June 22, 2023 • 48 mins
You can't believe how many Little Women fans I know and who have told me that the "Symposium" is their favorite part in Little Women! and guess what Symposium has never been adapted (not fully anyway). Christina and I of course love the symposium and were are here to talk about it. In Little Women, chapter "Friend" Jo enters a symposium with Friedrich. There is a philosophical debate about religion which agitates Jo a great deal but Friedrich becames her guiding light.
I swear to you, this has always been the moment in the book where I personally believe that Jo began to fall in love with him, even if she didn't realize it herself yet.
Join us to analyze this breathtakingly beautiful chapter.
I am joined by Christina Scott. Christina is the wonderful host of the https://www.tumblr.com/joandfriedrich blog
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I swear to you, this has always been the moment in the book where I personally believe that Jo began to fall in love with him, even if she didn't realize it herself yet.
Join us to analyze this breathtakingly beautiful chapter.
I am joined by Christina Scott. Christina is the wonderful host of the https://www.tumblr.com/joandfriedrich blog
Bookshop.org https://www.shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=1535322&u=3142084&m=97137
Start your own etsy shop and get your first 40 listings for free https://etsy.me/3oZe42c
Join newsletter https://littlewomenchannel.substack.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/podcastinglittlewomen
Twitter: https://twitter.com/littlewchannel
Tumblr https://www.tumblr.com/blog/littlewomenchannel TikTokhttps://www.tiktok.com/@littlewomenpodcast
YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/2p8kmsz6
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Mary, Meet everybody, and welcometo the Little Woman Podcast. The day's
common charrette goes to Melanie, wholeft this comment on a YouTube channel.
As for preferring Professor Bear to Laurieto coin a phrase, oh well,
thuh. He was an experienced manin all the right ways without being worldly
(00:23):
and superficial. He was a manof literature and philosophy who still practiced what
Luisa may Alcott called practical philosophy inhelping the weak and poor. Unlike her
lofty but impractical father who neglected hisduty to his own family in pursuit of
his own version of integrity, Jowas never going to fall in love in
(00:46):
a romantic way with a mere,unfledged boy, adobed them as brothers and
sons, et cetera, but notloved them romantically. She had to respect
a man to love him, andhe told Lorry as much. Friddick had
a deep personality, no service aboutit. He was authentic and authentically good
(01:10):
while still being unassuming. But hedid have a proper, and that is
to say, true self respect.It is so obvious to me that he
was everything that you admired and respected. It was an easy next step to
love him, the more so ashe loved her while never preserving or her
presuming. I can only retate thatI can completely understand having been in a
(01:36):
forty year marriage with a man withthose qualities. He has been dead almost
three years, and I know myutter half of myself is missing to this
day, I understand jose love forsuch a man completely, their partnership style
marriage as two people in complete sympathy, as far as their plans for the
(01:57):
future could mesh their priorities about whatreally mattered in life was meant to be.
Really, I just can't say enoughabout what seems so obvious to me.
It really surprises and perlexes made thatit's such an affron to so many.
Considering Louisa may Argot's at recent crushon Emerson and feelings about her owe
(02:23):
not to mention her love of Germanculture in its highest forms, How why
would she not fall in love withFrederick? And the only time we ever
see him become vehement, if notindignant, in his dealing with another person
was in a very good cause.When he saw at the symposium the sneering
(02:44):
attitude of a learned man at acertain Christian tenets. He saw Joe's confusion,
her puzzlement, and her unease atthis attack on one of the basic
foundations of her raising granted a formerChristianity in its transcendentalist version. Professor Bhaer,
besides arguing against this view solely onprinciple, seemed to know that Joe
(03:08):
needed something a lifeline, to keepfrom being drowned in so destroying doubt by
the sophistry she was hearing, andso I applaud Professor Behar for providing one
most eloquently and with sense and conviction. I really loved this podcast. I
can thank you enough for exploring thistopic and the argument for her preference for
(03:32):
FREDK. Behaer. I also feelthat the fact that he had too nephews
to bring to the equation must havebeen a point on his favor. Joe
would have been in her element helpingto raise two such boys. End quote.
This was such a nice comment andvery fitting for this episode for Christina
(03:55):
and I continued to dissect the chapterFriend, which is, in my humble
opinion, one of the most missadapted chapters in Little Woman films because for
some reason, in Little Woman movies, John Frederick argue about Jo's writing when
in the book that never happens,and it is weird that people use something
(04:21):
against Frederick that Louisa may Alcott neverwrote. I feel really bad about Louisa
may Alcott for Grega Gerwick abused herthis way. And I know Barbie is
a plastic doll, but I feelbad for her as well. I know
lots of Little Woman fans who areJoe and Fredrick fans, and they love,
love, love Little Woman and thischapter, Chapter Friend is their favorite
(04:46):
chapter in Little Woman because it includesthe symposium. And this is another scene
that is not adapted very often.When Joe lives in New York, she
enters to symposium with Fredrick at Inthis symposium, Joe is very eager to
meet all these famous people that shehas been admiring, only to see that
(05:12):
they are just regular folks. Thereis a debate between some of the young
philosophers and one of these men startsto talk about atheism, and this really
shatters Joe's world. Now, rememberthis book was written in the nineteenth century
by Louis my Alcott, who wasa Christian. She came from Transcendentalist movement,
(05:38):
and Transcendentalism was a Christian movement.Sometimes I like to wonder if this
was something that happened to her,if she experienced something like this, that
she went to a symposium and therewas some young, blazing eighties talking about
eighties views and maybe Henry David Terrellor what Emerson was speaking for religion,
(06:06):
and this was something that moved Louisa. There's a moment in the book when
the narrator writes that the moment whenFrederick speaks about his views and his fate,
that is a moment that Joe rememberedfor the rest of her life because
it was such an impactful, importantmoment for her. So I think we
(06:30):
can assume that this moment in thebook it does have some kind of pace
in reality, and it is justwonderful. And this is a Little Woman
podcast. Joe and Fredick entered thesymposium. When I was reading about this,
(07:00):
Frank Lesslie's Weekly Illustrated Newspaper and WeeklyVolcano is a caricature of this newspaper.
A lot of the things that Icame up with was that this newspaper
was it wasn't really a newspaper,but sensational publication, and it was very
popular because it liked to play withthese scory details about all these murders and
(07:25):
trials and whatnot. And then everytime and there was somebody who was like
a I don't know, maybe kidhis wife, and they were all these
horrible theaters about this person, andmost of the times those things were completely
made up. And that's the waya lot of stories are still sold today.
(07:46):
Like people at these details that arenot necessarily true, but they have
these sort of entertainment values, sothey just sell it. With extrast,
yeah, I like thinking about whatmakes the story sense of truth in it,
true emotions, true, but somethingthat feels even less if the story
(08:11):
is fantastical. We're just trying togive a good example, like well,
let's just say Harry Potter. Eventhough the world is fantastical, there is
still a sense of truth in itin the sense that we all have had
that feeling at some point in ourlives of feeling that you don't belong,
(08:31):
that feeling like maybe there is somethingdifferent in us, but in this world
we can find something that can makeus feel like we belong. So I
don't think that that any sort offantasy story or psychi or magical whatever is
(08:52):
bad as long as there is thissort of one true human thing that we
can connect too, because because that'sreally what fairy tales and fables go back
to, is that they were tohelp tell a moral or help to get
across this idea that would have madebetter sense in a fantastical way. It's
(09:20):
like how they say a musical theater, you could just say I love you,
but you can get the feeling outmore through a song, Like you
can truly get the understanding of theemotions better in the in how you sing
in and how these music is youknow when Again, sensationalism is just she
(09:43):
tries to put truth in it inthe sense of facts, but no no
heart, no characters that are likableor developed, that have an art,
and it can happen in short story. In fact, I've seen that happen.
That's not impossible. But she's definitelybeing stifled because it's what she's being
(10:07):
asked for and what she knows helpsto give her the money she needs to
help pay for her family. Thetarget audience is not ideal for Joe either,
does give the impression that these storiesare sold for maybe middle class people
in New York who are not veryliteral, and they just buy the stories
(10:31):
for a moment of thrill. Iwould imagine like, if there was some
kind of political debate or some kindof tragedy that happens, these kind of
magazines would write about them in verycoolerful ways and make money for themselves.
Right, Yeah, exploiting. Yeah, she was beginning to feel better than
(10:54):
see this for much. Describing ofother people's passions and feelings set her to
studying and speculating about her own,a morbid amusement in which healthy young minds,
to her voluntary indulge. Wrongdoing alwaysbrings its own punishment, and when
Joe almost needed hers, she gotit either know whether the study of Shakespeare
(11:16):
helped her to read character or thenatural instinct of a woman for what was
honest, brave and strong. Butwhile endowing her imaginary heroes with every perfection
under the sun, chose discovering alive hero who interested her in spite of
many human imperfections. Mister Bhaer,in one of their conversations, had advised
(11:39):
her to study seeing both true andlovely characters whenever she found them as good
training for a writer. Joe tookhim at his word, for she cool
returned around and studied him, aproceeding which would have much surprised him had
he known it. For the wordyprofessor was very humble in his own conceit.
(12:01):
Why everybody liked him was a puzzledJoe. At first. He was
neither rich or great, young orhandsome, in no respect what is called
fascinating, imposing, or brilliant.And yet he was attractive as a genie
of fire, and people seemed togather about him as naturally as about a
(12:22):
warm hurt he was born. Hehad always appeared to be giving something away,
a stranger that everyone was his friend. No longer young, but a
happy hearted as a boy playing anodd hat, his face looked beautiful to
many, and his oddities were freelyforgiven for his sake. Joe often watched
(12:43):
him, trying to discover the charm, and at last decided that it was
benevolence which worked a miracle. Ifhe had any sorrow. It sat with
its head under its wing, andhe turned only his sunnyside to the world.
There were lights upon his head,but time seemed to have touched him
gently, remembering how kind he wasto utters. The pleasant curves about his
(13:07):
mouth were the memorials of many friendlywords and cheery laughs. His eyes were
never cold or hard, and hisbig hand had a warm, strong grasp
that was more expressive than words.His very clothes seemed to partake of the
hospital nature of the wearer. Theylooked as if they were at ease and
(13:28):
liked to make him comfortable. Hisscapacious waistcoast was suggestive of a large heart
underneath. His rusty coat had asocial air, and the backy pockets plane
improved the little hands of the ventin empty and came out full. His
very boots were benevolent, and hiscolors never stiff and raspy like other people's.
(13:52):
You can tell that she wanted tohave his babies. Yeah, definitely
a very descriptive and not even justlike physically, just so much of his
character. And and this is Iguess one of the passage that really makes
me kind of think like, oh, Joe's a demi sexual, because she's
looking more character is And while thereis the topic like his hands and mouth,
(14:20):
it still has these, you know, very wonderful things about it,
you know, like the pleasant curvesabout his mouth were memorials that many friendly
words and cheery laughs. His bighand had a warm, strong graph that
was more expressive than where it's likeyou know, it's it's detail because and
(14:43):
it just gives you this very clearpicture, even though it's not like descriptive
in the same way of like tallwith dark hair and blue eyes and whatnot,
it gives you a much better senseof who he is as a person,
and that as you this much clearpicture of who he is and even
(15:05):
more so how Joe sees him,which is honestly, if someone described a
person, describe someone like that me, I'd be like, Wow, that's
a wonderful person. It sounds likehe'd be a great friend, or even
like, you know, let's justa great boyfriend husband. I can't imagine
anybody that reads this and goes,yeah, well, Preadrick's a jerk,
(15:28):
or I still don't like it,Like how could you not like a person
describer? Right? Yeah, shewas closing to him. This part where
it says that if he was attractiveas a genial fire that was always one
of my favorite parts in this entirenovel. This al and people think together
(15:50):
about him naturally as about a wombhurt. One of my favorite scenes in
a Woman. And when I wasdoing the research of the real life Fredricks
and I was reading this book aboutChas Fallen, who was one of the
real liferetics. He was a Germanimmigrant and he moved to America and then
(16:10):
he fell in love to Eliza Fallen, who was this American female writer.
So right away we have like Germanimmigrant and American female writer. He was
friends with Luisia me Algot's uncle,Samuel May this part he was attractive as
a genial fire. Eliza wrote thatto her journ all the day she met
(16:32):
Charles Follen, and Lucia my Algotread her memory of her husband when she
was like a teenager, So that'sdirectly from that book. It was so
funny to me because when I readthat, I realized, like one of
my third scenes in A Little Woman, it's actually written by Eliza Fallen about
her husband. It's not written byLouisa May Alcott. And that was so
(16:56):
funny to me. But then Iknow how much Louise allowed him my David
Tarrell, and there's something like thatshe wrote about him in her child.
Also, I think they're kind ofintertwine because I think when you are a
young person and you want to bein a relationship, and then you're reading
this book and there's this couple thatyou're shipping. Everything just sort of mixes
(17:19):
together. Amable woman. Then youtake from your own life, give life
to a story and something that reallyaffects you personally good or bad, you
use it and and honestly it's forme. I would try to sort of
immortalize the person I care about throughmy writing, because even though you know
(17:44):
I should say if someone God orwill be gone, their memory is going
to live on through this story.Like I just had it there through the
character that it wasn't a little womandifference story where it was based off of
like their like mom or someone thatthey was very close to, and and
(18:10):
I was like, well, thiswas their chance that like make it so
that they lived on forever. Andand it just makes me kind of happy,
like a bitter sweet thinking that again, when you follow the idea that
Joe is the avatar for movies andthe Alka and you know, three drink
(18:33):
is and we gave it grows andavatar, that they get to have their
happy ending, whereas Alca couldn't havethat with Gurrow. It's just nice to
know that they in some world,some version of life, they were able
to and and it just makes mesad, like when people don't know this
part of the story and they justgo like, well, who cares about
(18:59):
lower forever? And like if youknew the backstory, if you knew that
her confine it, you want togo, oh my God. Like I
love them even more so than JoeanMoore because there was so much thought and
heart suck into that relationship. Ilove the spot where critics show the Shakespeare
(19:22):
to help her to study character.And I think I think it was that
for a million Flag Catcher and Timberwho said that people say that Phebe stops
chose from Chosren writing, and thenin the book he gives her Shakespeare here
study character. Right, people don'tread the book, that's the that's the
(19:42):
problem. They don't read the bookthen criticize the films. I know,
it's it's just it really is oneof those times where and I will ever
try to, like truly force anyoneto be like, you have to read
the book before the movie come down, because I've not always done that.
And sometimes it's because I don't realizethat the movie is based off a book
(20:04):
either, but but I just dobecause I'm curious to know how different it
is from page to screen. Butthere's not really been I think the only
one I can really think of thattruly was hard how the novel was with
(20:26):
the BBC version of it, thenineteen seventy one, which is not really
one of my favorite adaptations of womenjust because some of the casting. I
was just like, really, butthat's another discussion. Yeah, most of
the time that these adaptations don't dolike that part justice and it does make
(20:48):
it go that you need to readthe book because it's so much better.
Like you know, they always saylike the book is better than the movie,
as I'm meant to say. It'sone of those views time where I
go like, well, yeah,there's there really is because it changed characters,
stories and and sometimes use it.Then go, well, you know
(21:11):
what that that change was necessary becauselike for the movie version of Water Prelevance,
have you ever seen that or readit? Well, I know it,
I haven't seen it. It's good. Then the movie they combine two
of the characters, but it makessense because it's like you mainly saw like
new the one and the other onewas just kind of like eating the husband
(21:36):
to be kind of like abusic becauseit's like at whatever, he's good at
what he does and the ringleader isnot so big that like you know,
but like in the movie they combinedthe husband with the ring leader that it
it makes sense because they almost werekind of like wanted the same, just
(21:59):
that one was married to this ericand the other one woman. So like
certain changes you're like, okay,I can't forgive and can get by or
sometimes changes happen because you know,back then when it was written, this
sort of thing was okay, butwe know nowadays that it isn't okay.
If we were supposed to see thisas like a strong again, let's just
(22:19):
say a female character. There's noway that a strong female character would have
done that. But it was writtenfor that time and now you can change
it for the movie. But like, there are just some things that I
go, it's non negotiable, Andthis is to me a non negotiable scene
(22:41):
or moment because it really tells alot about Joe with her writing and Joe's
relationship at that point. Again,Joe at this point has learned how to
control their temper well enough, soif it doesn't make sense for it.
It will grow up and get madand be what her pretty much by criticism
(23:02):
when she's that is what she's tryingto hope for is to be a mature
writer and accept criticism. So sorry, I can't sit here and believe Joe
again. I call this tack.I would ever say you are mean and
I just want to be here becauseyou didn't like my story. Like,
(23:23):
yeah, great character development, Garwick, great, I love it. It
was so weird and great here exceptthat Joe. But yet may Choe for
she doesn't want to change her growI'm like, you have no idea.
I never admire a Cho for beingimmature because I just see her immature in
(23:45):
the book. Glorie is the immatureone. How can you not see that?
I don't get her anyway. WhenI was reading this book for the
first time, I think this wasthe chapter I already started to root for
Cho and Frederick because there's this partwhere Joe she starts to have these mental
health problems because of these stories thatshe's writing. And I don't think that's
(24:11):
mentioned in any of these women movies. And I think that's one of the
reasons why people struggle to understand thischapter because we disgust she goes to do
this research or the mentally ill peopleand these criminals, and she goes to
(24:32):
like mental elysium or something doing researchon poisons. Luisam. She also wrote
trailers, and I like some ofthem. I don't think this is really
her specialty necessary, Like I knowthat I got a Christie. She was
specialized in poisons and stuff. Sheloved it, and she was really good
(24:53):
at writing thrillers. But I don'tthink this really necessary Louisa me Alcot's cup
of tea. I think she wasreally good at write trailers with like psychological
elements, but not necessarily is kindof something that miss Marble will do.
She starts to have these mental healthproblems and anxiety because she goes too deep
(25:18):
into this research. And I haveoften wondered was this something that Louis A.
Malcott experienced, because when I readher trailers, I don't think there
is that much of these kind ofthings that she writes here. And I
wonder, well, it's possible thatwhat happened to Joe happened to her,
because obviously at some point she stoppedwriting to this particular magazine and focused on
(25:45):
other things. Yea, and thatagain, if we're looking at a little
semi biography of her wife, Idon't think it's that far off the sability
of it. Sponsor of this episodeis Etsy. On Etsy, you can
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(26:08):
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Being are true, And I knowthat was some writers. They try to
(26:56):
do something there and not the greatestevents. So I'll stick with what I
know, and that's always fine.Like I mean pretty much. Stephen King
writes primarily horrors or or a sortof piece fantastical stories like I think of
them. Oh, I just readthis and called it's just no fella,
(27:22):
not explosions, escalation, I don'tknow. But it's not like a horror
story, but it is a sortof more fantastical kind of story. But
like if you know that's what you'regood at and you can do it,
then fine. Like I don't thinkI could really, ever truly write a
horror story because there's just something thatadmittedly will just like freak me out and
(27:45):
I'll stay up like just having likenightmares of it. I like horror movies,
but like there's um something that justlike and I don't care about that
because that's not my type of horrormovie. But like, yeah, I
like I just get freaked out witheven just reading about like certain things like
reading about Jaws. How maybe therewas a murder victim in Jaws. You
(28:10):
ever hear of that? Or no? For the short long of it is,
however, they say a woman wasfound murdered in I think July or
August of the year of Jaws cameout, and she's just been labeled as
a Jane Doe. Many many yearslater, you know, Stephen King's son
went to a screening of like thefourtieth anniversary of Jaws and seeing a woman
(28:33):
in the background who sort of fitthe description of this Jane Doe, and
the filming was done like around thattime, and they did say, well
we did get just ask random people, would you mind being a a background
character for the beach because all youhave to do is just be at the
beach. I was like, Ican't read any more of this at night.
(28:56):
It will keep me up because itis just one of those like freaky
coincidence. Maybe so and like somebodythat will keep me up. So I
could never write a horror story.And it's again we're looking at Little Women
as being a reflection of what happenedin real life. I'll take a candor
(29:18):
and say Alco couldn't stomach it either, and that's okay because she knew what
she was good at. And somewriters just make a niche of that they
know that the best of their worksis fantasy, or the best that they're
at is, you know, theromance novels. That's okay. There's always
(29:38):
something that we're all going to begood at. Can't always have your hand
in the cookie dark for every typeof cookie. But if you particularly are
a band of trop what's wrong withnothing that's it, said Joe to herself,
when she had length discovered that genuinegood wields were another score one fellow
(30:00):
man to beautifly and dignify even astout German professor who shoveled in his dinner,
darned his own sock and was burningwith the name of Bear. Joe
Valley's business highly. But she alsopossessed a most feminine respect for inflect and
a little discovery which she made aboutProfessor add as much to her regard friend,
(30:23):
he never spoke of himself, andno one ever knew that in his
native city he had been a manmuch honored and esteemed for learning and integrity.
The countryman came to see him,and in a conversation with Miss Norton,
divulged in the fact from her.Joe learned it, and like all
(30:44):
the better because mister Bear had notnever told about it. She felt proud
to know that he was an honoredprofessor in Herlin, though only a poor
left language master in America, andhis homely, hard working life was much
beaused by by the spice of romance, which this discovery gave it. Another
and better gift than intellect was showninto her in a most unexpected manner.
(31:10):
Miss Norton has the entree in entreeinto literary society, which Joe would have
had no chance of seeing. Butfor her. The solitary woman felt an
interest in the ambitious girl, andkindly conferred many figures of this sort,
both on Joe and the professor.She took them with her one night to
(31:32):
a select symposia Helen honor of severalcelebrities. Joe prepared to bow down and
endure the mighty ones, whom shehad worshiped with youthful enthusiasm afar off,
But her reverence Virginius received a thebeer shock that night, and it took
her some time to recover from thediscovery that the great patriots were only men
(31:53):
and women after all. I imagineher dismay on stealing a glance of amid
admiration at the poet whose line suggestedEthriel being fed upon spit fire, and
two the behold of devouring is sufferedwith an ardor which must which blushed his
intellectual countenance, turning as from afallen idol. She had made other discoveries
(32:19):
which rapidly dispelled for romantic allusions thegreat novelists vibrate between two decanters with the
regularity of a pendulum. The famousdivine gloded hopefully with one of the meta
stels of the age, who lookeddaggers at another corin who ambiously said sterrizing
(32:40):
her after out remembering her an effortto absorb. The profound philosopher who embed
a tea Johnson leaves and appeared toslumber the loquacency of the lady, rendering
speech impossible. The scientific celebrities forgetting their multicus and glacial period. It's
(33:00):
gossip about heart while devoting themselves tooysters and ices with terroristic energy. The
young musician, who was charming inthe city like the second Orpheist, talked
horses, and the specimen of theBritish nobility hasn't happened to be the most
ordinary man of the party. Beforethe evening was half over, Joe was
(33:22):
completely disillusions to illusinate, and asshe sat down in a corner to recover
herself, mister Back soon joined her, looking rather out of his elements,
and presently several of the Blossbergs,each mountain on his hobby became ammu ambling
up to hold and intellectual tournament haverecess. The conversation was miles beyond Joe's
(33:47):
comprehension, but she enjoyed it.Though content high wool were unknown gods,
the subjective and objective unintangible terms,and he only evolved from her inner consciousness
was a bad headache. After itsall over, it dawned upon her gradually
that the world was being picked piecesand put together on new and, according
(34:10):
to the talkers, on infinitely betterprinciples than war. That religion was a
fair way to be reasons into nothiness, and and sellect was only to be
the god. Joe knew nothing aboutphilosophy or metaphysics of any source, but
a curious excitement, half pleasurable,half painful came over her as she listened,
(34:36):
with a sense of being turned adrugged into time space like a young
room on a holiday. He lookedaround to see how the professor liked it,
and found him looking at her withthe gremis expression she had ever seen
him wear. He shook his headbeckoned her to come away, but she
was fascinated just then by the freedomof speculative philosophy and kept her seat,
(34:59):
trying to find out the wise gentlemanand tend to rely upon after they had
annihilated the old police. Now misterbear with the definite man, and so
to operate the own opinion, butbecause they were unsettled, but too sincere
and honest to be lightly spoken.As he glanced from Joe to several other
(35:20):
young people attracted by the brilliancy ofplastic trial technique, he met his black
brows and long to speak, fearingthat some implatible young soul would be led
astray by the rockets the fine whenthe display was over that they had an
empty stick or a score stand.I know lots of Tean Freedic fans,
(35:43):
and this scene about their distimposed isthe favorite, and I think it's quite
sad that it's not in any adaptationbecause it's a really good scene because I
think this shows how two and threeto have very senilar values. Yeah,
(36:07):
this part where they she describes theseother guests, I think it goes very
much along with this where she's nowstudying character. And the scene is good
too because it really shows like howdeeply for your beliefs and what he believes,
and as will get to it,sometimes he'll share what he truly believes
(36:32):
in as a definite man and soto offer his own opinion because he's choosing
Syrian artist to be luckily spoken,like, this is not a guy that
is paraus with his words or speakswithout a thought, like he is very
careful and puts much thought into whathe says. And and I feel like
(36:58):
it's a little bit more. Ever, well, when you see someone who
puts out an opinion or says somethingwhen they feel like it's a very even
if they are kind of nervous todo so, Like I knew someone that
too. Between us, she wouldsay whatever she felt because she felt comfortable
with me to say it, butwith other people, particularly with family,
(37:22):
she wouldn't feel the most comfortable tosay. And I'm like that it's okay,
Like you had an opinion, likeand she would say, wife's head,
don't agree with you. I thinkit was like like gay people deserve
rights too, And I know thattook a lot of guts her to do
it, but she felt it wasthe right thing to do because it wasn't.
(37:44):
She wasn't going to just stand thereand listen to them say these very
homophobic things when it's not not right. But yeah, I think losing the
scene is not only a shame tosee, like having John Fredricks my time
together, which to my knowledge sofar, I think only the two thousand
(38:08):
and seven seventeen Masterpiece Theater version evenmentions the nypoleum. All the other ones
do like an offer, which that'sfine too to the day is still something
that they get to do together andhave discussions of. But this offered I
think a really key insight into freeDrick's character, and that is a huge
(38:32):
loss really. I think in thenineteen ninety four film they tried to do
that with the conversation about transcendentalism.Yes, that's right, I'm gonna say
even the discussion of women's vote thatwas also that moment too. Yeah.
I like that it showed that there'sa little bit more than just the love
(38:54):
of art, that they can freelyopenly discuss politics and theories and philosophy,
which is pretty big when you canserre at the time. Because I just
think of another movie. It's calledGiant, and it has Elizabeth Taylor and
Rock Hudson and she's like from Ican't remember exactly whatever, she's more like
(39:17):
a Northerner and she marries him andhe's like, from Texas. This is
like setting like the nineteen twenties ortheir years or so. And she goes
over to sit and listen into aconversation of what the men are talking about,
which is like politics, and she'slike, why are you stopping?
Go ahead, I'm not disturbing,Like, but this is not something that
women discuss. This is men's stuff. And she's like, men's stuff.
(39:42):
Don't pull that on me. Andlisten, you knew what kind of woman
you were marrying, So I'm notgoing to change myself because of that,
because you have weird, old fashionedprejudice and it just makes me think of
that, like like I feel likeLorie would have been more like that,
even well, you know, that'snot something that ladies talk about. But
Free Drick is like, yeah,come, let's go. Let's go to
(40:06):
this symposium and talk about philosophy andtalk about you know, human rights and
all these things, because I amcurious to know what you think. Again,
it's just it's one of those littledetails I feel like he's missing that
says a lot of Free Drich's characterand how he viewsed Joe, because this
(40:30):
fully fledged woman with boxx opinions ratherthan Laurie, who was just like just
be just be the so the wifeI I you know, don't bry don't
don't scribble about you know, youdon't have to think about anything. I'll
just I'll take care of you likea pretty little doll. And it's a
good contrast I feel in terms ofpersonalities that I feel like it's often lacking
(40:58):
in many adaptation. And I thinkshe says somewhere here the narrator that Joe
had huge respect for intellect, andit's once again like Laurie doesn't really have
that intellectual listen that Fredick has.So Joe doesn't really She's not on the
(41:19):
same level with Laurie intellectually, actuallyhas this intellectual craving. She wants to
learn new things all the time.And I have a huge respect for Fredick
here because he's basically in this roomfilled with atheists and then the birds out
and defense religion. I'm not avery religious person, but I still like
(41:45):
this because when this book was written, I'd say most Americans were very religious
and it was looked down upon ifyou weren't, and then becausties are use
my albut her philosophy came from Germany. A lot of these thoughts on eighties
(42:06):
and they came from Germany. Soit's interesting how Fredic is this German Man
who defends religion but trans fallen theguy who I mentioned earlier, he was
a priest, he studied theology,and he was a preacher. I can
definitely see how we have this Germanvery religious man. They're sort of standing
(42:29):
up against these new ideas. Ineed to make a whole episode about them
because he's really interesting. But Ilike all these real life radics, how
they come alive here. Yeah,and I like it too, like his
defense of religion again, like youare not like overly religious, but I
like the fact that he puts outthe argument or anyone that probably feels the
(42:53):
same, either reaven religion or someonethat thinks certain things can go together.
Like like I remember reading a thingwhere someone's like, well, yes i'm
gay, but and I'm Christian,Like that's and they were like I hate
when people try to just assume thatbull with your data must be your atheist
because it doesn't religion say food togays. And he's like, oh,
(43:17):
why that's not true, but reallyand proper translations doesn't say that, but
why can't I be both? Solike, why can't someone have all philosophy
but still have a faith in God? Like I had a science teacher who
was Roman an Italian Roman Catholic,and he was like anything like the first
(43:44):
day of school, he was like, you see this, he pulled out
his rosaryes like this, I believeand but once I walk into the statroom,
science is what matters. Like hewas like, I believe that it
can be both. I believe inevolution, but I also believe in God.
They're not mutually. You can believein both, and I am open
for a discussion of both things.He was really cool. He was like
(44:06):
in the nineties, but he wasHe was so cool and he was so
lively. Yeah, I think thatagain he shows a lot of free Drick's
character and his willingness to speak upand talk about trying to put out the
discussion for religion because at that pointnobody was making the argument. It was
(44:29):
just like, it's kind of likewhen someone's talking smack about another person and
that person isn't there to defend them, and everybody's just going to believe that
person is bad. But is thatreally fair? When that person isn't there
to defend Themselve I like that bothtrying to give religion a fighting chance because
(44:50):
to some to many people, theybelieve in it. So it shows his
fairness and his ability to stand isBrown, which very copy of it.
But yeah, I think that ifthere was just some version of it done
(45:12):
in any film. Again, theclosest I feel like we got from that
is the ninety four version where thereis this more lengthy discussion of transcendentalism and
the women's vote where he stops menfrom talking to let Joe talk about what
it really is like for a womanto want to vote. Well, while
(45:35):
all these men are talking about whatdoes a woman feel about vote, Well,
there's a woman right there. SoI feel like more versions could have
stand to have a little bit moreof of that in their version. And
I've heard some people saying that it'sdifficult to adapt because they speak about religion
and that's like, no, notopic. I'm like, well, we
(45:57):
know that this book takes place innineteen entry, and we know that it
was something alcoplus Christian, So Idon't see that as a problem when we
know that there's a historical context.So that if somebody is a Christian,
it shouldn't offend people. And evenif you did it, like let's just
say a modern day, it canstill work because again, it's just the
(46:22):
defending of religion. It didn't sayspecifically defending of Christianity that Christians are better
than Muslims or do or anything.It's just I could see a modern free
drink being like, why would youtake away in someone's faith if that is
what helps them get through or don'twe all at some point go oh,
thank you God, and after somethinghappens or I feel like they can work
(46:45):
it in a way that still wouldfeel relevant because religion still is relevant.
And again I could see free drinkmaking the iron man. There's nothing wrong
with meaningful and philosophy and religion,but you can't sit here and say religion
is dead or you're stupid if youbelieve in a god, because there are
(47:06):
many things that happen in this worldthat we didn't think could happen. Let's
just say internet once the idea duringthe time of the book in Or that
would have seemed silly and beyond ridiculous, but we have it now, so
or the thought of aliens, thepossibility of life outside of the human world,
(47:27):
Is it really that crazy? LikeI could say, you're genuinely think
of a way in a modern perspective, Bridger could still make that argument and
still feel very genuine and very modern. And it's still I feel like Garnish
for a respect because it is ultimatelywhat he's defending is the people of people's
(47:51):
right to believe in what they wantto believe, and just they're not stupid
for wanting to leave in a highersomething. It takes a lot of gods
to speak your mind in this kindof situation where this young man, they
seemed quite hostile, and it saysthat the atmosphere was very sort of exciting
(48:14):
and intense. I can imagine thatsome of these people want to fight and
argue here and be it physical.So it takes a lot of gods to
speak your mind. Thank you somuch for listening. They can make your
choice as bye.
Mary, Meet everybody, and welcometo the Little Woman Podcast. The day's
common charrette goes to Melanie, wholeft this comment on a YouTube channel.
As for preferring Professor Bear to Laurieto coin a phrase, oh well,
thuh. He was an experienced manin all the right ways without being worldly
(00:23):
and superficial. He was a manof literature and philosophy who still practiced what
Luisa may Alcott called practical philosophy inhelping the weak and poor. Unlike her
lofty but impractical father who neglected hisduty to his own family in pursuit of
his own version of integrity, Jowas never going to fall in love in
(00:46):
a romantic way with a mere,unfledged boy, adobed them as brothers and
sons, et cetera, but notloved them romantically. She had to respect
a man to love him, andhe told Lorry as much. Friddick had
a deep personality, no service aboutit. He was authentic and authentically good
(01:10):
while still being unassuming. But hedid have a proper, and that is
to say, true self respect.It is so obvious to me that he
was everything that you admired and respected. It was an easy next step to
love him, the more so ashe loved her while never preserving or her
presuming. I can only retate thatI can completely understand having been in a
(01:36):
forty year marriage with a man withthose qualities. He has been dead almost
three years, and I know myutter half of myself is missing to this
day, I understand jose love forsuch a man completely, their partnership style
marriage as two people in complete sympathy, as far as their plans for the
(01:57):
future could mesh their priorities about whatreally mattered in life was meant to be.
Really, I just can't say enoughabout what seems so obvious to me.
It really surprises and perlexes made thatit's such an affron to so many.
Considering Louisa may Argot's at recent crushon Emerson and feelings about her owe
(02:23):
not to mention her love of Germanculture in its highest forms, How why
would she not fall in love withFrederick? And the only time we ever
see him become vehement, if notindignant, in his dealing with another person
was in a very good cause.When he saw at the symposium the sneering
(02:44):
attitude of a learned man at acertain Christian tenets. He saw Joe's confusion,
her puzzlement, and her unease atthis attack on one of the basic
foundations of her raising granted a formerChristianity in its transcendentalist version. Professor Bhaer,
besides arguing against this view solely onprinciple, seemed to know that Joe
(03:08):
needed something a lifeline, to keepfrom being drowned in so destroying doubt by
the sophistry she was hearing, andso I applaud Professor Behar for providing one
most eloquently and with sense and conviction. I really loved this podcast. I
can thank you enough for exploring thistopic and the argument for her preference for
(03:32):
FREDK. Behaer. I also feelthat the fact that he had too nephews
to bring to the equation must havebeen a point on his favor. Joe
would have been in her element helpingto raise two such boys. End quote.
This was such a nice comment andvery fitting for this episode for Christina
(03:55):
and I continued to dissect the chapterFriend, which is, in my humble
opinion, one of the most missadapted chapters in Little Woman films because for
some reason, in Little Woman movies, John Frederick argue about Jo's writing when
in the book that never happens,and it is weird that people use something
(04:21):
against Frederick that Louisa may Alcott neverwrote. I feel really bad about Louisa
may Alcott for Grega Gerwick abused herthis way. And I know Barbie is
a plastic doll, but I feelbad for her as well. I know
lots of Little Woman fans who areJoe and Fredrick fans, and they love,
love, love Little Woman and thischapter, Chapter Friend is their favorite
(04:46):
chapter in Little Woman because it includesthe symposium. And this is another scene
that is not adapted very often.When Joe lives in New York, she
enters to symposium with Fredrick at Inthis symposium, Joe is very eager to
meet all these famous people that shehas been admiring, only to see that
(05:12):
they are just regular folks. Thereis a debate between some of the young
philosophers and one of these men startsto talk about atheism, and this really
shatters Joe's world. Now, rememberthis book was written in the nineteenth century
by Louis my Alcott, who wasa Christian. She came from Transcendentalist movement,
(05:38):
and Transcendentalism was a Christian movement.Sometimes I like to wonder if this
was something that happened to her,if she experienced something like this, that
she went to a symposium and therewas some young, blazing eighties talking about
eighties views and maybe Henry David Terrellor what Emerson was speaking for religion,
(06:06):
and this was something that moved Louisa. There's a moment in the book when
the narrator writes that the moment whenFrederick speaks about his views and his fate,
that is a moment that Joe rememberedfor the rest of her life because
it was such an impactful, importantmoment for her. So I think we
(06:30):
can assume that this moment in thebook it does have some kind of pace
in reality, and it is justwonderful. And this is a Little Woman
podcast. Joe and Fredick entered thesymposium. When I was reading about this,
(07:00):
Frank Lesslie's Weekly Illustrated Newspaper and WeeklyVolcano is a caricature of this newspaper.
A lot of the things that Icame up with was that this newspaper
was it wasn't really a newspaper,but sensational publication, and it was very
popular because it liked to play withthese scory details about all these murders and
(07:25):
trials and whatnot. And then everytime and there was somebody who was like
a I don't know, maybe kidhis wife, and they were all these
horrible theaters about this person, andmost of the times those things were completely
made up. And that's the waya lot of stories are still sold today.
(07:46):
Like people at these details that arenot necessarily true, but they have
these sort of entertainment values, sothey just sell it. With extrast,
yeah, I like thinking about whatmakes the story sense of truth in it,
true emotions, true, but somethingthat feels even less if the story
(08:11):
is fantastical. We're just trying togive a good example, like well,
let's just say Harry Potter. Eventhough the world is fantastical, there is
still a sense of truth in itin the sense that we all have had
that feeling at some point in ourlives of feeling that you don't belong,
(08:31):
that feeling like maybe there is somethingdifferent in us, but in this world
we can find something that can makeus feel like we belong. So I
don't think that that any sort offantasy story or psychi or magical whatever is
(08:52):
bad as long as there is thissort of one true human thing that we
can connect too, because because that'sreally what fairy tales and fables go back
to, is that they were tohelp tell a moral or help to get
across this idea that would have madebetter sense in a fantastical way. It's
(09:20):
like how they say a musical theater, you could just say I love you,
but you can get the feeling outmore through a song, Like you
can truly get the understanding of theemotions better in the in how you sing
in and how these music is youknow when Again, sensationalism is just she
(09:43):
tries to put truth in it inthe sense of facts, but no no
heart, no characters that are likableor developed, that have an art,
and it can happen in short story. In fact, I've seen that happen.
That's not impossible. But she's definitelybeing stifled because it's what she's being
(10:07):
asked for and what she knows helpsto give her the money she needs to
help pay for her family. Thetarget audience is not ideal for Joe either,
does give the impression that these storiesare sold for maybe middle class people
in New York who are not veryliteral, and they just buy the stories
(10:31):
for a moment of thrill. Iwould imagine like, if there was some
kind of political debate or some kindof tragedy that happens, these kind of
magazines would write about them in verycoolerful ways and make money for themselves.
Right, Yeah, exploiting. Yeah, she was beginning to feel better than
(10:54):
see this for much. Describing ofother people's passions and feelings set her to
studying and speculating about her own,a morbid amusement in which healthy young minds,
to her voluntary indulge. Wrongdoing alwaysbrings its own punishment, and when
Joe almost needed hers, she gotit either know whether the study of Shakespeare
(11:16):
helped her to read character or thenatural instinct of a woman for what was
honest, brave and strong. Butwhile endowing her imaginary heroes with every perfection
under the sun, chose discovering alive hero who interested her in spite of
many human imperfections. Mister Bhaer,in one of their conversations, had advised
(11:39):
her to study seeing both true andlovely characters whenever she found them as good
training for a writer. Joe tookhim at his word, for she cool
returned around and studied him, aproceeding which would have much surprised him had
he known it. For the wordyprofessor was very humble in his own conceit.
(12:01):
Why everybody liked him was a puzzledJoe. At first. He was
neither rich or great, young orhandsome, in no respect what is called
fascinating, imposing, or brilliant.And yet he was attractive as a genie
of fire, and people seemed togather about him as naturally as about a
(12:22):
warm hurt he was born. Hehad always appeared to be giving something away,
a stranger that everyone was his friend. No longer young, but a
happy hearted as a boy playing anodd hat, his face looked beautiful to
many, and his oddities were freelyforgiven for his sake. Joe often watched
(12:43):
him, trying to discover the charm, and at last decided that it was
benevolence which worked a miracle. Ifhe had any sorrow. It sat with
its head under its wing, andhe turned only his sunnyside to the world.
There were lights upon his head,but time seemed to have touched him
gently, remembering how kind he wasto utters. The pleasant curves about his
(13:07):
mouth were the memorials of many friendlywords and cheery laughs. His eyes were
never cold or hard, and hisbig hand had a warm, strong grasp
that was more expressive than words.His very clothes seemed to partake of the
hospital nature of the wearer. Theylooked as if they were at ease and
(13:28):
liked to make him comfortable. Hisscapacious waistcoast was suggestive of a large heart
underneath. His rusty coat had asocial air, and the backy pockets plane
improved the little hands of the ventin empty and came out full. His
very boots were benevolent, and hiscolors never stiff and raspy like other people's.
(13:52):
You can tell that she wanted tohave his babies. Yeah, definitely
a very descriptive and not even justlike physically, just so much of his
character. And and this is Iguess one of the passage that really makes
me kind of think like, oh, Joe's a demi sexual, because she's
looking more character is And while thereis the topic like his hands and mouth,
(14:20):
it still has these, you know, very wonderful things about it,
you know, like the pleasant curvesabout his mouth were memorials that many friendly
words and cheery laughs. His bighand had a warm, strong graph that
was more expressive than where it's likeyou know, it's it's detail because and
(14:43):
it just gives you this very clearpicture, even though it's not like descriptive
in the same way of like tallwith dark hair and blue eyes and whatnot,
it gives you a much better senseof who he is as a person,
and that as you this much clearpicture of who he is and even
(15:05):
more so how Joe sees him,which is honestly, if someone described a
person, describe someone like that me, I'd be like, Wow, that's
a wonderful person. It sounds likehe'd be a great friend, or even
like, you know, let's justa great boyfriend husband. I can't imagine
anybody that reads this and goes,yeah, well, Preadrick's a jerk,
(15:28):
or I still don't like it,Like how could you not like a person
describer? Right? Yeah, shewas closing to him. This part where
it says that if he was attractiveas a genial fire that was always one
of my favorite parts in this entirenovel. This al and people think together
(15:50):
about him naturally as about a wombhurt. One of my favorite scenes in
a Woman. And when I wasdoing the research of the real life Fredricks
and I was reading this book aboutChas Fallen, who was one of the
real liferetics. He was a Germanimmigrant and he moved to America and then
(16:10):
he fell in love to Eliza Fallen, who was this American female writer.
So right away we have like Germanimmigrant and American female writer. He was
friends with Luisia me Algot's uncle,Samuel May this part he was attractive as
a genial fire. Eliza wrote thatto her journ all the day she met
(16:32):
Charles Follen, and Lucia my Algotread her memory of her husband when she
was like a teenager, So that'sdirectly from that book. It was so
funny to me because when I readthat, I realized, like one of
my third scenes in A Little Woman, it's actually written by Eliza Fallen about
her husband. It's not written byLouisa May Alcott. And that was so
(16:56):
funny to me. But then Iknow how much Louise allowed him my David
Tarrell, and there's something like thatshe wrote about him in her child.
Also, I think they're kind ofintertwine because I think when you are a
young person and you want to bein a relationship, and then you're reading
this book and there's this couple thatyou're shipping. Everything just sort of mixes
(17:19):
together. Amable woman. Then youtake from your own life, give life
to a story and something that reallyaffects you personally good or bad, you
use it and and honestly it's forme. I would try to sort of
immortalize the person I care about throughmy writing, because even though you know
(17:44):
I should say if someone God orwill be gone, their memory is going
to live on through this story.Like I just had it there through the
character that it wasn't a little womandifference story where it was based off of
like their like mom or someone thatthey was very close to, and and
(18:10):
I was like, well, thiswas their chance that like make it so
that they lived on forever. Andand it just makes me kind of happy,
like a bitter sweet thinking that again, when you follow the idea that
Joe is the avatar for movies andthe Alka and you know, three drink
(18:33):
is and we gave it grows andavatar, that they get to have their
happy ending, whereas Alca couldn't havethat with Gurrow. It's just nice to
know that they in some world,some version of life, they were able
to and and it just makes mesad, like when people don't know this
part of the story and they justgo like, well, who cares about
(18:59):
lower forever? And like if youknew the backstory, if you knew that
her confine it, you want togo, oh my God. Like I
love them even more so than JoeanMoore because there was so much thought and
heart suck into that relationship. Ilove the spot where critics show the Shakespeare
(19:22):
to help her to study character.And I think I think it was that
for a million Flag Catcher and Timberwho said that people say that Phebe stops
chose from Chosren writing, and thenin the book he gives her Shakespeare here
study character. Right, people don'tread the book, that's the that's the
(19:42):
problem. They don't read the bookthen criticize the films. I know,
it's it's just it really is oneof those times where and I will ever
try to, like truly force anyoneto be like, you have to read
the book before the movie come down, because I've not always done that.
And sometimes it's because I don't realizethat the movie is based off a book
(20:04):
either, but but I just dobecause I'm curious to know how different it
is from page to screen. Butthere's not really been I think the only
one I can really think of thattruly was hard how the novel was with
(20:26):
the BBC version of it, thenineteen seventy one, which is not really
one of my favorite adaptations of womenjust because some of the casting. I
was just like, really, butthat's another discussion. Yeah, most of
the time that these adaptations don't dolike that part justice and it does make
(20:48):
it go that you need to readthe book because it's so much better.
Like you know, they always saylike the book is better than the movie,
as I'm meant to say. It'sone of those views time where I
go like, well, yeah,there's there really is because it changed characters,
stories and and sometimes use it.Then go, well, you know
(21:11):
what that that change was necessary becauselike for the movie version of Water Prelevance,
have you ever seen that or readit? Well, I know it,
I haven't seen it. It's good. Then the movie they combine two
of the characters, but it makessense because it's like you mainly saw like
new the one and the other onewas just kind of like eating the husband
(21:36):
to be kind of like abusic becauseit's like at whatever, he's good at
what he does and the ringleader isnot so big that like you know,
but like in the movie they combinedthe husband with the ring leader that it
it makes sense because they almost werekind of like wanted the same, just
(21:59):
that one was married to this ericand the other one woman. So like
certain changes you're like, okay,I can't forgive and can get by or
sometimes changes happen because you know,back then when it was written, this
sort of thing was okay, butwe know nowadays that it isn't okay.
If we were supposed to see thisas like a strong again, let's just
(22:19):
say a female character. There's noway that a strong female character would have
done that. But it was writtenfor that time and now you can change
it for the movie. But like, there are just some things that I
go, it's non negotiable, Andthis is to me a non negotiable scene
(22:41):
or moment because it really tells alot about Joe with her writing and Joe's
relationship at that point. Again,Joe at this point has learned how to
control their temper well enough, soif it doesn't make sense for it.
It will grow up and get madand be what her pretty much by criticism
(23:02):
when she's that is what she's tryingto hope for is to be a mature
writer and accept criticism. So sorry, I can't sit here and believe Joe
again. I call this tack.I would ever say you are mean and
I just want to be here becauseyou didn't like my story. Like,
(23:23):
yeah, great character development, Garwick, great, I love it. It
was so weird and great here exceptthat Joe. But yet may Choe for
she doesn't want to change her growI'm like, you have no idea.
I never admire a Cho for beingimmature because I just see her immature in
(23:45):
the book. Glorie is the immatureone. How can you not see that?
I don't get her anyway. WhenI was reading this book for the
first time, I think this wasthe chapter I already started to root for
Cho and Frederick because there's this partwhere Joe she starts to have these mental
health problems because of these stories thatshe's writing. And I don't think that's
(24:11):
mentioned in any of these women movies. And I think that's one of the
reasons why people struggle to understand thischapter because we disgust she goes to do
this research or the mentally ill peopleand these criminals, and she goes to
(24:32):
like mental elysium or something doing researchon poisons. Luisam. She also wrote
trailers, and I like some ofthem. I don't think this is really
her specialty necessary, Like I knowthat I got a Christie. She was
specialized in poisons and stuff. Sheloved it, and she was really good
(24:53):
at writing thrillers. But I don'tthink this really necessary Louisa me Alcot's cup
of tea. I think she wasreally good at write trailers with like psychological
elements, but not necessarily is kindof something that miss Marble will do.
She starts to have these mental healthproblems and anxiety because she goes too deep
(25:18):
into this research. And I haveoften wondered was this something that Louis A.
Malcott experienced, because when I readher trailers, I don't think there
is that much of these kind ofthings that she writes here. And I
wonder, well, it's possible thatwhat happened to Joe happened to her,
because obviously at some point she stoppedwriting to this particular magazine and focused on
(25:45):
other things. Yea, and thatagain, if we're looking at a little
semi biography of her wife, Idon't think it's that far off the sability
of it. Sponsor of this episodeis Etsy. On Etsy, you can
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Being are true, And I knowthat was some writers. They try to
(26:56):
do something there and not the greatestevents. So I'll stick with what I
know, and that's always fine.Like I mean pretty much. Stephen King
writes primarily horrors or or a sortof piece fantastical stories like I think of
them. Oh, I just readthis and called it's just no fella,
(27:22):
not explosions, escalation, I don'tknow. But it's not like a horror
story, but it is a sortof more fantastical kind of story. But
like if you know that's what you'regood at and you can do it,
then fine. Like I don't thinkI could really, ever truly write a
horror story because there's just something thatadmittedly will just like freak me out and
(27:45):
I'll stay up like just having likenightmares of it. I like horror movies,
but like there's um something that justlike and I don't care about that
because that's not my type of horrormovie. But like, yeah, I
like I just get freaked out witheven just reading about like certain things like
reading about Jaws. How maybe therewas a murder victim in Jaws. You
(28:10):
ever hear of that? Or no? For the short long of it is,
however, they say a woman wasfound murdered in I think July or
August of the year of Jaws cameout, and she's just been labeled as
a Jane Doe. Many many yearslater, you know, Stephen King's son
went to a screening of like thefourtieth anniversary of Jaws and seeing a woman
(28:33):
in the background who sort of fitthe description of this Jane Doe, and
the filming was done like around thattime, and they did say, well
we did get just ask random people, would you mind being a a background
character for the beach because all youhave to do is just be at the
beach. I was like, Ican't read any more of this at night.
(28:56):
It will keep me up because itis just one of those like freaky
coincidence. Maybe so and like somebodythat will keep me up. So I
could never write a horror story.And it's again we're looking at Little Women
as being a reflection of what happenedin real life. I'll take a candor
(29:18):
and say Alco couldn't stomach it either, and that's okay because she knew what
she was good at. And somewriters just make a niche of that they
know that the best of their worksis fantasy, or the best that they're
at is, you know, theromance novels. That's okay. There's always
(29:38):
something that we're all going to begood at. Can't always have your hand
in the cookie dark for every typeof cookie. But if you particularly are
a band of trop what's wrong withnothing that's it, said Joe to herself,
when she had length discovered that genuinegood wields were another score one fellow
(30:00):
man to beautifly and dignify even astout German professor who shoveled in his dinner,
darned his own sock and was burningwith the name of Bear. Joe
Valley's business highly. But she alsopossessed a most feminine respect for inflect and
a little discovery which she made aboutProfessor add as much to her regard friend,
(30:23):
he never spoke of himself, andno one ever knew that in his
native city he had been a manmuch honored and esteemed for learning and integrity.
The countryman came to see him,and in a conversation with Miss Norton,
divulged in the fact from her.Joe learned it, and like all
(30:44):
the better because mister Bear had notnever told about it. She felt proud
to know that he was an honoredprofessor in Herlin, though only a poor
left language master in America, andhis homely, hard working life was much
beaused by by the spice of romance, which this discovery gave it. Another
and better gift than intellect was showninto her in a most unexpected manner.
(31:10):
Miss Norton has the entree in entreeinto literary society, which Joe would have
had no chance of seeing. Butfor her. The solitary woman felt an
interest in the ambitious girl, andkindly conferred many figures of this sort,
both on Joe and the professor.She took them with her one night to
(31:32):
a select symposia Helen honor of severalcelebrities. Joe prepared to bow down and
endure the mighty ones, whom shehad worshiped with youthful enthusiasm afar off,
But her reverence Virginius received a thebeer shock that night, and it took
her some time to recover from thediscovery that the great patriots were only men
(31:53):
and women after all. I imagineher dismay on stealing a glance of amid
admiration at the poet whose line suggestedEthriel being fed upon spit fire, and
two the behold of devouring is sufferedwith an ardor which must which blushed his
intellectual countenance, turning as from afallen idol. She had made other discoveries
(32:19):
which rapidly dispelled for romantic allusions thegreat novelists vibrate between two decanters with the
regularity of a pendulum. The famousdivine gloded hopefully with one of the meta
stels of the age, who lookeddaggers at another corin who ambiously said sterrizing
(32:40):
her after out remembering her an effortto absorb. The profound philosopher who embed
a tea Johnson leaves and appeared toslumber the loquacency of the lady, rendering
speech impossible. The scientific celebrities forgetting their multicus and glacial period. It's
(33:00):
gossip about heart while devoting themselves tooysters and ices with terroristic energy. The
young musician, who was charming inthe city like the second Orpheist, talked
horses, and the specimen of theBritish nobility hasn't happened to be the most
ordinary man of the party. Beforethe evening was half over, Joe was
(33:22):
completely disillusions to illusinate, and asshe sat down in a corner to recover
herself, mister Back soon joined her, looking rather out of his elements,
and presently several of the Blossbergs,each mountain on his hobby became ammu ambling
up to hold and intellectual tournament haverecess. The conversation was miles beyond Joe's
(33:47):
comprehension, but she enjoyed it.Though content high wool were unknown gods,
the subjective and objective unintangible terms,and he only evolved from her inner consciousness
was a bad headache. After itsall over, it dawned upon her gradually
that the world was being picked piecesand put together on new and, according
(34:10):
to the talkers, on infinitely betterprinciples than war. That religion was a
fair way to be reasons into nothiness, and and sellect was only to be
the god. Joe knew nothing aboutphilosophy or metaphysics of any source, but
a curious excitement, half pleasurable,half painful came over her as she listened,
(34:36):
with a sense of being turned adrugged into time space like a young
room on a holiday. He lookedaround to see how the professor liked it,
and found him looking at her withthe gremis expression she had ever seen
him wear. He shook his headbeckoned her to come away, but she
was fascinated just then by the freedomof speculative philosophy and kept her seat,
(34:59):
trying to find out the wise gentlemanand tend to rely upon after they had
annihilated the old police. Now misterbear with the definite man, and so
to operate the own opinion, butbecause they were unsettled, but too sincere
and honest to be lightly spoken.As he glanced from Joe to several other
(35:20):
young people attracted by the brilliancy ofplastic trial technique, he met his black
brows and long to speak, fearingthat some implatible young soul would be led
astray by the rockets the fine whenthe display was over that they had an
empty stick or a score stand.I know lots of Tean Freedic fans,
(35:43):
and this scene about their distimposed isthe favorite, and I think it's quite
sad that it's not in any adaptationbecause it's a really good scene because I
think this shows how two and threeto have very senilar values. Yeah,
(36:07):
this part where they she describes theseother guests, I think it goes very
much along with this where she's nowstudying character. And the scene is good
too because it really shows like howdeeply for your beliefs and what he believes,
and as will get to it,sometimes he'll share what he truly believes
(36:32):
in as a definite man and soto offer his own opinion because he's choosing
Syrian artist to be luckily spoken,like, this is not a guy that
is paraus with his words or speakswithout a thought, like he is very
careful and puts much thought into whathe says. And and I feel like
(36:58):
it's a little bit more. Ever, well, when you see someone who
puts out an opinion or says somethingwhen they feel like it's a very even
if they are kind of nervous todo so, Like I knew someone that
too. Between us, she wouldsay whatever she felt because she felt comfortable
with me to say it, butwith other people, particularly with family,
(37:22):
she wouldn't feel the most comfortable tosay. And I'm like that it's okay,
Like you had an opinion, likeand she would say, wife's head,
don't agree with you. I thinkit was like like gay people deserve
rights too, And I know thattook a lot of guts her to do
it, but she felt it wasthe right thing to do because it wasn't.
(37:44):
She wasn't going to just stand thereand listen to them say these very
homophobic things when it's not not right. But yeah, I think losing the
scene is not only a shame tosee, like having John Fredricks my time
together, which to my knowledge sofar, I think only the two thousand
(38:08):
and seven seventeen Masterpiece Theater version evenmentions the nypoleum. All the other ones
do like an offer, which that'sfine too to the day is still something
that they get to do together andhave discussions of. But this offered I
think a really key insight into freeDrick's character, and that is a huge
(38:32):
loss really. I think in thenineteen ninety four film they tried to do
that with the conversation about transcendentalism.Yes, that's right, I'm gonna say
even the discussion of women's vote thatwas also that moment too. Yeah.
I like that it showed that there'sa little bit more than just the love
(38:54):
of art, that they can freelyopenly discuss politics and theories and philosophy,
which is pretty big when you canserre at the time. Because I just
think of another movie. It's calledGiant, and it has Elizabeth Taylor and
Rock Hudson and she's like from Ican't remember exactly whatever, she's more like
(39:17):
a Northerner and she marries him andhe's like, from Texas. This is
like setting like the nineteen twenties ortheir years or so. And she goes
over to sit and listen into aconversation of what the men are talking about,
which is like politics, and she'slike, why are you stopping?
Go ahead, I'm not disturbing,Like, but this is not something that
women discuss. This is men's stuff. And she's like, men's stuff.
(39:42):
Don't pull that on me. Andlisten, you knew what kind of woman
you were marrying, So I'm notgoing to change myself because of that,
because you have weird, old fashionedprejudice and it just makes me think of
that, like like I feel likeLorie would have been more like that,
even well, you know, that'snot something that ladies talk about. But
Free Drick is like, yeah,come, let's go. Let's go to
(40:06):
this symposium and talk about philosophy andtalk about you know, human rights and
all these things, because I amcurious to know what you think. Again,
it's just it's one of those littledetails I feel like he's missing that
says a lot of Free Drich's characterand how he viewsed Joe, because this
(40:30):
fully fledged woman with boxx opinions ratherthan Laurie, who was just like just
be just be the so the wifeI I you know, don't bry don't
don't scribble about you know, youdon't have to think about anything. I'll
just I'll take care of you likea pretty little doll. And it's a
good contrast I feel in terms ofpersonalities that I feel like it's often lacking
(40:58):
in many adaptation. And I thinkshe says somewhere here the narrator that Joe
had huge respect for intellect, andit's once again like Laurie doesn't really have
that intellectual listen that Fredick has.So Joe doesn't really She's not on the
(41:19):
same level with Laurie intellectually, actuallyhas this intellectual craving. She wants to
learn new things all the time.And I have a huge respect for Fredick
here because he's basically in this roomfilled with atheists and then the birds out
and defense religion. I'm not avery religious person, but I still like
(41:45):
this because when this book was written, I'd say most Americans were very religious
and it was looked down upon ifyou weren't, and then becausties are use
my albut her philosophy came from Germany. A lot of these thoughts on eighties
(42:06):
and they came from Germany. Soit's interesting how Fredic is this German Man
who defends religion but trans fallen theguy who I mentioned earlier, he was
a priest, he studied theology,and he was a preacher. I can
definitely see how we have this Germanvery religious man. They're sort of standing
(42:29):
up against these new ideas. Ineed to make a whole episode about them
because he's really interesting. But Ilike all these real life radics, how
they come alive here. Yeah,and I like it too, like his
defense of religion again, like youare not like overly religious, but I
like the fact that he puts outthe argument or anyone that probably feels the
(42:53):
same, either reaven religion or someonethat thinks certain things can go together.
Like like I remember reading a thingwhere someone's like, well, yes i'm
gay, but and I'm Christian,Like that's and they were like I hate
when people try to just assume thatbull with your data must be your atheist
because it doesn't religion say food togays. And he's like, oh,
(43:17):
why that's not true, but reallyand proper translations doesn't say that, but
why can't I be both? Solike, why can't someone have all philosophy
but still have a faith in God? Like I had a science teacher who
was Roman an Italian Roman Catholic,and he was like anything like the first
(43:44):
day of school, he was like, you see this, he pulled out
his rosaryes like this, I believeand but once I walk into the statroom,
science is what matters. Like hewas like, I believe that it
can be both. I believe inevolution, but I also believe in God.
They're not mutually. You can believein both, and I am open
for a discussion of both things.He was really cool. He was like
(44:06):
in the nineties, but he wasHe was so cool and he was so
lively. Yeah, I think thatagain he shows a lot of free Drick's
character and his willingness to speak upand talk about trying to put out the
discussion for religion because at that pointnobody was making the argument. It was
(44:29):
just like, it's kind of likewhen someone's talking smack about another person and
that person isn't there to defend them, and everybody's just going to believe that
person is bad. But is thatreally fair? When that person isn't there
to defend Themselve I like that bothtrying to give religion a fighting chance because
(44:50):
to some to many people, theybelieve in it. So it shows his
fairness and his ability to stand isBrown, which very copy of it.
But yeah, I think that ifthere was just some version of it done
(45:12):
in any film. Again, theclosest I feel like we got from that
is the ninety four version where thereis this more lengthy discussion of transcendentalism and
the women's vote where he stops menfrom talking to let Joe talk about what
it really is like for a womanto want to vote. Well, while
(45:35):
all these men are talking about whatdoes a woman feel about vote, Well,
there's a woman right there. SoI feel like more versions could have
stand to have a little bit moreof of that in their version. And
I've heard some people saying that it'sdifficult to adapt because they speak about religion
and that's like, no, notopic. I'm like, well, we
(45:57):
know that this book takes place innineteen entry, and we know that it
was something alcoplus Christian, So Idon't see that as a problem when we
know that there's a historical context.So that if somebody is a Christian,
it shouldn't offend people. And evenif you did it, like let's just
say a modern day, it canstill work because again, it's just the
(46:22):
defending of religion. It didn't sayspecifically defending of Christianity that Christians are better
than Muslims or do or anything.It's just I could see a modern free
drink being like, why would youtake away in someone's faith if that is
what helps them get through or don'twe all at some point go oh,
thank you God, and after somethinghappens or I feel like they can work
(46:45):
it in a way that still wouldfeel relevant because religion still is relevant.
And again I could see free drinkmaking the iron man. There's nothing wrong
with meaningful and philosophy and religion,but you can't sit here and say religion
is dead or you're stupid if youbelieve in a god, because there are
(47:06):
many things that happen in this worldthat we didn't think could happen. Let's
just say internet once the idea duringthe time of the book in Or that
would have seemed silly and beyond ridiculous, but we have it now, so
or the thought of aliens, thepossibility of life outside of the human world,
(47:27):
Is it really that crazy? LikeI could say, you're genuinely think
of a way in a modern perspective, Bridger could still make that argument and
still feel very genuine and very modern. And it's still I feel like Garnish
for a respect because it is ultimatelywhat he's defending is the people of people's
(47:51):
right to believe in what they wantto believe, and just they're not stupid
for wanting to leave in a highersomething. It takes a lot of gods
to speak your mind in this kindof situation where this young man, they
seemed quite hostile, and it saysthat the atmosphere was very sort of exciting
(48:14):
and intense. I can imagine thatsome of these people want to fight and
argue here and be it physical.So it takes a lot of gods to
speak your mind. Thank you somuch for listening. They can make your
choice as bye.
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