November 5, 2024 • 52 mins
Robin Corak is the author of "Dream Magick: Change Your Reality Through the Liminal World of Sleep" (Llewellyn, November 2024) and previous books entitled "Persephone" and "Demeter" She is a former member of the International Association for the Study of Dreams and has presented locally and at national conferences including Paganicon, the Water Priestess Confluence, and the Ninefold Festival (2019). A long time member of the Sisterhood of Avalon , Robin currently writes a blog for Agora Patheos entitled "Phoenix Rising". In addition to teaching workshops on a diverse array of metaphysical topics, she also offers services including Reiki, coaching, and tarot reading. Robin lives off the coast of Washington state in San Juan Island with her husband, Richard, and her cat, Kaia.
More information about Robin can be found on her website at www.phoenixawenrising.com
More information about Robin can be found on her website at www.phoenixawenrising.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Our angels, ghosts and Bigfoot. Oh my, it's just another
night for supernatural girls and real stories, real answers to
life's biggest supernatural mysteries. And now for another exciting interview
with paranormal experts from this world and others. Here's your host,
paranormal researcher Patricia Baker on the One the Only Supernatural Girls.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
We're going to take a look at what's been going
on now. We've got to remember this is a new month.
It's going to be all about our scorpio issues and
it's good for some people, not for everybody, but it's
a time of transformation and that's the thing we have
to pay attention to do. Scorpio teaches us how to
(01:10):
deal with the fears and fantasies that go on in
our life, so we have to take a look at
how to make it work better on our behalf for
a change. Once we're done with doing things that seem
to frighten us, we can put things aside and say, hey,
let's really take a look at what's going on. This
is a new month, new beginnings, and it is a
(01:32):
time when Scorpio is involved. It's a sign of death
as well. As rebirth, and it comes from the Sagittarius
aspect of the sign. So it has a lot to
teach us because we're releasing the old making way for
the new. And that's the hardest part for us is
to let go of what is. I always say, you know,
(01:53):
if you get this big bag alongside of you when
you're in the car to drive down the road, take
the things that have been bugging you of it in
the bag, drop the window, visualize yourself throwing it out.
Doesn't matter where it goes, Just don't take it home
with you. Enough is enough. Whatever your personal year that
you're in. Right now, everything seems to be doubling up
(02:15):
on us, and when we're dealing with this month, it
is a new beginning in many respects, but it teaches
us how to deal with the fears that we've had.
J always say the boogeyman, let go, let God. We're
in better shape doing it that way. Now, Remember that
(02:36):
the issues of the past arise this month because the
nine month that we're in, it brings the present. In
order for us to cut the cord, let go of
things that no longer work on our behalf, or in
order for us to cut the cord, let go of
things that no longer So when we're taking a look
(02:57):
at things like that, the emotions are very high at
this point in time and super high, super low. It
all depends on what we're going through. It is a
time to let go of the past make way for
the future what's coming up. But emotions, like I said,
the highs and lows, they're fueling everything we do and
(03:20):
everything we've got going on around us. And it's time
that we have to really take a look at what
is it that we really need. And on my web
page I put the mind is like a parachute. It
doesn't work unless it's opened. And this I don't know
who the person was that put that together, but that
is oh so true of what's going on right now.
(03:41):
We've got a lot of things that are very positive
that are be taking place. But cut clip cord of
all the negative things. We don't have to carry that anymore.
We're getting ready for all these new beginnings. Let go
of our past issues, take a look at the present,
and then weigh it out and see which one makes
us feel the best. Get rid of what you need
(04:03):
to and build out what you can.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
All right, Well, I think this is all good news, right.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Oh, I think so. Like I said, getting rid of
the past, I hope that's going to be true with
what's taking place today, But far be it me for
me to say anything.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Hey, fingers crossed, it's looking.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Good fingers and toes.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yes, it's looking very good for us. So hooray, hoorays.
So wonderful to have you back. I wanted to say,
welcome back, thank you. We had spiritual interference.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I'll get back to the right time then.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Anyways, it's great to have you back, and it's great
to have your update on everything, because we've all missed that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So it's saying well, I think the hardest part for
all of us Scorpio. It has its own stigm to it.
But it's a good time to revaluate and really let
go because starting next month, we're.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Off and running, are we now? Oh boy, yes we are. Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Well, I wanted to just share that the astrologer that
we know and love, William stick Evers, wanted to announce
that he has done a lot of projection on the election.
He's done a lot of In fact, he was on
Coast to coast last night talking about it. So if
you'd like to go visit him on Facebook, go ahead.
(05:28):
He's got a map there. He has made his prediction.
It's very interesting. I love William. He's been accurate almost
everything he's done, so we love having him on the show.
But anyways, he does have a map, he does have
some thoughts to share. So if you're interested in his
perspective on the election, you can go to his Facebook page.
(05:50):
That's William stick Evers on Facebook and you'll get a
lot of information. In the meantime, everybody else just keep breathing.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Deeply, deeply.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
It's very very exciting time.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
So anyways, tonight we have a fabulous guest as a
new book and one of our favorite topics.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
As you know, we love talking there. It is about.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Dreams, that's right, our favorite thing.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yes now.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Robin Cork is the author of dream Magic, Change Your
Reality Through the Liminal World of Sleep. It was just
published by Llewellen, and she's also the author of previous
books entitled Persephone and Demeter. She is a former member
of the International Association for the Study of Dreams and
(06:43):
has presented locally and at Nashville conferences, including pagan econ
the Water Priestess Confluence and Excuse Me the Nine Fall
Thank You Festival twenty nineteen. A longtime member of the
Sisterhood of Avalon, Robin currently writes a blog for a
(07:03):
a Goora Pathios entitled Phoenix Rising. In addition to teaching
workshops on a diverse array of metaphysical topics, she also
offers offers services including reiki coaching and tarr reading. Robin
lives off the coast of Washington State on San Juan
Island with her husband Richard and her cat Kaya, so
(07:27):
you can find more information about her on her website
at Phoenix Awe Nrising dot com. Robin, Welcome to our
crazy show.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Thank you so much for having me here. I'm very
happy to be here.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Great have you, Yes, wonderful to have you with our.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
With PK back number one and with this fabulous new book.
And as we talked about this, we love talking about
dreams and you have a very unique perspective on all
of this.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
So tell us how you got into it.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Sure, So, going back to when I was a child,
the first interaction I have with dreams that was unusual
for me was I remember we were in Oregon with
my cousins my grandparents. My grandfather was in the hospital,
and so my cousins, my sister, and I were sleeping
in the room and I had this dream that my
grandfather came over to say hi to me, and true
(08:26):
to his character, he was holding his patient gowns so
nothing would show, and giggling, and he had this trademark
Fedora hat On, and he came to tell me goodbye,
and he stepped into a limo and waved out the
window and drove off, And shortly after I woke up,
our parents.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
Came in to tell us my grandfather had died.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
And so that was the first dream experience I had
that really started me thinking. However, the time, it scared me,
I think more than anything else, and so I just
kind of pushed it aside. But as I got older
and these dreams kept happening, I decided to look into it,
embrace it, and high school I did a research project
on dreams, and then as I got older and evolved,
(09:07):
I just constantly was fascinated. So I've been keeping dream
journals since I was sixteen and just had a lot
of research, a lot of experiences, and as you mentioned,
being a part of the International Association for the study
of dreams. I wanted to be able to share a
comprehensive guidebook. I guess you would say for anyone working
with dreams, because whenever I would do workshops on dreams,
(09:29):
I had so many people come up to me and
ask me about their dreams or how they do this
or how they do that. And so I'm really blessed
to be able to share my experiences and my knowledge
with the world.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
We have talked about this topic, as I mentioned, with
our audience many many times, but one of the things
that we find rather frustrating is there's interest, a lot
of interest. However, people don't want to do the work
of it.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Find that I do find that, and that's you know,
people sometimes don't want to hear this.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
But one of the most powerful things you can.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Do is to keep a dream journal. And you know,
some people don't like to write. That's perfectly understandable. But
there's a lot of ways to do it. I mean,
most of us have a phone with a voice recorder,
so it could be as simple as just waking up
in the morning, recording what you remember of your dreams
and setting it aside. You can also draw your dreams.
But for me, writing is the most powerful. But I
(10:27):
do tell people that you have to do the work,
and you'd be Sometimes people are really surprised that if
they do start keeping a dream journal is one of
the steps that their memory recall gets better and they
start to see patterns, and so, yeah, you really do
have to do the work. The nice thing is we
dream every night, so we have a three hundred and
sixty five nights out of the year to play with this.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
And it doesn't take much time to record your dreams.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
You know, it really doesn't. And then people also get
stymied by well, what do they mean? They seem like
they don't make sense, but of course they do. It's
just a different language. But it's wonderful to have someone
like you on who's inspired and passionate about dreams too,
hopefully encourage more people to take a look at this.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
You know, we've always felt.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
That people who are not taking advantage of this opportunity
are really leaving a lot of personal power on the
table and a lot of personal direction on the table.
So yeah, it's it's really great to have you here.
So and it's you know, like you said, you can
use a voice recorder. You know, I've told people just
(11:35):
take the overall theme of the dream and write it down.
If you're too lazy to write down a whole, big,
you know, thesis about it, then do just a few
words so you'll remember it so it'll come back to you.
What do you tell your clients and your audience that
has a hard time remembering their dreams?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
My direct question for me as well, I never remember them.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Interesting that is, I think that when it comes to
the dream journal, I think people get hung up on
not having anything or feeling like they don't have anything
to record. But for me, I always try to talk
about you know, even if it's just a feeling. You
wake up with a certain feeling, and most people I
(12:18):
know I've had at least one dream where they wake
up with just a strong emotion that they just can't
quite you know, get rid of or shake. And so
even if you're just writing down how you feel or
the haziest of details. I do have a meditation in
my book that is basically this is what I call
the silver Yarn meditation, and it's a way to kind
of work backwards into your dream state.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
And it doesn't I mean this takes a lot.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Of practice too, because, if you think about it, unlike
some other societies, our society isn't really that focused on dreams.
We're not taught to pay attention to dreams, and so
it's not like you're going to, you know, write down
a journal entry one day and all of a.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Sudden you're gonna remember everything.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
But putting in that work, as you said, over time,
I think does help. And you know, a lot of
people don't remember the dreams. I have people tell me
I don't dream, which is actually everyone dreams. Scientifically, they've
shown everyone dreams. It's just kind of finding what works
for you to get yourself back in that state. They
say that if you do it first thing in the morning,
or I guess I should say after you wake up,
(13:17):
if you do it right, then you're more likely to
capture and start remembering.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Your dreams exactly. I mean.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I remember when I was in practice and people would
start keeping track of their dreams and they would find
themselves having dreams about when they were in the second
grade and when they were five, when they were six.
So I always ask them, was that the time that
your parents told you don't pay attention? It's only a
dream and you just stopped. So it's like yeah, but
(13:47):
then quickly they can evolve beyond those early years to
catch up with where they are today. But I've also said,
it's just like any other relationship, you have to get
a pathway going. You have to develop that relationship, put
energy into it so that you're dreaming. Mind knows, you
want to know what's going on. So very important to
(14:10):
do and a lot of the people I worked with
ended up being able to get prophetic dreams, which is
very exciting. And I'm sure you find the same thing
when people put the time and effort into it and
that relationship grows. It's a very close and powerful relationship.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Absolutely, and I think it's you know, it's very to me.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
It's fascinating because it's the when you talk about the relationship,
I think that is so true. It's the integration of
your conscious and subconscious self. And the problem is they
don't speak the same language. And so when you're sleeping,
of course, that is when your subconscious comes out and communicates,
but it communicates usually in visuals and images and things
like that, and so there's as you I think one
(14:51):
of you said, there's so much wisdom in our subconscious.
Being able to really pay attention to that part of
ourselves and develop that relationship can bring is so much
power and personal sovereignty, so much clarity oftentimes, and I
think that's a really important relationship to develop.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
I think part of.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
It is just stating that intent and following through with
that intent.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Absolutely absolutely, and it's again there's so much power in that.
And especially as women I think still struggle with their
identity or identity in the world, it's very helpful. It
does point the way, it does give you hints, it
does tell you where your blocks are. So it's just
(15:33):
an unending and free source of information.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
So anyways, I can remember over.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
The years specific times when my dreams I could remember them,
and then all of a sudden, there was a period
where I can't remember anything of a dream anymore, and
I'll get an anticipation of a thought, and I'm thinking,
was that part of a dream? Did I have that
to help me memorize what I wanted to deal with
(16:03):
on a day to day basis? Because I don't remember
my dreams, I don't I don't think at this stage,
I don't think I dream anymore. And yet I know
I must Yeah, how does what pull that part out?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
You know?
Speaker 6 (16:21):
I it is very interesting.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
So one of the things that also helped me when
I really started focusing on trying to remember my dreams
and figure that out. And it sounds like such a
simple thing, but I find that our mind, especially our
subconscious mind, works really well with cues or triggers, and
so in addition to the after effect of recording things beforehand,
I have pre dreamwork rituals and I talk about this
(16:46):
in the book that I will do when I'm trying
to manifest a you know, an answer to a question
or something like that, our specific dream.
Speaker 6 (16:54):
I have a dream alter that I'll use. I have
a dream doll. Sometimes I'll do a crystal grid.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
But one of the most helpful things, and it's a
simple thing, is having a queue like incense or something
and having a routine. It is the same thing with
when I started a meditation practice. I have major monkey mind.
I have a hard time setting still and meditating, and
so I would light incense just because I like the
way it smells. And after a while I realized that
(17:19):
when I would light the incense, my mind would start
to automatically calm down, it's like my subconscious new, Oh,
this is meditation time, okay. And so I applied some
of those same techniques to dreams, and so building in
that trigger in that cue can be another way to
help you start to remember your dreams. But it is
very interesting. I mean there's always mysteries, right, because we're
never completely in communication with our subconscious in a way
(17:43):
that is straightforward.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
And so do you find that the dreamy mind responds
well to ritual for.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
Me personally, yes, and I found that with other people
as well. There's something, there's something about it, and I
think part of it too, is just getting ourselves in
that mindset, you know, when it's a liminal space, right,
Dreaming is a liminal space. You kind of have a
foot in both worlds, and so I try to do,
you know, go with the like attracts like. So one
of the things I do when I'm doing a dream
(18:14):
ritual is I try to take a pre dreamwork bath
and I have some recipes for bath salts and things
like that. But the reason this works for me One,
baths are very relaxing for a lot of people. But two,
I think about the liminal space of water and being
held in the water even though I'm still on the earth,
and so just trying to get my mind set into
(18:35):
that liminal place, I think is another part of my
dreamwork ritual or routine that also helps to cure my subconscious.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Nice, very nice.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
So for people who are having a hard time remembering,
I see you have a recipe, tell us about your recipe.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Yes, so is that the tea that you're referring to? Yes, okay, yes, yes, yes.
So I love making teas.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
I love putting around with teas, and there are many
herbs and oils that are really great dream allies, and
so I try to work with you know, and it
really depends what your intent is. And so I think
for the tea that you're talking about, because I think
there's more than one recipe. It's really looking at things
like what are some relaxing herbs, So lavender is one.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
What are some.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Herbs that help you have vivid dreams or prophetic dreams?
Mugwort is a very strong It has a very strong
association with dreams, and so I try to put those
together and drinking that tea, especially, what I love to
do is sit in the bath and drink the tea
as long as I don't get over eat, just try
to do a little bit of both just relaxing. But
for me, tea is very relaxing. And what I love
(19:44):
is that you know once you become familiar, and I
always say you should always check with your doctor about
any kind of herbs that you're using in a tea.
Once you get familiar and you've taken those steps and
done that research, you can make all sorts of teas
depending on the type of dreaming dreamwork that you want
to do.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
And what about oils. Are there any special oils you
like to use?
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Yes, And so there's a there's a whole list in
the book, but I'll think one is lingling or I'm sorry,
not lingling.
Speaker 6 (20:14):
That is a good one.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
Clary stage and I don't know if you've ever smelled
Clary stage, but when you get that immediate hit and
it's just otherworldly, and so that's an oil.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
It really depends.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
So like rose is a good oil if you have
anxiety about sleep or you've had a lot of nightmares.
And then there's other oils like mint has been known
to create really vivid images in your dreams, and so
you can actually put those You can put them in
a dream doll that you can put them on like
a cotton ball near under your pillow. The other thing
I like to do is rub them into the soles
(20:47):
of my feet before I go to sleep, because we
have the most pores in that area, so you're it
really absorbs into your your bloodstream and your skin.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, very nice.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I have thought about the soles of the feed.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Yeah, I had a Yeah, I had an aroma therapist
tell me that I never knew about that before either.
Speaker 6 (21:04):
But there's something to it.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
No, that's wonderful. So what do you tell people to
do about nightmares?
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Yes, some nightmares are a challenge, and I wish there
was a magic wand to make them go away, but
there's not.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
I think, you know.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
One of the things, too, is to really do some
pre work to get you into a rest relaxing state.
But if we think about the fact that our subconscious
is trying to communicate with us in our in our dreams,
then what that tells me is that there's something that
you if you're having nightmares, particularly if you're having patterns
of nightmares or repetitive nightmares, there's something that you need
(21:44):
to pay attention to that.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
Perhaps you're not.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
And so some of it is the more I guess,
I would say muggle work of keeping the journal and
that sort of thing. Some of it for me has
been working with allies and guides to kind of figure
out what's going on there and what am I supposed
to be hearing and what am I supposed to be doing.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
As a result of that, I see it as it's.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
A horrible thing, but it's also kind of a quest
in a way, like there's something I'm supposed to be
listening to or doing, and this is my subconscious is
not going to stop until I pay attention to it.
And so you know, one of the goddesses that I
work with for nightmares is the Morgone, which is the
war Goddess, the Irish War Goddess, and she can be
(22:28):
very helpful. She has a very direct and sometimes scary
way of getting our attention in our dreams. But by
working with her and even just asking for a gentler communication,
that has been helpful for me and helping to understand
certain nightmares. The other thing I would say is if
you can do some lucid dreaming, then when those nightmares occur.
(22:51):
You can be aware that it's a nightmare, and sometimes
you can create situations where you can find your way
out of the nightmare.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yeah, that's good advice.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I know with the clients that I worked with a
lot of times, I found that they were getting nightmares
because they weren't paying.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Attention to their dreams.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
So it's one way of getting people's attention. It's like, well,
I sent you this you didn't remember, and I sent
you that you didn't remember it, and now I'm going
to scare the crap out of you so you will
remember this.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
And it is helpful to people in a strange way because.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Then they're like, oh my god, I had this horrible
nightmare last night. So it does get their attention on
whatever this subject is. And also, like you were mentioning
with lucid dreaming, I find that if people confront their
fear in the nightmare, then it transforms into something else.
As soon as you got your attention on it, you
(23:48):
call on your dream allies and you're not there by
yourself anymore, and then all of a sudden things change
and it's profound and it's always for the better. I'm
sure you've heard stories like this where. When I was
first studying dream analysis a million years ago, there was
a woman who had a dream. She'd wake up every
(24:11):
night with her heart pounding because her dream, her nightmare,
was that there was somebody standing over her bed with
a knife, and so yeah, and so she wake up terrified,
her heart pounding and sweating and everything else. And then finally,
after some dream training, she learned to calm down in
(24:31):
the dream, become more.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Lucid, and face it.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And when she turned to face whatever this was over
her bed with a knife, it transformed into the most beautiful,
beautiful rendition of herself.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
That's what she had been avoiding, and.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
The dreaming mind finally got a retention, and then she
was able to connect with this beautiful part of her.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
But who knew that this would be at the end
of the story?
Speaker 5 (24:59):
You know, yeah, yeah, that is really that is so true.
And I think, you know, one thing I've I've found
is that the more in the past when I've tried
to run for my subconscious, the more it's in my face.
You know, if I run, it just starts running faster
to catch up to me. But there are a lot
(25:20):
of indigenous cultures that really do believe in working out,
working through the power dreams, whether it's after they've had
the dream or a lot of times in their dream
the very exact same thing you were saying, where it's
part of their goal is to face their fears and
their dream right.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, it's and I know there's tribes, as you mentioned,
with indigenous people that have taught their children right from
the get go to remember their dreams, face their fears,
ask for a gift from whatever was scaring them once
they find the courage to confront. I mean, there's this
whole culture that they teach around that. And my understanding
was many years ago anyways, they didn't have any violence
(25:57):
in their culture.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
How unusual.
Speaker 6 (26:01):
Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
One of the stories that really stayed with me when
I was doing the research for this book was there's
a I can't remember their name, but it's in the book,
an Ecuadorian tribe and they every morning when they wake up,
they get in a circle and they all share their dreams,
and if someone has a dream about having a conflict
with another member of the group, even if during the
waking hours they're fine, they're forced to work it out.
(26:24):
That's how much they really believe in the power of
dreams and the importance of dreams.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yes, and to have no violence in their culture. I mean, goodness,
look at what we're facing this because a lot does that.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Yes, it really does.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I mean it's the kind of thing I wish they
taught in school, Yes, so that children could learn this.
It would help them manage so much better instead of
having to take medication or whatever the heck they're doing
these things now. So yeah, it's it's this missing part
of us that we can get back.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Again, if people get your book and read it.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
It will make it a lot easier for them to
understand it.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
It would, indeed, indeed, indeed, So tell us some of
your stories.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Have you been able to have a major transformation or
your clients by following these protocols with dreams?
Speaker 6 (27:16):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
So there's a couple things I would share. One is
that a lot of people ask me about dream dictionaries,
and for me personally, dream dictionaries have not been consistently helpful.
Sometimes it'll hit the nail on the head and sometimes
I'm just like, this does not make any sense to
me at all. And so one thing that I started
doing and started sharing with my audience is creating your
(27:36):
own dream journal. And so what I mean by that
is taking a few words like and I did this
in a couple of workshops, the word apple and just
doing a stream a consciousness list of what apple means
to you. And it was really telling because when I
would ask people to share, you had one person who
thought about health because an apple a day keeps the
doctor away. Another person thought about love because their son
(27:58):
had planted an apple tree for them for their birthday.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
So all that to say that while there.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
Are some universal symbols, I believe that can be helpful,
and dream dictionaries, I think getting to know the language
of your own subconscious can.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Be actually very very effective.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
And I always encourage people to look back on their
dictionaries that they're created because sometimes those meaning for us,
meetings for us evolve over time. But you know, dreams
have really helped me in every area of my life.
I'll just give you two quick examples. One was prior
to I retired earlier this year from my day jobs.
I was in nonprofit in the nonprofit world for many
(28:36):
many years, and I was working as a chief operations
officer in a large nonprofit social services organization, and I
had this dream that my supervisor, the CEO, was leaving,
and she wanted me to apply for her position. And
this was laughable to me. I actually woke up and
I laughed, and I told my husband, You'll never believe
(28:56):
this dream I had, And he said, why is that
so funny? And I'm like, I never thought of myself
that way. And that actually happened, and I.
Speaker 6 (29:05):
Became the CEO. I was a CEO for twelve years.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
But prior to that dream, I never would have thought
of myself that way, and I never would have positioned
myself in my power that way. So that's one example.
The other yeah, yeah, And then the other example I'll
give you is I get a lot of visits from
deceased loved ones.
Speaker 6 (29:24):
In my dreams.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
And so my father passed away last year, and I
remember getting a little bit frustrated towards the end of
the year because I hadn't seen him in a dream,
and I'm thinking, wait a minute, all these people I
know come to me in dreams, where's my dad? Well, finally,
right before Christmas time, I had said to my mom,
you know, I wish I could just have one more
Christmas with my dad, And that night I had a
(29:46):
dream where I was in the house. I was surrounded
by family. It was gorgeously decorated, and I was just
there was so much love and warmth. And I turned
around and I saw my father there and he said, well,
you said you wanted one more Christmas, so here it is.
And then he went away in a sled. But it
was just like so reassuring and.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yes, gosh, what a beautiful dream. Wonderful, wonderful. Yes, well again,
these these moments are powerful connections. And like you said,
you were frustrated because you hadn't seen him yet even
though he passed.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
But there he was, he heard you loud and clear.
That's fantastic, just fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
One dream I did want to share with everybody is
the one I had right before nine to eleven. So
first what happened was the strange things come out of
my mouth for no reason. And I had to go
to North Carolina to do an article about the Maharishi
aveda medical spa there, so I sacrificed myself, you know,
(30:53):
to go.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
For a week.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
But before before I left, I turned to my husband
and I said, there's going to be a terrorist attack
on American soil, and he just started laughing his head off.
He thought that was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard,
and certainly put that in that category about me. So
(31:19):
I said, I'm telling you Mark my words. I don't
know why I'm saying this, but it's going to happen.
So I went to North Carolina to the SPA, and
the night before I was supposed to leave, I had
a dream that I was watching the ocean and this
enormous shark, like thirty stories high, rose up out of
(31:43):
the water, and I knew, this is happening.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
This is happening.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
So as I that morning, I got all my stuff
together and their chauffeur was driving me back to the airport,
and I got a phone call from my husband said
you might as well turn around and go back because
we've been attacked and they've grounded all the planes.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
So I was, like I told John.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
But again it was something that i've for some reason
came through me. And then the dream confirmed that it
was happening, and the timing was right, you know, right
on the money. So it was a very very interesting
and powerful, unfortunate that being happened happened, But I also
(32:31):
found dreams about weather events like tornadoes, very destructive things
coming to some of my clients, and it usually pointed
the way towards a health issue.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Have you found that.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
I have not with health issues? What for example, with tornadoes?
Speaker 4 (32:51):
What for me?
Speaker 5 (32:51):
What they've often pointed to is tour is conflict coming.
But I think, you know, I think it's very very
possible that it's health issues too, because, like I said,
we all have our own subconscious language, and so it's
like our subconscious kind of knows, you know, what's going
to hopefully what's going to make us think of certain things.
So yeah, I can see how that would definitely be
(33:13):
a health issue because really too, if you think about it,
we embody a lot of the elements within us, right,
so if there's some sort of natural disaster involving the elements,
I can completely see how that would relate to our
own internal and external health.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Yes, exactly. Yes.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
And we had someone on the show, remember this lady
who she was a newscaster and she had breast cancer,
and her dream told her she had breast cancer, so
remember that, and she survived, but then she had a
dream that it was back and she went to the
(33:54):
doctor because the dream was very specific. I think this
was like the third time that she had cancer, crazy
like that. And she went to a doctrine and she
had had the stream that she had it, but they
wouldn't find it unless they did a very specific test,
remember this way, And so the doctor refused to do
(34:15):
the test.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It was was the terms that they used at the time.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yes, yes, So she got down on the floor and
had a full blown temper tantrum and said, I am
not leaving your office until you give me the order
for this test. And she started crying and screaming and
founding the floor, and her husband was with her and
he was so embarrassed that she was doing this. But
(34:44):
she did exactly the right thing. She had the test
and it turned out she did have the cancer back,
and they told her they never would have found it
with any other test. So there's the wisdom.
Speaker 6 (34:59):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
I mean that that is amazing and good for her,
by the way, because I think, particularly as women, we
have a tendency to just set our intuition aside because
we don't want to make a scene or things like that.
But good for her, because that's you know, I wish
everyone had and it's so hard in our society sometimes
I wish everyone had that same level of confidence in
(35:19):
their intuition and their dreams.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yes, And she went on to write a book about
it and got a lot of stories from other women
who had the same types of things happen, you know,
where their dreaming mind told them their diagnosis or what
treatment they should use. Even so, all of this, you know,
which they would have called witchery in the.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Past, you know, not us in the works, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
And there's no reason why we can't combine the ancient
types of things with the modern technology.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Absolutely, But you know, one of the things with this
nine year that we're going into, it brings is of
the past up and put some right smack in front
of us. Do we push to get the answers to
it or do we accept it as well? It's just
one of those things. And that's so easy for us
to do right now. What's holding us back is not
(36:17):
believing what we feel to go forward.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
That's so true, that's so true. It does hold us back.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
You know, I've watched so many people give their power
away to docums, you know, take care of me, fix me.
It's not how it works, not at all.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Unfortunately, that's quite true, and you have to fight so
many times just to get the basic things covered and
you will know you feel them, But how do you
express it to somebody else that has their arms crossed
across their chest and they've got their brain tilted on.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
Right right.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
But again, having this relationship with your dreaming mind, I
think gives you the confidence, gives you the power to
take it forward and go, I'm not leaving your office still,
I have this test. That's it, you know, That's what
gave her the best part. Yeah, and she saved her
own life that way because the doctor wasn't going to
was not going to So yeah, I think, you know,
(37:19):
anybody who leaves this kind of power on the table
is doing themselves a big disservice. And do you find
too that dreams change as we age?
Speaker 6 (37:31):
That is a really interesting question.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
And it's funny because I know our sleep patterns and
sleeping changes as we age, so I would think that
it would be reflected within I think, you know, I
think that's very possible. I think for me it mirrors
what I focus on or what is you know, most
in my mind, and that of course has changed with
(37:55):
age and with time as well. It's interesting because I
think the older I get in.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
A weird way. So let me back up for a second.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
I have a rare medical condition, so I've always felt
a connection to the liminal and I loved when you
were talking about the story with the woman, because yes,
our doctors are authorities.
Speaker 6 (38:15):
But we have to be the authorities of.
Speaker 5 (38:17):
Our own bodies and ourselves as well, and that's part
of our subconscious and so being somebody that's been really
keyed into listening to my body and having to advocate
for myself as I get older, you know, and of
course those little aches and pain start coming up and
things like that, and more people around me are experiencing
life threatening illnesses. I do notice that, and I don't
(38:39):
know if that's why, but it could be that connection.
I've been getting more and more dreams of visitations from
the other side, and so that could be an age
related thing as well. But I think it's very possible
that it does change.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
As we Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's
quite possible. I mean, I've seen changes through the years,
and of course it has to do with what I'm
going through at the time, but it is I think
important to be respectful of the where we are in
our lives, and now I know also a lot of
my clients and me included, sometimes it feels like we're
(39:17):
dipping into another reality. It's like it doesn't feel like
a dream. It feels very real. Like the night I
had a dream that I went to visit this house.
I had seen it once and then I went back
to visit it because now it was for sale. I'm
telling you, this dream was very real, and to the
(39:40):
point where when I woke up, I almost asked my husband,
do you remember this house? But I realized he wouldn't
because this was a separate reality I had just kind
of fallen into, and it was pretty clear, and I'm like,
why am I in this reality where there's this house
(40:01):
that I'm supposed to see?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
It was very strange. Do you get stuff like that
with your people too?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I do.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
I do, and I've had that from other people too,
where sometimes it's such a strong feeling that of being
there you almost can't like dissociate yourself from the dream
once you wake up. But you know, if you think
about it, dream world is a very interesting place because
there are not the limitations of time and distance and
(40:27):
things like that that we have when we're waking, right. So,
and they used to call dreaming or sleep the little
death because you were physically there, but you're still your
spirit whatever you want to call it was someplace else.
And I've talked to people too who feel like they
call themselves dream walkers, like they've gone to different places
during their dreams and it's very real to them, and
(40:49):
if you ask them, they can sketch out a picture.
Speaker 6 (40:52):
I've never gone.
Speaker 5 (40:53):
Someplace that looks different than this earth that we're living on,
but I have had that experience with houses where it's
so vivid and so lifelike that it's it's hard for
me to understand was that a memory or a dream?
It gets the lines get very blurred, and I haven't
figured out why that happens, but it's a very interesting phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Yeah, it is. What do you recommend to people to
become lucid?
Speaker 6 (41:16):
Okay, So there's a couple of things.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
A lot of it has to do with paying attention,
quite honestly, one of the most common methods. And I
think doctor Stephen Leberge, who was a pioneer in dream research,
really I think he was the one who initiated this,
but it could be wrong. And that is cues, using
cues throughout the day, And.
Speaker 6 (41:36):
The thought process behind that is.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
If you do these cues or checks throughout the day,
then you'll become so used to them that in your
dreams you will start doing them. So let me give
you an example of what I mean. And I don't
do this in public because people look at you kind
of weird, but I will, you know, if I would
take a break at work and I would, you know,
go use the restroom, I would try poking my finger
through a wall, or every time I would walk under
(41:59):
an arch, I would ask myself internally, am I in
a dream, to the point that it becomes a regular habit,
so that when you're in a dream that you start
asking yourself that, and oh, my goodness, now your finger
does go through the wall, or oh my goodness, you
notice that things are not right per se. But the
other thing that has been very helpful for me is
to notice patterns of dreams, because after a while I realize, oh,
(42:21):
this is.
Speaker 6 (42:22):
The dream I've been having. I'm dreaming. I'm lucid.
Speaker 5 (42:25):
I'll give you an example. I always have for many,
many years, I've had a couple of repetitive dreams. One
is being in an airplane and ending up in the
wrong place. But the other one, and this is horrible,
I arrive at Disneyland right when it's shutting down, or
I get there. I get there and I go on
like the Haunted Mansion, which of course is my favorite ride,
(42:45):
and all it is is someone carrying me in a
little red wagon through their living room.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Like it's horrible.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
But the thing about that it's disappointing as it is,
is when I've had those dreams now, I've had them
so many times that I'm like, oh, I'm in a
dream now. The one one thing I will say about
lucid dreaming is people often think that when you talk
about lucid dreaming, you're talking about being able to control
your dreams, and that's part of it. But you can
be lucid and not be able to control your dreams.
(43:11):
So there's been times where I've been aware that I'm
in a dream, but it can't change it. And one
of the things that happens to a lot of people
is when they do start to lose ad dream, they
realize they're in a dream and they get excited, and
then the emotion because they get so excited, makes the
lucidity stop, makes the dream go away. So it's you know,
a lot of it too, is being able to temper
your reaction when you realize you're in that dream.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yeah, it's it's quite a skill to master, and I
think that is definitely a wonderfully advanced type of thing
to pursue because it does give you. They say, whatever
you have control over in your dreams, you can have
control over in your life. So it does make sense
to take those steps in practice, as you mentioned, while
(43:55):
you're awake and go forward. I know some very expert
dream walkers like Carlos Castaneda. There's a wonderful experience that
I heard from a psychiatrist's friend of mine who knew
the research institute who ran this experiment with Carlos, and
(44:15):
again he did all those wonderful books that all became
New York Times best sellers about learning from a Shaman,
and what he called Mexico turns out to be New Mexico.
But anyways, they had I think it was twelve or
fifteen different participants, and they told them just write down
your dreams and if anything unusual happens, call the Institute
(44:39):
in the morning and tell us. And so all of
a sudden, after I don't know, a month and a
half or so, every single one of these participants called
the Institute in the morning and said, last night, Carlos
Castaneda walked into my dream, stuck out his hand and said, hello, Well,
(45:00):
I'm Carlos Castaneda. Call the Institute in the morning. So
talk about dream control, you know, the ability to dream work.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
I mean, he clearly was a master with that.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah, he had his own issues, but he did learn
quite a bit from the shaman, and that was one
of the things he learned. Wow, So we can all
aspire to that. I guess that level of expertise navigating
the dream world, but to contact all of those participants
in one night and the same message is extraordinary.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
Definitely, that's amazing. I hadn't heard that story.
Speaker 5 (45:39):
And it's kind of funny because, like you said, to
do that much work, you must be tired, but you're
doing it in your sleep, so I guess maybe you
don't need the extra rest. But there was a there
was a chapter in my book that talks about dream projection,
which is basically the same thing, and it is. It
is a really fascinating concept, and it shows up in
different myths and things like that too.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
So I think it's been around for a long time.
But that is pretty amazing.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
It is.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
And if you look at the Aboriginal culture, you know,
their dream time such a big part of their lives
and life experience.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
So yeah, you see that these.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Cultures, like I think that is supposed to be the
oldest in the world, isn't it the Aborigines, I think so.
I think so known all of this, they've known how
to do this. So again, very powerful magic, you know,
they all that with computers.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Amazing, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Yeah, yes, yes, exactly. Are there any cautionary tales you
have for people doing dream work.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
I haven't had anybody have any issues come up with
dreamwork that are really major issues. I will tell you
one time, my first husband, my ex husband, I was
trying to work out an issue that was happening and
we ended up in the same dream and we were
(47:04):
both like I think he said, and he said in
the dream, which it wasn't my intent to do that,
but he said, in the dream, we can't we can't
beat up like this again. Not that anything was going on,
but it was just like not intentionally on my part.
I certainly didn't mean to violate his privacy, nor did
he mean violate mine, but just being aware that sometimes
(47:24):
it can take you places that you weren't expecting, and so,
you know, I think that. I also think it can
be very like if you have night terrors, for example,
it can be very terrifying if you're doing dreamwork and
something like that happens.
Speaker 6 (47:39):
But again I think the answer is well, one to really.
Speaker 5 (47:44):
Work on looking at research and things like that to
know how you're going to go about doing it, because
I think there are people that have natural talent for
it and they end up in places or with dreams
that they're just like what happened.
Speaker 6 (47:55):
So I think really doing that part of it, doing
the work.
Speaker 5 (47:59):
But I don't think there's there's nobody that I know
that has ever said, you know, I did this dream
work and horrible things happen.
Speaker 6 (48:05):
So it's a pretty pretty safe.
Speaker 5 (48:08):
I would say it's a safe venture as long as
you don't have any pervading mental health issues. I think
it can be sometimes harmful to people if they're working
through certain mental health issues that maybe bar the lines
of reality a little bit, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Oh sure, I mean, because you don't want them to
get lost in the dreaming reality, thinking it is our
working reality. That's very a very challenging place to be.
But there, I think there's just so much more to
learn about this whole topic. So again, we're very glad
that you're here to talk about it with us and
(48:46):
encourage people to please pay attention to their dreams and
follow the directions. And it's not that hard to figure
out what dreams are meaning. And especially if you get
with a dream group right right.
Speaker 6 (48:59):
Right, that could be very helpful.
Speaker 5 (49:01):
And the other two things I would say is that
if you do have a regular meditation practice, that could
be very helpful in your dream work.
Speaker 6 (49:08):
But also have fun with it. Approach it like play.
Speaker 5 (49:11):
If you're too serious about it, it's really hard, I think,
or if you're really hard on yourself. I want this
to happen perfectly. You have to have some patience and
you have to have some fun with it.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Absolutely, Otherwise it's just more drudgery. Who needs that?
Speaker 4 (49:24):
Right? Nobody say?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
You think many times people try so hard that they
may get harder for themselves.
Speaker 5 (49:34):
Yes, one of those finger traps and the harder you pull.
Speaker 6 (49:37):
Yeah, I kind of think of it, but like that, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, definitely makes good sense.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
Yeah yeah, but it is something.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
How long do you feel people have to be working
with their dreams before they can ask a question and
get an answer to that question.
Speaker 5 (49:54):
That's a really hard question, because I think there are
some people that are more in tune with their dreams,
some that are really starting from scratch. I find that
people that and there's been research to support this. If
you're somebody that's very creative and into creative expression, art, music,
whatever the case may be, sometimes it comes a little
easier to those people. Or if you have a vivid imagination,
(50:14):
but if you don't, it's okay, it may take you
a little bit longer.
Speaker 6 (50:18):
One of the things that I found when I did.
Speaker 5 (50:19):
Start doing a dream journal, I always recommend that people
when they start doing a dream journal, that they wait
a couple of weeks before they look at it, because
then you can go back and see the patterns, and
so I think consistency is key. I can't really give
you a specific amount of time, but I think if
you do this consistently, I would say even within a
matter of months you.
Speaker 6 (50:38):
Could start getting the information that you see.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yeah, well that's that's very good. Yeah, talk about power.
I was living in a condo years ago and I
kept a dream journal religiously. I mean I made the
dream journal myself, you know, out of velvet and all.
This made it really nice. It felt like it belonged
to me. And there was a fire in the condo
(51:01):
and this was on my nightstand and everything around it
burned except.
Speaker 4 (51:08):
The dream journal. Wow.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
So yeah, I still have it. It really taught me
the power you know when you put your intention into
something and you have that strong of a relationship.
Speaker 4 (51:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
I mean the glass melted on the window on one side,
and the bed you know, mattress fires, very hot fires.
Speaker 4 (51:29):
It was in between those two things.
Speaker 6 (51:31):
Wow, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (51:33):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
So it's powerful everybody. So get this new book. It's
a great book and it is called dream Magic.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
There it is. It's beautiful. I love the cover. So
get it.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
Start paying attention to your dreams, you know, get it
group going in your area. You can now all meet
on Skype or zoom or whatever share your dreams and
that's how you learn what they mean. It's great, great,
techniques to use in a dream group. So yeah, it
all works in our favor. Absolutely, so we're oh my god,
(52:15):
amount of time we.
Speaker 4 (52:16):
Have a minute to wrapp goes by so fast.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
I know.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
It was so much fun having you here.
Speaker 6 (52:21):
Thank you, thank you, I'm talking with you. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (52:25):
It's great.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Keep us posted on your next book, Okay, I will, yes.
And so next week we'll be back again, everybody with
another great show. And until then, we'll see you on
the Blue Highway. Good Night, good night,
Our angels, ghosts and Bigfoot. Oh my, it's just another
night for supernatural girls and real stories, real answers to
life's biggest supernatural mysteries. And now for another exciting interview
with paranormal experts from this world and others. Here's your host,
paranormal researcher Patricia Baker on the One the Only Supernatural Girls.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
We're going to take a look at what's been going
on now. We've got to remember this is a new month.
It's going to be all about our scorpio issues and
it's good for some people, not for everybody, but it's
a time of transformation and that's the thing we have
to pay attention to do. Scorpio teaches us how to
(01:10):
deal with the fears and fantasies that go on in
our life, so we have to take a look at
how to make it work better on our behalf for
a change. Once we're done with doing things that seem
to frighten us, we can put things aside and say, hey,
let's really take a look at what's going on. This
is a new month, new beginnings, and it is a
(01:32):
time when Scorpio is involved. It's a sign of death
as well. As rebirth, and it comes from the Sagittarius
aspect of the sign. So it has a lot to
teach us because we're releasing the old making way for
the new. And that's the hardest part for us is
to let go of what is. I always say, you know,
(01:53):
if you get this big bag alongside of you when
you're in the car to drive down the road, take
the things that have been bugging you of it in
the bag, drop the window, visualize yourself throwing it out.
Doesn't matter where it goes, Just don't take it home
with you. Enough is enough. Whatever your personal year that
you're in. Right now, everything seems to be doubling up
(02:15):
on us, and when we're dealing with this month, it
is a new beginning in many respects, but it teaches
us how to deal with the fears that we've had.
J always say the boogeyman, let go, let God. We're
in better shape doing it that way. Now, Remember that
(02:36):
the issues of the past arise this month because the
nine month that we're in, it brings the present. In
order for us to cut the cord, let go of
things that no longer work on our behalf, or in
order for us to cut the cord, let go of
things that no longer So when we're taking a look
(02:57):
at things like that, the emotions are very high at
this point in time and super high, super low. It
all depends on what we're going through. It is a
time to let go of the past make way for
the future what's coming up. But emotions, like I said,
the highs and lows, they're fueling everything we do and
(03:20):
everything we've got going on around us. And it's time
that we have to really take a look at what
is it that we really need. And on my web
page I put the mind is like a parachute. It
doesn't work unless it's opened. And this I don't know
who the person was that put that together, but that
is oh so true of what's going on right now.
(03:41):
We've got a lot of things that are very positive
that are be taking place. But cut clip cord of
all the negative things. We don't have to carry that anymore.
We're getting ready for all these new beginnings. Let go
of our past issues, take a look at the present,
and then weigh it out and see which one makes
us feel the best. Get rid of what you need
(04:03):
to and build out what you can.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
All right, Well, I think this is all good news, right.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Oh, I think so. Like I said, getting rid of
the past, I hope that's going to be true with
what's taking place today, But far be it me for
me to say anything.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Hey, fingers crossed, it's looking.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Good fingers and toes.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yes, it's looking very good for us. So hooray, hoorays.
So wonderful to have you back. I wanted to say,
welcome back, thank you. We had spiritual interference.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I'll get back to the right time then.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Anyways, it's great to have you back, and it's great
to have your update on everything, because we've all missed that.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So it's saying well, I think the hardest part for
all of us Scorpio. It has its own stigm to it.
But it's a good time to revaluate and really let
go because starting next month, we're.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Off and running, are we now? Oh boy, yes we are. Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Well, I wanted to just share that the astrologer that
we know and love, William stick Evers, wanted to announce
that he has done a lot of projection on the election.
He's done a lot of In fact, he was on
Coast to coast last night talking about it. So if
you'd like to go visit him on Facebook, go ahead.
(05:28):
He's got a map there. He has made his prediction.
It's very interesting. I love William. He's been accurate almost
everything he's done, so we love having him on the show.
But anyways, he does have a map, he does have
some thoughts to share. So if you're interested in his
perspective on the election, you can go to his Facebook page.
(05:50):
That's William stick Evers on Facebook and you'll get a
lot of information. In the meantime, everybody else just keep breathing.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Deeply, deeply.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
It's very very exciting time.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
So anyways, tonight we have a fabulous guest as a
new book and one of our favorite topics.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
As you know, we love talking there. It is about.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Dreams, that's right, our favorite thing.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Yes now.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Robin Cork is the author of dream Magic, Change Your
Reality Through the Liminal World of Sleep. It was just
published by Llewellen, and she's also the author of previous
books entitled Persephone and Demeter. She is a former member
of the International Association for the Study of Dreams and
(06:43):
has presented locally and at Nashville conferences, including pagan econ
the Water Priestess Confluence and Excuse Me the Nine Fall
Thank You Festival twenty nineteen. A longtime member of the
Sisterhood of Avalon, Robin currently writes a blog for a
(07:03):
a Goora Pathios entitled Phoenix Rising. In addition to teaching
workshops on a diverse array of metaphysical topics, she also
offers offers services including reiki coaching and tarr reading. Robin
lives off the coast of Washington State on San Juan
Island with her husband Richard and her cat Kaya, so
(07:27):
you can find more information about her on her website
at Phoenix Awe Nrising dot com. Robin, Welcome to our
crazy show.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
Thank you so much for having me here. I'm very
happy to be here.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Great have you, Yes, wonderful to have you with our.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
With PK back number one and with this fabulous new book.
And as we talked about this, we love talking about
dreams and you have a very unique perspective on all
of this.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
So tell us how you got into it.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
Sure, So, going back to when I was a child,
the first interaction I have with dreams that was unusual
for me was I remember we were in Oregon with
my cousins my grandparents. My grandfather was in the hospital,
and so my cousins, my sister, and I were sleeping
in the room and I had this dream that my
grandfather came over to say hi to me, and true
(08:26):
to his character, he was holding his patient gowns so
nothing would show, and giggling, and he had this trademark
Fedora hat On, and he came to tell me goodbye,
and he stepped into a limo and waved out the
window and drove off, And shortly after I woke up,
our parents.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
Came in to tell us my grandfather had died.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
And so that was the first dream experience I had
that really started me thinking. However, the time, it scared me,
I think more than anything else, and so I just
kind of pushed it aside. But as I got older
and these dreams kept happening, I decided to look into it,
embrace it, and high school I did a research project
on dreams, and then as I got older and evolved,
(09:07):
I just constantly was fascinated. So I've been keeping dream
journals since I was sixteen and just had a lot
of research, a lot of experiences, and as you mentioned,
being a part of the International Association for the study
of dreams. I wanted to be able to share a
comprehensive guidebook. I guess you would say for anyone working
with dreams, because whenever I would do workshops on dreams,
(09:29):
I had so many people come up to me and
ask me about their dreams or how they do this
or how they do that. And so I'm really blessed
to be able to share my experiences and my knowledge
with the world.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
That's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
We have talked about this topic, as I mentioned, with
our audience many many times, but one of the things
that we find rather frustrating is there's interest, a lot
of interest. However, people don't want to do the work
of it.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Find that I do find that, and that's you know,
people sometimes don't want to hear this.
Speaker 6 (10:04):
But one of the most powerful things you can.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Do is to keep a dream journal. And you know,
some people don't like to write. That's perfectly understandable. But
there's a lot of ways to do it. I mean,
most of us have a phone with a voice recorder,
so it could be as simple as just waking up
in the morning, recording what you remember of your dreams
and setting it aside. You can also draw your dreams.
But for me, writing is the most powerful. But I
(10:27):
do tell people that you have to do the work,
and you'd be Sometimes people are really surprised that if
they do start keeping a dream journal is one of
the steps that their memory recall gets better and they
start to see patterns, and so, yeah, you really do
have to do the work. The nice thing is we
dream every night, so we have a three hundred and
sixty five nights out of the year to play with this.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
And it doesn't take much time to record your dreams.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
You know, it really doesn't. And then people also get
stymied by well, what do they mean? They seem like
they don't make sense, but of course they do. It's
just a different language. But it's wonderful to have someone
like you on who's inspired and passionate about dreams too,
hopefully encourage more people to take a look at this.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
You know, we've always felt.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
That people who are not taking advantage of this opportunity
are really leaving a lot of personal power on the
table and a lot of personal direction on the table.
So yeah, it's it's really great to have you here.
So and it's you know, like you said, you can
use a voice recorder. You know, I've told people just
(11:35):
take the overall theme of the dream and write it down.
If you're too lazy to write down a whole, big,
you know, thesis about it, then do just a few
words so you'll remember it so it'll come back to you.
What do you tell your clients and your audience that
has a hard time remembering their dreams?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
My direct question for me as well, I never remember them.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Interesting that is, I think that when it comes to
the dream journal, I think people get hung up on
not having anything or feeling like they don't have anything
to record. But for me, I always try to talk
about you know, even if it's just a feeling. You
wake up with a certain feeling, and most people I
(12:18):
know I've had at least one dream where they wake
up with just a strong emotion that they just can't
quite you know, get rid of or shake. And so
even if you're just writing down how you feel or
the haziest of details. I do have a meditation in
my book that is basically this is what I call
the silver Yarn meditation, and it's a way to kind
of work backwards into your dream state.
Speaker 6 (12:40):
And it doesn't I mean this takes a lot.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Of practice too, because, if you think about it, unlike
some other societies, our society isn't really that focused on dreams.
We're not taught to pay attention to dreams, and so
it's not like you're going to, you know, write down
a journal entry one day and all of a.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Sudden you're gonna remember everything.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
But putting in that work, as you said, over time,
I think does help. And you know, a lot of
people don't remember the dreams. I have people tell me
I don't dream, which is actually everyone dreams. Scientifically, they've
shown everyone dreams. It's just kind of finding what works
for you to get yourself back in that state. They
say that if you do it first thing in the morning,
or I guess I should say after you wake up,
(13:17):
if you do it right, then you're more likely to
capture and start remembering.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Your dreams exactly. I mean.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I remember when I was in practice and people would
start keeping track of their dreams and they would find
themselves having dreams about when they were in the second
grade and when they were five, when they were six.
So I always ask them, was that the time that
your parents told you don't pay attention? It's only a
dream and you just stopped. So it's like yeah, but
(13:47):
then quickly they can evolve beyond those early years to
catch up with where they are today. But I've also said,
it's just like any other relationship, you have to get
a pathway going. You have to develop that relationship, put
energy into it so that you're dreaming. Mind knows, you
want to know what's going on. So very important to
(14:10):
do and a lot of the people I worked with
ended up being able to get prophetic dreams, which is
very exciting. And I'm sure you find the same thing
when people put the time and effort into it and
that relationship grows. It's a very close and powerful relationship.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Absolutely, and I think it's you know, it's very to me.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
It's fascinating because it's the when you talk about the relationship,
I think that is so true. It's the integration of
your conscious and subconscious self. And the problem is they
don't speak the same language. And so when you're sleeping,
of course, that is when your subconscious comes out and communicates,
but it communicates usually in visuals and images and things
like that, and so there's as you I think one
(14:51):
of you said, there's so much wisdom in our subconscious.
Being able to really pay attention to that part of
ourselves and develop that relationship can bring is so much
power and personal sovereignty, so much clarity oftentimes, and I
think that's a really important relationship to develop.
Speaker 6 (15:07):
I think part of.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
It is just stating that intent and following through with
that intent.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Absolutely absolutely, and it's again there's so much power in that.
And especially as women I think still struggle with their
identity or identity in the world, it's very helpful. It
does point the way, it does give you hints, it
does tell you where your blocks are. So it's just
(15:33):
an unending and free source of information.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
So anyways, I can remember over.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
The years specific times when my dreams I could remember them,
and then all of a sudden, there was a period
where I can't remember anything of a dream anymore, and
I'll get an anticipation of a thought, and I'm thinking,
was that part of a dream? Did I have that
to help me memorize what I wanted to deal with
(16:03):
on a day to day basis? Because I don't remember
my dreams, I don't I don't think at this stage,
I don't think I dream anymore. And yet I know
I must Yeah, how does what pull that part out?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
You know?
Speaker 6 (16:21):
I it is very interesting.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
So one of the things that also helped me when
I really started focusing on trying to remember my dreams
and figure that out. And it sounds like such a
simple thing, but I find that our mind, especially our
subconscious mind, works really well with cues or triggers, and
so in addition to the after effect of recording things beforehand,
I have pre dreamwork rituals and I talk about this
(16:46):
in the book that I will do when I'm trying
to manifest a you know, an answer to a question
or something like that, our specific dream.
Speaker 6 (16:54):
I have a dream alter that I'll use. I have
a dream doll. Sometimes I'll do a crystal grid.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
But one of the most helpful things, and it's a
simple thing, is having a queue like incense or something
and having a routine. It is the same thing with
when I started a meditation practice. I have major monkey mind.
I have a hard time setting still and meditating, and
so I would light incense just because I like the
way it smells. And after a while I realized that
(17:19):
when I would light the incense, my mind would start
to automatically calm down, it's like my subconscious new, Oh,
this is meditation time, okay. And so I applied some
of those same techniques to dreams, and so building in
that trigger in that cue can be another way to
help you start to remember your dreams. But it is
very interesting. I mean there's always mysteries, right, because we're
never completely in communication with our subconscious in a way
(17:43):
that is straightforward.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
And so do you find that the dreamy mind responds
well to ritual for.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
Me personally, yes, and I found that with other people
as well. There's something, there's something about it, and I
think part of it too, is just getting ourselves in
that mindset, you know, when it's a liminal space, right,
Dreaming is a liminal space. You kind of have a
foot in both worlds, and so I try to do,
you know, go with the like attracts like. So one
of the things I do when I'm doing a dream
(18:14):
ritual is I try to take a pre dreamwork bath
and I have some recipes for bath salts and things
like that. But the reason this works for me One,
baths are very relaxing for a lot of people. But two,
I think about the liminal space of water and being
held in the water even though I'm still on the earth,
and so just trying to get my mind set into
(18:35):
that liminal place, I think is another part of my
dreamwork ritual or routine that also helps to cure my subconscious.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Nice, very nice.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
So for people who are having a hard time remembering,
I see you have a recipe, tell us about your recipe.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Yes, so is that the tea that you're referring to? Yes, okay, yes, yes, yes.
So I love making teas.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
I love putting around with teas, and there are many
herbs and oils that are really great dream allies, and
so I try to work with you know, and it
really depends what your intent is. And so I think
for the tea that you're talking about, because I think
there's more than one recipe. It's really looking at things
like what are some relaxing herbs, So lavender is one.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
What are some.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Herbs that help you have vivid dreams or prophetic dreams?
Mugwort is a very strong It has a very strong
association with dreams, and so I try to put those
together and drinking that tea, especially, what I love to
do is sit in the bath and drink the tea
as long as I don't get over eat, just try
to do a little bit of both just relaxing. But
for me, tea is very relaxing. And what I love
(19:44):
is that you know once you become familiar, and I
always say you should always check with your doctor about
any kind of herbs that you're using in a tea.
Once you get familiar and you've taken those steps and
done that research, you can make all sorts of teas
depending on the type of dreaming dreamwork that you want
to do.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
And what about oils. Are there any special oils you
like to use?
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Yes, And so there's a there's a whole list in
the book, but I'll think one is lingling or I'm sorry,
not lingling.
Speaker 6 (20:14):
That is a good one.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
Clary stage and I don't know if you've ever smelled
Clary stage, but when you get that immediate hit and
it's just otherworldly, and so that's an oil.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
It really depends.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
So like rose is a good oil if you have
anxiety about sleep or you've had a lot of nightmares.
And then there's other oils like mint has been known
to create really vivid images in your dreams, and so
you can actually put those You can put them in
a dream doll that you can put them on like
a cotton ball near under your pillow. The other thing
I like to do is rub them into the soles
(20:47):
of my feet before I go to sleep, because we
have the most pores in that area, so you're it
really absorbs into your your bloodstream and your skin.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Yeah, very nice.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I have thought about the soles of the feed.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
Yeah, I had a Yeah, I had an aroma therapist
tell me that I never knew about that before either.
Speaker 6 (21:04):
But there's something to it.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
No, that's wonderful. So what do you tell people to
do about nightmares?
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Yes, some nightmares are a challenge, and I wish there
was a magic wand to make them go away, but
there's not.
Speaker 6 (21:21):
I think, you know.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
One of the things, too, is to really do some
pre work to get you into a rest relaxing state.
But if we think about the fact that our subconscious
is trying to communicate with us in our in our dreams,
then what that tells me is that there's something that
you if you're having nightmares, particularly if you're having patterns
of nightmares or repetitive nightmares, there's something that you need
(21:44):
to pay attention to that.
Speaker 6 (21:45):
Perhaps you're not.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
And so some of it is the more I guess,
I would say muggle work of keeping the journal and
that sort of thing. Some of it for me has
been working with allies and guides to kind of figure
out what's going on there and what am I supposed
to be hearing and what am I supposed to be doing.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
As a result of that, I see it as it's.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
A horrible thing, but it's also kind of a quest
in a way, like there's something I'm supposed to be
listening to or doing, and this is my subconscious is
not going to stop until I pay attention to it.
And so you know, one of the goddesses that I
work with for nightmares is the Morgone, which is the
war Goddess, the Irish War Goddess, and she can be
(22:28):
very helpful. She has a very direct and sometimes scary
way of getting our attention in our dreams. But by
working with her and even just asking for a gentler communication,
that has been helpful for me and helping to understand
certain nightmares. The other thing I would say is if
you can do some lucid dreaming, then when those nightmares occur.
(22:51):
You can be aware that it's a nightmare, and sometimes
you can create situations where you can find your way
out of the nightmare.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yeah, that's good advice.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I know with the clients that I worked with a
lot of times, I found that they were getting nightmares
because they weren't paying.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Attention to their dreams.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
So it's one way of getting people's attention. It's like, well,
I sent you this you didn't remember, and I sent
you that you didn't remember it, and now I'm going
to scare the crap out of you so you will
remember this.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
And it is helpful to people in a strange way because.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Then they're like, oh my god, I had this horrible
nightmare last night. So it does get their attention on
whatever this subject is. And also, like you were mentioning
with lucid dreaming, I find that if people confront their
fear in the nightmare, then it transforms into something else.
As soon as you got your attention on it, you
(23:48):
call on your dream allies and you're not there by
yourself anymore, and then all of a sudden things change
and it's profound and it's always for the better. I'm
sure you've heard stories like this where. When I was
first studying dream analysis a million years ago, there was
a woman who had a dream. She'd wake up every
(24:11):
night with her heart pounding because her dream, her nightmare,
was that there was somebody standing over her bed with
a knife, and so yeah, and so she wake up terrified,
her heart pounding and sweating and everything else. And then finally,
after some dream training, she learned to calm down in
(24:31):
the dream, become more.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Lucid, and face it.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And when she turned to face whatever this was over
her bed with a knife, it transformed into the most beautiful,
beautiful rendition of herself.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
That's what she had been avoiding, and.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
The dreaming mind finally got a retention, and then she
was able to connect with this beautiful part of her.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
But who knew that this would be at the end
of the story?
Speaker 5 (24:59):
You know, yeah, yeah, that is really that is so true.
And I think, you know, one thing I've I've found
is that the more in the past when I've tried
to run for my subconscious, the more it's in my face.
You know, if I run, it just starts running faster
to catch up to me. But there are a lot
(25:20):
of indigenous cultures that really do believe in working out,
working through the power dreams, whether it's after they've had
the dream or a lot of times in their dream
the very exact same thing you were saying, where it's
part of their goal is to face their fears and
their dream right.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, it's and I know there's tribes, as you mentioned,
with indigenous people that have taught their children right from
the get go to remember their dreams, face their fears,
ask for a gift from whatever was scaring them once
they find the courage to confront. I mean, there's this
whole culture that they teach around that. And my understanding
was many years ago anyways, they didn't have any violence
(25:57):
in their culture.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
How unusual.
Speaker 6 (26:01):
Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
One of the stories that really stayed with me when
I was doing the research for this book was there's
a I can't remember their name, but it's in the book,
an Ecuadorian tribe and they every morning when they wake up,
they get in a circle and they all share their dreams,
and if someone has a dream about having a conflict
with another member of the group, even if during the
waking hours they're fine, they're forced to work it out.
(26:24):
That's how much they really believe in the power of
dreams and the importance of dreams.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yes, and to have no violence in their culture. I mean, goodness,
look at what we're facing this because a lot does that.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Yes, it really does.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I mean it's the kind of thing I wish they
taught in school, Yes, so that children could learn this.
It would help them manage so much better instead of
having to take medication or whatever the heck they're doing
these things now. So yeah, it's it's this missing part
of us that we can get back.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Again, if people get your book and read it.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
It will make it a lot easier for them to
understand it.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
It would, indeed, indeed, indeed, So tell us some of
your stories.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Have you been able to have a major transformation or
your clients by following these protocols with dreams?
Speaker 6 (27:16):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
So there's a couple things I would share. One is
that a lot of people ask me about dream dictionaries,
and for me personally, dream dictionaries have not been consistently helpful.
Sometimes it'll hit the nail on the head and sometimes
I'm just like, this does not make any sense to
me at all. And so one thing that I started
doing and started sharing with my audience is creating your
(27:36):
own dream journal. And so what I mean by that
is taking a few words like and I did this
in a couple of workshops, the word apple and just
doing a stream a consciousness list of what apple means
to you. And it was really telling because when I
would ask people to share, you had one person who
thought about health because an apple a day keeps the
doctor away. Another person thought about love because their son
(27:58):
had planted an apple tree for them for their birthday.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
So all that to say that while there.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
Are some universal symbols, I believe that can be helpful,
and dream dictionaries, I think getting to know the language
of your own subconscious can.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Be actually very very effective.
Speaker 5 (28:14):
And I always encourage people to look back on their
dictionaries that they're created because sometimes those meaning for us,
meetings for us evolve over time. But you know, dreams
have really helped me in every area of my life.
I'll just give you two quick examples. One was prior
to I retired earlier this year from my day jobs.
I was in nonprofit in the nonprofit world for many
(28:36):
many years, and I was working as a chief operations
officer in a large nonprofit social services organization, and I
had this dream that my supervisor, the CEO, was leaving,
and she wanted me to apply for her position. And
this was laughable to me. I actually woke up and
I laughed, and I told my husband, You'll never believe
(28:56):
this dream I had, And he said, why is that
so funny? And I'm like, I never thought of myself
that way. And that actually happened, and I.
Speaker 6 (29:05):
Became the CEO. I was a CEO for twelve years.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
But prior to that dream, I never would have thought
of myself that way, and I never would have positioned
myself in my power that way. So that's one example.
The other yeah, yeah, And then the other example I'll
give you is I get a lot of visits from
deceased loved ones.
Speaker 6 (29:24):
In my dreams.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
And so my father passed away last year, and I
remember getting a little bit frustrated towards the end of
the year because I hadn't seen him in a dream,
and I'm thinking, wait a minute, all these people I
know come to me in dreams, where's my dad? Well, finally,
right before Christmas time, I had said to my mom,
you know, I wish I could just have one more
Christmas with my dad, And that night I had a
(29:46):
dream where I was in the house. I was surrounded
by family. It was gorgeously decorated, and I was just
there was so much love and warmth. And I turned
around and I saw my father there and he said, well,
you said you wanted one more Christmas, so here it is.
And then he went away in a sled. But it
was just like so reassuring and.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yes, gosh, what a beautiful dream. Wonderful, wonderful. Yes, well again,
these these moments are powerful connections. And like you said,
you were frustrated because you hadn't seen him yet even
though he passed.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
But there he was, he heard you loud and clear.
That's fantastic, just fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
One dream I did want to share with everybody is
the one I had right before nine to eleven. So
first what happened was the strange things come out of
my mouth for no reason. And I had to go
to North Carolina to do an article about the Maharishi
aveda medical spa there, so I sacrificed myself, you know,
(30:53):
to go.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
For a week.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
But before before I left, I turned to my husband
and I said, there's going to be a terrorist attack
on American soil, and he just started laughing his head off.
He thought that was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard,
and certainly put that in that category about me. So
(31:19):
I said, I'm telling you Mark my words. I don't
know why I'm saying this, but it's going to happen.
So I went to North Carolina to the SPA, and
the night before I was supposed to leave, I had
a dream that I was watching the ocean and this
enormous shark, like thirty stories high, rose up out of
(31:43):
the water, and I knew, this is happening.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
This is happening.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
So as I that morning, I got all my stuff
together and their chauffeur was driving me back to the airport,
and I got a phone call from my husband said
you might as well turn around and go back because
we've been attacked and they've grounded all the planes.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
So I was, like I told John.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
But again it was something that i've for some reason
came through me. And then the dream confirmed that it
was happening, and the timing was right, you know, right
on the money. So it was a very very interesting
and powerful, unfortunate that being happened happened, But I also
(32:31):
found dreams about weather events like tornadoes, very destructive things
coming to some of my clients, and it usually pointed
the way towards a health issue.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Have you found that.
Speaker 5 (32:47):
I have not with health issues? What for example, with tornadoes?
Speaker 4 (32:51):
What for me?
Speaker 5 (32:51):
What they've often pointed to is tour is conflict coming.
But I think, you know, I think it's very very
possible that it's health issues too, because, like I said,
we all have our own subconscious language, and so it's
like our subconscious kind of knows, you know, what's going
to hopefully what's going to make us think of certain things.
So yeah, I can see how that would definitely be
(33:13):
a health issue because really too, if you think about it,
we embody a lot of the elements within us, right,
so if there's some sort of natural disaster involving the elements,
I can completely see how that would relate to our
own internal and external health.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Yes, exactly. Yes.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
And we had someone on the show, remember this lady
who she was a newscaster and she had breast cancer,
and her dream told her she had breast cancer, so
remember that, and she survived, but then she had a
dream that it was back and she went to the
(33:54):
doctor because the dream was very specific. I think this
was like the third time that she had cancer, crazy
like that. And she went to a doctrine and she
had had the stream that she had it, but they
wouldn't find it unless they did a very specific test,
remember this way, And so the doctor refused to do
(34:15):
the test.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It was was the terms that they used at the time.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yes, yes, So she got down on the floor and
had a full blown temper tantrum and said, I am
not leaving your office until you give me the order
for this test. And she started crying and screaming and
founding the floor, and her husband was with her and
he was so embarrassed that she was doing this. But
(34:44):
she did exactly the right thing. She had the test
and it turned out she did have the cancer back,
and they told her they never would have found it
with any other test. So there's the wisdom.
Speaker 6 (34:59):
Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (34:59):
I mean that that is amazing and good for her,
by the way, because I think, particularly as women, we
have a tendency to just set our intuition aside because
we don't want to make a scene or things like that.
But good for her, because that's you know, I wish
everyone had and it's so hard in our society sometimes
I wish everyone had that same level of confidence in
(35:19):
their intuition and their dreams.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Yes, And she went on to write a book about
it and got a lot of stories from other women
who had the same types of things happen, you know,
where their dreaming mind told them their diagnosis or what
treatment they should use. Even so, all of this, you know,
which they would have called witchery in the.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Past, you know, not us in the works, you know.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
And there's no reason why we can't combine the ancient
types of things with the modern technology.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Absolutely, But you know, one of the things with this
nine year that we're going into, it brings is of
the past up and put some right smack in front
of us. Do we push to get the answers to
it or do we accept it as well? It's just
one of those things. And that's so easy for us
to do right now. What's holding us back is not
(36:17):
believing what we feel to go forward.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
That's so true, that's so true. It does hold us back.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
You know, I've watched so many people give their power
away to docums, you know, take care of me, fix me.
It's not how it works, not at all.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Unfortunately, that's quite true, and you have to fight so
many times just to get the basic things covered and
you will know you feel them, But how do you
express it to somebody else that has their arms crossed
across their chest and they've got their brain tilted on.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
Right right.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
But again, having this relationship with your dreaming mind, I
think gives you the confidence, gives you the power to
take it forward and go, I'm not leaving your office still,
I have this test. That's it, you know, That's what
gave her the best part. Yeah, and she saved her
own life that way because the doctor wasn't going to
was not going to So yeah, I think, you know,
(37:19):
anybody who leaves this kind of power on the table
is doing themselves a big disservice. And do you find
too that dreams change as we age?
Speaker 6 (37:31):
That is a really interesting question.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
And it's funny because I know our sleep patterns and
sleeping changes as we age, so I would think that
it would be reflected within I think, you know, I
think that's very possible. I think for me it mirrors
what I focus on or what is you know, most
in my mind, and that of course has changed with
(37:55):
age and with time as well. It's interesting because I
think the older I get in.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
A weird way. So let me back up for a second.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
I have a rare medical condition, so I've always felt
a connection to the liminal and I loved when you
were talking about the story with the woman, because yes,
our doctors are authorities.
Speaker 6 (38:15):
But we have to be the authorities of.
Speaker 5 (38:17):
Our own bodies and ourselves as well, and that's part
of our subconscious and so being somebody that's been really
keyed into listening to my body and having to advocate
for myself as I get older, you know, and of
course those little aches and pain start coming up and
things like that, and more people around me are experiencing
life threatening illnesses. I do notice that, and I don't
(38:39):
know if that's why, but it could be that connection.
I've been getting more and more dreams of visitations from
the other side, and so that could be an age
related thing as well. But I think it's very possible
that it does change.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
As we Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's
quite possible. I mean, I've seen changes through the years,
and of course it has to do with what I'm
going through at the time, but it is I think
important to be respectful of the where we are in
our lives, and now I know also a lot of
my clients and me included, sometimes it feels like we're
(39:17):
dipping into another reality. It's like it doesn't feel like
a dream. It feels very real. Like the night I
had a dream that I went to visit this house.
I had seen it once and then I went back
to visit it because now it was for sale. I'm
telling you, this dream was very real, and to the
(39:40):
point where when I woke up, I almost asked my husband,
do you remember this house? But I realized he wouldn't
because this was a separate reality I had just kind
of fallen into, and it was pretty clear, and I'm like,
why am I in this reality where there's this house
(40:01):
that I'm supposed to see?
Speaker 4 (40:02):
It was very strange. Do you get stuff like that
with your people too?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I do.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
I do, and I've had that from other people too,
where sometimes it's such a strong feeling that of being
there you almost can't like dissociate yourself from the dream
once you wake up. But you know, if you think
about it, dream world is a very interesting place because
there are not the limitations of time and distance and
(40:27):
things like that that we have when we're waking, right. So,
and they used to call dreaming or sleep the little
death because you were physically there, but you're still your
spirit whatever you want to call it was someplace else.
And I've talked to people too who feel like they
call themselves dream walkers, like they've gone to different places
during their dreams and it's very real to them, and
(40:49):
if you ask them, they can sketch out a picture.
Speaker 6 (40:52):
I've never gone.
Speaker 5 (40:53):
Someplace that looks different than this earth that we're living on,
but I have had that experience with houses where it's
so vivid and so lifelike that it's it's hard for
me to understand was that a memory or a dream?
It gets the lines get very blurred, and I haven't
figured out why that happens, but it's a very interesting phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Yeah, it is. What do you recommend to people to
become lucid?
Speaker 6 (41:16):
Okay, So there's a couple of things.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
A lot of it has to do with paying attention,
quite honestly, one of the most common methods. And I
think doctor Stephen Leberge, who was a pioneer in dream research,
really I think he was the one who initiated this,
but it could be wrong. And that is cues, using
cues throughout the day, And.
Speaker 6 (41:36):
The thought process behind that is.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
If you do these cues or checks throughout the day,
then you'll become so used to them that in your
dreams you will start doing them. So let me give
you an example of what I mean. And I don't
do this in public because people look at you kind
of weird, but I will, you know, if I would
take a break at work and I would, you know,
go use the restroom, I would try poking my finger
through a wall, or every time I would walk under
(41:59):
an arch, I would ask myself internally, am I in
a dream, to the point that it becomes a regular habit,
so that when you're in a dream that you start
asking yourself that, and oh, my goodness, now your finger
does go through the wall, or oh my goodness, you
notice that things are not right per se. But the
other thing that has been very helpful for me is
to notice patterns of dreams, because after a while I realize, oh,
(42:21):
this is.
Speaker 6 (42:22):
The dream I've been having. I'm dreaming. I'm lucid.
Speaker 5 (42:25):
I'll give you an example. I always have for many,
many years, I've had a couple of repetitive dreams. One
is being in an airplane and ending up in the
wrong place. But the other one, and this is horrible,
I arrive at Disneyland right when it's shutting down, or
I get there. I get there and I go on
like the Haunted Mansion, which of course is my favorite ride,
(42:45):
and all it is is someone carrying me in a
little red wagon through their living room.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
Like it's horrible.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
But the thing about that it's disappointing as it is,
is when I've had those dreams now, I've had them
so many times that I'm like, oh, I'm in a
dream now. The one one thing I will say about
lucid dreaming is people often think that when you talk
about lucid dreaming, you're talking about being able to control
your dreams, and that's part of it. But you can
be lucid and not be able to control your dreams.
(43:11):
So there's been times where I've been aware that I'm
in a dream, but it can't change it. And one
of the things that happens to a lot of people
is when they do start to lose ad dream, they
realize they're in a dream and they get excited, and
then the emotion because they get so excited, makes the
lucidity stop, makes the dream go away. So it's you know,
a lot of it too, is being able to temper
your reaction when you realize you're in that dream.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Yeah, it's it's quite a skill to master, and I
think that is definitely a wonderfully advanced type of thing
to pursue because it does give you. They say, whatever
you have control over in your dreams, you can have
control over in your life. So it does make sense
to take those steps in practice, as you mentioned, while
(43:55):
you're awake and go forward. I know some very expert
dream walkers like Carlos Castaneda. There's a wonderful experience that
I heard from a psychiatrist's friend of mine who knew
the research institute who ran this experiment with Carlos, and
(44:15):
again he did all those wonderful books that all became
New York Times best sellers about learning from a Shaman,
and what he called Mexico turns out to be New Mexico.
But anyways, they had I think it was twelve or
fifteen different participants, and they told them just write down
your dreams and if anything unusual happens, call the Institute
(44:39):
in the morning and tell us. And so all of
a sudden, after I don't know, a month and a
half or so, every single one of these participants called
the Institute in the morning and said, last night, Carlos
Castaneda walked into my dream, stuck out his hand and said, hello, Well,
(45:00):
I'm Carlos Castaneda. Call the Institute in the morning. So
talk about dream control, you know, the ability to dream work.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
I mean, he clearly was a master with that.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Yeah, he had his own issues, but he did learn
quite a bit from the shaman, and that was one
of the things he learned. Wow, So we can all
aspire to that. I guess that level of expertise navigating
the dream world, but to contact all of those participants
in one night and the same message is extraordinary.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
Definitely, that's amazing. I hadn't heard that story.
Speaker 5 (45:39):
And it's kind of funny because, like you said, to
do that much work, you must be tired, but you're
doing it in your sleep, so I guess maybe you
don't need the extra rest. But there was a there
was a chapter in my book that talks about dream projection,
which is basically the same thing, and it is. It
is a really fascinating concept, and it shows up in
different myths and things like that too.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
So I think it's been around for a long time.
But that is pretty amazing.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
It is.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
And if you look at the Aboriginal culture, you know,
their dream time such a big part of their lives
and life experience.
Speaker 4 (46:13):
So yeah, you see that these.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Cultures, like I think that is supposed to be the
oldest in the world, isn't it the Aborigines, I think so.
I think so known all of this, they've known how
to do this. So again, very powerful magic, you know,
they all that with computers.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Amazing, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Yeah, yes, yes, exactly. Are there any cautionary tales you
have for people doing dream work.
Speaker 5 (46:43):
I haven't had anybody have any issues come up with
dreamwork that are really major issues. I will tell you
one time, my first husband, my ex husband, I was
trying to work out an issue that was happening and
we ended up in the same dream and we were
(47:04):
both like I think he said, and he said in
the dream, which it wasn't my intent to do that,
but he said, in the dream, we can't we can't
beat up like this again. Not that anything was going on,
but it was just like not intentionally on my part.
I certainly didn't mean to violate his privacy, nor did
he mean violate mine, but just being aware that sometimes
(47:24):
it can take you places that you weren't expecting, and so,
you know, I think that. I also think it can
be very like if you have night terrors, for example,
it can be very terrifying if you're doing dreamwork and
something like that happens.
Speaker 6 (47:39):
But again I think the answer is well, one to really.
Speaker 5 (47:44):
Work on looking at research and things like that to
know how you're going to go about doing it, because
I think there are people that have natural talent for
it and they end up in places or with dreams
that they're just like what happened.
Speaker 6 (47:55):
So I think really doing that part of it, doing
the work.
Speaker 5 (47:59):
But I don't think there's there's nobody that I know
that has ever said, you know, I did this dream
work and horrible things happen.
Speaker 6 (48:05):
So it's a pretty pretty safe.
Speaker 5 (48:08):
I would say it's a safe venture as long as
you don't have any pervading mental health issues. I think
it can be sometimes harmful to people if they're working
through certain mental health issues that maybe bar the lines
of reality a little bit, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Oh sure, I mean, because you don't want them to
get lost in the dreaming reality, thinking it is our
working reality. That's very a very challenging place to be.
But there, I think there's just so much more to
learn about this whole topic. So again, we're very glad
that you're here to talk about it with us and
(48:46):
encourage people to please pay attention to their dreams and
follow the directions. And it's not that hard to figure
out what dreams are meaning. And especially if you get
with a dream group right right.
Speaker 6 (48:59):
Right, that could be very helpful.
Speaker 5 (49:01):
And the other two things I would say is that
if you do have a regular meditation practice, that could
be very helpful in your dream work.
Speaker 6 (49:08):
But also have fun with it. Approach it like play.
Speaker 5 (49:11):
If you're too serious about it, it's really hard, I think,
or if you're really hard on yourself. I want this
to happen perfectly. You have to have some patience and
you have to have some fun with it.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Absolutely, Otherwise it's just more drudgery. Who needs that?
Speaker 4 (49:24):
Right? Nobody say?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
You think many times people try so hard that they
may get harder for themselves.
Speaker 5 (49:34):
Yes, one of those finger traps and the harder you pull.
Speaker 6 (49:37):
Yeah, I kind of think of it, but like that, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, definitely makes good sense.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
Yeah yeah, but it is something.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
How long do you feel people have to be working
with their dreams before they can ask a question and
get an answer to that question.
Speaker 5 (49:54):
That's a really hard question, because I think there are
some people that are more in tune with their dreams,
some that are really starting from scratch. I find that
people that and there's been research to support this. If
you're somebody that's very creative and into creative expression, art, music,
whatever the case may be, sometimes it comes a little
easier to those people. Or if you have a vivid imagination,
(50:14):
but if you don't, it's okay, it may take you
a little bit longer.
Speaker 6 (50:18):
One of the things that I found when I did.
Speaker 5 (50:19):
Start doing a dream journal, I always recommend that people
when they start doing a dream journal, that they wait
a couple of weeks before they look at it, because
then you can go back and see the patterns, and
so I think consistency is key. I can't really give
you a specific amount of time, but I think if
you do this consistently, I would say even within a
matter of months you.
Speaker 6 (50:38):
Could start getting the information that you see.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yeah, well that's that's very good. Yeah, talk about power.
I was living in a condo years ago and I
kept a dream journal religiously. I mean I made the
dream journal myself, you know, out of velvet and all.
This made it really nice. It felt like it belonged
to me. And there was a fire in the condo
(51:01):
and this was on my nightstand and everything around it
burned except.
Speaker 4 (51:08):
The dream journal. Wow.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
So yeah, I still have it. It really taught me
the power you know when you put your intention into
something and you have that strong of a relationship.
Speaker 4 (51:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
I mean the glass melted on the window on one side,
and the bed you know, mattress fires, very hot fires.
Speaker 4 (51:29):
It was in between those two things.
Speaker 6 (51:31):
Wow, it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (51:33):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
So it's powerful everybody. So get this new book. It's
a great book and it is called dream Magic.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
There it is. It's beautiful. I love the cover. So
get it.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
Start paying attention to your dreams, you know, get it
group going in your area. You can now all meet
on Skype or zoom or whatever share your dreams and
that's how you learn what they mean. It's great, great,
techniques to use in a dream group. So yeah, it
all works in our favor. Absolutely, so we're oh my god,
(52:15):
amount of time we.
Speaker 4 (52:16):
Have a minute to wrapp goes by so fast.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
I know.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
It was so much fun having you here.
Speaker 6 (52:21):
Thank you, thank you, I'm talking with you. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (52:25):
It's great.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Keep us posted on your next book, Okay, I will, yes.
And so next week we'll be back again, everybody with
another great show. And until then, we'll see you on
the Blue Highway. Good Night, good night,
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