TrulySignificant.com honors Martha Lawrence, prolific author and biographer of Catching People Doing Things Right- How Ken Blanchard Changed the Way the World Leads.
WINNER OF THE 2025 BEST BOOK AWARD FOR BIOGRAPHY, this candid business biography reveals how bestselling author, speaker, and business consultant Ken Blanchard revolutionized management by leading with love and service.
Ken Blanchard transformed modern leadership theory through unlikely means—by catching people doing things right. Written like a novel with warmth and humor, this authorized biography reveals how a mediocre student who was told he "couldn't write" became a bestselling author and a globally renowned management expert.
Through extensive access to personal papers, letters, and interviews spanning six decades, Martha Lawrence paints an intimate portrait of the man behind The One Minute Manager and dozens of other influential books. From his early days coaching Cub Scouts to building a worldwide training organization, Blanchard demonstrated that nice guys can finish first by focusing on serving rather than being served.
During pivotal moments—his sister’s tragic death, losing his home to wildfire, economic downturns threatening his company—Blanchard’s optimistic leadership philosophy was tested. Yet his unwavering commitment to bringing out the best in others while leading with love created a lasting legacy that continues to influence organizations globally.
More than just a business biography, this book shows an American success story of someone who achieved greatness not through ruthless ambition but by genuinely caring about people and helping them reach their full potential. Blanchard’s story offers an inspiring road map for anyone seeking to lead with both results and relationships in mind.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.
WINNER OF THE 2025 BEST BOOK AWARD FOR BIOGRAPHY, this candid business biography reveals how bestselling author, speaker, and business consultant Ken Blanchard revolutionized management by leading with love and service.
Ken Blanchard transformed modern leadership theory through unlikely means—by catching people doing things right. Written like a novel with warmth and humor, this authorized biography reveals how a mediocre student who was told he "couldn't write" became a bestselling author and a globally renowned management expert.
Through extensive access to personal papers, letters, and interviews spanning six decades, Martha Lawrence paints an intimate portrait of the man behind The One Minute Manager and dozens of other influential books. From his early days coaching Cub Scouts to building a worldwide training organization, Blanchard demonstrated that nice guys can finish first by focusing on serving rather than being served.
During pivotal moments—his sister’s tragic death, losing his home to wildfire, economic downturns threatening his company—Blanchard’s optimistic leadership philosophy was tested. Yet his unwavering commitment to bringing out the best in others while leading with love created a lasting legacy that continues to influence organizations globally.
More than just a business biography, this book shows an American success story of someone who achieved greatness not through ruthless ambition but by genuinely caring about people and helping them reach their full potential. Blanchard’s story offers an inspiring road map for anyone seeking to lead with both results and relationships in mind.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back to truly Significant dot com presents. I'm Rick Tokeeney.
We have a very special guest on. It is Martha
Lawrence and she is the author and the author of
so many books in my opinion, that we're going to
talk about today, but this one in particular is Catch
(00:31):
People Doing Things Right. How Ken Blanchard changed the way
the world leads And Martha is one of those quintessential
authors and individuals that I know of because we actually
featured doctor Blanchard in our book Truly Significant.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You, in my.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Opinion, are you know how to dot the right eyes
and cross the right tea because you have away with
words and you know how to express yourself so well.
And Catching People Doing Things Right is yet another example
of classic Martha Laurne.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So welcome to our show.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I am honored by your words, Rick, and I am
a longtime fan of you and your work, so it's
doubly honorable to hear those words from you. And I've
just been very fortunate to be mentored by great people.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yes, you have one of the greatest.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And before we get into the book Catch People Doing
Things Right, give our listening audience an update on our
dear doctor Ken Blanchard.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
How's he doing, dear doctor Ken Blanchard. As we were
talking before the show, Rick, he is eighty six years young,
so he's not out there speaking and doing a lot
of media. Although he did come to the book launch
party and it was really great because after I did
my presentation and we opened up Q and A, of
(02:02):
course the audience had Ken right there and he was
just brilliant in terms of answering the questions and it
all had to do with making a difference in people's lives,
you know, and being of service. So it was a
really wonderful evening. But he's doing great.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Nice to hear, Nice to hear.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Okay, So we've written a lot of questions for you
today about your book, and most of it is not
surprisingly through the lens of true significance. So here's the person, Martha.
What is the phrase true significance mean to you when
you think about doctor Kim Blancher's life and leadership?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
What does phrase true significance mean to me? When I
really boil it down, Rick, It's leadership is love. You know,
if you are living a life that is grounded in
love and your motivation is grounded in love and making
a difference in the lives of others. That is truly significant.
(03:06):
You know, do you reach the pinnacle of success in
your field? Is that truly significant? Well, by my value
system and what I've learned from my mentors, not so much.
It's like who did you help? Who did you make
a difference in the lives of others? That's what's truly significant.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Amenda that.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It's weird to think about you researching doctor Kim Blanchard
when you are right there with him.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Every week, every day.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
But I want you to share any little surprises that
shifted your perspective as you completed this book.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well, you know, it is kind of weird. And just
so your listeners know, I have been Ken's executive editor
for over two decades, meaning I have, you know, collaborated
with him on countless books, over thirty certainly probably more
close to one hundred in terms of helping other people
with books, and pretty early on I knew that somebody
(04:13):
needed to write this man's biography because he was one
of those human beings who not only had a global
reputation as a leadership guru, but he was someone and
you know, this Rick who lives by those principles. He
is that guy, and I just thought the world needs
more examples of positive leadership role models, people who who
(04:36):
are authentically doing this. And so when I told Ken, hey,
I think someone should write a biography about you, I
never thought it would be me. But he was like,
that's not important. We've got a lot of work to do.
I'm not important, you know. And finally I just I
started gathering all the materials, like back in two thousand
(04:58):
and five, and when COVID hit I just started writing.
I was just like, it's time for someone to do this.
And when I showed him the first draft of the manuscript,
he was like, hey, he's pretty impressive. I'd like to
meet this guy. So I think, I don't know if
(05:19):
I answered your original question, but you know, the surprise
is just how consistently he lives that philosophy. It's not
about me, it's the difference I can make in the
lives of others.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I think We've done six podcasts with him, and the
best ones were when we were asking him to respond
to his own quotes from all the books that she
wrote with him, and it was like the faster I got,
the better the better the conversation became.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Because he's so quick witted.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, I wonder if if if from his great sense
of humor came through as much as you wanted, because
at some point, as an author, you've got to go, hey.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
There's got to be a little equilibrium here.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
But he's a funny person.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
He is a hilarious guy, and it's hard to capture that.
I mean, I could write about it. I could write
about how he captivated audiences with that sense of humor.
I could quote him and quote some of the funny
things he says, you know. I mean when I think
about there are several places in the book this maybe
(06:35):
a little off color for your audience. But you know,
his wife, Margie, she was actually an athlete. She was
a waterskiing expert in her youth, and every summer they'd
go back to Lake Skinny Atlas and she loved the
water sports, and Ken not so much. He's not so
much of a swimmer. And the joke in the family
is he'd wade into the water. Actually I can't say
(07:00):
it on the air. He'd wave into the water and
he'd say, oh my, and then he'd name a body part.
But I mean He's just kind of a funny guy
and does not take himself seriously. You know that old
adage about angels fly because they don't take themselves seriously.
I think Ken's kind of an angel in that way.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Okay, let's talk a little author speak here. After writing
a lot of books, not as many as you, there
isn't an art and a science to how we title
a book. And people often say, when did you come
up with the title.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Of that book?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
And I want to know what was What's the answer
to this one, because obviously catch people doing things right
is a you know that says it. But Martha, were
there are alternative titles that you considered?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well, you know, initially I thought it would be something like,
you know about The One Minute Manager, which was Ken's
probably most famous book that's sold tens of millions of
copies and stayed on the New York Times bestseller list
for three years and kind of redefined how people thought
about management. So, you know, Ken Blanchard and something about
(08:14):
the One Minute Manager and the subtitle. But Ken's Ken
has you know, he's taught some very powerful leadership lessons
over the years, and somebody once asked him if you
could only keep one thing that you've taught over the years.
What would it be? And he said it would be
catch people doing things right. Because we know we're so
(08:36):
good at pointing out what people do wrong, and in fact,
we're kind of wired to do that. That's one of
the ways we survived. And everybody needs acknowledgment. And you know,
his his his one minute Manager is all about the
three secrets are you know, one minute goal setting, one
minute praising, and one minute redirects. And the praising is
(08:59):
the catching people doing things right. And that's what a
lot of leaders leave out. And so that's why it
became the title of the book, catch people doing things Right,
because that's what he wants to be remembered for, catching
people doing things right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, that's right, Well done, Martha, that's great. There's been
over the course of my lifetime several people that I've
considered revolutionary. There's been lots of other important people and
now i'll call them pips previously important people, but Ken
(09:35):
is a revolutionary in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
How did you pull out that.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Characteristic as somebody who just kind of changed the paradigm
inside the book?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well, how I pulled it out is he's been that
way his whole life. And it was striking to me
how early he began his leadership journey. I mean even
as a ki, he had this charisma and other kids
wanted to follow him, and he learned some of those
lessons so early. His father retired as a rear admiral
(10:09):
in the Navy and taught him some of those early
leadership lessons. Like, you know, he was elected the president
of his seventh grade class, and he was real proud
of himself and he ran home, mom, dad, I'm the president.
I'm the president of my class. And his dad pulled
him aside and said, son, that's great. I'm really proud
of you. Now let me teach you a lesson about leadership.
Now that you have that fancy title president, don't ever
(10:33):
use it. People follow leaders because they trust them and
respect them, not because they have a fancy title. So,
you know, so kind of you could see. And so
right away he started learning that leadership wasn't about him.
It was about who he could influence and how he
could lift people up. And in college, you know, he
was a college professor before he was a leadership guru
(10:57):
and author and you know, well known business consultant, and
he would pass out the final exam to his students
on the first day of class. And the other faculty
found out about that, and they said, what the heck
are you doing, Blanchard. You can't do that. You know,
that's cheating. And he said, not only am I going
to pass out the exam on the first day of class,
(11:18):
what do you think I'm going to do all semester?
I'm going to teach everybody the answers because life is
about getting a's, it's not about rank ordering people according
to some stupid distribution curve. So that was revolutionary. That was,
you know, and all the way along. And so by
the time the One Minute Manager came out, everybody else
(11:38):
is writing these heavy, boring business tomes, nonfiction books about
business and organizational management. And Ken and his co author
Spencer Johnson write this little, one hundred page terrible it's
not even a nonfiction book. It's a story about a
young man who's looking for an effective manager, and it's
(12:00):
written in a style that a sixth grader could understand.
And his colleagues, you know, he pulled his most brilliant
doctoral students together to start his company, and some of
those brilliant doctors of organizational management said to him, you
cannot publish this book. It's embarrassing. My god, it sounds
(12:22):
like a children's story. That's his rebellious sidet. He said,
I want to reach people. My goal is to teach people.
My goal is to write a book that people will read.
I'm not trying to look smart, I'm not trying to
look important. I'm trying to get people to change the
way they relate to other people in the workplace. I
want to lift people up. So you know it's been
(12:44):
there all along.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It sure has.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And the part about that lovely story about the rear
admiral dad pulling him aside. Maybe those that are fatherless
out there can read your book and they can glean
some fatherly lessons from those kinds of examples and supplement
(13:09):
their lives with all the great lessons that are still
to be taught by doctor can Blanchard.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I love that you said that, Rick, And you know,
Ken is aware that he was very fortunate to have
such amazing parents. They were his first leadership role models,
and not everybody gets a great parent like that. There
are other lessons in the book that his dad taught him,
and you know, so you kind of find your own
parental figure and you can find them in books too,
(13:36):
write Rick. I mean, that's right exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It's a nice point for us to take a quick
commercial break, and I'll throw it to you first. Where
can we go to start buying all the books that
you've written and everything else is associated with doctor Kim Blanchard.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Well, let's start with doctor can and Blanchard. You know,
as I mentioned, he's the author or co author of
seventy books and they cover about every topic you could want.
So there's a website called Ken blanchardbooks dot com that
has all of his books up there and you can
read more about him and his work and his books.
(14:22):
The only book I'm promoting right now on Martha Lawrence
dot com is Catch People Doing Things Right. I published
a series of novels. I used to be before I
started working with Ken, I was a mystery novelist, but
you know that's not really my focus right now. So
Martha Laurence dot com is where you can find out
about this book.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
That's excellent. We'll be right back with Martha after this
quick message.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
This is Marcus Aurelius reappearing to proclaim that truly significant
Conversations with big hearted people is a rare piece of literature.
This book reminds me of one of my more stirring quotes,
waste no more time arguing what a good man should
be be one. If you're stepping into your next life
(15:15):
chapter of your career and questioning what lies beyond success,
this book is for you.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
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Jane Goodall, ed Asner, and Emily Chang, stories that urge
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Speaker 4 (15:41):
Authored by Rick Tolkini, Truly Significant will challenge your view
of success and ignite a life of impact. Order now
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Speaker 6 (15:55):
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Speaker 4 (16:00):
Maybe your epitaph.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Will read she gave outrageously extended grace unceasingly and lived
to help others.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
So that death found her at d.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
Visit truly significant dot com and celebrate the most truly
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How bold of you to make your next chapter matter
and be truly significant.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And we are back with Martha Lawrence, the biographer of
doctor Kim Blanchard. What do you believe is doctor Kim
Blancher's true legacy one hundred years from now?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Hmmm, one hundred years from now. I think his true
legacy will be that he will be known as one
of the primary leadership experts who advocated servant leadership, the
concept that if you're leader, if you are a leader,
your job is to serve, not to be served. It's
(17:06):
so counterintuitive, right, but that really that he really popularized.
Of course, servant leadership was a term coined by Robert Greenleaf,
but Ken Blanchard, I believe is the one who really
made it something that organizations started implementing in their organizations
(17:26):
and seeing how it actually does drive the bottom line.
You know, can Ken when he talks about servant leadership,
he says, people don't understand. They think it's an oxymoron
because how can you be a servant and a leader
at the same time. And he says, there are two
parts of leadership. There's the vision and direction part of
(17:50):
the lead leadership. That's the lead part, and then the
servant part is the implementation part. And once you have
set the vision and direction as the leader. Now you
turn that hierarchical pyramid upside down and you're at the
bottom of the pyramid, serving the people who are implementing
that vision. You're there to say, how can I help,
(18:10):
how can I what do you need from me to
make your job easier to implement this vision? And that's
that's what servant leadership is all about.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Oh yes, I have a feeling that when Ken goes
to heaven someday and he gets the well done, my
good and faithful servant, that God or Jesus is going
to say, And in particular, I like the way you
(18:41):
describe servant leadership because that really so many millions of
so called Christians out there never really got it.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Well. You know's Ken's faith journey is in the book.
It's a chapter in the book Finding Faith, And you know,
he what he came to. He came to his philosophy
through his education and basically learned from doctor Robert Schuller
(19:15):
that Jesus was, to Ken, the greatest leadership role model
of all time. But because he took these twelve untrained,
completely inept fishermen and he turned them into an organization
that was able to to you know, impact the world
in a great way. And you know, I don't want
(19:38):
to wade into the whole concept of Christianity and where
the church is today. It's a very big, big, big topic.
But just to say that that that really is Ken's
philosophy is grounded in those principles of serving others. You know,
if you want to be great, serve others.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
And that's right.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I think about Ken cross over because I'm very attached
to him. I know I'm supposed to have as a biographer,
I'm supposed to have an arms length distance from my subject.
But as I say in the introduction of the book,
I've done my best to be objective, but i cannot
disguise my admiration for my subject. You know, it's impossible
(20:18):
to know Ken and not love him. You know, that
was the hardest part of writing the book, was writing
the downside. You know. My publisher said, Okay, nobody's this nice.
Give me the dirt, you know, and I had to
get together with Ken's wife. I'm like, Margie, you've got
to help me dig up some dirt on Ken. We
got we got to show the whole person here. And
(20:41):
she's like, well, you know, he does have this tendency
to give away too much money, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Good at a nice trait to have. Before the show,
I told you I wanted to share a few thoughts
about Ken and take a bit of a bird walk.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And here it is.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
So Ken knows that I'm a parent of two lovely daughters,
both in the entertainment industry, and now I'm the grandparent
of two. And there is a whole host of information
and so called wisdom coming through AI about how people
(21:25):
should raise their children today. Yike, yikes, And I tend
to migrate toward the people. A couple of oracles in
my life that taught me principles. One is doctor Keim Blanchard.
Another one is doctor Stephen Covey, who we paid an
(21:49):
immense amount of money to have us personally trained at
Columbo Yogurt by the steely eyed guy who you know
went look at you and the igo, Oh that's not
a clear enough mission and visions date. Yeah, okay, So
I still hold those two guys out. And I taught
my two daughters the seven habits of effective people and leadership.
(22:14):
I also talked talked in the tenets of doctor Kim Blancher,
and today this information coming through AI to some extent
is arguing against catching children doing things right. And I
sit there and I just I bristle at it. And
(22:34):
I know that that's a bit vague of an observation
to give you, but I'd love for you to opine
on why there's information that's coming out that actually is
opposing everything that my friend doctor Kim Blancher taught me.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Well, the first thing I would say, Rick, that's a
little alarming. You know, AI, it's just a mashie. It
gives you what you give it. You can direct it
to give me parenting advice based on the tenets of
Ken Blanchard, and it'll change its mind and dump out that.
(23:10):
You know. It just depends on what you feed it.
And I was listening to another podcast recently and the
podcast host made the comment the future of leadership isn't
more automation, it's more humanity. And we just need to
remember that there are human beings programming these machines. And
(23:32):
so in terms of catching people doing things wrong, it's
not that you do this toxic positivity of And I'm
not a parenting expert. Let me just say that I
am a mother of a son, but I'm in no
way a parenting expert, but the idea of toxic positivity
(23:52):
is that you do nothing but praise, praise, praise, and
then you raise these children that are just ill equipped
to be in the world old and get that negative feedback.
Ken's teaching is that you set goals with and this
applies to children as well as you know the people
you're leading. You set those goals, and you know after
you coach, you want to watch for when they're doing
(24:18):
behavior that aligns with with doing completing those goes well,
goals well, and then you and then you praise. If
there's behavior that isn't aligning with those goals, then you redirect.
It's not criticized, it's not punish it's not that you redirect.
You go, here's the goal, here's your behavior. Here's how
(24:40):
the behavior isn't consistent with meeting that goal. Now, let's
I know, I know you have it in you to
do it the right way. Let's redirect. There's actually a
funny I appeared with Ken's son, Scott Blanchard, who is
now the CEO of Blanchard UH, the big training organization,
which you can find out about on Blanchard dot com
(25:01):
But we appeared on a TV show together and somebody
asked Scott what was it like growing up with Ken
Blanchard And he said, oh, my god. You know, I
was a red blooded American kid and I was always
getting into trouble and I'd come home and instead of
getting screamed at, you know, they would sit me down
and say, Scott, this is how your behavior is not
(25:23):
aligning with the goals we set forth at the family
retreat we had last spring, you know. And you know,
but the point is, you don't scream at the kids,
you don't belittle them, you just guide them.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
There you go. That is a great rebuttal. Thank you
very much. That ends that.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Tell your tell your daughters too to the ask the AI,
feed the AI more positive messages and asked, asked, ask
them to uh ask AI to give you positive parenting.
You know. Yeah, I think Ken did do a book
called well Done The Power of Positive Relationships and well
(26:09):
Done The Power of Positive Parenting.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So yes he did.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, we need to buy that book again. Yeah and
reread it. Okay, final questions for you. This is sort
of our rapid fire significant questions, which, by the way,
Ken always loves the rapid fire portion.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
As I mentioned.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Earlier, well I am not. I am not as sharp, witty,
funny or fast thinking as Ken. So you know, adjust
your expectations accordingly.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
No problem, here we go. A life well led looks like.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
A life well led looks like a life that people
are happy is here on earth.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
The world needs more leaders who serve others. The most
underrated Ken Blanchard leadership.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Trait is m.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Humor.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Significance without success is.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Still success. Significance is success.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I think you have been utterly transformed by doctor Ken Blanchard.
And it took an enormous talented author to write his story.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
That that's a that's got to be one of the
toughest task ever to write it as an objective writer journalist.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
And I would say this one final question, what would
you want every single young leader listening today to understand
about the true greatness from Kim Blancher's life that they
can walk away from this show going This is my
big takeaway.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
The big takeaway is that leadership is love and anytime
anytime you are looking to influence the behavior of someone else,
you don't have to have a title to be a leader.
Anytime you are looking to influence the behavior of someone else,
you are engaging in leadership. And the big takeaway is
(28:46):
if that leadership is grounded, if your motivation is love
and positive, you are a leader that others want to follow.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Well said, I highly recommend this book for graduation, gibs, birthdays,
even anniversaries. If your organization is nonprofit, make sure that
everyone reads it, all your team players. I also recommend
that it goes to board of directors because I think
(29:20):
it's a great book if everybody on a board had
a common thread and it was called catch People Doing
Things Right. Martha, congratulations, I look forward to talking with
you again.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Just know this.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I think you have been very blessed with the skill
of writing, and you are so accomplished, and I'm so
honored that we could celebrate you too today.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Rick, again, I am so honored by your comments. And
you have to know that I had imposter syndrome writing
this because I'm not a biographer. But I did get
a little encouragement that it won the Best Book Award
twenty twenty five Best Book Award in the Biography category
from American Book Fest recently. So somehow, you know, I
(30:10):
managed to do it, but it's you know it. It
was a labor of love. And I think the story
is going to be inspiring to anyone. It makes it
sound the way we've talked. It makes it sound like
Ken just was blessed throughout his life, but he had
a lot of setbacks and hardships and you know, failures.
(30:34):
And I think it's a good story for anyone who
is facing business setbacks or setbacks in their life of
any kind. And to just he Ken is a great
role model for how to keep your head up looking
for opportunities and to move past it and to and
that nice guys can finish first.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That's right, That is exactly right. Well, thanks again, we
appreciate you, and folks, as we close every show, we
want you to continue to focus on your so called
journey of success, but turn your face, turn your eyes
toward the avenue of significance, and use books like Catch
(31:18):
People Doing Things Right as a compass for yourself.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Ever week
Welcome back to truly Significant dot com presents. I'm Rick Tokeeney.
We have a very special guest on. It is Martha
Lawrence and she is the author and the author of
so many books in my opinion, that we're going to
talk about today, but this one in particular is Catch
(00:31):
People Doing Things Right. How Ken Blanchard changed the way
the world leads And Martha is one of those quintessential
authors and individuals that I know of because we actually
featured doctor Blanchard in our book Truly Significant.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You, in my.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Opinion, are you know how to dot the right eyes
and cross the right tea because you have away with
words and you know how to express yourself so well.
And Catching People Doing Things Right is yet another example
of classic Martha Laurne.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So welcome to our show.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I am honored by your words, Rick, and I am
a longtime fan of you and your work, so it's
doubly honorable to hear those words from you. And I've
just been very fortunate to be mentored by great people.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yes, you have one of the greatest.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
And before we get into the book Catch People Doing
Things Right, give our listening audience an update on our
dear doctor Ken Blanchard.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
How's he doing, dear doctor Ken Blanchard. As we were
talking before the show, Rick, he is eighty six years young,
so he's not out there speaking and doing a lot
of media. Although he did come to the book launch
party and it was really great because after I did
my presentation and we opened up Q and A, of
(02:02):
course the audience had Ken right there and he was
just brilliant in terms of answering the questions and it
all had to do with making a difference in people's lives,
you know, and being of service. So it was a
really wonderful evening. But he's doing great.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Nice to hear, Nice to hear.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Okay, So we've written a lot of questions for you
today about your book, and most of it is not
surprisingly through the lens of true significance. So here's the person, Martha.
What is the phrase true significance mean to you when
you think about doctor Kim Blancher's life and leadership?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
What does phrase true significance mean to me? When I
really boil it down, Rick, It's leadership is love. You know,
if you are living a life that is grounded in
love and your motivation is grounded in love and making
a difference in the lives of others. That is truly significant.
(03:06):
You know, do you reach the pinnacle of success in
your field? Is that truly significant? Well, by my value
system and what I've learned from my mentors, not so much.
It's like who did you help? Who did you make
a difference in the lives of others? That's what's truly significant.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Amenda that.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It's weird to think about you researching doctor Kim Blanchard
when you are right there with him.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Every week, every day.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
But I want you to share any little surprises that
shifted your perspective as you completed this book.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well, you know, it is kind of weird. And just
so your listeners know, I have been Ken's executive editor
for over two decades, meaning I have, you know, collaborated
with him on countless books, over thirty certainly probably more
close to one hundred in terms of helping other people
with books, and pretty early on I knew that somebody
(04:13):
needed to write this man's biography because he was one
of those human beings who not only had a global
reputation as a leadership guru, but he was someone and
you know, this Rick who lives by those principles. He
is that guy, and I just thought the world needs
more examples of positive leadership role models, people who who
(04:36):
are authentically doing this. And so when I told Ken, hey,
I think someone should write a biography about you, I
never thought it would be me. But he was like,
that's not important. We've got a lot of work to do.
I'm not important, you know. And finally I just I
started gathering all the materials, like back in two thousand
(04:58):
and five, and when COVID hit I just started writing.
I was just like, it's time for someone to do this.
And when I showed him the first draft of the manuscript,
he was like, hey, he's pretty impressive. I'd like to
meet this guy. So I think, I don't know if
(05:19):
I answered your original question, but you know, the surprise
is just how consistently he lives that philosophy. It's not
about me, it's the difference I can make in the
lives of others.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I think We've done six podcasts with him, and the
best ones were when we were asking him to respond
to his own quotes from all the books that she
wrote with him, and it was like the faster I got,
the better the better the conversation became.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Because he's so quick witted.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, I wonder if if if from his great sense
of humor came through as much as you wanted, because
at some point, as an author, you've got to go, hey.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
There's got to be a little equilibrium here.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
But he's a funny person.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
He is a hilarious guy, and it's hard to capture that.
I mean, I could write about it. I could write
about how he captivated audiences with that sense of humor.
I could quote him and quote some of the funny
things he says, you know. I mean when I think
about there are several places in the book this maybe
(06:35):
a little off color for your audience. But you know,
his wife, Margie, she was actually an athlete. She was
a waterskiing expert in her youth, and every summer they'd
go back to Lake Skinny Atlas and she loved the
water sports, and Ken not so much. He's not so
much of a swimmer. And the joke in the family
is he'd wade into the water. Actually I can't say
(07:00):
it on the air. He'd wave into the water and
he'd say, oh my, and then he'd name a body part.
But I mean He's just kind of a funny guy
and does not take himself seriously. You know that old
adage about angels fly because they don't take themselves seriously.
I think Ken's kind of an angel in that way.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Okay, let's talk a little author speak here. After writing
a lot of books, not as many as you, there
isn't an art and a science to how we title
a book. And people often say, when did you come
up with the title.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Of that book?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
And I want to know what was What's the answer
to this one, because obviously catch people doing things right
is a you know that says it. But Martha, were
there are alternative titles that you considered?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well, you know, initially I thought it would be something like,
you know about The One Minute Manager, which was Ken's
probably most famous book that's sold tens of millions of
copies and stayed on the New York Times bestseller list
for three years and kind of redefined how people thought
about management. So, you know, Ken Blanchard and something about
(08:14):
the One Minute Manager and the subtitle. But Ken's Ken
has you know, he's taught some very powerful leadership lessons
over the years, and somebody once asked him if you
could only keep one thing that you've taught over the years.
What would it be? And he said it would be
catch people doing things right. Because we know we're so
(08:36):
good at pointing out what people do wrong, and in fact,
we're kind of wired to do that. That's one of
the ways we survived. And everybody needs acknowledgment. And you know,
his his his one minute Manager is all about the
three secrets are you know, one minute goal setting, one
minute praising, and one minute redirects. And the praising is
(08:59):
the catching people doing things right. And that's what a
lot of leaders leave out. And so that's why it
became the title of the book, catch people doing things Right,
because that's what he wants to be remembered for, catching
people doing things right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, that's right, Well done, Martha, that's great. There's been
over the course of my lifetime several people that I've
considered revolutionary. There's been lots of other important people and
now i'll call them pips previously important people, but Ken
(09:35):
is a revolutionary in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
How did you pull out that.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Characteristic as somebody who just kind of changed the paradigm
inside the book?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well, how I pulled it out is he's been that
way his whole life. And it was striking to me
how early he began his leadership journey. I mean even
as a ki, he had this charisma and other kids
wanted to follow him, and he learned some of those
lessons so early. His father retired as a rear admiral
(10:09):
in the Navy and taught him some of those early
leadership lessons. Like, you know, he was elected the president
of his seventh grade class, and he was real proud
of himself and he ran home, mom, dad, I'm the president.
I'm the president of my class. And his dad pulled
him aside and said, son, that's great. I'm really proud
of you. Now let me teach you a lesson about leadership.
Now that you have that fancy title president, don't ever
(10:33):
use it. People follow leaders because they trust them and
respect them, not because they have a fancy title. So,
you know, so kind of you could see. And so
right away he started learning that leadership wasn't about him.
It was about who he could influence and how he
could lift people up. And in college, you know, he
was a college professor before he was a leadership guru
(10:57):
and author and you know, well known business consultant, and
he would pass out the final exam to his students
on the first day of class. And the other faculty
found out about that, and they said, what the heck
are you doing, Blanchard. You can't do that. You know,
that's cheating. And he said, not only am I going
to pass out the exam on the first day of class,
(11:18):
what do you think I'm going to do all semester?
I'm going to teach everybody the answers because life is
about getting a's, it's not about rank ordering people according
to some stupid distribution curve. So that was revolutionary. That was,
you know, and all the way along. And so by
the time the One Minute Manager came out, everybody else
(11:38):
is writing these heavy, boring business tomes, nonfiction books about
business and organizational management. And Ken and his co author
Spencer Johnson write this little, one hundred page terrible it's
not even a nonfiction book. It's a story about a
young man who's looking for an effective manager, and it's
(12:00):
written in a style that a sixth grader could understand.
And his colleagues, you know, he pulled his most brilliant
doctoral students together to start his company, and some of
those brilliant doctors of organizational management said to him, you
cannot publish this book. It's embarrassing. My god, it sounds
(12:22):
like a children's story. That's his rebellious sidet. He said,
I want to reach people. My goal is to teach people.
My goal is to write a book that people will read.
I'm not trying to look smart, I'm not trying to
look important. I'm trying to get people to change the
way they relate to other people in the workplace. I
want to lift people up. So you know it's been
(12:44):
there all along.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
It sure has.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And the part about that lovely story about the rear
admiral dad pulling him aside. Maybe those that are fatherless
out there can read your book and they can glean
some fatherly lessons from those kinds of examples and supplement
(13:09):
their lives with all the great lessons that are still
to be taught by doctor can Blanchard.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I love that you said that, Rick, And you know,
Ken is aware that he was very fortunate to have
such amazing parents. They were his first leadership role models,
and not everybody gets a great parent like that. There
are other lessons in the book that his dad taught him,
and you know, so you kind of find your own
parental figure and you can find them in books too,
(13:36):
write Rick. I mean, that's right exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It's a nice point for us to take a quick
commercial break, and I'll throw it to you first. Where
can we go to start buying all the books that
you've written and everything else is associated with doctor Kim Blanchard.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Well, let's start with doctor can and Blanchard. You know,
as I mentioned, he's the author or co author of
seventy books and they cover about every topic you could want.
So there's a website called Ken blanchardbooks dot com that
has all of his books up there and you can
read more about him and his work and his books.
(14:22):
The only book I'm promoting right now on Martha Lawrence
dot com is Catch People Doing Things Right. I published
a series of novels. I used to be before I
started working with Ken, I was a mystery novelist, but
you know that's not really my focus right now. So
Martha Laurence dot com is where you can find out
about this book.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
That's excellent. We'll be right back with Martha after this
quick message.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
This is Marcus Aurelius reappearing to proclaim that truly significant
Conversations with big hearted people is a rare piece of literature.
This book reminds me of one of my more stirring quotes,
waste no more time arguing what a good man should
be be one. If you're stepping into your next life
(15:15):
chapter of your career and questioning what lies beyond success,
this book is for you.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Dive into forty soul stirring stories from luminaries like doctor
Jane Goodall, ed Asner, and Emily Chang, stories that urge
you to pursue purpose, serve others, and build a legacy
that outlasts you.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Authored by Rick Tolkini, Truly Significant will challenge your view
of success and ignite a life of impact. Order now
at TinyURL dot com, backslash truly.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Significant and begin living intentionally.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Maybe your epitaph.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Will read she gave outrageously extended grace unceasingly and lived
to help others.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
So that death found her at d.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
Visit truly significant dot com and celebrate the most truly
significant people in your life with the truly Significant community.
How bold of you to make your next chapter matter
and be truly significant.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And we are back with Martha Lawrence, the biographer of
doctor Kim Blanchard. What do you believe is doctor Kim
Blancher's true legacy one hundred years from now?
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Hmmm, one hundred years from now. I think his true
legacy will be that he will be known as one
of the primary leadership experts who advocated servant leadership, the
concept that if you're leader, if you are a leader,
your job is to serve, not to be served. It's
(17:06):
so counterintuitive, right, but that really that he really popularized.
Of course, servant leadership was a term coined by Robert Greenleaf,
but Ken Blanchard, I believe is the one who really
made it something that organizations started implementing in their organizations
(17:26):
and seeing how it actually does drive the bottom line.
You know, can Ken when he talks about servant leadership,
he says, people don't understand. They think it's an oxymoron
because how can you be a servant and a leader
at the same time. And he says, there are two
parts of leadership. There's the vision and direction part of
(17:50):
the lead leadership. That's the lead part, and then the
servant part is the implementation part. And once you have
set the vision and direction as the leader. Now you
turn that hierarchical pyramid upside down and you're at the
bottom of the pyramid, serving the people who are implementing
that vision. You're there to say, how can I help,
(18:10):
how can I what do you need from me to
make your job easier to implement this vision? And that's
that's what servant leadership is all about.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Oh yes, I have a feeling that when Ken goes
to heaven someday and he gets the well done, my
good and faithful servant, that God or Jesus is going
to say, And in particular, I like the way you
(18:41):
describe servant leadership because that really so many millions of
so called Christians out there never really got it.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Well. You know's Ken's faith journey is in the book.
It's a chapter in the book Finding Faith, And you know,
he what he came to. He came to his philosophy
through his education and basically learned from doctor Robert Schuller
(19:15):
that Jesus was, to Ken, the greatest leadership role model
of all time. But because he took these twelve untrained,
completely inept fishermen and he turned them into an organization
that was able to to you know, impact the world
in a great way. And you know, I don't want
(19:38):
to wade into the whole concept of Christianity and where
the church is today. It's a very big, big, big topic.
But just to say that that that really is Ken's
philosophy is grounded in those principles of serving others. You know,
if you want to be great, serve others.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
And that's right.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
I think about Ken cross over because I'm very attached
to him. I know I'm supposed to have as a biographer,
I'm supposed to have an arms length distance from my subject.
But as I say in the introduction of the book,
I've done my best to be objective, but i cannot
disguise my admiration for my subject. You know, it's impossible
(20:18):
to know Ken and not love him. You know, that
was the hardest part of writing the book, was writing
the downside. You know. My publisher said, Okay, nobody's this nice.
Give me the dirt, you know, and I had to
get together with Ken's wife. I'm like, Margie, you've got
to help me dig up some dirt on Ken. We
got we got to show the whole person here. And
(20:41):
she's like, well, you know, he does have this tendency
to give away too much money, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Good at a nice trait to have. Before the show,
I told you I wanted to share a few thoughts
about Ken and take a bit of a bird walk.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And here it is.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
So Ken knows that I'm a parent of two lovely daughters,
both in the entertainment industry, and now I'm the grandparent
of two. And there is a whole host of information
and so called wisdom coming through AI about how people
(21:25):
should raise their children today. Yike, yikes, And I tend
to migrate toward the people. A couple of oracles in
my life that taught me principles. One is doctor Keim Blanchard.
Another one is doctor Stephen Covey, who we paid an
(21:49):
immense amount of money to have us personally trained at
Columbo Yogurt by the steely eyed guy who you know
went look at you and the igo, Oh that's not
a clear enough mission and visions date. Yeah, okay, So
I still hold those two guys out. And I taught
my two daughters the seven habits of effective people and leadership.
(22:14):
I also talked talked in the tenets of doctor Kim Blancher,
and today this information coming through AI to some extent
is arguing against catching children doing things right. And I
sit there and I just I bristle at it. And
(22:34):
I know that that's a bit vague of an observation
to give you, but I'd love for you to opine
on why there's information that's coming out that actually is
opposing everything that my friend doctor Kim Blancher taught me.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Well, the first thing I would say, Rick, that's a
little alarming. You know, AI, it's just a mashie. It
gives you what you give it. You can direct it
to give me parenting advice based on the tenets of
Ken Blanchard, and it'll change its mind and dump out that.
(23:10):
You know. It just depends on what you feed it.
And I was listening to another podcast recently and the
podcast host made the comment the future of leadership isn't
more automation, it's more humanity. And we just need to
remember that there are human beings programming these machines. And
(23:32):
so in terms of catching people doing things wrong, it's
not that you do this toxic positivity of And I'm
not a parenting expert. Let me just say that I
am a mother of a son, but I'm in no
way a parenting expert, but the idea of toxic positivity
(23:52):
is that you do nothing but praise, praise, praise, and
then you raise these children that are just ill equipped
to be in the world old and get that negative feedback.
Ken's teaching is that you set goals with and this
applies to children as well as you know the people
you're leading. You set those goals, and you know after
you coach, you want to watch for when they're doing
(24:18):
behavior that aligns with with doing completing those goes well,
goals well, and then you and then you praise. If
there's behavior that isn't aligning with those goals, then you redirect.
It's not criticized, it's not punish it's not that you redirect.
You go, here's the goal, here's your behavior. Here's how
(24:40):
the behavior isn't consistent with meeting that goal. Now, let's
I know, I know you have it in you to
do it the right way. Let's redirect. There's actually a
funny I appeared with Ken's son, Scott Blanchard, who is
now the CEO of Blanchard UH, the big training organization,
which you can find out about on Blanchard dot com
(25:01):
But we appeared on a TV show together and somebody
asked Scott what was it like growing up with Ken
Blanchard And he said, oh, my god. You know, I
was a red blooded American kid and I was always
getting into trouble and I'd come home and instead of
getting screamed at, you know, they would sit me down
and say, Scott, this is how your behavior is not
(25:23):
aligning with the goals we set forth at the family
retreat we had last spring, you know. And you know,
but the point is, you don't scream at the kids,
you don't belittle them, you just guide them.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
There you go. That is a great rebuttal. Thank you
very much. That ends that.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Tell your tell your daughters too to the ask the AI,
feed the AI more positive messages and asked, asked, ask
them to uh ask AI to give you positive parenting.
You know. Yeah, I think Ken did do a book
called well Done The Power of Positive Relationships and well
(26:09):
Done The Power of Positive Parenting.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So yes he did.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, we need to buy that book again. Yeah and
reread it. Okay, final questions for you. This is sort
of our rapid fire significant questions, which, by the way,
Ken always loves the rapid fire portion.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
As I mentioned.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Earlier, well I am not. I am not as sharp, witty,
funny or fast thinking as Ken. So you know, adjust
your expectations accordingly.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
No problem, here we go. A life well led looks like.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
A life well led looks like a life that people
are happy is here on earth.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
The world needs more leaders who serve others. The most
underrated Ken Blanchard leadership.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Trait is m.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Humor.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Significance without success is.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Still success. Significance is success.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I think you have been utterly transformed by doctor Ken Blanchard.
And it took an enormous talented author to write his story.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
That that's a that's got to be one of the
toughest task ever to write it as an objective writer journalist.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So kudos to you.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
And I would say this one final question, what would
you want every single young leader listening today to understand
about the true greatness from Kim Blancher's life that they
can walk away from this show going This is my
big takeaway.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
The big takeaway is that leadership is love and anytime
anytime you are looking to influence the behavior of someone else,
you don't have to have a title to be a leader.
Anytime you are looking to influence the behavior of someone else,
you are engaging in leadership. And the big takeaway is
(28:46):
if that leadership is grounded, if your motivation is love
and positive, you are a leader that others want to follow.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Well said, I highly recommend this book for graduation, gibs, birthdays,
even anniversaries. If your organization is nonprofit, make sure that
everyone reads it, all your team players. I also recommend
that it goes to board of directors because I think
(29:20):
it's a great book if everybody on a board had
a common thread and it was called catch People Doing
Things Right. Martha, congratulations, I look forward to talking with
you again.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Just know this.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I think you have been very blessed with the skill
of writing, and you are so accomplished, and I'm so
honored that we could celebrate you too today.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Rick, again, I am so honored by your comments. And
you have to know that I had imposter syndrome writing
this because I'm not a biographer. But I did get
a little encouragement that it won the Best Book Award
twenty twenty five Best Book Award in the Biography category
from American Book Fest recently. So somehow, you know, I
(30:10):
managed to do it, but it's you know it. It
was a labor of love. And I think the story
is going to be inspiring to anyone. It makes it
sound the way we've talked. It makes it sound like
Ken just was blessed throughout his life, but he had
a lot of setbacks and hardships and you know, failures.
(30:34):
And I think it's a good story for anyone who
is facing business setbacks or setbacks in their life of
any kind. And to just he Ken is a great
role model for how to keep your head up looking
for opportunities and to move past it and to and
that nice guys can finish first.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That's right, That is exactly right. Well, thanks again, we
appreciate you, and folks, as we close every show, we
want you to continue to focus on your so called
journey of success, but turn your face, turn your eyes
toward the avenue of significance, and use books like Catch
(31:18):
People Doing Things Right as a compass for yourself.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Ever week
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