Single Malt Strategy: Top 5 Games - From Our Past | Episode 87 - Single Malt Strategy

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, wolf Pack here and welcome to the single
Malt Strategy podcast. I am joined by Tortuga Power, the
Historical Gamer, and Finish Jaeger. Today we are going to
be talking about our top five nostalgic games, most nostalgic games.
That's an exciting podcast topic. We are scrambling for things
to talk about, and I don't know who suggested this one,

(00:20):
but it's a good suggestion.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, we don't need to name names, but I'll take credit.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
We had a pretty good brainstorming session about potential future
podcast ideas, mostly regarding our favorite games, because we could
also do I don't know, favorite games in the top
ten years, because that list would look different for me
even as well.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
So I even want to immediately drill down into this,
like just clarify a little bit with the topic. Is
it's not like the best games, it's nostalgic games. That's
a very good way of phrasing it too, so that
people know these are not the top. These may oh god,
we may have some real stinkers in here.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, they may not be the best games in their
particular genre. They might not have a aged the best,
but that mean something right here and I'm pointing to
my heart.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
If you're talking about a game that you have nostalgia for,
it's probably an older game. I mean, I don't, we didn't,
we didn't have any rules on a timeframe, but like,
it's probably older. If it's an older game, it's probably
got flaws. Like, let's be real, if you're looking at
games that twenty years ago or whatever, it might be,
games were not as polished in a lot of cases
back then. So these aren't gonna be perfect games. Whether

(01:28):
they're the top five for someone else, whether they're your
top five, or they're just five games that you want
to talk about. I know, for me personally, I would
say these are like that, maybe the top five most
influential games on me as a gamer. But to each
their own. We just want to talk about some games
that are important to us, and that's what we're gonna
do today.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
All right, Well, with that out of the way, let's
kick this. Let's kick this off. I mean, who wants
to start? Does anyone have something they're really itching to
talk about?

Speaker 3 (01:56):
I'll start with one at fifth on my list, And
I don't for doing this round robin or not, but
a fifth on my list is pans are General by
SSI the original pans are General. I know a lot
of folks who are like Pans are General fans, swear
By Pans are General two. But for me it was
Pans or General one. And I actually played that game
on PlayStation one. Didn't really have much of a gaming

(02:17):
computer growing up. This game came out in the early nineties,
ninety four, I think it was, and I got it
on the original PlayStation and it was really kind of
I don't know if it was really my first war game,
but it might might have been. Like it's the one
I have the earliest memory of playing a lot, And
you know, I think the Pans are General style game

(02:38):
has been a little bit played out these days. I
think folks are maybe a little bit sick of it.
You know, again, it's a thirty year old format and
it's a little puzzly right here. It's a turn based
war game where you've got units with up to ten
hit points, and you've got different unit types tanks, anti
tank aircraft fighters. You've got obviously scenarios that sort of

(03:00):
span nineteen thirty nine to hypothetical stuff in nineteen forty six,
and as the game title would would have you guess
you do. You play from the at least in the campaigns,
you play from the side of the Germans, and you
can play starting in Poland, you can start in Russia,
or you can start sort of once the wars turned
against Germany and you're fighting to defend Italy. But this
was just for me anyway. It was. It was really

(03:22):
sort of my first meaningful foray into wargaming, and I
really enjoyed it. And you know, I played it a lot,
listening to baseball games and listening to Bob Ucker and
I like drew maps out as I would conquer countries
in the game. And it kind of had like a
little bit of a branching campaign too, like depending on

(03:42):
how you did emissions in the campaign, would you would
get a different mission that would be influenced by your
prior battle. It had core mechanics where units would gain
experience and move over. And I think it deserves to
be on any list that's really looking at classic war games,
because even if you're bored of the topic, it obviously
spawned a very successful lineage of games that all copied

(04:04):
it from ally general to know the strategic mind games
that are coming out nowadays or the pans or core
games that are coming out nowadays. Like, there have been
thirty years of games that have emulated this format, and
I believe it was the first. It certainly was the
first really successful game, and it was made by SSI,
So definitely definitely a game that I played a lot

(04:25):
of as a kid and still look fondly on today.
Oh there you go.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
I have never played that game, but sounds neat. I
think we are going to notice the interesting age difference
between us nostalgic games.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
Oh yes, I forgot you guys are zoomers. Okay, well, anyway,
all right, who's next?

Speaker 4 (04:45):
I go with my number five. I'm not gonna have
too much to talk about here. But my game also
has Panzers in the title. Oh yes, yes, right, it's
a code name, code name Panzers.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Uh phase.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
Panser girls. No, stop interrupting the historical.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Games when you say his full name like that, like
you're a.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Parent, mister, the historical mister, historical gamer. Yeah. So, code
name Panzer's was an RTS game. It was probably one
of the first arts games that I remember playing, and
it was interesting. I think it has some similar game
mechanics that I remember seeing now in like Gates of Hell,
vehicles could like lose crew and you could capture vehicles

(05:31):
and run around with like a French tank or a
Soviet tank, so like if you were playing as one
side or the other, you could have captured equipment. I
somewhat recently watched like some of the missions, and I
remember thinking, like, as a kid, those graphics looked really good,
and I don't think they look bad now. I just
I remember thinking, like after watching some of the missions

(05:52):
the past couple of months, like the combat range of
these RTS games are so short, like you have two
tanks just like face hugging and blasting away at each other,
and you think about how RTS games have evolved to
like really manage distance and like armor penetration in those games.
I think it's it's interesting to see how that has advanced.

(06:12):
But really, all I have to otherwise say about Code
Naine Panthers was I felt like the missions were really
really cool. I don't really know how many of them
were like historical. I remember finding them difficult, I found
them challenging, I found them rewarding, I found them fun.
Like the set pieces were really well done, So it
was a game that kind of set me down a

(06:35):
RTS path going forward in my gaming career.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Can I ask some questions about this, because, first of all,
I just looked up this game. I vaguely have some
fuzzy memory about it. I noticed that the year was
released as two thousand and four, which is I just
realized that a lot of my nostalgia games were the
early two thousands as well. Okay, I think you already
maybe already answered this, but like, what made this game
special is it's the what was the game called the

(07:00):
Close Combat? Not Close Combat, the one not Men of War,
the one that was recently released is number three, and
it sucked.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Company of Heroes com Heroes Thank god.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
Yeah, I never actually played Company of Heroes, and I
don't know why I kind of bounce off of that.
I know, I remember trying.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Was this contemporary though? When was Company of Heroes?

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Company of Heroes is a two thousand and six.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Oh, so this actually predates it.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
But Company of Heroes has that same like face hugger
I love that term, by the way you finish, But
Company of Heroes has that sort of face hugger range
engagements that I always thought were goofy looked goofy to me.
It's like, oh, they're two centimeters away and they can
just see each other.

Speaker 4 (07:36):
As a kid, I didn't think anything about that, but
you know, now as an adult and knowing more about history,
it's really strange. Like I'm looking at some screenshots of
the game and I see just like a pans are
four right in front of a priest, and I don't know,
this half track is right next to some T thirty four.
So it's just like kind of weird. But yeah, I

(07:56):
felt like the missions were really good because they were
like there's a lot of variation in the in the
settings and the locations and the units. I thought the
game had a lot of units, and so I give
the game a lot of credit for that. Only question Tortuga.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I mean when I look up the game, it
looked like Company your Heroes, So that's game to mine.
But I also noticed the year I have all nostalgia
in two thousand and four, two thousand and five as well.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, so I played Phase one, I played Phase two.
It kind of just basically Game one in game two.
For some reason, I thought this game has some sort
of like Race to the Bomb DLC or something like that.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Do you know why this particular game series ended?

Speaker 4 (08:34):
I do not looks like they made code name Panzer's
Cold War, which I've only have heard about right at
this second, So I've never heard of this game. But
I don't even know who the developers of this game is. Yeah,
I don't know why it ended. I think they were
two popular games. And maybe if there's anyone who's commenting like, oh, yeah,
I played the game, or I've never heard of that game,

(08:56):
but I just remember, like you know, as a kid,
sometimes you'd go into the the Walmart or whatever, the
best buy and I want to go look at the
game shelf. I think I spotted it one of those days,
and then eventually ordered Phase two off of like whatever.
Amazon eventually became all.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Right, well, I'll go to my number five, and this
is going to be quite the turn. My top five
nostalgic game is Evonline. And I know what you're thinking,
that game still kicking.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, it sure is.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
But it was released in two thousand and three initially,
and I played a lot of it for quite a
while there in the late like twenty tens or so,
and I don't know it's a game that I wish.
I wish more MMOs had this sort of just completely
player driven economy, game mechanics and world. I was kind

(09:47):
of hoping something like Naval Action would scratch that itch
for me, but no other game has really scratched that itch,
like evonline does.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
I know it's real old by now, but did you
ever play World War two online? I've never actually played
that Gale map of like the Low countries and that
portion of France that bordered them. Kind of similar issue,
and I don't know that there was really a player economy,
but like you'd have limited number of units for you know,
units would take losses, logistics matter again, the towns would

(10:16):
change sides and you have to go back and try.
Like it was real big at one point in time.
I dabbled in it like ten years ago, and it
was like a ghost town and I mean there's still
a few people playing it.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
But yeah, I mean I know there's some games that
have kind of tried to replicate that sort of thing.
One that comes to mind is Foxhole, which has a
persistent war that goes on it rolls over once the war.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Is won, but Eve doesn't roll. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
It's just cool that this entire endgame universe has been
I don't know, essentially one persistent universe since the game's
release date in two thousand and three, and most of
the major events are player driven. Oh there's something about it.
I again, I was hoping naval action would kind of
come in and be more like Eve. I think that's

(11:00):
like the perfect setting for it, sailing ships in the Caribbean.
But yeah, and I was always really big in the
MMOs to begin with. Some MMOs almost made it onto
my top five list, but Eva Online is probably the
most influential MMO that I think I've played, even if
it's probably not the most enjoyable at times.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
That was one of those games that I remember seeing
articles about a lot, like twenty million dollars worth of
in game currency was just destroyed in the battle in
Eve Online, and it always sounded so cool, but it
could never I mean it was it had been around
a long long time before I ever looked at it,
and it was kind of like, I don't I never
could commit myself to it.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, and I bounced off hit a couple of times,
like I think it took me three times of trying
that game before it really hooked me, and once it
hooked me, it hooked me for a long time.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
I think you could do a whole podcast on I'm
sure you could do a whole podcast on Eve. I
mean there's so much that game really has done a lot. Yeah,
it wasn't the first mem oh, but I mean it
was a trendsetter.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
A trendsetter that like, no one's really been able to replicate.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, I mean nobody else. Nobody else has people committing
felmies just to win in game battles, you know, I
mean this.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Right, Yeah, people would go and cut like you know,
power cable lines at some dude's house who was commanding
a fleet. I mean, people did all sorts of crazy
stuff yeah in that game, And like you said that
was illegal. Some guy actually did a Kickstarter and I
actually bought it because I thought that concept was cool.
It's like an actual detailed history of yvonline from like

(12:36):
and it's written like a his history book, and you
see all the wars and all these personalities. I mean,
it's it's a cool game. And it looks beautiful too,
even today, Like it was released in two thousand and three,
and I mean it's they've updated it, They've kept up
with it. It looks great. The ship design. I've been
a pretty big fan of it. I think as far
as sci fi ships go, like, they've have an awesome aesthetic.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
So ask you then, well, maybe I have one question
for you as well. What do you not like about it?

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Like?

Speaker 2 (13:05):
What? Because this game has so much appeal and I
have also tried it. I bounced off it, though, maybe
what do I not like about it? What keeps you
from playing it? Then?

Speaker 1 (13:13):
It is a time commitment, that's for sure. I mean
it doesn't have to be. You can always just hop
in and dabble around. But yeah, it's a it's a
pretty big time commitment. I don't really have the time
for it, and it's it's a lot of time doing
it could feel like nothing. Also, there have been some
changes in the game that I've not been a huge
fan of. They've added quite a few micro transactions and stuff.

(13:35):
So how the game works is you have skills and
you level up. You get skill points in real time.
If you you've played Lead Eve, so you kind of
know that. Like, you train certain skills and it takes
you know, anywhere from like an hour to train to
you know, a month or more depending on what kind
of skill, and you just your character learns this in
real time. They went down a slippery slope with like

(13:58):
these things called skill injectors, so you could like sell
your skill points on the in game market and inject
them into characters or whatever. And now I forgot. They've
just been adding skins I feel like, and all sorts
of other It's hard to say it's pay to win
because it's Eve, but it's pay to win adjacent pay
to win ESQ. There is an argument to be made

(14:19):
that is pay to win. That argument's always been.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
There because you can always buy stuff, right.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yeah, you could buy this stuff called plex, which was
essentially because Eve Online was originally a subscription based MMO
and I did not mind the subscription fee, but you
could earn your monthly subscription fee by buying something in game,
Like you could pay for your subscription in game if
you made enough money whatever, you can buy it on

(14:46):
the market, and that was called plex at the time.
Things have changed, so I'm probably not addressing it exactly
how it is today, and we're a warcraft has something
like that now, where you could buy like subscription tokens
using in game gold or whatever, so if you grind enough,
you don't have to pay real money. They've kind of

(15:08):
run with that because the games I'm not as popular
as it once was, and a lot of that came
when they added the free to play. There's a free
to play game mode and EVE, And every time I've
played Eve, I have not done the free to play stuff.
I've always been like, well, I need to subscribe because
the free to play restrictions, although aren't horrible, they're not
great either, which is the same with a lot of MMOs,

(15:31):
And in general, I've kind of stopped playing MMOs these
days because they're just a time saank and grindy.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
But yeah, that's about it.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
I didn't realize the war it was the same or
the timeline was the same since the game first started.
I think that's quite interesting concept.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, it's it's really cool. It's all persistent. It's like
Iceland's biggest export, Iceland.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Really Yeah, I think I made a I read. I
did an audio book that I listened to that was
like about the history of some war that occurred in
the Eve. Someone actually like wrote a book about it.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, it's like that like those books that I was
talking about that guy Kickstart, and I mean, it's a living,
breathing world and I don't know, it's a shame no
other MMOs tried to replicate it, and I do like
how I don't know. I guess I feel like Eve's
relatively grounded too, like I like the setting a lot.
So anyway, that's that. What about you, Tortugo, what's your

(16:27):
number five?

Speaker 2 (16:28):
I'm going to keep this one short, but I might
have a more lengthy topic myself or game.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
That was supposed to be my short one.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
I rambled, well, watch this demonstrate I was done. Number
five is Aerobiz Supersonic and I played it on the
Supernintendo and it was probably the game that got me
into like liking the fact that numbers go up in
Tycoon type games. I realized how much I like them
through this game. That's all I can really say about it.

(16:55):
It was impactful for me, partly because I did play
this with my father. There's multiplayer mode, so that's pretty fun.
But yeah, it's it's what let me know that Tycoon
type games that kind of thing or would would be
my jam. I don't have a lot more to say
about it. It's a really good gamebody. It's actually I
feel like has stood the test of time. I recently

(17:17):
replayed it and it's still fun.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, that was another thing I looked about it. You
just saying numbers go up. You know, it is a
satisfying thing.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
But if nobody has any interesting questions asked me about that,
Let's go on to go back to your number four.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
What was the game setting for Tortugos.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
About Aerobiz super Sonic? Do you like this game? By
the way, it's just you. You're a plane. Sorry, you're
an airline company.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Okay, it's an airline tycoon game, right, you run an
air airline. It's kind of was it? Did you play
it on the s N E S.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, that's why I said it's super Nintendo.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
I'm sorry I might have missed that.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
I rambled too long. I get it.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
I was looking at that was I was looking at
PTO two, which is also SNS.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
But oh was that on your list?

Speaker 3 (18:00):
No? No, it should it could be. But right, hit
us with your number four, number four Total War Attila
Attila recent that game. That game came out in twenty
like what fourteen? That's not nostalgic? Oh no, my bad,
My bad. Sorry. Total War Barbarian Invasion.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, this guy's so nostalgic. He got the name of
the game. R Get out of here, Out of here.
I can't believe this the same game.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
It's just it's it's older, it's the same game.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Okay, you heard it here, all right, go on. Your
opinion is completely invalid now, by the way.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Total War Barbarian Invasion. What more do you need to know?
It's the good Rome Total War takes place during the
fall or the end period of the Western Roman Empire,
during the Hun's campaigns against Rome. And I always, you know,
I think the reason this game is on this list,
it's not the best total war game. Like I know,
I've said that multiple times on the podcast before that

(18:55):
I think Barbarian Invasion, you know, is better than Base
Rome Total War. That it's a separate discussion to have.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
As an opinion, by the way, which nobody agrees with.
Everybody thinks the opposite. But just so people know.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
You know, what, if anything, if anything about twenty twenty
four has told me, it's that when everybody goes one way,
you should definitely go the other.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
Yeah, that's my motto when I drive.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Sound reasoning when everyone doesn't jump off a cliff TSG.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Does you know there's a lot of things where this
is an applicable and valid statement, and you know.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
If there's a lot of cliff.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah, I've never Actually that's not true. I've been to
the Grand Canyon, and I've been to the cliffs and
some more. But like, cliffs ain't just popping up all
over the Midwest for me to jump off.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
When people wear clothes outside, TCHG does not wear clothes.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Well, I'm glad that's one of your nostalgic You want
to know my most nostalgic memory of Total War Barbarian
Invasion TG. Sure, i'd like to just say it. I
like Barbarian Invasion too, but my biggest memory of it
is being forced to play it because my younger brother
broke my room disc so I had.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
To fucking expansion. I'm so sorry he did you a favor.
The base game sucks. It's good with mobs, good over,
it is good with mods, But the base game like,
we're gonna break Rome's Republic into three factions that are
actually three separate countries. Oh my god, you fucking nerds.
Let me just say the reason that this is on

(20:26):
the list. You know, you know total war games. We
don't need to go into the details here, but the
reason this is in the list is because strategy gaming,
by default, the answer is you are going to take
a small little country and you are going to grow it,
and you are going to snowball it, and you are
going to after after some difficulty early on, you're going

(20:48):
to steamroll everything in your path and paint the entire
map red or whatever your color is. And Total Wartila
was the first game that I remember playing where you
were where if you play is Rome anyway, you were
playing as a decaying empire, as an empire where things
are falling apart and you were trying to hold them together.

(21:08):
And that had a real profound impact on me as
a gamer because that is not a game design tactic
that most developers do. I think it is a very
difficult mechanic to get right. And I think Rome has
Barbarian invasion has problems where like once you fix enough
things like pretty quickly on, you can just flip the

(21:29):
script and you're real powerful already. But I think the
idea of being an established empire that is collapsing, that
is trying to hold back the hordes that is just
barely sort of surviving and you kind of have to
strip resources around. Like that just spoke to me in
a way that I don't think any strategy game had
really done before. And I thought it was very unique,
and I thought it was very important. And I also

(21:51):
I think that period of Roman Rome's empire is far
more interesting to me anyway than the Republic. And so
that's that's kind of why this game's on them fair.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
I I do generally agree like I do like Barbarian Invasion,
and I do I do like Attila Total War, and
I agree that period of Roman history is pretty interesting.
I think it's significantly less popular and that's why you
don't see it very much. People like to paint the
map or whatever. But I get what you're saying. I
do like a lot of the mechanics.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
It's interesting too, because you've seen other games like try
to like feel the Glory Empire, was it empire?

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Or what are kingdoms? Like? Empires has like this decadence
mechanic where they're trying to be like, as you get bigger,
it's hard to hold things together. I don't know if
it really works or not, but like it's it's a
constant challenge to games try to be like, all right,
so as you get big, how do we make this
game still be interesting? And I think it's a game.
It's a problem that most strategy games fail to do.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
I think the only one that did something good with
Showgun with Realm Divide, although.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
It got it was annoying.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
I would say when it happened, I would say that
Europa Universalis has done it.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
Crusader Kings a little bit.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, I think the Paradox have done an ok job
balancing this. People still fight beyond it, you still go.
But you know, I think that there is at least
mechanics in there. Just players just don't want to see it.
That's why you don't put it into a game. Because
games are not supposed to be realistic. They're supposed to
be fun, and it's just not fun to have something
that you like. If I build my big lego tower

(23:18):
and somebody comes kicks it, yeah that's that's life. But
I don't like it.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
But the reason it works for Barbarian Invasion is you
didn't build it. There's no sense of ownership of like,
I did all this work to make it big and
now it's falling apart. It works in Barbarian invasion because
you start in a state of collapse, and so, like you,
you should stream at TSG. I think I have in
the past, but I could. I could anyway, we don't
need to talk about this for a long time.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Oh, it'll make a return, it will, Okay, go ahead, finish.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
My number four is it's actually going to be another
RTS game, shocking on single mall strategy.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
I'm such an outlier here.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
Yeah, while everyone was talking, I was thinking, like what
if this is? What if I should have put this
as my number five. But anyway, it doesn't matter. My
game for number four is Access and Allies. This is
a computer game. This is also from two thousand and four,
so it's a real time strategy game. I don't know
how to describe it other than like you'd be plopped
on the map on these battles, and then you'd have

(24:16):
to build up your headquarters and build your units and
then fight the enemy, the enemy faction, the enemy forces.
I guess you could think of it kind of like
Age of Empires in a way, like that same kind
of building up your base and then moving out to attack.
But it's a World War two.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
This is not the board game Access and Allies.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
You said the computer game.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
No, I realized the computer game. I'm saying, but like,
there's a digital version of the board game, so it's
not that there.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
There is a digital version of the board game in
this game. Yes, and you could fight those battles in
RTS an RTS scenario interest. But then it also had
each country had a a campaign associated with it. And
then it was also interesting because there were a historical
campaigns too, so like Operation Sea Lion or to Capture

(25:11):
Moscow or whatever like that. I remember those at least,
so that was kind of interesting. It's like the probably
the first time I had been exposed to like alt history,
I guess, in any like any kind of situation, and
it was in a video game. So I thought that
was really cool. I'll answer your question, Tah, what do
you got.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
No, I I'm just saying that's interesting because I've never like,
I hear Access and Allies and I think the digital
version of the board game, I was not aware that
there was one where you could actually fight battles out
in that way.

Speaker 4 (25:39):
It's got a Wikipedia page.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
That was hence that was my my confusion was there.
I was like, wait, so that you can fight them
out like that as opposed to just rolling dice. Well,
this is actually looks awesome.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
So I think so other things I liked about this game,
I'll say there were there was some element of research
when you were in your RTS battle, So you had
some of the buildings that you constructed would then unlock
some research, and then you had to kind of have
like manage a little bit of an in game resource economy.
I guess like you had probably supplies or fuel or

(26:13):
something like that, some money, and you would spend that
to buy your units, to do some research, to buy
like some special weapon attacks or whatever. Your general. Your
forces were commanded by a general, and they had like
some sort of special attacks or special bonuses for your troops,
so that was kind of fun. Lastly, I want to

(26:33):
say that the game had a mission creator for the
RTS side of the game, and I played a lot
of that, and I think what really hooked me was
that I was like creating missions with scripts because the
game had that in the mission creator, so you could
have like, oh, so once one side captures this town,
then it would there'd be some sort of scripted event

(26:55):
that you could add in the mission Creator and it
brings in some sort of outside facts. So like there
was one I remember I created, if I remember all this,
I created a German invasion of Malta scenario that was
kind of fun. And I did a like a capture
of Baku German scenario. And this was the time, like

(27:16):
I wasn't even interested in the Pacific at this at
this stage, so there's probably a ton of content that
I wasn't even paying attention to. I was just like, oh, yeah,
Germany in the Soviet Union, that's what's interesting to me. Yeah,
so I created like a capture of Baku scenario and
I used that kind of like scripting thing where once
the German side got to a city, then that would
trigger like a German parachute paratrooper drop somewhere else, and

(27:37):
I kind of kind of threw both sides to kind
of have to deal with that situation. But yeah, the
Mission Creator was what kept me playing that game for
probably a lot longer than the regular content had available.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, this actually looks pretty interesting the RTS battles on
this because you said access and Allies and I was like, oh,
the board game. I played the actual board game, but
this is actually is pretty interesting. I'm surprised. I don't know,
I know there's other access and allies, like online games
or whatever. I'm surprised they haven't kind of taken this
RTS element and kind of spun it off or done

(28:10):
something different with that. But because that access and allies
and name recognition, that brand, I mean that's huge, Like
everyone knows that.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
So yeah, I remember, like, so this game, like as
a kid playing and I remember there were some really
hard missions, Like man, I remember playing the US campaign
and landing on Okinawa and like constantly losing, and I
was like, how do I beat this game? Maybe they're
probably you know, as an adult, you're like, oh man,
these things, these scenarios are super easy. But you know,
as a kid, I love that challenge. So that's another

(28:41):
thing that kept be coming back to this game, that
it was challenging, at least for me.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I see, two thousand and four was a good year.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
I see, I know, I went back. I'm looking at
my list now and I have everything on my list
is from the first couple of years of the two thousand.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
I think mine are two, like, I mean three are
at least a little older.

Speaker 4 (29:01):
Who's next we'll pack?

Speaker 1 (29:02):
I think, yeah, we're going off the beaten path again
with something a little different.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
This one's a c RPG.

Speaker 4 (29:08):
Oh boy, not a JRPG. No, not a j I
what's the C stand for?

Speaker 2 (29:13):
So?

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Computer role playing game?

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Bolders Gate?

Speaker 3 (29:16):
It's boulders Gate too.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Boom.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
It was one of my first CRPGs. I played a
ton of it. I also played a ton of Ice
one Dale, which was a spin off that was made
by oh my gosh, the company, you know it. Someone's
thinking it.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
Interplay Hooded hord Hor, but.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, it was made by Interplay and Iceland. Dale was
really good as well. It was more of a dungeon crawler,
but the story and some of the set pieces and
boulders Gate were or boulders Gate too specifically or what
really kind of captured my imagination when I was younger,
and I was like, this is great, and it really
started a love of CRPGs. And you know, there's been
some lolls, but I've recently kind of gotten back into them.

(30:00):
Bulder's Gate three. Really, I guess kickstarted, like re I
guess ignited my love for CRPGs. And now I've been
looking at playing some Rogue Trader, which is a Warhammer
forty k CRPG.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
It's just a genre I've.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Always really enjoyed, and boulders Gate two is U is
a reason for that, along again with Ice one day,
all but one had to make it.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
On the list, so I went boulders Gate too.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
This is a great king, yeah, and I mean it
also started my love for you know, all things fantasy,
D and D things like that.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
So so I think that brings us back around to Tartuga, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
I know it's my turn, and I'm I didn't really
put any of these in order. So I have Balder's
Gate as oh, you like, maybe it's a good time
to mention that that. But I also have Total War
So let's go with balders Gate next. So we'll just
keep it short. Balder's Gate for me with the original,
I remember, I have vivid memory of playing the demo,

(31:02):
which you were allowed to play until just after you
leave Castle Wind or whatever the hell the first city's
name was, and then you can't really go any further.
And this is before I'd ever played any D and D.
So I actually thought that Armor class, which is a
very confusing thing back in that whatever version of that
is that the lower number is higher.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
It's two point five, right, that's the role system they use.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
So stupid. So I kept accruing basic leather armor, and
my PI sized brain couldn't handle the fact that when
I put on this better armor my number went down.
I was like, Oh, I guess leather's just really good
in this world. So I accrued like a gajillion leather
armors for my part. Oh so, you couldn't move any
further than like the one map. There was like a
couple areas you could go right outside of Castle Wind

(31:47):
or whatever the hell name was, but you could just
keep random encounters would happen if you kept going back
and forth to funerals areas. I probably spent one hundred
hours I'm not I kid you not in the demo,
just going back and forth and grinding. I had some
with the whole concept of a CRPG was so mind
blowing to me, so very very impactful. When I eventually
did get the full game played through, beat it loved it.

(32:09):
Bought the sequel. Yes, Balder's Gate two also good, but
for me, it doesn't. Nostalgia factor is just way higher.
For Balder's Gate, a game that you put like one
hundred hours into a demo, it's going to leave a
mark in your brain.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
And Bouldersgate one, I mean it's it's great as well.
I guess the I think they took with boulders Gate too.
They like just took everything up a notch with the
environments and everything. And I still think like some of
those environments aged really well in both the games. Yeah,
both really good games. And yeah, I know there was
a lot of there's some video. I'll send them to you.

(32:42):
He did a really good analysis of boulders Gate. Apparently
the whole Thaco thing was really confusing to a lot
of gamers in general too, and they always thought about
changing it to D and D like version three, that.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Would have made more sense.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah, anyway, it's all pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Well, I don't know, maybe I did take me some
time to learn it, but eventually, eventually it dawned on
me that no leather armor isn't better than spent mail.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
So, and you know, I really like the real time
with pause. I think that it's awesome watching the fights
play out, pressing space bar pausing and issuing like orders
to all of your you know, characters and watching it
just play out. I know it's kind of come out
of fashion. People don't like it as much, but I
still really like it. I think it's a pretty fun

(33:28):
system to me.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Another thing is the replayability of Like rolling a new
character is the first time. It's the first game I
played where this like RPG setup where you can spend
I remember, God, I had so much time as a kid.
What did I do with it? I spent probably ten hours. No,
that's way too much, but I spent a long ass
time rerolling for the Perfect eighteen Slash ninety nine.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Oh yeah, God.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
It took forever. But it's like, why did they make
you do that? Why can't you just choose it? Why?
You mean I did it? I spent probably over an
hour just you know, I would just listening to music,
fucking rerolling.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
You know what the worst part is, there were so
many times when I would just rerolling, I'd see it click,
you know, something actually pretty good?

Speaker 3 (34:11):
I know it?

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Oh my parents know. I think my mom probably could
remember this because she would probably hear me being like
they'd be like, what's wrong, and I'd be like, well,
the thing and then they immediately would not care when
they realized it was about a video game. But so
memories that I mean nostalgia, This is off the charts.

(34:32):
You can't not remember these things. Yeah, but the replayability
was huge, and I think that the the openness of
that world where you can do things any order. A
lot of the previous games I'd played were RTS is
where there's no such concept. It's like usually a linear
progression through the campaign. So that's yeah, that was very
very cool to me, like mind blowingly cool, which probably
brings us back to t She for his number three.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Yeah, so when you were talking about like your you know,
these dramatic moments of like your parents asking what the
hell is going on or whatever. This isn't my number three,
but it made me want to include NBA jam on
my list because I was like a sleepover staple of
like playing that thing till like three in the morning
with friends. But I guess you know. My number three
is Falcon four point zero, a flight sim game. Obviously

(35:17):
the Falcon series four point zero probably most well known
for having the dynamic campaign of the Korean War, you know,
as a single F sixteen pilot sort of participating in
this gigantic conflict where you're you know, you're one plane,
but somehow your one planes flight package results are going
to influence the entire war. But still, I think from

(35:39):
a nostalgia point of view, this game really lands where
it did because I'd never seen a game with such
a huge campaign, so many interlocking pieces, you like actually
feeling like a pilot in like a much larger world,
a much bigger world, like telling your own story as
a pilot within this larger world. And then you know,

(35:59):
that persistent clock was so huge to me. This idea
of like, hey, you're flying, all this other stuff is
going on at the same time, and when you're not flying,
the war is still going on. And so like I
built these own little stories in my mind of like
what was going on, and I would actually leave the
clock running at one x. And this is not good

(36:20):
from a play the game well point of view, but
I would leave the clock running when I when I
was in high school playing in this game, when I
would go to sleep, because my logic was like, well,
a real pilot has to sleep, and so you can't
be in the you can't be flying, you know, all
the time, and the game let you jump from plane
and package to plane and package, like you weren't really
one pilot. You weren't really there wasn't really downtime that

(36:41):
you had to manage. But like in my head, that's
the story I wanted to tell. And so you know,
this is just it's on the list less because of
the flight some element, like I turned some of the
realism stuff down. I was not a rivet counter as
a kid. What you know, I'm sure the way I played,
you'd be frowning at me, at Wolf, I come on, Wolf.

(37:02):
But I think the thing that really was to me
was so special about the game was just the scale
of the campaign, the persistence of the campaign and its
dynam is. And I don't think i've ever I've never
seen anything like that, and I don't know that anything's
gotten closed. There have been games with sort of nods
to it, but I don't think I've ever seen anything
like that before or since.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
You know, there's a buddy of mine the YouTube channel,
I'm gonna plug him, uh whatever. His name's Enigma. He
did an interview with the guy who designed that campaign
and he was an intern.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
I think I heard that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
And he made that campaign and like still twenty years later,
there's nothing that even comes close to what this guy made. Oh,
it's amazing. It's a cool interview. If any of you
are wondering, it's like interviewing the Falcon four campaign creator.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
The thing is, when I hear that story, I'm like,
first of all, that's amazing, but the second all, like,
what how has it not been duplicated?

Speaker 3 (37:58):
For?

Speaker 2 (37:58):
What has that guy gone on to do? If, like,
I can't he do something like this again.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
I believe he's still in the I think he's still
in the game industry. And in the interview he said, like,
it wasn't the flight sim aspects of it that really
interested him. I was like, he was playing a lot
of rts's, so he just made it like an RTS
and there you go.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
But yeah, I mean, so where did he go from there?
I'm curious. But that's we don't have to answer now.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
I'm sure he says in the interview, But yeah, it's
always funny that. I mean, that's the gold standard and
it's yet to be replicated or even nothing even comes close.
I think part of I don't know that this is
true within wargaming, but maybe maybe the rivet counter nature
of where flight sims have gone, like casual flight sims have.

(38:45):
I won't say they disappeared, but they certainly have gotten
Like people who are really into flight sims generally are
not so into the casual flight sims. And obviously Falcon
four point wasn't casual. You had a freaking binder of rules.
But I think like this sense of having something that's
imperfec and having something that isn't super polished and does
have flaws, because as awesome as that campaign was, there

(39:08):
are some rose colored glasses to that right there. There's
some jank in that campaign that I don't know if
it would stand up to like modern scrutiny. If you
were building that for an audience, I think folks would
find problems and flaws. And I think if you go
into that element, I think it's going to take a
lot more resources than a single intern to try and
really duplicate that a on a production level that people

(39:31):
would expect today. So maybe that plays part of part
of it.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
I don't know. Maybe I'm just talking on my ass
and I'm wrong.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Now, I think there has been a trend with simulation
games heading towards more fidelity and in the actual simulation
and less so much actual gameplay.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
I think the.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Prime you know example is DCS World Incredible airplane simulator.
The actual game world is effectively dead. And yeah there's
campaigns or what you can make it feel more alive,
but there's there's no real gameplay there. There's no living world.
And with Falcon there's a living world. With Ile two

(40:09):
in the campaign, it gives the illusion of a living
world a little more than anything in DCS.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
That's why I like I always. I mean, Silent Hunter
kind of has it right, like there is an element
of a living world in Silent Hunter three. Oh yeah, absolutely,
but your results don't impact it in the way that
Falcon does, which fine, Like, realistically, a single U boat
commander going ham is not going to change the war.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
And I will say I don't really like the concept
of it actually your actions changing the war in things
like Silent Hunter or Ile two historical historical games. I
guess I don't really care for that. Falcon it kind
of makes more sense because you're controlling more units than
one or you can right well, and if you don't,
you're probably losing, right, if you're not jumping from package

(40:53):
to package making sure that all those raids go successfully,
you're probably gonna lose the war. If you're really flying
like a single pilot, you're probably gonna lose the war.
But yeah, the olt history stuff never interested in me.
That It never interested me, especially when you're playing as
one unit and part of a just a small cog
in a much larger war machine, like just one pilot

(41:15):
on the Eastern Front. Yeah, he may have three hundred kills.
It doesn't mean anything, you know, in the grand scheme
of thing.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Yeah, but there's thirteen thousand and one oh nine G
six is alone, Like, good luck having one hundred extra
kills meaning anything. Yeah, So that's kind of my take
on that. But Falcon it makes sense because it's kind
of a I mean it's on the Korean peninsula, so
it's a little more isolated. It's a modern jet, I
don't know, and all the packages and flights inner. You know,

(41:43):
like if the said mission fails, then the follow on
strike's going to fail because the any aircraft is going
to tear apart the raid, and you know, like there's
a little bit more interlocking to the way the packages
are structured and kind of a modern air war. I
think then maybe exists in something like aile because the
world is so much smaller.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, well, and let's go on to another game finish.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
I think, all right, Yeah, my number three here is
going to be Railroad Tycoon three.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Great game.

Speaker 4 (42:13):
Yes, yeah, I know we've talked about Railroad Tycoon or
on the podcast, so I won't take up too much time,
I feel like, so thinking back to Railroad Tycoon two,
thinking back into my memory, that's probably the first video
game I ever remember seeing. I remember my dad playing
that game on the computer, and it's probably the first

(42:34):
game that I ever tried myself. But Railroad Tycoon three,
I think had a much more impactful nature. I guess
i'm my love for Tycoon games. When you're building the
train tracks, you're building your stations, you're watching the goods
flow across the map, and that kind of organic matter
of down rivers and across the land as they go

(42:58):
from you know, supplying demand kind of areas. So I
think that, yeah, Rare Tycoon was probably the defining game
for me to that started to love the tycoon genre. Trually,
I'll keep it to that. I know we've talked about
this game extensively, so if.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
I was to have my list to be a six,
i'd probably have Railroad Tycoon two on there. I didn't
play it on the PC. I rented it like multiple
times from best Buy because I'm old, But like I
played that on PlayStation. Also, I actually prefer the graphics
of two better. I think I like that two D
sprite view a little better than the three D of
the of the era.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
I kind of do too.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
But it had similar elements of like cities growing based
on supply and demand, and if you service the city,
it could get bigger. And I'd avoid Chicago and make
Milwaukee into a metropolis, you know, because on Wisconsin.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
Yeah, the city's growing in rare. Tycoon three was probably
one of my favorite things because I just love to
see your city become like a five star city. You
got a bunch of people going back and forth, You're
always transporting a bunch of goods. It kind of made
the world feel alive, like you're in your decisions were
making an impact.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Did three have the like whole stock market game that
two had? Yes, yes, I was. That was like my
introduction I think growing up to be like what's you
know what? What what's short selling? What's what's split? You
know what happens when the stock splits?

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Like?

Speaker 3 (44:16):
How does this work? Why am I always run? You know,
all of my attempts to take over my competitors fail
because I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
Yeah, that was my first look at the same kind
of stock market mechanics. Or it's like when your company's
kind of going broke and they investors suspend the dividend
and me as a kid, having no idea, what the
heck that even means?

Speaker 2 (44:38):
You know, that is truly just.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
Solidet, Like whatever, why is this pop up coming up
here right there?

Speaker 2 (44:45):
What are they dividing by? Anyway?

Speaker 3 (44:47):
It was three made by for Axis right, because or
was it?

Speaker 2 (44:52):
They were all the same. I don't know which.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
One look it up.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I thought at some point they kind of started farming
it out because I know two was he.

Speaker 4 (44:59):
Says, popped Top software.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
That sounds familiar, like I know who they are.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Because the series had its origin in sid Meyer. Yes,
like sid Meyer's at least rail Railroad one or whatever
it was was Sidmire.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
I think who was Railroad two? Was it also the company?
But not sid Meyer?

Speaker 3 (45:16):
Pop Top did two? Wow, there's like four development so
they must have like licensed it out or something.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Was one of the developers on that, Like, get what's
the same guy who went on to do Civilization two? Right,
So rare.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
Sid Meyer's Tycoon was the first in the series. And
it says designer sid Meyer Bruce Shelley.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Bruce Shelley.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Oh, okay, so this is what happens. So Railroad Tycoon
one was made by Micropros and sid Meyer's team, but
when sid Meyer left to go to for Axis, Micropros
a year after sid left sold the rights to pop
Top to make the sequel. So that's why Micropros stopped
making it, because because Micropros effectively started down the path

(45:58):
of going defunct, and all the people who had made
the original game were now at a new company, so
they just licensed it out to pop Top, who made
two and three.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
And it's really fascinating. I guess this is truly a
nostalgia trip, but it's really fascinating to just learn more
about these games that you know, they were just games
I played, and I could not have cared less who
designed the game when I was a kid, But now
I have some vague, some at least some interest in that.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
So that's all I have to say about rear Tycoon
three before.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
You move on, I just want to say that that
could that should be an honorable mention for me too,
because I remember my father. I kind of like watched
my father play. I think Number two, maybe it was
even the original, it was probably number two. Number two
did not have the thing where you can where you
actually run out of supply and demand right where three
has the dynamics supply and demand.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Like I don't know about run out, but like prices
would fluctuate, Yeah, it had.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
You're like the buildings that your station was next to
had like a demand, but it never changed like price.
I don't feel like prices changed and stuff like that.
It was always demand, like two goods are always demanding
four livestock or.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Well, I know, well, so I don't know about the
production and the factories, but I do know like homes
would change the amount of passengers they would produce based
on pre automobile versus post automobile. As time passed, there
would be changes to some of that stuff, and it
would tell you about it.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
I mean, my recollection is that number two did not
have a dynamic economy, whereas you could like actually starve
something out and it would like go bankrupt or whatever.
Whereas so two everything was could be floated by an
invisible economy, whereas three they actually try to make it
so that, oh yeah, if that thing doesn't get it,
it's actually going to delete itself. It's going to go bankrupt.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
You want, Yeah, I don't know that things would delete
would delete, But untwo you could buy like steel mills
or other industrial production facilities, and they could either lose
you money or gain you money.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
I feel like I do remember businesses, factories, et cetera
disappearing in two they would for sure in three.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
I don't remember two. It's all twenty years.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
I'm quickly looking at the road Tycoon three Wikipedia page.
Under the campaign section, it has the future campaign twenty
twenty five to twenty eighty.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
I'm interested in hearing the next game from wolf Pac
three for five. He's been quite over there. I know
what he's doing. He's thinking about what he's gonna say,
how he can defend this awful pick.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
He's like, listen, I know this is a strategy podcast,
but I'm gonna hit you with chess.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
You know, chess is a pretty influential game there was
this Chess Master game is like computer chess.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
I played a lot.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
That's a that's a nostalgic game, right there. Yeah, that's
my that's my number three. No, I'm just kidding number
three Rome Total War Baby Hell yeah, so not that,
not that expansion crap.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
That the good thing?

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Yeah, tell me, at least it's with moll.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Why would you need Monz.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Barberam Invasion, all the war realism? Those were great, unmoded.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Like you understand how wrong you are, TG. I mean,
you may not be wrong in your own brain, but
everybody in the world knows that the original is better.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
It's bad THHG likes to act like he was such
a Rome expert when he was what fourteen playing Rome
Get out of here.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
I think secretly this is all just a bit and
he's like he has dug a trench. It's like too
late for him to back down, so he's probably like,
oh no, he probably loves the original Rome one.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
I don't know best Total War game has an aged
the best? Uh objectively? No, I've gone.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Medieval Total War was better than Rome, to be clear,
But ok okay, it's my time. I have this guy.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
I have the talking stick okay, uh, Rome Total War.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
I spent I.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Don't know how many thousand hours probably just constantly playing
this game, so many nostalgic memories of just Pontus being
incredibly powerful and me just like smashing ahead against the
wall because once you get in that late stage game
that Ai just built stack after a stack of massive armies.
I'm making it sound really fun, but it is. It

(50:10):
ignited a love for Rome, and no, it's uh, it's
not the most historically accurate, Like obviously you just take
one look at Egypt and you're like, okay, but the
it as character and that's what matters. A lot of
the gameplay. Mechanics are good, the battles are awesome. Game
looked beautiful, Yeah, good RTS ten out of ten. The expansion,

(50:32):
you know, and it had a good set of expansions.
Alexander was okay, it was fine. It was fun to
play around for a couple of hours, and Barbarian invasion
was was suitable.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
It was interesting to see the units change really when
you got to the new expansion.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Even the units change as you progress throughout.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Oh, the Maris reforms.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
It's good and I did, like I understand the critique
of the three family system.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
But it did make the Civil.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
War a lot of fun when you finally built up
and you were like, yes, I'm ready to go to
war with my Roman brothers. Like that civil war moment
is just it's amazing, it's really good.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yes, okay, this is what we got to say.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
It would be it would be better if it was
an actual civil war, though it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Look at that. The point is that this is a game,
and that is like, Okay, there a lot of games
struggle with late game content. You become so powerful, what
do you do? And Rome Total War actually had a
solution for that, brilliant solution, one that worked really well,
and it's one that they continue to employ. I mean
they do the same thing in like Showgun, right, Okay
at the very end, now you gotta go take out
everyone's going to attack you, right, So it's it's brilliant.

(51:40):
Whether it's historically accurate or not, probably not, but it's
just a really good way of keeping the players interest
in the lake game, like reviving your interest. Like I
remember saving the game and being like, okay, this is
the turn I'm going to do it.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yeah, you know, like.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
That's and I have I have four Like I forget
the exact name of the agent, but I'm gonna bribe
four of their armies right off the bat outside their cities.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yes, I was gonna say, like you had this problem
with all these enemy units, like my economy. You know,
you just got all the trades set up for the Mediterranean.
You're making tons of money. You have no you like
have no? I had like millions of whatever ducats whatever
they're called, the NARII, and I would just bribe all
the armies. I just send diplomats everywhere.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
I mean even small things like that. The modern total
war games don't even do. It's like you look at
the roads you've built on the campaign map and you
see little carriages going driving on the roads, and the
more carriages there are is like the more you're trading,
the more ships you see crossing your trade routes, the
more you're trading. I don't know the world felt it

(52:45):
made you had an impact, And I really do not
feel that way with modern total war games. You build
your city and it looks cool, it's like a spectacle
on the campaign map, but you don't see the roads
you ordered built having an impact. Really besides just number
go up. You don't actually see it, see it happening.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
So I've been talking a fair bit. But let me
just merge mine with yours. No, I figured, yeah, Rome
Total War was on there, and.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Was it your number three or was it higher?

Speaker 2 (53:13):
So I didn't have a real good order to this.
I've been trying to order it just on the fly. Technically,
I guess it was my number two. Okay, but yeah, okay,
So I just have this one memory, This might be
my most vivid memory of all my gaming history, this
one time where I was in Egypt playing as Scorpio Scorpio,
Scipio Skippy, I skipy Eye, the guys who start next

(53:36):
to Carthage. And by the way, I think they're the
worst people to start. Well, I don't know, maybe they're better.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Than they're difficult because you have to like build a navy. Yeah,
as the Julie, which is always what I played, because
they're red. Yeah, Roman's red. I don't know, uh, but yeah,
let's gip be I guess are a little more difficult.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Hunt the Brute are actually the best. I mean objectively,
I played as all three and they are the best.
They it's the easiest to win is them. This was
the SKIPPYI and I made it all the way around
to Egypt, and I remember I had this one super
elite army with twenty you know, full twenty stack insane
past the Mars reforms already, and I went to attack
this one city that had I think towards the late game,

(54:14):
every army is like a twenty stack, just like this army.
I mean this example, I attacked, I see the city,
and the term before I was gonna actually attack them,
they moved three other full stack armies next to their
city and they attacked me. Wow, so this was Yeah,
this is insane. I'll never forget this number one moment

(54:34):
gave me a moment of my like in my life.
So then I what I did is when I was attacked,
all these II armies are forming on from the sides,
and I steam roll the city, conquer it, and then
use their own walls to defend against them, and I
won like a heroic victory. It was. It was just awesome.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
I mean I was actually recently playing the remaster and
the remaster is not perfect. I really am annoyed they decided.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
To change the UI.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah me too.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
I wish the UI was exactly as it was, just rescaled,
remastered compatible with other resolutions.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
They changed it. I feel like they made it more
like mobile friendly or something, because there's just a lot
of in there.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
I think the first thing they did with the remaster,
like I don't know that they called it the remaster,
but I think the company that did the remastered is
the one who pourted the game over to iPad Yep, yep,
it's it's visible, and so I'm assuming they just took
the work they did for that and we're like, all
right now we're gonna post it on Steam. Is the
remastered version basically, well, there.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Are significant differences, Like the remaster looks really good, but yeah,
the UI, it's just it's like menus within menus, and
like that original UI, you click up, you open a
scroll and you see everything you need, Like you look
at a city and you see exactly what's causing issues there,
like how much squalor you know, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah, why did they hide shit? Man?

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:57):
And just hiding that behind menus? That is bad UI design.
Any game devs you know out there, I don't just
that original Rome, Total War You and Medieval since they're essentially,
you know, Medieval is just Rome, you know, reskinned.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
But it may ruffle some feathers, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
It's just you open up the scroll and you see
everything right off the bat and the symbols. You don't
even have to hover over it to know what it means.
You see a little rat symbol like that ain't good,
you know, and now.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
Unless it's ratituey.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Unless it's ratituey.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
But generally the Roman rats are not remmy Yeah, I
don't know, but the remaster is still as fun. I
was playing it, and I was playing it with mods.
A lot of the mods for Rome are very good,
and a lot of the mods for Rome Total War
have aged rather well, like Europa Barberam that's the one
I played quite a bit of and that mod is phenomenal.

(56:52):
So and that was for the original one. Unfortunately they
haven't they're not going to pourt it over to the remaster.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, good game.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah you might if I go next anyways, Okay, Rome
Total War. I'm not going to use this one, but
I had I kind of had six, so that means
I'm just going to next that one from my list,
even though it's definitely on there.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
This is going to be a long podcast.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Well, we can this, We'll keep this one short. I'll
just say I have on here the SIMS two, which
also two thousand and four, Rome Total War two thousand
and four, a lot of games two thousand and four.
I'm starting to notice a trend.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
What was going on in two thousand and four, Yeah,
and some good stuff.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Anyway. It's also coincides with the fact that I was
in college at that time and did not care about
going to class, so I did. I had a lot
of potential for creating nostalgia around that period of time.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Basically single mall strategy podcast de Players two thousand and
four the best year for video games.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I would I would actually, well, we'll see at the
end of this, but yeah, I would probably second that.

Speaker 4 (57:50):
Nope, he says, nope.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Anyway, the SIMS two is a great game. I have
some nostalgia signed sorry, I have some nostalgia associated with it,
which is a little bit negative. I was given this
game by a guy, a friend of mine in high school,
Ryan Delaney Rest in Peace, who a year later was
killed in a drunk driving car accident. So this I

(58:12):
can't like not think about the Sims too when I
think about games I was playing in high school. It
was his gift, So thank you, Ryan, wherever you are.
And also, besides that story, very I remember that this
was one of the few games that I could play
with my siblings that everyone she said that kind of
heavy hand did Yeah, sorry, but no, that's I think mistalgia.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
I don't know how to follow that up. That's the fuck.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Yeah, there we go. These things happen, No they shouldn't.
But the game on its own, like even without that story,
it's the first game I could play with my sisters.
My sisters enjoyed designing houses, they enjoyed. I mean, this
is a game which is much more from your stereotypical image,
at least back in two thousand, pre two thousand. Without

(58:59):
trying to get politically correct and all that, but I
feel like a lot of the games I played were
predominantly played by guys, and at least the girls in
my family had no interest in them. And the Sims
too was like the first where we had common ground.
I remember going on vacation with my siblings and we
would be with graph paper designing our houses for when

(59:22):
we were going to go back home and play the
Sims two again. So I don't know. This definitely has
some nostalgia, some real positive noslagia associated with it. In fact,
it's something we could I could even bring up with
my with my sisters today. Do you remember designing those
houses on graph paper? So, and it's a very good
game too. I mean, I think that you can play
it in so many different ways. I used to play
it kind of like a tycoon. I would have a

(59:45):
specific family household set up, Like one guy was the
one who would stay home and do all the cooking
and cleaning and then see I was, I was very progressive.
And then the two other guys would go to work.
They didn't have to any cleaning or whatever because they
were one hundred percent career focus. So I could make
the most amount of money. It's like a perfect tycoon setup.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
He's min Mac sing the lives of three people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
I was. It was awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
It's funny you say that about the family piece though, Tortuga,
because like my so, my sister was not big into games.
She had an N sixty four that she would never
let me use, but she had like two games for it.
It was like she got it for like Mario Kart,
and then she played like Crash Bandicoot on the PlayStation
a little bit. But the first game that she like
went Deep Down a rabbit Hole was actually the SIMS

(01:00:34):
two Boom. Now I played more of the SIMS one.
I went to a sleepover and they had the SIMS
one and we played it all night long, and like
I went, I loved that game, but I think by
the time two came out, I was kind of a
little less interested. But that was definitely a game that
really hooked my sister and she had so many expansions

(01:00:55):
for that. I'm sure my mom still has discs just
like somewhere squirreled away for that. But yeah, it definitely
resonated with my sister as well, who was not a
big gamer except when the SIMS was involved.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I guess yeah, yeah, did it really appeeals to like everyone? Because,
like I said, you can play it in so many
different ways. You can play it as like a dating sim.
You can play it as in my case, a factory system.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
It's like that Always Sunny episode where they start a
factory in the basement.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
That's right, that was inspired by my way of playing
the impact.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Yeah, I can imagine. I vaguely remember my sister making
me play it every now and then because she wanted
someone else to make houses in the neighborhood. Because those games,
like it's like, well, you have to network, right, like
to get promotions, you have to have a certain number
of friends or whatnot.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
And like, oh, I named maxa shit out of that too.
I build a bunch of mott like shell families just
so I had like with eight kids. No, no, they
were adults, eight adults. So I had more friends because
the career track, and at SIMS two you need a
certain amount friends.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
The SIMS two is the most realistic reflection of Captain.
These people sound so miserable they were with the SIMS too,
And I don't want to go political. SIMS to the
most realistic representation of being an adult in your career,
Like networking is important, baby, don't forget about making friends.

(01:02:19):
What even what SIMS game are they even on? I
think it's still four. They've been on that forever really,
and they're just like doing DLC.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Right, yeah, exactly, And they really leaned into the DLC stuff,
So it's it's really not the SIMS four.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
I mean it started with two though two had so
many discs an add on, I.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Can tell you the ones that were important, because I
remember there was two expansions. I mean I might not
remember all their names, but there was the Ikea expansion.
I remember that that actually brought some some value to
the stuff you could buy a lot of it was crap,
but that one was good.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
My one of my coworkers for a while was the
product manager that brought the SIMS four to I think
it was the Xbox, so I had some interesting conversations.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
With him, But like, how do you sleep with yourself
at night?

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
I never played it on the Xbox, so I wouldn't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
I just feel like they're business models so insanely like DLC.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Well, that's another interesting topic, just DLC in general, because
there are pros to these games receiving funding over time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Let's have this a different topic for real, though. I
think we could have a good discussion about that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Yeah, agreed, Who's next? What am I up to? Two? Two?
So I was going to go with Warren the Pacific
Admirals Edition, and then I realized, I don't know if
that's really a nostalgia thing because I'm like still playing
it a lot, but I do have nostalgia for Gary
Griggsby's War in the East, not or sorry, Warren Russia
is what I'm thinking of. So before Gary Griggsby started

(01:03:43):
publishing through Matrix Games, he made games and I think
this was might have been published by SSI as well,
which Joel Billings, who's like the two x three business
side person, was I believe one of the founders of SSI,
so that's kind of where their relationship came from. But yeah,
so War in Russia was like the predecessor to War

(01:04:03):
in the East, and then they also had a war
like Pacific War as well, So it's kind of like
those two games, I would say, is up there, and
those were the first, Like I don't have a ton
to say about them other than they were the first
experience that I had with like true deep Grognard games
where it's like you're tracking individual types of tanks on

(01:04:26):
the Eastern Front. Every single division is included on the
Eastern Front, hundreds and hundreds of units, and you were
fighting the war out in small time increments and it
was just the like I remember just there's one of
those games where it was like one more turn, one
more turn, one more term. Oh my god, it's five
in the morning and I've got to go to high school.

(01:04:46):
And it was pretty cool too because at the time,
and I don't know if they're still doing this, but
at the time Matrix Games actually they must have had
a license for it or something, because they offered like
legit not even like pirating or torrenting or whatever. Like
they legit offered free download for War in Russia and
Pacific War, which did a similar thing in the Pacific War,
you know, same level of fidelity, where I think that

(01:05:07):
was like their attempt to try and market like War
in the Pacific and War in the East the newer
versions of the game to be like, hey, if you
download these free predecessor versions, you can get a sense
for like what this kind of a game might be like.
But just like that whole series of those games, I mean,
even warre In War in the West, like all of
those Gary Grigsby games that you could download at least

(01:05:28):
back then legitimately for free, they just introduced me to
like a whole different world of war gaming that I
think really sort of speaks to the kind of things
I'm interested in. Uh, certainly don't follow your UI codes,
you know, like that's those are games where menu upon
menu upon menu. But they just they were the first

(01:05:50):
games that felt like, wow, this is capturing the scale
of the Second World War in a way that makes
it feel like it probably should, you know, even for
a top level commander, as opposed to most games around
that time period would be the scale because computing power
was so limited, the scale would be so much less.
So I guess what I'm saying is all of the

(01:06:10):
Gary Griggsby War in the series, that's a cop op.
All right, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Some guy commented on one of my videos it was
a submarine game. He said, this looks like work, And
then I checked out his channel and all he was
playing was War in the Pacific, and I just thought
that was pretty fun.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
I mean, those games just they're brutal. Oh gosh, I
played what the it was like the Leutian Islands scenario
and War in the Pacific. I can understand why you're
nostalgic for it. It is it is an impressive feat.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
I would also say the War in the games were,
in my opinion, War in Russia was far more approachable
than War in the It had a lot of the
same detail, but it was it was not it you
could I remember, I just picked it up. I didn't
know what I was doing, and as the Russians, I
was just like, hey, this seems like maybe in June
I should not be trying to fight the Germans on
the border. I'm just gonna fall all the way back
to this river line a little bit in front of

(01:07:11):
Moscow and just start building a line here with all
the units, build a cohesive line and try and hold.
And it worked. Like I you're not managing the economy
in that game. Production occurs and you kind of need
to be aware of some things and you need to
keep an eye on like attrition in units. It was
not I'm sure most gamers would feel like it was overwhelming,
but it was not overwhelming in the way that And

(01:07:31):
maybe it's just because I had more time in high
school as opposed to where I'm at now in my life,
but I didn't feel like I could. I had a
ton of difficulty learning how to play that game. I
struggle even now with like War in the East and
War in these two set aside time to actually play
them to actually learn what I'm doing. They do feel
much more complex. The UIs are a little bit better,
but like there's more to cover and more to manage

(01:07:53):
and more to like be aware of. And I don't
know what off it matters and what if it doesn't
and what I can ignore and what I can't, but
like it. I for some strange reason, I feel like
those games were just maybe that I don't know, it
seemed a little bit easier to pick up and just
fiddle your way through and play. So those are That's
my number two.

Speaker 4 (01:08:11):
All right, moving on my turn, all right? My number
two is Silent Hunter two two. Part of the reason I, yeah,
I picked two, has had a feeling someone might want
to talk about a Silent Hunter three, which I do
love Silent Hunter three more than I actually loved Silent
Hunter two, but kind of like real Tycoon two. It
was one of the first games I remember watching as

(01:08:31):
like a video game, watching my dad play that game,
And sometime earlier this year or whatever, I watched a
YouTube video of someone playing all the scenarios when I
remember playing. Silent Hunter two is definitely a game how
we talked about before. I have nostalgia for it. Looking
at it now, it's like, man, this is actually kind
of bare Bones. I didn't realize the game didn't have

(01:08:54):
a campaign like Silent Hunter three did in terms of
you sail around and you do your own stuff everything
with scripted missions in Silent Hunder two, so I didn't
remember that until watching this gameplay. I do like how
the game kind of just sets you in the certain
compartments of the U boat. You can really only see

(01:09:15):
outside the periscope or through the buy Knox on the bridge.
Everything was pretty much just the screen, and I do
kind of like that simplicity of a game like that.
It makes sense for like if you made some game
on an app now, that kind of just like the
screen of the compartments makes sense. Obviously, there's limitations of games.

(01:09:36):
The sile Hunder two came out in two thousand and one,
so there's definitely limitations there. And one thing I wanted
to think I was thinking about was Silent hundred two
going from these two D screens, and then you had
Silent Hunter three going into a three D world. We
had Rarod Tycoon two going in like that isometric two
D sprite, and then you had the big jump to

(01:09:56):
Rarerod Tycoon three, which was a three D world. So
like these games, like this time period of games, it's
early two thousands, really made some leaps in terms of
what was presented to the gamers. I really just yeah,
picked I picked Sile hundred two because I think, you know,
I can't expect Wolf it was going to talk about
Sign one hundred three, and I like Silent hundred three more.
But I want to give Silent hundred to the credit

(01:10:19):
of kind of taking the It was like the first
one to do German. You both because because the original
Silent Hunter was in the Pacific, which would be nice
if there was a game that went back to that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
But Aces of the well, so it was the first
Silent Hunter game, but there were very similar like Aces
of the Deep I think was very similar. Yeah, Aces
of the Deeps.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
I mean it's a fair bit older in nineteen ninety five,
nineteen ninety three, so I.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
You think Wolf's looking these up, but he just knows
these dates.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Well something like that. It's like it's early nineties.

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
I think. I will say Silent hundred two is the
first submarine game I ever bought a copy of, and
I like, I remember enjoying it. But when Silent Hunter
three came out and you could like it's like I
can just sail wherever, Like I get a grid and
I'm just supposed to patrol it. Like that broke my
brain because I think at the time too came out,

(01:11:17):
like so many games were really scenario driven. I think
developers thought like, that's what people want to play, and
I know Silent Hunter one kind of had the patrol
zone that I never had. I hadn't played it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
It all just inspired by a Silent Service.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Though Silent Service had a more dynamic campaign.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Definitely Aces of the Deep did as well. But a
lot of these games, the sub sims of that time,
like Some hundred one and two, also Dangerous Waters and
Subcommand were all scenario base, which are two sub sims
that I don't they're honorable mentions, especially Subcommand for me.
But and Jane six eighty eight it was scenario based

(01:11:55):
as well. It was more popular. But yeah, Aces of
the Deep's a big one I can think of that
had a kind of dynamic campaign the Silent Service campaigns.
It's different in the Silent Hunter because you just have
your map, you go around. It's it's more similar to
Cold Waters where you track your boat on the map
and then you get plucked into an engagement.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Yeah, okay, you're right, that's true. I guess I meant
it only from the fact that you have this open world. Sure,
but you're right. That's a big difference of your open
world in first person or going to like some completely
separate strategic.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Map, right like the Silent Hunter. We'll talk about it later.
Maybe I don't know, but the one hundred and three
open world where you can you use your time compression
and then you dive, I don't know, you're just doing
You're just doing that all in the one world and
then get a hydrophone contact like you can do that
all in the control room. That's pretty novel.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Yeah, you're at the you know. So, I'm sure we
won't talk about that again.

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
No, we'll never talk about a Silent hundred three again.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
But yeah, Solid Hunter two. I had a lot of
fun in that one as well, I do. I played
it after Silent Hunter three, and I was just appointed
upon playing it and being like, oh, it's just scenarios.
Like you said, the scenarios are cool. But yeah, it
is indeed just scenarios, but the graphics are cool. I
do agree with what Finish was saying that that style

(01:13:14):
of subsm where you have all you go to the
control room and you have all your gauges aligned just however,
like whatever for gameplay purposes, kind of like six eighty
eight or subcommanded, the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
I never played six eighty eight, but I played Fast
Attack by Sierra. I think I was played the hell
out of that game.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Well, sixty eight is very similar to Dangerous Waters.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Yeah, you have your gauges set up and you just
go to different stations and there are two D stations
that you click around on. I am surprised that it
seems like retro games are becoming more popular, like smaller
games made by smaller teams. I'm surprised that that Silent
hunder two formula has not been replicated and just a

(01:13:57):
smaller subsem. I guess the new oh gosh, i'm blanking.
The new microprost title gets kind of close to Silent Service.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
Too, Silent Depth too pacific.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
There's always a silent and then something, then a number
most likely exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
Or water it's silent or water.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
You know you got, and then the location where it happened. Yeah,
like you said, Wolf, I for Silent Hunter two. I
do like that. Once you're on that, like you're in
that compartment, you're at the periscope, you're looking at the
gauges or whatever. In the control room, everything is right there. Yeah,
everything that you see is things that you interact with
to dive, raise the periscope, fire your torpedoes. It was

(01:14:38):
all just concise, simple, concise, user friendly, it's all.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
There was Silent Hunter to the one that had an
interface with Destroyer Command or was that Silent Hunter three?
Sure did.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
That was Solid Hunter two, which you could play PvP
or whatever with the Destroyer Command game, which I've only
dabbled in. Unfortunately, I kind of wish I played more
of that at the time. But a no, it's a
cool time.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
I mean, these are games from back in the day
where you'd walk into a Best Buy or a circuit
City and you would see these games on the shelf.
Like That's the other piece of nostalgia for me is
like this was back when you had sims and war
games and you you bought them in freaking stores like
they were quasi mainstream at least in the sense that
you could be on main street and see them.

Speaker 4 (01:15:19):
The last thing I wanted to say, last last thing.
Silent Hunder two had some of the best like in
game music. I'm gonna link it here in our little chat,
but like the menu music was just so good.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
Uh huh, it does go hard. I use it in
videos frequently because it's a bigger.

Speaker 4 (01:15:34):
Sild Hunter two for me, is almost more that main
menu music than anything else. It was like it really
set the tone.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
I love how creepy the music was when you went.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
I think it was like the confute, like the settings
menu or whatever, Like the music got really creepy, and
it's like the soundtrack is like scared me. I remember, like,
who's next you, I'm next? Okay, this is just perfect
tie in. I remember thinking the Japanese music and Ile

(01:16:05):
two Pacific Fighters was incredibly creepy as well and unnerving,
and it gives a similar feeling to Silent Hunter two's
meant music and uh yeah, that's my that's my number
number two or whatever. It's Ile two, the original baby
along with Pacific Fighters, which released I don't know shortly

(01:16:28):
after a couple of years later, but that original Ile
two game. For those of you that don't know, Ile
two is a flight simulator. That original Ile two game
really ignited my interest in the Eastern Front, and it
was probably one of the first. It wasn't my first
flight ZEM, but it was definitely the most influential and
the one I spent spent so much time in.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
But yeah, i'le two. What's there more to say?

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Ile two nineteen forty six. That was Wasn't that a
compilation of like the gold version of like Ile two the.

Speaker 3 (01:16:59):
Original and exactly?

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
And I have vivid memories, so I remember getting the
Firstyle too, and I have vivid memories of forcing my
parents to buy the Forgotten Battles expansion pack for this game.
And I don't know, I just played the absolute crap
out of it, along with the more dynamic campaigns that
were quite fun. At the time, I wasn't as interested

(01:17:22):
in the Pacific, so I didn't play as much of
the Pacific Fighter stuff, kind of like what Finn was saying,
just younger and I was like, the Germans put me
in a one oh nine baby, that's all I wanted
to fly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Really very interesting that you say that, because I usually
wanted to play as the Americans. But you know, you
do you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Well, and there was no there was no real Western Front,
and like if there was a Western Front, I'd play
more as the Americans.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
They had much larger air battles, right, Yeah, they were
pretty large overall, I'd say, because that's one of the
things that and maybe it goes back to the fidelity argument.
When you're rivet counting and everything is so folk on
the fidelity of your individual plane, the rest of the
world suffers because I do feel like Ile two Great Battles,
one of my critiques is it does feel like most
of the campaign stuff, the battles are fairly small in

(01:18:11):
terms of number of aircraft engaged.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
Yeah, and that's like as far as like, again, you're right,
it is a fidelity thing. Like all the AI pilots
and Ile two Great Battles, you are under the same
exact limitations that the player is, so you don't have
UFO you know behavior by AI aircraft, which absolutely happened
in the original Aisle two. There are some walky behavior

(01:18:35):
in that game.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
But but it's still cool to see like forty you know,
Stuke is going on that port attack in Leningrad or
whatever the scenario. There's a scenario like that, isn't there?
I thought I saw you playing something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Tortuoka at some point that was in the latest game.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
The I thought that was. I thought it was the
nineteen forty six.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Which I think I didn't. I think Wolf and I
did that one together. Okay, I don't remember I did
a diet bombing.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Maybe I don't know. I I do like great Battles
quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:19:02):
I'm not say great Battles is good. I just I
think the older games had a sense of scale, even
like Battle of Britain too. That was another one of
those old flight sims that had that had scale that
you don't see in newer games.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
Another one with a dynamic campaign. Yep, yeah, yeah, I
played a bit of that one too.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
European Air War had I've never played that one, but
I was told that also had like hundreds of planes.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
Yeah, the scale on that one's kind of unmatched. But
like it does go back to the fidelity thing. But yeah,
I Ile two, Great bat or Ile two original and
then later in nineteen forty six. I still remember, like
the music's absolutely amazing. I still like remember the original
Ile two. Like games used to have intro movies, which

(01:19:45):
I guess has gone out of fashion. I still remember
that original Isle two intro movie and it was just
like the start of Operation Barbarosa. That was the whole thing,
because the original one only had like three campaigns, so
you can play as an Isle two. Yeah, and then
there was a one o nine campaign, and I played
the one oh nine campaign over and over again, and

(01:20:07):
then the Aisle to one as well. It was never
a big fan of the Yax early on, but I've
grown to appreciate those jankie Soviet fighters.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
I was compiling an honorable mention list along with my
main list, and I had aces over the Pacific on that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:23):
Oh yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
It's probably from the early nineties. It's really old. But yeah,
that was probably my first experience. Anyway, it wasn't It
didn't make it the list, but I remember playing. I
actually think we played multiplayer with not Land, but it
was like TCIP connection connection.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Oh cool, fun.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
Anyway, that's my number two and moving on.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Oh I guess to me, okay, good, Well, when did
the cutoff for you guys occur? Like? What, I have
a game here, which is a two thousand and seven game.
I was playing two thousands? Is that already beyond nostalgia?
Is that too?

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
No, that's good. That's wherever I go.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
This is essentially my This is where I cut off,
because I do have some games even after this, even
a year after this, I would mention otherwise, but I'm
going to go with Heartspiring two with all the expansions,
so Doomsday and Armageddon. The reason why this is instalgic
for me, First of all, it was the first Paradox
game I had really played. That's not entirely true. I
was somewhat familiar with some titles that I just didn't

(01:21:24):
really dive into. I had seen them, but this is
the first game that I spent time to learn and
I became a hardcore strategy gamer. I think maybe partly
because of Hearts Firing two. I love it. I think
it's it's actually pretty approachable, at least for a Heartspiring game,
but it has all the depth if you want to
get deeper and you want to make your own divisions

(01:21:44):
with your specific brigades, and it's awesome. So yeah, I
played the crap out of this for an entire year
when I was in Spain, I basically played nothing but
this game because it's the only game that would run
on my laptops. So I default it did, but I
also I loved it and I played it after I
got back. I remember big campaign I actually did again.

(01:22:07):
A lot of these nostalgia moments are connected with multiplayer,
and for me, often with my father because I have
no friends, at least not until after college. But yeah,
so I played a campaign with my father where he
was Italy and I was Germany and we took over
the whole world. In fact, there's times it's been a while,
but maybe like five years ago, even my dad even
mentioned that. Yeah, I mean every now and then I

(01:22:29):
pick up that campaign and even though you're not in
it day, I just plays as you as Germany, and
I still go around like conquering forgotten provinces in like
South America or It's pretty funny. So yeah, Heart's Mine
two a good game and definitely nostalgia.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
I'm surprised that did it make Fens list.

Speaker 4 (01:22:46):
Parts of Iron two is a game I did not play.

Speaker 3 (01:22:48):
Oh really, Oh my bad? Never mind.

Speaker 4 (01:22:50):
I started with three.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
Oh it was three.

Speaker 4 (01:22:53):
Three could have made the list if I made a
longer list, but I don't feel like it beat out
anything on my current list.

Speaker 3 (01:23:00):
Give two, I found out a half priced books somewhere
not that long ago, and I was like, eh, well
it was more than ten years ago, so I guess
it was a long time ago. But I remember like
trying to play it, and I was just like, I'm
not really in the mood for this at this time.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
I think it's a great game, and I think it
I don't know it really had well, I don't know.
This is not an episode about over selling Heartspiring two,
otherwise I would, I think. But it is a very
good game. It was very good balance. I think as
far as like trying not to get too much into detail,
people obviously pulled back or resisted some of the complexity

(01:23:35):
of Heartspiring three. I think if you had played Hartspiring two,
Heartspiring three was a much more natural thing to pick
up and play. Tch which you'd like to reveal your
number one?

Speaker 3 (01:23:44):
Yeah, My number one is sid Meyer's Gettysburg, which is
a real time tactical war game made by for Axis.
I think it was their first game, I think, and
it covers the Civil War. It I think is still
it holds up.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Wait, sid Meyers Gettysburg covers the Civil.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
War, Well covers the Battle of Gettysburg in the Civil War.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
Yeah, it's cool that a game is actually covering the
Spanish Civil War.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
Yeah, I know what war tell us.

Speaker 3 (01:24:14):
You know, someone someone commented in uh and on my
on the last podcast, They're like, it's really funny. How
thgg you just got roasted by by some of the
other the other guests with your takes on tower defense.
But you know, so I guess, I guess we got
another episode of this.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
But well, you did say that frost Punk was a
tower defense game.

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
I asked if you needed a tower and I don't
know if you do.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
Guys, will pack finish is frost book?

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
It's like just surviving the elements?

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Yeah, that's what someone else said. Is a survival game
if you're gonna call it anything.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
Right, and at its core, at its core, tower defense games.

Speaker 4 (01:24:54):
Are survival tower defense game. Is the Monkey's throwing the
darts at the balloon?

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
Yeah, that's my favorite example. Well, anyway, so Sid Meyers
Gettysburg my number one game. I think this is still
the best example of what a wargame can be when
it gets adequate investment and is very well designed. There
is so much in the game. You know, it's a

(01:25:20):
scenario based game, so you don't fight the battle out
all in real time, but basically it's like you fight
individual portions of the Battle of Gettysburg out they link
together their dynamic to a point, right, Like the scenarios
are not dynamic, but the direction you go down the
campaign is based off the prior battles, and it influenced

(01:25:43):
pretty much every real time tactical wargame that came after it,
be it the Take Command series which was developed out
of it, the Great Battle series for the Napoleonic games
which came out of it, the Ultimate General Games all
very clearly have inspiration from it. I think it's also
one of those few games where you can see a

(01:26:04):
high level of production value. This was one of those.
This was in the era of full motion video acting
between battles, where you'd have you know, actors kind of
explaining what was going on. It had this brilliant, you know,
way of showing you where on the battlefield you were
and what was going on based on this map that
they would show you in each mission briefing that kind

(01:26:24):
of allowed you to follow the battle on almost like
an Atlas type map. It just was. It was brilliant
in so many ways. It was so well polished. I
don't think any wargame has ever risen to this level
of polish and finish since then. And you know, it's
just it's what you would expect if you ever had
a war game with kind of I mean, it wasn't

(01:26:47):
really a Triple A game, but like if you were
to give a war game the budget, it needs to
make it as good as it can be with all
the modern design concepts of its era, like that would
be this game. And you know, they they ended up
doing Antietam after that, which was a sequel, which did
not perform as well. They try to do like an
all online digital distribution, which I think was part of

(01:27:09):
the reason it didn't do well. Also, a lot of
that polish around briefings and things faded away because it
was a one day battle versus three day battle, so
a lot of that storytelling faded away. And then unfortunately,
unfortunately Sid Meyers, he wanted to do a Waterloo game,
but EA, who was their publisher at the time, said
why don't you do something else, and so he did
Alpha Centauri after But yeah, I think Sid Meyers Gettysburg

(01:27:32):
is my number one. It's a good number one.

Speaker 4 (01:27:34):
Yeah, you had some really high praise for this game.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
It is good. I still I found a way to
get it running maybe a year or two ago, and
I played a lot of it still and it still
holds up.

Speaker 4 (01:27:44):
Well. I look it forward to watching this episode on
the YouTube so I can watch gameplay when we talk
about so Gettysburg.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
Yeah, I mean, the graphics are obviously dated and some
of the user interfaces a little clunky because it does
have some crash issues now on a modern system, but
it is still it is. It is very good.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Well, with that, let's hop over to Finn's number one.

Speaker 4 (01:28:05):
All right, my number one game is Civilization three.

Speaker 2 (01:28:11):
Thank god? Oh three? Oh okay.

Speaker 4 (01:28:14):
Three. Three was the first of the series that I played,
So that's kind of why it's on this list the
gaming memories of from three. Basically it's solidified myself as
like playing the Civilization series to the present day, Like
even like last month I was, I was playing SIB six,

(01:28:35):
even though I don't really like SIVI six, but that's
a different story. SIV three. I don't even know what
it to say about SIV three. They had it was
a grid system. This the series has just changed so much.
But man, SIV three. I think about it now, and

(01:28:55):
you know, it's really not that great of a game.
I would hate to say it. But because you had
the pollution that spread, you had the spider web of
roads and railroads, you're constantly like you could your improvements
on the map were like really limited to like mines
and farms. That's like all you which you could do.

(01:29:18):
A lot of the units were pretty good. I don't
feel like I remember combat being very I don't want
to say combat in the SIEV games aren't very in
depth anyway, but I do remember times where like if
you had a really low level unit, if you had
just enough of them, you could still beat like a
really modern unit. And they eventually kind of fixed that

(01:29:38):
in the other CIEV games. But for me, SIV three
was basically just the start of me loving this genre
of building cities, expanding, going through the research, just creating
your own world in your own story. And that's that's
what got me hooked. And there were times like I

(01:29:59):
play this game, you know, on the computer. Then I
would go to school and I would get like the
graph grid paper and I would just start drawing maps.
This is probably where I started like drawing maps is
just for fun as a kid, and sometimes I do
that now. But I would try to play SIEV on paper,

(01:30:20):
like I'd be like, oh, my unit's gonna go over here.
What did I find? And then I like draw a
little river, draw some mountains, and it was all just
created and I can done whatever the heck I wanted to.
I think of like all the authors and stuff who
do world building and create maps and create like these
vivid stories that are they try to make realistic. For me,
I was kind of the same way, just you know,

(01:30:41):
just as a kid doing it basically because of SIV three.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
I'm really glad that you brought this one up, because
I SIV did not make my list. It's outside. I
did have it as an honorable mention for me. It
was Civilization too, But yeah, I don't it's such an
iconic thing. I don't know how I didn't play more
of this, but I don't have. It's really not a
nostalgia thing for me. It's just those are Those are
definitely good games, and I thinks as the thing which

(01:31:07):
eventually led you to play a lot of Civilization style games.
From that perspective, I could see that I probably I'm
glad at least that Civilization two was an honorable mention
for the same reason that definitely did leave me to
play a lot of other Civilization games, although for me
probably the first one. I mean, I played a lot
of Civilization two, but I probably really started even of
my time when it got to Civilization four, and I

(01:31:29):
for somehow, I mean, maybe this is testament to the
fact that Civilization two didn't really sink in with me.
I didn't even play Civilization three.

Speaker 4 (01:31:38):
Civilization four doesn't have like a lasting memory for me
as three did. And I think five is a better
game than six.

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
Five is the best.

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
Oh, completely agree until seven comes out.

Speaker 4 (01:31:52):
Well we'll see about that. I don't have high hopes
for seven at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
No, I think tissue is being sarcastic.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
So yeah, I like, for me, the CIV series was
definitely five and then three. I don't even remember what
the heck CIV four was about.

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
So again, thank you for bringing it up, because I
think having four people on the single most strategy podcast
and not bringing up Civilization as a hostage game would
have felt a little bit weird to me. So I'm
glad I made it. Thank you. Thank you for not
feeling me.

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
Thank you, thank you, Finn, You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
Well, I'll go on to my number one. You all
guessed it. It's Silent Hunter three and a lot of this. Yeah,
I know, amazing, real shocker. I was introduced to this
game by my father around the time it released. I
have memories playing it with my dad, watching him play it,
playing it myself, having my brother play along with me

(01:32:46):
as well. I don't know, I have I still remember
the first aircraft carrier I sank in that game, and
from a minus, all the revolutionary aspects like the dynamic
campaign and the three D into your ear animated crew.
Apart from all of that, the game also like is
incredibly modible, which allowed it to age really well, and

(01:33:10):
it has a very natural difficulty curve that you would
expect out of a traditional video game. The game starts
off relatively easy, that difficulty ramps up significantly as the
game goes on, which I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:33:23):
It's it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:33:24):
Good gameplay, good game design, I don't know, that's it.
Lots of variety, all sorts of equipment you can use.
It is like the most comprehensive submarine sim I think released.

Speaker 3 (01:33:36):
I could totally put that on my list too. I
have vivid So I played Silent Hunter two, and I
think because that was two D right at least the
interior stuff, well, wasn't it all interior? Anyway? I played
two that played fine. I had a laptop with an
integrated graphics card, which I don't think Silent Hunter three
was supposed to allow you to play. But I have

(01:33:57):
vivid memories in college of playing that game on a laptop.
I could not play it. I was playing it at
like seven and eight frames per second, like it was
a chore to play. And I still would play it
because it just was. It was so unique and it
was such it was just, you know, I'd never really
experienced sort of a game like that. Maybe Falcon was
probably the closest thing to that for me, but I

(01:34:20):
remember just absolutely loving that game.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
Yeah, it's it's easily my I know, it's like we're
doing most nostagic game, but it is my favorite game
of all time, hands down.

Speaker 3 (01:34:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
And then obviously kickstarted an interest in history that was
still going strong. I do also quickly want to mention
that my last three games all had sequels or not
that were all horrible, a like three year time frame.
Ile two release Cliffs of Dover, which was a bomb.

Speaker 3 (01:34:54):
It was not good.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
Oh you're skipping for Silent hundred five actually came out
before clifted over. Song Hunter five not good. Sound Hunter
four is good.

Speaker 3 (01:35:03):
I did.

Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
I got sound hundred four for my birthday. I still
remember that, and then Rome to Total War, another horrible launch.
It's just like, in the span of three games, my
top three or three years, for three or four years,
my top three nostalgic games had just horrible releases. That's
where the cynicism started.

Speaker 4 (01:35:22):
Where did it all go?

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
So that's yeah, that's where I'm going to leave it.
That's I was thinking. I was looking at that list
and I was like, huh, that's kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
There's another reason why I sat on A three is
very importantly, at least on somebody's should have been yours
or mine, And that's because that's the way that we'll
pack and I know each other.

Speaker 3 (01:35:41):
I was gonna mention that too. Yeah, ah good, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
I was I was thinking that, Yeah, we know each
other because of sound Hunter. So it's all started because
of sound Hunter.

Speaker 4 (01:35:50):
And I only know wolf Pack, and I know wolf
Pack through Tortuga who knows him through silence.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:57):
And THG just tagged along once he realized I had
a channel whoa whoa.

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
Whoa uh huh uh.

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
Huh was before then I was a nobody? Yeah, I
said it. I said it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:09):
I'm pretty sure our first interaction was a quiplash where
I've got that got that look that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
The funny thing is when this is this is true nostalgia.
When I first contacted a wolf pack three four five,
I think my channel size was like five times larger
than his. Oh have the roles have switched?

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
It is interesting? Yeah, and those like old I can't
believe it. Commented on those videos, those old song Hunter
videos I did there.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
I hope you did? You take them down? Did you say?

Speaker 1 (01:36:38):
They're like unlisted? So if you have the link you
can watch them. But if you can't, I mean you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
They're Oh man, they're gold. You can hear the like
fourteen year old version of you in them. It's it's
just awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
It was the mic. It was the mic. You know,
it made me, you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
Know, gangs to me. We're going to torpedo lunch?

Speaker 3 (01:37:01):
Uh brother? Yeah, that's anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
Moving on style three is one of the greatest games
of all.

Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
Yeah, i'd agree with that.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
Well, a lot of these games. I think I could
also say, like Falcon four point zero was pretty impactful too.
I think that people routinely talk about the campaign and that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
So all right, Uh, anyway, moving on, I would love
to hear how Tortuga and THHD met. I'm sure it
wasn't over such a phenomenal game, No, such a song
Hunter three. But what is your number one game that's
for Tortuga power?

Speaker 2 (01:37:32):
Well, it's a it's real gotcha, it's real gotcha journalism.
It's not one game, it's a trifecta, but it's basically
Blizzard games. When I think about my childhood, I I'm
an I'll specific Warcraft. I'm guessing yeah, I'm gonna specifically
say Warcraft two. Warcraft one is the first video game
I ever owned. It's the first one I ever played.

(01:37:54):
Like well, that wasn't like on my own. I played
things that my father had installed them. I didn't even
know how to install video game or whatever. So Warcraft
one was the first one that initiated on my own.
And Warcraft who I spent a ton of time on.
That's the one I would just say, if I had
to identify one, that would be my nostalgia game. But
it's really Blizzard games that just my memories as a

(01:38:15):
childhood are just so so connected with the different Blizzard teles.
I mean, it's almost like you could go from one
to the other and like try to figure out what
else you were doing at the time. But I remember
Diablo and like other friends were playing that who didn't
play Warcraft because because the action element was more interesting
for them, and how it terrified me. That was like

(01:38:37):
a game I was really scared to play. It was
Diablo and Diabo two and I don't know all these
one And then you were talking about Eve Online earlier
a World of Warcraft. That's like a whole period of
my life.

Speaker 3 (01:38:49):
Oh my gosh, same. It was hard.

Speaker 1 (01:38:52):
That's an honorable mess mentioned for me. It was hard
not to put that on.

Speaker 2 (01:38:56):
So that's I mean, there was a whole like not
a good Solia like things where I was friends with
people in college and they also started playing World of Warcraft.
We were supposed to have a guild together and on
like day one or day two, it all fell apart.
It was like this big drama between a bunch of
people who didn't play video games together at all except

(01:39:16):
for this one game. It's very weird stuff. It's you know, comical.
But the story for another time, perhaps a short story,
is though that I have a lot of nostalgia for
a lot of Blizzard titles, and unfortunately I think that
Blizzard nowadays is totally crap. I think that World Warcraft
was my first exposure to maybe what Blizzard might become later.

(01:39:36):
I remember I had a terrible experience with them because
it was a subscription based thing where I stopped and
I thought I canceled. Look at I was an idiot
as a young teenager or whatever. Maybe I was an
old teenager at that point, but it was just a teenager.
I probably messed up something on this on the canceled subscription,
but I didn't realize they were billing me for like
a year. I called that. I was like, you guys

(01:39:59):
are still billing and they're they're like, well, we can't
do anything about that now. I'm like, yeah, but can't
you just refund it? Like really, can you actually not
do something about it or just you won't do something
about it anyway, And they were saying that there's no
way of telling if I actually did that and then
I anyway, Okay, long story short, I had someat experience

(01:40:19):
with a Blizzard over World of Warcraft. Might have been
my own stupidity, but definitely impactful and just playing. I
remember playing World of Warcraft. That's like the one more
turn thing, playing that until like seven am. I would
play it in college until the sun was up, and
I very Maybe the only other game that I've been
so sucked in like that for which didn't make my

(01:40:41):
list would be Oblivion. Yeah, so the Elder Scrolls series. Oblivion,
that was another one.

Speaker 1 (01:40:47):
It's my World of Warcraft. I'd play that. My parents
would not let me play video games for a long time,
but I'd always conveniently hop into a war zone right
when they were about to kick me off, and I
was like, I can't leave.

Speaker 2 (01:41:04):
There's no pause.

Speaker 3 (01:41:05):
I can't leave these piels. So I got another, you know,
twenty minutes. Yeah, it's the.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
Man.

Speaker 4 (01:41:13):
One thing I've learned is how much time Tortuga spent
in college playing video games instead of actually going to college.

Speaker 3 (01:41:20):
What else is college for?

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
I gotta say, Man, if I could, like, if there's
any period of my life I could go back and redo,
it would be probably some point. I mean, look at
I made it where I am today, I'm I'm already
sitting on this life, right, I'm already here, so I
might as well extract what benefit I can, which in
this case is talking about games I played on a podcast.
Not a huge benefit. I won't say that's life changing.

(01:41:43):
But since I'm already here, but if I could go
back and do it all over again, I probably would
spend like maybe ninety percent less time playing video games
and probably would still play tons of them. So yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
Then you wouldn't be here talking about all the games
you played. Then we wouldn't know you, and.

Speaker 4 (01:42:00):
You wouldn't have been known as the cut.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
That cut that was your channel logo, that guy from Futurama.
When we first met, it was all right, moving on?

Speaker 3 (01:42:10):
Is that it?

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
No, there's no, there's no moving on.

Speaker 4 (01:42:13):
There's We're at the end.

Speaker 3 (01:42:14):
That's it. We're done. I'm sorry, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:42:17):
Just but look, before we wrap, I just want to
analyze one thing. I think we already mentioned it. A
lot of these games are from two thousand and four,
and a lot, I mean even two thousand five some
of them five some of.

Speaker 4 (01:42:32):
Them two thousand and three, two thousand and one.

Speaker 2 (01:42:35):
That was like the heyday. I mean, just looking at
a nostalgia factor, you.

Speaker 4 (01:42:39):
Could probably talk to some other gamers out there in
the world and if their their childhood was, you know,
ten years ago, then their nostalgia games are going to
be from like twenty ten, twenty fifteen or whatever right now.

Speaker 2 (01:42:53):
No, No, that's but that's the thing, isn't it that
you and Finish and Wolfpack are. I know it's surprising,
but they are as wise as TSG and myself, who
are We're probably ten years older than.

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
You guys, right, I think so, I don't thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
Six years okay, but we're different eras slightly at least,
and we're still picking games from two thousand and four.
So I don't know. I think this is the podcast
where I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:43:17):
Think any of my games were actually in two thousand.
I think they bracket it Panzer Generals two thousand or
ninety four, Total War, Barbarian Invasion two thousand and five.
For Barbarian Invasion.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
Rome, total War was two thousand and four.

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
Wolf Oh, it was two thousand and four. Okay, cool,
there we go.

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
Yeah, there you go. You're in. You're in the cool club.

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
Gettysburg ninety eight makes me seem way older than you guys,
but I'm not. I'm like Tortuka's age.

Speaker 4 (01:43:42):
You just started a gaming younger.

Speaker 3 (01:43:43):
Maybe that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:43:44):
You earn the title as the historical gamer.

Speaker 1 (01:43:46):
He is the historic He has gamer in the title.

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
He is the gamer. I was born a gamer. I
was I was molded by it.

Speaker 4 (01:43:55):
Oh yeah, he came out, he can't. He was born
on day one he saw he had Gary Griggsby game
in his hand.

Speaker 3 (01:44:05):
Amazing. I do remember seeing in some magazines he had
games that were like I think Warren Russia was like
in a magazine and then Warre in the West. I
saw in a magazine once. It was a different world
back then.

Speaker 2 (01:44:15):
Yeah magazine, okay, wow, But another Sossagia moment. PC gamer,
Oh yeah, magazines and computer gaming world was that what
the other one was? There was like two big ones,
and I think I had both for a short amount
of time. But PC gamer would was the one that
would send you the demo discs if you paid the
like one dollar extra per year.

Speaker 3 (01:44:33):
I had the PlayStation demo discs. You remember that, like
you go into the grocery store and they PlayStation magazine
and you could get like demos for all the different
like upcoming titles on PlayStation. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:44:43):
I will say that's one thing that I have been
kind of liking that demos are making a comeback, and
I kind of enjoy that. I mean, like the Steam
Next Vest sort of stuff. You get like a small
vertical slice of a game and you can try it out,
and like a lot of indie devs are kind of
doing that, and that's I don't know, it's kind of
nice to see.

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):
I feel like it's becoming a table stake, so like
it's the only way to get noticed. Like being getting
wish lists is so important now, so you've got to
use a demo to try and get folks to wish list.
It amazes me that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:11):
I guess it makes sense that Boulder Skate had a demo,
but it's surprising that a story driven game did they
just cut it off.

Speaker 2 (01:45:18):
Like like I said, you couldn't go into the areas
to advance the plot. You just were restricted. But it
was definitely compelling, I mean it was it was very
well done, I mean, a very good demo. Yeah, I
remember the moment I bought the full game, and then
like the first time I moved beyond that area, it
was like it was like ecstasy.

Speaker 3 (01:45:36):
Yeah, I can imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:45:38):
It was crazy to like be like, oh my god,
I can actually move beyond the demo. So I don't know,
the whole experience was great.

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
That's another awesome thing about Bouldersgate. I think it's pretty
novel is transferring characters from one game to another. Oh yeah,
you could play boulders Gate one and just transfer your
character to two. I mean, that's how many games did
that before. I'm sure someone's gonna type it in the
comments for me, but yeah, I'm actually interested in like

(01:46:05):
that seems novel.

Speaker 2 (01:46:06):
I don't know if you ever tried this, but I
was obsessed with waters Kate the original. You could actually
play through the whole game with nothing but your own characters.

Speaker 3 (01:46:14):
Oh really?

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
In multiplayer you could create a party of all six
of your characters. Oh, I see, and just go through
the game. Yes, so you like in single player?

Speaker 3 (01:46:27):
Never done that. I thought you meant just playing it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:29):
And single layer. You know, you're you can only play
as one, you can only create one character in that universe.
But when you go multiplayer. You can have all six
people in your party as people you created, which is
like broken.

Speaker 1 (01:46:40):
Did you ever play Iceland Deale? I did not know,
because Iceland Dell you constructed your whole party.

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
Okay, yeah, very similar to that then, probably inspired by
multiplayer shenanigans. People did like me in Walter's Kate. Yeah,
well this was a great episode.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
Huh Yeah, this is a long one. Thanks for thanks
for listening.

Speaker 3 (01:46:56):
Thanks for coming out, guys. I hope you guys had
a good time.

Speaker 1 (01:46:59):
Catch maybe some of us next time. It depends on
who THD brings on this particular program.

Speaker 3 (01:47:05):
Why are you blaming me? Tortuga is the one who
organized the entire last episode.

Speaker 2 (01:47:10):
I can't believe you did that, Tashi.

Speaker 1 (01:47:12):
When you have the historical gamer, you know that aura
of authority, you get the blame.

Speaker 3 (01:47:18):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:47:18):
Leadership means taking the blame.

Speaker 3 (01:47:20):
Says the guy with the silver play button. It's a
silver play button in the room with us.

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
Well, as a matter of fact, it is in the
room with me.

Speaker 4 (01:47:28):
It's right behind him, it's right there on the wall.

Speaker 2 (01:48:14):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:48:15):
Anybody who has a camera, we're gonna just all be
on camera from me.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
No can we do it like Jocko style. Make it
black and white. It look kind of cool, kind of serious.

Speaker 3 (01:48:23):
Wear a suit and maybe get a top hat. Oh,
we should do that. That'd be fun.

Speaker 4 (01:48:27):
Top hat.

Speaker 2 (01:48:28):
Wait one more thing before we close out the episode, though,
We just wanted to go around and just ask what
everyone's playing. They think.

Speaker 3 (01:48:33):
I thought you had to go Tortuga.

Speaker 2 (01:48:35):
I'm so late, but Space.

Speaker 3 (01:48:38):
Yeah, he's accepted his fate.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
Yeah, this is it. If I don't, I don't come
on another you may not hear from me again. Hey,
but no, I I okay, So this doesn't have to
be on the podcast, but I did have some like
honorable mentions I wanted to rattle off to at least
do you guys ever play this game when War?

Speaker 3 (01:48:54):
When War?

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
Oh my god, this is definitely nostalgia for me. But anyway,
when More was like a It was basically like a
primptive version of Access and Allies that you could play
on Windows three point one. Yes, Windows three point one.
Basically other games I played won't play with my dad.
So fine, fine, we don't have to talk abou him now.

Speaker 4 (01:49:14):
A man with a good relationship with his father.

Speaker 3 (01:49:17):
I didn't play any games with my dad pretty much.
My my my gaming relationship with my dad was he
used to be really big into Doctor Mario, not Tetris. Well,
he played Tetris, but he was way more into Doctor
Mario and I and I had the nes in my
in my room, so I remember like I would be
falling asleep.

Speaker 2 (01:49:35):
He'd come in and.

Speaker 3 (01:49:38):
I have school the next day and he would be
like sitting on the foot. He would be sitting at
the foot of my bad playing Doctor Mario till like
one in the morning. That's actually amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:49:51):
That's pretty funny.

Speaker 3 (01:49:52):
So it's kind of a cool memory to have. But yeah,

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Single Malt Strategy: Top 5 Games - From Our Past | Episode 87

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Single Malt Strategy: Top 5 Games - From Our Past | Episode 87