September 5, 2025 • 30 mins
Evan Ehrenberg is truly significant. As co-founder of Waterlily, he and his team are helping people age with a plan. Inspired by his co-founder Lily's aunt who was diagnosed with cancer, they witnessed a family that went bankrupt from an unexpected health crisis.
Evan began pursuing a Ph.D at M.I.T. starting at the age of 16 but switched gears and instead decided to build a health company, which he later sold. He soon joined forces at Waterlily applying his computational skills, AI and leadership experience to build a formidable company. Today, Waterlily is making a significant differerence predicting the future cost of living beyond your planned years.
Learn more at www.waterlily.com and how they are reshaping conversation around aging and quality of life. Plan ahead and be prepared.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.
Evan began pursuing a Ph.D at M.I.T. starting at the age of 16 but switched gears and instead decided to build a health company, which he later sold. He soon joined forces at Waterlily applying his computational skills, AI and leadership experience to build a formidable company. Today, Waterlily is making a significant differerence predicting the future cost of living beyond your planned years.
Learn more at www.waterlily.com and how they are reshaping conversation around aging and quality of life. Plan ahead and be prepared.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, welcome back to Truly Significant dot com Presents. I'm
Rick Tolkiny. Our very special guest today is Evan aaron Berg,
who is the co founder of water Lily. I could
read his resume and background all day long. This is
how I've cherry picked it. Though. We're getting to talk
(00:31):
to a real live polymath today who plays piano, cooks
board games, knows neurosigns, and ai who happens to have
co founded water Lily, which is a company that I
think has has significance because you actually care about people
(00:51):
aging with dignity and with that, Evan, welcome to our show.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Thank you so much for having me. Rick looking forward
to the conversation today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, sir, so tell us your backstory, especially the part
about you starting college at eleven.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah. I had a really fortunate opportunity when I was younger. Gosh,
I have been such a long time now, I'm kind
of not used to having the conversation so much. But
I when I was going through grade school. I remember
in about third grade or so, I think I was
answering all the questions in class and the teacher said, hey,
(01:31):
you know, it's great Evan, you know knows everything. But
now other kids are just kind of like waiting for
him to answer, So you know, maybe we should skip
him to like fourth grade or fifth grade, And so
I met with the school psychologist. Now, yeah, we go
in fifth or sixth grade. Honestly, I don't think Evan
belongs here, like he could I do high school, and
my parents just thought that was absurd, and eventually deal
(01:55):
a little of homeschooling for like half a year, and
then did actually try high school and that was but
then I kind of went through the grades a bit faster.
And then a neighbor of ours she was taking some
community college classes, and so we decided to try. That
ended up being a really great fit, and the community
college invited me to come full time when I was twelve,
and so I did you know, two years, got my
(02:16):
socials degree when I was fourteen. I then transferred to
u C. Berkeley as a junior, did my two years there,
if my bachelor's degree, did a lot of research in
theoretical neuroscience, and then went to MIT for my PhD
when I was sixteen in confiational neuroscience, which essentially my
research there was you know, what can we learn from
the brain, which has essentially figured out how to do
(02:37):
really smart things and help me apply that to computers.
And so my PhD, a lot of that work was
very similar to sort of the things that we're seeing
in sort of the AI boom today. And then, gosh,
six years into my PhD, I actually dropped out right
before I was meant to defend my thesis, and I
started a company called Clara Health, which was helping helping
(02:59):
page and access clinical trials and helping pharmer companies bring
drugs to market faster so that more people can benefit sooner.
And so that was kind of my first foray into
into startups. I scaled that company over several years and
then sold it, and I started doing some angel investing
in and other like really bright young founders. And that
was actually how I met the original founder and the
(03:20):
CEO of Water, Lilly Lily the Tyrock School. I made
a small angel investment, and then the more and more
I saw the work she was doing, the more curious
I got, the more excited I got, and eventually ended
up joining her as a co founder. So that's kind
of trump very early childhood up through where I'm at today.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Beautiful, your life has been about choices and about being
at the right time and at the right place. Teach
us about how you may make choices today.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
A lot of it is first principles thinking. It's really
funny to look back when I was ten and eleven,
when I was like first taking college courses, I was
thinking through, like how can I make the most significant
impact because I, you know, I knew I was I
was smart, and I wanted to I didn't want to
take that for granted. I wanted to be able to
(04:13):
leave the world with something impactful. And I had initially
gravitated towards like aerostice engineering. I was kind of a
very sort of Elon Musk mindset back, you know, twenty
years ago, of like we got to get off this planet.
It's too risky. We need to you know, spread out,
and so I was doing that. But then as I
sort of learned more about about AI and things, I mind,
I was like, I was like ten, I thought, gosh,
(04:36):
you know, if you really can improve AI and make
something more and more effective, that would improve aerostiss engineering
and all that, but it would also improve medicine and
chemistry on all these other sciences, and it would probably
be the most impacted thing. So that was when I
pivoted kind of like eleven into you know, studying neuroscience
or cognitive science and computer science and artificial intelligence. I
(04:58):
was kind of my focus with my PAGD. The reason
that I then shifted from this was when I started
the company Clara Health. It was initially a side project
essentially with my page. It was really interesting, but we
started to help you know, cancer patients find clinical trials
and just completely changed their their life. And being able
(05:23):
to run a company you have like a lot more
leverage and impact like what you're able to do. And
so even though I felt that you know, researching AI
as a task or as a cause a very very
impactful high leverage that we're seeing it today with all
the advancements, it's it's impacting every single industry, but it
felt that the amount that I could improve that was
(05:46):
kind of risky, where like I might make a very
very significant lead forward and be fantastic, or I may
toil away for decades on research that just from luck
of the draw never actually makes any meaningful progress. Versus
running a company that is very very high impact, I
have a little more control over ensuring that the things
(06:07):
I'm doing, are actually going to make massive impact in
the lives of you know, millions of families. So that
was sort of my pivot into focusing on that in
Claire Health. And then I think similar here with water Lily.
You know, I when I invested in Lily, I just
did it because she was super, super smart. Frankly, I
(06:27):
didn't know anything about long term care industry. But when
I started to see some success and I was like, oh,
this is interesting, what are you doing? And I learned
more about it, it became really obvious that this was
an area that's just completely overlooked. It's everybody's affected by it,
very very seriously. It's a terrible event that happens, like
most families, no one's prepared, and you actually have you know,
(06:50):
worse quality of life, likely shorter lifespans due to how
care is provided and the ability to intervene and help people.
There was similar in that, like, you can pretty much
guarantee you're going to make this extremely important impact to
a family, and then you can scale that, you know,
to millions of billions really even of families across the world.
(07:12):
And so that's sort of been how I've found things
that I feel like are worth working on. It's is
the impact worth it? And is my is my impact
to the thing even, you know, consequential. I'd rather do
something where I'm actually relevant and you sort of need
someone of my skill set to be able to do
something there, and I think I found some spots where
(07:33):
I can be handy.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, that was so well stated. That's a lesson, folks,
about choosing what you want to do at any stage
of your career. And is your impact consequential? What a
what a powerful statement. And so simply put, you and
Lily are two birds of a feather about wanting to
(08:00):
deeply impact humanity. Share a story about someone whose life
has been deeply impacted by water Lily's work, you.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Know, I'll I'll share a personal one first, and then
I'll share maybe a better one. Part of the reason
I decided to join Lily on this journey was I
was curious about how software like what it was and
why it was working so well, and she said, oh,
just go ahead and try it for yourself, be a
end user. And so I put in all of my
(08:33):
medical information and sociomographic information, financial information, and I got
my own predictions of what my future long term care
needsould look like, as well as education of what even
as long term care, why I should care about it?
What you know, it's insurance been covered or not? No,
it's not. Uh, And a couple things shocked me. I
think for me, it was like seven or eight million
dollars of future cost which to explain, you know, I'm
(08:55):
in like a pretty high cost living city, and I'm young,
so I have many decades for healthcare costs to compound
in how much they grow For it to get that large,
my costs wouldn't be sething milliontography and care right now.
But that was a sizable chunk of cash that I
wasn't really thinking about for my retirement. But then also
(09:15):
it was showing me, I think needing long term care
starting in my very late seventies, which was really concerning
for me. I was, you know, planning for you know,
nineties or older. And I kind of looked at my
personal health and the main thing was I was I
was medically overweight. This was before COVID. I was really fit,
had a six pack and everything. And then I lived
(09:37):
with my friends for two years during COVID and I
cooked for them. You mentioned I like cook I like
to use a lot of butter when I cook. I
stopped working out and I must have gained at least
twenty five pounds and I went from being very fit
to to being overweight. And that was the only thing
point to to my medical information of like why my
health would not be be a longer health span. And
(09:58):
so that was a pretty bit wake up call for
me to I hired a personal trainer and I went
on a diet and well, I've lost most of the weight,
not quite back to six pack yet, but I think
I'm on the right path. And I also started changing
some of my financial planning and stuff like max up
my HSA and things like that. And that was for me, like, wow,
(10:20):
it's really really hard with pure software to get somebody
to make behavioral changes like this to their to their health,
their finances. And you did it for me in like
thirty minutes. And I'm pretty stubborn. So that was kind
of why I joined. It's interesting, though, you know, Walterlay
isn't built to make these changes. These are just bonuses.
(10:41):
It's like, oh, by the way, you know, it might
motivate you or do this, And we've actually seen this
in others we have, Like you know, wealth advisors oftentimes
use our software with their clients. We had a story
of a wealth advisor who used it. He shared it
with his wife, he shared it with his father in law.
His father in law lost forty pounds in like six
months after getting his predictions and sort of more experience.
To me, those ones are interesting simply because it's pretty
(11:05):
significant impact to somebody's quality of life to lose that
much weight and be healthy and you know, hopefully to
keep it off. And it's not even the point of
the software. It's not weight loss. It's just a bit
of a wake of call, I think for other people,
Like the main point is we're trying to help you
plan and prepare for this event, and we just hear
left and right all the time. I was really worried
(11:26):
about long term care. I saw my parents go through it.
I have a friend whose parents went through it. I
was really anxious about it. I got the prediction. It
was a big expense, but it was finally clear. It
wasn't this nebulous, confusing what's going to happen? It was
I kind of know what to expect, and I can
now actually plan for it concretely. And have a lot
(11:49):
more confidence with what this event is likely going to
look like. So that's I've been like consistently, every single
person who goes through it, they feel so much better.
In fact, they're prepared, and so we'll see the big,
big impact, you know, ten twenty thirty years from now,
when those people start to need long term care and
they have a plan in place. That's when was I
(12:09):
think the most significant impact. But yeah, that's what I
can see.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
It is.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
For those of you that aren't familiar with water Lily,
go ahead and give out your website so they can
go in and start to fill the ripple effect as
we say it.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, so you can check us out at Waterlily dot com.
And I'll be clear today the platform is really built
for professionals to use it with their clients, but we
are working with consumers as well. So today it's selling
that you know, wealth advisors and estate planners and insurance
agents and other professionals and long term care specialists in
(12:48):
this field use to have a much better planning conversation
with their clients to help them get ready for long
term care. And so it sort of makes this prediction
of what your future needs look like, it helps guide
you through how you want to address those needs. Do
you want to age at home or a care facility?
Compare what the costs look like, what it looks like,
you know practically for you, what we think your family's
(13:11):
involvement is going to look like, and allow you to
proactively adjust that to be realistic and set yourself up
for success. And then once we have all of those,
you know, we may we know what we think is
most likely going to happen to you based on over
half a billion data points and our machine learning all
WORITHM is predicting what we think is for you personally,
your most likely long term care event. And then we've
personalized it further by saying, given this event, how do
(13:33):
you actually want to address those care needs? Then we
have a really good understanding of what your cost is
going to be, adjusting for health care, inflation and everything,
and then we could take a look at how do
you want to cover those costs? They're usually one of
the most significant parts of retirement, and so we can
just you know, evaluate just with math, you know, self
funding versus if you are looking at like an insurance
product or a newity product, we plug it in and
(13:55):
we actually run the math to see does it make sense,
this is a good deal? Should you do it? Should
you self fund? And just try to make that really transparent.
And so we make it really, really really simple. But
because you know, abvious things are regulated like insurance props
and stuff, we have we've been building the platform for
professionals to use it, but more recently we wanted to
learn from the end consumers who were using the platform
(14:17):
and to see how can make this better and easier.
And so a couple of months back, my co founder
Lily she actually went and got her insurance licenses for
health Life and launching care so she can legally use
our own software with the public and help build plans
for them. And the main goal for us with this
is just we want to just understand, like, how are
(14:38):
people using it? How can we make it better whereas
it confusing. We've learned a ton and the cool thing
is if you're a consumer and you want to try
this out, we'll just do it for free because we're
getting learnings out of this of you know, we get
to interact with you. We can see how I use
the software. Normally people would either charge you for this
or they you know, make a ton of commission and
they might have some bias here, and we're just like, no, like,
just let us watch you use it. That's all the
(15:00):
payment we need, and it really just we're happy to
help you and let you get the benefit from it.
So if you are you know a family who wants
to use this platform, our team is happy to guide
you through it and kind of take you onto the
client just for free because we're going to learn f
that interaction. And then if you're a professional who works
in the space, you know the software is built for
you and you can subscribe and start using with your
(15:21):
clients today.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You guys have big hearts and we're going to continue
talking with Evan here momentarily, but stand by and listen
to this special message from Marcus Arrelius.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
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Speaker 1 (17:19):
And we're back with Evan Ehrenberg, who is the co
founder of water Lily. Of all the things you could
be doing in your lifetime right now, you've chosen this path.
Somebody along the way has shaped your heart to think
of others first. Who are the people that you like
(17:41):
to think right now?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Gosh, my parents and my extended family as well. I
think they did a really fantastic job raising me. You
made me sort of really care about others and all
of that from a young age. But I've also had
a lot of really fantastic mentor growing up just throughout
my academic career. I like all of the people I've
(18:06):
worked with just had been really fantastic folks. To call
it one one, my PhD thesis advisor, Pa donsenh he
honestly he has the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met.
I was drawn to his research because they were kind
of looking at fundamentally, how does the human brain learn
to do vision in complex tasks. There was this wonderful
(18:28):
merge of AI and neuroscience, which I was passionate about.
But he also found this incredible way to forge incredible
humanitarian impact where he created a foundation project Prakash, which
goes into these remote villages in India and finds children
who have dense bilateral conngeneral cataracts. So essentially, they're born
(18:53):
with cataracts that are so so dense they're they're they're blind.
They're legally blind. You know, their eyes are white, And
unfortunately in India, the culture is oftentimes to like shun
these individuals and think that they may be cursed. There's
a lots especially superstitions about it. They go in, they
do the surgery for free, and I'll share like in
the US and more developed countries, if a child is
(19:15):
born with this, it's not an issue because they do
the surgery like shortly after birth and they grow up
with regular fish because you're just sucking out the Cataract's
like a very easy surgery and so it's never an issue.
So he did this, But then you have this really
fascinating research opportunity as well. These children are learning to
see for the first time. Their brain has never had
(19:37):
visual input besides just basic light and dark contrast, and
you can ask them about things like what do you see?
And it's a fantastic research opportunity because when you have
babies who are learning to see for the first time,
you can't really ask the stuff. You're making guesses based
on how long they just kind of look at stuff,
and it's so hard like are they looking at it
because they see something or just there that's where their
(19:58):
head is and their head is heavy, and so it's
so interesting to like one of the coolest things I
think is you have like these overlapping concentric circles. And
to you and me you would say, oh, this is
like two circles that are overlapping, it's two items. But
to these children who have just learned how to see,
they'll say it's three. So it's one. It's this middle
(20:19):
one is two and this one is three. But then
if you start to move them, they will say it's two.
And perhaps to somebody who's not you know, on the
PhD in neuroscience, that that's not that interesting to me.
That is so fastinting. It was incredible breakthrough for the
for the industry. There's a famous French philosopher, Mala Nu
who had to ask, like, if you show somebody who's
(20:41):
blind like a circle in a square, you know, will
they be able to differentiate them having touched them but
never seen them before and so get to answer questions
like that and everything. So but he just has the
biggest heart. Obviously, the research partner is fascinating, but his
you know, the primary thing he hears about is like
saving the children everything. He is just sleep by far,
the nicest, kindest human being I've ever ever met. I'm
(21:03):
talking about him a lot. I obviously look up to
him very very much. He's also sort of helped me
get into startups in the first place. I have him
to think for much of this. I think many people
do for their mentors.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
What a wonderful tribute what a person people can choose
to be significant along their path of success. And we've
always studied epiphanies that people have and the flash of
brilliance that moment when it happens. This is a bit
(21:35):
off course from our script today, but you're such a
rare guest to have on the show to address this.
Is there a way that we can speed up epiphanies
in our lifetime?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I can speak from a practical perspective, you know, knowing
some stuff about neuroscience, getting a really good night sleep
helps with that. You know oftentimes here about about famous
epiphanies that come to people in their dreams. And this
is because, like sleep is a biological function, your brain
is taking this time to go through and kind of
clean up connections. It is when you actually extore your
(22:15):
memories and everything. So you have much better memory retention
if you if you sleep well. And so I think
kind of drawing connections from maybe I would say epiphanies
are oftentimes drawing disparate connections that maybe are not obvious
that suddenly become magical. And I think that sleeping is
going to be like get the full eight hours of sleep.
I know it's become really popular. You know, recently theres
(22:37):
a loss of you know, health tech startups emphasize and
sleep and everything. I took a sleep psychology course at
at at UC Berkeley and was really fortunate to have
with a really famous sleep psychologist, and it was just
drilled into me again, sing it again, how incredibly important
sleep is. And of course that's really hard to do
when you're a co founder of a startup, but it is.
It is, so honestly, it's that simple thing for more epiphanies.
(23:00):
Get more sleep and exercise, and you know all the
obvious stuff it's it's it's sleep, it's exercises, good diet,
but I would say sleep is number one. Follow that
exercise give you more epiphanies, for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
A great advice. I wonder, though, what you say tongue
in cheek about startup founders because sleep is not typically
on their plate.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
No? I today, you know, I got six hours of sleep,
which is it's not awful, but it's not good. I
mean eight, I think it's unfortunately for a lot of people,
eight is like the goal and eight needs to be
the standard, like it's so important. Not enough people talk
about it. It's hard with running a company, and oftentimes
(23:42):
I think when you are a founder, you know, especially
in the early stages, that is the trade off, like
you kind of have to treat yourself almost like a
pawn in the company. And if you are willing and
able to do this tremendous feet of work and it
makes it different to the company. Yeah, you got to
do that, and it's bad for your health. And frankly,
I'm I'll be honest, I'm I'll be not doing as
(24:03):
great in this interview as I would have if I
had eight hours of sleep. And I thought about that
when I went to sleep last night, when I woke
up today, because I was looking forward to having this
conversation with you, Rick. But sometimes that's the tray off
that makes sense. I think as companies get bigger, if
you're a founder or something, you know, you have a
little opportunity to sleep more and make sure you make
fewer decisions. But with you know, higher accuracy or make
(24:25):
better ones. I think, Okay, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, after talking Tolilly and now after talking to you,
it is crystal clear that you two are going to
influence public policy. But in the midst of all the
other things that you're trying to accomplish within your company,
where's where are you going to take the obvious role
(24:51):
that has been put upon you of all the information
that you have could literally sway public policy. What are
you going to do about that?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Great question? I think I'll reference back a little bit
earlier in the conversation. I was talking about how I
think it's really important to do things where you can
make a really big impact. I think one of the
reasons that I look at kind of startups as sort
of for profit companies as being one of the most
impactful things compared to maybe what might seem like more
obvious answers of do a nonprofit or going to politics
(25:23):
and government is I think in nonprofits it can be
challenged easy to make a big impact in a small community.
It's hard to scale that impact two millions or billions
of people. With government. I see not in politics, but
I see a lot of things that seem frustrating to
make change. There's a lot of barriers. When you're running
(25:43):
your own company, you have a lot more freedom with
understanding the dynamics of the market and how things work
and just sort of like getting things to work. And
then if it's for a profit, you can create sort
of a flywheel that allows you to hit a scale
where if you can build a for profit company that
is making positive impact and then just increase the scale
(26:03):
very very big, you can have this impact of billions
of people, and you can probably do it a lot
faster than you could in nonprofits or in government. Now
that said, I do think that public policy is aqually
important part of this of this industry, and everything we're
trying to do is how do you solve the problem.
There's a lot of stuff we can do from like
a product perspective, and what we do as a company.
(26:25):
I think a lot of it is also part of
public policy. And so we're starting to have more and
more conversations with state governments, some federal government conversations just
about what we're seeing, what we you know, how we
want to protect you know, American citizens, and also on
the public stage. I don't know if you cover this
with literally but you know, she's spoken now at two
(26:48):
of the annual World Economic Forum meetings, talking with you know,
foreign government officials and major companies across the across the
world about what this kind of aging crist this impact
is going to look like. And so right now we're
doing our best just sort of share information, share what
we're seeing, and you know, when asked your opinion of
what we think could make things look better for folks.
(27:09):
And I expect as we become hopefully more influential, so
that the things that we're doing that we think can
be helpful is you know, pay attention to more. I
expect that we'll do more and more work in politics,
just trying to be as helpful as possible so that
we can impact you know, all the people that really
need help.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Here.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
What a great spirit you t have. It has been
an honor to honor you and Lily. I've got one
final question for you, and it's if you could give
one piece of advice to the next generation about aging, caring,
and living significantly. What would that be.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I think mostly talk and think about it, but it
doesn't have to be in like a really sad, depressing way.
Treat it like a like a project that's really interesting.
I'll compare it. I was just thinking about because that's
some of your initial thoughts earlier. There's this concept of
like a prepper, somebody who like prepares for of like
(28:09):
doomsday scenario, looking at bunkers and having you know, MRIs
and water and all this stuff, and it's very depressing
to think about the world where you have to use
those things. But there's this whole community that just loves
talking about it. Oh, it's so cool. I'm looking at,
you know, all these things and think about the doomsday
and frankly, the likelihood of a doomsday event seems pretty low.
(28:32):
The likelihood of needing long term care is very high.
And people don't talk about they don't build a plan,
and people are like, oh, I got this bunk in
my backyard. Okay, do you have like railings for your
showers you don't slip and fall and like, you know,
significantly decrease your quality of life. I almost feel like,
if you think prepping is interesting, try to treat long
term care in the exact same way and look at
(28:53):
these things is like really cool and interesting, and have
conversations with your family because the likelihood of this event
happening to you or loved one is very very high.
As I think medicine gets better, what we're seeing is
increased life spans. People are living longer, health spans not
catching up so much. So we're kind of a lot
of people talk about, oh, we're getting, we're getting, we're
(29:13):
aging for longer. But it's the worst part. It's just
like the long term care part keeps extending extending, and
that's true, and I hope that we get to extend
health span as well. But given that this is what
it's looking like right now, it's super important to make
sure that those last handful of years and maybe it'll be decades,
you know, as we see more innovations are good and
you can do something about just talk about it, build
(29:33):
a plan. You can obviously use waterly, but even just
talking about it and writing some stuff down is so
much more than most people do. I'd love to see
see that happen more.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
That was just tremendous. Thank you so much for being
on today. That was our special gas Evan Ehrenberg and
his company is water Lily. You can go to waterlily
dot com to find out more information, and I thank
you and Lily for moving from what we would consider
(30:07):
a zone of success into deep significance.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Thank you, Rick, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Of course, and folks, we hope that you enjoyed today's
program as you consider what you're going to be doing
in life with your choices and options, which are many.
Consider while you're on that road to success to doing
something significant. Have a great week.
Hey, welcome back to Truly Significant dot com Presents. I'm
Rick Tolkiny. Our very special guest today is Evan aaron Berg,
who is the co founder of water Lily. I could
read his resume and background all day long. This is
how I've cherry picked it. Though. We're getting to talk
(00:31):
to a real live polymath today who plays piano, cooks
board games, knows neurosigns, and ai who happens to have
co founded water Lily, which is a company that I
think has has significance because you actually care about people
(00:51):
aging with dignity and with that, Evan, welcome to our show.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Thank you so much for having me. Rick looking forward
to the conversation today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, sir, so tell us your backstory, especially the part
about you starting college at eleven.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah. I had a really fortunate opportunity when I was younger. Gosh,
I have been such a long time now, I'm kind
of not used to having the conversation so much. But
I when I was going through grade school. I remember
in about third grade or so, I think I was
answering all the questions in class and the teacher said, hey,
(01:31):
you know, it's great Evan, you know knows everything. But
now other kids are just kind of like waiting for
him to answer, So you know, maybe we should skip
him to like fourth grade or fifth grade, And so
I met with the school psychologist. Now, yeah, we go
in fifth or sixth grade. Honestly, I don't think Evan
belongs here, like he could I do high school, and
my parents just thought that was absurd, and eventually deal
(01:55):
a little of homeschooling for like half a year, and
then did actually try high school and that was but
then I kind of went through the grades a bit faster.
And then a neighbor of ours she was taking some
community college classes, and so we decided to try. That
ended up being a really great fit, and the community
college invited me to come full time when I was twelve,
and so I did you know, two years, got my
(02:16):
socials degree when I was fourteen. I then transferred to
u C. Berkeley as a junior, did my two years there,
if my bachelor's degree, did a lot of research in
theoretical neuroscience, and then went to MIT for my PhD
when I was sixteen in confiational neuroscience, which essentially my
research there was you know, what can we learn from
the brain, which has essentially figured out how to do
(02:37):
really smart things and help me apply that to computers.
And so my PhD, a lot of that work was
very similar to sort of the things that we're seeing
in sort of the AI boom today. And then, gosh,
six years into my PhD, I actually dropped out right
before I was meant to defend my thesis, and I
started a company called Clara Health, which was helping helping
(02:59):
page and access clinical trials and helping pharmer companies bring
drugs to market faster so that more people can benefit sooner.
And so that was kind of my first foray into
into startups. I scaled that company over several years and
then sold it, and I started doing some angel investing
in and other like really bright young founders. And that
was actually how I met the original founder and the
(03:20):
CEO of Water, Lilly Lily the Tyrock School. I made
a small angel investment, and then the more and more
I saw the work she was doing, the more curious
I got, the more excited I got, and eventually ended
up joining her as a co founder. So that's kind
of trump very early childhood up through where I'm at today.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Beautiful, your life has been about choices and about being
at the right time and at the right place. Teach
us about how you may make choices today.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
A lot of it is first principles thinking. It's really
funny to look back when I was ten and eleven,
when I was like first taking college courses, I was
thinking through, like how can I make the most significant
impact because I, you know, I knew I was I
was smart, and I wanted to I didn't want to
take that for granted. I wanted to be able to
(04:13):
leave the world with something impactful. And I had initially
gravitated towards like aerostice engineering. I was kind of a
very sort of Elon Musk mindset back, you know, twenty
years ago, of like we got to get off this planet.
It's too risky. We need to you know, spread out,
and so I was doing that. But then as I
sort of learned more about about AI and things, I mind,
I was like, I was like ten, I thought, gosh,
(04:36):
you know, if you really can improve AI and make
something more and more effective, that would improve aerostiss engineering
and all that, but it would also improve medicine and
chemistry on all these other sciences, and it would probably
be the most impacted thing. So that was when I
pivoted kind of like eleven into you know, studying neuroscience
or cognitive science and computer science and artificial intelligence. I
(04:58):
was kind of my focus with my PAGD. The reason
that I then shifted from this was when I started
the company Clara Health. It was initially a side project
essentially with my page. It was really interesting, but we
started to help you know, cancer patients find clinical trials
and just completely changed their their life. And being able
(05:23):
to run a company you have like a lot more
leverage and impact like what you're able to do. And
so even though I felt that you know, researching AI
as a task or as a cause a very very
impactful high leverage that we're seeing it today with all
the advancements, it's it's impacting every single industry, but it
felt that the amount that I could improve that was
(05:46):
kind of risky, where like I might make a very
very significant lead forward and be fantastic, or I may
toil away for decades on research that just from luck
of the draw never actually makes any meaningful progress. Versus
running a company that is very very high impact, I
have a little more control over ensuring that the things
(06:07):
I'm doing, are actually going to make massive impact in
the lives of you know, millions of families. So that
was sort of my pivot into focusing on that in
Claire Health. And then I think similar here with water Lily.
You know, I when I invested in Lily, I just
did it because she was super, super smart. Frankly, I
(06:27):
didn't know anything about long term care industry. But when
I started to see some success and I was like, oh,
this is interesting, what are you doing? And I learned
more about it, it became really obvious that this was
an area that's just completely overlooked. It's everybody's affected by it,
very very seriously. It's a terrible event that happens, like
most families, no one's prepared, and you actually have you know,
(06:50):
worse quality of life, likely shorter lifespans due to how
care is provided and the ability to intervene and help people.
There was similar in that, like, you can pretty much
guarantee you're going to make this extremely important impact to
a family, and then you can scale that, you know,
to millions of billions really even of families across the world.
(07:12):
And so that's sort of been how I've found things
that I feel like are worth working on. It's is
the impact worth it? And is my is my impact
to the thing even, you know, consequential. I'd rather do
something where I'm actually relevant and you sort of need
someone of my skill set to be able to do
something there, and I think I found some spots where
(07:33):
I can be handy.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, that was so well stated. That's a lesson, folks,
about choosing what you want to do at any stage
of your career. And is your impact consequential? What a
what a powerful statement. And so simply put, you and
Lily are two birds of a feather about wanting to
(08:00):
deeply impact humanity. Share a story about someone whose life
has been deeply impacted by water Lily's work, you.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Know, I'll I'll share a personal one first, and then
I'll share maybe a better one. Part of the reason
I decided to join Lily on this journey was I
was curious about how software like what it was and
why it was working so well, and she said, oh,
just go ahead and try it for yourself, be a
end user. And so I put in all of my
(08:33):
medical information and sociomographic information, financial information, and I got
my own predictions of what my future long term care
needsould look like, as well as education of what even
as long term care, why I should care about it?
What you know, it's insurance been covered or not? No,
it's not. Uh, And a couple things shocked me. I
think for me, it was like seven or eight million
dollars of future cost which to explain, you know, I'm
(08:55):
in like a pretty high cost living city, and I'm young,
so I have many decades for healthcare costs to compound
in how much they grow For it to get that large,
my costs wouldn't be sething milliontography and care right now.
But that was a sizable chunk of cash that I
wasn't really thinking about for my retirement. But then also
(09:15):
it was showing me, I think needing long term care
starting in my very late seventies, which was really concerning
for me. I was, you know, planning for you know,
nineties or older. And I kind of looked at my
personal health and the main thing was I was I
was medically overweight. This was before COVID. I was really fit,
had a six pack and everything. And then I lived
(09:37):
with my friends for two years during COVID and I
cooked for them. You mentioned I like cook I like
to use a lot of butter when I cook. I
stopped working out and I must have gained at least
twenty five pounds and I went from being very fit
to to being overweight. And that was the only thing
point to to my medical information of like why my
health would not be be a longer health span. And
(09:58):
so that was a pretty bit wake up call for
me to I hired a personal trainer and I went
on a diet and well, I've lost most of the weight,
not quite back to six pack yet, but I think
I'm on the right path. And I also started changing
some of my financial planning and stuff like max up
my HSA and things like that. And that was for me, like, wow,
(10:20):
it's really really hard with pure software to get somebody
to make behavioral changes like this to their to their health,
their finances. And you did it for me in like
thirty minutes. And I'm pretty stubborn. So that was kind
of why I joined. It's interesting, though, you know, Walterlay
isn't built to make these changes. These are just bonuses.
(10:41):
It's like, oh, by the way, you know, it might
motivate you or do this, And we've actually seen this
in others we have, Like you know, wealth advisors oftentimes
use our software with their clients. We had a story
of a wealth advisor who used it. He shared it
with his wife, he shared it with his father in law.
His father in law lost forty pounds in like six
months after getting his predictions and sort of more experience.
To me, those ones are interesting simply because it's pretty
(11:05):
significant impact to somebody's quality of life to lose that
much weight and be healthy and you know, hopefully to
keep it off. And it's not even the point of
the software. It's not weight loss. It's just a bit
of a wake of call, I think for other people,
Like the main point is we're trying to help you
plan and prepare for this event, and we just hear
left and right all the time. I was really worried
(11:26):
about long term care. I saw my parents go through it.
I have a friend whose parents went through it. I
was really anxious about it. I got the prediction. It
was a big expense, but it was finally clear. It
wasn't this nebulous, confusing what's going to happen? It was
I kind of know what to expect, and I can
now actually plan for it concretely. And have a lot
(11:49):
more confidence with what this event is likely going to
look like. So that's I've been like consistently, every single
person who goes through it, they feel so much better.
In fact, they're prepared, and so we'll see the big,
big impact, you know, ten twenty thirty years from now,
when those people start to need long term care and
they have a plan in place. That's when was I
(12:09):
think the most significant impact. But yeah, that's what I
can see.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
It is.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
For those of you that aren't familiar with water Lily,
go ahead and give out your website so they can
go in and start to fill the ripple effect as
we say it.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, so you can check us out at Waterlily dot com.
And I'll be clear today the platform is really built
for professionals to use it with their clients, but we
are working with consumers as well. So today it's selling
that you know, wealth advisors and estate planners and insurance
agents and other professionals and long term care specialists in
(12:48):
this field use to have a much better planning conversation
with their clients to help them get ready for long
term care. And so it sort of makes this prediction
of what your future needs look like, it helps guide
you through how you want to address those needs. Do
you want to age at home or a care facility?
Compare what the costs look like, what it looks like,
you know practically for you, what we think your family's
(13:11):
involvement is going to look like, and allow you to
proactively adjust that to be realistic and set yourself up
for success. And then once we have all of those,
you know, we may we know what we think is
most likely going to happen to you based on over
half a billion data points and our machine learning all
WORITHM is predicting what we think is for you personally,
your most likely long term care event. And then we've
personalized it further by saying, given this event, how do
(13:33):
you actually want to address those care needs? Then we
have a really good understanding of what your cost is
going to be, adjusting for health care, inflation and everything,
and then we could take a look at how do
you want to cover those costs? They're usually one of
the most significant parts of retirement, and so we can
just you know, evaluate just with math, you know, self
funding versus if you are looking at like an insurance
product or a newity product, we plug it in and
(13:55):
we actually run the math to see does it make sense,
this is a good deal? Should you do it? Should
you self fund? And just try to make that really transparent.
And so we make it really, really really simple. But
because you know, abvious things are regulated like insurance props
and stuff, we have we've been building the platform for
professionals to use it, but more recently we wanted to
learn from the end consumers who were using the platform
(14:17):
and to see how can make this better and easier.
And so a couple of months back, my co founder
Lily she actually went and got her insurance licenses for
health Life and launching care so she can legally use
our own software with the public and help build plans
for them. And the main goal for us with this
is just we want to just understand, like, how are
(14:38):
people using it? How can we make it better whereas
it confusing. We've learned a ton and the cool thing
is if you're a consumer and you want to try
this out, we'll just do it for free because we're
getting learnings out of this of you know, we get
to interact with you. We can see how I use
the software. Normally people would either charge you for this
or they you know, make a ton of commission and
they might have some bias here, and we're just like, no, like,
just let us watch you use it. That's all the
(15:00):
payment we need, and it really just we're happy to
help you and let you get the benefit from it.
So if you are you know a family who wants
to use this platform, our team is happy to guide
you through it and kind of take you onto the
client just for free because we're going to learn f
that interaction. And then if you're a professional who works
in the space, you know the software is built for
you and you can subscribe and start using with your
(15:21):
clients today.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
You guys have big hearts and we're going to continue
talking with Evan here momentarily, but stand by and listen
to this special message from Marcus Arrelius.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
This is Marcus Aurelius reappearing to proclaim that truly significant conversations.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
With big hearted people is a rare piece of literature.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
This book reminds me of one of my more stirring quotes,
waste no more time arguing what a good man should
be be one. If you're stepping into your next life
chapter of your career and questioning what lies beyond success.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
This book is for you.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Dive into forty soul stirring stories from luminaries like doctor
Jane Goodall, Ed Asner, and Emily Chang, stories that urge
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challenge your view of success and.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
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Speaker 4 (16:38):
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Speaker 3 (16:49):
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Speaker 4 (17:02):
Visit truly significant dot com and celebrate the most truly
significant people in your life with the truly Significant community.
How bold of you to make your next chapter matter
and be truly significant.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
And we're back with Evan Ehrenberg, who is the co
founder of water Lily. Of all the things you could
be doing in your lifetime right now, you've chosen this path.
Somebody along the way has shaped your heart to think
of others first. Who are the people that you like
(17:41):
to think right now?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Gosh, my parents and my extended family as well. I
think they did a really fantastic job raising me. You
made me sort of really care about others and all
of that from a young age. But I've also had
a lot of really fantastic mentor growing up just throughout
my academic career. I like all of the people I've
(18:06):
worked with just had been really fantastic folks. To call
it one one, my PhD thesis advisor, Pa donsenh he
honestly he has the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met.
I was drawn to his research because they were kind
of looking at fundamentally, how does the human brain learn
to do vision in complex tasks. There was this wonderful
(18:28):
merge of AI and neuroscience, which I was passionate about.
But he also found this incredible way to forge incredible
humanitarian impact where he created a foundation project Prakash, which
goes into these remote villages in India and finds children
who have dense bilateral conngeneral cataracts. So essentially, they're born
(18:53):
with cataracts that are so so dense they're they're they're blind.
They're legally blind. You know, their eyes are white, And
unfortunately in India, the culture is oftentimes to like shun
these individuals and think that they may be cursed. There's
a lots especially superstitions about it. They go in, they
do the surgery for free, and I'll share like in
the US and more developed countries, if a child is
(19:15):
born with this, it's not an issue because they do
the surgery like shortly after birth and they grow up
with regular fish because you're just sucking out the Cataract's
like a very easy surgery and so it's never an issue.
So he did this, But then you have this really
fascinating research opportunity as well. These children are learning to
see for the first time. Their brain has never had
(19:37):
visual input besides just basic light and dark contrast, and
you can ask them about things like what do you see?
And it's a fantastic research opportunity because when you have
babies who are learning to see for the first time,
you can't really ask the stuff. You're making guesses based
on how long they just kind of look at stuff,
and it's so hard like are they looking at it
because they see something or just there that's where their
(19:58):
head is and their head is heavy, and so it's
so interesting to like one of the coolest things I
think is you have like these overlapping concentric circles. And
to you and me you would say, oh, this is
like two circles that are overlapping, it's two items. But
to these children who have just learned how to see,
they'll say it's three. So it's one. It's this middle
(20:19):
one is two and this one is three. But then
if you start to move them, they will say it's two.
And perhaps to somebody who's not you know, on the
PhD in neuroscience, that that's not that interesting to me.
That is so fastinting. It was incredible breakthrough for the
for the industry. There's a famous French philosopher, Mala Nu
who had to ask, like, if you show somebody who's
(20:41):
blind like a circle in a square, you know, will
they be able to differentiate them having touched them but
never seen them before and so get to answer questions
like that and everything. So but he just has the
biggest heart. Obviously, the research partner is fascinating, but his
you know, the primary thing he hears about is like
saving the children everything. He is just sleep by far,
the nicest, kindest human being I've ever ever met. I'm
(21:03):
talking about him a lot. I obviously look up to
him very very much. He's also sort of helped me
get into startups in the first place. I have him
to think for much of this. I think many people
do for their mentors.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
What a wonderful tribute what a person people can choose
to be significant along their path of success. And we've
always studied epiphanies that people have and the flash of
brilliance that moment when it happens. This is a bit
(21:35):
off course from our script today, but you're such a
rare guest to have on the show to address this.
Is there a way that we can speed up epiphanies
in our lifetime?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I can speak from a practical perspective, you know, knowing
some stuff about neuroscience, getting a really good night sleep
helps with that. You know oftentimes here about about famous
epiphanies that come to people in their dreams. And this
is because, like sleep is a biological function, your brain
is taking this time to go through and kind of
clean up connections. It is when you actually extore your
(22:15):
memories and everything. So you have much better memory retention
if you if you sleep well. And so I think
kind of drawing connections from maybe I would say epiphanies
are oftentimes drawing disparate connections that maybe are not obvious
that suddenly become magical. And I think that sleeping is
going to be like get the full eight hours of sleep.
I know it's become really popular. You know, recently theres
(22:37):
a loss of you know, health tech startups emphasize and
sleep and everything. I took a sleep psychology course at
at at UC Berkeley and was really fortunate to have
with a really famous sleep psychologist, and it was just
drilled into me again, sing it again, how incredibly important
sleep is. And of course that's really hard to do
when you're a co founder of a startup, but it is.
It is, so honestly, it's that simple thing for more epiphanies.
(23:00):
Get more sleep and exercise, and you know all the
obvious stuff it's it's it's sleep, it's exercises, good diet,
but I would say sleep is number one. Follow that
exercise give you more epiphanies, for sure.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
A great advice. I wonder, though, what you say tongue
in cheek about startup founders because sleep is not typically
on their plate.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
No? I today, you know, I got six hours of sleep,
which is it's not awful, but it's not good. I
mean eight, I think it's unfortunately for a lot of people,
eight is like the goal and eight needs to be
the standard, like it's so important. Not enough people talk
about it. It's hard with running a company, and oftentimes
(23:42):
I think when you are a founder, you know, especially
in the early stages, that is the trade off, like
you kind of have to treat yourself almost like a
pawn in the company. And if you are willing and
able to do this tremendous feet of work and it
makes it different to the company. Yeah, you got to
do that, and it's bad for your health. And frankly,
I'm I'll be honest, I'm I'll be not doing as
(24:03):
great in this interview as I would have if I
had eight hours of sleep. And I thought about that
when I went to sleep last night, when I woke
up today, because I was looking forward to having this
conversation with you, Rick. But sometimes that's the tray off
that makes sense. I think as companies get bigger, if
you're a founder or something, you know, you have a
little opportunity to sleep more and make sure you make
fewer decisions. But with you know, higher accuracy or make
(24:25):
better ones. I think, Okay, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, after talking Tolilly and now after talking to you,
it is crystal clear that you two are going to
influence public policy. But in the midst of all the
other things that you're trying to accomplish within your company,
where's where are you going to take the obvious role
(24:51):
that has been put upon you of all the information
that you have could literally sway public policy. What are
you going to do about that?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Great question? I think I'll reference back a little bit
earlier in the conversation. I was talking about how I
think it's really important to do things where you can
make a really big impact. I think one of the
reasons that I look at kind of startups as sort
of for profit companies as being one of the most
impactful things compared to maybe what might seem like more
obvious answers of do a nonprofit or going to politics
(25:23):
and government is I think in nonprofits it can be
challenged easy to make a big impact in a small community.
It's hard to scale that impact two millions or billions
of people. With government. I see not in politics, but
I see a lot of things that seem frustrating to
make change. There's a lot of barriers. When you're running
(25:43):
your own company, you have a lot more freedom with
understanding the dynamics of the market and how things work
and just sort of like getting things to work. And
then if it's for a profit, you can create sort
of a flywheel that allows you to hit a scale
where if you can build a for profit company that
is making positive impact and then just increase the scale
(26:03):
very very big, you can have this impact of billions
of people, and you can probably do it a lot
faster than you could in nonprofits or in government. Now
that said, I do think that public policy is aqually
important part of this of this industry, and everything we're
trying to do is how do you solve the problem.
There's a lot of stuff we can do from like
a product perspective, and what we do as a company.
(26:25):
I think a lot of it is also part of
public policy. And so we're starting to have more and
more conversations with state governments, some federal government conversations just
about what we're seeing, what we you know, how we
want to protect you know, American citizens, and also on
the public stage. I don't know if you cover this
with literally but you know, she's spoken now at two
(26:48):
of the annual World Economic Forum meetings, talking with you know,
foreign government officials and major companies across the across the
world about what this kind of aging crist this impact
is going to look like. And so right now we're
doing our best just sort of share information, share what
we're seeing, and you know, when asked your opinion of
what we think could make things look better for folks.
(27:09):
And I expect as we become hopefully more influential, so
that the things that we're doing that we think can
be helpful is you know, pay attention to more. I
expect that we'll do more and more work in politics,
just trying to be as helpful as possible so that
we can impact you know, all the people that really
need help.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Here.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
What a great spirit you t have. It has been
an honor to honor you and Lily. I've got one
final question for you, and it's if you could give
one piece of advice to the next generation about aging, caring,
and living significantly. What would that be.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I think mostly talk and think about it, but it
doesn't have to be in like a really sad, depressing way.
Treat it like a like a project that's really interesting.
I'll compare it. I was just thinking about because that's
some of your initial thoughts earlier. There's this concept of
like a prepper, somebody who like prepares for of like
(28:09):
doomsday scenario, looking at bunkers and having you know, MRIs
and water and all this stuff, and it's very depressing
to think about the world where you have to use
those things. But there's this whole community that just loves
talking about it. Oh, it's so cool. I'm looking at,
you know, all these things and think about the doomsday
and frankly, the likelihood of a doomsday event seems pretty low.
(28:32):
The likelihood of needing long term care is very high.
And people don't talk about they don't build a plan,
and people are like, oh, I got this bunk in
my backyard. Okay, do you have like railings for your
showers you don't slip and fall and like, you know,
significantly decrease your quality of life. I almost feel like,
if you think prepping is interesting, try to treat long
term care in the exact same way and look at
(28:53):
these things is like really cool and interesting, and have
conversations with your family because the likelihood of this event
happening to you or loved one is very very high.
As I think medicine gets better, what we're seeing is
increased life spans. People are living longer, health spans not
catching up so much. So we're kind of a lot
of people talk about, oh, we're getting, we're getting, we're
(29:13):
aging for longer. But it's the worst part. It's just
like the long term care part keeps extending extending, and
that's true, and I hope that we get to extend
health span as well. But given that this is what
it's looking like right now, it's super important to make
sure that those last handful of years and maybe it'll be decades,
you know, as we see more innovations are good and
you can do something about just talk about it, build
(29:33):
a plan. You can obviously use waterly, but even just
talking about it and writing some stuff down is so
much more than most people do. I'd love to see
see that happen more.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
That was just tremendous. Thank you so much for being
on today. That was our special gas Evan Ehrenberg and
his company is water Lily. You can go to waterlily
dot com to find out more information, and I thank
you and Lily for moving from what we would consider
(30:07):
a zone of success into deep significance.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Thank you, Rick, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Of course, and folks, we hope that you enjoyed today's
program as you consider what you're going to be doing
in life with your choices and options, which are many.
Consider while you're on that road to success to doing
something significant. Have a great week.
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