March 9, 2025 • 62 mins
The Flames trade deadline was quiet. What are our thoughts?
Matt from Fireside Chat joins Kevin to discuss.
We look at the perceived gainers and step backers.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shifts-and-pucks-podcast--3065338/support.
Matt from Fireside Chat joins Kevin to discuss.
We look at the perceived gainers and step backers.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/shifts-and-pucks-podcast--3065338/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
And I quote, I'll be there in a minute, give
me a second. Time is relative, folks, Time is relative.
So hey, cheers to everybody in the chat.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Is their a division rival? I don't care how many gets,
how many wins they get.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Screw them. That wasn't the take I was expecting to hear.
I want to gush over watching live Christianna. I think
that we completely underestimate the skill it takes to play defense.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
One highlight or several highlights does not called their trophy.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Mate.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm stepping in here on I'm going to be the
across the old man here. They need to learn patience.
They need to understand the tension thinking in the drama.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Oh dere, look at this.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
How is McDavid not getting the penalty?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
You guys need to calm down with this.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Okay, you guys need to calm down with Oh good grave.
If you were on social media for the morning here
across Western Canada, it is not calm in Flamesland. It's
even not calmer in Canucks Land. But about the lack
(01:30):
of action on both markets for the Flames and the Canucks.
We'll focus on the Flames here. Welcome to the shifts
and Pucks podcast. You can follow us on x AT
Shifts and Pucks, Facebook dot com Shifts and Pucks, YouTube
dot com Shifts and Pucks, subscribe wherever you get your audio.
As we are live about an hour in a soul,
(01:53):
a little bit after the trade deadline has hit. It
was a very interesting trade deadline for a lot of teams,
and we'll get into that, but we'll start with the
Flames and we of course we are joined today by
Matt Duborg from fireside Chat. How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh? Pretty good. My second favorite team made a really
great trade getting Brad marchand today so I'm looking forward
to the ratline of Bennett Kachuck and Marshand heading on
to the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So last week, if those for those that watch wrestling,
John Cena turns heel. He turns his back on the fans.
After twenty years being a face, Brad marchand after all
these years being in Boston, bruin and by the way,
almost knocking out the Florida Panthers in the first round
of the playoffs a couple of years ago, is now
(02:52):
a Florida Panther. Now this is the year of the Heel.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah, and it was an excellent trade by the Panthers left,
you know, perfect fit for both their need and the
player that they got.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Well, you know what's actually I think before we get
into the finals, I think what is absolutely fascinating about
what happened there is it really felt like Vegas was
going to get Marsha. Yeah, like I think Florida kind
of swooped into the last minute and did the Vegas.
So that Florida Tampa series. If whenever Florida and Tampa play,
(03:28):
good grief, that's going to be fun to watch.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, I know. It seems like both in the West
and the East. The conference finals will be starting in
the first round with Dallas likely facing Colorado ye and
Tampa likely facing Florida, and well remember wins those series.
I think we'll probably end up going all the way
to the finals.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah. The only counter argument that I would have to
that is if it gets if you get too beat
up because of those intense series. So yeah, but that
will be interesting. But let's focus on the Flames trade deadline.
Coming into this trade deadline, they come off this this
the toughest road trip of the year, longest road trip
(04:12):
of the year. Some have called it the Gauntlet, and
they kind of survived. I think they kind of I'm
gonna say they kind of survived the gauntlet.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
They well, yeah, like to me, like the five good teams,
they went one in four, So like, yes, they got
some loser points in two of those games, but realistically,
like they didn't really do all that great.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, what I was, what I was gonna say is
they played a pretty solid game against Washington. They played
a pretty solid game against Tampa. They did not play
a solid game against Florida. They were okay against Carolina.
They got some poor goaltending against Philadelphia. I think I
was a little bit like I think their best effort
(04:58):
was the Dallas Star game. But what I will also say,
I think it was also the most disappointing because you
did have a two nothing lead and you know, you
came away with the point. But it would have been nice.
I would have been happier with the three and whatever
it would have been. Yeah, yeah, three two and one.
I would have been more preferable than the two, two
(05:19):
and two. But they got six points. There is the
loser point. Whatever we think about that. That's the rules
that they have and they are in a playoff spot
and the Flames we're gonna and I know you and
I are going to disagree on this, so and I
think I'm looking forward to this because I think we're
not having this discussion in Flamesland. It's either one way
or the other. So yeah, but kind of the Flames
(05:45):
ended up doing nothing at the trade deadline, no trades.
Craig Conroy did what in his interview said he was
trying to do some retention spot deals for third party
retention and the only options really that were available to
him were who year retentions. So and I know that
this was something that I was hoping, hoping the Flames
(06:06):
would do, as you would either make a I'm not
wasn't on the buy sell train. I was on the
hockey trade ch hockey trade part if you can, if
you cannot, let's see if we can do some third
party retention. And it wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, Like the only kind of trade that was like
that was the Shaye Weber from Utah to Chicago trade,
just so it can help the Blackhawks reach the cap
floor next year. Yeah, and even then, you know that
the different set of circumstances entirely than where the Flames
(06:41):
are at right exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So most there's most of the social media is kind
of on the Flame side anyway, is a little upset
they didn't do anything. Let I'll hear from you first.
Let's let's hear where you're at.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, Well, to me, like paying some of the price
tags that you saw with various players, like say that
Dylan Cousins trade would have been foolish from the Flames
point of view, like there's no need right now to
flesh out this team with nhlrs that are kind of
(07:21):
struggling at the NHL level like Cousins. Is when you
can still use those assets in either trade for somebody
else of the draft or utilize those draft picks. With
the Flames track record of actually making some pretty astute
selections over the last number of years, having more shots
in the gun makes a lot more sense than you know,
(07:44):
hoping for a bounce back from a guy that's playing
in a bad team.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, that Ottawa Buffalo trade, I don't know where I'm
at with that because it feels like like Buffalo picks
up a player that is often injured in Josh Norris,
Jacob Bernard. Docker that's an interesting pickup for Buffalo. Because
he's a he was a top five pick, not a
top ten pick, a top five pick. And the Senators
(08:12):
bring back Dennis Gilbert, former Flame, one of three former
Flames that were traded on this trade deadline. By the way,
I'm not sure what to make of that trade. I
don't know if Ottawa improved, and I don't know if
Buffalo improved. I feel like this is project for project, and.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, shuffling the deck chairs more or less.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, And I heard you last week on fireside chat.
You were talking about you didn't see that Dylan Cousins
is a fit with Calgary, and I agree with you,
there's there wasn't really a trade fit with Dylan Cousins
of no.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And like realistically, like Calgary would have had to have
traded like Connor Zori plus you know, something one of
like our premium prospects or draft picks just to get Cousins.
And like the difference between zar Ian Cousins, in my mind,
is not that much to where it would make sense
(09:05):
to pull that kind of trade. And I like Ottawa
getting rid of Norris in that deal, like it at least,
you know, like he's injured a lot, and so like
removing that question mark of is this player going to
play in our lineup at all? Like you are getting
a surefire NHL center out of it, So it makes
(09:28):
a little bit more sense from their point of view.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, and Ottawa wanted to get a little bit tougher
and meaner and all of that sort of stuff, and
they feel like Dylan Cousins can give them that and
get his Gilbert adds some depth, and I just I
don't think that you're trading Connor's area at this point.
I mean, I think that the guy is possible future
captain with the team, and so I don't see that happening.
(09:53):
So yeah, I mean, and then I guess kind of
victation was as the course you had the unrestricted free
agents of Joe Hanley, Dan Vloodar, and then there's sort
of the expectation of trading the the Jake, Jake Beans,
Demitri Daniel, Deno merrimounta party, and then of course you
(10:15):
got the big the big Fish, the Cadres, the Anderson's
and the Colmans and the Craig Conray. I think has
been very clear of what's happening with with all of
those guys. They weren't going to trade Rasmus Anderson until
they could start negotiating with him on July first. So
that's an off season or next season conversation. Nazen Cagri
is on a no move situation, so and and you
(10:40):
whether okay and Matt it's this is the reality of
the situation is. I'm here in Richmond and close to Vancouver.
There was a party. The Vancouver Canucks invited the Calgary Flames,
Utah Hockey Club, Saint Louis Blues, and even a little
for a little time, the Anaheim Ducks. They invited him
to the party. They went to sleep and thinking that
(11:02):
all of these guys would leave the party, and instead
the Flames took over the bedroom. The Saint Louis Blues
are in the kitchen, the Anaheim Ducks are sitting in
the living room, and the Utah Hockey Club, the Utah
Hockey Club is hanging out at the patio. The Flames.
I think everybody agrees that the Flames are not a
good enough team to be in the playoffs, but the
reality is is that they are in the playoffs. And
(11:24):
I don't think that you can sue a sell off
at with this team, especially when you've got to negotiate
a contract. Whether you agree that you should keep Rasmus
Anderson or not. You don't want to make this easier.
You don't want to make this an easier decision for him.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Well, and the thing that like where I like, I
feel Calgary kind of struggled on the day and like
I would give them probably a D on the day
or less. It would have only been an F if
they had spent some of the prices to add. Yeah,
you know, it's one of those where like realistically, like say,
(12:05):
like with the Fairbe Frost trade, you've more or less
replaced what Cadre and Coleman bring to this team is
in terms of a second line caliber center and like
middle six winger that are in your age group, and
like heading into next season, like the Flames now have
(12:29):
you know, like the only spot that's going to be
opened up through expiring contracts is Kevin Rooney's spot, So
you're going to have to.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And they got heat. I know.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I'm just talking the forwards specifically, where like in order
to open up spots to say sign a free agent
or you know, open up a spot for Hansig or Stromgren,
who are both knocking on the door, you have to
move some bodies out, and like this is where like
(13:05):
I feel that they it was a lost opportunity because
of the fact that you kind of managed to replace
those two guys already internally with the Frost trade, that
why not go that extra step and cash out those
assets and you know you can revisit or you know,
(13:26):
even pull a trade similar to the JT. Miller trade
where you get assets in and then immediately flip it
for something else. And it's one of those where like
a it's lack of moves like this, where like if
you were to ask me, like why Calgary is perpetually
(13:46):
in the middle of the NHL, this is it Like
like the Flames are dead last in the NHL heading
into the Dallas game for goals in the NHL, Like
they were literally tied going into that game with the
Anaheim Ducks with like one hundred and sixty two goals
in sixty one games. Like that's not a good showing
(14:09):
at all. And it's not like, oh, well, we need
these guys to dig in, like everybody is giving one
hundred percent. This is what we've got. We've got the
worst offense in the NHL, and like, granted, the Western
Conference has seven good teams in it, and then you know,
(14:29):
as you alluded to, with the Canucks, Flames, Ducks, Utah,
and the Blues all being you know, basically who's the
least bad of that group, Like Calgary I feel could
have pushed their build and retool efforts ahead had they
(14:50):
moved ahead with cashing out Kaudre and Coleman's assets and
perhaps utilizing them in a different way way, And especially
with the high price bags that were. You know, like
we saw brock Nelson what he got, Like Cadre, you
probably get the same return and it's as frustrating to
(15:12):
see some of those returns when you know, like realistically,
I don't think Calgary makes the playoffs anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Well, this is why I disagree with you, is because
I don't think the most of those picks, most of
those trades were draft picks. The Flame have draft picks, right,
The Flames have a ton of draft picks for the
next three years. So what are you what do you
need another draft pick for? If anything, if there was
and you probably honestly, the Nazen Kadri trade to Colorado
(15:43):
happens if the Flames are six points out of the
playoffs that happens, and it's likely that Callum Richie return
that the Islanders got for brock Nelson probably happens for
the Flames. But they're in the play Like the dilemma
is is they're actually in a playoff spot. And I
understand a lot of people are talking about what they're
gonna get caked by Winnipeg. I think that there's and
(16:05):
you're right, I actually agree with you. They're not. I
don't see them making the playoffs, but I see the
value in trying for this team to get the experience
to learn how to get into the playoffs. I still
think that there's a value in that. I know that
everybody wants these top ten picks, and I think that
this has been a whole discussion around the top ten
(16:27):
pick this draft is basically it's not a good draft.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
And I don't like, realistically, yeah, like realistically, the guy
that you pick at, say ten, and the guy that's
at like eighteen to twenty is not going to be
a huge step down from one another this year.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
No, and you know what, nobody's talking about this, but
Ryan Pike brought this up, and I need to bring
this up. Again, the twenty twenty six pick with Montreal
is only the first selection protected, So if the Flames
do not give up this twenty twenty five pick, it
is basically unprotected next year in twenty twenty six. Yeah,
(17:06):
so you might as well get rid of this pick
now and get this out of the way. Like again,
it's the I just I guess I look at this
as that there's value in experience even if you don't
make him, like make it him, even if you Dustin
Wolf can learn something from it, even if he doesn't
(17:27):
get in you know, like, oh no, I get that.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah. And it's one of those things where like the
silver lining to this is that, like all of those
guys are under contract after this season, and you can
still trade them at the draft, much like Jacob Marx
from UH and like the trade rumors to New Jersey
at the deadline and then it getting done on Draft
Day instead. And you know, like, would I be shocked
(17:56):
if the Flames made those moves on the day before
the draft? No, And you know, and it's just one
of those things where you know, like I'm looking ahead,
like it's hard to envision, like a shoe does have
to drop with the forward ranks, even if you're wanting
(18:18):
to keep most of the guy the veteran guys intact,
just because you know, like Stromgren is not very far
off at being an NHL player. He's been excellent last
couple of months. Hanzig looked fantastic in the preseason, played
well when he was here, and has actually been really
good on the Wranglers as well. So I think so
(18:44):
he either was recently or is now not that I'm
not really one hundred percent sure at this second.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
But the.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Thing is is that like if the Flames want to
use the seventeen million dollars that they have in cap
space on free agency, like you need to actually have
some spots to actually put those people, because like it's
hard to convince you know, insert random free agent guy
here that well, hey, you know, welcome to the Flames
(19:17):
third line. Like, you know, it's just hard at this
point because of the fact there's no room.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
My counter to that, like, I see what you're saying,
but my counter that too is getting this Reinler team
through a good playoff run I think can help the
Flames going forward because they're gonna learn about that is,
they're gonna learn what it takes to go through the
playoffs as well, so we can see a better William Stomgren.
We could see a better Samuel Hansig.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And I mean if it just felt like there was
a lot of draft picks that were being tossed around
and I don't like, again, if there were players, if
Logan Steinghoven was available for the Flames, you make that trade.
I think that that's something I would have considered for
the Flames. But I just don't think they need draft picks.
Those are eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
No, and yeah, like yeah, like realistically, like what I
was kind of envisioning, like say, like the Flames got
a first round pick for Cadre just flat. He probably
would have returned a prospect or two, but just say
it was just the first round pick, like I would
envision like using that capital to then you know, go
(20:31):
into buyer mode at the trade deadline as well, and
then you know like have your pick of you know,
insert player that was traded today instead that kind of thing. Yeah,
maybe like more or less like shifting like the asset
from being a thirty for four year old center to
you know, somebody that fits your timeline a little better
(20:53):
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, it's I think that they where I don't think
that they were in a rock in a hard place.
I don't will say that, but I think Conray has
been focused pretty much on this is kind of the plan.
They weren't going to be they said, excuse me, they
weren't going to be in the rental market. They weren't
going to be in the seller market. And to move
(21:16):
to the defensive part of this, well, I just I
want to stay in the forward part for a second.
They're getting and one of the things that Conray did
say today was they're just getting Frost and Farrabee kind
of acclimatized to the Flames. If Farrabe scored a hell
of a goal against Dallas, that was a hell of
a goal. I think eventually, I think Morgan Frost is
(21:38):
eventually going to take Michael Backland minutes like that's how
That's what I see there. I it would have been
nice to find a fourth line. I think everybody's been
wanting a fourth line center better than Kevin Riney. The
reality is is.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Well, yeah, like realistically, moving forward, the replacement for Kevin
Rooney on the fourth line is Michael Backland and you know,
like next season, like realistically, the Flames need to get
it at one or two CE and have Frost as
your third line center and backline as your fourth line,
(22:17):
especially if you're keeping Kudre heading into next year, and
it's gonna be a little bit of a challenge for
the team. But I think, like especially in free agency,
like throwing everything at a center that's of some quality
is priority number one, two, three, and four.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, they still I would argue, they still need two centers.
I agree, you would like to get one right shot.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So and I think realistically in the draft, like frankly,
with the Flames having several picks in the top three rounds,
I would be shocked if less than half of them
were right shot centers, Like you know, if there's anybody
in that range that makes sense. Yeah, I think that
(23:05):
that's how it's gonna And I won't.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Be surprised if they try to trade for one with
use some of that draft capital to get a Yeah,
I wouldn't. Like I'm thinking a guy like Kirby Doc
might be an interest, I mean often injured, but a
a guide that they look at as an example, uh defense.
And I also think like they also they still need
(23:31):
to Like you mentioned it, it's it's hard not to
argue the offensive side. They still need some offensive talent
to find overall that is, and in terms of forwards
as well. So that's still a work in progress. Let
me let me toss some I think some people have
suggested this is not going to happen. This has been
(23:53):
kind of a tough year for you, your sharing Govic.
I would I think he's been hurt for a lot
longer than I think he's cared to admit. I think
the end of the season conference is going to tell
us that, and especially last night, I mean he really struggled.
It struggled in his own end. Is that a possible
trade trip?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
No, just the term left on it with four years
of five million, like you're going to have to eat
at least one more year to see And you know, honestly,
Sharon Govic in the preseason was Sharon Govic of last year.
And then he got hurt right off the bat. And
every player that I've ever seen get hurt that misses
(24:37):
like a month of the season always has a terrible
year and then bounces back to being the same player
they were the following year because more or less, like
all the players train hard to get into NHL shape
for the start of the season, and then because you're injured,
you basically lose all of that conditioning and waffle. Like
(25:00):
I remember there was one season that Michael Backlan strained
like an ab muscle and missed like the first month,
and he was absolutely terrible that season, and yet like
the ten plus years since, like he's been the mister consistent.
So I'm not concerned about Sharon Govic. I think he'll
have a good bounce back year next year. It's just
(25:24):
unfortunate timing and luck for the type of injury that
he got and the duration of it.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, I can see that for sure. Defensively, I think
there was a hope, There was an expectation I think
for a lot of people to see Joel Hanley UFA
move didn't happen. I think there's two ways to look
at this, Uh, Joel Hanley. I think that if there,
if it's the white plight price, the Flames will probably
(25:54):
consider it resigning him. But the thing is, like I'm
not saying it Joel Hanley is I want to be clear,
I don't think Joel Hanley is a top four defenseman,
but unfortunately this year. The problem is he's been the
best defense partner for Mackenzie Wager this year.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah no, And like, realistically, if the Flames sort of
dealt him today, like they would have got maybe a
seventh round draft pick, which does not move the needle.
It would be like training Vlador for a fourth or
a fifth. That's like, or we could just keep our
backup goaltender, like you know, And yeah, like that is
definitely a position that this team needs to address heading
(26:34):
into the offseason, getting a full time equalish talent player
to play with Wiger. I know that Zane Perrek is
likely going to be in the NHL next year based
off of him utterly demolishing the OHL again, so you
(26:54):
might see him getting promoted to play with Wiger. We'll see.
But yeah, they definitely do need to do something with
that spot.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I know that. Everybody I'm not saying don't get
excited about his name, correct, But I will also say
I wish there was an AHL option for him for Yeah, Like,
I think that that has to be fixed because he
probably it would not hurt him to play a little
bit of time at AHL. Just to get acclimatized and
(27:26):
then bring him back to d NHL if you have
that option.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, well, like he's literally the first defenseman in the
OHL since Bobby Or to score back to back thirty
goal seasons as a defenseman. So like, that's absolutely fantastic.
And he probably goes second or third overall if they
do a redraft from last year. So the Flames definitely
(27:50):
hit a home run on that pick. It's just hoping
that he can get a little bit of experience with
something more, as you said, either a run to the
Memorial Cup or uh, you know, maybe some HL playoff time.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah for sure. Uh yeah, so that's the and then
Vloodar there was the other option here, and I think
just you know, again, it's kind of like Handley, you're not.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Well, and if Devin Cooley was playing well, then I
think that they might have just to see what Koley
would bring. But he has been a disaster since he
returned from injury. The Wranglers, I do believe, have only
won one of their last eleven games due to both
(28:39):
Ignatiev and him playing terribly. So yeah, it's kind of
tough for to move Ladar unless you're getting a goalie
in return, and you know how many situations are there
where that even makes sense, Like the only one I
could think of would be to like have a trade
(29:00):
where chet Pickard comes back, uh, sending Blodar to Edmonton
and who wants to help them out?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, well, well the Wranglers sit third in there in
the Pacific Division, and so with sixty six points. I
think the one thing I do admit I was kind
of surprised in last year they did find some help
for the Wranglers this year they did not. Yeah that
that's a bit a bit of a disappointment for me
(29:30):
that they didn't do that.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, because frankly, like the Wranglers probably could have used
another depth forward or two, sort of like the trading
Pederson for Danny Anne. I do believe it was yeah,
that kind of thing, but uh, that didn't materialize. And yeah,
(29:52):
and honestly, with how the Wranglers have been playing of late,
like they're in danger of making the missing the playoffs
altogether there as well, like especially if this streak of
poor play continues for very much longer.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, now the retention spot, which I think, like I do,
I do agree with Conry that you couldn't do a
two year one.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Like it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
No, Yeah, so I think, and you have one because
you're still retaining a mark Strom. I think that. I
think the other thing that I wonder that they're thinking
a little bit about is if you end up trading
Cadri or Coleman, there might be a salary retention that
might have to happen in one of those trades that.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
They could well and even conceivably like it might potentially
be possible to trade Huberdough if you eat some of
that too, like especially with his good season, ye because
you know, like say, huber do at eight million dollars
is not out of line for you know, like a
whole bunch of teams. So we'll see. And it's just
(31:01):
I do believe it's a good idea to have those
retention spots open for the time being until you can
either move on from assets like Kaudrey or huber Doh
or you know, leave yourself the same flexibility at the
trade deadline next year.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's basically it. With the Flames, I
think with the Flames, I think I think a lot
of this is will get We'll go through this playoff
battle for the last twenty games. They could end up
in the playoffs, they could end up missing the playoffs,
but there's also a possibility they end up in the
top ten as well. There.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Yeah, there are only actually four points up on tenth.
So it's in like with twelve of their games remaining
being against teams that are either elite or you know,
right in the same pack that they are fighting for
their playoff lives. Like, that's a good chunk of the
remaining schedule and it won't be easy for the Flames
(32:04):
to maintain a pace that they have to this point,
so you know, like it they're to me, like, honestly,
it's flip a coin. They could end up in the
playoffs or they could be a top ten team and
could go either way.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot to wait for with the Flames,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
One minor thing that I wanted to add is that
the Flames having New Jersey's pick with Jack Hughes being out, Like,
if the Flames do end up losing their first round pick,
they might end up having one that's right in the
same zone anyway because of that, So.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, exactly, and you usually really didn't do anything.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
No, they flushed out some depth, but you know, that's
that's about it.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, okay, So let's go around the league here and
kind of go through a couple of few interesting things. Actually,
let's kind of stay here a little bit on the
Flame side, just because there were three former Flames that
did move. Dennis Gilbert we talked about move from Buffalo
to Ottawa. Andre Kuzmenko, who was just traded to the Flyers.
(33:15):
It's part of that Frost Farrab Pilche trade. Has was
traded to the Kings. Kings do need some scoring, it's
just not andre Kuzmenko. But that's okay.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Well, to be fair to Kouzzi, he has been better
since the start of the calendar year and a viable
second third line scorer for a team needing somebody who
might potentially put the puck in the net. Would not
be my first choice, but for the price that La paid,
that was worth it for them.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
And then the other one was Oliver Shillington, who got
moved not once but twice. He gets moved to the
Islanders as part of the brock Nelson deal and then
he gets moved to Anaheim for Dan's favorite player future
considerations kind of, I sort of. I think Oliver Shillington
ended up getting some bad advice from somebody or decided
(34:09):
some things that probably at the end he regrets.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Well and realistically, like if he had been here since
the start of the year instead of in Colorado, he
probably has played sixty games this year.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, he would have been a really good partner for
we year.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah probably, Yeah, he would have at least got the
same shot that Barry and Hanley and Bean have had.
And you know, to Bean's credit, he has come out
as a fairly good third bearing defenseman. But you know,
like there was an opportunity for Shillington to potentially be
(34:49):
a top four defenseman on this team. And and said
he's now in his third fourth organization in the calendar year.
And yeah, not the best decision that he he made,
but yeah, the Klingberg also left sixty million dollars on
the table, So sometimes things go drastically wrong for you
(35:09):
as well.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, and then so let's start with the playoff grouping here.
So it's actually interesting Saint Louis didn't add anything, Vancouver
doesn't make a move, and Utah makes the salary dump
or the give Chicago legendary, legendary Arizona Coyote Shay Weber
to Chicago. But so really nobody does anything in that
(35:35):
in that battle for that final playoff spot anyways.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, Like, realistically, Vancouver basically sold off Sussi for a
third round pick a couple of days ago. Yeah, and
that was the only trade that anybody made from that
group that actually impacted the NHL team.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah, we saw the Vegas tweet. They said hi, and
then they did nothing, which is very in Vegas.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Well, realistically, they've already traded their first round picks from
last year and uh this year and next year, so
they don't really have a ton of things to chips
to play with right at the moment. So yeah, sucks
to be them. Oh wait, like they already have most
(36:24):
of their key guys locked up forever anyway.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, and they're getting Shayodoor back here before the playoffs.
So that's that. That's will be that trade deadline ad.
They're they're gonna They've had a full season with Tomas Hurtle,
They're gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I think a massive I think the I would put
in the top two of the losers of this trade
deadline week is the Edmonton Oilers, And maybe I have
some bias against the Eulers, but I don't understand what
you You acquired a player that is injured that you're
(37:02):
you got for two that you're not going to play
for two weeks in Trent Frederick. You aren't able to
get a trade of Ander Kaine, which I think is
a massive error. I and Matt naked Victor Arvidson a
no movement clause.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Yeah, and then I know that I know the whole
offseason and through the trade deadline has been just one
bungled thing after another, like spending the money on Arvidson
and Skinner that should have gone to bro Berg and Holloway.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Then you have you only get a second and a
third round pick for those two good young players who
go on to be fairly decent pieces for Saint Louis.
Then you have to spend a first round pick, the
second and third that you just got, plus more things
to get Walman and Frederick, who are not as good
(38:01):
as Holloway or bro Burg. Like it's like, what the
hell are you thinking? Like you know, it's just mystifying,
like it you could have just not shot yourself in
the foot and just paid those two players, and like
they wanted to be oilers and you know, like it
(38:22):
would have been better, you know, like, hey, we actually
have some homegrown talent on our team and instead, you know,
insert thirty three year old plus guys and then having
to backfill and basically get lesser versions of the guys
they gave up, Like it just does not make any
(38:43):
sense to me.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
No, No, they're off season two nowadays. Has not made
any sense at all.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Well, and then like on top of it, like not
figuring out how to get a goaltender. Yeah, like how
many would rate it at the deadline and none of
them went to Edmonton. Yeah, Like no offense to Skinner
or Pickard. Neither one of them is a starting goalie
in the NHL. And like when Vladar, who's an average backup,
(39:13):
would have been a significant improvement to their goaltending, Like
they could have got anybody, and I think it would
have been a boost for them, And like heading into
the playoffs, like especially if they lose, which you know,
if they face a team like Colorado or Dallas, they're
(39:33):
going to lose, Like you know, that's almost a fireable
offense for their general manager, just the overall in competent
moves from the start of last offseason until now.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, I mean part of the problem is is it
was in Bowman that made those moves. It was Jeff Jackson, right,
so yeah, who took over for Ken Holland briefly, they're like,
can we everybody's talking about how incompetent the Flames offense is.
Whyan Nugent Hopkins has thirty eight points, that is less.
(40:10):
Connor McDavid has seventy nine. That's even less than half.
So that's not even Like if there wasn't a dry
title in a McDavid on this Oilers team.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
They'd be down. They'd be in that conversation with Chicago
and San Jose like they're not a good team.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
And I I don't know, I'm partly I do believe
the Oilers can beat the Kings in the first round.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
But I'm I'm beginning to question that even you know,
just the overall depth of the Kings, you know, and
Kemper is a better goal Reddick is a better goalie
than what the other two guys have been this season,
and you know, like LA's depth is better than Edmonton's,
(40:58):
and like unless McDavid and dry style steal the show,
which they can, like and they can beat the Kings,
but like if they run into any of the good teams,
whether it's Winnipeg, Dallas or Colorado or even Vegas, Like,
(41:19):
I do not see a realistic way that the Oilers
win that series. Like it's just you know, especially with
Dallas getting Miko Ranton and like one step away from
saying you can lock the West up. Dallas is going
to the finals, you know, and it'll be either Dallas
(41:43):
or Colorado at this point, just based on like the
makeups of each of the teams, And like, I just
do not see how, you know, unless you know, you
get all of the horseshoes that you know, a team
like Edmonton gets past any of those good teams, and yeah,
(42:05):
like it'd be basically like saying to me, like, oh,
the Calgary Flames are going to come out of the
Western Conference this year.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
It's like no, nobody's saying, yeah, let's get to the
Central Because I think that this becomes interesting. I think
that there's a lot of people that are gonna be
favoring Dallas. The one thing that concerns me is that
right side of that blue line has Cody cc who
(42:34):
is okay, Matt Dumba who is okay. But they never
they never got to address that right side of the
blue line. Thomas Harley. I mean, Thomas Harley was great
in the Four Nations. We know what Miro Heightst can
can do if he's healthy. That the so the left
side is good. The right side concerns me. That forward
group though, I mean with Mikol Branton and it does
(42:55):
add into dimension. I mean, they are going to be
there's no question that the Dallas Stars are going to
be very, very tough. It's just it's that Colorado Dallas
series is going to be a battle.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see. Like, you know,
if I'm Colorado, I'm gonna try to like hold back
a bit and you know, get one of the wild
card spots, so you face Vegas in the first round
and go through our division instead, because that's a lot
easier of a road than going through Dallas and then
Winnipeg and then you know Vegas probably at the end.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah, Colorado did all season has made I mean they
reshifted to their goal attending from Gorgiev and I mean
they brought in Mackenzie Blackwood's Scott Wedgwood they brought in.
I mean, they revamped their forward group by trading Miko
rant In for Martin Acass and Jack Drury, and then
(43:54):
they traded Casey Middlestaff for Charlie Coyle and then they
bring in Brock Nelson. They basically did an off seas
in the moves during the season, which.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Is rebuild the team on the fly.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Basically, that was literally they got on the fly. They
did that, so it's interesting to see what the chemistry
on that team is going to work or not.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
But I mean, yeah, like either they hit a home
run Grand Slam or you know, things will go off
the rails a bit heading into the playoffs because it
usually does take guys a little bit of time to
figure out new teams, although Natus really didn't take very
long at all.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
There was a lot of people talking about how overrated
Martin Nycast was and I'm like, Nope, that guy's not
overrated at all. He is a damn good player and
a damn good fit in Colorado.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
And yeah, so yeah, like who knew trading Ranton in
for some younger player would actually met you a better result.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
That was quite a Gamble by both Tulsky and McFarlane,
and it's kind of working out for Colorado. It's going
to be interesting to see what happens with Carolina. I
want to touch on Winnipeg though, before we get to
the East, because I am not sold on this team,
to be honest, I think they.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Never They've never actually figured out how to actually win
in the playoffs, and like they were consistently an elite team,
but they don't have like those players that just know
how to win in the playoffs, and like speaking of
Brad Marshan from earlier, like that should have been more
(45:34):
the type of player that they went for, somebody who's
actually been there and done it properly and has that
edge to his game, where you know guys that are
more passenger types like on a hand and to Folly
and even Paul Stastny when they got him, Like none
of those guys have like dragged their team anywhere. And yeah,
(45:58):
like as good as like got acquisitions like Tanev were like,
that's not going to really move the needle for you
very much.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, it's and I think that that's part of the problem.
I I think their power play has carried them a
lot we cheat. We see different rules in the playoffs,
and I'm not If Calgary gets in, I don't think
they'd beat Winnipeg. If Utah gets in, I don't think
they beat Winnipeg, But I do think Saint Louis and
Vancouver have more than a puncher's chance of beating Winnipeg
(46:26):
in the first round.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Honestly, you know, health healthy, Honestly with the Flames, how
they've fared with the Jets in the regular season thus far, Honestly,
I would do that as more of a toss up
than I would Flames versus any of the other playoff teams.
And like I would not expect the Flames to win
(46:51):
that series, but it would be a lot closer than
you know, like if the Flames they played Dallas or
Colorado in the first round, I think that those will
be more or less four games and have fun. But
you know, like I think the Flames, even Utah could
give Winnipega run for their money. I don't think they.
(47:11):
I don't think any of the four teams actually beat
the Jets, but it wouldn't shock me if any of
them did.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's where we're at with the West
it's we've got like we had the arms race of there,
and then the arms race in Florida, which, good grief,
you've got Yanni Gordon all over bork stride in Tampa.
Then Florida they get Sata Jones. Last week they get
(47:41):
and then they bring in Nico Sturham, with good fourth
line center, and then they bring in Brad Marshall. Like
good that that that series is just a ball of
hate all over the place.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
And yeah, I'm kind of hoping that Toronto drops down
a spot so that way, like those two teams have
a proper run up to facing each other instead of
like that being the first round matchup, because that will
be the series in the East. Yeah, Like I truly
feel that whoever wins that series wins the Cup from
(48:15):
the or goes to the Cup from the East, and probably,
you know, unless Dallas or Colorado is in the finals
from the West, I think that the East wins this year.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Fair. Yeah, So and then you got Tampa Toronto they
bring in Scott Lawton, which is a good third line piece.
Brandon Carlo there was some word he was sort of
in the calorie conversation. I said that I would listen
to Brent about Brandon Carlo, But ultimately, I don't think
you're giving up a prospect like Fraser Mitten for Brandon Carlow.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
No, And again, the only way that Carlo made sense
to me is if you were going to play shuffle
the deck chairs where you trade out Anderson. Yeah, and
then you use part of those piece is to get
Carlow or some variation or like say you trade New
Jersey or Florida's first round pick, and you know you
do the swap that way. But yeah, like the what
(49:12):
the Leafs paid, you know, all the power to them,
like that they needed to, frankly, and that does make
Toronto a better team and you know, slightly more of
a chance that they might actually go somewhere in the
playoffs this year, but it's not going to be easy
for them. And you know, with Tampa and Florida both
(49:35):
stocking up, like that's each of the series, Like, no
matter what the matchups are, like, that's going to be
the most fun out of the Eastern Conference, and the
rest of them don't seem overly interesting by comparison.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, it's well, yeah, Washington, who didn't do it, also
didn't do anything on this trade deadline day and sit
in second overall, first in the East. So we've got
they got that, and then you've got Carolina, who I
think is I mean, we'll see what happens here. I mean,
(50:14):
they take that. I don't blame Rik Tulsky for taking
the run. I don't know if they're a strong enough
team to beat Washington. Probably they can beat New Jersey.
But you know who's four points behind New Jersey, Matt
the New York Rangers. The Columbus Blue Jackets. Oh yeah,
I am.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
I wouldn't sleep on the Blue Jackets.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
No, I would not either. I would not either they
are able to score.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Yeah, and honestly, it'll be interesting, like if Columbus is
able to pass New Jersey, and especially with Hughes being out,
you know, a matchup between Carolina and Columbus would I
think would be fun because you have a freewheeling offense
and Columbus versus the staunch defense of Carolina. It would
(51:04):
be an interesting matchup to see who could actually come
out on top of that.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, that's that's for sure. And then you've gotten in
the other wildcard spot Ottawa and renting the Rangers. Detroit's
one point behind. Montreal is hanging around, and then you
got Boston, who basically sold the farm there out of this,
and the I think from Boston down as there, I
think they're out. Oh yeah, I'm still not convinced on
(51:31):
any I'm not convinced on Ottawa. I haven't been sold
on them all year. I don't think they I think
that fabian zelin MoU might be an interesting move for Ottawa,
but I still kind of have a feeling that the
Rangers are gonna get there find the way in that spot.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah. Like honestly, between Columbus, Ottawa, and New York, Detroit
and Montreal, I think that the best two out of
that is Ottawa and New York. And like when all
three of or all five of those teams were within
two points of each other, it's gonna be a real
dog fight heading through to the playoffs, and I would
(52:11):
think that Ottawa and the Rangers probably end up finishing
ahead of those teams, and you could end up seeing
New Jersey fall right out of it because there are
only a few points up on Columbus, so it'll be interesting.
I yeah, I think that you might see New Jersey
(52:32):
miss the playoffs in Ottawa and New York and Columbus
just shift up one.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
That's possibly. Yeah, that's a possible and that's a benefit
for the Flames because they could end up getting you
could end up well, you end up with that pick anyway,
and then you give that other pick to Montreal and
you're fine. Right, Yeah, so there you go. Anything else
did we declared You've declared Dallas the winner? I think
(52:58):
that's kind of the commonplace. You got the best player
in the draft and the available which was Eco Ranton in.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
So and you didn't really delete anything from your roster,
like Stank Cowen's a good piece, but the difference between
the two is immense. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
And then did they did sign why it Johnston to
a contract extension today too, So that's a big, big
and that guy is going to be like, that's a Frank,
that's your franchise core piece going forward that you locked up.
So and then you walk so Dallas figuring it out,
it's I you know, I.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Yeah, Dallas basically said, hey, we're here to stay for
the next half decade and we're going to be one
of the top three teams in the West. Have fun.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Yep, that's basically yeh, anything on this trade deadline that
we should discuss.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
Not really. Uh, It's just going to be interesting to
see how all the various teams respond with their new
people and how fast Boston sinks like a rock. And yeah,
I'm curious to say, like Calgary, I think out of
the teams that are in the West has the hardest
(54:13):
schedule out of the four or five teams that are
in that conversation. But yeah, we'll see. It's gonna be
very much a jump ball for everybody on both sides
of the Ledger.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yeah, I mean I think for the West, I have
leaned Saint Louis. I don't. I mean, I'm not incredibly
sold on Saint Louis. But Vancouver, for me, I think
they just if Peterson can figure this out, then they
have a chance. But it's and Nick Quinn Hughes needs
to get healthy. I just feel Saint Louis is the
(54:48):
most consistent, trustworthy team out of the four right now,
and that's why I have them there.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
But yeah, like, it would not surprise me if Utah
made it. It would not surprise me if Saint Loui
made it. Same with Calgary or Vancouver. I think all
four are pretty much on equal footing for each has
their positives, each has their negatives, and I think they're
all just right there, right next to each other.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah. Oh to two other teams that I thought did
not do very well, What are the Philadelphia Flyers thinking?
Like that is turned out like you traded Kuzmenko for
a twenty Like your flip for Frost and Ferriby was
a twenty twenty seven to third round pick in Jacob Pelcha,
(55:36):
And I think Pelchi will do bout in Philly, But
I don't think that that's enough.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
For fol No, like that that trade was highway robbery
by the Flames to get like two legit mid twenties
middle six forwards for a second round pick, a guy
that the Flames were kind of thinking of putting on
waivers as like we discussed earlier the season, and yeah,
and Peltier who passed through waivers earlier this year. Like
(56:07):
to get that for basically a second round pick, it's like, well, duh, y,
you know. But on the Philadelphia side, like unless they're
going big game hunting and like wanting to sign Mitch
Marner and actually agreeing to terms with him in the
off season, I don't see any reason this makes sense,
(56:28):
much like Buffalo trading Dylan Cousins. Frankly, like that was
sometimes you know, as Conroy said, you know, sometimes not
doing something is the better move, and Buffalo is the
prime example of, well, we just traded one of our
few good players for basically nothing, like you know, because
(56:50):
like Norris and Docker are good parts, but like they
haven't shown things consistently.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
So and Jacob Bernard Docker also was on waivers this
year and clear yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
Some mystifying things from those teams.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
But the one other team that I am just I
don't know what it was going on there? What are
the Seattle Kraken doing.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
Well? Frankly, I'm was more pleased by what they did because,
like they realize that they don't have a true game
breakers and so cashing in as many parts as they
can for picks made sense for them. They basically had
the trade deadline. I wish the Flames had where, you know,
(57:40):
trading off a few surplus pieces for you know, assets
at least would have you know. But yeah, like Seattle, frankly,
they need to be bad in order to get good,
and they like even at their best, like they're not
just not good enough.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
They've won. They beat Vancouver and Calgary the exact same
way this year. They played fifty five minutes of absolutely
god awful hockey, they played five minutes of good hockey
and found a way to win a game in overtime.
I just when I watched this team, I just find
them so pedestrian. They're just they're not interesting.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
No, man, It's one of those things that with Schwartz
and every being older, yea, like they need to move
on from them and reset, even though like they're very
good players in their own right, it's just, you know,
(58:39):
they need to get some more youth in their lineup.
And yeah, it sucks that borg Strand had to go
from their point of view because you know, he was
a key contributor for them. But the return that they got, yeah,
that made a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (58:55):
A the Yeah, they they got some good picks that
they can use and Detroit's retaining some sound callery on
that board strate deal, So that's that's good as well.
Speaker 3 (59:02):
But yeah, no, and frankly, it just makes the draft
a little bit more interesting because like there are teams
like Calgary, like Seattle who now have a dearth of
extra picks that you know, if teams are wanting to
shake things up, you know, you can actually facilitate a trade.
(59:24):
And you know, like each team will have plenty of
cap space to make things happen if teams want to
go in a different direction. So it'll be interesting to see, like,
you know, the the amount of flexibility that both Seattle
and Calgary have are imments heading into the draft after
(59:45):
this season.
Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yep, it's yeah, it's going to be, you know, whether
the Flames the playoffs or not. The offseason is probably
is going to be one of the more intriguing ones
with the stuff that they have, the cap going up,
the names that will be out there, it's you know, it's.
Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Yeah, like when you have to first a second and
a pair of thirds and a fairly stocked prospect cupboard,
like they just need some top end forward skill.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
You know. It was that wasn't me because, like I
there was the report that the Flames were going to
go in on a round and I actually wouldn't have
wanted that because I just think that's too it. Even
with the cap going up, you've got players to sign. Yeah, no,
I agree, the fourteen million dollars would be coarrangeoning.
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
No, frankly, like the Flames need to just be a
little bit more patient and actually draft and develop some people. Yeah,
because like they have hit the mark on a number
of their draft picks, and like in the various leagues,
like they're performing extremely well so and like they have
a number of guys that are looking like high quality
(01:00:58):
future nhlrs. So just gotta see whether or not you
can add via free agency or make prudent trades at
the deadline or at the draft as well. So what's
to look forward to, Just you know, wanting to not
be quite so patient with you know, turning the page
(01:01:19):
on this team though, to get to the next stages.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Fair enough, Well, tell us what's going on on fireside
Chat this weekend.
Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
We're going to be recapping the week that was after
the Montreal game and the trade deadline that did not
really materialize into anything, and discussing that and looking ahead
to the last nineteen games for the Flames and the
tough road that lead, you know, is between them and
(01:01:52):
game one of the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
So yes or yeah, we will if you have a
conversation little chat on Sunday. And they did nothing as well,
So we'll unpack that situation on Sunday, so we'll keep
an eye on that. That will be of course before
they play the Dallas Stars on They played Minnesota to
(01:02:17):
Friday night and Dallas Stars on Sunday, so they got
an interesting week ahead and then so we'll recap that.
Of course. You can where do we follow you, Matt and.
Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
At fireside chat dot ca, on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Play,
basically anywhere you can find a podcast at fireside podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Yeah with us, same thing. Facebook dot com Shifts and Pucks,
YouTube dot com Shifts and Pucks, Twitch dot com Shifts
and Pucks. Subscribe again wherever you get your audio. Thank
you for watching, Thank you for listening. We will talk
to you all very soon. Bye for now, Thanks for
coming
Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Matt yep, thank you
And I quote, I'll be there in a minute, give
me a second. Time is relative, folks, Time is relative.
So hey, cheers to everybody in the chat.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Is their a division rival? I don't care how many gets,
how many wins they get.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Screw them. That wasn't the take I was expecting to hear.
I want to gush over watching live Christianna. I think
that we completely underestimate the skill it takes to play defense.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
One highlight or several highlights does not called their trophy.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Mate.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm stepping in here on I'm going to be the
across the old man here. They need to learn patience.
They need to understand the tension thinking in the drama.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Oh dere, look at this.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
How is McDavid not getting the penalty?
Speaker 3 (01:06):
You guys need to calm down with this.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Okay, you guys need to calm down with Oh good grave.
If you were on social media for the morning here
across Western Canada, it is not calm in Flamesland. It's
even not calmer in Canucks Land. But about the lack
(01:30):
of action on both markets for the Flames and the Canucks.
We'll focus on the Flames here. Welcome to the shifts
and Pucks podcast. You can follow us on x AT
Shifts and Pucks, Facebook dot com Shifts and Pucks, YouTube
dot com Shifts and Pucks, subscribe wherever you get your audio.
As we are live about an hour in a soul,
(01:53):
a little bit after the trade deadline has hit. It
was a very interesting trade deadline for a lot of teams,
and we'll get into that, but we'll start with the
Flames and we of course we are joined today by
Matt Duborg from fireside Chat. How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh? Pretty good. My second favorite team made a really
great trade getting Brad marchand today so I'm looking forward
to the ratline of Bennett Kachuck and Marshand heading on
to the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So last week, if those for those that watch wrestling,
John Cena turns heel. He turns his back on the fans.
After twenty years being a face, Brad marchand after all
these years being in Boston, bruin and by the way,
almost knocking out the Florida Panthers in the first round
of the playoffs a couple of years ago, is now
(02:52):
a Florida Panther. Now this is the year of the Heel.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah, and it was an excellent trade by the Panthers left,
you know, perfect fit for both their need and the
player that they got.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Well, you know what's actually I think before we get
into the finals, I think what is absolutely fascinating about
what happened there is it really felt like Vegas was
going to get Marsha. Yeah, like I think Florida kind
of swooped into the last minute and did the Vegas.
So that Florida Tampa series. If whenever Florida and Tampa play,
(03:28):
good grief, that's going to be fun to watch.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, I know. It seems like both in the West
and the East. The conference finals will be starting in
the first round with Dallas likely facing Colorado ye and
Tampa likely facing Florida, and well remember wins those series.
I think we'll probably end up going all the way
to the finals.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah. The only counter argument that I would have to
that is if it gets if you get too beat
up because of those intense series. So yeah, but that
will be interesting. But let's focus on the Flames trade deadline.
Coming into this trade deadline, they come off this this
the toughest road trip of the year, longest road trip
(04:12):
of the year. Some have called it the Gauntlet, and
they kind of survived. I think they kind of I'm
gonna say they kind of survived the gauntlet.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
They well, yeah, like to me, like the five good teams,
they went one in four, So like, yes, they got
some loser points in two of those games, but realistically,
like they didn't really do all that great.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Well, what I was, what I was gonna say is
they played a pretty solid game against Washington. They played
a pretty solid game against Tampa. They did not play
a solid game against Florida. They were okay against Carolina.
They got some poor goaltending against Philadelphia. I think I
was a little bit like I think their best effort
(04:58):
was the Dallas Star game. But what I will also say,
I think it was also the most disappointing because you
did have a two nothing lead and you know, you
came away with the point. But it would have been nice.
I would have been happier with the three and whatever
it would have been. Yeah, yeah, three two and one.
I would have been more preferable than the two, two
(05:19):
and two. But they got six points. There is the
loser point. Whatever we think about that. That's the rules
that they have and they are in a playoff spot
and the Flames we're gonna and I know you and
I are going to disagree on this, so and I
think I'm looking forward to this because I think we're
not having this discussion in Flamesland. It's either one way
or the other. So yeah, but kind of the Flames
(05:45):
ended up doing nothing at the trade deadline, no trades.
Craig Conroy did what in his interview said he was
trying to do some retention spot deals for third party
retention and the only options really that were available to
him were who year retentions. So and I know that
this was something that I was hoping, hoping the Flames
(06:06):
would do, as you would either make a I'm not
wasn't on the buy sell train. I was on the
hockey trade ch hockey trade part if you can, if
you cannot, let's see if we can do some third
party retention. And it wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, Like the only kind of trade that was like
that was the Shaye Weber from Utah to Chicago trade,
just so it can help the Blackhawks reach the cap
floor next year. Yeah, and even then, you know that
the different set of circumstances entirely than where the Flames
(06:41):
are at right exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So most there's most of the social media is kind
of on the Flame side anyway, is a little upset
they didn't do anything. Let I'll hear from you first.
Let's let's hear where you're at.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Yeah, Well, to me, like paying some of the price
tags that you saw with various players, like say that
Dylan Cousins trade would have been foolish from the Flames
point of view, like there's no need right now to
flesh out this team with nhlrs that are kind of
(07:21):
struggling at the NHL level like Cousins. Is when you
can still use those assets in either trade for somebody
else of the draft or utilize those draft picks. With
the Flames track record of actually making some pretty astute
selections over the last number of years, having more shots
in the gun makes a lot more sense than you know,
(07:44):
hoping for a bounce back from a guy that's playing
in a bad team.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, that Ottawa Buffalo trade, I don't know where I'm
at with that because it feels like like Buffalo picks
up a player that is often injured in Josh Norris,
Jacob Bernard. Docker that's an interesting pickup for Buffalo. Because
he's a he was a top five pick, not a
top ten pick, a top five pick. And the Senators
(08:12):
bring back Dennis Gilbert, former Flame, one of three former
Flames that were traded on this trade deadline. By the way,
I'm not sure what to make of that trade. I
don't know if Ottawa improved, and I don't know if
Buffalo improved. I feel like this is project for project, and.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, shuffling the deck chairs more or less.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, And I heard you last week on fireside chat.
You were talking about you didn't see that Dylan Cousins
is a fit with Calgary, and I agree with you,
there's there wasn't really a trade fit with Dylan Cousins
of no.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And like realistically, like Calgary would have had to have
traded like Connor Zori plus you know, something one of
like our premium prospects or draft picks just to get Cousins.
And like the difference between zar Ian Cousins, in my mind,
is not that much to where it would make sense
(09:05):
to pull that kind of trade. And I like Ottawa
getting rid of Norris in that deal, like it at least,
you know, like he's injured a lot, and so like
removing that question mark of is this player going to
play in our lineup at all? Like you are getting
a surefire NHL center out of it, So it makes
(09:28):
a little bit more sense from their point of view.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, and Ottawa wanted to get a little bit tougher
and meaner and all of that sort of stuff, and
they feel like Dylan Cousins can give them that and
get his Gilbert adds some depth, and I just I
don't think that you're trading Connor's area at this point.
I mean, I think that the guy is possible future
captain with the team, and so I don't see that happening.
(09:53):
So yeah, I mean, and then I guess kind of
victation was as the course you had the unrestricted free
agents of Joe Hanley, Dan Vloodar, and then there's sort
of the expectation of trading the the Jake, Jake Beans,
Demitri Daniel, Deno merrimounta party, and then of course you
(10:15):
got the big the big Fish, the Cadres, the Anderson's
and the Colmans and the Craig Conray. I think has
been very clear of what's happening with with all of
those guys. They weren't going to trade Rasmus Anderson until
they could start negotiating with him on July first. So
that's an off season or next season conversation. Nazen Cagri
is on a no move situation, so and and you
(10:40):
whether okay and Matt it's this is the reality of
the situation is. I'm here in Richmond and close to Vancouver.
There was a party. The Vancouver Canucks invited the Calgary Flames,
Utah Hockey Club, Saint Louis Blues, and even a little
for a little time, the Anaheim Ducks. They invited him
to the party. They went to sleep and thinking that
(11:02):
all of these guys would leave the party, and instead
the Flames took over the bedroom. The Saint Louis Blues
are in the kitchen, the Anaheim Ducks are sitting in
the living room, and the Utah Hockey Club, the Utah
Hockey Club is hanging out at the patio. The Flames.
I think everybody agrees that the Flames are not a
good enough team to be in the playoffs, but the
reality is is that they are in the playoffs. And
(11:24):
I don't think that you can sue a sell off
at with this team, especially when you've got to negotiate
a contract. Whether you agree that you should keep Rasmus
Anderson or not. You don't want to make this easier.
You don't want to make this an easier decision for him.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Well, and the thing that like where I like, I
feel Calgary kind of struggled on the day and like
I would give them probably a D on the day
or less. It would have only been an F if
they had spent some of the prices to add. Yeah,
you know, it's one of those where like realistically, like say,
(12:05):
like with the Fairbe Frost trade, you've more or less
replaced what Cadre and Coleman bring to this team is
in terms of a second line caliber center and like
middle six winger that are in your age group, and
like heading into next season, like the Flames now have
(12:29):
you know, like the only spot that's going to be
opened up through expiring contracts is Kevin Rooney's spot, So
you're going to have to.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And they got heat. I know.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
I'm just talking the forwards specifically, where like in order
to open up spots to say sign a free agent
or you know, open up a spot for Hansig or Stromgren,
who are both knocking on the door, you have to
move some bodies out, and like this is where like
(13:05):
I feel that they it was a lost opportunity because
of the fact that you kind of managed to replace
those two guys already internally with the Frost trade, that
why not go that extra step and cash out those
assets and you know you can revisit or you know,
(13:26):
even pull a trade similar to the JT. Miller trade
where you get assets in and then immediately flip it
for something else. And it's one of those where like
a it's lack of moves like this, where like if
you were to ask me, like why Calgary is perpetually
(13:46):
in the middle of the NHL, this is it Like
like the Flames are dead last in the NHL heading
into the Dallas game for goals in the NHL, Like
they were literally tied going into that game with the
Anaheim Ducks with like one hundred and sixty two goals
in sixty one games. Like that's not a good showing
(14:09):
at all. And it's not like, oh, well, we need
these guys to dig in, like everybody is giving one
hundred percent. This is what we've got. We've got the
worst offense in the NHL, and like, granted, the Western
Conference has seven good teams in it, and then you know,
(14:29):
as you alluded to, with the Canucks, Flames, Ducks, Utah,
and the Blues all being you know, basically who's the
least bad of that group, Like Calgary I feel could
have pushed their build and retool efforts ahead had they
(14:50):
moved ahead with cashing out Kaudre and Coleman's assets and
perhaps utilizing them in a different way way, And especially
with the high price bags that were. You know, like
we saw brock Nelson what he got, Like Cadre, you
probably get the same return and it's as frustrating to
(15:12):
see some of those returns when you know, like realistically,
I don't think Calgary makes the playoffs anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Well, this is why I disagree with you, is because
I don't think the most of those picks, most of
those trades were draft picks. The Flame have draft picks, right,
The Flames have a ton of draft picks for the
next three years. So what are you what do you
need another draft pick for? If anything, if there was
and you probably honestly, the Nazen Kadri trade to Colorado
(15:43):
happens if the Flames are six points out of the
playoffs that happens, and it's likely that Callum Richie return
that the Islanders got for brock Nelson probably happens for
the Flames. But they're in the play Like the dilemma
is is they're actually in a playoff spot. And I
understand a lot of people are talking about what they're
gonna get caked by Winnipeg. I think that there's and
(16:05):
you're right, I actually agree with you. They're not. I
don't see them making the playoffs, but I see the
value in trying for this team to get the experience
to learn how to get into the playoffs. I still
think that there's a value in that. I know that
everybody wants these top ten picks, and I think that
this has been a whole discussion around the top ten
(16:27):
pick this draft is basically it's not a good draft.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
And I don't like, realistically, yeah, like realistically, the guy
that you pick at, say ten, and the guy that's
at like eighteen to twenty is not going to be
a huge step down from one another this year.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
No, and you know what, nobody's talking about this, but
Ryan Pike brought this up, and I need to bring
this up. Again, the twenty twenty six pick with Montreal
is only the first selection protected, So if the Flames
do not give up this twenty twenty five pick, it
is basically unprotected next year in twenty twenty six. Yeah,
(17:06):
so you might as well get rid of this pick
now and get this out of the way. Like again,
it's the I just I guess I look at this
as that there's value in experience even if you don't
make him, like make it him, even if you Dustin
Wolf can learn something from it, even if he doesn't
(17:27):
get in you know, like, oh no, I get that.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah. And it's one of those things where like the
silver lining to this is that, like all of those
guys are under contract after this season, and you can
still trade them at the draft, much like Jacob Marx
from UH and like the trade rumors to New Jersey
at the deadline and then it getting done on Draft
Day instead. And you know, like, would I be shocked
(17:56):
if the Flames made those moves on the day before
the draft? No, And you know, and it's just one
of those things where you know, like I'm looking ahead,
like it's hard to envision, like a shoe does have
to drop with the forward ranks, even if you're wanting
(18:18):
to keep most of the guy the veteran guys intact,
just because you know, like Stromgren is not very far
off at being an NHL player. He's been excellent last
couple of months. Hanzig looked fantastic in the preseason, played
well when he was here, and has actually been really
good on the Wranglers as well. So I think so
(18:44):
he either was recently or is now not that I'm
not really one hundred percent sure at this second.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
But the.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Thing is is that like if the Flames want to
use the seventeen million dollars that they have in cap
space on free agency, like you need to actually have
some spots to actually put those people, because like it's
hard to convince you know, insert random free agent guy
here that well, hey, you know, welcome to the Flames
(19:17):
third line. Like, you know, it's just hard at this
point because of the fact there's no room.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
My counter to that, like, I see what you're saying,
but my counter that too is getting this Reinler team
through a good playoff run I think can help the
Flames going forward because they're gonna learn about that is,
they're gonna learn what it takes to go through the
playoffs as well, so we can see a better William Stomgren.
We could see a better Samuel Hansig.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And I mean if it just felt like there was
a lot of draft picks that were being tossed around
and I don't like, again, if there were players, if
Logan Steinghoven was available for the Flames, you make that trade.
I think that that's something I would have considered for
the Flames. But I just don't think they need draft picks.
Those are eighteen nineteen.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
No, and yeah, like yeah, like realistically, like what I
was kind of envisioning, like say, like the Flames got
a first round pick for Cadre just flat. He probably
would have returned a prospect or two, but just say
it was just the first round pick, like I would
envision like using that capital to then you know, go
(20:31):
into buyer mode at the trade deadline as well, and
then you know like have your pick of you know,
insert player that was traded today instead that kind of thing. Yeah,
maybe like more or less like shifting like the asset
from being a thirty for four year old center to
you know, somebody that fits your timeline a little better
(20:53):
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah, it's I think that they where I don't think
that they were in a rock in a hard place.
I don't will say that, but I think Conray has
been focused pretty much on this is kind of the plan.
They weren't going to be they said, excuse me, they
weren't going to be in the rental market. They weren't
going to be in the seller market. And to move
(21:16):
to the defensive part of this, well, I just I
want to stay in the forward part for a second.
They're getting and one of the things that Conray did
say today was they're just getting Frost and Farrabee kind
of acclimatized to the Flames. If Farrabe scored a hell
of a goal against Dallas, that was a hell of
a goal. I think eventually, I think Morgan Frost is
(21:38):
eventually going to take Michael Backland minutes like that's how
That's what I see there. I it would have been
nice to find a fourth line. I think everybody's been
wanting a fourth line center better than Kevin Riney. The
reality is is.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Well, yeah, like realistically, moving forward, the replacement for Kevin
Rooney on the fourth line is Michael Backland and you know,
like next season, like realistically, the Flames need to get
it at one or two CE and have Frost as
your third line center and backline as your fourth line,
(22:17):
especially if you're keeping Kudre heading into next year, and
it's gonna be a little bit of a challenge for
the team. But I think, like especially in free agency,
like throwing everything at a center that's of some quality
is priority number one, two, three, and four.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, they still I would argue, they still need two centers.
I agree, you would like to get one right shot.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So and I think realistically in the draft, like frankly,
with the Flames having several picks in the top three rounds,
I would be shocked if less than half of them
were right shot centers, Like you know, if there's anybody
in that range that makes sense. Yeah, I think that
(23:05):
that's how it's gonna And I won't.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Be surprised if they try to trade for one with
use some of that draft capital to get a Yeah,
I wouldn't. Like I'm thinking a guy like Kirby Doc
might be an interest, I mean often injured, but a
a guide that they look at as an example, uh defense.
And I also think like they also they still need
(23:31):
to Like you mentioned it, it's it's hard not to
argue the offensive side. They still need some offensive talent
to find overall that is, and in terms of forwards
as well. So that's still a work in progress. Let
me let me toss some I think some people have
suggested this is not going to happen. This has been
(23:53):
kind of a tough year for you, your sharing Govic.
I would I think he's been hurt for a lot
longer than I think he's cared to admit. I think
the end of the season conference is going to tell
us that, and especially last night, I mean he really struggled.
It struggled in his own end. Is that a possible
trade trip?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
No, just the term left on it with four years
of five million, like you're going to have to eat
at least one more year to see And you know, honestly,
Sharon Govic in the preseason was Sharon Govic of last year.
And then he got hurt right off the bat. And
every player that I've ever seen get hurt that misses
(24:37):
like a month of the season always has a terrible
year and then bounces back to being the same player
they were the following year because more or less, like
all the players train hard to get into NHL shape
for the start of the season, and then because you're injured,
you basically lose all of that conditioning and waffle. Like
(25:00):
I remember there was one season that Michael Backlan strained
like an ab muscle and missed like the first month,
and he was absolutely terrible that season, and yet like
the ten plus years since, like he's been the mister consistent.
So I'm not concerned about Sharon Govic. I think he'll
have a good bounce back year next year. It's just
(25:24):
unfortunate timing and luck for the type of injury that
he got and the duration of it.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, I can see that for sure. Defensively, I think
there was a hope, There was an expectation I think
for a lot of people to see Joel Hanley UFA
move didn't happen. I think there's two ways to look
at this, Uh, Joel Hanley. I think that if there,
if it's the white plight price, the Flames will probably
(25:54):
consider it resigning him. But the thing is, like I'm
not saying it Joel Hanley is I want to be clear,
I don't think Joel Hanley is a top four defenseman,
but unfortunately this year. The problem is he's been the
best defense partner for Mackenzie Wager this year.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah no, And like, realistically, if the Flames sort of
dealt him today, like they would have got maybe a
seventh round draft pick, which does not move the needle.
It would be like training Vlador for a fourth or
a fifth. That's like, or we could just keep our
backup goaltender, like you know, And yeah, like that is
definitely a position that this team needs to address heading
(26:34):
into the offseason, getting a full time equalish talent player
to play with Wiger. I know that Zane Perrek is
likely going to be in the NHL next year based
off of him utterly demolishing the OHL again, so you
(26:54):
might see him getting promoted to play with Wiger. We'll see.
But yeah, they definitely do need to do something with
that spot.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I know that. Everybody I'm not saying don't get
excited about his name, correct, But I will also say
I wish there was an AHL option for him for Yeah, Like,
I think that that has to be fixed because he
probably it would not hurt him to play a little
bit of time at AHL. Just to get acclimatized and
(27:26):
then bring him back to d NHL if you have
that option.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Yeah, well, like he's literally the first defenseman in the
OHL since Bobby Or to score back to back thirty
goal seasons as a defenseman. So like, that's absolutely fantastic.
And he probably goes second or third overall if they
do a redraft from last year. So the Flames definitely
(27:50):
hit a home run on that pick. It's just hoping
that he can get a little bit of experience with
something more, as you said, either a run to the
Memorial Cup or uh, you know, maybe some HL playoff time.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah for sure. Uh yeah, so that's the and then
Vloodar there was the other option here, and I think
just you know, again, it's kind of like Handley, you're not.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Well, and if Devin Cooley was playing well, then I
think that they might have just to see what Koley
would bring. But he has been a disaster since he
returned from injury. The Wranglers, I do believe, have only
won one of their last eleven games due to both
(28:39):
Ignatiev and him playing terribly. So yeah, it's kind of
tough for to move Ladar unless you're getting a goalie
in return, and you know how many situations are there
where that even makes sense, Like the only one I
could think of would be to like have a trade
(29:00):
where chet Pickard comes back, uh, sending Blodar to Edmonton
and who wants to help them out?
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, well, well the Wranglers sit third in there in
the Pacific Division, and so with sixty six points. I
think the one thing I do admit I was kind
of surprised in last year they did find some help
for the Wranglers this year they did not. Yeah that
that's a bit a bit of a disappointment for me
(29:30):
that they didn't do that.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, because frankly, like the Wranglers probably could have used
another depth forward or two, sort of like the trading
Pederson for Danny Anne. I do believe it was yeah,
that kind of thing, but uh, that didn't materialize. And yeah,
(29:52):
and honestly, with how the Wranglers have been playing of late,
like they're in danger of making the missing the playoffs
altogether there as well, like especially if this streak of
poor play continues for very much longer.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, now the retention spot, which I think, like I do,
I do agree with Conry that you couldn't do a
two year one.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Like it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
No, Yeah, so I think, and you have one because
you're still retaining a mark Strom. I think that. I
think the other thing that I wonder that they're thinking
a little bit about is if you end up trading
Cadri or Coleman, there might be a salary retention that
might have to happen in one of those trades that.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
They could well and even conceivably like it might potentially
be possible to trade Huberdough if you eat some of
that too, like especially with his good season, ye because
you know, like say, huber do at eight million dollars
is not out of line for you know, like a
whole bunch of teams. So we'll see. And it's just
(31:01):
I do believe it's a good idea to have those
retention spots open for the time being until you can
either move on from assets like Kaudrey or huber Doh
or you know, leave yourself the same flexibility at the
trade deadline next year.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's basically it. With the Flames, I
think with the Flames, I think I think a lot
of this is will get We'll go through this playoff
battle for the last twenty games. They could end up
in the playoffs, they could end up missing the playoffs,
but there's also a possibility they end up in the
top ten as well. There.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Yeah, there are only actually four points up on tenth.
So it's in like with twelve of their games remaining
being against teams that are either elite or you know,
right in the same pack that they are fighting for
their playoff lives. Like, that's a good chunk of the
remaining schedule and it won't be easy for the Flames
(32:04):
to maintain a pace that they have to this point,
so you know, like it they're to me, like, honestly,
it's flip a coin. They could end up in the
playoffs or they could be a top ten team and
could go either way.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot to wait for with the Flames,
for sure.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
One minor thing that I wanted to add is that
the Flames having New Jersey's pick with Jack Hughes being out, Like,
if the Flames do end up losing their first round pick,
they might end up having one that's right in the
same zone anyway because of that, So.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, exactly, and you usually really didn't do anything.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
No, they flushed out some depth, but you know, that's
that's about it.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, okay, So let's go around the league here and
kind of go through a couple of few interesting things. Actually,
let's kind of stay here a little bit on the
Flame side, just because there were three former Flames that
did move. Dennis Gilbert we talked about move from Buffalo
to Ottawa. Andre Kuzmenko, who was just traded to the Flyers.
(33:15):
It's part of that Frost Farrab Pilche trade. Has was
traded to the Kings. Kings do need some scoring, it's
just not andre Kuzmenko. But that's okay.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
Well, to be fair to Kouzzi, he has been better
since the start of the calendar year and a viable
second third line scorer for a team needing somebody who
might potentially put the puck in the net. Would not
be my first choice, but for the price that La paid,
that was worth it for them.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
And then the other one was Oliver Shillington, who got
moved not once but twice. He gets moved to the
Islanders as part of the brock Nelson deal and then
he gets moved to Anaheim for Dan's favorite player future
considerations kind of, I sort of. I think Oliver Shillington
ended up getting some bad advice from somebody or decided
(34:09):
some things that probably at the end he regrets.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Well and realistically, like if he had been here since
the start of the year instead of in Colorado, he
probably has played sixty games this year.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, he would have been a really good partner for
we year.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah probably, Yeah, he would have at least got the
same shot that Barry and Hanley and Bean have had.
And you know, to Bean's credit, he has come out
as a fairly good third bearing defenseman. But you know,
like there was an opportunity for Shillington to potentially be
(34:49):
a top four defenseman on this team. And and said
he's now in his third fourth organization in the calendar year.
And yeah, not the best decision that he he made,
but yeah, the Klingberg also left sixty million dollars on
the table, So sometimes things go drastically wrong for you
(35:09):
as well.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, and then so let's start with the playoff grouping here.
So it's actually interesting Saint Louis didn't add anything, Vancouver
doesn't make a move, and Utah makes the salary dump
or the give Chicago legendary, legendary Arizona Coyote Shay Weber
to Chicago. But so really nobody does anything in that
(35:35):
in that battle for that final playoff spot anyways.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, Like, realistically, Vancouver basically sold off Sussi for a
third round pick a couple of days ago. Yeah, and
that was the only trade that anybody made from that
group that actually impacted the NHL team.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah, we saw the Vegas tweet. They said hi, and
then they did nothing, which is very in Vegas.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Well, realistically, they've already traded their first round picks from
last year and uh this year and next year, so
they don't really have a ton of things to chips
to play with right at the moment. So yeah, sucks
to be them. Oh wait, like they already have most
(36:24):
of their key guys locked up forever anyway.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, and they're getting Shayodoor back here before the playoffs.
So that's that. That's will be that trade deadline ad.
They're they're gonna They've had a full season with Tomas Hurtle,
They're gonna be fine.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I think a massive I think the I would put
in the top two of the losers of this trade
deadline week is the Edmonton Oilers, And maybe I have
some bias against the Eulers, but I don't understand what
you You acquired a player that is injured that you're
(37:02):
you got for two that you're not going to play
for two weeks in Trent Frederick. You aren't able to
get a trade of Ander Kaine, which I think is
a massive error. I and Matt naked Victor Arvidson a
no movement clause.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Yeah, and then I know that I know the whole
offseason and through the trade deadline has been just one
bungled thing after another, like spending the money on Arvidson
and Skinner that should have gone to bro Berg and Holloway.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Then you have you only get a second and a
third round pick for those two good young players who
go on to be fairly decent pieces for Saint Louis.
Then you have to spend a first round pick, the
second and third that you just got, plus more things
to get Walman and Frederick, who are not as good
(38:01):
as Holloway or bro Burg. Like it's like, what the
hell are you thinking? Like you know, it's just mystifying,
like it you could have just not shot yourself in
the foot and just paid those two players, and like
they wanted to be oilers and you know, like it
(38:22):
would have been better, you know, like, hey, we actually
have some homegrown talent on our team and instead, you know,
insert thirty three year old plus guys and then having
to backfill and basically get lesser versions of the guys
they gave up, Like it just does not make any
(38:43):
sense to me.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
No, No, they're off season two nowadays. Has not made
any sense at all.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Well, and then like on top of it, like not
figuring out how to get a goaltender. Yeah, like how
many would rate it at the deadline and none of
them went to Edmonton. Yeah, Like no offense to Skinner
or Pickard. Neither one of them is a starting goalie
in the NHL. And like when Vladar, who's an average backup,
(39:13):
would have been a significant improvement to their goaltending, Like
they could have got anybody, and I think it would
have been a boost for them, And like heading into
the playoffs, like especially if they lose, which you know,
if they face a team like Colorado or Dallas, they're
(39:33):
going to lose, Like you know, that's almost a fireable
offense for their general manager, just the overall in competent
moves from the start of last offseason until now.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, I mean part of the problem is is it
was in Bowman that made those moves. It was Jeff Jackson, right,
so yeah, who took over for Ken Holland briefly, they're like,
can we everybody's talking about how incompetent the Flames offense is.
Whyan Nugent Hopkins has thirty eight points, that is less.
(40:10):
Connor McDavid has seventy nine. That's even less than half.
So that's not even Like if there wasn't a dry
title in a McDavid on this Oilers team.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
They'd be down. They'd be in that conversation with Chicago
and San Jose like they're not a good team.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
And I I don't know, I'm partly I do believe
the Oilers can beat the Kings in the first round.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
But I'm I'm beginning to question that even you know,
just the overall depth of the Kings, you know, and
Kemper is a better goal Reddick is a better goalie
than what the other two guys have been this season,
and you know, like LA's depth is better than Edmonton's,
(40:58):
and like unless McDavid and dry style steal the show,
which they can, like and they can beat the Kings,
but like if they run into any of the good teams,
whether it's Winnipeg, Dallas or Colorado or even Vegas, Like,
(41:19):
I do not see a realistic way that the Oilers
win that series. Like it's just you know, especially with
Dallas getting Miko Ranton and like one step away from
saying you can lock the West up. Dallas is going
to the finals, you know, and it'll be either Dallas
(41:43):
or Colorado at this point, just based on like the
makeups of each of the teams, And like, I just
do not see how, you know, unless you know, you
get all of the horseshoes that you know, a team
like Edmonton gets past any of those good teams, and yeah,
(42:05):
like it'd be basically like saying to me, like, oh,
the Calgary Flames are going to come out of the
Western Conference this year.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
It's like no, nobody's saying, yeah, let's get to the
Central Because I think that this becomes interesting. I think
that there's a lot of people that are gonna be
favoring Dallas. The one thing that concerns me is that
right side of that blue line has Cody cc who
(42:34):
is okay, Matt Dumba who is okay. But they never
they never got to address that right side of the
blue line. Thomas Harley. I mean, Thomas Harley was great
in the Four Nations. We know what Miro Heightst can
can do if he's healthy. That the so the left
side is good. The right side concerns me. That forward
group though, I mean with Mikol Branton and it does
(42:55):
add into dimension. I mean, they are going to be
there's no question that the Dallas Stars are going to
be very, very tough. It's just it's that Colorado Dallas
series is going to be a battle.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see. Like, you know,
if I'm Colorado, I'm gonna try to like hold back
a bit and you know, get one of the wild
card spots, so you face Vegas in the first round
and go through our division instead, because that's a lot
easier of a road than going through Dallas and then
Winnipeg and then you know Vegas probably at the end.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Yeah, Colorado did all season has made I mean they
reshifted to their goal attending from Gorgiev and I mean
they brought in Mackenzie Blackwood's Scott Wedgwood they brought in.
I mean, they revamped their forward group by trading Miko
rant In for Martin Acass and Jack Drury, and then
(43:54):
they traded Casey Middlestaff for Charlie Coyle and then they
bring in Brock Nelson. They basically did an off seas
in the moves during the season, which.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Is rebuild the team on the fly.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Basically, that was literally they got on the fly. They
did that, so it's interesting to see what the chemistry
on that team is going to work or not.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
But I mean, yeah, like either they hit a home
run Grand Slam or you know, things will go off
the rails a bit heading into the playoffs because it
usually does take guys a little bit of time to
figure out new teams, although Natus really didn't take very
long at all.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
There was a lot of people talking about how overrated
Martin Nycast was and I'm like, Nope, that guy's not
overrated at all. He is a damn good player and
a damn good fit in Colorado.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
And yeah, so yeah, like who knew trading Ranton in
for some younger player would actually met you a better result.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
That was quite a Gamble by both Tulsky and McFarlane,
and it's kind of working out for Colorado. It's going
to be interesting to see what happens with Carolina. I
want to touch on Winnipeg though, before we get to
the East, because I am not sold on this team,
to be honest, I think they.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Never They've never actually figured out how to actually win
in the playoffs, and like they were consistently an elite team,
but they don't have like those players that just know
how to win in the playoffs, and like speaking of
Brad Marshan from earlier, like that should have been more
(45:34):
the type of player that they went for, somebody who's
actually been there and done it properly and has that
edge to his game, where you know guys that are
more passenger types like on a hand and to Folly
and even Paul Stastny when they got him, Like none
of those guys have like dragged their team anywhere. And yeah,
(45:58):
like as good as like got acquisitions like Tanev were like,
that's not going to really move the needle for you
very much.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, it's and I think that that's part of the problem.
I I think their power play has carried them a
lot we cheat. We see different rules in the playoffs,
and I'm not If Calgary gets in, I don't think
they'd beat Winnipeg. If Utah gets in, I don't think
they beat Winnipeg, But I do think Saint Louis and
Vancouver have more than a puncher's chance of beating Winnipeg
(46:26):
in the first round.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Honestly, you know, health healthy, Honestly with the Flames, how
they've fared with the Jets in the regular season thus far, Honestly,
I would do that as more of a toss up
than I would Flames versus any of the other playoff teams.
And like I would not expect the Flames to win
(46:51):
that series, but it would be a lot closer than
you know, like if the Flames they played Dallas or
Colorado in the first round, I think that those will
be more or less four games and have fun. But
you know, like I think the Flames, even Utah could
give Winnipega run for their money. I don't think they.
(47:11):
I don't think any of the four teams actually beat
the Jets, but it wouldn't shock me if any of
them did.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's where we're at with the West
it's we've got like we had the arms race of there,
and then the arms race in Florida, which, good grief,
you've got Yanni Gordon all over bork stride in Tampa.
Then Florida they get Sata Jones. Last week they get
(47:41):
and then they bring in Nico Sturham, with good fourth
line center, and then they bring in Brad Marshall. Like
good that that that series is just a ball of
hate all over the place.
Speaker 3 (47:53):
And yeah, I'm kind of hoping that Toronto drops down
a spot so that way, like those two teams have
a proper run up to facing each other instead of
like that being the first round matchup, because that will
be the series in the East. Yeah, Like I truly
feel that whoever wins that series wins the Cup from
(48:15):
the or goes to the Cup from the East, and probably,
you know, unless Dallas or Colorado is in the finals
from the West, I think that the East wins this year.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
Fair. Yeah, So and then you got Tampa Toronto they
bring in Scott Lawton, which is a good third line piece.
Brandon Carlo there was some word he was sort of
in the calorie conversation. I said that I would listen
to Brent about Brandon Carlo, But ultimately, I don't think
you're giving up a prospect like Fraser Mitten for Brandon Carlow.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
No, And again, the only way that Carlo made sense
to me is if you were going to play shuffle
the deck chairs where you trade out Anderson. Yeah, and
then you use part of those piece is to get
Carlow or some variation or like say you trade New
Jersey or Florida's first round pick, and you know you
do the swap that way. But yeah, like the what
(49:12):
the Leafs paid, you know, all the power to them,
like that they needed to, frankly, and that does make
Toronto a better team and you know, slightly more of
a chance that they might actually go somewhere in the
playoffs this year, but it's not going to be easy
for them. And you know, with Tampa and Florida both
(49:35):
stocking up, like that's each of the series, Like, no
matter what the matchups are, like, that's going to be
the most fun out of the Eastern Conference, and the
rest of them don't seem overly interesting by comparison.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, it's well, yeah, Washington, who didn't do it, also
didn't do anything on this trade deadline day and sit
in second overall, first in the East. So we've got
they got that, and then you've got Carolina, who I
think is I mean, we'll see what happens here. I mean,
(50:14):
they take that. I don't blame Rik Tulsky for taking
the run. I don't know if they're a strong enough
team to beat Washington. Probably they can beat New Jersey.
But you know who's four points behind New Jersey, Matt
the New York Rangers. The Columbus Blue Jackets. Oh yeah,
I am.
Speaker 3 (50:36):
I wouldn't sleep on the Blue Jackets.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
No, I would not either. I would not either they
are able to score.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Yeah, and honestly, it'll be interesting, like if Columbus is
able to pass New Jersey, and especially with Hughes being out,
you know, a matchup between Carolina and Columbus would I
think would be fun because you have a freewheeling offense
and Columbus versus the staunch defense of Carolina. It would
(51:04):
be an interesting matchup to see who could actually come
out on top of that.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, that's that's for sure. And then you've gotten in
the other wildcard spot Ottawa and renting the Rangers. Detroit's
one point behind. Montreal is hanging around, and then you
got Boston, who basically sold the farm there out of this,
and the I think from Boston down as there, I
think they're out. Oh yeah, I'm still not convinced on
(51:31):
any I'm not convinced on Ottawa. I haven't been sold
on them all year. I don't think they I think
that fabian zelin MoU might be an interesting move for Ottawa,
but I still kind of have a feeling that the
Rangers are gonna get there find the way in that spot.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Yeah. Like honestly, between Columbus, Ottawa, and New York, Detroit
and Montreal, I think that the best two out of
that is Ottawa and New York. And like when all
three of or all five of those teams were within
two points of each other, it's gonna be a real
dog fight heading through to the playoffs, and I would
(52:11):
think that Ottawa and the Rangers probably end up finishing
ahead of those teams, and you could end up seeing
New Jersey fall right out of it because there are
only a few points up on Columbus, so it'll be interesting.
I yeah, I think that you might see New Jersey
(52:32):
miss the playoffs in Ottawa and New York and Columbus
just shift up one.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
That's possibly. Yeah, that's a possible and that's a benefit
for the Flames because they could end up getting you
could end up well, you end up with that pick anyway,
and then you give that other pick to Montreal and
you're fine. Right, Yeah, so there you go. Anything else
did we declared You've declared Dallas the winner? I think
(52:58):
that's kind of the commonplace. You got the best player
in the draft and the available which was Eco Ranton in.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
So and you didn't really delete anything from your roster,
like Stank Cowen's a good piece, but the difference between
the two is immense. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
And then did they did sign why it Johnston to
a contract extension today too, So that's a big, big
and that guy is going to be like, that's a Frank,
that's your franchise core piece going forward that you locked up.
So and then you walk so Dallas figuring it out,
it's I you know, I.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
Yeah, Dallas basically said, hey, we're here to stay for
the next half decade and we're going to be one
of the top three teams in the West. Have fun.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Yep, that's basically yeh, anything on this trade deadline that
we should discuss.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
Not really. Uh, It's just going to be interesting to
see how all the various teams respond with their new
people and how fast Boston sinks like a rock. And yeah,
I'm curious to say, like Calgary, I think out of
the teams that are in the West has the hardest
(54:13):
schedule out of the four or five teams that are
in that conversation. But yeah, we'll see. It's gonna be
very much a jump ball for everybody on both sides
of the Ledger.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yeah, I mean I think for the West, I have
leaned Saint Louis. I don't. I mean, I'm not incredibly
sold on Saint Louis. But Vancouver, for me, I think
they just if Peterson can figure this out, then they
have a chance. But it's and Nick Quinn Hughes needs
to get healthy. I just feel Saint Louis is the
(54:48):
most consistent, trustworthy team out of the four right now,
and that's why I have them there.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
But yeah, like, it would not surprise me if Utah
made it. It would not surprise me if Saint Loui
made it. Same with Calgary or Vancouver. I think all
four are pretty much on equal footing for each has
their positives, each has their negatives, and I think they're
all just right there, right next to each other.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah. Oh to two other teams that I thought did
not do very well, What are the Philadelphia Flyers thinking?
Like that is turned out like you traded Kuzmenko for
a twenty Like your flip for Frost and Ferriby was
a twenty twenty seven to third round pick in Jacob Pelcha,
(55:36):
And I think Pelchi will do bout in Philly, But
I don't think that that's enough.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
For fol No, like that that trade was highway robbery
by the Flames to get like two legit mid twenties
middle six forwards for a second round pick, a guy
that the Flames were kind of thinking of putting on
waivers as like we discussed earlier the season, and yeah,
and Peltier who passed through waivers earlier this year. Like
(56:07):
to get that for basically a second round pick, it's like, well, duh, y,
you know. But on the Philadelphia side, like unless they're
going big game hunting and like wanting to sign Mitch
Marner and actually agreeing to terms with him in the
off season, I don't see any reason this makes sense,
(56:28):
much like Buffalo trading Dylan Cousins. Frankly, like that was
sometimes you know, as Conroy said, you know, sometimes not
doing something is the better move, and Buffalo is the
prime example of, well, we just traded one of our
few good players for basically nothing, like you know, because
(56:50):
like Norris and Docker are good parts, but like they
haven't shown things consistently.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
So and Jacob Bernard Docker also was on waivers this
year and clear yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
Some mystifying things from those teams.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
But the one other team that I am just I
don't know what it was going on there? What are
the Seattle Kraken doing.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
Well? Frankly, I'm was more pleased by what they did because,
like they realize that they don't have a true game
breakers and so cashing in as many parts as they
can for picks made sense for them. They basically had
the trade deadline. I wish the Flames had where, you know,
(57:40):
trading off a few surplus pieces for you know, assets
at least would have you know. But yeah, like Seattle, frankly,
they need to be bad in order to get good,
and they like even at their best, like they're not
just not good enough.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
They've won. They beat Vancouver and Calgary the exact same
way this year. They played fifty five minutes of absolutely
god awful hockey, they played five minutes of good hockey
and found a way to win a game in overtime.
I just when I watched this team, I just find
them so pedestrian. They're just they're not interesting.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
No, man, It's one of those things that with Schwartz
and every being older, yea, like they need to move
on from them and reset, even though like they're very
good players in their own right, it's just, you know,
(58:39):
they need to get some more youth in their lineup.
And yeah, it sucks that borg Strand had to go
from their point of view because you know, he was
a key contributor for them. But the return that they got, yeah,
that made a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (58:55):
A the Yeah, they they got some good picks that
they can use and Detroit's retaining some sound callery on
that board strate deal, So that's that's good as well.
Speaker 3 (59:02):
But yeah, no, and frankly, it just makes the draft
a little bit more interesting because like there are teams
like Calgary, like Seattle who now have a dearth of
extra picks that you know, if teams are wanting to
shake things up, you know, you can actually facilitate a trade.
(59:24):
And you know, like each team will have plenty of
cap space to make things happen if teams want to
go in a different direction. So it'll be interesting to see, like,
you know, the the amount of flexibility that both Seattle
and Calgary have are imments heading into the draft after
(59:45):
this season.
Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yep, it's yeah, it's going to be, you know, whether
the Flames the playoffs or not. The offseason is probably
is going to be one of the more intriguing ones
with the stuff that they have, the cap going up,
the names that will be out there, it's you know, it's.
Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Yeah, like when you have to first a second and
a pair of thirds and a fairly stocked prospect cupboard,
like they just need some top end forward skill.
Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
You know. It was that wasn't me because, like I
there was the report that the Flames were going to
go in on a round and I actually wouldn't have
wanted that because I just think that's too it. Even
with the cap going up, you've got players to sign. Yeah, no,
I agree, the fourteen million dollars would be coarrangeoning.
Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
No, frankly, like the Flames need to just be a
little bit more patient and actually draft and develop some people. Yeah,
because like they have hit the mark on a number
of their draft picks, and like in the various leagues,
like they're performing extremely well so and like they have
a number of guys that are looking like high quality
(01:00:58):
future nhlrs. So just gotta see whether or not you
can add via free agency or make prudent trades at
the deadline or at the draft as well. So what's
to look forward to, Just you know, wanting to not
be quite so patient with you know, turning the page
(01:01:19):
on this team though, to get to the next stages.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Fair enough, Well, tell us what's going on on fireside
Chat this weekend.
Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
We're going to be recapping the week that was after
the Montreal game and the trade deadline that did not
really materialize into anything, and discussing that and looking ahead
to the last nineteen games for the Flames and the
tough road that lead, you know, is between them and
(01:01:52):
game one of the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
So yes or yeah, we will if you have a
conversation little chat on Sunday. And they did nothing as well,
So we'll unpack that situation on Sunday, so we'll keep
an eye on that. That will be of course before
they play the Dallas Stars on They played Minnesota to
(01:02:17):
Friday night and Dallas Stars on Sunday, so they got
an interesting week ahead and then so we'll recap that.
Of course. You can where do we follow you, Matt and.
Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
At fireside chat dot ca, on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Play,
basically anywhere you can find a podcast at fireside podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Yeah with us, same thing. Facebook dot com Shifts and Pucks,
YouTube dot com Shifts and Pucks, Twitch dot com Shifts
and Pucks. Subscribe again wherever you get your audio. Thank
you for watching, Thank you for listening. We will talk
to you all very soon. Bye for now, Thanks for
coming
Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Matt yep, thank you
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