Thoughts from last weeks jersey retirement..

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome into the Sideline Shuffle. That's your boy KP back
at it again, feeling good. Thank you for listening, thank
you for subscribing, thank you for sharing. Appreciate getting the
talk sports with y'all. Excuse me, I hope you enjoyed

(00:38):
the last show. We talked about going both ways and
Travis Hunter's desire to play both ways at the NFL
level and whether or not he should be given that opportunity.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
I personally think let's give the young man a chance.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
But that brings us right into what I'm talking about
on this episode of Sideline Shuffle. Came up this week
right before the spring game at SeeU Coach Prime Athletic
Directors is an athletic director. Various members of the media
all in the room right and they announced, see you

(01:14):
will be.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Retiring some numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Chador and Travis's numbers number twelve and number two are
gonna be retired. Had people saying, is that your jersey
hanging in the rafters?

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Is it deserved? Should it be up there?

Speaker 1 (01:33):
That's your jersey, and other people saying that's your jersey.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Hanging in the rafters. Your numbers retired?

Speaker 1 (01:43):
The legacy is cemented your greatness will forever stand. You
have reached that pinnacle for that institution or that team.
You know, I can feel some kind of way about
Jersey retirements.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
I'm sure we all do.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm sure there's ones where we've celebrated, ones we've questioned,
but did see you get it wrong?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Right?

Speaker 1 (02:08):
We've heard the alumni come out, We've heard what they said,
We've heard the names that they've given and the accolades
for different things that haven't been done. We know what
Shador did. We know he set the records. We know
he won the best quarterback in the country ward. We
know what Travis did. We know he's him. But historically,

(02:31):
the way Jersey retirements work, it's not as you're walking
out the door. It's not before you fully made that
next leap. It's not before some other things have happened.
The numbers twelve and two will be retired. When I
think of the number two at see You, I mean

(02:52):
I'm a little older, but I think of dionn figures.
So when I saw Chad Brown come out with his comments,
I was like, yeah, that's hitting, Like I agree with that.
He said, Okay, you in the heisman.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
But at least waiting a waiting period.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Please.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
As far as SeeU number two, that will always be
Deon Figures for me. His teammate on a national championship
team in ninety who won't the Jim Thorpe Award see
You Hall of Famer College Football Hall of Fame right,
He was a huge part of that team winning a
national championship, beating Notre Dame.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
I can remember.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Sitting on the floor, my dad's sitting in the chair
over my right shoulder, watching that game.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
And I grew up at that time.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
I was a fan of Notre Dame because they were dominant,
and I was a kid see You because they were
local and the best team locally, and the Michigan Wolverines.
Now all three of those teams in the late eighties
into the early nineties were doing their damn thing. But
I can remember sitting there watching the game as see
You sealed that title and going, I want to jump

(04:11):
that bar. Remember I talked about jumping on jumping the
bar in my last episode. I wanted to jump the
bar see you. That just set when I watched that game.
I wanted to go to see you. I wanted to
win multiple titles, so Dian was a Chad, says, massive
part of bringing the national championship to see you sealing

(04:33):
interception in the Orange Bowl. Hard to understand how this
move isn't seen as a slight to the players who
brought a national championship to see you again. Things like
this are going to make you feel some kind of way,
especially when your teammates yourself, your team had done greatness
and brought greatness to the university prior to Shador and Travis,

(04:57):
and they didn't get recognized that way.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
He says.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
No pushback on Travis and Shador, he says two to
twelve on their greatness, but for them to leap frog
so many other deserving candidates without a discussion or a
waiting period blows my mind.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Now we know.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
This is decided by the coach, and the athletic director
or the assistant athletic director athletic department get to make
these decisions. So am I mad that Dion decided to
wield his power this way, to wield his influence. No,
it's more shines light on the previous regimes and coaches
that to me, had the opportunity to honor this ninety

(05:40):
championship team and retire their numbers prior to this, Right,
both things are true. At the same time, what Chad's
saying is true. All these other players that have been great,
that have done great things, that have brought greatness to
see you. They've been in a waiting period for over
thirty years, and Travis and Shdor are just getting in.
That's going to make you feel some kind of way.

(06:01):
You're gonna defend your people, right, I can think of
Eric b Enemy, Alfred Williams. Right, these guys, where's the
love for them? Where's the greatness that they brought? All
Americans Awards, Heisman Trophy finalists, And they might have the enemies,

(06:26):
got the blemish, right, he had the thing on campus,
So maybe that's why they're trying to stay away from that.
So it doesn't shine light back on that experience or
altercation from when he was there. But nonetheless a great player, right,

(06:47):
Shador and Travis are gonna be joining the likes of
Byron White, Joe Roman, Bobby Anderson, and Rashaan Salam And look,
Rashawn got his number retired after he passed. That was
the catalyst for them to go, this is our Heisman
Trophy winning running back let's go ahead and retire his number.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
And again, you.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Can't say one way is right, one way's wrong. I
do think there should be some continuity to it, and
I think that's where the feelings come from and why
people are feeling some kind of way about it, because
it's like, wait a second, wait, wait, wait, we understand
what Shdor and Travis did. We're alumni, we followed, we're
engaged with the team. But let's not forget about all

(07:37):
the players have already come like, let's have the discussion.
Let's not just do it because we can, which unfortunately
that's exactly what happened. They did it because they can,
and those prior who also could did not. So maybe

(07:58):
the athletic department, now that this feedback's coming back, now
that alumni are feel in some kind of way, now
that the chatter is out there, need to sit down
and go, Okay, who else can we honor? Who else
deserves to be honored in this way? And what are
qualifications going to be to be honored in this way?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right? Doesn't Alfred Williams qualified? Doesn't Eric be enemy? Get
the light?

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Doesn't Cordell Stewart jump into the conversation or a Michael Westbrook. Right,
some of these players that have been great, that have
done great things, that have set records and been all
Americans and gone onto the NFL?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Whose numbers? What are the criteria?

Speaker 1 (08:40):
And it shouldn't just be up to the coaches in
the athletic department's discretion. Let's have some rules, some guidelines
that framedness in some way, and a process. Right, NFL,
you qualify for the Hall of Fame five years after
you retire, Well, maybe that's not such a hard thing

(09:02):
to follow. For college retired numbers a similar system. Look,
if you went to the university and you've been gone
from the university for x amount of time, and you
meet these criteria and stood out as far as a
student athlete and the things that you did as an individual,

(09:23):
then you enter the topic of conversation and have it's
voted in or it's just a minimum requirement. You might
run out of numbers quick doing that. Then that's when
that period takes place. But we're gonna let everything kind
of have its time and a process too. I don't
think that's too much to ask. I also think the

(09:47):
ninety team needs to have some numbers retired now you're
looking at retired numbers in college football. There's a lot
there's a lot of universities that are starting to run
out of numbers. Right, you've got I mean just looking through.
I'm gonna go through this list, real quick, long list.
I'm gonna call it some names. John Stalwarts number at
Alabama A and M. Pat Tillman's number got retired after

(10:14):
he passed away at Arizona State.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Right, who else we got?

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Bo Jackson's number retired and some of these names, I'm
gonna say, you're gonna be like, Okay, Door's not like
Dad Travis is in that league. Doug Flutie at Boston College,
Steve Young, Jim at Mann, Tyler Debtmer at BYU. They
went through a quarterback run there in the eighties into
the early nineties at b YU.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Who else we got? You got cs he has.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
A couple retired numbers, and Eddie Hannah and Thurman McGraw,
Tony Romo's numbers retired at Eastern Illinois, both the car
Brothers of Fresno State, Trent Dilfer's number, Devonte Adams number.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Right, you're getting some names.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Herschel Walker, great college player, Adrian Peterson at Georgian Southern.
Not Adrian Peterson at Oklahoma. Uh. Someone that's kind of
surprised me. At Hostra, Wayne Corbett's numbers retired. I mean
Marcus Colston his numbers retired, case Keen de Andre Ware

(11:18):
at Houston. Right, Dick Buckus and Red Grange at Illinois.
Those are the only two numbers at Illinois that are retired.
And look at those names. All time greats, all the
time Hall of famers. You can't tell the story of
football without Dick Buckets and Red Grange entering the conversation.
Gail Sayers at Kansas, you got Thurman Thomas and Barry

(11:43):
Sanders at Oklahoma State.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
You got Lamar Jackson.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
And Johnny Unitas at Louisville, right, Like, look at those names.
Look at what we're talking about here. Vinnie Testa Verdi
at Miami, Ben Roethlisberger at Miami of Ohio. Michigan's got
several numbers, including President Gerald Ford, Desmond Howard. Just I'm

(12:10):
scrolling through the list, Bruce Smith at Minnesota, Bronco Negirsky
at Minnesota. Right, you look at some of these names,
you start thinking about, what are those criteria for you?
What are those criteria for the university to have these
guys retired. Roger Staubach's number retired at Navy, Philip Rivers
at NC State, Brian Erlacker in New Mexico. A lot

(12:37):
of these guys go on to be NFL Hall of Famers.
Joe Green at North Texas right the Mannings Eli and
Archie down there at Old miss both of them father
and son got their numbers retired. Pittsburgh, Larry Fitzgerald, Dan Marino,
Tony dor Set, Joe Schmidt, Mike Ditka, like Pittsburgh got

(12:57):
a run right there, as far as all of famers
that have retired, Marshall Falk at San Diego State, Shannon
Sharp at Savannah State, Sterling in South Carolina. Syracuse has
several retired numbers, including several people which we'll talk about
this in a minute, that have.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
The number forty four retired.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Because remember at Syracuse early on the best running back
you earned that number forty four. So you had Ernie Banks, right,
you had Floyd Little, you had And this is embarrassing.
Why can't I think of my man's name a series

(13:42):
of people? This isn't And now I gotta look it
up y'all, And I'm gonna laugh and clown myself when
I get the answer here. Jim Brown, I didn't even
need to finish looking up. It finally hit into my
day head all wearing the number forty four? How do

(14:03):
I forget Jim Brown's name for a minute?

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Anyway? Syracuse?

Speaker 1 (14:06):
That's a run TCU with Ladanian, Tomlinson, Reggie White at Tennessee. Right,
I think of some of these names, and I do
start going, Okay, is that Chador? Is that Travis Texas
with Vince Young, Colpe McCoy, Earl Campbell, Bobby Lane, Ricky Williams.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Right?

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Where do they they sit in the pantheon of athletes?
And do we compare it to other schools or do
we just compare it to what's going on at CU
When we're having this conversation, I think it's fair to
say we should just limit it to see you and
not to all of college sports, because face it, we
don't know if Travis or Shador are going to turn

(14:48):
into some of the names that I just listed on
the collegiate level that have had their number retired. And
I do think there's times teams can get it wrong
or do it too early. I think Denver retiring Peyton
Manning's number, which was Frank Tripica's number, wasn't needed. When

(15:09):
I think of Peyton Manning, yes, I know he retired
as a Denver Bronco, but he's an Indianapolis cole.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
When I think of the.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Number forty four for Syracuse, I think of Jim Brown.
I know Floyd little Ward, I know Ernie banks Ward.
But that's one thing I've never got either. If it's retired,
why are so many players getting credit for where now?
I know Syracuse is a little different. They didn't retire
it and then let other players wear it and then

(15:35):
retire theirs as well. Denver with Manning, Tripica's number was
already retired, Manning got permission to wear it. Now they're
calling it kind of a special notification that they put
Manning up there as well on the retired number for Denver.

(15:56):
But that's the thing, like like Dion said, I don't
know sometime last year, there needs to be a different
wing of the Hall of Fame for players like me.
If some of these guys are getting into Hall of Fame,
retired numbers should be that type of player, right, you

(16:17):
think of Bruce Smith in the NFL, Jim Kelly's had
his number retired.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
You think of.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Who I talked about in either earlier or in the
last show, Bronco, Negirsky, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers again, Dick
Buckis has got it. Chicago's got a bunch of numbers
retired to Browns, They're gonna run.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Out of players.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Cleveland Ernie Davis followed Jim Brown to Cleveland, had his
number retired. Now he passed away, you know, early, but
him and Jim Brown both have separate numbers retired for
the Cleveland Browns. Denver has like I said, Elway Tripica,
Floyd Little has his forty four retired there and at Syracuse.

(17:05):
Detroit's got Lin Barney and Barry Sanders also Billy Simms
number twenty retired for all three of them. Now, personally,
I think of Barry Sanders. I know Billy Simms came first,
and Lin Barney before that, and all of them were great.
I know Billy simms career was cut short. But again,
multiple players with the same number. It's always odd to me.

(17:30):
Right you look at the again, Reggie White's and Johnny
Unitases and Raymond Barry's and emmittt Smith's and Derek Thomas'
and Dan Fouts and Lance Alworth and the Eric Dickerson's
and Jackie Slater.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
And Deakey Deacon Jones and.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Dan Marino and Larry Zonka. And it's a lot of
pressure to retire a number. I'm telling the organization, nobody
ever gets to wear this number again, or maybe we'll
make a few sacrifices so they can, so two or
three people can wear this number over time, or they
get permission to wear it like Baton Manning's case. But

(18:12):
the names the Reggie Whites and Jerome Brown's and Joe
Montanas and Ronnie Lotts and Dwight Clark's and Walter Jones
and Cortes Kennedy and Warren Sapp and Earl Campbell and
Mike Munchaks and Bruce Matthews and Darryl Green's and Sammy

(18:34):
Baughs of the world, They're gonna be remembered forever. So
a waiting period again, like Chad Brown mentioned in his comments,
to avoid retiring a number of somebody and putting pressure
on them so early before they've even achieved the pinnacle
of their career is a lot and sometimes we get

(18:57):
it wrong, and that's what I hope does doesn't happen
in this situation, right, that could be the downside of
all of this, and Dion going, we're gonna retire these
numbers for what these young men did for the university,
the records they've set. The players, they are the young men,
they are what they were while they were here. Because
when we look back, if their careers in the NFL

(19:20):
don't match, it's just gonna be harsh criticism. And maybe
they don't care, maybe that doesn't matter, but that's gonna
be the conversation. And you don't want your name tied
to that that way, right, You want your name tied
to the conversation of arguably the best. Right when we
talk about the goats, does your name come up? Is

(19:41):
there somebody pounding the table going we got to include
this player's name. And this is why his numbers retired.
Here look what he did in college. He went and
did all of these things as a professional. Maybe there
was a tragic ending like in Ernie Banks's story or
in some of these other stories where careers were cut

(20:03):
short or players passed away early but had a great
career or a great impact or changed the game in some.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Kind of way.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Right, we look at Jackie Robinson's number being retired across
all of baseball. That makes a lot of damn sense.
He was a great player. He impacted the game in
amazing ways, so it makes sense to have his number
retired in baseball. There's a lot of players now, obviously

(20:33):
for different teams, but that have the same number retired.
Unlike Jackie, Who's it's just Jackie's number. Nobody gets to
wear it, right. Nolan Ryan's numbers retired for the Angels,
I think it's also retired for every team he pitched
for the Angels, the Astros. I think the Rangers have
it retired. The man just kept playing baseball. You think

(20:57):
of other players in baseball, the Ricky Henderson's think of
all their numbers that the Yankees retired, Right, They've got
their probably the most numbers in all of baseball that
are retired. But you look at guys again like Reggie
Jackson and Mariano Rivera and Whitey Ford and Thurman Munson
and Roger Maris and Yogi Bearra and Mickey Mannel and

(21:19):
Joe DiMaggio and Luke Garrick and Babe Ruth and Derek Jeter, Like,
there's some names there, there's some all time greats. There's
some guys who did their thing and changed the game. Right,
Frank Thomas probably arguably the greatest hitter in the history
of the White Sox.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
You can make that argument.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
His numbers retired, so organizational type things like I was
talking about with CU maybe we're not looking at across
all of college sports and comparing what these other guys did,
and that's our measuring stick. But what's the measuring stick,
what's the time period, what's the process gonna be so
that it's not making people feel some kind of slight

(21:56):
because thirty years after their team did it, they still
aren't getting that love. But these guys are stepping out
in day one after leaving the group. Let's raise it
to the rafters. Right, It's gonna make you feel some
kind of way if you've been there and done that.
Baseball's got a lot of retired numbers. But baseball's been
around a long damn time, so that makes sense. But

(22:20):
you want to think of the greats like basketball, I
don't think has quite as many retired numbers as baseball.
They still have a lot. I mean, the Celtics have
a ton of retired numbers. The Lakers have retired numbers.
I think the Celtics might have the most, but again,
you look at who the Celtics have retired numbers for,

(22:43):
Robert Parrish, Red Aurbach, Dennis Johnson, Kevin Garnet, Bill Russell,
Jojo White, Bob Coosey, players like John Halichek, Don Nelson,
Sam Jones, Casey Jones, Kevin McHale, Larry Bird, Paul Pierce, Right.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Like, okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
These are guys that for that organization, for what they did,
a lot of them went on to be Hall of famers,
a lot of them went on to win multiple championships
for the Celtics.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
For the Lakers.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
You look at what the Bulls numbers have retired recently,
retiring Derrick Rose's number most recently. But Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen,
Phil Jackson doesn't have a retired number. Red Aubuck didn't
have a retired number, but he still has his name
up in the rafters.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
With that group.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Jerry Krause, right, he put together those six championship teams
or gets.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Credit for it.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
So you don't want to be that name where people
are like, no, should that number have been retired?

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Can we debate that that didn't need to happen. Can
we debate that they weren't one of the greats at
the end, not in the middle, because right now we
can all agree Travis Hunter's great. What Chador did was great.
He set the records at the school perform better than
anybody ever has. That's not what's on debate here with that.

(24:05):
I agree with Chad. There needs to be a process.
It does seem like a slight. It is gonna make
you feel some kind of way. So when we're looking
at this, are we saying that's your jersey? Are we
saying that's your jersey? Go ahead and think about that.
We got the draft coming up, and I'll be talking

(24:28):
to you soon