August 13, 2025 • 45 mins
TrulySignificant.com presents Brandon Coleman, author of BRAND ON, riffing on 50 years of branding, entrepreneurialism, the pros and cons of AI, creativity,and courage. Brandon honors Professor Herb Thompson, one of our favorite teachers at Texas A&M.
For those P&G alums, you will like hearing about the interview process that kept your company legendary.
Enjoy this insightful conversation and buy the book BRAND ON through Amazon.com.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.
For those P&G alums, you will like hearing about the interview process that kept your company legendary.
Enjoy this insightful conversation and buy the book BRAND ON through Amazon.com.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm Rick Tolkeinny and we hope that you all are
having a great day out there. We have a very
special guest on who I have not talked to in years.
It's Brandon Coleman. We were both in the class of
seventy eight in Texas A and M. We were in
marketing class together, then we served on a board together
(00:31):
in later years. He is an entrepreneur, former ad agency,
owner to my recollection, great leader, and now an author
of a book called brand On. Brandon, welcome to our show.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Thank you, Rick, if you're appreciated, and great memories together
in the classrooms.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Absolutely, and Carla wanted to say hello and remind you
that you took her to a boat show on a
date in college. So she's she runs post production on
our programs. And if Carla, if you don't like that comment,
you can cut it out.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And Carla, you were first warmed to hang in. Rick
and I ended up marying Carrie Baker. I don't know
if you do her. She's the first female, first female
chairwoman of twelfth Man. And Carrie and I have now
been married for ten years and having the joy of
our life. So everything ends up right, right, Rick exactly
what God wants, just as God wants a man. That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, So before we dig into brand, on share a
moment in your life when you first realize the true
power of a brand.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
The very first time. That's a great question, the very,
very very first time. So the very first time I
knew a brand was important. Oh, I would have to
say some of the power of the early advertising in
the sixties, I was like, I was like a young kid, uh,
(02:08):
watching commercials and realizing the power of the commercials I
saw more often, whether it was burna aftershave, or whether
it was you know, alcustis or whatever it was. Those
repeated messages and the packaging and the things really really
caught my attention. And I don't know that I obviously
back then did not call it a brand, because no
(02:29):
one did. Brand didn't really become a big thing rick
until about in the late nineteen ninety two thousand h
They weren't even teaching it really in school. Brand was
something that represented a package or a product, but it
didn't really represent the total thing that brand means, and
it wasn't anywhere in our textbooks we knew. I were
in school in the late seventies, and but they talked
(02:53):
brand more as a product. This is a two fish can,
it's starcas. It is a brand, But they didn't talk
about how that how played out and everything from ownership
to the image and the customer loyalty and the delivery
in the package, I mean everything involved. It was just
more of the packaging in the name. But now it's
so much more. And brand became big in the late
nineteen nineties, and then we have this blow up of
(03:16):
everybody wanted to go into marketing, right, particularly females. About
seventy six percent of people at that time that winning
and marketing in the late nineties only two thousand female.
And brand just exploded. Internet came all at that time,
and brand absolutely exploded in the whole definition of how
it changed the world did so. I don't know if
(03:36):
that's a great answer, but it is a little history
of brand. I like that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
What personal experiences branding or challenges shape your philosophy on branding.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
First and foremost, my faith, my belief in Christ. It's
about truth and direct honesty, and at the core of it, truly,
every great brand, I mean they're always exception. Anything you
say in marketing I go find an exception too. But
for the most part, truly great brands, for honest, they're
(04:15):
off venue, they're real, they're genuine who are bad. They're
direct about what they are and what they are all
about and who they're owned by. And that's the cornerstone
of a truly great brand, really really is.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I agree you may not remember this, but I went
to work for Procter and Gamble, so I am. I'm
a part of that team that I wouldn't say invented
the next generation of Tide, but Tide was around in
nineteen thirty seven and then went into soap operas and
then eventually took over Russ America. So Brandon, I am
(04:54):
still brainwashed from Proger package soap and detergent days. And
I'm wondering, as you look at branding today and you
think about bridging creativity with strategy, how in the world
do you balance those two forces in work today? And
(05:15):
give some advice to young brand managers out there. They're
trying to bridge creativity with strategy to come up with
that next great Tide brand.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Another great, great, great question, big challenge for today's youth
because creativity is not taught to textbook as you will have. Yes,
you were way smarter than me in the classroom. That
doesn't make you creative, where anyone else you may be
well creative. I haven't known you in your profession of yours, really,
so I couldn't assess that. But creativity is not taught
(05:45):
to textbook, and it's actually not learned. So it is.
It is a gift, and even you've got it or
you don't now, you can refine it. If you have
a little of it, you can refine it to be
a little better. If you have a lot of it,
you can find it to be a superstar. Creativity texts
first and foremost courage, the courage to fly in the
(06:06):
face of convention, to me, is the number one asset
for creativity. I'll tell your funny story related to what
you brought up. I Herb Thompson, You remember her beloved
propt one of.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
The best professors at A and M at.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
The time, well absolutely professor EMERITISIP for thirty three years
and I was honored and blessed to become very very
close to him throughout my life in a professional career,
and was asked by his family to give his eulogy
when he passed ant I two years old, so I
got to give his eulogy and that was an honor
and blessing that I'll never forget. But Herbert, Herbert, he
(06:41):
was just a classic Herb. But I remember Herb gave
essay test and he had those little blue books and
he wrote essays. I was new, and I was like
a junior. I was a kid, nineteen years old whatever,
and here's this really old man teaching his class. Not
a little it's essay. I don't need to study. I'll
need bullshit my way through this thing. Yeah, and so
I did byh blah blah blah. I remember walking up
(07:02):
pick up my test A couple of days later. There
was an F on the front and he literally wrote
on the cover of it, I've still got I said,
if you think you're bullshitting, you away through my glass. You're wrong.
Now let's start getting to work. And we became just
like I said, I gave his usage. That's how close
we became. But he was right, and he got me
in my first my first interview with Procter and Gambling.
I'm pretty sure it was on the same day and
(07:24):
you had yours. So I walked into rudder towers where
mine was. The Proctum gamble guy, whoever he is, is
sitting at the table, and there's an ash trail on
the table, which most tables had ashtrays back in the sevens.
There was an ashtray sitting on the table. And he
looked at me. He shook my hand, introduced himself. No
nice and theres no introduction, just just I'm Joe Blow
(07:48):
and he goes quiet for thirty seconds and stares at me.
He takes the ash tray and slides it across the
table to me and said, sell me that ashtray. I
looked at him. I took it, I slid it back.
I said, can't you don't smoke? He was on the
hell you know that? I said, I checked your fingernails.
You have no stain, you don't already stand on your
(08:09):
teeth in your pocket is still pressed, so you don't
put cigarettes in it. You don't smoke. I can't sell
you that. That's truck, he said. And you're not going
to work for Proctor gamb We have to damn creative.
And the interview was dead stone cold, Oh not going.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Reynolds, by the way, who ended up being it didn't
work her. But that was Joe Reynolds wingtip shoes, tough
ass urine. You know, so that that is who you faced.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That well, if that was, he's a great guy. I
knew him later. I never realized that's who that was.
That's amazing. But the creativity and strategy. A big challenge
in the world of marketing now is that everybody's gone
so uh so dabbing driven, which is very critical, by
the way, and so much data is available now, so
(09:04):
it's important to be data driven to a point. When
you make that one hundred percent of what drives your
marketing decisions, you will make errors. You will not maximize
your potential. You have to be creativity at the center
of that and understand that brand's livelihood within your consumer
base before you can make full out decisions on strategy
(09:27):
based on data. Again, in the old school world, sometimes
we had no data, right, so we're putting the best
idea out of and seeing what's stuck, going to hit
the wall, and like, you know, that's how it worked. Well,
So we've come a long way in twenty twenty five
for so many metrics available, But metrics don't make you
(09:47):
necessarily successful in market I had a two hour conversation
just a week ago with a very hot, young female
star in the metrics world. She's a literally genius. She
can run circles around me with marketing metrics. She didn't
have a clue what brand really means. And we have
(10:09):
a long discussion, and she had read my book and
she's so grateful and she said, God, this is a
whole side of branding marketing I didn't know. I'm like,
and they're making decisions for people spending millions of dollars.
Have you It's the same way in the old school,
You're like, how'd you make decisions with all of the metrics?
Now it's key for the young people. The best advice
I could give us metrics are solid up, they're critical,
(10:31):
don't ignore them, but don't make it the center of
everything you do.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That was a gut shot coming from Brandon Coleman, author
of brand On. And we're going to talk about AI
and the over influence of that, but let's talk about
brand On. If you had deal the core thesis of
your book into one sentence, one billboard, what's that sentence.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
The one billboard for brand now? Is that's a rick
you it's just you know, you're growing up to be
a great question asker, that's for sure. Yeah, oh I
love it. What is the billboard for brand on it? Truthfully,
millions of dollars of wisdom for the price of a book.
(11:21):
It's got fifty years, nearly a thousand clients, and it's relevant,
it's timely, and it's relevant because marketing changes daily. Branding
changes daily. Brand alignment and the power of it never changes,
(11:43):
never hadn't changed in fifty years. Maybe it changes fifty
years from now, but the power of brand alignment. So
if a brand, we create a definition for a brand.
Rick And in the early eighties when branding was starting
to get big, because trying to explain it to people
an oyal man or a healthcare profess shore someone we're representing,
They're like, well, I don't get branded, I don't get branded,
I don't know, I don't brand my cattle, and I
(12:05):
don't need a can to fish. But I need to
understand what you're trying to tell me and why this
program has more than just advertising. Why it's about sales,
why it's about customer service, why it's about packaging. And
so you're trying to talk to them about brand alignment.
But first you need a definition of brand. The one
we created in nineteen eighty one was a brand as
(12:25):
a promise wrapped in delivery to mine, not all that.
I've googled, all that, I'm ai and it's still the
best definition of brand today. A brand is a promise
wrapped and a delivery. So brand alignment is when everything
about that promise is lines up in what you deliver
that customer, when every single customer touch point and some
(12:47):
say that's impossible, but I disagree. When every single customer
touch point aligns with your promise, that's brand alignment, whatever
it is. Don't be the chicken place that all of
a sudden sells ride fit. That doesn't work. That doesn't work.
A simple but true example that's in the book. You
want to see a great branding alignment, look at buckets.
(13:09):
That's stories of the book as well. You talk about
aligned perfectly everywhere. Nothing they do throws you off kilter.
The minute a brand does something to throw you off
kilter for what to make you stop and just go
why they do that, or why they say that, why
they advertise that, why they launched that point. Once it
does that, it creates a little bit of a lack
(13:31):
of trust you. It dents that trust factor which is
so critical to a brand, and so then people start
start taking a second look at you. And when you
are in brand alignment, then the trust factor is high
and people are loyal and they'll spend money with you
just because they love spending money with you if you're
loyal to delivering on that promise. Dag In and.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Out Well said, I love that. I'm gonna give you
a side story and I want you to comment on
on brand is a promise wrapped in a delivery. A
friend of mine, Brad Casper, ran panteen in Japan. Carly
(14:12):
and I just got back from a three week trip there,
which is far too long, I might add.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
In Japan.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And I stood in the overcrowded subway and the rapid
trains to go to the World's Fair in Osaka, and
I was standing above it, and I saw a couple
of women that had the most beautiful sheen to their hair,
(14:43):
I mean gorgeous shine. And Brad Casper told me years ago,
at six foot six, he stood above everybody in the
subway and he saw what women really wanted, and it
was a shampoo that delivered the shiniest hair. To this day,
(15:06):
he did he do that? Yes, to this day, Panteene
is still the number one because it did exactly what
Brandon Coleman just said. A brand's a promise wrapped in
a delivery. Please comment on that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's an awesome story about Pantina. I never do it.
We'd have to share. Even though I don't have a
lot of hair left, I'm gonna change the pantin and
what hair I got left, I won't give me some
sh I'm gonna give me some shine going on. Uh,
you know that is an awesome story. And and what
I've learned is that archpnevers, let's talk entreprenevers be on
(15:49):
corporate here. Uh, archprenevers that are truly committed to being
Corey are truly committed to their brand being l I
just gave my first ever brand on a Lord. I'm
gonna do about one to two a year to the
rare business that is truly brand law. Now, when you're
(16:09):
in brand alignment, you're in alignment, that's awesome. I'm gonna
give you an A to give you an A plus
to be truly brand on, to be perfect, you have
to be somebody like Ed and Nina Hindi at the
Taste of Texas in Houston. There's a steakhouse that is
a Texas museum and steakhouse built into one. And they
literally do not miss the beat now for thirty five
(16:31):
years and they are amazing human beings, amazing people. And
when interviewing them a month ago, as I handed out
the work, we're about to announce it soon on media
and everything is that he he talked about that commitment.
He talked about the nights where they failed, and that
it hurts so bad when they let a customer down
when their meal experience wasn't an eleven on a scale
(16:53):
of one to ten. How I had hurt him so
deeply that they got better the next day. And every
time that occurred, that was a challenge to be better
and just that relentless effort, that relentless commitment to delivering
it every touch point, and they do them. And that's
one of those places I'm going to go there. It's
kind of like buckets go to BUCkies. You're not it's
(17:13):
gonna be perfect every time. They're amazing. They're absolutely amazing.
From the moment you pull up a gas pump use
their kmode, bibic pecans, whatever it is, it's all the
same and every buckets and it lines up and they
do a great job. And if they ever drop a
little ball, somebody jumps on top of it. But that,
you know, that's what an entrepreneur needs doing. Now. Corporations
get somebody like a property and gamble, they need to
(17:35):
do it too. They have the structure and they have
the people. It's harder some time to move a begger
ship like that, right, sure, sure you know that far
better than me the big corporation I got a chance
to represent, you get It depends so much on the
way they were organized to deliver, to deliver a brand,
so you could support the people who actually made the
rubber hit the road. Right, The outside agency one't going
(17:58):
to come in and make it happen for him. We
were going to come in and create the atmosphere for
them to make it happen. But guys like you and
sales teams had to actually make the rubber hit the
road in an entrepreneurship bull that leader, that one leader,
his small leadership team, that family owned business. They have
to go out and make that happen day.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Why did you bring up Ed and Nina? They are
my brother and sister in law, Karen's very very very
dearest friends in all the world. Kidding me, they are
my dad's coffee mial that the one that's a giant
one for a general store is in a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You're kidding me.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
They are the They are the epitome of a of
a brand and an experience that consistently delivers every single day.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Isn't that amazing? Happy? That's so totally unplanned. But I've
done them before, thirty eight years now, and uh, I
just love them. I mean I love them, love them, dearly, dearly, dearly,
great people, great Christians people that uh you know, he's
had a chance. He could have had two hundred and
three hundred four hundred taste of Texas around the world.
(19:16):
Of course he's in money thunder him any more, from
Russia to Timbuck to Africa, you name it, Open one here,
Open one here. Because everybody loves a Texas brand and
they do it so right. And as you know, when
you asked Dad or Diamond, why didn't know all that?
Why did we take a they said, we we wanted
that experience be every time you walk in here. The
long way we can do that is to be here.
(19:38):
That's they build their team that way, and they love
their employees that way, and and they inspire and encourage
others to be that way. It's just their cut. I'm
blessed to have known them in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I want to go on a little bit of a
tangent with the two men in Ed's story and get
your comment on it. This is kind of this is
going to weave in the brand On book with a
Ed Hindi story He's telling He's telling George, my brother
and me about landing the plane on Highway fifty nine
(20:15):
in the middle And I and I think about it often,
and I think about Ed Junior often, What an incredible
what an incredible son that he was and still represents
to his children. But the landing of a plane, when
you're out of gas walking the plane to boot is
(20:38):
just like running a brand. You got to land the
plane and you got to survive to some extent. And
I think about all the young entrepreneurs that aren't getting
any direction in college whatsoever about being extraordinary branders of
their products, and are they supposed to land their big plane,
their big visions. So as we cut to commercial, I
(21:00):
want you to be thinking about that, and I'm going
to give you the I'm gonna give you the nod.
Tell us that where we can buy your book and
maybe even get a sign autograph copy.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
You got it, brother, I'll do that right now. Just
go to Amazon dot com. I can send you the bookstores,
but I'm going to tell you my experience in the
publishing world. Just go to Amazon dot com and get
it done. And if you want to sign copy, and
you're gonna have to catch me somewhere give it a
speech or or at A and M or something, and
I'm happy to sign copies. At that point. We've been
very blessed in coming to Amazon bestseller. So go to
(21:32):
Amazon and buy the book and do me a big
favorite going there and write something nice about it and
throw five stars up there and keep keep it spending.
We're not doing this for money. As a matter of fact,
there was a big investment to share the experiences of
fifty years of Brandon with with these young entrepreneurs you're
talking about, with people that back then maybe couldn't afford
our help or didn't want it. One of the two
(21:54):
U and so We're out there just sharing wisdom and knowledge.
I said, I'm not out selling marketing services, and I'm
not trying to land gag and trust me, there's no
money at books so Amazon dot com. Brandon, when you
come back for commercial, I'll hold it up for you. Perfect.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
We will be right back after this special message from
Marcus Aurelius.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
This is Marcus Aurelius reappearing to proclaim that Truly Significant
Conversations with big hearted people is a rare piece of literature.
This book reminds me of one of my more stirring quotes,
waste no more time arguing what a good man should
be be one. If you're stepping into your next life
(22:44):
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this book is for you. Dive into forty soul stirring
stories from luminaries like doctor Jane Goodall, Ed Asner, and
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TOLKINI Truly Significant will challenge your view of success and
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Speaker 4 (23:31):
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Visit truly significant dot com and celebrate the most truly
significant people in your life with the truly significant community.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Out bold of.
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You to make your next chapter matter and be truly significant.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, we have a section of most shows and we've
rebranded it as gut shots because I like rants, and
this is we are approaching our four thy, one hundredth podcasts.
I boring podcasts, So I want to create a gut
(24:20):
shot right now at AI on why it's positive and
why it's a drag.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
It's super positive because it takes the front end of
what's necessary in a brand project, just the accumulation of
data and knowledge about a certain market and marketplace, a
product of perception. Whatever you can enter, if you know
how to work out you could enter into it. You
can prompt engineering to get all that data. And I
used to spend months, sometimes on smaller projects, weeks getting
(24:53):
that data together with teams hiring people. I can get
that same data even better, even more thorough now with
AI in a matter of seconds, not minutes, seconds, and
then if I want to go deeper out further prompt engineering,
and it's just amazing. It's like having my own world
class research team in the palm of my hand. And
(25:16):
therefore stuff that used to really wear you out on
the front end doesn't anymore. You get that front end
stuff and you can spend that time as you were
talking earlier, you can spend that time creativity. You can
spend that time because great creativity. Sometimes it's bam, bam bam.
You hit hard and then forget about it for two weeks.
Take a hike in the mountains and all of a
sudden you're walking around and bam, it hits you. And
(25:37):
then then you go back to that data. But AI,
it's amazing, amazing. At the front end of a brand
project wouldn't work without it anymore, No way I would.
On the flip side, it is so easy for me
to read something say that's a that's A that's a II,
and I can't tell you and forgive me so many
other people. How many wankers there are out in the
(25:59):
market world call themselves marketing experts. They don't include what
marketing is. But they're good at TikTok or whatever. And
I'm not doubting the people to make millions on TikTok
or Facebook, but I respect that that's great, good, easy money.
But for your average product, your average company running normal
marketing program trying to get out and grow up business.
(26:20):
For somebody to come out with no expertise and no
experience because they can want to run one certain silo
of a social media app, call themselves marketing experts. Not.
One of my last episodes was Beware of marketing experts
And what's the first thing they do? Feed their stuff
into AI and here come the solutions. They're quite pardon me,
they're terrible. They're terrible solutions. And that one piece of
(26:44):
magic you need to make a brand coreat is not
going to be found on AI. Period. It's going to
come from that connectivity of all the things that smart
person knows, that wise person knows, that created person knows,
that can see a marketplace, see all the data, bring
it all the bear and see something that computer will
not see and name a brand, creative brand. Now, will
(27:07):
aiut and give you great ideas? Many times it will
will a outset the foundation. Absolutely, will it give you
the background, you bet, and once you nail that creativity
and that concept. And I've done this several times with
a few one off projects I've done the last five years.
Once I nail that creative and I go down and
feed that creative into AI. Basically, Okay, so I have
(27:29):
AI research. Then I go off, whether it's with a
team or myself or whatever, and come up with the creative,
the pluck, pluck viz viz. The I need that worked out,
the whatever that creative is, and then I'll feed it
back into the machine based on the research. The adbounished
strategy it gives me is frightening. It is absolutely frightening.
(27:49):
And so you put personal touches on that and put
polish on it, go to market a few days. It's amazing.
It's amazing how much it has expedited the brand concept
delivery system.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I'm real, it's so true. That is a great uh pro.
And con, I don't think I've heard anybody articulate it
quite like you. If Brad Kasper were on, he would say,
is AI going to be on that subway to see
shiny Japanese hair?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Exactly? No, No, I won't be looking at that it's
just those small things. It's why you know there are
some you actually come their own brand leader early on.
They may nail the name of their company or nail
the product, and they get everything right. And those aren't
Those do happen. Those do happen most of the time.
(28:41):
And this is in the book. It talks about in
my book, are the seven potholes that destroy branded light?
One of those potholes. One of those potholes. Because if
you think of brand alignment, think of lanes on the highway,
Think of cars standing in alignenment. Think if your car
is stand in alignment, four wheels, If everything's in enlightenment
in your brand, that car goes smoothly down right. If
(29:02):
one thing's out in alignment, that car rattis and rolls
in the tired work quickly in the axle, and you
just don't get the ride you need that you can
have with a fully ballast fully aligned car. So on
the flip side, we have a chapter called the Seven
Popolos the Degree of brand alignment. One of them is
an entrepreneur not being able to see the force for
the trees. They know their product so well that they
(29:25):
can't see where the magical brand needs to be. They
know it so well and they eat, sleep and drinking.
That's not a shortcoming. It's not a lack of knowledge,
and it's not a lack of effort. It's just somebody
that's experienced can come in see that in the matter
sometimes in seconds and know what the brand needs to
(29:46):
be sometime in a matter of seconds, and it's something
about maybe ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen years. But they're so
closer it they can't see the force for the tree.
So that's just one they're selling up them and to
the book brand On and go get it. Oh good
read all showing of.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Them way to go, Brandon. I'm going to spend the
last three or four questions with our special guest, Brandon Coleman,
author of brand On. But these are going to go
deeper and more philosophical. This latest book that we wrote,
Truly Significant, has a chapter in it on one of
(30:26):
our heroes, and park right next to doctor Jane Goodall
is a story on General Earl Rudder and Carl and
I went to visit Normandy and saw the cliffs that
he climbed with his team. Rudder Tower is the exact
(30:46):
same height as those cliffs, a little known to us
Aggie's and we saw a phrase that was there at Normandy.
I was saved for a purpose. That is the center
of this book. And as we celebrate celebrate truly significant
(31:07):
people that have big hearts, just like General Rudder today, Brandon,
how would you define success versus significance in your life?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, first and all, I'm not sure I get a
covey of book. Is it up on Amazon? Where? Grab it? Easy?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yes, sir, and I'll send you one. Just hang on afterwards,
I need to get your address.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
I'll do you a welcome. We both want all to
grab companies from old range. I know that, and I
I'd be honored, and I want to read it bad.
And I think significance is what it's all about. And
it's like God's got my purpose. And when you know
your purpose and then the significance lines up right behind it,
there's no doubt what you can be doing. I mean,
there are times when all of us, even once we
(31:50):
have Christ and serve our lives, we know we know
what our purpose is, and there are still times when
we're going to doubt. Still doesn't know? Okay, did I
wear that purpose out? Did that book is off got
or you still want me doing that, or you want
me doing something else. As a matter of fact, I
hadn't handled a brand project in two or three years.
It was just like I donulated anymore. I've got other
(32:10):
things going on. And God, just today these people trying
to get you write a book for twenty years, write
the book, And so I thought that's easy. So I
wrote the book. It's been about a year to writing
Zero Ai zero Ai in that book. But AI has
read my book now, so they've got me in there.
But as I'm going through, I realized that I've got
(32:32):
to read launch a whole marketing initiative. I've got to
build a website, I've got to put social I've got
to put a lot of things out there to make
it relevant to today's market or or I mean, guys
like you would appreciate it, people like others would appreciate it,
but it's not going to reach the masses the way
I've needed to the way I have. And so we
(32:52):
invest and we built this big campaign and photo shoots
and videos and on and on, which has been absolutely
as especially when there's no profit money at all. But
I knew to get that foundation and I can't say, hey, man,
I was really great at branding fifty years ago. That naught.
He gives a rat you know what about that? But
when you've been in it fifty years, we've got a
(33:14):
thousand classes and speak up for you. People will give
you a testimony and then you write the book. All
of a sudden, he're somebody. And so the way how
many to be able to witness better to share bass
LORI about off for Christ.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
And they find that.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Is to become more known and to get out there
and become a bestseller, to get it out there. So
I have those opportunities to share that message, and I
really really have. A good friend of ours is written
Warren number one selling author of all the time, number
one book purpose driven Life, and Kirie and I ended
up becoming Marybody. He and his team out at Salaback
Church in California because that book was at the core
(33:52):
of our relationship and the opening the line of that book,
Rick is it's not about you. And that's what drives
great significance is when you realize it's not about you,
and then you find what it is about for you,
what God's purposes for you, and then you drive it
it's also to me what drives great brands. Again, going
(34:12):
back to the very first question you asked about truth
about what drives a great brand, It's truth and that
truth needs to align with that significance. And when you do, Wow, man,
there is unlimited potential for a brand.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You go, you actually go into a different zone. And
if you listen to this show, really hear what Brandon
just said. A book is a mere platform. You're not
gonna get rich on your book.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I'm probably gonna lose probably gonna lose money.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah, you may lose money exactly. But Okay, So you
and I have had this a parallel path as Aggie's
and entrepreneurs and and now you've got this beautiful idea
with brand on as a platform to leverage your past
experience and wisdom. Why is it that we can't have
(35:10):
epiphany sooner than when we are Brandon Coleman seven point
h or Ricky Tokini's seven point oh versions. Why can't
How can we speed up epiphanies and get the next
generation to jump on the bandwagon faster of being significant
more than successful?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
To me, it's a real long conversation. I think in
a day and time we're likes and thumbs up and
followings or how many are on your social to the
younger generation mean more than words. Well he's got two
million followers, he must be somebody. You've only got fourteen
thousand ors wrong with you. Think about that. I've got
(35:55):
two or three people that have just made kingpin differences
in my life and in the life loos around me. Okay,
Herb Thompson being alive. I don't need a million followers
to meet that one man, that one person. But you're
not going to convince the average millennial rigins or that
that's the case these days. And so you have to
(36:17):
become prominent enough that they want to look into you.
And those who have reached out to me, and I've
got some young people that have reached out to me,
they go, Hey, I know you're probably not going to
answer this text or this email or this LinkedIn. You're
probably never going to talk to me. But man, I
read your book and I've just got this, and I
picked up the phone and calling, and they're like poop
in their pants. They go, God, you're the author. I said, yeah,
(36:37):
what's up? Well, I got this, I got that, and
I've become dear friends said when they have, I got
several of them a mentor, and that, to me is
still awesome. But those kids have reached out of that
zone their parents raised that way, where they're courageous enough,
they're honest enough, they're daring enough to say, I'm going
to talk to that author. I don't want to find
out why. I don't want to find out what bay.
(36:57):
You know, when I was when it was running my front,
I was we were very blessed. I started it when
I was twenty four. By the time I was thirty
ballpark thirty one thirty two. One day I walk in
my office. I think I had about top fourteen employees
if we had thirty or forty clients, and we're doing
very well. I'm very blessed. But my secretary comes in
(37:18):
at three o'clock in the afternoon. She said, Brandon, you okay?
I said, wow, what do you mean? She said, well,
I came in at seven thirty this morning and you
were sitting there staring at the wall. And it's three
o'clock and you're still sitting there staring at the wall.
You haven't taken one call, you've never left the office,
you haven't got a cup of coffee and no one
has seen you all day. Shit, really, she said, yeah.
(37:43):
I went, Wow, I better get out of here. And
I don't know why, but I went to the bookstore.
I went to a barn and Noble, got me a
cup of coffee and she started walking around. Okay, God,
what's going on? And back then, my first rction was
go to self out books. And there was a book
called The Paradox of Success and it was written in
(38:04):
the eighties by John R. O'Neill, who was the president
of the California School of Psychiatry, brilliant man. And the
book was interviewing people who've made lots of money and
been very successful, but it wasn't about the success. It
was about their failures. And it was so awesome. And
I'm reading through it. I mean, I just I was
(38:26):
all thirty fourth kidn of coffee. I wasn't going to
leave Barnes and Noble and I'm down and I get
to chapter seven and it was called The Personal Retreat. Well,
I don't know about you, guys Frock and Gambley, but
us entrepreneurs in the seventies, eighties, nineties, if we ever
left the office for a quote trip, whether it was
(38:46):
two days or a week, we took somebody with us.
It was the wife, wife and kids, clients. Friend. You
never waited anywhere by yourself. That was unheard of, and
it wasn't even manly. But this book. What he said was,
if you're a hard charge it I'm from me or
her top flying executive is big corp, you need a
minimal of one week a year away alone. And I'm like,
(39:11):
who the hell does that? I didn't know anybody person
ever done it back then. Nobody did. And I'm sitting
there going God, just the sound of that sounds good.
I mean, I worried for three kids. I fourteen ploys,
I had clients, I was serving on boards, I was
doing charity stuff for school districts and just want to
just going nuts. And I realized I was frozen out.
(39:34):
And so I'm reading this book and I'm like, come on, dude,
how am I going to get a day of way,
much less a week. So I picked up the phone
and called the California School Asukay and I got to
the secretary and I said, man, I need to speak
to President John R.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Neil.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
She said Masson's call. I said, yep, he does not
have a clue. I am. I am Brandon Coleman Jr.
And I have chapter seven of his book and I
need him. She said, hold on. He picks up the phone,
goes Brandon, how are you doing today? I said, well,
better now that you're on the phone. But I don't
have a clue or a week away by myself, a paylike,
(40:11):
but I feel like I needed Where do you go?
So he starts talking to me about the whole thing,
and he said, I'm going to recommend a place to
your name, Canyon Ranch and two sun Arizona. It was
at the time number one world retreat spa of health, mind, body, spirit, exercise, workout,
great food kind of place. And he said, I know
the chaneral well malsucker. This is one part forty years ago.
(40:34):
And I said, wow, I'll go soon. He said no, no, no, no,
it's a three month wait. He said. Celebrities use it,
Hollywood athletes, business people. You can't get in, he said,
But here's what I want you to do. Just book
a flight to two sun Arizona for tomorrow, go home
(40:55):
tonight and tell your wife you're going away for a week.
She'll probably be happy. And get on that airplane and
show up. There would be somebody the airport with a
sign on your name. I'm like, mes, I'll handle it.
So I did what he said, just blind, got on
a plane to two cent Arizona. Showed up with my
(41:16):
bag in my hand. Guy Will sitting there, said Brandon,
call him my honey. Dan took me in my room.
It was a light there's a light beat dig in
my room. On the phone. Back in the days they
did that kind of stuff. I pick up the phone.
It was recording. This is the chairman, Belzuckerman's assistant administrative assistant,
and he would like to see you at three thirty
the Center in his office. I'm not wait a minute.
(41:36):
I'm getting my place, got a three month wait list,
and I'm meeting with the chairman on the first day.
This is the coop. So I go meet with me
and tells me the whole story of how and why
he started the place based on his father's death bed,
blah blah blah blah blah. And that place changed my life.
And I went there every year for one week by
myself for forty years, and on occasion I would I
(42:00):
had an extra trip and do team building and take
em ployise on occasionally have an extra trip and take
my wife. But I never missed the mighty here my
week because the of the deep meaning it gave me
in the ability to reload creative and to open up
the senses and to see where I was making mistakes
and theirs and get closer to God and just just
all the above. As a matter of fact, it's kind
(42:21):
of ironic. Carrie and I right now we're considering a
home there for a better part of the year, along
in our residents in Texas. So great place. But the
point list is I was a kid and I needed help,
and I read the book and I reached out and
Rick the Key or Brandy call me or John dal
(42:43):
and I picked upon so hey, can you help me?
And it's amazing because most authors will because they wrote
a book for a purpose. Most of them didn't write
it to make money. Most of them wrote it because
they want to share it. And you'd be surprised somebody
were willing to talk to you or at least email
you and give you some advice. Oh, I think it's
a it's a fun picture.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Beautiful picture. It's it's a great way to wrap up
the show. I think that there's so much value in
the number forty and maybe that was your walk in
the desert. And people need time, people need there on
time and people listening today, kids, you not. I want
you to start thinking about the number forty, not because
(43:27):
it's in the Bible or it's Jesus related. It is
a It is a number that's of great significance. And
there you land on forty years of it. People need
time to rest and rediscover their faith in God. I'm convinced.
But if you don't stop, you'll never know.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Right well, you do need to stop, and it helps you,
you know. Gratitude to me is a huge word in
the world's braining of whole life. And I just think
when you have time away, your gratitude for all those
around really true spouse, friend, your buddy's, your kids, your coworkers,
and your and your savior just just grow EXPONENTI that
(44:10):
we have time to stop, especially today's generations got their
finger on the phone all the time.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
That's exactly right, Brandon. It's been a joy to talk
to you again, and I look forward to staying in
touch with you, maybe see you at a game this
coming fall. And what a pleasure it is, And congratulations
on your gift of significance called brand On.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
I appreciate you, congratulations of your success. Mean, I've got
a podcast called The brand Arm Show, and I think
I'm in my forty eighth episode and felt like I
was doing pretty good because they said I passed all
the boss Stones and most people here you are. How
mean have you done on them? Half a million of
them or something like that? How many knows? It? Does that?
Speaker 1 (44:57):
The number doesn't matter and it's about what if you
found the right one person, not the one million first?
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Well, that's that's so very true. But the fact that
you have consistently delivered that thing and talked to so
many awesome people, I mean, that's that's exciting stuff. So
congratulations on that.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Thanks for joining us, And make sure and buy Brandon's
book A brand On on Amazon today and write a
review about it too. That does matter. Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
We love you, guys, best to you and your lovely
wife and your family.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Folks, we hope that you have a great week and
we wish you success, but on your way to significance,
have a good one.
I'm Rick Tolkeinny and we hope that you all are
having a great day out there. We have a very
special guest on who I have not talked to in years.
It's Brandon Coleman. We were both in the class of
seventy eight in Texas A and M. We were in
marketing class together, then we served on a board together
(00:31):
in later years. He is an entrepreneur, former ad agency,
owner to my recollection, great leader, and now an author
of a book called brand On. Brandon, welcome to our show.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Thank you, Rick, if you're appreciated, and great memories together
in the classrooms.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Absolutely, and Carla wanted to say hello and remind you
that you took her to a boat show on a
date in college. So she's she runs post production on
our programs. And if Carla, if you don't like that comment,
you can cut it out.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And Carla, you were first warmed to hang in. Rick
and I ended up marying Carrie Baker. I don't know
if you do her. She's the first female, first female
chairwoman of twelfth Man. And Carrie and I have now
been married for ten years and having the joy of
our life. So everything ends up right, right, Rick exactly
what God wants, just as God wants a man. That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, So before we dig into brand, on share a
moment in your life when you first realize the true
power of a brand.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
The very first time. That's a great question, the very,
very very first time. So the very first time I
knew a brand was important. Oh, I would have to
say some of the power of the early advertising in
the sixties, I was like, I was like a young kid, uh,
(02:08):
watching commercials and realizing the power of the commercials I
saw more often, whether it was burna aftershave, or whether
it was you know, alcustis or whatever it was. Those
repeated messages and the packaging and the things really really
caught my attention. And I don't know that I obviously
back then did not call it a brand, because no
(02:29):
one did. Brand didn't really become a big thing rick
until about in the late nineteen ninety two thousand h
They weren't even teaching it really in school. Brand was
something that represented a package or a product, but it
didn't really represent the total thing that brand means, and
it wasn't anywhere in our textbooks we knew. I were
in school in the late seventies, and but they talked
(02:53):
brand more as a product. This is a two fish can,
it's starcas. It is a brand, But they didn't talk
about how that how played out and everything from ownership
to the image and the customer loyalty and the delivery
in the package, I mean everything involved. It was just
more of the packaging in the name. But now it's
so much more. And brand became big in the late
nineteen nineties, and then we have this blow up of
(03:16):
everybody wanted to go into marketing, right, particularly females. About
seventy six percent of people at that time that winning
and marketing in the late nineties only two thousand female.
And brand just exploded. Internet came all at that time,
and brand absolutely exploded in the whole definition of how
it changed the world did so. I don't know if
(03:36):
that's a great answer, but it is a little history
of brand. I like that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
What personal experiences branding or challenges shape your philosophy on branding.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
First and foremost, my faith, my belief in Christ. It's
about truth and direct honesty, and at the core of it, truly,
every great brand, I mean they're always exception. Anything you
say in marketing I go find an exception too. But
for the most part, truly great brands, for honest, they're
(04:15):
off venue, they're real, they're genuine who are bad. They're
direct about what they are and what they are all
about and who they're owned by. And that's the cornerstone
of a truly great brand, really really is.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I agree you may not remember this, but I went
to work for Procter and Gamble, so I am. I'm
a part of that team that I wouldn't say invented
the next generation of Tide, but Tide was around in
nineteen thirty seven and then went into soap operas and
then eventually took over Russ America. So Brandon, I am
(04:54):
still brainwashed from Proger package soap and detergent days. And
I'm wondering, as you look at branding today and you
think about bridging creativity with strategy, how in the world
do you balance those two forces in work today? And
(05:15):
give some advice to young brand managers out there. They're
trying to bridge creativity with strategy to come up with
that next great Tide brand.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Another great, great, great question, big challenge for today's youth
because creativity is not taught to textbook as you will have. Yes,
you were way smarter than me in the classroom. That
doesn't make you creative, where anyone else you may be
well creative. I haven't known you in your profession of yours, really,
so I couldn't assess that. But creativity is not taught
(05:45):
to textbook, and it's actually not learned. So it is.
It is a gift, and even you've got it or
you don't now, you can refine it. If you have
a little of it, you can refine it to be
a little better. If you have a lot of it,
you can find it to be a superstar. Creativity texts
first and foremost courage, the courage to fly in the
(06:06):
face of convention, to me, is the number one asset
for creativity. I'll tell your funny story related to what
you brought up. I Herb Thompson, You remember her beloved
propt one of.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
The best professors at A and M at.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
The time, well absolutely professor EMERITISIP for thirty three years
and I was honored and blessed to become very very
close to him throughout my life in a professional career,
and was asked by his family to give his eulogy
when he passed ant I two years old, so I
got to give his eulogy and that was an honor
and blessing that I'll never forget. But Herbert, Herbert, he
(06:41):
was just a classic Herb. But I remember Herb gave
essay test and he had those little blue books and
he wrote essays. I was new, and I was like
a junior. I was a kid, nineteen years old whatever,
and here's this really old man teaching his class. Not
a little it's essay. I don't need to study. I'll
need bullshit my way through this thing. Yeah, and so
I did byh blah blah blah. I remember walking up
(07:02):
pick up my test A couple of days later. There
was an F on the front and he literally wrote
on the cover of it, I've still got I said,
if you think you're bullshitting, you away through my glass. You're wrong.
Now let's start getting to work. And we became just
like I said, I gave his usage. That's how close
we became. But he was right, and he got me
in my first my first interview with Procter and Gambling.
I'm pretty sure it was on the same day and
(07:24):
you had yours. So I walked into rudder towers where
mine was. The Proctum gamble guy, whoever he is, is
sitting at the table, and there's an ash trail on
the table, which most tables had ashtrays back in the sevens.
There was an ashtray sitting on the table. And he
looked at me. He shook my hand, introduced himself. No
nice and theres no introduction, just just I'm Joe Blow
(07:48):
and he goes quiet for thirty seconds and stares at me.
He takes the ash tray and slides it across the
table to me and said, sell me that ashtray. I
looked at him. I took it, I slid it back.
I said, can't you don't smoke? He was on the
hell you know that? I said, I checked your fingernails.
You have no stain, you don't already stand on your
(08:09):
teeth in your pocket is still pressed, so you don't
put cigarettes in it. You don't smoke. I can't sell
you that. That's truck, he said. And you're not going
to work for Proctor gamb We have to damn creative.
And the interview was dead stone cold, Oh not going.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Reynolds, by the way, who ended up being it didn't
work her. But that was Joe Reynolds wingtip shoes, tough
ass urine. You know, so that that is who you faced.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That well, if that was, he's a great guy. I
knew him later. I never realized that's who that was.
That's amazing. But the creativity and strategy. A big challenge
in the world of marketing now is that everybody's gone
so uh so dabbing driven, which is very critical, by
the way, and so much data is available now, so
(09:04):
it's important to be data driven to a point. When
you make that one hundred percent of what drives your
marketing decisions, you will make errors. You will not maximize
your potential. You have to be creativity at the center
of that and understand that brand's livelihood within your consumer
base before you can make full out decisions on strategy
(09:27):
based on data. Again, in the old school world, sometimes
we had no data, right, so we're putting the best
idea out of and seeing what's stuck, going to hit
the wall, and like, you know, that's how it worked. Well,
So we've come a long way in twenty twenty five
for so many metrics available, But metrics don't make you
(09:47):
necessarily successful in market I had a two hour conversation
just a week ago with a very hot, young female
star in the metrics world. She's a literally genius. She
can run circles around me with marketing metrics. She didn't
have a clue what brand really means. And we have
(10:09):
a long discussion, and she had read my book and
she's so grateful and she said, God, this is a
whole side of branding marketing I didn't know. I'm like,
and they're making decisions for people spending millions of dollars.
Have you It's the same way in the old school,
You're like, how'd you make decisions with all of the metrics?
Now it's key for the young people. The best advice
I could give us metrics are solid up, they're critical,
(10:31):
don't ignore them, but don't make it the center of
everything you do.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
That was a gut shot coming from Brandon Coleman, author
of brand On. And we're going to talk about AI
and the over influence of that, but let's talk about
brand On. If you had deal the core thesis of
your book into one sentence, one billboard, what's that sentence.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
The one billboard for brand now? Is that's a rick
you it's just you know, you're growing up to be
a great question asker, that's for sure. Yeah, oh I
love it. What is the billboard for brand on it? Truthfully,
millions of dollars of wisdom for the price of a book.
(11:21):
It's got fifty years, nearly a thousand clients, and it's relevant,
it's timely, and it's relevant because marketing changes daily. Branding
changes daily. Brand alignment and the power of it never changes,
(11:43):
never hadn't changed in fifty years. Maybe it changes fifty
years from now, but the power of brand alignment. So
if a brand, we create a definition for a brand.
Rick And in the early eighties when branding was starting
to get big, because trying to explain it to people
an oyal man or a healthcare profess shore someone we're representing,
They're like, well, I don't get branded, I don't get branded,
I don't know, I don't brand my cattle, and I
(12:05):
don't need a can to fish. But I need to
understand what you're trying to tell me and why this
program has more than just advertising. Why it's about sales,
why it's about customer service, why it's about packaging. And
so you're trying to talk to them about brand alignment.
But first you need a definition of brand. The one
we created in nineteen eighty one was a brand as
(12:25):
a promise wrapped in delivery to mine, not all that.
I've googled, all that, I'm ai and it's still the
best definition of brand today. A brand is a promise
wrapped and a delivery. So brand alignment is when everything
about that promise is lines up in what you deliver
that customer, when every single customer touch point and some
(12:47):
say that's impossible, but I disagree. When every single customer
touch point aligns with your promise, that's brand alignment, whatever
it is. Don't be the chicken place that all of
a sudden sells ride fit. That doesn't work. That doesn't work.
A simple but true example that's in the book. You
want to see a great branding alignment, look at buckets.
(13:09):
That's stories of the book as well. You talk about
aligned perfectly everywhere. Nothing they do throws you off kilter.
The minute a brand does something to throw you off
kilter for what to make you stop and just go
why they do that, or why they say that, why
they advertise that, why they launched that point. Once it
does that, it creates a little bit of a lack
(13:31):
of trust you. It dents that trust factor which is
so critical to a brand, and so then people start
start taking a second look at you. And when you
are in brand alignment, then the trust factor is high
and people are loyal and they'll spend money with you
just because they love spending money with you if you're
loyal to delivering on that promise. Dag In and.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Out Well said, I love that. I'm gonna give you
a side story and I want you to comment on
on brand is a promise wrapped in a delivery. A
friend of mine, Brad Casper, ran panteen in Japan. Carly
(14:12):
and I just got back from a three week trip there,
which is far too long, I might add.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
In Japan.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
And I stood in the overcrowded subway and the rapid
trains to go to the World's Fair in Osaka, and
I was standing above it, and I saw a couple
of women that had the most beautiful sheen to their hair,
(14:43):
I mean gorgeous shine. And Brad Casper told me years ago,
at six foot six, he stood above everybody in the
subway and he saw what women really wanted, and it
was a shampoo that delivered the shiniest hair. To this day,
(15:06):
he did he do that? Yes, to this day, Panteene
is still the number one because it did exactly what
Brandon Coleman just said. A brand's a promise wrapped in
a delivery. Please comment on that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
That's an awesome story about Pantina. I never do it.
We'd have to share. Even though I don't have a
lot of hair left, I'm gonna change the pantin and
what hair I got left, I won't give me some
sh I'm gonna give me some shine going on. Uh,
you know that is an awesome story. And and what
I've learned is that archpnevers, let's talk entreprenevers be on
(15:49):
corporate here. Uh, archprenevers that are truly committed to being
Corey are truly committed to their brand being l I
just gave my first ever brand on a Lord. I'm
gonna do about one to two a year to the
rare business that is truly brand law. Now, when you're
(16:09):
in brand alignment, you're in alignment, that's awesome. I'm gonna
give you an A to give you an A plus
to be truly brand on, to be perfect, you have
to be somebody like Ed and Nina Hindi at the
Taste of Texas in Houston. There's a steakhouse that is
a Texas museum and steakhouse built into one. And they
literally do not miss the beat now for thirty five
(16:31):
years and they are amazing human beings, amazing people. And
when interviewing them a month ago, as I handed out
the work, we're about to announce it soon on media
and everything is that he he talked about that commitment.
He talked about the nights where they failed, and that
it hurts so bad when they let a customer down
when their meal experience wasn't an eleven on a scale
(16:53):
of one to ten. How I had hurt him so
deeply that they got better the next day. And every
time that occurred, that was a challenge to be better
and just that relentless effort, that relentless commitment to delivering
it every touch point, and they do them. And that's
one of those places I'm going to go there. It's
kind of like buckets go to BUCkies. You're not it's
(17:13):
gonna be perfect every time. They're amazing. They're absolutely amazing.
From the moment you pull up a gas pump use
their kmode, bibic pecans, whatever it is, it's all the
same and every buckets and it lines up and they
do a great job. And if they ever drop a
little ball, somebody jumps on top of it. But that,
you know, that's what an entrepreneur needs doing. Now. Corporations
get somebody like a property and gamble, they need to
(17:35):
do it too. They have the structure and they have
the people. It's harder some time to move a begger
ship like that, right, sure, sure you know that far
better than me the big corporation I got a chance
to represent, you get It depends so much on the
way they were organized to deliver, to deliver a brand,
so you could support the people who actually made the
rubber hit the road. Right, The outside agency one't going
(17:58):
to come in and make it happen for him. We
were going to come in and create the atmosphere for
them to make it happen. But guys like you and
sales teams had to actually make the rubber hit the
road in an entrepreneurship bull that leader, that one leader,
his small leadership team, that family owned business. They have
to go out and make that happen day.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Why did you bring up Ed and Nina? They are
my brother and sister in law, Karen's very very very
dearest friends in all the world. Kidding me, they are
my dad's coffee mial that the one that's a giant
one for a general store is in a restaurant.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
You're kidding me.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
They are the They are the epitome of a of
a brand and an experience that consistently delivers every single day.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Isn't that amazing? Happy? That's so totally unplanned. But I've
done them before, thirty eight years now, and uh, I
just love them. I mean I love them, love them, dearly, dearly, dearly,
great people, great Christians people that uh you know, he's
had a chance. He could have had two hundred and
three hundred four hundred taste of Texas around the world.
(19:16):
Of course he's in money thunder him any more, from
Russia to Timbuck to Africa, you name it, Open one here,
Open one here. Because everybody loves a Texas brand and
they do it so right. And as you know, when
you asked Dad or Diamond, why didn't know all that?
Why did we take a they said, we we wanted
that experience be every time you walk in here. The
long way we can do that is to be here.
(19:38):
That's they build their team that way, and they love
their employees that way, and and they inspire and encourage
others to be that way. It's just their cut. I'm
blessed to have known them in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I want to go on a little bit of a
tangent with the two men in Ed's story and get
your comment on it. This is kind of this is
going to weave in the brand On book with a
Ed Hindi story He's telling He's telling George, my brother
and me about landing the plane on Highway fifty nine
(20:15):
in the middle And I and I think about it often,
and I think about Ed Junior often, What an incredible
what an incredible son that he was and still represents
to his children. But the landing of a plane, when
you're out of gas walking the plane to boot is
(20:38):
just like running a brand. You got to land the
plane and you got to survive to some extent. And
I think about all the young entrepreneurs that aren't getting
any direction in college whatsoever about being extraordinary branders of
their products, and are they supposed to land their big plane,
their big visions. So as we cut to commercial, I
(21:00):
want you to be thinking about that, and I'm going
to give you the I'm gonna give you the nod.
Tell us that where we can buy your book and
maybe even get a sign autograph copy.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
You got it, brother, I'll do that right now. Just
go to Amazon dot com. I can send you the bookstores,
but I'm going to tell you my experience in the
publishing world. Just go to Amazon dot com and get
it done. And if you want to sign copy, and
you're gonna have to catch me somewhere give it a
speech or or at A and M or something, and
I'm happy to sign copies. At that point. We've been
very blessed in coming to Amazon bestseller. So go to
(21:32):
Amazon and buy the book and do me a big
favorite going there and write something nice about it and
throw five stars up there and keep keep it spending.
We're not doing this for money. As a matter of fact,
there was a big investment to share the experiences of
fifty years of Brandon with with these young entrepreneurs you're
talking about, with people that back then maybe couldn't afford
our help or didn't want it. One of the two
(21:54):
U and so We're out there just sharing wisdom and knowledge.
I said, I'm not out selling marketing services, and I'm
not trying to land gag and trust me, there's no
money at books so Amazon dot com. Brandon, when you
come back for commercial, I'll hold it up for you. Perfect.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
We will be right back after this special message from
Marcus Aurelius.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
This is Marcus Aurelius reappearing to proclaim that Truly Significant
Conversations with big hearted people is a rare piece of literature.
This book reminds me of one of my more stirring quotes,
waste no more time arguing what a good man should
be be one. If you're stepping into your next life
(22:44):
chapter of your career and questioning what lies beyond success,
this book is for you. Dive into forty soul stirring
stories from luminaries like doctor Jane Goodall, Ed Asner, and
Emily Chain, stories that urge you to pursue purpose, serve others,
(23:06):
and build a legacy that outlasts you. Authored by Rick
TOLKINI Truly Significant will challenge your view of success and
ignite a life of impact. Order now at TinyURL dot
com backslash Truly significant and begin living intentionally. Maybe your
(23:29):
epitaph will.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Read she gave outrageously extended grace unceasingly and lived to
help others so that death found her empty.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Visit truly significant dot com and celebrate the most truly
significant people in your life with the truly significant community.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Out bold of.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
You to make your next chapter matter and be truly significant.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Okay, we have a section of most shows and we've
rebranded it as gut shots because I like rants, and
this is we are approaching our four thy, one hundredth podcasts.
I boring podcasts, So I want to create a gut
(24:20):
shot right now at AI on why it's positive and
why it's a drag.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
It's super positive because it takes the front end of
what's necessary in a brand project, just the accumulation of
data and knowledge about a certain market and marketplace, a
product of perception. Whatever you can enter, if you know
how to work out you could enter into it. You
can prompt engineering to get all that data. And I
used to spend months, sometimes on smaller projects, weeks getting
(24:53):
that data together with teams hiring people. I can get
that same data even better, even more thorough now with
AI in a matter of seconds, not minutes, seconds, and
then if I want to go deeper out further prompt engineering,
and it's just amazing. It's like having my own world
class research team in the palm of my hand. And
(25:16):
therefore stuff that used to really wear you out on
the front end doesn't anymore. You get that front end
stuff and you can spend that time as you were
talking earlier, you can spend that time creativity. You can
spend that time because great creativity. Sometimes it's bam, bam bam.
You hit hard and then forget about it for two weeks.
Take a hike in the mountains and all of a
sudden you're walking around and bam, it hits you. And
(25:37):
then then you go back to that data. But AI,
it's amazing, amazing. At the front end of a brand
project wouldn't work without it anymore, No way I would.
On the flip side, it is so easy for me
to read something say that's a that's A that's a II,
and I can't tell you and forgive me so many
other people. How many wankers there are out in the
(25:59):
market world call themselves marketing experts. They don't include what
marketing is. But they're good at TikTok or whatever. And
I'm not doubting the people to make millions on TikTok
or Facebook, but I respect that that's great, good, easy money.
But for your average product, your average company running normal
marketing program trying to get out and grow up business.
(26:20):
For somebody to come out with no expertise and no
experience because they can want to run one certain silo
of a social media app, call themselves marketing experts. Not.
One of my last episodes was Beware of marketing experts
And what's the first thing they do? Feed their stuff
into AI and here come the solutions. They're quite pardon me,
they're terrible. They're terrible solutions. And that one piece of
(26:44):
magic you need to make a brand coreat is not
going to be found on AI. Period. It's going to
come from that connectivity of all the things that smart
person knows, that wise person knows, that created person knows,
that can see a marketplace, see all the data, bring
it all the bear and see something that computer will
not see and name a brand, creative brand. Now, will
(27:07):
aiut and give you great ideas? Many times it will
will a outset the foundation. Absolutely, will it give you
the background, you bet, and once you nail that creativity
and that concept. And I've done this several times with
a few one off projects I've done the last five years.
Once I nail that creative and I go down and
feed that creative into AI. Basically, Okay, so I have
(27:29):
AI research. Then I go off, whether it's with a
team or myself or whatever, and come up with the creative,
the pluck, pluck viz viz. The I need that worked out,
the whatever that creative is, and then I'll feed it
back into the machine based on the research. The adbounished
strategy it gives me is frightening. It is absolutely frightening.
(27:49):
And so you put personal touches on that and put
polish on it, go to market a few days. It's amazing.
It's amazing how much it has expedited the brand concept
delivery system.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I'm real, it's so true. That is a great uh pro.
And con, I don't think I've heard anybody articulate it
quite like you. If Brad Kasper were on, he would say,
is AI going to be on that subway to see
shiny Japanese hair?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Exactly? No, No, I won't be looking at that it's
just those small things. It's why you know there are
some you actually come their own brand leader early on.
They may nail the name of their company or nail
the product, and they get everything right. And those aren't
Those do happen. Those do happen most of the time.
(28:41):
And this is in the book. It talks about in
my book, are the seven potholes that destroy branded light?
One of those potholes. One of those potholes. Because if
you think of brand alignment, think of lanes on the highway,
Think of cars standing in alignenment. Think if your car
is stand in alignment, four wheels, If everything's in enlightenment
in your brand, that car goes smoothly down right. If
(29:02):
one thing's out in alignment, that car rattis and rolls
in the tired work quickly in the axle, and you
just don't get the ride you need that you can
have with a fully ballast fully aligned car. So on
the flip side, we have a chapter called the Seven
Popolos the Degree of brand alignment. One of them is
an entrepreneur not being able to see the force for
the trees. They know their product so well that they
(29:25):
can't see where the magical brand needs to be. They
know it so well and they eat, sleep and drinking.
That's not a shortcoming. It's not a lack of knowledge,
and it's not a lack of effort. It's just somebody
that's experienced can come in see that in the matter
sometimes in seconds and know what the brand needs to
(29:46):
be sometime in a matter of seconds, and it's something
about maybe ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen years. But they're so
closer it they can't see the force for the tree.
So that's just one they're selling up them and to
the book brand On and go get it. Oh good
read all showing of.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Them way to go, Brandon. I'm going to spend the
last three or four questions with our special guest, Brandon Coleman,
author of brand On. But these are going to go
deeper and more philosophical. This latest book that we wrote,
Truly Significant, has a chapter in it on one of
(30:26):
our heroes, and park right next to doctor Jane Goodall
is a story on General Earl Rudder and Carl and
I went to visit Normandy and saw the cliffs that
he climbed with his team. Rudder Tower is the exact
(30:46):
same height as those cliffs, a little known to us
Aggie's and we saw a phrase that was there at Normandy.
I was saved for a purpose. That is the center
of this book. And as we celebrate celebrate truly significant
(31:07):
people that have big hearts, just like General Rudder today, Brandon,
how would you define success versus significance in your life?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, first and all, I'm not sure I get a
covey of book. Is it up on Amazon? Where? Grab it? Easy?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yes, sir, and I'll send you one. Just hang on afterwards,
I need to get your address.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
I'll do you a welcome. We both want all to
grab companies from old range. I know that, and I
I'd be honored, and I want to read it bad.
And I think significance is what it's all about. And
it's like God's got my purpose. And when you know
your purpose and then the significance lines up right behind it,
there's no doubt what you can be doing. I mean,
there are times when all of us, even once we
(31:50):
have Christ and serve our lives, we know we know
what our purpose is, and there are still times when
we're going to doubt. Still doesn't know? Okay, did I
wear that purpose out? Did that book is off got
or you still want me doing that, or you want
me doing something else. As a matter of fact, I
hadn't handled a brand project in two or three years.
It was just like I donulated anymore. I've got other
(32:10):
things going on. And God, just today these people trying
to get you write a book for twenty years, write
the book, And so I thought that's easy. So I
wrote the book. It's been about a year to writing
Zero Ai zero Ai in that book. But AI has
read my book now, so they've got me in there.
But as I'm going through, I realized that I've got
(32:32):
to read launch a whole marketing initiative. I've got to
build a website, I've got to put social I've got
to put a lot of things out there to make
it relevant to today's market or or I mean, guys
like you would appreciate it, people like others would appreciate it,
but it's not going to reach the masses the way
I've needed to the way I have. And so we
(32:52):
invest and we built this big campaign and photo shoots
and videos and on and on, which has been absolutely
as especially when there's no profit money at all. But
I knew to get that foundation and I can't say, hey, man,
I was really great at branding fifty years ago. That naught.
He gives a rat you know what about that? But
when you've been in it fifty years, we've got a
(33:14):
thousand classes and speak up for you. People will give
you a testimony and then you write the book. All
of a sudden, he're somebody. And so the way how
many to be able to witness better to share bass
LORI about off for Christ.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
And they find that.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Is to become more known and to get out there
and become a bestseller, to get it out there. So
I have those opportunities to share that message, and I
really really have. A good friend of ours is written
Warren number one selling author of all the time, number
one book purpose driven Life, and Kirie and I ended
up becoming Marybody. He and his team out at Salaback
Church in California because that book was at the core
(33:52):
of our relationship and the opening the line of that book,
Rick is it's not about you. And that's what drives
great significance is when you realize it's not about you,
and then you find what it is about for you,
what God's purposes for you, and then you drive it
it's also to me what drives great brands. Again, going
(34:12):
back to the very first question you asked about truth
about what drives a great brand, It's truth and that
truth needs to align with that significance. And when you do, Wow, man,
there is unlimited potential for a brand.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You go, you actually go into a different zone. And
if you listen to this show, really hear what Brandon
just said. A book is a mere platform. You're not
gonna get rich on your book.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I'm probably gonna lose probably gonna lose money.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah, you may lose money exactly. But Okay, So you
and I have had this a parallel path as Aggie's
and entrepreneurs and and now you've got this beautiful idea
with brand on as a platform to leverage your past
experience and wisdom. Why is it that we can't have
(35:10):
epiphany sooner than when we are Brandon Coleman seven point
h or Ricky Tokini's seven point oh versions. Why can't
How can we speed up epiphanies and get the next
generation to jump on the bandwagon faster of being significant
more than successful?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
To me, it's a real long conversation. I think in
a day and time we're likes and thumbs up and
followings or how many are on your social to the
younger generation mean more than words. Well he's got two
million followers, he must be somebody. You've only got fourteen
thousand ors wrong with you. Think about that. I've got
(35:55):
two or three people that have just made kingpin differences
in my life and in the life loos around me. Okay,
Herb Thompson being alive. I don't need a million followers
to meet that one man, that one person. But you're
not going to convince the average millennial rigins or that
that's the case these days. And so you have to
(36:17):
become prominent enough that they want to look into you.
And those who have reached out to me, and I've
got some young people that have reached out to me,
they go, Hey, I know you're probably not going to
answer this text or this email or this LinkedIn. You're
probably never going to talk to me. But man, I
read your book and I've just got this, and I
picked up the phone and calling, and they're like poop
in their pants. They go, God, you're the author. I said, yeah,
(36:37):
what's up? Well, I got this, I got that, and
I've become dear friends said when they have, I got
several of them a mentor, and that, to me is
still awesome. But those kids have reached out of that
zone their parents raised that way, where they're courageous enough,
they're honest enough, they're daring enough to say, I'm going
to talk to that author. I don't want to find
out why. I don't want to find out what bay.
(36:57):
You know, when I was when it was running my front,
I was we were very blessed. I started it when
I was twenty four. By the time I was thirty
ballpark thirty one thirty two. One day I walk in
my office. I think I had about top fourteen employees
if we had thirty or forty clients, and we're doing
very well. I'm very blessed. But my secretary comes in
(37:18):
at three o'clock in the afternoon. She said, Brandon, you okay?
I said, wow, what do you mean? She said, well,
I came in at seven thirty this morning and you
were sitting there staring at the wall. And it's three
o'clock and you're still sitting there staring at the wall.
You haven't taken one call, you've never left the office,
you haven't got a cup of coffee and no one
has seen you all day. Shit, really, she said, yeah.
(37:43):
I went, Wow, I better get out of here. And
I don't know why, but I went to the bookstore.
I went to a barn and Noble, got me a
cup of coffee and she started walking around. Okay, God,
what's going on? And back then, my first rction was
go to self out books. And there was a book
called The Paradox of Success and it was written in
(38:04):
the eighties by John R. O'Neill, who was the president
of the California School of Psychiatry, brilliant man. And the
book was interviewing people who've made lots of money and
been very successful, but it wasn't about the success. It
was about their failures. And it was so awesome. And
I'm reading through it. I mean, I just I was
(38:26):
all thirty fourth kidn of coffee. I wasn't going to
leave Barnes and Noble and I'm down and I get
to chapter seven and it was called The Personal Retreat. Well,
I don't know about you, guys Frock and Gambley, but
us entrepreneurs in the seventies, eighties, nineties, if we ever
left the office for a quote trip, whether it was
(38:46):
two days or a week, we took somebody with us.
It was the wife, wife and kids, clients. Friend. You
never waited anywhere by yourself. That was unheard of, and
it wasn't even manly. But this book. What he said was,
if you're a hard charge it I'm from me or
her top flying executive is big corp, you need a
minimal of one week a year away alone. And I'm like,
(39:11):
who the hell does that? I didn't know anybody person
ever done it back then. Nobody did. And I'm sitting
there going God, just the sound of that sounds good.
I mean, I worried for three kids. I fourteen ploys,
I had clients, I was serving on boards, I was
doing charity stuff for school districts and just want to
just going nuts. And I realized I was frozen out.
(39:34):
And so I'm reading this book and I'm like, come on, dude,
how am I going to get a day of way,
much less a week. So I picked up the phone
and called the California School Asukay and I got to
the secretary and I said, man, I need to speak
to President John R.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
Neil.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
She said Masson's call. I said, yep, he does not
have a clue. I am. I am Brandon Coleman Jr.
And I have chapter seven of his book and I
need him. She said, hold on. He picks up the phone,
goes Brandon, how are you doing today? I said, well,
better now that you're on the phone. But I don't
have a clue or a week away by myself, a paylike,
(40:11):
but I feel like I needed Where do you go?
So he starts talking to me about the whole thing,
and he said, I'm going to recommend a place to
your name, Canyon Ranch and two sun Arizona. It was
at the time number one world retreat spa of health, mind, body, spirit, exercise, workout,
great food kind of place. And he said, I know
the chaneral well malsucker. This is one part forty years ago.
(40:34):
And I said, wow, I'll go soon. He said no, no, no, no,
it's a three month wait. He said. Celebrities use it,
Hollywood athletes, business people. You can't get in, he said,
But here's what I want you to do. Just book
a flight to two sun Arizona for tomorrow, go home
(40:55):
tonight and tell your wife you're going away for a week.
She'll probably be happy. And get on that airplane and
show up. There would be somebody the airport with a
sign on your name. I'm like, mes, I'll handle it.
So I did what he said, just blind, got on
a plane to two cent Arizona. Showed up with my
(41:16):
bag in my hand. Guy Will sitting there, said Brandon,
call him my honey. Dan took me in my room.
It was a light there's a light beat dig in
my room. On the phone. Back in the days they
did that kind of stuff. I pick up the phone.
It was recording. This is the chairman, Belzuckerman's assistant administrative assistant,
and he would like to see you at three thirty
the Center in his office. I'm not wait a minute.
(41:36):
I'm getting my place, got a three month wait list,
and I'm meeting with the chairman on the first day.
This is the coop. So I go meet with me
and tells me the whole story of how and why
he started the place based on his father's death bed,
blah blah blah blah blah. And that place changed my life.
And I went there every year for one week by
myself for forty years, and on occasion I would I
(42:00):
had an extra trip and do team building and take
em ployise on occasionally have an extra trip and take
my wife. But I never missed the mighty here my
week because the of the deep meaning it gave me
in the ability to reload creative and to open up
the senses and to see where I was making mistakes
and theirs and get closer to God and just just
all the above. As a matter of fact, it's kind
(42:21):
of ironic. Carrie and I right now we're considering a
home there for a better part of the year, along
in our residents in Texas. So great place. But the
point list is I was a kid and I needed help,
and I read the book and I reached out and
Rick the Key or Brandy call me or John dal
(42:43):
and I picked upon so hey, can you help me?
And it's amazing because most authors will because they wrote
a book for a purpose. Most of them didn't write
it to make money. Most of them wrote it because
they want to share it. And you'd be surprised somebody
were willing to talk to you or at least email
you and give you some advice. Oh, I think it's
a it's a fun picture.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Beautiful picture. It's it's a great way to wrap up
the show. I think that there's so much value in
the number forty and maybe that was your walk in
the desert. And people need time, people need there on
time and people listening today, kids, you not. I want
you to start thinking about the number forty, not because
(43:27):
it's in the Bible or it's Jesus related. It is
a It is a number that's of great significance. And
there you land on forty years of it. People need
time to rest and rediscover their faith in God. I'm convinced.
But if you don't stop, you'll never know.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Right well, you do need to stop, and it helps you,
you know. Gratitude to me is a huge word in
the world's braining of whole life. And I just think
when you have time away, your gratitude for all those
around really true spouse, friend, your buddy's, your kids, your coworkers,
and your and your savior just just grow EXPONENTI that
(44:10):
we have time to stop, especially today's generations got their
finger on the phone all the time.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
That's exactly right, Brandon. It's been a joy to talk
to you again, and I look forward to staying in
touch with you, maybe see you at a game this
coming fall. And what a pleasure it is, And congratulations
on your gift of significance called brand On.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
I appreciate you, congratulations of your success. Mean, I've got
a podcast called The brand Arm Show, and I think
I'm in my forty eighth episode and felt like I
was doing pretty good because they said I passed all
the boss Stones and most people here you are. How
mean have you done on them? Half a million of
them or something like that? How many knows? It? Does that?
Speaker 1 (44:57):
The number doesn't matter and it's about what if you
found the right one person, not the one million first?
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Well, that's that's so very true. But the fact that
you have consistently delivered that thing and talked to so
many awesome people, I mean, that's that's exciting stuff. So
congratulations on that.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
Thanks for joining us, And make sure and buy Brandon's
book A brand On on Amazon today and write a
review about it too. That does matter. Okay.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
We love you, guys, best to you and your lovely
wife and your family.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Folks, we hope that you have a great week and
we wish you success, but on your way to significance,
have a good one.
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