek and Uga and Parek and Erson. I
want those young guys to have Anderson and Wiger as
their partners, to learn how this league works. And I
think of the Flames. If Anderson says to Conrad, I
don't want to be here, then sure I want to
move them. You know, I think we've learned from some
of the names you mentioned at the top of the show.
If you don't want to be here, we'll find another

(01:19:16):
home for you. But if he comes in to Conrad
and says, I want to stay, give the nice man
a reasonable contract and let's get this done.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Yeah, I mean, Quinn Hughes learn from Chris Hanna, Lane
Helts is playing with a veteran defenseman. Evan Bouchard is
playing with Matias eck Holme. I think you do need
that veteran leadership. Even Jake Sanders is playing with a
vet like you look at some of these young defenseman.
They need a veteran piece around them, like you know.

(01:19:47):
I yeah, the too old argument for me is not
an argument I'm going to put up with anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
So Kevin, let me if the flames in a playoff position,
I might feel differently. But what do you think the
earliest what do you think the earliest of flames? Kind of,
let's say come out of this rebuilding as I think
it's twenty seven to twenty eight.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that's well, there's gonna be
some pri I'm sort of on the twenty eight twenty
nine train.

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
Okay, So let's go with twenty eight twenty nine. So
Weiger is signed through twenty eight, twenty seven to twenty eight.
If you sign Anderson through twenty eight twenty nine, you're
not gonna need a ton of money before then. All
those guys even then on a three year ELC are
gonna get you to twenty seven twenty eight or twenty
eight twenty nine, depend on who it is. So okay,
let's sign Anderson. Let's chew up some caproom because we

(01:20:41):
need to Let's bring him in, Let's get him here
till twenty twenty seven or twenty twenty eight, and then
you know what, if he does bottom out, we let
him walk. Yeah right, and you know what if before
then we need that money, buy him out, send him down,
trade him for future considerations. Like you know, but I
I see no downside to bringing Anderson in. And yes,

(01:21:04):
you can get a lot for him, but you're gonna
lose out at the same time, you know, like sure,
maybe they get a centerman, but then they're still without
a defenseman. Like I think you're just shuffling deck chairs
in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Yeah, I yeah, yeah, and it's it's not helping you,
Like you need to kind of keep that that consistency,
especially on the blue line.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
The one thing I think might be good for Anderson
is Craig Conroy is part of the Old Guard, and
so is Anderson. I think that Conroy might have some
emotional attachment to Anderson and might be more likely to
keep him around than a new GM or a guy
him outside the organization. Let's say Dave Nonis was the GM.

Speaker 1 (01:21:48):
I think people I think this flames organization recognizes the
impact that Rasmus Anderson has had.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
I don't say they don't, but if someone else got
a good deal, they might be more willing to take it.
Then Conrad who says, you know what, this guy says
he wants stay, I'm okay with that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Yeah. Maybe, I don't know. I don't know. If there's
a lot of gms that would I think there would be.
I don't know if a lot of gms would trade
Erasmus Anderson.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
I think depending on where they are in their career.
And I think Anderson would get you more because of
his deal, Like I think the big thing for the
Flames because of the money he's making. I think if
the right deal came and you're a rebuild, I think
a lot of teams would take it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Maybe. Yeah, I don't know, you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
Know, I mean the other thing, the other thing, if
you move Anderson. Let's be honest, Anderson's probably the biggest
name on this team right now. So outside of Wolf,
then who are people buying tickets to see?

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
That's exactly it. Yeah, Like from a business perspective, this
is tough.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
I mean, and you got to remember being a Calgary
Flame and a Vancouver Canock get especially in the Canadian markets.
The job entails more than just putting on a pair
of skates eighty two times, right, there's a lot of
things that these guys are doing in the community and
that sort of thing. And Anderson just like when Gudro left,
there was a lot of stuff in the community that
didn't get filled that he did, and same thing. When
Backland retires, I think there's gonna be a huge hole there.

(01:23:18):
Like I think Anderson is needed right now to be
that leader in that face.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
Yeah, speaking of Backland, and then before we go down
to the center part of our conversation, do you think
that there is if the Flames fade out or here
before the trade deadline, do you think what are the
percentage chances that the Flames go to Michael Backlan and say, look,

(01:23:45):
you deserve to win a Stanley Cup, Let's trade you
to a contender.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
I don't think the Flames say that to him. I
think he would be having that discussion with the Flames.
He's got this year. Next year. I think if you
if the Flames are gonna say it to him, it
be next year.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
The deadline.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Yeah, again, four point nine or four point five million
is a tough, tough number for a lot of teams
to swallow. Right now, the Flames aren't gonna want to
eat that for two years. I think if Backlham came
to the Flames said guys that want out, I think
they'd accommodate it. But I don't think the Flames would
look at that until next year.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
Fair.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
I mean again, what team? What team? If you're trading Backland,
you're probably not getting a roster The Flames probably wouldn't
get a roster player. What team would want to take
on four or five this year and next year for Backland?
And I don't think the Flames want to eat that
for two years.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
I I'll tell you a team that could use him
is Vancouver.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
Sure, but what's Vancouver willing to give up?

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
That's a good question, maybe all right?

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
I mean I think I think that becomes the question.
We hear this a lot on our show from fans
trade this guy for to this team? Well, what do
you want back? Right? We're not giving a gift to
the Vancouver Canucks.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Yeah, it's not a Yeah, it's not a present like
we need something back.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
But and honestly, Kevin, be honest. Unless Backland says I
want to go try to win a cup. I think
he plays at this contract and he retires a flame.

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
I think that's possible too, because I could see him.
I could see him staying within the organization in some
sort of capacity, like I could see him being part
of the UH. They'll give him an assistant GM role.
It'll be kind of like a Conroy again, like Backland
with known as sort of overseeing it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
Yeah, or maybe gets a job in the ring. I mean,
I don't know. I don't know how long Pascal wants
to be here. I could even see him being a
GM for the Wranglers or something like that. But you know,
if he wants to go back to Sweden.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Maybe Pascal's going to get an NHL job at some.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Points, what I mean, so I think then, you know,
maybe Backlan takes that role or something like that. But
if he wants to go back to Sweden, maybe he
becomes a Swedish scout. Even if they trade him away
to I mean, Jerome got trade away to go win
a Cup and we still love him, right, so even
if they were to trade backhand next year the deadline,
I could see him come back to Calgary after that,
you know, Giordano kind of same thing. A little bit

(01:26:03):
different with the expansion draft, but same same kind of
idea if he was going to join the organization, Like
I would not be surprised that to see Michael Beck
and hang him up as a flame.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
Fair.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
But if that gets done, I think that it gets
done next year.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
Yeah, all right, let's go to the centers, because the
one of the things that was mentioned as the thirty
two thoughts was the Flames are in the market, and
then Conray has fully admitted this. They're in the market
for a right shot center and they want someone within
the age range of twenty three to twenty six, you know,
and they want, you know, someone long term. But they

(01:26:41):
are apparently exploring the rental market if they stay in
this playoff chase or not. So. And I think I
think intellectually they knew, I mean, they know they need
someone more than what Kevin Rudy provides. So I think
they know that. But a few names that come up
on the list of considering, and I'm going to toss

(01:27:01):
the first one out here and I'm going to give
you the opportunity to discuss this. Then one name that is,
of course with all of the noise coming out out
of Vancouver with the Miller Peterson controversy, talk that one
or both will be moved, and the flame There are

(01:27:23):
flames Twitter that are all over the idea of Elias Petterson.
Let me go through the stats of Elias Petterson before
I ask you where you're at with him, and just
give me a couple of seconds here, because I do
think that this is an important conversation because we the
theory is that this is a guy that is a
number one center in the National Hockey League. This is
what he is being paid eleven point six and after

(01:27:45):
this year, this is a no move cause.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
So you are thirty eight games this year, ten goals,
nineteen assists for twenty nine points. Last year he did
better than point a game. Year before that, they did
better than point a game.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
Uh okay, just before you've done the stats, I'm just
gonna point this out, JT.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Miller, and I know you're going to find him. I
just thought I had him up. I'll read him out.

Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
Okay, that's right. JT. Miller and Elias Petterson have scored
in a game for the Vancouver Canucks once this year.
We are over half of the season. I'm kind of
giving you where I'm at. I just want to hear
where you're at with this.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
So my first question would be, what's it gonna What
would the Flames have to give up?

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
Well, I think a lot of people are wanting are
suggesting a first round pick, a Connor Zerry, a Samuel
Hanzak kind of package.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
My next question, you probably know this better than I do.
Is this the first year that Peterson's been known to
be hard to work with or has this been something
this dogged him his whole career?

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Well, I think his captain I think part of the
captaincy is shoe with the Canucks was in part with
his Pederson's relationship with the media. He has always been
a little bit short. JT. Miller and Pederson have had
issues for a couple of years, at least reportedly last year,

(01:29:19):
before Peterson signed that contract, there was a report that
there was a deal on the table with the Carolina
Hurricanes that they were going to move him, And now
there's discussion that there's trades. Now. He has not been
close to effective for a year. He has not been
the same pd that he was at the beginning, and

(01:29:41):
nobody knows why. And I think that some Flame fans
are assuming if you get them out of Vancouver, you
put him in a situation in Calgary, he is going
to be a number one center and everything we will
live happily ever after.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
But he's the number one center, but he's causing dress
room issues. I don't want them right now. The Flames
need to build culture, and that's.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
It's too much money at this point for him. And
this is what this is why I'm a little confused
with some people because they're not willing to pay ratsmus
Anderson because he's going to turn thirty, But you're willing
to pay Elias Petterson, who will also turn thirty and
will be over eleven million dollars when he turns thirty.

(01:30:23):
And that's what's confusing me about that entire argument.

Speaker 2 (01:30:28):
So here's my thoughts is, again, if he's the Flames
worked hard last year to move out guys that didn't
want to be here. If Peterson were to go to
his GM and say Calgary's the place I want to be,
I would love to go to Calgary. There's nowhere I'd
rather be. Sure find a way to bring him in,
But I don't think that's going to be the case.
The Vancouver's just trying to move damaged goods. I don't

(01:30:48):
think Calgary is the organization that wants damaged goods now. Secondly,
you put them on the first line. A center's only
as good as the guys around him. Is Marty Pop
still going to give hm a hundred points a year?

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Sure, he becomes a number one center, but I don't
really think it helps the Flames all that much right now.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
Yeah, And I the may mean part of the argument
last year was Petterson's wingers were not helping him and
they needed to find a winger for PD in the
off season. So you're gonna have already faced that argument
with Peterson here. Yeah, I'm I'm not on that. I
don't think that this is a wise move for the Flames,
and I don't think you should be giving up a
connors zerre right now. I think that that is a

(01:31:27):
guy that can be a future captain of the team.
I think again, is he a fan Connor Zerry, a
franchise guy? No, but he is a guy that you
can put in your core, and I think has I
think I would not be surprised if he's considered for
Team Canada's Olympic team in a couple of years. I

(01:31:48):
think he's that good of a player, And Samuel Honzik,
I think not a guy I would be giving up
on yet. And I don't think the Flames really should
be giving up on a giving a first round pick necessarily.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
If the Flames were a legitimate playoff team, not a
team that has played well and sort of lucked into
a spot, a legitimate playoff team missing number one center,
i'd feel differently or right now the Flames are rebuilding,
I see no reason to bring this guy in, especially
when there's a bunch of issues around him. And let's
say I see no reason to bring him in a
market value. I think it's the point that the Canucks

(01:32:21):
need to liquidate this guy quickly, and you can give
them I don't know, Clark Bishop and Sam Morton for him,
and will consider you twice in the future and once
on Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
Sure, then future and current consideration.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
And also I dreamt about you three days ago, so
let's throw past consideration in there too. That's right, Like,
you know, if Vancouver needs to liquidate this contract quickly
and is willing to take less than market value, and
you know, maybe, but yeah, I do not give up
young assets to bring him in because I don't think

(01:32:58):
it changes a bunch of the flames. In some ways.
I think it sets it back. Now, I will say, Kevin,
if if this players moved, I wouldn't be surprised if
Calgary is somehow involved in that move. Eleven million in
the current angels a lot of money to move, and
I could see Calgary getting involved to eat half of
that over long term, but it would cost you something.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
Yes, I could see them being a broker for the
Peterson deal. I think that would be a really smart move.
But I don't think no.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
I mean, and you can't from the way I understand
the rules. You can't broker and only acquire part of
the contract. You have to acquire it for the rest
of the contract. They couldn't just broke them for two years.
So if you want me to take on five million
for four years, it's gonna cost you.

Speaker 1 (01:33:43):
It's eight years though, Dan, That's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
See, and that's different too, because then Calgary don't think
needs that five million next three years. In eight years,
they might, so you better pay me something to get
to have me take that on. Yeah, right, I mean
unless Patterson is coming to Conroy or his agent's coming
to Conroy, saying there's nowhere in the league we would

(01:34:08):
rather play than Calgary. I think it's a dumb move.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Yeah, I agree, I agree, and I know that people
are going to argue what about Jack Eikeel. Jack Eichel
was not coming to Calary. It was not gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
At the same time, it's kind of funny because the
pieces Calgary didn't want to give up have turned out
to be nothing. Yeah, one of the game changes there
from what I understood is VALLAMACKI.

Speaker 1 (01:34:39):
But yeah, but he was he really coming to Calgary.
He wasn't we I remember us doing a podcast on
this saying Jack Eichel was not coming to Calgary.

Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
I agree, I don't think he was coming. But you know,
and again Jack Eichel scenario different in my mind too,
that Jack Eyico was coming off very with surgery. We
didn't know what he was gonna be and I didn't
want to sign him long term without seeing them on
the ice.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
Yeah, totally fair.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
You know, do I think the Flames maybe need a center? Sure?
Do they need a center today?

Speaker 1 (01:35:09):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
Do they need a center by the deadline? I don't
think so. I would not go out and sell assets
to get that center. If a guy comes up on waivers, sure,
if you can get a guy for a seventh sure,
but this is not the year I think the Flames
sell a pick.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
Yeah. I mean I there's a couple of names that,
for me, I would consider. I would consider Martin Nique
Hass but in the Carolina but I think that that's
an off season move, and maybe Vincent Trocheck. If you're
looking at the Rangers as a potential place, I think if.

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
The Flames are going to get a center from somebody
this year, it's going to be a cap dump.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:48):
Yeah, which again for where these guys are. Sure, they're
in the playoff picture, and that's neat and that's fun.
This is still a rebuilding team. If you're going to
take on a player as a cap dump, that's exactly
what they should be doing right now. And we didn't
see Conroy really weaponize that captum blasher the deadline. I
think he doesn't do it this year. I'm gonna havek
some questions because that's a tool he needs to utilize.

Speaker 1 (01:36:11):
Yeah, that's where I think the Flames will be active
at the trade.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
I mean, he did a little bit, like we sort
of absorbed part of the Hannifin deal and stuff like that.
But I would if Conroy is not making significant moves too,
because there's no upper roster limit after the deadline. Even
if you bringing a bunch of guys you have no
intent of playing. If they're not, you know, eating money
to get picks and bodies, I'm gonna be disappointed.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
Yeah, I do think the weaponizing idea, I'm with you,
like that's where they need to to go on that.
The one other thing I want to talk about here
is I guess let's talk about that playoff race that
is including right now in the standings Vancouver, Calgary, Uh,

(01:36:59):
Saint Louis in Utah, and you know they're kind of
all in that. See Adam's kind of in it. But
I think Sea Adam's kind of fading out. I think
we do agree that Calgary will be fading out of
this here at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:37:14):
You've been saying on our show since the end of
the year, this is neat, this is fun. When do
they bought them out? When do they regress to the mean?
I think, and I'll be honest, after these Saint Louis Games.
I think it's coming.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
Yeah, I think so too. I think I just don't
think that they are in the They're not in the Vancouver. Although,
to be fair, they've beaten Vancouver twice this year, so
you know, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:37:43):
But I mean there's times the Flames will open their season.
What was the last year they beat Colorado the champions
and like, you know, just could you beat a good
team doesn't mean you're a good team.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
No. So the four that are currently kind of in
this wild card run is Calgary at forty nine, Vancouver
forty eight, Saint Louis forty eight, Utah forty three, Anaheim's
at forty two. We don't think that we look at
them as a playoff team. On see out forty one,
I don't look at them as a playoff team. The
thing that this is sort of here's the precursor of this.

(01:38:14):
I think that there's one wild card spot left. I
think Colorado and or Dallas is going to get the
other one and then so really at this point, although
you're six to seven points behind the Kings, I think
the top three in the Pacific are said. I think
it's the Knights, Oilers and Kings in whatever way that
you want to pick that. So that leaves one playoff spot.

(01:38:34):
And I'm going to tell you I know that this
will not be popular with the canuckside. Did I think
that that's the same. I think the Saint Louis Blues
are going to be the ones that get it. I'm
just they seem to be responding to Jim Montgomery in
a more positive way. I like that blue line. I
really like that. The fact that they were able to
get Dylan Holloway out of Edmonton is a good thing.

(01:38:57):
I'm still and Robert Thomas is a legitate that probably
was a miss for Team Canada. I am a little
bit concerned about their goaltending. I'm not entirely a Jordan
Bennington fan, but it only needs to be better. It
needs to be good enough. I see them getting that
final wildcard spot. I I don't know where you're at.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
I'm just looking at at a few things here. I
think you're right. The goaltending is questionable there.

Speaker 1 (01:39:29):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:39:30):
I think Bennington is good enough. I'm not sure about
Joel Hoffer again. Maybe a team that might explore, uh,
you know, bringing a Dan Vladarian who knows, but going
into the season, I had said I thought that both
wildcards in the Pacific would go to the Central Division.
I thought that was because I thought it would probably
be like I thought Nashville be a lot more competitive

(01:39:50):
than they are, and I was kind of expected to
be Winnipeg, Minnesota, Dallas, Colorado, Nashville, and Nashville's fallen off.
I don't think Calgary or Vancouz gets that wild card spot.
I think Colorado definitely is a lock. It's gonna be
Colorado or Dallas. I think those guys are gonna wrestle
for three for a while. I think Saint Louis is
a very viable option. I don't know that Utah's got

(01:40:12):
the horses to do it this year, but I think
you're right. I think Calgary is on the way down.
I think it'll be Saint Louis, or if Vancouver gonna
sort out these issues quickly, they might sneak in.

Speaker 1 (01:40:27):
I mean, you got Clint Hughes in Vancouver. That's in
our legitimate argument. I mean it just for me right now,
to concern in Vancouver is what I don't like. There's
just so much stuff going on that's not allowing this
team to be consistent. If it can be consistent, I.

Speaker 2 (01:40:44):
Think if they can move one of those two forwards
by the four Nations face off, they might be able
to get their crap together enough to just hold that spot. Maybe,
but honestly, I think it'll be Saint Louis as much
I wanted to be Calgary. I if Calgary's gonna do it,

(01:41:05):
this is the year to do it because of the
conditions on the first If you're gonna give up your
first you might as well be in a playoff spot
to give it up, right Like, because of the conditions
on that first round pick, this year, this is the
year for Calgary to do it. So I think Saint
Louis the most likely, but I think Calgary or Vancouver,
if not even goes perfect for Saint Louis, one of

(01:41:26):
those two teams gonna sneak in. Yeah, but I think
we'll be out in one like any of those three
teams I think is out first round.

Speaker 1 (01:41:33):
No agreed, I would agree with that, but I mean, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
And you mentioned you mentioned Jim Montgomery. Every time I
hear his name, I think of that old Do you
remember that meme flea market Montgomery and that guy who
danced around his flea market. All right, that's your homework.
Look at the Flea Mark and Montgomery game after the show,
and I keep thinking of like coach Montgomery dancing to me,
like it's just like it's just like a hockey game. Hey, anyway,

(01:42:04):
look it up when we're done. But yeah, I think
Saint Louis is a good could make it. But they
we always see a new coach give a team a
boost for a short period. I think the question is
how long does this team respond to Montgomery the way
they are?

Speaker 1 (01:42:19):
Yeah, that's fair, but they don't need to go on
an incredible run, right, They just need to go on
a steady run.

Speaker 2 (01:42:26):
They need to go on a steady run. And they
need Calgary and Vancouver to falter.

Speaker 1 (01:42:30):
Yeah, I mean, and I mean. The amazing thing is
the teams in this playoff run over the last ten,
Vancouver is the worst of two, four and three. That's
just like the Vancouver's biggest The big problem in Vancouver
isn't only that they're not playing well, is everyone else
and around them, Like Vegas, Edmonton in LA don't lose

(01:42:52):
two in a row. Well that's not true. Vegas just
lost two in a row. But the Oilers are eight
and two in their last ten. The Kings are six
three and one in their last ten. Like they just
keep winning, they don't lose a significant amount of time.

Speaker 2 (01:43:05):
I think last year, I don't think Vancouver is ready yet.
I think that they're a young team that had some success.
I don't think they're built to be a long run yet.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
I will I will refer to Sean and Chris when
we discussed that tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
You know, I think they're getting there, but I think
that there's still some holes. I think, you know, like Edmonton,
that I don't think Edmonton as good as their stats
show this year. Last year, like Edmonton has fought their
way back up. This is a team that doesn't have
a complete roster.

Speaker 1 (01:43:38):
Either they got Connor McDavid that just or they got
Connor McDavid and Leon Dryshodo that can score at will,
and they're scoring their way out of problem.

Speaker 2 (01:43:47):
They can out they can outscore their mistakes. Yeah, yeah, no,
I think if you I don't think it's Utah. I
think Utah is going to falter here Anaheim. I don't
think it's in the conversation at all. Like of Calgary,
Vancouver and Saint Louis. I guess Saint Louis makes the
most sense because I think they're they can do it.
I think Calgary could do it, but I don't think

(01:44:08):
they're going to no. I think the real story of
all of this is how Nashville has fallen so far.
He said, going into this, and I expected Nashville to
be in that wild card spot.

Speaker 1 (01:44:20):
Well, I to me, I think that one of the
things that happened in Nashville was that they I think
they overplayed their hand with these free agents. I think
that they were they thought that they were a little
bit ahead, and then what they were in terms of
their depth. They were hoping that a guy that guys

(01:44:40):
like Tommy Novak and Luke and Evangelisa would take their
next steps. And then you added a Marciaso and a
Stancos and with the Riley you're fine. And those young
guys didn't take that necessary step and it takes and
we saw this with Jonathan Hubert out right. I think
I think when free agents come into a new organization,
they will not like they don't get off the great starts.

(01:45:02):
They takes a while to adjust it. I can't I mean,
I would love to sit and talk to Nashville about
how Steven Stamkos, after spending in his entire career in
Tampa Bay, got sorted in Nashville. I think it's just taken.
It takes a while.

Speaker 2 (01:45:17):
Well, and when we say free agents, I'm gonna further
clarify that a little bit. I think first time free agents,
like you know, a guy like Stampcos, a guy like Huberto,
who are used to being in one market forever and
now I have to uproot yourself and your family and
go to new city. I think we see some guys
that are journeymen and they know how to do that.
They know how to go to a new market and
adjust right away. But I think when you've been in

(01:45:38):
one market for a long time and now you're being
asked to move and relocate and learn all new things,
I understand why that's hard.

Speaker 1 (01:45:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, it's just an adjustment. You're
adjusting the time zones are adjusting.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Yeah, and not just you, but both those guys are
now older, have families, you know, you know, like it's
one thing for you just go live in an apartment
or a hotel and do this, but it's another now
I was the wife doing, how are the kids doing?
Did they come? Are they back home? Like there's a
lot more elements that go into that that we don't see.

Speaker 1 (01:46:10):
Yeah, just for me and from a personal side of this,
I mean, I'm I'm no Steven Samco's here, But just
to put myself in a perspective of changing a little
bit later on in life, I don't move to Vancouver
if I have a wife and kids. I think I
end up staying in Calgary. But I'd mean it was
easier for me to move from Calgary to Vancouver because

(01:46:33):
I was single, so.

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
Exactly, And that's why I think for a lot of
these young guys, you know, when they get called up
from the AHL, it's kind of fun. I get to
live in a hotel, I get to live in a
bigger city. But yeah, when you're in your thirties and
you've got a wife and kids and they may not
even come with you depend on how long that deal
is right. And you know, we're all creatures of habit.
I think we all learned that, especially during the pandemic
when we're at home and not doing things we used to.

(01:46:58):
And I think just that I idea of I've got
to live and learn and find new places and learn
a new coffee shop. And you know, I can see.
I'm not saying it's an excuse, but I can understand
why it'd be a challenge.

Speaker 1 (01:47:10):
Yeah, yeah, all right, is there anything else we need
to discuss?

Speaker 2 (01:47:18):
I think that's about it for now in terms of
flame stuff. I think that's about it. I guess you might.
I guess my only other thought for you? Are you
excited about the four nation's face off?

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
I'm more excited than you are.

Speaker 2 (01:47:35):
Are you gonna watch it?

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
What's that? I will be watching to watch it all? Yes,
I will. I'll probably even do some review podcasts on
it because I'm just fascinating. I think the US will
win them picking them the win, but we'll Yeah, I know,
I know the tickets aren't going great right now, but
I think, you know, maybe when this gets closer, it

(01:47:58):
gets a little bit more interesting for people. But it's
still a month away, and I think even I think
with the NFL playoffs, that is also a really significant thing.
And I think this once the super Bowl is over,
once the NHL season is kind of in this break,
I think people will start focusing a little bit more
on the foreignations. I think even the players at this point,

(01:48:20):
there's especially in the Eastern Conference, the races are too
tight for them to kind of like focus on foreign ations.
There's nobody really I mean, there's a few teams out,
but the Eastern Conference seems to switch all the time.
And then the West you've got, I mean, even Utah
is trying to get in. I think Seattle feels pressure
to get in. I mean not out of the other teams, right,
but there's just a lot of other things going on

(01:48:41):
right now. I think when you're.

Speaker 2 (01:48:44):
Done with the NFL, I don't see this being a
traveling exhibition for a lot of people. I think your
tickets will come from locals totally. Yeah, and then they
can't see people say no, well travel from Calgary to
go watch this.

Speaker 1 (01:48:57):
Yeah. And I think going forward, they're going to have
to with this tournament. They're going to have to move
these things in places where it's not just the East.
It's going to have to be in a number of
different places like.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
Well, and I think it's like the All Star Game.
You will because this replaces the All Star Game every
second year. So I think you have markets that would
bid on this.

Speaker 1 (01:49:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:49:21):
One other question. I'll ask you, being a Vancouver you
probably saw the reaction better than I did. What Vancouver
responded well their p WHL game. Do you think they
get an expansion franchise?

Speaker 1 (01:49:35):
Yeah, I do. I mean they got nineteen thousand in
that game.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
And do you think it's sustainable in that market?

Speaker 1 (01:49:46):
Yes, I think if you if you put a reasonable
price point for the PWHL, I think people were more responded.
The thing is with Vancouver right now, I think for me,
there's not a lot of alternate entertainment into winter, like
it's Canucks. Some Giants are far away in Langley and

(01:50:10):
the Abbotsford Canucks are far away in Abbotsford, and you
know you, I just I think it's hard for a
lot of people from Vancouver to get into Abbotsford without
a vehicle. I wish there was a better transit system
from Vancouver to Abbotsford. So I think the p to WHL,
if you stick right in Vancouver, I think I think
it has a viable alternative for entertainment, for sports entertainment

(01:50:34):
in the city, go ahead, And I think I think
it's unique with the women. I think that the p
WHL has done a really good job of marketing their
product overall, you know, and they have some really thoughtful
people in sort of. I mean, I think Marifa Leipulen
is a person everybody wants to watch. I think Aaron

(01:50:56):
Ambrose is someone that everybody wants to listen to, you know.
I yeah, I think I think that the PWHL is
viable in Vancouver.

Speaker 2 (01:51:06):
As much I would love to see them in Calgary,
I'm not sure that you would get the market outside
of one season. Like with the NHL, the HL, the
the WHL, I'm not sure there'd be enough viable market.
I think you do for a season, I don't know
if you could do it for more than that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:26):
I think the PWHL has an advantage because they are
on sports at tsn CBC. I think it's easier for
that to be watched. I whereas unfortunately with The Wranglers
or The and the Hitman, the problem is that they're
on some streaming services that you have to pay for. Yeah,
I mean you have to pay for the other ones.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
But if you're a local owner, you don't care about
the TV as much. You got to get butts and
seats to make your money.

Speaker 1 (01:51:52):
I don't know that you can use TV to get butts.

Speaker 2 (01:51:55):
And seats right, you can, and again I think for
a season you could. But again, if I look at
most of these teams, I mean, Boston plays out of
six thousand Seed Venue, Ottawa eight thousand, Toronto eight thousand.
New York is playing out of the Predential Center, sixteen thousand,
Minnesota out of Excel. Like, I don't know how many
tickets you sell, and I don't know how many. Sure,
I think people go as a novelty, But then where

(01:52:18):
do you put them? Do they play out of the
new rink? I think the Flames are going to want
to get rid of some of those teams so they
have more time for concerts and stuff and a new rink,
not add more hockey.

Speaker 1 (01:52:26):
I don't know there would be a good argument to
keeping the Saddle Dome around if you had the PWHL.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
There, I agree, but I think the Stampede has already
said they're knocking it down. Yeah, I don't know the
PHL could. I don't know the p WHL could pay
them enough to make that viable by themselves. And either way, Kevin,
I think you're gonna shut that venue down for a

(01:52:52):
couple of years if you did want to keep it
and do some massive renolds, which I'd be okay with,
or making it, you know, another haul of the Bemo
Center slide that. But we've heard it's crumbling. Like I
think you would almost need to take the roof off,
do some repairs, put the roof back on fair or
build another saddle dome there with modern tac. I mean,

(01:53:18):
remember Madison Square gardens not really on Madison Square anymore,
like you know, that's the fourth Massion Square garden. I think,
so there's no reason you couldn't have a new saddle dome. Yeah,
I Saddler Dome, Saddler.

Speaker 1 (01:53:33):
I'm excited that the PWHL is starting to grow. I
think that this is great for the game of hockey
and and I think, you know, I think one of
the unfortunately, like I'm glad that this Hockey Day in Canada.
I think I'm glad that there's all where all seven
NHL teams are playing. I think one of the sad

(01:53:54):
things there should be a PWHL game on Hockey Day
in Canada.

Speaker 2 (01:53:58):
Yeah, and you know, I know that the NHL supporting PWHL,
and I would love to see the two leagues work together,
Like I know you'll never see probably a men's versus
women's game, but I would love to see even the
skills comp being men versus women or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:54:14):
All right, then did that actually with Steph Curry versus
someone for a three point? Like they've they've done it,
so I think it's the NHL had some some options
with Kendall coiling schooling Field, did some some skating competitions.
They've done it before.

Speaker 2 (01:54:33):
Yeah, And I don't know. I mean, we're not here
to talk about We're not here to talk about the PHL,
but I think too the question is are they viable
in the big markets they're viable in like I'm wondering
would they do better in Calgary or would they do
better in Red Deer Like I think you may have
started looking at some smaller markets or even a place
like Quebec City that's not served financial team fair. That's yeah,

(01:54:57):
that's Santa City, you know, place like that.

Speaker 1 (01:55:00):
Yeah, are Yeah, Well, will bring this up again. I
think it's an interesting conversation to have. But what's going
on with fireside chat?

Speaker 2 (01:55:10):
When you do your recording fireside Chat we record on Sundays,
will be recording tomorrow talking a lot about some of
the things that we talked about today, a couple other
things that me and Mike cos will be talking about.
We record once a week and you can find our
podcast Mondays wherever you can find fine podcasts, right next
to yours right.

Speaker 1 (01:55:30):
And of course we will be talking Canucks on Sunday
with Sean and Chris. Lots to talk about, especially after
the Oilers game. Will be interesting to see sort of
the reactions after that, So check us out tomorrow around
the same time, and we'll also be doing going forward.
We're looking at doing a full NHL specific issues podcast
where we talk about some of the other issues that

(01:55:51):
are going on in a more lengthier form. But we'll
get into that when that happens here where I'm working
on that. But you can follow us on Beardy Canuck
zero three, Tyler who tells you all to calm down,
t n O B l E. Chris Sneid, Schneid's s
c h n E I d said, find Devin on
on Instagram and the Holmes Smith, I believe, and I

(01:56:14):
am K E v O Leon all socials. Thank you
for watching, Thank you for listening. We will talk to
you all very soon. Bye for now

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