February 4, 2025 • 63 mins
The Canucks made two massive trades
JT Miller is now a Ranger and Marcus Pettersson joins the Canucks.
What do these trades do for the Canucks now and in the future?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And I quote, I'll be there in a minute, give
me a second. Time is relative, folks, Time is relative.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So hey, cheers everybody in the chat. Is there a
division rival?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I don't care how many gets, how many wins they get.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Screw them. That wasn't the take I was expecting to hear.
I want to gush over watching live Chris Tanda.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I think that we completely underestimate that the skill it
takes to play defense one highlight or several highlights does
not a called trophy.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Mate.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I'm stepping in here. I'm going to be the crochy
old man here. They need to learn patience.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
They need to understand the attention everything in the end
of the drama.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh dere, look at this. How is mcgam of not
getting the penalty? You guys need to calm down with this. Okay,
you guys need to calm down with.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Is anyone calm right now? I'm not not anywhere on
the North American continent, I don't think, but we can
get into that later. Welcome to the Strips and Fox podcast.
We are here. We are here to discuss the Canucks
(01:39):
and how Patrick Alvin decided to basically throw a wrench
into everyone's Friday plans and uh after he made a
couple of big trades. But today I am joined by Chris.
How are you doing? Chris?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I'm doing well. I'm a little cold here in PG.
That was quite the icy trek up from the Okanagan,
but I made in one piece and I'm happy to
be in my hotel.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah. And then we also have Tyler. How are you doing? Tyler?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Hey, guys, nice to have two people on this show
in northern DC tonight. Experience an Arctic out flow right now,
so it was also unusually coold here as well, So
bundle up everybody, including Chris. Nice to see you guys both. Yeah,
the winds have changed and arrived. We wondered when that
would might be in and here we are big changes
(02:35):
in Canuckland.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah yeah, and I may not be in northern BC,
but he is frigid here in Calgary as well. We're
in the minus thirty with windshill range here too, so
it's not fun. But yeah, we got a couple big
traits to talk about here with the with the Vancouver Canucks.
(02:57):
The first one JT.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Miller.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
His time with the Canucks is has ended and he's
now with the new York Rangers. He goes to the
Rangers along with oh, crap, who was it? I'm already forgotten.
Good job, Sean, Let's go. That isn't really mat It's
like it was like.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It was, Eric.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And uh.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Remember the prospect's name, Dorington, Jackson.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Jackson Dorington, Eric Brastram and Jackson Dorrington joined J. C.
Miller with the Rangers, and the Canucks get Philip Pedl
Mancini and a I.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Wan't say his first name is Victor Victor Mancini.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, Victor Mancini and a first round pick that was
protected for this upcoming twenty twenty five draft top thirteen
pick gets the Rangers keep it, but if it's lower
than that, then the Canucks wouldn't get it. But that
(04:09):
pick didn't last long in the Canucks in.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And Patrick Elvin's pocket real quick.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
He did so the Canucks and then flipped that first
round pick, along with Minnie Dejerney and Dance and Heinen
to the Pittsburgh Penguins for Marcus Patterson because it could
not they did not have enough Pattersons, they did not
have enough peas and Drew O'Connor, and then there's Melvin
(04:41):
fir Instrum as well go to Pittsburgh in that deal.
So let's break this down. Let's first talk about the
elephants that's no longer in the room, and that is
the j is JT. Miller and that trade. What were
your guys' thoughts on that trade?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I mean, hopefully, thank god that the drama is potentially
over now, because that's been a big gray cloud that
had been hanging over the team for the past what
two months now, or at least it felt that way.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I That was my initial reaction to it, was like, okay,
it was last week John and I talked about the
Jim Rutherford exclusive interview with Jerry Mason of The Globe
and Mail that turned perception into reality as far as
issues in the locker room. So it wasn't surprised that
one of the two got moved. For me, less of
a surprise that it was JT. Miller, giving his contract
(05:37):
being shorter term and lower cap hit and a lot
of noise around the Rangers being interested in reacquiring him.
So when it went down, I was just mostly relieved
to that the saga is over. It was a great
stint that J. T. Miller had with the Canucks. It's
unfortunate that it ended in this fashion, but something had
(05:59):
to change. I mean, the team was just not performing
near anywhere near to the level that that was expected
of them, and at some point you have to start
moving some big pieces. And obviously the publicized rift in
the locker room with him and that and p d
U probably sped that up a little bit.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, so yeah, it's it was definitely time for the
Canucks to make a move. They were close on actually
moving Peterson at one point. Then it sounds like Carolina
made the decision to go with Branton and instead, But
Rangers have been chasing after J. T. Miller for a
while now, So yeah, I think it's it's one of
(06:47):
those Like I think what I really hope from this
trade is that we it's not gonna happen, but I
really hope that the majority of the fan base can
move on. Yes, you can look back at some of
the reported trade trade offers that the Canucks said no to,
but how many how much of that is actually true,
(07:07):
and how much of that is actually is skewed facts
or misinformation or whatever is still Like I don't know
if we'll ever find out, but getting a getting Philipidal,
who is a twenty five year old center who was
(07:28):
basically playing like a third line role in the Rangers
organization for the last few years. Let's see what he
can do as it with a bigger role here with
the with the Canucks, because at least from last last
night's game, he looked good like he he looks I
(07:48):
like like what he could potentially bring to this team,
not only short term but long term. Victor Mancini is
a big, right shot defenseman, a bit of a late
he's still and he's still only like only twenty two.
So you're getting that and then getting that first round
pick that we'll get into what they turned that into
(08:11):
a little bit later with everything going on, I think
that I think that's about as good as good a
return as you were going from.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I agree. I mean, even though they flipped the
first round pick, just to actually have that included in
the deal for Miller was to me, okay with that.
Yeah like that. I was surprised a little bit by that,
given again the public knowledge of the need to move
this player. You know what they then ended up doing
with it, and the totality of the deal. Sure, the
(08:43):
fans are justified to feel underwhelmed by it. But but
let's be realistic. I mean, there was there was not
a winning trade scenario here. Given the circumstances. I think
that management did pretty well. And I have to be
amused a little bit of the social media chatter about oh,
Caducs fans must be fear and this and that. I mean, well,
I mean, the sophisticated ones know that there was going
(09:04):
to be a modest return, so I had to just
chuckle at that. I mean, that's kind of why Jim
Brotherfred made his public statement just to temper expectations, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, But I think they were more so referring to
the Joe schmost of the world that kind of stick
their head in the sand until they decided to peek out.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Sure, and we're talking about the the again twenty five
year old Philipaedo. His career high in seventy four games
was twenty two goals and forty five points and twenty
two to twenty three. There. I think he's got like
Kenny Kenny go, can he get to a sixty point level?
(09:43):
If he can, then like that's about like that's and
if he can do that and then you combine that
with what else the Canucks got. I don't see how
you can be super angry about it. Like a Miller's
in his thirties too, right, so how long he can
play at the level that he can play at right
(10:05):
now is still a question. Yeah, And I mean it
doesn't the whole relitigating everything does It doesn't. It doesn't
help the Jake Smiler goes in and has four points
in two games with the Rangers. But like it's we've
seen him do that, Like when he's on, he's on.
(10:29):
But can he stay focused and on for the rest
of the season as a Ranger, let alone going forwards
after this season? That's bit that is the question.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I think ultimately the biggest win out of this from
the Canucks perspective is the fact that they got out
of that contract before its soured.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yes, Yeah, because I think it's not a.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Matter of if, it's a matter of when. Because the
way JT plays, Like obviously he's a heart and soul
guy and he gears himself to fans for the most part,
But given the way he plays, he's not going to
be that effective into his late thirties. In that contract.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
We were probably already seeing signs of that too, right,
Like Patrick alvindronal manager referenced his health this year as
one of the challenges, and you know it kind of
time seemed like he was laboring through it. Oh the
founday of youth only lasts for so long, So I
I yeah, I think that's a great point, Chris. They
(11:33):
you know, they were able to get out of this
before the stock went even lower, perhaps try to make
a move.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And that's just much of the physical because he had
the mental side of things, Like I know it's all
being kind of speculation and rumor mongering, but from the
guys like Freedman, who's kind of been like eking it
up a little bit out on thirty two thoughts and whatnot,
I want to say, it sounds like he's also been
dealing with like a bit of like kind of mental
volatile as well. So if you ended up becoming a
(12:03):
kind of a cancer in the room, if you will, like, yeah,
it's not going to work out long term.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I want to address that point too. I mean, I
know it's harsh to use that description for a player,
but I heard I think fourhand Walgy report auditioned by
subtraction is what the Canucks did here and yeah, I
mean it was kind of reaching that point where it
was just too much of a cloud over the whole
team to just follow them around. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So with that in mind, what is Miller's legacy with
the Canucks?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Can you say, bray ask it not only in the
sense that he was a point and per game player
almost the entirety that he was here, but fans loved
him when he was here and then ultimately left on
a sour note.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, I think he definitely put injected a lot of
excitement back into the Vancouver Canucks, and last year's playoff run,
of course, was part of that. He his legacy will
be pushing the the internal compete factor, you know, to
a level that at times maybe was going too far
with it based on different things that you've you've heard
(13:11):
in the media about how he was as a teammate.
But uh, I think he endeared himself well to the
fans and most of throught his tenure. There were moments
where his commitment to playing defense I would say it
was a little wanting, but uh, for the most part
with this production, and you know, just the totality of
what he brought to the team.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
It was.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It was a it was a good time with the Canucks.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
He had when he was on, you said earlier, When
he's on, he's on, and he's the heartbeat of a team.
He he's he'll he'll drag the team into the fight
now and all that. But when he was off, and
he had full seasons of it where he was off,
he had tied. Like the arguments about his how how
(13:58):
volatile he was, but how loud he was on the
ice with his swearing and everything like that. Right, I
think it's it's a very com complicated legacy that he leaves.
When he was acquired, there was fans were irate with
(14:19):
that that kind of gave up a first round pick
for him, but he was more than worth that. When
he signed his extension, fans were irate that they signed
him to that deal so hot and when they yeah,
when they picked him over Horbat, they were irate, like,
it's just for everything good that he he that Miller
(14:41):
was for the franchise. He for whatever reason, whether it
was him and his volatility or it was the I'm
smarter than you are armchair gm ing from this that
this fan base and media has that can do it's
it's it's a complicated and very turbulent legacy that he leaves,
(15:05):
let alone how it ended, which is the other thing
here with the scouting with with Petterson that last apparently
lasted years. And then you had just how just defiant
he was at like not saying anything and everything like that,
(15:26):
Like it's just yeah, he was a fan favorite in
that aspect, but he just yeah, just I think just
the as you said, Chris, like how it ended with
the sour notes and everything. I think he'll be like
his legacy is gonna be very like a combination thereof
of like lu Wongo and Kesler, in the fact that
(15:50):
Kessler was a lot like he played a lot like
he plays a lot like Kesler, and that he's like
the heart and soul the team. He's a prick on
the ice, he's a prick off the ice like it's
but he and then he left and then yeah, late
leaving on a sour notes. So like and we've seen
(16:10):
how Kessler has come back and said that, yeah, one
of one of his regrets was leaving and how he left.
I wouldn't be surprised if in fought in ten years
we hear the same from JT like getting it's you know,
and but it's again I think what they what they
(16:31):
got in return with Hetel and and then Genie just
there is I think like with Heel, I think there's
something there. And then we'll get into this a little
bit later because there was some talk on the local
radio but what the Canucks are going to be looking
for going forwards? But he'l's the eight Yeah, twenty five
years old, has scored twenty goals in the in the
(16:53):
league before and was doing that and more of a
third line role. Now, if the can find some more
offensively driven players for him to play with, can he
take that next step? Because right now they are right now,
they're loading that top line up. And then they put
(17:14):
him in between Joshua and Garland last game and he
looked good. That line did look good. But it it
just admit it's miss. It feels more again, more third
line ish of a line there as opposed to having
a more like someone a little more dynamic offensively. So
if they can find that and pair him with with
someone like even if it's a Lakarmaki like, it's just
(17:40):
I want to see what he can do with some
some more offensive like linemates, and because I liked how
how direct he is. I liked how like he's like
he just powers through the neutral dome, which is something
we don't like the rest of the team doesn't really do.
So I yeah, I think I think they within the
(18:05):
the the circumstances that the Canucks were in, I think
Alvin and the company did good.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And that's right well, and I'm hopeful that the team
will play with more pace and more speed as a
result of these moves, and that's been something that's really
been hurting the team, especially against stronger teams with pace
and speed and size, we have all of them combined.
The Canucks just said too much to the time this
(18:32):
year just looked like they they were either had no
time or space or they were feeling rough with whatever
time and space they had, making poor plays and turning
the puck over and not possessing the puck enough and
all that comes back down and just not being able
to play at a fast enough pace. So hopefully that
that will improve here with.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Us, Yeah, all right, and so yeah, the other part
of that deal was the first round pick, which we said,
as we said earlier, was flipped to the Pittsburgh Penguins
along with Melvin Fernstrom, Vinnie d Herney and Dancing Heinen
for Marcus Patterson and Drew O'Connor. And what didn't like
(19:16):
with that in mind? Are you how are you how
are you feeling about the Canucks flipping that first round
pick in that deal?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I mean, at least for me, I feel like I
kind of knew it was likely coming. Like media was
already kind of r remondering that if they did get
a high end pick out of that deal, that they
likely would try and flip it in the same way
they did Heronic And I mean they were pretty spot
on with that prediction.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, that was just that wasn't really much of a surprise.
I mean, I was home, you know, there's a small
part of me that was hoping that they would hold
on to it and actually use it to draft with.
But you know, now that we see the insight of it,
there was pretty pretty clear what was likely to happen.
And you know, I think we've also seen the message
that this management team is not willing to throw in
(20:11):
the towel in this season. And you know, the in
terms of immediate NHL helped they got they got some back.
I was kind of thinking maybe a little bit more
of restocking for the future might be the better approach
to go with. But when you have more, when you
have draft picks to trade with, that certainly opens up
(20:31):
the possibilities, especially if it's a first rounder.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
And Yeah, the fact that they were able to essentially
kind of get their guy and drastically, at least in
my opinion, draft draft pretty drastically improve their defense, which
is being one of the big things that's been plaguing
this team this season. I think it ultimately yet made sense,
and I don't really have an issue with the fact
that they flipped it as quickly as they did.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, Marcus Patterson is twenty eight years old, a left shot.
Decided spend six foot four six, so he's a bit lanky,
but he still part fits that to tall wanting that
length and to defend mold that's a rick pocket lights
with his defenseman. He's a UFA at the end of
(21:19):
this year, but it sounds like they want to get
him resigned a SAP, and I don't I expect that
to be done. I think that they if they didn't
feel confident that they could get this done, they wouldn't
have made that this that move because you're not giving
up another they might the assets that they did to
(21:41):
for another rental here.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
So actually Elliott touched on that in today's episode of
three or two Thoughts. He actually said that it basically
sounds like what he's hearing around the league is that
the Canducks are actually going to get that done, get
better soon signed. So ultimately the gamble, it was worth
the gamble.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, and with that, with that in mind, Vinnie de
Harna did that that experiment didn't work, so they're they're
off that contract. Dett and Heinen. I wouldn't say it
hit hit that signing didn't work. It's just he didn't.
He didn't really stand out the way I think a
lot of people were hoping he would. And he just
(22:21):
he lot. He fell down in the depth chart. So
both those those both those deals were two years, two
year deals. So and whatever those like the cap savings
they get they get from that, they can put towards
resigning Marcus Petterson. And yeah, just just even like a bully,
(22:42):
like we didn't see a fully healthy blue line last
night because Quinn Hughes is battling, battling something and Uh,
so he didn't play. But when you think about what
the Canucks blue line could look like, healthy blue line
looks like now, whether you load up the top pair
with Ronic and Hughes or you split them up, it
(23:02):
just looks and feels so much more solid now because
you could go Hughes Myers, which has worked the last
little bit a little like decently, and then you go Heronic,
and then you have Peterson and as your second pair,
Like that makes it feel so much better. And then
for Burton and Susie, I think it's going to be
(23:23):
your third pair at that point because Susie has played
the right side in the past and putting him on
the right side and the third pair makes a lot
more sense than having him do that in the top four.
And that will be regardless of how they load up
the top four. That's that's the bottom pair I expect
to see with a fully healthy blue line. Or then yeah,
(23:47):
you could load up Hughes and Ronic and then you've
got to Peterson and Myers. Like it just it feels
just feels like it feels less.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Go Chris, Yeah, I was basically gonna say to me,
it kind of feels like they basically swapped the stability
of four forward lines to having a first line, two
third lines, and a fourth line two actually having like
three reliable ish pairs or at least three proper tiers
of defensive pairs on the back end.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah. Yeah, with those two moves, they've they've Yeah, they
downgraded up up front, which was always going to happen
in the Jac Millers trade, and they've I think drastically
improved that blue line.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, it's no longer going to be the big factor
that kind of alters this team's trajectory.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Should just maybe comment here that Carson Susi with a
was a healthy scratch and last night's game against Detroit
coach talking confirming that he needed a bit of a reset.
I didn't really see much concerns surrounding him leading up
to that, but that that great. Is this some eyebrows?
(25:00):
Any any thoughts on that? Or is it just just
think this is just a one off. I think it's
just a one off. I think it might be a
bit of a reset because like to get him back.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And I wouldn't say he was playing bad, but he's
just not where he was last year when he was helped,
when he was playing and he's yeah, so what were
the pairs last last night? Because Hughes was gone, so
I think it was Tronic Competerison as the top pair,
and then they had DPD in there as well along
(25:35):
with Myers or Horton Julson. So yeah, I think I
think just based off of who they were playing and
and everything, I think that might have been part of it.
But I think for the Canucks to be really like
the Canucks to be, I expect Suis to be a
(25:56):
part of that that blue line going forwards. I don't
as good DPD did look last night, and man, he
looked good. He's still young, he's this is still his
first pro season in in North America. There's no need
to rush him. And they did send Mancini, Carlson and
(26:17):
DPD back down to Abbotsford today. I don't know if
that was in in if that was anything more than
a paper transaction for a couple of them, or if
it's more. But yeah, it's gonna be like I want
to see what Mancini does too, because like all of
(26:40):
like the scouting reports and some of the stuff, like
the clips we've seen, like, yeah, he's not going to
be a big pup moving defenseman. But he's got he's
a big boy, and he looks like he can skate,
So could he just like if he can be in
a like maybe not now, but going forward, like in
(27:02):
the year or two, being upgrade on what Juelson is
on the right side, that would be massive for the Canucks.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, And the fact that he's a right he definitely
is kind of a hidden benefit in acquiring him because
right side defensemen are probably one of the more difficult
niche UH guys to be able to get on a roster.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah, Yeah, and that's the that's sort of what they did.
And that one thing I think not a lot of
people talk about, Yeah, losing Branstrom who came in and
really helped the Canucks out early on early in the season,
but has really fallen off and hasn't doesn't doesn't fit
the talk mold of of a blue lighter. And he's
(27:49):
also a left shot and they're pretty deep on with
with left shot defenseman with Q is now Petterson and
you've got Susie and Forbert and DP and Kadrats and
breze Bois and can go on. Hero say like they've
got enough left shots, and especially with DPD and kadrat
(28:13):
sub specifically coming up through the ranks that they needed
to they needed to make that swap and swapping branch
stream for a right shot, young, right shot defenseman, I
I think is an underrated part of that deal.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh definitely.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
First, you might argue that it was a somewhat disappointing
return for familiar, but I think when you actually get
into the nitty gritty details, it's actually not too shabby
and it's an underrated kind of good piece of work.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, I think I think it's a it's a well
thought out trade, and whether it turns out it's still
remains to be seen. Like I think, if like the
totality of the two trades, if if he can become
a if not a long term solution at the second
line center, even if even if it's a a short
(29:10):
term solution, but he can still be like a good
third liner, and then Petterson can slowify that helped slify
that blue line. I don't know, I don't know how
you cannot say that like based off of the situation
that the Canucks were in, that's not that's not a good,
good piece of work by Alvin. Considering everything that was
(29:34):
they were dealing with at that point, right, just younger. Yeah,
they The cat flexibility that they've gained out of these
two trades is significant, and I think that's something that
people need to also put into the discussion here because
we saw that the the projected cap figures came out
(29:55):
for the next few seasons and there's going to be
a big jump. And with Miller not no longer on
on the on the books, uh, he will making less
than that less than what Miller was making. I think
the Canucks are going to be aggressive this this this summer.
(30:18):
What in acquiring may not be any free agency, but
it might like just to acquire some players who may
have some term on their deals in the trade.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Or if don't go well with Bess or potentially at
the deadline.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah yeah, I was just going to bring up the deadline,
like if they if they want to have some wibble
room to try to improve the team and and go
for a playoffs spot here, then you know, cap space
was going to be a problem at some point. So
that is, you know, an underappreciated part of this. People
are just rightfully looking at what they lost to Miller
versus what came in. But uh, you know on the
(30:55):
cap space is a big part of that too. I
like that the Canucks brought in a couple of guys
from the same team that come over and as far
as you assimilating and feeling comfortable, I think that will
help for for Marcus Petterson and for Drew O'Connor, and
I'm just looking at some of their highlights here. I
you know, I think the I think the fans should
(31:17):
like the product with those two as long as they
fit in nicely.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah. Yeah. So with with Marcus Petterson, the big question
is what do we call him? Taken? TPS taken.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
And we call them collectively three PD, but individually he
needs one.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I saw MP three, which the millennial and me really likes.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Oh yeah, I had not heard that one. That's really good. Yes, yes,
oh you gotta he's gonna he got the nostalgia feeling
going now, going back to our days in high school. Yes, technology,
that was empty threes. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
And then Joe O'Connor, Yeah, he's a fourth liner. I
don't think he's mean much more than that. From again,
small sample size of last night, these four checks. Well,
he skate has a has a decent speed, it's gonna
(32:37):
be a good, energy, energy guy for the Canucks. I
think that was probably the biggest downfall for Heyden was
that he just and he never stood out for anything.
So if you can put together a fourth line for
the Canucks that has shere Wood and O'Connor on it,
(32:59):
that's gonna to be a very like, a very very
hard line to play against because they're just going to
be in on the four check so fast and right
in on the on the defenseman.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, that was actually gonna be My next comment was
the fact of if you have both him and Sherwin
on the same line, I feel like that could be
a fun, rambunctious, entertaining fourth line to watch.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, whether it's Blue Girre at center there or even
axby Ratsu who was absolutely lighting up the AHL for
a little bit there before his recent call up. So
I think it's that it's give me an underrated. Uh
listen that Drew O'Connor. If Kevin was on, he'd be
(33:44):
waxing poetic about him. I'm pretty sure, because he is
a Kevin type player. Underrated, No one talks about him,
but he brings He does a lot of the dirty
work that and everything like that. So yeah, yeah, I agreed. Yeah,
(34:05):
all right.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
One thing I just wanted to here, One thing I
just wanted to pipe in on here for a second
is you know, we've seen now in a few cases
this management group being willing to kind of surrender on
moves that they made that haven't been working out. I
know Daniel Sprang going back to earlier in the season,
(34:27):
you know, so him and Heinen and Dejarney. I mean
they're all they were all in and out fairly quick
with the same people making those choices. And that's why
we didn't see as much in the previous management regime.
They would really stick with some guys that are underperforming, overpaid,
whatever you want to look at it. Yeah, exactly here
they said, yeah, no, we tried not working moving on
(34:47):
from it. I myself, I like that, don't be stubborn
about a deal that's not working out. If it's not
working out, fix it.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, And I really part of the fan base will
probably be like, oh, yeah, they made these mistakes and
then they got rid of the like these contracts within
the same season of signing them. It was like, well,
you're not going to bad a thousand, They're gonna make
some mistakes, some some bets are not going to pay
off the way that they thought they were.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, So I don't know, you want to just like
just be stubborn and just stick with something that's not
working just to save face. Like, I don't. I don't
think that.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
They're keeping themselves accountable and continually trend tom through the team,
which is what you want.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
They did that last year with the after signing Kuzmenko
to the deal and then trading him as well. So
it's it's this, Yeah, they are what they'll They'll make
the decisions and then if it doesn't, if it's looking
like it's not working out, they will find a way too.
They're gonna, they're gonna, They're not gonna. Yeah, they're not
(35:50):
not going to be stubborn about it. And like the
false the false thought of was it the sunken and
costs and all that, right, it's not. It's not until
you let it be right. And that's when they they
basically moved. Yeah, they moved off those two deals to
(36:11):
get Peterson. And now I think it's I think that
says more about Yeah, where they're at as a as
a collective like group that they work and they're not Yeah,
they're not willing to be stubborn about mistakes and just
hold on to for dear life just to say ye
(36:33):
safe face as you said, yeah, all right. After both
those moves, Tyler, you and I we had a very
sobering conversation last week after the sim Brother free conversation interview.
Where do you? So, I'll start with you, where do you?
How are you feeling about the connections now.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Better?
Speaker 2 (36:57):
But I think it's going to take a while to
really feel confident in in it being better. Uh, this
was a lot of change all at once that I thought.
I was a little surprised to see it. Actually all
all happened so quickly and in this fashion. More optimistic
that they'll be able to scratch and call their way
(37:18):
into the playoffs. I'm not any more optimistic about the
true the ability to contend for the Stanley Cup. But
as we discussed earlier, just the fact that the soap
opera is over, then you know, now hopefully PD there
were forty ep, forty can can move forward with a
(37:38):
little less weight on his shoulders and now it really
is on him to get to perform. There's no more
excuses now. And you know, if he can raise his
level and and and play with a little more freely,
then then there is a good opportunity here for the
Canucks to take a step forward. But I think we're
gonna need to see a couple of weeks of play
here at least before before it could be solid in
(37:59):
that assessment. But I am feeling better.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Before I go to you, Chris, you meant you touch
touched on this here, Tyler. The pressure that is on
PD to pick his game up? How big? How big
is that pressure do you think?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I think it's a lot because I think we've we've
seen with the Leis Patterson that he he does take
the comments about his play to heart. I don't think
he hasn't been able to block it out very easily.
And then you know the pressure that comes with the contract.
And now there's all this discussion about JT. Miller and
you know he was snappy with the media about making
(38:36):
ship up and all of that, Like, you know, this
has to be better for him and has to take
pressure on them. You can just see in this body language,
especially in front of the press.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
All right, Chris, how do you feel about the the
Canuts now? After all these moves, even after all that
Jim Rutherford noise and everything.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, I'll initially agree with Tyler as far as how
he ended his piece in the sense that it's almost
a little too early to have like a full kind
of assessment of how well we think the Canucks are
going to be moving forward. But given the fact that
they kind of had to give up a polished performer
in Miller when he was on to basically taking a
(39:21):
series of gambles with these younger, cheaper guys, I have
faith that it's going to it could work out in
the Canucks favor. Is it going to, you know, have
them at the same level contention as what they were
last playoffs last season? Probably not, But I feel like
given the quality of guys that they were able to
(39:42):
get back between the two trades full picture, I feel
like Canuck fans shouldn't be down on this. I feel
like cautious optimism is probably the best way of trying
to have a perspective on these two trades and in
their entirety.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, and then yeah, with the pressuring out on TD
what are your expectations for him?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean, I would like to see him at least
get back to eighty five ninety points, if not over
one hundred. Like, we know that he can do it.
He's done it what a couple of times in the
past three four years. I would like to see him
get back there. But even if he doesn't get back
to that same level, I feel like, even if you
can get like to ninety percent of that, I'd be
(40:38):
fairly happy. It's just if he can live up to it,
I guess yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And I'm with Chris, you know, to try to get
back to that sort of level of production would be
somewhat satisfactory for me. A lot of this comes down
to who's playing with though, right, and he had a
lot of success on the old lot of line that
is no longer going to be seen over the years
with with JT. Millers. So now you know, despite the
(41:04):
fact of then Austraian relationship, there actually was a lot
on a success with the two of them playing together,
and we p he's had a kind of a revolving
cast of linemates and not you know, mixed bag of
success to put it mildly, and so he's gonna need
some help to get there. But you know, it really
(41:24):
is on him now to to be more assertive, just
get out there and get after it and try to
try to find that confident form me that we've seen
in the past.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
I know the lines have been a bit of a
blender this season, but I feel like now that with
Miller gone, there's a decent chance he's gonna have both
Debreska and Bester on his wings at least for you know,
if if when the connects are behind and you need
to kind of juice up your number one line or
what have you. I feel like that alone is probably
(41:55):
gonna help his game if that is a more consistent line.
But so we'll see how it plays out in long term.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah. So he's got thirty three points in forty six
games so far, Cannets have played fifty two. So if
he could go on at least, if he can get
maybe just over a point per game, including a very
dominant stretch between now and the end of the season,
(42:25):
I think that will go a long way to alleviate
the questions that there's there are on his game. He
did eighty nine points. He had a season of eighty
nine points in eighty two games last year, and then
he had his one hundred and two point season in
(42:46):
eighty games the season before, So I don't know if
he's he really is a true like higher point per
game player. He might actually be closer to an eighty
point play who can who when he's on, he is
a two hundred foot Selkie level player. So I think
(43:08):
people just I think that's where the expectations need to be.
I think tempered a little bit. I don't know. I
just don't know if when PD's on, if he's like
truly one hundred point player unless he gets like the
right chemistry with the right players.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
M hm. So.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
And then now that the Kinds have made those two moves,
what are you expecting move move wise from the Canucks
going from now going into the trade deadline.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
At least from rumblings I've seen online, it seems like
an impact forward that they lightly Woodlot on the second line.
Whether or not they do make another move, I'm not
fully convinced, like they might just want to stand pat
and to see what they got after this fairly significant
shake up. But yeah, I guess it really depends on
(44:09):
how these next couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, more depth of center would be nice. I would
imagine that's probably the priority there too. It's hard to
really I don't know the market there for another defenseman
via trade. I mean, how much more is out there? Really?
That seems a little a little more difficult to pull off,
I think at this point. But I suspect the Cannucks
(44:35):
are not done yet.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Yeah. I saw some rumblings that yeah, they are looking
for a mid twenties center who can be part of
the team for through the long term. Here I think
I want, I do want to see what Philipo can
do in a bigger role, but that part of that
needs I think he needs nothing against Joshua and Garlands,
(44:59):
but if he can get like someone's just a little
more dynamic offensively to play with and see what he
can do, I want to see that. And it maybe
because I I don't mind. They're they're they're they're center
depth right now, depending all depending on how Hetel turns out.
(45:19):
Is the only thing that you removed Miller and you've
added in Heel up the middle sos that sooners solid
solid center. Luber is a solid center. They've also got
at to Ratu who can play center for them. I
think that center depth is actually better than what a
lot of people are sort of insinuating here, But again
a lot of that comes down to where did long term,
(45:42):
where do they see Philip Hetel and and all that
so and like because the blue like the other issue
is like on the on the wings, Yeah, you've got
Dobrusk investor at uh as your top line wingers, and
then after that you've got a bunch of third and
fourth liners. Honestly, like Garland, you can argue that he
(46:05):
could be a good second line, like a solid second liner,
but as good as Jacoba, Coda Joshua is, he's perfectly
slotted as the third line winner. Like in my opinion,
I think it's just it's he's perfect in that role,
and playing up playing him up as the second line,
especially this year when he hasn't been on his game
(46:26):
for very valid reasons. I think it's they. I would
prefer that to see them looking at them getting someone
very someone dynamic offensively for Feedle to play with.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I guess if they were to be players and buyers
at the trade deadline, what would they potentially be giving
up if they do want to get something that impactful
that would potentially be on their second line, Because I
think you're giving up that first I'm not sure what
gets you there.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
I think it's I think any any of the prospects
other than Wilander and like Lequermaki are on the table,
and all those picks are on the table, and they're
gonna try and be as creative as possible to make
that work.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
And yeah, I do have faith as far as the
creativity aspect.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Mm hmm, yeah, I would. I would uh probably be
pretty choked if Lecermacki was moved to some kind of
deal here in the next couple of years.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
They if there's one player, they cannot give up on it.
That same right though, go ahead, John, Him.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
And Lander are the future of this team. You've got
a right shot defense and you can play all the
all all situations, big minute muncher if he pads out,
that's what is gonna be. And Lecermaki has it. He
already has an NHL like at above average NHL shot.
He just needs to figure out the rest of it,
(48:05):
and he's starting to get there. He hit between him
like the atmospher. Cannucks went on an absolute tear in January,
and a big part of that was Lekrimki. A big
part of that was Dasu Ratu, and I think the like,
you need to see what you have in all three
of those players before you even think about moving them.
(48:26):
And I don't think they're planning on moving at least
two of those. Ratu is someone I could see them
moving moving if the deal is right and they're getting
a player who fits long term. I think the one
thing to look out for what the Canucks is acquiring
a player who's already under contract for a while and
(48:49):
trying who's maybe underperformed in their current situation, and seeing
if they can use that as a way to lower
the acquisition price for that player.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, that's a valid, valid point as far as how
they might have to get creative to maximize the result.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Yeah, yeah, all right. Is there anything else with the
Canucks or those trades that we have a touched on?
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, boy, it was a lot packed into this last week,
wasn't there, Sean?
Speaker 3 (49:27):
There was there was? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Oh and I did listen to you as an episode
where it was just the two of you last week
and Tyler, I think the word you were searching for
but couldn't find exasperated.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yes, yes, thank you, Chris. It's nice to know that you're.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
It was a road that I had while I was
listening to the episode on Spotify.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Well during one.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Eye long drives.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
It's all right, so we tell them I'll find a
way to have fun on the show, even if it's unintentional.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
If there's nothing else, I think we'll just we'll end
it on on one NHL wide topic here, and it's
we try not to get political here.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
It's this has been more of an escape for us
and and everything like that. But with everything that has
happened with uh, the proposed tariffs that Donald Trump was
put out there with not only Canada but Mexico. We
saw that at Raptors games and multiple hockey games in
(50:46):
Canada that the American national anthem got food. Does either
guys want to give your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, I'm willing to go in on that one here
for a second. I mean, I I just it's very unfortunate.
This is a situation where politics and sports are intersecting,
and it does raise the valid, I think, discussion over
whether there should even be anthems played before professional sporting events.
And if this continues for a while, maybe something might
(51:19):
change in that regard. But you know, fans are free
to express themselves in all kinds of ways. It's a
political message, and I just hope that the players are
not taking it personally. They shouldn't. It's not about them,
it's singing them and that too, you know. And I
was on X yesterday kind of spouting off on this topic.
(51:40):
I mean, there's there's but there are people that that
want to conflate the issue and say, oh, what what
the players think? I mean, come on, people were smarter
than that. Like, the players know that this is not
about them. The singers hopefully know that this is not
about them. This is about the bigger political issues that
are surrounding Canadians right now, and that's hopefully all there
(52:01):
is to really be. You know, if there is to
say about it. I can't see how any of this
is surprising right now.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah, it's definitely unfortunate. And yeah, as Tyler was saying,
it kind of brings up that point of the discussion
that some people have been having the past couple of
years is how necessary are anthems for professional sporting games.
If these tariffs ever actually fully go into place, I
feel like it could becoming incredibly toxic really quickly, both
(52:34):
north and South of the border. There was an example where,
like most of these examples so far have been Canadians
booing the American anthem, but Sean just brought up before
we went live that there was actually an instance where
it was basically flipped the other way around in Nashville
where they were booing the Canadian anthem when the senators
are visiting.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
So yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
So I don't see this playing out very well if
they ever actually they go like actually do get imposed.
Speaker 4 (53:06):
Well.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
And here's now the other thing I'm concerned too, is
this foreig Nations face off is coming up. I mean yeah,
not just not just the Team USA games, but Canada
versus the United States on February fifteenth. This could be
something depending on how this next couple of weeks unfolds,
I'll be very fascinating to see sort of what the
(53:28):
context of that is going into it and how the
fan reaction is. There's lots of stay tuned for there.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I'm hoping that with the news that we got this
afternoon that it has been delayed by at least a month,
that hopefully that will minimize any of that at the
Four Nations because obviously if they didn't get imposed then
who knows all hell could break loose. But yeah, the
fact that they got delayed at the very least for
(53:55):
a month, I'm hoping that it will minimize the effect.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
I mean, I'm not going to compare this to to
to international footy by any stretch of the imagination, but
you know, we we do see in that sport that
it gets to be serious business in international competitions such
as the World Cup. So uh, hopefully US can get
to that point. It'd be really disappointing if if the
(54:19):
event was marred over over politics.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
Yeah, yeah, I do hope that it's uh yeah, it's
not good, doesn't Yeah, it doesn't overshadow it with that
it is. That's it is a tough one because like
it was almost dark humor haha, with the timing with
it with the Canucks game too, with it being Black
(54:48):
Excellence night and they had a black female singer who
was actually in a wheelchair having to sing through the boot.
But I.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Feel like really bad for her.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Oh yeah, but how are they not prepared for that?
That's it looked like she was.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
I think I don't think you. I don't think you
can be really truly prepared for that when you're not
used to it.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Fans is intimidating on its own.
Speaker 3 (55:24):
Yeah, exactly, so I think you need to. But from
what I did hear that, like people were going up
to her in game and telling her how awesome her
she was and and all that, and making sure she
knew that like what happened was not a reflection on
her at all. It's a it's a it's a tough
(55:46):
line to to toe. But yeah, we've seen we've seen
boo booming happened.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
For players.
Speaker 3 (55:57):
We've seen booming happen here in Calgary for the actual
mayor like it it's going to happen. We can't. Yeah,
I agree with you, Tyler. It's making sure that you're
rational about the thought about why it's happening, not trying
to make it about something else, and being able to
(56:20):
be willing to have a conversational as to why it's
happening too so.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
And to showcase the flip side of it all, like
when things are going well between the two countries, like
there was that one example where the American anthem was
being sung in Canada. The mic had failed and then
the Canadian fans finished the American anthem for the singer,
so like, yeah, exactly, we're capable of being more than
diplomatic and eat polite and kind and all the fun
(56:48):
Canadian stereotypes that there are. But obviously, yeah, with with
the volatility of the past couple of weeks with Trump,
it's yeah, it's definitely interesting, uh that things have taken Yes.
Speaker 3 (57:03):
And then before we end off, let's let's let's let's
lighten the mood. Let's talk a little bit about the
Four Nations and how are are you? Are you looking
forward to it? And if so, why.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
I I am just because we haven't seen you know,
NHL participation at the Olympic Games in the last couple
of rounds, and as uh fun as the World Championship
can be, it's just it's just never ever going to
sort of move the needle as much, at least for me,
as a World Cup or or an Olympic Games participation
(57:42):
with NHL players. This is something in between. But you know,
now we'll get to see Connor McDavid and Sydney Crosby
playing together on the same team, and the other teams
are great too, Like let's not sleep on Sweden or Finland.
There's lots of talent there too. I think the American
team is super stacked. We'll see how whether Quentin Hughes
ends up participating or not, so I think some questions
(58:03):
around that, but no that the it'll be compact. I
think the shortness of the tournament will create a sense
of urgency that I think will put on some pretty
good hockey.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Yeah, I'm fairly excited about it. It's definitely a good
like I guess, half step back to full international participation.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Like it's a little tempered in the sense that it's
only just four countries, like the fact that it isn't
including like a hockey powerhouse like Russia or even other
good hockey countries. Like I feel like limiting to just
four kind of is a detriment to it in some degree.
I would like to see a little bit more like
(58:45):
more countries involved if if they are trying to make
it a truly international event. But yeah, shortly followed by
the Olympics that the NHL players are supposed to be
going to, so I think I'm ultimately more looking forward
to that, but definitely to see like McDavid for the
first time putting on a Canadian jersey since World Juniors
(59:08):
is definitely gonna be nice to see.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, he has been at the World Championship before, but
you know, like we say, that's not really the same
type of level of tournament here, so uh yeah. And
then the other thing is too is you know, the
timing of it is just like kind of a you know,
instead of the All Star break, we've got this and
it's it'll be a nice little change of pace for
whatever it is. Ten days week, eight days. I think, uh,
(59:33):
maths has always been challenging for me, so that that'll
be that'll be great as well. It'll be uh it'll
be uh interesting to see that Canada US matches I
alluded to earlier, not just because of politics that was
that's one part of it, but just you know, where
are our guys stack up against them. It's been a
(59:54):
while since we've seen this level of of roster go
up against their level of roster.
Speaker 1 (59:59):
Yeah, that national a litmus test, if you will.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
It is.
Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
It's gonna be a Saturday night in Montreal, Canada versus
the US. Like there's so many things there's that there's been. Sorry,
there's not that many things that get me more excited
with the possibility. It looks like it looks like as
(01:00:24):
long as Drew Doughty can can can can continue to
prove that he's back, Like he'll be, but he'll be
on the Canadian team. So you're gonna have Drew Dowdy
on the team on one side, the Ka Chuck's on
another on the other like yeah, yeah, like you'll have yeah,
(01:00:49):
you'll have Brad Marsha on on one side, and like
we have to we have to cheer for Brad huh, I.
Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Know, and all the people against Austin Matthews. The twenty
sixteen World cuple Hockey. If I if I have my
my recollections of this correct, I believe Canada was behind
against Russia in the semifinals and I think either Marsha
has scored or set up a goal, and and I
remember just the reflex of you know, yeah reaction. I
(01:01:22):
was like, oh my god, that's Brad Marshan. This is
where we're at now. Yeah. I mean if he served
Canada well when he's put on the uniform, got to
give him that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Yeah yeah, So yeah, I I really I really can't
wait for that specifically that game because I think that
game on a Saturday night in Montreal could be special
if if all the players are there and they care,
it could be like one of those like just like
(01:01:54):
turning points in international hockey, because you know they're they're
they're planning off. I'm doing it was a twenty.
Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Twenty Is it twenty twenty eight that.
Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
They're trying to do like a full actual World Cup? Yes, yes,
do without the double I chaff because guess what money
talks and what's going to bring more money making sure
that all like the powerhouse nations are are there, regardless
(01:02:29):
of the political issues.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
So I think that I mean to have a way
to get the Russian players and do it if they
wanted to be a serious competition.
Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
It just definitely yeah, it's it sucks because of all
the political and human humane things that we can't really
get into too much. But yeah, for it to be
taken really seriously, especially within the hockey world a nice product.
(01:03:01):
It's better when Russia's Russia is there. So yeah, but uh,
all right, well, thank you guys for joining me. Thank
you everyone, Thank you everyone for tuning in. How do
we follow you?
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
So I'm on X at T Noble T N O
B l E.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I'm at Schneid's on most of the social media's, but
specifically with Blue Sky, I'm at Schneid's ten.
Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
I am better to Connect zero three on x, Twitter,
whatever you want to call it. You can follow the podcast,
shifts and pucks on that same that same platform slas, Facebook, YouTube,
and Twitch. Thank you for tuning in. We will see
you next time. Bye for now.
And I quote, I'll be there in a minute, give
me a second. Time is relative, folks, Time is relative.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So hey, cheers everybody in the chat. Is there a
division rival?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I don't care how many gets, how many wins they get.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Screw them. That wasn't the take I was expecting to hear.
I want to gush over watching live Chris Tanda.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I think that we completely underestimate that the skill it
takes to play defense one highlight or several highlights does
not a called trophy.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Mate.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I'm stepping in here. I'm going to be the crochy
old man here. They need to learn patience.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
They need to understand the attention everything in the end
of the drama.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh dere, look at this. How is mcgam of not
getting the penalty? You guys need to calm down with this. Okay,
you guys need to calm down with.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Is anyone calm right now? I'm not not anywhere on
the North American continent, I don't think, but we can
get into that later. Welcome to the Strips and Fox podcast.
We are here. We are here to discuss the Canucks
(01:39):
and how Patrick Alvin decided to basically throw a wrench
into everyone's Friday plans and uh after he made a
couple of big trades. But today I am joined by Chris.
How are you doing? Chris?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I'm doing well. I'm a little cold here in PG.
That was quite the icy trek up from the Okanagan,
but I made in one piece and I'm happy to
be in my hotel.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah. And then we also have Tyler. How are you doing? Tyler?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Hey, guys, nice to have two people on this show
in northern DC tonight. Experience an Arctic out flow right now,
so it was also unusually coold here as well, So
bundle up everybody, including Chris. Nice to see you guys both. Yeah,
the winds have changed and arrived. We wondered when that
would might be in and here we are big changes
(02:35):
in Canuckland.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Yeah yeah, and I may not be in northern BC,
but he is frigid here in Calgary as well. We're
in the minus thirty with windshill range here too, so
it's not fun. But yeah, we got a couple big
traits to talk about here with the with the Vancouver Canucks.
(02:57):
The first one JT.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Miller.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
His time with the Canucks is has ended and he's
now with the new York Rangers. He goes to the
Rangers along with oh, crap, who was it? I'm already forgotten.
Good job, Sean, Let's go. That isn't really mat It's
like it was like.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
It was, Eric.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
And uh.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Remember the prospect's name, Dorington, Jackson.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Jackson Dorington, Eric Brastram and Jackson Dorrington joined J. C.
Miller with the Rangers, and the Canucks get Philip Pedl
Mancini and a I.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Wan't say his first name is Victor Victor Mancini.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, Victor Mancini and a first round pick that was
protected for this upcoming twenty twenty five draft top thirteen
pick gets the Rangers keep it, but if it's lower
than that, then the Canucks wouldn't get it. But that
(04:09):
pick didn't last long in the Canucks in.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
And Patrick Elvin's pocket real quick.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
He did so the Canucks and then flipped that first
round pick, along with Minnie Dejerney and Dance and Heinen
to the Pittsburgh Penguins for Marcus Patterson because it could
not they did not have enough Pattersons, they did not
have enough peas and Drew O'Connor, and then there's Melvin
(04:41):
fir Instrum as well go to Pittsburgh in that deal.
So let's break this down. Let's first talk about the
elephants that's no longer in the room, and that is
the j is JT. Miller and that trade. What were
your guys' thoughts on that trade?
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I mean, hopefully, thank god that the drama is potentially
over now, because that's been a big gray cloud that
had been hanging over the team for the past what
two months now, or at least it felt that way.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I That was my initial reaction to it, was like, okay,
it was last week John and I talked about the
Jim Rutherford exclusive interview with Jerry Mason of The Globe
and Mail that turned perception into reality as far as
issues in the locker room. So it wasn't surprised that
one of the two got moved. For me, less of
a surprise that it was JT. Miller, giving his contract
(05:37):
being shorter term and lower cap hit and a lot
of noise around the Rangers being interested in reacquiring him.
So when it went down, I was just mostly relieved
to that the saga is over. It was a great
stint that J. T. Miller had with the Canucks. It's
unfortunate that it ended in this fashion, but something had
(05:59):
to change. I mean, the team was just not performing
near anywhere near to the level that that was expected
of them, and at some point you have to start
moving some big pieces. And obviously the publicized rift in
the locker room with him and that and p d
U probably sped that up a little bit.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Yeah, so yeah, it's it was definitely time for the
Canucks to make a move. They were close on actually
moving Peterson at one point. Then it sounds like Carolina
made the decision to go with Branton and instead, But
Rangers have been chasing after J. T. Miller for a
while now, So yeah, I think it's it's one of
(06:47):
those Like I think what I really hope from this
trade is that we it's not gonna happen, but I
really hope that the majority of the fan base can
move on. Yes, you can look back at some of
the reported trade trade offers that the Canucks said no to,
but how many how much of that is actually true,
(07:07):
and how much of that is actually is skewed facts
or misinformation or whatever is still Like I don't know
if we'll ever find out, but getting a getting Philipidal,
who is a twenty five year old center who was
(07:28):
basically playing like a third line role in the Rangers
organization for the last few years. Let's see what he
can do as it with a bigger role here with
the with the Canucks, because at least from last last
night's game, he looked good like he he looks I
(07:48):
like like what he could potentially bring to this team,
not only short term but long term. Victor Mancini is
a big, right shot defenseman, a bit of a late
he's still and he's still only like only twenty two.
So you're getting that and then getting that first round
pick that we'll get into what they turned that into
(08:11):
a little bit later with everything going on, I think
that I think that's about as good as good a
return as you were going from.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, I agree. I mean, even though they flipped the
first round pick, just to actually have that included in
the deal for Miller was to me, okay with that.
Yeah like that. I was surprised a little bit by that,
given again the public knowledge of the need to move
this player. You know what they then ended up doing
with it, and the totality of the deal. Sure, the
(08:43):
fans are justified to feel underwhelmed by it. But but
let's be realistic. I mean, there was there was not
a winning trade scenario here. Given the circumstances. I think
that management did pretty well. And I have to be
amused a little bit of the social media chatter about oh,
Caducs fans must be fear and this and that. I mean, well,
I mean, the sophisticated ones know that there was going
(09:04):
to be a modest return, so I had to just
chuckle at that. I mean, that's kind of why Jim
Brotherfred made his public statement just to temper expectations, wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, But I think they were more so referring to
the Joe schmost of the world that kind of stick
their head in the sand until they decided to peek out.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Sure, and we're talking about the the again twenty five
year old Philipaedo. His career high in seventy four games
was twenty two goals and forty five points and twenty
two to twenty three. There. I think he's got like
Kenny Kenny go, can he get to a sixty point level?
(09:43):
If he can, then like that's about like that's and
if he can do that and then you combine that
with what else the Canucks got. I don't see how
you can be super angry about it. Like a Miller's
in his thirties too, right, so how long he can
play at the level that he can play at right
(10:05):
now is still a question. Yeah, And I mean it
doesn't the whole relitigating everything does It doesn't. It doesn't
help the Jake Smiler goes in and has four points
in two games with the Rangers. But like it's we've
seen him do that, Like when he's on, he's on.
(10:29):
But can he stay focused and on for the rest
of the season as a Ranger, let alone going forwards
after this season? That's bit that is the question.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I think ultimately the biggest win out of this from
the Canucks perspective is the fact that they got out
of that contract before its soured.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yes, Yeah, because I think it's not a.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Matter of if, it's a matter of when. Because the
way JT plays, Like obviously he's a heart and soul
guy and he gears himself to fans for the most part,
But given the way he plays, he's not going to
be that effective into his late thirties. In that contract.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
We were probably already seeing signs of that too, right,
Like Patrick alvindronal manager referenced his health this year as
one of the challenges, and you know it kind of
time seemed like he was laboring through it. Oh the
founday of youth only lasts for so long, So I
I yeah, I think that's a great point, Chris. They
(11:33):
you know, they were able to get out of this
before the stock went even lower, perhaps try to make
a move.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And that's just much of the physical because he had
the mental side of things, Like I know it's all
being kind of speculation and rumor mongering, but from the
guys like Freedman, who's kind of been like eking it
up a little bit out on thirty two thoughts and whatnot,
I want to say, it sounds like he's also been
dealing with like a bit of like kind of mental
volatile as well. So if you ended up becoming a
(12:03):
kind of a cancer in the room, if you will, like, yeah,
it's not going to work out long term.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I want to address that point too. I mean, I
know it's harsh to use that description for a player,
but I heard I think fourhand Walgy report auditioned by
subtraction is what the Canucks did here and yeah, I
mean it was kind of reaching that point where it
was just too much of a cloud over the whole
team to just follow them around. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
So with that in mind, what is Miller's legacy with
the Canucks?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Can you say, bray ask it not only in the
sense that he was a point and per game player
almost the entirety that he was here, but fans loved
him when he was here and then ultimately left on
a sour note.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, I think he definitely put injected a lot of
excitement back into the Vancouver Canucks, and last year's playoff run,
of course, was part of that. He his legacy will
be pushing the the internal compete factor, you know, to
a level that at times maybe was going too far
with it based on different things that you've you've heard
(13:11):
in the media about how he was as a teammate.
But uh, I think he endeared himself well to the
fans and most of throught his tenure. There were moments
where his commitment to playing defense I would say it
was a little wanting, but uh, for the most part
with this production, and you know, just the totality of
what he brought to the team.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
It was.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It was a it was a good time with the Canucks.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
He had when he was on, you said earlier, When
he's on, he's on, and he's the heartbeat of a team.
He he's he'll he'll drag the team into the fight
now and all that. But when he was off, and
he had full seasons of it where he was off,
he had tied. Like the arguments about his how how
(13:58):
volatile he was, but how loud he was on the
ice with his swearing and everything like that. Right, I
think it's it's a very com complicated legacy that he leaves.
When he was acquired, there was fans were irate with
(14:19):
that that kind of gave up a first round pick
for him, but he was more than worth that. When
he signed his extension, fans were irate that they signed
him to that deal so hot and when they yeah,
when they picked him over Horbat, they were irate, like,
it's just for everything good that he he that Miller
(14:41):
was for the franchise. He for whatever reason, whether it
was him and his volatility or it was the I'm
smarter than you are armchair gm ing from this that
this fan base and media has that can do it's
it's it's a complicated and very turbulent legacy that he leaves,
(15:05):
let alone how it ended, which is the other thing
here with the scouting with with Petterson that last apparently
lasted years. And then you had just how just defiant
he was at like not saying anything and everything like that,
(15:26):
Like it's just yeah, he was a fan favorite in
that aspect, but he just yeah, just I think just
the as you said, Chris, like how it ended with
the sour notes and everything. I think he'll be like
his legacy is gonna be very like a combination thereof
of like lu Wongo and Kesler, in the fact that
(15:50):
Kessler was a lot like he played a lot like
he plays a lot like Kesler, and that he's like
the heart and soul the team. He's a prick on
the ice, he's a prick off the ice like it's
but he and then he left and then yeah, late
leaving on a sour notes. So like and we've seen
(16:10):
how Kessler has come back and said that, yeah, one
of one of his regrets was leaving and how he left.
I wouldn't be surprised if in fought in ten years
we hear the same from JT like getting it's you know,
and but it's again I think what they what they
(16:31):
got in return with Hetel and and then Genie just
there is I think like with Heel, I think there's
something there. And then we'll get into this a little
bit later because there was some talk on the local
radio but what the Canucks are going to be looking
for going forwards? But he'l's the eight Yeah, twenty five
years old, has scored twenty goals in the in the
(16:53):
league before and was doing that and more of a
third line role. Now, if the can find some more
offensively driven players for him to play with, can he
take that next step? Because right now they are right now,
they're loading that top line up. And then they put
(17:14):
him in between Joshua and Garland last game and he
looked good. That line did look good. But it it
just admit it's miss. It feels more again, more third
line ish of a line there as opposed to having
a more like someone a little more dynamic offensively. So
if they can find that and pair him with with
someone like even if it's a Lakarmaki like, it's just
(17:40):
I want to see what he can do with some
some more offensive like linemates, and because I liked how
how direct he is. I liked how like he's like
he just powers through the neutral dome, which is something
we don't like the rest of the team doesn't really do.
So I yeah, I think I think they within the
(18:05):
the the circumstances that the Canucks were in, I think
Alvin and the company did good.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And that's right well, and I'm hopeful that the team
will play with more pace and more speed as a
result of these moves, and that's been something that's really
been hurting the team, especially against stronger teams with pace
and speed and size, we have all of them combined.
The Canucks just said too much to the time this
(18:32):
year just looked like they they were either had no
time or space or they were feeling rough with whatever
time and space they had, making poor plays and turning
the puck over and not possessing the puck enough and
all that comes back down and just not being able
to play at a fast enough pace. So hopefully that
that will improve here with.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Us, Yeah, all right, and so yeah, the other part
of that deal was the first round pick, which we said,
as we said earlier, was flipped to the Pittsburgh Penguins
along with Melvin Fernstrom, Vinnie d Herney and Dancing Heinen
for Marcus Patterson and Drew O'Connor. And what didn't like
(19:16):
with that in mind? Are you how are you how
are you feeling about the Canucks flipping that first round
pick in that deal?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I mean, at least for me, I feel like I
kind of knew it was likely coming. Like media was
already kind of r remondering that if they did get
a high end pick out of that deal, that they
likely would try and flip it in the same way
they did Heronic And I mean they were pretty spot
on with that prediction.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, that was just that wasn't really much of a surprise.
I mean, I was home, you know, there's a small
part of me that was hoping that they would hold
on to it and actually use it to draft with.
But you know, now that we see the insight of it,
there was pretty pretty clear what was likely to happen.
And you know, I think we've also seen the message
that this management team is not willing to throw in
(20:11):
the towel in this season. And you know, the in
terms of immediate NHL helped they got they got some back.
I was kind of thinking maybe a little bit more
of restocking for the future might be the better approach
to go with. But when you have more, when you
have draft picks to trade with, that certainly opens up
(20:31):
the possibilities, especially if it's a first rounder.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
And Yeah, the fact that they were able to essentially
kind of get their guy and drastically, at least in
my opinion, draft draft pretty drastically improve their defense, which
is being one of the big things that's been plaguing
this team this season. I think it ultimately yet made sense,
and I don't really have an issue with the fact
that they flipped it as quickly as they did.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, Marcus Patterson is twenty eight years old, a left shot.
Decided spend six foot four six, so he's a bit lanky,
but he still part fits that to tall wanting that
length and to defend mold that's a rick pocket lights
with his defenseman. He's a UFA at the end of
(21:19):
this year, but it sounds like they want to get
him resigned a SAP, and I don't I expect that
to be done. I think that they if they didn't
feel confident that they could get this done, they wouldn't
have made that this that move because you're not giving
up another they might the assets that they did to
(21:41):
for another rental here.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
So actually Elliott touched on that in today's episode of
three or two Thoughts. He actually said that it basically
sounds like what he's hearing around the league is that
the Canducks are actually going to get that done, get
better soon signed. So ultimately the gamble, it was worth
the gamble.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, and with that, with that in mind, Vinnie de
Harna did that that experiment didn't work, so they're they're
off that contract. Dett and Heinen. I wouldn't say it
hit hit that signing didn't work. It's just he didn't.
He didn't really stand out the way I think a
lot of people were hoping he would. And he just
(22:21):
he lot. He fell down in the depth chart. So
both those those both those deals were two years, two
year deals. So and whatever those like the cap savings
they get they get from that, they can put towards
resigning Marcus Petterson. And yeah, just just even like a bully,
(22:42):
like we didn't see a fully healthy blue line last
night because Quinn Hughes is battling, battling something and Uh,
so he didn't play. But when you think about what
the Canucks blue line could look like, healthy blue line
looks like now, whether you load up the top pair
with Ronic and Hughes or you split them up, it
(23:02):
just looks and feels so much more solid now because
you could go Hughes Myers, which has worked the last
little bit a little like decently, and then you go Heronic,
and then you have Peterson and as your second pair,
Like that makes it feel so much better. And then
for Burton and Susie, I think it's going to be
(23:23):
your third pair at that point because Susie has played
the right side in the past and putting him on
the right side and the third pair makes a lot
more sense than having him do that in the top four.
And that will be regardless of how they load up
the top four. That's that's the bottom pair I expect
to see with a fully healthy blue line. Or then yeah,
(23:47):
you could load up Hughes and Ronic and then you've
got to Peterson and Myers. Like it just it feels
just feels like it feels less.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Go Chris, Yeah, I was basically gonna say to me,
it kind of feels like they basically swapped the stability
of four forward lines to having a first line, two
third lines, and a fourth line two actually having like
three reliable ish pairs or at least three proper tiers
of defensive pairs on the back end.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah. Yeah, with those two moves, they've they've Yeah, they
downgraded up up front, which was always going to happen
in the Jac Millers trade, and they've I think drastically
improved that blue line.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, it's no longer going to be the big factor
that kind of alters this team's trajectory.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Should just maybe comment here that Carson Susi with a
was a healthy scratch and last night's game against Detroit
coach talking confirming that he needed a bit of a reset.
I didn't really see much concerns surrounding him leading up
to that, but that that great. Is this some eyebrows?
(25:00):
Any any thoughts on that? Or is it just just
think this is just a one off. I think it's
just a one off. I think it might be a
bit of a reset because like to get him back.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And I wouldn't say he was playing bad, but he's
just not where he was last year when he was helped,
when he was playing and he's yeah, so what were
the pairs last last night? Because Hughes was gone, so
I think it was Tronic Competerison as the top pair,
and then they had DPD in there as well along
(25:35):
with Myers or Horton Julson. So yeah, I think I
think just based off of who they were playing and
and everything, I think that might have been part of it.
But I think for the Canucks to be really like
the Canucks to be, I expect Suis to be a
(25:56):
part of that that blue line going forwards. I don't
as good DPD did look last night, and man, he
looked good. He's still young, he's this is still his
first pro season in in North America. There's no need
to rush him. And they did send Mancini, Carlson and
(26:17):
DPD back down to Abbotsford today. I don't know if
that was in in if that was anything more than
a paper transaction for a couple of them, or if
it's more. But yeah, it's gonna be like I want
to see what Mancini does too, because like all of
(26:40):
like the scouting reports and some of the stuff, like
the clips we've seen, like, yeah, he's not going to
be a big pup moving defenseman. But he's got he's
a big boy, and he looks like he can skate,
So could he just like if he can be in
a like maybe not now, but going forward, like in
(27:02):
the year or two, being upgrade on what Juelson is
on the right side, that would be massive for the Canucks.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, And the fact that he's a right he definitely
is kind of a hidden benefit in acquiring him because
right side defensemen are probably one of the more difficult
niche UH guys to be able to get on a roster.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah, Yeah, and that's the that's sort of what they did.
And that one thing I think not a lot of
people talk about, Yeah, losing Branstrom who came in and
really helped the Canucks out early on early in the season,
but has really fallen off and hasn't doesn't doesn't fit
the talk mold of of a blue lighter. And he's
(27:49):
also a left shot and they're pretty deep on with
with left shot defenseman with Q is now Petterson and
you've got Susie and Forbert and DP and Kadrats and
breze Bois and can go on. Hero say like they've
got enough left shots, and especially with DPD and kadrat
(28:13):
sub specifically coming up through the ranks that they needed
to they needed to make that swap and swapping branch
stream for a right shot, young, right shot defenseman, I
I think is an underrated part of that deal.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh definitely.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
First, you might argue that it was a somewhat disappointing
return for familiar, but I think when you actually get
into the nitty gritty details, it's actually not too shabby
and it's an underrated kind of good piece of work.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, I think I think it's a it's a well
thought out trade, and whether it turns out it's still
remains to be seen. Like I think, if like the
totality of the two trades, if if he can become
a if not a long term solution at the second
line center, even if even if it's a a short
(29:10):
term solution, but he can still be like a good
third liner, and then Petterson can slowify that helped slify
that blue line. I don't know, I don't know how
you cannot say that like based off of the situation
that the Canucks were in, that's not that's not a good,
good piece of work by Alvin. Considering everything that was
(29:34):
they were dealing with at that point, right, just younger. Yeah,
they The cat flexibility that they've gained out of these
two trades is significant, and I think that's something that
people need to also put into the discussion here because
we saw that the the projected cap figures came out
(29:55):
for the next few seasons and there's going to be
a big jump. And with Miller not no longer on
on the on the books, uh, he will making less
than that less than what Miller was making. I think
the Canucks are going to be aggressive this this this summer.
(30:18):
What in acquiring may not be any free agency, but
it might like just to acquire some players who may
have some term on their deals in the trade.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Or if don't go well with Bess or potentially at
the deadline.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah yeah, I was just going to bring up the deadline,
like if they if they want to have some wibble
room to try to improve the team and and go
for a playoffs spot here, then you know, cap space
was going to be a problem at some point. So
that is, you know, an underappreciated part of this. People
are just rightfully looking at what they lost to Miller
versus what came in. But uh, you know on the
(30:55):
cap space is a big part of that too. I
like that the Canucks brought in a couple of guys
from the same team that come over and as far
as you assimilating and feeling comfortable, I think that will
help for for Marcus Petterson and for Drew O'Connor, and
I'm just looking at some of their highlights here. I
you know, I think the I think the fans should
(31:17):
like the product with those two as long as they
fit in nicely.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah. Yeah. So with with Marcus Petterson, the big question
is what do we call him? Taken? TPS taken.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
And we call them collectively three PD, but individually he
needs one.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I saw MP three, which the millennial and me really likes.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Oh yeah, I had not heard that one. That's really good. Yes, yes,
oh you gotta he's gonna he got the nostalgia feeling
going now, going back to our days in high school. Yes, technology,
that was empty threes. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
And then Joe O'Connor, Yeah, he's a fourth liner. I
don't think he's mean much more than that. From again,
small sample size of last night, these four checks. Well,
he skate has a has a decent speed, it's gonna
(32:37):
be a good, energy, energy guy for the Canucks. I
think that was probably the biggest downfall for Heyden was
that he just and he never stood out for anything.
So if you can put together a fourth line for
the Canucks that has shere Wood and O'Connor on it,
(32:59):
that's gonna to be a very like, a very very
hard line to play against because they're just going to
be in on the four check so fast and right
in on the on the defenseman.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, that was actually gonna be My next comment was
the fact of if you have both him and Sherwin
on the same line, I feel like that could be
a fun, rambunctious, entertaining fourth line to watch.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, whether it's Blue Girre at center there or even
axby Ratsu who was absolutely lighting up the AHL for
a little bit there before his recent call up. So
I think it's that it's give me an underrated. Uh
listen that Drew O'Connor. If Kevin was on, he'd be
(33:44):
waxing poetic about him. I'm pretty sure, because he is
a Kevin type player. Underrated, No one talks about him,
but he brings He does a lot of the dirty
work that and everything like that. So yeah, yeah, I agreed. Yeah,
(34:05):
all right.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
One thing I just wanted to here, One thing I
just wanted to pipe in on here for a second
is you know, we've seen now in a few cases
this management group being willing to kind of surrender on
moves that they made that haven't been working out. I
know Daniel Sprang going back to earlier in the season,
(34:27):
you know, so him and Heinen and Dejarney. I mean
they're all they were all in and out fairly quick
with the same people making those choices. And that's why
we didn't see as much in the previous management regime.
They would really stick with some guys that are underperforming, overpaid,
whatever you want to look at it. Yeah, exactly here
they said, yeah, no, we tried not working moving on
(34:47):
from it. I myself, I like that, don't be stubborn
about a deal that's not working out. If it's not
working out, fix it.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, And I really part of the fan base will
probably be like, oh, yeah, they made these mistakes and
then they got rid of the like these contracts within
the same season of signing them. It was like, well,
you're not going to bad a thousand, They're gonna make
some mistakes, some some bets are not going to pay
off the way that they thought they were.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, So I don't know, you want to just like
just be stubborn and just stick with something that's not
working just to save face. Like, I don't. I don't
think that.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
They're keeping themselves accountable and continually trend tom through the team,
which is what you want.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
They did that last year with the after signing Kuzmenko
to the deal and then trading him as well. So
it's it's this, Yeah, they are what they'll They'll make
the decisions and then if it doesn't, if it's looking
like it's not working out, they will find a way too.
They're gonna, they're gonna, They're not gonna. Yeah, they're not
(35:50):
not going to be stubborn about it. And like the
false the false thought of was it the sunken and
costs and all that, right, it's not. It's not until
you let it be right. And that's when they they
basically moved. Yeah, they moved off those two deals to
(36:11):
get Peterson. And now I think it's I think that
says more about Yeah, where they're at as a as
a collective like group that they work and they're not Yeah,
they're not willing to be stubborn about mistakes and just
hold on to for dear life just to say ye
(36:33):
safe face as you said, yeah, all right. After both
those moves, Tyler, you and I we had a very
sobering conversation last week after the sim Brother free conversation interview.
Where do you? So, I'll start with you, where do you?
How are you feeling about the connections now.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Better?
Speaker 2 (36:57):
But I think it's going to take a while to
really feel confident in in it being better. Uh, this
was a lot of change all at once that I thought.
I was a little surprised to see it. Actually all
all happened so quickly and in this fashion. More optimistic
that they'll be able to scratch and call their way
(37:18):
into the playoffs. I'm not any more optimistic about the
true the ability to contend for the Stanley Cup. But
as we discussed earlier, just the fact that the soap
opera is over, then you know, now hopefully PD there
were forty ep, forty can can move forward with a
(37:38):
little less weight on his shoulders and now it really
is on him to get to perform. There's no more
excuses now. And you know, if he can raise his
level and and and play with a little more freely,
then then there is a good opportunity here for the
Canucks to take a step forward. But I think we're
gonna need to see a couple of weeks of play
here at least before before it could be solid in
(37:59):
that assessment. But I am feeling better.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Before I go to you, Chris, you meant you touch
touched on this here, Tyler. The pressure that is on
PD to pick his game up? How big? How big
is that pressure do you think?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
I think it's a lot because I think we've we've
seen with the Leis Patterson that he he does take
the comments about his play to heart. I don't think
he hasn't been able to block it out very easily.
And then you know the pressure that comes with the contract.
And now there's all this discussion about JT. Miller and
you know he was snappy with the media about making
(38:36):
ship up and all of that, Like, you know, this
has to be better for him and has to take
pressure on them. You can just see in this body language,
especially in front of the press.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
All right, Chris, how do you feel about the the
Canuts now? After all these moves, even after all that
Jim Rutherford noise and everything.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, I'll initially agree with Tyler as far as how
he ended his piece in the sense that it's almost
a little too early to have like a full kind
of assessment of how well we think the Canucks are
going to be moving forward. But given the fact that
they kind of had to give up a polished performer
in Miller when he was on to basically taking a
(39:21):
series of gambles with these younger, cheaper guys, I have
faith that it's going to it could work out in
the Canucks favor. Is it going to, you know, have
them at the same level contention as what they were
last playoffs last season? Probably not, But I feel like
given the quality of guys that they were able to
(39:42):
get back between the two trades full picture, I feel
like Canuck fans shouldn't be down on this. I feel
like cautious optimism is probably the best way of trying
to have a perspective on these two trades and in
their entirety.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah, and then yeah, with the pressuring out on TD
what are your expectations for him?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean, I would like to see him at least
get back to eighty five ninety points, if not over
one hundred. Like, we know that he can do it.
He's done it what a couple of times in the
past three four years. I would like to see him
get back there. But even if he doesn't get back
to that same level, I feel like, even if you
can get like to ninety percent of that, I'd be
(40:38):
fairly happy. It's just if he can live up to it,
I guess yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
And I'm with Chris, you know, to try to get
back to that sort of level of production would be
somewhat satisfactory for me. A lot of this comes down
to who's playing with though, right, and he had a
lot of success on the old lot of line that
is no longer going to be seen over the years
with with JT. Millers. So now you know, despite the
(41:04):
fact of then Austraian relationship, there actually was a lot
on a success with the two of them playing together,
and we p he's had a kind of a revolving
cast of linemates and not you know, mixed bag of
success to put it mildly, and so he's gonna need
some help to get there. But you know, it really
(41:24):
is on him now to to be more assertive, just
get out there and get after it and try to
try to find that confident form me that we've seen
in the past.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
I know the lines have been a bit of a
blender this season, but I feel like now that with
Miller gone, there's a decent chance he's gonna have both
Debreska and Bester on his wings at least for you know,
if if when the connects are behind and you need
to kind of juice up your number one line or
what have you. I feel like that alone is probably
(41:55):
gonna help his game if that is a more consistent line.
But so we'll see how it plays out in long term.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah. So he's got thirty three points in forty six
games so far, Cannets have played fifty two. So if
he could go on at least, if he can get
maybe just over a point per game, including a very
dominant stretch between now and the end of the season,
(42:25):
I think that will go a long way to alleviate
the questions that there's there are on his game. He
did eighty nine points. He had a season of eighty
nine points in eighty two games last year, and then
he had his one hundred and two point season in
(42:46):
eighty games the season before, So I don't know if
he's he really is a true like higher point per
game player. He might actually be closer to an eighty
point play who can who when he's on, he is
a two hundred foot Selkie level player. So I think
(43:08):
people just I think that's where the expectations need to be.
I think tempered a little bit. I don't know. I
just don't know if when PD's on, if he's like
truly one hundred point player unless he gets like the
right chemistry with the right players.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
M hm. So.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
And then now that the Kinds have made those two moves,
what are you expecting move move wise from the Canucks
going from now going into the trade deadline.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
At least from rumblings I've seen online, it seems like
an impact forward that they lightly Woodlot on the second line.
Whether or not they do make another move, I'm not
fully convinced, like they might just want to stand pat
and to see what they got after this fairly significant
shake up. But yeah, I guess it really depends on
(44:09):
how these next couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, more depth of center would be nice. I would
imagine that's probably the priority there too. It's hard to
really I don't know the market there for another defenseman
via trade. I mean, how much more is out there? Really?
That seems a little a little more difficult to pull off,
I think at this point. But I suspect the Cannucks
(44:35):
are not done yet.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Yeah. I saw some rumblings that yeah, they are looking
for a mid twenties center who can be part of
the team for through the long term. Here I think
I want, I do want to see what Philipo can
do in a bigger role, but that part of that
needs I think he needs nothing against Joshua and Garlands,
(44:59):
but if he can get like someone's just a little
more dynamic offensively to play with and see what he
can do, I want to see that. And it maybe
because I I don't mind. They're they're they're they're center
depth right now, depending all depending on how Hetel turns out.
(45:19):
Is the only thing that you removed Miller and you've
added in Heel up the middle sos that sooners solid
solid center. Luber is a solid center. They've also got
at to Ratu who can play center for them. I
think that center depth is actually better than what a
lot of people are sort of insinuating here, But again
a lot of that comes down to where did long term,
(45:42):
where do they see Philip Hetel and and all that
so and like because the blue like the other issue
is like on the on the wings, Yeah, you've got
Dobrusk investor at uh as your top line wingers, and
then after that you've got a bunch of third and
fourth liners. Honestly, like Garland, you can argue that he
(46:05):
could be a good second line, like a solid second liner,
but as good as Jacoba, Coda Joshua is, he's perfectly
slotted as the third line winner. Like in my opinion,
I think it's just it's he's perfect in that role,
and playing up playing him up as the second line,
especially this year when he hasn't been on his game
(46:26):
for very valid reasons. I think it's they. I would
prefer that to see them looking at them getting someone
very someone dynamic offensively for Feedle to play with.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I guess if they were to be players and buyers
at the trade deadline, what would they potentially be giving
up if they do want to get something that impactful
that would potentially be on their second line, Because I
think you're giving up that first I'm not sure what
gets you there.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
I think it's I think any any of the prospects
other than Wilander and like Lequermaki are on the table,
and all those picks are on the table, and they're
gonna try and be as creative as possible to make
that work.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
And yeah, I do have faith as far as the
creativity aspect.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Mm hmm, yeah, I would. I would uh probably be
pretty choked if Lecermacki was moved to some kind of
deal here in the next couple of years.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
They if there's one player, they cannot give up on it.
That same right though, go ahead, John, Him.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
And Lander are the future of this team. You've got
a right shot defense and you can play all the
all all situations, big minute muncher if he pads out,
that's what is gonna be. And Lecermaki has it. He
already has an NHL like at above average NHL shot.
He just needs to figure out the rest of it,
(48:05):
and he's starting to get there. He hit between him
like the atmospher. Cannucks went on an absolute tear in January,
and a big part of that was Lekrimki. A big
part of that was Dasu Ratu, and I think the like,
you need to see what you have in all three
of those players before you even think about moving them.
(48:26):
And I don't think they're planning on moving at least
two of those. Ratu is someone I could see them
moving moving if the deal is right and they're getting
a player who fits long term. I think the one
thing to look out for what the Canucks is acquiring
a player who's already under contract for a while and
(48:49):
trying who's maybe underperformed in their current situation, and seeing
if they can use that as a way to lower
the acquisition price for that player.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, that's a valid, valid point as far as how
they might have to get creative to maximize the result.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Yeah, yeah, all right. Is there anything else with the
Canucks or those trades that we have a touched on?
Speaker 4 (49:22):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, boy, it was a lot packed into this last week,
wasn't there, Sean?
Speaker 3 (49:27):
There was there was? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Oh and I did listen to you as an episode
where it was just the two of you last week
and Tyler, I think the word you were searching for
but couldn't find exasperated.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Ah.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yes, yes, thank you, Chris. It's nice to know that you're.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
It was a road that I had while I was
listening to the episode on Spotify.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Well during one.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Eye long drives.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
It's all right, so we tell them I'll find a
way to have fun on the show, even if it's unintentional.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
If there's nothing else, I think we'll just we'll end
it on on one NHL wide topic here, and it's
we try not to get political here.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
It's this has been more of an escape for us
and and everything like that. But with everything that has
happened with uh, the proposed tariffs that Donald Trump was
put out there with not only Canada but Mexico. We
saw that at Raptors games and multiple hockey games in
(50:46):
Canada that the American national anthem got food. Does either
guys want to give your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Yeah, I'm willing to go in on that one here
for a second. I mean, I I just it's very unfortunate.
This is a situation where politics and sports are intersecting,
and it does raise the valid, I think, discussion over
whether there should even be anthems played before professional sporting events.
And if this continues for a while, maybe something might
(51:19):
change in that regard. But you know, fans are free
to express themselves in all kinds of ways. It's a
political message, and I just hope that the players are
not taking it personally. They shouldn't. It's not about them,
it's singing them and that too, you know. And I
was on X yesterday kind of spouting off on this topic.
(51:40):
I mean, there's there's but there are people that that
want to conflate the issue and say, oh, what what
the players think? I mean, come on, people were smarter
than that. Like, the players know that this is not
about them. The singers hopefully know that this is not
about them. This is about the bigger political issues that
are surrounding Canadians right now, and that's hopefully all there
(52:01):
is to really be. You know, if there is to
say about it. I can't see how any of this
is surprising right now.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah, it's definitely unfortunate. And yeah, as Tyler was saying,
it kind of brings up that point of the discussion
that some people have been having the past couple of
years is how necessary are anthems for professional sporting games.
If these tariffs ever actually fully go into place, I
feel like it could becoming incredibly toxic really quickly, both
(52:34):
north and South of the border. There was an example where,
like most of these examples so far have been Canadians
booing the American anthem, but Sean just brought up before
we went live that there was actually an instance where
it was basically flipped the other way around in Nashville
where they were booing the Canadian anthem when the senators
are visiting.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
So yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
So I don't see this playing out very well if
they ever actually they go like actually do get imposed.
Speaker 4 (53:06):
Well.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
And here's now the other thing I'm concerned too, is
this foreig Nations face off is coming up. I mean yeah,
not just not just the Team USA games, but Canada
versus the United States on February fifteenth. This could be
something depending on how this next couple of weeks unfolds,
I'll be very fascinating to see sort of what the
(53:28):
context of that is going into it and how the
fan reaction is. There's lots of stay tuned for there.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
I'm hoping that with the news that we got this
afternoon that it has been delayed by at least a month,
that hopefully that will minimize any of that at the
Four Nations because obviously if they didn't get imposed then
who knows all hell could break loose. But yeah, the
fact that they got delayed at the very least for
(53:55):
a month, I'm hoping that it will minimize the effect.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
I mean, I'm not going to compare this to to
to international footy by any stretch of the imagination, but
you know, we we do see in that sport that
it gets to be serious business in international competitions such
as the World Cup. So uh, hopefully US can get
to that point. It'd be really disappointing if if the
(54:19):
event was marred over over politics.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (54:26):
Yeah, yeah, I do hope that it's uh yeah, it's
not good, doesn't Yeah, it doesn't overshadow it with that
it is. That's it is a tough one because like
it was almost dark humor haha, with the timing with
it with the Canucks game too, with it being Black
(54:48):
Excellence night and they had a black female singer who
was actually in a wheelchair having to sing through the boot.
But I.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Feel like really bad for her.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Oh yeah, but how are they not prepared for that?
That's it looked like she was.
Speaker 3 (55:11):
I think I don't think you. I don't think you
can be really truly prepared for that when you're not
used to it.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Fans is intimidating on its own.
Speaker 3 (55:24):
Yeah, exactly, so I think you need to. But from
what I did hear that, like people were going up
to her in game and telling her how awesome her
she was and and all that, and making sure she
knew that like what happened was not a reflection on
her at all. It's a it's a it's a tough
(55:46):
line to to toe. But yeah, we've seen we've seen
boo booming happened.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
For players.
Speaker 3 (55:57):
We've seen booming happen here in Calgary for the actual
mayor like it it's going to happen. We can't. Yeah,
I agree with you, Tyler. It's making sure that you're
rational about the thought about why it's happening, not trying
to make it about something else, and being able to
(56:20):
be willing to have a conversational as to why it's
happening too so.
Speaker 1 (56:26):
And to showcase the flip side of it all, like
when things are going well between the two countries, like
there was that one example where the American anthem was
being sung in Canada. The mic had failed and then
the Canadian fans finished the American anthem for the singer,
so like, yeah, exactly, we're capable of being more than
diplomatic and eat polite and kind and all the fun
(56:48):
Canadian stereotypes that there are. But obviously, yeah, with with
the volatility of the past couple of weeks with Trump,
it's yeah, it's definitely interesting, uh that things have taken Yes.
Speaker 3 (57:03):
And then before we end off, let's let's let's let's
lighten the mood. Let's talk a little bit about the
Four Nations and how are are you? Are you looking
forward to it? And if so, why.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
I I am just because we haven't seen you know,
NHL participation at the Olympic Games in the last couple
of rounds, and as uh fun as the World Championship
can be, it's just it's just never ever going to
sort of move the needle as much, at least for me,
as a World Cup or or an Olympic Games participation
(57:42):
with NHL players. This is something in between. But you know,
now we'll get to see Connor McDavid and Sydney Crosby
playing together on the same team, and the other teams
are great too, Like let's not sleep on Sweden or Finland.
There's lots of talent there too. I think the American
team is super stacked. We'll see how whether Quentin Hughes
ends up participating or not, so I think some questions
(58:03):
around that, but no that the it'll be compact. I
think the shortness of the tournament will create a sense
of urgency that I think will put on some pretty
good hockey.
Speaker 1 (58:15):
Yeah, I'm fairly excited about it. It's definitely a good
like I guess, half step back to full international participation.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Like it's a little tempered in the sense that it's
only just four countries, like the fact that it isn't
including like a hockey powerhouse like Russia or even other
good hockey countries. Like I feel like limiting to just
four kind of is a detriment to it in some degree.
I would like to see a little bit more like
(58:45):
more countries involved if if they are trying to make
it a truly international event. But yeah, shortly followed by
the Olympics that the NHL players are supposed to be
going to, so I think I'm ultimately more looking forward
to that, but definitely to see like McDavid for the
first time putting on a Canadian jersey since World Juniors
(59:08):
is definitely gonna be nice to see.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, he has been at the World Championship before, but
you know, like we say, that's not really the same
type of level of tournament here, so uh yeah. And
then the other thing is too is you know, the
timing of it is just like kind of a you know,
instead of the All Star break, we've got this and
it's it'll be a nice little change of pace for
whatever it is. Ten days week, eight days. I think, uh,
(59:33):
maths has always been challenging for me, so that that'll
be that'll be great as well. It'll be uh it'll
be uh interesting to see that Canada US matches I
alluded to earlier, not just because of politics that was
that's one part of it, but just you know, where
are our guys stack up against them. It's been a
(59:54):
while since we've seen this level of of roster go
up against their level of roster.
Speaker 1 (59:59):
Yeah, that national a litmus test, if you will.
Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
It is.
Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
It's gonna be a Saturday night in Montreal, Canada versus
the US. Like there's so many things there's that there's been. Sorry,
there's not that many things that get me more excited
with the possibility. It looks like it looks like as
(01:00:24):
long as Drew Doughty can can can can continue to
prove that he's back, Like he'll be, but he'll be
on the Canadian team. So you're gonna have Drew Dowdy
on the team on one side, the Ka Chuck's on
another on the other like yeah, yeah, like you'll have yeah,
(01:00:49):
you'll have Brad Marsha on on one side, and like
we have to we have to cheer for Brad huh, I.
Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Know, and all the people against Austin Matthews. The twenty
sixteen World cuple Hockey. If I if I have my
my recollections of this correct, I believe Canada was behind
against Russia in the semifinals and I think either Marsha
has scored or set up a goal, and and I
remember just the reflex of you know, yeah reaction. I
(01:01:22):
was like, oh my god, that's Brad Marshan. This is
where we're at now. Yeah. I mean if he served
Canada well when he's put on the uniform, got to
give him that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Yeah yeah, So yeah, I I really I really can't
wait for that specifically that game because I think that
game on a Saturday night in Montreal could be special
if if all the players are there and they care,
it could be like one of those like just like
(01:01:54):
turning points in international hockey, because you know they're they're
they're planning off. I'm doing it was a twenty.
Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Twenty Is it twenty twenty eight that.
Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
They're trying to do like a full actual World Cup? Yes, yes,
do without the double I chaff because guess what money
talks and what's going to bring more money making sure
that all like the powerhouse nations are are there, regardless
(01:02:29):
of the political issues.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
So I think that I mean to have a way
to get the Russian players and do it if they
wanted to be a serious competition.
Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
It just definitely yeah, it's it sucks because of all
the political and human humane things that we can't really
get into too much. But yeah, for it to be
taken really seriously, especially within the hockey world a nice product.
(01:03:01):
It's better when Russia's Russia is there. So yeah, but uh,
all right, well, thank you guys for joining me. Thank
you everyone, Thank you everyone for tuning in. How do
we follow you?
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
So I'm on X at T Noble T N O
B l E.
Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I'm at Schneid's on most of the social media's, but
specifically with Blue Sky, I'm at Schneid's ten.
Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
I am better to Connect zero three on x, Twitter,
whatever you want to call it. You can follow the podcast,
shifts and pucks on that same that same platform slas, Facebook, YouTube,
and Twitch. Thank you for tuning in. We will see
you next time. Bye for now.
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