September 9, 2025 • 56 mins
In this episode, we will be exploring another interesting and common Chinese herb: zhī mǔ, Anemarrhenae Rhizoma or Anemarrhena Rhizome. This herb is in the Chinese medical subcategory of herbs that drain fire under the category of herbs that clear heat. This is a commonly used herb for cooling heat while also generating yin and fluids to moisten dryness. As always, we will do our deep dive into this herb and look at its traditional uses, and its preparation, interactions, and cautions and see if the science supports its use. And as usual, we will be exploring something a little different…In this case, we will be discussing another Chinese herbal legend about our herb. Each episode of the podcast will go into great depth about a single herb or formula. Besides covering the basics of herbology including category, and functions, we will explore the history, quality, science, pharmacology, evidence, and any potential interactions of each herb or formula. Please join us for this journey to the center of herby goodness by exploring zhī mǔ, Anemarrhenae Rhizoma or Anemarrhena Rhizome!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
That Angelica Sperb.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to episode ninety three of Sperbs Herbs.
Today's herb is going to be sure MoU ani morena
rhizoma or ani morena riisome.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
So without further ado.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Let's get into it all right, Just there we go.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay today's episode.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
In this episode, we will be exploring another interesting and
common Chinese herb, sure MoU ana marina raizoma or ani
morena riisome. This herb is in the Chinese medical subcategory
of herbs that are the drain fire category under the
category of herbs that clear heat is commonly used herb
(00:58):
for cooling heat while also generating.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yin in fluids to moisten dryness.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
And as usual, we will be exploring something a little different.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
In this case, we'll be discussing another Chinese orble legend
about our herb. Please join us for this journey to
the center of Irby goodness. Before we get into that,
just want to say about an amazing deal that we're doing.
We are starting an amazing special for our courses if
you use them for continuing education, professional development activities, or
(01:32):
just for your own edification. We are offering fifty hours
of courses for an unbelievable price.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Normally this would cost seven hundred and fifty dollars. However,
with the special code fifty CEUs, this is going that's
the number five is the five zero CEUs. This is
going to be only three dollars three hundred and twenty
five three dollars three hundred and twenty five dollars or
only six dollars and fifty cents per hour plus on
(02:03):
top of that. In addition too you can get a
free signed copy of one of my books. Just pay
for shipping and handling. This is a free copy of
Integrative Pharmacology combining modern pharmacology with.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
An integrative medicine.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
That has a seventy five dollars book for free or
playing the game A step by step approach to accepting
insurance as an acupuncturist, and that's a that's a not
a seventy five dollars book, but it's still a good book.
I think it's thirty or thirty five dollars book, so
it's still a good book. Either of those for free.
Whatever you want to do, and all you need to
(02:36):
do is go to the web page www. Dot Integrative
Medicine Council dot org. That's Integrated Medicine Council Council dot org.
So slash CEUs one. That's CEUs one number one for
this amazing deal.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So let's do an herbal legend.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So this is from Chinese Herbal Legends, fifty stories for
understanding Chinese herbs.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I love this little book. I got it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I was teaching at the school and the representative from
this from this book company came out and he had
this small little book. I can for those of you
on online, I can show it. She has a small
little book that has fifty herbs, which you think would
be a lot, but I've only come across out of
ninety three episodes, I think I've only used it five
to ten times. So it's poort nerbs, but not all
(03:28):
the important herbs. Great little book.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I love it, and it just adds a nice little
spark to the herbs.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So I'm gonna go into I'm gonna read one of
the herbal legends that is in there about the herb ture.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Let me get into my voice'es mode.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Here, long long ago, there was an old woman who
had no children. She had gathered a medicinal herbs since
she was young, but because she always gave them to
people without charging, she had not saved money.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
When she was old and weak and could no.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Longer climb the mountain to gather medicinal herbs, she had
to beg from village to village. She worried all day,
not because of her bitter life, but because she could
not pass on her skills of recognizing medicinal herbs. And
once she died, who else could gather herbal medicine for
the people. So the old woman was determined to look
(04:22):
for an honest man to whom to pass on her skills.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
She said to all she met.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Whoever takes me as his mother, I will tell him
how to recognize medicinal herbs. The son of a rich
family heard this and thought, if I could cure disease,
won't it be another way to fawn on high officials. Therefore,
he invited the old woman to join his family. Old lady,
(04:48):
I am willing to be your son. Please tell me
what medicinal herbs can cure disease.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
He said. The ol and gave the rich son a
quick look and asked, why are you in such a hurry.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
First, I will see how you treat me. The rich
son had the old woman live in a good house
and gave her new clothes and served her good food.
But after ten days, when the rich son saw that
the old woman didn't speak of medicinal herbs, he could
no longer restrain himself. Mother, you should tell me how
to recognize medicinal herbs.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It's still too early. How long must I wait? About?
Ten years? What? The rich son was angry? I have
to provide you with food for ten years. Humph, Go
away and don't cheat cheat me any longer.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Sneering, the old woman put her original clothes back on
and unhurriedly left the rich son's home. Again, she begged
and shouted on the street as before. One day a
merchant hurt her as he thought that he could make
a lot of money by selling medicine. Called to the
old woman at once. I'm willing to take you as
(06:03):
my mother, he said. So then the old woman lived
in the merchant's house after the merchant. After the merchant
had served her for one month, you could no longer
keep calm. Can you really recognize herbal medicine? He asked, certainly,
Please tell me teach me how to do it. It's not
yet the proper time. How long should I wait until
(06:26):
I die?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Oh? The merchant shook all over with anger. You devil woman?
Do you think I'm a monkey? Returned to begging. It's
you who invited me. Humph. I was blind. Apparently I
like that word. Humph.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
After the old woman was driven out of the merchant's house,
she went on begging and groaning. Whoever takes me as
his mother, I will tell him how to recognize medicinal herbs,
she muttered. Days pasted. People thought she was mad, and
no one spoke to her. One winter, when the old
woman had arrived in a small village, she fell down
(07:03):
before a gate. The master of this family was.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
A boatman, and he helped the old woman into his house.
Old lady, what is wrong with you? Are you hurt?
Are you ill? He asked?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
No, I'm not ill, I'm hungry. Immediately, the boatman asked
his wife to cook a pot of soup and brought
it to her.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
We have no good food at home.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Please have this while it's hot. After the old woman ate,
she began to feel warm and wanted to go, where
are you going on such a cold day? Asked the
boatman and his wife. Oh, the old woman heaved a
deep sigh. I am so poor that I have to beg.
On hearing this, both the boatman and his wife felt
(07:47):
sympathy for her. You are so old and it's not
easy for you to beg. You don't mind our poverties.
Please stay with us, they told her. The old woman
didn't refuse, and she stayed. Time flew, spring came, and
the flowers began to blossom. How can I always eat
(08:10):
food in your house? Please let me go on, said
the old woman. You have no children and we have
no parents. Isn't it a good thing that we lived
together as a family, asked the boatman.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
To tell you the truth.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Previously, I gathered medicinal herbs. I knew many kinds which
could cure diseases and save people's lives. I had wanted
to adopt a son so I could pass on my skills,
But now I am too old and muddled to recognize
any of those herbs. Now you are taking care of me,
but I have no way to repay you, said the
old woman. We are all poor people. I don't need
(08:45):
to be repaid. As long as we have foujiat, you
won't be hungry. Please don't go out begging, said the boatman.
All right, I will take this place as my home
and you as my son. From that time on, the
boatman and his wife regarded the old woman.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
As their own mother. The old woman helped them take
care of the children and to do some housework. They
loved the old woman too.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Because she didn't want the old woman to be too
hot or too cold. Bowman's wife wouldn't let her start
fires in June or wash clothes in December. The old
woman lived there comfortably for three years. When summer came
that third year, she.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Was already eighty years old.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
My son, I want to climb up the mountain to
look around, she said.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
One day. Mother, you are too old. You will get tired.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I feel bored, so I want to have a look
at the mountain scenery.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Let me carry you there on my back.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
When the bowman carried the old woman up the mountain
on his back, sometimes she wanted to go east and
then west, up the slope and down the valley. The
bowman became very tired, and he sweated a lot, But
instead of getting upset, he joked.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
To make her happy.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
When they came to a slope or wild grass was growing,
the old woman asked the boatman to stop. She got down,
sat on a stone and pointed at a bundle of
grass with striped leaves and white flowers with purple stripes.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Go dig it up, she said.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
The bowman went there and dug out it until a
yellowish brown root appeared.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Mother, what is this, he asked.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
This is a medicinal herb. It's root kink your lung, heat, coughing, consumption, fever,
and so on. It's very useful, my son. I think
you know why I didn't teach you how to recognize
it before. After thinking a while, the boatman said, you
must have wanted to find an honest man. To him
you could pass on your skills. You were afraid that
(10:41):
if a batman ler them, he would only make a
pile of money and cheat people. I have searched for
such a man for many years, but found no one.
My son, you really understand what I think. So I
named this medicinal herb jermu for knowing one's mind. There
so the old woman with a smile, and she taught
(11:03):
the boman to recognize many other medicinal herbs.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
He began to gather them, and he always.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Remembered her words and cured poor people's diseases as the
old woman had done. And that is the herbal legend
around Shermu. And with that, amuse Boush, let's discuss our
herb proper. So today we're going to be talking about
your mumu.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Again, my Chinese.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I've had several years of Chinese, but it's not the
My pronunciation is the best, so please forgive me uh.
In Latin, Santa Marina raizoma and then it's just Ana
raina rhizome. There's not a bunch of difference between the
common name and the and the Latin name. It's from
the family Liliassier. Standard species is Ana marina asphilodes BG periods,
(11:54):
So BG again remember refers to the biologist who first
classified it. The medicinal part is the rhizome. Remember, the
rhizome are the the parts coming off of the root,
the sort of strangling parts coming.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Off the route. In English, it means know about mother.
That's what Germu stands for.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Lee ser Jen, who's a very famous, very famous herbalist,
says alongside the main route, the accessory roots have the
appearance of insect larvae. Larva crawling toward their mother. Larvae
are called chur and this gradually became jur hen Germu
(12:37):
about mother.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
So that's where the words come from. Where the name
comes from, I love.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And when they give an explanation of where the name
of these come from other names, there's lots of other
Chinese names, Maljermu, juan, Jermu, Jermu, row jan Jermu, liam Mu,
swan beyond zi, sal chermu or egg mother, Yaleao wild
water weed, de shn earth, ginsing, chwey shen water gen
(13:08):
sing hue jun water dredger, pull MoU goods matrix, and
tmu cicada mother. And in Japanese it's churmo and it
created its gmo and I don't pounce. Japanese are creand
so that's just my best stab at them. So let's
talk about that lily asse family just for a bit
before we get in worn into the herb. This is
(13:31):
the lily family and contains about fifteen genera and six
hundred and ten species of flowering plants. These include lilies
and tulips. Common characteristics include large flowers with parts arranged
in threes with six colored or patterned pedaloid teepoles. Tepol
is one of the hour points of the flower. The
term is used when these parts cannot be classified as
(13:54):
either sepoles or petals, so that is a pedaloid teepole,
undifferent shaded petals and sepals arranged in.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Two whorls that swirls.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Six stamins stamens and a superior ovary. Most species are
grown from bulbs, although some have rhizomes and many liliasse
are important ornamental plants. All three of our texts agree
on the dosage of six to twelve.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Grams per day.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That's unusual that they perfectly agree. Chang Shend does add
there as a maximum of thirty grams per dose, so
all of them say six to twelve is a normal dose,
and changensays maximum thirty category. Benski and his team puts
this herb in the subcategory of verbs that drain fire
under the category of verbs that clear heat. So that
(14:50):
is the two there's the category in the subcategory. Changchense
it is in the heat clearing and fire purging herbs
subcategory under the heat clearing herbs category, and brand Wiseman
say it is a heat clearing fire draining medicinal under the.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Heat clearing medicinals category.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I don't think there's there's any any real differences between
these three classifications other than some some translational issues, but
other than that, they're all.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Saying pretty much the same thing.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
All three of our texts say it is bitter, sweet
and cold and enters the lung, stomach, and kidney channels.
And I just have a note here, This level of
agreement between our texts is quite rare.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I mean, this is it's unusual.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Especially with older This is an older herb, and especially
with older herbs, there's usually some different streams of thought
that go along with it. In this case, all three
of our texts are in complete alignment, both Benski and
his team in.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Chen and Chen.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So the original source for the CRB is the Schandan
bensau Jing or the Divine Husbandsman's Classical Material Medica in
the second century CE. So this if you're not familiar
with the Schndan bensau Jing, that is the oldest book
on single herbs in Chinese history that we have. There
may be older or books, but we don't have them intact.
(16:11):
This is relatively intact, and so when an herb is
in the snow bensau Jing, it usually means it's a
monkst it is the oldest of the herbs in Chinese medicine.
So what about this subcategory or this overall category of
herbs that clear heat. So let's talk about that, and
then we'll talk about the subcategory of the drained fire
(16:32):
in just a minute. So, according to benski at Al,
heat and traditional Chinese medicine refers not only to febrile
disorders or problems attributable to the invasion of pathogenic heat,
but also to any condition that presents with heat signs
try throat, red face, red eyes, dry stools, dark and scanty, urine,
yellow tongue, coating, rapid pulse, and a sensation of warmth
(16:55):
in the five centers, which include the soles of the feet,
palms of the hand.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And sternum.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
He can all can be found in either the exterior
or the interior. Exteri heat presents with fever, chills, headache, thirst,
moderate sweating, and a floating rapid pulse. Interior heat presents
with fever without chills, dry mounth, thirst, irritability, scanty and
dark urine, yellow tongue coating, constipation or diarrhea, and abdominal distension.
(17:25):
Herbs described in this category are used for treating interior heat.
In general, these herbs are cold in nature. Makes sense,
So that's the overall category of clear heat. Let's talk
about the subcategory of drained fire herbs that drain fire.
So Benski at all continues to discuss the sub subcategory
of herbs that train fire. Herbs that drain fire among
(17:45):
the coldest in the Materia medica. They're used for treating
high fever, irritability, thirst, and delirium associated with febrile disease
in the four levels see fun system of differentiation. These
symptoms generally correspond to the Chi level and in the
six stage the Ojing system to the young brightness stage.
(18:07):
Included in this group or herbs used for treating eye
problems due to wind heat as well as heat and
the liver, lungs, or stomach. All right, so that's an
overview of the categories involved. Let's talk about good quality germu.
So benskiadal says good quality consists of large rhizomes with
a compact and soft texture. The cross section is yellowish
(18:30):
white with a slightly greenish tinge Later, under the hitting
of additional product information, they say the best quality is
said to come from the Shieling region of Hove Province,
and the past, the only form of the serve on
the market was the unpeeled product known as harry ada
marina or mal germu. Recently, however, the form that has
(18:52):
been peeled before drying is preferred. In China, it is
known as naked animorna or guang germu or ana morena
flashed germu row. Because this is a relatively less stable
and is readily affected by humidity, which changes its color,
it is not are.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
The preferred product for export.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Chinese medicial identification and illustrator approach says germu are long strips,
slightly curved, slightly flat, occasionally branched externally, yellowish brown to brown,
with a hard and easily broken texture, a faint odor,
and a slightly sweet and bit and a bit bitter
taste which.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Is sticky when chewed.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Superior medicinal material is large, fat and hard with a
yellowish white fractured surface. Notable features include the gold wrapped
head or jinbal tole refers to mount jermu or hairy
germu with the outer skin intact, which has remnants of
light yellow leaf scars and stem scars at the apex.
(20:01):
Other features including an indented groove on one side and
densely arranged ring like nodes with dense and yellowish brown
colored remnants of leaf bases on the nodes. The other
side bulges out and is slightly wrinkled with indented or
protruding spot shaped scars.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Let's talk about Chinese medical actions.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So, according to Benski and his team's yourmu clears heat
and drains fire for high fever, irritability, thirst, and a
rapid flooding pulse, and patterns of heat from excess in
the lungs and stomach. Also for cough due to heat
and the lungs with expectoration of thick yellow sputum it
enriches the yin and moisten's dryness. For exhaustion or deficiency
(20:50):
of lung and kinney yin with such heat signs as
night sweats, steaming bone disorder, irritability, afternoon or low grade fevers,
heat in the five centers, and bleeding gums. Also for
such kidney heat signs as permatterrhea, nocturnal emissions, and a
normally elevated sex drive. It generates fluids and clears heat
(21:14):
for oral ulcers and inflammation due to yin deficiency, and
for wasting and thirsting disorder. Wasting thirsting disorder, it's usually
Chinese medicine will attribute that to like diabetes, and finally
ameliorates the dryness of tanifying or warming substances. For circumstances
when tanifying herbs such as the st Strikeli radix or
(21:35):
huang chi. Warming herbs such as cinemama, rambulus, grade jar
and aconiti, ratex, lateralis, preparata, gerb, fudza are used, but
there is concern that they are may not be too drying.
Sheense it clears heat, insedate's fire, nourishes yen of wasted stryness,
(21:57):
nourishes yen and clear's deficiency. Fire, generates fluids and quenches thirst,
and neutralizes unwonted effects of warm herbs. Brand and wise
men say it clears heat and drains fire and enriches
yin and moistens dryness. Chinese medicinal identification and illustrated approach
(22:18):
says it clears heat, drains fire and genders fluids and
moistens dryness and the defined farmer's divine. Farmers Material Medica
says it is non toxic, mainly treating wasting, wasting, thirst
and heat.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
In the center.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It eliminates evil chi in the treatment of puffy swelling
of the limbs, recipitates water supplements insufficiency.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And boosts the chi.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Preparations. Benski at All discusses nomenclature and several preparations for
this herb. A variety of names are used to emphasize
certain desirable qualities in the serbs, such as fat and
a marena phasier moo. Because the best quality irb is big,
fat and moist unprepared anim Marina has a powerful fire
(23:13):
draining action, so it is often used for conditions of
heat from excess in the lung and stomach with a
high fever and restlessness. Thirst and a large tidal bulse
is appropriate. In such from it is as white tiger
decoction or bionge, which is a classic decoction. Okay, so
different types. We have dry fried animalan air chownger moo.
(23:37):
The herb is dry fried over a medium flame until
slightly browned. The heavy bitter cooling qualities of that morena
readily injure the stomach and intestines and cause diarrhea. Fry
and reduces its cooling nature and moderates its fire draining effect.
Some fry it with wheat chaff to protect the digestion,
especially for those patients with both fire from deficiency and
(23:59):
spleen and stomach deficiency. Honting prepared adam raina amejure germu,
hunting prepared Ani marina or azoma germu aims to protect
the spleen and stomach by moderating its bitter, draining and
cooling nature, why adding sweetness to tonify the middle. This
(24:21):
form is best for those with damaged fluids and blood,
or those who are too weak to take strong bitter
cooling herbs. Salt fried Ani marainer are yon chow germu
slices of the herb briefly dry fried, then sprayed with
salt water, then dry fried again, or baked until dry.
(24:43):
The saltiness promotes its affinity for the kidneys and increases
its downward directing action.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Thus, salt fried.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Ana marina nourishes the yenn, moistens dryness, and cools and
drains ministerial fire. Vinegar fried animarina are su chow jermu
slices of enamorna which have been soaked in vinegar or
dry fried or baked until slightly brown, which focuses the
(25:13):
herb's actions.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
On the lungs. Origins of medicine the book Origins of
medicine and it looks like I need to.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Origins of medicine are the y Shwei Chi Yuan, which
was written in the Yuan dynasty which ran from twelve
seventy one to thirteen sixty eight CE. Notes to raise
to the head or to lead into its channels.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Prepare with vinegar.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
The ana marina then cools lung metal and drains fire
eat for example, e g. When lurking heat and the
lungs causes symptoms such as coughing or spinning up a
blood nose, bleeds, irritability from deficiency cough.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
And wheezing.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Wine fried animarina are joe chow jermu. Slices of the
herb are soaked in rice wine, then dry fried or
baked until somewhat browned. This has the effect of gutting
the herb's actions upward and lessens its cold draining qualities
Western uses. It appears as serb is primarily a Chinese herb.
(26:21):
The PDR for Herbal Medicines does have an entry for
the herb, but emphasizes its Chinese function, saying in China,
Germu is used for febrile conditions and inflammation, diabetes, dry cough,
bone fever quote quote unquote, bone fever, and general dehydration
and painful stole or streng uria. Strnguria is we often
(26:46):
we'll call it stringuary. It's basically trouble urinating and can
include urinary stones and things along those sides. It is
also a decoction for typhus, colet fever and tuberculosis, and
that's the whole thing that it talks about. So really
it really is emphasizing the Chinese aspects of the herb.
(27:09):
What this tells us is the fact that this is
a primarily Chinese irb. It's an important Chinese irve. By
the wise, it probably wouldn't be in the PDR for
Verbal Medicines. The BDR for Verbal Medicine does not have
a ton of Chinese irves. It does have some major
Chinese herbs, but that's about it. So this makes it
a pretty major Chinese herb, and the fact that it
doesn't really have a lot of Western uses indicates that
(27:29):
it's primarily Chinese in origin and use. Okay, so let's
talk about commentary on this. Benski at All as Usual
has an excellent commentary on the herb. Quote bitter, sweet, cold,
and moistening and a marina raizoma or jermu primarily acts
(27:50):
through the lung, stomach, and kidney channels. Bitter and cold
it drains fire, while it's sweet, cold and moistening qualities
and rich the yin and moisten. What is dry it
is clearing of moistening quality is the principal advantage of germu.
The upper burner it clears lung heat, and the middle
burner it cools the stomach, and a lower burner it
(28:13):
drains ministerial fire while also enriching the yin of the kidneys, lungs,
and stomach. Therefore, it can be used in situations of
both excess and deficiency when heat has dried the y
in fluids such as wasting and thirsting disorder. The Divine
(28:33):
Husbandsman's classic material medica that's the the ben Saud oh man,
I totally blanked on it, and I have it right here,
and I can't read the training. It's schand On ben
saw Jing there we go I got shand On Bensajin
explains that jermu governs wasting and thirsting. Heat in the
middle expels pathogenic chi, and by driving water downward, treats
(28:56):
floating the dima of the limbs. It tonifies insofficiency and
benefits the chi. And in parentheses it says he in
the middle refers to stomach yan deficiency. The pathogenic chi
that germu expels is pathogenic heat that is entered of
the body, particularly at the young brightness stage. This herb
(29:18):
drives water downward because it's cold. Moistening qualities drain the spleen.
Grand Material The Grand Materia of Medica, which is an
important book on the Bensu Goongmu written in fifteen ninety,
explains why jermu can act on both the lungs and
(29:40):
on the kidneys. When the kidney suffered dryness, acrid substances
should be bibed to moisten them. When the lung suffered
rebellion upward, bitter substances should be imbibed.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
To drain them. Jurmu is acrid, bitter and cold, so
below in moisten's kidney dryness and enrich jin above it
clears lung metal and drains fire. It acts at the chi.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Level of both channels to lead into the channel above.
Fry with wine, then bake it dry to move it
downward soaked in salt water, then bake.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That refers to some of the preparations we just mentioned.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
In an interesting further comment, leisure Schen notes that a
strangliratics swang chi acts at the blood level of the kidneys,
which is why the two herbs should be used together.
Jiang Chi Chun points out that jermu is not intrinsically
extremely cold, nor is it very bitter. He tasted and
(30:45):
compared germu with an equal amount of straggleiratics swang chi
and found little perceptible difference in temperature sensations. Then he
boiled germu and glycerosary radix consur licorice together and found
the result to be mainly sweet. Thus we know that
germu is neither extremely cold nor extremely bitter. However, it
(31:10):
does have copious fluid with which to enrich yin.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Some say that.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Germu can only cool heat as unable to enrich yin.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
This is viewing this is viewing germu.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Too Superficially, when I treat conditions of heat from excess
with a rapid pulse, I always use sheermu formulas with
which use the strike rate x wang chi totonifi Chi
can be too hot for some patients. Use germu as
a supporting herb. Its fluids, however, lubricate the intestines, and
(31:42):
so it should not be used if the stools are loose.
Chen and Chen also have some commentary on this herb
depending on the other herbs with which it is combined.
Germu has dual functions to clear excess or deficiency heat.
Is used often because it nourishes fluids and clears heat simultaneously. Furthermore,
(32:06):
germu is often preferred over yin tonics, which are hard
to digest and may cause damnness if not prescribed carefully.
All right, let's talk about some combinations. Benscadal combines this
orb with three others. First of these is Coptis raisoma
or huang leon. Both of these herbs are bitter and cold,
(32:30):
and both clear stomach heat and direct fired downward. However,
Coptus raisoma huang leon is drying by nature, and while
good for eliminating damness, it readily harms the yin. On
the other hand, germu is moistening and nourishes the yen
while cooling heat. Together, they act strongly to clear stomach
(32:51):
heat and direct fired downward, while concurrently drying damness without harming.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
The normal yin fluids.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
This pair is most often used for symptoms of blazing
stomach fire, such as voracious hunger, continual thirst, dry stools,
a dry yellow tongue coating, and a slippery rapid pulse.
Jottings from repeated celebration haul are chong qing Tong sweet
bee rid In eighteen ten, a text passed down through
(33:25):
the family of the celebrated Wang mung Ying which focuses
on the implications of the yin deficiency, notes that great
predominance of stomach heat will cause the yend to be
insufficient in harmonizing the yong fluids. Both yin and yang
will dry, leading to a parched inability to break down foods.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
This pair can reduce.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
The predominance of stomach heat and prevent further injury to
the stomach fluids. The other combinations with gypsum fibrosum or
shal just fibrosum Suregal is acrid, sweet and very cooling.
It convents muscle layer heat and cool stomach fire, and
(34:10):
while its heaviness directs fired downward, its acrid flavor allows
it to reach the exterior. Thus it addresses both the
interior and exter of the body. Jurmou is bitter and cold.
Its bitterness directs fired downward, while its moistening quality resolves dryness.
Together they have a powerful ability to cool heat in
(34:32):
the young brightness stomach while protecting the stomach fluids that
this heat would injury injure. The associated symptoms are high fever,
profuse sweating, insatiable thirst, large and strong pulse, red face,
and aversion to heat to heat. At this time where
(34:54):
the pathogenic heat widely spread throughout the body, not concentrated
in the intestines, treatment which it hempstick clear heat through
the intestines will not be effective.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Nor will the use of bitter cooling herbs.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Such as Coptus rhizomea huang wayan our scutal area rate
ex huang qin, which will further damage the fluids. The
best approach is to use acrid cold flavors combined with
bitter cold moistening qualities. Gypsum, fibrosium, suggo and jermu are
ideal for this purpose, combining to release heat and eliminate
(35:28):
irritability as in white tiger decoction by who Tong. So
that's the second time we've heard this by who Tong
being brought up, and it is an important verbal formula
which at some point, if I.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Haven't done, we'll talk about.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Chen and Chen have some interesting comments about the combination
of gypsum, fibrosim, suregal germu and sugau. Gypsum fibrosum are
often used synergistically to sedate fire and prevent the loss
of Yin sweet cold Jermu clears heat, generates fluids, and
moistens dryness. It clears heat in all three jows. Those
(36:08):
are the three burners we've talked about those in the past,
clearing lung heat in the upper jow, sedating stomach fire
in the middle jow, and clearing deficiency fire of the
kidney in.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
The lower jow.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Very cold and thermal thermal nature sugoo enters the chi
energy level as best in clearing excess heat in the
lung and stomach. It is the herb of choice when
clearing heat from the chi level manifesting the symptoms of
high fever, extreme thirst, with preference for cold drinks, profuse sweating,
(36:42):
and a forceful rapid pulse. Together, Germu and sugow sedate
fire without draining it.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
And finally, our third.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Combination is sakau SalCo frucitus or salguoal. The acro flavor
of salkol. Salguo has a floating dispersing quality. Whilst nature
is warm and strongly drying, Germu is bitter and cold
is best a cooling heat and draining fire. Salcal fructus
(37:21):
salguo can scour away flam damness, awaken the spleen young,
and overcome the yin natured accumulation of turbid dampness. Germu
treats clumped heat, drains stomach fire, and alleviates the irritability
associated with heat from constrained pathogens in the interior. Each
(37:45):
of these herbs contributes opposite qualities to a combination which
regulates cold and heat, harmonizes the exterior and interior, and
is thus ideal for treating malarial disorders when the pathology
includes greater yen, turbid damas is fuming upward with irritability,
heat and profuse sweating. As explained in the Grand Materia Medica, Salkhol,
(38:10):
Fructus salguo, and germu used together treating miasmic malarial disorder
with chills and fever. As there's one yin herb and
one young herb, there is no problem of imbalance or
Sko Salkho Fructus salguol treats the cold that would occur
(38:31):
if just greater yen prevailed, while Jermu treats the fire
that would occur if just young brightness prevailed. So it's
a great combination. We see this a lot, by the way,
in certain combinations opposites, so the the ultimate effect is
regulatory that it's a really great way to combine herbs.
(38:52):
And that's our combinations. Let's step into comparisons of this
erb with other herbs, and actually Benski only combines us
with one other, which we've just mentioned, which is just
some fibrosum suregal.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
So the suregal.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
You can see that the combination of sugal and germou
is a very important combination, even though it wasn't one
of the combinations that we talked about. Jermu and huang
chi is also an important combination, but it wasn't brought
up in the combinations that I talked about, but it
was brought up elsewhere, so it's still an important combination.
(39:28):
So comparison, so let's compare this herb with suregal. Both
medicinals cool the lungs in stomach and both clear heat
from the young brightness chi level. This pair is therefore
appropriate for treating the irritability, thirst and fever, and the large,
strong pulse that characterize this condition. They are often combined
in the treatment of lung and stomach heat, leading to
(39:49):
such symptoms as thirst or cough. There are, however, significant
differences between them. Guermu primarily clears heat and moistens Besides
it's cooling the lungs, also cools the kidneys and nourishes
the yin owing to its acrid flavor. Gypsum fibrosum or
(40:10):
sugo primarily clears heat and disperses, which extends its effect
to the exterior. Its heavy property enables.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
It to reach the interior.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Gypsum fibrosium suregal protects the fluids by draining fire, while
jermou benefits the yin by directly generating fluids. So this
is sort of again combination, but this is a combination
of likes. You know, we have combinations of kind of opposites,
and here we have combinations of similar herbs that are
(40:42):
doing similar things to really amp up the effects that it's.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Trying to go for contents.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
According to Benski and his team, the main constituents of
germu or sapanines, flabinoids, lignanes, polysaccharides, alkaloids, and organic acids.
Chu Chen discuss a few specific By the way, Bensky
goes into a lot of specifics under these categories. So
I didn't get into because we're gonna doing that elsewhere
(41:13):
as well. To discussed a few specific components. Uh timo
saponin man different different different uh sarsa sarson sar sagin
all right, marcogen in uh I refuse to not put
(41:35):
these in. I'm going to try and get through each
of these every time. Uh neo neo guy gido ginin,
uh anna marns a b c D.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
So whatever you.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
See one of the chemicals that seems similar to the
latinum that is in this case Anna Marns in the
cases probably pretty exclusively in this in this particular herb.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Uh Leo at all.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Their team, which is a review Urocle says two hundred
and sixty nine compounds have been identified from anamorina as photoloids,
including steroidal sepponents, flavonoids, phenyl propenoids, alkaloids, steroids, organic acids, polysaccharides, benzophenones,
and other ingredients. So, in other words, as most of ours,
(42:23):
lots of stuff. So let's talk about the science beyond this,
So corneachen Chen. The pharmacological effects of germu include being
anti diabetic, antipyretic, antibiotic, anti neoplastic, and colon gogic. Remember
cold gogic induces the flow of bile. I mentioned that earlier. Again,
(42:44):
most of these were not in humans. But what's nice
about chen Chen's book is they also talk about clinical trials.
So here's they discussed two positive clinical studies. One discussed
the use of formula containing in treating prossatic hypertrophy. When
then any equals eighty, so eighty subjects. So again we're looking.
(43:07):
We want at least thirty to forty subjects in a study,
because then that allows us to apply population statistics to it.
Anything less than that we cannot make any determinations on
a population based on that study, and above that we
can start to do that. Any equals to eighty is
still relatively small, but is definitely statistically valid. And the
(43:31):
other using a different formula containing Germu to treat acute rheumatism.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
This one had an end of fifty six.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Again, the reason why I keep emphasizing these ends, it's
not just this statistical attitude to it, but it also
is a determination of the power of the city, how
strong the study is, so it's important to know how
many people, how many subjects there were in a given study.
So these were both statistically valid. What I don't think
about them is it's not about Germu. It's about the
(43:58):
formula that Germu was part of, and so take it
with a grain of salt. We know that German is useful,
but this doesn't tell us individually how useful Germu is.
But then again, in Chinese medicine, we use most of
ours in formulas, and so you know, the formulas become
useful to look at as well, Leo ed Adel says
(44:21):
studies have shown that the extracts and compounds from mannerand
as filoides have extensive pharmacological activities such as nervous system activity,
anti tumor, anti inflammatory, anti diabetic, anti osteoporotic, anti allergic,
anti platelet aggregation, antimicrobial, anti viral, anti aging.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Hair growth, promoting and preventing cell damage, etc.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
So lots of different stuff according to that one particular paper.
Another review by one at All from twenty fourteen says
crude extracts and pure compounds for man rain as floaties
exhibited significant pharmacological effects on the nervous system and the
blood system. They also showed valuable bioactivities such as anti tumor, antioxidation, antimicrobial, antivirus,
(45:14):
anti inflammation, anti osteoporosis, anti skin aging damage, as well
as other activities. So both of these last two were
review articles. I tend to prefer review review articles. Review articles,
especially meta reviews, are going to be much stronger evidence
(45:37):
on a given herb than individual trials will be, So
I don't try not to get in these in these episodes,
try not to get bogged down in a lot of trials.
I'd rather look at review articles these Both of these
were not the strongest review articles. They were not meta
analyses or actually systematic reviews.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
But I did give us some over use of GERMU.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
So so let's talk about drug herb interactions here. So
Chen and Chen say, it is prudent to and and
Chang Chen, by the way, should you should know one
of there's brother and sister uh John Chen and Tina Chen.
John Chen is a pharmacologist UH by training.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
As well as UH.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
He has a Chinese medical background as well. I think
he has a master's. I don't know if he's gotten
his doctor and actupuncturing a medicine or not. I wouldn't
be surprised if he asks. But he's a pharmacologist, so
he knows his stuff when it comes to these drug
of interactions. So Changchen say, it is proven to use
JERMU with caution with insulin, sulfonol, yureas and other anti
(46:46):
diabetic medications, so no interaction has been documented. The combination
of anti diabetic herbs and drugs may have a synergistic
effect leading to hypoglycemia. So this this is what we
call an expert opinion.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
It does not have.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
When you look at evidence based medicine, it is lowest
level of evidence.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
It's level D evidence. So take it with a grain.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Of salt when it comes to expert opinions, and I
definitely considered doctor Chad an expert in this. In this field,
when it comes to expert opinions, it just means there's
no evidence behind it. It doesn't mean that it won't happen.
It's not very important to pay attention to. But as
(47:33):
far as evidence based medicine levels are concerned, it's the
lowest level of evidence. That animal research because it's not
in humans, and bench research because again it's not in humans,
are the lowest level of evidence. So take it with
a grain of salt. Something to be aware of. But
until I see more evidence, I'm not sure. I'm super
worried about this strunger of interaction. A literature search did
(47:55):
find some potential interactions between constituents of and formulas containing
German and various arcroone p for fifty issymes or peak
glac aprotein. The sarcroone pter for fifty and peak glaco
proteins are what we use is risk factors for drug
of interactions. So any interactions with either of those are
going to increase the risk of a drug of interaction.
But none of these were clinical or specific to the
(48:18):
whole herb. So when you're looking at formulas, is it
just because a formula caused an interaction doesn't mean that
germu or anything to do with germu was the reason
why there was an interaction. So I don't consider that
evidence of an interaction between germu and drugs or sarcroone
(48:39):
P fifty peak glacoprotein.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
And then.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Looking at the constituents of germu, I hate looking at
that and going Okay, here's a drug of interaction.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
We're looking at constituents.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
And rbs because when you look at an individual constituent
alone versus the overall herb. In an herb, there may
be constituents that do increase in interaction with specific chychroomee
pary for fifty, but there may be another constitution where
that decreases a chance of an interaction with the zychrome
P for fifty. And then when they're doing research on
a specific target, specific constituent, they're usually looking at quantities
(49:19):
of that individual consistent that component that you.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Would never get if you were using.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
The herb properly as a whole, and so I don't
consider interactions with constituents to be of a huge risk
for the herb overall. So really what I want to
see are studies that look at the herb and then
determine the whole herb all the constituents. It can be
an extract of that herb, just concentrated constituents, but it
(49:46):
has to have all the constituents of that herb and
then see if there's any interactions between these. And there
was no evidence that I found that showed that first
Germo okay, and that my assessment that there isn't a
whole bunch of worry here on Drugger of interactions, which,
(50:06):
by the way, is what that book we were talking
about earlier, the Integrated Pharmacology book talks about a lot.
So I'm definitely up there in the expert category. And
when it comes to Drugger of interactions on this stuff,
I'm not particularly worried about TURMIAU and Drugger of interactions.
And to back that up, the American Herbal Product Association's
Botanical Safety Handbook, which is an excellent resource, says this
(50:27):
herb is interaction class A herbs for which no clinically
relevant interactions are expected, and that's where I would sit
absolutely with this particular herb research I've.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Done on it.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Okay, let's talk about some concerns about this herb. Benski
and his team note several concerns with turmou. Under the
heading of cautions and contraindications, they say contraindicated in cases
of cold from deficiency of the spleen and stomach.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Or diarrhea.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Under the heading of traditional contraindications, they say a passage
and harm and benefit in the material Medica at the
Bensu highly in eighteen ninety three observes germu injures the
stomach and lubricates the intestines, giving people diarrhea is forbidden
for anyone, which is sort of such as impotence coupled
(51:20):
with quick arousal and quick ejaculation. We expleen inability to
digest food, stomach deficiency with no thought of eating, or
kidney deficiency diarrhea. This passion goes on to quote Shoeshoe Wey,
who reminds us that germu is bitter and cold and
(51:41):
thus shares the qualities of autumn and winter, which are
inappropriate for long term toonification, and people ignore these aspects
and focus on its ability.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
To enrich the yen. So this is not a nerve
that should be used to enrich yin long term.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
More. I think of it more to protect yin as
you're draining fire more than anything else. It protects more
than enriches. Chen and Chen have some concerns as well.
Cold in nature, germu is contradnicated in patients with diarrhea, sleen,
or stomach deficiencies or kidney deficiency. Brandon Wiseman warns because
(52:23):
germu is a cold, moistening substance that lubricates the intestines,
it is inappropriate for patterns of sleen vacuity with sloppy stool,
and this is an interest in. The American Herbal Products
Associations Botanical Safety Handbook says this is in safety Class
two D states other specific use restrictions as noted, and
the book discusses two issues, a contraindication for people with
(52:46):
diarrhea and a concern about glucose regulation and combining with
diabetic drugs, which we've just mentioned about both of those.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
So I think that's well covered.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
And that does it for today's herb. Today we start
with our discussion. Uh. We started our discussion with another
Chinese herbal legend. Then we looked at another single Chinese
herb germu an a marine riizomea or and a marine riizome.
This herb is in the Chinese medical subcuty of herbs
(53:19):
that train fire. It is an interesting important herb for
treating heat and yin deficiency and it appears to be
quite safe with the possible exception of patients with diabetes
or diarrhea. With that, we conclude another exploration into the
gui center of a very useful Chinese herb.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
In two weeks we will.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Be looking at another Chinese erbal formula of rend sheen
bidy Soon let me get those toe marks corn shn
by du soon our genzen powder to overcome pathogenic influences.
It is under the subcounty of promulas that released the
exterior disorders with interior deficient and see and it's useful
for treating external attacks for colds with underlying deficiency.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
We will do We will be doing our deep dive.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Into this formula A and as usual we will look
at something a little different.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Please join us as.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
We don our space suits do a space walk and
enter the unexplored space of medicinal herbs in our next
exciting episode. Thank you very much, appreciate you listening to
another one of our episodes. If you like this podcast,
please do us a huge favorite subscribe in your favorite
podcast app. We appreciate it and thank you very much,
(54:38):
and don't forget that amazing Continue ed continuing education deal
at www dot Integrative Medicine Council Council dot org, slash CEU.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
S one CEUs one the number one.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
You'll always get in touch with me at doctor Greg
at sperbserbs dot com or at our website www dot
sperbserbs dot com. And I just want to say, we
just put up all our episodes up to date on YouTube,
so you can find look for Sperbs Herbs on YouTube
and you can have access to all of them. Right now,
(55:17):
there's no videos with them. They just have a standard
sort of background video. It's all auditory. But we are
in the process of getting our videos up on each
of these as well, so that'll be coming up in
the next few months probably, so aw's we get that,
and so.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
We have them all up on YouTube, so you can
take a look at them.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Thank you, okay, And as usual we have bibliography. These
tend to be a little bit shorter because I have
a lot of information in my textbooks, so a little
bit shorter they are than usual.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
There we go, Thank.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
You very much, spurs Or.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
The proceeding was presented by doctor Greg Spermer.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
We would like to thank Janelle for all our support
and everybody else who contributed to this program.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
Give him the name Roger Campbell mm HM
That Angelica Sperb.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hello and welcome to episode ninety three of Sperbs Herbs.
Today's herb is going to be sure MoU ani morena
rhizoma or ani morena riisome.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
So without further ado.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Let's get into it all right, Just there we go.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay today's episode.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
In this episode, we will be exploring another interesting and
common Chinese herb, sure MoU ana marina raizoma or ani
morena riisome. This herb is in the Chinese medical subcategory
of herbs that are the drain fire category under the
category of herbs that clear heat is commonly used herb
(00:58):
for cooling heat while also generating.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yin in fluids to moisten dryness.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
And as usual, we will be exploring something a little different.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
In this case, we'll be discussing another Chinese orble legend
about our herb. Please join us for this journey to
the center of Irby goodness. Before we get into that,
just want to say about an amazing deal that we're doing.
We are starting an amazing special for our courses if
you use them for continuing education, professional development activities, or
(01:32):
just for your own edification. We are offering fifty hours
of courses for an unbelievable price.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Normally this would cost seven hundred and fifty dollars. However,
with the special code fifty CEUs, this is going that's
the number five is the five zero CEUs. This is
going to be only three dollars three hundred and twenty
five three dollars three hundred and twenty five dollars or
only six dollars and fifty cents per hour plus on
(02:03):
top of that. In addition too you can get a
free signed copy of one of my books. Just pay
for shipping and handling. This is a free copy of
Integrative Pharmacology combining modern pharmacology with.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
An integrative medicine.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
That has a seventy five dollars book for free or
playing the game A step by step approach to accepting
insurance as an acupuncturist, and that's a that's a not
a seventy five dollars book, but it's still a good book.
I think it's thirty or thirty five dollars book, so
it's still a good book. Either of those for free.
Whatever you want to do, and all you need to
(02:36):
do is go to the web page www. Dot Integrative
Medicine Council dot org. That's Integrated Medicine Council Council dot org.
So slash CEUs one. That's CEUs one number one for
this amazing deal.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So let's do an herbal legend.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So this is from Chinese Herbal Legends, fifty stories for
understanding Chinese herbs.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
I love this little book. I got it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I was teaching at the school and the representative from
this from this book company came out and he had
this small little book. I can for those of you
on online, I can show it. She has a small
little book that has fifty herbs, which you think would
be a lot, but I've only come across out of
ninety three episodes, I think I've only used it five
to ten times. So it's poort nerbs, but not all
(03:28):
the important herbs. Great little book.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I love it, and it just adds a nice little
spark to the herbs.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
So I'm gonna go into I'm gonna read one of
the herbal legends that is in there about the herb ture.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Let me get into my voice'es mode.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Here, long long ago, there was an old woman who
had no children. She had gathered a medicinal herbs since
she was young, but because she always gave them to
people without charging, she had not saved money.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
When she was old and weak and could no.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Longer climb the mountain to gather medicinal herbs, she had
to beg from village to village. She worried all day,
not because of her bitter life, but because she could
not pass on her skills of recognizing medicinal herbs. And
once she died, who else could gather herbal medicine for
the people. So the old woman was determined to look
(04:22):
for an honest man to whom to pass on her skills.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
She said to all she met.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Whoever takes me as his mother, I will tell him
how to recognize medicinal herbs. The son of a rich
family heard this and thought, if I could cure disease,
won't it be another way to fawn on high officials. Therefore,
he invited the old woman to join his family. Old lady,
(04:48):
I am willing to be your son. Please tell me
what medicinal herbs can cure disease.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
He said. The ol and gave the rich son a
quick look and asked, why are you in such a hurry.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
First, I will see how you treat me. The rich
son had the old woman live in a good house
and gave her new clothes and served her good food.
But after ten days, when the rich son saw that
the old woman didn't speak of medicinal herbs, he could
no longer restrain himself. Mother, you should tell me how
to recognize medicinal herbs.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It's still too early. How long must I wait? About?
Ten years? What? The rich son was angry? I have
to provide you with food for ten years. Humph, Go
away and don't cheat cheat me any longer.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Sneering, the old woman put her original clothes back on
and unhurriedly left the rich son's home. Again, she begged
and shouted on the street as before. One day a
merchant hurt her as he thought that he could make
a lot of money by selling medicine. Called to the
old woman at once. I'm willing to take you as
(06:03):
my mother, he said. So then the old woman lived
in the merchant's house after the merchant. After the merchant
had served her for one month, you could no longer
keep calm. Can you really recognize herbal medicine? He asked, certainly,
Please tell me teach me how to do it. It's not
yet the proper time. How long should I wait until
(06:26):
I die?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Oh? The merchant shook all over with anger. You devil woman?
Do you think I'm a monkey? Returned to begging. It's
you who invited me. Humph. I was blind. Apparently I
like that word. Humph.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
After the old woman was driven out of the merchant's house,
she went on begging and groaning. Whoever takes me as
his mother, I will tell him how to recognize medicinal herbs,
she muttered. Days pasted. People thought she was mad, and
no one spoke to her. One winter, when the old
woman had arrived in a small village, she fell down
(07:03):
before a gate. The master of this family was.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
A boatman, and he helped the old woman into his house.
Old lady, what is wrong with you? Are you hurt?
Are you ill? He asked?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
No, I'm not ill, I'm hungry. Immediately, the boatman asked
his wife to cook a pot of soup and brought
it to her.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
We have no good food at home.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Please have this while it's hot. After the old woman ate,
she began to feel warm and wanted to go, where
are you going on such a cold day? Asked the
boatman and his wife. Oh, the old woman heaved a
deep sigh. I am so poor that I have to beg.
On hearing this, both the boatman and his wife felt
(07:47):
sympathy for her. You are so old and it's not
easy for you to beg. You don't mind our poverties.
Please stay with us, they told her. The old woman
didn't refuse, and she stayed. Time flew, spring came, and
the flowers began to blossom. How can I always eat
(08:10):
food in your house? Please let me go on, said
the old woman. You have no children and we have
no parents. Isn't it a good thing that we lived
together as a family, asked the boatman.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
To tell you the truth.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Previously, I gathered medicinal herbs. I knew many kinds which
could cure diseases and save people's lives. I had wanted
to adopt a son so I could pass on my skills,
But now I am too old and muddled to recognize
any of those herbs. Now you are taking care of me,
but I have no way to repay you, said the
old woman. We are all poor people. I don't need
(08:45):
to be repaid. As long as we have foujiat, you
won't be hungry. Please don't go out begging, said the boatman.
All right, I will take this place as my home
and you as my son. From that time on, the
boatman and his wife regarded the old woman.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
As their own mother. The old woman helped them take
care of the children and to do some housework. They
loved the old woman too.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Because she didn't want the old woman to be too
hot or too cold. Bowman's wife wouldn't let her start
fires in June or wash clothes in December. The old
woman lived there comfortably for three years. When summer came
that third year, she.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Was already eighty years old.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
My son, I want to climb up the mountain to
look around, she said.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
One day. Mother, you are too old. You will get tired.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I feel bored, so I want to have a look
at the mountain scenery.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Let me carry you there on my back.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
When the bowman carried the old woman up the mountain
on his back, sometimes she wanted to go east and
then west, up the slope and down the valley. The
bowman became very tired, and he sweated a lot, But
instead of getting upset, he joked.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
To make her happy.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
When they came to a slope or wild grass was growing,
the old woman asked the boatman to stop. She got down,
sat on a stone and pointed at a bundle of
grass with striped leaves and white flowers with purple stripes.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Go dig it up, she said.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
The bowman went there and dug out it until a
yellowish brown root appeared.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Mother, what is this, he asked.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
This is a medicinal herb. It's root kink your lung, heat, coughing, consumption, fever,
and so on. It's very useful, my son. I think
you know why I didn't teach you how to recognize
it before. After thinking a while, the boatman said, you
must have wanted to find an honest man. To him
you could pass on your skills. You were afraid that
(10:41):
if a batman ler them, he would only make a
pile of money and cheat people. I have searched for
such a man for many years, but found no one.
My son, you really understand what I think. So I
named this medicinal herb jermu for knowing one's mind. There
so the old woman with a smile, and she taught
(11:03):
the boman to recognize many other medicinal herbs.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
He began to gather them, and he always.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Remembered her words and cured poor people's diseases as the
old woman had done. And that is the herbal legend
around Shermu. And with that, amuse Boush, let's discuss our
herb proper. So today we're going to be talking about
your mumu.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Again, my Chinese.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I've had several years of Chinese, but it's not the
My pronunciation is the best, so please forgive me uh.
In Latin, Santa Marina raizoma and then it's just Ana
raina rhizome. There's not a bunch of difference between the
common name and the and the Latin name. It's from
the family Liliassier. Standard species is Ana marina asphilodes BG periods,
(11:54):
So BG again remember refers to the biologist who first
classified it. The medicinal part is the rhizome. Remember, the
rhizome are the the parts coming off of the root,
the sort of strangling parts coming.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Off the route. In English, it means know about mother.
That's what Germu stands for.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Lee ser Jen, who's a very famous, very famous herbalist,
says alongside the main route, the accessory roots have the
appearance of insect larvae. Larva crawling toward their mother. Larvae
are called chur and this gradually became jur hen Germu
(12:37):
about mother.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
So that's where the words come from. Where the name
comes from, I love.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And when they give an explanation of where the name
of these come from other names, there's lots of other
Chinese names, Maljermu, juan, Jermu, Jermu, row jan Jermu, liam Mu,
swan beyond zi, sal chermu or egg mother, Yaleao wild
water weed, de shn earth, ginsing, chwey shen water gen
(13:08):
sing hue jun water dredger, pull MoU goods matrix, and
tmu cicada mother. And in Japanese it's churmo and it
created its gmo and I don't pounce. Japanese are creand
so that's just my best stab at them. So let's
talk about that lily asse family just for a bit
before we get in worn into the herb. This is
(13:31):
the lily family and contains about fifteen genera and six
hundred and ten species of flowering plants. These include lilies
and tulips. Common characteristics include large flowers with parts arranged
in threes with six colored or patterned pedaloid teepoles. Tepol
is one of the hour points of the flower. The
term is used when these parts cannot be classified as
(13:54):
either sepoles or petals, so that is a pedaloid teepole,
undifferent shaded petals and sepals arranged in.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Two whorls that swirls.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Six stamins stamens and a superior ovary. Most species are
grown from bulbs, although some have rhizomes and many liliasse
are important ornamental plants. All three of our texts agree
on the dosage of six to twelve.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Grams per day.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
That's unusual that they perfectly agree. Chang Shend does add
there as a maximum of thirty grams per dose, so
all of them say six to twelve is a normal dose,
and changensays maximum thirty category. Benski and his team puts
this herb in the subcategory of verbs that drain fire
under the category of verbs that clear heat. So that
(14:50):
is the two there's the category in the subcategory. Changchense
it is in the heat clearing and fire purging herbs
subcategory under the heat clearing herbs category, and brand Wiseman
say it is a heat clearing fire draining medicinal under the.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Heat clearing medicinals category.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I don't think there's there's any any real differences between
these three classifications other than some some translational issues, but
other than that, they're all.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Saying pretty much the same thing.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
All three of our texts say it is bitter, sweet
and cold and enters the lung, stomach, and kidney channels.
And I just have a note here, This level of
agreement between our texts is quite rare.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
I mean, this is it's unusual.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Especially with older This is an older herb, and especially
with older herbs, there's usually some different streams of thought
that go along with it. In this case, all three
of our texts are in complete alignment, both Benski and
his team in.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Chen and Chen.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So the original source for the CRB is the Schandan
bensau Jing or the Divine Husbandsman's Classical Material Medica in
the second century CE. So this if you're not familiar
with the Schndan bensau Jing, that is the oldest book
on single herbs in Chinese history that we have. There
may be older or books, but we don't have them intact.
(16:11):
This is relatively intact, and so when an herb is
in the snow bensau Jing, it usually means it's a
monkst it is the oldest of the herbs in Chinese medicine.
So what about this subcategory or this overall category of
herbs that clear heat. So let's talk about that, and
then we'll talk about the subcategory of the drained fire
(16:32):
in just a minute. So, according to benski at Al,
heat and traditional Chinese medicine refers not only to febrile
disorders or problems attributable to the invasion of pathogenic heat,
but also to any condition that presents with heat signs
try throat, red face, red eyes, dry stools, dark and scanty, urine,
yellow tongue, coating, rapid pulse, and a sensation of warmth
(16:55):
in the five centers, which include the soles of the feet,
palms of the hand.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And sternum.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
He can all can be found in either the exterior
or the interior. Exteri heat presents with fever, chills, headache, thirst,
moderate sweating, and a floating rapid pulse. Interior heat presents
with fever without chills, dry mounth, thirst, irritability, scanty and
dark urine, yellow tongue coating, constipation or diarrhea, and abdominal distension.
(17:25):
Herbs described in this category are used for treating interior heat.
In general, these herbs are cold in nature. Makes sense,
So that's the overall category of clear heat. Let's talk
about the subcategory of drained fire herbs that drain fire.
So Benski at all continues to discuss the sub subcategory
of herbs that train fire. Herbs that drain fire among
(17:45):
the coldest in the Materia medica. They're used for treating
high fever, irritability, thirst, and delirium associated with febrile disease
in the four levels see fun system of differentiation. These
symptoms generally correspond to the Chi level and in the
six stage the Ojing system to the young brightness stage.
(18:07):
Included in this group or herbs used for treating eye
problems due to wind heat as well as heat and
the liver, lungs, or stomach. All right, so that's an
overview of the categories involved. Let's talk about good quality germu.
So benskiadal says good quality consists of large rhizomes with
a compact and soft texture. The cross section is yellowish
(18:30):
white with a slightly greenish tinge Later, under the hitting
of additional product information, they say the best quality is
said to come from the Shieling region of Hove Province,
and the past, the only form of the serve on
the market was the unpeeled product known as harry ada
marina or mal germu. Recently, however, the form that has
(18:52):
been peeled before drying is preferred. In China, it is
known as naked animorna or guang germu or ana morena
flashed germu row. Because this is a relatively less stable
and is readily affected by humidity, which changes its color,
it is not are.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
The preferred product for export.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Chinese medicial identification and illustrator approach says germu are long strips,
slightly curved, slightly flat, occasionally branched externally, yellowish brown to brown,
with a hard and easily broken texture, a faint odor,
and a slightly sweet and bit and a bit bitter
taste which.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Is sticky when chewed.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Superior medicinal material is large, fat and hard with a
yellowish white fractured surface. Notable features include the gold wrapped
head or jinbal tole refers to mount jermu or hairy
germu with the outer skin intact, which has remnants of
light yellow leaf scars and stem scars at the apex.
(20:01):
Other features including an indented groove on one side and
densely arranged ring like nodes with dense and yellowish brown
colored remnants of leaf bases on the nodes. The other
side bulges out and is slightly wrinkled with indented or
protruding spot shaped scars.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Let's talk about Chinese medical actions.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So, according to Benski and his team's yourmu clears heat
and drains fire for high fever, irritability, thirst, and a
rapid flooding pulse, and patterns of heat from excess in
the lungs and stomach. Also for cough due to heat
and the lungs with expectoration of thick yellow sputum it
enriches the yin and moisten's dryness. For exhaustion or deficiency
(20:50):
of lung and kinney yin with such heat signs as
night sweats, steaming bone disorder, irritability, afternoon or low grade fevers,
heat in the five centers, and bleeding gums. Also for
such kidney heat signs as permatterrhea, nocturnal emissions, and a
normally elevated sex drive. It generates fluids and clears heat
(21:14):
for oral ulcers and inflammation due to yin deficiency, and
for wasting and thirsting disorder. Wasting thirsting disorder, it's usually
Chinese medicine will attribute that to like diabetes, and finally
ameliorates the dryness of tanifying or warming substances. For circumstances
when tanifying herbs such as the st Strikeli radix or
(21:35):
huang chi. Warming herbs such as cinemama, rambulus, grade jar
and aconiti, ratex, lateralis, preparata, gerb, fudza are used, but
there is concern that they are may not be too drying.
Sheense it clears heat, insedate's fire, nourishes yen of wasted stryness,
(21:57):
nourishes yen and clear's deficiency. Fire, generates fluids and quenches thirst,
and neutralizes unwonted effects of warm herbs. Brand and wise
men say it clears heat and drains fire and enriches
yin and moistens dryness. Chinese medicinal identification and illustrated approach
(22:18):
says it clears heat, drains fire and genders fluids and
moistens dryness and the defined farmer's divine. Farmers Material Medica
says it is non toxic, mainly treating wasting, wasting, thirst
and heat.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
In the center.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
It eliminates evil chi in the treatment of puffy swelling
of the limbs, recipitates water supplements insufficiency.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And boosts the chi.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Preparations. Benski at All discusses nomenclature and several preparations for
this herb. A variety of names are used to emphasize
certain desirable qualities in the serbs, such as fat and
a marena phasier moo. Because the best quality irb is big,
fat and moist unprepared anim Marina has a powerful fire
(23:13):
draining action, so it is often used for conditions of
heat from excess in the lung and stomach with a
high fever and restlessness. Thirst and a large tidal bulse
is appropriate. In such from it is as white tiger
decoction or bionge, which is a classic decoction. Okay, so
different types. We have dry fried animalan air chownger moo.
(23:37):
The herb is dry fried over a medium flame until
slightly browned. The heavy bitter cooling qualities of that morena
readily injure the stomach and intestines and cause diarrhea. Fry
and reduces its cooling nature and moderates its fire draining effect.
Some fry it with wheat chaff to protect the digestion,
especially for those patients with both fire from deficiency and
(23:59):
spleen and stomach deficiency. Honting prepared adam raina amejure germu,
hunting prepared Ani marina or azoma germu aims to protect
the spleen and stomach by moderating its bitter, draining and
cooling nature, why adding sweetness to tonify the middle. This
(24:21):
form is best for those with damaged fluids and blood,
or those who are too weak to take strong bitter
cooling herbs. Salt fried Ani marainer are yon chow germu
slices of the herb briefly dry fried, then sprayed with
salt water, then dry fried again, or baked until dry.
(24:43):
The saltiness promotes its affinity for the kidneys and increases
its downward directing action.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Thus, salt fried.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Ana marina nourishes the yenn, moistens dryness, and cools and
drains ministerial fire. Vinegar fried animarina are su chow jermu
slices of enamorna which have been soaked in vinegar or
dry fried or baked until slightly brown, which focuses the
(25:13):
herb's actions.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
On the lungs. Origins of medicine the book Origins of
medicine and it looks like I need to.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Origins of medicine are the y Shwei Chi Yuan, which
was written in the Yuan dynasty which ran from twelve
seventy one to thirteen sixty eight CE. Notes to raise
to the head or to lead into its channels.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Prepare with vinegar.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
The ana marina then cools lung metal and drains fire
eat for example, e g. When lurking heat and the
lungs causes symptoms such as coughing or spinning up a
blood nose, bleeds, irritability from deficiency cough.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
And wheezing.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Wine fried animarina are joe chow jermu. Slices of the
herb are soaked in rice wine, then dry fried or
baked until somewhat browned. This has the effect of gutting
the herb's actions upward and lessens its cold draining qualities
Western uses. It appears as serb is primarily a Chinese herb.
(26:21):
The PDR for Herbal Medicines does have an entry for
the herb, but emphasizes its Chinese function, saying in China,
Germu is used for febrile conditions and inflammation, diabetes, dry cough,
bone fever quote quote unquote, bone fever, and general dehydration
and painful stole or streng uria. Strnguria is we often
(26:46):
we'll call it stringuary. It's basically trouble urinating and can
include urinary stones and things along those sides. It is
also a decoction for typhus, colet fever and tuberculosis, and
that's the whole thing that it talks about. So really
it really is emphasizing the Chinese aspects of the herb.
(27:09):
What this tells us is the fact that this is
a primarily Chinese irb. It's an important Chinese irve. By
the wise, it probably wouldn't be in the PDR for
Verbal Medicines. The BDR for Verbal Medicine does not have
a ton of Chinese irves. It does have some major
Chinese herbs, but that's about it. So this makes it
a pretty major Chinese herb, and the fact that it
doesn't really have a lot of Western uses indicates that
(27:29):
it's primarily Chinese in origin and use. Okay, so let's
talk about commentary on this. Benski at All as Usual
has an excellent commentary on the herb. Quote bitter, sweet, cold,
and moistening and a marina raizoma or jermu primarily acts
(27:50):
through the lung, stomach, and kidney channels. Bitter and cold
it drains fire, while it's sweet, cold and moistening qualities
and rich the yin and moisten. What is dry it
is clearing of moistening quality is the principal advantage of germu.
The upper burner it clears lung heat, and the middle
burner it cools the stomach, and a lower burner it
(28:13):
drains ministerial fire while also enriching the yin of the kidneys, lungs,
and stomach. Therefore, it can be used in situations of
both excess and deficiency when heat has dried the y
in fluids such as wasting and thirsting disorder. The Divine
(28:33):
Husbandsman's classic material medica that's the the ben Saud oh man,
I totally blanked on it, and I have it right here,
and I can't read the training. It's schand On ben
saw Jing there we go I got shand On Bensajin
explains that jermu governs wasting and thirsting. Heat in the
middle expels pathogenic chi, and by driving water downward, treats
(28:56):
floating the dima of the limbs. It tonifies insofficiency and
benefits the chi. And in parentheses it says he in
the middle refers to stomach yan deficiency. The pathogenic chi
that germu expels is pathogenic heat that is entered of
the body, particularly at the young brightness stage. This herb
(29:18):
drives water downward because it's cold. Moistening qualities drain the spleen.
Grand Material The Grand Materia of Medica, which is an
important book on the Bensu Goongmu written in fifteen ninety,
explains why jermu can act on both the lungs and
(29:40):
on the kidneys. When the kidney suffered dryness, acrid substances
should be bibed to moisten them. When the lung suffered
rebellion upward, bitter substances should be imbibed.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
To drain them. Jurmu is acrid, bitter and cold, so
below in moisten's kidney dryness and enrich jin above it
clears lung metal and drains fire. It acts at the chi.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Level of both channels to lead into the channel above.
Fry with wine, then bake it dry to move it
downward soaked in salt water, then bake.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That refers to some of the preparations we just mentioned.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
In an interesting further comment, leisure Schen notes that a
strangliratics swang chi acts at the blood level of the kidneys,
which is why the two herbs should be used together.
Jiang Chi Chun points out that jermu is not intrinsically
extremely cold, nor is it very bitter. He tasted and
(30:45):
compared germu with an equal amount of straggleiratics swang chi
and found little perceptible difference in temperature sensations. Then he
boiled germu and glycerosary radix consur licorice together and found
the result to be mainly sweet. Thus we know that
germu is neither extremely cold nor extremely bitter. However, it
(31:10):
does have copious fluid with which to enrich yin.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Some say that.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Germu can only cool heat as unable to enrich yin.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
This is viewing this is viewing germu.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Too Superficially, when I treat conditions of heat from excess
with a rapid pulse, I always use sheermu formulas with
which use the strike rate x wang chi totonifi Chi
can be too hot for some patients. Use germu as
a supporting herb. Its fluids, however, lubricate the intestines, and
(31:42):
so it should not be used if the stools are loose.
Chen and Chen also have some commentary on this herb
depending on the other herbs with which it is combined.
Germu has dual functions to clear excess or deficiency heat.
Is used often because it nourishes fluids and clears heat simultaneously. Furthermore,
(32:06):
germu is often preferred over yin tonics, which are hard
to digest and may cause damnness if not prescribed carefully.
All right, let's talk about some combinations. Benscadal combines this
orb with three others. First of these is Coptis raisoma
or huang leon. Both of these herbs are bitter and cold,
(32:30):
and both clear stomach heat and direct fired downward. However,
Coptus raisoma huang leon is drying by nature, and while
good for eliminating damness, it readily harms the yin. On
the other hand, germu is moistening and nourishes the yen
while cooling heat. Together, they act strongly to clear stomach
(32:51):
heat and direct fired downward, while concurrently drying damness without harming.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
The normal yin fluids.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
This pair is most often used for symptoms of blazing
stomach fire, such as voracious hunger, continual thirst, dry stools,
a dry yellow tongue coating, and a slippery rapid pulse.
Jottings from repeated celebration haul are chong qing Tong sweet
bee rid In eighteen ten, a text passed down through
(33:25):
the family of the celebrated Wang mung Ying which focuses
on the implications of the yin deficiency, notes that great
predominance of stomach heat will cause the yend to be
insufficient in harmonizing the yong fluids. Both yin and yang
will dry, leading to a parched inability to break down foods.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
This pair can reduce.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
The predominance of stomach heat and prevent further injury to
the stomach fluids. The other combinations with gypsum fibrosum or
shal just fibrosum Suregal is acrid, sweet and very cooling.
It convents muscle layer heat and cool stomach fire, and
(34:10):
while its heaviness directs fired downward, its acrid flavor allows
it to reach the exterior. Thus it addresses both the
interior and exter of the body. Jurmou is bitter and cold.
Its bitterness directs fired downward, while its moistening quality resolves dryness.
Together they have a powerful ability to cool heat in
(34:32):
the young brightness stomach while protecting the stomach fluids that
this heat would injury injure. The associated symptoms are high fever,
profuse sweating, insatiable thirst, large and strong pulse, red face,
and aversion to heat to heat. At this time where
(34:54):
the pathogenic heat widely spread throughout the body, not concentrated
in the intestines, treatment which it hempstick clear heat through
the intestines will not be effective.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Nor will the use of bitter cooling herbs.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Such as Coptus rhizomea huang wayan our scutal area rate
ex huang qin, which will further damage the fluids. The
best approach is to use acrid cold flavors combined with
bitter cold moistening qualities. Gypsum, fibrosium, suggo and jermu are
ideal for this purpose, combining to release heat and eliminate
(35:28):
irritability as in white tiger decoction by who Tong. So
that's the second time we've heard this by who Tong
being brought up, and it is an important verbal formula
which at some point, if I.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Haven't done, we'll talk about.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Chen and Chen have some interesting comments about the combination
of gypsum, fibrosim, suregal germu and sugau. Gypsum fibrosum are
often used synergistically to sedate fire and prevent the loss
of Yin sweet cold Jermu clears heat, generates fluids, and
moistens dryness. It clears heat in all three jows. Those
(36:08):
are the three burners we've talked about those in the past,
clearing lung heat in the upper jow, sedating stomach fire
in the middle jow, and clearing deficiency fire of the
kidney in.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
The lower jow.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
Very cold and thermal thermal nature sugoo enters the chi
energy level as best in clearing excess heat in the
lung and stomach. It is the herb of choice when
clearing heat from the chi level manifesting the symptoms of
high fever, extreme thirst, with preference for cold drinks, profuse sweating,
(36:42):
and a forceful rapid pulse. Together, Germu and sugow sedate
fire without draining it.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
And finally, our third.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Combination is sakau SalCo frucitus or salguoal. The acro flavor
of salkol. Salguo has a floating dispersing quality. Whilst nature
is warm and strongly drying, Germu is bitter and cold
is best a cooling heat and draining fire. Salcal fructus
(37:21):
salguo can scour away flam damness, awaken the spleen young,
and overcome the yin natured accumulation of turbid dampness. Germu
treats clumped heat, drains stomach fire, and alleviates the irritability
associated with heat from constrained pathogens in the interior. Each
(37:45):
of these herbs contributes opposite qualities to a combination which
regulates cold and heat, harmonizes the exterior and interior, and
is thus ideal for treating malarial disorders when the pathology
includes greater yen, turbid damas is fuming upward with irritability,
heat and profuse sweating. As explained in the Grand Materia Medica, Salkhol,
(38:10):
Fructus salguo, and germu used together treating miasmic malarial disorder
with chills and fever. As there's one yin herb and
one young herb, there is no problem of imbalance or
Sko Salkho Fructus salguol treats the cold that would occur
(38:31):
if just greater yen prevailed, while Jermu treats the fire
that would occur if just young brightness prevailed. So it's
a great combination. We see this a lot, by the way,
in certain combinations opposites, so the the ultimate effect is
regulatory that it's a really great way to combine herbs.
(38:52):
And that's our combinations. Let's step into comparisons of this
erb with other herbs, and actually Benski only combines us
with one other, which we've just mentioned, which is just
some fibrosum suregal.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
So the suregal.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
You can see that the combination of sugal and germou
is a very important combination, even though it wasn't one
of the combinations that we talked about. Jermu and huang
chi is also an important combination, but it wasn't brought
up in the combinations that I talked about, but it
was brought up elsewhere, so it's still an important combination.
(39:28):
So comparison, so let's compare this herb with suregal. Both
medicinals cool the lungs in stomach and both clear heat
from the young brightness chi level. This pair is therefore
appropriate for treating the irritability, thirst and fever, and the large,
strong pulse that characterize this condition. They are often combined
in the treatment of lung and stomach heat, leading to
(39:49):
such symptoms as thirst or cough. There are, however, significant
differences between them. Guermu primarily clears heat and moistens Besides
it's cooling the lungs, also cools the kidneys and nourishes
the yin owing to its acrid flavor. Gypsum fibrosum or
(40:10):
sugo primarily clears heat and disperses, which extends its effect
to the exterior. Its heavy property enables.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
It to reach the interior.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Gypsum fibrosium suregal protects the fluids by draining fire, while
jermou benefits the yin by directly generating fluids. So this
is sort of again combination, but this is a combination
of likes. You know, we have combinations of kind of opposites,
and here we have combinations of similar herbs that are
(40:42):
doing similar things to really amp up the effects that it's.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Trying to go for contents.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
According to Benski and his team, the main constituents of
germu or sapanines, flabinoids, lignanes, polysaccharides, alkaloids, and organic acids.
Chu Chen discuss a few specific By the way, Bensky
goes into a lot of specifics under these categories. So
I didn't get into because we're gonna doing that elsewhere
(41:13):
as well. To discussed a few specific components. Uh timo
saponin man different different different uh sarsa sarson sar sagin
all right, marcogen in uh I refuse to not put
(41:35):
these in. I'm going to try and get through each
of these every time. Uh neo neo guy gido ginin,
uh anna marns a b c D.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
So whatever you.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
See one of the chemicals that seems similar to the
latinum that is in this case Anna Marns in the
cases probably pretty exclusively in this in this particular herb.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Uh Leo at all.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Their team, which is a review Urocle says two hundred
and sixty nine compounds have been identified from anamorina as photoloids,
including steroidal sepponents, flavonoids, phenyl propenoids, alkaloids, steroids, organic acids, polysaccharides, benzophenones,
and other ingredients. So, in other words, as most of ours,
(42:23):
lots of stuff. So let's talk about the science beyond this,
So corneachen Chen. The pharmacological effects of germu include being
anti diabetic, antipyretic, antibiotic, anti neoplastic, and colon gogic. Remember
cold gogic induces the flow of bile. I mentioned that earlier. Again,
(42:44):
most of these were not in humans. But what's nice
about chen Chen's book is they also talk about clinical trials.
So here's they discussed two positive clinical studies. One discussed
the use of formula containing in treating prossatic hypertrophy. When
then any equals eighty, so eighty subjects. So again we're looking.
(43:07):
We want at least thirty to forty subjects in a study,
because then that allows us to apply population statistics to it.
Anything less than that we cannot make any determinations on
a population based on that study, and above that we
can start to do that. Any equals to eighty is
still relatively small, but is definitely statistically valid. And the
(43:31):
other using a different formula containing Germu to treat acute rheumatism.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
This one had an end of fifty six.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Again, the reason why I keep emphasizing these ends, it's
not just this statistical attitude to it, but it also
is a determination of the power of the city, how
strong the study is, so it's important to know how
many people, how many subjects there were in a given study.
So these were both statistically valid. What I don't think
about them is it's not about Germu. It's about the
(43:58):
formula that Germu was part of, and so take it
with a grain of salt. We know that German is useful,
but this doesn't tell us individually how useful Germu is.
But then again, in Chinese medicine, we use most of
ours in formulas, and so you know, the formulas become
useful to look at as well, Leo ed Adel says
(44:21):
studies have shown that the extracts and compounds from mannerand
as filoides have extensive pharmacological activities such as nervous system activity,
anti tumor, anti inflammatory, anti diabetic, anti osteoporotic, anti allergic,
anti platelet aggregation, antimicrobial, anti viral, anti aging.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Hair growth, promoting and preventing cell damage, etc.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
So lots of different stuff according to that one particular paper.
Another review by one at All from twenty fourteen says
crude extracts and pure compounds for man rain as floaties
exhibited significant pharmacological effects on the nervous system and the
blood system. They also showed valuable bioactivities such as anti tumor, antioxidation, antimicrobial, antivirus,
(45:14):
anti inflammation, anti osteoporosis, anti skin aging damage, as well
as other activities. So both of these last two were
review articles. I tend to prefer review review articles. Review articles,
especially meta reviews, are going to be much stronger evidence
(45:37):
on a given herb than individual trials will be, So
I don't try not to get in these in these episodes,
try not to get bogged down in a lot of trials.
I'd rather look at review articles these Both of these
were not the strongest review articles. They were not meta
analyses or actually systematic reviews.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
But I did give us some over use of GERMU.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
So so let's talk about drug herb interactions here. So
Chen and Chen say, it is prudent to and and
Chang Chen, by the way, should you should know one
of there's brother and sister uh John Chen and Tina Chen.
John Chen is a pharmacologist UH by training.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
As well as UH.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
He has a Chinese medical background as well. I think
he has a master's. I don't know if he's gotten
his doctor and actupuncturing a medicine or not. I wouldn't
be surprised if he asks. But he's a pharmacologist, so
he knows his stuff when it comes to these drug
of interactions. So Changchen say, it is proven to use
JERMU with caution with insulin, sulfonol, yureas and other anti
(46:46):
diabetic medications, so no interaction has been documented. The combination
of anti diabetic herbs and drugs may have a synergistic
effect leading to hypoglycemia. So this this is what we
call an expert opinion.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
It does not have.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
When you look at evidence based medicine, it is lowest
level of evidence.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
It's level D evidence. So take it with a grain.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Of salt when it comes to expert opinions, and I
definitely considered doctor Chad an expert in this. In this field,
when it comes to expert opinions, it just means there's
no evidence behind it. It doesn't mean that it won't happen.
It's not very important to pay attention to. But as
(47:33):
far as evidence based medicine levels are concerned, it's the
lowest level of evidence. That animal research because it's not
in humans, and bench research because again it's not in humans,
are the lowest level of evidence. So take it with
a grain of salt. Something to be aware of. But
until I see more evidence, I'm not sure. I'm super
worried about this strunger of interaction. A literature search did
(47:55):
find some potential interactions between constituents of and formulas containing
German and various arcroone p for fifty issymes or peak
glac aprotein. The sarcroone pter for fifty and peak glaco
proteins are what we use is risk factors for drug
of interactions. So any interactions with either of those are
going to increase the risk of a drug of interaction.
But none of these were clinical or specific to the
(48:18):
whole herb. So when you're looking at formulas, is it
just because a formula caused an interaction doesn't mean that
germu or anything to do with germu was the reason
why there was an interaction. So I don't consider that
evidence of an interaction between germu and drugs or sarcroone
(48:39):
P fifty peak glacoprotein.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
And then.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
Looking at the constituents of germu, I hate looking at
that and going Okay, here's a drug of interaction.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
We're looking at constituents.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
And rbs because when you look at an individual constituent
alone versus the overall herb. In an herb, there may
be constituents that do increase in interaction with specific chychroomee
pary for fifty, but there may be another constitution where
that decreases a chance of an interaction with the zychrome
P for fifty. And then when they're doing research on
a specific target, specific constituent, they're usually looking at quantities
(49:19):
of that individual consistent that component that you.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
Would never get if you were using.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
The herb properly as a whole, and so I don't
consider interactions with constituents to be of a huge risk
for the herb overall. So really what I want to
see are studies that look at the herb and then
determine the whole herb all the constituents. It can be
an extract of that herb, just concentrated constituents, but it
(49:46):
has to have all the constituents of that herb and
then see if there's any interactions between these. And there
was no evidence that I found that showed that first
Germo okay, and that my assessment that there isn't a
whole bunch of worry here on Drugger of interactions, which,
(50:06):
by the way, is what that book we were talking
about earlier, the Integrated Pharmacology book talks about a lot.
So I'm definitely up there in the expert category. And
when it comes to Drugger of interactions on this stuff,
I'm not particularly worried about TURMIAU and Drugger of interactions.
And to back that up, the American Herbal Product Association's
Botanical Safety Handbook, which is an excellent resource, says this
(50:27):
herb is interaction class A herbs for which no clinically
relevant interactions are expected, and that's where I would sit
absolutely with this particular herb research I've.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
Done on it.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Okay, let's talk about some concerns about this herb. Benski
and his team note several concerns with turmou. Under the
heading of cautions and contraindications, they say contraindicated in cases
of cold from deficiency of the spleen and stomach.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Or diarrhea.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
Under the heading of traditional contraindications, they say a passage
and harm and benefit in the material Medica at the
Bensu highly in eighteen ninety three observes germu injures the
stomach and lubricates the intestines, giving people diarrhea is forbidden
for anyone, which is sort of such as impotence coupled
(51:20):
with quick arousal and quick ejaculation. We expleen inability to
digest food, stomach deficiency with no thought of eating, or
kidney deficiency diarrhea. This passion goes on to quote Shoeshoe Wey,
who reminds us that germu is bitter and cold and
(51:41):
thus shares the qualities of autumn and winter, which are
inappropriate for long term toonification, and people ignore these aspects
and focus on its ability.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
To enrich the yen. So this is not a nerve
that should be used to enrich yin long term.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
More. I think of it more to protect yin as
you're draining fire more than anything else. It protects more
than enriches. Chen and Chen have some concerns as well.
Cold in nature, germu is contradnicated in patients with diarrhea, sleen,
or stomach deficiencies or kidney deficiency. Brandon Wiseman warns because
(52:23):
germu is a cold, moistening substance that lubricates the intestines,
it is inappropriate for patterns of sleen vacuity with sloppy stool,
and this is an interest in. The American Herbal Products
Associations Botanical Safety Handbook says this is in safety Class
two D states other specific use restrictions as noted, and
the book discusses two issues, a contraindication for people with
(52:46):
diarrhea and a concern about glucose regulation and combining with
diabetic drugs, which we've just mentioned about both of those.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
So I think that's well covered.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
And that does it for today's herb. Today we start
with our discussion. Uh. We started our discussion with another
Chinese herbal legend. Then we looked at another single Chinese
herb germu an a marine riizomea or and a marine riizome.
This herb is in the Chinese medical subcuty of herbs
(53:19):
that train fire. It is an interesting important herb for
treating heat and yin deficiency and it appears to be
quite safe with the possible exception of patients with diabetes
or diarrhea. With that, we conclude another exploration into the
gui center of a very useful Chinese herb.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
In two weeks we will.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Be looking at another Chinese erbal formula of rend sheen
bidy Soon let me get those toe marks corn shn
by du soon our genzen powder to overcome pathogenic influences.
It is under the subcounty of promulas that released the
exterior disorders with interior deficient and see and it's useful
for treating external attacks for colds with underlying deficiency.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
We will do We will be doing our deep dive.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Into this formula A and as usual we will look
at something a little different.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Please join us as.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
We don our space suits do a space walk and
enter the unexplored space of medicinal herbs in our next
exciting episode. Thank you very much, appreciate you listening to
another one of our episodes. If you like this podcast,
please do us a huge favorite subscribe in your favorite
podcast app. We appreciate it and thank you very much,
(54:38):
and don't forget that amazing Continue ed continuing education deal
at www dot Integrative Medicine Council Council dot org, slash CEU.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
S one CEUs one the number one.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
You'll always get in touch with me at doctor Greg
at sperbserbs dot com or at our website www dot
sperbserbs dot com. And I just want to say, we
just put up all our episodes up to date on YouTube,
so you can find look for Sperbs Herbs on YouTube
and you can have access to all of them. Right now,
(55:17):
there's no videos with them. They just have a standard
sort of background video. It's all auditory. But we are
in the process of getting our videos up on each
of these as well, so that'll be coming up in
the next few months probably, so aw's we get that,
and so.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
We have them all up on YouTube, so you can
take a look at them.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Thank you, okay, And as usual we have bibliography. These
tend to be a little bit shorter because I have
a lot of information in my textbooks, so a little
bit shorter they are than usual.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
There we go, Thank.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
You very much, spurs Or.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
The proceeding was presented by doctor Greg Spermer.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
We would like to thank Janelle for all our support
and everybody else who contributed to this program.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
Give him the name Roger Campbell mm HM
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!