The Flames are Back in Town

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And you're well, and I quote, I'll be there in

(00:31):
a minute, give me a second.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Time is relative, folks, Time is relative. So hey, cheers
to everybody in the chat. Is their division rival. I
don't care how many gets, how many wins they get.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Screw them. That wasn't the take I was expecting to hear.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I want to gush over watching live Christanna. I think
that we completely underestimate the skill it takes to play.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
One highlight or several highlights does not call their trophy.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Make I'm stepping in here. I'm going to be the
Crosby old man here. They need to learn patience, They
need to understand attention. Everything in the drama. How Derek
look at this? How is McDavid not getting the pala
You guys need to calm down with this. Okay, you
guys need to calm down with Well, nothing calm about

(01:29):
the game of hockey right now. It just came off
one of the feverish pitches I think nationally North American wise,
that has happened in a long time, of course with
the foreign nations. And the Calgary Flames are back in
action on Sunday playing the San Jose Sharks, and they

(01:49):
prepare for the gauntlet of a road trip that may
or may not define their season. Welcome to the Shifts
and Pubs podcast. You can follow us on Twitter, Slash Extra,
Shifts of Facebook, dot Comshifts at Bucks, YouTube dot Comshifts
at Bucks, subscribe wherever you get your audio as well.
And joined you as After a little bit of a

(02:11):
break Dan Stevenson fireside Chat, taking a break from chatting
Flames but back, how was your time off?

Speaker 3 (02:19):
It was nice. It's you know, I think you probably
feel this way too, but being in Flames media, we
get so involved in the team. You're watching so many games,
You're you know, looking at all the news, you're listening
to the fans sentiment between games, and it's really nice
mid season just have a little bit of a break
for that.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, it just felt like it was you know, as
we hit as we hit that break, it was you know,
you had the kind of a gauntlet of a homestand
with Washington, Toronto, Colorado and things didn't really go well.
And against Toronto, things didn't really go well against Colorado,
and then you played fifty five minutes of a really

(02:58):
solid game against the Seattle Craft, but the Kraken ended
up winning that game, and it kind of up with
a little bit of a punch in the stomach in
terms of just how you lose that game. And I
think there was a bit of I think the height
of the frustration for Flames fans started started here. You
could argue Dustin Wolf needed a break. You could argue

(03:21):
just the team, you just sort of needed this mental reset. Uh,
and yeah, it kind of came in. Well, that break
came at a good time and back and we're kind
of in an interesting spot where the Flames are about
to go on this road trip that will establish where
they are at March seventh. I think, I don't know,

(03:43):
we'll maybe we'll dig into this a little bit more
as we get into it. But there was some Flames news.
I think we should let's start there. Tyson Barry left.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Before we start there. Is there anything about the Four
Nations you want to talk about so we can all yes, I.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Put this in the agenda. Did you end up watching
the Four Nation? No? Okay, because you I will credit
you for staying in your citicism because a lot of
people said I will not watch and then watched, So
you did not. I will give you.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
I saw maybe a period or two as I was
out places and it was on TV, But I did
not sit down and watch an entire game.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Okay, you did miss like you missed some incredible hockey,
for sure.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
No, I don't doubt it. I mean, anytime you have
some of the best playing some of the other best,
you're gonna get good hockey.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
But this had such a different sort of This was
unique because I think the political climate around Canada and
the US played a lot into this.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
If this was next year at the Olympics, or even
next year anywhere, it would not have been as interesting
because the political climate will change. I think a lot
of the interest in this. I know people weren't hockey fans,
were watching it just to see, you know, if the
anthems got booed and stuff like that. I think that
there was a lot of political interest just because of
where we are in the world.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, I think that that had a lot to do
with it. I think it charged, I think it. I
don't want to get too political over this, but I
think the US was very vocal about how they felt
about the fan the flag being booed. I think the
one thing that wasn't talked about, and I thought John
Cooper kind of quietly said it best. They knew Canada

(05:29):
and needed this, right, they knew. I think the team
quietly was like they didn't make a big bravado about it.
They didn't make this big we're we're Canada. But you
know this, this whole conversation, I think just I knew,
I think Canada. I think they knew Canada needed it,

(05:52):
and they blow the US out. No, it was a
phenomenal hockey game and all of that, but you know,
and I think coming away with that from a Canadian perspective,
I you know, they they handled this very Canadian.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Even though I didn't watch it, I know how things happen.
I know what the storylines were. Like I wasn't totally
you know, shut off from this. I'm surprised how physical
it was. And then that was one of the storylines too,
like look at all his fights in the first Canada
US game.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, with the Matthew with Kachuk and Hagel and Sam
Bennon and Brady Kachuck and and then you had the JT.
Miller Colton Pereko fight. It kind of you know, there
was a shot during that game that John Tarterella at
the US bench and it just reminded me of that
Flames Caducks line brawl a number of years ago. But yeah,

(06:50):
I I mean the hockey was incredible. I even think
Finland and Sweden showed themselves. Like Sweden didn't lose in regulation.
It Sweden wins their game one game against the US,
but they and then they lose to Finland in overtime,
and they lose to Canada and overtime. There's the one
six to one dud of a game between US and Finland.

(07:11):
But other than that, Finland competes. So I mean, overall,
I think the event turned out really well. It was
well watched and while I mean the biggest flaw on
the biggest sort of catastrophe was the illnesses that were
going around and allowed. Of course, Cale McCarter was six,
so Thomas Harley had to Thomas Harley was like a

(07:35):
kid in your class. He was kind of wasn't sure
if he could enter the room because there way have
been too many people. So he was waiting for the
other student to leave, and he was, so can I
go in the room when I gotta wait for the
student to leave kind of thing? And then you had
the whole situation with Queen Hughes. Was he traveling back
from Vancouver to Boston and back or just that part

(07:56):
you end up you needed some sort of.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Tax There's there's things like that that you can tell
they put this tournament together in a year, right, they
didn't have some of that plan and some of those
ideas around how they wanted to do that, and you
know what that was gonna look like. And even with
Mackenzie Wieger, I mean, it was will he won't he?
Will he won't he right up until almost the day
it started.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah, even Sidney Crosby was a was a tournament time decision.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, but I mean Sidney had been named to the team, right,
but there was no like you said, they really should
have named a taxi squad.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. I think that that
was that was the kind of the big flaw of
the of that tournament. But I mean, you have the
Olympics next year.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
I don't have I talked on my show about on
your show about why I didn't watch it, or just
on our show.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Uh, we've talked about it. You have you have said
you didn't think that this would be an intense tournament
and this is not best on best because we don't
have the checks and even and even dry side on
dry sidle and a bunch of others.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, and you know, I mean, don't get me wrong,
it's good hockey, and we knew it would be.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
It was a lot more.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
I didn't know if it was going to be All
Star Game quality hockey or you know, NHL quality hockey,
and I was surprised to see some of the physicality.
What I was worried about is that, I mean, these
are the best players on every team, and honestly, Kevin,
I was worried that somebody was going to get hurt
and then be unavailable for their team as they make
that run for the playoffs. And that's I think one

(09:33):
of the downsides of having this event when it is
in the season.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah. I got to tell you though, I was a
September person before this tournament, and I this is an
area that I have changed on because I think that
you look at yes, it was intense, It's is the
mid season, and yes there's injuries. That's unfortunate. Boston's lived
in chargedly McAvoy, Florida loses Matthew could check Quinn Hughes

(10:01):
is still may or may not be in the lineup.
You have all of these situations, but I just the
way that this was right after the Super Bowl you had,
the NBA went through an absolute does PR disaster of
an All Star game, and the NHL did. Like what

(10:22):
happened here is the NHL did take a step in
terms of popularity. Some of the most watched hockey, and
people talking about hockey that haven't talked don't talk a
lot about hockey. So I think that in that sense,
I think the NHL made a big step. There were flaws,
for sure, Absolutely, I totally agree with you. I mean,

(10:42):
but what turned out here I think was just worked
really well.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah you know, and I even saw someone who posts online.
I don't know who it is to give him credit,
but they had the idea, and I don't think it
would work. And I'll explain the idea, and that I'll explain.
I don't think it would work. As they said, do
the preliminary round with more teams in September and then
play the finals during this time. And I don't think
it would work because you would lose all that momentum.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah yeah, and then there's injuries and all of that
sort of stuff.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
And yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I love
that so many players got a break. And the one
thing I'm worried about going forward is it used to
be that every team got a bye week on one
side of the All Star Game, so everybody got time off,
whether you an All Star or not. And I worry
going forward that if they're going to keep doing this,
and I guess it's going to be every second year

(11:36):
they're going to do international play and then between they're
an All Star Game. But I think you do need
when you have as rigorous schedule as the NHL, does
you need a break.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, yeah, I do agree with you. I do wonder
one of the conversations I do think hasn't happened that
I think should happen, and I think there's some people
for this. I wonder if at some point we start
the regular season a week early and then you can

(12:09):
give yourself that break, because it it's like when you
add the playoffs and the length lake Last year was
such a long year because you had the seven game
Stanley Cup Final and then you had the two days
in between games between five, six and seven.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
That was an and even when we say start early,
remember we're already starting late. We're still starting post COVID time.
This isn't when we were starting before COVID. So you
could get back to you know, like late September to
get your season going and still probably you know, get
what you need out of it.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, Like if you could start the regular season in
the beginning of October, I think that that helps because
eight but no, I also think that.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
I mean, really, with four games and I know they
put days between them, you could run this every day, right,
I mean you could your team's not gonna play every day,
but your team played three games. You could get this
holding done in five days if you want to do
this again and give both teams time on either side.
And really like the tournament ended Friday, and regular season
or Thursday night regular season play started against Sunday. Like

(13:14):
these guys didn't get a break.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Not really, No, I mean there were some afternoon games
after that that the night game, right, and that ends
at one You have the day off and then you're playing.
You're just getting your legs back at one to play
a game at one Eastern in some cases, right, So
you know, yeah, there the flaws are there. I do

(13:38):
agree with you, but it was I worked Saturday night
in a newsroom who's not There was a bunch of
people in that newsroom that do not typically watch hockey
that just lost their minds with the three fights in
nine seconds.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
So and yeah, I think, you know, it felt to
me like an old school international game, you know what
I mean. I have a colleague who watched the first
period of the finals said, there's no fights. I'm leaving
like it. It's been a long time, so we'd see
fights in the NHL, especially at that level, you know.
And I think that and that many and I think
that this really appealed to for better for worse the

(14:15):
broad fan because of that.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah, I just created a conversation. And you know,
of course Matthew and Brady get Checkers somewhat involved.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
And you know, but anyway, let's move on to flame stuff.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah, let's get to the news. There was some news
that happened over the time off and it involved Tyson Barry.
He left practice Wednesday morning. He was placed on waivers
on Thursday. He was sent down to the Wranglers on Friday,
and Elias Oiof, who made his debut for the season

(14:55):
debut against the Seattle Krack and on Saturday, pairing up
with Rasmus Anderson. I guess, first of all, with Tyson Berry,
he played thirteen games, So I don't know if this
was much of a surprise that he was.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Remember, he was already sent down, he said, on a
conditioning stint earlier in the year, and they had to
recall him because they ran in some issues on the
blue line.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, so this was Yeah, this was the second one.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
He didn't have to clear waivers the first time because
of the conditioning stint, but they needed but then they
needed him back right away because they lost ball. Yeah,
so played two games at the Wranglers earlier this year.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
I kind of, you know, he's become he became one
of the Internet whipping boys because of the way he
I mean, Tyson Barry has never been a stout defensive player,
and I don't think he was. I don't know. I mean,
I don't want to criticize Heska for a lot of things,

(15:56):
but I don't know if Tyson Berry was used the
way Tyson Berry can play, which is a puck moving,
power play type of guy on the right side. He
was playing more on the left side. I think he
you know what, give Tyson. I give Tyson Perry a
ton of credit for being a good team guy. It
was it didn't work. No, Do I wish him well

(16:18):
in the Wranglers.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Yes, And honestly think this is over Kevin, Like you know,
he's gone to the Wranglers, he cleared waivers. You can
bring him back for up to ten games or thirty
days now without him clearing again. I think that they
want to give Slova a shot, and that's what you
should be doing. I think at that, you know, in
that bottom pair. But I only think this is a banishment.
I think they want to get Barry going, and if

(16:40):
you're taking a defenseman from the Wranglers, let's give them
one back to get them going.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
Yeah. I think that that's it too. And they did
bring up Yanku's nets off to have a look at practice.
They did. They did end up sending him down, so
we'll see the lineups.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
But the frame, from what I understand, a lot of
that to do with the fact that they didn't want
Anderson to work too hard after the four Nation They
just want another body there.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that's entirely it. Like I
think if this if they were playing this game yesterday
on Saturday, I don't think Rasmus Anderson's in the lineup,
and I know that he would have had some time off,
but I think I think they probably would have liked
him give him an extra day. Now, a couple of
other interesting things here was the practice lines on Friday

(17:25):
and the defense pairs. Actually we'll go backwards and do
the defense pairs first, because Ball, Kevin Ball was back
on practicing with Rasmus Anderson. It was Joel Hanley with
Mackenzie Weaker. It was Jake p Beam with Braden Pahol,
and sololy Off solely Off with Danil Miramanoff. Now, I
had an interesting conversation here, of course, I think Ryan

(17:49):
Husket did say today we will see later if they
activate Ball and Connorserry, which we'll get to in a moment.
But I who do you think ends upla more solely
offer mirror mat Off.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
This season?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:07):
Why is that to be one or the other? Why
can't they play together? That's how they wind up?

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Who who are you are you? Benching Bean and Pahal
for so Off and miram Oh.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
I see you're saying so you're thinking okay, so you're
thinking either being or yeah, okay. I mean I think
that if you're not going to play them, Solovyov needs
to go back to the minors. You don't want them
just sitting around, especially the run that the that the
wranglers are on. I think if you just want a
guy hanging around, you keep me or man off here.

(18:38):
He's in their contract for another year, so why not.
In terms of who lost you play more, I think
Soloviev probably plays more. If you just need a quick
call up at home they're about to go on a
road trip. I think they'll bring them with them for
an extra body. But I think if you're at home
and you say, hey, let's take being at lineup for
a night and put Selovav in, that's easy call up.

(19:00):
But if you're down in Tampa, that's a harder call up.
So I think you put Miramnov in, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, I think it is depending on situation.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
I just but I think for this long road trip
they're about to go on, I think Silovaev comes with them,
and I think he will play more than Miramanov on
that trip.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, I could see that, and I just I don't
know where the flames are at with Miramanov.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
I don't know where they have to be at. I mean,
he's signed for one more year. I think that last
year he got put into the top four because they
ran out of bodies on defense, right, They moved out
a couple of big bodies and they just need someone
who could play defense. I think Mira Mano was fine
as a six to seven for where this team is,
if this team is going for the Stanley Cup. No,
as a rebuilding team. Sure, he's a good five to

(19:45):
six and a million and a half or whatever they
pain in the next year. Like, I don't think that
we need to overanalyze this guy. He's good enough. Yeah,
one point this year, one point two five next year,
give him your you know, your fourteen and he's a
right shot, which they need a few of, like, you know,
give him, give him the number seven, and I think
it's fine.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, I guess for me, the reason I ask is
it's kind of fascinating in the trajectory that Miramanov has
been through since he's been here, because you mean, he
was top four when he got here. Of course at
the end of the year.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
But again, I think it was only tough four because
we ran out of bodies, right, we had no Hannif
and no Tanef. I don't think they brought him in
to be a top four and then they brought him
in because crap, we need a defenseman. Hey, look there's one.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah. I think if they had their druthers though, Dan,
I think if there was a way to do it. Unfortunately,
I just don't know where it makes it. I think
that Mirimanov is kind of in a rock and a
hard place because I think this is a guy that
I think probably could use AHL time the always hungry league,
as someone called it, I don't think. I don't think

(20:56):
he's quite an NHL defenseman. I think he's close to
being a regular NHL defenseman, but I.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Don't think But at this point, though Kevianys twenty seven,
if he's not an Angel defenseman, now he's not gonna.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Be Well, he's still he's still good. I mean, he's
he had a pretty significant injury that curtailed his career
for a bit.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
But I think if you're sending him down, then you're
gonna get passed by Solovyev Khu's Netsov porier, like you know,
especially on this team. If if that's not you. I
think if they send him down, he goes to the back
of line.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
And I think in you know, in fairness to mir Manov,
I think that his he was slotted into the top six,
and I think Pacaul has taken that spot. Yes, I'm
really proud of Braidon Paccall and what he's done. He
came in, it's kind of a nobody and you know,
I think Paul has taken that more than Mermanov has
not been given it. I think they're both given equal opportunity,

(21:50):
and Paul ran with it.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, I do agree with you. I think Braiden Ball,
I mean, there's no real issue on the right side
of this blue line with Anderson were at Paul. It's
the weft side that's been sort of more of the
question with and and you saw that missing Kevin Ball.
But Jake Bean probably is playing too much for what
Jake Bean can do, and Joel Hanley is probably playing

(22:13):
too much for what Joel Hanley can do, which is
part of the problem.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
And that's where again I think you'll probably see especially
Hanley rotated out, Like I can't see Hanley being in
the top four with Wiger moving forward, for you know,
the rest of the season. But I think between I
think the Hall stays in. But I think between Hanley
and and Bean, I think if you want to talk
about who's thoughts in there, I think Siloviev will get
some early looks on this road trip, if not tonight

(22:40):
against San Jose. I mean, what a great time to
put an HL guy in your lineup is when you're
playing an NHL team and you know, see see what
he can do. And I think, again it's going to
be his way to play himself out of a spot. Yeah, yeah,
but I don't think you want to keep Selova sitting
on your bench. You want him to develop, and so
if you're not going to play him, you gotta send

(23:01):
him back down.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, yeah, just to play. Yeah. The forward lines are
basically it's Kadri huperto Coronado who played against the Kraken.
You had Backland Zeri counter Zeri back with Blake, Backlan
and Coleman. You had Frost and Ferraby, the new Acquisitions

(23:23):
together with Eugor Sharon Govic, and then you had and
I know people are upset that Kevin Rooney is still
sitting on the fourth line. I'm going to explain this
to people as clearly as I can. Kevin Rooney, Ryan Lomberg,
Martin Prosposo with Adam Clackby at the extra forward Dan,
I think we both agree on this. If there was

(23:43):
a better fourth line center in this organization than Kevin Rooney,
he would play. But Clark Bishop didn't work there. Justin
Kirkland is hurt. They've had other injuries as well. The
reality is is, no matter how much people are complaining
about Kevin Roney being in the fourth line center, they
don't have an option. And I'm going to get to

(24:04):
something else about this. We'll talk about this when we
talk about Craig Conroy a little bit later. But ultimately,
they don't have anybody better than Kevin Rooney. And I know,
I see all these tweets, there's got to be somebody
better than Kevin Rooney. There's not. Unfortunately, I think we need.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
To qualify that there's nobody better as a fourth line center.
I do think Rory Kearns is better, but he's not
your fourth line center, and right now you want to
keep him in the American League to play top line
minutes as opposed to player fourth line center's role. I've
talked a lot of this about a lot on your
show and our show. You don't just put anybody anywhere
in your lineup. I'm a big believer that when you're
the GM, you call up the guy who you think

(24:42):
should fill that role.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Right.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
He called a different guy for a top six call
up than a bottom six call up than a fourth
line call up. I think they've tried. I mean they tried,
you know, Kearns, They've tried Bishop, you know, like you said,
they're kind of run out of center. And I guess
you could try Morton, but I'm not convinced that Morton
is ready yet. So yeah, I mean until somebody else

(25:06):
can show they can do this, you know, Rooney is
what you've got.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah, yeah, And it's I get it. People are people
are frustrated, but he's he's the best of what they got, unfortunately.
And but this is again, this is a first year
of a rebuilding team, and that's why you have a
Kevin Rooney in your lineup yours.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
Well, And that's what I was just about to say,
is you know what, in the end, why does it matter, right,
I mean, he's not It's not like Kevin Rooney by
himself is going to tank some you know, Stanley Cup
chance for.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
This team, right or like, yeah, I mean he.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Doesn't look good. He's thirty one, he's done at the
end of the year. So we ride him out and
we say goodbye.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yep, that's pretty much. Yet, that's that's it, Like there
doesn't need to be anything more than this.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Let's just say that if they needed to fix that role,
I'm sure that a fourth line center would have been
a fairly cheap acquisition call. But to me, there's no
point in paying it right now. If they were in
a different spot with this team and he was the
only issue, I would have paid the fifth fourth whatever
to acquire that position. Right now, there's no point, in
my opinion, of spending the asset to upgrade that position.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
No, there's really not, not not for someone like Derek
Ryan was available on Lavers, but there's there was no
need to put in a thirty eight year old center
to replace Kevin Rinny. Like they're really like, there's no
need to do it. So and I maybe we'll dig
into this. I think that the other thing, and I

(26:36):
think that this is something that I think the Flames
deserve some credit for is they have pretty much held
firm on their belief of what they need, what they need.
They're not going out of their way from it. They
made the one trade for Morgan frosted Royal Ferraby, but
those are two players that were in their age range, right,
that they were looking for between the twenty two and
twenty six year old. They haven't veered from that. They

(27:01):
have not veered from their conviction of what they they
know that they need.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
And I not just in the age range, but I
think also remembering the contracts on those right, I mean,
Farrabe a little expensive maybe at five million, but he's
locked up long term, Frost on an RFA. Like they're
in the age range, but they're also under team control
for a while.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, and that's what they're Yeah, and that's what they're
looking for. And again it you know, nobody is calling,
like nobody. I've seen some people criticize this trade, but
like nobody is saying that Morgan Frost and Joel Ferraby
are going to automatically hand the Flames get them into
the playoffs. But I think I think both of those

(27:40):
guys are competent NHL players, and you need competent NHL players,
and I have actually liked Morgan Frost a lot. I
think he's done. I think all things considered, I think
that I think I could see more to the end
of the year. Even next year, I think Morgan frost
role will increase. I think that I could see him

(28:05):
taking some of those Michael Backland minutes that Backland has
has used for all of those years.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
Right, so everyone who's sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
He's not an elite number one center. Need more than
an elite number one center. I would have argued before
that trade, I would argue, they need three centers.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Sure, And you know, I think a lot of fans
and we'll talk about this, I think later as well.
Put this, you know notion that if you have won
Elite Center, the Stanley Cup is yours for all eternity.
We might as well rename it the Harvey the Hound Cup,
because the'll be ours forever. Like you know, that's not happening.
Look at Edmonton's got elite center. They haven't won it, right,
I mean, SID hasn't won it every year, Like you know,

(28:48):
that's not the be all end all. And you know
you have to build a twenty three man roster. And
I agree with you. Frost is not a number one center,
But nor does Frost have to be a number one center.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
He doesn't. No, nope, you.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Know, and everyone that's criticized the trade that I've seen,
nobody has any real rhyme or reason why. Like, look
at what the Flames gave up. So they gave up
a guy who's who they would have had to pay
somebody to take, right they they gave up a guy
in Peltier who has had some ups and downs looking better,
but you have to give to get, And they gave
up a pick that you know, They've got a lot

(29:21):
of them. Like, I've yet to see anyone who's criticizing
this trade that I can actually see their point, Like
this is a great deal for the Flames. You need bodies,
you got good bodies. You gave up almost in my opinion,
you gave up almost nothing.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, so yeah, yeah, I I just so
kind of where they are right now, is there three
points behind Vancouver for the playoff for that final playoff spot,
They're five points behind the Kings for being in third,
and they're three points being out of the top ten.

(29:59):
So they're in a situation where they could end up
anywhere really in my opinion, Dan, I mean, I think
that the we we've been, we have been waiting for
this fade for most of the season. I think that
the fade has started. I don't think the Flames make
the playoffs. I'll just go on record and say that.

(30:22):
But what I do, what I hope is I hope
they battle hard to make the playoffs. And I hope that,
you know, like, we're gonna have this six game road
trip and it's going to be a tough road trip,
and I think, you know, I'm not expecting anything out
of this, but I just want to see the like
the players start, the players that need to grow start

(30:45):
to grow, like the Connors Areas, the Morgan Frost, the
Matt Coronado's, even the Kevin Balls, who are in a
very new situation being in a top four role, right
like just some and Dustin Wolf, right, those guys, if
they can make some steps learning what it's like to
play in the higher intense level of hockey, which is

(31:06):
going to be now, I think this helps the de
development of the Flames as much as trying to get
this top this warded Savior top ten pick.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Yeah, I mean Conray has built this team to compete,
and he said that right from the beginning, and I
think we've seen that all year, right And there's always
those fans that want this team just tank, tank tank,
get the top pick tank tank tank. Conray is expecting
them to compete. I think husks expecting them to compete.
I have no doubt this team will compete for the playoffs. Now,
are there ways to sort of, I don't know, help

(31:39):
yourself along to a top ten? Sure? Maybe again you
dress a player and put or dress a player normally
wouldn't and scratch player normally wouldn't and give someone a chance,
not that you're trying to tank, but you know, maybe
at some point you take a guy out the lineup
and put another guy in to give him a shot.
But even then there, I think they're gonna expect them
to be competitive with what they've got, everything in their
DNA and if we and how they're built and how

(32:01):
they played. Not every game's been great, but I think
the Flames are when we look at the season overall, Kevin,
I think that they're competing. I don't see that changing.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
How many times have we talked about the Flames having
a poor effort this.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Year, I mean game by game, yeah, I don't think
like I think there's been a few stretches here where
they've looked terrible, but that's to be expected for a
team that is with the roster they have, but.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Looking terrible and having a terrible effort or two different things.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
I think they had bad efforts in that Saint Louis stretch.
I think they had some bad efforts coming into this
break at the end of January, when they had that,
when they were playing Winnipeg, when they were playing Washington,
I thought they had some bad efforts like and then
that whole next week with Toronto, Colorado and Seattle. I

(32:55):
didn't think the effort was great. But you know again,
I mean, this is a team that, let's be honest,
is not financial defense, right, if you're going to go
very far, you, as you mentioned, you need some forwards.
Like I think that they're giving the best effort they
can on most nights with what they've got. Yeah, and
show me a team that looks great for eighty two games. Yeah,

(33:16):
it's a long season. Yea, Yeah, it's it is.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
And I think the I mean, with Dustin Wolf specifically,
just kind of you know, I think we're I mean,
I think I kind of came to the conclusion like
watching Dustin Wolf, he looked probably fatigued. But I also
I think the other thing to kind of just note

(33:43):
here is is this is a growing experience for Dustin
Wolf that I think he's going to solve. I precursed
this saying this what he's going to solve. The fact that,
like teams are getting a little bit of a book
on him too the more that he plays, and I
think Dustin Wolf's going to learn that. But also the

(34:05):
riggors of this, Like he's played long seasons in other leagues,
but he hasn't played a long season in the NHL,
and that's just a new challenge, right, It's a growth
thing and he's probably I mean, Ryan Huskers said, if
we need to play Dustin Wolf fifteen games in a row,
We're going to play Dustin Wolf fifteen games in a row.
This is a new new for him too, that he's

(34:26):
going to be sort of built in this spotlight. So
it's another learning curve that if he learns from it
and he's better for it, the organization is better for it.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
You said, this something he's trying to solve for what's
the problem.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Sorry, I said that again.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
You said this sun Hill solve for what's the problem.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Well, it's not a problem. It's a challenge, right, It's
a new challenge that he but it is, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Like this is not a unique problem, Dustin Wolf. This
is welcome to the NHL. Kid. I mean, with any
whether you're a forward, whether you're a goaltender, you know,
everyone needs to adjust the NHL level. I think in
some ways, Calgary Flames fans have put unrealistic expectations on
Dustin Wolf because the last time we had a goaltender
come in and we had a subpar team, that guy

(35:17):
put them on his shoulders and ran them all the
way to the finals in Kipp Rosof And I think
that some people are expecting him to do the same,
And I think that's unfair to Dustin Wolf. He's good.
He has growing pains. Every young goaltender has growing pains,
you know. I think, thank goodness that he's coming into
a team that he can grow into and he's not
expected to. All right, kid, we got a Stanley Cup team.

(35:37):
You're backstopping a good luck we don't make It's your fault. Right, Like,
he needs time to grow like anybody else. And and
you know, like when you're saying they got a book
on him, every team has professional video scouts.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
This is what they do. So every goalie they're going
to figure out. Yeah, exactly, this is the National this
is the best league in the world. It's in the
National Hockey League. People are people are going to be
prepared for him. Yeah, And I like, don't get me wrong, Dustin.
I'm not like, I'm not criticizing Dustin wolf I'm just
pointing out that they're new. There a new challenges ahead
for Dustin Wolfe. For sure. This is part of the

(36:09):
rebuilding process. And you know, I think that there's also
a lot of fans that think that just you can
walk into this league and you can dominate this league.
And I just it's just not That's not a realistic
expectation to have about somebody. It is. It is a

(36:30):
league that you like. I I've said this before, I
think ninety five percent of the players that have been
drafted need ahl or development time before they were in
the league. I think it's very rare. I even think
that you can make the argument. I mean, I mean,
Connor Madard is a franchise elite center. But I think

(36:53):
you look at Connor Bdard, He's been put in a
very awkward situation. He's in a major market. He needs
to be a face of a franchise that is not
only an on ice disaster, it's been an off ice disaster.
Put him in a Winter Classic.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Like I was talking to somebody about this over the
break and they said, what if the NHL change the
minimum age to play to twenty, that would force you
to keep these guys somewhere else for a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, Well, the NHL and AHL need to come to
some sort of agreement that players like a player like
Zane Perrek can go to the AHL because you're like
the the CCHL is probably not going to It's not
they're too good for it, but they're not good enough

(37:37):
for the NHL. They need to come to some sort
of agreement.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
And I think you could say, you know, we don't
want you raid in all your talent, right, but okay,
every team's allowed one guy every year if he was
drafted in the top two rounds or something that you're
allowed to have exceptional status for Yeah, or it doesn't
go to be all our twenty We're gonna rate all
our twenty year olds and send them down there. But okay,
you get one guy you draft in the top two
or three rounds who you can declare exceptional stats for.

(38:01):
And you know what, I think one thing you can
do to make some other hockey leagues more competitive you
can send one of those guys to the EHL as well.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah, that's possible too.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
You know, I think there could be the EHL could
have a neat niche if they're kind of the place
you go for a year, almost as you're finishing school
before you go to the AHL.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
But yeah, I mean, Dustin Wolf has looked great at
every level he's at. He's looking great as the Flames goalie.
I think it's unfair to expect him to, you know,
be the next week at Kippersoft and take this team
on his shoulders and run all the way. Yes, he's
had some challenges. Who hasn't shown me a flame this year?
Has not had some challenges? Right, Like this is this

(38:41):
is Dustin's chance to learn this and the make mistakes
and to grow from those mistakes.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, And I think that we need to understand the
other thing that I think that needs to be said here.
When we say competitive, I don't think that they mean
Stanley Cup contender competitive. No, they know that team needs
to build, rebuild, if we could use that word. But

(39:06):
I also think that this, you know, the danger that
has happened in a number of other these other situations
is the effort has been less than exceptional. And I
think the flames are like, no, we need an effort. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
And and to me, putting an effort just means the
opposite of tanking. Right. I don't think anyone expected this
team coming in to make the playoffs. I don't even
think we expect them to be I know I didn't
three points out of the playoffs. What I expect them
to do is put in the effort, learn from this
and let these young guys grow, right, Yeah. And you know,

(39:40):
and and whether growing means getting better or not, I mean,
you know, we talked about forward lines earlier, Apostles back
on the fourth line. Last we've seen him on the
first line. Who is he? Maybe growing does not necessarily
mean he gets better, but we understand what he is
as a player, and that's important too. Yeah, you know, Pacaul,
if we were running for the Stanley Cup, we would

(40:00):
not have given Braden Bahol the chances he's had to
become what he is. Right, to me, being competitive just
means going out there and giving it what you've got
so we understand better what these pieces are.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and just understanding what and the identity
of this team going forward and what they want to build.
Like it's easy, Like people talk about the draft picks
and you know all of this, and and that's great,
but what are you building to, Like what type of
players are you drafting?

Speaker 3 (40:33):
Who is And I think also allowing guys, even veteran guys,
to make mistakes. I mean, we have to admit that
Jonathan Huberto has looked a lot different this year in
the last year, and I think it's because he didn't
have the pressure and he was allowed to make mistakes.
He was allowed to try new things in his game.
And to me, that's part of that. Being able to
compete and not saying, Okay, you've just got to go

(40:54):
out and do this thing because you need to be
in the playoffs. It's about all right, we want to
you know, this wasn't working, Let's try this. Okay, that worked,
Let's keep doing that. Like you know, and you've got
the right coach for that. I believe the Flames just
need these guys to go out there and give it
there all and go from there.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
I would argue that Jonathan Huberto has been the most
improved plane this year.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Yeah, I would agree.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
I mean it's not been outstanding, but it's not been everything.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
And it hasn't been outstanding, but it hasn't needed to
be outstanding.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Nope, Nope. I think like a couple of years ago
when these trades happened, when Cadarine and Huberto happened, I
think everybody was hoping and I think even the Flames
organization was hoping this was Monahan and Gudrow and it
just didn't. It didn't pan out that way because their
means are Cadorine and Huberto, not Monahan and Goodrow. Yep.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
But you know, and I mean talking about you know,
improvements and being competitive. Look at Cornado right, spent most
of the year in the American League last year, now
a first line right winger, Like you've allowed him to
make those mistakes and have those challenges and work his
way up the lineup, and I think, you know, we've
we've got a better piece because of it. I think
Connor z are same thing. He's been allowed to work

(42:05):
and crow and be a winger in a center and
understand what works and what doesn't. That's what was important
this year.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm with you. So let's because
I kind of I think we're building off some of this,
the commentary that we've heard on social media through various podcasts,
videos and things like that, and I kind of we

(42:32):
kind of I kind of want to spend some time
here kind of responding to some of the issues that
are out there with the Flames or the perceptions that
are out there, which the first one is the need
that they don't have elite talent. And of course you
even heard that all man, it would be great if
the look at Nathan McKinnon, wouldn't it be great to

(42:52):
Flames have elite talent. They do need elite talent. I
don't think that anybody has argued that they don't have
elite talent. But you also need depth to win. You
can you do not win with elite talent and elite
talent alone. You need depth up and down the lineup

(43:13):
you look back, I mean you if you want to
talk about all those teams that have top ten picks
in their or top picks in their drafts and on
their Stanley Cup roster, look at the depth and look
at the drafts around the build, and look at the
drafts that they've done after the second round of how

(43:34):
they built the team. It's it's not just elite talent.
Elite talent gets you gets tickets, gets you tickets in
the door, but it doesn't guarantee you a Stanley Cup.
The Tampa Bay Lightning, I mean you look at the
Pittsburgh You talked about the Pittsburgh Penguins. They've had Sidney
Crosby and Danny Melkin. They should have had a dynasty.

(43:55):
They only they want you in a row.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
I mean, I think even the modern day version of
that is the tem Bay Lightning, right, who were either
winning or really competitive for years. And that was a
team I would say arguably didn't have, you know, the
superstar player.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
It was a committee. Yeah they had, and I mean
they set the record for points in twenty eighteen and
were swept in the first round of the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
I mean, even look at last year's winner, right, I
think that a big reason Edmonton didn't win last year
is they don't have a full roster of NHL ready players,
and Florida did. And Florida got something needed from everybody,
and even a guy like Ryan Lomberg, who didn't play
a ton, played his part to get there. Yeah, you know,
And this is one thing I think fans don't look

(44:45):
at is they want.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
The one big name.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
And you know, you look at other sports, you know,
you look at say, football, you can get away with
winning often because you've got the one really good quarterback.
It's a bunch of big dudes in front of them.
You know. In baseball you can often get away with
one really good pitch in one really good batter, you know,
and a marginal lineup around them in a lot of ways.
Like you know, I think fans want that to be
the case in hockey, and it's not. And yes, the

(45:09):
Flames maybe don't have the elite guy, but let's build
all the other pieces right now while we can.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah, and that's the important part of this is this
is not just about how you draft in the first
It's about how you draft in each round, right, And
I would also go ahead, well, I think that people
forget that there's going to be mistakes and things that
happen that just simply don't work out. Like if you
look at part of the problem with the Buffalo Sabers. Actually,

(45:39):
if you look at the Buffalo Sabers, Dan, they've drafted fantastic,
they have done a fantastic job. I drafted m But
they just they have poorly developed players and they do
not have a culture where players want to stick around.
And I don't think it's about the palm trees.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Dan, I know, because I mean I think I think
that's part of it. But I think you'll overlook that
if you're successful, right, I think the wife, the you know,
the kids, they want to live in a nice place.
But I mean, heck, if Winnipeg goes all the way,
guys are gona say, I don't want to go to
Winnipeg to not win the thing I've played my whole
life for. You'll go there and you'll suffer through it

(46:18):
for a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
I mean, Shiflee and Hellibuch signed a long term in
Winnipeg and you know they don't even have an airport reportedly.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Yeah, you know, I mean, you know, And if you
look at the other thing I think we have to
look at too, is yes, you need high end talent,
you don't necessar to draft it. I mean one of
the most impactful players for Florida last year is Matthew
could Chuck, who was not their draft pick. Nope, right, Like,
you can bring this talent in from other places when
the time is right. Yes, And remember that Matthew ka

(46:52):
Chuck played one year in Florida, Like he was a
Calgary flame up until last year. Right, so he went
in for one year and got the Cup and looks
good again this year. You don't necessarily need this guy
to be you know, born and bred and you know
bleeding the Sea of Red.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
No, I mean two years because I mean he took
Florida to the finallygainst Vegas and then right, yeah, yeah,
so two seasons. This is his third year in there.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
I mean, so you know, like, yes, yes, they need
a star. But you know, at the other side, Kevin,
we can find just as many times that a team
has had a top draft pick and it hasn't turned out, right, Yeah, Like,
just because you get that top ten pick, doesn't this
sly mean? Do you want me to go through some
of the names that you know people were excited about
since two thousand haven't turned out to be that star.

(47:40):
Go for it, uh two thousand and five. S Gilbert
brul A drafted number six by Columbus number UH number
six in two thousand and eight, also by Columbus, Nikita Philotov,
Nell Yakopov number one by Edmonton. Even a guy like
Taylor Hall right draft high. Yes he's an NHL or

(48:01):
I don't think any of us would say that he
was ever that star player that took any team on
their back, Nico Heisher good NHL or not that star
player that you know has really come out that way.
Like you know, yes, you have a chance to get
that guy, but you also have a chance I bet
if we look at some of these teams to find
that guy in the second round as well, or even
later in the first round. Like I think sometimes fans

(48:24):
put way too much emphasis on oh my god, you
know it has to be a top ten or will
never get better.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, it's I mean, I think to team, I mean,
people forget Jack Eikob was the trade from Buffalo to
to Vegas Sidney Crosby. People forget this. I just need
to remind everybody that was the year of the lockout
Pittsburgh did not tank for Sidney Crosby. They won a
watery draft pick for Sidney Crosby, like I just.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
And even Edmonton, who I would say has tanked for picks.
How's that turned out for them?

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Well, this is their second time through it, because the
first one was an absolute disaster.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
And even now, I mean they've sure, they've made it
to the end and they made it to the finals,
they haven't won them. Like you know, how many kicks
of the can do you get? The former David said,
I'm out of here.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
I sidebar, I'm I I do wonder if this is
the year that I think we're going to be just
I think we're going to be a little angry that
the others were in the Cup. There's a part of
me that just wonders out. But anyway.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Could be. I mean, you know, look at teams like
New York, right, I mean, I think it's been a
long time since the Rangers have had that elite player
that they drafted. But I would say they've consistently had
good teams that they put together from strong picks. Dallas, right, Dallas,
the model Calgary's used as a team. They want to
look at Dallas. I don't think since Mike Madana has

(49:56):
had a star player they drafted, but they've got really good.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Your high school would be one, but they don't like
they've yeah, very consistently.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Yeah, and they're getting that talent throughout, and I think
we're getting away from I mean, fans love the superstar.
Media loves the superstar, right, the guy that you can
put your hat on and say this is my guy
and get his name on your jersey. But like you said,
I think we have to remember that we need all
these players together to make this work right. We need

(50:25):
everybody to be playing the best they can. And even
a guy like Matt vegrit In, who the Flames got
late in the draft, I think is going to turn
into something. Will he be a superstar maybe not, but
I don't think he needs to be. And I don't
know that the one superstar is as important as he
used to be.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
And it's a team game. But Yors is stricken by
the way as a fourth round pick in the two
thousand and four NHL Jery drop, and he's one of
the I would argue he's the face of that franchise.
I mean he was paid like one, right.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
So I mean even look at Boston. Yeah, they've taken
a step back this year, but they had some great
players and you know how won the Cup in you
know years. So just because you have great players, doesn't
this mean you're gonna you know you're gonna win.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, you've got a one in thirty two shot at
winning the Stanley Cup every year. And I think the
teams that do it, they're not all done the same way.
But I mean, like there's you do need. Nobody's saying
you don't need elite talent, but you've you build it
through different ways.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
It's not and I don't think the Flames need it
now like fans want them to tank and get this guy.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Now, what's the rush? Why do we need this guy
next year? And this draft, from everything that I understand,
is not a great draft, which we just take a
pause here because I I was doing some thinking about this.
If the Montreal Canadians do not select this for this

(51:55):
pick for this draft, I think it's essentially an unprotected
pick next year because I think the way I understand it,
I think you understand the same way. The Canadians take
the higher of the top Flames Panthers pick next year
and that's a that's a reasonable chance looking at this
team that they're a top ten. They will be in

(52:17):
the top ten next year too.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Right, So so when you're saying top ten, you're saying
drafting the top ten or drafting twenty to thirty or
twenty to thirty.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I can take my understanding of this is they take
the highest of the Flames or the Panthers pick whoever
it is the higher of the two picks.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
They higher, meaning the furthest the closest to thirty two.
So if you have a number ten and number twenty,
you'd give up your number twenty.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
So if the Flames picked first and the Panthers picked second,
the Canadians would pick the Flames.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Pick Okay, yeah, the Wolves, right, yeah, Well that's why
I wanted to clarify, because generally you would think of
one as the lower Well I guess it. Yeah, you
can look at either way, right, one can be the
first pick, so it's the highest pick, or you could
say it's the lowest pick. So that's that's what we
got to clarify there.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yeah, but this that draft next year is reportedly a
better draft than this year. And that's the other thing
that people are not talking enough about just because there's
a top ten pick in a draft doesn't mean that
that would be a top ten pick in every draft.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
Yeah. Well, I think some of those names I read
out right were the best player available, but not necessarily
the best players.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah. Yeah. Brian Burke has often talked about the Sadeen
when he pulled off to Daniel and Hendrick sadein which
was two and three. He has often talked about the
reason that he was able to pull that trade off
was how bad that draft was that year. Yeah, So

(53:55):
I mean you have to also take that into context
with this as well. It's leak, yo, it's not just
about oh, we've got a top ten like it's not
top ten pick. It's there's a lot to it, and
we're we'll talk about the latest top ten pick with
the Flames here in a moment. But the other perception

(54:17):
is they've.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Been sorry, well we're while we're on that. Kevin, Like
I've said this on our show and I still stand
to this, is if there there's you don't need that
top guy this year. This is gonna be a three, four,
five year rebuild, So why you know, why be bad now? Like,
let's let these guys try this. Let's let them run.

(54:39):
Let's let them attempt to make the playoffs. They do great,
if they don't, great too, Like, let's let them, you know,
have a run at this, see what they can do.
And we can always find that that last guy later on.
We can find that next year, the year after, the
year after that. I think the Flames will They're not
gonna be in the same level every year. They're not
gonna be you know, this tween er team every year,
and I think next year they'll probably do it worse.

(55:00):
But I think that you know, there's no there's not
a rush to get that guy. Let's build the team
around him, build some great chemistry, and then almost drop
that player in in a year or two. Yeah yeah,
And even like you said, get the guy next year,
put him in the A for a year or two.
Like to me, there's not an immediate need. It's not
like we're one elite centerment away from hoisting Lord Stanley's mug.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Yeah. Yeah, takes it takes time.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
It takes time. And again, anyone who's saying that, you know,
they they want them to get this number one pick,
and I get it, and I understand that go back
and look at some of the best teams in the
league and look at where their players came from.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
If we look at Vegas, Jack eicheld their number one
centers not a pick of theirs. Thomas Hurtle, not a
pick of theirs, right, those are guys they've acquired, you know.
Look at even Dallas Rupe Hints not a you know,
a number one pick. Matt DeShane not their pick, right,
Like Michael Granlin not their pick. So you know, I

(56:01):
think that you you can't just assume that getting the
top pick solves all these problems. Look at winnipegt of
Vladislav Nomesakov not their pick, right, you know, Elers, you know,
need a rider, like some of these guys were their picks,
but not necessarily the top one or two or three.
And you know you've got to draft well throughout and

(56:21):
build that whole line up and the flames of starting that.
But none of these teams that we just talked about
either were built in the season.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Oh and it takes like it just takes it takes
time to like I think I knew the other unfortunate
part of this, and I mean Conray was part of
the organization so I guess he gets some criticism for it,
but I also, like, I think that you can't blame

(56:49):
I don't know if it's fair to completely criticize Conroy
in this new way that they're doing things and kind
of compare what happened with Tree Living and what happened
with Feaster and all of these things four right, like
these are this is a different time like the past
in the past, yeah and yeah, and the Flames tried
to rebuild. They went six years or they went they

(57:10):
had a five year stretch not making the playoffs, and
they drafted like crap yep under J Feaster, Like like
Brian Burke literally took over and literally said that J.
Feaster did not do a good job.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Yeah, and you know what, show me a team that
has been great from every gem in their history, right,
like every the Flames have their blemishes, the Young Gun years,
the Jay Feaster years, Like, show me a team that's
been successfully successful. Right. Detroit set ups, Detroit said downs,
Boston set up. Boston's had downs, even teams that were
here since we came in, right, I mean, Winnipeg came
in same time Calgary did, Edmonton came in the same time,

(57:46):
Calgary did. Those teams have not been successful every year either.
Like you have ups, you have downs. You can't blame
the It's like, you know, if if you buy a
house from the nineteen eighties and as a leak, you
can't blame the current owner for that necessarily, right, he
can't blame the last owner of the team or last
GM for all your problems.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Yeah, it's right.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
I mean, if if Conray had a time machine and
he could go back to I don't know, nineteen eighty
and do things differently, I'm sure he would. But from
the team that he inherited, I think he's done a
fantastic job.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
He has. By the way, Connor Helibuk was a fifth
round pick in twenty twelve.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
I mean, you know, and we talked about Wolf earlier, right,
a seventh round pick, Like you know, sometimes the best
players are not you know, the top draft pick.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Yeah, and this is an organization that the three faces
of this organization, the four faces of it.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
I mean, you know, even sorry before we go any
for the rupe hints, right, number one center in Dallas,
forty ninth overall pick, like you know, a great pick,
and arguably they would not be where they were without him,
not necessarily your top five, not even your top thirty.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
The four faces of this franchise, Lanny McDonald, Johnny good
Meet your Kippers off Jerome Againla. Three of them were
acquired by trade and Goodrou was a fourth round pick.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Mhmm. So no, I mean but if you if you
look at the guys in the rafters, right, Vernon really
the only guy up there that that the Flames.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Drafted, and Albacitus, well he should He's not up there,
but he should be up there.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
Well technically, I mean he's forever a Flame, right, yeah,
new and Diyke's up there too, but yeah, it's it
depends how you look at things. Yeah, you know. And
then I mean there's been you know, the Flames drafted
Brett Hall, right, the Flames drafted Jasha Gehre, guys that
they've had good picks, and I mean, you know, arguably
Brett Hall, I mean wanted out for whatever, you know,

(59:43):
whatever reason, and you got to move them like you can't.
You know, I've seen a lot of players online too, Oh,
the Flames should trade Caudrey. I was talking to someone
on Twitter through the fireside chat account. The Flame should
move Caudre to Buffalo for cousins. Well, Cadre's got a
no trade. How are you convinced them to go there?
You know, we're not playing on our Xbox here. We
can't just change history. We've got to deal with the

(01:00:04):
pieces we have and the conditions of those deals. If
you can tell me a great way to sell Buffalo
to Cadri, let's do it. But as you mentioned earlier, Hey,
you want to go to a place that doesn't know
how to handle her talent, the fumbles everything, Yeah, you know,
we we'll happily send you there. If I was him,
I say, no, I don't want to go there. Why
would I want to go there?

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Like you, we have to admit. And yes, maybe you
could debate he shouldn't have no trade, and that's a
great debate, but it is what it is. Right, he
has the deal he has. We got to work with it. Yeah,
but if anybody has an idea of how to send
him to Buffalo and get him a convince there, tweet
the flames. I'm sure they'd love to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Yeah. Yeah, we and most of the people that are
tweeting are not living in Buffalo.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
No, but I mean even if you're not. Maybe you're
a Buffalo expert and you're not living there, but you know,
you still got to remember that. You know, you often
will have to convince these guys because they have that
no trade and how are you gonna do that? Why
would someone want to do that? So if you don't,
then you're you know, I keep hearing Dylton Cousins name
coming out. So if you're not, if you can't convince

(01:01:13):
your top players to want to go there, then what
pieces would we have to send for Cousins?

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
I mean they're not they're not taking Rooney and you know,
mere Manov and mister considerations.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Yeah, that's future considerations to you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
By the way, Well, at what point does he become
present considerations? Well at some point we have to consider them. Yeah,
And do you have to do you have to report
to the league when you've made that consideration? Do you
have to call a league and say, uh, I considered
Montreal today?

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Was it there a just there was a trade Gregory
Dennisinko was traded to from Not like that Future Considerations
was traded again.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Yeah, I don't even know who owns mister Considerations at
this point. But the deadline's coming, I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
But you know, like if you eat Montreal smoked meat,
you have to call the league and sayd a delicious sandwich.
And I thought about Montreal today and somebody says, all right,
consideration has been made, Like you know, it's I don't know.
They say you can't trade for nothing, but yet you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Yeah, you can't. You can't trade. Yeah, like you have
to have something in there, but you yeah, it's but
you don't. I mean, consideration is nothing. Yeah, yeah, I
mean you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
Know, I think even if you get traded for a
bag of pucks, at least you're traded for something.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Yeah, for sure. Let's get to that part of it here.
I think the expectation, I mean, if the Flames keep losing,
the Flames lose, we're gonna see more of this. So
the expectation to trade Anderson's, the Cadres, the Coleman's. I mean,

(01:02:53):
I think the drama will go out for the backlands,
the Wigers, all of the bats, trade the Bats. I
guess is the easiest way to make this argument is,
first of all, I think you and I have had
the discussion of Rasmus Anderson. I'm still I'm still not
there a trade Rasmus Anderson. Like, I know that there's

(01:03:18):
a lot of people that think that this is going
to be a eight year, big contract and probably a
little bit of an overpay. Like ideally, I think you
I kind of want him, even with the cap going up.
I kind of would like to keep him. I think
there's an argument to try to keep him within weaker

(01:03:39):
money if he can. Uh, And I know that there's
a lot of there's a lot of play people. I
do see the argument though, that he would probably get
more as a free agent.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
So I think I think, to me, Kevin Anderson and
Backland especially, you do whatever they want to do. If
back of the comes student says guys, I want to
go win a cup, you honor that and you move in. Yeah,
I think if if you know, Anderson comes to you
and says, guys, I want to get out of here.
You know, I don't want to go through the rebuild.

(01:04:13):
I tried it. It's not for me. You move on
from them. But I don't think that you're out there
shopping either one of those guys. No, and even you know,
look at teams in rebuilds. Look at all these teams
you know, whoever fans want to point to for a rebuild,
the best ones have always had veteran pieces. You don't
have a bunch of eighteen year old guys who can't
go to the bar and go to bed nine thirty
on road trips like you need to have, you know,

(01:04:33):
late twenties guys, early thirties guys. You got to have
the veterans to show them how this works. And I
see no reason why you want to move those players
because again, if you look in the covers, it's gonna
be hard to replace those players. And I don't know
that you're gonna get what you think you're going to
for all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Yeah, that's the other thing. We'll get to the perceived
replacement for Anderson in a second. With tadri the challenge
is going to be him with the cap going up.
I don't know if anybody is going to take that
whole salary.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
He's thirty four. Who's gonna want to take that on
till twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Yeah, that's a tough trade, and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Again I don't think it needs to be I don't
think he needs to be traded. No either is cadri
An Nhlor yes, Yes, is cadriy a liability of this team?

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
He has defensive deficiencies. I think it's you know, but if.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
You got if you have two young players like you
know last year's quote unquote Kaudre and the kids, right,
if can he help build talent on this team?

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Yes, he can actually team around. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
And I mean as a question, I'm asking if i'm GM.
I mean, I applied for the GM job. They obviously
didn't hire me. But That's what I'd be looking at.
Is is he valuable? Maybe he's not worth seven million dollars.
Maybe it's not my first line center. I think a
thirty eight year old Nasam Kadri is your third line
center who can prop up some young players. Still valuable,
so keep him around.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Yeah. Then Blake Coleman, who is a UFA in twenty eight,
I do, I mean a village thirty three, Blake Coleman
has a difficult player traded next year? I could too.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Yeah, I could see Coleman be traded, but I could
just as easily see Coleman sticking around. I don't think
you have to trade him next year. I think you
definitely if he doesn't want to come back, trade him
in his last year twenty six, twenty seven. But if
you get the right deal, I think you move Coleman.
But you're not again. I don't think you're out there shopping.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
No, and then Rasmus Anderson, Yeah we're.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
I mean, I mean, even if Coleman said to the Flames,
hey I want to come back, I'd bring him back.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I think Anderson's the guy you get something for, But
I don't know if you actually help your organization losing
your number one defenseman.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
Well, this this leads to the other conversation that I
think that people are getting there. There's good reason to
be excited about Zaying Peract because he is producing at
a record pace in the OAHL. And I don't get
me wrong, that's exciting, and it sounds like he is

(01:07:27):
he he understands what it's going to take to get
into the National Hockey League, and I do believe he's
going to be an NHL or again. But where I'm
concerned or confused or why I want to push back
is I don't believe that you should be building a
franchise around a guy that has not played one NHL game.
And I like, I get the hype, but I want

(01:07:50):
I still still need to see him in the National
Hockey League.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
I mean, let's let's talk about the worst case scenario there.
You trade away Anderson, you trade away weaker. Now you're
saying Perek is the man. Perek comes in, blows out
his knee first year, and now you've got what Bean
and pacalls you as your top or Solovev and you
know Pooria is your top two. Like I agree with you.

(01:08:15):
You know, keep even if Pacall comes in, and even
if he's wonderful, and even if he's the next Kale mccarr,
the next you know, Al mckinness or you know, the
next whoever. Your favorite best defenseman in the world is
Ray Bork. He still needs somebody to play with. So
Keith Anderson here to be that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Yeah, like yeah, And I mean I know that everybody
is also excited because you because the depth on the
blue line in terms of prospects is pretty solid. You
got Hunter Perscage hanging around, You've got Poria, You've got Soloviev.
We've talked about Yank's netsop. They they're is pieces here,

(01:08:54):
but you can't They're not all going to be developing
at the same time, and they're not going to be
what everybody is projecting, like.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
No, and even if they are, they're gonna take time
to get there. Yeah yeah, right, Like you know, even
a guy like Hunter Pristavitch, I think, you know, you're
not gonna see him come in next year and immediately
he's top four, you know. I think he's gonna take
time to get there. And I think even Zaane Perek,
I don't know who's gonna translate as well the Angel game.
And we've already seen Zane Perek a lot of times

(01:09:26):
coming out and you know, not looking great as a
defensive defenseman. He's a great offensive guy. I think he
needs work on his defensive side, and I think there's
gonna be some some work that has to be put
in for that, and I don't and I think he's
gonna take some time to adjust to being a top
two guy because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
Yeah, yeah, like kind of when I I I don't
know if this is a fair comparison, but the cautionary
tale to me is Evan Bouchard and Edmonton, who has
some dynamic offensive skills, but you do see at times
there's still complains about his defensive game. I could see

(01:10:04):
that with Paraga at the start, that that's something that
that Prakas struggle could struggle with the could he be
a franchise elite top five defenseman. We hope so, but
that's I don't think that that's a realistic expectation, and
that's sort of I think the other problem with this
argument is they're all of these this top ten pick

(01:10:26):
that's coming and and you bought them out for all
of these picks, and they're gonna get They're not going
to be the franchise saviors you think that they are.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Because again, even even if they might be, it's I
think it's gonna take time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Yeah, look at Quinton. A good example of this is
quint he is in Vancouver who, like everybody was excited
about Quinn Hughes and there's no question about it, Like
he's been a dynamic piece for the Canuction since the start,
but he's not the same player that he was when
he started. Yeah yeah, I mean he wasn't I believable

(01:11:00):
facial hair when he started. As an example, I think sports.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
Sports have got to the point where fans are just
excited by trades and moves and you know, everybody wants
to see a trade every day if they could trade trade, trade, trade, trade,
And I think since we have to just you know,
there's that old saying you got to know whe to
hold them and when to fold them right, And I
think right now, fans, especially if you're a you know,
a fan of the Flames, you got to hold them

(01:11:24):
until you better understand what's in your hand. And I'm
not certain right now what's in the Flames hand. Like
you said, there's a lot of good talent, there's a
lot of good prospects. Who knows what's there. But why
are we moving every piece out. I'm not saying don't
make a move. If the right move comes up, you
take it. But I don't think you're out there shopping
your your veterans. Yeah, I mean, if you're over twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Six out you go. Like, that's the wrong way to
look at this. And I think people need to understand
this about the trade deadline, as I think we're gonna
have all these rumors of like, oh, they're shopping this
guy and this guy. Everybody's gonna ask about every because
that's the way of the trade deadline. But you're not
training everybody at that Even if the Flames do fade

(01:12:06):
out of this race. They're not trading Cadre, Coleman, and
Anderson at the trade deadline, Like I don't expect that,
Like that's not a reasonable expectation, and I.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
Know, no, it's it's not. And you know, if anytime
somebody says they want to trade those guys, my question
is what are you getting back? And you know who's
gonna make that deal with you? And remember you can't
just this is not you know, Craig the Conqueror just
goes to Bufflins that you shall take my garbage and
you shall give me a top prospect. Like what are

(01:12:38):
you getting back? And why does that team want to
do the deal. And that's where people can't answer that question.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Yeah, and if you're trading Cadri, I mean you're playing
Kevin Rooney higher in the lineup.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
Yeah, but again Cadri has a no movement deal, So
convince me why Cadre's gonna waive that. Like, take all
these things in consideration when we're fantasy booking.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
And with cad if you remember back when he signed,
he took forever to sign that year because he was
very thoughtful where he wanted to go and I think
he's also going to be very thoughtful where he wants
to go going forward, for sure. And I mean I
think there's other personal considerations for Cadre that it's you know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
But again, like, okay, so let's just use Kadri. You've
mentioned the name a few times. What do you get
for Nasam Kadri?

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
I don't think you. I don't think you're gonna get
what you think you got for No.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
So then why move him?

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
I mean if he was if he was bad in
the dressing rumor some on that, sure, move on from
him right now. I see no reason why you should
move on for any of these guys. We could speculate,
we could speculate. Dylan Cousins, I don't think he's the answer.
I mean, he's a piece you know, you're you're not
gonna get, But Dard you're not gonna get, you know,
Matve Mitchkoff like, sure, you'll have some pieces maybe, but

(01:13:57):
I just don't see how the Flames are better off
by moving these players for where they are in their cycle.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
And the Dylan Cousins concern for me ultimately is I
don't like that contract, to be honest with you, it's like,
I gotta let's get to the roster that I'm still
not a huge fan of how all puck Pedia is.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Dylan Cousins deal is seven point one until twenty eight,
twenty nine, or sorry, twenty seven to twenty eight.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
So really it's the same length as an it's twenty thirty.
It's twenty thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
Oh, you're right, okay, So he's also younger though, I mean,
if you're willing to have an old Cadre, you could
be willing to have an old Cousins, right, They're making
about the same money, So I get that, But why
does Buffalo want Cadre?

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Yeah? Where what what is Buffalo going to benefit from
nasen Cadre?

Speaker 3 (01:14:56):
Like at this point, you know Buffalo probably doesn't wouldn't.
I mean, you probably don't give Manderson because I think
they've got a good defensive corps. So let's just use
Dylan Cousins here. So now you're taking guys like Czari
out of your roster, you might be taking guys like
Coleman out of your roster, and who are you replacing
those guys with? Like I think the assets is gonna
do again realistically looking at contract clauses and stuff like that.

(01:15:21):
You're not giving them Hubertough Like, if you could do
a straight up shirt Cadre for cousins, maybe Huberto for cousins.
Maybe it's not gonna be that. So are you willing
to give up Coronado and Zari? Like, I don't see
how this makes the Flames better.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
No, And I'm not entirely that that contract in the contract,
and just that that contract concerns mere where the Flames
are at now. And that's the same thing with the
people wanting Petterson. That's an eleven point six million dollar
contract with a no movement clause that you're locked into.
And I know that the cap is going up, but
I think you still have to be very realistic about

(01:15:55):
what you need to do going forward. And I'm not.
I mean, there's a lot of questions around Peterson, and
if it was under ten million, I think the Flames
should have a longer look. But eleven point six is
a lot, even in this cap era for right now
half a point a game player.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
And yes the Flames are and yes the Flames have
cap room now, but if you think they're gonna go
get that elite centerment or draft that guy. You're gonna
need to pay that guy. You're gonna get pay Dustin
Wolf here in a couple of years, like I do.
Only they want to just be spending money for the
sake of bringing in a star player now when it's
not time. Let's get our pieces locked in, Let's give

(01:16:37):
this some time. Fans are not patient. Fans think you
can trade your way out of this problem. I don't
think you do. I mean, could you sure? But I
think you're We saw this one year which we're a
living too. You know, the year they brought into folding
all that. I tried to trade his way in the playoffs.
It didn't work, and I think he set the organization
back with a number of those trades. Haminek giving up first,
you know a lot of those things. I know it sucks.

(01:16:58):
I know we want to see progress now, Yes, progress,
Flames win, give it time. Let Conrad do this. Yeah,
and again, look at any other NHL team, any other
fan base has gone through a rebuild. We really have not,
not not like a true like in the nineties. I
don't think it was a rebuild. I think it was

(01:17:18):
a were poor.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Well, it was kind of a It was the bird
nineties version of rebuild and being poor. But it was
marketed as young guns, so it was market as young guns.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
But I mean, if you look at the picks they
were making, I don't think they were trying to get
out of that and be competitive. I think they were
just trying to you know, the Canadian doll. I mean,
look at all the Candan teams that left the league
at that point because they couldn't afford to compete. Right,
we lost Quebec, we lost Winnipeg, right like, you know,
the Flames barely hung on.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
I don't think they're trying to rebuild and they're trying
to build what they could afford. Yeah, I can like,
but I at the same time, like I just what
I'm putting, Like some people are saying, we've never rebuilt
it before. I think the Flames have tried to do
some rebuilding. They have drafted since two thy and twelve,

(01:18:11):
I would say two thousand between around there, since the
Sean Monaghan pick anyway, whenever that was. The drafting has
certainly improved, But there was a long stretch of this
organization's draft history that was very poor.

Speaker 3 (01:18:27):
I mean, to Chuck Rico Fada, Yanny Snaburin. You know,
even I mean Chuck Kobasu, I don't think turned out
the way they want him to. Eric Nystrom didn't turn
out that way they wanted him to. Matt Pellock, Leland Irving. Yeah,
I mean, you know, and when I guess, I when

(01:18:48):
I say that they're not, I only they're really rebuilt.
Again if you look at I mean, okay, let's go
back to the nineties here, they made some you know again,
I think they were trying to build a team on
the cheap. But also I think they were drafting poorly
because they weren't spending the money where they needed to
be to bring in the right players. And I think
that you know, they may or the right scouts or

(01:19:09):
what you know, to find the right players, like I
think this team was. I don't know that I would
call that a real rebuild because I don't think that
there was a I don't think we ever saw the
way out of it. I think we're just clowned to survive.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
Yeah, well there was to save our flames that year too.

Speaker 3 (01:19:25):
Right, yeah, in that era, right, So yeah, And I
mean if you talk to people around there, they said
they've oh Forden happened then we probably still wouldn't have
that team in Calgary. Yeah, right, So I don't know again,
I mean, look at other teams, Look at Winnipeg, look
at Quebec at the time, right, I mean, everybody was struggling.
Edmonton was struggling as well. I think, you know, they
had owners that were more patient and so to Calgary,

(01:19:47):
and that's why they're still around. But you know, it
was hard to be Canadian team at that point. I
think they were just trying to survive.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Yeah, and that could be a challenge that this the
Canadians teams deal with going forward, depending on the political
situation of what happens. We're not going to get into that,
but that's I think though.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
With the CBA and stuff, you're never gonna see that
kind of disparity again, though, because you now have a
league minimum a league maximum. I mean, I remember one
time the Rangers signed Bobby hole Leak to be the
third line centerment paid them more than Calgary could afford
to pay their first line centerment. Like, we're not going
to have that kind of disparity anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Yeah, And Theo Fleury was massively overpaid by the Rangers
that year too.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
And that's it, and those American teams could snipe guys
from us just by paying the more, right, Like, I
think that we're in for better for worse, a parody
air of the NHL, where if you want to, you
can afford to pay anybody, how badly do you want them.
You can't afford to pay everybody, but you can afford
to pay anybody. Yeah, yeah, right, I mean even look

(01:20:52):
at Toronto, right, I mean, they've got a big name
coming off the books this summer. If they want to,
they cant afford them. They'll make sacrifices, but they'll afford them.
If McDavid becomes a free agent, any team could afford him,
but you're gonna have to give up somebody else. Like
you can afford any player, but not all the players.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
Yeah, yep. It becomes better to better to It's that's
the other thing. And I guess the other side of this,
And you know, I don't know if the Flame should
or should not, And I think that this isn't you know,
I don't think that they need to do it this year,
but right now they're in good shape to be looking

(01:21:30):
at the offer sheet they have. I think the point
where why I think Craig Conry is doing a good job.
Is they have created enough options for them to build
a team, not only in one certain area, which is
you know, I mean drafting is important, please, I've always
said that. But you can trade free agents, offer sheets.

(01:21:52):
There's ways to do this, and even the college free
agent route. Like I'm not saying that you end up
getting your superstar talent there, but you can. You can't
find some depth in that too, right So, and I
think any depth that you can get it within your
organization just builds you up here.

Speaker 3 (01:22:09):
Honestly, if the Flames want to go big game hunting,
I think wait till the off season. I still think
there's a good chance Marner's availble. If you just want
to spend some money, go out and don't give up
an asset and just drop it on a guy in Marner,
Or if Marner goes to Toronto, they're gonna have to
give up other guys, right Like, again, that money's got
to come from somewhere. Wait until the musical chairs. Don't

(01:22:30):
spend your money that way.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Well, the name that is being talked about right now
is reapproach. The trade deadline is the New Carolina Hurricane
maybe former Carolina Hurricane Nko Ranton and who is unsure
if he's gonna sign with Carolinas who and may they
may have to make another trade to to get that

(01:22:51):
at to get something for him because they're not able
to sign him. And he could become an unrestricted free
agent in the off season. And I think he's gonna
be commanding a lot of money because he wants dry
Sidle money and he is his agency as he's represented
as same agent that is Leon dry Sidle, so that
there is a connection there. But Lake, yeah, so and

(01:23:17):
again boy to, if that happened, it's it's hard to
argue that how Carolina did not fumble the ball on
that tray?

Speaker 3 (01:23:25):
Yeah, you know? And so I mean any of these guys, right,
let's just say that I don't know. Let's say that
he you know, Ranton and goes back to Carolina. He's
making four point six now he's gonna make almost ten.
They're currently sitting I believe that five hundred thousand dollars
of cap space right now. So they're gonna have to
move somebody. Like if you if you just think the
Flames need a big name, I think one will be

(01:23:46):
available because we have cap space even by you know,
doing the reverse mon a hand deal. Right, We'll give
you future considerations and you will give us your player
and a pick, like if you just want a big name,
if you're just excited to bring in another name here.
I think that can be done the offseason.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
Yeah, And I think the Flames are in a position
this year to broker a deal. I think that that's
probably I.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
Think it's gonna be if we sit here on the
eighth of March and say that, and again we don't
know what Conray talked about, but if we see that
other teams are brokeeren deals and Calgary didn't, I'm gonna
be disappointed didn't use the assets.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that they can. That's what I
think the Flames need to be doing. Is broker, broker,
some broker something because.

Speaker 3 (01:24:32):
And that's how you get Rooney out of the lineup too, right,
You take on somebody's old expensive center and stick them
online four Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
Yeah, But I mean ultimately, what Craig Conroy has done.
I think the thing that Conroy has done is is
he's not allowed himself to be pushed around. And he's
also he's he is just he's been patient, and I

(01:25:02):
think that that's a that's a good thing. Like he's
not in a rush to get anything done. He wants
to make the right thing done. I mean, you even
look back at the marks From situation, and there was
people I remember the mark people discussing with this with
people on on the social media that was like, too bad,
Marks from you. I know you have a no trade,
but we still have to trade you because it's time.

(01:25:24):
So no Marks from Markstrom signed a contract with a
no trade.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Yeah, and again, you know, you gave him that option,
so you've got to respect that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
M hm.

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
And you know, I don't know if it's the video
game era or what it is, but it seems like
more and more people want to see trades. We want
to make this trade or make that trade. And I
think it's you know, the NHL video game era, but
everybody just wants to see trades all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
Yeah, Well, transactions are fun.

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
They're fun, but at some point you're not going to
sacrifice your team just to you know, to see new people. Yeah,
it's like being in a relationship, right at some point you
don't just hopefully, I mean some people do, I guess,
but most people don't say, you know what, I'm bored
of this person. I'm just gonna dump them and find
somebody different, just because transactions are fun, right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
Yeah, Yeah, you can't go on love. They can't go
on the love is Blind game and just keep changing relationships.

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
You know, Like, yes, they're fun, but they have to
be a business decision and we're not here to move
guys around. And again, you know, you're dealing with humans,
you're dealing with clauses. Like, there's a lot more that
goes into this than fans give it credit for.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
Yeah, and it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
Seems like so often fans expect that Conrad can just
call a guy and say, thou shalt make this trade,
like you can, you know, trick the the you know
computer on your video game. No that you need two
guys that see a mutual benefit.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Well, I think that that's the era, right. I think
there's always been an excitement about trades over the years,
but I think what's what is now going on is
I think people want to win trades like they want
to see Dylan Cousins be acquired for a seventh round pick.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
I think we've always liked trades, for sure, but I
think that in the video game era, we're in this, like,
you know, there's more people now I find the last
four or five years that are on Twitter speculating about trades,
just throwing names out there because ah, these are good names,
or I did this in my video game. Like they
more people think that they they can just you know,
manufacture these trades that we've seen in the past. Yeah,

(01:27:29):
for sure, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
Is there anything else that we should be discussing?

Speaker 3 (01:27:38):
What do you I guess this might be the last
time you and I chat. I don't know before the deadline.
So what do you think the deadline looks like for
the Flames.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
I think it's going to be quieter than a lot
of people expect. I think that they'll broker a deal
if they can. If there's a hockey rate should be made,
they'll do it. I don't think of ras. I don't
think a big the names that we were talking about,
I I don't think any of them happened. I I
would even be surprised. I mean, the only name that
I could the two names that I could see move

(01:28:15):
is Dan vilad R. But I you're probably I.

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
Think he's the only thing the Flames have to really
give up a value. But I don't know what you
get for him unless it gets hurt between now and then.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
I honestly think that you would probably be just just
keep him at that point. And the other one I
just wonder about is Daniel mirrimanoff Like, I wonder if
that is a guy.

Speaker 3 (01:28:38):
They look at it, But who wants him?

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
That's the question.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
What team says the last piece we need is a
Danail Merrimanov. I think everybody can easily get or has
that type of defenseman.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
I think the only if if if I guess we're
Miramouna on the mirror amount off side, if you if
you're a team that is in a re building or
a restructuring mode that needs a body or needs that
can have an opportunity to you have him as a project,
you could, you could That's a team that I could see.

(01:29:14):
I could that's a that's a name that I could
see going to Buffalo because that's a team that could
use the project for him. You've got one two right
hand shots, one as a UFA and Henry Yokaharo San
Jose who took Walker Doer could be in Like I
think one of those teams. I could see in the
mere amount of conversation next year.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
I could see it when his when his last year.
I don't think that I want to bring in a
guy right now who has one more year as a project.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Yeah, like, I think you could easily.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
I think if you want a project, you could find
one for cheaper and or waivers and or UFA.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Yeah. Yeah, probably.

Speaker 3 (01:29:53):
Like I just again, I don't know what the value
is to, you know, to another team who's calling to
give it. I could The only the way I can
see a movie is if you sort of need that
extra piece and a deal. Yeah, okay, you want a defenseman, fine,
I'll give you a mere man of I mean it's
like you know in the in the Faarbee deal and
they said, well, we want a seventh because we feel
like we need something else.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Yeah. The other guy that I wonder We've talked about
this before, but I'll bring him up again. I do
think that Joel Hanley like doesn't have an enormous amount
of value, But if you're prepared being for a long
playoff run, the more defenseman that you have, the better.
It is the fact that he's played some top four minutes.

(01:30:35):
I think could some team, some team could look at
that and say, hmm, wouldn't hurt to have him if
the flames fade out, Like, if the flames fade out,
I could see that he's a he's making seven eighty
seven this year. I agree, he's a UFA next year.

Speaker 3 (01:30:51):
Remember, I think is used to like to bring in
the random defenseman of the deadline. I think you could
definitely see that. I think, so, yeah, that's a guy
I could actually see Toronto manking a run at. We
opened the show by talking about Tyson Barry Kevin. I
think Barry could be that guy too, And I think
you might be trying to get him in shape so

(01:31:12):
he's ready for the deadline. If a team comes in,
I just need a vet. I'll give you a six.

Speaker 2 (01:31:17):
Yeah. Yeah, that's another guy I could see. I could
see them doing that for too. And I mean he's
a he is a His offensive game is still can
help you. He's a good he's good in the offensive zone.
I think that I think Husk played him at a
position because he's more of a right shot guy that

(01:31:38):
was playing the left side, and there's some weager can
do it. Barry is that's not his strength.

Speaker 3 (01:31:46):
You know, I think in both cases with Huska or
sorry with yeah, with Huska and Barry, And you know
I think that. And when I say both cases, I
guess Huska and Barry, Calgary and whoever might take them
to the deadline, you're not bringing them into the your
everyday defenseman. You're bringing them into be an insurance policy.
And I think you know, whoever would acquire them, You're

(01:32:08):
not bringing them in because you need a number six.
You're bringing them between eight or nine. And you go, well,
this is a guy who you know has won in
the past, has been a veteran. I'd rather pull him
up than Bob farm Team if I got an issue.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
Yeah, you need you do need eight. I've always said
eight defenseman is really good if you're expecting to go
on a long stay.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
And the upper roster limit goes away after the deadline,
so you know as many guys in that roster as
you want.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Yeah, but I don't think the Flames are going to
be a major piece in the trade deadline.

Speaker 3 (01:32:38):
I just know I don't think so. I think anyone
who again, I think fans and I think part of
the reason that you know, as we're talking about these
trades with fans. Fans see some success and they see
a little bit of success and it's oh, let's capitalize
and let's run for the Cup this year. No, don't
like you know, I think, like you said, the Flames
will stand pat If I'm Craig, I'm using my ears
and not my mouth, and I'm waiting for teams come

(01:32:58):
to me and say, you know, make me an offer
if you want to, you know, don't salary on me
whatever you want, make me an offer. I've made my
big trade already with Philly. I'm happy to take the
day off.

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they like they should not be. I
don't think that they should be a big like. I
would not expect them to be a big name. I mean,
and I think there's other teams that are going to
be heavy or involved in those conversations. I don't think
it needs to be the Flames.

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
Nope, I would totally agree with you. I think it's, uh,
it definitely doesn't need to be the Flames. It definitely
I don't think should be the Flames. I think the
Flames can be there as support, whether that's you know,
to take on money or whatever it is that they
can do to help support a deal. But I think
that you're waiting for teams to come to you and
kind of, you know, say hey, I need you to
help me in this way.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right, let's leave it there. You
will be back.

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
Smar Side Chat will be back the first Monday of March.
So we've we've taken a break for the Four Nations.
We're gonna take a break this week so we can
recap this week and we'll have a new show out
on the third of March. Talking about the Flames the
start of the road trip, but you and I really
didn't talk about much and and talking about, you know,
how how we see the Flames starting off March and

(01:34:21):
what that might mean for their implications in that you know,
precious last playoff spot as they move forward.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
The reason we didn't talk about it, though, is I
think we've talked about a lot of stuff. We talked
about a lot of stuff that I think surround this anyway,
and I don't think that we should. I think I
think I think too many people are putting a make
or breaker point on this road trip. I think the Flames.
I think the Flames have a plan in place already.

Speaker 3 (01:34:53):
Yeah, well, and again, I think you have to remember
and this one thing we say on fireside chat all
the time, Kevin, is you have I have to remember
what this team is. Right. Yes, it's fun that they're
within three points of the playoffs. There's no expectation they
make it, right if they crack the bed on this
road trip, So they crack the bed, they're not in
the playoffs the right where we expect them to be.

Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
If they do well on this and they make the playoffs, great,
that's a nice extra.

Speaker 3 (01:35:15):
Like you know, if as Flames fans, you always want
to see them win, right, But if we look at
what the plan for the season was, really, it doesn't
matter what they do from here on out.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
No, it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:35:26):
If they don't make the playoffs. They don't make the playoffs,
that's fine. If they do mean the Bludds, they do
mean the Bloods, that's fine. But don't mortgage anything to
try and make that happen. Yeah, Or and if you say,
and if you start saying, you know what, let's put Slova,
but let's put Poria and let's start trying guys out
from the farm, even if we're willing to lose to
do it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
Great, you should be doing that. Well, you don't have
to sacrifice anything either.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
You don't have sacrifice, but I think you have to
be willing to say, hey, maybe we didn't have the
NHL player we needed in that spot. We're willing to
try it and understand what that means, right, I.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
Yeah, I just think that they I think, yeah, just
for me, they didn't. They don't need to. They don't
need to over You don't need to overreact one way
or the other. I think it's ultimately just be stay
the course and we'll get to we'll get there wherever

(01:36:18):
that is.

Speaker 3 (01:36:20):
No, I totally agree with you. Yeah, you know, and
I think, yeah, I think that. We just again, as
Flames fans, it's exciting the deadlines coming, It's exciting to
see trades coming. Just relax and just remember what this
team is and what they're expected to be this year.

Speaker 2 (01:36:37):
This year's we move into the deadline season. Sorry, go ahead, Yeah,
So for us, I'm sure we are going to talk
about the situations going on with the Canucks and the
all the issues going on with the Canucks. Quinn used
his health, Kevin lankin In's extension, Thatcher Demko's injury, Quinn

(01:36:59):
Hughes injury, Rock Bester's future, Elias Pederson's and Ilias Pedterson's injury,
not Elias Peedterson's injury, the future, Rick talking. There's lots
going on in Vancouver. We will discuss that at some
point this week, and then we'll be back next week
to talk more flames. You can follow us on x

(01:37:20):
sashtri or at Shifts and Pucks, Facebook dot com Shifts
and Pucks, YouTube dot com Shifts and Pucks, Twitch dot
com Shifts and Pucks, subscribe wherever you get your audio.
Thank you for watching, Thank you for listening. We will
talk to you well very soon. Bye for now

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