July 27, 2025 • 42 mins
Alternate Current Radio and 21st Century Wire present: Sunday Wire with Patrick Henningsen
This week the SUNDAY WIRE broadcasts on Alternate Current Radio, as host Patrick Henningsen is covering the top stories internationally – with special guest, Arnaud Develay, author of Foreign Entanglements: Ukraine, Biden & the Fractured American Political Consensus, with a focus on the coming ouster of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. All this and more…
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This month’s featured music artists:
This week the SUNDAY WIRE broadcasts on Alternate Current Radio, as host Patrick Henningsen is covering the top stories internationally – with special guest, Arnaud Develay, author of Foreign Entanglements: Ukraine, Biden & the Fractured American Political Consensus, with a focus on the coming ouster of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy. All this and more…
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this week's edition of
The Sunday Wire. I'm your host, Patrick Kenningson. We're streaming
out live on the alternate current radio network at twenty
first century wire dot com. We're live on x Rumble Bitch, Shoot, YouTube,
Facebook Live, and also on the audio streams after the
program iTunes, Spotify, the other fine podcasting broadcast networks. Again,
(00:48):
thank you for joining us. My name is Patrick Keenningks.
We've got a special guest, r. No Devil, a political consultant,
author and also geopolitical analysts. We're going to be discussing
this is situation with Ukraine, but more specifically the downfall,
the imminent downfall of Zelenski. All the writing is on
(01:09):
the wall, the signals are all there. We're going to
talk about that. It's going to be a short episode today.
We're not going to be able to do the overdrive
segment because of another commitment we have after the program.
But this will be a very informative segment, I assure you,
and this is very important because this could change the
trajectory of the uk Ukraine conflict full stop. And also
(01:32):
it's going to possibly change the European calculus because everyone
is all in. Everyone has poured everything into Zelenski as
the sort of figurehead of this proxy war. When he goes,
are things going to remain the same or we're going
into a different phase To discuss this and the nuances
(01:54):
around it, very important conversation is Arno devil A's joining
us on the live right now. Arnold, thank you for
joining us on the Sunday Wire this week. Hello Patrick,
how are you very well?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Very well?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
And Arnold, we just want to bring the attention of
our listeners here to the current situation we're calling this
downfall now, before we get into the particulars here, what
is your current feeling or what is the current feeling
(02:28):
in Moscow on the future of Zelensky. I know he's
a problem. He's been a kind of an obstacle for
the Kremlin. They've said many times, we can't really sign
anything significant if this is the guy signing it, because
they said he's kind of expired, he's out of mandate.
He can't really author any sort of major negotiations anyway.
(02:52):
What's the feeling on Zelensky right now?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Well, pretty much as you just said it. I mean,
first of all, a n ski Is has reached his
date of perumption as far as the Ukrainian presidential election
having been somewhat canceled, and so for the time being
(03:19):
we could say that there is no president per se.
There is a constitutional provision which allows for the president
of the Rada the parliament, to handle current affairs until
an election is held, but that constitutional provision obviously was
never followed through, so we find ourselves in this kind
(03:41):
of legal in broglio, this kind of bluepoole, and in
the in the context of negotiations, obviously that that creates
a problem because we're negotiating with someone who is not
ability to negotiate and even less to sign any kind
of paperwork. So, to make a long story short, this
is putting the problem and I'm not even going to
(04:01):
get into the substance of the negotiation obviously, because what's
the point to negotiate with someone who cannot, even withnt
even ability to sign any papers. So that means that
the Istanbul cycle essentially for the time being, focuses on
humanitarian issues, but in no way gets into territorial issues,
(04:27):
the status of Ukraine out of Netro, because that's one
of the core Russian demands and the rights of the
Russian speaking minorities. So right now, what we've been hearing
for the last few months is this this trope of
(04:48):
a ceasefire. But again, Russia has no incentive to conclude
a ceasfire under any conditions short of a union ATel
withdrawal from Ukrainian troops out of the administrative borders of
the four new subject of the Russian Federation, the four
(05:08):
regions which are avoided by referendum in September twenty twenty
two to join the Russian Federation. So this is where
we are right now. Essentially, it's it's kind of a deadlock.
And I would add that it's been very complicated to
even get Zelensky to play ball, even in thus far
(05:30):
as pretending to want to negotiate anything. You know, we
understand the Americans have been somewhat urging him to, you know,
to play along. But now today the guy seems to
be doing a So another three sixty for Anabella bog
(05:52):
but one eight where he's saying, you know, he's willing
to meet Putin and da da da discuss all that
needs to be discussed. But again on the Russian side,
We're somewhat very reserved about it. There's no point, you know,
to give him political credibility by posing on a type
of a photo within. So you know, that's that's the
(06:16):
situation in Moscow right now. And meanwhile, the Russian Army
is advancing steadily inexorably with a key military capture in
the region of Poor Crofts, which happened a lot in
recent weeks, with gigantic cauldrons forming around those key nodes,
(06:40):
which you know, once they are neutralized as a as
a hub, that will spell big trouble for the Ukrainian
armed forces and could open the way for a rush
to the near Provo Plethrovsk region. So this is where
this is where we are now as far as the
(07:02):
general context, this concern now what brings us to discuss
the situation today in as far as the alleged downfall
of Zelensky he hasn't gone yet. Is this kind of
out of the blue shot across the bow going back
(07:26):
to July sixteenth, when he decided to basically bring those agencies,
the NABU and Supple agencies under the control of the
Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine. So obviously for years, Zelensky
(07:46):
has been pretty much doing as he wishes as he
sees feet, whether to protect his acolytes to outlaw parties,
essentially rendering this this democratic uh uh theater completely completely
bereft of any kind of uh exterior signs of it.
(08:10):
He's been going after the Ukrainian church, uh and he's
been essentially pilfering you know ed coming from the US,
but not only without much more of a of an
eyebrow being raised in the West. So the question is
there are two questions, is why did he decide to
(08:33):
do what he did and why did he decide to
do it now? And that's bring that brings us to
what my book you know essentially talked about, which is
the the origins of Russia Gate and who handled Russia Gate,
who uh acted under the coordination of the Ukrainian Embassy
(08:59):
in Washington and the US Embassy in Kiev to engineer
this this this political machination against at the time, the
then Trump campaign director Paul Manafort, who by all account
was doing a very good job. Because we if we
(09:21):
rewind the situation back in July twenty sixteen, Trump was
doing very well in the polls and obviously a lot
of it was attributed to Matterfort's performance as campaign director.
So I guess it was decided in the upper echelon
that they had to go after someone who could undermine
(09:46):
Trump's bid and create the predicate, you know, lay the
ground for what was going to become the Russia Gate saga,
which and being it wants to a lot of people
who think that the whole thing ended when Robert Mueller,
then a special prosecutor, released his report, compounded by the
(10:10):
report by John Durham, actually had an echo during the
twenty twenty election. And this is something that's being said
openly by someone like Alexander Dubinski, who was very close associate,
former associate of Zelenski. And as we all recall, the
(10:32):
laptop Antibiden's laptop, which contained a lot of incriminating evidence
bearing on conflict of interest and mbeazselment and all those
kind of things, was somewhat deemed to be a Russian
not disinformation, but misinformations. People would have it these days.
And we know that Tony B. Lincoln, who served then
(10:56):
as a Biden campaign director. So this did no less
than fifty one former and all current senior intelligence officials
to sign a letter attesting that the laptop was.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
All made up.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Essentially, So there is twenty sixteen, but there's also twenty twenty,
and one might argue there's also twenty twenty four because
we have a good reason to believe that the Trump
campaign was being monitored over the telephone doing their communication
by the incumbent administration. So it's an ongoing saga. It's
(11:33):
a continuing crime, so to speak. There's no statute of
limitation set in stone on this whole thing. But to
be sure, and going back to the key premise here,
Nabu and Sappo played an instrumental role on the ground
there and trying to have that case stick to Matterford
(11:55):
So one would think because they were US instrumentality is
they were not agencies that were indigenous to Ukraine. They
were creation, pure creation of the US colonial new colonial masters.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So speak, let me.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Just interrupt you briefly, so people who aren't familiar with
Nabu and Sappo, if you can give some background on that.
These are two anti corruption agencies set up when let's
say the United States had full, you know, viceroy control
over the post maidan Ukrainian state. Everything was being run
(12:31):
out of the US embassy, and they created these so
called anti corruption agencies here to kind of monitor what
was going on some say ARNO, to protect the real
criminals and to stop any potential real corruption investigations, to
kind of put the kabash on it. They created these
really run by the US, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
It's all about this direction. It's basically to neutralize either
people associated with the former regime or people will be
tempted to start criticizing the new state of affairs in Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Mm hm, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So so, so now you have these two agencies and
suddenly Zelenski has announced a couple of weeks ago that
he's going to take them and move these previously independent
anti corruption agencies under the Prosecutor General's office under his control, right.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Right, I mean, so Zelensky is being these engineers because
he's saying, essentially, we're just making sure that each are
going to have an office within the building of the
Prosecutor General's office. But you know, nobody gets fooled by this.
I mean, obviously the idea is to have someone appointed
by Zidinsky to oversee those two those two agencies now,
(13:53):
but now we have actually, uh, we have a new
development because while Zelensky looked dead set on doing what
he ended up doing initially, now seemingly he's having misgivings
and acting as if he's trying to reassure some people.
I don't know which one one could surmise that they
(14:17):
are actually contradictory injunctions, putting Zelensky in a vice here,
putting in between a rock and a hard place. Just when,
for internal reason, the Trump administration decides to revive the
Russia Gate, Uh, we have we have Zelenski suddenly, even
(14:42):
though he's not remotely connected to what goes on in
the US political scene, domestic political scene, decides to somewhat
act as if he's trying to cover for what a
faction and tied from faction matter been trying to cover.
(15:03):
And so they basically give him, you know, the instruction
to go after those agencies, not as much to bring
them into some kind of conformity, but to make sure
that you know, in their archives or to the extent
there are still some employees who might have been participating
in the Busher Gate. Those people and all those materials
(15:25):
are either under control and or somewhat vaporized, eliminated, So
that could be that could be an explanation, and that
seems even more plausible again because now Zelenski is basically saying,
you know, we intend to preserve the independence. You know,
(15:45):
we're going to pass a new law, but the independence
of those organs is going to be maintained. But no
one is being fooled by this. And what's even more
interesting is that now you have seventy members and piece
of his own party are somewhat uh showing reticence to
sign the bill owing to you know, some statements made
(16:08):
by the head of Sapple who uh declared a couple
of days ago that he was intending to go over
the record of those who voted in favor of the
new law and look into their respective background. So it's
almost like, you know, behind the curtain where we are
(16:31):
somewhat guessing the presence of two you know, one irresistible
force and one in a movable object. But there's something
does not make any sense at all, uh for someone
who got away with murder literally suddenly to be somewhat
you know, uh finding himself at the center of a
(16:54):
configuration that he really resembles. Might then the original man
who you know. To be sure, we'll have to wait
and see if those movements of social movement, those public
protests are sustained over in time. We know they've been
spreading to a few towns in Ukraine. But you know,
(17:16):
you would think that the motivation behind mass protests against
this regime would be something dealing with families trying to
recover the corpses of their dear ones, because we know
that there's been a game going on in the wake
of the andover of the fallen soldiers Ukrainian fallen soldiers.
(17:40):
There are now reports that families cannot get their hands
on their on their dear ones, even though they know
for a fact that the corpses are back in Ukraine.
But no corpses, no conpensation. So this would be actually
a good reason for them to mobilize our masks and
occupy the minand for as long as it takes until
(18:02):
they get their corpss back. But no, what we have
is people sort of leave fitting oh, corruption, corruption. Suddenly
you have people there that are so concerned about corruption
that they would want to preserve US installed organs, as
if those could be counted on to weed out the corruption.
(18:22):
In Ukraine. So this whole thing makes no sense whichever
way we do get it. And I surmise that there's
a connection to Russia Gate obviously, and some pushback from
those who maniflavorable in it.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
So I want to ask you, Arnold, is the timing
of this. We see Tulsi Gabbard the d n I
here she is with Caroline Levitt, Trump's spokesmodel, White House
spokes model, and so so this is coming out at
the same time the Epstein scandals being covered up, and
a lot of a lot of people are skeptical about
(18:59):
this rebooting of Russia Gate at the very moment. Obviously,
it has a great partisan traction with Fox News and
so forth, because it's Obama back in the crosshairs Brennan,
all of the old nemesiss of Trump in the crosshairs,
James Clapper and James Comy, etc. Is do you think
(19:21):
those are credible accusations that this revising Russia Gate now
is to take attention off of Epstein and Gaza for
that matter, because the tide is turning a public opinion
against Israel in the US's role in the genocide in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
What are your thoughts on that, well, I.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Would say yes and no, yes, because obviously this is
a life story. He's been a life story for the
last almost ten years now, and it is such a live,
such magnitude on the American people.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I mean, we lost our no for a moment there.
We're going to try to bring him back. Having some
audio issues on the connection. We're coming over a few
thousand miles of underwater cables, so we'll try to bring
him back momentarily. We'll just wait a moment as we
(20:19):
reboot his connection. But yeah, that's the big question. Is
Russia Gate being revitalized in order to take attention off
of all these other absolutely smoldering scandals that are threatening
to fracture and damage the MAGA movement Trump's base. Basically,
(20:39):
it's a legitimate question because a lot of people are saying, well,
there's nothing new here in the sort of Russia Gate
file at all.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
There's nothing.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
There might be some you know, some more sort of
you know notes that have been unearthed. We will show
you some slides and some evidence that's been circulating on
x with some of the big influence or influential accounts.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
But you know the gist of that story.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
The meat of that story has really been exposed for
quite some time, so it's not really a revelation. They
might have a few more receipts, but how could it
garner the type of impact that you would have with
a scandal like the Epstein scandal, for instance. I think
we've got Arnaut back here. We're going to bring him up, Arno,
(21:29):
can you hear us? Yeah? I think he's still working
on his audio, so we'll try to We'll try to
bring Arno back as soon as he has his audio
sort it out. So this raises a lot of interesting questions.
We'll bring some of those images up on screen so
(21:49):
we can have a look.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Here. Here's one of them. So this is a tweet here.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So the SBU has started persecuting protesters opposing Zelensky's crackdown
on NABU and SAPU. So this is interesting. So the
Ukrainians are skeptical of what Zelenski is trying to do here.
Zelensky is sort of pulling in Netanyahu. He's basically doing
a power grab, an executive power.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Grab here in order to who knows.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
There's probably a lot of money leaking out right now
as we're looking at the downfall of Zelenski. A lot
of people are packing duffel bags full of cash and pilfering,
skimming whatever. And so here's a veteran here was summoned
for our army. Veteran Dimitro Olinki was summoned for interrogation.
(22:44):
He was threatened with criminal charges and accused of acting
quote in the enemy's interests. So by protesting Zelenski, according
to the Zelensky regime, is working in the interests of Russia. Okay, honestly,
you couldn't make it up. So athorities are spreading claims
that he is a fake soldier, so basically trying to
steal his valor as well. Let's see if we can
(23:07):
bring Arnaud back for a moment here, Arnold, can you
hear us?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yes, it's all good. Again, it's very strange just when
you stop talking about certain issues.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, you know, yeah, well there's there's some distance between us, granted,
going across the Iron curtain. Obviously the iron curtains fallen
on the West, as we know. But so this this, here,
here's a veteran soldier. As I was telling our our audience,
Arno being basically maligned and and you know, smeared and
(23:39):
defamed by Zelensky government for protesting against Zelensky. So it's
it's quite extraordinary. So it's kind of desperate authoritarian measures here.
It's almost, you know, getting vibes of the final days
in the bunker with Uncle Adolph Mike bens and there's
just a cat. Mike Benz does not comment on Israel.
(24:03):
He just doesn't. So he keeps himself busy with Ukraine
and everything else, but he absolutely will not touch or
comment or say anything. That's my beef with Mike Ben's.
He's good on a lot of issues, but obviously he
can't speak about Gaza or Israel. But he's saying here
citing alleged the approval of Hillary Clinton on July twenty
(24:24):
eighth of a proposal from one of her foreign policy
advisers to vilify Donald Trump by stirring up a scandal
claiming interference by Russian Security Services. CIA director John Brennan
three months before Rushigate. We kind of knew all this
before r NO, and that's my question. Yeah, there's a
few interesting receipts here, but none of this is new information,
(24:49):
not really. But yet here we see the broad based
effort from MAGA from all the allies of Trump to
really push this hard right now, What do you make
of this again? Is this a distraction from the other
incredible scandals that are destroying MAGA?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Well, I think obviously the what's the expression the answer
is in the pudding or something like this. Yes, obviously
it's it's connected. It's a it's a it's a counterflare
to the Epstein uh, the Epstein affair and the Epstein
files in which Trump's name is rumored to figure. Now
(25:32):
in what capacity, we don't know. What we know is
d o J. I sent someone to visit Maxwell, and
she's shown herself to be very cooperative to such extent
that we are now White House White House insiders alluding
to the possibility of issuing a pardon to to Maxwell
(25:52):
down the road you called up.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
She solicited the d o J. She initiated communication with
the DJ. Is she in the driving seat here to
write her ticket out? Because she could give them nothing
and still write her exit ticket. I mean, she's in
a really powerful position with this candle the press, Trump
(26:17):
wanting to kind of wash it off. Maxwell can write
her ticket out, Yes, but.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I think just remaining Mum might not be enough. It
might be asked for her to politically lean in a
certain direction so as to sort of releasing everything and
let the public judge. You know, have someone who my
whole account was at the center of the whole the
whole thing basically say yeah, you know, I'll our account
(26:47):
for X, Y and Z. But you know, ABC in
thus far as Trump is concerned, there's nothing to be
seen here. And people will say, but what did you
get in exchange to somewhat exonerate Trump? She will say, well, nothing, nothing,
I'm just telling the truth because that's basically, you know,
one of the conditions for me to consider getting favorable
(27:11):
treatment or early release. She won't mention the P word,
you know, she'll leave it out, you know, for Trump
on this way out to do it. But I guess
that's the idea is like, if you play ball with us,
we'll put you in a special treatment until the end
of the current term and will take care of you
the way you take care of us. And we can
(27:33):
even set you up on ABC or CBS or some
kind of primetime networks. And whoever is assuming Barbara Walter's
job these days, you know, that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
To have a podcast to a podcast.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Okay, back to Zelensky, let's bring this back here. So
Russia Gate moving pretty swiftly here, and so this is
really I think in a way, this is going to
damage Zelensky because his legitimacy is predicated on, you know,
the fact that this is somehow a democratic government in Kiev,
(28:09):
and the Madan was a peaceful revolution of dignity and
all this other carry on, and that Trump and the
Russians were up to no good. I mean, a lot
of Democrats still believe this here. But the timing of
this our note is just incredible because uh, Zelenski is
on the way out, and it certainly looks like he is.
He's making all the moves of somebody that is in
(28:30):
his desperate last throws of power. Okay, So the question is,
if Zelenski is on the way out, who is going
to replace him? That is the big question. Here's Matt
Tayebi here basically saying John Brennan, FORMERCI director, is a
C minus brain who thinks he's an A plus. Remember
(28:54):
his written notes about the Clinton campaign proposal to stir
up Trump Russia controversy in the summer of twenty six
opened that avenue of inquiry as well. Intelligence Director John
Brennan subsequently briefed Obama and other senior national security officials
on the intelligence, including the alleged approval by Hillary Clinton
(29:15):
on July twenty six, twenty sixteen, of a proposal from
one of her foreign policy advisers to vilify Trump. So
we knew all this, I mean, this goes and this
carries straight into the Russian hack hoax, the DNC hack,
then implicating Julie Nissange as somehow working with the Russians,
(29:35):
the Podesta emails and so forth, and so they brought
in the Russia angle to basically snag Assange, and then
the fake DNC Russian hack story which was used also
to escalate this, and then right to Spygate with George Papadopoulos.
Paiza warrants were issued. All of a sudden, the Obama's
(29:57):
got the FBI spying on the Trump transition team, and
then you had Manafort. Basically, as Arnaut was saying before,
Paul Manifort, Trump's former campaign director, taken down with this
Ukrainian scam that what they called the Black Ledger. This
is all serialized in Arnot's book, and so Betsy Ross
(30:22):
interesting title for Twitter account. Was he dumb enough to
put all that in his book?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Kuaw? He really must have thought he was invincible.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
They're talking about John Brennan yet not the brightest ball
in the box. John Brennan, as we knew from the
leaked emails, he has some very weird proclivities. So while
this is going on, So now, if there's if there's
a if there's a Zelenski oulster that's imminent, if there's
(30:50):
a Zelensky owster that's imminent, then who is going to
replace Zelenski. We speculated on this back in January. We
were looking at all the various potential candidates. Petro Porschenko
was pouring his hat in the ring Alexei Arrestovich doing
the podcast circuit in the United States. He was getting
(31:13):
a lot of play. But the one that we're really
looking at. We'll bring Arnaud back in a minute, because
it looks like we have our connection with Arno. But
this is the guy that is more likely is the
former commander in chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, very
much linked to the Neo Nazi battalions, an extremist, a
(31:33):
war criminal by some people's estimation. Valerie z Iluzhni, who
was then whisked off to London and given elocution lessons,
thrown a nice suit on him. They throw suits on
a lot of people these days, as we saw with
Syria anyway, and here he is, he's got his memoirs out,
(31:54):
He's now become a politician. So from Zelensky henchman in
the field to eloquent politician in a savage row suit.
That's Valerie's illusioning. The British are grooming him to replace Zelenski.
That's what we're being told from the people that we
know who are somewhat knowledgeable and close to these events
as well. Let's try to bring Arnaud back and get
(32:16):
his opinion on this. Arnault, So, if Zelensky is on
the way out, is it going to be z illusioning?
Is this a battle between the US and the British
about who's going to replace Zelensky? Because the British have
been grooming z Ilusi for quite a while now, with
the absolute intent that he was going to be parachuted
(32:38):
back to Kiev. This is what we've always believed, It's
what we've always been saying. What are your thoughts on
this the timing of all this, with Russia Gate coming,
Zelensky on the rocks, is this the opportune time for
an ouster.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Well, I think Zelusni was always next for the job.
But yes, as you are alluding to, I think the
Russia Gate flare up has accelerated the schedule. And obviously
this is becoming next to impossible now for you know,
(33:14):
the current political aartlage in Ukraine to remain you know,
viable politically. So yes, there might be a makeover. It's
not really a change, it's more like a makeover. And
you know, to the extent as illusion he is a
military man, he commands, uh, you know, some measure of
(33:35):
respect from the troops and to the extent he concedes
on some of the points that Russia is being a
damant about. It would not be perceived as somewhat betraying
his promises because he's he would be talking as a
military man who's caring for his for you know, human
(33:56):
lives and who acts responsibly, someone who understands those matters. Uh.
Some people, just for the form, just for sake of it,
might try to be grudging the so called counteroffensive, you know,
which was dismal failure. But this will be somewhat swept
under the road. But yes, the timing is everything. And
(34:19):
and I think the bridge no, I think the bridges
are working in coordination with the Americans against Yes, okay,
but you know it's just as Zelenski, as as you know,
outstate is welcome now, it's just it's just getting too complicated.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, so there's no.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
And actually x ilusionally could be coming in and maybe
doing the bidding of you know, the Trump and distruction
once is in office. It's possible as well.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know, so what we just got a couple of
minutes left, Arnold. The really important question is here if
Zelenski is out, and solution is in, what CANZULUTIONI do
with the current battlefield, with the current impasse. Is he
can to bring this thing to a negotiated settlement or
is he going to extend the proxy war? Which is
(35:07):
which will it be?
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Well, I think he's going to try to freeze the
situation first and foremost, so agree by and large to
Russian demands for ceasefire, viable cease fire, so he can
get a quick political win. You will be known as
the one who successfully extracted the ceasefire out of Russia,
and then they will be long protracted negotiation on the
(35:31):
substantive matters, with somewhat an agreement on the principle, but
nothing really settled, you know. In setting Stone per Se,
this idea is you know again, it's it's so the
mensical called playbook all over again or the Italy province.
(35:52):
You freeze the front line, you know, get yourself back
in shape and give it another shot in uh, you know,
five six, seven years. Okay, but they don't want to lose,
and they don't want to lose more than what they
already got because Russia is not gonna stop. So under
the current trajectory, with the current political personnel, Russia will
(36:15):
will basically accomplish the goals set out when the special
military or corrections started, which includes the lassification that means
regime change in Kiev. So to prevent that, they have
to give something tangible, something concrete, something that the Russian
can live with. And the illusioning comes in and does
(36:38):
just that. He again, as this is a military man now,
to be sure, he has a lot to answer, not
list of which you know, looking the other way. While
the retaliation battalions were reintegrated into the Ukrainian armed forces
and committing yet more war crimes. You know, he basically
(37:00):
condone it because he was the commander in chief, so
you know, the responsibility lies at his feet. But to
the extent he assumes the presidency quote end of quote,
at least until there are new elections, they will prop
him up. Washington will do what's necessary, and London will
do what's necessary to to make sure that he goes
(37:21):
from an interim figure to a modified president to fair elections,
or at least perceive that's fair, and you know that
that will do the trick. That's my that's my perception
of the you know, near term, a medium term situation.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Because that's what everybody wants to know. That's the big
the big question is where is this heading in the
short term and the near term. Of course, I think
that's quite a cynical and shrewd assessment on your part
that they want to pause this thing, rearm, regroup, and
then have another go in five or six years. By
(38:05):
the rhetoric we're hearing from Europe, from Britain, that does
sound very plausible. Ar No, so obviously not a great
option for the world, for the region, much less for Ukraine,
but for the.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
West probably it's the same as what we see in
West Asia. To be sure, you know, we go, we
have to go at it for twelve days. Nothing is settled.
All the protagonists remain keen on certain strategic agendas. Uh,
and so we just live to fight another day. But
(38:39):
this is the nature of this somewhat low fuel world
war that we are going through right now. We have
a flare ups and then we have periods of steel
you know, moments, until you know everybody is ready to
go and give it a shot again, go at it again.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Arnau Devilay, political consultant, also geopolitical analysts and author of
Foreign Entanglements Ukraine, Biden and the fractured American political consensus.
Thank you very much for joining us this week on
the Sunday Wire.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Thank you Patrick.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
There he goes, Ladies and Joe, and that is Arno
devil A. We'll be following more about this story. Obviously
we won't be able to do Overdrive this week because
of other commitments that we have to attend to right
after the show, but we thought it was really important
to bring this story to your attention. So very complex,
(39:41):
the inter workings of the Zelensky regime. But nonetheless it's moving.
Things aren't moving. There's going to be a change, a
surprise coming, maybe in the next few weeks, maybe quicker
than we think. Trump put a deadline on Russia to
sort of, you know, agree on some thing.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I think you give a fifty day deadline.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
What's coming at the end of fifty days, a surprise
attack or maybe Zelenski's out. We'll find out. We'll find out.
That's the big question everybody wants to know. Listen, I'm
Patrick henningson your host. Thank you for joining us. Thank
you guys for supporting the Midweek Wire, our new show
that's been getting some excellent traction. We had a great
segment with Freddy Ponton just on Wednesday. Those archives are
(40:24):
up at twenty first Centurywire dot com, as are the
Sunday Wire archives.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
We're here every.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Week live and direct twelve till three Eastern Standard time
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(41:02):
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and episode here at the Sunday Wire. We'll see you
guys when we see you. I hope you have a
(41:48):
great week. And by the way, by the way, we
have some new reports coming out on Monday, so watch
twenty first century wire dot com specially to do with
the situation in Gaza. There's also a new whistleblower with
this humanitarian tobacco that's going on, I want to call
it humanitarian, but the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. There's gonna be
(42:09):
some news coming and also I'll be also doing a
video report on this as well. We'll be broadcasting that
on our various platforms. Listen, that's all we've got time for.
Take care of you guys. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
All the best,
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this week's edition of
The Sunday Wire. I'm your host, Patrick Kenningson. We're streaming
out live on the alternate current radio network at twenty
first century wire dot com. We're live on x Rumble Bitch, Shoot, YouTube,
Facebook Live, and also on the audio streams after the
program iTunes, Spotify, the other fine podcasting broadcast networks. Again,
(00:48):
thank you for joining us. My name is Patrick Keenningks.
We've got a special guest, r. No Devil, a political consultant,
author and also geopolitical analysts. We're going to be discussing
this is situation with Ukraine, but more specifically the downfall,
the imminent downfall of Zelenski. All the writing is on
(01:09):
the wall, the signals are all there. We're going to
talk about that. It's going to be a short episode today.
We're not going to be able to do the overdrive
segment because of another commitment we have after the program.
But this will be a very informative segment, I assure you,
and this is very important because this could change the
trajectory of the uk Ukraine conflict full stop. And also
(01:32):
it's going to possibly change the European calculus because everyone
is all in. Everyone has poured everything into Zelenski as
the sort of figurehead of this proxy war. When he goes,
are things going to remain the same or we're going
into a different phase To discuss this and the nuances
(01:54):
around it, very important conversation is Arno devil A's joining
us on the live right now. Arnold, thank you for
joining us on the Sunday Wire this week. Hello Patrick,
how are you very well?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Very well?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
And Arnold, we just want to bring the attention of
our listeners here to the current situation we're calling this
downfall now, before we get into the particulars here, what
is your current feeling or what is the current feeling
(02:28):
in Moscow on the future of Zelensky. I know he's
a problem. He's been a kind of an obstacle for
the Kremlin. They've said many times, we can't really sign
anything significant if this is the guy signing it, because
they said he's kind of expired, he's out of mandate.
He can't really author any sort of major negotiations anyway.
(02:52):
What's the feeling on Zelensky right now?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Well, pretty much as you just said it. I mean,
first of all, a n ski Is has reached his
date of perumption as far as the Ukrainian presidential election
having been somewhat canceled, and so for the time being
(03:19):
we could say that there is no president per se.
There is a constitutional provision which allows for the president
of the Rada the parliament, to handle current affairs until
an election is held, but that constitutional provision obviously was
never followed through, so we find ourselves in this kind
(03:41):
of legal in broglio, this kind of bluepoole, and in
the in the context of negotiations, obviously that that creates
a problem because we're negotiating with someone who is not
ability to negotiate and even less to sign any kind
of paperwork. So, to make a long story short, this
is putting the problem and I'm not even going to
(04:01):
get into the substance of the negotiation obviously, because what's
the point to negotiate with someone who cannot, even withnt
even ability to sign any papers. So that means that
the Istanbul cycle essentially for the time being, focuses on
humanitarian issues, but in no way gets into territorial issues,
(04:27):
the status of Ukraine out of Netro, because that's one
of the core Russian demands and the rights of the
Russian speaking minorities. So right now, what we've been hearing
for the last few months is this this trope of
(04:48):
a ceasefire. But again, Russia has no incentive to conclude
a ceasfire under any conditions short of a union ATel
withdrawal from Ukrainian troops out of the administrative borders of
the four new subject of the Russian Federation, the four
(05:08):
regions which are avoided by referendum in September twenty twenty
two to join the Russian Federation. So this is where
we are right now. Essentially, it's it's kind of a deadlock.
And I would add that it's been very complicated to
even get Zelensky to play ball, even in thus far
(05:30):
as pretending to want to negotiate anything. You know, we
understand the Americans have been somewhat urging him to, you know,
to play along. But now today the guy seems to
be doing a So another three sixty for Anabella bog
(05:52):
but one eight where he's saying, you know, he's willing
to meet Putin and da da da discuss all that
needs to be discussed. But again on the Russian side,
We're somewhat very reserved about it. There's no point, you know,
to give him political credibility by posing on a type
of a photo within. So you know, that's that's the
(06:16):
situation in Moscow right now. And meanwhile, the Russian Army
is advancing steadily inexorably with a key military capture in
the region of Poor Crofts, which happened a lot in
recent weeks, with gigantic cauldrons forming around those key nodes,
(06:40):
which you know, once they are neutralized as a as
a hub, that will spell big trouble for the Ukrainian
armed forces and could open the way for a rush
to the near Provo Plethrovsk region. So this is where
this is where we are now as far as the
(07:02):
general context, this concern now what brings us to discuss
the situation today in as far as the alleged downfall
of Zelensky he hasn't gone yet. Is this kind of
out of the blue shot across the bow going back
(07:26):
to July sixteenth, when he decided to basically bring those agencies,
the NABU and Supple agencies under the control of the
Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine. So obviously for years, Zelensky
(07:46):
has been pretty much doing as he wishes as he
sees feet, whether to protect his acolytes to outlaw parties,
essentially rendering this this democratic uh uh theater completely completely
bereft of any kind of uh exterior signs of it.
(08:10):
He's been going after the Ukrainian church, uh and he's
been essentially pilfering you know ed coming from the US,
but not only without much more of a of an
eyebrow being raised in the West. So the question is
there are two questions, is why did he decide to
(08:33):
do what he did and why did he decide to
do it now? And that's bring that brings us to
what my book you know essentially talked about, which is
the the origins of Russia Gate and who handled Russia Gate,
who uh acted under the coordination of the Ukrainian Embassy
(08:59):
in Washington and the US Embassy in Kiev to engineer
this this this political machination against at the time, the
then Trump campaign director Paul Manafort, who by all account
was doing a very good job. Because we if we
(09:21):
rewind the situation back in July twenty sixteen, Trump was
doing very well in the polls and obviously a lot
of it was attributed to Matterfort's performance as campaign director.
So I guess it was decided in the upper echelon
that they had to go after someone who could undermine
(09:46):
Trump's bid and create the predicate, you know, lay the
ground for what was going to become the Russia Gate saga,
which and being it wants to a lot of people
who think that the whole thing ended when Robert Mueller,
then a special prosecutor, released his report, compounded by the
(10:10):
report by John Durham, actually had an echo during the
twenty twenty election. And this is something that's being said
openly by someone like Alexander Dubinski, who was very close associate,
former associate of Zelenski. And as we all recall, the
(10:32):
laptop Antibiden's laptop, which contained a lot of incriminating evidence
bearing on conflict of interest and mbeazselment and all those
kind of things, was somewhat deemed to be a Russian
not disinformation, but misinformations. People would have it these days.
And we know that Tony B. Lincoln, who served then
(10:56):
as a Biden campaign director. So this did no less
than fifty one former and all current senior intelligence officials
to sign a letter attesting that the laptop was.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
All made up.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Essentially, So there is twenty sixteen, but there's also twenty twenty,
and one might argue there's also twenty twenty four because
we have a good reason to believe that the Trump
campaign was being monitored over the telephone doing their communication
by the incumbent administration. So it's an ongoing saga. It's
(11:33):
a continuing crime, so to speak. There's no statute of
limitation set in stone on this whole thing. But to
be sure, and going back to the key premise here,
Nabu and Sappo played an instrumental role on the ground
there and trying to have that case stick to Matterford
(11:55):
So one would think because they were US instrumentality is
they were not agencies that were indigenous to Ukraine. They
were creation, pure creation of the US colonial new colonial masters.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So speak, let me.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Just interrupt you briefly, so people who aren't familiar with
Nabu and Sappo, if you can give some background on that.
These are two anti corruption agencies set up when let's
say the United States had full, you know, viceroy control
over the post maidan Ukrainian state. Everything was being run
(12:31):
out of the US embassy, and they created these so
called anti corruption agencies here to kind of monitor what
was going on some say ARNO, to protect the real
criminals and to stop any potential real corruption investigations, to
kind of put the kabash on it. They created these
really run by the US, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
It's all about this direction. It's basically to neutralize either
people associated with the former regime or people will be
tempted to start criticizing the new state of affairs in Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Mm hm, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So so, so now you have these two agencies and
suddenly Zelenski has announced a couple of weeks ago that
he's going to take them and move these previously independent
anti corruption agencies under the Prosecutor General's office under his control, right.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Right, I mean, so Zelensky is being these engineers because
he's saying, essentially, we're just making sure that each are
going to have an office within the building of the
Prosecutor General's office. But you know, nobody gets fooled by this.
I mean, obviously the idea is to have someone appointed
by Zidinsky to oversee those two those two agencies now,
(13:53):
but now we have actually, uh, we have a new
development because while Zelensky looked dead set on doing what
he ended up doing initially, now seemingly he's having misgivings
and acting as if he's trying to reassure some people.
I don't know which one one could surmise that they
(14:17):
are actually contradictory injunctions, putting Zelensky in a vice here,
putting in between a rock and a hard place. Just when,
for internal reason, the Trump administration decides to revive the
Russia Gate, Uh, we have we have Zelenski suddenly, even
(14:42):
though he's not remotely connected to what goes on in
the US political scene, domestic political scene, decides to somewhat
act as if he's trying to cover for what a
faction and tied from faction matter been trying to cover.
(15:03):
And so they basically give him, you know, the instruction
to go after those agencies, not as much to bring
them into some kind of conformity, but to make sure
that you know, in their archives or to the extent
there are still some employees who might have been participating
in the Busher Gate. Those people and all those materials
(15:25):
are either under control and or somewhat vaporized, eliminated, So
that could be that could be an explanation, and that
seems even more plausible again because now Zelenski is basically saying,
you know, we intend to preserve the independence. You know,
(15:45):
we're going to pass a new law, but the independence
of those organs is going to be maintained. But no
one is being fooled by this. And what's even more
interesting is that now you have seventy members and piece
of his own party are somewhat uh showing reticence to
sign the bill owing to you know, some statements made
(16:08):
by the head of Sapple who uh declared a couple
of days ago that he was intending to go over
the record of those who voted in favor of the
new law and look into their respective background. So it's
almost like, you know, behind the curtain where we are
(16:31):
somewhat guessing the presence of two you know, one irresistible
force and one in a movable object. But there's something
does not make any sense at all, uh for someone
who got away with murder literally suddenly to be somewhat
you know, uh finding himself at the center of a
(16:54):
configuration that he really resembles. Might then the original man
who you know. To be sure, we'll have to wait
and see if those movements of social movement, those public
protests are sustained over in time. We know they've been
spreading to a few towns in Ukraine. But you know,
(17:16):
you would think that the motivation behind mass protests against
this regime would be something dealing with families trying to
recover the corpses of their dear ones, because we know
that there's been a game going on in the wake
of the andover of the fallen soldiers Ukrainian fallen soldiers.
(17:40):
There are now reports that families cannot get their hands
on their on their dear ones, even though they know
for a fact that the corpses are back in Ukraine.
But no corpses, no conpensation. So this would be actually
a good reason for them to mobilize our masks and
occupy the minand for as long as it takes until
(18:02):
they get their corpss back. But no, what we have
is people sort of leave fitting oh, corruption, corruption. Suddenly
you have people there that are so concerned about corruption
that they would want to preserve US installed organs, as
if those could be counted on to weed out the corruption.
(18:22):
In Ukraine. So this whole thing makes no sense whichever
way we do get it. And I surmise that there's
a connection to Russia Gate obviously, and some pushback from
those who maniflavorable in it.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
So I want to ask you, Arnold, is the timing
of this. We see Tulsi Gabbard the d n I
here she is with Caroline Levitt, Trump's spokesmodel, White House
spokes model, and so so this is coming out at
the same time the Epstein scandals being covered up, and
a lot of a lot of people are skeptical about
(18:59):
this rebooting of Russia Gate at the very moment. Obviously,
it has a great partisan traction with Fox News and
so forth, because it's Obama back in the crosshairs Brennan,
all of the old nemesiss of Trump in the crosshairs,
James Clapper and James Comy, etc. Is do you think
(19:21):
those are credible accusations that this revising Russia Gate now
is to take attention off of Epstein and Gaza for
that matter, because the tide is turning a public opinion
against Israel in the US's role in the genocide in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
What are your thoughts on that, well, I.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Would say yes and no, yes, because obviously this is
a life story. He's been a life story for the
last almost ten years now, and it is such a live,
such magnitude on the American people.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
I mean, we lost our no for a moment there.
We're going to try to bring him back. Having some
audio issues on the connection. We're coming over a few
thousand miles of underwater cables, so we'll try to bring
him back momentarily. We'll just wait a moment as we
(20:19):
reboot his connection. But yeah, that's the big question. Is
Russia Gate being revitalized in order to take attention off
of all these other absolutely smoldering scandals that are threatening
to fracture and damage the MAGA movement Trump's base. Basically,
(20:39):
it's a legitimate question because a lot of people are saying, well,
there's nothing new here in the sort of Russia Gate
file at all.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
There's nothing.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
There might be some you know, some more sort of
you know notes that have been unearthed. We will show
you some slides and some evidence that's been circulating on
x with some of the big influence or influential accounts.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
But you know the gist of that story.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
The meat of that story has really been exposed for
quite some time, so it's not really a revelation. They
might have a few more receipts, but how could it
garner the type of impact that you would have with
a scandal like the Epstein scandal, for instance. I think
we've got Arnaut back here. We're going to bring him up, Arno,
(21:29):
can you hear us? Yeah? I think he's still working
on his audio, so we'll try to We'll try to
bring Arno back as soon as he has his audio
sort it out. So this raises a lot of interesting questions.
We'll bring some of those images up on screen so
(21:49):
we can have a look.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Here. Here's one of them. So this is a tweet here.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So the SBU has started persecuting protesters opposing Zelensky's crackdown
on NABU and SAPU. So this is interesting. So the
Ukrainians are skeptical of what Zelenski is trying to do here.
Zelensky is sort of pulling in Netanyahu. He's basically doing
a power grab, an executive power.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Grab here in order to who knows.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
There's probably a lot of money leaking out right now
as we're looking at the downfall of Zelenski. A lot
of people are packing duffel bags full of cash and pilfering,
skimming whatever. And so here's a veteran here was summoned
for our army. Veteran Dimitro Olinki was summoned for interrogation.
(22:44):
He was threatened with criminal charges and accused of acting
quote in the enemy's interests. So by protesting Zelenski, according
to the Zelensky regime, is working in the interests of Russia. Okay, honestly,
you couldn't make it up. So athorities are spreading claims
that he is a fake soldier, so basically trying to
steal his valor as well. Let's see if we can
(23:07):
bring Arnaud back for a moment here, Arnold, can you
hear us?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Yes, it's all good. Again, it's very strange just when
you stop talking about certain issues.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, you know, yeah, well there's there's some distance between us, granted,
going across the Iron curtain. Obviously the iron curtains fallen
on the West, as we know. But so this this, here,
here's a veteran soldier. As I was telling our our audience,
Arno being basically maligned and and you know, smeared and
(23:39):
defamed by Zelensky government for protesting against Zelensky. So it's
it's quite extraordinary. So it's kind of desperate authoritarian measures here.
It's almost, you know, getting vibes of the final days
in the bunker with Uncle Adolph Mike bens and there's
just a cat. Mike Benz does not comment on Israel.
(24:03):
He just doesn't. So he keeps himself busy with Ukraine
and everything else, but he absolutely will not touch or
comment or say anything. That's my beef with Mike Ben's.
He's good on a lot of issues, but obviously he
can't speak about Gaza or Israel. But he's saying here
citing alleged the approval of Hillary Clinton on July twenty
(24:24):
eighth of a proposal from one of her foreign policy
advisers to vilify Donald Trump by stirring up a scandal
claiming interference by Russian Security Services. CIA director John Brennan
three months before Rushigate. We kind of knew all this
before r NO, and that's my question. Yeah, there's a
few interesting receipts here, but none of this is new information,
(24:49):
not really. But yet here we see the broad based
effort from MAGA from all the allies of Trump to
really push this hard right now, What do you make
of this again? Is this a distraction from the other
incredible scandals that are destroying MAGA?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Well, I think obviously the what's the expression the answer
is in the pudding or something like this. Yes, obviously
it's it's connected. It's a it's a it's a counterflare
to the Epstein uh, the Epstein affair and the Epstein
files in which Trump's name is rumored to figure. Now
(25:32):
in what capacity, we don't know. What we know is
d o J. I sent someone to visit Maxwell, and
she's shown herself to be very cooperative to such extent
that we are now White House White House insiders alluding
to the possibility of issuing a pardon to to Maxwell
(25:52):
down the road you called up.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
She solicited the d o J. She initiated communication with
the DJ. Is she in the driving seat here to
write her ticket out? Because she could give them nothing
and still write her exit ticket. I mean, she's in
a really powerful position with this candle the press, Trump
(26:17):
wanting to kind of wash it off. Maxwell can write
her ticket out, Yes, but.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I think just remaining Mum might not be enough. It
might be asked for her to politically lean in a
certain direction so as to sort of releasing everything and
let the public judge. You know, have someone who my
whole account was at the center of the whole the
whole thing basically say yeah, you know, I'll our account
(26:47):
for X, Y and Z. But you know, ABC in
thus far as Trump is concerned, there's nothing to be
seen here. And people will say, but what did you
get in exchange to somewhat exonerate Trump? She will say, well, nothing, nothing,
I'm just telling the truth because that's basically, you know,
one of the conditions for me to consider getting favorable
(27:11):
treatment or early release. She won't mention the P word,
you know, she'll leave it out, you know, for Trump
on this way out to do it. But I guess
that's the idea is like, if you play ball with us,
we'll put you in a special treatment until the end
of the current term and will take care of you
the way you take care of us. And we can
(27:33):
even set you up on ABC or CBS or some
kind of primetime networks. And whoever is assuming Barbara Walter's
job these days, you know, that's it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
To have a podcast to a podcast.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Okay, back to Zelensky, let's bring this back here. So
Russia Gate moving pretty swiftly here, and so this is
really I think in a way, this is going to
damage Zelensky because his legitimacy is predicated on, you know,
the fact that this is somehow a democratic government in Kiev,
(28:09):
and the Madan was a peaceful revolution of dignity and
all this other carry on, and that Trump and the
Russians were up to no good. I mean, a lot
of Democrats still believe this here. But the timing of
this our note is just incredible because uh, Zelenski is
on the way out, and it certainly looks like he is.
He's making all the moves of somebody that is in
(28:30):
his desperate last throws of power. Okay, So the question is,
if Zelenski is on the way out, who is going
to replace him? That is the big question. Here's Matt
Tayebi here basically saying John Brennan, FORMERCI director, is a
C minus brain who thinks he's an A plus. Remember
(28:54):
his written notes about the Clinton campaign proposal to stir
up Trump Russia controversy in the summer of twenty six
opened that avenue of inquiry as well. Intelligence Director John
Brennan subsequently briefed Obama and other senior national security officials
on the intelligence, including the alleged approval by Hillary Clinton
(29:15):
on July twenty six, twenty sixteen, of a proposal from
one of her foreign policy advisers to vilify Trump. So
we knew all this, I mean, this goes and this
carries straight into the Russian hack hoax, the DNC hack,
then implicating Julie Nissange as somehow working with the Russians,
(29:35):
the Podesta emails and so forth, and so they brought
in the Russia angle to basically snag Assange, and then
the fake DNC Russian hack story which was used also
to escalate this, and then right to Spygate with George Papadopoulos.
Paiza warrants were issued. All of a sudden, the Obama's
(29:57):
got the FBI spying on the Trump transition team, and
then you had Manafort. Basically, as Arnaut was saying before,
Paul Manifort, Trump's former campaign director, taken down with this
Ukrainian scam that what they called the Black Ledger. This
is all serialized in Arnot's book, and so Betsy Ross
(30:22):
interesting title for Twitter account. Was he dumb enough to
put all that in his book?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Kuaw? He really must have thought he was invincible.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
They're talking about John Brennan yet not the brightest ball
in the box. John Brennan, as we knew from the
leaked emails, he has some very weird proclivities. So while
this is going on, So now, if there's if there's
a if there's a Zelenski oulster that's imminent, if there's
(30:50):
a Zelensky owster that's imminent, then who is going to
replace Zelenski. We speculated on this back in January. We
were looking at all the various potential candidates. Petro Porschenko
was pouring his hat in the ring Alexei Arrestovich doing
the podcast circuit in the United States. He was getting
(31:13):
a lot of play. But the one that we're really
looking at. We'll bring Arnaud back in a minute, because
it looks like we have our connection with Arno. But
this is the guy that is more likely is the
former commander in chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, very
much linked to the Neo Nazi battalions, an extremist, a
(31:33):
war criminal by some people's estimation. Valerie z Iluzhni, who
was then whisked off to London and given elocution lessons,
thrown a nice suit on him. They throw suits on
a lot of people these days, as we saw with
Syria anyway, and here he is, he's got his memoirs out,
(31:54):
He's now become a politician. So from Zelensky henchman in
the field to eloquent politician in a savage row suit.
That's Valerie's illusioning. The British are grooming him to replace Zelenski.
That's what we're being told from the people that we
know who are somewhat knowledgeable and close to these events
as well. Let's try to bring Arnaud back and get
(32:16):
his opinion on this. Arnault, So, if Zelensky is on
the way out, is it going to be z illusioning?
Is this a battle between the US and the British
about who's going to replace Zelensky? Because the British have
been grooming z Ilusi for quite a while now, with
the absolute intent that he was going to be parachuted
(32:38):
back to Kiev. This is what we've always believed, It's
what we've always been saying. What are your thoughts on
this the timing of all this, with Russia Gate coming,
Zelensky on the rocks, is this the opportune time for
an ouster.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Well, I think Zelusni was always next for the job.
But yes, as you are alluding to, I think the
Russia Gate flare up has accelerated the schedule. And obviously
this is becoming next to impossible now for you know,
(33:14):
the current political aartlage in Ukraine to remain you know,
viable politically. So yes, there might be a makeover. It's
not really a change, it's more like a makeover. And
you know, to the extent as illusion he is a
military man, he commands, uh, you know, some measure of
(33:35):
respect from the troops and to the extent he concedes
on some of the points that Russia is being a
damant about. It would not be perceived as somewhat betraying
his promises because he's he would be talking as a
military man who's caring for his for you know, human
(33:56):
lives and who acts responsibly, someone who understands those matters. Uh.
Some people, just for the form, just for sake of it,
might try to be grudging the so called counteroffensive, you know,
which was dismal failure. But this will be somewhat swept
under the road. But yes, the timing is everything. And
(34:19):
and I think the bridge no, I think the bridges
are working in coordination with the Americans against Yes, okay,
but you know it's just as Zelenski, as as you know,
outstate is welcome now, it's just it's just getting too complicated.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, so there's no.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
And actually x ilusionally could be coming in and maybe
doing the bidding of you know, the Trump and distruction
once is in office. It's possible as well.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
You know, so what we just got a couple of
minutes left, Arnold. The really important question is here if
Zelenski is out, and solution is in, what CANZULUTIONI do
with the current battlefield, with the current impasse. Is he
can to bring this thing to a negotiated settlement or
is he going to extend the proxy war? Which is
(35:07):
which will it be?
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Well, I think he's going to try to freeze the
situation first and foremost, so agree by and large to
Russian demands for ceasefire, viable cease fire, so he can
get a quick political win. You will be known as
the one who successfully extracted the ceasefire out of Russia,
and then they will be long protracted negotiation on the
(35:31):
substantive matters, with somewhat an agreement on the principle, but
nothing really settled, you know. In setting Stone per Se,
this idea is you know again, it's it's so the
mensical called playbook all over again or the Italy province.
(35:52):
You freeze the front line, you know, get yourself back
in shape and give it another shot in uh, you know,
five six, seven years. Okay, but they don't want to lose,
and they don't want to lose more than what they
already got because Russia is not gonna stop. So under
the current trajectory, with the current political personnel, Russia will
(36:15):
will basically accomplish the goals set out when the special
military or corrections started, which includes the lassification that means
regime change in Kiev. So to prevent that, they have
to give something tangible, something concrete, something that the Russian
can live with. And the illusioning comes in and does
(36:38):
just that. He again, as this is a military man now,
to be sure, he has a lot to answer, not
list of which you know, looking the other way. While
the retaliation battalions were reintegrated into the Ukrainian armed forces
and committing yet more war crimes. You know, he basically
(37:00):
condone it because he was the commander in chief, so
you know, the responsibility lies at his feet. But to
the extent he assumes the presidency quote end of quote,
at least until there are new elections, they will prop
him up. Washington will do what's necessary, and London will
do what's necessary to to make sure that he goes
(37:21):
from an interim figure to a modified president to fair elections,
or at least perceive that's fair, and you know that
that will do the trick. That's my that's my perception
of the you know, near term, a medium term situation.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Because that's what everybody wants to know. That's the big
the big question is where is this heading in the
short term and the near term. Of course, I think
that's quite a cynical and shrewd assessment on your part
that they want to pause this thing, rearm, regroup, and
then have another go in five or six years. By
(38:05):
the rhetoric we're hearing from Europe, from Britain, that does
sound very plausible. Ar No, so obviously not a great
option for the world, for the region, much less for Ukraine,
but for the.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
West probably it's the same as what we see in
West Asia. To be sure, you know, we go, we
have to go at it for twelve days. Nothing is settled.
All the protagonists remain keen on certain strategic agendas. Uh,
and so we just live to fight another day. But
(38:39):
this is the nature of this somewhat low fuel world
war that we are going through right now. We have
a flare ups and then we have periods of steel
you know, moments, until you know everybody is ready to
go and give it a shot again, go at it again.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Arnau Devilay, political consultant, also geopolitical analysts and author of
Foreign Entanglements Ukraine, Biden and the fractured American political consensus.
Thank you very much for joining us this week on
the Sunday Wire.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Thank you Patrick.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
There he goes, Ladies and Joe, and that is Arno
devil A. We'll be following more about this story. Obviously
we won't be able to do Overdrive this week because
of other commitments that we have to attend to right
after the show, but we thought it was really important
to bring this story to your attention. So very complex,
(39:41):
the inter workings of the Zelensky regime. But nonetheless it's moving.
Things aren't moving. There's going to be a change, a
surprise coming, maybe in the next few weeks, maybe quicker
than we think. Trump put a deadline on Russia to
sort of, you know, agree on some thing.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I think you give a fifty day deadline.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
What's coming at the end of fifty days, a surprise
attack or maybe Zelenski's out. We'll find out. We'll find out.
That's the big question everybody wants to know. Listen, I'm
Patrick henningson your host. Thank you for joining us. Thank
you guys for supporting the Midweek Wire, our new show
that's been getting some excellent traction. We had a great
segment with Freddy Ponton just on Wednesday. Those archives are
(40:24):
up at twenty first Centurywire dot com, as are the
Sunday Wire archives.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
We're here every.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Week live and direct twelve till three Eastern Standard time
eight till five UK time.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
The archives are there as well. If you miss any
of our shows.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
You also find us on the various platforms, and again,
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YouTube is throttling us so heavily. So like and subscribe
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(41:02):
one wire dot tv. We need more people on board
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We have a great team. We commission journalistic work and investigations.
We're also going to be covering some stories this week
as well, so again we need your help to make
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(41:26):
going since two thousand and nine, and yeah, we couldn't
do it without you, guys. We wouldn't be here without you, guys,
and we're going to need you guys to continue doing
what we do to go from strength to strength. I'm
Patrick Kenningson, your host. This has been an excellent report
and episode here at the Sunday Wire. We'll see you
guys when we see you. I hope you have a
(41:48):
great week. And by the way, by the way, we
have some new reports coming out on Monday, so watch
twenty first century wire dot com specially to do with
the situation in Gaza. There's also a new whistleblower with
this humanitarian tobacco that's going on, I want to call
it humanitarian, but the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. There's gonna be
(42:09):
some news coming and also I'll be also doing a
video report on this as well. We'll be broadcasting that
on our various platforms. Listen, that's all we've got time for.
Take care of you guys. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
All the best,
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