Sept. 27/25 - UFO’S & GOVERNMENT : What’s The Connection? w/ Tom Whitmore

Tonight We Talk MJ-12, Government Obfuscation in the UFO Story & More !!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to space Out Radio, that after hours radio show with
me your host, mister Rob G. Tonight. It's gonna be
a fantastic show. We have UFO researcher Majestic twelve researcher
Tom Whitmore joining us ours one and two. Fantastic conversation
I'm predicting is on the way. Also we'll have him
for hours one and two. And also Steve Stockton tells

(00:22):
and told mister personal mysteries, UFO weird News and more
under underline more for our three. We appreciate everybody coming
on in and joining us as we get ready to
start the show. We're gonna do it right about now.

(00:49):
Go reading, Space travelers, Welcome home. You've just tuned your
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(01:09):
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(01:29):
dot com with the options the endless. You can stay
today with the asker, our news wire, you can get
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out to the man. You're here, right there, mister Ron
Bummas a thought in o oh so much more. We
are gonna have a fantastic show tonight. We have Majeston
twelve and UFO researcher Tom Whitmore joining us for hours.

(01:49):
Wanting to I anticipate a great conversation. Been looking forward
to speaking to him for a while. We also have
Steve Stoctor Tells and Told miss in person mysteries for
our three along with UFO weird News and then maybe
a surprise or two. So you want to make sure
you stay right here, you don't go anywhere as we
get ready to jump right on into the show and

(02:12):
bring in the man of the hour, none other than
mister Tom Witmore. Hello, Tom, how are you this evening?

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Rob Ge, Good to see it, sir, Glad to be here.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Man.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Yeah, it's You're one of those names that I had
on my list that I had to make sure that
we did this. Uh. We met a couple of years
back at the Spaced Out Radio event in Reno. We
met in person and you had some really great words
that night that I'll always remember the things that we
talked about, and it was just a special time. Met

(02:49):
a lot of great people, Dave Scott, Courtney, Marcosoni, Ms,
Catherine Jones, Grand Tavius, Max, the list, long list of people,
but you were definitely one of the ones that stood
out and we had to do this. So definitely glad
to have you here. And I just as with any
show that we do here, especially first time interview, I'd

(03:10):
like to treat it as if this is the first
time anyone has seen you, and would like to start
out with what led you down the windy road to UFOs.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It all started when I was twelve years old and
I was at a friend's house and I saw a
book by Donald Kehoe on the bookshelf, Flying Saucers Serious
Business or Flying Saucer's Top Secret. And I guess I
have what I call the gullibility factor, but I started
reading those books and I immediately became a believer. And

(03:48):
you know, going to high school on college and all
that I really wasn't active in the UFO field, but
I did note when UFO news came out, and back
in the those days it was newspapers and television and
when we didn't hear anything about UFOs. And then in
the nineteen eighties, I had been doing a lot of

(04:12):
reading about the Soviet Union and about the KGB and
all of their espionage and counter espionage, and I became
very interested in intelligence and espionage and so forth. And
then I happened to turn on the TV just when

(04:33):
UFO Cover Up Live show came on in nineteen eighty eight,
and I saw the computer graphics of the aliens and
all that, and you know, I was immediately intrigued with it.
And again that's part of my own personal gullibility factor
that I have to take into consideration. But I decided

(04:57):
to start reading up on the UFO field, did quite
a bit of reading, and absorbed it quickly, and around
nineteen ninety or so I became active in the UFO field.
The executive director of Moufon at the time was Walt Andres.
He was the founder and he lived in Sageen, Texas,

(05:21):
which is just a few miles from San Antonio. Where
I was living at the time, and he would come
over to San Antonio and attend the meetings, and I
got a state director or a field Investigator's card. I
passed the Field Investigators exam. I was a state Section

(05:42):
director for a while and after a few years, mister
Andrews asked me to serve on the board. So I
came on the moufon board around nineteen ninety five and
I was on there until just a couple of years
ago when I retired from it. So I've been through
all of the move on executive directors. And at the

(06:09):
same time, I was married and we had a child,
raising a family, and I had a day job, very
big day job, and I kept up with the UFO
field and especially MJ twelve as I had extra time.
And then I was able to retire in twenty nineteen,

(06:31):
and as of December of January of this year, I'm
completely totally retired now. My interest in intelligence work coincided
with my interest in the UFO field with the MJ
twelve documents. And when I saw the MJ twelve documents

(06:54):
the first time, I immediately thought that it had something
to do with an intelligence agency. I thought that it
probably arose from an intelligence agency, and the reason for
that is that producing documents and phony documents and questionable
documents is the stock and trade of intelligence agencies, and

(07:15):
the MJ twelve documents, interesting as they were, came under
immediate scrutiny by the skeptics, and it did start a
trend in UFO people receiving receiving questionable documents, because when

(07:38):
Bill Moore and Jamie Chanderray received the Eisenhower Briefing document
and the Truman Forestall Memo, they also discovered the Keller
Twining Memorandum at the National Archives. And then Bill Moore
had received a couple of other documents along the way.

(07:58):
And then in the nineteen nineties the so called Some
som one one manual appeared anonymously, and then a whole
tranch of documents arrived on Timothy Cooper's doorstep under several iterations.

(08:20):
So a few years later Robert Collins, who was condor
in the UFO Cover Up Life program, came out with
his book. And then as late as twenty seventeen, another
document appeared by Heather Wade, and it appeared on the Internet.

(08:42):
I referred to it as the Ultra top secret document.
And then there's also a fellow that's in jail, which
is I know that sounds funny, but he claims that
he was being recruited by AFOSCI and he had been
given a lot of information, including mentions of MJ twelve.

(09:04):
So this phenomenon of documents appearing and being dangled into
the UFO community started in the eighties and it's basically
going on up to the present day.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Wow. And I've looked into MJ twelve somewhat. I know
a little bit about it. I know there'll be people
coming in who may be tuning in first time who
have no clue what MJ twelve is. Would you be
able to kind of explain it, kind of base level
explain it for someone new to the subject, Okay.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
In nineteen forty seven, there was the what is now
a well known Roswell incident in July nineteen forty seven,
and there was actually a newspaper story in Roswell, New
Mexico that stated that a flying saucer had been recovered,

(09:58):
and then the next they came out with a retraction
and said that it was only a weather balloon, and
that pretty much buried the story for thirty years. In
the late eighties, William Moore and his co author Charles Burlitz,
well as actually William Moore and Stan Friedman, began investigating

(10:25):
the Roswell case and they interviewed a lot of people,
over one hundred people, and they became convinced that something
happened and that it was probably extraterrestrial. Now, at that time,
William Moore was trying to make a living as an author.
He had authored a book called The Philadelphia Experiment with

(10:48):
Charles Burlitz, and he also authored a book with Charles
Burlitz called the Roswell Incident. So during the nineteen eighties
he began to get in involved with the Air Force
Office of Special Investigations on Kirkland Air Force Base and
his main contact was Richard Dody. And what happened was

(11:12):
a citizen by the name of Paul Benowitz who lived
directly adjacent to Kirkland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico,
and his business Thunder Scientific, was right outside the gate
at Kirkland Air Force Base. Well, this gentleman, Paul Benowitz,

(11:34):
was taking photographs in films of lights that he was
seeing over Kirkland and he was also picking up electronic signals. Now,
Paul Benowitz was a knowledgeable technical person. He had a
technical business and he was a contractor to the government.

(11:55):
But he was also he was more than a UFO believer.
He had really gone way out in his beliefs, and
he approached the Air Force to try to tell them
that UFOs were flying over Kirtland. And after the Air
Force authorities on Kirkland Air Force Base found out about this,

(12:19):
they decided to run a deception operation against Paul Benowitz.
Now William Moore during that time served as an informer.
He agreed to inform on Benowitz and to inform on
other UFO individuals, investigators and on UFO groups, and he

(12:41):
did most of that with Richard Doty. And the deal
was the reason why he did that, or he says
he did it was he was basically promised quote unquote
inside information about what the government knew about UFOs. So
a couple of very interesting documents rose during that time.

(13:03):
But in nineteen eighty four, William Moore's William Moore's research partner,
Jamie Schanderray found an envelope on his doorstep and it
was almost like a Russian Babouska. There was a larger
envelope and then a smaller envelope, and then a smaller

(13:25):
envelope inside that which contained a canister of thirty five
millimeter film. So he took it to Bill Moore and
they had the film developed or they developed themselves and
will law. The MJ twelve documents, the Eisenhower Briefing Document,
and the Truman forest All Memo. Now the idea was

(13:47):
the Eisenhower Briefing Document was purportedly a briefing of President
elect Eisenhower and to prepare him for the knowledge of
what what had transpired after the Roswell incident, and explained
that a craft had been recovered in bodies and that

(14:08):
a secret, super secret, super secure committee had been formed
of twelve twelve people, which became known as m J
twelve or l or the Majestic twelve. And these twelve
people were some of them were sinus, some of them

(14:28):
were generals and admirals. A couple of them were attached
to the White House. So their mission was one to
study the Roswell recovery and two to manage the UFO
problem overall. And that was that's the origin of the
NJ twelve legend.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Wow, okay, And so there was a committee formed essentially
to specifically deal with the maybe just put the information
of the UFO subject, but to manage it as well,
I would think for the government. Is that accurate or
was this simply for disinformation.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Well, the government and governments in general have to manage
information because if they don't, things can get out of hand.
So they have to have strategies to manage the public's
perception about certain issues. And that goes for politics and

(15:33):
social issues and all that. In the case of UFOs,
there was a whole lot of UFO activity beginning in
nineteen forty seven and into the fifties and sixties all
over the United States and in other parts of the world,
and the Air Force went through several iterations of projects

(15:55):
investigating UFOs, and they eventually settled on a small personnel office,
a small office with several personnel that would take their reports. Now,
what's different, what was kind of peculiar, was that they
were taking reports from the public and they were writing them.

(16:17):
They would immediately come up with some kind of mundane explanation.
It was the moon, or it was the star's weather balloon,
or whatever, and very few of the sightings were not
explained under the under the Air Force program. But what's

(16:37):
important is that at the same time UH orders were
sent out through the military system that it eventually became
policy that any UFO activity reported by in a military
context did not go through Blue Book and was kept

(16:59):
within the military systems. So there was a there was dichotomy,
a bifurcation of information about UFOs. So we had on
the public side they were managing the public perception by
debunking public UFO sidings while at the same time supposedly

(17:21):
collecting and retaining UFO information on the military side, which
is classified in which the public does not have access to.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
So would you when I was looking into it, I
was just getting the feeling the MJ twelve essentially would
be what we consider is like the powers that be
today or the shadow government, the ones right behind the
scenes pulling the strings. Is that essentially what this group
was And do you believe that there is still a

(17:52):
group in place that does what they were doing initially?

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, the the ISA Tower briefing document that asserted that
an MJ twelfth group was formed has a lot of
problems with it and almost certainly is not authentic. It's
a phony document. That's not to say that some of
the information in the document isn't true or it doesn't

(18:18):
point to the truth. The crux of the matter in
my mind is, if Roswell really did involve an extraterrestrial craft,
then it would be very likely that one it would
be put under super secret, classified, you know, situation, and

(18:39):
it wouldn't be I wouldn't be surprised if a special
committee was formed, you know, to manage it. But at
the same time, the military basically operates in secrecy. Anything
that they do that they don't want the public to
know about and that they don't want our form adversaries

(19:01):
to know about, is classified. So if there was a
Roswell recovery or other recoveries as well, it's possible that
it was handled through certain compartmented responsibilities within the military matrix,

(19:23):
the military and government matrix. In other words, only certain
people were read in on certain aspects of it, and
there may not have been an MJ twelve committee per se. Now,
the thing about the whole MJ twelve idea is that
we've never received official confirmation of MJ twelve, even though

(19:43):
I've talked to people, and I've read enough about this
that certain people have felt that they've gotten enough information
that MJ twelve did exist at a certain time. But again,
you know, we're drawing a decision tree here because as
either MJ twelve existed or it didn't. If it did exist,

(20:06):
it either had something to do with the UFOs or
it possibly had nothing to do with the UFOs. And
there are a lot of other national security considerations that
come into play, you know, with the intelligence agencies and
with the military services, for example radar uh. You know,

(20:27):
you have nuclear warfare, warfare, you know, nuclear warheads and
all the things that go along with that, even even
continuity of government. So it's possible that there could have
been an MJ twelve, but it wasn't. It wasn't related
to UFOs.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
See and I consider Roswell to cover up before the
cover up, and this off this group potentially being set
up at that time, as you said, makes sense. It
makes sense to put some group together, maybe not this
group per se, but a group in general. Is there
any example prior to Roswell of a time where the
government may have done some sort of cover up or

(21:06):
needed some sort of background group to kind of manage
something like this to me on the phase of it,
and I'm no historian, but it was seemed like, you know,
this UFO this subject in Roswell's it specifically maybe began
the whole idea of government cover ups. What do you
think about that?

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Well, if the government, depending on how important the issue is,
that there's going to be some level of secrecy anywhere
from confidential to top secret to extreme compartmentation. So during
World War Two and afterwards, some of the most sensitive

(21:52):
and compartmented information in the government was the cryptography and
codebra and they at some point the code breaking services
had broken the Japanese code. And the same was true
with the British some of the most secret and sensitive

(22:13):
information was their attempts to break the German code. So
those are two examples of things that the governments absolutely
did not want the public to know about. They didn't
want their adversaries to know that they were one getting
close to breaking it, or that they were breaking the
adversaries codes. Another example is the development of the atomic bomb.

(22:38):
Now that did actually involve a lot of people, but
there was also a lot of secrecy involved, and one
of the principal people on the mj twelve list was
a gentleman by the name of Vanovar Bush who was
running the Office of Scientific Resurge and Development during World
War Two and became very famous man. And he was

(23:03):
right below President Roosevelt, and he was above General Groves,
and General Groves actually ran the Manhattan Project day to day,
but Vanovar Bush he couldn't tell anybody about what he
was doing until after the bombs were dropped, and then
he could be he could be a little more straightforward
about it. So that was a very large and very

(23:26):
important program that was kept him in very strict secrecy
until they dropped the atomic bombs on Japan. That he
can't really hide that, so they had to come clean.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
True, and he ended up being one of the people
listed on the Majesty twelve document, the Van of R. Bush,
and I want to go over some more of the
names there to see if it made sense that they
would be a part of a group like this. So
we'll go ahead and do that as we get ready
to go into the first break of the night with
our guest Tom whitmore awesome conversation up coming, and if

(24:00):
you missed anything, you know to do having an archive. Guys,
we'll be right back right after this break on spaced
Out Radio, the after Hours radio show with me your host,
mister Rob g. So you're back here in a couple
of minutes. All right, we are clear clear, crystal clear,

(24:40):
and for everyone, I am marking your questions down, so
keep posting them, put them in caps. We'll definitely pose
them at the end of the second hour. And let
me welcome some others that have just come on in,
like Polly Rotterman. Polly, thanks for coming in. She has

(25:01):
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(25:21):
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(25:41):
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(26:04):
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(26:24):
I do see your questions. Thanks for keeping them coming in. Also,
Mark Eddie, Mark Eddie said, Rob said, I can be
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Mark Eddie, for obvious reasons. Matt Gudka stating George H. W. Bush, Rand, Cia, Under, Nixon,

(26:48):
and Ford very knowledgeable people out there in the chat.
As always, we appreciate you guys bringing knowledge to the
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(27:08):
message about a potential guest, and I will definitely mark
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So thank you for that. Always looking for good conversations, guys.
So if you know someone out there that would that,
would you know, present a great conversation, let me know.

(27:33):
The tank Keller, appreciate you for coming on in said,
I've been watching for over a year now. I hope
you're talking about space out radio and you're saving Also,
they are underwater, above water, and in there. Yeah, they're
in all those different places. For sure, we've seen them.
We've had various people talk about that. And thank you

(27:56):
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up here tonight. Who else? Who else? Let me just
move back a little bit here in the chat. Ski
Picks pi X, thank you for coming on in. Appreciate
showing on up. Also, Flat six, Flat six, long time

(28:19):
no see buddy, thanks for coming in the Jaketa. Thank
you for coming on into the show here tonight. Appreciate
you showing on up and UFO Having an expert on
MJ twelve on your show is awesome. And he's the guy.
That's the guy right there, the guy you see right
next to me. Is that? All right? Everybody? Welcome back

(28:41):
spaced Out Radio, the ap Hours Radio Show. We are
back back half hour one with our guest Tom Widmore.
Remember we're talking MJ twelve, UFOs and government. What's the connection?
Do you have any questions as those an hour two
right here Space Out Radio app Hours Radio show. And
also so if you missed the conversation this far in

(29:03):
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Getting back into the show, back to the conversation here, guys,
as we go ahead and get back into the conversation
with Tom Whitmore here. Thank you everyone out there for
your patients as well as we had a catastrophic malfunction
on this and all right, so bringing it back in

(29:27):
MJ twelve, you were talking about the vanov R Bush
leading into the break who had something to do with
the whole Manhattan project, and I wanted to kind of
go over some other names on that list just to
see if it made sense for any of those people
to be in if you were going to form a
group like that, if these were the people you would

(29:49):
put in there. So starting off with Van ofvar Bush,
would that have been someone you would have thought would
be on the on this majestic twelve team.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yes, definitely, because he was a well known technological person.
He was very involved with Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and
he was with the Carnegie Foundation, he was with the

(30:22):
National Science Foundation, you know, every elite organization that had
anything to do with science and engineering. And then he
was over the Office of Scientific Research and Development during
World War Two, so that was a big job because
he was running a whole lot of different projects, were

(30:44):
running a lot of committees that were running all these projects,
everything from radar you know, to the atomic bomb. And
he was just a very knowledgeable and experienced technologist. He
would have been a logical person to put on there. Now,
at the time that the Roswell incident came about allegedly,

(31:09):
you know, the recovery of a craft, it was nineteen
forty seven. Now vanavar Bush was very much in good
graces with President Roosevelt. He was President President Roosevelt's man
for that. But when Truman came along, things weren't quite
as good and by nineteen forty seven. I'm still looking

(31:31):
into this, but it's quite possible that that Bush was
not on good terms with President Truman for several reasons.
So maybe he wasn't put on if the committee existed,
maybe he wasn't put on it, or maybe he was
put on it to shunt him aside so that Truman
didn't have to deal with him very much.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Okay, then you have Roscoe H. Hillencotter, who apparently was
the former director of Central Intelligence. Would that be a
person you would think would be on this list? Does
it make sense?

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Well, it makes sense because he he was the director
of Central Intelligence. In hoyte Vandenberg was a central Central
Intelligence and Walter Biddell Smith was Central Intelligence. All three
of those guys, you know, we're direct either directors of

(32:29):
the CIA or you know, we're Central Intelligence. That morphed
a little bit, you know, after World War Two, well
after the National Security Act was passed in September I
think nineteen forty seven, So it only makes sense at
the time that you know, someone very high up in

(32:50):
the CIA would be involved in a committee like that.
So yes, now you know it's debatable as to how
effective Helen Ketterer was a CIA director. He did actually
go on to the board of a nightcamp of the
National Investigative Committee of Aerial Phenomena, which is very prominent

(33:10):
in fifties and sixties, you know, with Donald Keho.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
And all that.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
So you know, that's kind of an intriguing thing, even
though Helen Ketder eventually got off got out a NCAP.
So but yes, he would have been logical at the time.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
And you know, so this was released, i guess or
given to the gentleman in nineteen eighty four. So if
we're looking at this, why would someone if you're trying
to figure out why someone would put this, why would
they put these specific individuals on this list? Why wouldn't

(33:55):
they have picked some other individuals. Why would they pick
the perfect people you know, to be on a committee
like this? And and does that lean into you know,
the people that feel like maybe the list is authentic?

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah, well, these people on the list, your average American
in the nineteen eighties wouldn't be familiar with most of them.
And even today, if you know, people look at the names,
they might they might recognize James Forrestahl or let's see,

(34:37):
they might recognize hoyite Vandenberg, he was chief he was
became Chief of Staff of the Air Force, Nathan Twining.
But most of the people, you know, wouldn't be recognized today.
And there are other people that you would think obviously
it would be on the list, for example, Albert Einstein

(34:59):
or Rob Oppenheimer. But strange things happened because Robert Oppenheimer
actually had his security clearance revoked, you know, after a hearing,
and you know, and he was he ran he ran
Los Almos that produced the atomic bomb. Somebody that was

(35:20):
on the list was Donald Menzel, a Harvard astronomer, and
he was one of these phill class types. He was
just fanatically against the idea that UFOs could be extraterrestrial
in origin, and he debunked each and every UFO case
that that he was aware of, and he wrote books
about it. But he was allegedly, according to this list,

(35:44):
a member of the m J twelve group.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
And I think that's from what I briefly researched on this,
it seems like that's where people are having some of
the issues with him being on the list, because he
was totally against UFOs being a thing, and as you said,
had debunked everything that came across his desk. So a
lot of people were feeling like that his involvement in it,

(36:07):
you know, pointed to the fact that this was clearly
put together as a group to disinform the public. Do
you agree with.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
That, Well, there are several reasons why the MJ twelve
documents were put into the public domain, and one of
the reasons could be to put out some disinformation. And
if Richard Dody is to be believed, and he was

(36:39):
directly involved in it during the nineteen eighties, in the
nineteen eighties, there was an extensive counterintelligence program going on
in the United States, and part of that program involved
UFO people and the UFO groups and all kinds of

(37:02):
misinformation and disinformation and maybe some true information was circulating
in the UFO groups at that time. Now, if we
look at the context historical context of it, it was
during the Reagan administration, and Reagan was very anti communist.

(37:23):
He was very concerned about Soviet capabilities and intentions. At
the same time, we are an open society as opposed
to the Soviet Union at the time, which was a
closed society, and they were running all kinds of agents
over here that were collecting information for them, and they

(37:45):
were able to glean all kinds of information open source,
because we're an open society. So there was apparently, and
I'm not even percent sure, that there was a very
widespread counter intel and counter espionage program going on during
the nineteen eighties, And it's highly possible that the MJ

(38:07):
twelve documents were part of that counterintelligence effort. And one
one could be to put out misinformation, maybe to keep
the UFO people busy, and we're searching all this stuff
and not looking at what they didn't want the public
to know about. And you know, at the time, they
were developing things like the stealth aircraft, you know, the

(38:30):
B two bomber, the stealth fighter, and for a while
it was very secret is top secret, And those are
just a couple of examples, and really we don't know.
There could have been all kinds of other high tech
projects that were going on. Reagan was pushing star Wars,
So I think that there was just really a pretty

(38:51):
elaborate counterintelligence program going on.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Seeing that, you know, I usually try to look at
things and see what wasn't said, or see if you know,
look at in a in an abstract outlook. When I'm
looking at this, it just as you said earlier, it
seems like it would make sense that there would be
some group that would be put together if we've retrieved

(39:16):
these craft and alien bodies, we would have some sort
of group. So if this wasn't the group, though, if
you could think of individuals like you mentioned, you would
think Oppenheimer or Einstein would be on this committee. Who
else do you think would probably be a part of
the real group that was looking, you know, overseeing the

(39:40):
UFO secret if you had to guess, like if you
even thought about this.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Well, it's hard for me to come up with a
whole lot of names, you know, just off the top
of my head, but there were a lot. There are
all kinds of brilliant sign of us involved in the
Manhattan Project, and you know Lewis Alvarez and William Teller,

(40:07):
and William Teller has been rumored to be, you know,
knowledgeable about the government secrets about UFOs. Just to name
a couple. Some of the obvious military people you know
are We're already on the list. For example, Nathan Twining
became the Chief of Staff of the Air Force I

(40:31):
forget his name, the fellow that wren Sack. He would
have been a logical person to be on the list
as well, Curtis Lamy. And then you know, you have
admirals and marine generals and all kinds of that on
on the military side, you have all kinds of lots
and lots of brilliant scientists that would qualify in terms

(40:55):
of scientific acumen. But things come into play, like, you know,
is the person reliable politically? Can this person keep secrets?
Could this person psychologically assuming that we're dealing with aliens here,
can the person deal with you know, emotionally, with the

(41:15):
reality of it? And we you know, some of these
folks at the top of these governments, like in World
War two and Churchill and British government and military, these
people were keeping secrets. They didn't even tell their wives
what they were doing. And you you have to be
absolutely reliable to keep these secrets, and that does come

(41:39):
into play on who the government would rely on to
do that.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
And so you another thing that you said that kind
of resonates with me is the fact that, yeah, back then,
a lot of people don't think about this. There was
a time where internet didn't exist, or where the information
just wasn't readily available. So on the phase of it
in eighty four, yeah, a lot of people wouldn't know
who these individuals were or even have the ability maybe
to go investigate to find out more about who these

(42:08):
individuals were on the list, which just makes it even
more strange because now that we are in a time
where you can vet and look through the list to
see who these people are, a lot of people are saying, Okay,
these are the top scientists of that time, These are
the top individuals and the CIA from that time. And

(42:28):
is it just a coincidence that it ends up being
a pretty solid list if you were going to put
something together, and you know, and they didn't have the
foresight in eighty four to know that eventually someone would
come around to realizing that these were legit names. So
it's just some things for me that feel weird, that

(42:49):
make it feel like, okay, maybe they were. And it
was said as well that some of this, when it
comes to different information, they're putting some truth out there
along with the dis information. So is it possible that
the Lisdom names might actually be the the authentic and
then maybe the rest of it is the disinformation.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, it's quite possible, or it's possible that some of
the names were involved and some weren't. And it's possible
that some of the information in the text of the
Eisenhower briefing document is true and some of it is not. So.
In terms of people knowing about this list of MJ

(43:36):
twelve members in the nineteen eighties, I think Bill Moore
and Stanton Friedman had come across most of these names,
and that we have to remember that Bill Moore was
one of the most astute UFO researchers at that time,

(43:56):
and Stanton Friedman was like a bulldog and researching things.
And I think they had run across these names or
were aware of the names. But they that could have
been one subset of a much large, longer list, because
like I said, you could come up with all kinds

(44:16):
of names that would be appropriate, you know, for this
kind of activity. But at the same time, more and
freedmen had been accused of creating the MJ twelve documents
because you know, they admitted that they were aware of
most of these names. It is interesting that a person

(44:39):
general I think is Arthur Exon, he you know, working
at Wright Patterson, working in the at flag officer level,
you know, you hear these rumors and whispers. But he
stated that he had always heard of it as the
Unholy thirteen. So what does that mean. Well, if you

(45:01):
got MJ twelve plus the president, then you've got thirteen.
That's the Unholy thirteen.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
And it's coming at a time whereas you were saying earlier,
is president elect Eisenhower? Right, So if we're to assume
this is as he's coming into presidency and then supposedly
Eisenhower has this interaction with the extraterrestrial presidence, you know,
from just looking from the outside, and maybe you have

(45:31):
more to put say to that, but it just seems like, Okay,
it just so happens that it happens to be right
before an event that a lot of people believe actually happened,
and it just does it bring more validity to it
or does it not? And you know, and I'm just
asking the question. I'm not saying either way.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Well, one of the one of the criticisms of this
MJ twelve scenario and Eisenhower being briefed is that, excuse me.
Eisenhower was so high in the military during World War Two.
He was a five star general. He was over Operation

(46:13):
over Lord, you know, the invasion of Normandy. He was
a commanding general of the European Forces during World War Two,
and then after that he you know, I think he
had a stint as president of Columbia University, and then
he ran for president. He was so high up that,
you know. One of the criticisms is that, well, wouldn't

(46:35):
he have known about this before? Why would he need
to be briefed. But I'll tell you a little story. Now,
Stanton Friedman had already turned this up, and I hadn't.
I hadn't actually read this before I did it myself.
But I spent some time living in Washington, d C.
And I would go down to the Madison Building at

(46:57):
the Library of Congress and go through General Twining's papers,
and I found a document in General Twining's papers that
he was briefed.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Let's hold it right there. Let's pick that up on
the other side of the break. We're actually going to
break great place to leave off right there, So we're
gonna find out what was in the papers that Tom
pulled in Washington, DC. Guys, don't go anywhere. I appreciate
you sticking around through the technical difficulty that we just
had a moment ago that will be edited out. You

(47:32):
don't have to worry about that. Other than that, we'll
be back right after the break right here on spaced
out Radio conversations that moved the needs, that.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Moved the need of listening to after hours with mister
Rob g on the only place where you can own
the night, spaced out.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Radio, space Out Radio. You've turned your dial to the
right frequency. All right, we'll jump right back into that
story when we come back. See you in five minutes time.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
Okay, all right, assents.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
That ascent.

Speaker 5 (49:09):
Absolute ascents excellent, excellent, accident accident two ex absent absolute excellent,

(50:28):
excellent accent absent ebsolute act exactly exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly

(51:33):
exactly sat.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
All right, welcome back space out Radio After Hours radio
show after our number two and actually we're gonna be
coming back for radio break here in about twenty five
seconds here, so we'll be getting ready. We have your
questions so far, definitely make sure if you have any more,
put them in caps. We'll be asking them at the
end of this hour. And thank you Paula Rodaman for

(53:25):
your awesome support of space Out Radio. And once again,
so those on replay won't even know what happened tonight,
but for those watching, we will be editing out that
small piece suggest so you know, here we go. All right, everybody,
welcome back spaced Out Radio After Hours Radio Show After
Hour number two. We are back in the building here

(53:47):
with Tom. We're more talking Majestic twelve MJ twelve and
we'll be talking some more stuff here as well this hour.
So make sure you don't go anywhere. And if you've
missed conversations so far, you know what you can do.
Tell you all the time you to hop into archives
because they don't cough to dye the absolutely three YouTube
dot com forward flash of based Out Radio as we

(54:10):
get back into the conversation. So, Tyl, you were right
talking about something there. I know you moved to Washington,
DC back in September of twenty nineteen, and you talked
about during that time that you had uncovered a paper
from it was it twiny Nathan F twenty and US
Air Force General and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

(54:30):
If you wouldn't mind continuing on with that story.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yeah, because I found that on the Eisenhower briefing document.
It's the same date that President Eisenhower received a briefing
at the Pentagon. It was in November of nineteen fifty two.

(54:57):
And Stanton Friedman, I mean to give proper credit, he
had already turned this up. I just wasn't aware of it.
But I'm at the Library of Congress, sitting at a table,
and I've got this file of Nathan Twining's personal papers,
and they don't really give you the good stuff, you know,
you just get whatever you get. But I'm going through
the stack of papers and I turned this up that

(55:20):
Eisenhower received a briefing at the Pentagon same day. The
Eisenhower briefing document is dated, and that gave me a jolt.
And that's one of the great things about doing research,
when you get a connection like that.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
So whoever created these I don't think anyone in the
UFO field was capable of creating that document, the Eisenhower
briefing document. I think that it was created somewhere inside
the government. I have a little bit more specific information
than that, but I don't want to spoil my book yet,

(55:58):
but I you know, it is a little too sophisticated
to be created by just some amateur hoaxer.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
So what can we expect the book?

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Well, I want, I want to do at least twenty
chapters and I want I'm working on chapter four right now.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
So hey, but take your time because we know it's
going to be as concise as it needs to be.
So I can't wait to see that. And getting into
so current day, Current day m J twelve right, because
whatever group, whatever you want to call them, there is
a group behind the scenes that seems to be there

(56:41):
and they seem to interfere with the release of information,
has to still be there today obviously is not going
to be the same individuals that would have started out
this group. Where where do you think this group exists
within the government?

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (56:59):
And do we not? Do you think potentially we know
some of their names, but we just don't know they're
part of this group.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Well, there are always the most important and powerful people
that are within the Pentagon, you know, the Deputy Secretary
of Defense, you know, kind of a position, and then

(57:30):
you have certain military people that are qualified to sit
on these special access program committees, and these special access
programs can be you know, they can be deniable where
people can't even admit that the program exists, then there

(57:55):
are really very like super what I call super people
in the government, like Henry Kissinger. I don't know if
he ever was or is, but you take someone of
his of his stature, you know, it's maybe someone like
that is involved. There have been there have been rumors

(58:17):
that what William Teller has been involved in this. So
it's very you know, you you're very high scientists, very
top scientists, very top military people in key positions, a
couple of people on the political level, and the president.

(58:39):
It's hard to say how much he knows or doesn't know,
because if they don't tell the president much, or if
they don't tell the president anything, the president can honestly
say he doesn't know anything about it, and that provides
plausible deny ability. And one of the naive one of

(59:00):
the naive notions that people in the UFO field have
felt has been that the well, the president has to
know all this. Well, maybe maybe he knows a little something,
maybe he doesn't. And even though the president is nominally
in charge of the executive branch and it has the power,

(59:20):
you know, to run the executive branch, you know, politicians
come and go, but the so called deep State, you know,
remains and there are people you know, within the Pentagon
and these intelligence agencies. They may decide they don't want
to tell the president something or another, and they may

(59:43):
withhold it from him. They definitely withhold it from from Congress.
We've seen this drama play out in these you know,
and all the activity has gone on since twenty seventeen,
so it's really kind of a guessing game. But I
do think that if they have recovered ET technology, just

(01:00:06):
to use a convenient term, uh, you know, it's being
studied under one or more special access programs. Those that
program or programs are probably within a super secret special
access program or programs that are in the Pentagon, And

(01:00:26):
then you know, only a select few of a few
people know about what's going on, and very few, I
mean very very few know the whole picture because it's
assuming it exists, it's all extremely compartment and you only
know enough, you know, to know what you need to

(01:00:48):
know whatever it is they want you to do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
So how does in maybe there's a simple answer to this,
but how does a group like that survive under detected
within the government for just for forever essentially until I
guess this group would be there forever literally and just
change out the players. But how does a group like

(01:01:14):
that survive undetected within the government and will in one word,
they would they have like a I would assume they
would also still have to have some sort of hierarchy
even in the group that they're in. So I don't
know if you could speak to any of that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Well, let me give you an example. There are all
kinds of people, not even you know, top level people
that work in classified programs and they can't even tell
their They can't tell their spouse about it. Okay, James Angleton,
who is head of counterintelligence in the CIA for years,

(01:01:55):
he told his wife that he worked at the Post Office.
So really, you know, these programs and not even necessarily UFOs,
but just technology and weapons and things that are classified. Yeah,
the people that work on these they sign all these documents,

(01:02:15):
all these uh, non disclosure documents, and they basically sign
their life away. They can't tell their wife, they can't
tell anybody, and God help them if they take any
document home at night, I, you know, to study. I
ran across one case of a lady that was prosecuted
because she took a document home. It was only classified

(01:02:38):
confidential and they threw the book at her. So these
these people they have there, they have the fear of
God put into them, you know, when when they're read
into these programs whatever they are. And I think that's
that's why you've seen some of the skittishness of some
of the so called whistleblowers that have testified or have

(01:03:01):
wanted to testify and haven't testified yet because they don't
feel confident that they have that they have the kind
of protections that they need, you know, to go public
with information.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
And you talk about fear of God, and I've talked
about this, what side of it do you mean? Do
you do you mean threats to the person in their
family or do you think it's you know, letting this
individual know that, hey, if this information comes out, the
United States crumbles, everything crumbles. Or do you think it's both.

(01:03:33):
It's a bit of both.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
It's a bit of both, because they're if you release
classified information that you're not supposed to release, you're subject
to the Espionage Act. He you know, ten years in jail,
ten thousand dollars, fine, whatever the penalties are, and that
that pretty much keeps people in line. There are there

(01:04:01):
have been people in the intelligence agencies and in the
military that have disclosed egregious amounts of information to our adversaries.
And sometimes they throw the book at them, and some
of them are still in jail. Sometimes they don't even
prosecute because they don't want the information to come out

(01:04:23):
in a trial. So, you know, it can go both ways.
But the general I mean, I mean the general drift
of it is your average government or military employee is patriotic.
They want the best for their country, they want to
serve our country, and they're patriotic. So when they're told

(01:04:46):
you know, this is very sensitive information. It affects the
national security of the United States, you know, they abide
by that. Plus they know that if they don't, if
they step out of line, they could get serious, serious trouble. Now,
another problem is that I think that the government uses
national security as an excuse way too often, right, and

(01:05:09):
the American people aren't properly informed of what our government
knows and what our government does, and even Congress in
general doesn't know enough about what the executive branch is
up to, and they use national security as an excuse.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
I've always wondered and when I talk about the whistleblowers.
They know the wistle blowers themselves know what their NDAs
have within them, so they know how far how close
to the line they can get and kind of talk
around it in certain ways. And I just see there
aren't a lot of whistleblowers that will do that. They'll

(01:05:47):
just kind of hide behind the NDA, and it doesn't
allow you to know if this whistle blower is authentic
or not. There's only been like one, I think, maybe
David Grush, who seems like he's kind of trying to
go right up against the line of what he can
and cannot say. I would think in a world where

(01:06:07):
and maybe this is just the way I think. But
if as far as NDA's go, if you have a
world changing, world changing information and it's really just a
revelation that asks the trestrials are here and we have
crash retrievals, which shouldn't, you know, release any sort of
national secret, so it should be okay. But even if

(01:06:28):
it isn't, and it's under the NDA, and a person says, okay,
this will change the world and potentially change the situation
that we're in as human beings. If I release this information,
it's gonna shake things up enough to where maybe I
don't get prosecuted, or do you think there's ever a
situation where that happens, Because you know, if catastrophic disclosure

(01:06:53):
is to be believed, then when the information comes out,
things will be a little unsteady. And I just if
they were to be unsteady, I just didn't see any
structured way that someone would be prosecuted. And maybe that's
just crazy thinking. But what do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Well, a couple of things. I mean, the uh what
I call some of the doubters out there. Their criticism
is that these so called whistleblowers that come in front
of Congress aren't providing any direct proof. They're just making claims.

(01:07:32):
But I'd like to ask you this, what is your
definition of catastrophic disclosure? Because I hear that term bandied
about quite a bit.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
What I did determine this strom of disclosure is just
I'm giving you all the facts today as we know it,
everything except for the classified part which might be government
so everything else. Though we have the bodies, we have
the craft, uh maybe not the location on where they're

(01:08:02):
being held, but I've seen them in kind of just
this world breaking story where we have this moment of
while everyone sees it, while these things are real, we
actually have these craft and it kind of shakes things
up and get bring and brings on that ontological shock
that everybody talks about. That's when I say catastroptic disclosure.

(01:08:22):
That's kind of what I envision.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Uh huh, well, that's what I will call big D disclosure.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
You know, like these videos that lou Lou Alsondo and
Chris Mellen showed, you know, when all this started back
in twenty seventeen, I call that small D small D disclosure.
Big D disclosure is you know, authority is either the

(01:08:52):
president or the Secretary of Defense, secretary or you know,
holding a press conference and providing the proof and saying
this is real.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Mm hmmm. And they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
They don't do that because it would shake things up,
and they don't. You know, you don't really know what
the what the second, third, and fourth and fifth orders
of effect would be, you know, uh, it's hard to
predict that. And ontological shock is when what you thought

(01:09:33):
was true, something fundamental, foundational in your thinking that you
thought was true, you find out it's not true, okay,
And that that's a hard thing to swallow, and you
basically either become very confused and disoriented or you just

(01:09:55):
refuse to believe it. And I really think that if
they held a news conference tomorrow and brought out the
posters and the films and everything and tried to convince
everybody that's real, there'd be a lot of people out
there that just wouldn't believe it true. And things have
gotten so bad, especially since Vietnam, that so many people

(01:10:19):
don't trust the government now, don't they don't know if
it's a psyop or if it's disinformation or they're just
out right lying, or it's false flag. They'll find some
reason not to believe it. So you know, you have
that possibility as well.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
So if Tom went more to more, if Tom had
the data that we needed, and he's in the government
and he is having his moral dilemma where compassion is
kicking in his love for human beings and thoughts about
the descendants down the line and family, and it's he's
weighing that against the oath to keeping this NBA secret,

(01:10:57):
and he's really on the fence, and he's like, you
know what, I'm really thinking about coming out and saying
this and I think a group of people, especially like
the ones here for sure, wouldn't allow Tom Whitmore to
be prosecuted. I feel like, and I feel like a
movement or a moment like that would happen for the
person that ends up being the one to take that risk,

(01:11:18):
that you have a groundswell of support from the citizens
that wouldn't wouldn't stand to see you prosecuted. I just
feel like that would be the case. I don't know
if the government, if things get shook up so much
that the government has the wherewithal to still go through

(01:11:38):
that moment, that chaotic moment and still attempt to prosecute,
maybe they would. Maybe they would definitely prosecute. But it
just feels like who knows until someone does it right?
And will there be a person that would step forward
and take that risk? Do you think there's anyone that
would be willing to do it? In history, we go

(01:12:01):
back and look through history, there's always that person in
all these different historic moments that stood up in front
of everyone and said I'm going to be the one.
And it feels like this could be one of those
moments now, And I just like, how do you feel
about that? Do you think that we could successfully get
through a moment like that where someone has just broken

(01:12:21):
the NBA, or do you think it'd be business as usual,
put them on trial, put them in jail, and let's
just move on with our normal lives.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
Well, here's another example. Remember mister Snowden, Yeah, who lives
in Russia. Now he was He felt like he really
needed to get this information out to the public about
all of the data that the government was collecting on

(01:12:51):
everybody and everything, and they have these different technologies and programs.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
He he to to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
He was able to make a connection with a couple
of journalists. He had already gone outside of the United States.
I think he was in Hong Kong or one of
those places, Singapore when he met with these journalists, and
he was scared to death. He was going through, you know,
very careful security measures just to meet with these journalists

(01:13:22):
and give them the documentation that proved what he was
talking about. And it wasn't even about UFOs. It was
just about data that that the intelligence agencies like the
NSA and then are collecting on all of us. They
collect everything that we do on the internet, on the telephone,
you know, you name it. Yeah, I just feel like

(01:13:44):
he's living in Russia or he was, and see.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
I can understand that, and I could also understand his
feeling of this is so important that I need to
bring it out because the news that he did bring
out was pretty groundbreaking, but it wasn't It wasn't the
type of news I would risk myself for. You know,
it would have to be something that changes humanity going forward,
like really changes the way that we do things on Earth.

(01:14:11):
And it feels like that this extraterrestrial disclosure, if we
could have like an organized moment and always points to
like COVID for instance, when the world was on notice,
we had the world's attention for this one particular thing,
and people learned from it, people change the way that
they lived behind it. And I just feel like when

(01:14:34):
we have a moment to gather the world's attention or
garner the world's attention and we drop some news like that,
if everyone's tuned in at the same time, then maybe
we have that we ability to shift kind of what
it is that we're dealing with, what we're going through.
You know, as far as this machine goes, the government

(01:14:55):
and the way that they hold authority over everyone I
feel like, and maybe it's just hope in me that
hopes things would change, uh in that way. I don't know,
what do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Well, maybe somebody will come along and is willing to
be a martyr.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Yeah, I meant there, I would do it. And maybe
that's just people to say, oh, well, you're just saying
that because you're not in that situation. But I'm really
one of those guys who would really say and and
and stand out there and do it like I'm I
and I talked to because I would hope that some
of these people watch these shows, and I would think

(01:15:35):
they do because they're involved with the subject. Uh to
kind of just think about it, you know, it's yeah, okay,
there's gonna be a tough you know point, but you
are you would be the person to usher in a
historic change for humanity, and I would want that on

(01:15:55):
my name versus taking it to the grave that I
sided with the government and kept my mouth closed because
they wanted me to and they had me sign a
piece of paper. Right, I just couldn't. I turned. I
couldn't die right right knowing that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
And I'm sure there are other people that feel that way.
But that the first thing that the authorities try to
do is to discredit you. Okay, yeah, and look what
they did to David Grush.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Sure, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
During the Clinton administration, there was a Secret Service guy
was on the Secret Service detail for President Clinton and
he wrote a book about President Clinton's misbehavior. You know,
we've all heard all the rumors and stories and they
come out and you know, this guy is Secret Service. Okay,

(01:16:50):
I mean, they're supposed to be extremely reliable people. He
writes a book telling the truth about what Clinton did
and what he acted like, and they tried to credit
the guy. Okay. It happens all the time. So that's
that's step one. If that, if that doesn't work, then

(01:17:10):
you know, there's always the prosecution angle. But then again,
they may not prosecute if they don't want information coming
out in trial, and and then who knows, you know,
and they can get fired, they can have their pensions
taken away, they can have their promotions taken away. If

(01:17:33):
they're charged with something it's ruinously, it's financial, it's ruin us.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
Yeah, we need a martyr. We need a martyr. We're
going to be back with Tom went more talking more
UFOs and government. What's the connection we've talked to m
J twelve. If you missed any of that conversation, hoping
an archive absolutely free. We'll be back right after the
break with questions and more. Stay tuned, all right, we

(01:18:06):
are clear. Yeah, I know they're dirty, man, I know
that they'll pull all those stops out, but I just
and some people call it pie in the sky, and
because I just hope for this perfect situation where you know,
humanity gets to take advantage of this moment and we
get to move in the right direction. Like just so
hopeful and optimistic that we get to do that. But yeah,

(01:18:28):
they have things put in place that will make most
people think twice. Like me, I'm still one of those
people at the end of the day that I would
really be contemplating this and like, hey, it'll change it.
Maybe it's the end for me, but it'll change humanity
going forward. And I'm basically willing to do that, especially

(01:18:51):
if I'm later in life like I am now. I'm like,
you know what, I've lived great life. Let's go ahead
and make this happen. I'm gonna step out there, We're
gonna we're gonna move this needle one way or the other.
And if it doesn't move, the needle is gonna at
least affect the situation enough to where someone else can
step in and finish the job. But I don't know.

(01:19:13):
This is me just just hoping being optimistic time and
I don't know, man, we don't know how this is
gonna play out. But I will always be here to
try to drive us down that path.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Sure, no, I understand. I mean I want I want
disclosure as much or more than anybody. I've been doing
this for thirty years. But I'm realistic enough to know
what kind of a really just monumental situation that we're
up against again in the executive branch. I mean, it's
and it's Congress that has passed all of these national

(01:19:49):
security laws.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
And then on top of that, you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Have executive orders that the presidents have written over the years,
and some executive orders are classified. You don't even know
what they are. And my personal opinion is the executive
branch has too much power and it's out of control.
That's just my personal opinion. But you know, and over time,
the Congress, you know, is composed of four or five

(01:20:14):
hundred people, they've rather just handed over the executive branch
and let them do what they need to do to
run the country. And they basically abrogated a lot of
their responsibility and authority over the government, and they control
the purse strings. They pass laws, they can repeal laws,

(01:20:38):
and unless they change some of these national security laws,
and I don't think they ever will. You know, it's
just a very very difficult thing to get this kind
of buried classified information, assuming that it exists to come public.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
All right, well, I know we'll we'll pick up with
right after the break. Then this would be a perfect
place to pick up. I see everyone's comments out there,
and when I do appreciate you guys chiming in. That's
why I love this audience. In this crowd, you guys
are always on top of it and adding to the conversation,
which is what it's all about, right because we have

(01:21:20):
conversations that move the needle, and that requires your input
as well. And you know, you guys have some great
stuff that I'm reading out there. So if you have
a great question, definitely pose it so we can ask
it going into the final half hour here with our guests.
And this has been awesome thus far. Let me see,

(01:21:47):
let me read a c I do have a couple
of minutes we read this, Kinzo. There's a new wizzard
blewer protection bill, which would be cool. I agree with
the executive branch is out of control. Congress must grow balls.
I'll just say it balls and take the power back. Yeah,
I can agree. I can agree. Polly Roderman saying, be
sure to hit that like and subscribe. We'd appreciate it.

(01:22:09):
Once again, guys, if we could take a moment. If
you're on a mobile device, right on to your screen,
there's a little thumbs up or thumbs down button. Please
just take a moment. If you're watching the show, hit
one or the other let us know how you feel
about it. And after the show, if you have something
you wanted to add to the conversation, please put it
in the comments. A lot of people go there to

(01:22:31):
kind of, you know, see what the audience thought, some
of your thoughts on some of the things that we
have spoken about. So it would be cool for you
guys to do both of those things. Max Meeks saying,
historically the government higher ups we're a bunch of Satanists.
Sad but true. This too shall pass a lot of

(01:22:52):
religious undertones in the old government. Right, we do understand.
I understand where you're coming from, Max Meeks, and he
says he's liked and subbed, and we appreciate you for
doing that. A guy, Tom King, Scott Watcher extraordinaire. We
gotta get you back on soon. Tom, I'll email you.
They've been calling on whistle Ward protect your bill for
thirty years now, if or when it passes, the next

(01:23:14):
decade won't mean ish. Yeah, when you get into the
semantics of here's a new bill, here's a new group,
I think that's all a distraction and a waste of
time period, right, because we're already at a point where
we know what's going on and it's literally we literally
only need a couple extra bits of information to kind

(01:23:34):
of seal the deal, and we're able to sit down
as experiencers and with all the data that we have
and experiences, we could crack the case on our own. Really,
I really don't understand why we spend so much time
waiting on the government. I always say, if they add
something to it, that's great, that's a cherry on top.
But we're coming back right about now, all right, welcome

(01:23:56):
back Space out Radio app hours Radio show. We are
on the back half of after our number two once
again with our guest Tom Whitmore. Has been awesome, awesome,
awesome stuff here tonight. Make sure if you miss any
of the conversation, jump in the free totally Free fr
EE archives at YouTube dot com. Forward slashes faced out

(01:24:18):
radio as we get back into the conversation and your
questions here with them the next thirty minutes. So I
did want to based on what we were talking about,
and I wanted to know in your mind time, what
would be the best way to approach for if you
could formulate a plan, what would be the best way

(01:24:41):
for us to approach imminent disclosure? If we knew it
was happening, it would we were right on the cusp.
What how do you think that should transpire?

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
Well, there a couple of things have to be excellent
or they have to be in place, and one is
there has to be a reason for the executive branch
to want to disclose it, because basically, they have nothing
to gain by assuming that it's true, Assuming they have

(01:25:11):
the information they have, they have nothing to gain by
disclosing it. So there would have to be a reason
for them to want to do that. Now if that,
if that exists, I think what what should happen and
what should logically happen is that people are kind of

(01:25:32):
confidentially and they're kind of systematically but on a semi
confidential basis prepared for it. In other words, they work
with the churches, they work with the academic community, you know,
advising people that this is coming down. They work with

(01:25:52):
the media, They prepare you know, all of the segments
of society that would be involved in understanding what what
is going to be disclosed. But once you get that
ball rolling, then the rumor mill is going to start
and it's going to leak out, and people are going
the government's getting wanting to disclose something, and it would

(01:26:17):
I think, quickly reach a point to where, you know,
when the snowball starts coming down the mountain and it
gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and you can't you
can't stop it. So that that that's a problem right there.
But I don't know how they can just come out
cold and say X y Z is true. You know,
the people would have to be prepared because in the media,

(01:26:41):
especially the top media moguls Wall Street Journal and Fox
News and NBC and MSNBC and all these people they've
got to. Maybe some of them already believe it at all,
but they would have to be properly prepared for the rollout.
And I think maybe a big part of it is

(01:27:02):
not because the people in the know are mean and
evil and they don't want to help the public. They
can't figure out a way to do it that doesn't
cause a lot of problems.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
That makes sense. I could see that, and I do understand.
I try to look at both sides see why they
wouldn't do it, and I've come up with a few things.
But do you think the government or the United States
government more specifically, controls whether or not other governments want
to come out and discuss this? So, say an ally

(01:27:36):
of ours that isn't currently involved in any wars anywhere
decides they want to be the ones to bring this
out based on the information they have. Do you think
they have to run it through the United States government first,
or do you think there's a world where they get
to come out and do it on their own terms.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
Well, at the core, we have the thought advice Britain, US, Canada, Australia,
New Zealand. We're basically we may not be in lockstep,
but we're pretty much in sync. So whatever the US
government's policy is toward all this, I think, you know,
there's a level of coordination there. And in the second

(01:28:21):
tiery you might get into like the European countries like France,
Germany and all them. I think they're close enough allies
that perhaps at a certain level they could they could
be convinced that it's not in their interests to disclose something,
assuming they have anything to disclose. I mean, I don't

(01:28:42):
know if France has any crash saucers or Germany or
any of that. And then you have are alleged adversaries
like Russia and China if they have recovered craft. I mean,
it's anybody's guess why they haven't disclosed it. Maybe they
think maybe they have the same reasons for not disclosing

(01:29:03):
antha we have, you know, the problems that would cause,
or they don't want us to know that they have
certain technology you know on the shelf, that kind of
a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
Yeah, I always feel like on that aspect of it,
and I always feel like with the whole spy network
out there, that usually we know pretty much what they're
doing or what they're going to do based on spies
on the ground, and the same thing for them, spy
as they have here across the United States, they're kind
of aware of some of the things that we're talking

(01:29:36):
about are doing. So I just feel like when it
comes to that, that we're not keeping total secrets from
them and vice versa because of the whole espionage world
out there. But what do you think is the next
shoot a fall if you had to gauge based on
what has happened so far this year, or maybe even
what do you hope to see next?

Speaker 2 (01:29:59):
I would hope, hope that one or more whistleblowers, like
you said, would come out and play martyr. I just
don't see the Congress seeing it as being in their
interest to change any of the national security laws. And

(01:30:22):
the UFO Disclosure Act has failed, and I'm not sure
there's an impotence, an impetus, or momentum to pass a
whistle blower protection Act, a really strong whistle blower protection act.

(01:30:43):
So that's left up to one or more people that
are willing to put their neck on the block. We
keep hearing that there are people out there, ten, twenty thirty,
forty people out there that want to talk that want
to come forward. But most people are married and they
have families, and you know, they have lives, and they

(01:31:04):
don't want it all to come crashing down around their heads.
I mean, that's understandable. You can't blame somebody for not
wanting to destroy their life just because yeah, just because
we want to know the truth, true, true.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
I agree, And that's exactly the reason why I feel
like it hasn't happened yet, because they have very reason
right there. And shame on the government for holding things
like that over whistleblowers heads, because it's it's a secret
that shouldn't be a secret, because you don't own the skies,
you don't own what comes into our atmosphere. And it's

(01:31:41):
just crazy that they're even that we even have to
have this conversation. But we had the hearing recently and
there was a video release there where it depicted a
UFO in Yemen going across this ocean or sea, I

(01:32:01):
would assume, and then being fired on by I assume
it's our military with the hell fire missile. When you
saw that video, what was your first thought.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
Well, I have a very neutral stand on these videos.
I generally don't pay any attention to UFO videos. I
mean they're all over the place on Twitter and Facebook
and the Internet and all this, and unless you know
and seeing it just briefly, my personal attitude is, unless

(01:32:36):
you have something that is undeniably unambiguous, plain as day,
you know, I just don't get excited about it. Now.
I'm not saying that that video is fake or that
something isn't really there, but I just personally, I don't
get excited unless it's unambiguous and you can't deny it's
really something anomalous is going on there.

Speaker 1 (01:32:58):
Okay, fair enough? And where do you think we can
find the crash retrievals in NHI bodies? Where do you
think those are currently being held? If you had to guess, they.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
Could be anywhere. Area fifty one is an obvious thing
that people have been spreading rumors about for decades, but
they could be anywhere. And if you talk to people
that are working in classified programs, and you've probably heard
this wrong, sometimes the government hides in plane sight. They're

(01:33:37):
just at any old building. There's nothing special about it
from the outside, and yet the people that are working
inside are working on something highly classified or they it's
not even classified, okay, and they're basically hiding in plane site.
And the construction capabilities now, I mean you look at

(01:34:01):
even like the chunnel, you know, the tunnel you can
or they have tunnels, uh, you know subway tunnels that
go under underneath rivers and beneath the English Channel. They
have such construction capabilities. They could they could bury something
so deep and you know, you have no idea what's

(01:34:22):
going on there. They could You could they could have
stuff a mile deep that's buried so deep that you
could never get to it. Or on the other hand,
it could be they could it could be hid en
plane side, it could be anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:34:34):
Yeah, I agree with you on that because right here
the the the plane right before the the SR seventy one,
I can't recall what it was. What was the spy
plane right before the s R seventy one the U
two YouTube YouTube, So the U two, just so happens,

(01:34:54):
was assembled right here in the city. I'm in Bakersfield
and it's in unassuming warehouse here in North Vegersfield, and
I just drove by there the other day because I
want to see it in person, and it's you would
never think that what took place took place in that building,
so the hide end and playing site that indicates that
right there. But a lot of people just I don't

(01:35:17):
know if you've heard, there's a lot of people are
saying the plant forty two on Edwards Air Force Base
is probably where they're doing the work on reverse engineering
and are bringing retrieved craft and potentially NHI bodies. So
I don't know if you had heard of that, but
I wanted to put that out there for other researchers
that might want to look into that, because I plan

(01:35:39):
on going there in person and kind of just doing
a broadcast from there with my friend Josh Rutledge. But
with that being said, this is one question I did
have for you that I wanted to look at in
your eyes, looking back, just going back your whole time researching,
what would you point to some of the pivotal moments

(01:36:02):
in ufiology where it moved the needle.

Speaker 2 (01:36:07):
Well other than the actual UFO activity. And there's plenty
of literature on that. I mean, there's so much that
I can't you wouldn't even know where to start. But
I think in terms of the kind of subjects that
I'm concerned with, the Robertson Panel report was a key
thing the Robertson Panel meetings, and for people that aren't

(01:36:33):
familiar with it, it was a group of scientists that
met under CIA auspices and they looked at some UFO
films and you know, came up with some findings of
which were negative. But the interesting thing to me was
that they said that UFO groups should be monitored. Now

(01:36:55):
this is back in nineteen fifty three, okay, and a
particular UFO group, APRO, was specifically mentioned. And then later
on in the late seventies and eighties, we get into
this whole business of APRO being involved in this whole

(01:37:17):
m J twelve affair, and you know that that's one
of the key things in terms of UFO sightings. I
think this Aquoro incident was a big thing. Uh. This
this Coro landing where Lennies and more saw a craft
land there and take off that that seemed to be

(01:37:39):
something that that the government really took notice of, and
that convinced Alan Heindech that that something real was going on.

Speaker 1 (01:37:48):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
And then there there have been other incidents like the
Emmenager saw where Robert Emmenager and his partner Alan Sandler, Uh,
they they were subjected to what I call it dangle.
The government was promising to give them a film of
the alleged halem And landing where a UFO supposedly landed.

(01:38:14):
A couple of UFOs landed at holm And Air Force
Base in New Mexico, and the aliens came out and
h military people met with them, and you know, maybe
there was some kind of agreement formed or something, but
you know, they they dangled the possibility of giving mister Ammenegger,
you know, this film for their for their documentary, which

(01:38:36):
eventually became UFO's Past, Present and Future. But then that,
but then that when it came right down to it,
you know, they they didn't. They didn't provide it. And
this this, this has happened over and over. It happened
to Linda Howe, and this is the kind of thing
that goes on.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
Yeah, And I know when I interviewed Richard Doughty, I
asked him and said, looking through your lenses, your information lenses,
at what's going on today, the current climate and the
people involved right now, do you see the same thing
going on right now? And he said yes, he didn't
really say who, but so we know that the disinformation continues,
and we've seen evidence of that many times in this community.

(01:39:18):
Roger Murray wanted to ask you why the US government
continues to lie about disclosure.

Speaker 2 (01:39:26):
Well, assuming they have anything to disclose, they don't see
it in their interests to do that, and that they
have nothing to gain by disclosing it. That's why they
keep doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
All right. Polly Roderman is asking mister Wilmore of three I,
Atlases and alien craft, what should we expect from the
ets and human sides? Who should represent Earth in your mind?

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
Well, I mean if an alien craft landed on the
White House lawn, so to speak, which is the cliche,
you know, I don't think we know what to expect.
And I recently was in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I
was at the at Dave Marler's Museum and Archive there

(01:40:12):
and Linda Hall was there the same day and she said,
why don't the aliens tell us? You know why they're here,
and you know what they're doing? And I said, maybe
they have told us, and we just don't. We don't understand.
We don't understand what they're telling us. Alien means alien,

(01:40:34):
that's a self contained quality. It's something that we are
neither familiar with or that we understand. And I think
no criticism of the person asking, and I appreciate the
question very much, but I think we might be a
little bit naive to think that we could even communicate
with aliens.

Speaker 1 (01:40:53):
I can agree, And I think they've been reaching out
for some time. I've given some examples, like even the drone.
If we're to believe that's anomalous, maybe that's a time
where they're trying to reach out. There's some new Jerne
thing happening now that's unfolding, So I guess we'll have
to wait and see super crazy movie. Gig is asking,
do you know if Einstein and Oppenheimer were briefed into

(01:41:14):
the Roswell incident and saw the recovered craft and bodies.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
I think that if the crash happened, and if the
recovery happened, I would give the chances that better than
fifty to fifty that both of them were either read
in or shown something.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
All right, And we have Ms Catherine Jones saying, Tom,
can you give us some examples of governmental disinformation since
nineteen fifty?

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
Well, just what I just mentioned about the M and
A or affair. Another thing that happened.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
And this is all.

Speaker 2 (01:41:59):
These are activity that occurred during what I refer to
as the MJ twelve affair in the nineteen eighties. But
a document that's called that I call the Aquarius Telex
was given to Bill Moore to pass along to Paul Benowitz.

(01:42:19):
And on that document there was misinformation. For example, they
it referred to NASA when actually the real word or
the real acronym was inn essay, and there was other
incorrect information in it. In another instance, Linda Howe had

(01:42:42):
come onto Kurtland Air Force Base. She had an appointment
with Richard Doty, and Richard Dody escorted her to an
office and she was shown what I call the Carter
Briefing document. And the Carter Briefing document contained several of
the rumors that had really started floating around during the

(01:43:05):
nineteen eighties. And that document most likely is spurious, And
it's not that Richard Doddy was a bad guy. He
provided it to her. You know, he was under orders,
he was doing what he was supposed to do, and
Linda how was probably being observed by other people through
a two way mirror or something so that they could

(01:43:25):
see her reaction. Another example is the PSALMN one oh
one manual, you know, that arrived anonymously, under you anonymous circumstances.
It was photographed. It arrived in a very similar way
as the original MJ twelve documents that arrived in a

(01:43:46):
box through the mail, but in thirty five millimeter film
and a canister that had to be developed. Then a
huge pile of documents arrived at Timothy Cooper's front door,
and he had several sources who he won't disclose, He
won't say who they were. And it's possible that some

(01:44:06):
of this, some of this stuff was disinformation that they
were sending to the Russians, you know, trying to fake
out the Russians, to make them think that we had more,
you know, more technology than we did. That's a possibility.
I mean, I can't say that for sure. So those,
you know, those are several instances. Now you're mentioning what

(01:44:27):
it's like today, and I'm glad you brought that up,
because with social media and the Internet now our situation
is completely changed. Okay, there's just information all over the place, misinformation,
good information, bad information, mean people, nice people, you know,
And Dodie has mentioned a couple of times that the

(01:44:51):
Chinese and the Russians and the Koreans, they're watching all
of us and it's right there in front of them.
Another thing that people may not think of, but these
UFO conferences like mof On Symposion or Contacting the Desert,
those are open to the public. You know, anyone can go.
So someone from the government probably on their own individual initiative,

(01:45:15):
but anyone can. You can buy a ticket, you can attend.

Speaker 1 (01:45:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's it's crazy when you think
about it, because some people that you may look up
to that are speakers may actually be one of those
the information agents. You just don't know. And it just
kind of has you looking at people taking the double take.
And I think you should with all these people whistleblowers

(01:45:39):
and people who appear to be UFO ufology heroes, and
you should kind of maybe look at all of them
with that in that light. Would that being said? Polly
Roderman had the final question, which was your opinion on
the Scandinavian drones. So it's this latest drone incursion.

Speaker 2 (01:46:00):
I think they're probably think that. I think the line
of thinking is probably that the Russians may have something
to do with it, and tensions have been, if not escalating,
they've been rising some over the last several weeks, and

(01:46:21):
there's been saber rattling. I think the Russians have they've
run aircraft, you know, uh, right along airspace in some
of these countries here.

Speaker 1 (01:46:34):
Has recently and Poland, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:37):
Yeah, and there have been you know, drones, I think
over Poland, and there's there's some talk by the Europeans
that you know, they're going to start shooting them down
if they if an authorized craft enter their airspace. They're
not gonna They're not going to mess around. So I
think probably they're conventional, some kind of inventional drones.

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
Yeah, and I feel that way right now too. We'll
have to wait and see what happens there. Tom, been
a pleasure talking to you. I really appreciate you coming
in and hanging with us through the hiccup. We'll do this.
We have to do this again soon. Can you tell
everybody where to find you real quick? We got about
ten seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:47:19):
Tom Whitmore blog dot org, Press dot com. Tom Whitmore
Blog dot org, Press dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
All right, once again, Tom Whitmore, Ladies and gentlemen, thank
you so much for the conversation. Tom. I'll be reaching
out shortly. You have a great rest of your night.
Thanks for coming in.

Speaker 2 (01:47:36):
Thank you Rob.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
All right, begations that moved the need.

Speaker 6 (01:47:39):
For conversations, that moved the need.

Speaker 3 (01:47:41):
Of listening to after Hours with mister ROBG on the
only place where you can own the night, spaced out Radio.

Speaker 7 (01:47:50):
Space Out Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
You've turned your dial.

Speaker 2 (01:47:53):
To the right frequency.

Speaker 1 (01:48:01):
All right, guys, we are jumping into the final break.
See you back here in five hour three is going
to be action packed, so you see you soon.

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B b.

Speaker 10 (01:50:50):
B bom tomtoms mumpo.

Speaker 9 (01:51:33):
Common boom.

Speaker 10 (01:51:40):
Boom boom boom the TomTom don don top.

Speaker 1 (01:52:40):
To Hey everyone, Welcome back spaced out Radio After Hours

(01:53:16):
number three with me and your host mister robb G.
Give it a far fantastic guest Tom with more today
tonight hours one and two. If you miss any of
that conversation hopping archive, we'll be starting back radio here
in about five seconds, guys, and here we go. Welcome

(01:53:37):
back spaced Out Radio after our number three would be
your host, mister Rob g. It has been a fantastic
show to that. We talked what's spent connection, UFOs and government,
we talked NJ twelve, We talked a whole bunch of stuff.
Do you miss any of this conversation which was awesome.
Once again hopping an archive because it doesn't cost you anything.
It's free thousands of shows and go ahead and want

(01:54:01):
YouTube dot com forward flash at spaced Out Radio as
we get ready to jump into some Steve Stockton tales
and told missing person mysteries. We love. Steve Stockton is
a part of the app Hours radio show and we're
just gonna jump right on into it.

Speaker 6 (01:54:15):
Let's go Welcome to Tales, Untold and Missing person's Mysteries
on spaced Out Radios after Hours. My name is Steve Stockton,
and I'm here to take you on a journey of mysteries,
legends and true stories. Come join me on this strange
adventure of tales, untold and missing person mysteries. We'll be

(01:54:36):
talking about a case of a man, his daughter and
their dog who are missing but then rescued alive. Needless
to say, it's always a great day, and we can
bring you a story like this, as it happens far
less often than when someone goes missing and never comes
back or is found unfortunately deceased. So here it is

(01:54:57):
a candy man and his family rescued being lost for
a harrowing forty eight hours in the wilderness. Thirty seven
year old Peter William Monroe, his seven year old daughter Laila,
and their dog Buck were hiking in Oregon's Mount Hood
National Forest, and we're going to make a family trip
of it. Peter's wife, Camille was planning on joining her husband.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
And daughter on this trip.

Speaker 6 (01:55:20):
The day after they left, Camille said she'd arrived at
the family's Kinsle Lake campsite to join them on a
camping trip. When she got there, they were nowhere to
be found. She assumed they had got out a hike,
but when they never returned, she sent off the next
morning to search for them. Camille had no luck and
called police after she found Peter's truck at the Devil's

(01:55:40):
Peak trailhead with his keys and Laylah's stuffed animals still inside.
I just want to point out here that once again
the name Devil is involved with the place where people
have gone missing in the wilderness. It was around two
thirty in the afternoon on Wednesday, September second, twenty twenty
when Camille Monroe called nine one from the Devil's Peak

(01:56:01):
trailhead report that her husband Peter, their daughter Layla, and
their dog Buck had been missing for at least twenty
four hours. Flackham's County Sheriff's Office Search and Rescue coordinators
activated a rescue mission immediately that same afternoon. The search
area featured challenging terrain, and the mission would soon involve
volunteers from the CCSOSAAR Trail Running Rescue Team, Search k Nines,

(01:56:27):
rope teams, and ground teams. This included support from Pacific
Northwest Search and Rescue, ARMS, Reach and Treat Team, Mountain
Wave Emergency Communications, Portland Mountain Rescue, Oregon Office of Emergency Management,
three hundred and fourth Rescue Squadron, one hundred and twenty
fifth Special Tactics Squadron, a Special Forces unit of one

(01:56:50):
hundred and forty second Fighter Wing of the United States
Air National Guard, and the Hood River Sheriff's Office Air Unit.
Over fifty searchers ended up participating in the mission. Most
of these Vaunteers sprung into action immediately upon being called
and were eager and willing to help out in any
way they could. Searchers worked through the night with additional

(01:57:11):
resources from the three hundred and fourth Rescue Squadron and
the one hundred and twenty fifth Special Tactic Squadron, deflowing
to the field at about two o'clock in the morning
to assist the tired crews who had worked through the night.
At approximately six am on Thursday, September third, searchers from
the three hundred and fourth Rescue Squadron were able to
make voice contact with Peter. It's at least another hour

(01:57:32):
for them to reach the trio, though due to the
harsh and difficult terrain. Peter, Layla, and Buck were found
northwest of the Kins of Lake trailhead, in a ravine
that was located about one point twenty five miles and
approximately twelve hundred feet below where they had first set
out for their hike on Tuesday. Peter was injured and
unable to walk. Lyla and Buck were in good spirits

(01:57:54):
but needed assistance. Crews quickly began to assess and provide
first aid. They learned Peter had become lost and had
been moving downhill to where he thought the trail was located,
injuring himself in the process. After stabilizing Peter, Cruise began
the exhausting process of carrying him out of this remote
location through the difficult terrain. They reached the air awaiting

(01:58:16):
medical crew on Still Creek Road, about seven miles from
Highway twenty six near Rhododendron, at about twelve thirty in
the afternoon on Thursday, September third. Peter, Layla, and Buck
were lost and stuck in the wilderness for over forty
eight hours without supplies. This means no water and no food.
It's an absolute miracle they survived relatively unharmed. Peter was

(01:58:41):
transported to an area hospital for his injuries. Buck and
Layla were reunited with the rest of the family and
were getting some much needed rest. After his rescue and hospitalization,
Peter spoke to reporters from the Backward ambulance and made
this statement, I just want to thank all the first
responders and everybody else that helped get me out of
that hole. I don't think I would have made it out,

(01:59:02):
especially without any other adults, So I owe you guys
my life. Thank you. Search crews want to offer special
thanks to a nearby construction crew working on the Still
Creek Bridge or Payer project. The construction crew sped up
the rescue operation by using a crane to hoist the
Special Forces vehicles over the river. Authorities mentioned that without

(01:59:24):
this help, it would have taken an estimated additional four
hours to take the longer route to reach the location.
This was definitely a dramatic and dangerous rescue operation, and
the crews and volunteers who participated our true heroes. We're
glad to report that Peter, Leila, and even Buck are
all fine and have suffered no long term injuries or

(01:59:44):
lasting effects from this terrifying ordeal they endured went out
for a simple family hike. It just goes to show
you please be careful out there, whether a loan, or
with a group, or even with your pet. No one
is immune to the rough and tumble ways of mother nature.
Always be prepared. Peter and his family were extremely lucky

(02:00:04):
or survived and been rescued.

Speaker 1 (02:00:08):
Next up, we bring you.

Speaker 6 (02:00:09):
The story of a mother and son became lost in
the Colorado wilderness. Now, it's never a fun time when
you're lost in the wilderness, doesn't matter what age you are.
The unknown and mysterious depths of the woods, even the
most well traveled and scenic tourist spots, can become deadly
and your situation desperate really fast. If you don't know

(02:00:29):
where you are once you're off the main trails and
clearly marked paths. If you don't know where you are,
then how can you possibly know where it is you
are going. Once this realization sets in, it must be
very hard to suppress the rising fear and panic. It
surely sets in the moment you think to yourself, I'm
lost out here? Will anyone be able to find me?

(02:00:52):
Usually in these areas where we go to camp and hike,
cell phone service is completely unreliable and spotty, even on
the best days. Now, imagine all this and add to
it being washed with one of your children. This is
exactly what happened to a mother in Colorado and her
fourteen year old son when they decided to go for

(02:01:12):
a day hike and spend some time together on Thursday,
August fifth, twenty twenty one. It was a typical day
for the pair, spending some time together in the great outdoors,
taking in the beautiful scenery and clean fresh air, just
trying to get in some outdoor activities and exercise opportunities
before summer ends. In the autumn chill hits the air.

(02:01:34):
The pairrots somehow gotten turned around and lost, and ended
up having to spend the entire night in the freezing cold,
extremely dark, and predator infested woodlands in the back country
of the Flat Tops Wilderness area between Trappers Lake and
the Still Water Reservoir. The Still Water Reservoirs, a scenic
alpine lake located southwest of Yampa, Colorado. Reservoir rests at

(02:01:55):
ten thousand, two hundred and fifty nine feet in northeast
Garfield County. It offers excellent opportunities for fishing, hiking, and
camping in the surrounding White River and Route National Forest.
The as yet unnamed mother and son were reported missing
by the woman's husband and the young kid's father when
they failed a return home by eleven pm that same night.

(02:02:17):
The Garfield County Sheriff's Emergency Operations Division took the report
and immediately began a full search and rescue operation to
try and locate the pair before it was too late.
The husband went out himself to go and find his
wife and son and met some people, not only as
two good Samaritans along the way. The three continued out
together on foot to try and locate the man's missing family.

(02:02:41):
Garfield County Search and Rescue sent out an alert shortly
after midnight for all available members to meet at the
operations Barn and Rifle at five am Friday, which was
the following morning. The two had been missing nearly twenty
four hours at this point and the search was fast
becoming desperate. Cel service in the area is very limited. However,

(02:03:04):
they were able to receive a ping from one cell
phone to assist in finding approximate location coordinates of the hikers.
The fresh release stated Garfield County Sheriff's Office, along with
Garfield County Search and Rescue, coordinated their rescue efforts with
the Route County Sheriff's Office and their Search and Rescue
team to begin at dawn Garfield County s and R

(02:03:25):
DE Floyd at Trappers Lake, with the Route County beginning
a ground search farther east from Stillwater Reservoir. The care
Flight was requested to join in the search with their
helicopters to provide any necessary medical support and transport when the.

Speaker 1 (02:03:39):
Hikers were located.

Speaker 6 (02:03:40):
The release further stated it took just about an hour
and a half, but eventually, at around seven thirty am
that same Friday morning, it was reported by the father
that he and the Good Samaritans had a visual on
the missing duo.

Speaker 1 (02:03:55):
The mother was.

Speaker 6 (02:03:56):
Extremely dehydrated and quite hypothermic, who would make a full recover. Luckily,
the fourteen year old son had no injuries and was
able to walk out to the Still Water Reservoir with
his father and one of the other Samaritans completely unharmed.
The other Good Samaritan, who was helping the father in
his desperate search, twisted and injured his knee. He was

(02:04:17):
taking by ground transport with the unnamed mother to a
hospital which was about a two hour drive away. As
we said, the mom was hophothermic and dehydrated, but would
go on to make a full recovery. All parties would
be safely reunited in Stillwater Reservoir, and the release stated
this was another successful mission of the volunteers of Garfield

(02:04:38):
Search and Rescue. These volunteers are called upon regularly to
assist in various rescues from water to climbing accidents, they
assist in the rescue of lost or injured hikers, travelers,
or other outdoor enthusiasts in the back country. Luckily, this
story has a happy ending where all parties involved, including
those who were initially injured, made full recovery and made

(02:05:00):
it home safely. All too often, though, this is not
the case, and the decisive action of the husband and
swift measures taken by the search and rescue crews in
Garfield County, Colorado definitely contributed to this idyllic outcome. Please,
no matter if it's a day hike or a family
camping trip, be sure and carry a person locator beacon.

(02:05:21):
Always pack extra clothes, food, and water in case the
unthinkable happens. All too often, the outcome of these day
hikes gone wrong aren't as fortunate, and people can even
end up losing their lives.

Speaker 1 (02:05:35):
Next time.

Speaker 6 (02:05:37):
Twenty four year old Gina Allen and twenty eight year
old Brandon Day, both from Dallas, Texas. We're in California
for financial convention and they decided to go for a
day hike together on some trails just west of Palm Springs.
The pair ended up lost when they wanted off the
trails and ended up not being able to find their
way out. This is when their simple hike turned into

(02:05:58):
life for death ordeal, and the thing that saved them
is what makes this story not only very special, but
also quite bizarre, to say the least. When the couple
first realized they were lost, Brandon said he wasn't too
worried because at that point he could still hear voices,
so he assumed there were people around, most likely on
the trails they were trying so hard to find their

(02:06:20):
way back to. He said he kept thinking the trail
would be right around this boulder. However, the trail never materialized,
and the couple knew they had to do something. Night
was closing in on them, and they had not come
prepared for more than a simple day hike to take
in the sights. They didn't even bring their cell phones,
let alone food or spare clothing. They were only wearing

(02:06:43):
white jackets, and they were completely helpless, and at the
mercy of the woods, they went into a cave and
spent the night freezing and scared, starving and terrified of
what may come and find them. When they'd closed their
eyes to sleep, if sleep would come, they were so
cold and afraid The next morning, they decided to do
something they had learned somewhere at some time, and that

(02:07:04):
they had somehow been able to retain. They started following
a bowlder stern path downhill, struggling to stay with the
stream running downhill right with them. That night, they were
frequently awakened, but not by the animals they so feared,
but by their own shivering. Brandon stated the manter for
the day was We're going to get out of here.

Speaker 1 (02:07:25):
We're not going to die. It's not our time.

Speaker 6 (02:07:29):
By the third day, Gina Allen was very weak and
didn't even know how much longer she could continue on
like this. She said she couldn't stop thinking the worst
and that she was praying a lot. Eventually they discovered
a campsite. It was in a dead end gorge, but
they decided to look and see if there was anyone around.
They found a phone, sleeping matt razors, a poncho which

(02:07:52):
was thrown into some branches so they could make some
shade if they needed to, a spoon, a pair of
tennis shoes, and a backpack. They were relieved and elated,
thinking for sure whoever owned this gear would be able
to show them to safety. However, that elation turned to
fear when they realized this campsite was deserted. Among the

(02:08:13):
many items were coroded flashlight and a broken radio. They'd
soon discovered that the gear was all soaking wet. Nobody
was going to help them. They searched through the gear
for more supplies and came up with an identification belowing
to the sixty year old retired social worker from Virginia
named John Donovan. The couple found a journal of sorts

(02:08:36):
written on some sketch paper and the backs of maps,
and realized that John Donovan himself had been lost. As
he wrote these little notes, he was a man who'd
lost all hope of ever getting out of the woods
or being rescued, at least not while alive. In John's backpack,
Gina and Brandon found a warm sweater. She immediately put

(02:08:56):
it on to keep warm and stop shivering. He was
able to on some dry socks found in the pack
to help him warm up, and they even found dry
matches to be able to start a fire. They tried
with a small fire to signal a nearby helicopter, but
nobody seemed to have seen the signal and they were
still completely stranded, but at least for now, thanks to

(02:09:16):
John Donovan, they had a hope for survival in the
few supplies he had left behind. Brandon Day said of
the journal, his last journal entry was one year to
the day we found it, which was eerie. Nobody knew
who he was, nobody knew to come looking for him,
so he was preparing for the end. We were looking

(02:09:37):
at the words of a man who was passing. The
couple later learned a little more about the man who
had invertently and unintentionally saved their lives. John Donovan was
an experienced hiker who was following the two thousand, six
hundred and fifty miles Pacific Crest Trail, which goes from
southern California right up to the Canadian border, on May second,

(02:09:58):
two thousand and five, when he vanished. The conditions were
very icy and he must have lost his way or
become too injured to keep going. The next day, they
came to a large covert which was completely covered with
dried leaves, vines, and other type of foliage. With the
strike of just one more of those matches they found
in John Donovan's backpack, they were able to light up

(02:10:19):
an entire acre or to a forest, create a huge
smoke signal, and finally get the attention of a helicopter
crew who rescued them miraculously. When they were taken to
the nearest hospital, it only sustained minor bruises and some blisters.
Brandon Day stated, we feel great, We're thankful, we feel
like we've been given a second chance. Was the coincidence fate,

(02:10:43):
synchronosity destiny that they found his supplies one year to
the day that he had written his last journal entry.

Speaker 1 (02:10:50):
We may never know.

Speaker 6 (02:10:52):
It's always good when we get to see something wonderful
like hope and the gift of getting to continue living
coming out of something so tragic as of very experienced
hiker losing his way and never being seen again. John
Donovan's remains were eventually discovered by a twenty foot waterfall
in a pool amid virches and mossy green rocks in

(02:11:12):
May of two thousand and six.

Speaker 1 (02:11:14):
Wow Wow, I'm always wow at the end of one
of those stories. Definitely want to thank Steve Stockton tells
the Told Person Mysteries. We had some good ones in
there where people actually were found, and that's always a
good thing. Some of them are not found in the
currently able to continue to live state. I'll say I

(02:11:36):
agree between Wines on that. Well, that being said, we're
gonna go ahead and jump into our next segment here
and welcome back. Someone has been gone for a little while.
I think you might know who it is. Everybody, Welcome back,
mister Drew, Thank you, mister.

Speaker 3 (02:11:54):
Them ahead, I'm gonna eat.

Speaker 1 (02:11:56):
Yeah, get in my bemading yes, yes, yes, yes, pleasantly

(02:12:19):
surprised to be joined back by the one and the
only drewski Banky. How you doing, sir? How you been?
Long time man? How you been? Let's catch up? How
you been?

Speaker 2 (02:12:32):
What's going on people?

Speaker 1 (02:12:34):
Man? And it sounds like you're far away, so I
don't know if you're talking through that mic or not.
I think you might be talking through uh your computer mic.
It's okay, it's first day back. You know how it goes.
You can fix dabbing about now. There you go, sir,
there you go. Wow, Okay, back in the building. Fill

(02:12:57):
us in, just fill us in in a different look
at Yeah. Yeah, I'm loving it. I saw some previews
on your page, man, so I was like, I kind
of knew what to expect. When I'm like, Okay, we're
just glad to have you back. Man. It's been all summer, man,
we haven't seen you. We've seen you last I think
July fifth we did a show and that was just
to come back and you kind of really ground since June.

(02:13:20):
We're in September now. Yeah, the whole summer. Man, We're
glad to have you back, buddy.

Speaker 7 (02:13:25):
Yeah, it's been busy. It's been a manifestations real like.

Speaker 1 (02:13:32):
Talk really what has happened?

Speaker 2 (02:13:34):
Man?

Speaker 1 (02:13:34):
What has transpired over I know you guys were in
the doing the move and so how's all that turned out?

Speaker 7 (02:13:41):
This was fun and it's been it's been a long
drawing out process. It's been a lot longer than what
we thought it was going to be.

Speaker 9 (02:13:48):
And oh man, just.

Speaker 7 (02:13:50):
Twisting turns and uh did a few ceremonies, uh some
sweat lodges and other ceremonies. Another U bookie, Sir Aremonia.
I'd done with a chief from up in pine that
lives up in Pine Ridge on the reds. He's uh,
he's a sundance chief and I've agreed to go sundancing

(02:14:12):
next year, so again up there. So it's going to
be a new place to sundance and it's gonna it
feels right, feels like it's time to go back this.
Uh he's the chief of ghost Nation, so Winnoogi Nation
uh Winoga y Alata, which is ghost Nation translates to

(02:14:32):
ghost Nation. So there are basically a lot of medicine
people and stuff. So it's it seems like it seems
like the right time, and there was a lot of
synchronouses that lined up at that time.

Speaker 9 (02:14:44):
But man, the move has just been crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:14:49):
You know.

Speaker 7 (02:14:49):
We just finally finally closed on the house a couple
of days earlier this week, early in the week, we
closed on our house, and then like a day or
two later we closed on this house. So we're officially
we're officially here in crestone and everything.

Speaker 9 (02:15:06):
So part of the p o A again.

Speaker 1 (02:15:10):
Uh uh So I'm catching I'm catching uh like uh
inside of a spaceship, the TP spaceship vibes. Man, what
am I? What am I getting? I feel like a
tpe is kind of what it feels like.

Speaker 7 (02:15:27):
But I don't know this this new I'm on ground
level now, I'm not on the site. I'm not above
a barn anymore.

Speaker 9 (02:15:34):
But this whole house is a strawb ale house.

Speaker 7 (02:15:37):
Soh these walls, behind these walls right here, this is
uh like a concrete mixture that's over top of it.
But behind here is strawb als so and it's all
like packed in and it's got other stuff in there too,
like there's wood framing and metal and stuff like that.
But the majority this is for the insulation for this house.

(02:15:59):
It's made out of strawberal. And this particular room is
like an octagonal kind of like a permanent uh you're
type of so it's all octagonal. If I if you
look up and you can people can look up pictures

(02:16:20):
on my on my socials and stuff and give me
some love. But I posted pictures throughout the process and
moving of this office. What looks like above me. You
can kind of get a glimpse and it's like that
it's uh, let's see. Yeah, it's one, two, three, it's sixcited, excited,

(02:16:41):
seven sided. I don't know, but it's uh, it's kind
of it's kind of like a pyramid shape and uh yeah,
it's uh.

Speaker 9 (02:16:51):
Kind of like the windows and everything. It's it's different.

Speaker 1 (02:16:55):
It is I'm getting the angular aspect. It just it
feels with me just I'm looking like this is what
I would imagine. I've never been inside of TP, but
I'm feeling like this is kind of what we be
doing inside of maybe one of these ceremonies in the TP,
getting ready to get it in. So it's a cool
vibe that you got going on there, and it's awesome.

(02:17:16):
I'm glad you guys are finally settled because now you
can kind of relax and kind of get back to
your business and all the things that you guys do.
And we'll be talking more about that because I know
we're going into the break here in about twenty seconds here,
so why don't we do this. We'll talk more over
the break and then we'll be back on the other

(02:17:37):
side of the break with Drew Banky and the After
Hours wrap up and the Tom Whitmore interview that we
just conducted and just how awesome Tom Whitmore is. So
don't worry about anything, guys, we're gonna be back. Action
Pack half hour coming up next spaced out radio the
After Hours Radio Show with me and host mister Rob
g and then back in the building Drew Banky with

(02:18:01):
After Hours wrap Up. We'll see you guys right after
the break. Don't go anywhere, all right, we are clear.

(02:18:26):
We are clear. Polly riding and saying, good to see it, Drew, Uh,
let's see, let's see Kitty getty wack hey, Drew.

Speaker 9 (02:18:41):
Hey, Hey, hey, kitty Catty, Hey Polly. Everybody. Good to
be back, Good to be back, Good to be back.

Speaker 1 (02:18:47):
Man.

Speaker 3 (02:18:48):
I was.

Speaker 7 (02:18:49):
I was sweating too, It was trying to get this
Wi Fi figured out. It's a much bigger house, a
much a lot closer to the main router than I
was before. But I don't know what it is about
these these type of houses, the concrete strawbale type thing.

Speaker 9 (02:19:08):
It's hard for signals to get through. So I gotta
have my booster.

Speaker 7 (02:19:12):
I got my booster down in the hallway here that
goes into it goes through the greenhouse into the main house,
so I don't have to go outside anymore, which is
kind of cool, kind of not but kind of cool.
I don't get to have to step outside to look
at stars at.

Speaker 9 (02:19:27):
The end of the night. But any hoosel Are.

Speaker 1 (02:19:31):
You still in the middle of nowhere like you were before?

Speaker 9 (02:19:35):
No, we are in crust On, So this is this
is the house. I talked about we went and looked at.

Speaker 7 (02:19:42):
The big lights appeared in the sky after looking at it,
and we looked back on everything and that I think
that happened like at the end of April and so
and we just closed on all that. There was a
lot of ups and downs. We lost it at one point.

Speaker 2 (02:20:02):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (02:20:03):
The other sale fell through like it's it was a
whole thing.

Speaker 2 (02:20:07):
You know.

Speaker 7 (02:20:08):
And then and then we ended up getting it for
less because the guy felt bad. Uh, So we ended
up getting another discount on it.

Speaker 1 (02:20:16):
So let's always good. Less is always good. I'm glad
to hear it. As long as everything is okay, long
as everything's settled now, family settled, everything was feeling good,
then we're good. We're good. Oh man.

Speaker 7 (02:20:30):
I I was me and Ella was talking the other day.
Were satting out a table and he was looking around
and we just keep saying each other. It's like manifest
you know, manifestation is real. We definitely manifested this. And
I was like, every if I look back on different
parts of my life, like, everything's a ceremony. You know,

(02:20:53):
everything's a ceremony if you can dissect it and it
I wish everybody could see.

Speaker 9 (02:20:58):
The world the way I do. I really do that
all humbleness, but I really.

Speaker 7 (02:21:03):
Wish people could see it the way I do, because
I just dissect it and see the spirituality and through
it all, you know, maybe not in the process. Through
that four month process, its ups and downs, all types
of emotions, you know, back and forth. We was looking
to buy in Hawaii at one point, you know, because.

Speaker 9 (02:21:23):
This fell through.

Speaker 7 (02:21:24):
Our first cell fell through, our first buyer fell through.
We had to find another buyer. But that second buyer
was really quick to do it. So but me and
Ella was talking the other day, like as like the
day before yesterday, we were sitting down having coffee at
the kitchen table, and it was like, man, this has
been one of them. I feel more confident than ever

(02:21:48):
just in my faith of what I believe in, of
the higher power and the universe at work, and the
power manifestation, the power gratitude and all these things that
I talk about all the time. And you know, it's
these past three or four months has been uh a
testimony to all that. You know, It's just been more

(02:22:10):
and more and and all the spiritual things that's happened,
you know, running in not running into bear a cross
but running across the podcast, he talked on reaching out
to him, and then you know, a couple weeks later,
I'm setting in a sweat lodge with him, and then
I go into a whippy ceremony and you know, it's just, uh,
tons of things happened around that too, Like a bunch

(02:22:31):
of secretisities happened around that. So it's, uh, there's a
lot of more exciting news that I can't share right
now with all that, but it's uh, trust me, it's
kind of it's gonna blow your teist's mind when when
it all comes out and good.

Speaker 1 (02:22:48):
We need to energy back in the building. Man. I
was just thinking about Devs the other day and I
know she reached out, and I'm like, man, it's about time.
It's about time. So we'll we'll have to set Devs
up her on the show. We just we need to
get we need to tap back into consciousness real quick,
and especially with the times where it's definitely all obviously

(02:23:10):
crazy is heck right now, and we just need some
more of that, right We need that energy, that great
good energy coming in here. And before we go back,
we got ten seconds left, and I guess we'll talk
about this maybe after the show. But your friend Chris
Bledsoe was in the news recently and we'll talk about

(02:23:32):
why in a moment. Here we go. Yeah, all right,
welcome back Space out Radio after our number three back
half of the third hour, and we have been joined
back with our guys Drew Bankey with the after hours
wrap up. He's back in the building. He's feeling good.
He's feeling good. We're feeling good, and I hope you're
feeling good to hope you enjoyed the show so far

(02:23:55):
if you missed any of it. As I always say,
it's free. It doesn't cost anything than the archive YouTube
dot com forwus slash a space dot Radio. As we
get ready to bring this thing home, so after hours
wrap up, you come in on a night where this
is first time talking to Tom Whitmore. Tom Whitmore is

(02:24:15):
a really you know, uh, a guy who is super
laser focused on the facts and the specifics, doesn't get
into too much of the wooy stuff, which I can appreciate.
And uh, I don't know how much you were able
to tune into tonight, especially with the technical difficulties that
we had, but did you have anything that stood out

(02:24:37):
to you anything that you wanted to point to or
speak to.

Speaker 7 (02:24:42):
No, just just talking about disclosure, you know, And I
think it's a you know, we always talk about disclosure,
and this is always it's always a topic that's you know,
on the front of our palette. But you know, and
his viewpoints on know it could it could be major

(02:25:02):
news right now.

Speaker 9 (02:25:03):
It could It could come out.

Speaker 7 (02:25:04):
And there'd be a lot of people that wouldn't even
look at it. And I agree with that too, Like
there's there's there's the shock factor is kind of gone
with all this stuff in a way. I don't know
if I would call it the shock factor, but it's, uh,
people almost got to witness it for themselves. And I said,
I've been saying this all along. They got it's this

(02:25:26):
is kind of this disclosure thing.

Speaker 9 (02:25:29):
It could be put over.

Speaker 7 (02:25:30):
The airways and you're gonna have a large percentage of
people talk about you know, that's probably AI or you know,
that's probably generate on a computer or something like that,
and they wouldn't believe it unless they experience it face
to face, like firsthand.

Speaker 9 (02:25:48):
And I think and I agree with them. I I
caught that part of it.

Speaker 7 (02:25:52):
I did miss the very first part of it, because
I was dealing with my own technical difficulties with Wi
Fi and everything as soon and then then it's as
I got tuned in, I saw you had it as well.

Speaker 9 (02:26:02):
So maybe it's not a you know, maybe it's not
a coincidence.

Speaker 1 (02:26:09):
And I try not to fall down that bath when
it comes to interruptions with service, but you kind of
got to think, right, I mean, if it happens during
particular conversations and like, you know, we're talking MJ twelve
and we don't We've really never talked about that much
here on the show, but getting into talking about government
officials and getting into the details, and then all of

(02:26:32):
a sudden we have a catastrophic Streme crash, which doesn't happen.
I've never really had that happen, so that was just
kind of strange, and you just have to think. I mean, yeah,
you gotta think, yo, who's watching and if someone would
target I don't want to just be like, oh, yeah,
they're watching me, helicopters are following me. I don't want
to be that guy, right, But at the same time,

(02:26:53):
and you know, you just it's kind of weird, right, Yeah, Yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:27:00):
I know that.

Speaker 9 (02:27:02):
I know that I'm not.

Speaker 7 (02:27:03):
I don't really think in my heart of hearts, I
don't think that's any anything nefarious on my end.

Speaker 9 (02:27:09):
You know, it's a I'm getting my system.

Speaker 7 (02:27:11):
Figured out and figuring out what I need to do
to get a good signal back here. And I finally
figured that out after the show started. But you know,
it could they could be listened to us. I think
I think they listened to everything I asked, uh speaking
you mentioned Chris earlier on the break, but I was

(02:27:33):
speaking to Chris and as like are I was asking
about if the government is looking into native prophecies or
if they're interest in native prophecies. He said, they're highly
interested in native prophecies and anything. Anytime there's a conversation
that talks about native prophecies, they're they're listening. And uh

(02:27:55):
so we might have just triggered them to listen that
they they weren't already. But that being said, he ended
that with they are listening to everything everything.

Speaker 1 (02:28:07):
Well, I'm gonna shoot our own horn and say they
should be listening to this show because this is the
after hours radio show where we have conversations that move
the needles. So if you were going to listen to one,
I would hope that it would be this one. And
with that being said, I mean, because you've been and
this is almost I can almost sit here and interview
you for the next few minutes here, because there's been

(02:28:29):
things that have happened since last time you've been on
the show. Three I Atlas is a thing right now,
and I don't know, have you watched its progression? And
how are you feeling? We're like, truthfully, what is this
the twenty seventh So we're literally a week award, less
than a week away from it passing Mars and we

(02:28:49):
getting the best image that we could have gotten so far.
How do you feel?

Speaker 9 (02:28:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (02:28:57):
I haven't had time much time to look at it.
But there's people that I do trust that I've caught
up because they're in my algorithm, on my friends lists
or whatever av lobe, you know, I really really trust
his take on things. He's very, you know, very scientific
and factual on things, and listening to him and his

(02:29:19):
take on it threw me off a little bit. I
was very surprised that that he would even suggest that
this could be anything other than a rock or something
like that. He suggested that it could be some type
of interstellar ship, you know, and they're estimating it left
his home if it is something, and left his home
base twelve fourteen years ago, Like, how.

Speaker 9 (02:29:40):
Are they calculating all this stuff? That's anyway?

Speaker 7 (02:29:45):
Yeah, this is some crazy times, dude, this is this
is I've said it before, and he just paused, there
you are. I thought we lost you again, Dude, I
thought you left me.

Speaker 9 (02:30:01):
But I've said it before. I say it again, and I.

Speaker 7 (02:30:06):
Mean this wholeheartedly. Right now, more than anything, this is
a prophetic time that we're in right now. And I'm
not just I'm not discussing on that.

Speaker 9 (02:30:16):
I know that for a fact.

Speaker 1 (02:30:18):
Yeah, it goes into a lot of different things. It
just makes me think of a lot of other things
that are going on and other things that people have said.
And I'm just trying to connect dots, if there's any
dots to even connect. This could literally be just a
rock passing through and it's just a really huge, huge,
freaking rock that's about the past Mars. And we'll know

(02:30:39):
within a week if that's the case or not. So
we could start speculating on this. But my whole thing
and the thing and you know, we're not ask A physicists,
we're not astronomers. We don't have telescopes looking at this
thing to be able to give you the latest information
on what this thing is. We're looking at reports just

(02:31:00):
like everyone else and taking the information, looking at both
sides of the conversation too, because there are as A
physicists scientists that say it's just a comment and nothing
big deal. Here, we have iv lob as you said,
coming in saying on this IVI scale of ten zero
to ten, it's a four for him right now, and

(02:31:21):
he lists the reasons why it's so anomalous, and even
the latest thing I saw him say, literally I think
this was yesterday where he said, another anomalist thing is
its size. It seems to be growing in size, whatever
that means, and it could still at the end of
the day be be something normal or explainable. But I

(02:31:43):
was talking to Josh Rutley's last week and I was
just saying, you know, it's just I think the cool
part about it is is that it's just part of
the conversation because it should be. Because we know that
we have UFOs currently visiting this planet. Now we know
we have non human intelligence currently interacting with this planet now.

(02:32:05):
And if we see something strange that we don't understand
what it is, coming from space at a trajectory that
kind of brings it close to where we are, you
gotta wonder if those things are related. Are the things
we see in the sky related to this object coming in?
It's a yes or no answer, and we'll find out,
and maybe it will it won't be it'll just be

(02:32:27):
a rock, or maybe we'll find out that it's something
different or something that we weren't expecting. But you gotta
have your your antennas up to just period instead of because.
And one other thing I'll say here real quick is
that if av Lobe didn't step out and say anything,

(02:32:48):
then all the other astrophysicists and scientists would just look
at this as a rock. They may not have even
mentioned it, or even if they did, they would have
just said, hey, it's a comment. It'll be passed mile
this date and then nothing more and we move on
with our lives. They move on with theirs. But Ivy
kind of shook it up, saying, wait a minute, it's
very strange, and that for that reason and other reasons,

(02:33:12):
it could be alien intelligence what do you think. I mean,
it's only responsible to at least think about it.

Speaker 9 (02:33:22):
Absolutely. I mean, there's.

Speaker 7 (02:33:27):
Going back to indigenous way the Indigenous talk like and
talk and talking about their their star knowledge. This is
that we're dipping our toe into this conversation when this
has been common knowledge that's been passed down for generations
and generations and been witnessed by generations generations. I mentioned

(02:33:49):
earlier Chief bear Cross.

Speaker 2 (02:33:51):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (02:33:51):
The reason I found him he was on the Aubrey
Marcus podcast. I don't even really listen to Aubrey that
much anymore, but it just it popped up crossed. It
was another guy that I knew, Chase iron Eyes was
on there. Another Lakota guy was on the podcast as
a friend of mine that I met at Standing Rock

(02:34:13):
back way back in the day during the protest days.
But anyways, so I was listening to this podcast and
Chief Bear Cross was talking about a Lakota origin story
I've never heard before. It's it's an origin story that
was passed down from his grandfather who went on Humblacha,

(02:34:33):
which is like a vision quest, going going up on,
spending four days out in nature, no food and water,
setting in one spot and him Blaicha translates into crying
for a vision. So he was out there crying for
a vision, and he said it's either on a third
or fourth day. He tells his story on Aubrey March podcast.
If you're looking for another podcast to listen to in

(02:34:57):
between spaced Out Radio, if there's any breaks in spaced
Out Radio, listen to this podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:35:03):
Guys.

Speaker 9 (02:35:03):
It will It will definitely change your life. Find it.

Speaker 7 (02:35:05):
It's Aubrey Marcus, Chief, Bear Cross and Chase Iron Eyes.
It's just a couple like a month or so ago.

Speaker 9 (02:35:11):
He put it out.

Speaker 7 (02:35:12):
Anyways, he talks to going back to this vision. His
grandpa shared this vision. He was out there and this
man come come that something happened and basically a UFO
come down and this this man come out and he
come walking over to him, and his grandpa started talking

(02:35:33):
to him. He said, he asked him a few questions,
but the one that really struck me was and he's
talking to this et that come out that land on
the spacecraft come over walking over to him. It's a
little green man. He described it as like three or
four feet tall. He's talking to him, but the the

(02:35:54):
ET's talking to him in Lakota. He's speaking his language
and they're talking back and forth in Lakota. Grandpa said,
where do I come from? And the et says, which
means that big rock right there, and he points, he
points up at a rock. He points out one of
the in a constellation, the Big Dipper constellation. He said,

(02:36:17):
he said, you come from that big rock right there,
and then he left.

Speaker 2 (02:36:25):
That.

Speaker 1 (02:36:25):
Okay, that's a cliffhanger. That's a cliffhanger because, okay, when
we look at the our origin story, which potentially goes
to Mars, I don't know if that's attaka A. I
don't know if that translates to marsataka.

Speaker 7 (02:36:41):
A translates to that big rock right there, and he
point he pointed out a rock and a constellation. The
Lakotas believed that they come their origin story comes from
a collapse star in.

Speaker 9 (02:36:57):
The mill in the Big Dipper.

Speaker 7 (02:37:00):
Okay, and there's there's other there's other places that, uh
you know, there's other tribes that they they have different
stars and different but all all these different tribes. My
point being that all these different tribes that it's repeated
over and over again, they they are come they come
from different star systems like they they claim that they

(02:37:23):
they vision their visions, their dream their dreamers, their visionaries,
their prophets of their tribes have have come forth and
agreed that these they come from these different star systems,
not here, and all of them, all of them are
not from all of us. I believe all of us
are not from here.

Speaker 1 (02:37:43):
In a situation, in a scenario if we look at
three at lists, which people who just already think it
is common don't want to have this exercise, but just
think if this thing ends up being let's just say
it is alien technology, it's a muther, it's coming in
and it gets here, and then we find out that

(02:38:06):
you know, it's for this particular species and we're related
to them, or whatever the story is gonna end up
being at the end of the day, or they're here
to just devour our souls or whatever it is that
they might be here to do. I think it's just
going to be a telling moment. And it just makes
me think of stories like that where it's like we're

(02:38:26):
are what is our true origin? And as you may
have heard also recently in the last actually a couple
of weeks, two three weeks, NASA came out and kind
of said that there was life. They confirmed ancient life
on Mars, which is bacterial, microbial life, but it just

(02:38:47):
goes a step further to say that there was life there.
And I feel like once we get there, once we
land foot there, if we have shovels and we start digging,
that we're going to see things that look there are familiar.
And truthfully, what if that was the case across the
entire universe? What if life is is very abundant in

(02:39:12):
the soul of system, Like, what if life is just
a thing that definitely happens, you know, everywhere? What if
what if? I've been thinking about that lately with all
this stuff going on. What if it's everywhere?

Speaker 9 (02:39:27):
I think it is.

Speaker 7 (02:39:28):
I think I think our understanding of what life is
is going to change, you know, And I think, uh,
you know I heard uh uh Tom whitmore right, yep, Tom, Okay, Yeah,
I heard he was speaking about how, you know, real disclosure.
They're they're they're talking about religion. They're they're reaching out

(02:39:50):
to religious leaders and things like that. It's it's it's
scientific and it's it's deep really religious because the implications
of what's happening right now, just just the consciousness moving forward.
It's it's shifting consciousness. Even having these discussions of alien
ship may or may not coming, like you gotta you

(02:40:12):
gotta break it down for what it is, like what
it is at it's based this conversation of the Atlas
comment coming or a ka mothership, whether whether or not
it's a mothership or a comment is mute at this
point because it's starting. It's bringing up this conversation that

(02:40:33):
it may be, and that in itself is opening people's
consciousness up, which in itself is moving the whole thing
forward because energy, our own energy is moving this thing forward.
I know, I could tell I can tell you that
for a fact that you know, we are manifesting this
reality together and you know the deeper these conversations go

(02:40:59):
on a whole you know, this is this Atlas comment.
Thing is is you know it's mainstream news. You know
there's there's mainstream news agencies talking about this may be
an alien mothership. That conversation in itself is opening up
the possibility for it to happen.

Speaker 9 (02:41:17):
Because it's whether whether it's a rock or a highly.

Speaker 7 (02:41:23):
Technical spaceship, it's it's it's still in our minds. It's
it's moving, it's people are going to bed at night
having dreams that are influenced by these thoughts, and you know, it's, uh,
the story goes on and on on, but it's our
energy that's that's doing this, coupled with.

Speaker 9 (02:41:42):
What it may or may not be.

Speaker 1 (02:41:44):
And if you look around, as you said, on the
national stage, it's been amazing me, truthfully, that that they
can continue to talk to Ovlock because he said what
he said, and it's like, okay, that's the initial statement
is he thinks it's forty chance. Okay, And you can't
really go too much further than that until we actually
get more data on it or see it, which won't

(02:42:06):
happen till next week. So it's just been surprising me
that they continue to host Avy Lobe on these national shows,
and it's you know, maybe it's because they feel that
there's some validity there, or maybe they just understand that
just having the conversation is important, so they're they're open
to doing that, you know, and when you see UFOs

(02:42:30):
get talked about now, you know, the ridicule is almost gone.
The stuff that was there just only a few years
ago where you couldn't get a newscast to talk about
it without all the weird stuff. Now they're kind of
talking about with a straight face. And sometimes I even
see concern from some of these newscasters on they're really

(02:42:52):
trying to find out. They're asking Jeremy Corbell really good
questions like, man, what is this? What are we you know?
And I think that's kind of where we need to
be at as a community, especially with the news outlets.
They need to be very you know, in tune with
the subject and what's going on. This should be reported

(02:43:13):
on just as much as who did what in the
in Congress or who did what, even though in the other.

Speaker 9 (02:43:21):
Country it's the biggest story of history. It's the biggest
story of history.

Speaker 7 (02:43:25):
Like and anyone that's just to mention Chris real quick,
anyone that's meant that has doubted Chris, Like the dude
went to DC and made it happen in front of
a bunch of people that he needed to make it happen.
So whether it's him doing it or whether he has
some agreement, nonetheless he is making He's opened people's minds,

(02:43:50):
he's opened people's hearts, and I commend him for that.
He's my brother and I love him and now back
into the day I die.

Speaker 9 (02:43:56):
But for me, the real.

Speaker 7 (02:44:01):
Thing that I'm falling in love with now is seeing
and knowing that there's an invisible force around you. It
loves you, it supports you, and it wants.

Speaker 9 (02:44:11):
The best for you. And all you have to do
is accept, accept love within your heart and.

Speaker 7 (02:44:20):
Start, you know, going into faith more and more whatever
whatever that face looks like, whatever you call it, but
there is something there and it's around us all the time,
and it's it's magical, it's and it's beautiful, and it
loves you. And I guarantee that's the truth. And I

(02:44:40):
know that more now than what I than I ever have.

Speaker 1 (02:44:43):
Well, that's awesome place to leave off for tonight.

Speaker 3 (02:44:45):
Man.

Speaker 1 (02:44:46):
Well I got to welcome you back now for sure,
glad to have you back, and I'm sure everyone else
ouse out there is as well. And those on Team
Replay will have a pleasant surprise when they get around
to watching the show to see the Drew Banks back
on the hour three. So a lot more conversations to come.
We'll be back here tomorrow doing the exact same thing.

(02:45:07):
We'll be talking more about Chris blast, so I'm still,
you know, looking into I know he was involved with it.
I don't know specifically how it all played out because
I don't think he's even I think he went on
with Ross Coulthar recently. I need to get up to
speed on that. We'll probably talk about that more tomorrow.
Do you have anything you want to go ahead and

(02:45:28):
leave everybody with before we get out of here.

Speaker 7 (02:45:31):
No, you know, just one thing more about Chris's I
didn't even know he was on the Charlie kirk Show.

Speaker 3 (02:45:37):
He had.

Speaker 7 (02:45:38):
He did like fifteen and twenty minutes on Charlie Kirkshow
a few years ago, and he was talking about the
connection between Christianity and what he does and everything. So
it wasn't political or anything. I know, there's a lot
of a lot of that name even triggers things, but
it was all about religion and the connection between UFOs

(02:46:00):
and religion and stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:46:01):
Like that, and that's awesome stuff. We definitely want to
thank our guests for tonight, tom with more coming in,
having an awesome conversation on government, UFOs. What's the connection
you talked to MJ twelve A lot of great stuff.
Make sure you guys go back and rewatch that if
you need to. Also thank Steve's doctor tells her told

(02:46:22):
miss person missteries. This guy right here who's back in
the building, Drew Banking. We also want to thank you
out there, the viewers and that man you hear right there.
Who is that? That is Ron Bumma Football. He rocks
us each in and out of each and every show.
Let us know to never say never again because yes,
the phenomenon is real, which means anything and everything is possible.

(02:46:44):
If you enjoyed the show tonight everything we talked about,
make sure you hit the light button. Also throw your
horns up well. Also, I want to thank our viewers
online and listeners on terrestrial radio and digital platforms wherever
and whenever in the world you may be watch you from.
We appreciate you for tuning your frequency the Space Out
Radio where we do what we do best. What's that,

(02:47:07):
Drew Banky. We own the night, We on the night.
Remember the shows copyright Big Flip Beat the Bitch is
limited in SR Space Out Radio. It has been a
pleasure of serving you once again as your host. I'm
mister Rob G. This is Drew Banky UPO A point
right that's Drew Banking for all your space tables out there.
That's not a goodbye North farewell. However, you can best

(02:47:29):
believe if we go off air for the night, we
will be back doing the same thing, same time, same place.
Make sure you're there. We would love to see you
back at the great rest of your night. Guys, we're
out of here. Take care,