July 29, 2025 • 37 mins
Welcome to Spacing Out With BB and Jason! We’re covering Foundation, and this week we’re discussing season 3, episode 3, “When A Book Finds You”. Thanks for joining us!
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Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
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Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
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#SpacingOut
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason this week,
covering Foundation season three, episode three, When a Book finds You.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Spacy now. I'm BB and.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I'm Jason, and we are discussing the Apple TV sci
fi series Foundation, one episode at a time, covering season
three week to week, and you might be listening to
this on our Foundation podcast, but you can also check
out our main channel, Spacing Out with Phoebe and Jason.
We've covered all sorts of shows on there, including this one.
And you're also welcome the right into us if you want.
(00:37):
We never really.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Mentioned that, but oh yeah, communicate.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
The channels are open. No one ever writes in but
you never know. In this episode, the origins of Don's
interest in psychohistory is revealed, with its first meeting years
ago with a projection of Gail Dornick in the present.
Gail request Don enclosed Kalgan to stimy the Mules. Ascent
the Foundations, Captain Pritcher uses Torn Mallow and Beta as
a way into a lavish mule party. Believe that they're
(01:01):
becoming overcome. After angering the mule at the party, Torn
and Beta escape with his mysterid musician Magnifico Giganticus the
Mule begins reprisals to punish those who did not prevent
the escape on trent Or. Fearing the imminent end of history,
Day seeks the Imperial Garrison's help to leave Tranto. Pervertly
thwarted from stronger action against Calgrin by his brothers, Don
(01:23):
is only able to order continued surveillance, and Demerzelle removes
Dave's companion's song after he reveals to her Demerzal's true nature.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Vive check did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
All? Right?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Three episodes in, How are we doing?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I like it? That's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I'm like, there's turns and twists and the characters are activating.
So I'm very excited.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, just going to repeat what I've said before, but
like all the storylines are engaging. Every time I know
switches to something else, I'm just as interested as the
there's so yeah, it's a lot of fun and it's
I feel like it's firing on all cylinders.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And I'm down for this ride. That first season of Foundation,
I was like, I don't know, dude, this is some
nerd shit that I can't get on board with, but
this one I feel like is approachable.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, it kind of sucks if, like, if you want
to share the show with someone, you're like convinced them
to get through season one. Yeah, because I don't think
you can understand the show without seeing it.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, you kind of have to watch season one.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, this episode continued to be good.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Trivia time. What facts or news could we uncover for
When a Book Finds You?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
This was Foundation season three, episode three, When a Book
Finds You. This originally aired on July twenty fifth, twenty
twenty five, written by Eric Carrasco and Greg Gates and
directed by Tim Southand who's the same director as the
last episode. So the only writer we haven't talked about
before is Greg Gates, who is a writer known for
the Sandman series on Netflix and has also had a
(03:02):
career as a script supervisor. And then just checking in
on the what the critical reception of the season's been
so far, And it's been really positive on Rotten Tomatoes,
the seasons out an eighty eight percent. It's a little
bit down from last season, and in my opinion, I
think this is actually coming in stronger than how last
season started. Yeah, and the other review aggregators are kind
of around that point as well. This episode is also
(03:24):
flagged on IMDb as one of the top rated episodes.
They kind of keep track of you a handful of
episodes that are at the top of the list, so
this is one of the best ones according to the
ratings on IMDb.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts
on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
through email or social media. We may use your comments
on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well, this episode starts in the library.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well a library.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
All good adventures start there.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, it's like Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode. Those kids
are always in the library. Yeah. Brother Don is like,
I want to read this book that got us into
all of this, And apparently anybody who asks for this
book gets to meet Gail Dornick.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, it's like a herd dating service. Yeah, connect me
to anyone who's into this.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, must love dogs and psychohistory. And
she literally does go on a date with him this restaurant,
at this tea house.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah. At times it seemed like this is a little plurity,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, And he's like, how are you three hundred years old,
and she's like, oh, you know, I cry a sleep,
I moisturize. I like this. I like that she kind
of educated him on previous downs and what they like
(05:02):
nature is in some cases where he sees them as
traders because that's what he was, like that, that's the propaganda,
that's what he was, that's what he learned. But she
called them independent thinkers.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
She offered a different perspective on them.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, and she says, you know, when you reach this age,
certain versions of you are looking for an out. And
I wish we could see what happened to the og
Dawn that escaped with the Cloud Princess. They brought him up,
and I'm like, man, we need a flashback or a
flash forward, or we need to see that dynasty or
(05:40):
what happened with that.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, Like is is he just a reference point to
move this character along the ways? Or But I feel
like they made such a big deal about like them
like desterilizing him or whatever they did.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Mm hmmm. So there's I want to see his descendants.
I saw Hobo Mellows, which I never thought i'd care about.
The thing is that, like the universe doesn't know that
these that Empire went rogues that one time, because as
they were escaping, they had sent out those proxy like
people to go out and like say, hey, we're here,
(06:16):
We're queer. Get used to it.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, So it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Was just like it's kind of like a secret that
they left. Speaking of secrets, brother day let a big
one out. Yeah, So I know I'm jumping forward a lot,
but well.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Let me just say about Gail just seems so freaking
cool in that meeting.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, just like laid back, like meaning back in the chair,
Like I could almost see her like with a cigarette, Like,
so you want to work for the foundation?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
I'm like, is this how Gail is going to be
leading without Harry over his shoulder? Because I like it?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I do too, I really do. And then when she
finds out that Harry Selden gave away the prime radiant
and she's like that motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Oh yeah. That's the other thing is that, like she
didn't have all the information going into that meeting either.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So now that she knows Drumoselre Demerzelle, yeah damn well,
you know, mispronouncing a white woman's name. Equality.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
But she spent a lot of season two calling your
Demerzal or something, but it's Demerzel Demersal.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Anyway, She's got the prime radiant and I like that.
He was like, I remember the first time I saw it,
I was five years old, which means she's had it
for a while. She's had it for a long time,
for many decades, maybe even oh.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, we're like two hundred and fifty years past last season,
So she's been working on it long before he was born.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And now he has insight that she doesn't. And it's
very interesting to see their dynamic when they're in that
throne room, because she's like, no, we got to worry
about the counsel and he's like, honey, the mule is
the problem. And he's trying to, like, you know, convince
them that they need to do this thing without giving
away that he's being influenced by an outside source. What
(08:10):
a tangled web they weave.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, so everyone else thinks he's been because pirate.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, he's been overly cautious and he's maybe trying to
flex because he's the new day around the corner.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, like you have power, you just want to use
the military.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So it just I can feel like I relate to
that feeling where you're the only person in the room
who's like sounding the alarm and nobody's listening. Like it's
so hard to feel alone in that moment, knowing that
you're right, knowing that there's like like this is the
reason that the world is going to end, and like
(08:52):
saying like we need to be cautious because there's a
rumor that he can control your mind. Oh, or to
hear that rumor, Don, well, you know it's a rumor. Yeah,
it's very interesting. So I don't know. It's just like
I like that he's kind of like walking this very
thin line of like trying to be influential without overstepping
(09:12):
his position and role at this time. So I really
liked Don in this one that he did really well.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah. And then as you were saying about brother Day,
he's you know, very close with song Oh yeah, to
the point where he is willing to well he.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Thinks he's close because he doesn't even know where she's from. Yeah, Well,
I mean they've been hanging out for six months.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
That could be on her part, like maintaining her secret
because it's illegal for her to be part of that religion.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, And I mean his reaction to like, having a
robot in the house isn't the same as hers, probably like,
but damn, that's like he's been burying his soul. He's
been telling like empire's secrets to this woman, and she
won't even tell him. I believe in robots. I think
(10:03):
there are saviors yep.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
But so it's it's unclear what her reaction really is
at first when she learns about Demersal, But she suddenly
she like wants to stay in the palace and be
like around her because she believes that the robots are
coming back as their saviors or something like that.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, well, and maybe they might be. I mean, there
might be some grain of truth to that, if Demersal
wasn't so help bent on like preserving empire but preserving
humanity instead. But I think, what's who's to say that
those two are not intrinsically like entangled and connected. Who's
(10:46):
I mean? I don't know, though, a fall of an
empire doesn't mean the fall of humanity necessarily. It just
means that humanity will suffer for you know, a period
of time to recover from losing things that empire can bring.
Because I think it's complicated. We think of empire as
(11:08):
this like big evil like thing, but you have to think,
like it's also this agency of like providing some sort
of stability to the people.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, it's it's structure. Yeah, so for good and bad. Yeah,
like lose that like that. That's what the the idea
of the foundation is that like empire will fall and
we're going to minimize the suffering that comes with it.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, it's just like I think a good like governing
body should be made to where even if the governing people,
the people on top, are unavailable, the other parts of
it will still move on, move forward. Like my my
main thing is like even if there's not a president,
(11:55):
we should still have a post office. Even if there's
not a president, we should still have education department, you know,
like things like that. Like, to me, that's what makes
a good like government or empire or whatever you may
call it. That Like, even though there's not a king
in place, the people will still be able to live
(12:16):
their day to day lives and access their day to
day like infrastructure, like life will go on without the emperor.
But I think the way that dem Rezol sees it
is that you know, and I think maybe she's changing
on it because she did kill a couple of them,
where maybe the Empire isn't just the people on the throne,
(12:42):
you know, So I don't know, I'm very interested to
see the challenges that the Empire will face with this
new player on the board. As Gail said, the mule
is on the board, so it's kind of like a
chess game. There was a moment in they're of just
like the Empires, just hanging out, sharing that drink and
(13:03):
that tradition, and it was just really nice to see
them all together kind of as brothers in a way.
I thought it was interesting that they did not engage
in that commodittory until Demrisol left. Yeah, like they kind
of like loosen their tie and unbutton their shirts and
kind of like we're family, and their version of a
(13:25):
family of like this like idea of passing down a
tradition and having like a positive male role model show
you that, like not everything has to be so serious.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, And with these versions of them this season, you know,
they've largely been kind of at odds with each other,
maybe not Don in Dusk as much, but somewhat in
this episode too. So it's just nice to see that
they do have that closeness and that capability of that
mm hmmm, which will probably make it hurt a little
more when whatever inevitably rips them apart throughout the season.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Well, you have one of them wanting to run away,
and then the other one is committing treason, and then
the oldest one has a fucking death star.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
That's true, and is trying to escape death too.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah, somehow escape death while bringing death. What a What
a juxtaposition of an existence. So yeah, I think it's
gonna be very interesting to see. I think it's it's
definitely setting us up for some sort of like tragic
family dispute or like their their relationship that seems tight
(14:36):
and close knit even through their differences, it's going to
be ripped apart by all of these different things pulling
them in these different directions. So I'm very I love that.
I love that, Like I think relational tensions are so
much more exciting than like war fighting or whatever. I
(14:59):
think that dynamics between personalities and having like establishing that
closeness I think is gonna hurt more when they do
finally tear apart. So I kind of love that.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I love that little bit of levity about the geirafe
the grass. Yeah, that was good, right before the Merzil
breaks it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Down that your girlfriend loves robots and she gave me
the I love robots sign and I had to erase
our memory. You're lucky at inn killer, And I think
part of it was also that she like likes that
those people exist. Okay, you guys like robots, Well, I'll
let you live.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah. So that's where we ended the episode, right, It
was that revealing day being pissed off. So I wonder
what his next move is.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Is he still well, he already entangled that guard. Yeah,
and that guard has the memory of them making a plan,
and he the guard needs his daughter to be saved.
Regardless of whether or not this motherfucker wants to leave
or stay. He already promised that he would save his daughter.
It just sucks that he can't escape with his lover.
(16:09):
And honestly, that's all she was is a lover because
she wasn't a partner to him. She was more like
a drug dealer that gave him drugs and sex in
order for her to survive and have her memory for longer.
I think she was very I think she was kind
of playing him in a way. I don't know if
she ever really loved him, if she never revealed herself
(16:31):
to him like that. Because if my partner that I
trusted and loved told me that his nanny advisor is
a robot and I love robots, I'd be like, oh, man,
you know what I have to tell you. I love robots.
I know you hate them, but I love them. I
believe there are saviors, and I think we should stay.
(16:52):
Like to tell you why I believe we should stay,
Not Oh, I think we should stay. I think it's
not it's not a bad idea to just kind of
hang out a little longer.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Well, I mean, she might have gotten to that point,
but they were kind of interrupted.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Because she gave the symbol she she should have also
like stayed chill, like she was obviously enthusiastic enough to
give out away her position to a damn robot, but
not to her partner who she's been sleeping with for
the last six months. That's fucked up. I don't know.
(17:24):
It makes me feel like I could never trust her,
even if she had her memories, even if she even
if fucking the robot lady didn't say shit, Because God
wouldn't that be a plot twist if they like, if
she's like, okay, I'll be your savior.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, but my question is is Day going to go
try to track her down now using his escape route
and go after her, try to get her memory back.
We know that possibilities out there.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
He also suggested that they put their fingers in their
little buttoles. What do you miss that line?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
He said, if you're gonna he's talking when they're in
the throne room, huh said, if we're gonna poke hole
and things, I was just starting with your little buttholes.
At least you get some pleasure out of it.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh he said that, Oh my god, that's funny. Who's
poking holes and things? Okay, that's interesting. I think that
should be your outline.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
So there was a party.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
On the Pleasure Planet cling on what's that planet called?
It's what the keke Kegan Cake Calgan. The Pleasure Planet
has parties. What a novelty. What was weird was that
there was a young person drinking. Yeah, that was you know,
like holy shit, like another level of like just evil
(18:40):
added to the mule. Like I mean he was evil already.
We we know that he's a bad guy, But to
bring a child to that environment and let them drink
and encourage them to drink, I just can't. I can't,
I can't. I hate this guy so much. I hate
him so much, and he's so scary. And I told
(19:02):
you that guy from the Foundation was from Second Foundation.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I still don't think that's true. We saw him in
the first episode.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
But he has brain powers. Yes, that's not part of
the Foundation. That's part of foundation too. We need to
rewatch all the episodes.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
In the first episode, he was with the original Foundation
talking to their mayor and stuff and oh yeah, Craters
and the other Mallow.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I just don't. I cannot believe that there is somebody
with special abilities in this the first Foundation. It's very
hard to believe that. I associate that purely with the
Second Foundation because that's what they've cultivated and what they've encouraged.
So I don't know. I'm confused. I'm confused. Why would
they would give this character those special abilities? And then
(19:50):
he approaches the mule, and the mule clocks him and
he's like, who's Gail Dornick? Tell me more and he's like,
fuck that, And then his eyeball got dirty and he left.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, so I don't know, we didn't get much of him, No,
Von Pritchard's that really understand? Like does he know Gail?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, everybody in the Foundation knows Gail.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Knows of her, but I don't think they know that
she's out there living briefing because the First Foundation does
not know of the Second Foundation, right and Gail wants
to keep it that way, and.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
In her visions, the mule is asking her where is
the Second Foundation? So sorry that was love, Yeah, because
they're the threat to him. Yeah, So when is he
going to find out about the Second Foundation to look
for it and seek it out? Is the cool? Like?
That is a question that's I think a good one
to have at this point right now. But I'm confused
(20:44):
about his allegiance because of his abilities.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Well, and I think I'll do more research. Well, then
I'll do like a book talk thing here at the
end to go into some of these characters and with
how their roles are in the books. That'll be buttentially spoilery,
So if anyone doesn't want to hear that, they don't
have to listen to that. But the party goes on
after Han Pritcher leaves as a beta and Torrin decide
(21:11):
to make themselves useful and investigate the Mule and his musician.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Right the hobo mellow in them came out the descendants.
They're like, oh, we need to figure out what Pritcher
couldn't and they split up and they steal his musician
and then he gets flayed.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
H that was gross.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That was disgusting, and ah, oh oh it would it
should have been more bloody. Honestly, your hand whenever you
get a little cut. I've cut myself with a potato
peeler before. That's why it felt so viscerle to be
way more blood would have come out, way more. It
should have been way bloodier. But I think this show
(21:49):
is trying to like not be that kind of show
right where it's like body Horror. But I think it's
like touching, like it's flirting with it. When it comes
to the Mule. I think that's like a very interesting
choice because I think it elicits terror and fear, and
like Body Horror kind of does that, like whenever you
(22:11):
see like somebody getting flayed, you're definitely going to have
like a gut reaction. But I thought he was very
clever when he's got his like little cameras and he's
like flash, so he was like surprised and couldn't concentrate
on making him one of his many victims. Yeah, that
was very clever. And the girl just steals the musician.
(22:35):
It seems like he's a very like tortured musician too,
in that role that he's playing, In the role he
plays in a hobo or the mule's camp, it looks
like it's forced. It's not very happy, which is weird
because the mule can make him feel like he's happy
doing something that you can manipulate people into thinking they're happy,
So why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you do
(22:59):
that so that he doesn't want to leave? But I
guess it is established that it's very taxing on him
to do these little sides chill acts.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah, and I think he might enjoy torturing people, enjoy
manipulating people in other ways as well.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, but I'm glad they escaped. That was very harrowing.
I'm very glad they escaped. And the what an icon.
She had one dress and she pushes a button and
then it like transforms into another dress. Even before she
went to the concert. The party that is so cunt.
Like that is that is such a like famous, like
(23:42):
like a femme presentation of like power and like status.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
You got to have a reveal.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, and he's not wearing a shirt. He's just like chill.
He's like, yeah, I don't wear a shirt. He carries
like a jacket over his shoulder. And I thought they
were going to have more interaction with that spy guy.
I thought I was going to be a little more interesting,
but it was just very flash in the pan and
then he's out and then we don't see from him again.
So I'm very interested in the next episode that we
(24:09):
see where he goes or what he reports or whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, because he just had to get the heck out
of there. M That's all that happened, right.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Well, Mule took a call from Day and Don, Don
and Dusk and he seemed very bothered. He's like, what
do you want. I'm in the middle of it murdering people. Yeah,
because Don, for the life of him, is trying to
come to some agreement to try to control the Mule,
and it's just he's not succeeding on any fronts, it seems.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, And I think like he wanted that meeting to
help give him the grounds to install that blockade or
whatever they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Mm hmmenclosure and the screaming in the background. That's fucked.
That's so fucked. He's like, oh, are you busy? What
was that? I don't worry about it, but.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, the mule is on the tape, as they say,
so on the board, on the board. I don't want
anyone's going to do next. I'm excited, right.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I hope that guy gets his sick daughter to be
on sick although, like, what kind of illness does she have?
It's very vague. Are her kidneys shutting down? Is she
just got like a flue that won't go away? She
missing a limb? What's going on? Why she's so sick?
What's her diagnosis?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Was it affecting her activities of daily living or what?
Because I feel like disability or illness is it necessarily
a death sentence and the idea of like making somebody
better can sometimes be toxic to the humanity of the
person right better? How I don't know, I need more info.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Do you know who your Astral Queen is?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Astral Queen who was the stand out character in the episode.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I think it's gonna be down Don Don Don Don Don.
He wore a fake mustache and a little go tea
and went to the tea house and met with Gail,
and he was pushing his pieces on the board, trying
so hard to get his queen the mule. So I'm
(26:22):
gonna go for Don, he was like. And then he
had his drink with his brothers. I thought they were
gonna trick him and be like, it's truth sirum. And
then he like tells everybody that he's been talking to Gail.
I thought that was worth that was going.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, he's He's really good in this episode. Yeah, probably
the most central character of it, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, he was in it through the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Gail was really cool, like I said earlier, But I
think I also want to choose brother Don just for
everything he was doing and all the cards he was playing,
and he's doing his best thing it. Yeah, all right,
As I said, I'm gonna do a little bit of
a spoilery book talk thing here, So if you don't
want to hear anything that might potentially be where the
(27:07):
series is going, then you are free to leave and
we'll see you next time for season three, episode four,
the Stress of her regard, Let's put our.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Living stereo stylists in this.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Group Grace for impact. Spoilers ahead. If you haven't read
the book series, now maybe the time to say goodbye.
Remember you can contact us at Spacingoutpod at gmail dot com,
find us on social media, share your thoughts and be
(27:37):
a part of the discussion. Spoilers in five, four, three
two one.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
All right, So I've been reading these books, the Foundation series,
and at this point I've read six of the seven books,
and there's things that have come up in the later
books that I didn't think we're going to have any
connection to the TV series, since the TV series is
really covering the original trilogy. But in the book, I
just read like the mrzles in it as a character
(28:05):
who is a robot, which I thought the Merzl was
unique to the show, but yeah, apparently not. It's a
male character, as many of them are in the books. Rach,
remember Rach from season one, Gil's boyfriend, Harry's kind of somewhat.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Sun Oh, yeah, the one who killed him.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, Rach is a character in the books, and I
think he's a pretty young kid, but he basically is
he gets picked up and kind of adopted by Harry
Selden as Harry Selden is trying to work on psychohistry.
But so Han Pritcher in the books is from the
First Foundation and he gets manipulated by the Mule and
(28:43):
is like full on searching for the Second Foundation on
behalf of a mule.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Ah, that's why you're so sure he's from the First
Foundation too, partially.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah. And then so Beta and Torn are also in
the books. They are not the sentence of Mallow that's
added for the show, but Beta is actually like a
big part of the Mule's downfall. So girl power, and
since they're setting them up as these like kind of
influencer characters that like you don't expect much from, I
(29:15):
think that might be an interesting way to work go
on the show. But I believe, I believe she's like
in a relationship with the Mule, but she is not
under his.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Powers, like she's immune.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I don't know she's immune or he just refused to
manipulate her. And it comes from so this this musician character,
the magnificent character. This is hard for you to remember.
I believe in the books the Mule is undercover as
that character. Oh, and is working alongside doctor ebling Me,
(29:48):
which is doctor Bashir's character, to look for the second foundation.
And then Beta is there too, And because she treats
the Mule just as like a normal person, in care
so much for him that like he doesn't want to
manipulate her or anything he likes before she realizes that
he is the Mule. Oh, yes, I don't know if
that makes sense, but.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, I get it. Interesting, interesting, interesting. I am very
interested to see what happens with the Mule and this
musician and these influencers and them getting away and seeing
the depth of his power and cruelty firsthand and living,
because it feels like anybody who experiences his cruelty doesn't
(30:30):
get to live, or they are living near him in fear,
like the Palace people like it. Probably signed NDA's or something,
because I think ultimately he wants to be seen as
a charismatic leader.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, but since they seem to have made Magnificent a
separate character, I don't know like where that arc is going.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
And as I mentioned the you know, there's not a
lot of strong female characters in those books, especially in
the first trial. The original trilogy, but Beta is perhaps
the exception to that. She comes in I think in
the third novel and is actually like a really fleshed
out character. Oh and then so Mysogen, that's the place
(31:12):
where Song is from. That that is a location in
the book. I just read Prelude to Foundations, a prequel book,
and it is like a very isolated They very clearly
say that, like they're not religious, but they do have
this kind of temple thing that has an old robot
in it.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
But oh my god, do you think there's going to
be a second robot in the show. Maybe, but maybe
not as fancy as Dramasol Demersal, Demersal, I'm excited. Oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
But the in the book, the Misogen sector, they everyone
there post puberty is completely hairless, like they go under
I think, like a surgery to be completely hairless, and
they're grossed out by the outsiders with hair.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Really interesting. I wouldn't mind being completely hairless, but I
feel like I'd still want to wear a wig if
it was cool enough out or do what those ladies
who are in chemo and go bald, they like, get
like Hannah tattoos on their head. I'd get like a
tattoo on my head to decorate it, because I feel
like that's a lot of a lot of skin up there.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So I mean, maybe looking further in the show's future
if it goes on for several more seasons. This kind
of the search for robots is also kind of tied
into their search for Earth as the original planet. But
how are all these planets were descended from? Oh okay,
kind of like the myth of Earth kind of like Battlestar,
Like it's kind of an idea that people don't really
(32:43):
believe to be true, or it's too messy and obscured
to actually research or anything.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
They a drumasol. Demerzol also mentioned Earth in this episode
when she talked about giraffes and the pictograms and all that,
So that was interesting. Yeah, Well, I'm excited. I hope
that this show is able to know when it's gonna end.
Like a lot of shows sometimes like they don't know
(33:10):
that they're in their final season and they write something
that doesn't feel complete, and that's very frustrating as a viewer.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, so hopefully, because I feel like season two did
a good job of like closing off the story arcs
I mean there's some some questions out there, but not
to the point where like I feel betrayed by not
getting a follow up to it. So hopefully this season
will kind of do that same thing, right.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It's just so hard when you don't know how many
seasons you're gonna get outright, Like they should just say,
like I think Breaking Bad had a very good way
of looking at it, where they're like, this is what
we're doing, this is the story, This is how many
seasons we need, this is all we're done doing. We're done.
And then we got lucky that we got a prequel
(33:57):
with Better Call Saul that was also very like encapsulated,
like this is the story we're telling, this is how
many seasons we're getting. And maybe they had that advantage
for being on a network like AMC. It's hard to
say how fixed or how dependable or reliable a season
on Apple TV is going to be.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
So yeah, because I mean this Apple TV is they're
kind of making sci fi one of their bigger niches. Like,
I mean, they've got Severance and Foundation, Silo and for
all Mankind, but Foundation is probably like the most like
hard sci fi doesn't have the I think like the
most like the mainstream appeal that some of the others
(34:40):
like it's easier for a general audience to just get
into Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
You have to see that first season and it's really tough.
So I hope they're able to tell their story in
a way that feels complete to what they're creating, because
that's so hard with television to say we're done, and
then sometimes like they jump the shark fucking Game of Thrones,
Like Game of Thrones could have ended when Danaris like
(35:06):
freed the slaves. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
So here's what the initial pitch was, So David S. Goyer,
who has now left the show, so.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
The initial pitch might be out the door.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yeah. With foundation, we can tell the story hopefully over
the course of eighty episodes or eighty hours, so that
would mean eight seasons. Yeah, I think that is asking
a lot for a show that is, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Getting cleared a season by season.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, And I just like, I know it has a
decent number of fans, but it's not like wildly popular.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, it's not like this World.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Isn't Severance or something that like everyone's talking about around
the water cooler, and I know it sounds like there
was a lot of budgeting disputes for this season. Yeah,
so I mean maybe if they're just going to move
forward with lower production cost, I.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Think they can afford that. I wouldn't mind, like having
less spaceships. I don't think the show is about spaceships,
you know, And I think that's what costs a lot
of money, is like rendering and like visual effects and
all this. And the sets are very lavish too. But
if we're talking about an empire crumbling, we can destroy that,
(36:19):
we can scale it back.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah, really talk about all the locations that they've filmed
in all these different islands.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And stuff, like just film in Canada, Bro.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I mean that might be something that they need to do. Yeah,
because I mean, because I do love that the show
looks beautiful and it doesn't look like they're on CGI sets.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I'm sure there's plenty of CGI at work extending and
manipulating these locations and stuff, but it feels very real
every time they're outdoors and indoors.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
But most of these I mean, Gale does all of
her telecasting in a one room and Empires crumbling, like,
we can we can put we can do things in
a stage. Bro, I don't think we need to go
to Finland every time we need to film the Foundation
or whatever, But I don't know. I really do hope
(37:09):
that they're able to tell their story without any issues
to completion or to a satisfying end. Maybe not necessarily completion,
but so far, so good. I really like it.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, So next time we'll be season three, episode four,
and we'll see you for that, And thank you for
spacing out with us. To remember, all empires fall, they
need no help from us.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Thank you for spacing out with BB and Jason. You
can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
or social media. Next time we will cover Foundations season three,
episode four, The Stress of Her Regard. We hope you
will join us
Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason this week,
covering Foundation season three, episode three, When a Book finds You.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Spacy now. I'm BB and.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I'm Jason, and we are discussing the Apple TV sci
fi series Foundation, one episode at a time, covering season
three week to week, and you might be listening to
this on our Foundation podcast, but you can also check
out our main channel, Spacing Out with Phoebe and Jason.
We've covered all sorts of shows on there, including this one.
And you're also welcome the right into us if you want.
(00:37):
We never really.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Mentioned that, but oh yeah, communicate.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
The channels are open. No one ever writes in but
you never know. In this episode, the origins of Don's
interest in psychohistory is revealed, with its first meeting years
ago with a projection of Gail Dornick in the present.
Gail request Don enclosed Kalgan to stimy the Mules. Ascent
the Foundations, Captain Pritcher uses Torn Mallow and Beta as
a way into a lavish mule party. Believe that they're
(01:01):
becoming overcome. After angering the mule at the party, Torn
and Beta escape with his mysterid musician Magnifico Giganticus the
Mule begins reprisals to punish those who did not prevent
the escape on trent Or. Fearing the imminent end of history,
Day seeks the Imperial Garrison's help to leave Tranto. Pervertly
thwarted from stronger action against Calgrin by his brothers, Don
(01:23):
is only able to order continued surveillance, and Demerzelle removes
Dave's companion's song after he reveals to her Demerzal's true nature.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Vive check did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
All? Right?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Three episodes in, How are we doing?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I like it? That's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It is.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I'm like, there's turns and twists and the characters are activating.
So I'm very excited.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, just going to repeat what I've said before, but
like all the storylines are engaging. Every time I know
switches to something else, I'm just as interested as the
there's so yeah, it's a lot of fun and it's
I feel like it's firing on all cylinders.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And I'm down for this ride. That first season of Foundation,
I was like, I don't know, dude, this is some
nerd shit that I can't get on board with, but
this one I feel like is approachable.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, it kind of sucks if, like, if you want
to share the show with someone, you're like convinced them
to get through season one. Yeah, because I don't think
you can understand the show without seeing it.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, you kind of have to watch season one.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, this episode continued to be good.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Trivia time. What facts or news could we uncover for
When a Book Finds You?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
This was Foundation season three, episode three, When a Book
Finds You. This originally aired on July twenty fifth, twenty
twenty five, written by Eric Carrasco and Greg Gates and
directed by Tim Southand who's the same director as the
last episode. So the only writer we haven't talked about
before is Greg Gates, who is a writer known for
the Sandman series on Netflix and has also had a
(03:02):
career as a script supervisor. And then just checking in
on the what the critical reception of the season's been
so far, And it's been really positive on Rotten Tomatoes,
the seasons out an eighty eight percent. It's a little
bit down from last season, and in my opinion, I
think this is actually coming in stronger than how last
season started. Yeah, and the other review aggregators are kind
of around that point as well. This episode is also
(03:24):
flagged on IMDb as one of the top rated episodes.
They kind of keep track of you a handful of
episodes that are at the top of the list, so
this is one of the best ones according to the
ratings on IMDb.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts
on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
through email or social media. We may use your comments
on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well, this episode starts in the library.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well a library.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
All good adventures start there.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, it's like Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode. Those kids
are always in the library. Yeah. Brother Don is like,
I want to read this book that got us into
all of this, And apparently anybody who asks for this
book gets to meet Gail Dornick.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, it's like a herd dating service. Yeah, connect me
to anyone who's into this.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, must love dogs and psychohistory. And
she literally does go on a date with him this restaurant,
at this tea house.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah. At times it seemed like this is a little plurity,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, And he's like, how are you three hundred years old,
and she's like, oh, you know, I cry a sleep,
I moisturize. I like this. I like that she kind
of educated him on previous downs and what they like
(05:02):
nature is in some cases where he sees them as
traders because that's what he was, like that, that's the propaganda,
that's what he was, that's what he learned. But she
called them independent thinkers.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
She offered a different perspective on them.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, and she says, you know, when you reach this age,
certain versions of you are looking for an out. And
I wish we could see what happened to the og
Dawn that escaped with the Cloud Princess. They brought him up,
and I'm like, man, we need a flashback or a
flash forward, or we need to see that dynasty or
(05:40):
what happened with that.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, Like is is he just a reference point to
move this character along the ways? Or But I feel
like they made such a big deal about like them
like desterilizing him or whatever they did.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Mm hmmm. So there's I want to see his descendants.
I saw Hobo Mellows, which I never thought i'd care about.
The thing is that, like the universe doesn't know that
these that Empire went rogues that one time, because as
they were escaping, they had sent out those proxy like
people to go out and like say, hey, we're here,
(06:16):
We're queer. Get used to it.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, So it.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Was just like it's kind of like a secret that
they left. Speaking of secrets, brother day let a big
one out. Yeah, So I know I'm jumping forward a lot,
but well.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Let me just say about Gail just seems so freaking
cool in that meeting.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, just like laid back, like meaning back in the chair,
Like I could almost see her like with a cigarette, Like,
so you want to work for the foundation?
Speaker 3 (06:52):
I'm like, is this how Gail is going to be
leading without Harry over his shoulder? Because I like it?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I do too, I really do. And then when she
finds out that Harry Selden gave away the prime radiant
and she's like that motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Oh yeah. That's the other thing is that, like she
didn't have all the information going into that meeting either.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So now that she knows Drumoselre Demerzelle, yeah damn well,
you know, mispronouncing a white woman's name. Equality.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
But she spent a lot of season two calling your
Demerzal or something, but it's Demerzel Demersal.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Anyway, She's got the prime radiant and I like that.
He was like, I remember the first time I saw it,
I was five years old, which means she's had it
for a while. She's had it for a long time,
for many decades, maybe even oh.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, we're like two hundred and fifty years past last season,
So she's been working on it long before he was born.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And now he has insight that she doesn't. And it's
very interesting to see their dynamic when they're in that
throne room, because she's like, no, we got to worry
about the counsel and he's like, honey, the mule is
the problem. And he's trying to, like, you know, convince
them that they need to do this thing without giving
away that he's being influenced by an outside source. What
(08:10):
a tangled web they weave.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, so everyone else thinks he's been because pirate.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, he's been overly cautious and he's maybe trying to
flex because he's the new day around the corner.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, like you have power, you just want to use
the military.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So it just I can feel like I relate to
that feeling where you're the only person in the room
who's like sounding the alarm and nobody's listening. Like it's
so hard to feel alone in that moment, knowing that
you're right, knowing that there's like like this is the
reason that the world is going to end, and like
(08:52):
saying like we need to be cautious because there's a
rumor that he can control your mind. Oh, or to
hear that rumor, Don, well, you know it's a rumor. Yeah,
it's very interesting. So I don't know. It's just like
I like that he's kind of like walking this very
thin line of like trying to be influential without overstepping
(09:12):
his position and role at this time. So I really
liked Don in this one that he did really well.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah. And then as you were saying about brother Day,
he's you know, very close with song Oh yeah, to
the point where he is willing to well he.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Thinks he's close because he doesn't even know where she's from. Yeah, Well,
I mean they've been hanging out for six months.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
That could be on her part, like maintaining her secret
because it's illegal for her to be part of that religion.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, And I mean his reaction to like, having a
robot in the house isn't the same as hers, probably like,
but damn, that's like he's been burying his soul. He's
been telling like empire's secrets to this woman, and she
won't even tell him. I believe in robots. I think
(10:03):
there are saviors yep.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
But so it's it's unclear what her reaction really is
at first when she learns about Demersal, But she suddenly
she like wants to stay in the palace and be
like around her because she believes that the robots are
coming back as their saviors or something like that.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, well, and maybe they might be. I mean, there
might be some grain of truth to that, if Demersal
wasn't so help bent on like preserving empire but preserving
humanity instead. But I think, what's who's to say that
those two are not intrinsically like entangled and connected. Who's
(10:46):
I mean? I don't know, though, a fall of an
empire doesn't mean the fall of humanity necessarily. It just
means that humanity will suffer for you know, a period
of time to recover from losing things that empire can bring.
Because I think it's complicated. We think of empire as
(11:08):
this like big evil like thing, but you have to think,
like it's also this agency of like providing some sort
of stability to the people.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, it's it's structure. Yeah, so for good and bad. Yeah,
like lose that like that. That's what the the idea
of the foundation is that like empire will fall and
we're going to minimize the suffering that comes with it.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, it's just like I think a good like governing
body should be made to where even if the governing people,
the people on top, are unavailable, the other parts of
it will still move on, move forward. Like my my
main thing is like even if there's not a president,
(11:55):
we should still have a post office. Even if there's
not a president, we should still have education department, you know,
like things like that. Like, to me, that's what makes
a good like government or empire or whatever you may
call it. That Like, even though there's not a king
in place, the people will still be able to live
(12:16):
their day to day lives and access their day to
day like infrastructure, like life will go on without the emperor.
But I think the way that dem Rezol sees it
is that you know, and I think maybe she's changing
on it because she did kill a couple of them,
where maybe the Empire isn't just the people on the throne,
(12:42):
you know, So I don't know, I'm very interested to
see the challenges that the Empire will face with this
new player on the board. As Gail said, the mule
is on the board, so it's kind of like a
chess game. There was a moment in they're of just
like the Empires, just hanging out, sharing that drink and
(13:03):
that tradition, and it was just really nice to see
them all together kind of as brothers in a way.
I thought it was interesting that they did not engage
in that commodittory until Demrisol left. Yeah, like they kind
of like loosen their tie and unbutton their shirts and
kind of like we're family, and their version of a
(13:25):
family of like this like idea of passing down a
tradition and having like a positive male role model show
you that, like not everything has to be so serious.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Yeah, And with these versions of them this season, you know,
they've largely been kind of at odds with each other,
maybe not Don in Dusk as much, but somewhat in
this episode too. So it's just nice to see that
they do have that closeness and that capability of that
mm hmmm, which will probably make it hurt a little
more when whatever inevitably rips them apart throughout the season.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Well, you have one of them wanting to run away,
and then the other one is committing treason, and then
the oldest one has a fucking death star.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
That's true, and is trying to escape death too.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Yeah, somehow escape death while bringing death. What a What
a juxtaposition of an existence. So yeah, I think it's
gonna be very interesting to see. I think it's it's
definitely setting us up for some sort of like tragic
family dispute or like their their relationship that seems tight
(14:36):
and close knit even through their differences, it's going to
be ripped apart by all of these different things pulling
them in these different directions. So I'm very I love that.
I love that, Like I think relational tensions are so
much more exciting than like war fighting or whatever. I
(14:59):
think that dynamics between personalities and having like establishing that
closeness I think is gonna hurt more when they do
finally tear apart. So I kind of love that.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I love that little bit of levity about the geirafe
the grass. Yeah, that was good, right before the Merzil
breaks it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Down that your girlfriend loves robots and she gave me
the I love robots sign and I had to erase
our memory. You're lucky at inn killer, And I think
part of it was also that she like likes that
those people exist. Okay, you guys like robots, Well, I'll
let you live.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Yeah. So that's where we ended the episode, right, It
was that revealing day being pissed off. So I wonder
what his next move is.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Is he still well, he already entangled that guard. Yeah,
and that guard has the memory of them making a plan,
and he the guard needs his daughter to be saved.
Regardless of whether or not this motherfucker wants to leave
or stay. He already promised that he would save his daughter.
It just sucks that he can't escape with his lover.
(16:09):
And honestly, that's all she was is a lover because
she wasn't a partner to him. She was more like
a drug dealer that gave him drugs and sex in
order for her to survive and have her memory for longer.
I think she was very I think she was kind
of playing him in a way. I don't know if
she ever really loved him, if she never revealed herself
(16:31):
to him like that. Because if my partner that I
trusted and loved told me that his nanny advisor is
a robot and I love robots, I'd be like, oh, man,
you know what I have to tell you. I love robots.
I know you hate them, but I love them. I
believe there are saviors, and I think we should stay.
(16:52):
Like to tell you why I believe we should stay,
Not Oh, I think we should stay. I think it's
not it's not a bad idea to just kind of
hang out a little longer.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Well, I mean, she might have gotten to that point,
but they were kind of interrupted.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Because she gave the symbol she she should have also
like stayed chill, like she was obviously enthusiastic enough to
give out away her position to a damn robot, but
not to her partner who she's been sleeping with for
the last six months. That's fucked up. I don't know.
(17:24):
It makes me feel like I could never trust her,
even if she had her memories, even if she even
if fucking the robot lady didn't say shit, Because God
wouldn't that be a plot twist if they like, if
she's like, okay, I'll be your savior.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, but my question is is Day going to go
try to track her down now using his escape route
and go after her, try to get her memory back.
We know that possibilities out there.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
He also suggested that they put their fingers in their
little buttoles. What do you miss that line?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
He said, if you're gonna he's talking when they're in
the throne room, huh said, if we're gonna poke hole
and things, I was just starting with your little buttholes.
At least you get some pleasure out of it.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh he said that, Oh my god, that's funny. Who's
poking holes and things? Okay, that's interesting. I think that
should be your outline.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
So there was a party.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
On the Pleasure Planet cling on what's that planet called?
It's what the keke Kegan Cake Calgan. The Pleasure Planet
has parties. What a novelty. What was weird was that
there was a young person drinking. Yeah, that was you know,
like holy shit, like another level of like just evil
(18:40):
added to the mule. Like I mean he was evil already.
We we know that he's a bad guy, But to
bring a child to that environment and let them drink
and encourage them to drink, I just can't. I can't,
I can't. I hate this guy so much. I hate
him so much, and he's so scary. And I told
(19:02):
you that guy from the Foundation was from Second Foundation.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I still don't think that's true. We saw him in
the first episode.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
But he has brain powers. Yes, that's not part of
the Foundation. That's part of foundation too. We need to
rewatch all the episodes.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
In the first episode, he was with the original Foundation
talking to their mayor and stuff and oh yeah, Craters
and the other Mallow.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I just don't. I cannot believe that there is somebody
with special abilities in this the first Foundation. It's very
hard to believe that. I associate that purely with the
Second Foundation because that's what they've cultivated and what they've encouraged.
So I don't know. I'm confused. I'm confused. Why would
they would give this character those special abilities? And then
(19:50):
he approaches the mule, and the mule clocks him and
he's like, who's Gail Dornick? Tell me more and he's like,
fuck that, And then his eyeball got dirty and he left.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, so I don't know, we didn't get much of him, No,
Von Pritchard's that really understand? Like does he know Gail?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well, everybody in the Foundation knows Gail.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Knows of her, but I don't think they know that
she's out there living briefing because the First Foundation does
not know of the Second Foundation, right and Gail wants
to keep it that way, and.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
In her visions, the mule is asking her where is
the Second Foundation? So sorry that was love, Yeah, because
they're the threat to him. Yeah, So when is he
going to find out about the Second Foundation to look
for it and seek it out? Is the cool? Like?
That is a question that's I think a good one
to have at this point right now. But I'm confused
(20:44):
about his allegiance because of his abilities.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Well, and I think I'll do more research. Well, then
I'll do like a book talk thing here at the
end to go into some of these characters and with
how their roles are in the books. That'll be buttentially spoilery,
So if anyone doesn't want to hear that, they don't
have to listen to that. But the party goes on
after Han Pritcher leaves as a beta and Torrin decide
(21:11):
to make themselves useful and investigate the Mule and his musician.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Right the hobo mellow in them came out the descendants.
They're like, oh, we need to figure out what Pritcher
couldn't and they split up and they steal his musician
and then he gets flayed.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
H that was gross.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That was disgusting, and ah, oh oh it would it
should have been more bloody. Honestly, your hand whenever you
get a little cut. I've cut myself with a potato
peeler before. That's why it felt so viscerle to be
way more blood would have come out, way more. It
should have been way bloodier. But I think this show
(21:49):
is trying to like not be that kind of show
right where it's like body Horror. But I think it's
like touching, like it's flirting with it. When it comes
to the Mule. I think that's like a very interesting
choice because I think it elicits terror and fear, and
like Body Horror kind of does that, like whenever you
(22:11):
see like somebody getting flayed, you're definitely going to have
like a gut reaction. But I thought he was very
clever when he's got his like little cameras and he's
like flash, so he was like surprised and couldn't concentrate
on making him one of his many victims. Yeah, that
was very clever. And the girl just steals the musician.
(22:35):
It seems like he's a very like tortured musician too,
in that role that he's playing, In the role he
plays in a hobo or the mule's camp, it looks
like it's forced. It's not very happy, which is weird
because the mule can make him feel like he's happy
doing something that you can manipulate people into thinking they're happy,
So why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you do
(22:59):
that so that he doesn't want to leave? But I
guess it is established that it's very taxing on him
to do these little sides chill acts.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yeah, and I think he might enjoy torturing people, enjoy
manipulating people in other ways as well.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, but I'm glad they escaped. That was very harrowing.
I'm very glad they escaped. And the what an icon.
She had one dress and she pushes a button and
then it like transforms into another dress. Even before she
went to the concert. The party that is so cunt.
Like that is that is such a like famous, like
(23:42):
like a femme presentation of like power and like status.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
You got to have a reveal.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, and he's not wearing a shirt. He's just like chill.
He's like, yeah, I don't wear a shirt. He carries
like a jacket over his shoulder. And I thought they
were going to have more interaction with that spy guy.
I thought I was going to be a little more interesting,
but it was just very flash in the pan and
then he's out and then we don't see from him again.
So I'm very interested in the next episode that we
(24:09):
see where he goes or what he reports or whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, because he just had to get the heck out
of there. M That's all that happened, right.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Well, Mule took a call from Day and Don, Don
and Dusk and he seemed very bothered. He's like, what
do you want. I'm in the middle of it murdering people. Yeah,
because Don, for the life of him, is trying to
come to some agreement to try to control the Mule,
and it's just he's not succeeding on any fronts, it seems.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, And I think like he wanted that meeting to
help give him the grounds to install that blockade or
whatever they're talking about.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Mm hmmenclosure and the screaming in the background. That's fucked.
That's so fucked. He's like, oh, are you busy? What
was that? I don't worry about it, but.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, the mule is on the tape, as they say,
so on the board, on the board. I don't want
anyone's going to do next. I'm excited, right.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I hope that guy gets his sick daughter to be
on sick although, like, what kind of illness does she have?
It's very vague. Are her kidneys shutting down? Is she
just got like a flue that won't go away? She
missing a limb? What's going on? Why she's so sick?
What's her diagnosis?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Was it affecting her activities of daily living or what?
Because I feel like disability or illness is it necessarily
a death sentence and the idea of like making somebody
better can sometimes be toxic to the humanity of the
person right better? How I don't know, I need more info.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Do you know who your Astral Queen is?
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Astral Queen who was the stand out character in the episode.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I think it's gonna be down Don Don Don Don Don.
He wore a fake mustache and a little go tea
and went to the tea house and met with Gail,
and he was pushing his pieces on the board, trying
so hard to get his queen the mule. So I'm
(26:22):
gonna go for Don, he was like. And then he
had his drink with his brothers. I thought they were
gonna trick him and be like, it's truth sirum. And
then he like tells everybody that he's been talking to Gail.
I thought that was worth that was going.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Yeah, he's He's really good in this episode. Yeah, probably
the most central character of it, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, he was in it through the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Gail was really cool, like I said earlier, But I
think I also want to choose brother Don just for
everything he was doing and all the cards he was playing,
and he's doing his best thing it. Yeah, all right,
As I said, I'm gonna do a little bit of
a spoilery book talk thing here, So if you don't
want to hear anything that might potentially be where the
(27:07):
series is going, then you are free to leave and
we'll see you next time for season three, episode four,
the Stress of her regard, Let's put our.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Living stereo stylists in this.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Group Grace for impact. Spoilers ahead. If you haven't read
the book series, now maybe the time to say goodbye.
Remember you can contact us at Spacingoutpod at gmail dot com,
find us on social media, share your thoughts and be
(27:37):
a part of the discussion. Spoilers in five, four, three
two one.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
All right, So I've been reading these books, the Foundation series,
and at this point I've read six of the seven books,
and there's things that have come up in the later
books that I didn't think we're going to have any
connection to the TV series, since the TV series is
really covering the original trilogy. But in the book, I
just read like the mrzles in it as a character
(28:05):
who is a robot, which I thought the Merzl was
unique to the show, but yeah, apparently not. It's a
male character, as many of them are in the books. Rach,
remember Rach from season one, Gil's boyfriend, Harry's kind of somewhat.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Sun Oh, yeah, the one who killed him.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah, Rach is a character in the books, and I
think he's a pretty young kid, but he basically is
he gets picked up and kind of adopted by Harry
Selden as Harry Selden is trying to work on psychohistry.
But so Han Pritcher in the books is from the
First Foundation and he gets manipulated by the Mule and
(28:43):
is like full on searching for the Second Foundation on
behalf of a mule.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Ah, that's why you're so sure he's from the First
Foundation too, partially.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah. And then so Beta and Torn are also in
the books. They are not the sentence of Mallow that's
added for the show, but Beta is actually like a
big part of the Mule's downfall. So girl power, and
since they're setting them up as these like kind of
influencer characters that like you don't expect much from, I
(29:15):
think that might be an interesting way to work go
on the show. But I believe, I believe she's like
in a relationship with the Mule, but she is not
under his.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Powers, like she's immune.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
I don't know she's immune or he just refused to
manipulate her. And it comes from so this this musician character,
the magnificent character. This is hard for you to remember.
I believe in the books the Mule is undercover as
that character. Oh, and is working alongside doctor ebling Me,
(29:48):
which is doctor Bashir's character, to look for the second foundation.
And then Beta is there too, And because she treats
the Mule just as like a normal person, in care
so much for him that like he doesn't want to
manipulate her or anything he likes before she realizes that
he is the Mule. Oh, yes, I don't know if
that makes sense, but.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, I get it. Interesting, interesting, interesting. I am very
interested to see what happens with the Mule and this
musician and these influencers and them getting away and seeing
the depth of his power and cruelty firsthand and living,
because it feels like anybody who experiences his cruelty doesn't
(30:30):
get to live, or they are living near him in fear,
like the Palace people like it. Probably signed NDA's or something,
because I think ultimately he wants to be seen as
a charismatic leader.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, but since they seem to have made Magnificent a
separate character, I don't know like where that arc is going.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
And as I mentioned the you know, there's not a
lot of strong female characters in those books, especially in
the first trial. The original trilogy, but Beta is perhaps
the exception to that. She comes in I think in
the third novel and is actually like a really fleshed
out character. Oh and then so Mysogen, that's the place
(31:12):
where Song is from. That that is a location in
the book. I just read Prelude to Foundations, a prequel book,
and it is like a very isolated They very clearly
say that, like they're not religious, but they do have
this kind of temple thing that has an old robot
in it.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
But oh my god, do you think there's going to
be a second robot in the show. Maybe, but maybe
not as fancy as Dramasol Demersal, Demersal, I'm excited. Oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
But the in the book, the Misogen sector, they everyone
there post puberty is completely hairless, like they go under
I think, like a surgery to be completely hairless, and
they're grossed out by the outsiders with hair.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Really interesting. I wouldn't mind being completely hairless, but I
feel like I'd still want to wear a wig if
it was cool enough out or do what those ladies
who are in chemo and go bald, they like, get
like Hannah tattoos on their head. I'd get like a
tattoo on my head to decorate it, because I feel
like that's a lot of a lot of skin up there.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
So I mean, maybe looking further in the show's future
if it goes on for several more seasons. This kind
of the search for robots is also kind of tied
into their search for Earth as the original planet. But
how are all these planets were descended from? Oh okay,
kind of like the myth of Earth kind of like Battlestar,
Like it's kind of an idea that people don't really
(32:43):
believe to be true, or it's too messy and obscured
to actually research or anything.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
They a drumasol. Demerzol also mentioned Earth in this episode
when she talked about giraffes and the pictograms and all that,
So that was interesting. Yeah, Well, I'm excited. I hope
that this show is able to know when it's gonna end.
Like a lot of shows sometimes like they don't know
(33:10):
that they're in their final season and they write something
that doesn't feel complete, and that's very frustrating as a viewer.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Yeah, so hopefully, because I feel like season two did
a good job of like closing off the story arcs
I mean there's some some questions out there, but not
to the point where like I feel betrayed by not
getting a follow up to it. So hopefully this season
will kind of do that same thing, right.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It's just so hard when you don't know how many
seasons you're gonna get outright, Like they should just say,
like I think Breaking Bad had a very good way
of looking at it, where they're like, this is what
we're doing, this is the story, This is how many
seasons we need, this is all we're done doing. We're done.
And then we got lucky that we got a prequel
(33:57):
with Better Call Saul that was also very like encapsulated,
like this is the story we're telling, this is how
many seasons we're getting. And maybe they had that advantage
for being on a network like AMC. It's hard to
say how fixed or how dependable or reliable a season
on Apple TV is going to be.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
So yeah, because I mean this Apple TV is they're
kind of making sci fi one of their bigger niches. Like,
I mean, they've got Severance and Foundation, Silo and for
all Mankind, but Foundation is probably like the most like
hard sci fi doesn't have the I think like the
most like the mainstream appeal that some of the others
(34:40):
like it's easier for a general audience to just get
into Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
You have to see that first season and it's really tough.
So I hope they're able to tell their story in
a way that feels complete to what they're creating, because
that's so hard with television to say we're done, and
then sometimes like they jump the shark fucking Game of Thrones,
Like Game of Thrones could have ended when Danaris like
(35:06):
freed the slaves. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
So here's what the initial pitch was, So David S. Goyer,
who has now left the show, so.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
The initial pitch might be out the door.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yeah. With foundation, we can tell the story hopefully over
the course of eighty episodes or eighty hours, so that
would mean eight seasons. Yeah, I think that is asking
a lot for a show that is, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Getting cleared a season by season.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Yeah, And I just like, I know it has a
decent number of fans, but it's not like wildly popular.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, it's not like this World.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Isn't Severance or something that like everyone's talking about around
the water cooler, and I know it sounds like there
was a lot of budgeting disputes for this season. Yeah,
so I mean maybe if they're just going to move
forward with lower production cost, I.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Think they can afford that. I wouldn't mind, like having
less spaceships. I don't think the show is about spaceships,
you know, And I think that's what costs a lot
of money, is like rendering and like visual effects and
all this. And the sets are very lavish too. But
if we're talking about an empire crumbling, we can destroy that,
(36:19):
we can scale it back.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Yeah, really talk about all the locations that they've filmed
in all these different islands.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And stuff, like just film in Canada, Bro.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I mean that might be something that they need to do. Yeah,
because I mean, because I do love that the show
looks beautiful and it doesn't look like they're on CGI sets.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
I'm sure there's plenty of CGI at work extending and
manipulating these locations and stuff, but it feels very real
every time they're outdoors and indoors.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
But most of these I mean, Gale does all of
her telecasting in a one room and Empires crumbling, like,
we can we can put we can do things in
a stage. Bro, I don't think we need to go
to Finland every time we need to film the Foundation
or whatever, But I don't know. I really do hope
(37:09):
that they're able to tell their story without any issues
to completion or to a satisfying end. Maybe not necessarily completion,
but so far, so good. I really like it.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, So next time we'll be season three, episode four,
and we'll see you for that, And thank you for
spacing out with us. To remember, all empires fall, they
need no help from us.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Thank you for spacing out with BB and Jason. You
can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
or social media. Next time we will cover Foundations season three,
episode four, The Stress of Her Regard. We hope you
will join us
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