The Skeptical Help Bar - YOUR Topics

Earlier today I asked what topics YOU guys would like to discuss, and you responded. We're going to touch on things like Confirmation Bias, Pareidolia, Apophenia, ghost hunters that run from the very thing they're 'hunting', Moral Ethics, how ghosts can be immaterial and still interact with physical objects, why aren't team 'getting rid of ghosts', and more (if I can get through all of this!). Grab a drink and join me!

Episode Transcript

(00:26):
What's up, people, Welcome back. It's another Friday night that I love
it. I am pumped. I'mactually in a good mood. It's been
a nice day, not too bad. So I'm pumped and ready to get
into this. You guys, Oh, I love you guys because you know
what I put out earlier today thatI was looking for topics, You guys

(00:48):
came through. And not only didyou come through with a whole bunch of
topics about holy shit, you mademe research. You made me learn some
stuff. I got schooled today.It was fun. It was fun.
It was a lot of fun.I enjoyed it, and I can't wait
to dig into some of this stuff. So first and foremost, I want
everybody. I would like everyone tosound off, let me know who's here,

(01:11):
what you're drinking, and I'll getinto the rules. What's up tom
yo, yo? What's up?Buddy? I love it. So the
rules for those of you, ifyou're a newcomer, if you're listening to
the podcast version of this for thefirst time, So I got rules basically
Number one. Number one is thisshow is open to paranormal related questions.

(01:34):
In return, I give you myown personal skeptical opinion doesn't mean it's the
great opinion. It doesn't mean it'slike an authoritative opinion. But it's my
opinion and I offer it freely,so free is good. Number two is
I don't know everything, honestly,I don't mean sometimes I wish I did,
but I sadly do not. Imight have to look stuff up while

(01:57):
we're doing the show. I'd haveto say I don't know and leave it
at that. But I have mytrusty note pad here, which is always
right in front of me with apen, so I can write notes down
and look it up later so Ican learn a little bit more. And
then rule number three is that thisis for polite conversation between people that have
different backgrounds, different beliefs, whathave you. We can discuss it.

(02:21):
You guys can talk about stuff inthe chat room, you can ask questions.
The topics that we have tonight I'llgo into. But basically the bottom
line is, don't be a dick. This is just for everyone to get
along and have a conversation. Sowith that, let me say Hi,
Lisa, Hi, Chuck Stacy.I said Chuck, Chuck. I tried

(02:42):
to say chuck and it came outweird. Hey, Chuck my number one
soccer I love that it's up,which I don't even know what that means.
Hey, Stacy, Tom's here,Tracy, what's up? How you
doing? Cold? Beer in hand? Good? Tom's got a molten ice
awesome. Bob's here, Hey Bob, not currently drinking, but he's eating

(03:07):
Oreo ice cream with a scoop ofchocolate. All right, you know,
little Kalua. That might be good, That might be really good. Stacy's
got a beer. John Michael's herecold? What is that laffey blonde ale
in my hand? Nice and likea snob that I am? Whatever?

(03:30):
Alright? Oh and WLFE dash dBRadio Network is in the house. That's
awesome. Good to see you.All right? So oh jd JD's in
the house too. Where'd it go? Evening? All good? I like
to try to get everybody. Darrenand Cat awesome sweet. All right.

(03:51):
So let me get into this.So I didn't have that. I actually
had a guest scheduled earlier in theweek, but unfortunately there was a scheduling
conflict. We're gonna have that gueston next week, which is great because
it's really gonna be special. I'lltalk about it at the end of the
show, but to fill in thegap, I asked you guys to offer
some some topics that we can talkabout. And as I said in the

(04:14):
beginning, you guys came through.So I'm actually gonna go through some of
the topics that will come up thatcame up in the comments. I can't
post on one screen because they're notactually they're different comments, so they're over
on this screen, but I can't, but I'll read them off to you
so and then we'll talk about itand you guys can offer input, and
you guys know how it goes.So the first one is, so we

(04:36):
have, let me read it offhere Lisa Lisa ferguson Lisa in the House.
I think I said Lisa earlier.Lisa's in the house. She posted
first, saying that she's always fascinatedwith I'm gonna screw this up. A
poffeni. Oh my god, Iknew I was gonna mess that word up.
A pafenia, A pafenia, andparadolio. So I'm going to read

(05:00):
off the the definitions. I'm totallycheating here because I don't have I'm not
like I don't have all this uh, committed to memory. But of papinia,
if I'm saying that right, isan error in perception. It's the
tendency to interpret random patterns as meaningful. Parodolio is the visual representation of that.
So the paradolio version is more likewhen you see faces and clouds or

(05:26):
um, you know, Jesus andtoast because that's what you know, why
not, that's that's where he wherehe comes up the toast. Um.
So these are actually like really commonthings to see patterns, um, because
of pafinia. I don't know ifI'm saying that right, Um, that
that's basically seeing patterns where there reallyisn't anything. It's usually just random stuff.

(05:48):
Like I guess, for example,it would be if somebody said,
oh, you know what, twocelebrities died, you know there's going to
be a third because that's a pattern, and that's that's not actually had how
it happens, um, But it'sjust it's morked of what is that superstition?
But this is the kind of patternpeople look for. You know that

(06:10):
celebrities die in threes, everything happensin threes and so on, so um.
But this kind of stuff happens inghost hunting, UH and and all
the other stuff bigfoot hunting and UFOs. This happens a lot where we either
perceive patterns like in bigfoot bigfoot hunting. The few outings that I've gone on

(06:32):
with fellow bigfoot hunters is that theyhave this idea that if a if a
tree, like a small tree witha like a trunk that's about, you
know, three four inches wide,if it's pushed over at any kind of
height like maybe ten feet up,if it the rest of it fell over
and it's kind of hanging there,um, kind of like a tea position,

(06:56):
not a tea position, like aslanting position, that's usually mean the
big foot's around and that that it'smarking its territory. And that's that's a
pattern that you see throughout the woods. Um. It doesn't have anything to
do with bigfoot. Um, itactually has to do it Usually like um,
a tree struck by lightning, it'srotted from the inside, it's dying,

(07:17):
so it fell over, the windblew it over, It blew over
in a storm and it landed thatway. I remember getting into kind of
a discussion a little heat at discussionwith somebody that was an avid bigfoot hunter
and swore that this this kind oftree thing where it's like a tree's here
and there's another tree leaning against itlike this, that that was absolute proof

(07:43):
that Bigfoot was around um, thathe was in this territory, he was
in that area. And I mentioned, I was like, you can you
can do that easily. I mean, if the trees rott it, you
can lift it up and put itthere. You know, if you're making
like a shelter, if someone's campingin the woods and they want to make
a shelter, that's one way todo it. And he's his argument was
there was no way if you havea trunk that's like three or four inches

(08:05):
thick and it's it's like fifteen feetlong, there's no way a human could
pick it up. And uh,we actually walked into the woods. We
found one that measured out twenty fivefeet and it was a good, good
thickness U and I walked over andjust lifted it up like this no problem
because it was brought it inside andit just had broken away from its base

(08:30):
and that was it. So thatkind of thing, seeing these patterns where
there really aren't patterns I mean thatthat's unfortunately, that's a bias. It's
it's a it's a bias that wehave a natural bias that we look for
patterns. Were pattern seekers. That'swhat we do, um, well part
of what we do. And thenthe paradolio is just it's very very easy

(08:52):
to be fooled. Um oh Tomwith the comments getting legs lift thick ones.
Yeah that's right. Um, youtotally lost my train of thought there,
paralulio. So yeah, it's reallyeasy. Um. With pictures,
I see this a lot with withphotographs and video because that's the visual medium

(09:16):
that we use. Uh that whenespecially when it's dark out, when it's
dark and you get a lot ofthat noise, that digital noise or the
grain and film, Um, itdistorts the colors and you can see shapes,
you can see faces. You caneasily see faces. One of the
things I do, um, butI used to do. It used to
be a game when you walked intolike a like a restroom at a nice

(09:37):
fancy hotel and it had that marblekind of flooring or walls. I used
to look for patterns, look forfaces, you know, especially demon faces,
because that's I mean with the swirlykind of like lines that go up
and criss cross. It's really easyto find, like an evil looking horror
movie face, really easy. Um, it's there, but it's not actually

(09:58):
a face. It's just what weperceive. So these are definitely things that
that are a problem. And Iunderstand why Lisa is fascinated with it because
it's it's an issue that we alldeal with. Um and uh, it's
it's hard to overcome. It's hardto overcome those patterns. And you know,

(10:18):
once you see something that looks likea face, you can't unsee it.
You just see it all the time. But I'm used to. I
usually get pictures and people will ask, oh, do you see the face,
and I'm like, where where?And that's a mistake on my part
because then the next email or nextmessage is the picture with the red circle
of death around the face, andthen yeah, damn, I see it.

(10:41):
So uh oh Stacy, yes,God, I hate smiley Smiley's in
the words. See them all thetime, all the time, and it's
it's so easy to pick out theclassic version of the smiley face, the
two dots for eyes, and thensome kind of like smile or even just

(11:01):
some kind of line, any kindof curved line, or even a couple
of dots. It's really really easyto see the smiley face. Let me
see, I'm trying. I gottaput my glasses on because I can't see
anything. I'm trying to be alla cool and be like, yo,
I don't need glasses, but Ido because I'm old. Josh, Hey,

(11:22):
hey, Josh, how are youdoing? He says. I'm under
the impression that those who see thosethings often are actually quite imaginative. I
don't think it takes a lot.I mean, I would definitely admit that
I have a vivid imagination. Ireally do. I mean, I can
imagine pretty much anything, and I'dlove to paint. I love to draw,

(11:43):
I love to create things. SoI'm constantly seeing the stuff in my
head and making it a reality.I mean, cosplay, holy shit,
do cosplay. You gotta have agood imagination. You have to. But
it really doesn't take much to seetwo eyes and a mouth. I mean,
seriously, when you only have todo something like like this, everyone

(12:11):
sees a smiley face. It's rightthere. But honestly, it's just two
dots and a curve line. Soit doesn't take much imagination to pick out
a face. So I don't know, I don't I don't know. I
don't have any stats to back thatup, but that would be just my
impression. But hey, thanks forcoming by, Josh. I appreciate it.

(12:33):
Nice to see. I love theprofile picture, dude, awesome,
very cool. I love it.Uh. John Michael says that's my favorite
quote. I know orbs are dust, but this one has a face,
therefore it must be a dead person. Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness.
I love how the conversation turned toorbs. Damn it, I hate

(12:56):
fucking dust. Hm. Hey,Lisa, thank you, thank you for
that that comment slash topic. Thatwas awesome. But yeah, you're right,
it's human nature to see God patternsaround us. I mean, that's
basic human nature. So let's say, oh, John has a question here,
how come we never see ghost facesfrom the side like a profile,

(13:18):
or how come we don't see theback of a ghost head. That's the
rest of the orbs that don't havethe two dots for eyes. You just
see their hair. It's ghost hairor their bald Maybe it's almost this if
our brains aren't wired to create faceslooking straight ahead. I think that's what
we're looking for. We're just wiredto see faces straight on profile pictures a

(13:41):
little bit harder. But yeah,now you're dealing with a round object.
So all right, cool, thatwas a cool topic. Thank you very
much. I'm gonna move on tothe next one that I have. Let's
see, so this came this nexttopic. It's kind of long, so
I apologize for this. I'm goingto read it off because it's from David

(14:03):
Pike, and I actually talked toDavid today on the phone. Let me
take this comment off because he wasgoing on I'll read this first and I'll
explain a little bit more. So. He says, I'm actually going on
a private investigation tonight at automotive repairshop that was built around nineteen hundred.
The two new owners of the automotiveshop both say that they have seen a

(14:24):
male and female ghost slash apparition inthe shop. After they've saw the apparition
or apparitions, a few weeks later, they were looking at old photos of
their shop and they recognize the ghostsas being the shop owners back in the
nineteen twenties. Pretty cool. Theyhave pictures from the nineteen twenties. It's

(14:45):
cool. They say that they hearfootsteps on the second floor, which consists
of just old wooden floors and oldstorage shells. Nobody ever goes up there,
but yet they claim to hear footsteps. They say they also hear voices
that they claim to be the soundthey claimed to sound like an old man
and a woman. One owner sayshe refuses to go in part of the

(15:05):
shop because it gives him the creeps. There's a lot of road traffic in
front of the shop, so thatcan explain the noises, sounds, etc.
But the footsteps in the attic,the apparitions of the old man and
a woman who previously slow in theshop, that's another story. So I
talked to him today. I actuallyreached out to and I called him on

(15:26):
the phone to get more information.And some of the stuff that I wanted
to explain I couldn't explain just intext because there was way too much to
talk about. But I'm gonna justtouch on a few things here. The
apparitions. We actually talked about it, and we found out a little bit
more information that the apparition of theman was seen for about four to five

(15:50):
seconds and with that kind of ofeyewitness testimony. It's very hard to go
off of that because if you don'thave a stopwatch going, then how do
you know it's four to five seconds. You don't seeing something that's bizarre that
makes you like stop and like freezebecause it's something weird. It kind of

(16:14):
tends to distort time, you know, Sometimes it feels a lot longer than
it really was. Sometimes it's alot shorter than it really was. You
don't know. And the apparition actuallyappeared against the wall next to an air
compressor. But four to five seconds, that's not a lot of time.
First you have to realize what you'relooking at. And by the time you

(16:37):
realize, I mean honestly, bythe time you realize if you're looking at
something, then it's usually gone.And that's what our conversation about this actually
led to because it was there,I guess, for the four to five
seconds, and then it disappeared likesuddenly it was gone. It didn't fade
away, it wasn't transparent, itwasn't there's a lot of details that I

(16:59):
probably don't know, um, butit's it's it was there and then gone,
And in my experience, that usuallyhappens when you see some kind of
optical illusion, you're not sure whatyou're looking at, and once you realize
what you are looking at, onceyou once it you get through that little
fog and realize what's going on,the illusion disappears and you're seeing just what

(17:22):
is actually there. And I thinkthat's probably what happened. Um and again,
like to to continue on with thatwith this four to five second eyewitness
viewing. It was a few weekslater, and that's what the guy said.
UM. A few weeks later,they were looking at old photos,

(17:45):
um to and and he identified it. He positively identified the ghost as being
the former owner. I find thatreally really to be a stretch, really
really to be I find to bea big stretch in identification because it's it's

(18:06):
if you only saw something for fourto five seconds and it's weeks later,
weeks later, Like I don't knowhow we how long, Like if two
weeks or six weeks, I don'tknow about that, But if we're talking
weeks, we're gonna go with atleast two weeks at the very minimum.
And say that from the four tofive second viewing, he was able to
positive positively I d someone from photographsfrom the nineteen twenties. I highly doubt

(18:33):
that, I really do. Um. I think it's more that I would
venture to say, And this isjust based on my um my ideas.
What I'm thinking through this is thathe probably saw something it freaked him out
a little bit. Maybe he talkedto some other people and if you have

(18:53):
some some others that are that areinto this or like believing ghosts and stuff,
someone he might have said something like, oh, you know, it's
probably the former owner. It's probablythe last guy. He's probably still here,
you know, and those kind ofsnowball you know, the snowball effect,
The little snowball starts at the top, starts rolling down the hill,
gets bigger and bigger until it slamsinto the poor kid that's at the bottom

(19:15):
of the hill and we all laugh. But that's what I'm kind of thinking
here. And unfortunately, like hegot it into his head that it's like
it's it's probably the former owner.He saw the pictures, which I don't
know how clear the pictures are becauseI haven't seen them and I'm hoping to
see them later, but immediately identifiedit and said, Okay, yeah,

(19:38):
that's probably him. And that probablyor maybe became yes, it's him,
and that was it. A fewof the other comments were that, well
the lady, they saw a ladyapparition, but that was like somebody behind
a door or something, and Iwasn't really clear on that. There has
to be more details. Let mesee before I keep going. There's a

(20:02):
couple questions here, So Bob says, Kenny, is this why eyewitness accounts
are the only part of the storyin criminal cases? You cannot rely on
what you see for just a shortamount of time. I'm not an expert.
I want to make sure that's clear. I'm not an expert on this

(20:22):
stuff. Oh, he says,this is why. So yes, I
agree, this is why, becausefrom the stuff that I've read about memory,
and especially eyewitness accounts in in likereally excited situations, like if there's
a crime going on, or atragedy going on, or some kind of
event or something like this. Imean, if you think you're alone and

(20:45):
you suddenly see what you think asa ghost, that's a big deal.
I mean that that could be atraumatic event for somebody. So if we
don't have all the information from whatI've read, yes, we fill in
the gaps. We start filling inthe blank spots. So if he only
had forty four to five seconds,you don't get a full description. There's

(21:07):
there's just no way you're gonna geta full description. So more retellings are
going to fill in some of thosedetails. It's going to evolve and and
be probably unintentionally embellished the more timeshe talks about it. And and that's
just how it goes. Um.It's not an intentional lying or anything like
that. It's just it's the natureof the beast. So let's say,

(21:33):
oh, Stacy said talking about inmy day, I just amused. I'm
just amused by sounding like an oldperson. Yeah, well we all are.
We all are. Let me say, uh, let's say, oh,
um, Jim, hey Jim,how are you doing influencing thing?
I don't. I think I gotin the like A second part of that

(21:55):
um comment, confirmation bias. He'ssees a ghost than a picture of an
owner, Viola, it's that's him, that's from Lisa. Yes, I
mean that's we're gonna get into confirmationby us a little bit because I don't
know somebody put put that up too. But yes, confirmation bias comes in
where it's basically yeah, you seesomething, and it's it's more like,

(22:18):
okay, well you know what thislooks like it so, yeah, this
is probably him, instead of insteadof saying maybe it's not, it's yeah,
I think it's him. Um,old guy, Yeah, that's that's
confirmed. Um, but it's notconfirmed. That's the problem. Uh So,

(22:38):
John says, not just part ofa story, the least reliable part
of the story of talking about eyewitnesstestimony. I think objective evidence trump's subjective
evidence every time in court, asit does in science. Agreed, Agreed,
Um. That's a big deal betweenobjective and subjective evidence. Um.
Subjective evidence is more the anecdotes.Objective evidence is when you have like DNA

(23:03):
evidence and it's it's hard, hardevidence, not you know, somebody's story.
So this is really good, incredibletopic. Thanks, Chuck. I
mean that's this is all you guysout there. I mean, all these
topics are coming from you guys.So I really appreciate it. You did
it. Awesome, Awesome, let'ssee. Jim says, you can truly

(23:26):
mind fuck yourself big time if youare alone in the dark. I totally
agree with that too, because youcan do something, especially if you think
it's haunted, if it has areputation for being haunted, and you're in
there in a dark and alone,yeah you can. I agree, you
totally mind fun yourself because you starthearing other things, because I mean,

(23:47):
our site is probably I would argue, our most relied upon sense. You
know, we see everything. We'revisual creatures. And when you start taking
that away because it's dark, youstart listing more, you start trying.
You noticed more of the temperature aroundyou because you're feeling more because you can't
seem and this kind of stuff.I mean, if you start hearing noises,

(24:11):
you'll start freaking out, like,whole shit, what was that?
Now? I hear something all theway down the hall where probably during the
day you wouldn't even pay attention toit. So being in the dark put
you on edge. While some ofus I don't care. I mean I've
walked around big warehouses in the dark, like I don't care. Like the

(24:32):
warehouse that I used to be inbefore I was kicked out, I would
walk around in the dark because Iknew where stuff was and it didn't bother
me. You know, it didn'tbother me that I couldn't see exactly where
I was going because I knew wherelike work tables were, I knew where
the stairs were, so I knewwhere all this stuff was, and I
didn't I wasn't afraid that something wasgoing to jump out at me. So

(24:56):
real, good topic. I lovethat. Let's am going through the comments
here, guys are talking. Thisis great. I love it all right,
So I'm gonna move on lastly,well not lastly, but a few
more things on David's investigation thing here. He said that on the second floor,

(25:18):
the owners claim to hear footsteps,that it's up there. Let's of
course it's up there. It's onthe second floor. The second floor consists
of just old wooden floors and anold storage shell or old storage shelves,
and nobody goes up there. Andwe talked about that a little bit.
Let me take this comment off thescreen here. So the first thing I

(25:42):
said was this is it's most likelyanimals. That's the It's usually the number
one calls of hearing footsteps up ina place where nobody goes excuse me,
um, it's probably some kind ofanimals. There's no cameras up there,
no one goes up there to check. So there's numb, there's no reason
to say it's a ghost because youdon't know what's going on. If you

(26:03):
don't have a cause, then youdon't know what the cause is. So
I actually advised them to set upa camera up there, even at a
trail cam, which goes against whatI usually say, because I hate trailcams
because they make awful, awful witnesseswhen used for this kind of stuff,
for ghost hunting and stuff, theymake awful witnesses because they take really bad

(26:26):
pictures, a lot of motion blurwith them, a lot of overexposure because
of the camera's not actually adjusted toanything except for the dark, so it
flashes those ir LEDs and it justit takes a basic setting. It's not
like set for something that's really closeup like this or really far back.

(26:48):
It's not adjusted for that. Soif an animal like walks in front of
the camera, like really close,you could get a washed out overexposed blob
which just looks like a big,big bright light. But I did say,
you know what, set them up, put them in the corner and

(27:11):
and just see if anything triggers it, you know, and even if we
get motion blurred blobs in there.We know at least there's probably animals walking
around and that's causing the footsteps.Um, also look for poop. I
mean, that's that's probably your yourbest indication that something's going on. If
you can find animal poop or droppings, you know, uh, it's really

(27:37):
really yeah, raccoons or rats,Yeah, definitely. I mean, you
should be able to find some droppingsthat would indicate that there's animals up there.
All right, So what else?The last thing that I really want
to dress address is that they theowners claim that they hear voices an old
man and a woman. There's nosamples that we could hear. There's nothing

(28:00):
that we can actually compare to.But when I was on the phone with
David, we actually went through.I brought up Google Maps and went into
the street view and he gave me. He gave me virtual directions and I
found the place. So I wasable to look around the neighborhood and see
what's there, which is great.That's a great tool because I could see

(28:22):
there was another shop next tour,like literally next door. They shared.
The parking lot on the other sideof the of the shop was a like
a skincare store, and then therewas a house, and then there was
a church. And David, intalking about this about hearing voices and easily
hearing voices from a distance, hesaid that he was standing right outside the

(28:48):
shop and that he could hear allthe people out of church talking. And
it's it's probably I would say,like fifty sixty yards away, but he
could hear it easily. He couldhear everyone talking. So that's a that's
a big deal. And that tellsyou, like, all right, if
there's a window cracked open, you'regonna hear voices. And the shop that
we're talking about, it's a verysmall it. It looks like a two

(29:12):
garage auto shop, that's what itlooks like. I don't want to put
pictures up because I don't know ifthey if they're okay with that, um,
because this was just us talking aboutit, and I was trying to
help him out, So I don'tknow if they wanted public, So I'm
not gonna put pictures up. Butum, all this stuff was had explanations.

(29:33):
It could be explained with some tests, you know, just to figure
out what's going on. Um.And that's what I gave him and hopefully
tonight he goes through. There's alot more that he's gonna try, so
we're gonna get an update. MaybeI can give you guys an update next
week. Um when he when hecomes there and gives me a gives him
my update. So I need todrink more. I haven't drank enough because

(29:57):
I'm still sober. So wow,let's see what Nick says. House settling
due to temperature fluctuations, animals inthe wall, wind outside causing the structure
to flex, and creek. Yes, those are all good, good things
too. Yes, oh the wind, that's a good one. I didn't
I didn't actually say anything about that, but yeah, that could definitely do

(30:22):
temperature to fluctuation, definitely absolutely.Stacy's like, drank, drank, drank,
that's right. Chin comments if it'sa large poop run, oh yeah,
I mean if we're talking like abig steaming pile, I would definitely
get out of there. Um,that would be bad. David Wards says,

(30:44):
I often hear voices down the hall, usually when the AC is on.
You know that. I mean that'sa c when that's running. That's
that's uh. I guess you canconsider that white noise. So it wouldn't
surprise me if you start like kindof hearing what you think is his voices
out of that and uh, becausethat's that's a that could fuck with your

(31:04):
head too. All Right, Sothat's good. I think we're good on
that one, And like I said, maybe next week we'll have an update.
I did ask him to keep meupdated on what they're doing. So
the next one I have is fromKathy de Grawl. What's up, Kathy?

(31:25):
She says, Oh my god.The actually she says, oh my
god. My biggest thing is whenpeople decide, quote, hey, I
let's ghost hunt, and then somethingactually happens and those same people go totally
nuts, as in, you wantedevidence, you got evidence, Why are
you flipping out? And I've seenthis a lot, and I'm sure you

(31:48):
guys have seen this. We've seenthis on some TV shows. I've seen
this in during ghost hunts when Iattend like the pay to play ones and
just sit in a corner and watchpeople like they come out for a ghost
hunt and they're like they freak out, And it's always made me laugh because
it's it's like it's like a deerhunter going out into the woods, sitting

(32:12):
up in a you know, ina tree waiting and then as soon as
the deer pops up, he goes, oh my god, fuck and then
runs away. Like that's how Isee this situation, and it's it's weird.
It's like, all right, yeah, you went out there to find
a ghost or or find some kindof evidence of this stuff, and it

(32:32):
once something happens, like a noiseor maybe a shadow passes along the wall,
some of the people freak out.Now granted, yes, I mean
it's it's some people are out forjust a thrill. It's thrill seekers.
You know. They treat the publicghost hunts like haunted attractions, So I

(32:52):
get that, But it's the it'sthe professional um ghost hunters that bug me
when they do this. Um Kathysays she never does what the voices tell
her. I always listen to thevoices. Sometimes we have arguments, and
that's that's funny, especially when we'rein a supermarket. Um. But yeah,

(33:15):
I mean the ghost owners that runaway when they think they found a
ghost. If you're if you're init for a haunted attraction type thing,
then you're just being silly. Butif not, if you're trying to be
serious and you run away, thenyou need another hobby. That's about it,
all right. Moving on, Karen, Karen, I've never said your

(33:37):
last name, Karen. I hopeI say it right. Basson Karen Bassan.
Her topic is moral ethics. That'sgood. I think we did a
show on that, the Three TorturedSouls, we did a show on ethics.
So if you look back a coupleepisodes on that site, you should

(33:59):
be able to find that. Uh, and we we did a whole episode
on like I don't know why Idid that whole whole episode on um ethics.
But Karen continues, I see investigatorsgoing to modern graveyards, accidents where
death occurred just a year previously,giving the full name of the deceased,

(34:20):
then investigating it. There is afine line which you shouldn't cross. How
about that, Kenny Biddle. Ilike how she called me out like by
name. That's funny. So Idid some thinking on this and it's it's
it's one of them things. Um, you know. I think I think
what she's focusing on is that thethe ghost hunters that do this kind of

(34:43):
stuff, um, are they're exploitingthe deaths of of recently deceased people Steve
off um, and they're they're givingout information, personal information about these people
and not giving a shit that theystill have friends and family that are are
still very much alive, and thatare not only very much alive, but

(35:05):
are dealing with the loss of theirfriend or family. And to do something
like this where you go to anaction and scene that's very recent and you're
trying to because we see this withcelebrities, but to go there and do
your ghost hunt kind of thing andthen post like something on YouTube where it's

(35:25):
like, oh, look, we'rehere, this person really died recently died,
and they give a full name andthey're like, oh, we're trying
to find this, and they startusing the fucking ghostbox piece of shit thing
um, getting all kinds of weirdinformation that that's not relative, not relevant
to anything that you're doing, butthey use it and say, oh,
how did you die? And holyshit, you know what if they what

(35:47):
if they ask these stupid questions andtheir ghostbox playing radio stations happened to come
across like I don't know, likelike a commercial for Captain Morgan or something
like that, you know, andthe ghost hunters like, oh, shit,
were you drinking? You know,we heard Captain Morgan or rum or
or vodka or something like that.And now they're saying, oh, this,

(36:10):
this guy was probably drinking and stuff. Because I know this is far
fetched and this is a hypothetical situation, so don't don't take it as like
I'm saying this is exactly it.But holy shit, that's a scenario that
could happen. And now you're figuremaybe weeks or months, hopefully never,
but a while after that, whatif the family comes across that and sees

(36:34):
it and sees like a video onYouTube of a bunch of ghost hunters.
I'm getting a little I'm getting alittle, Um what am I getting?
I'm getting very very emotional about thisbecause this kind of stuff pisses me off.
But what if the family comes acrossthis ghost hunting team with their video
and it's it's saying that their sonor their daughter was probably drinking, you

(36:58):
know, and caused the crash andthis, and that that would be a
horrible scenario. I mean, that'sone of the worst case scenarios. But
this is what we have to considerthat I I wouldn't condone that kind of
stuff. Um Like its cemeteries.Cemeteries, I think it's silly to investigate
cemeteries in the first place, becausenobody died there. I mean unless there

(37:21):
was actually an accident that happened ata cemetery, but otherwise the deceased that
are in the cemetery didn't die there, So I don't know why anybody would
want to UM. But for otherthings like well, let's see, let
me go back to the notes here, um monegret accidents, Yes, big
deal, you shouldn't. You shouldn'tbe doing it. And we see that

(37:44):
like I don't know about you,guys, um wherever you are, but
I know here, like if there'sa tragic car accident or something, um,
there's usually like a makeshift memorial thatthat develops evolves around around the area.
And I would I mean, ifthat was my family, if that
was somebody I cared about, I'dbe pissed the fuck off if I saw

(38:05):
a bunch of ghost hunters around that, because one, I know, I'm
pretty sure that most ghost hunters aren'tdoing any kind of signs. So I
mean, we've already covered that stuff. You guys know how I feel about
that shit. But to see themgoing around to my loved one and trying
to pretend that they're fucking beeping metersare giving them the sign and that their
ghosts. If I saw a ghostboxwhole shit, you better believe I'd run

(38:28):
that shit over like and back upon it. That would be done.
That would piss me off. SoI don't know how you guys feel about
that, you know, if youagree or disagree, or if you have
some other caveat to that, butthat that, oh my god, it
pisses me off. I am firedup, Thank you, Jim fired up?

(38:52):
Holy shit, I hate that shit. Man. Uh oh, let's
see. Kathy says, oh mygod, I remember that guy. It's
it's been said he is bogus.Im. I'm assuming you were talking about
huff. Uh. Yeah, Iwould totally totally agree with that. Let's
say. Um, John says,I think we have evidence that the ghostbox

(39:16):
is officially bogus. It should justbe called the humans who are laying lowbox.
Uh. It's it's uh that I'vediscussed that a bunch of times before,
and I'm happy to discuss it again. Not on this show, um,
maybe another show, but I'm happyto discuss it again and get into

(39:37):
it, but it's it's just awaste of time and sadly a waste of
money for people. UM just don'tknow that. I mean, that's a
psychological mind fuck that people are playingon themselves when they use the ghostbox.
And I'm not trying to say thatto be a dick. I'm saying that
because that's the that's the honest truth, and I'd be happy to explain it

(39:58):
later. Um, feel free tosend me a personal message, a private
message to my sites or wherever you'rewatching this, and I'll be happy to
respond to that. So Bob says, ethics and politics an excellent example of
a lucky war line. Oh mygoodness. Uh, let's see. Carol

(40:19):
Love says, I just wondered ifthere was a commonality to the explanations and
investigated cases. I'm not sure ifwhat, and you're probably talking to in
a different conversation, so I don'tknow what that refers to. Kathy says,
hey, hey, hey, leavethe vodka alone. Hey, I'm
all into it vodka. You knowwhat, my gibbickbox, which is over

(40:40):
here on the floor for now becauseI need another place for it. It's
got four bottles in it the originalbottles that came with it, and one
bottle actually had vodka in it.The other three have a rum because I
love rum better. So I don'tthis rum or this vodka because my wife
likes vodka. It's all good.Let's see. Oh, Jim says,

(41:05):
we get asked a lot to doinvestigations of recent deaths and we decline.
Good for you. I'm glad youdo that because that I mean that,
especially if you're asked. I don'tknow if it's family or friends that are
asking you, but that could leadinto some very very touchy areas. I
wouldn't want to get into that either. Kat Ward, Hey, Kat,

(41:27):
what's up? She says, misinterpretationand publicly representing representing at that as fact
can do a lot of cycle psychologicaldamage. Yes. Absolutely. Let's say
Dean Brown says, if you ranit over, would that make it a
ghost? Ghost box? That's agood one. I like that. I

(41:52):
like that. Let's say Lisa says, maybe people who've died fewer than one
hundred years a ghost shouldn't be offlimits. Yeah, I mean that's uh,
yeah, I don't know, Idon't know. I have to think
on that. I don't know.I mean, but my opinion really doesn't

(42:13):
mean anything. But I mean,I don't know. Yeah, at least
a hundred years at least, JohnMichael, love you, buddy, He
says, well, what the orbof a ghostbox? I love how you
guys jumped on that. That's great, all right, So I'm gonna move
on to the next one here.So the next one that was good from

(42:38):
Karen. Thank you, Karen.I appreciate that. Uh. Let's see
from Lisa. This is one's fromLisa. Oh. She talks about confirmation
bias. She says, confirmation biasis prevalent in so many ghost hunting escapades.
For example, did you hear that? And somebody else was like yeah,

(43:00):
So for those that don't know,let me read off the definition for
you, or a definition and againthis is not mine. Confirmation bias is
the tendency to search for or interpretinformation in a way that conforms or confirms
one's pre Oh my god, I'mmessing this up. I want to start

(43:20):
over. Confirmation bias is the tendencyto search for or interpret information in a
way that confirms one's preconceptions while ignoringinformation that does not support their preconceptions.
It is a natural. It isnatural to seek only data that supports our
ideas. People become emotionally attached toideas. We experience cognitive dissonance when faced

(43:43):
with evidence that suggests that our ideasare wrong. We see that a lot,
which is an unpleasant experience. Manyavoid the possibility of being wrong by
only searching for evidence that they arecorrect. This is this next one is
important because I do this all thetime. The phrase quote remembering the hits
and forgetting the misses unquote describes theessence of confirmation bias. Damn right,

(44:08):
it does, and I have anexample here. So basically, the example
for this is if you sit downwith a psychic and you're getting a reading
and they make ten predictions, orin most of my cases, they ask
you ten questions. If they maketen predictions and only two or maybe three

(44:31):
are close or correct, someone thatalready believes that psychics are genuine and really
can do everything that they can do, we'll walk away will often let me
let me make sure I say thisright. Will often walk away thinking that
they had a great reading and thatperson is truly psychic. And that is
an example of confirmation bias because youalready believe that psychics are real, and

(44:54):
then they can predict this kind ofstuff or see this stuff or talk to
your dead people. And if youwalk away with two hits, you're gonna
forget the eight misses. And that'sjust that's common across the board. I've
seen that so many times where whereI've had discussions with people about their psychic

(45:15):
experiences and like as in they satwith a psychic and had a reading,
and they tell me, oh,the psychic got this, the psychic got
that, boom boom boom, theygot all these hits. They knew so
much. And I keep asking,like, all right, so how many
questions did they ask you? Howmany times did they get it wrong?
How many times did they ask somequestions you aren't sure about it? And

(45:37):
those you actually see the people likesitting like they have to really think,
and it's hard because they automatically forgotit as soon as it was brushed aside.
Because usually if there's a miss,it gets brushed aside quickly as quickly
as possible, and then move onto the next question or prediction until you
get a hit, So the missesare are usually brushed out you don't remember

(46:00):
them because they're they're gone really quick, and you want to focus on the
good stuff. You want to focuson the positive, so you walk away
thinking it's great. That's confirmation biasum and it's it's it's really bad.
I mean it's we see it inghost hunting, we see it in Bigfoot
UFOs Um. Ghost hunting is onethat I'm more in with. So an

(46:25):
example that I see is when peoplesay, well, I can't wait to
go to this haunted place, youknow, and get all this evidence.
They don't. They haven't even beenthere yet. It's like if it's their
first time or they're going back,they're talking about it in the afternoon.
They're not going there until that night, and they're already convinced that they have

(46:45):
they're gonna get evidence, so they'rethey're there. It's like a pre confirmation
bias because they're already expecting it.They're they're like, oh, we're gonna
get it. There's no doubt there, there's no reason not to believe.
And then when they get there andif if no one's explaining stuff, if
no one is really investigating, becauseyou know, ghost on's are usually um,

(47:08):
well, in my experience. Theyoften people sit around a lot.
They don't actually investigate things. Theysit around, things happen, you know,
people freak out, and there's notmuch actual investigation. So if somebody
does explain something, and I've seenthis personally, so take it like that,
that's a personal experience. If Ido explain some of the things,

(47:30):
it's like, oh, this shadowis caused by this, or this knock
was caused by this over here,and we confirm that they'll forget when when
when I explained it, or iswhen somebody else explained it, and they
will focus on the hits, andthat again is a confirmation bias. So
I hope I explained that right.Again, I'm not a I'm not a

(47:54):
I'm not an expert on this stuff. This is just what I dealt with
over the years. And again,I familiarize myself on a lot of these
concepts every time they come up.But hey, Lisa, thank you very
much, she says, Kenny,your examples of remember the hits forget the
misses are right on for confirmation bias. Bob says, oh, going to

(48:15):
get in out of trouble here.But I see a lot of quote miracles
unquote as confirmation bias of a god. Or if someone gets better after prayers
that prayers work, that's confirmation biasand they hate mail starts in three two
one. You are dead on thoughconfirmation bias. Can it goes almost hand

(48:37):
in hand with coincidence, you know, if you yeah, if people,
if people send prayers, thoughts andprayers that are only thoughts and prayers and
somebody gets better, then that's ahit that that's qualifies as a hit and
people will remember that. But sadly, on the other side of the coin,

(48:59):
if people send their thoughts and prayersand that person doesn't get better,
they get worse, or sadly,if they pass away, that's a that's
a miss, and they're they're passingwill be remembered, but the idea that
the thoughts and prayers didn't work willbe forgotten. Um. And that definitely

(49:20):
falls right in with confirmation bias.Um. And I know where you're going
with the trouble here, because religionis a touchy subject for a lot of
people. But I mean, Idon't from my view because you know,
I'm Um. I guess you wouldcall me you would people would consider me
agnostic. Um. I don't reallycare what the fuck they consider me.

(49:42):
I really don't. I see,religion is supernatural paranormal stuff. I group
it all together. Um, it'sall because a lot of that. I
mean, come on, talking snakes, people walking on water, zombies,
it's all supernatural shit to me.So whoo, yeah, we're gonna get
in trouble. Thanks good one.Let's say Jim says, uh, same

(50:07):
with i TC. We're all listeningfor an answer, an answer to a
question we asked. Then we allhear a reply, but we all hear
it differently, and if it's notrecorded, it's basically gone. Um.
The other thing with that, goingback to these these EVPs and and and
um uh yeah, EVPs and ghostboxes and stuff. Um, you can

(50:30):
ask a question and not get ananswer to your question. If you get
an answer to something else, thenthe conversation changes to that new answer,
and and that just blows the wholevalidity of the thing right out of the
water. I mean, it didn'thave any validity in the beginning, but
that makes it even worse. Uh. Stacy has a problem with spellcheck.

(50:54):
Okay, that's good. David Wardsays, set your car radio to AM
and then you is the next channelbutton on your steering wheel to step through
the radio spectrum pick up pace thatproduces short bursts of audio. It functions
like a ghostbox. I mean,you can go old school and if you're
if you have a radio that stillhas a dial, I mean that's I

(51:17):
grew up with a dial radio,just going back turning it, trying to
get the stations just in. Youknow, you're trying to find that sweet
spot where the station comes in clearly. But if you just go through like
that, yeah, that's exactly.It's a ghostbox is nothing more than changing
stations. It's not ghosts, it'sjust stations. Oh boy, let's say

(51:40):
Beth, Hey Beth. She says, I've become the opposite. I tell
myself that I'm going to get evidencebefore going to a place, mostly because
I rarely do I tell myself thatI'm not going Oh okay, I missed
that word. I'm telling myself I'mnot going to get evidence because mostly rather
do well, that's good, Imean, I approach. I would rager

(52:05):
that most people when I say I'mgoing out to an investigation or something like
that, or a ghost time,most people would be like, oh,
you're just going out to debunk stuff, which is not It's not what I
do. I try to go outand see what's going on. That's what
I want to know. I don'tI'm not trying to debunk everything. I'm
not trying to prove anything. I'mtrying to say, Okay, what's there,

(52:30):
what's the claim? Is it true? What's really going on? That's
what I want to know. Iwant to know what's really going on.
If what's really going on is afucking ghost, then yeah, that's awesome.
I would love that. That wouldbe so cool. But it doesn't
happen like that most of the timeor anytime, because I haven't found one
yet. But if that were tohappen, I would accept that. But

(52:54):
yeah, I'm getting off topic here. Awesome, Thank you, Beth,
appreciate it. Let's see, Kathy. Uh uh, let's say, I
see my name John Michael says Kenny. What's the best way for ghost hunting
team to eliminate confirmation bias in theirwork? Huh uh? Let's see.

(53:16):
So I would say you, well, you definitely have to take all the
readings, you have to take allthe notes, you have to write everything
down. The good the bad,the ugly, write it all down.
Uh. If you're if you're doingexperiments, you know, try to do
them right. I mean that's awhole nother show. Uh, that's a

(53:37):
whole other two or three shows toget into that. But try to do
them right. And if you getnegative results, you have to record that
too. You can't just say,Okay, it didn't work, we're gonna
we're gonna ignore it now. Youhave to you have to go with it.
You have to understand, like,all right, this didn't work.
Why let's let's understand why it didn'twork. Maybe because there's nothing there.

(53:58):
Um, but uh, that thatwould take I think to answer your question,
we'd have to do some more work. I really have to think about
how to eliminate confirmation bias. Um. I actually, I think the best
thing, the number one thing,is to recognize it, to understand what

(54:19):
you're doing. And I know,like way back when I was a ghost
hunter, you know I did that. I know I did that, and
I didn't realize I was doing thatuntil after I did it, you know,
years later, when I started lookingback, going fuck, you know,
I totally ignored some stuff I didbecause you know, you think you
had something really cool, you wantit to be true, and you go

(54:43):
with it and and it sucks becauseit's like self self deception. You're lying
to yourself, especially when you getthat twins of guilt. You know,
you know there's other possibilities, youknow there's something going on, but you
will ignore it, um, Andand that's that's on you. I mean
that that's on us if we dothat. So I think the best thing

(55:07):
to do is to recognize that youhave this bias. You know, if
you're if you're starting to ignore evidence, not evans, if you're starting to
ignore data, then you have torecognize that and address it, address it
with yourself and be like, shit, you know what, I'm ignoring this.
I have to go back and includethis. That's the first step recognizing

(55:29):
recognizing you have a problem. It'slike being an alcoholic. I mean,
you have to recognize you have aproblem and deal with it. You have
to fix it. So I hope, I hope that answered your question a
little bit. Uh. I probablythink on that a little bit more and
I might get back to it.We might have another conversation, you and
me. Um. So let's say, oh, uh, I'm looking through

(55:55):
I'm looking through comments making sure there'snothing do me a favor, of guys.
I mean, if you have aquestion, direct it towards me.
Do me a favor. Just putquestion or Q and then dash and your
question. That makes it easier todifferentiate between when you guys want to ask
me something and then the conversations youguys are having in there, which is

(56:17):
really cool. I mean, Ilove you know, guy, you know,
I love when I see that Bobsays, Kenny, we are so
much alike and never knew it.That's because I'm in your head, all
right. So oh shit, Ijumped ahead again. I hate when it
does that, all right, SoI think I can move on. Oh

(56:37):
wait, so Beth, Beth hasa question. Do you want to hear
the claims ahead of time? ThoughI've gotten to the point that most of
the time I don't, I dowhen it comes to any kind of claim.
Yes, I want to know theclaim ahead of time because I need
to prepare the claims that are goingon. Like if, for example,

(56:58):
this is just one example, ifsomebody claims that they hear footsteps at three
o'clock in the afternoon coming down themain staircase, if you're there at nine
o'clock at night doing your investigation.You're not following the claim, so you're
already screwed up. You already screwedup. So I want to know the
claim beforehand. If they think it'scertain people, then I want to know

(57:21):
who because I want to go researchthem and make sure that they were actually
there. It really comes down somethingthat I learned from Ben Rafford was that
you had to actually make sure there'ssomething there to investigate before you investigate.
So it's a pre investigation if solike like Fort Mifflin. Fort Mifflin is

(57:42):
I think I've used this example before, so I apologize if you've heard this
before. But Fort Mifflin in Philadelphiahas a story about the Screaming Lady,
and her tragic story is that shedied. She died of yellow fever.
Oh no, I'm sorry. Hertragic story is that she had a daughter

(58:04):
that claimed that she was going tomarry and enlist and enlisted man, and
the mother and daughter had a fallingout. The mother disowned her. The
daughter died of yellow fever, sothe mother was distraw and she hung herself
from the second floor of the officersquarters So when I looked into it,

(58:27):
looked into it really deep, gotall the records and stuff, found out
that the daughter was not old enoughto marry anyone. She was under the
age of twelve, so she wasn'tmarrying anyone. And the mother died by
yellow fever, not from hanging.And even if she did die from hanging,
it wasn't where they said it wasbecause the second floor of the officers

(58:50):
quarters where she allegedly hung herself wasnot there. It didn't exist at the
time, so she couldn't have donethat. So that's why I would want
to know before orhand that particular detailof a claim, because you want to
make sure did those people exist,did they die or whatever tragic event surrounds
them that makes them haunt that place? Did that actually actually exist? So

(59:12):
you need to look into this stufffirst. If there's certain claims that take
equipment to test properly, or ifyou want to put controls on it,
which any experiment should have proper controls, you need to know what you're dealing
with ahead of time. So ifyou go in blind, you're you're you're
unprepared, you're basically unprepared for what'sgoing on. And you're just you become

(59:37):
a spectator. That's really what itcomes down to. UM. So I
want to know everything when I doan interview. I think. UM.
Last week on Three Torture Souls podcastthat we do Saturday nights, Dave mentioned
something about like our his interview processwas like twelve pages long, and mine

(59:58):
was the same way. I hadat least twelve pages of questions and details
that I would go into with withsomebody going in, and that was just
stuff that I had written down.There was pages of notes that would go
with that too, because I wantto know all the details so I can
kind of dig through and weed outthe stuff that we can solve right away
and not spend time on time orresources on trying to investigate later if we

(01:00:23):
can solve that right away. Soyeah, to answer your question, the
short answer is yes, I dowant to hear the claims beforehand. I
know I talk a lot. Ohmy goodness, and I'm still not even
buzzed. But thank you, Beth, thank you for the question. Let's

(01:00:43):
see Hi, Deane. I hopeyou're enjoying your pretzels, Tom says Kenny
said, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I immediately hear
the theme music. Oh man,all right, let me say I'm almost
caught up here on I think onthe on the questions here, Bob says,

(01:01:07):
how do you eliminate confirmation bias?Have a skeptic on their team?
Oh, and you science come inwith an open mind, all good stuff,
all good stuff. Definitely have askeptic, like a real skeptic,
not a fake skeptic. The fakeskeptics out there are the people to say,
yeah, I'm skeptical, and thenthey see a shadow down the hall
and they're like, oh, lookat that shadow. Person that's not that's

(01:01:29):
not skeptical. Um, no,yet, somebody that is not only good
critical thinker, but also not adick um, because that's important too.
If you have someone that's that's kindof mean about it and a little bit
more cynical about it, it's it'snot going to work out well, and

(01:01:50):
you're just gonna cause a lot oftension and the the backfire effect will come
into effect literally because of confrontation betweenpeople. They'll fight and both sides will
dig in and you'll get nowhere.So there we go. Oh, let's
say, going down, going down. Stacy's got to eat something because are

(01:02:15):
you drunk? All right? Solet me oh, I got let's see
what time is it. We areat an hour so we're halfway through.
I'm gonna play my commercial, mynew commercial. Oh I got a nuke.
Well it's kind of a new.Half of it's the same, but
there's a second part that's new.So I'm gonna play my commercial and then

(01:02:37):
I'll come back and I'm gonna getthe rest of these stuff. So it's
only about a minute long, sostick around. I'll be right right back,
and here we go. Hey,there are my friends. Are you
looking to show off your science andskeptical side like these fine people? Then
head over to my tea spring store, where you'll find bunch of t shirts,
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(01:03:01):
yoga picks, and even pillows.What. Yes, there's lots of design.
You'll get some pool merge, andthe money from your purchases go right
back into my research efforts. Weall wit So check out the scientific skepticism
at keyspring dot com and remember,kids, never stop learning. Are you

(01:03:25):
tortured by what you see and hearabout the paranormal field? Join us as
we critically examining question paranormal claims,science, ghosts, demons, Krypton's UFOs,
ghost hunting technology, and much moreare all on the table for discussion.
Three Tortured Souls as the video podcastthat streams live on Saturdays at eight

(01:03:45):
pm Eastern and five Pacific. Whoothat was fun, wasn't it? I
like that? Ah, thanks toDave Schumacher putting that together. I appreciate
it because he did the one forour three Twittued Souls podcast, which was

(01:04:09):
awesome. He did that I thinktoday today or yesterday. He had it
done in like an hour or so. So thanks to Dave, I appreciate
it all right. So moving on, next topic is from JD, which
is awesome. JD Swart, Ihope you're still out there. But he
actually gave me a couple of topics, so we'll be getting through them.

(01:04:31):
He says a lot of the samephenomena that one ghost hunting team interpret as
paranormal activity is interpreted as proof ofdemonic activity by another. How can you
tell? How can you tell?Well? I think I think what JD
did right there he touched on.He touched on an issue a big issue,

(01:04:56):
and that's the term interpret We discussedthis. You know how groups usually
fail to employ scientific methods um,they usually do their own methods they use
they use tools that sometimes they don'tunderstand to collect data, and then even
that data has problems because it's notit's it's not controlled um anything. Basically,

(01:05:21):
anything strange is classified as an anomaly, and that really leads into again
I'm going to steal one of benreference terms anomaly hunting, and that's what
it is. It's looking for thingsthat are out of place or look weird
or odd or strange, and ifthey can't explain it, then you know,

(01:05:41):
usually it becomes unexplained. So wesee a lot of that, and
that's the interpretation is the key pointbecause we interpret things unfortunately. We interpret
things a lot through our own biases, through our own beliefs, and when
we do that, when we runit through the belief filter, it becomes
belief based conclusions. So if youbelieve in demons, if you believe in

(01:06:05):
angels and stuff like that, thenthat's going to have an impact on how
you interpret things. Let me letme go through my notes here, because
I wrote a bunch of stuff down. Oh man, I gotta have better
system here. But it's a lowbudget show, so you can't. Well
you paid for let's see. Soso yeah, I mean, instead of

(01:06:29):
being evidence based, it becomes beliefbased, and it's a big big deal
if you run it through your beliefs. Like I don't have any beliefs,
I really don't. I have ideas, and of course I run it through
the ideas. But for me,I run the data off of other people.
I run it through other people likeyou guys have seen I've heard me

(01:06:50):
talk about Dave Schumacher, Tim Vickers. They both have academic backgrounds and in
their respective fields. I can bouncestuff off of them, and they're just
two of the people that I canbounce stuff off of. I definitely go
out to experts whenever I can,because I want to. I want to
be right, you know, Iwant to be right. I want to
know what I'm talking about because I'mpassing along information, so it's very important

(01:07:14):
to get the right stuff, notmy own beliefs, and also running through
other people helps cut down on myown biases being or influencing the conclusion.
So I think when when you're talkingabout an interpretation, I mean you can't
tell the difference between your ghost anda demon because but both are mythology,
both or you know that. Unfortunately, there there is no proof. There

(01:07:38):
really is no proof. I mean, I know people are gonna argue and
disagree with me, but you can'tprove it. And it doesn't mean it
doesn't exist, but you just can'tprove it. There's no evidence right now.
So yeah, I guess in theend, it's just it's left up
to interpretation and whoever the team isthat's interpreting it is gonna give you their

(01:08:00):
conclusion and when you asked them like, um, I mean, j D,
this is a good um, thisis a good uh. Playoff of
last week's three Torture Souls. We'retalking about them a lot um that episode
because we actually dealt with the aftermathof a team that went into a house
and told the owner that she hadtwo demons and a couple ghosts. They

(01:08:23):
had both um and we actually reviewedthe evidence. That was a big steaming
pile of shit. That wasn't evidence. It was it was just a lot
of manipulated pictures and video. SoI mean that was based on on their
beliefs, not any evidence, notany data. It was purely belief.

(01:08:45):
So let me go. Let meso, Jim's out, great show,
Kenny, gonna head it, seeyou next on the next Oh, thanks
Jim for sticking around. I appreciateit. John says, quote, how
can you tell assumes that you nowoh, that you now know wait,
assumes that you know what a ghostis and what a demon is, and

(01:09:08):
that either even exists in the firstplace, proved their existence first, and
then you can discuss the differences betweenthe two. Otherwise anything else is just
conjecture. Agreed, There you go. I like that. Good. Oh
where'd you go? There? Hegoes, Oh, and he corrected himself.
No, it's bands. You knowwhat. Spell check screws us both,

(01:09:30):
oh say. Stacy says, Iwas raised Catholic and was actually shown
a Satanic cult video in junior high. Really, I don't know if I
got that. I grew up inCatholic school for well I think fifth grade
to well through high school. Iwas in Catholic school. I don't know
if I ever did that, buteven religion class, and when I was

(01:09:51):
going to school, I kind ofphased out, you know, I was
zoning out. I didn't pay attentionDean said, is anything can be evidence
of the inexplicable. If you're badenough with explaining things, I'll tell you,
man. I mean, it's it'sinteresting to look back or look look

(01:10:15):
at them, some ghost hunters orlike even paranormal enthusiasts across the board,
UFOs, big foots. I know, I pick on ghost hunters a lot,
and that's only because that's the communitythat I really get involved with.
But across the board, it's interestingto watch when people start trying to explain
things, and if you know aboutthe topic, if you're standing out on

(01:10:40):
the outside of the circle and you'relooking in and you know you have a
decent knowledge about the topic, andit's obvious, like painfully obvious, that
they have no fucking clue what they'retalking about. But still it's entertaining to
watch them make that ship up onthe fly and spew it out to the
audience, who, unfortunately he sucksit up and and loves it. It's

(01:11:03):
it's it's fascinating. It's fascinating froma psychological standpoint, just watching that take
place, and sadly I see itall too often, all too often.
Oh, let's say Beth, Bethsays, critical thinking and common sense would
solve a lot of the problems inthis field. But common sense is not

(01:11:24):
so common anymore anywhere. Really sadbut true. I agree, beth,
Um, it really is common sense, I mean is the beginning. Common
sense is the beginning of critical thinking, because I mean you should have this
common sense that Okay, something's notright here, and then you get into
critically analyzing it or looking at itdeeper. Um. That should be the

(01:11:48):
kind of the process. And it'ssadly it's not. It's just not there.
Um. But yeah, it wouldsolve a lot of problems if we
actually stopped and look that things alittle bit more critically. All right,
let me see what is it?What it? Wait? I skipped ahead,

(01:12:08):
I lost I lost something here,Anthony says. But we believe in
science, and that can fail toothrough rigorous testing or when technology catches up
with their theories. Scientists can theorizebecause some may believe or have faith that
one day it will be tested tosee if it will pass as law or
fail that test. When the testthey can perform now confirms their theory did

(01:12:31):
not pass the test. Wow,that that's that's a little confusing. But
I'll say this, it's not wedon't believe in science. Um. We
we rely on science. Science isnot a belief system. Um. And
absolutely you can fail it's it's scienceis actually a self correcting uh method it

(01:12:54):
because when it does fail it scienceis the reason we figure out it fails,
beside any tragedies that actually happen becauseof them, but science is the
one that figures out what went wrongand how to fix it. We can
Scientists can hypothesize, not I mean, that's that's what they do. That's
the beginning of the method. Theyhypothesize on stuff, hoping that it can

(01:13:17):
be tested and keep going, keepgoing. You hypothesize something because you have
an idea and you think, okay, I think this is caused by this,
or if we do this, thiswill happen. And that's hypothesizing.
So there has to be test.There has to be research done to confirm
or deny that, and that's howthe process goes. It's well before anything

(01:13:41):
gets to be a theory. Butlet me let me read this again.
Because some may believe or have faiththat one day it will be tested to
see if it will pass as lawor fail that test. When the tests,
they can form converse. So I'msorry, Anthony, that's that's confusing.

(01:14:02):
I'm a little confused by that.So I'm not sure exactly where that's
getting into, but I can understand, like, yeah, science can can
test the shit out of stuff,and sometimes it continually fails or something seems
to be progressive, and then whenit's independently tested, which it should be
by a different team under the sameconditions, and it fails, something's wrong,

(01:14:24):
and then it should stop. Itshouldn't go forward it, you know,
retest it and retest it. That'snot going forward. That's that's kind
of staying in the same place andmaking sure you know what's what happened,
trying to figure it out before youmove forward. Um. But I'm not
sure exactly what this comment was too, because I think I'm behind a little
bit. Yeah, about ten minutesor so, maybe six minutes. So

(01:14:46):
I'm not sure what this is for. But maybe they'll be clarification later on.
Uh. Let's say JD says,I saw their evidence all looked like
smudges to me. Oh, okay, you're talking about the video that we
we talked about last week. Yeah, that was bad. Uh, let's
say Nicholas speaking of false stories,Colugh Golf. Bobby mackis, Oh,

(01:15:09):
yeah, yeah, that's a bigproblem. Oh let's see, um Darren
Darren had to go because he hasto work in the morning. Thank you,
Darren, appreciate or Darren, Iappreciate you coming by. Always always
appreciate it. HM. Jim saysif a team always finds demons, they
are spending too much time watching umdB bag out. I was like DV

(01:15:35):
who's dB Baggins, douche bag Baggins. That's good on TV. Oh man,
let's say uh, oh wait,there's there's let's say, oh Anthony,
okay, great, awesome. Hesays Anthony's back and says that all
came out wrong. I do thinkyou can have faith that one day you

(01:15:56):
will see the truth or know thetruth and be an advocator of science.
Some of us will never have allthe answers, even if we are geniuses
and die just as ignorant as someonelike the I see, I agree that.
I mean yeah, I mean wewe can. We can have faith.
I mean faith is not really religiousfaith. You can have faith in
people that's not religion, But youcan have faith that hopefully something um will

(01:16:18):
be proven true one day. Yeah, I agree with that. You can.
You can totally do that, UM, And no, we will not.
We will not have all the answers. I mean, even if we're
geniuses. I mean, there's stillso much to answer. That's that's beyond
the scope of this show and beyondthe scope of my intelligence, because I'm
nowhere near smart enough to be likethat UM or to start having all the

(01:16:42):
answers. I don't know where I'mgoing with this, but I agree with
we can. We can all prettymuch die as ignorant back And sometimes I
don't know. I don't really don'tknow where I went with that, So
maybe I am getting a little buzzall right, Moving on. John Michael

(01:17:03):
says ghosts in theory should be easierto prove than God or Satan, since
claims of ghosts involve's site, smell, hearing, than they are within the
realm of testable scientific phenomena. Peopledon't just don't apply scientific principles to their
investigations and instead of just asked theirthe air questions in empty rooms. Oh

(01:17:23):
okay, hey JD's back, Good, awesome, let's see. All right,
I'm gonna move on. Because Idid Let's see, I did that
one question. Let me see,Oh that was over there, so I
got another another one from j D. He says, what techniques, if

(01:17:43):
any, are there to get ridof ghosts or exercise the spirit. Ghost
hunting teams always seem to do investigations. He also puts that in quotes I
love that and steakouts to get videoand photographic evidence for their slide shows,
but nobody ever seems to actually helppeople by giving ghosts the boot. What's
the point in asking somebody for helpif they're just going to tell you what

(01:18:08):
you already believe. If I believedmy house was haunted, I would want
the spirit the hell out at thehouse. Okay. Um. So so
with this um to me, andthis actually brought up an idea that I
actually had to look up again.Um because to me, uh, this
is like asking how do you getrid of nd raise and if you're curious

(01:18:31):
about n rays, definitely look itup. Um. It was. It
was something that was discovered in nineteeno three by Renee Blonde Dot Blonde Lot,
Blonde Lot, but it was debunkedsoon after by Robert Wood. Um.
Look it up and raise. It'sa fascinating story. UM I suggest
looking up just to familiarize your familiarizeyourself with it if you don't know about

(01:18:53):
it. But basically it means becauseof like getting rid the ghost it ghosts
or something that it hasn't been shownto exist yet. So I mean,
if you want to get rid ofthem, just stop believing in them.
They're they're poof gone. I meanthat it's it's honestly as easy as that.

(01:19:15):
UM because help, I mean youmentioned help to help as in what
um like. Some people consider helpas in like, all right, get
rid of whatever's in here, youknow, like like pest control or something
like that. If you have ratsin the basement or raccoons in the attic,
you want to get rid of them, you call adam a control or
some kind of pest organization and getrid of them. Some people call ghost

(01:19:42):
hunters to get rid of the ghosts, and that goes into staging and stuff
like that. Which is That's atopic I think we're gonna cover tomorrow night
on three Tortured Souls. The wholecleansing thing. I have my cleansing I
have my cleansing kit right here,my sage kit. So we'll break that
out tomorrow. Um. But somepeople consider help just someone to come in

(01:20:03):
and say they're not crazy. I'vebeen there for that. I've been there
for that many times where it's likeI don't care what you know. I
don't I don't need the ghost goon. I don't need this. I
just need someone to tell me thatall the stuff I'm experiencing actually happened and
I'm not crazy. Uh. Andthen that that, unfortunately leads to a
different um set of problems because excuseme now, you're now you're like,

(01:20:28):
well, it's a topic we've coveredbefore. Are the people coming in the
ghost hunters qualified to do that?You know? Like again, I'm going
to use the case last week onThree Tours of Souls where we were going
over a case and Tim Vickers wasactually um talking with the family, talking
with the daughter and going through stuff. Is he qualified to do that?

(01:20:50):
Yes, actually he is. Hedoes have an academic background that that that's
his area of expertise, so hecan talk to the family about certain things
like that, and he also doeshave contacts for other issues that come up,
um, maybe medical issues and stuff. He has doctors that he can
talk to, so that Yeah,he's actually qualified for that. And the

(01:21:14):
worry that I have with what you'retalking about, JD, with like teams
claiming that they can help clients,yeah, are they qualified to actually help
them? Because if we take awaythe ghost aspect, because again, we
can't prove that they're actually there.I mean I wish we could, but
we can't. Therefore, that's that'snot the problem. The problem is there's

(01:21:35):
experiences that they're having and they don'tunderstand them and they're scared. So how
do you fix that? How doyou how do you how do you?
How do you understand what's going onand resolve the issue? Um, sometimes
it's for me if if I takepart in something like that, it's as
easily as going through the claims oneby one and saying, Okay, let's

(01:22:00):
try this, let's try that.Okay, we found a solution to this.
Trying to find a solution and showingthem and going through those steps usually
helps ease the anxiety. But ifyou go in as as a ghost hunting
team with no background in actually helpingpeople, and you you start telling them
you have they have demons in thehouse, then you just fuck that.

(01:22:21):
Finally, you've you've fucked them up. Good. Um, you're not helping
them, You're you're making it worse. You're making it a lot worse.
If you tell them that they haveghosts and they freak out, they get
upset, you're making it worse.You're not helping at all. Um.
So I mean, yeah, wecan go both both ways, both ways

(01:22:43):
with that kind of thing. Um. Sometimes if it just takes like going
in and say no, you're notcrazy. You know, the door does
open by itself. But the dooropens by itself, not because the ghost
is opening it. It's opening becauseof like air pressure coming in because you
had the window you know in theother room open. There sarah pressure and
that's why it opens. That's that'shelping. But yeah, telling a family

(01:23:08):
that they have demons in their house. Fuck, no, oh my god.
All right, next topic, letme see, let me make sure
we don't have any comments or stuff. Hey Mike, how you doing?
Good show? Thank you? Iappreciate it. I've been told that people
like when I get worked up orfired up, so I figured i'd take

(01:23:29):
some topics on that. You know, dude, get me fired up.
Hmm, let's say, Bob sayshim. Now, you're talking about validity.
All right, so let me see. Uh. Anthony says, yeah,
Zach is pretty ignorant. That wasmy point. He wants to be
remain ignorant. Okay, good,So all right, we're good. I

(01:23:50):
think we're good. Anthony, thankyou. That's funny. All right,
I'm going through. Just make sure. Wait, I see a q q
N rays n rays oh n theletter N dash raise, that's what you
want to look for, Um,nineteen oh three renee blonde lot. So

(01:24:14):
it's R E N E with alittle swoosh on the top of the e,
and then blonde lot is b lo N d l O T and
if you look it up, it'sit's a cool story. Um, it's
about someone that thought they discovered somethingand then figuring out that they did not.
Well, somebody else figured out theydid not, and uh, it's
a cool story. So let's see. Uh, all right, everybody's having

(01:24:43):
a conversation. Oh cool. Wait, there is a question, Dan Webster,
what's up Dan? How are youdoing? Buddy ols? His question
is do you believe the government militaryhas changed their UFO policy, meaning it
seems that they are now showing videosof said UFOs and letting the public come
up with their own own conclusion asopposed to offering their own explanations. Does
it add more credibility when the rawvideos come from the military with background commentary.

(01:25:08):
And if you do think the governmenthas switched their approach, why do
you think that is? So,I'm I'm I guess you're I'm going to
assume that you're talking about the threevideos that's been over and over again,
the tic Tac video, the GoFast video, and I think there's another

(01:25:29):
one I forget the other nickname forit, but the tic Tac video and
the Go Fast video, or thetwo main ones that have been out the
last two or two years or threeyears or so, that have been making
the rounds. You see them allover the place. I think it was
they were featured on the new seasonof Unsolved Mysteries or something like that.
So I really don't think there's beena change in UFO policy per se.

(01:25:56):
It's just that these were leaked.I don't know if they were really leaked
or not, I don't know.And the commentary, unfortunately, I don't
give too much credibility to the commentarybecause I mean, they're they're we do
have they're released as videos, andby saying we don't know what this is
does not mean that they're they're aliencraft. It just doesn't. It just

(01:26:20):
means they're unidentified. They could bethey're aircraft, but not identified. Which
aircraft that's all um or even theone the go fast I think is what
is the go fast? Now?The go fast I think is the one
that goes out really quick to theside. And then there's another one that
that kind of looking down over waterand it I think that actually turned out

(01:26:43):
to be a bird. I'm notsure. I don't I don't remember.
The best thing I can I canoffer for that good explanations on that is
to look at the metabunk website metabunk m E t a bu n k
um for from Mick West. Heis. He's the absolutely awesome guy for
this. He does a lot ofgood technical, scientific inquiry into these kind

(01:27:08):
of videos when it comes with UFOs, So he's my go to guy.
So I would definitely go with himnot offering explanations because you mentioned like the
public come up with their own conclusionas opposed to offering. There's no change
in that, honestly, I meanthat's been going on forever Area fifty one.

(01:27:28):
I mean, that's aircraft that's beenseen that they don't offer. They
don't offer explanations. They let peoplecome up with their own conclusions because it's
much easier, it's less work forthem if they're working on something. It
really doesn't matter. And I haveno doubt that whoever released the videos that
takes Back video and the go Fastvideo probably laughing heir ass off having a

(01:27:49):
ball with this, because it's justit's so much conspiracy theory wrapped around this
that even with the raw videos andthe commentary again, I mean that we
have to deal with that, well, not deal delve into that a lot
more than what this show is goingto allow right now, because I only

(01:28:11):
have a half hour left. Butwe can talk more about that later,
and I can actually send you somelinks that that get into that a little
bit more more detailed from good sorceI mean, I don't know if you
would consider them good sources. Iconsider them good credible sources. So we
can get into that a little bitmore later. But I don't think there's
a change. I mean, it'sit's pretty much the same shit. You

(01:28:33):
know, it's a video, it'sreleased. Let people have fun with it.
Conspiracy theories. Theorists are having aball with it, and the rest
of us are like, whatever,dude, it's a it's a fucking plane.
It's it's a plane. No bigdeal. I mean, all the
information is actually there on screen whenyou watch the video. The information is

(01:28:54):
around the screen. If you'll lookat that stuff, it tells you the
whole story. So I don't reallysee too much more into that, all
right, but thank you for thequestion. I appreciate it. Dan.
It's good to see you again.I haven't seen you for a while.
Kathy says, do you have atrusted person to step in case? Wait?

(01:29:16):
Do you have a trusted person tostep in in case? Goodness forbid?
I don't know what that means.I don't know if that's for me,
but I don't I'm not sure whatthat means. Stacy's is concentrating on
Kenny's tattoo, trying to figure itout which one. I have a bunch

(01:29:39):
it's Thor's hammer. I have Thor'shammer. I have the Highlander us Well,
it's a dagger, but it's aHighlander sword from a Connor McCloud.
I have the Eye of ra Ihave Star Wars, I have Superman and
Scooby Doo Gang. So I havea bunch. Let's say, all right,

(01:30:00):
so I'm gonna go on with thenext one here. So this is
a short one, this next one, I have two actually left. But
the next one is from Anthony Seletti. His question, his question was,
is the world ready for a hauntedmuseum curiated by a skeptic? And I
would say apps a fucking lootley Goddamn yeah, m And I say that

(01:30:26):
because fucking paranormal shows, the unrealityshows have been on for years now.
Ghosts not finding Bigfoot, ancient aliens, what a piece of shit show that
is. They've been around for awhile, but you hardly ever see a
resolution to the mystery. You neverdo. I mean, they never find

(01:30:48):
Bigfoot, they never find ghosts,they don't find aliens, So there is
no resolution. The mystery is notsolved. Oddity museums, which is something
that I love, I have.I have a love of oddity museums.
Whenever I travel, that's one ofa few things I definitely look up and
make sure that if there's one inthe area, you know, within an

(01:31:11):
hour or so, driving distance fromwherever I am. I make sure I
go. But even with that,a lot of the oddity museums have the
same shit you know there, there'sa lot of shit you can get on
Etsy. How many? How manyfairy fossils have you seen at oddity museums
if you go to them? I'veseen them at every single one. I've

(01:31:34):
seen mummified fairies because they're much moremuch cheaper to get, because they're much
easier to make. Do I haveit here? Do I have? Oh?
Wait, I can? I mightbe able to show you. Do
I have it here? No?I know I have. I actually have
a frame with a mummified mermaid,a mummified fairy, and mummified back that

(01:32:00):
I made myself, and ironically afterI made them, because I found tutorials
on how to do it. AfterI made them, I went out to
We went out to Vegas. Itwas last year. We went out to
Vegas twenty nineteen for the Psicon goingon out there, and a friend of
ours, Selski Award, who doesScoring the Strange podcast, we met up

(01:32:24):
with her. My wife and Imet up with her and a bunch of
other people and we went to UM. I think it's called the Golden Tigi
out there, which for for youZach Baggen fans out there, he went
he actually went there and investigated.No, we did, um, but
he went there. But they haduh going to the restrooms. There's like

(01:32:45):
a wall of all these oddities.And on the on that wall, I
saw the same fairies that I built, which was really cool. I mean,
I can get into that later.Um. Basically, it's a it's
dollar store skeletons that you buyed littleones and like shrink wrap and some stain
um wood stain and hot glue andstuff, and it's it took me about

(01:33:09):
an hour to make really cool thoughreally really cool. Um. All right,
So with that, yeah, Imean it would because of that kind
of stuff. I figure, youknow what, one day when the museum
is back up and running, um, and and and it's out there,
it's actually I mean, the wholeidea of the museum that I was building

(01:33:30):
there was about education. It wasabout showing you these mysteries that are out
there in the world, but alsoshowing you the steps that were taken by
either me or other people that wetook to solve them, and how we
solve them and that we did solvethem, that it can be done,
and the education, just the processalone, and that's something I strive to

(01:33:51):
to really get out there. Um. My last article that came up on
Skeptical Inquirer, the latest one aboutyou know, the silly Halloween videos that
come up, the silly videos thatcome up during Halloween season with like the
Gettysburg ghosts and stuff like that.At the end of the article, actually,
I tell you that how important itis that even though like some of

(01:34:13):
these videos are ridiculously stupid, becausereally they are, it doesn't matter because
some people will believe them. Somepeople don't understand what they're looking at.
And if we're going to be goodskeptics or investigators or whatever you want to
call yourselves, we have to showour work. We really do. We
have to show how we came toour conclusion, not just it's fake,

(01:34:35):
because if I just say it's fake, it's no better than somebody else saying
it's real. So you have toactually, you have to show your work.
And that's what I do. Evenif it's a really easy video to
debunk, or it's a complicated mysterythat's out there that takes years and some
of them have taken me years tosolve. Putting it out there and showing

(01:34:59):
the work will help other people understandit better and maybe apply the same kind
of steps or tricks or tips orwhatever to what they're doing and maybe help
them alone. So, yes,is the world ready for a skeptical run
paranormal museum? Fuck? Yeah,it is. So that's my rent for

(01:35:19):
that. All right, let mecheck the comments here. I have a
question from cat Word. She says, how do you feel about the possibility
of psychic projection as in the Philipexperiment? Could a person if they wanted
to, if they wanted it tobe real cause phenomenon themselves. I don't

(01:35:40):
think so. I really don't thinkso. The Philip experiment, I think
was extremely flawed, very flawed.I've read through it, and it hasn't
been recent, but I have readthrough it and I found it extremely flawed.
I almost silly at times, tobe honest, but it wasn't.
You cannot bring something into existence justby thinking about it. Uh. And

(01:36:04):
we're talking about an entity like alike a persona. They made up a
story and at best, I wouldsay it was more of a um like
an imagination. Road trip. Youknow, like, I don't know if
you can relate, but if youread a good book and you're into the

(01:36:26):
story, into the characters, andthe characters become real to you, you
know, like you you feel theemotion you read stuff, and when a
character dies and you actually like feelthat emotion, you feel that loss.
That's not bringing into existence and entity. That's that's relating to the story.
And I think these people were invested. They related to the story. They
invested heavily in it because they madeeverything up. Um so to them,

(01:36:51):
maybe it seemed real. But didthey actually create an entity? No?
No, because there's nothing to showfor it. Uh So I hope that
answered your question. I don't knowif you agree, but I don't.
I don't know. I don't thinkthere's anything to that. So let's say,

(01:37:12):
let's keep moving on. Wow.Wow, this has been a great
show. I've been having so muchfun. Yes, John Michael, I'm
not saying it's Aliens, but it'sAliens. I love that guy's hair,
so awesome. Bob mentions the MunnerMuseum Oddity Museum. Yes, I you

(01:37:33):
know what, that's the one Ihaven't been to, and I pass it
almost all the time, almost everyday. I've never been into the Munner
Museum. Maybe maybe I'll try anddo that. I'll see if it's open
this weekend. Maybe I'll go andcheck it out. Uh, let's see,

(01:37:56):
Best says, got home from workand saw this Motley Crue congregating over
here. Poked my head into seeI'm out of here. Have a good
night, and thanks you for thegood conversation. Good. I hope you
liked it, Beth, I hopeyou enjoyed it, and I hope you
return. So there you go.Awesome, very cool, John Michael.
On the eighth day, Kenny Biddlemade a fairy and he did such a

(01:38:17):
poor job it died on the fighting. Take it easy, Kathy, thank
you, thank you for coming by. And Kat says, I do tend
to agree with you. Good,caught up with all the comments. Good.
So the last thing I got isfrom John Michael. And I wasn't

(01:38:41):
sure if I was going to getto this, and I this is good.
We can spend a little bit ofa time on this. We got
enough time on the end. JohnMichael says, oh, can you can
we talk about logical fallacies like argumentsfrom ignorance? And begging the question as
well. So, logical fallacies aresomething, and I really I do like
them, and every now and thenI dip back into them and I read

(01:39:05):
like, there's a site, awebsite up and I'll try and put it
in the comments later when I findit. But there's a website that actually
offers a poster that you can hangup that I've been meaning to order where
it has all the logical fallacies andthen brief descriptions of them, and it's
I think it's called your logical fallacyis dot dot dot. And then you

(01:39:26):
can go into all kinds like asharpshooter and and and stuff like that.
But let's let's start with a basicdefinition. Um, Like, this is
a very basic definition. A logicalfallacy is an error in reasoning common enough
to warrant a fancy name. Imean, that's as basic as you can
get. And I love it becauseit's to the point. Um, they're

(01:39:47):
errors in logic when you make anargument, when when you are debating something
back and forth. H thank you, John, Um he put it up.
Logical fallacies. Your logical fallacy isdot com. That's awesome them.
Um, So, logical fallacies yes, they're definitely like their errors in logic,
in reasoning when you're when you're havinga debate or argument, and it's

(01:40:10):
it's something that you really you shouldknow about them. You should be familiar
with them and recognize them because that'sthat's Oh, it's really important because it
really changes the game in any kindof of discussion. It shouldn't be a
dick and point them out every chanceyou get, because that just, you
know, it becomes like, oh, you're using that, you're using that,

(01:40:33):
and it becomes a clusterfuck. Butso so let's go onto two that
he actually mentioned. The first onehe mentioned was an argument from ignorance,
and I'm gonna read the definition offhere. It's this asserts that a proposition
is true because it has not yetbeen proven false, or a proposition is

(01:40:54):
false because it has not yet beenproven true. It's also known as an
appeal to ignorance. And it isn'tproof of anything. It really isn't except
that you don't know anything, oryou don't know something. I shouldn't say
anything. That's all it is.It's not a proof of anything. It's
just showing that you don't know aboutthis subject. If no one has proven

(01:41:17):
the non existence of ghosts or flyingsauces, for example, that's hardly proof
that those things either exist or don'texist. If we don't know whether they
exist, then we don't know thatthey do exist or that they don't exist.
What oh yeah, okay. Soas an example, of course,

(01:41:40):
Zach Beggins was possessed by a demonfor the three hundred and sixty fourth time.
What else could be? What elsecould make him act like that?
That's like an argument from ignorance becauseyou don't know why he's acting. I
mean we kind of do, youknow, writings, but we don't know
why he's doing it, So they'refor if you assume that it must be

(01:42:01):
a demon, that's an argument fromignorance because you really don't know. And
it goes both ways. Like you, we hear the common argument, you
can't prove ghosts don't exist absolutely.I mean that's true. I can't prove
ghosts don't exist. I can't proveexist they exist either. It's just it's
not right now, it's not possible. So it's an argument from ignorance.

(01:42:25):
If you use that to back orsupport your argument, you're using a logical
fallacy and it's not right. It'swrong because you're you're using a lack of
knowledge to prove something to be true, and that's bullshit. So the other
logical fallacy he got into, andI have a few more just in case

(01:42:49):
we have enough time. So theother one is begging the question, which
is also known as circular reasoning,and this one is defined as the fallacy
of begging the question occurs when anarguments premise premises assume the truth of the
conclusion instead of supporting it. Inother words, you assume without proof that

(01:43:12):
the position you're defending, or ora significant part of that position you're defending,
is in your question. So Idon't know if I explain that right,
hopefully, hopefully that came out good. So example would be the owner
told us that the wait, theowner told us the house is haunted,
so I can't wait to get someparanormal evidence. And if somebody says,

(01:43:36):
well, how do you know it'shaunted, and the answer is because the
owner told us, that's the proof. That's the example of begging the question,
which is also circular reasoning, becauseit's already there. You're already making
the assumption in the statement that it'shaunted. And the reason that the house
is haunted is because the guy thatowns it said it was not that there's

(01:43:56):
any actual proof. And then thiswill go around because you can say,
well, how do you know it'shaunted? It because the owner said so,
Well, how to the owner know? And you can say, well,
because he's in there at the houseis haunted, he sees ghosts.
Oh okay, and it keeps goingaround and around and around and around.
It never stops. So that's that'sa error in logic, and it it

(01:44:18):
kind of sucks. It really sucksbecause when once you get into that circular
reasoning and you recognize it, ifyou don't recognize it, you can be
lost in as It's almost like beingin an argument online because you can waste
the whole fucking day arguing with somebodyand get nowhere, absolutely nowhere. Um.

(01:44:41):
So try to recognize that and getout of it as fast as possible
because it'll save you a lot oftime. So I have a couple others
here that I want to touch onreal quick. My favorite one of all
is the ad hominin logical fallacy,and this is basically, excuse me when
uh, instead of addressing someone's argumentor position, you attack the person.

(01:45:05):
So I get this a lot whereit's like we start having a discussion about
something like some kind of parallel eventor some evidence, and instead of addressing
the comments towards the evidence, Iget a comment like, well, you
debunk everything because you're just a skeptic, and that's it. You're a skeptic.

(01:45:27):
You're not going to believe anything,so fuck you. And that's usually
what I get. That's the beginningof the ad hominin because instead of actually
addressing the point, you're saying thatI'm the problem. You would start attacking
me because of my stance, mybasic stance or beliefs or lack of beliefs,
then use that as a way toargue your point. Which that's not

(01:45:51):
how it goes. That's not howit works. Uh so ad hominin,
that's it. Another one is posthoc ergo propter hawk. I love that
one. This is basically this thereforethat, And it's a conclusion that assumes
that if A occurred after B,then B must have been caused, or

(01:46:14):
wait then B, then B musthave caused. A example, I asked
a flashlight to turn off and itdid, so that is proof of ghost
communication. So basically, if onething happens and another thing happens, you
pretty much say, because of thatthis happened, it's a ghost. The

(01:46:34):
example that I use often is that, Okay, so if I'm upstairs in
the bathroom and I, you know, do my business, I flushed the
toilet and my doorbell rings. Doesthat mean that when I flushed the toilet
that the doorbell rang. Did Imake that happen? No, it doesn't.

(01:46:54):
It means that two things happen atthe same time, or relatively at
the same time, and they reallydidn't have anything to do with each other.
So just because something happened after anotherthing doesn't mean that the first thing
caused a second thing. And that'sthat's a logical fallacy that you see a
lot in, especially in paranormal research. Let's say Bob has a comment here,

(01:47:17):
I want to get up there becausehe does this kind of stuff.
After having taught history, law,and psychology for eighteen years, I tell
my students all the time, donot trust what I am telling you.
Go do your own research. Theteacher logical fallacy or appeal to authority fallacy.
You can't trust what teachers tell you. I was lied to by several

(01:47:38):
history to teachers. I swore Iwould never be like them when I became
a teacher. So yeah, thethe argument from authority or the appeal to
authority fallacy is basically, because someoneis has an authority in something, they
must be right. I think that'sthe general idea of that one. And

(01:47:59):
that's that's a fallacy you see oftenbecause it's like, if someone is perceived
as an expert, they'll ask questionsof that expert and say, all right,
well, this person said this,and therefore we should believe him because
he's an expert. And the firstquestion you should always ask is what are
they an expert in? Are theyan expert in this related field or are

(01:48:21):
they related into or an expert insome other field. Like you wouldn't ask
a physicist a biology question because that'sjust not their area, so you wouldn't
treat them as an expertum same wayyou wouldn't ask a biologist about a physics
question. You just don't do thatbecause it's the wrong type of expert.

(01:48:45):
So the appeal to authority something todefinitely look at when especially with Paris celebrities.
Oh, my god. You knowhow many of them were perceived as
authority figures when they're not. Unfortunately, it's it's the ghost hunter effect,
where it's it's you can say you'rea ghost hunter, a paranormal investigator,

(01:49:06):
and you're automatically an expert in everything. There's that self perception that changes where
you're like, oh, well Iknow this, now, I know what
I'm doing. I'm gonna have anopinion on everything. And it happens to
everybody. I'm not trying to,you know, belittle anyone, it just
happens and it gets out of control. So yes, you can start having

(01:49:26):
this authority complex and start giving expertadvice on stuff that you're not an expert
in. And Paris celebrities get thata lot because they're on TV. They're
viewed as more more of an expertand as an authority figure, and the
appeal to authority is it's it's allover them, all right. The last

(01:49:48):
one I have is the strong manfallacy, which is something I love too.
This occurs when someone takes another person'sargument or point and distorts it or
exaggerate it in some kind of extremeway, and then attacks that extreme distortion,
which makes it easier to attack.For an example, we have if

(01:50:13):
somebody says, there's an explanation forthat ghost of the experience, and then
someone else says, well, youdon't believe in God, so you're not
going to believe in ghosts either,which is something I get a lot and
the whole belief in God. Really, it doesn't have anything to do with
the original point. It was justmaking it so that I look easier to

(01:50:34):
attack, because if you bring thereligion factor into it, that's gonna have
an emotional impact on other people thatare probably watching and bring them to your
side, because now it's like,oh, okay, this guy doesn't believe
in God, so you know he'she's a heathen, you know, evil
person now, so obviously he doesn'tbelieve in ghosts. And then it's just

(01:50:58):
it makes it makes it easier forsomeone to attack my argument instead of actually
arguing about the main point. Sological fallacies are really cool. It's really
there's a lot of common ones,but there's a whole bunch out there,
and if you don't know too muchabout them, or know anything about them
at all, I suggest you lookthem up. Definitely look them up and

(01:51:19):
familiarize yourself with them, because it'sit's beneficial to you not only to recognize
them in other people, but torecognize them in yourself. Because I,
once I started looking into these andlearning them and understanding them better, I
did see a lot of them inmyself in my own arguments, and it

(01:51:39):
helped me to get them out,to get them out of my arguments,
get them out of my reasoning andfocus. And even if I start slipping
into one of them slippery slope,I recognize it right away and stop myself.
And maybe sometimes you'll see it herewhere, like I'm starting to make
a point and then all of asudden I stopped and like, no,

(01:52:00):
let me rephrase that, because Iknow I'm about to say something that I
don't want to prove of, soI get out of that and go a
different direction that's more on point withthe logic and reasoning than I'm used to.
So definitely, I definitely think youshould. You guys should look into
that. That would be really cooland give you a better understanding. So

(01:52:21):
I think there was a question uphere that I skipped over. I didn't
skip it over, but I wasjust trying to keep the flow going,
so Dave Francis, I love Ilove the profile picture question. What are
your personal what's your personal thoughts onSteve Hoff and what he does? Honestly?

(01:52:46):
To put it bluntly, I thinkhe's a con man and I don't
trust him. And I think hecharges way too much for a piece of
shit device that doesn't do what heclaims it does. And I think he
exploits celebrities that recently pass away umand I think that that's basically it.
I don't I don't care for him. I'd rather hang out with Zach Baggins

(01:53:10):
than him. So if you watchthe show, if you know me at
all, you know that's pretty severe. So oh my god, I don't
like that guy. Don't like him. I like him, Nicholas, that
guy is a turduh. Wow yep, all right, so let me say,

(01:53:32):
uh, I'm going to do thecomments here, just making sure Carol's
like bittles a heathen, heathen,burn him at the steak on me.
There you go. Yeah, youcan try. I'm feisty, I bite,
so you might try to tie meto a steak and I'll I'll bite
you, bite the shit out ofyou. Okay. So we're at the

(01:53:55):
end. We're at an hour andfifty three minutes. That's cool. We
gotta five minutes left. I've doneeverything that I had to say or cover.
That was awesome. I want tothank everyone for your awesome topics.
I appreciate it. Six pages worthof notes here, six pages that I

(01:54:15):
had to go over research and familiarizemyself with, which was great. It
refreshed a lot of stuff in myhead because you know, after a couple
of weeks or a couple of months, you lose the basic understanding of something.
Not basic understanding, but you losesome of the detail. And it's
nice to refresh. So awesome.I love it. Oh, and then
let's see Tracy. Hey, Tracy, she says, understanding logical fallacies is

(01:54:40):
a very important tool in the Bolognydetection kit. Yes, demon Haunted World.
Yes, highly recommend Segan's Demon HauntedWorld. Great book. I have
it back here on the shelf.I love it. Read it. I
fell in love with that book,Absolutely love it. It's good. I
mean some of the stuff is datedin that book, but I mean that

(01:55:00):
can be death control. Let mesee if I where is it? Where
is it? Um? I'm probablynot gonna be able to find it now,
because I really do want to bringit out and show it. Oh
man, I don't know where itis demon Houmeted World. I know I
have it, don't don't I see, I have Dragons of Eden, I

(01:55:26):
have contact. It should be likeright here where oh wait here it is?
All right, So I'll actually usethis as my book of the week,
all right, because it's such anawesome book. If you have not
read this book, go fucking orderit now. Seriously, go fucking order

(01:55:46):
this. This is one of thegreatest books you can read. Um.
It will expand your mind, Itwill blow your mind. I mean some
of the stuff that Carl came out, I mean I so wish he was
still with us because his insight wasamazing, amazing. So yeah, definitely
recommend this Demon Home the World byCarl Sagan. Please pick it up.

(01:56:12):
It's on Amazon. You can totallyget it. And uh, it's definitely
worth the money. Um, definitelyworth it, and take the time really
read it, understand it. Imean, I have a lot of stuff
that's underlying through here, stuff that'shighlighted that I keep going back to just
so I can reread and refresh myself. So very awesome. Book Bob says,

(01:56:35):
you need a card catalog. OhI do. I do. That
would be great one day when Iget a big office, you know,
like maybe when I get that thatnew museum area and I have a space,
I'll try and find a card catalogand fill it out. And that
way I can have like I fithim with an air cannon, so when

(01:56:56):
you open the geors, they're openedby themselves and then shoot all the cards
out Ghostbusters. Alrighty, So Iappreciate everyone coming out and spending your Friday
night with me. Really cool tosee everyone. I love it. We
had a lot of people watching tonight, which is great. I don't know
what I did to get more numbersup. I'll fucking try try again.

(01:57:23):
So to sum it up, let'ssee, I got scientific Skepticism on t
spring. If you're interested in anykind of shirts like that. It's about
science, it's about critical thinking andskepticism. There's lots of designs on there
if you're interested. No pressure,but the money from from that actually goes
back into my research. It helpsme continue on with the stuff that I'm

(01:57:45):
doing. It helps me pay fora lot of stuff like the platform that
I broadcast on and a lot ofother stuff, So I do appreciate it.
If you're into it, check itout. On Saturday Tomorrow night,
eight o'clock pm Eastern, five Pacific, I will be on three Tortured Souls.

(01:58:06):
That's one of the shows I cohost with Dave Schumacher and Tim Vickers
tomorrow. I think we're talking aboutcleansings and smudging and stuff like that,
getting into that kind of topic,and we're going to really dissect it and
really get into it. What elseis there? I do a column for
Skeptical Inquirer called a Closer Look.I just recently released another article about a

(01:58:30):
couple of videos that came out onethis year, one last year, and
I really break them down. Igot another one in the works. Always
have articles in the works, andI think on the site I probably have
like forty plus articles up on theirvarious topics, a lot of the videos
and gadgets and all kinds of stuff. So if you're interested, I have

(01:58:51):
a YouTube channel called Kenny Biddle ifyou want to check that out. I
usually upload this stuff once in awhile when I get time, I upload
different videos and that's it. Ifyou're well not, that's not it if
you're organizing any kind of event that'sin the Philadelphia surrounding area, because that's

(01:59:11):
where I'm based out of and it'slike a paranormal or a skeptical event whatever,
and you want someone like with mykind of opinion to attend, maybe
talk or be a part of thepanel or whatever. I love doing that
kind of stuff, So please reachout to me and make a connection because
I'd love to I'd love to actuallytake part. I mean, I love

(01:59:32):
doing this stuff. I love talkingabout it. I love helping to figure
out some mysteries and stuff. SoI'm totally gay. I love this.
Uh this rhetorical question from Bob.When do you sleep? I sleep usually
I sleep between like two thirty threeam two about like seven, like seven

(01:59:57):
seven thirty or something like that.My wife comes out or wakes up,
and uh we uh we get started. But yeah, I usually stay.
After this, I'm wired, soI'll be watching YouTube videos all night and
I usually pick out like a lotof science ones, and I love to
learn, so I'll be watching thosekind of stuff. Captain Dissolution, Oh

(02:00:18):
my god, I love love CaptainDisilusion. I love him to death.
Absolutely love him. He's an awesomeguy to his explanations, his persona,
his character, freaking awesome. Lovethat guy, all right. So I
think that's it for me. Ifyou guys are interested in any other paranormal

(02:00:40):
kind of more related shows, checkout the other shows on wlf E w
lf A dash dB radio network.That's the radio network online that I stream
to in addition to my own platforms, and they have a bunch of shows
on their different things, not justparanormal. I think they're branching out into
other stuff, so check them outtoo. Uh And then that's it.

(02:01:01):
That's it. I am done.I'm gonna figure out where my closing video
here is and then I will saythat again. Thank you. I appreciate
you guys. Thanks for all thetopics that you you gave me. Thanks
for all the conversations in the chatroom. You guys are awesome. And
enjoy the rest of your weekend.Be safe, stay safe, have fun,

(02:01:24):
and then never stop learning and I'llsee you next week.