August 26, 2025 • 41 mins
Welcome to Spacing Out With BB and Jason! We’re covering Foundation, and this week we’re discussing season 3, episode 7, “Foundation’s End”. Thanks for joining us!
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpacingOutPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spacing_out_podcast/
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpacingOutPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spacing_out_podcast/
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpacingOutPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spacing_out_podcast/
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpacingOutPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spacing_out_podcast/
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason, this week
covering Foundation season three, episode seven, Foundations End.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Spacing Out.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm BB and I'm Jason, and we are discussing the
Apple TV sci fi series Foundation one episode at a time,
covering season three week to week. And you might be
listening to us on our Foundation podcast, but we do
have our main channel, Spacing Out with Bheb and Jason.
We've covered a lot of different shows on there. Some
Battlestar Galactica. Our flag means death, Alien. We'll be covering
(00:40):
Alien Earth in a while. I know it's already started
coming out and there's a lot of buzz around it,
but we'll get to that after Foundation.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh my god, I opened Hulu and I saw it
was on and I was like, oh my god, it's here,
It's here, and I'm kind of a scaredy cat. So
part of me is really excited, and another part of
me is really scared to watch like a horror show
because that's kind of the root of Alien, right, It's
a little bit of horror, like body horror.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So excited though.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, So we'll be delayed on that, but we will
cover it. We've been we recorded some Predator episodes and
we're going to build up to Predator bad Lands, which
comes out in November.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh wow, so we're Alien versus Predator on the horizon.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I also wanted to mention
so the first podcast we did together was covering the
show Superstore, And I bring that up because someone wrote
in and let us know that John Miahara, who played
Brett and Superstar has passed away.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Oh about the machine, Yes, oh man, that's rip to
a real one. Brett was awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, Brett was honestly, Like I mean, he wasn't a
huge character in the show, but he was always president
and the joke around Brett were like always my favorite.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So also, he's emblematic of the kind of diversity and
relationships that you develop when you're working in a place
like that where outside of you know, your circle of friends,
you would never interact with an older gentleman like that.
Like the relationship that he had with his coworkers. He
was like iconic. He was a legend in his own right,
(02:25):
and so it's really great to see people represented like
that in the workplace because that's real. You see older
people working from same with like that. What was her name, Muriel.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Or Myrtle Myrtle? Yeah, so yeah, So I thought that
was some sad news and I wanted to bring it
up because we don't it's been quite a few years
when did anything on the Superstore podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So should we do an in memoriam so that we
can watch every scene that Brett was in?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
It would be nice. Thank you Anthony for bringing that
to our attention. Still our most popular podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, it's a great show. I definitely check it out
if you haven't. A Superstore podcast is out there and
it's a great workplace comedy.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Anyway, back this episode of Foundation years ago on Russum,
the Mules backstory is revealed, where his parents tried to
kill him to comply with the Foundation's rules. The new
Terminus is torn apart by the Mules forces. Mayor Indobur surrenders,
later drowning himself on the Mules orders on Micagen under
the effects of strong jace hallucinogens. Day reveals early interactions
(03:34):
with Demerzal. Dusk protects Foundation ambassador Quint at the Palace
and they share a romance. On Pitcher escapes from captivity,
Beta is captured by the Mules forces, Torn escapes and
Randu is killed that the vault Harry Selden meets the Mule.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Five. Check did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
What a crazy episode. It had everything. I mentioned to Jason,
I was like, this movie had like murder and sex
and drugs, and you know, if Bednifico would have shown up,
it would have had rock and roll. It had everything.
(04:16):
I was so into this episode. I want to watch
it again. It's so good.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, what this season has done for me is like
I'm excited to rewatch the show, including season one. Like
I've really like softened on season one because I feel
like it's tying in so much to the overall story.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Not for me, not for me. It was tragic. Season
one was something that I think they didn't know what
they were doing and they were trying to figure out
their voice and their vision for the show. But here
in season three, they've really like found the foundation. They
found the like world building and the the energy that
(04:58):
this show needs to have. Like very it's so graphic,
it's so graphic, like what's his name? The guy, the
guy who's married to Beta tourn turn turn, what he
went through just now that's trauma. That's real trauma that
a lot of people are experiencing in countries that are
(05:19):
war torn, and to see it on film at this
moment in time is very impactful. So I really think
that this show is like doing something in terms of
like playing out the fall of humanity.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah, it's it's a very exciting episode, but also like
it's tragic, like it's it's not going well for anyone. No,
unless you're a fan of the Mule, which some people
might be, you know, yeah, it's we don't know what
Gale's up to. But otherwise, like everyone is going through
some shit.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Trivia time, what facts or news could we uncover for
Foundation's end?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
So this was Foundation Sees three, episode seven, Foundations End.
This aired on August twenty second, twenty twenty five, Written
by Jane Espenson and Greg Gates and directed by Christopher J. Byrne.
It's three in a row he's directed. Then there's a
little connection with demerzal So. She admits she had many names,
including Danil, which is a reference to Danil Oliva, the
(06:20):
robot first introduced in Asimov's Caves of Steals, one of
the robot novels Okay, so it's making clear that connection
that those stories are part of this too. D'anils later
linked to orchestrating a grand master plan and novel Foundation
and Earth, and he also plays a role in the
prequel novels Prelude the Foundation and Forward the Foundation. That's
it for Trivia.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts
on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
through email or social media. We may use your comments
on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
What do you want to start with?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Jo, don't even know where to begin.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And start in the past with the Mule.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
No, I don't like that. I like that they kept
that a secret. You didn't know whose story it was.
You just knew it was a story of what seems
to be like a tenant farmer and their family. But
it's like a mother and you think of the stories
about the mother first and how she's got her two kids.
And then the Foundation shows or no, the Empire shows up.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
No, it's the Foundation.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
It's the Foundation.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Oh yeah, because the Whisper ships were there. Yeah, so
the Foundation shows up and they have a very imperial
way of ruling people, which is very interesting.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, and that's like part of the I guess complexity
that the show was working out with us is like
there's no like clear good grain dad here. It's like
the one thing that the Foundation might be doing is
minimizing the suffering from the fall of the empire. But
they're very much acting like an empire. There's a pressure
happening yeah under them as well.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So like having the note the one child policy in place,
very you know, we're very familiar with it because of
China's policy for one child, and I thought it was
interesting that they didn't punish them right away. The punishment
(08:24):
was for them to choose, Yeah, choose which child will
be present your next month. You have but thirty days
to choose which child you want to keep. And to me,
it was a no brainer. Can't get rid of the baby,
like you don't know this baby, but they chose their
(08:46):
their you know, preteen son instead, And little did we
know that was the mule and his origins.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, but once you realize it, like, that's really good
casting that kid. But they were implying that the Foundation
would take the baby.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, probably raise it on some other world to become
you know, a slave or something. I don't know what, Like,
I don't know how this works. Give it to a
more rich family, but they're like rationing food. They're only
giving you enough food for so many mouths to feed.
And like, you know, I don't think this was part
of Harry Selden's dream, but he knew that the Foundation
(09:30):
would have a period of religion and then commerce and trade.
So you know, if anybody knows anything about capitalism, you
know that there's going to be winners and losers. And
so it's fucked up to think that this was part
of the plan. And the mule is literally product of
(09:54):
his environment, and because of his abilities, he was able
to like fight off his father and then murder his
mother and father, which honestly, I don't blame him for
what would you do with the people who wanted you dead?
And what would you do with the power the or
(10:16):
the you know, the empire or the foundation that brought
that decision onto everybody, because that was not a decision
that had to be made. I don't know. Also, I'm
thinking in this in the Foundation, abortion's probably illegal or
not illegal legal, it's probably a legal option if you're
only allowing people to have one child. Yeah, so that's
(10:38):
kind of crazy because they went from super religious to
like only one baby, So anything after that, you know,
you got to get rid of it. So that's an
interesting pivot. But I feel like if I did get
pregnant and I knew the rules, I would just get
an abortion and not have to choose.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Or are they going to hide the second child forever? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Like, and like, why wouldn't they have something to make
the baby quiet? You know during deep like uh, you
know when a slaves ran away from their plantation, they
would bring their children and they would have things to
quiet their children down whenever they were under like, uh,
(11:19):
they were being followed and searched for. You would quiet
that baby down if you really cared. And also did
they all have to be present? Mom could have just
taken the baby to the back and been like, dad,
let dad handle this. What kind of plan was this?
And the old.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Neighbors could have watched it for a few minutes and
then swapped back.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Well, and then like she had to dig through that
kid's candy drawer to take the candy out to try
to shut the baby up. What if that kid had
eaten that candy? What if that wasn't there? What was
your plan then very poorly prepared people. I'm sorry, I
don't have any sympathy for them and their fall.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I mean, they made themselves in this position. They put
themselves in a position to have to choose between two children.
They could have chosen at conception. But maybe there's no
like sex education and no access to abortion, which makes
this one child rule really fucked up. But I guess,
I mean call it a late term abortion, super late
(12:20):
for that kid.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I wonder is that rule in place across the foundation
or just.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
On that one planet? Yeah, yeah, well, or maybe it's
just on a class of people. Is it like class
based where because we feed you, you're only allowed to
have one kid, but if you are rich enough, you
can have as many kids you want. So it's a
really interesting world building, and it's really highlighting how there
(12:47):
aren't any good guys or bad guys here. We don't
know who is best, right, So now we're all like, well,
I'm glad we have a second foundation to depend on.
That seems a little bit nicer, But I don't know.
Gail also just destroyed a planet.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's what I'm saying, Like, no one's.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
No one's pure there's no purity, there's no clear version
of good and evil, and it's very gray, very gray.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, this is a little off topic, but we were talking.
I think it was the last episode, maybe it's one before.
I'm about salvor zygoat. Yeah, and I read just some
to clarify on it that the practice of them harvesting
the zygoats continued on terminus, So that's why she would
have had one.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh, okay, so is it a zygoat that belonged to
to Salar? So it was her unborn embr so clump. Well, yeah,
it's a clump of cells. So a zygo is basically
what happens after a sperm and an egg meat, It
creates a zygot, a clump of cells. So that's because
(13:52):
I was confused. I'm like, so is it Salvar or
is it salv War's zygoat? Like the thing that she
carried in her womb for maybe never Yeah, because they
all she had to do was donate an egg.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
So so yeah, so if that winds up becoming a person,
it would be her descendant. Yeah, which half the fact
that they brought it up makes me think we will
probably see that at some.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Point, maybe after the Mule maybe.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, all right, I think I want to do a
spoiler section at the end of this episode just to
talk about a few things, And one is that the
Mule's background is very different in the show than what
was in the books.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That's already too much spoilers. We need to save that Jason.
So the Mule then goes to the Foundation to Terminus
and Riek's havoc, and it looks like the Mayor was
in cohotes with him the whole time, the whole time,
But I don't know if that's like factual, or if
(14:49):
the Mule had some influence over him, or as soon
as he touched down he had influence and made him bow.
I don't know if that was something that the Mayor
did from their own will or from the will of
the Mule. It's not clear.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, it's not clear because I wouldn't put it past
that guy to just surrender and Neil like that. He's
a little weasel the only time, Like, I'm certain he
was under controls when he drowned himself, but I don't
feel like he was under control like prior to the
mules erect, right.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
He was just setting himself up and because nobody warned
him about the mule except for Pritcher, who he hates.
He was like, well, let me get with the mule
and then let me capture Pritcher to give to the mule.
And that's fucked up, dude, Like that's the whole situation
was scary, and it was horrifying to witness, to like
(15:43):
watch like as a viewer, like the war that came
the destruction. I wouldn't even call it a war because
those were not soldiers, those were civilians.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah, and that kind of caught me off guard. It's
like how much of the conflict we were seeing from
a like a personal perspective with a lot of the
characters Beta and Torn and Han Pritcher, Like watching from
his cell was like kind of devastating in its own way.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, Like imagine being somebody who is capable of like
potentially swaying people and moving and like not like being
stuck in a cell with your hands tied. Basically, he
and the scene where he bites his wrist is so visceral,
it's so shocking and fucking desperation. Like the desperation was
(16:36):
like visible there, like you could feel it, and that
actor did such a convincing job of like conveying the
emotion and like kind of like amping himself up, like
breathing and like getting ready to do something fucking crazy.
But it was very successful. It was very successful.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah. I do question like what sort of like psychic
powers he does have. He doesn't seem to use any
sort of manipulation And it.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Did though, because when they went to his cell, they
thought that was him.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, but he never like convinced anyone to let him
out or anything.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I don't think he wants to use those powers, like
you know, all willy nilly, And it might be something different,
like every one of those people has different powers. Maybe
he only has the power to read minds and not
change them like the mule, you know. Yeah, so it's
hard to say what his powers are. But yeah, it's
(17:31):
really interesting that he didn't use any of them against
his captors, but he did get away, and I thought
it was a very interesting choice that instead of fleeing
he went planet side.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, and I think that was smart because what he
doesn't want to do is run to the Second Foundation, right,
hopefully he knows that much, though I do not know
what his plan is.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I don't either I mean, hopefully he meets up with
Beta or something. Hopefully he can rescue her or something.
I know that that's not his role, but like her character,
I feel like is really important to this story somehow.
Her and her husband I forget his name.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, he is torn and the uncle is randw okay.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So their storyline incredible, like they're trying to bring together
these factions and then all of a sudden they're thrust
into this conflict and all he can do is grab
his unconscious wife and run, run, run, run until he
finds safety. And then his uncle comes in and is
(18:40):
like all manipulated, and he's like conflicted because even though
he has his issues with his uncle and his disagreements,
that's still his family. And you can see the devastation
that it brings him to see his uncle under the
influence of the mule and the hard decision he had
to make to escape and kill his uncle and leave
(19:02):
his wife behind.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, he had to accept those losses at that point
for what they were.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think his characters really developing, and I'm like really
curious to see what happens to Beta when she wakes up.
If she wakes up, you know, because she's been unconscious
for a really long time. That's scary.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, and then the ship says it's working on her,
but then Randu like shoots, It shoots.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
The Yeah, it breaks the ice machine and everything. So
I'm like, holy crap. You know this like seemingly rapid
couple is now like kind of like your every man
and how they would move through this situation, like you
would hope that you were capable of doing what he
did to the extent that he did it. It's not perfect,
(19:47):
but it's like necessary. And where is he going? Where
is he going to end up? He has such valuable
information about the Mule Now.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, and we never saw Magnifico. I don't know where
he I.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Don't know what happened to him. Yeah, he might be
captured by now, or he could have escaped, who knows.
I'm hoping that Pritcher finds him and can amplify hit
whatever powers he has, but you know, who knows what's
going to happen.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Wow, I mean that the shit on Terminus Like for me,
it gave the show a new gravity, like a new
like feel that this show has never had before. It's
had fight scenes, it's had wars, it's had destruction of planets,
but this felt different somehow. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
And it's also because it's outside of the plan of psychohistory,
like none of is this supposed to happen?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, I mean immediately when somebody asked him about the
Mule and the mule showed up, Harry Selden's hologram shut
down and kicked everyone out.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And as soon as the Mule comes planet side and
wreaks havoc again with like murdering the mayor and you know,
challenging authority and not even challenging authority, changing authority, like
becoming authority. And now he goes to meet the man
who made him kill his parents, and I like that.
(21:16):
Harry Seldon's like if that story is even true, because
you know, the mule is a manipulator, so how do
we know? How can we trust his version of events?
That's like the untrustworthy narrator kind of shit. Yeah, that
was a great scene to leave it at, though, where
the mules like smiling at Harry Seldon horrifying. What's going
(21:37):
to happen next?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
You want to talk about day or dusk?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I feel like Dusk is pretty simple. He's in charge
now and he's also going crazy. Yeah, so it's like,
holy shit, Uh, that guy just fucking stepped on a
ferret and he's in charge and he has a fucking
black hole gun.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
He really doesn't like the animals, and the animals are loose. Yeah,
and he seems to be struggling for a moment there
in the throne room and then he pulls it together
and he's the one in charge.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, but he gets very vague instructions like just keep
an eye on Terminus and bring us, you know, gather
all the troops. Okay, then and then what then?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Stand by?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
That's kind of what he said. Basically.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
It was just very like I need to go have
a three day romance.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
So yeah, I'm about to expire Bropefully the boss Lady
will be back. Where the fuck is Demersal? She was
in this episode, but she wasn't talk about flashbacks. When
brother Day was reminiscing about his childhood and he asked her,
would you love us or would you rather have your freedom?
(22:54):
I think he was also asking that to Song. So
that was like very clever, very dumb Blantandra, very like,
you know, him asking a question and answering it himself
because he knows that freedom is more than love. Oh
what great, amazing, I love it. It's great. And then
I like how they set up the hallucigen scene where
(23:16):
it's kind of like ritual and practice of like part
of like a cultural thing, and how they like included
the devices that were creating or like preparing the hallucigen
as part of his hallucigen hallucination. So like at one
point he's in the tea bath like drowning, and then
(23:38):
he's out of it and he's like all what, and
it was like very interesting. And then he's naked, and
then he's in the palace and then he's a child,
and it was really I thought I really liked it.
I thought it was interesting. And then he would like
become lucid and kind of be able to hear song
asking him the questions, but then he would veer off
and you know, meander to another part of his like
(24:02):
unconscious mind. So it's very interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Yeah, very like disjointed in a good way because you know,
like dream sequences or like these hallucin adjacent sequences can
often be housey.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, they can be hokey.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Or like just too on the nose about what the
message is there, But yeah, that was an interesting trip. Yeah,
and then and you get a little bit about like
his his issues issues with demersal right, because he really
hates her. But I think he hates her because she
her love isn't genuine. Yeah right, it's programmed. And I
(24:40):
think like the Robot people were really upset.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
To find that out. They're like, oh, you fuck you
fucking broke her. You are imprisoning her, and that's fucking real.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah. Yeah, and the Micagen people very much see him
as the same as the clones as he yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Even though he himself was very clear that they're all
different and they're all unique, and they're getting worse according
to him, and I feel like there's a little truth
to that. So it's very interesting to see that and
to to then meet a new character with another set
of abs. How many guys in this universe have just
(25:21):
impeccable abs. That character did not need to have abs.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
That character came in like abs first.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
That was the like that was who auditioned for this role,
was his abs. Yeah, They're like, okay, yeah, we see
the face shots, but lift your shirt up please. Yeah,
that'll work. You're hired. You don't have to read anything
you're in.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Do you think that the emperors are like designed to
have that body with the the abs and the pecks
or do they actually have to like work for it.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
I think it's both right, because there's genetic traits that
get passed down, and part of it is physique. So
if your family has if you have a family of
fat people, you're gonna most likely be fat, and you're
gonna work very hard to not be fat. So if
you come from a lineage of like athletic people, it's
(26:19):
going to be a little bit easier for you to
be athletic and strong. And even the old guy Dusk
had some picks when he was rolling around in the
bed with that old lady he is, physique wasn't bad.
It wasn't sagging, so I think, And even like brother
don is, even though he's more sinewy and like slightly
(26:41):
less built, he's still not like a fat person. Obviously,
when you live in an environment where they feed you
a specific diet and they watch everything that you do,
I'm sure that there's a regimen there. I'm sure. And
you know, brother Day and this iteration is probably still
(27:04):
somehow programmed. Even though they you know, they're human. I
feel like there's still like things that they probably instill
in them from young from childhood, like you wake up
and you do forty push ups or whatever.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
But I mean it must be given his lifestyle. I
don't know how long he's been kind of living in
this like drugs, laying a drugs.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
But you don't know if he's you know, even people
who are on drugs that you might still wake up
in the morning and go for a jog. You might
still choose to take care of your body even though
you're chilling out.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
So I don't possibly, but we just don't see that
now a motivation in him.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
That's not something that creates a character interest, you know,
unless you want to see like I don't know. To me,
it's like part of the fantasy to see like a
perfect body. It's part of a fantasy to say that
that's natural, because that's not okay. There's no way that
a guy who doesn't work out is going to look
like that ever. But yeah, another set of abs. I
(28:04):
want to see the mules abs next.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Oh, they bring up this the point how Day really
despises the fact that he was created and not born
and they give him that moment with the belly button
to kind of showing what he really wishes.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Oh, I didn't know that was fake. They don't have belly.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Buttons, no, because we saw him early in the season
without belly button.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Oh, belly buttons are overrated. Okay, but yeah, I guess
he does wish he was born. I didn't that was
very I didn't recognize that. I forgot that he's not human.
You know, he was created in a lab. But they
could add a belly button at any moment. I'm just saying,
like they choose not to give him a belly button.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Rude.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yep, he just wants something to pick it out.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Of his camel's walking them out, and.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
His ferret got squshed.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Bro, he's gonna be so upset by that.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
He's gonna go on a murder spree when he finds out.
I wonder what he's gonna do with these robot people though,
because they obviously hate him.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
They do, but they definitely are going to want Demersal
and to want to free her.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, but little do they know that by destroying him,
they get closer to freeing her. Yeah, And I think
we're adding another player into the mix of like the
fall of Empire.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
And we don't really know if he told them that
or not.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I don't think he knows. I don't think he knows
that she serves Empire and not him, true, because there's
a distinct difference that we've seen play out in her
literally murdering versions of himself. So I don't think he
realizes that he could go. You know, him missing is
not something that's going to affect the Empire, and one
(29:43):
way or another, she just acants another one.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, But so he's now face to face with the
leader of mikea Jin.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I thought he'd be older.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
It's Dunmaster eighteen, I believe Al, which is a character
from the books. Also, Demerzal gives herself previous names. I
mentioned O'Neil earlier, and then Ato was another name she
mentioned which is in the books. It is Ato. Demerzal
is a character that is the role that she's taking on.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Basically, that was a good episode though overall, very very
pleased with where this is going and how it's becoming
a very tangled web that you're just kind of caught
up in and you're just waiting for the next little
piece of the puzzle to come through.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah, and it's feeling a little, a little desperate. I
don't know how.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I mean, yeah, there's only three episodes left and we
don't know if they've cleared for season four. This is
like you can feel the energy and the show is
like changing. But the acting is so good. I can't
believe the acting right now. The acting for me is
just like what's making it like so good right now?
I can't believe where it's at right now with these actors.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Yeah, do you think we'll see another Dawn? I don't
know the seasoned I don't know, man, because I don't.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I mean, maybe he had to go shoot another's maybe
they had to write them off. Who knows. I don't know.
I can't say for sure.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Well, demerzal get back and be like, I know, shit's wild,
but I'm also a clock and there's something that's happened,
So we got to get a new day then turn
them into don real quick, yeah, or in the dust
real quick. Also, just I'm trying to track like some
of the loose ends that have happened in the show
with the Dawn and the Cloud Princess escaping, like when
(31:29):
they think come of that we just saw that the
Mule had a younger sibling, right, think it's potentially an
adult now.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And also has powers. Maybe who knows, maybe they got
recruited into the Foundation or two the second Foundation, because
usually they try to find these kids. Yeah, so I'm like,
what is go weed on when.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
We mentioned Salvor's Zyegot could potentially come into play at
some point, but I guess that would be after a
time jump probably.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah. I'm so sad that this show doesn't have of
Like I really I've fallen in love with these characters,
and I'm like part of me is devastated that they're
probably not going to make it to the next season.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of the nature of it that
we jump to another era and the only ones coming
with us seem to be Gale and Harry.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
An empire, an Empire, and Immersal yep. So I don't know,
we'll see. I'm very interested. The show is just like
developing so beautifully and authentically to me, like the fall
of humanity is so real right now, and I don't know,
I'm just very invested as a viewer, So I'm going
(32:40):
to be really sad if it ends in season three
but I feel like they're doing such a great job
with it that I'm not worried for the ending.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah. I mean, if this culminates in a way that
is satisfying, like it could be a really strong ending.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah, I mean there's still move there. I feel like
they could end it really well, but they could also
leave it like some ends loose, because I feel like
good stories don't tell you everything. They don't close it
all the way. You always leave a little crack, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Oh, one other loose end out there was Harry Selden,
the human version of him. Like, I don't buy that.
What happened at the beginning of the season is the
end of that character, right.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
He went away with that weird lady and that third
fourth dimension door or whatever that was weird. Yeah, he
just disappeared. So who knows? And who is this lady?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I don't we never got any answers.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
We don't know who this lady is.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
She make him into human again?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
And why does she take him away? Who knows?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Astral Queen, who was the standout character in the episode.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Who's your astral Queen? I have two and they're both
on terminus.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
I'm guessing you're thinking either toryn or Han picture. Yeah,
those are the two I have in mind as well.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, I think I'm gonna go for Torn because he was.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Torn nice because I was thinking Precher.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, so that's that's I think that's where I'm gonna go.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
H Yeah, I mean it was hard in this episode
because often I'm thinking about like, either you know who,
like who did the most to kind of save the
day in a sense, or who kind of just had
to endure the worst and get through it and I
feel like the better, Like nobody was successful in this
episode at stopping anything horrible from happening, but Han Pritcher
(34:32):
was able to manipulate his situation is supposedly on his
way to doing some good.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, I mean he had to endure imprisonment and watch
as his community fell because he's part of both, right,
He's he's he's very unique in the fact that he
works with both foundations. He knows what's at stake. He
lives and breathes the teachings of Harry Selden. He knew
(34:58):
the man, and to see Harry Selden's dream fall apart
and not be able to do anything is devastating, and
that moment when he decided he's going to do something drastic, iconic,
like literally like goosebumps, like you could not look away,
but like part of you was like disgusted to see it.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yeah. And it's not just like I got to get
out of here to save myself. It's like the mule
cannot find me. Yeah, because that is the end of everything. Yeah,
and then, you know, torn, I cannot believe that these
two characters that we met in the first episode sitting
on that beach being annoyed by the war going on,
are so meaningful to us now.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I know. It's crazy. And he did all of this
in that slutty little shirt.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
He dragged that woman through a battlefield in that slutty
little shirt. Icon legend, impeccable, amazing. I kind of wish though,
that when he was getting beat up by those people,
those militia, that he got a little bit more beat up,
like a little bit more beat up, just to make
it look like he really struggled, just a little more blood,
(36:09):
a little black eye something, you know, because he's too pretty,
they need to rough him up.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Even Randy was like, you've never been through anything in
your life.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, but he has no idea what he just went through.
So it was good. It was such a good episode.
And I don't know, it's crazy that I started off
this show like really apprehensive, really against it, and now
it's like I look forward to it.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, so Torn, and I'm pretchuer. Your awards will be
sent to you wherever you end up. Probably shouldn't send
him the terminus. Right now, we're going to do a
real quick little spoiler section kind of talking about potential
storylines based on what happened in the novels. So if
you don't want to hear that, then don't keep listening.
(36:56):
But the next episode we will cover will be season
three episode eight, Skin in the Game, and we will
see you next week.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Let's put our living stereo stylus in this.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Group race for impact Spoilers ahead. If you haven't read
the book series, now maybe the time to say goodbye.
Remember you can contact us at Spacingoutpod at gmail dot com,
find us on social media, share your thoughts and be
(37:25):
a part of the discussion. Spoilers in five four three
two one.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Okay, So the Mule. His backstory in the books is
that he's from a planet called Gaya and it is
in like future novels, how you actually learn about Gaya.
Guya is a planet where everyone is kind of connected
on the psychic level and including like everything about the
entire planet, all the nature, the even like the rocks
and everything to a lesser extent.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
But what are they eat? They can eat the things
that they're psychically connected to. Yeah, dude, I don't know,
I'd feel so good anyway.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
And it's fund like a lot of the book, just
like explaining all of it. So like that planet exists
and that's part of a whole other storyline. It's not
really connected to anything happening now. But we learned that
the Mule was from that planet and was kind of
a rebel from that planet, and that was his backstory,
and they've changed it in the show, and you know,
(38:22):
I don't know what that means, if they're they're not
looking to do any of those future storylines, or if
they just really wanted the Mule to have a more
personal connection to the Foundation, because in the books, I
think he was just an unhinged guy.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yeah no, this I like the surge and story a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
But also like wrapped up in the Gaya storyline from
the future novels. Is this search for the planet Earth,
which is, you know, kind of a mystery. Most people
don't even believe it's real, kind of like where did
humanity come from? That information's lost, but some people are
looking for it.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Okay, battle stuff, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
It does have to in it, but they do keep
like dropping mentions of Earth throughout this show without the
season particular, So I kind of wonder like, are we
gonna go there and future seasons or not. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Hopefully we have future seasons for it to develop, but.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I will say like once the Mule story wraps up,
the next like the sequel books from there are very
disconnected from all the storyline that's happening interest, So if
it does go there, I don't know what we would
be continuing any of these characters at all. Okay, but
Beta plays a big role in the books in stopping
(39:40):
the Mule, and the fact that she has now been
captured by his people makes you think that she will
get to have that role in the show. And we
didn't see doctor ebling Me in this episode doctor Bashir,
but it's those characters Beta, Torrin and ebling Me who
are working to find the second foundation alongside Magnificent, who
(40:04):
in the books is secretly the Mule. They are one character,
and Beta is the one that stops I believe she
kills ebling me because he's about to reveal the location
of the Second Foundation, and her doing that is what
stops the Mule from ever learning about it. Oh wow,
And so really like stalls him from taking over the
entire galaxy. Oh wow. So yeah, she plays a big role.
(40:26):
And then she also is immune to his control. Oh,
which I think I misspoke previously and said that that
wasn't the case. But noah, once I look here into
it again, like, yeah, he cannot control her.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
So that's exciting.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
That's what I'm looking forward to now, because originally didn't
seem like she was in a position to really play
that role. But now she is nice.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Nice. I like it. I like it a lot. I
love spoilers, I really do.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah. So three more episodes this season. It's almost stressful.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
It's almost stressful, it's almost yeah, but we're excited. I'm
excited anyway.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
All right, I think that does it for this. So
we'll see you next episode called Skin in the Game.
Thank you for spacing out with us. Remember to respect
and enjoy the pieces. Kind of ironic hearing that in
this episode pleats.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Thank you for spacing out with Bib and Jason. You
can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
or social media. Next time, we will cover Foundation season three,
episode eight, Skin in the Game. We hope you will
join us
Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason, this week
covering Foundation season three, episode seven, Foundations End.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Spacing Out.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm BB and I'm Jason, and we are discussing the
Apple TV sci fi series Foundation one episode at a time,
covering season three week to week. And you might be
listening to us on our Foundation podcast, but we do
have our main channel, Spacing Out with Bheb and Jason.
We've covered a lot of different shows on there. Some
Battlestar Galactica. Our flag means death, Alien. We'll be covering
(00:40):
Alien Earth in a while. I know it's already started
coming out and there's a lot of buzz around it,
but we'll get to that after Foundation.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh my god, I opened Hulu and I saw it
was on and I was like, oh my god, it's here,
It's here, and I'm kind of a scaredy cat. So
part of me is really excited, and another part of
me is really scared to watch like a horror show
because that's kind of the root of Alien, right, It's
a little bit of horror, like body horror.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So excited though.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, So we'll be delayed on that, but we will
cover it. We've been we recorded some Predator episodes and
we're going to build up to Predator bad Lands, which
comes out in November.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Oh wow, so we're Alien versus Predator on the horizon.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I also wanted to mention
so the first podcast we did together was covering the
show Superstore, And I bring that up because someone wrote
in and let us know that John Miahara, who played
Brett and Superstar has passed away.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Oh about the machine, Yes, oh man, that's rip to
a real one. Brett was awesome.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, Brett was honestly, Like I mean, he wasn't a
huge character in the show, but he was always president
and the joke around Brett were like always my favorite.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So also, he's emblematic of the kind of diversity and
relationships that you develop when you're working in a place
like that where outside of you know, your circle of friends,
you would never interact with an older gentleman like that.
Like the relationship that he had with his coworkers. He
was like iconic. He was a legend in his own right,
(02:25):
and so it's really great to see people represented like
that in the workplace because that's real. You see older
people working from same with like that. What was her name, Muriel.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Or Myrtle Myrtle? Yeah, so yeah, So I thought that
was some sad news and I wanted to bring it
up because we don't it's been quite a few years
when did anything on the Superstore podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
So should we do an in memoriam so that we
can watch every scene that Brett was in?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
It would be nice. Thank you Anthony for bringing that
to our attention. Still our most popular podcast.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, it's a great show. I definitely check it out
if you haven't. A Superstore podcast is out there and
it's a great workplace comedy.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Anyway, back this episode of Foundation years ago on Russum,
the Mules backstory is revealed, where his parents tried to
kill him to comply with the Foundation's rules. The new
Terminus is torn apart by the Mules forces. Mayor Indobur surrenders,
later drowning himself on the Mules orders on Micagen under
the effects of strong jace hallucinogens. Day reveals early interactions
(03:34):
with Demerzal. Dusk protects Foundation ambassador Quint at the Palace
and they share a romance. On Pitcher escapes from captivity,
Beta is captured by the Mules forces, Torn escapes and
Randu is killed that the vault Harry Selden meets the Mule.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Five. Check did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
What a crazy episode. It had everything. I mentioned to Jason,
I was like, this movie had like murder and sex
and drugs, and you know, if Bednifico would have shown up,
it would have had rock and roll. It had everything.
(04:16):
I was so into this episode. I want to watch
it again. It's so good.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, what this season has done for me is like
I'm excited to rewatch the show, including season one. Like
I've really like softened on season one because I feel
like it's tying in so much to the overall story.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Not for me, not for me. It was tragic. Season
one was something that I think they didn't know what
they were doing and they were trying to figure out
their voice and their vision for the show. But here
in season three, they've really like found the foundation. They
found the like world building and the the energy that
(04:58):
this show needs to have. Like very it's so graphic,
it's so graphic, like what's his name? The guy, the
guy who's married to Beta tourn turn turn, what he
went through just now that's trauma. That's real trauma that
a lot of people are experiencing in countries that are
(05:19):
war torn, and to see it on film at this
moment in time is very impactful. So I really think
that this show is like doing something in terms of
like playing out the fall of humanity.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Yeah, it's it's a very exciting episode, but also like
it's tragic, like it's it's not going well for anyone. No,
unless you're a fan of the Mule, which some people
might be, you know, yeah, it's we don't know what
Gale's up to. But otherwise, like everyone is going through
some shit.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Trivia time, what facts or news could we uncover for
Foundation's end?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
So this was Foundation Sees three, episode seven, Foundations End.
This aired on August twenty second, twenty twenty five, Written
by Jane Espenson and Greg Gates and directed by Christopher J. Byrne.
It's three in a row he's directed. Then there's a
little connection with demerzal So. She admits she had many names,
including Danil, which is a reference to Danil Oliva, the
(06:20):
robot first introduced in Asimov's Caves of Steals, one of
the robot novels Okay, so it's making clear that connection
that those stories are part of this too. D'anils later
linked to orchestrating a grand master plan and novel Foundation
and Earth, and he also plays a role in the
prequel novels Prelude the Foundation and Forward the Foundation. That's
it for Trivia.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts
on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
through email or social media. We may use your comments
on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
What do you want to start with?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Jo, don't even know where to begin.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
And start in the past with the Mule.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
No, I don't like that. I like that they kept
that a secret. You didn't know whose story it was.
You just knew it was a story of what seems
to be like a tenant farmer and their family. But
it's like a mother and you think of the stories
about the mother first and how she's got her two kids.
And then the Foundation shows or no, the Empire shows up.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
No, it's the Foundation.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
It's the Foundation.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Oh yeah, because the Whisper ships were there. Yeah, so
the Foundation shows up and they have a very imperial
way of ruling people, which is very interesting.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, and that's like part of the I guess complexity
that the show was working out with us is like
there's no like clear good grain dad here. It's like
the one thing that the Foundation might be doing is
minimizing the suffering from the fall of the empire. But
they're very much acting like an empire. There's a pressure
happening yeah under them as well.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So like having the note the one child policy in place,
very you know, we're very familiar with it because of
China's policy for one child, and I thought it was
interesting that they didn't punish them right away. The punishment
(08:24):
was for them to choose, Yeah, choose which child will
be present your next month. You have but thirty days
to choose which child you want to keep. And to me,
it was a no brainer. Can't get rid of the baby,
like you don't know this baby, but they chose their
(08:46):
their you know, preteen son instead, And little did we
know that was the mule and his origins.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yeah, but once you realize it, like, that's really good
casting that kid. But they were implying that the Foundation
would take the baby.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, probably raise it on some other world to become
you know, a slave or something. I don't know what, Like,
I don't know how this works. Give it to a
more rich family, but they're like rationing food. They're only
giving you enough food for so many mouths to feed.
And like, you know, I don't think this was part
of Harry Selden's dream, but he knew that the Foundation
(09:30):
would have a period of religion and then commerce and trade.
So you know, if anybody knows anything about capitalism, you
know that there's going to be winners and losers. And
so it's fucked up to think that this was part
of the plan. And the mule is literally product of
(09:54):
his environment, and because of his abilities, he was able
to like fight off his father and then murder his
mother and father, which honestly, I don't blame him for
what would you do with the people who wanted you dead?
And what would you do with the power the or
(10:16):
the you know, the empire or the foundation that brought
that decision onto everybody, because that was not a decision
that had to be made. I don't know. Also, I'm
thinking in this in the Foundation, abortion's probably illegal or
not illegal legal, it's probably a legal option if you're
only allowing people to have one child. Yeah, so that's
(10:38):
kind of crazy because they went from super religious to
like only one baby, So anything after that, you know,
you got to get rid of it. So that's an
interesting pivot. But I feel like if I did get
pregnant and I knew the rules, I would just get
an abortion and not have to choose.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Or are they going to hide the second child forever? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Like, and like, why wouldn't they have something to make
the baby quiet? You know during deep like uh, you
know when a slaves ran away from their plantation, they
would bring their children and they would have things to
quiet their children down whenever they were under like, uh,
(11:19):
they were being followed and searched for. You would quiet
that baby down if you really cared. And also did
they all have to be present? Mom could have just
taken the baby to the back and been like, dad,
let dad handle this. What kind of plan was this?
And the old.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Neighbors could have watched it for a few minutes and
then swapped back.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Well, and then like she had to dig through that
kid's candy drawer to take the candy out to try
to shut the baby up. What if that kid had
eaten that candy? What if that wasn't there? What was
your plan then very poorly prepared people. I'm sorry, I
don't have any sympathy for them and their fall.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
I mean, they made themselves in this position. They put
themselves in a position to have to choose between two children.
They could have chosen at conception. But maybe there's no
like sex education and no access to abortion, which makes
this one child rule really fucked up. But I guess,
I mean call it a late term abortion, super late
(12:20):
for that kid.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I wonder is that rule in place across the foundation
or just.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
On that one planet? Yeah, yeah, well, or maybe it's
just on a class of people. Is it like class
based where because we feed you, you're only allowed to
have one kid, but if you are rich enough, you
can have as many kids you want. So it's a
really interesting world building, and it's really highlighting how there
(12:47):
aren't any good guys or bad guys here. We don't
know who is best, right, So now we're all like, well,
I'm glad we have a second foundation to depend on.
That seems a little bit nicer, But I don't know.
Gail also just destroyed a planet.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's what I'm saying, Like, no one's.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
No one's pure there's no purity, there's no clear version
of good and evil, and it's very gray, very gray.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, this is a little off topic, but we were talking.
I think it was the last episode, maybe it's one before.
I'm about salvor zygoat. Yeah, and I read just some
to clarify on it that the practice of them harvesting
the zygoats continued on terminus, So that's why she would
have had one.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh, okay, so is it a zygoat that belonged to
to Salar? So it was her unborn embr so clump. Well, yeah,
it's a clump of cells. So a zygo is basically
what happens after a sperm and an egg meat, It
creates a zygot, a clump of cells. So that's because
(13:52):
I was confused. I'm like, so is it Salvar or
is it salv War's zygoat? Like the thing that she
carried in her womb for maybe never Yeah, because they
all she had to do was donate an egg.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
So so yeah, so if that winds up becoming a person,
it would be her descendant. Yeah, which half the fact
that they brought it up makes me think we will
probably see that at some.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Point, maybe after the Mule maybe.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, all right, I think I want to do a
spoiler section at the end of this episode just to
talk about a few things, And one is that the
Mule's background is very different in the show than what
was in the books.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That's already too much spoilers. We need to save that Jason.
So the Mule then goes to the Foundation to Terminus
and Riek's havoc, and it looks like the Mayor was
in cohotes with him the whole time, the whole time,
But I don't know if that's like factual, or if
(14:49):
the Mule had some influence over him, or as soon
as he touched down he had influence and made him bow.
I don't know if that was something that the Mayor
did from their own will or from the will of
the Mule. It's not clear.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, it's not clear because I wouldn't put it past
that guy to just surrender and Neil like that. He's
a little weasel the only time, Like, I'm certain he
was under controls when he drowned himself, but I don't
feel like he was under control like prior to the
mules erect, right.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
He was just setting himself up and because nobody warned
him about the mule except for Pritcher, who he hates.
He was like, well, let me get with the mule
and then let me capture Pritcher to give to the mule.
And that's fucked up, dude, Like that's the whole situation
was scary, and it was horrifying to witness, to like
(15:43):
watch like as a viewer, like the war that came
the destruction. I wouldn't even call it a war because
those were not soldiers, those were civilians.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Yeah, and that kind of caught me off guard. It's
like how much of the conflict we were seeing from
a like a personal perspective with a lot of the
characters Beta and Torn and Han Pritcher, Like watching from
his cell was like kind of devastating in its own way.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, Like imagine being somebody who is capable of like
potentially swaying people and moving and like not like being
stuck in a cell with your hands tied. Basically, he
and the scene where he bites his wrist is so visceral,
it's so shocking and fucking desperation. Like the desperation was
(16:36):
like visible there, like you could feel it, and that
actor did such a convincing job of like conveying the
emotion and like kind of like amping himself up, like
breathing and like getting ready to do something fucking crazy.
But it was very successful. It was very successful.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah. I do question like what sort of like psychic
powers he does have. He doesn't seem to use any
sort of manipulation And it.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Did though, because when they went to his cell, they
thought that was him.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, but he never like convinced anyone to let him
out or anything.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I don't think he wants to use those powers, like
you know, all willy nilly, And it might be something different,
like every one of those people has different powers. Maybe
he only has the power to read minds and not
change them like the mule, you know. Yeah, so it's
hard to say what his powers are. But yeah, it's
(17:31):
really interesting that he didn't use any of them against
his captors, but he did get away, and I thought
it was a very interesting choice that instead of fleeing
he went planet side.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, and I think that was smart because what he
doesn't want to do is run to the Second Foundation, right,
hopefully he knows that much, though I do not know
what his plan is.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I don't either I mean, hopefully he meets up with
Beta or something. Hopefully he can rescue her or something.
I know that that's not his role, but like her character,
I feel like is really important to this story somehow.
Her and her husband I forget his name.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, he is torn and the uncle is randw okay.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So their storyline incredible, like they're trying to bring together
these factions and then all of a sudden they're thrust
into this conflict and all he can do is grab
his unconscious wife and run, run, run, run until he
finds safety. And then his uncle comes in and is
(18:40):
like all manipulated, and he's like conflicted because even though
he has his issues with his uncle and his disagreements,
that's still his family. And you can see the devastation
that it brings him to see his uncle under the
influence of the mule and the hard decision he had
to make to escape and kill his uncle and leave
(19:02):
his wife behind.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, he had to accept those losses at that point
for what they were.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think his characters really developing, and I'm like really
curious to see what happens to Beta when she wakes up.
If she wakes up, you know, because she's been unconscious
for a really long time. That's scary.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, and then the ship says it's working on her,
but then Randu like shoots, It shoots.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
The Yeah, it breaks the ice machine and everything. So
I'm like, holy crap. You know this like seemingly rapid
couple is now like kind of like your every man
and how they would move through this situation, like you
would hope that you were capable of doing what he
did to the extent that he did it. It's not perfect,
(19:47):
but it's like necessary. And where is he going? Where
is he going to end up? He has such valuable
information about the Mule Now.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, and we never saw Magnifico. I don't know where
he I.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Don't know what happened to him. Yeah, he might be
captured by now, or he could have escaped, who knows.
I'm hoping that Pritcher finds him and can amplify hit
whatever powers he has, but you know, who knows what's
going to happen.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Wow, I mean that the shit on Terminus Like for me,
it gave the show a new gravity, like a new
like feel that this show has never had before. It's
had fight scenes, it's had wars, it's had destruction of planets,
but this felt different somehow. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
And it's also because it's outside of the plan of psychohistory,
like none of is this supposed to happen?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, I mean immediately when somebody asked him about the
Mule and the mule showed up, Harry Selden's hologram shut
down and kicked everyone out.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And as soon as the Mule comes planet side and
wreaks havoc again with like murdering the mayor and you know,
challenging authority and not even challenging authority, changing authority, like
becoming authority. And now he goes to meet the man
who made him kill his parents, and I like that.
(21:16):
Harry Seldon's like if that story is even true, because
you know, the mule is a manipulator, so how do
we know? How can we trust his version of events?
That's like the untrustworthy narrator kind of shit. Yeah, that
was a great scene to leave it at, though, where
the mules like smiling at Harry Seldon horrifying. What's going
(21:37):
to happen next?
Speaker 3 (21:40):
You want to talk about day or dusk?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I feel like Dusk is pretty simple. He's in charge
now and he's also going crazy. Yeah, so it's like,
holy shit, Uh, that guy just fucking stepped on a
ferret and he's in charge and he has a fucking
black hole gun.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
He really doesn't like the animals, and the animals are loose. Yeah,
and he seems to be struggling for a moment there
in the throne room and then he pulls it together
and he's the one in charge.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, but he gets very vague instructions like just keep
an eye on Terminus and bring us, you know, gather
all the troops. Okay, then and then what then?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
Stand by?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
That's kind of what he said. Basically.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
It was just very like I need to go have
a three day romance.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
So yeah, I'm about to expire Bropefully the boss Lady
will be back. Where the fuck is Demersal? She was
in this episode, but she wasn't talk about flashbacks. When
brother Day was reminiscing about his childhood and he asked her,
would you love us or would you rather have your freedom?
(22:54):
I think he was also asking that to Song. So
that was like very clever, very dumb Blantandra, very like,
you know, him asking a question and answering it himself
because he knows that freedom is more than love. Oh
what great, amazing, I love it. It's great. And then
I like how they set up the hallucigen scene where
(23:16):
it's kind of like ritual and practice of like part
of like a cultural thing, and how they like included
the devices that were creating or like preparing the hallucigen
as part of his hallucigen hallucination. So like at one
point he's in the tea bath like drowning, and then
(23:38):
he's out of it and he's like all what, and
it was like very interesting. And then he's naked, and
then he's in the palace and then he's a child,
and it was really I thought I really liked it.
I thought it was interesting. And then he would like
become lucid and kind of be able to hear song
asking him the questions, but then he would veer off
and you know, meander to another part of his like
(24:02):
unconscious mind. So it's very interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Yeah, very like disjointed in a good way because you know,
like dream sequences or like these hallucin adjacent sequences can
often be housey.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yeah, they can be hokey.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Or like just too on the nose about what the
message is there, But yeah, that was an interesting trip. Yeah,
and then and you get a little bit about like
his his issues issues with demersal right, because he really
hates her. But I think he hates her because she
her love isn't genuine. Yeah right, it's programmed. And I
(24:40):
think like the Robot people were really upset.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
To find that out. They're like, oh, you fuck you
fucking broke her. You are imprisoning her, and that's fucking real.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah. Yeah, and the Micagen people very much see him
as the same as the clones as he yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Even though he himself was very clear that they're all
different and they're all unique, and they're getting worse according
to him, and I feel like there's a little truth
to that. So it's very interesting to see that and
to to then meet a new character with another set
of abs. How many guys in this universe have just
(25:21):
impeccable abs. That character did not need to have abs.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
That character came in like abs first.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
That was the like that was who auditioned for this role,
was his abs. Yeah, They're like, okay, yeah, we see
the face shots, but lift your shirt up please. Yeah,
that'll work. You're hired. You don't have to read anything
you're in.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Do you think that the emperors are like designed to
have that body with the the abs and the pecks
or do they actually have to like work for it.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
I think it's both right, because there's genetic traits that
get passed down, and part of it is physique. So
if your family has if you have a family of
fat people, you're gonna most likely be fat, and you're
gonna work very hard to not be fat. So if
you come from a lineage of like athletic people, it's
(26:19):
going to be a little bit easier for you to
be athletic and strong. And even the old guy Dusk
had some picks when he was rolling around in the
bed with that old lady he is, physique wasn't bad.
It wasn't sagging, so I think, And even like brother
don is, even though he's more sinewy and like slightly
(26:41):
less built, he's still not like a fat person. Obviously,
when you live in an environment where they feed you
a specific diet and they watch everything that you do,
I'm sure that there's a regimen there. I'm sure. And
you know, brother Day and this iteration is probably still
(27:04):
somehow programmed. Even though they you know, they're human. I
feel like there's still like things that they probably instill
in them from young from childhood, like you wake up
and you do forty push ups or whatever.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
But I mean it must be given his lifestyle. I
don't know how long he's been kind of living in
this like drugs, laying a drugs.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
But you don't know if he's you know, even people
who are on drugs that you might still wake up
in the morning and go for a jog. You might
still choose to take care of your body even though
you're chilling out.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
So I don't possibly, but we just don't see that
now a motivation in him.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
That's not something that creates a character interest, you know,
unless you want to see like I don't know. To me,
it's like part of the fantasy to see like a
perfect body. It's part of a fantasy to say that
that's natural, because that's not okay. There's no way that
a guy who doesn't work out is going to look
like that ever. But yeah, another set of abs. I
(28:04):
want to see the mules abs next.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Oh, they bring up this the point how Day really
despises the fact that he was created and not born
and they give him that moment with the belly button
to kind of showing what he really wishes.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Oh, I didn't know that was fake. They don't have belly.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Buttons, no, because we saw him early in the season
without belly button.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Oh, belly buttons are overrated. Okay, but yeah, I guess
he does wish he was born. I didn't that was
very I didn't recognize that. I forgot that he's not human.
You know, he was created in a lab. But they
could add a belly button at any moment. I'm just saying,
like they choose not to give him a belly button.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Rude.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yep, he just wants something to pick it out.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Of his camel's walking them out, and.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
His ferret got squshed.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Bro, he's gonna be so upset by that.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
He's gonna go on a murder spree when he finds out.
I wonder what he's gonna do with these robot people though,
because they obviously hate him.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
They do, but they definitely are going to want Demersal
and to want to free her.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, but little do they know that by destroying him,
they get closer to freeing her. Yeah, And I think
we're adding another player into the mix of like the
fall of Empire.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
And we don't really know if he told them that
or not.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
I don't think he knows. I don't think he knows
that she serves Empire and not him, true, because there's
a distinct difference that we've seen play out in her
literally murdering versions of himself. So I don't think he
realizes that he could go. You know, him missing is
not something that's going to affect the Empire, and one
(29:43):
way or another, she just acants another one.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, But so he's now face to face with the
leader of mikea Jin.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
I thought he'd be older.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
It's Dunmaster eighteen, I believe Al, which is a character
from the books. Also, Demerzal gives herself previous names. I
mentioned O'Neil earlier, and then Ato was another name she
mentioned which is in the books. It is Ato. Demerzal
is a character that is the role that she's taking on.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Basically, that was a good episode though overall, very very
pleased with where this is going and how it's becoming
a very tangled web that you're just kind of caught
up in and you're just waiting for the next little
piece of the puzzle to come through.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah, and it's feeling a little, a little desperate. I
don't know how.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I mean, yeah, there's only three episodes left and we
don't know if they've cleared for season four. This is
like you can feel the energy and the show is
like changing. But the acting is so good. I can't
believe the acting right now. The acting for me is
just like what's making it like so good right now?
I can't believe where it's at right now with these actors.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Yeah, do you think we'll see another Dawn? I don't
know the seasoned I don't know, man, because I don't.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I mean, maybe he had to go shoot another's maybe
they had to write them off. Who knows. I don't know.
I can't say for sure.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
Well, demerzal get back and be like, I know, shit's wild,
but I'm also a clock and there's something that's happened,
So we got to get a new day then turn
them into don real quick, yeah, or in the dust
real quick. Also, just I'm trying to track like some
of the loose ends that have happened in the show
with the Dawn and the Cloud Princess escaping, like when
(31:29):
they think come of that we just saw that the
Mule had a younger sibling, right, think it's potentially an
adult now.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
And also has powers. Maybe who knows, maybe they got
recruited into the Foundation or two the second Foundation, because
usually they try to find these kids. Yeah, so I'm like,
what is go weed on when.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
We mentioned Salvor's Zyegot could potentially come into play at
some point, but I guess that would be after a
time jump probably.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah. I'm so sad that this show doesn't have of
Like I really I've fallen in love with these characters,
and I'm like part of me is devastated that they're
probably not going to make it to the next season.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of the nature of it that
we jump to another era and the only ones coming
with us seem to be Gale and Harry.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
An empire, an Empire, and Immersal yep. So I don't know,
we'll see. I'm very interested. The show is just like
developing so beautifully and authentically to me, like the fall
of humanity is so real right now, and I don't know,
I'm just very invested as a viewer, So I'm going
(32:40):
to be really sad if it ends in season three
but I feel like they're doing such a great job
with it that I'm not worried for the ending.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
Yeah. I mean, if this culminates in a way that
is satisfying, like it could be a really strong ending.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah, I mean there's still move there. I feel like
they could end it really well, but they could also
leave it like some ends loose, because I feel like
good stories don't tell you everything. They don't close it
all the way. You always leave a little crack, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Oh, one other loose end out there was Harry Selden,
the human version of him. Like, I don't buy that.
What happened at the beginning of the season is the
end of that character, right.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
He went away with that weird lady and that third
fourth dimension door or whatever that was weird. Yeah, he
just disappeared. So who knows? And who is this lady?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I don't we never got any answers.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
We don't know who this lady is.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
She make him into human again?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
And why does she take him away? Who knows?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Astral Queen, who was the standout character in the episode.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Who's your astral Queen? I have two and they're both
on terminus.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
I'm guessing you're thinking either toryn or Han picture. Yeah,
those are the two I have in mind as well.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, I think I'm gonna go for Torn because he was.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Torn nice because I was thinking Precher.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, so that's that's I think that's where I'm gonna go.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
H Yeah, I mean it was hard in this episode
because often I'm thinking about like, either you know who,
like who did the most to kind of save the
day in a sense, or who kind of just had
to endure the worst and get through it and I
feel like the better, Like nobody was successful in this
episode at stopping anything horrible from happening, but Han Pritcher
(34:32):
was able to manipulate his situation is supposedly on his
way to doing some good.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yeah, I mean he had to endure imprisonment and watch
as his community fell because he's part of both, right,
He's he's he's very unique in the fact that he
works with both foundations. He knows what's at stake. He
lives and breathes the teachings of Harry Selden. He knew
(34:58):
the man, and to see Harry Selden's dream fall apart
and not be able to do anything is devastating, and
that moment when he decided he's going to do something drastic, iconic,
like literally like goosebumps, like you could not look away,
but like part of you was like disgusted to see it.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yeah. And it's not just like I got to get
out of here to save myself. It's like the mule
cannot find me. Yeah, because that is the end of everything. Yeah,
and then, you know, torn, I cannot believe that these
two characters that we met in the first episode sitting
on that beach being annoyed by the war going on,
are so meaningful to us now.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
I know. It's crazy. And he did all of this
in that slutty little shirt.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
He dragged that woman through a battlefield in that slutty
little shirt. Icon legend, impeccable, amazing. I kind of wish though,
that when he was getting beat up by those people,
those militia, that he got a little bit more beat up,
like a little bit more beat up, just to make
it look like he really struggled, just a little more blood,
(36:09):
a little black eye something, you know, because he's too pretty,
they need to rough him up.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Even Randy was like, you've never been through anything in
your life.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, but he has no idea what he just went through.
So it was good. It was such a good episode.
And I don't know, it's crazy that I started off
this show like really apprehensive, really against it, and now
it's like I look forward to it.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yeah, so Torn, and I'm pretchuer. Your awards will be
sent to you wherever you end up. Probably shouldn't send
him the terminus. Right now, we're going to do a
real quick little spoiler section kind of talking about potential
storylines based on what happened in the novels. So if
you don't want to hear that, then don't keep listening.
(36:56):
But the next episode we will cover will be season
three episode eight, Skin in the Game, and we will
see you next week.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Let's put our living stereo stylus in this.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Group race for impact Spoilers ahead. If you haven't read
the book series, now maybe the time to say goodbye.
Remember you can contact us at Spacingoutpod at gmail dot com,
find us on social media, share your thoughts and be
(37:25):
a part of the discussion. Spoilers in five four three
two one.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Okay, So the Mule. His backstory in the books is
that he's from a planet called Gaya and it is
in like future novels, how you actually learn about Gaya.
Guya is a planet where everyone is kind of connected
on the psychic level and including like everything about the
entire planet, all the nature, the even like the rocks
and everything to a lesser extent.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
But what are they eat? They can eat the things
that they're psychically connected to. Yeah, dude, I don't know,
I'd feel so good anyway.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
And it's fund like a lot of the book, just
like explaining all of it. So like that planet exists
and that's part of a whole other storyline. It's not
really connected to anything happening now. But we learned that
the Mule was from that planet and was kind of
a rebel from that planet, and that was his backstory,
and they've changed it in the show, and you know,
(38:22):
I don't know what that means, if they're they're not
looking to do any of those future storylines, or if
they just really wanted the Mule to have a more
personal connection to the Foundation, because in the books, I
think he was just an unhinged guy.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yeah no, this I like the surge and story a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
But also like wrapped up in the Gaya storyline from
the future novels. Is this search for the planet Earth,
which is, you know, kind of a mystery. Most people
don't even believe it's real, kind of like where did
humanity come from? That information's lost, but some people are
looking for it.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Okay, battle stuff, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
It does have to in it, but they do keep
like dropping mentions of Earth throughout this show without the
season particular, So I kind of wonder like, are we
gonna go there and future seasons or not. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Hopefully we have future seasons for it to develop, but.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I will say like once the Mule story wraps up,
the next like the sequel books from there are very
disconnected from all the storyline that's happening interest, So if
it does go there, I don't know what we would
be continuing any of these characters at all. Okay, but
Beta plays a big role in the books in stopping
(39:40):
the Mule, and the fact that she has now been
captured by his people makes you think that she will
get to have that role in the show. And we
didn't see doctor ebling Me in this episode doctor Bashir,
but it's those characters Beta, Torrin and ebling Me who
are working to find the second foundation alongside Magnificent, who
(40:04):
in the books is secretly the Mule. They are one character,
and Beta is the one that stops I believe she
kills ebling me because he's about to reveal the location
of the Second Foundation, and her doing that is what
stops the Mule from ever learning about it. Oh wow,
And so really like stalls him from taking over the
entire galaxy. Oh wow. So yeah, she plays a big role.
(40:26):
And then she also is immune to his control. Oh,
which I think I misspoke previously and said that that
wasn't the case. But noah, once I look here into
it again, like, yeah, he cannot control her.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
So that's exciting.
Speaker 3 (40:39):
That's what I'm looking forward to now, because originally didn't
seem like she was in a position to really play
that role. But now she is nice.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Nice. I like it. I like it a lot. I
love spoilers, I really do.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah. So three more episodes this season. It's almost stressful.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
It's almost stressful, it's almost yeah, but we're excited. I'm
excited anyway.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
All right, I think that does it for this. So
we'll see you next episode called Skin in the Game.
Thank you for spacing out with us. Remember to respect
and enjoy the pieces. Kind of ironic hearing that in
this episode pleats.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Thank you for spacing out with Bib and Jason. You
can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
or social media. Next time, we will cover Foundation season three,
episode eight, Skin in the Game. We hope you will
join us
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.