Lima Charlie, Episode 22 with David Ditullio

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hm, I've got no reason the cheek of a killing

(00:23):
the season.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
With a need to blease you.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
When the light goes, bring best believe them in the
zone to be from a end of a yankdom a
yange sy good agree.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'mus here when you came the meat.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Because I'll wed.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm a one of a kind and I'll bring death
to the glacier about a week.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
Another river of blood running.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Under my feet boarding a violet long ago.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Stand next to me.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
You'll never stand alone. Mom, last to leave, but the
first to go. The Lord, make me dead before.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
You make me old a feet on.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
The fear of the devil inside of the enemy faces
in my sight, being with a hand or shoe, with
a mind, kill with a heart.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Like artic guys, soldier, I am a worry.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
To the ground of an enemy.

Speaker 5 (01:24):
I read you, Lema Charlie, loud and clear. Hello, everyone,
Welcome to another episode of Lima Charlie. And if you're
watching it tonight here on Tuesday the twenty second, you
are watching it live. A lot of these are pre recorded,
but this one is live, and I'm glad to be joined.

(01:45):
We probably could have gotten together and done this since
we did not live that far apart, but join me
with my good buddy, uh former cohort and soldier I
used to serve with him, David Detulio. David, Welcome to
the show Man. Thanks for coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Troy, thanks a lot, man, and great catching up so far.

Speaker 5 (02:01):
So yeah, I'm pretty sure if I remember, you know,
getting a little older, I appreciate you. You've been on
my stewing the done before or one of my shows
in the past. I remember we talked, we've had it.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Might even have been twice, but I know for sure
we did one and uh yeah, it's good to be
back on for sure.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
Well tonight it's a little bit different. We'ren to talk
about your you know, why and how you joined the
military and kind of some of the things you did
downrange and some things that stand out. So glad you
joined us and awesome. Well, hey, we've got people tuning already.
I see people coming on. So Dave, just kind of
as you would give our listeners and viewers a little
bit of just when you came in, what you did,
why you did it, and what was your reason for

(02:39):
joining the military.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Troy's funny because uh, my father I was an Air
Force Bratt and I was born in Almagordo, New Mexico,
and back in the seventies, so my father wanted me
to get into the military, and at the time, I
just I didn't want to do that. I wanted to
I end up going to college in Ablene, Texas, and
I thought I'd give it a shot. I grew my

(03:02):
hair out, I got into a band down there, and uh,
I got distracted, for lack of a better word. I
was doing great scuba diving and all the classes. It
didn't matter. So one I came back home to visit
family and we got a letter saying, you know, Dave,
you got to pick up your grades or this would
be the last semester. And my father's like, I'm gonna
make this easy for you. You're done, so so here

(03:26):
I am.

Speaker 5 (03:26):
Now.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
I'm I'm out of college and I'm working at a
restaurant where I met my now wife, So I can't
I don't question that at all. But while I was
in the restaurant, I was like, is this really who
I had to come to Jesus moment, I'm like, is
this where I'm at? I'm gonna do dishes for us
in my life because I didn't make anything of myself, and.

Speaker 5 (03:46):
So fry cook. I mean, there's always possibly I.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Did, And so I don't wanna. I don't want to
underestimate the value of being a fry cook. But so
I remember a conversation when I was in Abilene Christian University.
Rummer's cousin came up to visit, and he was in
the seal program. At that time, people didn't talk about it.
I really didn't know anything about it. So he's like,
you should do what I do. And I'm like, what

(04:10):
do you do?

Speaker 5 (04:11):
Mans?

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I blow my hair back and he's like, uh, you know,
I scuba dive.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
I run.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
I get paid for that. And I'm like, well, that
sounds pretty cool. So he talked to me a little
bit about it and then.

Speaker 5 (04:22):
Almost too good to be true, right, Oh, yes, in
scuba dive and you get paid. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I mean that's that's all I can do. Is I
don't have anything else. So that kind of stuck in
my mind. And and when I when I had that
come to Jesus moment, I was like, you know, maybe
I should look into this. Maybe my dad was right
and I should get in the military. So I went
to the recruiter. I cut my hair first because I
didn't want to give them the pleasure of seeing that.
So I like to join the Navy, and they're like,

(04:51):
what do you want to do, And I'm like, I'll
try this this seal thing here. So at the time,
they had a a die fair program and go directly
into it. I didn't want and do that because I
didn't know enough that there was a pretty hyattrition rate.
So I opted to go into with a rate. I
had a choice between Corman and Yeomen. I picked Yeomen

(05:11):
because I figured both of them had something to do
with the Seals. They couldn't be further from what the
seals do. I learned to type. I can still do
sixty words a minute on the old school typewriters, but
that had nothing to do with it. But so the
Navy's way of doing it was to put you into
a rank rate that they could afford to lose you
if you go to a special program like that. So

(05:33):
but I took a long way in I got into
the Navy. I trained every day in preparation for that.
We were at we'd be Onland Washington, and that's where
they filmed Officer and a gentleman. So it was a
pretty cool place. I was in the same dive tanks
that they had for you know, where they dropped the
helicopters in the water and flip upside down and all that.
So I trained there with a bunch of good guys.

(05:54):
EOD mobile at eighteen was there some officers, and EOD
took me under their wing because they knew I wanted
to go into this program. So while I was down there,
they gave me an opportunity to go to the Joint
Special Operations Command in Korea, and I worked with seals
and EOD just to kind of see get introduced into
the world. I wasn't doing anything that they were doing,

(06:16):
but I got to meet the guys, talk to him
and really get to understand that that line of work.

Speaker 5 (06:21):
So, so, what kind of work did you do? What
were you doing? So he went to Korea with Jay
Socer over there. But were you like, you know, scrubbing barnacles,
painting the side of the ship.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I told you, Troy, I'd have to kill you. So
that's I mean, that's.

Speaker 5 (06:36):
Like you just had his like pretty straightforward job.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
I mean I had a pretty nine to five job,
you know. I got to wear camis look cool. But
all I was doing was officer records and things like that,
and they were training down there, so I was just
maintaining all the paperwork, awards and stuff like that. So nothing,
nothing crazy. I got to check out South Korea and uh,
pretty cool place. But but yeah, so yeah, I didn't

(07:01):
do anything really fancy over there. It was just just
paperwork stuff.

Speaker 5 (07:04):
So hanging out with fancy people though.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Hanging out with fancy people there, yeah, So I really
the highlight of my career was just being able to
meet some fantastic people yourself included. Actually, I like, I
like all the guys in our in our field of work,
and that's probably the most memorable stuff is just all
the stuff in the field with all the guys like that.
So when I when I came back there, I had

(07:28):
to go through my die physical, I had to go
through psych, psyche, email as a whole. It was a
pretty in depth thing. I sat in the hyperbaric chamber,
had to sing a bunch of stupid songs and there
to show that I could still operate under literally under pressure.
Had to take some you know, some physicals. So we
we did our PT tests, push up, sit ups, pull ups,

(07:52):
flutter kitting on, flutter kicks, swimming the whole nine yards.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
So it was that.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
And then once I got through all that, then I
got sent to a selection course. That was one of
the first people enlisted wise to go through the selection course.
Before that, it was just for officers because there was
they couldn't afford to lose a lot of officers because
there weren't that many traditionally in there, so they would
send him to the selection course and they had a

(08:18):
pretty good uh pass rate after that. So so I
was there with the U as enlisted twenty five. I
was one of five they graduated. That cool story there
is remember the movie The.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
Rock Yeah, real quick, So that's like a selection course,
Like there's selection for SF Special Forces. That was a
selection for seals. Yes, just to even see if even
just to see if event.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Going to go on. Yeah, right, because there is such
a high drop off rate. I mean our first week
we lost over one hundred people in that thing. So
so it was uh so, yeah, we got a chance
to go to that.

Speaker 5 (08:57):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
All the guys in the in the pools and stuff
that were there all had long hair, ponytails, beards, I'm like,
what's going on here? This is not the nabe I
just came from.

Speaker 5 (09:08):
Before I came in, I didn't know I could keep
it like you know.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, I was like, this is this is gonna be awesome, right, So.

Speaker 5 (09:15):
What were you saying about the Rock? You're saying about the.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Movie the movie the Rock. Those guys were they had
just come off the movie set and stuff they had
they had they were doing all the dive scenes and
stuff like that. And actually when I went to BUDS
in class two eleven, my command master chief was Master
Chief Chalker, Dennis Chalker. He was one of the founding

(09:37):
Seal Team six guys and as people know him like that,
and so with Richard Marsinco and all those guys, so
I got to I got to meet him be in
his office. That was it's really cool to see.

Speaker 5 (09:48):
So.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
But so I graduated that I had I could go
to go to the class to eleven. So I went
down there in a winter class that was back in
I hate to say how old it was, but back
in nineteen ninety six. So we were still learning tactics
like Vietnam here tactics and stuff because there really wasn't
many wars that we had to learn from. So I

(10:12):
think now after twenty years of straight combat, I imagine
they've they've really adjusted what they've been teaching, how they
teaching and stuff. But nonetheless it was great guys i've met.
Do you remember Thirteen Hours? Yeah, movie, So Glenn Doherty
was in my class two eleven. Glenn Doherty was one

(10:32):
of the guys that were killed over there. He had
left the teams and went over to the CIA and
working in Bengazi over there. So yeah, so it's a
small world.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
Last year working on getting him back on the show
here we had to man, Actually not last year. Earlier year,
I met him at the inauguration. Who was it, Mark Grist? Grist? Yeah,
so yeah, working on trying to get him on. But yeah,
it's doing how those guys have kind of fight it out,
but just such a small group of.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, and that time is flying by so quick, man,
I can't. You had me running some numbers and I
was like, these dates are like I'm old man, it's crazy.
It feels like just yesterday. But uh yeah, So I
went to BUDS and it was fantastic training, totally different
from traditional military, Like we'd get up at five in

(11:26):
the morning and fail our first inspection every day. So
but you still had to do everything the night before,
you know. But we'd be wet and sandy out on
the grinder, a little frog feet. We'd run out on
and get on there. And the coolest thing, man is
our instructor would be up on a podium in front
of us. He'd hit the he hit his radio. We'd

(11:47):
be we'd be doing push ups and pull ups and
sit ups and dips and flutter kicks, all the metallica
and he would he was right there doing it with us. Man,
and we'd go on the beach runs. These guys would
run with us on the beach, hit the surf, they
would jumping the surf with us, like it was just
it was leading from the front literally.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
In some other schools, huh, where they just stand back
with their black t shirts or hats or whatever and
just you know, barking me in. You know, they've been
through it, But not many others were they right there
and that they can not.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Still doing it because these guys were older, you know
what I mean, like and they'd have every reason to
be like, no, I've been there, done that. You just
do what I tell you, but they didn't treat you
like that. I mean even from the beginning when they
rightfully could, because there's half a market more than half
a mark going to make it, you know what I mean, right,
they still treated everyone as though, you know, they motivated you.
You could be like us. Man, I did it, you

(12:38):
can do it and stuff. So it was a really cool,
cool environment. And it was just surreal because now southern California,
you'd be running running down the beach wand to puke
and you look over and you got people sunbathing at
the Hotel del Coronado and surfing on the beach over
and you're just getting near a hypothermic And he'd exhaust
it all on the same day. But I didn't, you know,

(12:59):
I did some time, and I was there for a
couple of months, and then we lost one of our instructors,
Instructor k I was twenty five years old when he
died over there. During the training, he was in our
dive towers with a fifty foot dive tower, practiced tying
knots in their breath holes and stuff, and so he
was before our class went in there. He was practicing
his breath holes. He was down on the bottom and

(13:22):
two seals were up on top talking. Didn't realize he
had passed out and never came up. By the time
they did, they went down and got him, he just
couldn't be revived. So I really realized there was a
number of injuries that were pretty crazy while I was
going through that training. So it just it really you know,
it's one thing to watch a movie Navy Seals and
all these other movies and think like, well, I want

(13:43):
to do that, and then you get into it and
you're like, this is quite a commitment. And so one
of the guys, one of the instructors that I used
to run on the beach with, he'd literally pulled me
from the group of like three hundred people in our
class and he'd pulled me on side and we'd run
against each other and we got to be kind of
a little bit of a challenge for me, and it

(14:03):
was it was just really cool to, uh, to do
that with them. But he one day, he's like, you
really got to think about this, Dave, because I've been
married like three times, kids with each each wife, and
all the god is a broken down body stories to
tell the people forget, and I don't. I don't have
my I don't have the relationship with my family. So
I liked I liked his honesty with me, but it

(14:25):
sucks because till that point, I was like, quitting is
not an option. I got I got hurt on the
obstacle course and stress fractured one of my ribs on
the dirty Name obstacle there, but that wasn't an option.
So I didn't medically roll back. I didn't do anything.
I actually been contemplating it for a week on you know,

(14:46):
if I'm going to do this, this is what this
is the world I'm getting into. You're gonna I'm gonna
sign a contract and I will be gone. And they
say they have a saying you're married to the teams,
and you literally your commitment's got to be to those guys.
You can't you can't be faltered and thinking of other
things when you're in the middle of that. So and
my whole thing there was I put one hundred percent
into my training. But also if I'm not going to

(15:09):
do this, I don't want to. I I said to myself,
don't waste their time like always that.

Speaker 5 (15:15):
You were going to go in half step, and if
you did it you. You were all in, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
I was gonna either I'm going to do this thing
or I'm not going to waste their time doing that.
That's not what They don't need it and I don't.
I don't need to prove it to myself. I was
already a dive instructure. I was getting getting into a
second phase. With the dive phase. That stuff's like cake
walk to me. Can I love? I love the water?
So it was more like, you know, do I want
to do this to my family? So so it was

(15:41):
a little bit of an internal battle because I'm a
Christian and really believe my family values. And there are
some seals that have made it through their career with
their wives, so it's not I don't take anything away
from them, but it's it's a tough ask for the
families when you're doing that. So so I just I
made it, made a decision, and I stuck with it.
So I think about it every day, but I don't

(16:02):
I don't regret it.

Speaker 5 (16:02):
So so you walked away from that, and then what
did'd you get on to do? What did you do
after that?

Speaker 2 (16:07):
So I had I was getting ready to then realist.
So it was if I wasn't gonna do the teams.
That was the only reason I got in. I was like,
I don'm not, I'm not here to type. So that
was just to get in, you know. I was like,
well then I'm not, I'm done. So I got out,
got into the reserves, and I got into it's called
a mobile inshore in the Sea Warfare Unit. They're they're

(16:30):
just uh, you know, we work in the shore and
we monitor through radar and other other tracking mechanisms what
who's out there under sea or above sea around wherever
we're at. So, like we did some training in Veegos
Island and Puerto Rico, and uh, while they were doing
their training runs or bombing runs, we were monitoring the waters,
waterways make sure no one got into that area where

(16:52):
were bombing and stuff like that. But we can use
that tactically for many other things there when troops are
on ground. So we got after nine to eleven, we
got tasked to go to the Mediterranean and again we
weren't under any heavy fire or anything that was in
Italy down in Palermo, but we were boarding MSc ships,
the Mobile Supply Command ships that are they're like oilers

(17:18):
that have JP five J fuel and medical supplies. So
if you're gonna take down, if you can't have a
sizable force to take down in the enemy, then you're
gonna hit their supply routes and things like that. So
if you remember the USS coal and Yemen from the
guys from Yemen, that's what they were trying to avoid.
So they put we put our teams on these ships

(17:39):
and uh and just kept them afloat and make sure
no piracy or anything like that would do that. They
had EOD teams scrubbing the halls, bomb dogs, scrubbing the
you know, all the cargo and uh. And that's what
we did. So it was another great experience. There was
a guy from the Special Boat Teams, Bill Abbott. H
He and I got real close. He came from the

(18:01):
teams and he joined this unit too, so we got
to use some of the training that we had to
help do some other stuff there with them. So we
had some training with the fast teams from the Marine
Corps and so we did that and then.

Speaker 5 (18:15):
Hollow were you there for howand was that deployment?

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Oh that was only like three months? It was yeah,
nothing crazy like that. So and then you know, with
nine to eleven and everything happening. We were like, you
know what, we got to get in the fight. So
he wanted to get back in the teams, and I
was like, you know, I'm going to go to the Army.
I got I want to. I heard that because these
the Seals didn't have a reserve unit except for like

(18:38):
special boat teams and stuff. So I wanted to get
into like a nineteenth or twentieth group. That's where I
met you. Because I didn't have a rank or an
MS yet, so I came over to the Army. I
had to get an MS first, So that's where I
went to send me to an infantry unit. First of
what first?

Speaker 5 (18:56):
And wait, you didn't come in with an MOS He
means I don't. I don't know. It was a minute ago,
but I mean so they just kind of put you in,
gave you a rank. I think it was right what
you had in the navy, right, Yes.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
I think they brought me in because I did everything
that equated to what the army had at the time, right,
So they brought me in as I think they would.

Speaker 5 (19:16):
Bring seventy one lima make you a paper pusher I
packed or something. I'm surprised. They didn't be like, oh
you know what a.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Tight Yeah, that's why I on tight lift. I mean
that was top secret stuff then, you know. I think
I came in as like a you know, radio man
or something like that. Put me in. But the idea
was to go in there and get my The path
that they said was you got to get in the
infantry first. Then you could put in and apply for
packages with that. But then at that time we went

(19:42):
from the first and one way to second, you know, second,
one hundred and first and this whole new rista change
in the army, and I was like, well this is
pretty fantastic. And we were talking zodiacs, talkings.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
Pathfinders, sniper teams, we have at all in the Guard.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
In the Guard of all things man like Tory, I remember,
I don't know if you were still there, but I
remember we had we had the new M one ten
sniper rifles YEP or the army, and we had like
serial number one through four, Like I'm like, what are
we as National Guards going to have like this? We
had those I can't remember the nomenclature for the night vision,

(20:22):
but it was both both thermal and I are I
was like this is they put some money into our group,
man like that, and no one really knew how to
handle this. They were trying to get me into his stetson.
I'm like, yeah, over my dead body putting. I said,
you guys can have it. That's cool and I'm good
with that. But I would never let you wear a
blue cord if you weren't an infantry. So why would

(20:44):
you want me to be? You know where that?

Speaker 5 (20:47):
So I called it blue cord jealousy. And uh. When
I was retiring, they some of the the higher ups
are threatening to give me one of my retirement and
I was like, I will make sure you get removed
from the building violently. And so they gave me a saber.
So I do have the saber. But I'm like, I'll
take the saber because I could. I could use that
possibly one day, but I'm not taking a cowboy hat.

(21:07):
I have a blue cords and discs and.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, it was it was a different time, but it
was just and again we had great guys.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
You know, when I was getting in, I heard a
lot of stories and people warning me, you know, it's
a nasty guard. Why do you want to do that?
And when I came came to your unit. At the time,
I was like, these aren't These aren't guys like I
was that was being described. You know, they had some
good times, you know, mafias and stuff, but uh but
for the most part of these guys knew how to play.

Speaker 5 (21:37):
It goes back to the Washington's Army of seventeen seventy five.
I think they were for mafia back then.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
So yes, yeah, they're still going strong. I'm sure there's
an underground society out there and you know.

Speaker 5 (21:51):
The uh but uh yeah, So you came to us
in two thousand and three, so yeah, things were already
pretty hot and heavy. We were in the mix of
it and uh uh And I think you you came
in right about when the unit. When you got to us,
it was right about when the unit was deployed. If
I remember right, like, you just came to us, and
I think I talked to you. I don't remember a lot,

(22:11):
but I remember talking like, hey, the boys about to go,
do you want to go? Like You're like, I just
got here. What rank are you? I don't know the
army stuff. I just remember having to talk and you
were trying to get family settle and get stuff settled.
I mean you were like brand new in the unit.
I think we were pre mobile or something.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
I think I was still wearing my my Navy BDU's
and stuff.

Speaker 5 (22:33):
That you were. You came in wearing maybe BDU's for
a little as You're like, they haven't even given me
gear yet.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
I don't even know who you guys are right now?

Speaker 5 (22:43):
Don't this called armory? Should I be here? Is there
another one that's supposed to be here?

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, And you guys had a crazy deployment man on
that we you know, we had some crazy things happen
over there that uh, that you guys had to deal with.
How did you since you've been to you've been to
both places?

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Right?

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Or did you did you go?

Speaker 5 (22:59):
Were you there and Iraq and Desert Storm ninety ninety one?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Okay, yeah, because I know our guys had a rough
time over there, and I was having never been to
Iraq and that I don't I was curious how they
compared to the mounds of Afghanistan and that the whole
dynamic there.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
Well, one of our soldiers who went to both and
went and O four and it went again when he
came back. When they came back and well, I guess
when you came back right nine. I asked him, Sharples,
I asked him how it was, and he was like,
I'll take double stack IDs in Iraq all day before
I go back to Afghanistan. I mean, he was, because

(23:37):
I was like, all right, sharp, you've been both, right,
I think we're at the air at the airport. I
was getting policing, you guys up and all that stuff.
And I was like, so you've been to both, how
was it and which one was worse? Which one was better?
Because I'll take Iraq all day. He goes it was
he said, Afghanistan was so much worse. So I just like, okay,
you know when I was in Iraq, there was no IDs.
That wasn't a thing. We just had scud missiles and

(23:58):
you know, facing a couple hundred thousand very hungry Iraqi
you know soldiers.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
But yeah, we so front line type of fight down
in there. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:09):
Yeah, it was forced. It was. It was they're dug
in trenches, you know, triangular defenses. We were coming at them.
We were flanking maneuvers and prepping, you know, hitting with
artillery and air and coming in and just you know,
killing everything and anything, it looked like it was given up.
We just pointed them to the weir and kept going.
And yeah, it was a very conventional, very conventional fight
executed that way. It was you know, massive desert tank

(24:31):
battles pretty much.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
And you know when we talk about like World War
two and stuff and how you know, the greatest generation
and stuff they had to face, and then you think
about like Afghanistan, you're walking through the mountains and it's like, wow,
it's a beautiful you know, some of the snow covered
mountains and tall like and all of a sudden, you're
like you're taking fire and they're not in uniform. So

(24:54):
I tell people it's like different and it would be
crazy and like what you're talking about, But it's also
crazy when you don't know, you just know that they're
out there. You can't tell if they're because they're not
wearing a uniform.

Speaker 5 (25:06):
They're not you know, yeah, I mean children, And I
mean you think about Vietnam, World War two, Korea, right,
Korea kind of started to get into this who's the enemy,
who's the friend because you had the same people. I'm
kind of looking people on both sides, even though you
kind knew the enemy were the ones on that side.
And then you had the uh, you know, Vietnam, which

(25:28):
you started to get that asymmetrical fight, three hundred and
sixty degree fight and everything. And then we got back
into convention with Desert Storm to the most part, right,
the kind of what we've been training for facing off
against the Russians and fold the gap and all that,
and then we get into the you know, global warr
and tear, which is a full three sixty fight, and uh,
you know, compared a lot to Vietnam, especially in how

(25:50):
we left Afghanistan, in Iraq, especially Afghanistan, but it was
you know, who's the enemy we take? We take as
you know, we'll talk about a second. You take a
piece of property, You go to a village, you do
some drop off some stuff, build some wells or whatever,
and you know a few months later you go back
through and it's rolled up, you know, and they're they're
not working with you. You're just like but anyways, let's

(26:11):
so let's talk about let's talk about your deployment Afghanistan.
That was two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, Right,
what'd you what what did you do? What? What do
you go over? As what was your job? That kind
of thing.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
So I I was, I was the senior enlisted on
a team, and UH got in there with with a
new UH major that didn't know and it was it
was interesting, It was pretty cool. This major ended up
being a really cool guy. So I did left seat,
right seat. Had my team getting ready to go, so

(26:44):
I went out there first just to roll out with them,
kind of get the lay of the land, tell us
what they were doing and stuff like that. Major Goad
was awesome. I think I was in what area I
was in Canada. Started out candor. I was in a
number of places Helmand and a ruse gun and stuff
like that, but started out in a small fob fob

(27:05):
Mahollic they called it for people who knew Thomas Mallard
from SF there it turned out to be like a
CIA black site. And so when I did my left seat,
right seat, Major Goad was former Navy too, and so
we found out I was. We talked a little bit
and he's like, I want to take you to see
some of your brothers. So I'm like, whatever, you know.

(27:27):
So he took me to this side of our little
fob there called Omega Group, and I didn't know anything
about it. So Omega Group was made up of the
CIA and it had guys from dev grou Feel Team,
six guys from Delta Force CAG that were no longer

(27:47):
operating as that they were now under this group called
the Omega Group working with the CIA, And so I
walk into this room the guys, Hey, boys, I want
to interest you to Dave. He just joined us. They're
all got MP fives and wearing man dress is getting
ready to go into some beat up vehicle quant on mission.
Really cool, dudes, I got to this. This deployment was

(28:10):
probably the icing on the cake for me. I mean
I didn't didn't get to do the stuff I really
wanted to for reasons that I gave you already with
the Seals, but this deployment was probably, I don't know,
it was the best man I got to work because,
as you know, there's some teams over there, like at
our base that that had options to go out there.

(28:32):
They kind of took themselves as we're kind of maintaining
the base, you guys can go operate. So I wanted
to get out there, man, I mean, this was like
this was my time to I told my daughter, you know,
I'm going and I'm going to keep make this an
away game not a home game, you know. So in
my mind, I was like, we got a job to do, so.

Speaker 5 (28:50):
So did right in? I mean that being a very
tight community. Obviously you've went through buds and did some
of that. But I mean, how did that You kind
of give me your background? Did they take you in
pretty well? Or they it's like, yeah, National Guard guy,
it's cool, go back to your side of the base.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
I expected that part of it, and it wasn't that really.
I mean, we had to prove ourselves, I would say
a little bit. And part of the proving was do
are you guys trainable? Do you want this or not?
So I was like when I talked to him, you know,
we were talking like first name basis, and They're like, so,
what do you guys got? What are you made up of?

(29:23):
What do you want to do? And I'm like, my
guys want to want to We want to work, you know,
so I want to learn. I told him, I want
to learn as much as possible. Whatever you're willing to teach,
my guys want to do it. So they I got
with their breaching guys, we blew so many things up.
You wouldn't even believe it. One time, I was stuck
on an ied for eight hours that first week we
were there, and I was like, that's never going to

(29:43):
happen again, because we're like a sitting duck sitting here
in Afghanistan. So I went over to another Dave and
I said, listen, I need sixty pounds of C four deckcord.
I'm sixty eight plungers primaries. And he was like he
just pushed it all my way, no questions asked, and
he said, you want me to each you a couple
of things on that. So everything from ring mains to

(30:03):
uh puck charges using chew cans and how to blow
doors and blow up I d's and so they were
just when we when they saw that we were trainable,
I think that was it. And then we did a
couple of missions with them, they saw that we actually
knew how to do our op orders. We were prepared.
Every guy knew how to do their pccs, PCIs and
all that good stuff.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
My point was, if you're if we're gonna be out
here just as a small team, then every guy needs
to know how to communicate via SAT. SAT radios know
how to know where they're at in this world. It's
stuff that you know, you know about. So and because
we had that attitude and the guys knew when to
play and when to work, these guys were like, you guys,

(30:46):
want to play, let's go. They liked they actually liked
our l rams. Are you familiar with that? Do you
remember that? Yeah, that's the long range Advanced Scout surveillance system.
You could see twelve point two miles and put a
ten digit grid and drop some you know. Yeah. So
there's a guy from the teams that, uh, that loved

(31:07):
that and he was he was like a combat controller,
wearing radios all over himself, talking to fast movers and
he's like, can you bring that toy with you? And
so we can. We can go to what we call
cup sites point of origin sites where they were rocketing
us every day and stuff, and so we would just
take our machine out there and call call for fire
missions on on these things. But uh, those guys they

(31:30):
were they took us in. I wasn't. I didn't expect that,
but we did all the time.

Speaker 5 (31:36):
Team real quick. So your your team's little bit probably
made a little bit different than mine. So how many
are on your team, and what were the what was
the rank structure?

Speaker 2 (31:44):
We had twelve people, right, and so we had a
major My spot was typically reserved for like a E
eight E seven, you know, Like so it's more set
up like a special operations.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
Right, you run a straight up E T T team. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, So we were embedded. We were right there. We
had Afghans we were working with, and because we did
the on the Green Side of the House, yes, f
guys were like, hey, you guys want to play. I'm like,
why you're asking us to play?

Speaker 5 (32:13):
Man?

Speaker 2 (32:13):
You guys, you guys are like got your thing going on.
They're like, we don't have Afghans. They didn't have Afghans
like we did, so they were like, we need your
Afghans to go out to do our things. So we just, uh,
it just really worked out really well. And uh, we
didn't do a ton of stuff. I'm not gonna make
it sound like we spent the whole year just fighting
side by side, but we did quite a few missions,

(32:33):
learned a lot, did a lot of training with them,
and uh, but no, it was it was pretty cool.

Speaker 5 (32:39):
You were there eight on nine. I was there six
o seven also on antt also the senior listed guy.
Because you're right, it was an eight nine position. Usually
E eight also had a major. My lowest ranking was six.
Most of mine were sevens and three's. Did you have mine?

Speaker 2 (32:56):
No? Mine, I did have some E fours.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah, you had some because you took the guys from
our unit, right, So that I was curious because they
weren't all sent on fobs and guarding towers. I mean
they were out there on the teams with you.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yes, yeah, so these were It was quite a channel.
So my thing was when when I knew we had
the caliber of guys that we did at our base,
I was like, I'm taking advantage of this man. You
guys are going to get some training. I was like,
if you can help me, I said, I had some
activeduty time. I got familiar with your world. But not
only do I want the you know, to get up
to speed and everything you're doing on how you operate
and stuff, but for the safety of my team and

(33:30):
these some of these guys never left New York, let
alone this country and uh, and I want to give
them the experience of work on some high caliber people.
So it was great.

Speaker 5 (33:39):
So the vantage I probably had was because say, most
of mine were I had wenty six, our good buddy
Dave that was in our company, but most of them
were East sevens and O threes. Is you know, we
didn't have to worry about junior soldiers, which means we
didn't have to worry about all that comes along with
being a senior person around junior soldiers. We could just
as I told my guys when we went, you're going

(33:59):
to be fours and clothing, so get ready for it.
So did you just curious did you have any issues,
discipline issues, things like that that you had to deal
with because you were dealing with younger, maybe more junior folks.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
In the downtime a little bit. You know, the guys
get restless, and they, especially in our kind of a
type personality environment, these guys play hard, but they also
I mean they work hard, but they also play hard,
you know, so only very limited. I think I handled
most of that when we were back at Brag and
Stuff too. You know, there was some changing. I'm like, listen, guys,

(34:36):
I know you like to screw around stuff. This isn't
the time, man. I mean, we're actually going to a
place where people want to kill you. So they I
was lucky that the guys you know, did their part. Man,
they became men over there.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
Good. Good. So let's talk about some experiences from there
or from your time in the med uh in Italy.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Uh that was a serious time man, all right.

Speaker 5 (35:00):
No, the cannoli was just you know, melting.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
It was hot, you know, yeah, it was like I
got thirsty.

Speaker 5 (35:05):
Yeah, but uh no, let's talk. I mean, anything it
stands out. Especially's probably mostly right in Afghanistan too. Over anything,
it stands out any stories of people, events, anything like
that that you just you know, people would never hear
if you didn't tell them, if they didn't ask you.
That you think people should know about that that happens
down there. That just minute left an imprint on you.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
I got some funny stuff, man, I'd like to write
a book on some funny stuff that happened. Everyone's got
these little huge who got stories, you know, stuff like that.
But we were sitting around a fire and I wanted
I had fires a lot, because I wanted guys to
have like what we do back home, you know, kind
of a fire, like a campfire type thing. So we
we'd do those. And I said, one morning, I was
we having coffee and getting ready to go out, and

(35:47):
I said, I want you to. I had one other
guy here. We were having a cigar together, and I'm like,
I want you to watch this this afghan, right, it
goes why what's he doing? So just watch them. So
it was a it was a row of outhouses, right,
and the outhouses were true out house. They had like
fifty five gallon drums in the back part of it
that was cut in half and they slid it under
there and we did our thing in there, right, So

(36:08):
I said, just watch what he does. So I said,
what do you notice around here? And he's like, oh,
I see, you know, sticks and rocks and things like that.
They just just keep an eye on that, all right.
So this Afghan walks over there and pulls one of
the fifty five gallon drums out. That's that's filled, you
know what I mean with everything, you know? And I said,
watch what he does. So he rolls up his sleeve

(36:30):
and sticks his pours gas into it and then sticks
his arm all the way in and stirs all that
in there. And he's like, like, guys ready to throw
up looking at this guy doing it, Like that's why
we'll never win this war, man, because to the right
of him, you and I would have grabbed this this
stick and started with that, and he's sticking his arm

(36:50):
into my feces that I just got out of there
with and.

Speaker 5 (36:54):
Everyone else because in Desert Storm that we had to
do that. Sergeant Steward was buck Start, and Steward was
the guy. Sometimes I had to do my duty and
and and do it for the platoon, so I used sticks. Also,
we may have even used an old one of our
mortar aiming polls. Possibly, I don't remember, but it was
that was a minute ago. Yeah, that's a good gonna

(37:16):
win this war. That's a good example.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
I remember going in there and uh, you know, you're
always worried about snakes coming up and that you don't
know what's in this thing.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
Man.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
There's all kinds of stuff out there, you know. I
remember dropping one of my gloves and I always work
gloves over there, and it's just teetering on the top
of everything that's down below. I'm thinking to myself, how
bad do I want this glove. I was one handed
for a while there, but uh, you know, we had
a lot of fun in our downtime. Do you remember Elliott.

(37:46):
Aaron Elliott. Yeah, he was a lieutenant.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
He was okay, yeah Elliott, Okay, I was thinking of
the guy named Elliott, but I can.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
He's up there now. I'm surprised. I don't I don't
know how he got as far as he did. But
he's a good Aaron's a good guy. We were down
there and I and we were all, you know, bunkered out,
and I hear him sitting, you know, sitting on this
rack with another guy talking about he was fascinated. This
one guy was a was an amateur ghost hunter, you know.

(38:15):
And I'd come to find out that Aaron is like
totally freaked out about he won't even buy a house.
If he finds out someone died the house, he's not
He's not buying the house. If he finds out someone
thought there was a ghosts in there, he's not buying it.
So he was like enthralled by what this guy to
say about ghosts and stuff. So when I found out
that he was afraid of ghosts, you know, he'd have
his little areas, a little hut that he was sleeping in.

(38:37):
So I'd go, I'd send guys over there and we'd
like rearrange his room, just like little things first, and
he'd like go back to He'd come back to where
all our guys were and be like, hey, Dave, did
you guys go in my room? I'm like, why are
we going your room? He didn't know I heard all
this story about ghosts and stuff, right, So so he's like,
all right, just make sure no one goes in there

(38:58):
or whatever. I'm like, yeah, no one's in there. Manatching
him all here, right, So I had a week or
so pass. Next time he comes in there and he's
in here for a while they're talking, I go keep
him occupied him and go over there, and I moved
I mirror imaged his room. I put his bed that
was on the left side over to the right, all
his shoes over there, and I took his shoes and
I made dust prints like they walked up the up

(39:20):
the wall and across the ceiling and down to the
other side, and complete mirror imaged his room. And he
had already put a hasp on it to make sure
that no one would get in there. So when I
saw the hass, I used a drill bit and pulled
all those things out, did our thing to his room
and then locked it back up. So he's like, Dave,
get over here. I want you to follow me. I'm like,

(39:42):
what's going on, sir? He's like, was anyone in my room?
I'm like, no, I don't I thought everyone was here.
He goes and we go up to his room and
I go, why would anyone be in there? You have
a lock on it, you know. Maxim like stupid, you know,
like you haven't locked. What are we doing, sir? Why
you mess him? He goes, look and he opens up
his door. I know. I try not to burst out
laughing because I know it's complete opposite.

Speaker 5 (40:03):
I'm like, so.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
I'm like, what what are you talking about? It goes you
don't see it. I'm like see what? And he's like
the room is completely opposite of what I had? Like
shut up. He goes, look at the ceilings, put prints
on there. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Make we're wasting my time, right, So I let you know.
We did some things. I'm making a long story short.
We get back overseas. You know. During this time, while

(40:26):
he's on the phone with his wife, I hear him
talking about, what do you mean you sold the truck?
For a pig and she's like yeah, and he's like,
she's just totally a jokes to her. She was messing
with him the whole time, like stuff like that, like yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
So so when we get back to the US, right,
I call his wife and I'm like, listen, are you

(40:49):
ready to play a joke from one joke shirt to another.
I've I've listened to the other end of your phone
calls talking about, you know, messing with him all the
time and watching him smoke cigarettes like you were there
going out of style.

Speaker 5 (40:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
She's like, yeah, yeah, what are you talking about? So
I told her the story that we did over there,
and he still doesn't know. I never never did anything,
and all the guys kept it quiet. We're back in
the States, so he's like, this is perfect. So she
had her brother up and you know, he was from
out of town. He came up to visit. So he's like,
we're all getting ready to go leave. So I'll get
everyone out in the car. I'll tell him to go

(41:21):
back in like I forgot something, and I'll have him
change the room up and come back to the car. So, right,
so she does that, they go out for the evening,
they come back and he goes into the room. He
goes to open the door in his room and he
sees things have changed again. He never told his wife
about this, so he's just She calls me, She goes, Dave,

(41:41):
I need you to say something. I'm like, why, what's wrong?
He's been standing outside the door. He won't even go
in the room. He's just looking at them. I said,
put him on the phone. Yes, So I finally came
clean with all that. And his wife was a rock
star man. But so that's the kind of stuff. Yeah,
when you get bored that what we do overseas.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
So yeah, I mean it could be a lot worse.
But for sure, what was about your work with the Afghans?
Anything stood out amongst them you talked besides the one
that you know was on ship burning duty, but uh
the uh any others that you know. I know there's
no stories, trust me, but anything stood out maybe is
like this country could be saved if he was the president,

(42:23):
you know kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Well, no, I'm not gonna say he's just saved if
he was the president. I'm going to tell you that
we were getting into a room clearing and they put
this guy with an RPG behind me. He was second
man in. I'm like, what is he doing? Like, what
is he like? He's going to go and clear this
room with an RPG.

Speaker 5 (42:37):
I'm like this.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
So that was kind of the that being said, Uh,
that helped me understand what I was dealing with. And uh,
the guys that we had when I needed him the most,
those guys were on point. We had were very lucky.
We had a good relationship with some of the guys
we had. Some some teams had horror stories like uh,
you know uh Afghans that had Taliban in their in

(43:03):
their units that killed people and stuff like that. While
I still didn't trust them one hundred percent, had to
make sure I knew where they were, where my guys
were when we needed them. These guys put themselves right
in harm's way with us and we're right there. So
it's pretty good.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
In your list of guy you were, you also responsible
for the interpreters, their past, their leave, their pay.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Oh yeah, yeah, I had. I forgot the name of it.
But I was like that guy with a ten thousand
dollars paying hand those who run him over.

Speaker 5 (43:31):
Yes, you were the food agent, Oh yes, right, yeah, yeah,
but did you establish any special bomb with any interpreters
and have any of them come to the States.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Yes, I've got two of them that are in the
United States. Now, we went in Texas, went California and
there outstanding guys. We were. We were in a firefight
and in this marijuana field. As far as the guys
can see this marijuana plants were taller than me and
rounds are coming through it. And he put himself in
front of me. I'm like, dude, this isn't your fight,
this is you Get behind me. I'm protecting you. So

(44:04):
but it was really cool to see an Afghan that
It's not a common thing to see them put a
life online for a Westerner like us. Right. So that's
when I knew we had a special bond with these guys.

Speaker 5 (44:17):
Did you train them and yourself like we would train
our They knew how to fire off our weapons. We
usually gave them extra a k M S's that we
picked up they I had won that he'd turn up
the Blue Force tracker and would would give me sit
wraps because it's me and one of the American right
ones driving ones on the gun. Yeah, there's two of
us in twenty Afghans. That so the turp ran the
BFT and you know, and.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
I think the only thing that we did differently was
that I took their phones. I wouldn't tell them when
we were doing it. I'd give false information just to
do that. But they knew how to do everything. And
then uh also I'd spin them up and they knew
exactly what to do and stuff, but they didn't have
their phones. And then that way we at least knew
communication was controlled and uh, secrecy was held. But all
the other stuff, though they were, they were as far

(44:59):
as they were. They like us.

Speaker 5 (45:00):
Man.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
It was like we typically go out on a patrol
and I'd have like three gun trucks, so I'd have
a gunner up in the turret and a guy at
the blue force tracker, you know, TC, and there'd be
three of them up there, so that's already six guys
that are out and it would just be my major
and our medic, which was a Navy medic, and Afghans,

(45:22):
and he'd walk one side of the village and I'd
be on the other side with my Afghans. I just
remember thinking to myself, if my wife knew that I'm
out here by myself basically you know what I mean,
anything could happen.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
Yeah, would pull with three gun trucks of Americans. Yep. Wow,
that was That's some of the changes in Roe in
a couple of year. We rolled one in Tenth Mountain
and eighty second thought we were suicidal because they they
had their gate guards would not lift their gate if
there weren't three gun trucks ready. They saw us and
saw we were Ett's and they'd roll it up and
just like good luck. But we were two Americans a

(45:56):
turp in fifteen twenty Afghans and we were rolling nations
and it was it was always a very tightening moment.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Well, it really depended though. Like I said, we had
Ford Rangers that we used the Afghan Ford Rangers, so
so we take them out on the streets and stuff
are too narrow, you know, the villages and stuff like
that for us to get in there. We had very
rare occasional motorcycles. We had four wheelers access to stuff,
so it really dependent. Terrain dictated that sometimes we rolled

(46:22):
out with an m reps of a cougar. I mean,
I think it was called the cougar at the time, but.

Speaker 5 (46:28):
We had they were bought under they were portable generators. Yes,
so there may have been some food money spent on
those portable generators that just happened to look like Yamahan
Dura one twenty five.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
I don't know what you're talking about, but yes, I
would say that.

Speaker 5 (46:44):
Was before I got there, and it's been over seven years,
so but yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, you get about that. I will tell you that
for sure.

Speaker 5 (46:53):
Yeah, well, I tell you. You know, my dad didn't multiple
tours in Vietnam, and it would tell me stories about
that was like a Special Forces there and pretty if
they had to beg bar and steel everything. The stories
were so similar when I would talk to him what
we were doing. I mean, you know, we were doing
a special Forces mission, right FID mission with local indigenous
people and and you're trying to, you know, teach them

(47:13):
tactics and fight for their own country and that kind
of stuff. And you're out there unsupported and you're wheeling
and dealing and beg barn and stealing and doing whatever
you can to get through the day because there's no
big army to your left and right or behind it
third down the road.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
That's what I was saying, Like the crazy thing is
is we're all on the same battlefield SF blue. All
the guys like, we're all in the same battlefield. The
bullets don't care what your mos is, what your rank is,
And that is the biggest thing when people ask about
the differences to say, we're not supported, like I'd love
going out with the with the team guys, because we're

(47:49):
running restricted airspace, radio wave burns, mortar protection, dedicated air
you know ac on thirty Spectra gunships, fifty two bombers.
Like when when they came out, I was like, yes,
we got the full weight of our you know, force multipliers.
Because when when we went out, like we were like

(48:09):
a small footprint. I mean there was times I was like,
I know we should be going home soon, but I
don't know if they know where we are. We've moved
four times and I'm not sure anyone knows what we're at.

Speaker 5 (48:20):
It was when they're doing a headcount on the bus
that were missing some dudes, like hey, do we ever
get those guys? Yeah, it almost felt like that.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
I Mean there was times that were like it was
literally just us out there. That's what I think made
us so tight as a team out there and stuff
was I mean even the appans.

Speaker 5 (48:36):
I mean for everything, right, you depend on each other
to make make the keep the generators running, to fix
the bathroom, to do I mean whatever it may be
you had. Right, there was no contractor there's no Halliburton
or Dining Corps. Right, Look, they were mentoring cops, but
I mean there was nothing. You had to figure it
out yourselves, find out someone had a Savilian skill or
did something as a kid, and be like, hey, then
you're the guy that fixed our vehicles.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah right, I mean it's just you're out there on
your own, like literally out on your own. And I
don't know that we got I think you went to
a train didn't you do training for that specifically that mission,
like they need mission.

Speaker 5 (49:09):
Yeah, we went to We went to Shelby and went
through that to prepare for it. But the same thing
you guys did at BRAG I think, right, you guys,
you guys.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
Went did three months over their training kind of like that.
So I guess maybe I didn't.

Speaker 5 (49:19):
Know we went. Yeah, we went, did all the pre
mobe call and then we did the only training we
did is which was ironic because you know we were
called them bedded trainers. No one knew what etts did.
We all thought we were teaching. They literally gave us
a class on how to do trifold boards and give
classes on a trifold board to aft and we were like,
we're really going to be trainers. And we got over there,
We're like, oh, these people are third grader's guns and

(49:41):
trucks like they're idiots, their stern poop with their hand,
like they're I'm not breaking out a trifold board for
these guys. I mean even even a sand even a
sand tables a little much.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah, totally, they didn't know maps and stuff. They didn't maps.
I was amazed at how well they knew Afghanistan without maps.
Like they're just up and over passes and moving through
the this and the next thing you know, we're in
a small little thing that I would have needed needed
a map for sure, But yeah, they're right.

Speaker 5 (50:07):
There's were the one fifty fifth National Guard out of
Mississippi who all went to Iraq. And it was just
one of my guys, one of my former soldiers with me,
Dave Dennis Knowles, who was on here not long ago.
We talked about it and it was like every story
was here's how it's done in Iraq. I mean at
every single training session by the one fifty fifth who
was activated was telling us how everything how IDs were

(50:27):
in Iraq. Everything was done in Iraq. It was like
we're going to Afghanistan, they'd be like, oh, we don't
know how it's done there. Probably the same We're like,
oh great, that was our training that had to get
signed off. Was is how conops happened, How how this happened.
And it was always in Iraq and Iraq and we
would just be we knew right then that we're like, Okay,
we don't know what we're walking into because no one
here knows what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
I was I was surprised at I was surprised that
there wasn't a bigger plan in place for like our teams.
Like I figured the team that we had before would
be like, all right, we trained them in this, this, this,
you're gonna pick them up and you're going to train
them in this thing and like and that wasn't the case.
I mean, like it was like every team started over

(51:09):
again with the with the training for these guys, and yeah,
it was. It was definitely And I was surprised too
that we didn't really have a lot of guidance. I mean,
it was it was just us deciding what we wanted
to do, Like we create our own missions. We I
worked with the Canadians. Probably got the best intelligence I've
ever got was from the Canadians. They could tell me

(51:29):
how far the window was from the ground, uh, how
thick the walls were, how wide the streets were, what
vehicles I needed, and if that would work like it was.
It was pretty impressive. So we just operated off of
that and intelligence and you know, and then we'd feed
the CIA with anything like they would. They would ask
specific things about areas that we were going. If we

(51:51):
see this, bring them back or do this or you know,
and it was just it was pretty cool. But I
was surprised at how much freedom I really had to
do literally whatever we wanted to do over there.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
When you come from a military that there's a chain
of command and uh and orders and this and regiment
and discipline and all that stuff. And then you get
out there and you've got you know, a dozen lives
depending on you, and a whole bunch of ammunition and
stuff and some food money, and they're like, hey, go
go win hearts and minds and kill bad guys, and
you know, you're just like, okay, you know you had

(52:26):
a few rules, but you know, not not a whole bunch.
And you're like, this is two thousand and eight an army,
Like this is how we're doing things.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
It's crazy. So let me tell you this. Man, if
you're watching time, do we have time for a quick movie?

Speaker 5 (52:41):
The store ahead?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah, so I've got give me one seven all right?

Speaker 5 (52:51):
Surey.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Let me know if you've seen this before.

Speaker 5 (52:55):
Oh yeah, I know what that is.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
It's a flair. It's a flare. So I I'm coming back.
I'm going through Candor and I'm asking for AMMO and
they're like, I'm sorry, we gave it to this team
before then needed it. I'm like, what do you think
I'm here for. You said you had it and I
need AMMO, you know what I mean. And they're like,
well you should have a ton of arty. I'm like,
we're using it. Like I said, I just went through

(53:18):
seven magazines coming here just so my guys can get mail.
And they're like, what do you mean you went through
seven magazines? You need you should be doing a seier report,
a serious incident report. And they're like every time I fire.
I went through, you know, two hundred and ten rounds
just now, just trying to get her to eat you
know what I mean, and refit, you know. And they're like,
you can't be doing that. And I'm like, we're in war,

(53:40):
Like these guys are shooting at me, you know. So
they gave me this and I'm like, what is this right?
And they gave me a few boxes like the size.

Speaker 5 (53:48):
Of this little yeah, little red yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
So he shows me how to screw it on. I'm like,
are you kidding me? He goes, this thing works great,
give it to the guy and that they're anyone coming
at you. You fly this day. They don't know what
to do with it, and they and it works great.
So I remember handing this to my gunner, Marquez, and
I go here, he goes, what is this? I go,
This is their answer. I guess this is supposed to
deter them, and that works. So so we're going through

(54:14):
can and like it's getting stupid. And this guy in
our Rick.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Show, you were told this by an American military member
of what branch and what rank from.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
The army in yeah, crisp army uniform, brand new glasses
with not one streak and safety glasses, aviator gloves that
look like they've never been worn, you know, like.

Speaker 5 (54:36):
He was over enlisted listed he was like East seven, okay, yeah,
and that was that was a deterrent that the enemy
would run away if you fired a red.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
That's what he's saying that. But I didn't have any
other option at that point because I needed AMMO and
all I've got was my training AMMO that now I'm
now turning into my warm if you call it that, right,
So we do this thing, right. So now we're picture us.
We're we are flying through the in the streets of Canada, right,
and this guy in a rickshaw's coming at us. Now,
when we were there, it was basic common knowledge. You

(55:07):
see Americans coming you part the seas like they move,
they don't stop, they don't they don't go like that.
So we're moving and this guy's coming right at us,
and my God is like, Dave, what do you want
to do? What do you want to do? I'm like,
use that stupid flight, right, So he goes like this,
and and I see a fly and it hits the
rickshaw and he catches it, lights him on fire with
his mandras like he's in flames and we're all like,

(55:31):
so fast forward this so I'm not making this an
all night thing.

Speaker 5 (55:35):
Right.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
We come back like another week later and I'm like, hey,
I need more boxes. I gave him like six empty boxes.
He goes, what do you mean you need more boxes?
I'm like, these things are great. It's like we're lighting
up the streets at night. They're like, marshmallows man, You're
like what. I'm like, yeah, this thing. They You're right,
they work great. And they're like, here's your Ammo.

Speaker 5 (56:01):
Light people on fire? Do I gotta do a serious
insident report for that? Or is that cool? Because it
wasn't a bullet I mean, how does that work?

Speaker 2 (56:08):
I was just thinking to myself, I just remember that
they wanted me to do PT tests. I'm like, I
don't even have power into places I've been at right now,
you know, like, how do you what do you? What
do you think I'm doing out here? Like you want
me to do a PT test?

Speaker 5 (56:20):
Two to three years prior we were we went up
to our higher core fob too at Gardez and they
we went to go get Ammo. We needed Ammo and
they were like, where's our Emmo. We're like we're shooting
it all. They're like, you're supposed to be training. You
shouldn't be shooting it there. You shouldn't be They literally
told us, shouldn't be getting out of your vehicles. We're like, well,
are in A and A get in battles and they're

(56:41):
like you should direct them from your vehicle. But they
were like no. But they were like, why are you
shooting it all? They're like, we're and we do. It's
almost the same thing. We're in combat, Like we had
to fight to get here. We were we were in
ticks all the time, and they.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Were like, the pols are still flying.

Speaker 5 (56:56):
Yeah, and they're just like they were amazed that uh.
And in fact, we started getting from tenth Mountain. I
befriended a lieutenant in charge of an ASP, A BMO
and a couple of E threes and they would just
take me under Gamma, go to their asp their AHA
and let me load up as much as I wanted.
And when we when when we left, when we got there,

(57:17):
I don't know how it was for you. They handed
us a ziplock bag of two hundred and ten rounds
of five, five, six, and some nine mil. And this
is young and This was at guarded, This was in cobble,
and he said, do you want to count it? So
you got to sign for I'm like, and it's a
classified expendable. I'm first art and I kind of know
how this stuff works. He's like, no, you want to
count it first. I'm like no. They're like, you want
to make sure you're signing for them, like it ain't
going to be the same, saying this is day one.

(57:39):
When I get there, I'm like, this won't be the same. AMMO.
I turned into the year trust Me, and it was
a ziplock bag off someone else's turn in AMMO. And
when we turned it in, I don't know how much
I was emptying my mags and frags and this and that.
They were like, where'd you get fraggs? You guys are
And I was like, here's all my AMMO and they
were it was amazing that people that sat in the
same combat zone as us, we're so disconnected, how it

(58:02):
happened outside their wire that no no idea. I mean,
we bought sot off shotguns off the market. We use
those for breech guns. We we use those to push
vehicles back. We didn't have cool red marshmallow flares. We
just put it. We just put some Pakistani double lot
buck into the hood of a Corolla. Yeah and it
and it worked. But uh yeah, that's uh So when

(58:26):
you came out of that tour, we'll kind of wrap
this up. We can go on almost an hour when
you came out of there, and looking back and probably
you probably a lot more reflection so far, so long later,
because I know, I do we we me and my team,
we get together all the time. We look back and go,
how did we not die? How did we not get
rolled up? Like we were flapping in the breeze? Do
you look back and thank God for thank you for

(58:47):
bringing me and pretty much you know, as many as
possible back and and for because you know, when you're
over there, right, you're not thinking that, you're just like,
we got a mission, right, the guys want us. We
got work to do. Not this one's kind of high
on the risk matrix.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
It's like, let's roll, No, we'd be down black routes
and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (59:03):
We didn't.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
We didn't. We didn't have an option at that time.
So yeah, you know what, when you're over there doing
the work, you're not really thinking about it man, like
I put my my family in a little box when
I'm on a mission and I'm one, you know, loading
ammo with let the bodies hit the floor, you know
what I mean. Like We're just that's rolling through my
head and I'm just thinking one locked in. Dying is

(59:25):
not an option. I've told many Afghans over there, like
I didn't come here to die for a year country.
You can die for your own country over here, like
this is We're going to handle business over here. But uh,
but then when I came home, that's when it all
hits you, you know what I mean, Like You're like, wow,
this is I don't know why I'm here. So some
people struggle with that. I was older when I went there,
so I had a good religious support group, family was

(59:49):
one hundred percent supportive, like not everyone fortunately to have that,
and so some guys were still kind of messed up
with that. So it's a crazy world, man.

Speaker 5 (59:59):
Yeah, I mean it's it is because you're out there.
It goes against the all the teachings and doctrine of
the US military of having a left and right and
a rear echelon, and it's chain of command and a
support structure and all the logistics and all that stuff
to being out there with you know, a stack full
of fake funny money and you know, just told go
handle the mission right and uh, you know, and you know,

(01:00:23):
beards and ball caps and you know, all that other
kind of stuff, and it was just it was anti
everything that that. If you've been a number of years
in the military and you've gotten to a mid link
you know, mid level manager in E six, E seven,
O three, it's it's not like anything else, and it'll
never be anything else like it. I mean, you know
Mike from years the Roe, you know, as you know,

(01:00:43):
my son John went with you. You know, we would
talk and you know my tour day two, y'all's was
the rowe. Everything else is completely different. I mean, like
I said, we would roll one gun truck and we
didn't think nothing about it, like met me and Captain, Yeah,
it's all we got you if we wait for three,
like that's the whole team. We're in four different battle spaces.
There is no there's no other gun truck to roll

(01:01:04):
with us. And did I did were you in the
training that I did for the brigade before you guys went,
I kind of I gave a class.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Yeah, because that was valuable because you were the only
thing that we really had that was there, you know
what I mean that that did that that type of mission.
So yeah, that was that stuff helped out for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
Fun fact that I was I was, I say counseled,
but you don't really get counsels the first RD. But
I was talked to by some field great officers after
that that I was portraying a too negative message image
of what it was going to be like. And uh,
after I ran that and I had you know arm
you know all of you guys eat seven's three Z

(01:01:42):
fours everyone in there, and uh, I ran a couple
of those classes, like you got to kind of make
it a little bit, you know, I forgot how the
it's not brighter or lighter, but just you know, kind
of more uplifting. It's very negative. I'm like, I just
came out of dealing with these people like like you
you know, I'm not the guy if you want a
positive message about the Afghans and this is not this
is not what you're getting. I'm gonna make it as

(01:02:03):
real as I can. And yeah, I'll never forget that.
After I did that training I was like, oh man,
these guys are in trouble. I'm like, they're worried about,
you know, me having a not painting a rosy picture.
I'm like, if I if I'd done that, you guys
would have came back and found me. I'm like, where
were you at? Like what battlespace were you in? Yeah, Afghan,
it was very good.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
And you know what, that whole time I was out there,
we were still dealing with people that had that mentality.
But the fortunate thing was is once we got out
into our own place, like literally the rains were off,
it was it was crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I'm like, we can just do what we want. Like
I just reported every now and then, and.

Speaker 5 (01:02:43):
It's just make marshmallows out of people. This is awesome
money some more well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
So there was definitely a lot of responsibility. But uh,
but our guys really stepped up. I had some young
guys and they really stepped up. So I'm pretty proud
of them. Man, there you come in there as a
mixed match of Pozpodge this and that, and you come
out man like tight like these guys. It was awesome.
I wouldn't take it back. I love that. I liked

(01:03:09):
the culture, you know, work with the Afghans that we had.
I mean, it's crazy over there, but I don't I
don't know what it is, but it's just it was.
It was definitely a great experience.

Speaker 5 (01:03:19):
Would you consider it one of your better years of
your entire military career? Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
It put everything I ever learned, ever wanted all in
one man. I mean, I was very blessed to be
and work with people who I did, and I got
to test it. So when I left Buds and stuff
like that, I always had in the back of my head,
you know what what if you know what if I
kept this place? Tested me? Because my the major that

(01:03:47):
I started to work with there, he was like, normally
this is an EA position and at the time I
was in E six. He says, I think you're ready
for you ready for it, And I'm like, let's do it.
Let's if you think I can do it, I'll go
for it. Man, let's do it. And so h So
that was definitely a challenge that I got put to

(01:04:08):
the test, you know, and it was pretty cool to
uh to have that experience and have the people that
we were with. So so, no, it was one of
my better times there and uh, just go and I
don't I don't knock National Guard. I tell people there
was a time where seventy percent of the people on ground,
boots on ground were National Guard. Man. Yeah, the Guard

(01:04:28):
makes it happen. Man, it's not the Guard or the
old that that people talk about anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:04:33):
Well, after nine to eleven it tested, right, they got
rid of the ghost soldiers, and soldiers stayed and by
the time two thousand and six or eight or nine
come along, anyone that's in the Guard has enlisted or
reenlisted knowing that we're in a global warm terror right.
Not they're not doing it for college money, right. It
was just a different caliber of soldier, right, Those are
just that got out when their en listenment came up.

(01:04:54):
But we would say it all the time as we
talked about people brought a lot of savine skills. They
were cops, they were engineered, they were carpenters, they were whatever.
And you need that on an ETT mission when you're
a handful of people on a small fob and you
have to supply everything yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Right, they literally doing everything. It breaks, you got to
figure it out.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
Active duty can't do that, right. They a lot of
those guys, and I was active like you. I mean,
they come in from the high school, this at whatever
they go in, all they know is army. They don't
have unless they just happen to have learned it as
a kid because their parent did it. They don't have
those skills. They don't come from that. And that ett
mission was built for the National Guard. I mean it
was that's that's that's who are always the most successful. Yeah,

(01:05:33):
where is the National Guard? Because they bring they also
know how to deal with Savillians and they understand civil
rights and even though Afghans have different you know where
you know, armies just you know, bodies, bloody bodies and
see one thirty rolling down the strip and just you
know that kind of stuff. You know, there are a
lot of guys on my team that you know, understood
that these are the people's homes were going in. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
It's a good point, man. I never thought of it
that way, but you're right, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
Yeah, they understand that. You know, these days, I wouldn't
want someone coming to my house doing this because they
know they're going to doing that, They're gonna go back
and live in the house and and that kind of thing.
And it just seemed to have more when we worked
along with eighty second, tenth mount whatever you could tell,
we just cared ourselves differently, and we just treated people
a little bit differently, even though we'd pop a dude
in a second if they were bad. But you know,

(01:06:16):
we just kind of it seemed like the National Guard,
not just my team, but all the teams respected that
the local populace a little bit better, yeah than sometimes
active duty does.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
But yeah, you need that discernment. For the type of
war that we were in. That discernment is valuable.

Speaker 5 (01:06:30):
Yeah, So do you wrap up? We talked about a
lot about your career in service, anything that you're doing
still around, anything you want to talk about, or anything
you want to mention before I let you go that.
We just didn't cover any any any event or story
or well.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
One thing I saw was Doug Mullin said his kids
both graduated from ACU. So, Doug, if you're still listening,
tell your kids. I said, Hi, that's cool, great college.
I'm sure they did great with that. So I didn't
want to miss I just saw you wrote that there.

Speaker 5 (01:07:00):
He was a longtime friend. I think I'm we're the
godparents of his kids.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:07:03):
He was my mortar platoon leader in uh In, Alaska
in the in the five over first. So we go
way back and I see Doug a couple of times
a year usually, so yeah, yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
He wants to he wants to see you. Uh your
crazy story still, so that's good.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
I like it. Yeah, that's cool, Doug.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Thanks for your service, Doug. That's awesome. No, you know what,
been very lucky. I never I said I would stay
in the military until I wasn't having fun anymore. Man
Like I said, I wasn't. I wasn't expecting to never
get into it. So when I got into it, and
twenty three years later, I was sitting in a literally
on a little recon site, just on glass, in the
pouring rain, mud, mosquitoes, spiders all over me, and I

(01:07:42):
looked to his kid to my left and I go,
I remember when I was his age, looking to the
old guy in my right, going why is he still
doing this? And I said to myself, why am I
still He.

Speaker 5 (01:07:55):
Call his great beards for a reason? Right, yeah, Uh,
even you're a little bit heavy, going to gray. I
don't know how that is, but you just leave that alone, right,
you gotta do what You got a head full of hair,
so you got that on me. So I'm not gonna
say anything. So not that jealous, But you know, do.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
You miss you missed the military though.

Speaker 5 (01:08:15):
I missed the people. I missed the military back in
my military different Now now it's back. It's getting back
that way, Pete up there, it's getting back that way.
But the last four years, I don't know. But uh,
I mean again, look at the rules engagement changing. You know,
you thought you guys were cowboys out there. It was.
It was a lot more when I was there just
a few years earlier. You know it. Uh, I missed

(01:08:38):
the people, right, which is why we all stay in contact.
I mean, and I credit the military one hundred percent
for every one of my successes that I've had in
a severe world or anything else. The skills it taught
me and and things like that is I give one
hundred percent credit to that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
But there's a million dollar question, Troy, Yeah called up
today to go back to Afghanistan.

Speaker 5 (01:08:57):
Would you back to Afghanistan? Boy? That would It's target
rich environment, wouldn't it? If I could go with my team,
is which is why I said when I came back
if I could take my team back, yes, and and
and absolutely and and again.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Walkers walkers and walkers and knes at all.

Speaker 5 (01:09:15):
There may be some hurt backs or whatever, but that's
why we have a lot of meds in the v A.
But uh no, I mean give me that, Ammo, give
me my give me my team. And like I said,
that is a uh, that's a that's a free fire
zone right there. I would I would have. I would, man,
I'd have those birds stacked and racked. They wouldn't be
able to they wouldn't be able to keep them up

(01:09:36):
there with enough ordinance because uh but it's we did
that when we came back, right, some of my guys
went back that were on my team. Uh. And I
knew guys that kept wanting to go back, And I'd
be like, you can't keep chasing the ghosts because the
ghost is not there. The ghost. What you're chasing is
to have what you had the first time. You're never
going to have that team again, no matter what how
many tours you did and where what they what theaters
you went into. The team is what makes it. The

(01:09:58):
people to your left and right is it makes it.
And that's you can never get that back.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
Yeah, your team earned earned the ability to call your
brother man. Like when you say brother, man, that's like
that's someone who said literally some did they died, they
never came home man, Right. So it's such a close community,
and so it's cool. I'm proud of every opportunity I had,
and I think I share that too. I would do that.
I would go back to cool and.

Speaker 5 (01:10:25):
Ask you to throw it back at you. Would you
go back? Would it be? Would you need to be
with those boys again?

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
In my head, I'm still twenty, So I'd give it
everything I could. I'll tell you that I definitely use
more air and stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:10:37):
Now, well we all have, right, we all have. You know,
if I knew now what I know, you know, if
I knew back then what I know now, Yeah, we
would definitely you know, whether that's high school or combat. Right,
It's like if I only knew that back then, you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Know what the like it's because of the cause, man,
I mean, you did you did it for the same
thing I did, man, Like we we we were alive
during nine to eleven, man, And when you watch mothers
and fathers jumping out of a building because that was
the only other option is to die a few seconds
later rather than burn up, Like can you watch that happen?

(01:11:10):
Like it still gets me man like, like if I
if I needed to go back over there, I wouldn't
even hesitate, because I've been blessed with this many years
since that, since that event, and we lost people, and
I'd go back if it was my last stand.

Speaker 5 (01:11:23):
You know, well, as you I was in a unique position, right,
and the fact that I was the son of a
combat vet, and when I was in Desert Storm, and
even later I was in Afghanistan. When I was in
Desert Storm, right, all my dad's s f buddies who
were literally walking legends of Vietnam, that there are movies
and things about we're all writing me letters because we
didn't have email, telling me how they wish they were

(01:11:44):
with me. They knew means this little toe headed kid
run around Bobby's kid, you know, tell me they wish
they were with me, stacking mags and in the foxhole.
And I, you know, I knew these guys, but it
wasn't until even later that I really realized what they
had done. And like there's things made about them. And
then I went and then I come back and then
my own son goes with you and at the same thing,

(01:12:05):
you know, And it was a double edged sword because
I knew what he was getting into. But at the
same time I knew what he was getting.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Into, yeah, having a kid over there, like.

Speaker 5 (01:12:13):
Well, well there right, you mentioned about you want to
make it an away game, not a home game, right,
so we go, and so those that never have seen
it would never have to experience it, especially our kids, right,
we go, so they don't ever have to go through that.
It was a double edged sword knowing that I was
I was when I went, I already knew you guys
were deploying. That's the reason I went when I did.

(01:12:34):
I already knew the brigame was on tap, and I
was like, I'm going knowing that he's there's nothing I
can do to stop it. He's going on over there.
So you know, I was in the completely opposite end
of the country him, So I definitely didn't have an
impact on making the battle space better for him, But
I knew what he was getting into. And that was
also the other the flip side of that coin is like,

(01:12:55):
there was nothing I could do to stop it, and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
It came me, ask me and I say, you know,
being in combat is almost easy, you know what I mean,
Like we were focused on the job.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
It's crazy. It's the best life. Easiness wise, I think
it's it's absolute best.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
Yeah, Like like you know, we didn't have a lot
of time to just sit there and think. Like our wives.
Like my wife would say, like she was afraid when
the phone rang that that was the call. When a
car pulled into our driveway to turn around. She didn't
know if that was a car to tell us that,
you know what I mean, Like they they lived with
that every day, and you and I probably we.

Speaker 5 (01:13:29):
Lived with waking up going to like going on mission.
I'm I gonna eat, I may play some some Xbox.
Uh maybe I'll go over to A and Alan and
then uh, you know whatever, play some more Xbox, go
sit out by the fire pit. Right. That was it? Right?
That was we didn't wear a bullet changes and the
dog crapping on the carpet and uh the water heater leaking,
and we didn't That's what I mean. It was an
easy life. You didn't have all the everyday stuff. It was.

(01:13:52):
We had like four things a day to do. One
of them was not die Neill was maybe kill some
bad dudes, and the other stuff was just filled with boredom.
It and that was it, and it was that's why
I mean, it was an easy life. You know, money
went into the bank, she was handling the payments. All
that stuff was there. You were getting your AMMO, you
got some care packages. Life was good.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
I know. I think we sometimes don't. We underestimate the
role of our wives and the family. We love me.
That's that's tough, man, And you got to experience that
a little bit, I guess is why I was curious
because your son's over there now that and the worst
part is because you actually knew what was going on
on the other end, you know what I mean. Like
my wife didn't know. She she had ideas and what

(01:14:33):
she saw in the news, but she had no idea.

Speaker 5 (01:14:39):
In my position in the unit, I had connect I
had connections to the very top of the brigade, right,
so I knew everyone. I mean, I worked with all
those guys, so I had inside inside track to anything
going on. Knew where he was, I knew what was happening.
Didn't influence it, he said, don't do you know? I
just but I had an inside track that a lot
most family members would never have. I don't know up

(01:15:00):
I saw you or not, but I mean I went
down to brag, took the whole family to see right
for you guys, lot, I was walking around on your guys,
little fake fob because I was first armed Stewart and hey,
first all, what we do? You know? The family? Can
you know? And uh, you know I had that kind
of access. That was a privilege I had, but yeah,
it was it was. It was tough knowing that your

(01:15:20):
little your little boy is not going to come back,
your little boy right now.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
But it's it's cool on the other side that he
kept kept that lineage going on, man, because you have
quite a quite a history in your family, a legacy
of soldiers, you know what I mean, guys who answered
the call. So that's that's pretty cool.

Speaker 5 (01:15:38):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
That's all American right there.

Speaker 5 (01:15:41):
Do what you gotta do. But yeah, so, hey man,
I've kept you a long time. I appreciate it a
lot longer than I said I would. Dave. Great to
see you. We need to catch up more. Yeah, we
don't live far from each other, but we got no
excuse and hopefully we'll be uh, we'll be back and
we'll link up here real soon.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
But well to get together with your man Doug here
because uh, Doug's been powered away on this thing.

Speaker 5 (01:16:02):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
I love it, Doug.

Speaker 5 (01:16:05):
He was here from our retirement party. But I think
you were you did You didn't come to that, did you?
Were you at it? I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
I don't when. What year was that?

Speaker 5 (01:16:12):
It was November nine. I don't know if you were back,
but I don't know if you guys. I think you
guys are.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
I think we came back in December. I thought, yeah,
I might have missed that.

Speaker 5 (01:16:22):
Oh yeah, it was a lot of folks weren't there.
I think you guys might have still been deployed. Yeah,
but uh it was nine, dude, I don't know how
so long ago, but yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, man,
I'll let you go. You have a great night. Thank you,
thanks for one, and be sure and tune in on
Thursday nights. We got a great guest lined up this week.
Check us out here on stewing the nun. Thank you

(01:16:43):
to all our sponsors, but more importantly, thank you to
my good buddy Dave de Julio and

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
All right, great brother, make it easy

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