Do You Know, Do You Know, Do You Know ... college's four-time champions? - Mat Stats 22 - The Mat Stats Show by the NWCA

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Statistics. They can mean many things. It can be a batting average,
a win percentage, correlations, andstandard deviation. But numbers aren't just for
nerds. In life, decisions needdata. In wrestling decisions, projections and
hypotheticals also need data. Here onMatt Stats, we take historical data,

(00:28):
theories, and statistics and apply itto the world's oldest and greatest sport.
Now to your trio of numerical nerdwalls, Glenn Gormley, Kevin Hazard,
and Jason Bryant, and welcome toepisode twenty two of the Matt Stats Show.
Fresh off a trip from Fargo,North Dakota at the USA Wrestling sixteen
U and Junior Nationals, I'm JasonBryant, joined by Glenn Gormley and Kevin

(00:51):
Hazzard, and we get to havefun today. Well we always have fun,
but today we get to talk aboutfour timers, because that seems to
be the pinnacle of one's career.In high school in the states that are
only four years, a four timestate champ is the deal. In college,
it's an exclusive group of wrestlers whoare four time national champions. Of
course, the COVID year makes thepotential for more than that. Really really

(01:15):
dicey, but we're sticking with thefour time theme. A lot of research,
a lot of names to go through, and a lot of educational information
for you today, because it's notjust gonna be on the five guys we
know that have won Division one championshipsfour times. That would be a rather
short show. We'd just be sayingthe same thing about the legendaries you already

(01:36):
know about. But before we getto that, Kevin Hazzard, Glenn Gormley,
what's been up with you guys?Start with you, mister Hazard.
For me, it's just been prettymuch work. I did enjoy the you
know, Fargo, Brian did havea two time All American. He placed
in Greco and Freestyle, which wasreally really nice. Third Greco that was

(01:57):
Kayden Smiths Adulation Caden, that's athat's a big deal. You got he
got double wins. That's one thatmakes me feel very old because my first
year in Fargo was nineteen ninety nineand guess who was wrestling on the raised
platform that year. Cayden's uncle,Christian, who was an eighty three and
a half pound cadet at the time. So h and I know Cayden's dad,

(02:23):
Daniel, who I actually who actuallybelieve or not, was at Western
Branch. It was was if acoasting for one day before a coaching situation
at at at Western Branch, youknow, send him back over to Chesapeake.
So that was a really thig.Like Daniel Smith, Cayden's dad,
almost went to my high school forhis senior years. So that was a
pretty interesting situation there. And I'mlike, hey, hey, that's Daniel's

(02:43):
kid. Yep, sure enough,and uh I talked with Brian about Cade's
performances. Tony Rotundo took some greatshots over the weekend. Of course,
he sent the group text with meand me and Brian with some pictures of
Caden. So it's pretty cool,like, you know, we're seeing kids
that you know, I kind ofyou know, the kids that I grew
up with. And then you're outthere and you're seeing Steve Mako's son win

(03:04):
a title, Eric Larkins son wina title. You're seeing Damian Logan's son
win a title. You're seeing DougSchwab's son went a time. It's like
are you Like, It's like,man, I've been doing this a while.
You've got your year to the pointwhere you guys like, yeah,
I remember when their parents or somethingplace. So we've got the next generation
of kids coming through. And whatwas twenty five years twenty four tournaments for

(03:25):
me? Because I do count becauseI was there for the COVID year,
I was outside of the turf.My nephew got married during the canceled year,
so I wasn't Fargo that year whennobody else was. So my streak
is still intact. COVID be darnedthere, Glenn. We're gonna be down
at the convention this week and FortLauderdale as we record this four July twenty
six. That's always going to bea big guy. I haven't been to

(03:46):
the nbc A convention in a numberof years, but Dan Weavers gonna have
me doing who knows what. Iknow, I'll be talking a lot.
But what are you looking forward towith the upcoming nwc A convention. I
really think it's a great show thatthey put on there. Dan Weaver dog
run a really good show, asdoes Mike and the rest of the people
at n WCA. I'm actually goingto be one of the vendors there.

(04:06):
Just let people know all about ourmatch stat show. So it's going to
be a really good time, allright, talking Matt Stads. So today,
so Glenn goes into the pop culturereferences of the eighties and early nineties
here with our do you know?Do you know? Do you know?
Mars Blackman from Nike and is itthe shoes? So I was very happy

(04:27):
to see this one as it cameacross before we started, because I've become
a bit of an Air Jordan guy. I've become a bit of a sneakerhead
at last count one, two,three, four, five, six,
seven, eight, nine nine pairof Air Jordan's and a couple more dunks
in various Air Force ones. Soyeah, I've a bit of a sneakerhead.
I may have also hit on theunc ones while in Fargo, much

(04:48):
to the to the behest of onebetter half of mine. So I am
owing the yard work quite a bitfor another pair of shoes that are coming
in. But of the reference here, do you know? Do you know?
Do you know? And that's thething I love about this show is
when Glenn has an assignment that's gonnabe like it's gonna be heavy stats,
and it's like, all right,you've you've putting me to work. So

(05:10):
I'm digging and digging and digging becauseI love educating the masses of wrestling people
on names that you should know,because with the number of schools we have,
it is important for wrestling fans topay attention to all levels of wrestling,
not just the top bitty part ofthe pyramid. The elite of the
elite is great, but all ofour coaches and athletes. You know how

(05:30):
many people were are our high schoolcoaches were elite coaches or elite athletes,
very very small. So it's thatgroundswell of support and a lot of our
Division two Division three athletes so andsome of those really good, accomplished Division
two, Division three athletes, etc. So we're gonna get into that today
as always, Glenn, your favoriteBob Seeger song, Take us Away.
Yes, I feel like in thenumber and as Jason is saying, this

(05:54):
is less of a statistical analysis showand more of a statistical education show to
let you guys know about everybody who'sdone special things in the world's oldest and
greatest sport. Okay, so wedo that. I feel like a number
thing. I can't sing, soI'm not gonna bother singing it. Then,
of course the next slide. Wesay this every show. The opinions

(06:17):
expressed on this show don't necessarily reflectthe three of us. Don't all think
alike. It doesn't have anything todo with the NWCA, what they think.
We're just a subsidiary of them,but we think on our own.
Okay, Now, we want tolet people know about who won what titles

(06:38):
of how many and in all differentthings men, women, NCA, n
AIA, the WCWA, the NCWCwhich the latter two are women's things.
In case there's some dinosaurs out therearen't following women wrestling enough. Okay.
Now, our last show was aboutthe greatest team ever collegiate team. Okay,

(07:00):
and on that show I did itscomplete statistical analysis. But I'm trying
to draw here and explain to peoplewhy it's really difficult to do a show
on who the greatest individual wrestler is. So I'll try to paint an analogy.
I'll try to go to these slidesquickly. Slide five shows the people
have won the most NBA titles BillRussell case anyone who doesn't know this has

(07:24):
one eleven. It goes all theway to Hels some famous guys named Michael
Jordan won six do you know?Do you know? Do you know?
Okay? And Lebron Is won four. Okay. Now, with that being
said, if you get into adebate right now with anybody at any bar,
they're gonna say it, the greatestbasketball player ever is Michael Jordan,

(07:45):
Lebron James. Well, why notRussell? He's one of eleven titles,
which is more than Jordan and Jameshave one combined, which is an interesting
stat. Okay, Well, let'slook at other sports. Then slide seven
and shows you the great brothers,the Rocket and the Pocket Rocket one.
Pocket Rocket one eleven and his brotherwon eight. The great one, Wayne

(08:09):
Gretzky, only won four. He'stied for fifty first for most Stanley Cups.
Okay, so there's no question fora stats guy, the great one
Wayne Gretzky is the greatest player ever. Okay, But if you just look
at titles, he's not even inthe running. Well, what about other
sports? Okay? When you shiftto slide nine, Okay, if you

(08:35):
get into conversation about the greatest footballplayer ever, everyone always says Tom Brady.
Because Brady has won seven Super Bowls, which is more than anybody else.
Okay, what the famous kicker AdamVinetari, who won a Super Bowl's
Brady's teammate and also won a SuperBowl as Peyton's teammate. On two people

(08:56):
have won more Super Bowls and AdamVinetarian, are you trying to tell me
if you just use super Bowl titlesonly two players when more valuable in NFL
history? They're not in Vinetary Okay? And incaseion wondering, Adam Vinetary is
a kicker. Yes, so let'snot leave that important fact out. I

(09:18):
mean, we got a quarterback anda defensive player and then a kicker in
our top pickery on this page.And I like Terry, Yeah, he
did it that field goal to helpthe Patriots win the game. After the
tuck rule happened with the Tom Bradygame against Invaders. I was in Richmond,
Virginia at the Virginia Challenge Middle schoolstate duels that night. I remember

(09:41):
that game. It was in thesnow. I remember that one. Yeah,
yeah, I remember that game well. Moving forward, So anyway,
Brady one titles to the box,aren't happy go bux yep? Yeah?
And I put the slide in thereabout autogram. People keep on saying he
won that many NFL titles. Hewasn't always in the NFL, Graham.
Okay, So and then the nextslide gets more a little bit depth into

(10:05):
stats. I don't want to gettwo depth in this because we want to
talk about wrestling mainly. But footballhas twenty two players on the field at
the same time, and Brady didn'tplay defense, he didn't kick the field
goal, so he's not on thefield nearly as much. It's easier to
dominate a smaller sport like a basketball, hockey or a wrestling if it's individual.

(10:26):
Okay, Now, let's go tothe last famous team sport in America.
Slide twelve. Baseball. Yogi Burrowhas won ten World Series titles.
Okay. Vick Rashi, the greatestbaseball player from ever from William and Mary,
has won six, and two ofthe greatest players ever, Ted Williams

(10:48):
and Barry Bonds, have never wona World Series title. Okay. Now,
nobody in the world would say,no saber metrics guy would say that
Bonds and Williams are not two ofthe greatest players, and Vic Rash he's
better than am et cetera. Justbecause of titles one, but somehow in

(11:11):
football we say that. Okay,Now I do have a question. Kevin
vick Vrashi came to William Mary nineteenthirty eight. Kevin, will you were
a schoolmate of his? Uh No, I know that I am ancient,
but I am not that ancient.I was not even thought of then.

(11:33):
I'm a couple of a generation anda half behind him. But he was
a really, really good football playerbaseball player. Yeah yeah, okay.
So the next slide, the bestWhite Matt Stats can explain this is let
Yogi Burr take over. We allknow about his famous quotes. When you

(11:54):
come to a fork in the road, you take it. It's like Dejaville
all over again. In baseball.You don't know nothing. No one goes
there. Nowadays it's two crowded.That was one of my favorite lines ever,
being an owned over crowded bar,that Jason Briant would Jason Brant stopped
coming in because it was too crowded. Nobody came there. It was just
a little too far away from thecampus of that School of Norfolk. Now,

(12:16):
I will also say one of myfavorite ones that I think this might
be attributed to Barrows what um halfthis game is ninety percent mental? I
think that was another one that maybe attributed of baseball's half metal, something
like that. Yeah, that's alwaysa good one. Yeah, yeah,

(12:37):
it's ninety five percent of baseball's halfmetal. So okay, this would be
a huge task to do it somethinglike this. Maybe one day I'll get
a PhD on this topic and beable to speak educationally about it. But
until that day, we're gonna talkabout the people who won four titles and
other people have won the most incertain categories. Now, in wrestling five

(13:05):
Division one men's five people have wonfour titles, fifty one have won three
titles, and of course, ourlegend of all legends, Dan Gabels,
won two. Nobody's telling me there'sfifty six wrestlers better than Dan Gabel.
That would be blasphemous. Okay,So I'm not even getting into that.

(13:26):
Okay. So that's the reason I'mnot prepared to say who's the greatest wrestler
ever? In track, of course, it's much easier a time as a
time, okay, like Hussein Boltonflowed Joe with the fastest human beings ever,
one male, one female. Okay, Now where did I get this
data about all these champions? Well, most of this data comes from Jason

(13:50):
Bryant's Annual Guide to Wrestling. Okay, and all the four time champions.
I got it, you know where, from Jason Bryant, and I will
back that up. Get Kevin takeover something I was just gonna say.
Every year I use Jason's Guide formy NCUBA picks. It is the best

(14:16):
source of information out there. Theproblem is is if you're using it for
picks and you're losing. That's nota problem of my data, that's a
problem of your drafting. So we'lljust leave that. Avitel. You can
you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him pick the
right guy in the first round.This take it from a guy who picked
Keyshawn Johnson in round No. No. Eight. No. I picked Cordell

(14:37):
Stewart first round one year in myfantasy football league. Actually still won the
league that year with a sub fivehundred record going into the playoffs. So
as far as the wrestling picks,I can't really speak on that because I
work for the Big Blue disc whenit comes to the postseason, so I
am not doing any pick ums inthat regard because that would be forbidden because

(14:58):
we have to do the whole readssay don't bet on it. So just
putting that out there, I can. I can enjoy people in their pick
them games, but I cannot actuallyparticipate. So I just give you the
resources to do something with it.Moving forward, Yes, moving forward.
Slide twenty one starts the fun partabout this show. There are twenty nine
four time collegiate champions, Kevin,let us know what divisions they come from.

(15:24):
Okay, just starting at the top, they're five from Division one men's,
five from Division two men's actually twofrom Division three men's does that mean
Division three is better? And eightNAIA. And on the women's side there's
four w w C w A two, n C w C zero and AIA

(15:52):
zero Women's NCAA. Now, tome, the most interesting thing is that
the WCA already had has four fourtime champs. It hadn't been around that
long comparatively, Well, I'm sorry, the NCWC has not been around that
long and you already have two.That's that's pretty impressive. And we'll talk

(16:15):
about one of them later. ButI've watched been much at herson's high school
and as far as the distinction goes, just to give you some because you
know us in semantics. The WCWAwas the the initial governing body for women's
college wrestling. It was it startedofficially, I want to say, like

(16:37):
two thousand and seven, two thousandand eight. There were women's college Nationals
starting in two thousand and four.So for the purposes of history, I
do group the first women's college Nationalsthe WCN acronym with the WCWA until it
can. It came to completion intwenty twenty. Now, the NAIA hosted
its first women's official National Championships thisyear. They did have a championship invitational

(16:59):
the previous year, the year itwas canceled was also COVID year, so
we do have length of time forfour time Women's All Americans on the nai
side, but they did not competein one of those years, so the
four time champion distinction is actually notyet available, as the disclaimer at the
bottom does the National Collegiate Women's Championships, which is the NCAA Schools, but

(17:21):
does not have the NCAA Big Bluedisc yet. Their history is still created
as we are emergency for it,but it doesn't yet have the NCAA logo
on it, so it's a it'sa national college championship with the NCAA teams.
That has been around four years andwe did have our first two four
time champs. So that's where theNCAA Women zero comes in right now because
we haven't had one yet. Andthe combined thing, that's the one that

(17:42):
I like to get to because thoseare like the bar trivia questions we get
to and we'll touch on those whenwe get to them. So just a
little clarity on how the women's structureis because again they're in the foundational stages
of the sport in terms of thecollege championship stage. So that's where we're
at there. Okay, Then thenext slide shows you the five time men's

(18:06):
D one champions and I think everyoneknows the people, Pat Smith, Kle
Sanderson, Logan Steber, Kyle Dake, and Yannide and it is a wild
thing that Cornell has two of thosefive. Yeah, And the astros on
this one denotes undefeated, so youwill see that more than once because if
you were not aware, we havemore than one undefeated collegiate national champion across

(18:30):
college college wrestling. Well, theother thing on kale also is these four
time champion, four time ow Okay, and here's work pretty amazing. Yeah
yeah, okay, And here's wherewe Jason Bryant gave us the information to

(18:51):
dive deep into this. Um,go ahead, Jason Lunn with this.
This is your baby. Yeah,this is the near misses. This is
one of the what ifs, becausea lot of it. We'll start with
the first name on the list,Ed Bannock. This is why people regard
his match with Mark Schultz in theNCAA finals to be one of the greatest
of all time because it ended bannocksrun. He had already won two titles

(19:14):
going in for the third, andhe's got you know, Mark Schultz,
who's a freaking hammer. As weall know, he eventually won it.
So we've got a one one twoone. Then Lincoln mackel Ravey, who
famously lost to Steve Marinetti from Illinoisin the finals. We have another one,
one two one. Both of thoseguys are Hawkeyes. Now we go
to nineteen forty seven. So whenYanni and Spencer Lee won their titles as

(19:37):
true freshman, it was the firsttime since nineteen forty seven that two true
freshman had won titles in the sameyear. The point about that going back
to forty seven is this is postWorld War Two. So on forty six,
freshmen weren't eligible when we first startedwrestling back up now, granted,
some schools were still wrestling, butin the NCAA championships didn't exist. Now
in forty seven, they gave allfreshman eligibility to kind of let coerce the

(20:00):
college sports to come back, andof those we had five freshman champions that
year. Two of them were fromCornell College, Lowe Lang and Dick Houser.
Low Lang was in a car accidentin January of nineteen forty eight with
Dick Houser. It was several milesaway from the Cornell College campus in Mount

(20:21):
Vernon, Iowa, and at CornellCollege to this day, so the only
private school to win an NCAA championshipin what we now consider Division One.
It was just the NCAA back then. It was not a even college or
university yet. So Lang came backfrom injury and won two more titles.
If low Lang is not a caraccident and doesn't I believe fracture his vertebrae
or something he's the you know,it's common perception is he would or could

(20:45):
have been the first NCA four time, and he would have no longer been
dropped off of these lists because he, oh, well, he didn't even
place four times. Of course,he can't be concluded on a strict statistical
list, which goes to Glenn's pointthat looking at this strictly from a statistical
standpoint makes it very hard to determinewho the best was of all time.
Plus, we have eras we haveeligibility of you know, the post War

(21:08):
War two, then we have theyou know, the Gable era, as
we say, the four year eligibilityof you know, wrestling past nineteen six,
sixty eight, nineteen sixty nine,so that it altered the course of
wrestling history. And I also haveto give a shout out that information came
from the late arno'neeman, who wasa Cornell University guy who wrote a book
The Dream Team of nineteen forty sevenabout the Cornell College National championship team.

(21:33):
So I gleaned that information there andin low Lang. If he's not in
the car incident, I think theentire lore of wrestling history changes, you
know it, Pat Smith's situation goes, wow, the first since so it
in forty seven, forty forty ninefifty, so nineteen fifty. Oddly enough,
another another Iowa team won at thatyear Iowa State Teachers College now known

(21:53):
as Northern Iowa. So yeah,that's the one interesting piece of history here.
As a how about this? Howtough was this dude came back from
like a fractured spine and won thetitle the next year? I mean,
yeeds, I mean that's they builthim different back then, Kevin coming out
of the war, All those guyshe came back from the war were different.

(22:15):
Yeah. And then the last twonames on this lis Spencer Lee,
who as we know, recency oneone one six as he lost in the
semis to Matt Ramos from Purdue andthen injury defaulted the six. And Jaden
Cox, who went won five oneone losing as a sophomore. So the
near miss there, I mean hewon as a freshman, won two more
titles, so I feel like theone one two ones are more of the

(22:38):
near miss. Although if you lookwho Jaden Cox wrestled that year, it
was you know, Snyder and Morganmcintish, So that's who who the els
were, if memory served, Sothe near misses there in Division one are
quite interesting. And again Lowe Langprobably could be a story upon his own,
but you know, there's there's solittle written about it. Thank thankfully
Arnold who who left us a coupleof years years ago, did have a

(23:00):
chance to write a story about thatdream team in nineteen forty seven, the
Cornell College National championship team. Sothat's where that information came from. Okay,
and there's there's been twenty one Divisionone freshman champions, which is very
interesting. There were eventual four timeAll Americans. Specially is the only three

(23:23):
time Division one champion to losion asenior year Vision one. Note the distinction
because that's a little foreshadow. Youknow what's coming up next. You will
not believe this stuff, folks,as we moved to Division two. Correct,
you won't. So, Kevin,let us know who the five Division
two champions were. Please. It'sTim Wright from SIU, Edward filled,

(23:47):
Dan Russell Portland State because brother wasper Dan Gabel, the best high school
wrestler he ever saw, Cole Provencefrom Central Oklahoma, Less Sigmund Nebraska Omaha,
and Joey Davis from Notre Dame College. Again note the asterisks. The
iceman Joey Davis from Compton, California, four time undefeated Division two champion for

(24:11):
Frank Romano at Notre Dame College.Tim Wright was the first of the four
NCAA champions because he did it firstin Division two. And then now comes
the real dicey stuff, so Russell'ssenior year, Russell wins it for Portland
State, so four timer there thenext year and then subsequent year after that,
Tony Champion and James Sisson are threetime champs going into their senior year

(24:34):
and losing the finals consecutive years.It was like, once Dan Russell won
his four for Portland State, thewrestling gods, we're gonna say, nope,
no more four timers from Portland Statehaving guys losing the finals the next
year and then the year following.It's also the only time in history,
as the note says, that we'vehad four timers losing the finals as seniors

(24:56):
in any division. Steve Saxland ofNorth Dakota State, who it was,
a guy that's actually been really goodto us over the years with his information,
with his uh, you know,cons a restaurant out there and Fargo
and has the three X gear thatit was kind of one of the more
popular brands for wrestling in the Midwest. He's part of the Hurd and Horns
group, so they've always done agood job worse there. And then Mark
Dodging from Central Oklahoma goes won threeone one, so Saxlon again. We

(25:21):
talked about building people like Lowlang different. You build people from Pipestone, Minnesota
at different too. You'll be attletough to survive those winners. And then
Willingly go to Fargo in the wintertimeand wrestle for DSU and coach Bucky Man
back when they're their powerhouse division twoyears. So just a weird note that
Russell wins four and then the nexttwo years wrestlers from Portland State fall in

(25:42):
the finals to prevent themselves from beingfour timers. That's just a weird,
weird stat in wrestling history. Yes, some we'll move on to the men's
Division three, four time champions slytwenty eight, go ahead, Kevin so
Division three, it's Marcus Leavesser fromAugsburg and Riley la Fever from Wabash.

(26:08):
Interesting note about well one leaves againAstrisks because he was undefeated, started his
career at Minnesota, went across thestreet to Augsburg, played football and wrestled,
so he was an undefeating. Theguy was a hammer. I mean
he had some major wins one farago. The guy was the truth and
just said, hey, you knowwhat, I'm gonna play football too,
and Augsburg had some hammers back inthe day. La Fever when he was

(26:32):
he was a four timer, wasnot undefeated, but had his sheriff wins
over Division one All Americans. Inone of his championship years, him and
two of his brothers were in thefinals the same year. Now we know
about the fine Silvers from Duke withfour brothers that qualified for the tournament,
but the le Fevers, it's thefirst time three brothers in the same tournament
have made the NCAA finals in thesame year. So that was in Hershey,

(26:53):
Pennsylvania, which was Brian Hazard wason the microphone there and that was
just one of those memorable things inhistory, like, oh okay, we've
got three of them from the littleGiants of Wabash. Near Miss is here
in Division three. Now D threeis very unforgiving because what I love about
the Division three tournament, especially now, even though I didn't start going to
two thousand and nine, is theunforgiving nature of wrestling is pretty much on

(27:18):
display because a lot of the Divisionthree guys in the NAI, guys now
there may be coming out of highschool. They might know some of the
names, but they're not like youknow, junkies about no one who names
are like, I don't care ifyou're a D one guy, You're just
gonna go out there. Yeah,yeah, I'm just gonna beat you.
Who are you? And you geta lot of upsets in the first round
of Division three. I mean aone seed loses in the first round every

(27:38):
year. Seawn Smith here from DelawareValley goes one, one, two one.
Now, which I find interesting abouta couple of these stats here is
these guys in the n D threeand the NAI that are on these paths.
The near missus lost to eventual threetime in two and three time champs
like they were in the middle ofthe streaks crossed. So it creates these

(27:59):
these dream battles like the Bannock Schultzbattle. We've had those a couple times
and other divisions. Jim Jackotel atTrenton State which is now currently known as
tcn J one three one one,losing the Sean Sheldon of all Beneath Shawn
Sheldon, a a notable name inGreco Roman, been on the seam and
a coach for a long long time. Rafael Wilson from Augustana, that's the
one in Rock Island, Illinois,one five one one National champions A freshman

(28:22):
gets beat gets wins a pigtail,and then again D three Craziness gets beaten
the round of sixteen, then losesagain to conci Semis, takes fifth,
never loses another match again, winningninety one in a row, which,
as you see on the sheet atranks eleventh all time in college wrestling history.
So again, if if Rafael Wilsondoesn't have a bad day or a

(28:42):
bad tournament as a sophomore back inthe nineties, does does he have a
wind streak that is like just immeasurableBecause right now we know KALs is one
fifty nine, but you know behindthat we've got a couple more. Maybe
that's another show about wind streaks.But Rafael Wilson was a bad dude in
his day. So of those wehad five freshman champs you don't red shirt

(29:03):
in Division three now. Granted,some guys come in after they transfer and
have served a red shirt, forexample, maybe as a freshman they red
shirted, still preserve your eligibility,but you don't. You might get a
hardship year, but typically you're notgonna you're wrestling in your Division three You're
gonna wrestle, so not a wholeio. You're a freshman, guess what
you're in the lineup, So nota whole lot of that seasoning to save

(29:25):
you for the next year in Divisionthree, So a lot fewer, fewer
champions there now moved to the naiwhere we had four or we had eight
four time national champions rather and yousee some schools that look familiar there now
lock Haven which is currently a Divisionone wrestling program, D two school and
everything Saint Cloud, which is theDivision two powerhouse. They've won five national
championship. Simon Frasier's in Division twonow now Montana State, Northern Southern Oregon

(29:48):
and Grand View still an AI schools. A matter of fact, Southern Oregon
and Montana State Northern two kind ofthe stalwarts of the NAIA and back in
the day when the NI started wrestlingin the late fifties. It served a
lot of the small schools very well. And this is where you know those
schools had dual affiliations. So Lockhavenwas was an NCAA school and had a
dual affiliation with the NAIA. Soagain, the common misconception back in the

(30:11):
day was all the nai qualified forthe NCAA Championships. No, you could
only compete in the NCAA Championships ifyour school was an NCAA school. And
now if you wrestled in the nAIA, it really didn't have anything to
do with it. Back then itwas they were completely saved. You could
wrestle in both a matter of fact. That's how Gray and coach Simons had
seven national championships. But this iswhere the history goes. Gray Simons was

(30:33):
the first collegiate four time national champion. Now this goes back. This wouldn't
he wouldn't be the first of thefour timers collegiately if Lowell Lang doesn't get
hurt. So Gray Simon's place inhistory directly impacted by Lowell Lang. In
nineteen forty eight, Jerry Swelpa lockHaven. Jim Hayes Winkle was an Olympian
and of course his son. Youknow, I see Davis Sam's son.

(30:56):
So Uncle Jim and his twin brotherDave were all Americans at Saint Cloud State.
Bob Molly of Simon Frasier Russell BruceBaumgartner in the eighty four Olympic finals.
He was. He was a CFLHall of Famer for the Winnipeg Blue
Bombers, and his son actually Wressels. Justin Abdu is the current coach at
Southern Simon Frasier, which is theonly Canadian school in the NCAA, actually

(31:18):
has a win over Cal Sanderson inhis international career. Turk Lords was a
bad man and jam I brought Dutchess. I was a four timer and then
rose recently Evan Hansen. No,not the Broadway one, but the one
from Iowa is your four timer.Now. We did have a near miss
this year. We had a wrestlergoing for four and he got beaten the
Semis Sound Familiar Division one. BotterdineBoggie Boldmine. He is a Mongolian native.

(31:44):
He came to the United States Wressellat Northwest Tech, where he had
the junior college placement learning folk style, then went on the run had the
extra year, the COVID year,so he was one one one in the
NIA the extra year. Beating thesemifinals by Sha Roughridge in one of the
craziest matches I've ever seen. BaldminIs down by a point with under thirty

(32:05):
to go, gets a takedown onthe edge, so here we go.
We got the restart, I thinkwith twelve seconds to go and baldma Is
on top up by a point.Ruffridge gets a reversal like at the buzzer
to win it. And it wasjust the most It was a crazy sequence
and I'm just like, that justhappened. That just happened. Now,
didn't have the cavalcade of holy earthshaking arena in this like like Tulsa did

(32:30):
when Spencer League got beat, butit was still a notable, notable thing
because it would have been historic withan n AI four timer and of course
a five time actual place winner becausehe has the junior college year. Ronnie
James at Central Oklahoma lost in thequarterfinals to Tim Molitor. Southwest Minnesota State

(32:50):
ends up beating Molitor for a third, but that was a one one one
three. John Melling would won onetwo one and lost to Bubba Taylor Finley
and again was a three time champion, So we talked about that, that
intersection of champions. And of coursea couple back in the day Wamier from
wine on A State and men Roefrom Wayne State of Nebraska. So the
n AIA has a long, longwrestling history and craziness ensues in that division

(33:14):
as well. Just just a quickcouple of things about I mean, I
was looking at the names when wegetting ready to start the show, and
Hazewinkel, he's a fourth timer.His twin brother was also at Saint Cloud
State with him, and both ofthem were a couple of time Olympians.
And his brother Dave was an Olympicfinalist, silver medalist, and Dave sun

(33:36):
is a is an NC double Achamp in greco, and I was a
world He was an Olympian in freestyle, world teamer in greco. Actually,
but Sam sadly is has the hasthe three three three two distinction on his
college career. It was one ofthose things where I remember when he got
beat in the finals, it waslike I feel sad because Sam's a great

(33:57):
guy. So yeah, Hazewinkel family. And then of course the Hayes Winkles
are number of five. I thinkfive is the current count Olympians from Anoka
High School in Anoka, Minnesota,but fifteen minutes north of me right now.
So here's some numbers if you're watchingon the screen about the number of
freshman champions. Again, we've gotdiceiness when it comes to the extra eligibility
because the NAI wrestled the week beforeCOVID shut us down in twenty twenty,

(34:22):
so they actually had guys wrestle asfive time placers. Then the fun stuff.
This is where the trivia comes in. Glenn, I felt like I
taught to you one on this one. People know Chuck as the enigmatic guy
that he was. I never hada chance to meet him. But two
time national champ at Iowa State,then goes to Adams State, which was
in Alamosa, Colorado, wins twomore there, so he's a four time

(34:45):
champ split across divisions. Johnny Namoof Central Oklahoma uninterrupted four time champ at
Central Oklahoma, but the school reclassifiedin his years, so he was one
one, one one, but itwas three we're in the NAI, and
then when we're into division two hewon again and the soomy pozo is.
I thought there'd be more of these, actually, but he is the only

(35:06):
two times Junior college champ and twotime n AIA champ, and he did
it for for Nyack, North IowaArea Community College and Life University in Mariage
order here. I believe he isnow the new coach at Saint Thomas University
in Florida, if I'm not mistaken. So that's the three champs that are
four timers in combined division. Sobefore we get to the women's side of

(35:27):
things. That's the nuance to mehere is not just Chuck, but just
the school reclassifies. Now you haveto wait a couple of years. Usually
it's a two year weight from anAIA to Division two, I think,
but when you're moving from from Dtwo to D one, you've got like
a four year weight. So thesetype of things aren't really happening anymore.
But it's very unique that Chuck Jeanis the only D one n ai A

(35:50):
guy. So that's nutty. Actuallyit was university division could have happened before
the actual divisional structure. But peopleknow about Chuck Jean. Guys. I
know you guys know some some darystories. About this guy, and from
what I understand they're all true.May have led to why I ended up
at Adams State, but I couldhave. Now we're going to switch to

(36:15):
the women's side, Kevin. Letus know the four four four timers from
the women's wc WA. The firstis Maryland's own Hella Morales missus Missouri Baptist
and Simon Frasier and Victoria Anthony SimonFrasier, Emily Webster Oklahoma City, and

(36:35):
Caleb Miracle from Campbellsville and she russelledher dad. But all four of them
are. We're really fine. Artstill really fine. Of course Helen was
our first women's Olympic champion. Yeah, Webster undefeated one hundred eighteen and oh,
I believe it's the sixth longest streak. It's hey, I got it's

(36:57):
on my list. She's in thetop ten as far as long college wrestling
win streak. Is the only undefeatedwomen's champion in WCWA history. So we've
got that going for us. Nowthis is where we get to some again,
the crossover. Mikaela Hutchinson from whowas the first girl to win a
state title against the boys when shedid it as a sophomore I believe when
she was in high school in Alaska, and I think there's like fifty Hutchinson's

(37:22):
up there. There's not that many, but there's that's a big wrestling family
up there. One one, twoone. That loss was to maroule Us
in three periods, so the fourtimer and the eventual three timer cross pass.
Hillary Greening of Simon Frasier. Now, let's let's do a side now
on Simon Frasier. They started wrestlingin what was then known as the CIS,

(37:43):
which was the Canadian kind of NCAA. Then that's now called U Sport.
Well, when Simon Frasier reclassified saidhey, we're gonna go to the
NCAA, they already had a women'steam in place, so and they've had
women's college wrestling up there since theearly two thousands, So Simon Frasier wasn't
one of the first teams with it, but they've had a team a long
long time. So they've got thatthat structure built in with the men's and

(38:06):
women's wrestling in the clubs like theBurnaby Wrestling Club up there. Uh,
you know it's you know, you'vegot Abdu and Mike Jones was coaching there
for a while and Dave McKay hashad the club. So a lot of
good wrestling in British Columbia. Sothe structure for Simon Fraser when they came
in to the NCAA and became WCWAeligible and now their National Collegiate Women's Championships
eligible, they came in with credentialsright away. This isn't like they started

(38:29):
from scratch, but uh, youknow Greening with one, one, two
two, she was you know,one ninety one, and again her path
crossed with Brittany Delgado of Oklahoma City, who was a South Carolina native who
won a bunch of bunch of titleswhen the foundation of the women's Freestyle tournament
started in Fargo, and then MarsLambert of Virginia native when she was at
King. So it was like there'sthere's some near misses there, but Hutchinson

(38:52):
and marule Is hitting when they didin their their early years, that was
like, yeah, that was amassive, massive matchup with the w CBA.
You know, we got nine freshmanone titles that went on to become
four time All Americans. Uh,you know again on the screen here is
just the miscellaneous freshman champion information.Now we go to the other divisions,
the nc WC, which is theNCAA schools in their championships now as we

(39:15):
have a true split in our fourthyear, they've wrestled before COVID canceled the
season, so they were into February, I believe when in twenty twenty,
Emily Shilson's won her first three titlesat Augsburg here in Minnesota, then had
had a year of eligibility. Ithink she's still got another one. Actually
transferred down to McKendry along with SidneyKimber, another Alaska native who was a

(39:37):
four time champ and just actual truth, so they're they're the first four timers
in the NCAA era of not yetan NCAA championship. But Schilson's still undefeated,
by the way, so we don'tyet have I don't think her career's
done. She could go for anothertitle. She's also the only five time

(39:57):
women's collegiate champion because she also hadis a w c w A title when
she was a freshman, so she'sgot five titles. So we're in the
Gray Simons type of world of multipletitles. Yeah, Emily Shilson's got five
of them and counting, so shecould use that extra year, I believe.
So that's where we're at with theNCWC. I remember watching her at

(40:20):
the at the Nationals when she wasin high school because I remember, and
she's a six time Minnesota state champion. She's won one. She won far
tho six times two two could addfour juniors she six and she qualified three
times for the boys championship in Minnesota. But she's I'd love the counter where
she was like like sixty pounds.She was in my school district. Yeah,

(40:45):
she was in my school district orsenior year because Mounds Us I'm in
the Moundsview School district. She wentto mounts View High School her senior year.
So yeah, now moving forward,Glenn, this is where the uh,
the old timer back on the backwith D two and D three could
go. So this is where wherethat argument seems to get rekindled. Yes,
it's interesting to say that, Jason, because Kevin and I are old

(41:07):
timers, and I don't think esessiongoes by when we're in the suite when
someone doesn't say they need to includedivision two in division three again, Okay,
back in my day. So anyway, there have been six different wrestlers
who qualified via Division two that havewon nine NCUBAA Division one titles. Okay,

(41:30):
um, go ahead, Kevin,let us know who they are.
Well, it's Carlton hassel Riggs fromUniversity of Pennsylvania, Johnstown and three time
qualified, three time D one placingJesse Reyes CSB eighty four, Dan Questas
against CSB eighty one and eighty two, Joe Gonzalis John as a Veto again

(41:55):
all from CSB nineteen eighties, sothey had one heck of a program and
you know, bunches of nc DoubleA champions. And then Floyd Shorty Hitchcock
from Bloomsburgh nineteen seventy four at onehundred and seventy seven pound he also won
it. And Gonzalez and as Vadohave their record for best single season record

(42:17):
ever that year they're one and two. Isn't that correct, Jason? Uh?
Sounds about right. I don't thinkI have the record right in front
of me. I haven't look accessit's not fifty five and oh whatever it
is there would sound that sounds prettyaccurate because uh, you know, then
again we have to make sure what'sofficial and what's not you know if that

(42:37):
was on the books at the time, that that counts because we don't retroactively
take wins and losses away or ties. Uh yeah, that's a short subject
taking wins away. I think Jasongot back. I'd be there. I
haven't mentioned that topic. Um okay, um, Kevin, let us know

(42:59):
about the d the guys to qualifythrough D three and one D three it's
Ken Mallory from Montclair's State. Hewon it at one hundred and thirty four
pounds and seventy eight. I wasthere. It was a college park and
Tom Martucci, Uh I what isthat Trenton? That was what what was

(43:19):
known as Trenton State now known asthe College of New Jersey. So,
okay, nineteen eighty one, onehundred ninety pounder and that was in Princeton
Street right down the street. TCNJis in technically in Ewing. So yeah,
that's what maybe ten minutes if that, depending on ten minutes and which
which jump handles. I was atboth of those tournaments as a young kid,

(43:44):
so I just SAWT Division three kidswon all the time. Yeah,
I mean they were were they bothcut him obviously had really good careers at
the one I then we get intoa little bit the more fun stuff I've
listened to. Here we don't needto name, and you guys can look
at it. It's the conference atthe school is in right now. Who

(44:07):
the best wrestler, meaning the oneand one of the most titles from that
conference? Okay, And for example, like you see there the American A
flighting and the Sun Belt, nobodyfrom that school. There's every one conference,
so you have all the different UMschools there, the ones that have

(44:28):
FBS schools, and then FCS schoolsare next, and of course they've won
less titles all those divisions I addon our sheet here I do have UM.
I didn't. I blanked on theschool, but I did put Nick
Gallow in there for the CIA becauseHofstra is in the CIA currently, So
I don't want to forget that.Thank you for that, Thank you for

(44:50):
that. And t J. Jaworskiwas a three timer from UNC, but
he started his career at Oaky State. Yep, he did hanksperd out after
his freshman year. So we keepgoing, we get to slide forty three
again. This is this is thisis the cool stuff because what I like
what Glenn did here is applying theall sports focus to wrestling, because a

(45:12):
lot of our wrestling fans will justface, oh, well they're Big twelve
school like looking at like the affiliatesfor example. Well, no, they're
just in the Big twelve for wrestling. And this is the all sportstructor.
This is what when we talk aboutmultimedia rights things and conference restructuring, these
are the names of the conferences thatare moving the needle in terms of where
teams are going. The IWA isn'tisn't dictating on which which basketball schools are

(45:36):
shifting conferences. It's the basketball andfootball all sports conferences that are shifting where
the non revenue and Olympic sports aregoing. So I like what you did
here, Glenn, especially putting thecurrent spin on what we've gotten. By
the way, yes, the CIAhas a new name. It is no
longer the Colonial is now the Coastal. So yeah, that was as of

(45:57):
this week. By the way,Campbell is back is in the Sea as
an all sports member. Now,when I was coming through it at that
school in Norfolk, they were amember for wrestling. Oddly enough, Aswell's
Virginia Tech. At one point butwe got a lot of stuff here.
Now, the note that that Glenn'sgot it on top of the screen if
you're listing, is Stephen Neil wonthree Super Bowls and he went to a
school that didn't have football. Sothat's a unique one for you at ats

(46:22):
biggest field. And here's here's anotherthing here, guys. Uh, it's
is really um very wrestling specific.Is the peas Act, which is a
Division two conference. Now, manyof these schools wrestle Division one level.
However, they have six or sevenmultiple champions. Okay, and when I

(46:45):
say we're seven Carlton Houstle Reek School, is you Pitt Johnstown isn't the Peasack
now, but they were not inthe Peasack when he won his titles.
Okay. So it's just a it'sreally a list of the who's who wrestling,
Gray Shiman's, Carlin Hastle, rigRicky Bnomo, Corey Cole, Lot,

(47:05):
Kurt Angle, Jack Couvo, andof course Wade Challenge. Um.
You know, you you could makean argument who's the greatest one eighteen slash
one twenty five pounder ever? Andyou've really got to start with Gray Shiman's
and Ricky Benomo, I mean,and not far after that, Jack Couvo.
As far as your p Sex stuff, Yeah, we've got some some
interesting notes here because again ea Strousburgeris back now they reclassified back to Division

(47:31):
two. Pitt Johnstown has always beenDivision two. But we've got a lot
of Caving Clarion, Bloomsberg and Edinburgh, and oddly enough, we've got the
names of those schools are are whatthey are. But like we've got the
penn West stuff going on with thePennsylvania's state school system. Slippery Rock had
wrestling for quite a while as aDivision one school. There are some rumblings

(47:52):
that they could be moving back.I know it's a it's it's a it's
a money thing to bring wrestling backto the Rock. But this is where
we stand with with that, because, yeah, look at all the titles
won by the Peace Act detail ifyou count Carlin Hassel twenty eight if you
don't, okay, and then let'stalk about one of the premier Power five

(48:13):
conferences, the Pact twelve. They'veonly won twenty titles compared to how many
of the Peace Sack of one.It just it shows a regionality there with
wrestling. Okay, Kevin Haiger,let us know about people that have won
men's D one titles for multiple schools. There's two people and one. The

(48:36):
first on the list is Nixt Siriano, who wanted at Rutgers and then wanted
at Michigan, and he started hiscareer at Penn State. So and then
Steve Mako wanted Iowa and then OklahomaState and his son Michael just look something
big, guys. Siriano was atwenty five thirty three and Michael was a

(48:58):
was a heavyweight. And his sonMichael just did something Steve never did in
Fargo, went a Greco medal becauseSteve didn't wrestle Greco, he was all
freestyle. But Michael Maco was wasa double champ this year. Son.
The throw in there for our recencycoming off of Fargo, and then the
Moco name, and that's because youcame through a foot sweep in Greco.

(49:20):
He did a wicked one in freestylethough, yeah he had a great foot
sweep. And here's another little thingthat the family were the most titles the
periods one nine. The Smiths wonseven. Both of those families, that's
a mouthful. As many titles asthose families won. Okay, you almost
have to get because that was onegeneration the periods was dad and two sons.

(49:45):
I don't know, yep, it'sstill a family. Yeah, okay,
Now here's a little bit of fun. Uh who were the best NFL
players? Where did they place inwrestling? Called the Hustle Rig Okay,
as we know, won six titlesthree Division two, three Division one,

(50:06):
Stephen Neil one two, then LorenzoO'Neil okay play seventh. Interesting thing here
he was the first person to losethe old thirty second tiebreaker in the NC
double as he lost to John Morrisof Lehigh. That's a name we'll here
about a little bit more later,by the way. Yes, okay,

(50:28):
so the next thing ise guys,but I think you got to go back
for that. And just the prettycool thing was Hasseriing and Neil ended up
playing the NFL and either of themhead football in college. Yeah, exactly,
exactly really interesting. Yeah. Sothen we go to the WWE situation.

(50:53):
I Gabel Stevenson is even all theyoung guys no have won two titles,
Kurt Angle one two, brock Lesnarone one, and interesting enough,
Kurt Angle lost to John Morris atthe Junior Nostals back in the old days
when they were Cedar Falls, Iowa. And I got a funny story for
you guys about this. John Morriswalks in the Green Leaf one time with

(51:15):
his wife about twenty years after highschool, and I look at him and
say, real loud, that guybeat Kurt Angle, Okay, and he
turns or his wife goes, Itold you I beat him. Even John's
wife of like fifteen years at thetime would not believe that he could have
beaten that monster Kurt Angle. Well, and who did Lesnar lose to his

(51:38):
junior year in college, Stephen Neil. Stephen Neil. So there's a little
bit tie between those two and anothertie. To bring it back to our
other programs, with our other episodesthat are about new programs, Brock went
to Bismarck State Junior College, whichrecently announced that we're bringing wrestling back.
Brock wrestled the very last match inschool history they were dropping the program.

(52:02):
He won the Junior College Nationals thatyear at heavyweight and the last match in
school history until they're going to bringit back. So, uh, you
know, we got all sorts ofthings time the Matt Stats shows together.
Yeah, okay, then we're gonnahave a little more fun here in Matt
Stats. Uh. The three highschools at the Matt Stats guys went to
we named the best people ever.My alma mater, Penn Charter, doctor

(52:25):
Billy Stewart was an NC double Achamp for Lehi. Kevin Houser's alma mater,
Madison At Tony Bennett, not thesinger, the wrestler who came in
six And of course I think theshow almost is about John Morris. Jason
Bryant's high school pacas and John Morriscame in sixth. Seems to be his

(52:45):
show here. Yeah, we've hada ton of ton of Fargo All Americans
and Cedar Falls, you know,a ton of a ton of We've had
four time champs. I've had wrestlersgo, but John Morris is the only
Division one All American for the BullIsland. So we've had several in the
show, most recently Patrick McCormick,the grandson of one Pat McCormick and son

(53:06):
of Mike McCormick. He wrestled twicethere for the University of Virginia. So
each year at the Nationals, Igot to introduce patch. So that was
one of those cool things where,you know, one year he was wrestling
Keys and Terrakina, who was fromHawaii, and it was just so interesting
fitting to tie this into the pocostingstory that Terrakina and McCormick were from the

(53:27):
two furthest places geographically than any wrestlerin the tournament that met. So there's
like four and four five thousand milesbetween them. And of course that nugget
gets thrown out in Round one ofthe NCAA Championships. So yeah, whenever
there's a Bull Island reference, youknow, you know, we're on top
of that. Yeah, so Ido appreciate the big John Morris references.

(53:50):
Yeah, he made the semifinals atJunior Nationals that year, he lost to
Mitico from Virginia Beach, And therewas that the motico that was the last
coach at women Marry was that hisbrother was. Okay, he wasn't the
last coach. We had people afterJohn, but he basically was the last
coach of anything but Joy Jackson.The Motico reference, there was the black

(54:12):
singlets from Kellum. Correct, yougot died, right, Okay, Well
we can touch on that later,we're not talking about that school in Williamsburg.
Oh, here's the fun stuff.Of course, the women marriage love
train contain. Actually we are talkingabout that earth now he said this.
Okay, we said some stuff hereabout the person of wrestled who did the

(54:32):
best for any like person of thiscategory, that creategory division conference, et
cetera. I gotta throw something inhere in case anybody doesn't know this name.
Of course, the people in thisshow know the name, and everyone
at William and Mary does. BuzzWinchessky, who was an ei WA champ,
a three time qualifier wrestl at theUniversity of Tennessee and William and Mary.

(54:53):
Okay, he is being inducted tothe NASA Inventors Hall of He has
at least twenty patents, it couldbe more. I have no idea what
these patents are in because it's wayover all our heads. But I wanted
to give a shout out to Buzzy. Congratulations and let me guys, let
me tell you guys a special storytoo about Buzz. Okay. I was

(55:15):
lucky enough to be a friend ofBuzz and one of Buzz's coaches, and
we found him when he transferred outof Tennessee. I called Gray Simons and
Gray said, yeah, Buzz isthe best freshman we got and he's definitely
the smartest kid we've ever had heretoo. Okay, here's my favorite story
about Buzz, Kathy Wijesski, Claireand Louis. I was in the worst

(55:39):
place of my life in two eleven, and I don't have many memories of
it, but I have a distinctmemory of the Winchesski family coming in and
Buzz and Kathy and their children reallyhelped me through a dark place and it
means a lot to me. TheBuzz is getting recognition, and I wanted
to give him a special congratulations fromsomething he did to me that was much

(56:05):
more important than anything he did onthe map. So thanks a lot,
Buzz. I love you, Ilove you Kathy and your family, And
congratulations for an underwell deserved and arunner up in that category. Is pretty
well known himself, Neil de GrassDyson to as a astrophysicist and and he's

(56:27):
a really renowned popularizer of astrophysics.Neil has made science cool again. Yeah,
or maybe he just made it coolbecause there wasn't a whole like people.
You know, He's got the StarTalk podcast. He's it's the Hayden
Planetarium. He's incredibly hard to trackdown. I've been trying to get him
on my show for years and nobodyreturns freaking phone calls or emails from that

(56:51):
place. So if, hey,if by chance you're listening, you're probably
not. Yeah, give me acall. Trying to get John show.
All right, okay, more asalways, as always, we're gonna shum
it up. And this is KevinZo thing instead of Matt Cliff's notes were
calling him Matt Kevin's notes. Kevinreview this show for us? Okay,

(57:14):
buzzless Teskey is wrestling most accomplished scientistswith minny pattents and a twenty twenty three
induction to the NASA Inventors Hall ofFame. What's better more's championships or individual
records? Russell had eleven, Chamberlainhad two, Barrett ten, William zero.
How have you picked which was thebest player? I think the two

(57:37):
rules two schools have thought on that. I wanted to emphasize that Kevin was
not and where you're married with Rashithe wrestler, But the only thing Kevin
does know about Rashi's pitching is hecould never hit it. There are even
now probably I think he passed awaytwelve years ago and I still couldn't hit

(58:00):
his. Case in point, thereare fifty six three and four time ncuble
A Men's D one's champion. Arethey all better than Gable with two?
Maybe not five? Nc nc doubleA D one and D two both have
four five four time champs. Dthree has two, is D two is

(58:21):
D three tougher. I should sayD three, um number six, was
Yogi better, a better baseball playeror philosopher. There's a lot of contention
about that. There are over adozen NFL players that were college All Americans.
Two are in the Wrestling Hall ofFame, Neil and Hassle Ring.

(58:43):
Plenty of WWE ret guys wrestled incollege to stand out less Nor for his
size and charisma, and Neil forhis two ncable A D one's titles and
an Olympic gold. But yeah,the small school nc double A D two
Esach has won twenty eight or thirtyone Men's NCAA D one titles in three

(59:06):
outstanding wrestlers, which is pretty incredible. And they're already two for two four
time nc wc women's wrestling champions EmilyShilson and Sidney Kimber. Okay, guys,
now, thank you guys for listeningto this. Hope to see many
of you at the convention here thisweekend. Jason, I will be there

(59:30):
next month show. It's going tobe a breaking down what colleges, the
Olympians and World team members come from. This will be for both men and
women, and that show will beWednesday, August sixteenth, twenty twenty three,
three pm Easter daylight time. Kevinand Jason, do you have anything
else to say? Now? I'mjust looking for another trip to convention and

(59:53):
see what we can do to comeup with more content and more geeky Matt
stats for you, because weegeek aton this. Looking forward to hearing about
your your trip to the convention.Okay. For my fellow co host Jason
Bryant, Kevin Hazzard, I'm GlennGormley. See it at the convention.

(01:00:38):
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Do You Know, Do You Know, Do You Know ... college's four-time champions? - Mat Stats 22

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Do You Know, Do You Know, Do You Know ... college's four-time champions? - Mat Stats 22