August 19, 2025 • 20 mins
Welcome to Spacing Out With BB and Jason! We’re covering Foundation, and this week we’re discussing season 3, episode 6, “The Shape of Time”. Thanks for joining us!
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Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpacingOutPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spacing_out_podcast/
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpacingOutPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spacing_out_podcast/
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpacingOutPod
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spacing_out_podcast/
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason this week
covering Foundation season three, episode six, The Shape of Time.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Ye, welcome to Spacy now.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm BB and I'm Jason, and we are discussing the
Apple TV sci fi series Foundation, one episode at the time,
covering season three. As it comes out. We might be
listening to this on our Foundation podcast by I invite
you to check out our main channel, Spacing Out with
Bhebe and Jason. That's where we post all of our
coverage of different shows and series and movies. And I
(00:36):
do want to point out that we did cover all
the Alien movies and Alien Earth has just started airing
on or streaming on Hulu, so we will circle back
around and catch that. But because we're in the middle
of Foundation, we're not going to juggle both or at
the same time, because that's too much. In this episode,
after a confrontation, Gale and de Merzial worked together to
(00:59):
see future of a Day looks for Song and Micagen
and on new Terminus, the Mallows arrived with Magnifico, The
vault opens, and the Mule takes aim vibe check.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I liked it. It was good. It was exciting, it
was dramatic, people revealed themselves. Was really good.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, I feel like just a continuation from last time,
with everything escalating and characters sharing the screen together that
were not used to. I feel like, I mean, I know,
we don't know anything about the future of the show,
but like it feels like the season feels very like
climactic for the series.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, for the series, it does.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And they're also they're they're referencing back to season one
a lot, and that kind of helps shape that feeling.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Trivia time, What facts or news could we uncover for
the Shape of Time?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, this was Foundation season three episode six. The Shape
of Time originally aired on August fifteenth, twenty twenty five,
written by Eric Carrasco and David S. Goyer who's the showrunner,
and directed by Christopher Jay Burns. Same as the previous episode,
So that tracks with it feeling very much in continuation.
Lee Pace, who plays brother Day, gave an interview in
(02:19):
Esquire where he addressed some of the production delays of
season three, saying I was definitely thinking this could be
the end of us, and that he'd been through something
similar before. He was in a show called pushing Daisies
that was forced to hall production during the writer's strike
I believe in two thousand and eight, and he says
they lost their audience and he was desperate to avoid
a similar fate here. But he was very tight lipped
(02:42):
about how this batch of episode is going to end,
but he's hopeful that the fans will get to see
more of him between seasons. This is him in quotes
here between seasons two and three. I wanted to make
him as different as I possibly could. If we get
to do a season four, I want to take it
even further.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh that's really weird. Wow. I love that. I love
getting quotes from actors and their experiences with the machine,
you know, the Hollywood machine.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, and then I found there's a couple other interviews
that came out, but it was mostly just the actor
saying like, it's really cool to get to work with
some of the other actors that we don't get to
share the screen time with a lot. And that's basically
just so. It didn't add a whole lot, But I
think sounds like everyone's really enjoying the show from their
side of it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
That's nice to portray that.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Deep space dive let's break down some of our thoughts
on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
through email or social media. We may use your comments
on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Demersal is a robot.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
She is, and Gail did not know this.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Gail had no idea. She was worried.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Gail knows so much, but not that one detail. So
what did she think about Demersal? She knew she was
still around. She also thought she was one of the clones.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, she probably thought she was a clone like the
Empires our loved when she pieces it together and she's like,
Harry Selden wasn't talking to Empire. Harry Selden was talking
to you.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah. So the Merzl was a lot more involved in
psychohistory than we you. Yeah, because she saw it as
like short term beneficial to the Empire. It's really intertwined.
But she cares about the Genetic Dynasty above all else,
and that kind of involves the Empire of being successful
as well.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, maybe that's what she cares about. We don't really
know what her real motives are because she's killed the
Genetic Dynasty a couple of times, and it's been altered
and it's not but.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
She always killed it in the name of like preserving it.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, but that's complicated. I was interesting to see her
react to Don Dyne and how she was like, I
saw that baby, I raised him.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, she changed his diapers.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, but kind of I didn't think of her doing that.
I forgot about that part of her role, being kind
of like a nanny.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, because we I don't think since season one have
you really seen.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Her taking care of a little one.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, because when she had to replace all of them,
she ye unfreezes like a teenage version for Dawn. And
maybe it's has to do with like they can't have
that same kid because he's aged several years now.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, but they basically Gail's like pleading for her life.
She's like, I can see the future, don't kill me.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah. The mersles like that's not how time works.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I like the Gail's description of space and how she
saw it, how it was like, it's not a line, girl,
Like time and space is not linear, it's not flat,
it's something that you can wrap yourself around.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, and she brought the spacers into it. There's actual
evidence that that some zines have differently. Yeah, And as
I said, earlier, Like it's tying in some stuff we
saw on season one that didn't seem to serve a
lot of purpose at the time, but like her being
able to stay awake through their their jumps through hyperspace,
(06:12):
HOWE really define it in the show.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It was a really good callback because I forgot that
Gail did that. I forgot that she's always been special. Yeah,
so I like that they like it.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Was just one of those things we didn't know what
to make of it in season one.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, I mean even now we still aren't really sure
what it means. Maybe she's part spacer who knows what's
going on there.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, And they also flashed back to the carry Selwyn
in the first episode making his case before the Emperor.
And you know we have doctor abling Me who is
a descendant of someone from that first scene the first episode.
So that's where like it is like building off of
its foundation.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah, So if we take everything at face value, then
Don is dead.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Don I was worried he died for Gail or because
of Gail. That was a good line.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, but I'm wondering if so if Demersal's booking it
back to Trantor because there's an attack coming, like is
she gonna bother? Like getting a new dawn out? Like
do you have time to even unfreeze one? I think
I don't know, but Demersal has magic fingers that.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Can kind of treat your mind.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, and restart your heart.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah. Fucking Gail was like what the fuck happened? And
we find out that there is a place where the
mule finds her. We have a location now and after
that there's a black hole that Gail ends up in.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yep, and we also know that brother Dusk has a
black hole gun, so we can put that together pretty easily.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah. I didn't even put that together. Thank you for
putting that together for me.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
It's a Chekhov's black hole gun, so we saw it
in the beginning of the season, so it's definitely going
to go off near the end of the season.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, Okay, I don't know the reference, but good Chekhov's
no Who's checkofs.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I believe it comes from theater, a dramatic principle stating
that every element introducing a story should be relevant and
serve a purpose. If the gun is shown, it should
be fired later. The character mentions a particular peculiar skill,
that skill should be used later. Essentially, something is presented
as significant, it must be used a result later in
the narrative.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
That feels obvious. But yeah, that feels so that they're
using a lot of Chekhov's theory here. When Gail was
able to see space when she was supposed to sleep,
that's coming back as significant too interesting.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Is there anything more on their scene? I mean, it
was cool to see them together on screen. I mean,
we've got a hint of it last time.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
But mmm, no, today it was really good. They were
collaborating on like a little forcibly. I think Dermerzal was like,
you're lucky. I let you live. You're interesting, so I'm
going to let you live.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yeah, this little alliance was only because it happened to
be mutually beneficial, sort of like another alliance with the
Traders and Foundation Foundation.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Dude, it sucks that they basically walked into a trap,
like they led the mule to the Foundation. My favorite
part was that Harry Selden was like what and turned
it off.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, so I didn't see that coming. So I know
I've mentioned it on the podcast before. I think I
might have done it in the spoiler section but I
didn't think it was actually going to play out this way,
just because Harry Selden in the show is able to
interact with people and you know, feed off of what
people tell him, you know, whereas in the books he
was kind of just like a pre programmed thing. So
(09:40):
when the Mule happens, like he's totally unprepared for it
and has no knowledge of it.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
And so I wasn't expecting that to happen in the show,
just because he seemed to be aware of how things
are playing out.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, but we forget that Harry Selden is two people. Now,
there's two versions. There's the living version who lived and
died and new who the Mule was and was preparing
for the Mule. And there's the Hairy Seldon that's programmed
in a machine or whatever thing that's prepared for crisis,
Christia's teeth, christ sykes for bad things to happen in
(10:14):
a predictable manner, and the Mule and Gail and even
the Second Foundation are almost an outlier. They're not supposed
They said it themselves. Gaale said I'm an outlier, so
it's crazy. He's like, oh fuck, I'm.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Out yeah, I also get out of my house.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, and they and he went into turtle mode and
I think the mule called him a turtle, So that
was really good. I felt bad that Pritcher's still in
the jail cell. I didn't think that was very fair.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, but I wonder if that will him being positioned
there will help in some way. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
He might not got the mules there, dude. Yeah, he's
gonna like probably be tortured and he's gonna probably die.
That's how I see it, just based on the mules,
like track records. I think the mayor was putting two
and two together with a Pritcher two though, it's like
where were you? Why do you know about the mule
before anybody else?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Yeah? I do like how Beta and Torn are like
it's like really like stepping up as active characters and
assuming their their roles and all this.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, they're uniters. They're uniting, you know, group of people
that were very divided because of some bullshit that had
to do with like their interpretation of the foundation. And
I like that. Harry Selden clocked it and they're like, oh, yeah,
you two are fighting and you're together now because of
(11:43):
Finale like an external force, but he had no idea
what that force was. And I like how she talks
to the musician. I like how she like validates him
and like reassures him and stuff a little a little patronizing,
but I think he likes it.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, she kind of treats him like a pet.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
She called him puppet or pet like puppy.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, but he's just, you know, an artist trying to
get a meal.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah. I feel that.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
When he plays his instrument makes me think of Futurama
where they play the it's like a hollow phone phone.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, that's what it looks like to me.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah. I wonder what instruments they use to make that
instrument sound. Probably a computer, yeah, say computers. Oh my god. Okay,
now we got to talk about Empire going to Song's
house after he stops for some snacks. Yeah, that was
kind of cute. He's like, oh man, they fucked up
with colebal and let me that that cute little Asian
(12:48):
Lady's like, have a snack, you'll never have it again.
And he takes some candy over to his former lover's
house along with her memories. I didn't see that part.
So that was interesting that he brought her the memories.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah. I don't think we knew that he had gathered those.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I kind of thought he might be running off to
restore her memories with the Cloud Kingdom.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah. No, it looks like he had it on his
own and he offers them to her and she doesn't
want them. She's like, no, we had an agreement, And
I think part of her was like really upset that
he kept her for so long because she has a
life outside of the palace, and this was what I
was thinking. I'm like, I don't think that woman loves him,
you know, And I think part of me was right
(13:34):
like in you know, I don't know how it works
when you hook up with the person that likes to
erase your memory?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Well do do they erase? Like?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I don't think they erase your personality. I think that
they just like pinpoint, Okay, you made an agreement, you
agreed to it, and you will continue to be yourself.
But when you come out of this agreement, out of
this evening or day or whatever, we will clean out
your memories and all you will remember is agreeing to
something and leaving, So you are yourself throughout this whole interaction,
(14:10):
but she never even gave him her full name.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, I'm just wondering, Like, so when she's selected by
the empire, like, do they do anything to her memories
at that point or do they just erase at the end.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I think it's at the end when you get to
go home.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Okay, it's not like a dull house thing.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, they don't like erase your memory and you're just
a blank slate. I think the reason they pick you
is because of your personality and your beauty. Right, something
about your personality has to stay intact in order for
them to continue the ruse of like having their fantasy
be fulfilled. But I think she was always pretending. And
(14:50):
she said herself, She's like, if I ever said I
loved you, it was probably because I feared you. You
wouldn't fear somebody you don't know. And if your brain
was like cleaned, you know, you wouldn't know he was
empire or some servant boy or whatever. So I hope
that she's smart enough to take her memories though, so
(15:11):
she knows that she met a robot.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, I mean maybe that robot infro is tempting enough.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, but dang, he fell in love with the lesbian.
That's tough, man, It's real tough.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
And she's like I just thought I was really good
at sex.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And she probably was and pretending when.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Mike Agin looks. I like the kind of world building there,
just they show us with the establishing shots and stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, and even the interior of her home is like
very cozy, very interesting, very different from the palatial space
that he had created for them. And they're a weird
little lama den. Yeah, I would just want to remember jiaf.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I believe it's called a gear raf. Yeah. In the
the novel Mykagen is it's where they grow a lot
of the food and like the flavorings and stuff. So
that makes sense that, like they had those sweets and
things on there, and in the books everyone there is
completely hairless, and they did not go that route in
the show.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, that's not aesthetic for Wargrow. But hair.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Where did that storyline end? Was it just like him
at gunpoint?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah? Yeah, he got tased a couple of times and
he was bleeding and.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
This episode was just like Cliffhangers.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Mm hmmm, Cliffhanger City.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Dude, Well, dang, so I mean anything else to cover.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I think we got it all.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I guess when we did start with the Mule, seeing that,
like he's been haunted by Gail the same way she's
been haunted by him. That's interesting, And yeah, he knows
her name now because of han perture.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Like, knowing what they know about the Mule, why would
they send him. He didn't seem like he was capable.
And what worries me is that he's the most capable
and he was still not able to keep the Mule
out of his mind. Yeah, so that's scary. And the
Mule was wreaking havoc on their like armada or whatever,
their their military, their air force, whatever you want to
(17:12):
call it, without the musician, So that's scary too.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Astral Queen, who was the stand out character in the episode?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
All right, we had a lot of people in this episode.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I know who I want Torn Mallow for wearing the
floodiest shirt in the galaxy and carrying his wife across
the battlefield and speaking up and being vocal and saying,
don't you know about the Mule, He's like the most
important thing right now, causing Harry Selden to the glitch
glitch out. So that's who I That's who I'm putting
(17:48):
my astral queen crown on.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I am continually just like impressed with those characters, even
like when the storyline on Terminus is just like everyone
in that room is like a new character this season
except Terry Seldon, you know. M, but like still really
like engages all of it. And yeah, I think Torn
and Beta are having like a really nice arc of growth, m.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Being like vapid celebrities to revolutionaries.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, I think I want to pick I'm going to
pick Demersal.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Demersal for being kind and not killing.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Gail, for sparing dear Gail's.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Life, yeah, and even saving it.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
And yeah, I mean she was able to like figure
out more of what's the potential future is and Gale's
been able to and she, yeah, saved her life, and
you're just like on a mission the entire time. First
a little bit of revenge.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Now she's off to put out more fires yep.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And apparently when she reboots, it sets off a little emp.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's crazy. That memory was so intense that it made
her like pass out essentially.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, I was wondering if her rebooting would change anything
about here, but didn't seem too.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Now that programming's in her mind. Man, that chip is stuck. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yes, those are our characters, Torren Mallow and the Merzal,
two people who have never met. All right, So that
wraps up the episode. The next one will be season
three episode seven, Foundations End, which I believe is the
title of No it's not. There's a one of the
books it's called Foundation's Edge, but Foundations End sounds bad
(19:32):
for the Foundation.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Good thing, there's a backup.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
That's right. So thanks for spacing out with us, and
remember all competent plans build in backups.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Thank you for spacing out with Boebe and Jason. You
can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
or social media. Next time we will cover Foundations season three,
episode seven, Foundations. We hope you will join us
Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason this week
covering Foundation season three, episode six, The Shape of Time.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Ye, welcome to Spacy now.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I'm BB and I'm Jason, and we are discussing the
Apple TV sci fi series Foundation, one episode at the time,
covering season three. As it comes out. We might be
listening to this on our Foundation podcast by I invite
you to check out our main channel, Spacing Out with
Bhebe and Jason. That's where we post all of our
coverage of different shows and series and movies. And I
(00:36):
do want to point out that we did cover all
the Alien movies and Alien Earth has just started airing
on or streaming on Hulu, so we will circle back
around and catch that. But because we're in the middle
of Foundation, we're not going to juggle both or at
the same time, because that's too much. In this episode,
after a confrontation, Gale and de Merzial worked together to
(00:59):
see future of a Day looks for Song and Micagen
and on new Terminus, the Mallows arrived with Magnifico, The
vault opens, and the Mule takes aim vibe check.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I liked it. It was good. It was exciting, it
was dramatic, people revealed themselves. Was really good.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah, I feel like just a continuation from last time,
with everything escalating and characters sharing the screen together that
were not used to. I feel like, I mean, I know,
we don't know anything about the future of the show,
but like it feels like the season feels very like
climactic for the series.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, for the series, it does.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
And they're also they're they're referencing back to season one
a lot, and that kind of helps shape that feeling.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Trivia time, What facts or news could we uncover for
the Shape of Time?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, this was Foundation season three episode six. The Shape
of Time originally aired on August fifteenth, twenty twenty five,
written by Eric Carrasco and David S. Goyer who's the showrunner,
and directed by Christopher Jay Burns. Same as the previous episode,
So that tracks with it feeling very much in continuation.
Lee Pace, who plays brother Day, gave an interview in
(02:19):
Esquire where he addressed some of the production delays of
season three, saying I was definitely thinking this could be
the end of us, and that he'd been through something
similar before. He was in a show called pushing Daisies
that was forced to hall production during the writer's strike
I believe in two thousand and eight, and he says
they lost their audience and he was desperate to avoid
a similar fate here. But he was very tight lipped
(02:42):
about how this batch of episode is going to end,
but he's hopeful that the fans will get to see
more of him between seasons. This is him in quotes
here between seasons two and three. I wanted to make
him as different as I possibly could. If we get
to do a season four, I want to take it
even further.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh that's really weird. Wow. I love that. I love
getting quotes from actors and their experiences with the machine,
you know, the Hollywood machine.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, and then I found there's a couple other interviews
that came out, but it was mostly just the actor
saying like, it's really cool to get to work with
some of the other actors that we don't get to
share the screen time with a lot. And that's basically
just so. It didn't add a whole lot, But I
think sounds like everyone's really enjoying the show from their
side of it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
That's nice to portray that.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Deep space dive let's break down some of our thoughts
on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
through email or social media. We may use your comments
on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Demersal is a robot.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
She is, and Gail did not know this.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Gail had no idea. She was worried.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Gail knows so much, but not that one detail. So
what did she think about Demersal? She knew she was
still around. She also thought she was one of the clones.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, she probably thought she was a clone like the
Empires our loved when she pieces it together and she's like,
Harry Selden wasn't talking to Empire. Harry Selden was talking
to you.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yeah. So the Merzl was a lot more involved in
psychohistory than we you. Yeah, because she saw it as
like short term beneficial to the Empire. It's really intertwined.
But she cares about the Genetic Dynasty above all else,
and that kind of involves the Empire of being successful
as well.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well, maybe that's what she cares about. We don't really
know what her real motives are because she's killed the
Genetic Dynasty a couple of times, and it's been altered
and it's not but.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
She always killed it in the name of like preserving it.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah, but that's complicated. I was interesting to see her
react to Don Dyne and how she was like, I
saw that baby, I raised him.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, she changed his diapers.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, but kind of I didn't think of her doing that.
I forgot about that part of her role, being kind
of like a nanny.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, because we I don't think since season one have
you really seen.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Her taking care of a little one.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah, because when she had to replace all of them,
she ye unfreezes like a teenage version for Dawn. And
maybe it's has to do with like they can't have
that same kid because he's aged several years now.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, but they basically Gail's like pleading for her life.
She's like, I can see the future, don't kill me.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah. The mersles like that's not how time works.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I like the Gail's description of space and how she
saw it, how it was like, it's not a line, girl,
Like time and space is not linear, it's not flat,
it's something that you can wrap yourself around.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, and she brought the spacers into it. There's actual
evidence that that some zines have differently. Yeah, And as
I said, earlier, Like it's tying in some stuff we
saw on season one that didn't seem to serve a
lot of purpose at the time, but like her being
able to stay awake through their their jumps through hyperspace,
(06:12):
HOWE really define it in the show.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
It was a really good callback because I forgot that
Gail did that. I forgot that she's always been special. Yeah,
so I like that they like it.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Was just one of those things we didn't know what
to make of it in season one.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, I mean even now we still aren't really sure
what it means. Maybe she's part spacer who knows what's
going on there.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah, And they also flashed back to the carry Selwyn
in the first episode making his case before the Emperor.
And you know we have doctor abling Me who is
a descendant of someone from that first scene the first episode.
So that's where like it is like building off of
its foundation.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah, So if we take everything at face value, then
Don is dead.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Don I was worried he died for Gail or because
of Gail. That was a good line.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, but I'm wondering if so if Demersal's booking it
back to Trantor because there's an attack coming, like is
she gonna bother? Like getting a new dawn out? Like
do you have time to even unfreeze one? I think
I don't know, but Demersal has magic fingers that.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Can kind of treat your mind.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, and restart your heart.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah. Fucking Gail was like what the fuck happened? And
we find out that there is a place where the
mule finds her. We have a location now and after
that there's a black hole that Gail ends up in.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yep, and we also know that brother Dusk has a
black hole gun, so we can put that together pretty easily.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah. I didn't even put that together. Thank you for
putting that together for me.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
It's a Chekhov's black hole gun, so we saw it
in the beginning of the season, so it's definitely going
to go off near the end of the season.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, Okay, I don't know the reference, but good Chekhov's
no Who's checkofs.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I believe it comes from theater, a dramatic principle stating
that every element introducing a story should be relevant and
serve a purpose. If the gun is shown, it should
be fired later. The character mentions a particular peculiar skill,
that skill should be used later. Essentially, something is presented
as significant, it must be used a result later in
the narrative.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
That feels obvious. But yeah, that feels so that they're
using a lot of Chekhov's theory here. When Gail was
able to see space when she was supposed to sleep,
that's coming back as significant too interesting.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Is there anything more on their scene? I mean, it
was cool to see them together on screen. I mean,
we've got a hint of it last time.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
But mmm, no, today it was really good. They were
collaborating on like a little forcibly. I think Dermerzal was like,
you're lucky. I let you live. You're interesting, so I'm
going to let you live.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yeah, this little alliance was only because it happened to
be mutually beneficial, sort of like another alliance with the
Traders and Foundation Foundation.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Dude, it sucks that they basically walked into a trap,
like they led the mule to the Foundation. My favorite
part was that Harry Selden was like what and turned
it off.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, so I didn't see that coming. So I know
I've mentioned it on the podcast before. I think I
might have done it in the spoiler section but I
didn't think it was actually going to play out this way,
just because Harry Selden in the show is able to
interact with people and you know, feed off of what
people tell him, you know, whereas in the books he
was kind of just like a pre programmed thing. So
(09:40):
when the Mule happens, like he's totally unprepared for it
and has no knowledge of it.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
And so I wasn't expecting that to happen in the show,
just because he seemed to be aware of how things
are playing out.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, but we forget that Harry Selden is two people. Now,
there's two versions. There's the living version who lived and
died and new who the Mule was and was preparing
for the Mule. And there's the Hairy Seldon that's programmed
in a machine or whatever thing that's prepared for crisis,
Christia's teeth, christ sykes for bad things to happen in
(10:14):
a predictable manner, and the Mule and Gail and even
the Second Foundation are almost an outlier. They're not supposed
They said it themselves. Gaale said I'm an outlier, so
it's crazy. He's like, oh fuck, I'm.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Out yeah, I also get out of my house.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, and they and he went into turtle mode and
I think the mule called him a turtle, So that
was really good. I felt bad that Pritcher's still in
the jail cell. I didn't think that was very fair.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, but I wonder if that will him being positioned
there will help in some way. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
He might not got the mules there, dude. Yeah, he's
gonna like probably be tortured and he's gonna probably die.
That's how I see it, just based on the mules,
like track records. I think the mayor was putting two
and two together with a Pritcher two though, it's like
where were you? Why do you know about the mule
before anybody else?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Yeah? I do like how Beta and Torn are like
it's like really like stepping up as active characters and
assuming their their roles and all this.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, they're uniters. They're uniting, you know, group of people
that were very divided because of some bullshit that had
to do with like their interpretation of the foundation. And
I like that. Harry Selden clocked it and they're like, oh, yeah,
you two are fighting and you're together now because of
(11:43):
Finale like an external force, but he had no idea
what that force was. And I like how she talks
to the musician. I like how she like validates him
and like reassures him and stuff a little a little patronizing,
but I think he likes it.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, she kind of treats him like a pet.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
She called him puppet or pet like puppy.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, but he's just, you know, an artist trying to
get a meal.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah. I feel that.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
When he plays his instrument makes me think of Futurama
where they play the it's like a hollow phone phone.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, that's what it looks like to me.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah. I wonder what instruments they use to make that
instrument sound. Probably a computer, yeah, say computers. Oh my god. Okay,
now we got to talk about Empire going to Song's
house after he stops for some snacks. Yeah, that was
kind of cute. He's like, oh man, they fucked up
with colebal and let me that that cute little Asian
(12:48):
Lady's like, have a snack, you'll never have it again.
And he takes some candy over to his former lover's
house along with her memories. I didn't see that part.
So that was interesting that he brought her the memories.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah. I don't think we knew that he had gathered those.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I kind of thought he might be running off to
restore her memories with the Cloud Kingdom.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah. No, it looks like he had it on his
own and he offers them to her and she doesn't
want them. She's like, no, we had an agreement, And
I think part of her was like really upset that
he kept her for so long because she has a
life outside of the palace, and this was what I
was thinking. I'm like, I don't think that woman loves him,
you know, And I think part of me was right
(13:34):
like in you know, I don't know how it works
when you hook up with the person that likes to
erase your memory?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Well do do they erase? Like?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I don't think they erase your personality. I think that
they just like pinpoint, Okay, you made an agreement, you
agreed to it, and you will continue to be yourself.
But when you come out of this agreement, out of
this evening or day or whatever, we will clean out
your memories and all you will remember is agreeing to
something and leaving, So you are yourself throughout this whole interaction,
(14:10):
but she never even gave him her full name.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, I'm just wondering, Like, so when she's selected by
the empire, like, do they do anything to her memories
at that point or do they just erase at the end.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I think it's at the end when you get to
go home.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Okay, it's not like a dull house thing.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, they don't like erase your memory and you're just
a blank slate. I think the reason they pick you
is because of your personality and your beauty. Right, something
about your personality has to stay intact in order for
them to continue the ruse of like having their fantasy
be fulfilled. But I think she was always pretending. And
(14:50):
she said herself, She's like, if I ever said I
loved you, it was probably because I feared you. You
wouldn't fear somebody you don't know. And if your brain
was like cleaned, you know, you wouldn't know he was
empire or some servant boy or whatever. So I hope
that she's smart enough to take her memories though, so
(15:11):
she knows that she met a robot.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, I mean maybe that robot infro is tempting enough.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, but dang, he fell in love with the lesbian.
That's tough, man, It's real tough.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
And she's like I just thought I was really good
at sex.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And she probably was and pretending when.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Mike Agin looks. I like the kind of world building there,
just they show us with the establishing shots and stuff.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, and even the interior of her home is like
very cozy, very interesting, very different from the palatial space
that he had created for them. And they're a weird
little lama den. Yeah, I would just want to remember jiaf.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
I believe it's called a gear raf. Yeah. In the
the novel Mykagen is it's where they grow a lot
of the food and like the flavorings and stuff. So
that makes sense that, like they had those sweets and
things on there, and in the books everyone there is
completely hairless, and they did not go that route in
the show.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Yeah, that's not aesthetic for Wargrow. But hair.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Where did that storyline end? Was it just like him
at gunpoint?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah? Yeah, he got tased a couple of times and
he was bleeding and.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
This episode was just like Cliffhangers.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Mm hmmm, Cliffhanger City.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Dude, Well, dang, so I mean anything else to cover.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I think we got it all.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I guess when we did start with the Mule, seeing that,
like he's been haunted by Gail the same way she's
been haunted by him. That's interesting, And yeah, he knows
her name now because of han perture.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Like, knowing what they know about the Mule, why would
they send him. He didn't seem like he was capable.
And what worries me is that he's the most capable
and he was still not able to keep the Mule
out of his mind. Yeah, so that's scary. And the
Mule was wreaking havoc on their like armada or whatever,
their their military, their air force, whatever you want to
(17:12):
call it, without the musician, So that's scary too.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Astral Queen, who was the stand out character in the episode?
Speaker 3 (17:24):
All right, we had a lot of people in this episode.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I know who I want Torn Mallow for wearing the
floodiest shirt in the galaxy and carrying his wife across
the battlefield and speaking up and being vocal and saying,
don't you know about the Mule, He's like the most
important thing right now, causing Harry Selden to the glitch
glitch out. So that's who I That's who I'm putting
(17:48):
my astral queen crown on.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
I am continually just like impressed with those characters, even
like when the storyline on Terminus is just like everyone
in that room is like a new character this season
except Terry Seldon, you know. M, but like still really
like engages all of it. And yeah, I think Torn
and Beta are having like a really nice arc of growth, m.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Being like vapid celebrities to revolutionaries.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, I think I want to pick I'm going to
pick Demersal.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Demersal for being kind and not killing.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Gail, for sparing dear Gail's.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Life, yeah, and even saving it.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
And yeah, I mean she was able to like figure
out more of what's the potential future is and Gale's
been able to and she, yeah, saved her life, and
you're just like on a mission the entire time. First
a little bit of revenge.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Now she's off to put out more fires yep.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
And apparently when she reboots, it sets off a little emp.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
That's crazy. That memory was so intense that it made
her like pass out essentially.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, I was wondering if her rebooting would change anything
about here, but didn't seem too.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Now that programming's in her mind. Man, that chip is stuck. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yes, those are our characters, Torren Mallow and the Merzal,
two people who have never met. All right, So that
wraps up the episode. The next one will be season
three episode seven, Foundations End, which I believe is the
title of No it's not. There's a one of the
books it's called Foundation's Edge, but Foundations End sounds bad
(19:32):
for the Foundation.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Good thing, there's a backup.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
That's right. So thanks for spacing out with us, and
remember all competent plans build in backups.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Thank you for spacing out with Boebe and Jason. You
can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
or social media. Next time we will cover Foundations season three,
episode seven, Foundations. We hope you will join us
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