Executive Producer Patrick Harbinson talks about the Britbox hit The Tower

Our guest is Patrick Harbinson who serves as an executive producer of The Tower now playing on Britbox. Harbinson also worked with author Kate London to adapt her novel into this three-part drama.


Harbinson is one of the top crime writers in the business having been a producer on such hit series as Homeland, 24 and Law and Order SVU.




The Tower is grounded in the terrifying realities of life on the beat, this limited run mystery revolves around a shocking event at a tower in London’s East End where a veteran cop and teenage girl have fallen to their deaths and a rookie cop is now missing. Charged with figuring out what happened is DSI Sarah Collins (Gemma Whelan, Game of Thrones, Killing Eve) whose investigation takes her into the dark heart of policing in a complex and diverse city.



Based on the novel by Kate London, a former detective who spent eight years in the Metropolitan Police's homicide squad, the series co-stars Jimmy Akingbola, (Arrow, upcoming Bel-Air) Emmett J Scanlan (Peaky Blinders, Gangs of London) and Tahirah Sharif (Casualty, The Haunting of Bly Manor). Patrick Harbinson (Homeland, 24) serves as an executive producer in addition to adapting London's novel into this three-part drama.

NOW PLAYING ON BRITBOX

https://www.britbox.com/us/


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Episode Transcript

(00:28):
Hey, everyone to welcome to thisedition to stream on. I'm Jim Williams,
your host, and here we arein the dog days of summer in
August. And I don't know aboutyou, but when I go to relax,
maybe it's the beach, maybe it'sthe mountains. It's always fun to
sit back and have an opportunity tobinge some programming that I have either wanted
to see or just somebody had givenme an idea and said, hey,

(00:52):
you know, have you seen thisshow and maybe it's a good chance to
catch up on it. Well,such is the case of The Tower.
Okay. Now, The Tower isa fantastically done miniseries which you can see
now on brick Box. It's basedon Kate London's Metropolitan Trilogy and it stars,
you know, two outstanding outstanding actors, one of course, we know

(01:17):
as Jemma Waylon and the other isJimmy Acombola. Now, they who,
both of whom we spoken to before, are fantastic. Gemma, of course,
you know, from the Game ofThrones and Killing You of course,
Jimmy Akombola from Arrow bel Air anda number of other outstanding programs. It's

(01:41):
grounded in the terrifying realities of lifeon the beat as a cop. Now,
this limited run mystery revolves around theshocking events as a tower in London's
East Side, where a veteran copand a teenage girl have fallen to their
deaths and a rookie cop is nowmissing. Charged with figure out what happened
is DSi Sarah Collins, played byof course Jimma and it's her job to

(02:07):
find out what happened in the darkheart of policing in a complex and very
diverse city. So our guest isa brilliant, brilliant guy in his own
right. He of course is PatrickHarbison now Patrick if you don't know the
name, has a very cool resume. He was the former executive producer of

(02:30):
Homeland, producer on twenty four Lawand Order SPU just to name a few.
So his bonafittis when it comes tobeing involved in a cop show,
is pretty close to unmatched. SoPatrick is our guest today, and Patrick,
the thing that strikes me most aboutthe Tower is your ability as an

(02:52):
executive producer and a writer. Adaptingthis to a screenplay is it's gritty and
in the first three minutes or fourminutes of the show. You are hooked
instantly. It's got everything that youwant in a mystery, and it gets
you right from the get girl.Let's talk about how you were able to
weave this wonderful story into such agritty but very very entertaining program. Again,

(03:21):
good, I'm glad you. I'mglad you've felt that, and I
grew well to two things to sayto that one. Ate London is a
good storyteller. And what I lovedabout the novel was that I never felt

(03:43):
in this one that there was atwist that I felt You've done that for
the story, You've you've invented thateverything felt to me very organic to the
set of circumstances that you started uswith, you know, in those opening
three minutes. So that for mewas a delight to read because I thought,

(04:05):
Okay, I thought I've got areally good piece of material here,
and then if I needed to changeanything, that was going to be my
benchmark. It's like every every twistit has to be earned, and I
did you know, there are thingsI added because I felt we needed some
narrative books occasionally that weren't in thenovel, But that was my standard basically

(04:30):
what Kate had done. And Iwould say, it's it's always been something
that's you know, I've done quitea lot of cop shows, Law and
Order, and I've done thrillers andso on. Nothing really matters to me
those twists and turns that they comeout of character. So again, that's
why I love the novels, andit's it's why I was determined to be

(04:54):
true to that's level of psychological realism, so that you were never you never
so oh, I'm watching a TVversion of a cop show. Once we'd
suck you in, I want to. I wanted us to be able to
hold the audience and have them believeand everything our characters were doing. You
know, you've got a couple ofpeople who are You're my favorite, not

(05:15):
just actors, but people in JemmaWheeling and Jimmy Acambola. Um great,
not bad, not a bad castthat you're dealing with. You're my friend.
Yes, we were lucky, Um, we were lucky. I mean
Jemma, it was you know,it was actually one of the actors that

(05:35):
was on Kate's very very short listof favorites to play Sarah um So when
she read it and liked it.That was a good day for us.
UM and she was a delight towork with. UM. And I actually,
I genuinely mean that, I've workedwith some wonderful people and Jemma's right
up there. UM. And thenJimmy UM, Who's It's funny. I

(05:59):
knew his work, I didn't knowit that well UM, and what we'd
done in his case, we've doneopen casting, so it was like,
um, let's just get the bestactor. UM. So Jimmy was one
of the one of the actors whoread for it and kind of just just
took the part. Basically, hewas just everything we needed and more.

(06:20):
He just I mean, you know, you know what he's like. He
has this has this warmth, effortlesswarmth on screen. UM can be can
be tough if he needs to be. UM. He's just a really really
interesting UM actor who makes really complicatedthings look really really almost invisible. You

(06:41):
know. He's a real craftsman.So and again it was a pretty one
of those happy shoots where everyone goton even they were shooting, you know,
in Liverpool in the middle of COVID, so it's not it's not a
great place to be UM, butit was good and those two, those
two were key to it. Actuallythey both would you know, they led
this show in a really good way. But no, we got lucky there
both sides. People and those actors. You were just talking about shooting during

(07:06):
COVID. Um, if you giveus a little insight, that'd be fascinating
to find out how difficult it wasto shoot. I mean, these are
difficult shows to shoot under normal circumstances. But how did the situation with COVID
affect how you did this? Um, it's the atomization of the crew and

(07:32):
the process. So if you're allworking in your little bubbles. I mean,
I'm one of the lucky ones wearingthe right colored lanyards, so I
can talk to anyone as long asI'm wearing the right sort of mask.
So um, but I am talkingto everyone wearing a mask, and the
actors are talking to each other wearingmasks until you know, until the moment

(07:54):
you're about to shoot, when downthe masks come and it's you might think,
you know, obviously hospital staff atyou're doct and so on, they're
wearing masks. They don't complain aboutit. Um, it's but it's funny
what it does to a film set, it actually makes communication much harder.
Um. And you realize as you'rewatching, oh, things aren't getting through.

(08:16):
You actually have to be so muchclearer about what you want and what
you need. Um. The simplelittle fact that hearing is more difficult.
So that and the fact that whatbeing tested every day is is you know,
you get used to that pretty quicklyboring as it is. M it's
the as I said, the factthat you can't gather around the monitors.

(08:37):
It's hard to have a discussion becauseyou're having to keep your social distance,
you know. And in pre production, the fact that you're doing scouts together
you're not in the van, orif you're in the van, you're armored
in perspects everywhere. Um. Soall those things where script issues are talked
about with between me and Jim Loach, the brilliant director, that they're they're

(08:58):
really hard to do. And againit sounds like, yeah, it's not
that hard to do. We're not, you know, doing open heart surgery.
But just what was the natural partof filmmaking and was a fun part
of filmmaking, or working out howto make things a make them and then
they make them better, which isjust done by talk talk talk, all

(09:20):
those things become a lot harder.Shooting becomes a lot harder. Um.
That was the strain it puts under, which you didn't notice because you get
used to anything pretty quickly. Soafter the first week we were used to
it. But when I was lookingat the first cuts, I was thinking,
oh, well, we missed that, we missed that, we missed
that. And so that's where Iwent back and we did a whole week's
pickups in London simply to get someof the things we've missed or thankly,

(09:43):
you know, mistakes I've made themwriting, We fix those. So it's
just harder. And the last thingI'm shooting was you know, I hadn't
shot since I'd been on a setsince late twenty nineteen in the Homeland,
and just a difference there between youknow, shooting and son in la with
a crew that really knows each otherand a cast that really knows each other,
where the atmospe is really great andthe director you know, and that,

(10:07):
and then in freezing cold in Liverpool, honestly with everyone wearing masks.
Yeah, it's very different, verydifferent. Um. Anyway, it was,
it just made it made the subtlethings harder. It made the subtle
things of performance harder, no givingharder and so and in the end that's
why I'm really proud of what wedid, because even though it's a relatively

(10:28):
simple show, it's just a copshow. Um, it's important to get
those performances right, and it's it'sharder when everyone's wearing masks. It's funny.
Liverpool in many ways becomes another characterin this. Yeah, it's some.
It was interesting. I've been toschool in the north and near Liverpool,

(10:50):
but i'd really been in the city, so I didn't know the city
well, and it was it wasa bit hard to find the right locations.
Again COVID. You know, youwant to be in a tablet,
but the residents don't want you anywherenear and ever goes of COVID. So
again that's putting more strain on you. It was, but in the end
it had an odd quality to it. Jim Jim Loach was determined, sometimes

(11:16):
almost statifically, so that we didn'tlook like a police like every police show.
And actually Little Pool helped with thatbecause you know, we're supposed to
be set in London and it doeslook like London. But if you really
know London. There's just a littleedge that's not quite London, which I
actually think helped the feeling that you'rewatching something different. As we wrap things

(11:39):
up here, what do you hopethat people get away from this? I
mean, because it's a fascinating youknow, three partner and as I said
before, it's it's it really getsyou from the goal, you know,
you know some of those things.It builds to get your attention, It
grabs your attention. So what isit that you hope the viewers get from

(12:03):
it? Um Well, obviously Ihope they are grabbed from the get go
and that they stay with it becauseI think it's a ride worth taking.
And what I was really interested inwhen I think Cases Too, was just
making people question assumptions. I mean, you know, you've you've seen it.

(12:24):
You know what the issues that theheart of it and so on?
What does language mean? Different peoplehere, different things? What's a joke?
What isn't a joke? What areour assumptions? What I loved about
the novel and what I was ableto bring out the adaptation is that every
character has a point of view,and if you take your time and listen
to everyone you will actually you willactually end up in a much healthier place.

(12:48):
So without wanting to send any sortof pompous messages that just making people
pause before coming to a conclusion,I'd love that sort of contributed to that
sort of um, that sort ofthing, Patrick Um. Lastly, you
know, we might be in theGolden Age in many ways of television insomuch

(13:11):
as now we have brick Box,and we have the ability here in the
United States and I'm sure you guysaround the world as well. We get
to sample and get to see thingsthat we may never have gotten to see
or may have taken two or threeyears to get here. But now through
streaming and the world has become amuch smaller place, and we're getting to

(13:37):
see outstanding content from all over theglobe because of streaming services like brick Box
and others who you know, basicallyshowcase these things and give us, you
know, an opportunity as viewers tosee some really outstanding, you know,
work that doesn't come from Los Angelesor Vancouver or New York. Yes,

(14:03):
we have. I mean, I'mI'm a little skeptical about the Golden Age
of TV. I mean, Iyou know, my I was working in
LA in the age of Musty TV, when NBC was just dominating the networks
with R and Homicide, Laura Lorderand so on. So UM, I
think TV is six local in termsof its golden age. At the moment,

(14:28):
um, I think TV is goingthrough an identity crisis in terms of
will the big American series, Umis there a place for them? You
know, will we see again theSopranos or an r just to take a
genre show UM, or a homeland, Um, we will see a Game

(14:50):
of Thrones again because they're trying tomake one already. UM. But there's
an identity crisis. What is howlong is the series meant to be?
Now? Will just be miniseries?It's It's very interesting that and I think
the streamers have sort of confused themarket like that naturally, as people are
trying to work out what they wantto watch, and as you say,

(15:11):
the access to international television is nowsort of almost instant. I mean,
I was amazed that BritBox, we'reputting this out so quickly. As you
say, about five, six,ten years ago, this probably would have
sold to PBS if we've been luckyand you would have seen it. You
know a year later, so thatinstantane year streaming is really interesting. But

(15:33):
again I say, this is whereI'm skeptical about is everything really so different?
Because how long ago is borgan on? You know, when we were
all watching that and saying this isbrilliant. So we have been aware that
there are a brilliant series made inother countries, not just in the States,
and not just picking up you know, British crime dramas. So I

(15:56):
think we should hesitate again. Thisis a lesson of the town question your
assumptions is it? Is it sodifferent where it's different? I think,
as they said, is what isthe ideal length of a drama series of
comedy series? Now? Is there? Is there a new ideal? Is
there a new template that everyone willbe making things too? I'm not sure
there will be. I mean,for me, with the three hours,

(16:18):
I would have done written more happily. But I knew the novel just was
right for three hours. If wemake if we make more, I will
make you know, I'll do fouror five hours, but never more than
that, because you know, Iwant the narratives to be compressed, you
know, I want them to beonce you're watching, I don't want to
let go of you. Um soit's interesting, I who, if you
like, grew up as a writerin la working on Lauren Order, where

(16:41):
I did one hundred and sixteen episodes, and am now looking at a drama
series where if I do five,I'll be thinking is that too many?
You know that indicates that the worldis changing a bit? Certainly? Well,
I think you know your points avery good point because I've been as
business enough as a producer, directorand writer for almost forty four years,

(17:04):
and and we're seeing even before thestreaming situation, we're seeing where you're getting
twelve fourteen, maybe eighteen episodes isa year when back in the day twenty
two to twenty four was pretty muchrout and now we're seeing that cut back

(17:26):
to maybe twelve, right, Soyeah, I mean that part of it
is. I think the thing forme that's exciting is I'm now getting to
see shows from the UK, fromAustralia, from Sweden, from US,
you know, from New Zealand,from pretty much anywhere that I didn't get

(17:47):
to see before. And there's overfive hundred and thirty six different scripted dramas
that are going to produce this year, So it's not like there's a you
know, a shortage of content forsure. Yeah, that's I mean,
that's a scary fact because when you'remaking drama, you're realizing even though you

(18:08):
can access UM, you now havethrough through the streamers UM and through the
streamers competitors because you know, Showtime, hboor whatever, they're still they're still
in them in the game, sothey know they're competing. So they're looking
now aboard. You know, youhave the access. The issue is can
you get the audience because if,as you say, that's a scary number

(18:32):
five hundred and thirty six dramas,I mean, no one in the world
obviously it's going to watch all thosehow do you how do you know about
them? And how do you seethem? And then, um, interestingly,
because I think the great American showsand this is why I wanted to
come to America. Um, youknow all those years ago. The great
American shows are like big novels.You know, you're you're watching West Wing

(18:53):
for five or six years, you'rewatching you Off for you know eight whatever
it was, ten or years whenthey when they're good deter Exiles, well,
you know, you know the onesI'm talking about or the Great Breaking
Bad things like that, So you'reunlikely to get those novels those great series.
If series are basically lasting, areonly getting two or three autems because

(19:17):
there's so much on you really willhave to be special to cut through and
the so that audiences stick with youand the streamers or whoever is funding it
prepared to put the last amounts ofmoney into make them a second and the
third series. And on the creativeside, your writers, directors, actors,
if you like, are not goingto have the time to really get

(19:38):
to know themselves the stories they're tellingand begin to tell them better. The
thing about the Great Series was theygot better, you know, they were
all like bell curves and so thatI wonder if that's going to those series
are going to disappear. I don'tknow. That's what's really interesting. And
I think if they do disappear,it will be because there are five hundred

(20:00):
and thirty six, Um, youknow, scripted dramas being made and such
a time. You know it's basicallynot too much, But how on earth
you do you choose which of thosefive hundred day six is going to get
a second season? It I'm sure, it's it's a it's a tough situation.
And as a programmer, you know, you back and look at and

(20:22):
go, well, you know,is more better or is just more and
more? And yeah, that's kindof how it how it shakes out and
hopefully, and I think this iskind of Patrick and you're you know,
you know yourself from being in lathat usually the cream does rise to the

(20:44):
top and the shows that aren't particularlyum well done, you know, fall
by the wayside. But well,that's that's very true. I mean,
it's a good and that's a goodway of looking at it. I think,
you know, what has happened isthat it would be like the to
maxime metaphist, the ocean is sowide, but it's very it's a bit

(21:07):
difficult to support the cream rising tothe top. I think it will.
I think that's right, and Ithink there will be a settling down.
I think And if we were havingthis conversation five years from now, we'll
be we'll be talking about a differentlandscape. Um. But at the moment,
yeah, that's the moment. It'sreally interesting. Well, and you
know the other part two is youdon't need five to eight to ten million

(21:30):
people viewing the show to make itsuccessful. You know, you can get
away with three or four million peoplewatching, would be successful because you know
people are now paying for it asbefore it was coming to them via free
television. Correct, Yeah, verytrue. So anyway, Patrick, thank

(21:52):
you so much for joining us todayand I wish you all the best and
uh promise you'll come back when you'vegot a new show. I'd love you.
Thanks very much to our guest,Patrick Harbison, the executive producer of
the Tower. As we said before, you must bene it's a fantastic edge
your seat thriller The Tower, nowplaying on BritBox. We'll be back with

(22:15):
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(22:36):
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(23:48):
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(24:10):
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