Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Stay a Wile, the podcast that's virtual soul
food for your ears. I am your host, Tommy Vincent,
and each week we break bread with gold passionate women
who have faced the impossible and are still standing to
share their testimonies. Make yourself at home and Stay a Wile.
(00:22):
Hey everyone, it's Tommy Vincent, your host of Stale Wild podcast.
In joining us today at the Stale Wild Table, we
have Charise Kimbro. Charise is a mission driven leader currently
serving as the program officer at the All State Foundation.
Charise is also an author and we could not be
(00:44):
more delighted to have her at the table. I am
looking forward to our conversation Cherise, and thank you so
much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Thank you so much for having me. It's really an
honor and a privilege for me to be here today.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
So I'm really excited to So before we get down
into our conversation, I have a simple question for you.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Who is Charis Kimbro.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Charis Kimbro is a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend,
a leader, a sensitive soul and a big heart.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Okay, so you went into a lot of what Charis does,
like the roles that plays yes, which we do. That
is very common as women. We put those things forward
because we often serve in so many capacities for so
many different people. But if we were to take all
(01:42):
of that away, we know you're a sensitive soul who
is charises.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
It's an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I mean, it's an interesting way to think about oneself, right,
because we do think about it in these roles, and
I think when I think about myself, it's in the
context of relation to those roles. But I think who
I am as a person, I really do feel like
my sensitivity is a big part of who I am
as a person. I'm a thoughtful, creative person who is
(02:11):
really driven from like a heart centric place, and that's
kind of been a motivator for me and how I
have guided my career, how I've guided my relationships, how
I approach the world. And so I would say I'm
a woman with a big heart with great integrity. I
(02:32):
try to operate in and I try to always operate
in a spirit of excellence. So I think those are
the things I think that make me me and a
creativity I think is in thoughtfulness are also big components
I think of who I am.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
When I was just doing some of my research on you,
and one of the things.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
That I thought was really cool and also just a.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Great fact about you is how you published your first
book with the help help of your mother at the
age of seven years old, your book of poetry the
best of me.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, you got.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
He wasn't playing you had died.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, I I was curious about I was curious.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
About your book that you have, the novel that you
wrote Beyond the Broken, And so in that process of
learning more about that book, I saw that fact about you,
and I thought, at seven years old, being able to
recognize this point of creativity within you and the ability
(03:39):
to use words to tell stories, to paint pictures, it's
pretty fascinating to me. I think about now, I don't
have seven year old children. All my children are grown,
but I have grandchildren. And just for your mom to
be that insightful and that encouraging to say, no, you
know what, we're going to take this book and we're
going to publish it. I know that was a while ago,
(04:02):
but do you remember what that felt like, having a
book published at seven years old?
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I mean it was really interesting, Tommy, because the poetry,
like you know, so many things The poetry came really
out of a time in my little seven year old
life that was really full of a lot of pain.
My parents had gotten divorced when I was seven, and
so writing really became my refuge and that was really
my safe place, and so that was my outlet and
(04:29):
my expression. I did poetry, I used to write plays,
I used to write stories. And so I think for me,
I remember feeling like this was an affirmation of this
gift that I had in terms of even, like you said,
having the sense or the wherewithal of the idea to
start writing these poems, and that she kind of took
what was a painful thing and made it into something beautiful. Right,
(04:53):
So she took the pain that was coming out in
the poetry that I was writing and then packaged it
and then had it public and remember we had a
book party at my house and kind of signing books
for people and a little dress and but so it
was really like a very powerful affirmation I think of
my gift at that age and just feeling like, oh, wow,
(05:13):
like this is not a bad thing, you know. I
think I associated it in some ways with a lot
of hurt and pain, and so to kind of you know,
taking making like, you know, lemonade out of lemon so
to speak. I think that's kind of really what what
I felt, what it felt like to me at that age.
So it was pretty you know, unusual, I think, and
(05:34):
just special and just kind of they're really affirmational, like
I said, for my mom to do that for me
way back then.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I agree that it had to be powerful and leave
such a lasting memory for yourself. And then your book,
your fictional novel, Beyond the Broken. It tells the story
of five women who don't get the life that they
plan for, and that made me think about my own
(06:04):
life and a lot of the other women that I
am in relationship with. How we have these plans for life,
and life, you know, has a lot of twisting turns,
and so sometimes those plans don't turn out the.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Way that we hope they would.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And your time of living, when your plans don't go
as you plan, how do you continue to forge ahead
and make the take those lemons and create lemonade?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, and I think you know that's where the title
comes from, Beyond the Broken, like the broken dreams, the
broken promises, the broken hopes, and how do you live
beyond that and what lies beyond that for people, And
I think there's just I think for me, tell me,
just an internal fortitude and tenacity to keep going. I
have a strong faith life, and that also keeps me
(07:04):
going even in times I don't know how I've been
able to keep going. I somehow still managed to still
be here, you know, after going through lots of different,
like really difficult and traumatic experiences. And I think there's
just a sense around just not giving up, just like
giving up isn't really an option, and so you just
kind of taking like the next step and one more step,
and one more step, and really kind of approaching it
(07:26):
on a daily basis, sometimes an hourly basi, sometimes a
minute by minute basis. But there is a opportunity also
always when things don't go as planned, to have a
hope for a better plan, have a hope for a
different plan, have a hope for finding the goodness out
of even really bad bad things. And even though not
(07:47):
to do like a toxic positivity kind of spread over
difficult things. But I think there are ways in which
you can look back in different moments and see how
you've grown as a person as a result of the
things you've gone through you can see how you know,
you've gotten strong, we've gotten wise, you've gotten better. And
even for those things, sometimes we can't explain some things.
(08:08):
We can't explain why they turn out the way they do,
and they and they are so hurtful and so terrible
and so painful that there is no kind of tidy
bow to put on it. But there is I think
also value in being able to navigate and live in
that grade space when you don't know why things have happened.
They've been maybe some really horrible things, but yet you
are still standing. And so then it's an opportunity, I think,
(08:28):
to turn inward and really explore, well, why am I
still here? What is there yet left for me to
do that I've kind of endured all that and I'm
still kind of in my right mind and my right
healthy body, like, Okay, this must be for a reason.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
And then you know, kind of trying to find some
meaning in that.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And I do think also just having the opportunity to
share with others and to help and assist other people
who may be going through the same thing or who
will go through the same thing, it's another real catalyst
for me because I feel like I didn't go through
all that just for myself, for all of them go
through all that just for nothing. So if I can
help somebody else by telling my story right them understanding
kind of what my journey has been, then that's for
(09:06):
the benefit as well. So I think, you know, those
are some of the things and tools and strategies I
think about when I'm kind of managing through, you know,
a life that is very different than what I've planned.
So it's fictional in the book, but it's also, like
you said, very real. Different areas of my life, very real,
and a lot of women that I know that you know,
we have these you know, kind of laid out schedules
and plans for our lives and then either at different
(09:27):
points along the way, it doesn't work out the way
we planned, either by us not being able to attain
those things we thought we wanted, or by the thing
getting the things we thought we wanted and then having
them not be as satisfying or the end all be
all that we thought they would be, you know, to
our lives. And then how do we kind of wrestle
in that disconnection.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
So the part about you know, when we these spaces
in life where we feel like we're broken. And I
know for.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Myself, you know, I've had some moments in my life
that I literally felt like I was broken, And as
I got older, what I was able to see was
how those circumstances, how those hard experiences really did help
(10:16):
me to become the woman I am today. And so
I recognized that in those broken pieces now give me
something to offer to share. It's those pieces that I
can offer up to other women and as they're navigating
life and having their own experiences, that I'm able to
contribute by sharing my story and not that I was
(10:41):
able to navigate it the right way or my way
is the way. It's just I believe important for other
people to understand you're not the only one and that you.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Two can make it.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You know, and you're making it made look different than
my making it. However, I'm still standing and I'm using
those circumstances. I'm using those moments in my life to
really allow me to be the woman that I am today.
So the title of the book, I'm like, Okay, now
(11:16):
I got to get the book because it's one of
those things where when you have an opportunity to look
into the lives of other women, especially, it allows for you.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
To see yourself.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
While our stories may be different, we do have a
lot of similar experiences and it is always helpful, especially
if you didn't come from a family where there were
other women, older women, more seasoned women sharing life. Having
the opportunity to get those stories from other women is
(11:55):
really critical for me, especially in this season of my life,
because I didn't get that where I had a lot
of older women sharing with me their experiences.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, a time, I definitely agree with that, and I
think you know, for me when I wrote the book,
one of the reasons I wrote it and it is
you know, people, I say, who is it in your life?
And you know who are you? But it is fictional,
but of course you draw upon your own real life experiences.
But also I really wanted to say and depict some
of those things that when I wrote it. It's been
a while that it's been out over ten years, but
(12:28):
that it's the things that we don't talk about, the
things that sometimes aren't shared, those hard experiences that sometimes
people don't feel comfortable sharing because for that very reason,
like you mentioned, I don't want I didn't want people
and women to feel like they were alone in their feelings.
You know, this book talks about how hard motherhood can
be for some women. It talks about infidelity, It talks
about you know, infertility, It talks about a lot of
(12:51):
real life things that a lot of people go through,
but we go through in silence, We go through in solitude,
And I think that is really what it is so
difficult and so important. Like you said about the sharing,
you know, in terms of sharing your story helps set
somebody else free, It helps show, like you said, somebody
else you can do it too. If I'm here, you
can be here. And it may look different the past
(13:12):
may not be like the same exact steps, but just
by example and by sharing. But I think that's and
I think it's it's a little bit you know better
now that people feel more comfortable in some ways, but
there still is so much you know, shame and someone's guardedness.
It sometimes still is pervasive among women, especially you know,
in the black community too.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I feel like.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Particularly sometimes there's certain things we just don't talk about,
certain things we still just don't say. And I think
we have to say those things so we can free
ourselves and then free somebody else.
Speaker 4 (13:42):
And I think that is the.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Rule as I've gotten older too, to really try to
share and use my experiences so other people and younger
folks don't have to go through the same things I
went through because I've gone through them, you know. And
so I think that's really important to have that multi
generational and I think a lot of us don't have
you know, didn't grow up around and environments with women
where things were shared. I mean, we certainly know that
people had experiences, but I don't necessarily know the all
(14:05):
of what those experiences were, right, And so I see
the evidence of them having endured what I know was
not an easy life just from the factory of times
in which they lived, but like the mechanics and details
around that sometimes aren't always passed down from generation to generation.
So I think it's a really important, really important thing.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
You have extensive experience, and as a mission driven leader,
can you help us understand what is a mission driven leader?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And how does that show up in your work?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
For me, what is most important has always been in
whatever role I was in, what was the reason, what
was the why was the mission? And so whether I
was in corporate America, whether I was in public service,
whether I was in philanthropy. That's why that mission was
always the thing that drove me. And so knowing that
really helps me to frame the decisions that I made,
(14:59):
the the way that I manage.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
The team, the way that I lead work.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Because I'm always focused on and always come back to
the why. I always come back to what that mission is.
And I think when I've been in organizations where the
mission was ultimately to make money, I was like, Okay,
this doesn't really align with what my mission is, what
my personal values are, so then I'm going to have
to shift to someplace where the mission was something different.
So that is kind of what guided me along my
(15:24):
career path, really working to be in spaces where I
can help people, I can make a difference in people's lives,
where I could do work that had an impact, that
was always very very important to me. So my path
has kind of taken me in lots of different directions
to try to achieve that in different spaces, and I
(15:44):
think where I've landed, you know, it took a while.
Like it's the path, everybody's path and route is different,
and I think when you are very focused in that
way around kind of impacting people, changing lives and helping people.
It's not always a straightforward I think the path the
public service was one that did help. That's kind of
more of a systems level. But then there's other work
(16:06):
that I've done that was more like a direct kind
of person to person service.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
And then now you know I'm.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Able to you know, direct resources and invest in organizations
that really help. You know, I know I'm saving lives
every day in the work that I do because I
work in the domestic violent space, investing organizations that work
in those spaces and partnering with those organizations that I know,
and I've seen the impact up close and I've experienced it,
and so I just I'm grateful that I'm in this
(16:35):
place now. I can be really connected to the why
and the work are really close in. I don't have
to like take a couple steps to get there. It's
like it's right there together, which is a great kind
of place for me to be at to land.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
So it's a really good fit for me as a leader.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
You talked about how.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
There were opportunities that you've had along your journey where
the values didn't line up with your values one. What
are those values and how did you become so sure
that this is what I stand for. And so if
this isn't present, this is a no for me.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
My values really are you know, integrity is very important
to me, being without sounding corny, like a good person,
like being on the like on the people's side, caring
about people. You know that people really matter, and I
think that people matter more than profit, people matter more than.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Deliverables.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
That and that's also I think for me, being like
a mission driven leader or a heart centered leader, it's
really about the people for me. And so when I
was ever doing work that was really more disconnected from people,
that made it hard for me. And so wherever I
could make it about the people, I tried to always
kind of make it about the people. But sometimes it
just wasn't And that's okay, that just didn't line up
(17:57):
for me with what I wanted to do and what
life because that's what really drove me. And so I've
always really tried to be in spaces where the people
mattered and where people and so then when I kind of,
like I said, quickly found that no that you know,
that wasn't the case. There wasn't so forward in the
thinking or the or the philosophy or the mission of
(18:18):
the organization.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Then it's like, Okay, I need to do something.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And it sometimes can manifest also in the way that
people in the organization are treated to, not only kind
of what the business or the work of the organization,
but how even people within the organization are treated to,
because I think sometimes organizations can of spouse a certain
or particular value, but then that value isn't embodied within
itself and so then that's a problem too, right, So
(18:40):
you always want to make sure there's.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
A linement between what you say you do, who you
say you are, and who you actually are as an organization.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
So you and I have cross paths in the space
of domestic violence with your work with the National Domestic
Violence Hotline. You also do are a part of the
work with a friend of mine, Tony Porter, with a
Call to Men. So you are very intentional about showing
(19:10):
up and really and when I say you, I know
that you're with the All State Foundation, but you are
able to make the relationships and to really be able
to convey why this work is so important, Why is
this space so important for you to have the All
(19:31):
State Foundations show up and do the life saving work,
like you talked about, to make sure that we are
creating spaces where we are attributing to healthy relationships and
putting an end to domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
For me, domestic violence and the issue has always been
something that's been really close to me in my own
life and experience, And I think that when I think
about how pervasive it is and how widespread it is,
and still how it's kind of a hidden thing. It's
something again that people don't always talk about. It's something
(20:09):
people don't want to talk about. It's something that people
look like to ignore, would like to think is private,
but yet it kind of permeates every facet of life.
I mean, it impacts workplaces, it impacts homelessness, domestic violence
impacts community violence, It impacts so many different spaces.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
So I think it's just critical.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Really that we kind of bring it out of the shadows,
bring it into the light, and really empower those organizations
that are doing the such good work helping survivors on
the frontline saving those lives. But also the ripple effect,
right that you know, a lot of people who grow
up in households where there was abuse often go on
to become abusers themselves. Are cause harm with other people.
(20:50):
We know about the economic impact of domestic violence on survivors,
and that has long term rippling effects. There's a high
percentage of folks correlation between those who perpetrate community violence
and those who experienced domestic violence. So there's just so
many layers. And then the harm you know, to the
women themselves. Oftener kids or men also are impacted who
(21:12):
experience domestic violence as well. So it's just so pervasive
and it's just been so hidden. So I just really
think it's important to be out front and really vocal
about one raising awareness about the issues because people can't
fix what they don't know, and kind of expanding people's
understanding about what constitutes abuse because people still often think
of it as just like a bruise broke, you know,
(21:33):
a bruise broke, a black eye, a broken limb. But
it's so much more than that. It's emotional abuse, psychological abuse,
financial abuse, tech abuse. There's so many different ways that
it can manifest. So it's important to just continue to
raise awareness about all the different kinds of domestic violence
so then we can all work together to try to
end it right. And it involves everybody. It involves not
(21:54):
just women. It also involves men to come with us
and join us in the efforts to to end domestic
violence and take accountability, but also do it in a
loving way.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
It helps us, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It requires us to educate young people, like you said,
about healthy relationships at a young age, so they don't
get into relationships that are damaging as they get older,
and they can identify, you know, those different components.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
So yeah, it's just so pervasive but so fixable.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
I feel like, even though it's been around for a
long time, it seems kind of like an intractable problem.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
But I just believe that people.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Once they know about it and learn about it and
learn how to support people in it, right, because some
of it is too You may not be experiencing it,
but if it's one in four women, then we know,
we all know somebody who has, and then how do
we support that other woman, you know? And so I
think that's all just so important. So I'm excited and
I really feel fortunate to be able to be in
this space and do this work, and like you said,
(22:49):
to do the life saving work, you.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Know, So the work itself when you're getting all of
the information and learning the statistics and that there's so
much to be still to be done. Right, we're making progress,
and to me that that piece of it has to
always be celebrated and we always have to keep that
in the forefront because we can't get weary and doing well.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
We got to keep going.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Because every step forward is a step in its progress.
It's also heavy work and so you get a lot
of information.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
You hear a lot of stories. How do you.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Stay committed to the work and also take care of
yourself so that it doesn't the weight doesn't become unbearable.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think it's an
important question for everybody in this work right, and I'm
a stepper to remove from the direct direct line folks
that are on the front lines doing things, those advocates
that are day and day out hearing it.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
And I think for me it is a balance of holding.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Because hearing those stories and being rooted in the survivor
experience is really important. I think to have a trauma
informed lens and as I make decisions, so I'm often
it will be in meetings and I will bring make
sure I bring a survivor of voice into the room
or always bring forth a statistic or just to ground
people and why we're doing what we're doing, even though
it is hard to hear. But I also always tell people,
(24:19):
but imagine how much harder it is to live through.
So we are just hearing it. Someone has lived through this, right,
So and I'm learning, still growing in taking care of myself.
Taking time away doing restorative things, and some restorative practices
that I do regularly, like yoga and exercise is really
important to me. Taking time away from work is one
(24:40):
that I'm really growing, growing into because there is so
much work to be done right, and learning how to
say no to some things because you do feel like, oh,
this is a really good thing. I really should go here,
I really should go do that, but I can't. I'm
only one person. I can't be everywhere. I do have
support in that at work, where you know people will say, okay, sure,
he's you're doing like too much, You're doing a lot
and so, but it's hard because the work is so
(25:03):
it's so important and so compelling, I feel like it's
hard to say no to.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
So I'm still learning that.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Honestly, I'm growing in that, but it's something that and
even self care things like getting massages and things, and
I've learned those from a lot of my partners, a
lot of my nonprofit partners have really helped to influence
me and impact me around doing these things regularly, right, Like,
you can't just be a one off thing, and it
can't be once you get to the point where you're
(25:29):
feeling burned out.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I mean, it's good to do it whenever.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
But optimally it would be so you don't get to
that point.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
So doing things all along the.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Way and just and really just making sure that you
are kind of having the download times and the times
you can just relax and.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Be still are very important.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
And also just always I try to time to always
be grounded and like the gratitude when a survivor shares
a story when I just really like recognize and holding
that space sick for him or her because I know
what that means. And so that also helps me to like,
it is a heavy story for me to hear, but again,
(26:08):
they lived it, they experienced it, so how much more
heavy is it for them to carry and they are
able to share, And what a gift that is for
all of us. Like you said, back to the original
point about the broken pieces and offering them.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
To help others.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And I know I've done enough of this work to
know that whenever somebody shares a story, there are always multiple,
multiple people that are impacted, that see something they didn't see,
or understand something they didn't understand, or feel encouraged to
go forward. And that's really kind of what it's what
it's all about. But the self care piece is really
really important, and I'm growing into that.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
You know, where I am most impacted is in my parenting,
one as a survivor myself. And then you know, just
with the information that I've acquired over the years, sometimes
I show up in my parenting unfairly because my lens
(27:01):
is hypersensitive that I don't I'm not taking into account
of just young people growing up, young people learning life
and navigating life. And so I find myself sometimes like
you need to telling myself, you need to chill out, Like, yes,
I want to be strong in my convictions and I
(27:21):
want them to have those same types of convictions, but
I also have to just be mindful that there's a
process that we all go through in life of growing
up that's normal, that you know, it's not anything.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
You know, it's nothing the fairy is taking place here.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
This is just a young lady being a young lady,
or young man being a young man. And I have
to always just remind myself of that. As the more
entrenched I get into the work, I just have to
just kind of remember, like some times I just need
to chill out. That's the pottom, that's the bottom line.
As a mom, I'm just like, Okay, calm down.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
My son just said the same thing to me the
other day. He's like, you know, sometimes Mom, you make
things worse because she gets to upset and get so
worked up about things and you and I was like, really,
but it's like I can see the whole thing, and
like you said, a lot of it is just like
he's like, Mom, it's just like it's not that big
of it. Do you make everything such a big deal?
And so I was like, wow, okay, like you said,
since you know, relax, I don't have to say that
(28:29):
to me because I had a noois and they say, Mom,
just relaxed, just relax.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
But I do realize that.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Sometimes I do need to just relax and understand that,
you know, they have the tools to navigate through situations,
and like.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
You said, as a part of this growing up.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
There's a there's a maturation process that is just natural
that takes its own time and its own path, and
we can't always you know, hurry that along, but it does.
I mean, I definitely have seen that influence. Oh the
more I've stayed in this work because before this, I
worked in Illinois for this Illinois Turning General, I led
the crime Victim Services division there and so we saw
(29:04):
a lot of you know, and I would I think
my sensitivity to it, like you said, over time has
gotten has increased my kind of you know, lack of chill.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
But I'm trying to is a.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Self care thing too, right, because if we're worked out,
worked up, you know, we're hearing these stories and we're parenting,
and we have that same kind of intensity that's not
good and beneficial. And I don't want to be in
a space of always being an overwhelmed you know, based
on everything that I'm hearing and doing. So I am
really trying to learn how to just like read and
kind of be more in the moment and just really
(29:37):
kind of just do and be surrounded by more things
that bring me joy and light and laughter. And but
it's it is it's an intentionality that you have to
bring to it. I fi that it doesn't just automatically
come that you really do have to work at it,
which seems a little bit counterintuitive, but I think you
really do.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, that's the challenge of getting knowing a lot of
information on any subject matter, Like that information now is
the lens in which you're filtering things through.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
And that's the part where.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
It's like you gotta Yeah, that information is great, but
it's not good for every situation. It shouldn't be the
lens of everything. And how I'm navigating my life as
a wife, a mother, a friend. It's like, you know,
it's like when do you put that hat on? When
do you take it off and just be present with
(30:32):
the people that you love and you care about. And
that speaking to that space where you're talking about, like,
if we're constantly revved up on this issue and we
don't have our process for stepping away, then it could
become a bit toxic for our own personal wellbeing because
(30:56):
we're not releasing it. It's like being able to pick
it up and put it down. Pick it up and
put it down, And that doesn't mean that we're not
holding space for the people or the issues that matter
to us is that we have put a regulator in
place so that we can make sure that we are
taking care of ourselves in the process as well.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That is so important that picking it up and putting
it down, and even like with like the start of
work and I work fully remotely and being able to
have those boundaries about Okay, I'm not gonna wake up
first thing in the morning and get on the email.
I'm not gonna late in the night and just really
quickly answer this. And I think that's all a part
of creating space, like you said, and creating time to
(31:41):
put it down and leave it down and then pick
it up again. But like, really having those boundaries set
is so so important.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
From a career perspective when you think about that, especially
now where there is a flexibility of people being able
to work from anywhere at any point in time, and
also looking at the ability to advance your career to
be seen as a star team player, you know, or
(32:08):
always a team player. How do you keep yourself from
operating in that space where you're constantly accessible and you're
not creating those boundaries for yourself where there's time to
(32:29):
work and there's time to play, and there's time to
do absolutely whatever you want to do. Like, how do
you do that with this with the remote work?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, it's really an interesting challenge with remote work when
you have a job that you really care about, right,
I think for me, when you have a job that
you're kind of like, whatever's just a job, you only
care about it, I feel like it's a little bit
easier to put it down. You're like, Okay, this is
my work time and I'm going to be done.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
But when you.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Really care and enjoy what you do, it's harder, I think.
And so I find myself and I work in a
situation where I live on the West Coast, so my
company mostly operates on Central time hours, so I'm always
up really a lot earlier for where I live compared
to everyone else. So I theoretically I could work kind
of longer, right, I get up earlier, I can just
(33:17):
keep working until what a normal end day is for
me versus what like the Central time end day is, right,
So I.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Think for me, I've really tried to.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Just honestly, sometimes I have to tell myself out loud,
as you know, the time I'll have to say sheeres
it is five o'clock in the morning, and you do
not have to answer that email. They can wait until
seven am your time, when it's nine o'clock when it's
supposed to start right because I'm up early, so literally
don't have to say I have to stop myself. And
I'm like, you know what, we're not going to answer
that right now. They can wait on a Sunday if
it's not urgent. I'm not going to respond to that
(33:50):
right now. Like it's I have to kind of like
will message and say, this isn't the time I'm doing xyz,
even if I'm not doing anything. Still it's like, okay,
that's that's not a good boundary. So I really have
to kind of really work at it because it can
just bleed into all days, all times, all hours when
you're working, you know, remotely, and I think to having
the you know, not having the teammates, like you don't
(34:13):
see people I don't like, I didn't meet everybody on
my team. I'd been there like almost a whole year
before we were all there together because different we'd have meetings,
we'd get together, but then every somebody was sick, somebody
who's out maternity leave, different things. So even that kind
of being a team player.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
It's hard to do. You have to do that electronically.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
So that's also the challenge of you have to like
jump on the teams and leave a chat and do
those things which take up more time on technology than
maybe you would if you were in an option you
could just walk down the hall and say something. So
I think the tendency or the temptation to be more
accessible because that's the only way people have access to you, Like,
the only way people can see you is when you're
you know, on the teams are online, they see the
(34:50):
green dot or whatever. So I think it requires even
more disciplined to like, no, I'm not right now and
really and just be okay with it within yourself right
that people can I don't care if people email me early,
but just know I'm going to make a decision. I'm
not going to answer emails before a certain hour, right
or I'm not going to answer them after a certain hour.
So I think just kind of having those decisions made
(35:13):
and sticking to them I think is really important, especially
in the remote work space, and then also having those
decisions made before like it really gets tested. I think
is important, Like especially when my kids were smaller, it
was really important for me. The priority was my kids
came first, period, so there was something that I had
to do or take a call.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
That's just what I did. And so if there was
ever a.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Time when they did, like I made up that decision
before any like they ever called, before anyone were able
to call right, so then once they got an age
they could call. Then when they did, I just knew,
well that was the priority or you know, a trip.
If they didn't, I couldn't do it with them, then
I couldn't do it with them. Like, so you know,
it helped to make those decisions in advance. So kind
of setting the standard, I'm not answering the phone before
(35:55):
you know, seven am.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Then it's easier to stick to it. Then.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So when someone I don't feel that's tempted, but it
took somebody to text first or email me first, then
I have to make it, you know, for me to
have it like realize, oh, this is the thing I
should probably like figure out. So it's hard though it's
I mean there's pluses and minus is remote work, but
mostly pluses for me, But I know it's hard.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
It's not for everybody.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, one of the things that I do is so
if I'm working after hours or.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
Late into the evening, you won't know it.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Oh, I may respond to your email, but I schedule
it to go out in the morning.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Because I think it's important.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
For people to understand and I can, and people get
the understanding by how we're communicating if they see me
emailing at eleven o'clock at night or you know, in
the wee hours of the morning, and they know, oh,
I can send her email and I have an expectation
to hear back from her. But because I put that
(36:59):
in play for myself, even sometimes with my husband, he'll
be like, did you.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
See such and such email? I said, yes, I did.
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I'm not you know, ain't no email coming from me
tonight at eight o'clock at night. And that's challenging for
him because he's the complete opposite. He'll call at five
in the morning, all kinds of crazy stuff where I'm.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Like, no, I have to I.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
People treat you how you teach them to treat you,
And so I have a responsibility to put up my guardrails,
to put up my gates and all the other things necessary.
So that I set the standard on how people will
engage with me when we are conducting business.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
That is one hundred percent true. I think in business
and in life, people treat you how you allow them
to on some level. And I know and a lot
of us you know, it's a process and it's a
growth curve where we're learning how to set those boundaries
and hold those guard rails.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
And I think it does take at a.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Measure of maturity and the experience to understand that and
to experience what happens. You know, when people treat you
the way that you've taught them to, right, and then
they're like, oh wait, I don't like that, But let's
look back and see how I have kind of given
them a taskit permission to do it, because that's how
I allowed like you said, and if you you know,
send an email and people like, oh, she's up, I'll
(38:25):
just send it, or like calling like I've trained people
like I go to bed really early, so people know
not to call me late because I'm not going to
answer the phone.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
But if I kind of.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Kept answering the phone even though people even like socially
would call me late, then I didn't still give them
permission to calm and I'm you know, getting disturbed.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
So you know, now people know.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Don't call me, you know, late because I'm asleep, and
so they don't or I just leave it. I'll do
not disturb, they don't care. I'll catch up with you
the next day. And same thing with texting. But definitely
it's so important to understand that your responsibility to hold
your boundaries and to hold your guard rails, to protect
your peace and to protect.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Your joy, to protect your own well being.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
So what's early? You said you go to bed early?
What's early?
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I don't want to tell what the reasons it is?
Like was like, you have a middle school bedtime.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I'm like, no, okay, but so I will go to bed.
So I would say the latest is nine, because I'm
up at like five, So nine o'clock if i'm generally,
but i'll like you know, if I'm doing something or
go out and have an event, I certainly can scape later.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
But my general is nine. It's early for a grown yeah,
grown up for But if I that's a good reason,
if that's a good reason's.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Time that I'll stay up later. But generally at nine
o'clock I'm.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Out Okay, I can't even if I go to bed
at ten forty five pm, I'm going to pop up
at two thirty three in the morning and we'll not
be able to go back to sleep.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
So my bed time is eleven pm.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Oh my gosh, all the time.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Oh it is.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
I don't I can't even explo And in Troy, so
you go to bed at nine, Troy's in the bed
at seven thirty, and I'm like, listen, Grandpa, I'm not.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Getting in the bed at seven thirty cirumstances.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
That is funny.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So but it's like my body clock and when I
when I was, you know, really learning of myself and
really understanding my body and all those different things.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
That's something I learned about myself.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
And so eleven o'clock I get in the bed and
I wake up at six six thirty in the morning
without an alarm clock. But if I go to bed
anytime earlier than eleven PM, like clockwork, I pop up
and once I wake up, I cannot go back to sleep.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, I have that where if I wake up, I
can't go back to sleep. And my sleep pattern has
changed a little bit, as you know, times of life in.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
A woman's life change bring about such changes.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
But generally, like I don't use an alarm clock. I'm
usually up between you know, five and five thirty most days.
But if I go to I can go to bed
at eleven like one night, but like consistently, I'd be erect.
And then if the next day I have to probably
take a nap because I'd be so tired first stay
up late. Oh I got take it so I so
(41:22):
I could make it through through the day.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
So now, so let me defend my grandpap's bedtime Troy.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
So he he goes to bed that early, but he
also gets up at four point thirty.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Okay, So you know, I'm like in context, when you
think about the hours that someone is sleeping when they
go to bed early, like yourself, you're going to bed
at nine, but you're getting up so early. That is
like a full night's sleep in order, you know, a
good amount of solid, healthy hours of sleeping. I should say, so,
you know, to Grandpap's defense in case he listens to this.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
Like you're good, You're getting your and sleep is so
important too. It's like a self care I mean, you know,
like I'm always been.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
A person that was really like protective of my of
my rest and my sleep because it isn't really without
even knowing all the whyse like you said, getting to
know about yourself and know your body and everything, like
it's really important like for well being to have like
proper rest right and to have sleep and not having
sleep deprivation is really you know, could have different effects
(42:26):
of you know, at different levels of different people, but
for me, not getting enough rest is really like a big,
a big deal. I can really feel it less in
my emotions and you know, my behavior and my appetite
all the things. I really try to to try to
really protect my rest too.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
So before we go into our next segment, knowing what
you know, now, what would you share with younger Charisse
about this journey she's about to embark on.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Oh, that's a good question. I think one of the
things that I would say to her is that everything
is going to be okay. I think that you're gonna
be okay, You're gonna make it, You're gonna get through
these things that life is gonna you know, present to you.
And I think I would also say to her is
to be true to yourself. I think I've spent a
(43:18):
lot of my journey trying to be you know, we
talked about the beginning. I brought that book when I
was seven, and I spent a lot of my journey
not really owning the little the parts of me and
that little girl who was able to create a book
of poetry at the age of seven. And so I've
been a lot of I don't really talk about it
that much.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Was interesting you brought it up.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Almost never do I talk about it, And I think
just really being true to myself, that creative part of myself,
that very sensitive part of myself that kind of enables
and gives room for that creativity.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
I would tell little shries.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
To embrace that part of yourself and that there's nothing
wrong with you, and this is how God created you,
and there's like a lot of goodness ahead for you
if you just stay cheated yourself and keep going and
you can do it like that.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
You're enough as you are, as you were made.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
And I think I struggled a lot, and I think,
through relationships and through my career to try to be
someone other than who I really truly was. And so
I think that's the message of itself, because I think
you would have you know, been to your point like
you get to this place and your all those experiences shaped.
Speaker 4 (44:27):
Me to who I am today.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
But I think having a stronger sense of myself and
an integrity with internal integrity, being true to who I was,
that's what I would try to pass on to her
and tell her now.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
So our next segment is I'm bringing her to the
table with me, and this is your opportunity to give
another woman her virtual flowers, for you know, you would
not be where you are today without her fingerprint on
your life.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
So when I think about that question, and I think
about the many women that have I've touched my life
in different different times over my life, one woman in
particular is standing out and coming forward for me right now.
And her name is Brenda Salter McNeil, Reverend doctor Brenda
Salter McNeil. And she is a woman who is a
(45:18):
she's a theologian, she is a professor, she's a preacher,
my favorite preacher, teacher, minister of all time. And she
is someone who I admired from afar for many years
when I was younger, and then our passive intersected where
we've had the opportunity to work together and I've been
able to support her and some of her writings. She's
(45:38):
written a lot.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
Of books, and.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
She is someone who has always kind of seen in
me and called forth in me things I don't always
see about myself, and always really been encouraging of me.
And it's always been for me a real witness of
how I am regarded. I always say, I feel like
I know God was really thinking highly of me if
He's given you to me as a mentor. That's really
(46:04):
how I feel about her, is that she's such a
special woman and how she operates with excellence and grace
and intelligence and dignity, and that she has entrusted me
to kind of partner with her on different projects and
do different things, and then we've developed a personal relationship.
I just always feel really like super honored. Like there's
some people that you feel like, wow, they've chose me
(46:25):
to be their friend or they've chose me to work
with And that's how I really feel about her. She's
always kind of encouraged me in those parts of myself
that I've felt not as secure, like espectally in the
areas of my writing, my creativity. She's always really encouraged
me in that in a way that's been very tangible
and not just through words, and so that's really helped
(46:45):
me to just continue on my journey overall and given
me kind of that kind of that kind of that
winds beneath my wings just.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
To go forward in a lot of different ways. So
I think that would be the person who.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
I would bring give her her virtual flowers the table.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
So our final segment of our conversation is food is love,
and I'm going to ask you a series of food questions.
You know, food is near or dear to my heart? Yes,
So this is actually my favorite segment. What food best
describes your personality?
Speaker 3 (47:23):
And why?
Speaker 2 (47:24):
So I thought a lot about this question, and I
think the question the food I think the best described
her personality is gonna be a molten chocolate lava cake
because I think for me, I like to tell people,
or I tease people that I'm more than what meets
the eye, like people think I'm one way, but as
(47:47):
they get to know me, they get deeper inside. Like
they cut open the chocolate cake, there's more goodness that
comes out, and there's more like warmth and sensitivity and
that comes out and on the outside an exterior appear
to be, you know, a more kind of calm and
reserved and kind of distant person. And I'm not those
(48:07):
things really inside like all this, but you have to
get in there to see all that stuff. So that's
that's why I would. And also chocolate is my favorite.
Chocolate cake is my favorite, so that's also it like
goes well together.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
So can you name a time in your life when
food was healing for you? And when I say food
was healing for you, not talking about a specific diet,
but like where there was a moment in your life
where the comfort and the warmth and the nurturing aspect
(48:40):
of food was healing for you.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I a couple of years ago, maybe two two and
a half years ago, I had a major surgery and
I was I am single at that time, and I remember,
you know, it was after surgery, can't really eat, but
I tell you to start eatings and you can start,
you know.
Speaker 4 (48:58):
I was kind of like, I don't really want to eating.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
And someone, a girlfriend brought over to me and brought it,
like at my door, some mats of bas soup. But
I've never had mats of ball soup before, which is
incredible to me like a fully grown person. And I
tell you, Tommy, that was like the best soup I've
ever had in my life.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
I was like, that was just the perfect thing.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I felt so like comforted and like loved in that moment.
And the women I'll say her name to, Susie Lair,
brought it to me without asking me, and they also
brought like flowers and other things, you know, fun things too,
But that soup was just like, oh my gosh, it's
the best thing ever. Why have I not had it before?
And it just really was exactly what I needed to
(49:41):
feel like. It gave me the exact amount of nourishment,
like the spiritual nourishment the physical nourishment that I needed
in that moment. And I think also because she brought
it to me and didn't ask, like what do you need?
Speaker 4 (49:52):
What can I bring?
Speaker 2 (49:53):
She just brought it, you know, and that really meant
a lot to me too. So I think it was
as much in the delivery as in the food itself.
But that was like the best thing ever.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
That was that love transaction.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
You know, you knew Susie cared in that moment when
she did that for you, So I totally get that.
Does your family have an heirloom recipe that has passed
down from generation to generation?
Speaker 4 (50:16):
You know, sadly we do not. We have.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
My grandmother was a phenomenal cook, like phenomenal, and she
and we did get her to write down a lot
of her recipes. However, Tommy, I looked at those recipes
and all those steps and some of those recipes and
I was like.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
Oh, this is gonna.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
I will never be making nee throlls like that, the
require overnight and twenty fifth new. And there's a chocolate
cake recipe that she had, which is my favorite chocolate
cake of life. Like she used to send this cake
to me when I was in college from she was
in Nashville, Tennis City. She would bake me a chocolate
cake for my birthday and send it in the mail
to me to California every year. I mean, and then,
but Temmy, have I ever made the cake?
Speaker 4 (50:53):
No?
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Because I have the recipe for it, but I just can't.
I'm not a I mean, I do like to cook,
but I'm not a baker like that. So we have
the recipe so technically have been passed down. However, nobody
in my generation or then now my kids generating, they
don't make it, but it's like we have them, so
somebody could take that on, but sadly we don't. But
they are really like wonderful, delicious things, but like no
(51:15):
one's really sadly taking them on, but we have.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Well that's okay, that's okay, So quickly before we end
our conversation. Now, I know that you're not living in
Chicago right now, but you have spent some time in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
So these are some U this or.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
That questions regarding things specific to food specific to a
Chicago Okay, okay, okay, so deep dish or thin crust.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
This is a non Chicago answer, but it's thin crust
for me. Chicago.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Be like what, yeah, so a city style hot dog
or a.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
Street style hot dog.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
You said a city style or a street style, I
would say city style.
Speaker 3 (51:59):
So for your tacos al pastor or a carne asada
carnee asada, garrett a mix the caramel and cheese or
the cheese corn.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Oh, I like just the playing caramel, which is also
not the Chicago people would say the mix.
Speaker 4 (52:17):
But I like this the playing caramel, but Chicago people
wouldn't say the mix. Is what you have to do.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Okay, a couple of sports in here, the Cubs or
the White Sox.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
I used to always say living oblegis in Chicago, but
I was baseball agnostic because that is such a divisive thing.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
So I will stick with my answers. I am baseball
agnostic in Chicago.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
The Bears or the Bulls.
Speaker 4 (52:40):
I guess I would say the Bears.
Speaker 3 (52:42):
Are you a sports fan?
Speaker 2 (52:43):
No, not really, not really, not really telling me I'm
a sports fan by default because if my kids have
two sons and so they've been sports fans, so they
both like right now, they both really like the Bears.
Speaker 4 (52:53):
So I'm gonna I think they like the Bulls too, though.
But and there's so much Bulls tradition in Chicago, with
like Michael Jordan's and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
So these are I'm gonna answer these Chicago questions very
well from there originally I lived there for a long time,
so I'm kind of.
Speaker 3 (53:06):
Like but Terreisa.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
I'm so grateful that you took time to come and
stay wild with me today and join me for conversation,
and just know that you are welcome at my table anytime.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Thank you so much, Tommy. This has been so much fun.
I've been enjoying being at your table, so it's been wonderful.
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Absolutely thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
I hope you felt the love and connection in today's conversation.
Every woman you heard from has faced the impossible and
emerged stronger. This is your personal invitation to stale while
longer at TOMMYV dot com. That's t o mmiv dot
com for more inspiration for your mind, body and soul,
(53:50):
and let's not forget your belly. You're always welcome at
my table. Please be sure to subscribe, make yourself at
home and stale gone.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
Stay weel tell me me Gone, Stay weel tell me
me