Religious Landscape Of Little Men (With Annabelle)

This time Annabelle and myself are discussing about religion in Louisa May Alcott's novels and counting all the transcendentalist references in chapter "Sunday". Transcanscentalism was a nature-centric form of Christianity. A philosophy that Alcott practiced her entire life. In Little Men Nat sees a beautiful painting of Jesus and children. The frame is made of moss and pine cones, which intrigues him.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello everybody, and welcome to theLittle Woman Podcast. In this episode,
Annabelle and I continue dissecting the chapterSunday from Louisa May Alcott's Little Man.
Little Man appeared about ten years afterthe release of A Little Woman, but
Little Man is not just about littlemen. It tells about the life in

(00:23):
Plumfield, how Joe and Fredick rantheir school, and how they worked together
as a couple and raise their children. One of the things that we have
talked about in this podcast is theway Joe loves being a mom and how
she loves to take care of others, both children and adults, and this
is something that was very natural toLouisa. I want to read a little

(00:48):
sequence from aunt Ka Philip's essay quotefun Forever, Toys, games and play
in Louisa My Alcott's Little Woman.Quote In her journals and letters, Alcot
demonstrates an enthusiasm for play and afamiliarity with particular kinds of entertainment, similar
to toes of other well known nineteenthcentury authors such as Edward Everett Hale and

(01:15):
William d Owles. These authors enjoyedplay and there are all three played in
similar ways. Despite economic geographical andgender differences. Each described playing circus or
managery games. Each contributed to theatricalsand family newspapers. Algod's journal entries from

(01:38):
as early as eighteen forty three,when she would have been ten or eleven
years old, suggest that for her, amusement stemmed from making doll clothes or
playing outside, among other activities.In one offsided entry, alked notes,

(01:59):
I had a lovely time in thewoods with Anna and Lizzie. We were
fairies and made gowns and paper wings. I fled the highest of all.
Both A Little Women and Little Menwere very important books, not just within
American culture, but they had veryprofound effect in the entire world because the

(02:21):
nineteenth century was the first time whenchildhood became more of a solid concept.
Before that, people didn't pay thatmuch attention to charge development and child psychology.
All of that started in the nineteenthcentury, and that is also why
we see such a rapid growth inthe children's book publishing industry. This was

(02:45):
the time when Peter Pan, TomSawyer, and And of Green Gables.
All of these very popular books werepublished. Jose and Frederic School is not
the most usual. It is vastlydifferent, and in this chapter Joe even
talks about how their school diverges fromother institutes. If we think about it,

(03:08):
Blumfield is really partly a boarding schooland partly an orphan house orphanage.
They have students there who are orphansand who don't have parents, like nat
who is one of the main characters. It is actually Laurie and older mister
Lawrence who sponsored these orphan boys,which is actually really nice. Then they

(03:32):
also have students who come from familiesthat are more established, who can afford
to send their child into a boardingschool. At least when I have read
Little Men, I don't see thatmuch differences in the way these students treat
each other based on their family backgrounds. But I don't think very wealthy families

(03:53):
would send their child there. Whoknows. I am pretty sure that Amy's
and Laurie's daughter, Little Best,was taught by Uncle Fritz. I have
come across people who don't think thatLittle Woman is a Christian novel. I
don't really agree with that, butI think the confusion too many comes from

(04:14):
the way Little Woman represents Christianity.Because there are really only two chapters where
religion is brought up in more clearway, and those our chapter Friend from
Little Woman, where Joe and Fredericgo to the symposium and Fredrick defense the
importance of religion. And perhaps youare like me and you think that that

(04:38):
is the chapter when Joe falls inlove with him, that there is chapter
Sunday from Little Men that we areabout to discuss. In these two chapters,
we clearly have religious teams. Wehave clearly religious teams, but in
general, the religion in Little Womanis more seen in the ba use and

(05:00):
the morals that the characters have.For example, in the March family,
mother is a social worker and fatheris a priest. Both parents have careers
that are very much related to humanitarianwork, and the children are brought up
to respect that. And nobody inthe family drinks, they don't smoke,

(05:21):
they don't use vulgar language, andthey can be very strict in certain things.
Joe, for example, doesn't likethat when Laurie plays billiards, and
when Amy chows to Europe, shesays to her mother that she is going
to be proper and she's not goingto flirt with young men. Religious teams

(05:42):
are there, but they are verynuanced. It is more seen in the
lifestyle of the characters rather than themspeaking about religion all the time. I
am from Finland, which is avery seculiar country. I was baptized as
Lutarian, but my family isn't veryreligious. From my mother's side, my

(06:03):
grandparents were more like hardcore Eightist,and then on the other hand, my
paternal grandmother was very religious. Mygrandmother was born as Gerty. She came
from a movement called Gertilizius. Finlandhas its own Bible Belt and we actually

(06:23):
have lots of evangelical Pietist groups here. But I always thought that this particular
group was very interesting because in thenineteenth century they were only allowed to wear
black and dark clothes. Women hadto keep their hair in a bun or
wear a hat, and men theyhad to wear a jacket which had Sweedish

(06:45):
name of the jacket is called scuta, so that's where the Finnish name came
from. And they did not approvemusic or anything that was too modern.
This group still exists, but theyhave a different name now and they are
very modern. They accept music atall. But around this time when my
grandmother was growing up and was achild and growing up there. I think

(07:10):
that they were more like a Finnishversion of the Amish in America, because
most of them were farmers and itwas very popular church in the countryside.
There was a bit of Finnish religioushistory for you. My grandmother she never
talked to me about her faith orreligion because these girty people, they believed

(07:32):
that your fate was only to beshared between yourself and God, and trying
to convert others would contaminate the faith, which a very interesting concept and completely
opposite to people like Jehovah's Witnesses orother similar groups. I might have mentioned
this to Annabelle in this episode.Why I have always liked a Little Woman

(07:57):
is that the religion is never puteight in a preachy way, which can
put people off a lot of times, and my grandmother did have something in
common this idea that your faith isbetween you and what it is that you
believe in. I hope you enjoyedthis episode. If you want some amazing

(08:18):
Little Woman podcast merchandise, head overto Society sixth dot com slash Little Woman
Podcast. This is a Little Womanpodcast. Discovering the religious landscape of Louisa
may Alcott's Little Man. I thinkthere's actually quite a few references to Brother

(08:52):
Screaming Little Man, because I thinkin some other chapter Day mentioned rather scream
fairy tale. Well, I thinkI found something about Harry and Lucy.
Okay. It's a book by MariaEdgewards and it was first published in eighteen
thirteen th eighteen fourteen. Okay.The full title coins is this website called

(09:16):
the Hawk Life Project. It saysHarry and Lucy by Maria Edgewards, from
the early lessons, to which areadded it is a little dog trustee,
the cherry orchard and the orangemen,and with front piece. And then yet
that doesn't really help much, butI mean it's better than nothing. Maybe

(09:39):
if we check out the altar,maybe we can find something. It's interesting
how many literal references you can findfrom these books. Yes, Louisa,
my uncle. She always writes aboutthese books that she has read herself,
or things that were popular in heryouth or been she was writing these stories.

(10:01):
There are so many of them,it's uncanny. Some of them like
the only reason we could find it. Other of them aren't really read anymore.
Like some of these are very wellknown, like Seeing Bad and Arabian
nights. But then, like Rolandand Maybird, I had never heard that,

(10:24):
and I have read lots of brotherSpring fairy tales. It's possible that
it's not in these collections that arepublished nowadays, but maybe it was in
the collections that were published in nineteencentury America. Yeah, and I also
like how Joe and frig are alwaystalking about books when they are to get
there. It's a big part oftheir relationship, how they discussed about literature

(10:48):
and stuff like that. Yeah.The light of the shaded lamp that burned
in the nursery shone softly on apicture hanging at the food of Naspa.
There were several others on the walls, but the boy thought there must be
something peculiar about this one, forit had a graceful frame of mass and

(11:09):
cones about it, and on alittle brackett underneath stood a base of wild
flowers freshly gathered from the spring woods. It was the most beautiful picture of
them all, and Nat lay lookingat it, dimly, feeling what it
meant, and wishing he knew allabout it. That is my picture,
said little voice in the room.Nat popped up his head and there was

(11:33):
Demi in his nightgown, pausing onhis way back from Anjo's chamber, whiter
he had gone to get for acut finger. What is he doing to
the children? Asked Nat. Thatis Christ the good Man, and he
is blessing the children. Don't youknow about him? Said Demi, wondering

(11:54):
not much, but I'd like toknow. He looks so kind, answered
Nat. I know all about it, and I like it very much because
it is true, said Demi,who told you my grandpa he knows everything
and thus the best toies in theworld. I used to play with these
big books and make bridges and railroadsand houses when I was a little boy,

(12:18):
began Demi. How old are younow, asked Nat respectfully. Most
then you know a lot of things, don't you. Yes, you see,
my head is pretty big, andGrandpa says it will take a good
deal to feel it. So Ikeep putting pieces of wisdom into it as
fast as I can't, return Demi. In his quaiet way, Nat laughed

(12:41):
and then said, soberly, tellher please, this is a very adorable
See I know this is one ofthe parts. I would always breathe that
high school whenever I check spoke outI can't explain why it's so comforting,
and I'm not even particularly religious myself, although I like the part, like

(13:07):
where the picture the frames with likemoths and cones. I don't know why.
It justs like more of the nature, more of the transitus nature.
Yeah, I was just thinking aboutthat, Like if I would see a
very religious picture, I would notnecessarily go and look at it, But

(13:28):
if it has this kind of interestingframe with pine cones and moss, that
might be more interesting to me.Or maybe the combination of the two would
be something I would be curious about. There's a vase of white flower specially
gathered from the spring woods. Thismakes it sound like it is almost like

(13:52):
a sacred altar where you just goand quiet down and pray or meditate or
whatever. There an institute. Ifeel like doing something very beautiful about this
whole scene. Hell On saith Andthen Demi gladly told him without pause or
punctuation. I found a very prettybook one day. I wanted to play

(14:15):
with it, but Grandpa said Imustn't. And she told me the pictures
and told me about them, andI liked the stories very much, all
about Joseph and his dad, brothersand the frogs. It came about of
the sea, and dear little ofthis in the water, and ever so
many more lovely ones. But Iliked to found the good man best of
all. And Grandpa told me somany times. I learned it by heart,

(14:37):
and he gave me his pictures,so I shouldn't forget. You know,
was put up here once I wassick, and I left him for
other sick boys to see what makeshim lest the children, asked Nat,
but found something very attractive, andthe chief figure fear of the group because
he loved them. Were they poorchildren, asked Nat wistfully. Yeah,
yes, I think so. Yousee some of them got hardly any clothes

(15:01):
on, and the mothers don't looklike rich lady. He liked four people
and was very good to them.He made them well and helped them and
told rich people they must not becrossed them, and they loved him dearly,
dearly, cried Nat with enthusiasm.Was he rich? Oh No,
He was born in a barn,and he was so poor. He had

(15:22):
to any home to live in whenhe grew up, and nothing to eat
sometimes, but what people gave him. And he went around preaching to everybody
and trying to make them good tillthe bad men killed him. What four?
And Nat sat up in his bedto look at them, and so
interested was he in the man whocared for the four so much. I'll
tell you all about it, AuntJoe won't mine. And then he settled

(15:43):
himself on the opposite bed, gladto tell his favorite stories. He's so
good a listener. Is so cute, really cute. I feel like see
this whole scene in my head.How it plays it kind of reminds me
of the one chapter in Anna ThreeGables where she visits the new creature and

(16:06):
his wife, and then she findsif it's not the same picture, it's
a very similar one. And sherelates to the one little child in the
bath, and then she asked thepreacher's wife that he's going to bless her
too, and then the preachers wifesaid, yes, I believe he will.

(16:27):
I don't remember that scene, butI think I want to read and
the Gables now. Can I specificallyremember it from it's a classic? Yeah.
Also, like during this time,this age, there was this sort
of idea that children, especially withthe Transcendentalist, they had this idea that

(16:52):
children were pure and angelic children areboard this world spear beings. So I
do wonder how much of this cityis based on those ideas. I am
a little It's funny because sometimes Iwas a bit frustrated with kind of Green
Gables, because sometimes I felt thatthe religious teams were a bit bushy.

(17:17):
I grew up in a very eightiesthousehold. But then when I read Little
Men and like the entire Little Womanbook series, I never felt the same.
With Little Women. It's it's interesting, but I feel like losing my
outputs views on religion is it's morelike origion is something that comes from inside

(17:40):
and not from the outside. Somaybe that's why I never really had issues
with religion or Christianity and Little Womanlike I may have had with some matter
books that were written around this timeperiod. It's not like a priest preaching
about religion or anything. It's avery subtle way to tell the reader what's

(18:03):
going on, because it is,damn me. It's a little boy who
tells Nat about Jesus and his teachings, or like Frilig, he's telling about
God's garden and he references he andJoe raising their children. It's a very
interesting area to study with Silcot's Field'sviews on religion and Christianity. I remember

(18:30):
reading once that her father was beingaccused of being a Buddhist. When you
think about Transcendentalism, it tasked sortof Buddhist wife. Sometimes they put lots
of emphasis on on nature, meditationand stuff like that. It is interesting.
But when she saw what was goingon, she looked away again.

(18:52):
I want to listen there staying withthe kind baseball bady, come and see
a pretty sight. It's not listeningwith all his heart to Demi telling the
story of the Christ Child like alittle white angel. He is this fair
had meant to go talk with Nata moment before he slept, for she
had found a serious word spoken atthis time. Off he did much good.

(19:17):
But when she stole away to thenursery door and saw Nat eagerly drinking
in the words of his little friends. While Demi told this we even following
story as this assent had been taughtto him, speaking softly as he sat
with his beautiful eyes fixed on thetender face above of them. Her own
filled with tears, and she wentsilently away, thinking to herself, DEMI

(19:38):
is unconsciously helping the poor boy betterthan I can. I will not spoil
it by a single word. Themurmur of the childish voice went on for
a long time, as one innocent, hard preach that had great sermon to
another, and no one hushed itwhen it ceased at last, and missus
Fair went to take away the lamp. Demi was gone, and that fastest
sleeping, lying with his face towardsthe picture as if she had already learned

(20:02):
and to love the good man wholoves little children and was a Facebook friends
support. The boy's face was veryclassid, and as she looked at it,
she felt that a single day ofKaren Kid had done so much.
A year of patient cultivation would surelybrings a grateful harvest from this neglected garden,
which was already sown with the bestof all. See by the little

(20:26):
missionary in the nightcap. This wasadorable. I think you have an uncut
version of Little Man because I thinkmine has like some sentences missing. Yeah,
my copy is from nineteen fifty eight. I bought this from London,
so it's like a British version.Yeah, I think mine's American. Can

(20:49):
I do with California? Yeah,you'll probably have some extraordinary I don't have.
I have an uncut version of LittleWoman, but like Little Man and
Joe's Boys, I have this shortenedversions. But we still managed to do

(21:10):
this pretty well. I have thisFinnish copy of Joe's Boys, and it
has entire chapters missing. It's aninteresting read. I was really surprised because
when I read the English version,I was like, this has a lot
more making out since than in theFinnish version. I am obsessed with the

(21:33):
making out since people keep asking meabout them. But it's true. There
is a lot of making out sinslittle Woman, you know. Yeah,
and it's good for us readers whoshe came in couples. This was the
reading of chapter Sunday this one day, and yet a lot of things happened

(21:56):
nat he was introduced to the inPomfield. He's all new friends, and
he's well almost like adopted parents.Well, this is fun. I hope
you can come back against some othertime and we can read more Little Women.
I hope so too. Is thereanything you want to say about this

(22:19):
chapter? Honestly, like with chapterslike this, and kind of it kind
of sucks that Little Men or Joe'svoice hasn't really had any as much adaptation.
I mean, I know there's theanime adaptation, but apparently there's also
one from Canada from the nineties.Yeah, is dead for some reason,

(22:42):
and it's like, well, I'mout, I've heard about that, but
I don't think I want to watchit. There is a Disney movie also
from the nineties of Little Men,which is an interesting version because it doesn't
have Amy and Lorie and John andMeg are millionaires. Yeah, but it

(23:06):
does have a good German Frederic,and it had a very good German France,
and we spoke with German accents,so that's something that I really liked.
But it was also kind of weirdbecause you had NAT's character and I
think he had crushed on Nan inthat version and not do Daisy, So

(23:27):
that was pretty weird because I'm aNat and Daisy shipper. Other than that,
it's actually not that bad version.It also had a blonde Joe that
was pretty weird. Well, it'snot like the worst adaptation that I have
seen, but there's not that manyLittle Man adaptations made in general, which

(23:53):
is a shame because this is agood book and I don't think it would
necessarily work as a movie, butmaybe as a series. Yeah, I
think you're right, Like it wouldhave to be like an episodic series,
and then it could focus on differentcharacters in each episode. And because the
book it doesn't really have one consistentplot, it's very episodic the way The

(24:18):
Little Man is written. Not totalk about animates so much, but I
think the anime adaptation is probably themost baseball from what I've seen, although
it does focus more on Nat,but like, everybody gets their time to
shine at least in a couple episodes, and I think that anime does have

(24:38):
that Nat and Daisy romance as well. Oh it does. There is one
episode where they have a pretend wedding. I have seen a couple episodes of
it, but I haven't seen thewhole anime. It is on my list,

(24:59):
but you know, based on theepisodes that I have seen, I
think it's pretty loyal to the book. There's also an episode where Joe learns
to write a bike because the mayormade Dan cry and she steals free.
Then she steals first dance and hedoesn't even bother stopping her. I think
somebody mentioned that on tumbril how Joelikes to wear it exclose sometimes, which

(25:26):
is a very chill type of thingto do. It's kind of cute.
But yeah, I think the wholeserious has been fansom into English. I
think so, which is how Iwas able to watch it because this series
has not been. But the weirdthing is in the previous anime, which

(25:51):
I hope, which I know,Waka Crismona Gutari, which is the first
little woman anime don't find on animationmore Tales of Little Women. If you
watched in English, John's name ischanged to Carl. In the original Japanese
version, he's back to John isthe English dub by the way, but

(26:12):
for some reason in the sequel anime, his name goes back to being John
with no explanation whatsoever. Interesting.I remember they had to write a round
that is the English dub by sayingCarl was his settle name and he couldn't
remember his first date because he wasso flustered for writing to make which is

(26:38):
kind of bitch actually kind of cutenow that I think about it. Yeah,
anyway, it's pretty good little mananyway. Yeah, it is also
I like how they get Also,I like how they gave prin to Beard.
I know, yeah, animation beard, but I like it. Oh,

(27:02):
I love it. It's not inthis book, but in Joe's Boys,
when Dan comes visit Plumfield, hehas grown a beard, and then
Joe is like, you look sogood in a beard, very masculine,
Like Joe really had a thing forbeards people. Yeah, I think it's

(27:23):
like a couple of chapters ahead.In Little Man there's this moment where Joe
says like she liked very masculine man, and then she kind of calls Nat
and Lorias daughters or girling. They'reso skinny, A very interesting detail.

(27:44):
Lori and Nat they are pretty similarcharacters. They air poth orphans. They
are pot musicians. Lorie plays thepiano, Nat plays the violin, and
they both like music. And theyboth marry girl who are actually pretty similar
because Amy and Daisy. They areabout these girls who are very self conscious

(28:07):
and very productive, and then theymake their boyfriends to be more productive.
This is a plot point that somethingalgocuses a lot much. Well, it
was nice to have you here andtalk about a Little Man. I enjoyed

(28:29):
being here. Really contact the podcastagain too. Yeah, definitely like,
I haven't touch little Man that muchyet in this podcast, so it is
nice to have a little Man expert. I feel like I need to always
explain to the listeners more about littleMan because it is not so known as

(28:52):
a Little Woman and it's not thatmuch adapted. But I do hope that
with this podcast Nade more people becomemore aware that there are sequels too The
Old Woman, and they are justas good, and some people consider them
even better. It was on apodcast, never been on a podcast before,

(29:14):
exciting. It's nice to have youhere. It was nice to be
here. Thank you for coming.You're welcome. I will talk to you
soon again. So we have beentalking two hours and thirty four minutes.
Thank you so much for listening.They can make good choices. Bye.