SATN Episode 373 with Brad Miller

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (01:36):
All right, everyone, welcome to another episode of stew On
the Nut. While I am really zoomed in, let me
let me fix that just touch. Hey everyone, welcome episode
three seventy three, and I am joined tonight with former
Lieutenant colonel Army Lieutenant Colonel Brad Miller, and Brad don't
want to welcome you on to sue a nun show.
None can't be here tonight, but thank you for joining

(01:56):
us and coming on giving us some of your Thursday night.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, of course, you know, thanks for the invite and
appreciate being here and hoping to have a good conversation.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Awesome, awesome. Well you're an Army guy, so you're near
and dear to my heart as an Army brat and
then retired first arm myself, so we can't mess with
each other like I bring on those Marine and Navy guys.
I can always you know, I can bust their chops,
but I guess and I can be able to do
that tonight. But anyways, yeah, well, hey, thank you so much.
You were you were in the military. Uh you were

(02:26):
West Point grad and uh and and went that went
that route, the long Gray line. I guess kind of
give us a little bit of how that, how that happened.
I mean, not everyone can just get into West Point,
and it's an it's not an easy school to get into.
It takes a lot and and kind of what what
took you into the military and so itself.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, it's not an easy school to get into, not
an easy school to get out of having graduated either.
So I don't know how I got in. You know,
I'm assuming that there's another Brad Miller out there that
was coming out of high school the same time I was,
and they got the acceptance packets, you know, grewed up
and he probably had his set. He probably went in
the Naval Academy or whatever, because he did into West

(03:05):
Point because they accidentally sent his acceptance packet to me. So,
but yeah, I was coming out of high school. I
was trying to figure out what I was going to do.
So and I had been thinking about the military for
a couple of years. I was trying to figure out
what I wanted to do, what schools I was going
to apply to. I didn't come from a military family,
but I had been thinking about the military off and

(03:28):
on throughout high school. So applied to West Point, you know,
ended up there, graduated in two thousand and three, and
from there entered the army. So yeah, so two thousand
and three, grad and ended up doing you know, nineteen
years on active duty.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Okay, So he went in in ninety nine, roughly right
before Y two K and the world was going to
melt down. You're like, let me get into West Point.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, well, it's interesting that. So in terms of the
timing that I was there, you know, another thing that
was really interesting was was was nine to eleven. So
nine to eleven, you know, which, of course is in
September of two thousand and one, So that was right
after my third year had started, so I would have
been a junior, you know, so that I mean, we
had just kind of everyone had gone off on their

(04:13):
summer assignments or whatever. Everybody was coming back the academic
year had just started, and then nine to eleven happens,
and so I can remember that whatever the culture was
at West Point before then, it changed pretty quickly. Just
you know, the whole attitude across the entire military had
to change because just now everything became very real, you know,

(04:36):
and very very quickly. And so that that same shift
was immediately apparent at West Point as well, because now
it was Okay, this is you know, this is for real.
Because I think anybody who was in the military at
that time, a couple of days after nine to eleven,
you know, once kind of things started to escalate or whatever,

(04:56):
people started to realize, hey, this is for and people
are going to start deploying over there. And we knew
that too, even as cadets. So I would say that
of all things, that was kind of a defining moment
within my career just just I'm sorry, within my time
at West Point, just something that was happening out there
in the world that was very much going to shape

(05:17):
the military environment. And then when I did graduate in
two thousand and three, this was just a couple of
months after the invasion into Iraq had occurred. So yeah,
my junior and senior year were at West Point, We're
very much shaped by what was starting to go on
in Afghanistan. And then as I was literally ramping up

(05:38):
to graduate, you know, things were starting to kind of
kick off in Iraq as well. So that was kind
of the environment that I was graduating in and then
entering into the army is all that was happening.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, it's interesting you mention that, right, I've talked to
I did half my career active and half in the
National Guard. And I was in New York National Guard
when nine to eleven happened. So you know, I tell people, uh, yeah,
it it became like being on active duty all over again.
Like the whole guard changed, right, And I used to
tell as the first art I used to tell soldiers.
Once we got to about two thousand and four, two

(06:11):
thousand and five, I'm like, the days of I'm enlisting
or re enlisting to get college money were over right,
And and uh, I had soldiers that would come in new,
brand new privates, or I'd have soldiers reenlist. I'm like,
you knew what you were getting into, right, it was
It wasn't. There wasn't like hey, I'm just gonna just
get to pick up some college and get out of here.
After nine to eleven, everyone knew the game had change.

(06:33):
And like you said, I mean I had I had
soldiers that opted. They were like, no, I'm dumb out,
I'm not reenlisted. I'm not doing like okay, it's not
for you. You know, he thought never gonna have to
face that, But for many that do I see as
the lowest private I'd be like, hey, it says a lot.
You came in, whether you know you know what you're
getting into or not. You came in without some preconceived
notion that you were just going to skate and do

(06:54):
one weekend a month or whatever it was.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Because yeah, sure, yeah, totally York.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
It was. It was game on, from airports to power
plants to you know, you name it, everything in New
York City and all that kind of stuff. So I
know what you mean. I can understand what you mean
by a West Point. This is the attitudes changed overnight.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well. And then also with West Point being in New York,
you know, it's only about fifty miles north of New
York City, and I think it's about I want to
say it's about sixty miles north of ground zero specifically,
So in that regard, it also hit pretty close to home.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Right, And you got nuclear power plants by there, which
aren't far away. You got all kind of other stuff,
and yeah, and you had I think, if I remember right,
I mean President Bush was there probably your junior senior year.
I think he spoke at one of the graduating classes.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, the graduating class of two thousand and two, so
the year before I graduated. Yeah, I think he was there.
So that was the bi centennial class. So west Point
was founded in eighteen oh two, so the graduating class
of two thousand and two was considered to be the
bi centennial class. So I think President Bush spoke at
that graduation.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
But yeah, that had to be a pretty awesome thing
because I mean everyone, I mean, he was just motivating
everyone and everyone was fired up, right, I mean everyone
was ready.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
To Yeah, so I was, believe it or not. I
was actually not at that graduation ceremony, so I had
I was going on a summer trip, so there was
a there was a summer trip as part of West
Point that I was on with a couple of other
cadets and we went to Honduras and Belize for about
fifteen days. And I remember that we had to depart

(08:37):
a couple of days before graduation. So classes were all
done and none of us that were going we weren't
we weren't graduating, we were all you know. Yeah, I
had just finished my junior year, so a couple of
us had just finished either sophomore year or junior year.
But there was a group of us that left, So
I actually missed that graduation ceremony. But yeah, it was

(08:57):
but it was a big deal. I mean that was
a you know, that was a crazy time kind of
that two thousand and one to two thousand and three
to two thousand and four kind of time period, the
early years of the Global War on Terror. I mean,
just a crazy time.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Well, Afghanistan was a free fire zone at that point.
It was a you know, we were trying to figure
things out when you had Taku Gar and all that
kind of stuff, and then you had the roll into
Iraq and three and you know, it was Yeah, it
was a lot of people to know we were just
steamrolling back in like we did back in Desert Storm.
And yeah, and probably a lot of young budding almost

(09:30):
cadets and lieutenants were you know, probably a lot of
everyone to be infantry, I'm sure, and everyone wanted to
get into the fight.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Everyone did want to be infantry. So that is that
is a true statement. So so in my class, and
part of the reason that I that I did not
become an infantry officer is because I wanted to be one.
I had always wanted to be one since probably the
end of my first year, and I put it as
my number one choice, but so did I don't know,

(09:59):
thirty plus percent of all the graduating males, and they
ran out of slots, and so so I got my
second choice, which was actually engineers. And then so I
spent I spent you know, my career pretty much as
a as an engineer's combat engineer. But but yeah, infantry
had been far and away my number one choice, and
I was devastated that I didn't get it. And then, uh,

(10:20):
you know a lot of my classmates that did get infantry.
And then anyway, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
So you didn't get branch detailed. I don't know if
they do that West Point like they do some of
the other arts.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah they do. Yeah, so so guys can get you know,
branch detailed. You know, guys may go be an infantryman
for a couple of years and then go military intelligence
or or yeah, something along those lines.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
So yeah, that still occurs, Yeah, those kind of things. Yeah. Okay,
so you were engineer whole time, and uh, and you
did nineteen years. You were deployed, I mean deployed and
station number places probably Oconas and Ocona's right, you probably
its did your command times company commander all that kind
of stuff. I know, you were in Honduras, right, I was, Yeah,

(11:06):
I was.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
It was so interestingly enough as a cadet, you know,
I mentioned a couple of minutes ago that we took
a trip to Honduras. So then approximately ten years later
I was back there, actually stationed there for a year.
So that was interesting. You know, who knew that I
would ever return to Sutokana, which is a little air
base in Honduras. But yeah, so I spent a year there.
That was actually the first job that I really held

(11:28):
as a major. So I was there from twenty thirteen
to twenty fourteen, and I enjoyed it. I've always enjoyed
Latin America. I've spent a lot of time in Latin America.
A lot of people in the military are not familiar
with the mission that kind of happens out of Stocano Airbase.
The name of the unit is Joint Task Force Bravo.
But I had a great time there, and it's it's

(11:49):
pretty interesting because there's there's a strong military to military
relationship to the United States enjoys with a lot of
the militaries all across Central and South America and So
I've been fortunate enough in my career that in a
variety of positions I've had, I've worked with a lot
of foreign militaries, to include a lot of the ones

(12:11):
across Latin America. And one of those opportunities, of course,
was when I was in Honduras for a year. So
I actually really enjoyed that a different mission set than
what you're going to see, you know, if you're in Afghanistan.
So I mean I deployed a couple of times Afghanistan,
but then I also spent this year in Honduras. I
spent almost three years in South Korea, So you know,

(12:31):
I feel like I had a diverse career and got
to see a couple of different mission sets and so
for me, that just made my overall time in the
military maybe, you know, pretty enriching.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah. Absolutely, you got to see the world, right, as
they would say, and.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
As they would say, yeah, so you did how long Korea?

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Three and a half years?

Speaker 2 (12:49):
I did almost three. Yeah, so it was a two
year assignment and then I extended for a third year.
So this was I was a senior major at the time.
I pinned on lieutenant while I was there. So for
those who are familiar with the way that the officer
track would look for an army officer. So I had
already been a battalion operations officer, and then I'd been

(13:11):
a brigade executive officer. I did that at the tenth
Mountain Division back in New York, actually in Fort Drum,
New York. So I did that and then kind of
as a senior major. Then I took a joint assignment
in Korea. So I was there for two years. But
then while I was there, I got picked to be
the executive officer to a three star and I stayed

(13:33):
on to take that position for a third year. So
so stayed a third year in South Korea and then
returned back to state side.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Okay, yeah, that wasn't like an a company and a
company tour, was it? The two year was that when
they were doing it?

Speaker 2 (13:48):
So yeah, I mean I'm not married. I wasn't married
at the time, so it didn't it didn't necessarily mean
much to me one way or the other. But generally
those two year assignments would be accompanied.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah in Korea eighty ninety and uh, okay, you know,
it's one year hardship blah blah, blah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
our guy. I wish I would extend it as soon
as I got back to the States. I wish i'd
have stayed because in eighty ninety, short of Panama, that
was the only thing that was real deal for an
mstry guy. And uh, now where were you a Camp Greaves?

(14:18):
So I was right there on the Imgin River. All
got turned over I think, uh probably before you turned
over to the Rock, so it was no I think
the American you know, all they had was JSA up there.
I'm not sure that any American forces up there except
for the ones that rotate through. We used to come
summer camp because you know, we did the winter mission
because we lived there. But you know, they grew other

(14:41):
units in there to be q RF and stuff for.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, and even now they've they've turned over even more bases.
But I spent the first year on Young Sun in Seoul,
and then I spent the other two years at Humphries.
So they they built Humphries and then they moved the command,
so the big four Star Command they moved from Seoul

(15:05):
to Camp Humphreys. And so when the command moved, I
ended up moving with it. But I am very familiar
with kind of the engine River where JSA is because
the assignment that I had, So, I worked for the
what was called the United Nations Command Military Armisist Commission,
and so we were the ones who would control the
DMZ on behalf of the command of the for Star Commander.

(15:27):
So so we would work very closely with the JSA
Security Battalion. But then also we had guys from our
own unit that would work right there in the JSA
or would work along other spots of the DMZ, and
we would do a lot of periodic inspections in the DMZ.
So I spent I spent a lot of time in
and around various parts of the DMZ. So, yeah, Korea

(15:49):
is a cool place.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah, I wish, Uh, I really wish, like say, I
would have stayed. I had some of my greatest memories
are from there. Some of the best people are were
and it was it was, you know, a real deal mission,
it seem especially back then, you know. And uh, yeah,
so were you were you in Korea when Abe Abrams
was the four Star? I was, Yeah. Abe was my

(16:10):
company commander Desert Storm, Okay, and uh we have maintained
tight relationships and good friendships ever since. And I don't
know how an E five mortar guy and a and
a company commander that had everything in the on Ford
head and named after him. Uh but uh yeah, we
went to a desert storm together and all that. And
then I remember he got NTC commander. I was actually
in a phone and when he got when he found

(16:30):
out he was getting a star and was going there,
and uh that was it was a good one. He
was surfing actually at the time, which was pretty funny,
and then got four star after he left, you know.
Third I d and which is last time I saw him.
He went to Pentagon and then went there and went
a long time, and I used to talk to him.
He's in Korea. I'm like, how much long are they
leaving you there? I'm like, man, you've been there a
long time. And uh now he's wonderfully retired and joint life.

(16:53):
But yeah, Abe and I go way way back.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
So yeah, he's funny. So so he got there. So
the last year that I was there, he took command.
So I was there from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty.
So when I got there, General Brooks, his predecessor, was
in command, but I have a funny story about Abrams.
I'll tell you just a moment. But but when I

(17:16):
got there in the fall of twenty seventeen, it was
fire and fury, remember all the rhetoric, you know, fire
and fury. Little rocketman, my red button is bigger than yours. Like,
that's that's the environment that I'm kind of going going
to Korea within. That's everything that's kind of happening. And
I'm like, man, is this about to pop off? And

(17:38):
and and Koreans were not freaking out at all, like
when I got there, Like the South Koreans were just
like this is just you know, typical. But anyway, but
three years later, the big thing is is you know
all the madness with COVID, Well I was. I was
in South Korea when all of this was kind of happening.
But right as I was about to leave, so I
had penned on lieutenant colonel and I had been selected

(17:59):
for command. So I ended up taking a command of
a battalion in the one hundred and first Airborne Division.
But I got selected for command, and Abrams was my
senior raider, so I was that last year I was
the the EXO to a three star who was my raider,
and then his boss, which was Abrams. The four Star
was my senior raider, but I never really had any

(18:20):
personal interactions with him. And and Abrams has a reputation,
you know for kind of being, you know, haughty and strict.
And so I am. I am leaving Korea. I am
out processing, and I got my packet of stuff, and
I got to go around all these places around the
installation and get all the signatures in order to leave Korea.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
I got do Lieutenant Colonels, go to the turtle farm?
Is that still a thing? Was there a thing called
the turtle farm? Was that ever?

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah? The turtle Farm? I feel like, why do I?
I feel like I do recognize that name, but I
can't recall exactly what it was.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
It was. It was the processing out processing replacement. So
the in processing building was here, and there was a
ditch about a foot wide between that and the outprocessing building,
and they called the turnofarms. It took you a year
to go from one building to the one right next door.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, but where was that on? What base was that on?

Speaker 1 (19:13):
I was in? That was on TDC. That was in
It was in UH and Tung down in UH camp Casey.
I'm sorry camp Casey.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Okay, yeah, cool. Yeah, And so I was, I was
at Humphreys. But but I I think that that like
cultural memory and that name, like I think still persist
because I would hear people talk about that. But so
I'm walking out of the building and uh, Abrams is
coming in and I'm walking out. I got my packet,
I got to go do some outprocessing, and I hear

(19:39):
this big booming voice that is like and I'm getting
ready to walk out the door, but there's nobody around
this little hallway and I turned around and it's Abrams
and like his driver and stuff and me. So I'm like,
I guess he's talking to me. So I'm like, yes, sir.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
He's like, hey, are you the one that's gonna go
take command of a battalion and one hundred and first
And I'm like yes, sir. And he's like, hey, I
want you to come talk to me. I got some
advice for you.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
And I'm like okay, I'm like all right, sir. So anyway,
so so I go do whatever I gotta do. I
come back that afternoon and I go up to his
front office and I'm talking to the guy who would schedule,
you know, on his calendar. And so I go in
and I'm talking to that guy and I'm like, hey,
I ran into General Abrams, you know, downstairs earlier today

(20:28):
and he told me that he wants to talk to me.
He's got some advice for me for command. And the
guy just started chuckling and he's like, hey, found out
you guys select for command. He just wants to meet
with you. So anyway, so a couple of days pass,
I'm supposed to have fifteen minutes with General Abrams, you know,
one on one, and we ended up speaking for about
fifty five minutes, you know, and just had a great
talk just about battalion command and all kinds of stuff.

(20:50):
So anyway, that was kind of my one on one
interaction with General Abrams. But I leave his office and
the chief of staff, who was a two star, was
supposed to meet with Abrams after me, but we ran
forty minutes over. So he's been outside abrams office kind
of waiting and he's like, oh, so it was you
that was in there monopolizing the boss's time. Anyway, It's

(21:11):
just kind of funny, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
He's I've said it for a year he's a soldier,
soldier and he was probably one of the last left
in the g O rank and uh and you know
he was that that was him. I mean, uh, he
buddies of mind that I deployed Afghanistan with. They they
after I retired, they were our brigade was in JRTC
and he went and found that. He walked into the
top of the twenty seven Brigade, New York Army National

(21:34):
Guard and walked in said, who here knows Troy Steward
and Budy. Oh really, he's an off star major. And
he's like, he goes, come here, let's get a picture
and send them. And my buddy does not do selfies
and stuff. Maxime. I get a text from Abrams it's
me and my buddy Ron and it's he's like, takes
a picture in the top and everyone's just staring because
you know, I think that time, I think he was
a Forstcar Force com Commanders. He was three star and

(21:57):
like the three starters walked in, yelled out and one
of the brigade knows my name. I just retired not
too long so one they all flipped out because he
said my name, and two he grabs US nine and
they do a selfie together and he could send it
to me and I was like, oh, I guess he
We're good with him and uh and he sends it
to me and I'm like what and he goes, yeah,

(22:17):
I guess what I'm hanging out with, Like, yeah, you're
my brigade. Awesome. I retired several years ago.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, he's a good cat, I miss. I haven't reached
out to him, but he's been on his show a
number of times.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Okay, okay, cool.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Oh his PAO when he was third I D commander,
he used to flip out because he would just call
in and the PO had to sit on the line
and had no control over there. You get fifteen minutes
with the old man, Okay. An hour later, it's like
talking about whatever he wants to talk about. Yeah. He
tell me he would text me to see my PAO
is twitching out over here. So yeah, good people. Well, hey,

(22:53):
so you did you went on to you went on
to Fort Campbell Engineer Battalion. How'd that go?

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah? Well yeah, so that was in twenty twenty one.
So I took command in twenty twenty one. I took
command in June, and you know, generally that would be
a twenty four month command. I was in command for
about four and a half months. I got and then
you know, long story short is, I got relieved to
command for refusing to comply with the COVID shot mandate,

(23:22):
which I was never going to go along with. The
was there was never a chance that I was going
to comply with it. But even more than that, on
the day that I took command, I knew that there
was no way that I would be in command for
two years. I mean, I knew with you know, surety,
that I was going to be fired, and so that

(23:42):
would happen about four and a half months later. And
then so I took command on June tenth. On August
twenty fourth, so about two and a half months later,
that's when dud implemented the COVID shot mandate. About two
months after that, that's when I was relieved a command.
And then so at that time, I had about eighteen
and a half years and I was like, Okay, what

(24:06):
am I supposed to do?

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Now?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
You know, I'm a Battalian commander. I'm a lieutenant colonel
who's just been fired from Battalian command. I'm a year
and a half away from qualifying for retirement. You know,
what am I supposed to do? And what is going
on with our military? What's going on with our government? Right? So,
long story short. Once I realized the depth of I

(24:31):
would say of this, exactly what was happening with this
mandate and just how unequivocally unlawful it was. And the
fact that it became clearer and clearer that DED was
not going to walk it back. That's when I ultimately resigned.
So I ended up resigning. And by the time that
I actually got out and finished my time, I had

(24:52):
served nineteen years, three months, and fifteen days on active duty.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
And there was no way you could have stayed longer
and not had the shot, right.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
I mean, there's there's there's maybe. I mean, could I
have found ways to stall, Yeah, probably, but I but
I wasn't going to do it. So like, I never
I never submitted for a religious accommodation request. Now, could
I have done that? Yes? Did I consider it?

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (25:20):
But correct, that's correct. But I never even but I
never even tried because sometimes what people would do is
they would get one, they would submit it, you know,
it would go through the approval process, which would take
some time, it would come back denied, and then they
would try to appeal. But meanwhile, while that's happening, they're

(25:40):
buying themselves some time.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
You know.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
So being at nineteen years you know, where I was,
is it possible that I could have have stalled for time? Yeah? Probably,
But I wasn't going to do it. It was a principal
thing because you know, I I thought, I thought this
was treason, and I still think it was treason. And
so I, you know, I got to look myself in
the mirror every day and I and I was like,

(26:04):
there's not there's no one in this organization that I
want to work for, no one. And yeah, I might
have left with you know, my career having ended prematurely.
Yeah that's true, and I don't have a retirement pension,
and I lost my job, which is a well paying job.
All those things are true. But I also left with
my oath to the Constitution unbroken, you know, and I

(26:27):
left with my integrity intact. You can't put a dollar sign,
you can't attach you know, a dollar figure to either
of those. And so that's the way that I felt,
and that's the way that I still feel now. So no,
I don't regret it. I'm frustrated. I'm angry that I
was ever placed into that situation. But I got to
a point where, and I know this is going to
seem paradoxical to a lot of people, but I got

(26:49):
to the point where I could not reconcile continued service
in the institution with the oath that I had taken
to the Constitution. So I know that sounds weird, but
I felt like the military had completely lost its way.
Now fast forward, you know, three or four years, and
I think that that is even more clear than it

(27:11):
was then. And to me it was pretty clear then.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, I mean it. I can't imagine the pressure that
you faced, you know, being a lieutenant colonel in command
from your peers and a number above you at six
o seven whatever level of command of them going to
just play along, just go with it. Just I mean,
I can imagine what was your sarmy major, what was he?
What was he? Was he supportive of this? I mean,

(27:38):
was the NCO core were they? Was there anyone on
your not on your side, either in publicly or behind
the scenes, kind of.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Like you know, it's a good question. So was there
really anybody on my side? No? Not really, not really.
I mean, I just I have to be honest. Now,
I will tell you this. So you mentioned my sergeant major,
My starry Major was a good dude, I don't think.

(28:08):
I don't think we quite saw eye to eye on
that issue. He knew where I stood. He never tried
to talk me out of it. I think he just
realized like that that was just there was no way
he was going to be able to talk me out
of it. So I think he kind of accepted it.
But I don't But I don't think he I clearly,
I don't think he agreed with my position on it

(28:30):
and probably thought that I was being, you know, unnecessarily
zealous or whatever. I think my predecessor thought the same thing. Now,
my predecessor, the guy that I took command from, he
did so. I had told him. In fact, we had
a conversation. This is before I got to Fort Campbell
and I had a conversation with him and I told him, Hey,

(28:52):
this is the man that had not gone into effect yet,
but the writing was on the wall. Everybody knew it
was coming. And I said to him, Hey, what's the
attitude there with the COVID shots. Oh, by the way,
I haven't taken the shot and I'm not going to.
And I was met with silence on the phone. I
think he did not know what to say when I
kind of you know, mentioned that to him. So anyway,

(29:14):
but we had, you know, other conversations about it. Then
I get to Fort Campbell and he and I go through,
you know, a ten day transition or whatever. He's as
he's leaving and I'm coming in. But I do remember
after I got relieved, that guy sent me a text
and was like, dude, I can't remember exactly what he said,
but he said something like, I admire your conviction that

(29:35):
you saw this through, like you stuck to your guns
to the point that they relieved you of command and
you you know so. But even people like that who
reached out to me afterwards were very few and far between.
I did have one of my company commanders who reached
out later and told me that they felt like they

(29:56):
had suffered an injury from the shot. This is like
two years later. I got a text that basically said,
is this Lieutenant Colonel Miller? And I said yes, And
then the response that I got back was you were
right not to take the shot. So anyway, so we
ended up talking on the phone and basically the story
that I got, which has been shared publicly. So I'm

(30:16):
not necessarily this individual has already gone public with the
story about this, so I'm not sharing anything that you know,
I'm not violating boy his privacy here. But basically this
individual had shared that that they felt they had been
injured by the shot. So yeah, I got a couple
of people like that who reached out to me. In
my battalion, people were very cool with me. I mean

(30:38):
I never really, you know, caught people behind my back
kind of talking about the fact that I wouldn't take
the shot or whatever. My brother battalion commanders, so my peers,
you know, same thing. The brigade commander. The brigade commander
was a good dude. I mean, I think he's completely
wrong on this issue. I think he's as much of
a coward as the rest of them. But he was
a good dude, and he was a good dude to me,

(31:00):
even though I was kind of under the gun just
like everybody else was. He never put undue pressure on me.
He did tell me, like, hey, go take the shot.
But he did that because that's what everybody was doing
to their subording. So I not taken the shot, but
he knew exactly where I stood. I had made it
very clear. And then the division commander was JP McGee.

(31:20):
He's now a three star, but he was he was
a two star. He was the eight or he was
the one hundred and first airborne commander at the time,
and he, you know, we had a one on one
meeting about it, and I had told him I wasn't
going to take the shot. He knew that. And even
though he's the one who ultimately relieved me, for the

(31:42):
most part, I felt like even we kind of had
an understanding as to where we were on this issue.
We were two gentlemen, both army officers, both commanders, on
opposite sides of an issue. He just happened to be
a two star and I was a lieutenant colonel, and
he just happened to be on the same side of
the army and I wasn't. So, you know, we know

(32:03):
how that's gonna work out. I do believe that I
was on the side of the constitution. I do believe
that I was on the side of the law. I
do believe that I was on the side of the truth.
I do believe that I was on the side of
the country. I believe he was on the wrong side
of all of that. And as much as I thought
that four years ago, I think that's that's much much,
much much clearer now. So, yeah, do I think all

(32:23):
these generals and colonels are cowards? Absolutely? Would I go
back into the army right now? No? No, No, you didn't.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Do you get the call? Did you get the offer
to come back in that? That? I know some have done,
I think around eight or nine.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
But yeah, I don't know that. I don't know that
anybody's called me. If they have, is from a number
that I didn't recognize it an answer. But but I
actually did call and and tried to talk to somebody
and talk to some civilians who had no idea about
the questions that I was asking him. So I don't
really feel like an offer has been made to me.

(32:58):
But also I think that there's I think there are
a lot of illusions that DoD is propagating as to
what's actually happening with the reinstatement process compared to reality,
And so a lot of what DoD is saying is
happening with the reinstatement process is just frankly, just not true.

(33:20):
I don't think they're moving as quickly as they want
everyone to believe when it comes to offering reinstatement. I
also think that what they're truly offering is different than
kind of the illusion that they've created. So there are
two very clear categories of people according to DoD. There
are those that they consider to have left the military involuntarily,

(33:43):
which means you didn't take the COVID shot and you
were kicked out, And then there is a m by
the way, That number, according Todd, is considered to be
about eighty six hundred folks across all the military who
were kicked out against their will because they didn't take
the COVID shot. There is a much larger group and
many estimates say one hundred k or larger of individuals

(34:04):
that DoD considers to be voluntary separations. So that would
be people like me who resigned. That would be people
who their term of enlistment was up and they chose
not to re enlist because they weren't going to take
the shot. But if it weren't for the shot, they
probably would have re enlisted. And it probably even includes
people who let's say you were at twenty or twenty

(34:24):
one years, so you were retirement eligible, but you might
have otherwise stayed to thirty, but you chose to retire
because you were already eligible and you didn't want to
take the shot. So all those individuals DoD considers to
be voluntary separations, and their reinstatement package is a lot different.
So there are two major differences between those groups, if

(34:46):
they can. Three.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Were they flagging people getting like the ones that you
talked about that didn't reenlist where especially enlisted folks, right?
Were they were they flagging them, not allowing them to reenlist,
and flagging them of favorable actions when they refused to
take it, because it was they were essentially breaking a
a lawful order right by not taking it?

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Was that the well right, But now d D has
come out and said that the whole mandate was unlawful.
So the whole time they were telling you, like, if
you look at my relief for cause EVO, it says
I failed to disobey a lawful order. That's a lie.
That is a lie. You know, I knew it was
a lie at the time. I didn't challenge it because

(35:23):
I knew that the whole you know, I'd be challenging
the whole weight of the army. But it was a lie.
But now hag Seth has come out both verbally and
in writing and said that the mandate was unlawful, which
means people like me who got relieved to command were
unlawfully relieved with command. But to your question, there were
people who faced all types of of unlawful coercion because

(35:46):
they did not obey this order that everyone was going
around saying was a was a lawful order. So this
is why it's problematic that they draw such a such
a clear line between the voluntary and the involuntary separations,
because the line's actually a lot more fuzzy. Because when
you back people into a corner and you force them

(36:06):
to comply with something that is unlawful, and you deprive
them of their constitutionally protected rights, which even service members have,
then it's you can't. You can't then say that their
separation was voluntary when you were backing them into a
corner trying to get them to either allow themselves to
be deprived of their rights or comply with an unlawful order.

(36:28):
But here's the major difference between those two groups. The
way DD looks at it, if you are involuntarily separated,
So if you were kicked out and you didn't want
to leave and they kicked you out, then what they
would say is, Okay, we're going to offer you reinstatement
and when you come back in, we're going to credit
you for the time that you lost. So let's say

(36:48):
there was exactly three years between the day that you
were kicked out and the day you put the uniform
back on. They would credit you three years as time served,
and they would offer you the back Now that comes
with a lot of stipulations. But this group over here,
the much larger group potentially one hundred k of individuals
that they consider to be voluntary separations, there's no credit

(37:10):
for time loss as time served, and there's no back pay.
So you can also come back in, you could put
the uniform back on. Hopefully you can pick back up
roughly where you left off, but you will have lost
those three years or whatever. I say three years, because
that's about what it would be for me. But even
with the back pay that they're offering, well, that also

(37:30):
comes with a lot of stipulations because they calculate a
lot of offsets. So during that three year time period
in which you were out of the military, well, you
probably went and got another job. So they're going to
factor in all of that pay that you made, and
then they're going to calculate that as an offset. So
that's going to largely decrease what they're going to pay

(37:53):
you in terms of the back pay settlement.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
So they're gonna say, just for numbers, right, Okay, you
lost one hundred and fifty thousand dollars over three years, right,
E five or so, it makes about fifty grand or so. Right, Uh,
and with everything depending on they're married, blah blah blah. Yeah,
but let's that and oh, you went and got a
job for that three years, and in that time of
three years, you made one hundred thousand. So here's just

(38:17):
fifty thousand to back pay. You come back as an
E five, Right, you still got to get back in
the you gotta get back in the promotion schedule. Right.
They're not gonna be like, oh, you'd be an E
six by then here's your E six. Right you said So.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
A lot of people are criticizing that because a lot
so that's a great question so if they credit you
left as an E five, you come back three years later, Okay,
they're gonna give you that fifty k, not the one
fifty k, because they're gonna they're gonna calculate that one
hundred k offset that you made at your other job
over three years, right, so they'll offer you fifty K.
And then they're gonna say, hey, we're gonna credit you

(38:51):
three years of time, serve three years of service, you know,
to to calculate that time that you were out. So
then here's where it gets tricky. So what does that mean?
Would that put you over the hump for E six
or hey, is there a schooling assignment that you missed
or is there some other some other thing that you

(39:11):
would have needed to make you competitive for promotion that
you missed because you were you were you know, you
were kicked out or whatever, you know. And then here's
the other thing. There are people who didn't get kicked out.
There are people who maybe they were going through that
process of the religious accommodation request and so that was

(39:34):
being litigated over time and they were kind of able
to stall install. Maybe they made it up to the
point where the mandate was rescinded, which happened in January
of twenty twenty three. So there were people whose careers
were salvaged at the last moment, but for two years
that individual might have been you know, or you know,
a year and a half or so, that person might
have been totally marginalized. So they still may have lost

(39:58):
a promotion opportunity, or they may have lost a favorable
assignment going somewhere where they wanted to go, or or
a schooling opportunity or whatever. So what do you do
to make that up for them? Or have you marginalized
their career in a way that's going to be hard
for them to repair?

Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know, yeah, oh it's great you were going to
be coming to commander, but you spent that year and
a half being in charge of the mess hall that
was a lieutenant captains and yeah that's just you know,
deal with it, you know, or get the.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Do or your ev oul report, right, you know, your
EVA out report that you got from being the person
who didn't want to go along with the.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
We're not shot. We're not going to get a one
blocker or two block as an officer.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
So are those going to get expunged? So see there
are a lot of questions that still have to be
have to be corrected. But here's the other thing. So
if we talk numbers, so d D wants you to
believe that eighty six hundred people lost their careers because
they focus on that very small number of those that
were involuntarily kicked out. What people like me continually say

(40:57):
is it's more like one hundred k than represents the
full number of people who lost their careers, specifically because
of the COVID shot mandate. So of those two groups,
how many people have come back. Well, if you look
at the numbers of the eighty six hundred, you know,
those involuntarily separated. I believe the latest numbers that I've seen,

(41:17):
which are as of about a week and a half ago,
supposedly seventeen have come back and put the uniform on.
Of the much larger group, the one hundred K, three
three have come back in and put the uniform back on.
So here's where it gets tricky. Of that eighty six hundred,

(41:37):
only seven hundred and some you know, have even expressed
interest in coming back, so less than ten percent. And
of the ten percent that have even expressed interest, only
about ten percent of those have actually started to you know,
submit a packet, and of those, only seventeen have actually
finished the process and supposedly been reinstated.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Well, let's let's just call it what it is, right,
Those are probably, i would say it's safe to those
are probably people that didn't have a good job or
didn't have a good, good, uh good career from the out.
They got the guys and gals that got out and
made it and got a new career and started a
new job that pays well, they're probably going, why would
I'm gonna go back to that?

Speaker 2 (42:18):
I want to go back?

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, I mean they're like, oh, I missed the military,
I missed my friend, but you know, time has passed.
They're on, I'm not gonna go back to the same
platoon or same company or whatever, or the same job.
And if and god forbid, they're an officer or a
field there's much or a senior n c O. There
was gonna be like, hey, welcome back. They're gonna everyone's
gonna give you that side eye. Right.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
So that's kind of the the unspoken question. If these
individuals come back, is there now going to be this
uh this you know us and them mentality? On both sides,
you know, because they're gonna be They're gonna be people
like me, where I freely admit if I were to
go back, I mean, there's not a there's not a
there's not a gen rule in the army that I

(43:01):
want to work for, you know, at all. I think
they're all cowards, you know, all of them, zero exceptions,
because when their country needed the most, they chose to
side against their country, against the constitution, against the rule
of law. And the thing is is, I know there
was a lot of obfuscation that was going on when

(43:22):
when the COVID shot mandate came out. There were because
there was a lot of lying. There was a lot
of collusion between d D and the FDA to misrepresent
an unlicensed product as being interchangeable with a fully licensed product.
I mean willful collusion that was going on between DoD
and FDA. So I know, I mean there were crimes
that were very clearly and unequivocally committed. Dd is now

(43:45):
admitted to it being unlawful. But I realized that people
may not have necessarily understood that in August of twenty
twenty one, but that was four years ago. So much
has come out there have been so many red flags,
so many questions, so much new information that has come out,
and not a single.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Right which is probably why you heard from some of
those people after going man, you did the right thing.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
We shouldn't have got the shot all that stuff. But
even that number was very very very very few and
far between. But I'll tell you what I didn't hear from.
I didn't hear from any generals. I didn't hear from
any admirals. I didn't hear from any colonels.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
You know, I have same leaders that let Afghanistan happen
the way it happened, right, sure, which is well pissed
off at uh and sick. I could see what you say.
There's no one I'd want to work for because there
are there there were many that could have thrown their
rank down. I'd been like, this is absolutely yeah, we
are doing this wrong and I can't be part of
an organization that conducts operations.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Like this bingo.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
So you know, when you're in the military, you know
you got to you gotta be able to trust your leaders,
you know, and that doesn't mean that you expect your
leaders to be perfect. You know they're not. They're not
going to get everything right. They're not going to know
everything you know, and and I understand that, but you
gotta expect. First of all, you got to expect a
certain level of competence. But there's also got to be

(45:08):
a certain level of adherence to values. You know, in
the army, I mean, we have the Army values. So
if I go down the list of the Army values,
well as an organization, you know, the senior leaders violated
every single one. So where is this sense of you know,
the the the military has a very well established ethos.

(45:29):
You know, we talk about it all the time, right,
you know, you you want to believe that the people
to your left and right that they want to be
members of the team, that they will they will, they
will sacrifice of themselves for the team. And I'm not
even talking necessarily about the ultimate sacrifice. I'm just talking
in general terms, right, you know, sacrificing giving of themselves

(45:49):
for the good of the team. You know, teamwork, people
realizing that they're part of something that is bigger than themselves.
And you you have to assume that your leaders are
going to do the right thing and that are operating lawfully.
And I can't say that about a single senior military leader,
because when push came to shove, they all proved to

(46:11):
be weak, pathetic cowards. I mean I could go on
and that's strong language, but I mean it to be strong,
you know.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Yeah, no, I I get it. And that's especially when
I look at someone at your rank, you know, at
that level O five, you come back in. Let's say
they let you back in, they do the offsets. Who
knows you Maybe you have to pay them money. I
don't know. And uh, you know again, you're gonna put
you right in the mix. Okay, let's go get you
assignment to finish up the other year and a half
of your command time. No right, they're gonna stick in

(46:40):
some staff, we any position, and uh and just make
it miserable. And and you know they're gonna unless you
unless someone gets in a position of authority that says, oh,
this person's solid regardless of what happened. The chance of that,
I mean you might as well start playing the power ball.
I mean, it isn't gonna happen. They're just gonna be like,
put them over in the corner and let him finish

(47:00):
his time. You're not gonna get a chance compete for
oh six, you're not going to get a chance for
you know, hell, look at look at General master Man.
You know he wrote this, you know, A big fan
of his. I mean, he was in Desert Storm. He was,
he was a current he was a battalion commander for
my old star major you know, wrote the letter is
part of War College, damning the officers that led Vietnam

(47:20):
and how Vietnam is such a failure. That guy sat at
one star longer than anyone I've ever known. I mean
I was blown away when he got a second star
because I never thought he was ever going to get
past that. Because he called people out. Yeah, it took
a long time for them to retire out and flush
through and get new new leaders get in place where
they necessarily weren't but hurt over that.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, Yeah, I agree, Yeah, those are it's a it's
a great it's a great comparison there with what happened
with Vietnam. Uh, you're right that he called that out,
you know, wrote about it. And then you also mentioned,
you know, I was talking about the COVID shop mandate.
But as you mentioned, and at the exact same time,

(48:02):
the COVID shot mandate went into effect, we had the
botched Afghanistan withdrawal. So to me, those are both symptoms
of the same type of problem. So what happened? So
you get a Batalian commander over in the Marine Corps
dus Sheeller. So what does he do? You know, people
may remember his video that he got in big trouble
for because he made his video. You know, he ends

(48:24):
up getting thrown in the brig for a couple of days,
ends up getting court martialed. You know, he loses his career.
But it was his message in that video. It was
like it was lack of accountability.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
I think he does work for d D. Now I believe, yeah,
he got him with job.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
You know, yeah he does. So he worked. So he
works for d D and he also is working in
the section of d o D that is putting together
this process to dry and you know, try and reinstate
people that lost their careers over the COVID shot mandate.

(48:58):
So I like stus Sheeller. I think he's a he's
a sincere guy. I just think that this I just
think this problem is much bigger than than people kind
of want to assume it is. And so I think
that the overall solutions are gonna have to be much
bigger than what people probably assume they're gonna have to be.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's not easy problem, and they
could you know, you hear about reparations and all that stuff.
I mean, what if they've been thought, maybe should they
should pay reparations to all those folks and just be like, look,
don't even bother coup, Like what does you can come
back in? Or we're just gonna give you a check.
I mean, you know, we did your wrong. It was
a non lawful order, you know it. You know you
probably I don't know how they would calculate it, but

(49:39):
I mean that's something they could do too, possibly if
they want to kind of make right the wrong. But
obviously it's gonna cost money.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's gonna cost It's gonna cost money
for them to to fix what they've done. But they're
they have to start from. And this is where I
think duds. Words and actions are are are not congruent
because they're I don't think they've even gone far enough

(50:05):
with with even saying the right thing, but they've said
a lot more than they've done, So there's a lot
of divergence between what they've said and what they've done,
and I don't even think they've said enough, but they
have said things like this was unlawful, this was unfair,
this was overly broad, and it was unjust. I mean,

(50:26):
they've used that type of language in a way to
kind of say, hey, we're going to try to make
this right. And I think those are all good steps forward.
They're not nearly far enough, and people like me look
at this and say, you're not trying hard enough. Try harder.
If you wanted to fix this, you would so fix it.
But even if you take their words and you compare

(50:49):
them with what they're doing so far, there's there's still
a lot to be desired.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Well, we I mean, one of the worst things a
leader could do is be a hypocrite. Right, we all
know are ordinates, whether in Savinian world and military look
up and see how their leaders act and be right.
So that's why we have the Army Values and the
tenants and the NCO creed and all those different things
right to try to to they're all anti hypocrisy there.
It's like, don't you know, don't do the do what

(51:15):
I say? Don't you know do what I tell you?
Don't do what I do kind of stuff. And I
mean I just wonder now as myself, like if I
was still in or I'd worked my way to be
a senior in C or whatever, and I'm getting my
n cor or as an officer, you know, getting my
car and I and they reference the Army values whether
I support them or I would kind of want to
look at like what did you?

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Like?

Speaker 1 (51:35):
I mean, it would it would be hard to still
be in today and seeing how this transpired and then
see how they backed it out and said, oh, it
wasn't lawful. They throw these people out and then have
someone that was part of that kind of critique you
or criticize you and say, well you don't you don't
really live up to the standard, Like I'm not sure
you have tell me that.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, you know, I used to when I was a
brigade executive officer. This this is for a second Brigade
in the tenth Mound Division, and so we would.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Have oh, second brigade, that's catamount, wasn't it two eight seven?
Uh yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Two eight seven was one of the infantry battalions in
uh in second brigade. Yeah yeah, So so you had
uh at that time, you know, you had seven battalions
that were in the brigade. So I was the brigade
executive officer. So one of the things that I would
do is when there was going to be a company
change of command, the two commanders, the incoming and the outgoing,

(52:30):
they would come see anywhere in the brigade. You know,
they would come see me and do an in brief
with me as the brigade executive officer. The out brief
would beat to the brigade commander. So before they're going
to start their inventories, you know, and start going through
kind of their their transition, the two of them come
see me, and then they're going to go through all that.
And then right before they're going to actually do the
change of command, they'll meet the you know, they'll meet

(52:51):
the old man and uh and he'll you know, he'll
talk to them in the out brief. So I would
talk to these these captains and one of the things
that I would tell the incoming company commander is, hey,
being a company commander is different than what you were
doing up to this point. So like whatever your tactical
acumen is, that is very very important, but now you

(53:17):
got to bring something else to the table too. Because
of the company commander. You got all these other things
you gotta worry about too. You're gonna have to put
some time into the administrative piece. You gotta make sure
your evails are straight. You got to make sure that
your awards processing is working. You gotta you know, the
family readiness group, you know, like you now you own
that now as the company commander. So all these other

(53:38):
things that aren't you know, the marksmanship and the collective
skills and the ET scores like all that is great.
You own all that too as the company commander. But
that's like the starting point. You know, your tactical acumen
is now the starting point. If you're gonna be a
successful company commander, you got to bring more to the table. Well,
now I look at this from a much wider view.

(54:00):
I look at all these generals and I say, I
didn't think we needed to have this conversation, but but
we do. If we're going to talk about war fighting,
which we should. Everybody talks about how the most supportive
thing in the military is war fighting. We got to
get back to war fighting because readiness has got to
be the top priority. I agree with all that. I
agree with all that, and we've gotten away from that

(54:21):
for a long time. But when you say that, there
are some assumptions that are built in, and those assumptions
are that we're going to focus on war fighting because
a lot of this other stuff has already been taken
care of. The loyalty to the nation, the operating within
you know, the framework of the law. You know, loyalty

(54:42):
to your oath that you took to the Constitution. But
that stuff's not there. That's just not there. So you know,
we want to focus on war fighting, which should be
our number one priority. But now I got to go
back to all these generals and I got to say,
you don't understand the oath you took the Constitution. You
literally I got to question your fucking loyalty to the nation.

(55:04):
You know, I got a question if you understand how
to operate within the law, all this stuff that should
be an assumption for a general officer. But that's now
where I got to start. When I should be focusing
on war fighting. And that's your fault, General, that's your fault.
That now we got to go and we got to
talk about this stuff. It should be assumptions could be

(55:26):
a given you know, and so that's kind of where
I see it. That's that's where we are. We are
far more broken as an institution than most people want
to admit. Yeah, I get fired up when I talk
about this stuff because we're in a bad way. We're
in a we're in a we're in a really bad way.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
I think I think you need to I mean, I
think you need to take that down to the five
six level, because those guys were the captains and majors
and even maybe yeah maybe you know, it could have
been lieutenants, probably not lieutenants, say, but I mean they
were the mid level management leaders.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Now, yeah, this is what I say about my peers
O five's and O six is, so the generals and
admirals that all freaking you know, lost their minds. But
my peers O fives and O sixes, because a lot
of the guys that were battalion commanders with me. Now
fast forward a couple of years, a lot of them
are pinning on O six right now. But we could
have stopped the mandate if we had enough O fives

(56:17):
and sixes that had the courage to say I'm not
going along with that, they couldn't have fired us all,
but because you know, no one had the courage to
do it. You know how many how many battalion commanders
in the Active Duty Army were relieved for not taking
the shot? I'll tell you two, and I'm one of them,
and I know the other guy.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
So two.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
How many battian commanders are there in the Army, I
don't know, but it's me. It's a couple hundred, So
two out of a couple hundred, so ninety nine plus
percent of battalion commanders in the Active Duty Army just
went along with this unlawful mandate. And it was no
better in the Navy. It was no better in the
Marine Corps or the Air Force. So so O fives
and O six is like you're saying, we collectively could

(56:59):
have stopped the mandate and we failed, just like the
you know, collectively, just like the generals and the admirals did.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
I mean, it could have to take it to something
that people could recognize. I mean, you look at the
scene of Bandon Brothers when all those NCOs walked into
the O five's office, right, they walked in Amen's office
and said they're not following you know that company commander,
and uh, you know they he threw them all out
and all that stuff. I think he fired one of them,
but it got his attention and that company commander got relieved, right,

(57:26):
and Camp winners got put in there because you know,
they they went in there and he recognized that they
were all willing to put their rank in their careers
on the line. They felt that strongly about it.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Yeah, yeah, and that's that's why stories like that are
so powerful.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, yeah, it's uh. So, we got a couple of
questions and comments and the chat one is Buddy Doug
who's on the show. He's a big sponsors show. It
says they need the name of clinic on about after
you on Fort Campbell. Uh.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I don't know if that'll ever happen, but that would
be funny.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Yeah, the Lieutenant Colonel Brad Miller Immunization Clinic of one
hundred and first.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Wouldn't that be wouldn't that be ironic?

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Yeah? You could be like the RFKG junior of the army.
The uh that's what they tribably to do. They you
should you should be they should come find you and
make you a boyingtee for uh for RFKG junior. You
could be on special assignment to d O D that
would be great. So what have you been doing since
you got out? What's it? What's life been like since
JA was a huge risky step to take and be like, well,

(58:28):
not sure what the feature holds now as you say,
took your career, took your page, took your retirement, thrown
it off, and like, I wonder if they're hiring where
they at McDonald's.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So so kind of two things. So,
I mean, I had my full time job that I do,
so I work from here at home. I work remotely,
but I work for a for a company, and that's
kind of my full time job, you know. So I'm
just a normal guy that works for a normal company
trying to trying to help them out.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
And it's a company that just offers different types of
therapy to kids. I'm not there, but I do a
lot of the behind the scenes operations management or some
of the administrative stuff just kind of on the company
side to help the company run. And then on the side,
I just do a lot of this, a lot of
trying to draw awareness to what's happening, I would say

(59:19):
in the wider government as a whole, but certainly with
a specific focus on the military, because that is near
and dear to my heart. So I'm not I'm certainly
not a hater of the military. So I am very
proud to be a veteran. You know, I'm still very
proud to have served. I'm proud to be a West
Point graduate. I am proud to have served nineteen plus

(59:40):
years in the army. But I wish that whether it's
West Point or whether it's the Army, I wish they
would get back to the ethos and the values that
they purport to care about, because they have both, you know,
widely departed from their own charters and from their own,

(01:00:00):
you know, the pillars of the ethos that they should
be perpetuating.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Right right, What would you say someone in you ran
into through family, friend or this or whatever that is
thinking about going in and they were they came in
and said, hey, mister Miller, I knew you were in.
I'm thinking about going in. What should I go into?
What do you recommend that kind of stuff? Would you
be able to would you tell him that's the plath
to take today?

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
No, I wouldn't. Now I'm not going to tell anybody
not to join, but I but I probably would not
give them my recommendation, but and I have had these
conversations with people. So let's say I'm talking to somebody who's,
you know, an eighteen year old, you know coming out
of high school, or or you know somebody, Well, let's
let's talk about the path you're kind of maybe, what

(01:00:46):
are your goals in life? What about the military do
you like? And what do you know about the military,
Because a lot of people, if you're like me, when
I went to West Point, I didn't know a single
person who had ever gone to West Point. In fact,
I had never even visited when I just showed up
there the first day. So there are people who when
they go to the military, some of them they've got

(01:01:09):
an older brother in the military, they have a friend
who joined, their father served. But then there are other
people who the only thing they know about the military
is what they heard from the recruiter and movies that
they've seen. So it's hey, let's talk about what your
goals are, what you're looking to do. What is it
about the military that you find, you know, attractive, Like,
why do you want to go that route? So let's

(01:01:30):
talk about that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
And then.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
If if somebody really wants to go and they've got
their minds set up, then what I would say is, hey,
let's talk about how if that's what you really want
to do, let's talk about how you can do that
and be successful. So, if you're going to go into
the military, then make sure you have made your mind
up from day one about what you will and will

(01:01:55):
not do. And so if you ever get into a
situation where you feel heavily that you are being confronted
with something that is unlawful or deprives you of your rights,
then just if you feel like that is a red
line for you, then just don't cross that red line,
you know. And this is another thing that this is
a conversation I find myself in a lot as well.

(01:02:16):
So when you join the military, you do not surrender
all your rights. You may be told that, you may
have drill sergeants that make you believe that, but it's
not technically true. Now, you do have a limited expression
of some of those rights, that is true, but you
do not surrender all your rights. You do not become
government property. You will probably be told that, you may

(01:02:38):
be even made to feel that, but it's not technically true.
And this is important because there are people out there
who believe that, and there are young service members that
believe that and believe that they don't have any rights
that they can stand on in order to protect themselves
if they're being order to do something that is unlawful.

(01:02:59):
And last point because I'm kind of rambling here, but
like on this note, but this is important. Yes, the
military operates on orders. Yes, you have to follow orders. Yes,
you have to follow orders that you do not like,
still got to follow them. Yes, you have to follow
orders that you may think are unsound. Now, hopefully if
you ever receive an order that you think is unsound,

(01:03:21):
like let's say it doesn't tactically make sense, hopefully there's
an opportunity for you to go to whoever issued that
order and explain to them, Hey, boss, here's why I
kind of disagree with this order. Now, sometimes there's not
gonna be time for that. You're you're given an order
and you're gonna have to follow it. But if there's time,
can you engage in a dialogue with the person who

(01:03:43):
gave that order? Yes, like that does happen in the military,
and there's a dialogue, And if you're told by the
issuing authority, which may be the higher commander. Hey, you
just you gotta do this. Then you know, you reach
what we call the salute point, which is all right.
I expressed my difference of opinion with this, the boss said,
still do it, So I'm gonna I'm gonna do it.

(01:04:05):
But all of that, all of that is assuming that
the order that you received was lawful. When we're talking
about an unlawful order, now we're in a completely different category.
And the military actually does a pretty good job of
teaching even its junior service members that not only are
you not obligated to follow an unlawful order, you actually

(01:04:27):
have a moral obligation to disobey that unlawful order. You know. Now,
we don't want to just disobey orders. But if you
believe you received an unlawful order, then approach your boss
for clarification and say, hey, sir, maybe I didn't quite
understand the order. Maybe maybe I didn't hear you correctly.
Maybe I'm reading this written order wrong. Is there something

(01:04:48):
that I'm missing here? And one of two things might happen.
One you might actually save the boss because in a
moment of stress, like let's think about combat scenarios, here
in a moment of stress, your boss might have actually
giving you an unlawful order, and if you catch him
and you approach for clarification, you might actually get him
to rescind that order. And maybe you just saved his

(01:05:08):
career and you just say, you know, you know, a
situation from going really really bad, or maybe you misunderstood it.
Maybe it wasn't an unlawful order, and when you approach
for clarification and it gets cleared up, you realize there
was a missing you know, a misinterpretation on your part.
Either way, there has now been a positive outcome that
has resulted from you approaching for clarification for that order. However,

(01:05:32):
if you approach and your boss sticks to the unlawful order,
then yeah, I mean you you have no choice but
to but to disobey.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Yeah, it's uh, I mean we call it right, and
we call it a shoot no shoot decision. Right. We'll
put it in a scenario that boss may say calling
that fire mission on that on that whatever, building, house whatever.
If you know there's innocence in there, and you know
you're in a murder innocent people and not combatants, right,
you may say we've seen them, you saw them, I
saw them whatever. What you may not know is maybe

(01:06:04):
they've already been cleared, maybe it's already been read it.
But right, because you're whatever rank you are, and the
old man has already done it, he said, call in
that mission. You know, he said, look, you gotta we
gotta get this, you know suppressed. Right now. You can
stand by your guns. Right, that's a shoot and no
shoot decision. Yea, you may have. You may find out

(01:06:25):
later they were right, you were wrong, and you're gonna
have to deal with what the outcome of that is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
And now there's going to be an investigation and people
are gonna start asking uncomfortable questions. And the way you
deal with that as a you know, if you're a commander,
if you're a first stargeant, if you're a platoon leader,
if you're a platoon sergeant, if you're a Battian commander,
a Batian command sergeant major. The way you deal with
this is when you're doing your tactical training. You incorporate
this type of stuff into your tactical training scenarios. What

(01:06:51):
we what we don't do is go into a classroom
and talk about these situations in a sterile classroom it
doesn't stick. You can do that, but you have to
supplement it with the actual training that is happening on
the ground so that soldiers realize that this isn't just
something we talk about in a classroom. This is something
that we train about on the ground when we're conducting

(01:07:13):
all our other types of training scenarios.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah, the lawful order is the one out the military has,
but it's one that if you're gonna if you're gonna
play that card, you better be right. You better be right.
You know it's and you talk about right, I'll give
you a scenario. A lot of people don't know this, right.
So I was in desert storm and desert storm they
lined us up one day and twosarn humpy that the
medics were there and the anthrax shot back then was

(01:07:38):
not authorized to give to humans, right, it was used
for cows and all that stuff. And there was a
whole bunch of thing people ever with the FDA and
all the stuff. It was not cleared. We weren't given
a choice. I was. I was in the Saudi desert,
a few miles from the Iraqi border. They lined us up,
said you're getting it. They gave it to us we
never It never showed from my medical records for the
rest of my career. There's no of it. Didn't have

(01:08:01):
a choice. We were about to launch across the line
and they're like, we don't know what Saddam's thrown at us.
You're getting this anthract shot. Didn't matter what the dudes
was saying, It didn't matter what litigated back in the States.
You're this is the way it's going to be. You
just deal it right and needless to say, when I
went to Afghanistan and now it was optional, I said, no,
I'm good. I've got the one shot for the rest

(01:08:21):
of my life. Shot mine, so mine's so powerful that
I don't ever need another one. And guys on my
team didn't understand. They were all getting the anthrac shot, Like, no,
I got one, so tell me about it. So, but
I mean, those decisions are made, hopefully they're not for
your detriment, but a thing like a COVID shot, you know,
they they knew they couldn't. Yeah, they could tell you

(01:08:43):
to do it and you could not make us say
you know, okay, we're kicking you out. But you know
they did it back in stateside. They did it where
you had the choice to still get out. You know,
they enforce it on people, but they could have. And
like you said, through coercion and appeer pressure and all
kind of things and threats, they kind of did the
same thing to a lot of people, right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, and the you know, and a lot
of people point back at kind of the anthrax playbook
and they say, hey, this is this is kind of similar.
And because people have gone back to look at what
happened with anthrax too and and have said that, And
in fact, there are some people who have said when
D O D looks at trying to get this right
for what happened with the COVID shot mandate, at the

(01:09:25):
same time, they should try and go back and correct
what happened with a lot of the the anthrax shot
cases as well.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
I mean, I'm not saying it's connected, but I used
to have hair like you man, look at this. I
don't know if it's because of anthract shot, but I
mean the fabio hair there too, flowing, but you know,
well we'll see. But yeah, so hey, well we can
go a little over now. I want to take up
your whole night. But as you as you look back,
you said you have no regrets. Do you see this

(01:09:55):
as you know, you know, they there's you know, songs
about prayers and and and you know that kind of stuff,
and there's people think, hey, we don't know what God
has in sore force and things happened for a reason.
Do you see this, Yeah, you got out of nineteen
years three months, you didn't get your retirement all stuff,
but then it was the best thing. Do you see
that as a good thing of how this happened, because.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Yeah, I do think it was a good thing. I
wouldn't I wouldn't do it differently, in some ways, I
do think it has made my life harder. Like financially,
it's made my life much harder. You know, I was
at the uh kind of at the finish line of
a career. Not so much I wasn't necessary. I kind
of told myself mentally that I was going to do
about twenty five years because I was so close to twenty, right,

(01:10:35):
you know, I wanted to finish the timean command that
put me in about twenty, but I was still looking
to go a couple more years, see if I could
make oh six. So in my head I was kind
of telling myself about twenty five. That wasn't necessarily at
the at like right at the finish line in terms
of that, but in terms of securing a pension and
then knowing that my future is now kind of secured

(01:10:56):
financially and now that's all out the window, right, I mean,
I had to walk away from all of that. So
so financially it's made my life much harder. That's just
something I have to deal with. But on the whole,
I think that's a small price to pay for being
proud of the decision that I made, feeling like I
was on the wrong side, feeling like or feeling like

(01:11:19):
I was on the right side, and then feeling like
the last couple of years have vindicated my position. I mean,
I get heated about this stuff. I get passionate. I
mean I was using some colorful language earlier. I apologize
for that, but I get I get heated about this
because I I I you know, I think what has
happened and where our country is right now, you know,
I think it's it's it's time for serious people to

(01:11:40):
get serious about serious things. That's kind of where we
are as a country.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Yeah, so let me ask you, you did you talk about
vindication We've seen a lot of young people, a lot
of medical issues, especially young people falling over left, right
and center on in practice and training and this and
this stuff. Do you think I mean? And it became
common that the first thing that happened like I wonder
what shot they got? I mean. And we're getting more

(01:12:04):
and more evidence, which normally would come out of medical
trials and research and stuff that when it goes through
the normal process, we're seeing all this. Do you feel
like that's something that's vindicated? You, like, this is why
I didn't feel I knew this wasn't ready. I knew
this wasn't you know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah I do. I do not that's so sad,
it's unfortunate, but yes, I do view it as a vindication. Now,
there are two reasons why I didn't take the shot.
So one is health reasons for myself personally, like you know,
I didn't want to take it, But that's not the
main reason. That's actually the secondary reason. The primary reason
that I didn't take it is because I thought this

(01:12:41):
was part of a much larger scheme and I considered
it to be treason. I felt that way four years ago.
I feel that way much. I just feel like the
the evidence has pointed much more in that direction since then,
So I thought that this was part of a much
larger plot. I still believe it. I have a lot
of questions about the public health emergencies that kind of
set the conditions for something like warp speed to take place,

(01:13:02):
which enabled the rollouts, which then enabled the the distribution
of the shots, which then enabled the mandates. And I
think a lot of what we have seen in terms
of the injuries that have been suffered, I think a
lot of that was intentional. And and that is absolutely
the way that I feel. And I think that as

(01:13:22):
a country, we were attacked, and I wish more people
cared about that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Yeah, yeah, it's I look, you know, you look back now.
You know people were wiping down Amazon packages and spraying
their mail and quarantining in your gara all this stuff
we do, right, just no one knew and everyone just
just you know, we we we saw these trucks of
people in Italy just hauling bodies away and all that stuff,
and just I mean it was they spun a great

(01:13:52):
narrative and uh, but hopefully they're not even just the
people around the world, but in America. Uh, we fail
for that once and hopefully never again. Right, it's people.
You know before it was you know, walk this aisle
down Walmart, right, walk down in this aisle. You got
to walk another way. I mean, all these stupid things.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
And and now we look at it and go, I
can't believe we did all that dumb So I can't.
You know, hey, you want to make me work from
home or give me a paycheck?

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Okay? But it's like, you know, the gym shutting here,
it's a disease. People are sick. It's affecting your lungs
and breathing, and it's like, nope, don't go outside and
don't work out. Don't. It was just like, well, that's right, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Right, that's right. Yeah, don't work out, don't go outside. Yeah,
absolutely wear a mask if you go to the beach.
You know, just all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
I knew it was BS when they said you could
just tie a bandana around your face and that was good.
And I was like, what, like the thing I went
around with as a kid and playing cowboys and that
that's I'm like, I don't feel like that's a medical solution,
but you know, uh, as my buddy said, the one
I told you got the picture with Sorry Jen Ravems.
He goes until they're burning bodies, it's not a pandemic.

(01:15:02):
That was all they said. They're not burning bodies, then
it's not a pandemic. Yeah, but it was a it
was a full you know, catch me once what it
fooled me once, It's on me. Hopefully that's the only
one we're ever going to see. I'm not sure this
country is ever going to go forward again. But but yeah,
it is sad to see how this happened. And you know,
it's even more sad Brad as I look at it

(01:15:22):
and go, you know, prior to this, no one ever
thought nih CDC and that would ever be political. You know,
we we said, yeah, we may not trust the World
Health Organization, but pretty much scientists and doctors we pretty
much regardas say they were government employees or not. We
took them for their work.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Sure, yeah, sure, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
That's never Now the CDC can't do it, and people
are like, well, CDC, you know, it's really skewed the
perception of these what I think, organizations. But then again,
we could talk Deep State has done that to their
intelligence community too. But you know, it skewed this perception
and everyone thought they were above reportach or you know,
above the noise political partisanship. Nothing can be trusted anymore. Yeah.

(01:16:07):
To me, that's a long term effect of bad affections. Yeah, yep.
But anyways, Hey, we've had you on a long time, Brad.
It has been great talking to you. I really appreciate
you giving a lot of the Thursday evening before we
wrap up anything else. We didn't cover any other topics
or anything you want to let our viewers and listeners
know you got going on or anything that means.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
Yeah, well yeah, first of all, you know, thanks, thanks
again for the invite. Really appreciate it. You know, a
great conversation. If people want to know where they can
find me, there's two major places you can find me
pretty easily. So one of those is on Twitter or
x just at my name so at Brad Miller one
zero one zero at Brad Miller one zero one zero,
so I'm fairly active on there. And then also you

(01:16:51):
can find me on my substack. So I do. I
post videos and stuff on my substack. I write a
lot on my substack, and you can find that at
brad Miller one zero dot substack dot com. All right,
that's my Twitter, yeah, and then my substack is Brad
Miller one zero dot substack dot com. People can find

(01:17:11):
me there as well.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
Awesome, awesome, Well I saw your substack earlier. You definitely
have a lot of good stuff up there. Are you
writing a book? Is there a book coming?

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, slowly slowly so so for a couple
of years now, I have been working on a draft
of a book. So I do want to write one.
That is a goal that I have. I have, I
have a lot written. It's still pretty rough, but yeah,
I do hope to get that out at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
Is it going to be focused kind of on the
experience of this whole thing? And just like lessons?

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
It will? It will I kind of, you know, it'll
be a little bit about my my situation, but not
so much because that's ultimately super important. It's just that
in telling my story, I just want to draw attention
to kind of what service members in general suffered. But
then I also want to take kind of a wider
view and look at what's happening in our society. How

(01:18:06):
did this happen, How does this affect every day of Americans.
What do we learn from this what you were just
talking about a minute ago? How do we ensure that
this never happens again? How were so many people kind
of manipulated into believing this in the first place? So
what kind of needs to happen inside the American psyche
to ensure that this never happens again?

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Yeah? Awesome, Well I will you keep us up on that.
We'll do, but would love to when that comes out,
get you back on and promote that. Sure, sure, have
you on any time. I know we talked before. You're
definitely gonna come on and be a guest on our
Leema Charlie show. So for those who watch and keep
an eye on that, we'll be having Brad on there
talk a little bit more about his military career and

(01:18:47):
his deployments. But hey, sir, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
Great great to meet you. Everyone else, thanks for joining
you guys. Amen. Seeing our sponsors scroll along the bottom,
be sure to check them out and again keep an
eye I then we missed the last couple Leama Charlie's.
I was traveling seeing the grand kids last week. So uh,
we'll get some of those back up and be sure
to tune in here every Thursday night. So with that
being said, Brad have a great night and everyone thank

(01:19:11):
you for tuning in all.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
Right, sir, thank you. Have a good one.

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