June 10, 2025 • 29 mins
Welcome to Spacing Out With BB and Jason! We’re covering Foundation, and this week we’re discussing season two, episode six, “Why the Gods Made Wine”. Thanks for joining us!
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Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
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#SpacingOut
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SpacingOutPod
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X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spacing_out_podcast/
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/Spacing_Out_Pod
#SpacingOut
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to spacing Out with BB and Jason this week
covering Foundation season two, episode six, Why the Gods Made Wine.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to spacing Out.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I'm Bb and I'm Jason, and we are discussing the
Apple TV sci fi series Foundation, one episode at a time.
Spoiler free. We have not watched anything beyond this episode,
so we can't spoil it.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
In this episode, Salvor meets a young Mentallic and learns
how Tellum rescues telepaths, but tensions rise when Tellum opposes
a second Foundation and gives Gail an ultimatum choose between
Harry and the Mentallics. Harry distrusts tell him, and after
an argument, she secretly traps him in a title pool
to drown while he experiences visions of his past on
(00:50):
trantor Sarah upstage his brother Day during their public introduction,
unsettling him, while Constant and Polly arrive and are promptly arrested. Meanwhile,
Hober locates the Spacer mothership and boards it, and Constant no,
that's see. In the sentence.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Vibe check, did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It was all right. I like this one.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, I think this was a pretty solid episode. Honestly. Yeah,
I was not expecting it to go into like this
deep dive into Harry Selden's background and stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
But I think they want you to like him, yeah,
which is helping.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, it wasn't off putting. If you told me in
advance of like you're gonna spend like the last twenty
minutes of this episode just all Harry Seldyn, they'd be like,
oh God. But yeah, no, it was really interesting and yeah,
all the all the storylines are interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So I forgot all about that magician guy.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah, honestly, I don't remember what he's trying to do
right now.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
He's like on some coordinate mission.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, I know they sent him on a mission. They
gave him the ship and everything. I still remember what
his goal was. I assume they're going to touch on
that next episode.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So trivia time, What facts or news could we uncover
for Why the Gods Made Wine?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
This is Foundation season two, episode six, Why the Gods
Made Wine originally aired on August eighteenth, twenty twenty three,
and the teleplay was written by Jane Espenson, with a
story by David S. Goyer and directed by Alex Graves.
All Right, so I couldn't find any specific trivia about
this episode, but I thought we could look at what's
to come with season three, which I'm sure we'll look
(02:35):
at it again when we get to the end of
the season. But so season three does not have a
release state yet, but it expected to come out in
twenty twenty five. And season three began filming in late
May twenty twenty three, and then filming was halted due
to the Hollywood labor disputes, and then when it resumed
production in February twenty twenty four, production disbanded once again
(02:57):
due to budgetary issues, before then resume in March twenty
twenty four, and then showrunner David S. Goyer has now
parted ways with the series, presumably due to these budget disputes.
So a lot of turmoil with the third season, but
it appears to have been shot and should come out
sometime over the next year. And then Alexander Sadig, who
(03:18):
we know as doctor Julian Basher, he's been cast in
a role as doctor Ebling Meee, was a character from
the books, and if you remember, he was also in
I think the first episode of the first season as
a different character, so he must be a fan to
want to come back new something else?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Are the album or the money was right?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, it's true. That sounds like the money's tight. They
also announced that season four writing is underway with a
new showrunner on board.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts
on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
through email or social media. We may use your comments
on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
All right, deep Space dive. Unless you're Harry Seldon and
that's a deep sea dive. O, suck it, Harry. Why
are the gods made wine?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Why they say was to distract you because your enemies,
like you couldn't stab them, so you make them foolish
or something like that. So it's all about betrayal, That's
what it was. They look like little country bumpkins coming
into that city. They're like, oh, going through security and
(04:33):
like seeing all those people and stuff and talk like
laying out all their cards to immigration like idiots. Yeah what,
no wonder they got caught up?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, like surely their their immigration isn't as simple as
just like okay, here you go.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I mean some people, that's that's all it takes. It's
just like what are you what are you in for
I'm here to visit family, who I'm here on a vacation.
All right, here's your travel visa. Have fun. And that's
how a lot of people actually get into the country
and then they like it, or they get a job,
or they fall in love, and they end up overstaying
(05:14):
their visa. There's if there was an easier way to
become a lawful resident in this country where we live
right now, in the United States, that would we wouldn't
have so many quote unquote illegal people. Like I don't
feel like people can be illegal, it's just that their
status in the country is not easy to It's it's
(05:36):
not lawful or whatever. But most of most people that
come here, they just end up staying over their their
travel visa or their student visa. God forbid. You come
here and they find out you're working. But it was like, oh, yeah,
I'm from the outer reach and I'm here to talk
to Empire about our business. Why would you tell them
(05:56):
all that I'm here to travel, I'm a visit.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, I'm I'm hearing a diplomatic mission yet unannounced.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
No appointment, No one's expecting me. That sucks.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Though they got disappeared and right as he was letting
go of his addiction.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, no, I think he let it go when he
met that Harry Selden in that little prison.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, so that's what they were doing on Trentor. We
also touched space with the emperor making his announcement to
the people that was then bowguarded hijacked.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Even the handmaiden or the Asian lady who takes after her,
was like kind of shook that she was doing all this,
and he gave her a look like I'm gonna beat
you when we get home. Their relationship is so toxic,
and I'm worried about empire because he's not popular by
any means anymore. Like he's losing planets, he's doing bad stuff.
(06:53):
So having a fresh young face with a cloud dress on, like,
what do you do.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
When you don't what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
He's like handing over the empire to this young woman,
like she's way more charismatic than he is. He sucks.
He's gonna he's like fucking around and finding out all at.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Once, yep, because he can't just like get rid of
her now because they made that big public announcement. She's like, hey,
this is basically a democracy. Now it's telling the people
that we serve you and your requests are our obligations.
And the look on his face is like, that's the
worst thing I've ever heard. Yeah, Like I hate that idea.
(07:33):
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And meanwhile the other brother down and Dusk are like, yeah,
he's about to find out.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
They were like ooh. When she had grabbed the mic,
the old one especially, his reaction was great, Oh, it's crazy.
I don't know, man, that's why you That's why I
like you. Really, he really didn't vet her, and I
feel like they're conversation in the bedroom when he became
(08:02):
flaccid should have been a red flag because this guy,
obviously the reason he loves the robot is because she
is controllable. He commands her and she obeys. This other
woman is not like that at all, and they're obviously
not compatible, So like, why force this because the empire's dying.
(08:26):
I'm interested to see what's going to happen with her
after this little outburst. Yeah, this episode had a lot
of not Gails, but her daughter, what's her name, sal Salvar.
It had a lot of Salvar in it.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, in the beginning, she was learning all about the mentallics.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, she saw that little boy's memory of getting his
throat slit and how that one lady saved him. And
then he's like, oh yeah, and then we do this
cool mind trick where we can speak out of our
brains to each other. And she tried to do it
and she can figure it out. And then he takes
her into town or the village or whatever, and everybody
(09:08):
touches her memories. Yeah, which is interesting, like I think.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, and by the people too, just like like zombies
reaching at her.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You know, that's how you saw it. That's not how
I saw it. I saw it as like a group
of people who were excited to share their story with
a stranger in a way that we don't get to
do a lot in our daily lives. To share your story,
especially something that's traumatic or you know the reason why
(09:39):
you're othered it's it's uh trauma bonding a little bit.
So I kind of like that. I thought it was
sweet and special and kind of overwhelmbeaten too, Like I
would be so overwhelmed to be one touched by so
many people, but also to be flooded with the experiences,
the smells, the sights, the emotions of what they felt
(10:03):
right before they were saved by this woman. That would
be overwhelming, I think, And so I like that she
had to take some time and go be alone with
Harry and Fish.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And they try to figure out why why would Harry
have been made human? It seems like, oh, he's weaker
now than when he was more but her.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Her logic was that he now he has some skin
in the game. Yeah, literally, like he's physically manifested in
a way where he can lose his life, and now
maybe life is more precious to him as a human
than it would have been as an algorithms or whatever
the fuck he was.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, there's a lot of concern about, you know, failing
to see the humanity and all this when they're trying
to save people, and that people can become numbers or
just you know, planets without faces to them.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What a plot twist that that lady who saved so
many lives as actually like a people hate her, like
she hates normal humans like Harry. I was like, oh damn,
she's just as bad as the humans are who are
like persecuting the people that she's saving.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, because at first, when she's like, I like what
you're trying to do saving people. I just wish we
could do it without Harry Seldon. I'm like, yeah, me too,
I can get.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
On board with that. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm
honestly like, yeah, I can understand that. I feel that,
and I think Gail should totally go solo.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
But then she starts saying a few things here and there.
She's like, we should be saving the right people or
something like that. Oh yeah, I don't know what do
you make of her.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I think she's a classic like sociopath where you pick
and choose who's worthy of your time and energy and
you don't see the humanity and the people that aren't
like you. So it's just like it's a typical asshole.
(12:06):
She's a dick. She's only saving the people she deems
worthy of saving, which is not the way that you
should be saving people. It's like, I don't know, It's like,
just because you don't like everybody doesn't mean they don't
deserve to live. But that's exactly how she feels. Because
we are different, we deserve to live, and no everybody
(12:30):
else deserves to die perish. And she wants to destroy
the Foundation because it's saving a version of humanity that
she does not agree should be saved. I mean, I
don't know. You can't pick and choose who's human and
who's worthy of living a human life. And when you
start doing that, you start becoming the problem. So it
(12:53):
kind of sucks because I really liked her in the
first episode she showed up in.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, So now we're in this situation where it's like
it's hard to try anyone when she can be so
manipulative and deceptive.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And she like makes you go into your own mind
to fuck you up, yeah, and do things you don't
want to do, like when she threw the water at
Gale and she like made her be at her home
planet all of a sudden. That was so fucked up
to do that to somebody without their consent, without warning,
that like that right there was like huge red flag.
(13:27):
To show up unannounced, to talk to me out of
your voice in a way that's kind of condescending, like well,
I can't talk like that. How dare you, you know,
talk to me on my level, and then to manipulate
me to the point where I feel like, oh, you're
trying to make me vulnerable, and then present an idea
to me that says, turn your back on everything that
(13:52):
you know and join this group without any knowledge of
what this group is really about. You've known us for
like a couple of hours, but here lead us because
you're special. And Gail fucking takes the bait, which shows
that she's still fooper ignorant and young and naive about
(14:13):
the world around her. Because if a bitch had me
going back to my home world, a place that brings
me a lot of grief, I'd be on edge and
I would be not receptive at all, especially with the
circumstances in which we met are deception, lies and outright
like like just falsifying your identity, Like why would I
(14:36):
trust you at all? Like her testing the water is
the least of what she should be doing, but then
she goes out and grabs some fruit and gives it
to her daughter, Like, bitch, what if that fruit's poisoned?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
To right, That's what I was thinking the whole time,
because they just talked about how like maybe we can't
drink the water.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
What makes you think you can eat or some random fruit?
I don't know. It's so fucking weird. I don't understand.
And her character development or lack thereof, Like I don't
like because to me, the Gail character doesn't want to
be the center of attention. She's just kind of been
pulled into this because she's a smart girl, and she's
(15:14):
been used for her intelligence time and time again, and
now she's just falling into another trap where another person
is using her intelligence or her ability to their advantage.
That's what Harry did, and now that's what this other
woman is doing. And when is she going to fall
out of this trap of moving for other people? When
is she going to find her own purpose? What if
(15:36):
the foundation has nothing to do with her? She just
she's smart enough to see it, Yes, But what if
she's smarter to move beyond the foundation And we haven't
even gotten into that at all. How there's a flaw
in the foundation that she saw there's she hasn't done
anything to bring that to light, to bring a resolution
to try to fix that problem. What is she doing?
(15:59):
She's trying to eat a cult? Now what the fuck?
I'm confused about her character development, I really am, and
I must I'm a little upset about it because you
would think that after being used and manipulated for so long.
Literal centuries. First it was Race, and then it was Harry,
(16:19):
and now it's this woman, Like, when is she gonna
break out of this fucking pattern? It's fucked up. I
don't like it. I don't like it at all. And
I hope that she's able to disconnect from these toxic
people and find her own pass or solve the foundation
problem in a way that Harry couldn't do or can't do.
I don't know, it's upsetting. I'm just like, why is
(16:40):
she doing this? It makes no sense, Like the lady's
argument was not compelling.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Enough for me. Yeah, so it's almost like she convinced
her off screen. Yeah, so I don't don't have to
make of that because tell them even says to her, like,
these are your weaknesses. This is what Harry is used to,
you know, manipulate you. And then I feel like she
uses those things. Yeah literally, all right, So she has
someone impersonate Harry and fly the beggar.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Right, she has fucking lackeys. That's already, like, that's how
bad she is. She's so bad. She has fucking henchman pretending. Well,
first of all, she has Gail and them come out
and she's like, well, Gail's not gonna be your friend anymore,
and she wants you to leave because we're doing the
foundation without you. And she manipulates Harry to the point
(17:31):
where he's like run away and cry, and that's when
she takes her opportunity to impersonate Harry and have him
fly away on the ship, which honestly would have been
the best thing for him to do if he could
have done that, just fucking leave those bitches. Then, Like
when I saw him leave, I'm like, finally he's leaving,
(17:53):
and he's taking the Radiant with him. Good for him.
It's like when you're the little kid who gets bullied
and you find decide you're gonna go home and you're
taking your ball with you. What are they gonna play
with now? But it was actually her two steps ahead
of him, fucking taking the thing that has like taking
the ship so they can turn it inside out looking
(18:15):
for this fucking thing that they want to destroy, and
she straps him down to a tidepool. Evil genius. Evil genius.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, So now I feel like all our hope is
with Salvor because Gail, I feel like she's in the
cold now.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, she's in She's in like sin, she's gone. She's
their leader now quote unquote leader, and what's her name.
She's like, well, we're gonna explain to her what death means.
You know, we're gonna fix it. She's she's gonna forgive me,
and she won't mats. She won't care that Harry dies
because he's a normy. Yeah, like shit, she's fucked up.
(18:57):
And then as Harry is like in his I don't know,
it's not a deathbed, but it's kind of like a deathbed.
He's like in his final stages of death, he gets
transported into these old the past. We see his past,
we see what he's guilty about, why he like decided,
like why he's been so quiet since he got there,
(19:18):
and he's like kind of reserved. Apparently he's a fucking murderer.
Yeah what and he killed uh, some bitch from the
empire in a pencil skirt with the fucking stampede like
scar from fucking the loing Like what Also, the haircut
(19:41):
that they gave to young Harry is fucking ass. What
the fuck was that? What the fuck was that they
should have made him wear a little hat or something?
What the hell? Like a little professor hat you know
what the hell? I don't know, man, his past is
like a very interesting I still don't understand how he
(20:01):
got away with murder and was able to recruit Gail
with a national contest for mass after that.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I mean, I assume that because he did so much
manipulation of their tech that he was able to cover
whatever tracks or were I guess, so just yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I'm guessing he took the deal because he was at
trantor eventually, so what was all that? I don't want
to go I'll be I'll be so upset if I
leave this city. Oh, I'll be so worthless. And he's
such a whiner. Just take the deal, go be by
the like. You can have your happy wife and life
(20:46):
and be under a constant surveillance here, or you can
give up your tech. Now, those are your choices, and
you chose neither, and you fucking did the thing you
didn't want to do anyway, minus a wife and child
or whatever. You're your partner. So it's just like, boohoo.
I'm so sad when he said if I go there,
(21:10):
I'm gonna be so like limited in what I can do.
And welcome to the world. Welcome to the world of
living in any sort of authoritarian government. You don't want
to give up your freedom, bro, When did you have it?
When did you have this perceived freedom? Because it's all perceived, baby,
(21:32):
it's not real. You were always gonna have to do
one or the other. You didn't really have a choice.
But you made it worse for yourself by throwing a
fucking tantrum and not listening to the woman in your life.
And then you lost her, and then you went and
murdered another woman. You murdered two women with your actions,
one directly one indirectly. He's a trash human being. I
(21:54):
don't like him, Like all of this just made me
feel like, Aha, fuck, just let him die. His life
is miserable. Let him just die. He doesn't want to
live anyway, right, Like he thinks everyone is gonna die
and every the world is going all down the toilet,
and we need a foundation so we can come out
(22:15):
of the toilet a nice new turd. Let him die.
We don't need Harry Selden, we really don't. I'm interested
to see what's going to happen with him as he
is graining the toilet.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, so we also learned that his wife Yanna was like,
the reason psychohistory works is because of her. Yeah, even
though he's out there getting all the credit these days
like a man. But yeah, I did find that backstory
actually really engaging. Yeah, I was really good. I was
really upset that he murdered a girl fucking scarf from
(22:46):
the Lion King style, like what the fuck? You know,
if Mufasa just recognized the patterns, he would have been fine. Yeah. So, yeah,
he's drowning and we've fade the black on that. So
I think, I mean, Salvor was the one that got
to talk to him in between him storming away from
that argument and being put in that pool. Yeah, so,
(23:09):
I mean she hopefully is suspicious of everything because she
knows that, like, well, one, he wanted her to find
the radiant the radio on the ship, so it doesn't
make sense that he would have taken her away.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
If he doesn't know where it is.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, and then we briefly touched in with hober Mallow
and him arriving with the Spacers.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
The genetically engineered humans. Yeah, we learned that in this
episode too, that they're genetically engineered humans. Yes, so we
will see what their significance to the Foundation is I
like that They're like, what have you soiled the space?
Why did you taint it? It's you're nasty.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Well yeah, so I'm I'm guessing we're gonna see more
of him next episode. He was just kind of threadd
in there lightly anything else on this episode.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I'd like more flashbacks, Like I think I said that
in the last episode that I'm like, I really enjoyed
spending time in the past, So I really do enjoy that.
I think that helps us with the character development in
a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, because I mean, Harry Selman is more human now
than he has been the whole show. Mm hmmm, and
not just because he's literally human now.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
And I was surprised it was such a lengthy flashback.
I assumed we were just getting a quick flashback.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Right, I thought we were going to see the murder
and that's it. But we saw the whole development of
like him becoming a tenured professor and accepting the job
and developing these crazy ideas and getting a watchdog assigned
to him, and you know, maneuvering the staircases and meeting
(24:54):
a new anganu who helped him like break over in
his study. He is Field of study in a way
that never before has been seen. And then he like
has a baby, and then all of a sudden he
doesn't have a baby.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And oh my god, accidentally turn on some other show,
like a academic drama.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I don't know. I liked it though I thought it
was good. I really do like the flashbacks. I want
to see a flashback of what happened to the Cloud
Princess's parents. For all of the referencing of oh, you
killed my family or my family's dead, I haven't seen
their tragedy and I would love to see that, Like
I want to see the especially because she survived the attack,
(25:41):
so I would love to see that story. Yeah, maybe
it's in the works.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, I mean maybe we will will get it, just
because they've now revealed like the Emperor was behind it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
But yeah, I'm into the flashbacks. I think I'm starting
to get into the show.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Would you like to get into the astral Queen section?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Oh shit, yeah, astral Queen who was the standout character
in the episode. I'm gonna pick a homegirl, more specific Balvor.
She caught a fish, she did, and it was her birthday.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It was her birthday.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And she got to uh, you know, connect with the people,
learn about stuff, and she.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Seemed like genuinely happy through a lot of this episode.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I liked her role in this one. I thought she
was really present, Like I think part of it was
that what she did a lot was questions. She had
questions for Harry, she had questions for that kid. She
had questions, and I love a bitch who has questions.
As a bitch who has questions, I love me a
bitus questions.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, she didn't come come out any of it with
judgment or anything.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
No, it was just pure curiosity and learning and understanding
and just being open to an experience. Who's your astro queen?
Is it the Cloud Princess?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I'm leaning that way. I also had Salvar in mind because.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
That Cloud Princess. That dress was iconic, that cloud dress.
I want that dress, even with that little bit of
titty coming out. Love it.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah. I did love her speech and how angry she's
made brother day oh.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Man, that was the angriest teeth Like, I've never seen
that guy act harder.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
So yeah, I'll pick her for a moment. I was
thinking I might pick tell him, but then her character
went off the deep end.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, I really miss the good days when she
was just a hairy hater. But when she was when
she said all normis die, I'm like, oh no, oh no, friend,
that's a genocide.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Oh no, well, yeah, so Salvar and Sarah will be
receiving awards on this the birthday of Salvar.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Only if you're counting the solar cycles of tram toor
or whatever she sucked terminus terminus, it's only her birthday
if you're coning the solar cycles of her that is.
That's so cute too.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
And is she not like hundreds of years old?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Now I don't know. I don't know how old she
would be.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
All right, let wraps up the episode. Then we'll be
back for episode this seven. Yeah, episode seven a necessary death.
I wonder if that's Harry. Thank you for spacing out
with us, and remember when you feel the tug of history,
give it a whole.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
What what's that from?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
So he says when she catches a fish?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Oh that's a really good one. I'm gonna get that tattooed.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Thank you for spacing out with Bebe and Jason. You
can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
or social media. Next time we will cover Foundation season two,
episode seven, A Necessary Death
Welcome to spacing Out with BB and Jason this week
covering Foundation season two, episode six, Why the Gods Made Wine.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to spacing Out.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
I'm Bb and I'm Jason, and we are discussing the
Apple TV sci fi series Foundation, one episode at a time.
Spoiler free. We have not watched anything beyond this episode,
so we can't spoil it.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
In this episode, Salvor meets a young Mentallic and learns
how Tellum rescues telepaths, but tensions rise when Tellum opposes
a second Foundation and gives Gail an ultimatum choose between
Harry and the Mentallics. Harry distrusts tell him, and after
an argument, she secretly traps him in a title pool
to drown while he experiences visions of his past on
(00:50):
trantor Sarah upstage his brother Day during their public introduction,
unsettling him, while Constant and Polly arrive and are promptly arrested. Meanwhile,
Hober locates the Spacer mothership and boards it, and Constant no,
that's see. In the sentence.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Vibe check, did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
It was all right. I like this one.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yeah, I think this was a pretty solid episode. Honestly. Yeah,
I was not expecting it to go into like this
deep dive into Harry Selden's background and stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
But I think they want you to like him, yeah,
which is helping.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, it wasn't off putting. If you told me in
advance of like you're gonna spend like the last twenty
minutes of this episode just all Harry Seldyn, they'd be like,
oh God. But yeah, no, it was really interesting and yeah,
all the all the storylines are interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So I forgot all about that magician guy.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah, honestly, I don't remember what he's trying to do
right now.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
He's like on some coordinate mission.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, I know they sent him on a mission. They
gave him the ship and everything. I still remember what
his goal was. I assume they're going to touch on
that next episode.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So trivia time, What facts or news could we uncover
for Why the Gods Made Wine?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
This is Foundation season two, episode six, Why the Gods
Made Wine originally aired on August eighteenth, twenty twenty three,
and the teleplay was written by Jane Espenson, with a
story by David S. Goyer and directed by Alex Graves.
All Right, so I couldn't find any specific trivia about
this episode, but I thought we could look at what's
to come with season three, which I'm sure we'll look
(02:35):
at it again when we get to the end of
the season. But so season three does not have a
release state yet, but it expected to come out in
twenty twenty five. And season three began filming in late
May twenty twenty three, and then filming was halted due
to the Hollywood labor disputes, and then when it resumed
production in February twenty twenty four, production disbanded once again
(02:57):
due to budgetary issues, before then resume in March twenty
twenty four, and then showrunner David S. Goyer has now
parted ways with the series, presumably due to these budget disputes.
So a lot of turmoil with the third season, but
it appears to have been shot and should come out
sometime over the next year. And then Alexander Sadig, who
(03:18):
we know as doctor Julian Basher, he's been cast in
a role as doctor Ebling Meee, was a character from
the books, and if you remember, he was also in
I think the first episode of the first season as
a different character, so he must be a fan to
want to come back new something else?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Are the album or the money was right?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, it's true. That sounds like the money's tight. They
also announced that season four writing is underway with a
new showrunner on board.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts
on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
through email or social media. We may use your comments
on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
All right, deep Space dive. Unless you're Harry Seldon and
that's a deep sea dive. O, suck it, Harry. Why
are the gods made wine?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Why they say was to distract you because your enemies,
like you couldn't stab them, so you make them foolish
or something like that. So it's all about betrayal, That's
what it was. They look like little country bumpkins coming
into that city. They're like, oh, going through security and
(04:33):
like seeing all those people and stuff and talk like
laying out all their cards to immigration like idiots. Yeah what,
no wonder they got caught up?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, like surely their their immigration isn't as simple as
just like okay, here you go.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I mean some people, that's that's all it takes. It's
just like what are you what are you in for
I'm here to visit family, who I'm here on a vacation.
All right, here's your travel visa. Have fun. And that's
how a lot of people actually get into the country
and then they like it, or they get a job,
or they fall in love, and they end up overstaying
(05:14):
their visa. There's if there was an easier way to
become a lawful resident in this country where we live
right now, in the United States, that would we wouldn't
have so many quote unquote illegal people. Like I don't
feel like people can be illegal, it's just that their
status in the country is not easy to It's it's
(05:36):
not lawful or whatever. But most of most people that
come here, they just end up staying over their their
travel visa or their student visa. God forbid. You come
here and they find out you're working. But it was like, oh, yeah,
I'm from the outer reach and I'm here to talk
to Empire about our business. Why would you tell them
(05:56):
all that I'm here to travel, I'm a visit.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, I'm I'm hearing a diplomatic mission yet unannounced.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
No appointment, No one's expecting me. That sucks.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Though they got disappeared and right as he was letting
go of his addiction.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah, no, I think he let it go when he
met that Harry Selden in that little prison.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, so that's what they were doing on Trentor. We
also touched space with the emperor making his announcement to
the people that was then bowguarded hijacked.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Even the handmaiden or the Asian lady who takes after her,
was like kind of shook that she was doing all this,
and he gave her a look like I'm gonna beat
you when we get home. Their relationship is so toxic,
and I'm worried about empire because he's not popular by
any means anymore. Like he's losing planets, he's doing bad stuff.
(06:53):
So having a fresh young face with a cloud dress on, like,
what do you do.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
When you don't what do you mean?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
He's like handing over the empire to this young woman,
like she's way more charismatic than he is. He sucks.
He's gonna he's like fucking around and finding out all at.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Once, yep, because he can't just like get rid of
her now because they made that big public announcement. She's like, hey,
this is basically a democracy. Now it's telling the people
that we serve you and your requests are our obligations.
And the look on his face is like, that's the
worst thing I've ever heard. Yeah, Like I hate that idea.
(07:33):
I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
And meanwhile the other brother down and Dusk are like, yeah,
he's about to find out.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
They were like ooh. When she had grabbed the mic,
the old one especially, his reaction was great, Oh, it's crazy.
I don't know, man, that's why you That's why I
like you. Really, he really didn't vet her, and I
feel like they're conversation in the bedroom when he became
(08:02):
flaccid should have been a red flag because this guy,
obviously the reason he loves the robot is because she
is controllable. He commands her and she obeys. This other
woman is not like that at all, and they're obviously
not compatible, So like, why force this because the empire's dying.
(08:26):
I'm interested to see what's going to happen with her
after this little outburst. Yeah, this episode had a lot
of not Gails, but her daughter, what's her name, sal Salvar.
It had a lot of Salvar in it.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yeah, in the beginning, she was learning all about the mentallics.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, she saw that little boy's memory of getting his
throat slit and how that one lady saved him. And
then he's like, oh yeah, and then we do this
cool mind trick where we can speak out of our
brains to each other. And she tried to do it
and she can figure it out. And then he takes
her into town or the village or whatever, and everybody
(09:08):
touches her memories. Yeah, which is interesting, like I think.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Well, and by the people too, just like like zombies
reaching at her.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You know, that's how you saw it. That's not how
I saw it. I saw it as like a group
of people who were excited to share their story with
a stranger in a way that we don't get to
do a lot in our daily lives. To share your story,
especially something that's traumatic or you know the reason why
(09:39):
you're othered it's it's uh trauma bonding a little bit.
So I kind of like that. I thought it was
sweet and special and kind of overwhelmbeaten too, Like I
would be so overwhelmed to be one touched by so
many people, but also to be flooded with the experiences,
the smells, the sights, the emotions of what they felt
(10:03):
right before they were saved by this woman. That would
be overwhelming, I think, And so I like that she
had to take some time and go be alone with
Harry and Fish.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And they try to figure out why why would Harry
have been made human? It seems like, oh, he's weaker
now than when he was more but her.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Her logic was that he now he has some skin
in the game. Yeah, literally, like he's physically manifested in
a way where he can lose his life, and now
maybe life is more precious to him as a human
than it would have been as an algorithms or whatever
the fuck he was.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, there's a lot of concern about, you know, failing
to see the humanity and all this when they're trying
to save people, and that people can become numbers or
just you know, planets without faces to them.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
What a plot twist that that lady who saved so
many lives as actually like a people hate her, like
she hates normal humans like Harry. I was like, oh damn,
she's just as bad as the humans are who are
like persecuting the people that she's saving.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Yeah, because at first, when she's like, I like what
you're trying to do saving people. I just wish we
could do it without Harry Seldon. I'm like, yeah, me too,
I can get.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
On board with that. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm
honestly like, yeah, I can understand that. I feel that,
and I think Gail should totally go solo.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
But then she starts saying a few things here and there.
She's like, we should be saving the right people or
something like that. Oh yeah, I don't know what do
you make of her.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I think she's a classic like sociopath where you pick
and choose who's worthy of your time and energy and
you don't see the humanity and the people that aren't
like you. So it's just like it's a typical asshole.
(12:06):
She's a dick. She's only saving the people she deems
worthy of saving, which is not the way that you
should be saving people. It's like, I don't know, It's like,
just because you don't like everybody doesn't mean they don't
deserve to live. But that's exactly how she feels. Because
we are different, we deserve to live, and no everybody
(12:30):
else deserves to die perish. And she wants to destroy
the Foundation because it's saving a version of humanity that
she does not agree should be saved. I mean, I
don't know. You can't pick and choose who's human and
who's worthy of living a human life. And when you
start doing that, you start becoming the problem. So it
(12:53):
kind of sucks because I really liked her in the
first episode she showed up in.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, So now we're in this situation where it's like
it's hard to try anyone when she can be so
manipulative and deceptive.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And she like makes you go into your own mind
to fuck you up, yeah, and do things you don't
want to do, like when she threw the water at
Gale and she like made her be at her home
planet all of a sudden. That was so fucked up
to do that to somebody without their consent, without warning,
that like that right there was like huge red flag.
(13:27):
To show up unannounced, to talk to me out of
your voice in a way that's kind of condescending, like well,
I can't talk like that. How dare you, you know,
talk to me on my level, and then to manipulate
me to the point where I feel like, oh, you're
trying to make me vulnerable, and then present an idea
to me that says, turn your back on everything that
(13:52):
you know and join this group without any knowledge of
what this group is really about. You've known us for
like a couple of hours, but here lead us because
you're special. And Gail fucking takes the bait, which shows
that she's still fooper ignorant and young and naive about
(14:13):
the world around her. Because if a bitch had me
going back to my home world, a place that brings
me a lot of grief, I'd be on edge and
I would be not receptive at all, especially with the
circumstances in which we met are deception, lies and outright
like like just falsifying your identity, Like why would I
(14:36):
trust you at all? Like her testing the water is
the least of what she should be doing, but then
she goes out and grabs some fruit and gives it
to her daughter, Like, bitch, what if that fruit's poisoned?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
To right, That's what I was thinking the whole time,
because they just talked about how like maybe we can't
drink the water.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
What makes you think you can eat or some random fruit?
I don't know. It's so fucking weird. I don't understand.
And her character development or lack thereof, Like I don't
like because to me, the Gail character doesn't want to
be the center of attention. She's just kind of been
pulled into this because she's a smart girl, and she's
(15:14):
been used for her intelligence time and time again, and
now she's just falling into another trap where another person
is using her intelligence or her ability to their advantage.
That's what Harry did, and now that's what this other
woman is doing. And when is she going to fall
out of this trap of moving for other people? When
is she going to find her own purpose? What if
(15:36):
the foundation has nothing to do with her? She just
she's smart enough to see it, Yes, But what if
she's smarter to move beyond the foundation And we haven't
even gotten into that at all. How there's a flaw
in the foundation that she saw there's she hasn't done
anything to bring that to light, to bring a resolution
to try to fix that problem. What is she doing?
(15:59):
She's trying to eat a cult? Now what the fuck?
I'm confused about her character development, I really am, and
I must I'm a little upset about it because you
would think that after being used and manipulated for so long.
Literal centuries. First it was Race, and then it was Harry,
(16:19):
and now it's this woman, Like, when is she gonna
break out of this fucking pattern? It's fucked up. I
don't like it. I don't like it at all. And
I hope that she's able to disconnect from these toxic
people and find her own pass or solve the foundation
problem in a way that Harry couldn't do or can't do.
I don't know, it's upsetting. I'm just like, why is
(16:40):
she doing this? It makes no sense, Like the lady's
argument was not compelling.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Enough for me. Yeah, so it's almost like she convinced
her off screen. Yeah, so I don't don't have to
make of that because tell them even says to her, like,
these are your weaknesses. This is what Harry is used to,
you know, manipulate you. And then I feel like she
uses those things. Yeah literally, all right, So she has
someone impersonate Harry and fly the beggar.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Right, she has fucking lackeys. That's already, like, that's how
bad she is. She's so bad. She has fucking henchman pretending. Well,
first of all, she has Gail and them come out
and she's like, well, Gail's not gonna be your friend anymore,
and she wants you to leave because we're doing the
foundation without you. And she manipulates Harry to the point
(17:31):
where he's like run away and cry, and that's when
she takes her opportunity to impersonate Harry and have him
fly away on the ship, which honestly would have been
the best thing for him to do if he could
have done that, just fucking leave those bitches. Then, Like
when I saw him leave, I'm like, finally he's leaving,
(17:53):
and he's taking the Radiant with him. Good for him.
It's like when you're the little kid who gets bullied
and you find decide you're gonna go home and you're
taking your ball with you. What are they gonna play
with now? But it was actually her two steps ahead
of him, fucking taking the thing that has like taking
the ship so they can turn it inside out looking
(18:15):
for this fucking thing that they want to destroy, and
she straps him down to a tidepool. Evil genius. Evil genius.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, So now I feel like all our hope is
with Salvor because Gail, I feel like she's in the
cold now.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, she's in She's in like sin, she's gone. She's
their leader now quote unquote leader, and what's her name.
She's like, well, we're gonna explain to her what death means.
You know, we're gonna fix it. She's she's gonna forgive me,
and she won't mats. She won't care that Harry dies
because he's a normy. Yeah, like shit, she's fucked up.
(18:57):
And then as Harry is like in his I don't know,
it's not a deathbed, but it's kind of like a deathbed.
He's like in his final stages of death, he gets
transported into these old the past. We see his past,
we see what he's guilty about, why he like decided,
like why he's been so quiet since he got there,
(19:18):
and he's like kind of reserved. Apparently he's a fucking murderer.
Yeah what and he killed uh, some bitch from the
empire in a pencil skirt with the fucking stampede like
scar from fucking the loing Like what Also, the haircut
(19:41):
that they gave to young Harry is fucking ass. What
the fuck was that? What the fuck was that they
should have made him wear a little hat or something?
What the hell? Like a little professor hat you know
what the hell? I don't know, man, his past is
like a very interesting I still don't understand how he
(20:01):
got away with murder and was able to recruit Gail
with a national contest for mass after that.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I mean, I assume that because he did so much
manipulation of their tech that he was able to cover
whatever tracks or were I guess, so just yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I'm guessing he took the deal because he was at
trantor eventually, so what was all that? I don't want
to go I'll be I'll be so upset if I
leave this city. Oh, I'll be so worthless. And he's
such a whiner. Just take the deal, go be by
the like. You can have your happy wife and life
(20:46):
and be under a constant surveillance here, or you can
give up your tech. Now, those are your choices, and
you chose neither, and you fucking did the thing you
didn't want to do anyway, minus a wife and child
or whatever. You're your partner. So it's just like, boohoo.
I'm so sad when he said if I go there,
(21:10):
I'm gonna be so like limited in what I can do.
And welcome to the world. Welcome to the world of
living in any sort of authoritarian government. You don't want
to give up your freedom, bro, When did you have it?
When did you have this perceived freedom? Because it's all perceived, baby,
(21:32):
it's not real. You were always gonna have to do
one or the other. You didn't really have a choice.
But you made it worse for yourself by throwing a
fucking tantrum and not listening to the woman in your life.
And then you lost her, and then you went and
murdered another woman. You murdered two women with your actions,
one directly one indirectly. He's a trash human being. I
(21:54):
don't like him, Like all of this just made me
feel like, Aha, fuck, just let him die. His life
is miserable. Let him just die. He doesn't want to
live anyway, right, Like he thinks everyone is gonna die
and every the world is going all down the toilet,
and we need a foundation so we can come out
(22:15):
of the toilet a nice new turd. Let him die.
We don't need Harry Selden, we really don't. I'm interested
to see what's going to happen with him as he
is graining the toilet.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, so we also learned that his wife Yanna was like,
the reason psychohistory works is because of her. Yeah, even
though he's out there getting all the credit these days
like a man. But yeah, I did find that backstory
actually really engaging. Yeah, I was really good. I was
really upset that he murdered a girl fucking scarf from
(22:46):
the Lion King style, like what the fuck? You know,
if Mufasa just recognized the patterns, he would have been fine. Yeah. So, yeah,
he's drowning and we've fade the black on that. So
I think, I mean, Salvor was the one that got
to talk to him in between him storming away from
that argument and being put in that pool. Yeah, so,
(23:09):
I mean she hopefully is suspicious of everything because she
knows that, like, well, one, he wanted her to find
the radiant the radio on the ship, so it doesn't
make sense that he would have taken her away.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
If he doesn't know where it is.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yeah, and then we briefly touched in with hober Mallow
and him arriving with the Spacers.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
The genetically engineered humans. Yeah, we learned that in this
episode too, that they're genetically engineered humans. Yes, so we
will see what their significance to the Foundation is I
like that They're like, what have you soiled the space?
Why did you taint it? It's you're nasty.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
Well yeah, so I'm I'm guessing we're gonna see more
of him next episode. He was just kind of threadd
in there lightly anything else on this episode.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I'd like more flashbacks, Like I think I said that
in the last episode that I'm like, I really enjoyed
spending time in the past, So I really do enjoy that.
I think that helps us with the character development in
a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, because I mean, Harry Selman is more human now
than he has been the whole show. Mm hmmm, and
not just because he's literally human now.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
And I was surprised it was such a lengthy flashback.
I assumed we were just getting a quick flashback.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Right, I thought we were going to see the murder
and that's it. But we saw the whole development of
like him becoming a tenured professor and accepting the job
and developing these crazy ideas and getting a watchdog assigned
to him, and you know, maneuvering the staircases and meeting
(24:54):
a new anganu who helped him like break over in
his study. He is Field of study in a way
that never before has been seen. And then he like
has a baby, and then all of a sudden he
doesn't have a baby.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And oh my god, accidentally turn on some other show,
like a academic drama.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I don't know. I liked it though I thought it
was good. I really do like the flashbacks. I want
to see a flashback of what happened to the Cloud
Princess's parents. For all of the referencing of oh, you
killed my family or my family's dead, I haven't seen
their tragedy and I would love to see that, Like
I want to see the especially because she survived the attack,
(25:41):
so I would love to see that story. Yeah, maybe
it's in the works.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, I mean maybe we will will get it, just
because they've now revealed like the Emperor was behind it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
But yeah, I'm into the flashbacks. I think I'm starting
to get into the show.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Would you like to get into the astral Queen section?
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Oh shit, yeah, astral Queen who was the standout character
in the episode. I'm gonna pick a homegirl, more specific Balvor.
She caught a fish, she did, and it was her birthday.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It was her birthday.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And she got to uh, you know, connect with the people,
learn about stuff, and she.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Seemed like genuinely happy through a lot of this episode.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I liked her role in this one. I thought she
was really present, Like I think part of it was
that what she did a lot was questions. She had
questions for Harry, she had questions for that kid. She
had questions, and I love a bitch who has questions.
As a bitch who has questions, I love me a
bitus questions.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, she didn't come come out any of it with
judgment or anything.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
No, it was just pure curiosity and learning and understanding
and just being open to an experience. Who's your astro queen?
Is it the Cloud Princess?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I'm leaning that way. I also had Salvar in mind because.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
That Cloud Princess. That dress was iconic, that cloud dress.
I want that dress, even with that little bit of
titty coming out. Love it.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah. I did love her speech and how angry she's
made brother day oh.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Man, that was the angriest teeth Like, I've never seen
that guy act harder.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
So yeah, I'll pick her for a moment. I was
thinking I might pick tell him, but then her character
went off the deep end.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, yeah, I really miss the good days when she
was just a hairy hater. But when she was when
she said all normis die, I'm like, oh no, oh no, friend,
that's a genocide.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Oh no, well, yeah, so Salvar and Sarah will be
receiving awards on this the birthday of Salvar.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Only if you're counting the solar cycles of tram toor
or whatever she sucked terminus terminus, it's only her birthday
if you're coning the solar cycles of her that is.
That's so cute too.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
And is she not like hundreds of years old?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Now I don't know. I don't know how old she
would be.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
All right, let wraps up the episode. Then we'll be
back for episode this seven. Yeah, episode seven a necessary death.
I wonder if that's Harry. Thank you for spacing out
with us, and remember when you feel the tug of history,
give it a whole.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
What what's that from?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
So he says when she catches a fish?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Oh that's a really good one. I'm gonna get that tattooed.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Thank you for spacing out with Bebe and Jason. You
can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
or social media. Next time we will cover Foundation season two,
episode seven, A Necessary Death
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