On this special series with Dr. Bill Sappenfield, we talk about the book of Acts, how the first churches were established, and address the relevance of the question- why are you looking up to heaven?
This is the opening story of Acts when Jesus told his apostles that they would go to the ends of earth.
Luke describes two men standing there in white robes, addressing the apostiles. Didn't Jesus just aske you to be witnesses to go to the ends of the earth?
Dr. Sappenfield talks about the theology of "the spot." Where I used to be....or I'm going to start doing something in the future or there is always something you can do more. If you are going to make a difference in life, this is where you are going to start from. YOU can be a witness to God in this world, in your spot, today.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.
This is the opening story of Acts when Jesus told his apostles that they would go to the ends of earth.
Luke describes two men standing there in white robes, addressing the apostiles. Didn't Jesus just aske you to be witnesses to go to the ends of the earth?
Dr. Sappenfield talks about the theology of "the spot." Where I used to be....or I'm going to start doing something in the future or there is always something you can do more. If you are going to make a difference in life, this is where you are going to start from. YOU can be a witness to God in this world, in your spot, today.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey, welcome back to success to significance. I'm Rick Tokeeny.
This is the doctor Bill Sapenfield series that's been asking
these critical questions during the lent season. Doctor Sapenfield and
I have known each other since let's see nineteen sixty
seven or sixty eight, which is forever, Doctor Bill.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Thank you very much, Rick, good see you this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Great to see you too. Thank you so much for
doing this series. I don't think I thank you enough.
I don't know, folks, how this series has affected you,
but it's driven me back into the Bible to read
different versions of the Bible, to read these key questions
that doctor Sapenfields is brought up for our attention during
(01:01):
this really special season. And I want Bill, I'd love
for you just to start today by talking about what
in the world is going on in Acts? Who wrote
the Book of Acts? And then we'll dive into the
key question of the day.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
And it is very important to us and unique among
books of the Bible, all four Gospels that we have Matthew, Mark, Luke,
and John record the words and acts and teachings of Jesus.
And then we have the letters written many of them
(01:47):
by Paul, which are how the Christian message spread around
the Mediterranean and a lot of people, Paul chief among them,
traveling around the Mediterranean area and formed communities and then
(02:09):
wrote letters to them. But Acts is the story of
how Paul did that. It's not so much the letters
that he wrote back to those communities, but starting with
this story that we're going to talk about this morning,
the very first thing that happens in Acts is Jesus
(02:30):
ascends into Heaven and the apostles are right there at
that place in Jerusalem, and then they go off of
the very next chapter, chapter two of Acts, we have
the blessing of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, which is
(02:53):
often called the birthday of the Church. This is when
we start having the the church is blessed by the
Holy Spirit. And now we go moving along and we're
introduced to Saul of Tarsus, whose name later changed to Paul,
(03:17):
and or we may have already been called Paul at
that point, but anyway, we start here, we start calling
him Paul, and all of his travels and the missionary
journeys he had around the Mediterranean, those are all recorded
in Acts and end up with Paul in Rome and
(03:41):
and so how the church grew is the Book of Acts.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And when you look, when you read through it, folks,
you can see that there are different churches that are
forming today. And maybe they don't necessarily have red bricks
and a steeple, but there are groups of communities. And
I was reading, I was reading through, and at least
(04:08):
in this particular Bible, it says that in those days
Peter stood up among the believers a group numbering about
one hundred and twenty and I thought, boy, the average
congregation in the United States is probably between sixty five
and eighty five people today, and he's got one hundred
(04:29):
and twenty believers at that stage. And he's talking about
the Holy Spirit coming and it being the guide. And
then we but you kind of you go back into
Acts one ten, and that's where this big question is asked.
So why don't take us from that point forward? Doctor Schappenfield.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Okay, Luke wrote his gospel, which we know as Luke
the Gospel according to Luke. But then he did a
follow up and what did Jesus' followers do after the
ministry of Jesus? And it's called the Acts of the apostles,
(05:15):
and this is the opening story. Jesus gives the apostles
last instructions, tells them that they will go into all
you will be my witnesses to the ends of the earth.
And incidentally, that word we have in English martyr, that
(05:36):
comes from the word for witness, and so you will
be my witnesses to the end of the earth. And
he goes up into heaven and the apostles are standing there,
and they've had this big crashing event, and we might think,
as we so often do, great, it's all done, end
(05:59):
of story. That's that. But they look down and here
are these two men standing here, which is exactly the
way Luke described the people at the empty tomb on
Easter morning. And these two men are standing there in
white robes, and they look at the apostles and say,
(06:23):
why do you stand looking up toward heaven? Which is
a wonderful question and ought to be asked of the
people of God more often. Why are you just standing
there staring up into heaven. Don't you have something to do?
Didn't Jesus just say something about you being my witnesses
to the end of the earth. And so let's let's
(06:48):
get this ball rolling, and that's what happens and why
I think that's a if you're going to make a
list of significant questions for or from the Bible, this
is a real good question to start with.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That's right, And so now I want you to comment
on this.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
How does this particular passage encourage today's believers to shift
from just passively waiting to some active participation in God's work?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
The history of it. Okay, look what happened here? We
have this, as you say, a small group of people
standing around staring up into heaven and Jesus says, you
will be my witnesses to the ends of the earth.
What we want to take a very narrow reading of that. No,
(07:49):
they didn't. They didn't go to the ends of the earth.
There are lots of places that they didn't get to.
Where every listener is sitting right now is one of
those places they did get to. They started right there,
but their message reached the ends of the earth. In
(08:14):
the thinking of existentialism, you might call it the theology
of the spot. You're at a spot right now, and
when you think about your relationship with God or anything
important that you ever did, you might wish you were
at a different spot gee where I used to be,
(08:38):
people were much nicer to me. Or I seem to
be making much more difference in people's lives used to
Or I'm going to start at some point in the
future doing something I'm going to as soon as I
have enough money, as soon as the kids are grown.
(08:58):
There's always something you can do at some other spot
than the one you are at. Well, that group was
standing right there and Jesus left said, Okay, you're going
to be my witnesses to the ends of the earth.
So we're going to start right here wherever you are.
(09:20):
That's where you are, And if you are going to
make a difference in life, then this is where you're
going to start from. And so this spot is you know,
don't wait for a different time in your life, different abilities,
things that you don't know. You may not start from
(09:45):
some spot in Jerusalem. You may start from wherever you
happen to be right now, some point where you're in
your schooling. I don't care. You may be old and
sick and going to die tomorrow, but this is the
spot you're at and you can be a witness to
(10:07):
the love of God in this world.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Oh my gosh, that's a that's our call to action,
our CTA off of this, and that that ties into
when do you start engaging with the world as Christ commanded?
And you're saying it could basically take place at any
age and stage. What what have you done in the past,
(10:35):
doctor Sippenfield to help people get their motor running other
than doing seven or eight podcast in a row with.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well, this is a big, a big thing. I've never
done this before, and I certainly appreciate the opportunity. But
we can all do that by just asking ourselves questions
what needs to happen in my life before I can
start living this way? And you can always find the answer. Well,
(11:06):
you know, it's kind of silly. We can always come
up with reasons that we can't do it yet. I
don't have enough money yet, I have too many other
responsibilities right now. I can't improve my health because I'm overweight,
you know, things like that. I said, Well, that's what
(11:27):
it means to get started right now. Stop thinking about
when you can, don't judge your don't make your probability
of success, the statement of the determining factor and whether
(11:48):
or not you are going to do anything that you
think and needs to be done. Okay, I probably won't
be successful. We could make the case that any one
of those disciples who's named in the first of the
Book of Acts, none of them were successes. Uh you
(12:08):
know they they never wound up rich that I know of.
And yet look what they were able to accomplish and
are still accomplishing.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
This this story goes on to name the people who
were gathered in that group, and that's that's a very
fine group. And we name universities after these men. There's
you know, Saint Andrew and Saint Peter and others. But
(12:43):
your name is on that group, somebody who heard this
message and wanted to spread that message to other people.
And you don't get a name book in the Bible
named after you. But as long as you participate in
this very important task that Jesus gave as followers of
(13:11):
going into all the world teaching them, telling people what's
really important, what sharing what values you should have, you're
part of that group that was gathered then and continues
to grow. And as you say, we say church, when
we start thinking about big buildings and towering steeples, well goodness,
(13:34):
I think that archaeologically they've determined that the first actual
building they have found to be a church exclusively for
a church building was about three hundred years after Jesus
Jesus' resurrection. You don't have to have a building, you don't,
(13:57):
you know, any time you can spread had a message
of having values, of courage to do things that will
share your values with the world. You're participating and you
are doing one of the acts of the Apostles.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
He's just reminded me of when we took our daughters
to Cuba on a mission trip, and it was during
the Obama administration where they were allowing people to go
to Cuba, and we were.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
With this.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Church that was starting up that was meeting almost in
an area where they could meet in secret because they
were being accused by the country and the politicians of
being against them.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
And they took us over to this.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Part of town and they said this is our church,
and there was no roof, and we're all looking up
and I'm wondering, is a roof required for a church?
And it really it kind of stopped us in our tracks.
(15:25):
And you want to contribute for the roof of their church,
but you wonder, boy, are we missing the big picture here.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Why do you stand staring up into heaven? There's no
roof and I can.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Hey, we always, at least I was always taught that
when you go to a church service that there's a
part of them worship where you're preparing your heart. And
are those that are listening out there that are wondering
what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
What can I do?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Can we say prepare your heart? Prepare your heart. It's
a heart condition and it's not about this isn't a
call to action to go hop in your car.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
And go to church on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And it's just a call to action to be kind
and to think of other people and to if you see,
if you see somebody in need, to respond to that
need and.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Listen to your heart.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Beautiful, that's right the word that you used there. Listen,
Listen to your heart, be open, listen to God no
matter how God's speaking to you from somebody else.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
There.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Are you listening to friends? Are you listening to people
you disagree with? Are you listening to a child? You know?
Trying to give guidance to someone about what you think
is right, and then when they think that they have
something else that's right? Are you honestly listening to a
(17:21):
different point of view? The kind of conversation I would
really like for people to be in is one of listening.
That's why I get nervous and a bit skeptical when
I hear people who are spreading the word through their confidence.
(17:45):
And what I mean by that is, this is what
you need to do, and I can give you all
of the answers. I would be a lot more comfortable
with asking questions, listening learning, being pretty sure I'm not
going to have all of these answers until it's time
(18:06):
for me to die. It's uh. I'm much more comfortable
with people who are asking questions and listening for answers
than I am for all of the shouted certainties that
(18:26):
the church seems to be known for.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, thank you for saying that shouted certainties, which is
a nice bridge into how do you see today's passage
speaking to the modern church, especially in a time when
so called Christians feel uncertain about the future. Is that
(18:51):
kind of tied into what you said before. There's certain
individuals that think that they need to shout certainties in
a world that's so uncertain.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
And it's that's not the way to overcome when when
we're uncertain, that's not a reason for despair. That's the
time to uh. You know, you can be certain that
you are here for a reason that you're uh. You
(19:25):
can participate in the love of God. Uh. And I
I can participate in the love of God by valuing
other people, listening to them, hoping that I can learn
from them all and so show my love for God,
not by what I disapprove of, but for patients, encouraging
(19:50):
people I don't understand. Uh. I don't like the word
toleration very much. Toleration means I'm putting with something that's bad,
which is a very good thing to do, I suppose,
but it also implies that it's bad. What if I
(20:11):
can use instead the word appreciation. So you have different
ideas about what's valuable, You have different ideas about how
you want to live in this community. What can I
learn from that? How can I make you and me
(20:32):
more comfortable with each other? And so we can listen
to someone who may not even have very much to say,
but just the fact that we're with them, we're making
them feel important or by letting them know that I
(20:53):
realize that you're a child of God and you've got
something to say. And I know this is not the
first time I've heard you tell me this story, but
I'm going to listen to it again. And that's that
bills our appreciation for each other as a child of God.
(21:18):
Absolutely like these like these apostles told us, you don't
have to go very far to be a witness to
the ends of the earth. Jesus said, be my witness
to the ends of the earth. Okay, right here where
I am, I can be a witness to the ends
of the earth.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
That means ten yards to your left or to your
right of your front yard, your neighbors, fifteen yards across
the street. Get on, mopack, start treating me right. You
know it's it's it's right in front of you people. Okay,
(22:03):
We're gonna take a break and do our weekly Bible trivia.
And this child of God last week was asking doctor
Sappenfield about what was put on the cross, and I
think you said, I nuri.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And what is that?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
The Bible trivia for the week is about Christian symbols
and what that means.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
So take it away, Okay, you almost never see this
just on the top of a cross. It will be
on the top of a crucifix. And the difference is
that the body of Jesus is on the cross that
makes a crucifix, and so you'll see I R I
(22:45):
on the top of that. And that's because crosses are
usually too small to write out the full message of
all four of the gospels tell us that there was
a sign at the top of the cross that says
Jesus of Nazareth, king of the Jews. And John, in
(23:08):
addition to that statement, like the other three gospels have,
John takes us off to a little more detail and
says this says John the Baptist, I'm sorry, Jesus of Nazareth,
king of the Jews. And it's written in three different languages.
It's written in Roman, in Latin, which was the language
(23:29):
of the Roman Empire, so it's written in Latin. It's
written in Greek because that was the common language for
the Mediterranean area, and it was written in Hebrew. So
it's written all three there. And if you actually there
are some paintings that are really big and have it
(23:50):
written in all three languages. Rembrandt has a wonderful painting,
which is pretty much life size, and the eye and
up on the top has that written out in Latin
and in Greek and in Hebrew. However, it's usually pretty
tough to write that in three languages at the top
(24:13):
of a little cross that you're going to hang in
a hospital room. So the initials in Latin are in
are I Jesis Nazareth, Rexus Eudaeus, and so that's just
the initial of Jesus of Nazareth, king of the Jews.
(24:36):
Most of our symbols in church, and we've got more
than you know, just because you see them all the time,
and it gets to the point where you ignore them,
but ask people from time to time what does that mean?
And then you can both go find out together, because
the person you're asking doesn't know either. And most of
(24:56):
them are from Greek, because remember, of the two thousand
years that we've had Holy Scripture are the New Testament. Anyway,
we didn't have a printing press. We didn't get a
printing press until about five hundred years ago, and so
you had to write it out by hand, and so
(25:17):
abbreviations were a really good idea. And so since you're
writing it in Greek. We'll see that thing that looks
like an XP superimposed one on another, and that's Greek.
That's not XP. That is a chi row a and
(25:40):
R sound and those are just the first two letters
of the name Christ. Who here has noticed ihs on
the front of altars or in the middle of a cross,
we'll see ihs and again that's not ihs, that's just Greek.
The yoda ata sigma the first three letters of Jesus's name,
(26:05):
and there the alpha and omega is very popular from
the Greek alphabet. I am the beginning in the end.
And we have lots of symbols from the Greek just
because they are they're trying to save some paper. They
(26:28):
really are. You know, you get the original manuscripts that
you dig up in some archaeological site, there's not spacing
between the words they have run on things. It can
be very difficult. We've made our life very easy for ourselves.
(26:50):
When we want to study the Bible. You can get
a whole printed Bible for about the price of a
happy meal. And when you think of what they were
going through in the first couple of hundred years of Christianity,
of having to travel and copy it down and make
ink and we've got it pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Guys, We sure do, we sure did. Thank you for that,
Doctor Sappenfield. Okay, we're going to wrap up this show
and I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Ask doctor Sappenfield if he will consider coming on once
a month so we can continue this series.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I have been fed.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
By what you've been teaching and I want you to
ponder it, pray about it, and it'll be strictly on
your schedule, not Ricky's schedule.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Tuesday's at eight thirty.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So I want you to think about coming on once
a month to continue our conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Will you ponder that?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Sure, I'd love to. It's very kind of you to
suggest it. I would be interested in your input and
in the input of any listeners that we have of
what subjects they would like to address.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, sir, that's that's a great idea. That's doctor Sappenfield
putting the audience first versus the writers of this particular
show or God's words.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So that's great. Well, thank you for considering that.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I need for you to personally minister to me as
we wrap up this show. Twenty years ago this week,
my dad died on Good Friday, March twenty seventh, and.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's it's a I look back on it now, Bill
and I and I.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Even listened to some of the tapes in a podcast
that we did with my dad, and I go, uh, well,
it was a great guy. He had all these wonderful
things that he wanted to accomplish in his life. Seldom
did he finish anything, though, And I'm reminded about showing
(29:09):
the comment that I picked up in the last week,
show me your results, not your intentions, and sort of time.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
I'm sorry to say that again, show me your results.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Show me your results, not your intentions. And it sort
of ties into what we've been talking about today. You know, what,
what can we do to kind of kickstart kindness and
love and grace to others? And I just I want
your perspective on you know, here we are twenty years
later and we're approaching seventy and we loved our parents.
(29:44):
Wondering if I guess my big question is if he's
watching today from heaven, what are his expectations of what
we're supposed to be doing as the next generation to
carry forth the best virtues of my dad, which are
probably imagination and creativity, and design and all of that.
(30:08):
So I'm I'm kind of I'm going through my twenty
year grieving process of missing daddy. And I don't know
if you've ever felt that way about your dad or not,
and I don't, but I can you address those murky
statements I just made and trying to make sense of it?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I think those are universal for all people and loved
ones whom we miss and wondering about our own lives.
Because when we say to ourselves, Okay, what are your
results rather than your intentions? And where I like to
start with that, and I hope I will grow beyond
(30:50):
that at some point. Is what gives you the hubris
to say that you know your results. Your dad, as
he was dying, say, oh gosh, what did I accomplish?
Did he know that he inspired his son to twenty
(31:12):
years later be talking on a podcast he doesn't know
what a podcast is. Bear in mind reaching out to
people who he has never met, and thinking new thoughts
and building values and ideas. Do we know what we're
(31:34):
what we're doing, what we're reaching out, how we can
strengthen other people? Don't. Let's just take our our offering
put it in God's hands and see what God achieves
with it. This group of disciples standing around in Jerusalem
(31:59):
and two men say, okay, stop stirring up in the
sky and go do something. I'm sure they had ideas
about what they wanted to accomplish, but they wouldn't have
been able to foresee where we are two thousand years later.
I don't want to go too far into this, but
(32:19):
I've often thought a good story would be because we
put so much emphasis and value on results, and we
have this idea, my life is worthwhile if I accomplish
these results. And so let's put up a scale and
(32:43):
here are the good things I did, and here are
the bad things I did. And if I do more
good things than bad, I get to go to heaven.
And if I do more bad things than good, then
I go to hell. What if you can visualize a
room where you're sitting there and there's a big scale
(33:04):
on the wall, and at the time you died, the
things that you did had more good results on the
earth than bad. So you get to go there, and
every day at lunch you get biscuits, engravy and some
nice stuff. But then as time goes on, some of
the things that you do start to have cause different results,
(33:28):
and things go bad, and the scale starts tipping the
other way. And now one hundred and fifty years after
you've died, it turns out that some of your regardless
of your intentions, some of your results have backfired and
(33:48):
causing Oh, now you're living in hell because the results
of your life went in a different direction. And so
now another couple of hundred years go by and it
tips and goes the other way. The results of our
lives are not in our hands, is my point. We
(34:12):
we do what we can and as faithfully as we can,
and we aren't really sure. Yeah, oh what what happens?
What accidents of history can change things?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, that's well said.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's that's another reason to have you back on monthly,
so you can I can. Can you continue to ask
you these weird, open ended questions.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
That's because we live weird open ended lives.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
It's so true, It's so true. I love you, man.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I appreciate everything that you're doing, your words of wisdom.
One thing that I'm going to ponder on today is
about this uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
And I.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Wanted to just tell you that I appreciate you so
much and I'm going to run out and tell a
hundred people to stop using the word tolerate.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Here. Well, it's a lot better than intolerance, I would
say that. And I know what people mean when they
say tolerance, and they mean something good. It's just because
I carry that baggage with the word tolerance, I avoid
(35:43):
it personally. But so that doesn't make it the rule.
But I'm sure to appreciate this opportunity. I've never had
such a great list of questions that are open, needed
and opening the way to discuss that you've provided here.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Well, let's continue this the dance. You give me the
topic and we'll research it. So it's it's been a
joyful trip and it sounds like it's going to continue. Okay, folks,
you heard that Westminster chime on Bill's grandfather clock or
grandmother clock. So it's time to wish you success, but
(36:28):
on your way to significance, keep your eyes and mind
and heart in God's word, and remember just to be
kind and extend goodness and grace.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Have great week.
Hey, welcome back to success to significance. I'm Rick Tokeeny.
This is the doctor Bill Sapenfield series that's been asking
these critical questions during the lent season. Doctor Sapenfield and
I have known each other since let's see nineteen sixty
seven or sixty eight, which is forever, Doctor Bill.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Thank you very much, Rick, good see you this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Great to see you too. Thank you so much for
doing this series. I don't think I thank you enough.
I don't know, folks, how this series has affected you,
but it's driven me back into the Bible to read
different versions of the Bible, to read these key questions
that doctor Sapenfields is brought up for our attention during
(01:01):
this really special season. And I want Bill, I'd love
for you just to start today by talking about what
in the world is going on in Acts? Who wrote
the Book of Acts? And then we'll dive into the
key question of the day.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
And it is very important to us and unique among
books of the Bible, all four Gospels that we have Matthew, Mark, Luke,
and John record the words and acts and teachings of Jesus.
And then we have the letters written many of them
(01:47):
by Paul, which are how the Christian message spread around
the Mediterranean and a lot of people, Paul chief among them,
traveling around the Mediterranean area and formed communities and then
(02:09):
wrote letters to them. But Acts is the story of
how Paul did that. It's not so much the letters
that he wrote back to those communities, but starting with
this story that we're going to talk about this morning,
the very first thing that happens in Acts is Jesus
(02:30):
ascends into Heaven and the apostles are right there at
that place in Jerusalem, and then they go off of
the very next chapter, chapter two of Acts, we have
the blessing of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, which is
(02:53):
often called the birthday of the Church. This is when
we start having the the church is blessed by the
Holy Spirit. And now we go moving along and we're
introduced to Saul of Tarsus, whose name later changed to Paul,
(03:17):
and or we may have already been called Paul at
that point, but anyway, we start here, we start calling
him Paul, and all of his travels and the missionary
journeys he had around the Mediterranean, those are all recorded
in Acts and end up with Paul in Rome and
(03:41):
and so how the church grew is the Book of Acts.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And when you look, when you read through it, folks,
you can see that there are different churches that are
forming today. And maybe they don't necessarily have red bricks
and a steeple, but there are groups of communities. And
I was reading, I was reading through, and at least
(04:08):
in this particular Bible, it says that in those days
Peter stood up among the believers a group numbering about
one hundred and twenty and I thought, boy, the average
congregation in the United States is probably between sixty five
and eighty five people today, and he's got one hundred
(04:29):
and twenty believers at that stage. And he's talking about
the Holy Spirit coming and it being the guide. And
then we but you kind of you go back into
Acts one ten, and that's where this big question is asked.
So why don't take us from that point forward? Doctor Schappenfield.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Okay, Luke wrote his gospel, which we know as Luke
the Gospel according to Luke. But then he did a
follow up and what did Jesus' followers do after the
ministry of Jesus? And it's called the Acts of the apostles,
(05:15):
and this is the opening story. Jesus gives the apostles
last instructions, tells them that they will go into all
you will be my witnesses to the ends of the earth.
And incidentally, that word we have in English martyr, that
(05:36):
comes from the word for witness, and so you will
be my witnesses to the end of the earth. And
he goes up into heaven and the apostles are standing there,
and they've had this big crashing event, and we might think,
as we so often do, great, it's all done, end
(05:59):
of story. That's that. But they look down and here
are these two men standing here, which is exactly the
way Luke described the people at the empty tomb on
Easter morning. And these two men are standing there in
white robes, and they look at the apostles and say,
(06:23):
why do you stand looking up toward heaven? Which is
a wonderful question and ought to be asked of the
people of God more often. Why are you just standing
there staring up into heaven. Don't you have something to do?
Didn't Jesus just say something about you being my witnesses
to the end of the earth. And so let's let's
(06:48):
get this ball rolling, and that's what happens and why
I think that's a if you're going to make a
list of significant questions for or from the Bible, this
is a real good question to start with.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That's right, And so now I want you to comment
on this.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
How does this particular passage encourage today's believers to shift
from just passively waiting to some active participation in God's work?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
The history of it. Okay, look what happened here? We
have this, as you say, a small group of people
standing around staring up into heaven and Jesus says, you
will be my witnesses to the ends of the earth.
What we want to take a very narrow reading of that. No,
(07:49):
they didn't. They didn't go to the ends of the earth.
There are lots of places that they didn't get to.
Where every listener is sitting right now is one of
those places they did get to. They started right there,
but their message reached the ends of the earth. In
(08:14):
the thinking of existentialism, you might call it the theology
of the spot. You're at a spot right now, and
when you think about your relationship with God or anything
important that you ever did, you might wish you were
at a different spot gee where I used to be,
(08:38):
people were much nicer to me. Or I seem to
be making much more difference in people's lives used to
Or I'm going to start at some point in the
future doing something I'm going to as soon as I
have enough money, as soon as the kids are grown.
(08:58):
There's always something you can do at some other spot
than the one you are at. Well, that group was
standing right there and Jesus left said, Okay, you're going
to be my witnesses to the ends of the earth.
So we're going to start right here wherever you are.
(09:20):
That's where you are, And if you are going to
make a difference in life, then this is where you're
going to start from. And so this spot is you know,
don't wait for a different time in your life, different abilities,
things that you don't know. You may not start from
(09:45):
some spot in Jerusalem. You may start from wherever you
happen to be right now, some point where you're in
your schooling. I don't care. You may be old and
sick and going to die tomorrow, but this is the
spot you're at and you can be a witness to
(10:07):
the love of God in this world.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Oh my gosh, that's a that's our call to action,
our CTA off of this, and that that ties into
when do you start engaging with the world as Christ commanded?
And you're saying it could basically take place at any
age and stage. What what have you done in the past,
(10:35):
doctor Sippenfield to help people get their motor running other
than doing seven or eight podcast in a row with.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Well, this is a big, a big thing. I've never
done this before, and I certainly appreciate the opportunity. But
we can all do that by just asking ourselves questions
what needs to happen in my life before I can
start living this way? And you can always find the answer. Well,
(11:06):
you know, it's kind of silly. We can always come
up with reasons that we can't do it yet. I
don't have enough money yet, I have too many other
responsibilities right now. I can't improve my health because I'm overweight,
you know, things like that. I said, Well, that's what
(11:27):
it means to get started right now. Stop thinking about
when you can, don't judge your don't make your probability
of success, the statement of the determining factor and whether
(11:48):
or not you are going to do anything that you
think and needs to be done. Okay, I probably won't
be successful. We could make the case that any one
of those disciples who's named in the first of the
Book of Acts, none of them were successes. Uh you
(12:08):
know they they never wound up rich that I know of.
And yet look what they were able to accomplish and
are still accomplishing.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
This this story goes on to name the people who
were gathered in that group, and that's that's a very
fine group. And we name universities after these men. There's
you know, Saint Andrew and Saint Peter and others. But
(12:43):
your name is on that group, somebody who heard this
message and wanted to spread that message to other people.
And you don't get a name book in the Bible
named after you. But as long as you participate in
this very important task that Jesus gave as followers of
(13:11):
going into all the world teaching them, telling people what's
really important, what sharing what values you should have, you're
part of that group that was gathered then and continues
to grow. And as you say, we say church, when
we start thinking about big buildings and towering steeples, well goodness,
(13:34):
I think that archaeologically they've determined that the first actual
building they have found to be a church exclusively for
a church building was about three hundred years after Jesus
Jesus' resurrection. You don't have to have a building, you don't,
(13:57):
you know, any time you can spread had a message
of having values, of courage to do things that will
share your values with the world. You're participating and you
are doing one of the acts of the Apostles.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
He's just reminded me of when we took our daughters
to Cuba on a mission trip, and it was during
the Obama administration where they were allowing people to go
to Cuba, and we were.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
With this.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Church that was starting up that was meeting almost in
an area where they could meet in secret because they
were being accused by the country and the politicians of
being against them.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
And they took us over to this.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Part of town and they said this is our church,
and there was no roof, and we're all looking up
and I'm wondering, is a roof required for a church?
And it really it kind of stopped us in our tracks.
(15:25):
And you want to contribute for the roof of their church,
but you wonder, boy, are we missing the big picture here.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Why do you stand staring up into heaven? There's no
roof and I can.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Hey, we always, at least I was always taught that
when you go to a church service that there's a
part of them worship where you're preparing your heart. And
are those that are listening out there that are wondering
what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
What can I do?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Can we say prepare your heart? Prepare your heart. It's
a heart condition and it's not about this isn't a
call to action to go hop in your car.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
And go to church on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
And it's just a call to action to be kind
and to think of other people and to if you see,
if you see somebody in need, to respond to that
need and.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Listen to your heart.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Beautiful, that's right the word that you used there. Listen,
Listen to your heart, be open, listen to God no
matter how God's speaking to you from somebody else.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
There.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Are you listening to friends? Are you listening to people
you disagree with? Are you listening to a child? You know?
Trying to give guidance to someone about what you think
is right, and then when they think that they have
something else that's right? Are you honestly listening to a
(17:21):
different point of view? The kind of conversation I would
really like for people to be in is one of listening.
That's why I get nervous and a bit skeptical when
I hear people who are spreading the word through their confidence.
(17:45):
And what I mean by that is, this is what
you need to do, and I can give you all
of the answers. I would be a lot more comfortable
with asking questions, listening learning, being pretty sure I'm not
going to have all of these answers until it's time
(18:06):
for me to die. It's uh. I'm much more comfortable
with people who are asking questions and listening for answers
than I am for all of the shouted certainties that
(18:26):
the church seems to be known for.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, thank you for saying that shouted certainties, which is
a nice bridge into how do you see today's passage
speaking to the modern church, especially in a time when
so called Christians feel uncertain about the future. Is that
(18:51):
kind of tied into what you said before. There's certain
individuals that think that they need to shout certainties in
a world that's so uncertain.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
And it's that's not the way to overcome when when
we're uncertain, that's not a reason for despair. That's the
time to uh. You know, you can be certain that
you are here for a reason that you're uh. You
(19:25):
can participate in the love of God. Uh. And I
I can participate in the love of God by valuing
other people, listening to them, hoping that I can learn
from them all and so show my love for God,
not by what I disapprove of, but for patients, encouraging
(19:50):
people I don't understand. Uh. I don't like the word
toleration very much. Toleration means I'm putting with something that's bad,
which is a very good thing to do, I suppose,
but it also implies that it's bad. What if I
(20:11):
can use instead the word appreciation. So you have different
ideas about what's valuable, You have different ideas about how
you want to live in this community. What can I
learn from that? How can I make you and me
(20:32):
more comfortable with each other? And so we can listen
to someone who may not even have very much to say,
but just the fact that we're with them, we're making
them feel important or by letting them know that I
(20:53):
realize that you're a child of God and you've got
something to say. And I know this is not the
first time I've heard you tell me this story, but
I'm going to listen to it again. And that's that
bills our appreciation for each other as a child of God.
(21:18):
Absolutely like these like these apostles told us, you don't
have to go very far to be a witness to
the ends of the earth. Jesus said, be my witness
to the ends of the earth. Okay, right here where
I am, I can be a witness to the ends
of the earth.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
That means ten yards to your left or to your
right of your front yard, your neighbors, fifteen yards across
the street. Get on, mopack, start treating me right. You
know it's it's it's right in front of you people. Okay,
(22:03):
We're gonna take a break and do our weekly Bible trivia.
And this child of God last week was asking doctor
Sappenfield about what was put on the cross, and I
think you said, I nuri.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And what is that?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
The Bible trivia for the week is about Christian symbols
and what that means.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
So take it away, Okay, you almost never see this
just on the top of a cross. It will be
on the top of a crucifix. And the difference is
that the body of Jesus is on the cross that
makes a crucifix, and so you'll see I R I
(22:45):
on the top of that. And that's because crosses are
usually too small to write out the full message of
all four of the gospels tell us that there was
a sign at the top of the cross that says
Jesus of Nazareth, king of the Jews. And John, in
(23:08):
addition to that statement, like the other three gospels have,
John takes us off to a little more detail and
says this says John the Baptist, I'm sorry, Jesus of Nazareth,
king of the Jews. And it's written in three different languages.
It's written in Roman, in Latin, which was the language
(23:29):
of the Roman Empire, so it's written in Latin. It's
written in Greek because that was the common language for
the Mediterranean area, and it was written in Hebrew. So
it's written all three there. And if you actually there
are some paintings that are really big and have it
(23:50):
written in all three languages. Rembrandt has a wonderful painting,
which is pretty much life size, and the eye and
up on the top has that written out in Latin
and in Greek and in Hebrew. However, it's usually pretty
tough to write that in three languages at the top
(24:13):
of a little cross that you're going to hang in
a hospital room. So the initials in Latin are in
are I Jesis Nazareth, Rexus Eudaeus, and so that's just
the initial of Jesus of Nazareth, king of the Jews.
(24:36):
Most of our symbols in church, and we've got more
than you know, just because you see them all the time,
and it gets to the point where you ignore them,
but ask people from time to time what does that mean?
And then you can both go find out together, because
the person you're asking doesn't know either. And most of
(24:56):
them are from Greek, because remember, of the two thousand
years that we've had Holy Scripture are the New Testament. Anyway,
we didn't have a printing press. We didn't get a
printing press until about five hundred years ago, and so
you had to write it out by hand, and so
(25:17):
abbreviations were a really good idea. And so since you're
writing it in Greek. We'll see that thing that looks
like an XP superimposed one on another, and that's Greek.
That's not XP. That is a chi row a and
(25:40):
R sound and those are just the first two letters
of the name Christ. Who here has noticed ihs on
the front of altars or in the middle of a cross,
we'll see ihs and again that's not ihs, that's just Greek.
The yoda ata sigma the first three letters of Jesus's name,
(26:05):
and there the alpha and omega is very popular from
the Greek alphabet. I am the beginning in the end.
And we have lots of symbols from the Greek just
because they are they're trying to save some paper. They
(26:28):
really are. You know, you get the original manuscripts that
you dig up in some archaeological site, there's not spacing
between the words they have run on things. It can
be very difficult. We've made our life very easy for ourselves.
(26:50):
When we want to study the Bible. You can get
a whole printed Bible for about the price of a
happy meal. And when you think of what they were
going through in the first couple of hundred years of Christianity,
of having to travel and copy it down and make
ink and we've got it pretty easy.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Guys, We sure do, we sure did. Thank you for that,
Doctor Sappenfield. Okay, we're going to wrap up this show
and I'm going to.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Ask doctor Sappenfield if he will consider coming on once
a month so we can continue this series.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
I have been fed.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
By what you've been teaching and I want you to
ponder it, pray about it, and it'll be strictly on
your schedule, not Ricky's schedule.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Tuesday's at eight thirty.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
So I want you to think about coming on once
a month to continue our conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Will you ponder that?
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Sure, I'd love to. It's very kind of you to
suggest it. I would be interested in your input and
in the input of any listeners that we have of
what subjects they would like to address.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, sir, that's that's a great idea. That's doctor Sappenfield
putting the audience first versus the writers of this particular
show or God's words.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So that's great. Well, thank you for considering that.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I need for you to personally minister to me as
we wrap up this show. Twenty years ago this week,
my dad died on Good Friday, March twenty seventh, and.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's it's a I look back on it now, Bill
and I and I.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Even listened to some of the tapes in a podcast
that we did with my dad, and I go, uh, well,
it was a great guy. He had all these wonderful
things that he wanted to accomplish in his life. Seldom
did he finish anything, though, And I'm reminded about showing
(29:09):
the comment that I picked up in the last week,
show me your results, not your intentions, and sort of time.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
I'm sorry to say that again, show me your results.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Show me your results, not your intentions. And it sort
of ties into what we've been talking about today. You know, what,
what can we do to kind of kickstart kindness and
love and grace to others? And I just I want
your perspective on you know, here we are twenty years
later and we're approaching seventy and we loved our parents.
(29:44):
Wondering if I guess my big question is if he's
watching today from heaven, what are his expectations of what
we're supposed to be doing as the next generation to
carry forth the best virtues of my dad, which are
probably imagination and creativity, and design and all of that.
(30:08):
So I'm I'm kind of I'm going through my twenty
year grieving process of missing daddy. And I don't know
if you've ever felt that way about your dad or not,
and I don't, but I can you address those murky
statements I just made and trying to make sense of it?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I think those are universal for all people and loved
ones whom we miss and wondering about our own lives.
Because when we say to ourselves, Okay, what are your
results rather than your intentions? And where I like to
start with that, and I hope I will grow beyond
(30:50):
that at some point. Is what gives you the hubris
to say that you know your results. Your dad, as
he was dying, say, oh gosh, what did I accomplish?
Did he know that he inspired his son to twenty
(31:12):
years later be talking on a podcast he doesn't know
what a podcast is. Bear in mind reaching out to
people who he has never met, and thinking new thoughts
and building values and ideas. Do we know what we're
(31:34):
what we're doing, what we're reaching out, how we can
strengthen other people? Don't. Let's just take our our offering
put it in God's hands and see what God achieves
with it. This group of disciples standing around in Jerusalem
(31:59):
and two men say, okay, stop stirring up in the
sky and go do something. I'm sure they had ideas
about what they wanted to accomplish, but they wouldn't have
been able to foresee where we are two thousand years later.
I don't want to go too far into this, but
(32:19):
I've often thought a good story would be because we
put so much emphasis and value on results, and we
have this idea, my life is worthwhile if I accomplish
these results. And so let's put up a scale and
(32:43):
here are the good things I did, and here are
the bad things I did. And if I do more
good things than bad, I get to go to heaven.
And if I do more bad things than good, then
I go to hell. What if you can visualize a
room where you're sitting there and there's a big scale
(33:04):
on the wall, and at the time you died, the
things that you did had more good results on the
earth than bad. So you get to go there, and
every day at lunch you get biscuits, engravy and some
nice stuff. But then as time goes on, some of
the things that you do start to have cause different results,
(33:28):
and things go bad, and the scale starts tipping the
other way. And now one hundred and fifty years after
you've died, it turns out that some of your regardless
of your intentions, some of your results have backfired and
(33:48):
causing Oh, now you're living in hell because the results
of your life went in a different direction. And so
now another couple of hundred years go by and it
tips and goes the other way. The results of our
lives are not in our hands, is my point. We
(34:12):
we do what we can and as faithfully as we can,
and we aren't really sure. Yeah, oh what what happens?
What accidents of history can change things?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, that's well said.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
That's that's another reason to have you back on monthly,
so you can I can. Can you continue to ask
you these weird, open ended questions.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
That's because we live weird open ended lives.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
It's so true, It's so true. I love you, man.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I appreciate everything that you're doing, your words of wisdom.
One thing that I'm going to ponder on today is
about this uncertainty.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
And I.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Wanted to just tell you that I appreciate you so
much and I'm going to run out and tell a
hundred people to stop using the word tolerate.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Here. Well, it's a lot better than intolerance, I would
say that. And I know what people mean when they
say tolerance, and they mean something good. It's just because
I carry that baggage with the word tolerance, I avoid
(35:43):
it personally. But so that doesn't make it the rule.
But I'm sure to appreciate this opportunity. I've never had
such a great list of questions that are open, needed
and opening the way to discuss that you've provided here.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Well, let's continue this the dance. You give me the
topic and we'll research it. So it's it's been a
joyful trip and it sounds like it's going to continue. Okay, folks,
you heard that Westminster chime on Bill's grandfather clock or
grandmother clock. So it's time to wish you success, but
(36:28):
on your way to significance, keep your eyes and mind
and heart in God's word, and remember just to be
kind and extend goodness and grace.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Have great week.
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