September 17, 2024 • 54 mins
Kathleen Marden’s insatiable interest in UFOs and ET contact began in 1961, when her aunt and uncle Betty and Barney Hill had a close encounter and UFO abduction in New Hampshire’s White Mountains. As a family member, Kathleen gained firsthand knowledge of Betty’s and Barney’s UFO encounter on the day they arrived home and two days later she, her parents, and siblings visited the Hill’s home. She has devoted years to painstaking investigation of the Hills' anomalous events and archival research on their UFO abduction case. As the trustee of Betty’s estate, she selected files from Betty’s personal archival collection for a permanent collection at the Milne Special Collections Library, UNH Library, University of New Hampshire, Durham, NH. You will find her case study of the evidence in her book with Stanton Friedman, "Captured! The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience" (Updated in 2021). Since 1991 she has volunteered for the Mutual UFO Network in various positions such as Director of Field Investigator Training and Founder/Director of MUFON's Experiencer Resource Team. Over a ten-year period, Kathleen expanded her team from three members to forty-five trained, seasoned specialists and attracted PhD and MD psychological and research consultants. Additionally, she sat on the Edgar Mitchell Free Advisory Board. In this period, she worked on three studies on nearly 5,000 experiencers (Marden-Stoner, Edgar Mitchell FREE, MUFON ERT). She is presently working on the "Marden-Barton Survey of Religious Belief and Extraterrestrial Life," which is available on her website. Her personal struggle with the unknown has carried her through the twists, turns and glimpses of mysterious realities. Until now she has concealed her knowledge because the power of disinformation and ridicule runs deep in its mission to enforce pervasive ignorance and limit access to secret knowledge. Most fascinating, she and a team of researchers carried out a multi-year communication experiment in search of answers to their many questions on why extraterrestrials are visiting our planet, how long they have been here, and why they have been concealing Forbidden Knowledge. She has appeared as an on-camera commentator on fifty-five television and video productions. (See IMDb’s list at Kathleen Marden - IMDb/) Additionally, she has spoken on innumerable radio shows and podcasts and has lectured across the United States and to audiences in foreign countries. She has authored and coauthored numerous books and articles in UFO magazines and journals. Two of her books are available in foreign languages. She is the recipient of two major awards (MUFON and the International UFO Congress Lifetime Achievement Award), for her years of dedicated work. For additional information see her website at www.kathleen-marden.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Arch angels, ghosts, and Bigfoot. Oh why, it's just another
night for Supernatural Girls and real stories, real answers to
life's biggest supernatural mysteries. And now for another exciting interview
with paranormal experts from this world and others. Here's your host,
paranormal researcher Patricia Baker on the One the Only Supernatural Girls.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome everyone to another exciting episode of Supernatural Girls. I'm
your host, Patricia Baker, and I am here without pque
this evening. Miss Quay as a doctor's appointment, which unfortunately
is at the same time as the show. As many
of you know, PK's had terrible back issues and lots
(01:11):
and lots of pain that goes with that, so she
is trying to get all of that rectified. And I
know we all hope that she is feeling better after
her doctor's appointment today. So we miss you, PK, and
we hope you're having some success with your new doctor.
And tonight, everybody, we have a tremendous guest, Kathleen Martin
(01:34):
is with us and we're going to jump right into it.
I'm going to tell you a little bit about our
dear Kathleen, her insatiable interest in UFOs and et contact
began in nineteen sixty one when her aunt and uncle,
Betty and Barney Hill, had a close encounter and UFO
abduction in New Hampshire's White Mountains. As a family member,
(01:57):
Kathleen gained first hand knowledge of Betty's and Barney's UFO
encounter on the day they arrived home, and two days
later she her parents and siblings visited the Hills home.
She has devoted years to painstaking investigation of the hills
anomalous events and archival research on their UFO abduction case.
(02:22):
As the trustee of Betty's estate, she selected files from
Betty's personal archival collection for a permanent collection at the
Milni Special Collections Library that's at the University of New Hampshire.
So anyways, you will find her case study of the
(02:45):
evidence in her book with Stanton Freeman, Captured the Betty
and Barney Hill UFO Experience, which was updated in twenty
twenty one. Now, it's also very important to know since
nineteen ninety one she has volunteered for the Mutual UFO
Network in various positions such as Director Field Investigator Training
and Founder Director of Muffon's Experiencer Resource Team. Over ten
(03:10):
year period, Kathleen expanded her team from three members to
forty five trained, seasoned specialists and attracted PhD and MD
psychological and research consultants. Additionally, she sat on the Edgar
Mitchell Free Advisory Board. In this period, she worked on
three studies on nearly five thousand experiencers. So, my god,
(03:35):
I could just keep reading here this goes on. However,
I think I'd rather talk to Kathleen directly, and I
know you really want to hear from her because we're
going to be talking tonight about how abduction experiences have
changed through the years. So Kathleen, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
That's so great gat to be with you, to have
you here. I know PK's gonna be so sad you
missed you that anyways, you know, there's this subject has
just exploded, as you well know. Yes, absolutely a lot
of answers, nor do we expect any from the government,
but you have such a wealth of information about all
(04:19):
of this. And by the way, I wanted to say,
I thought you did a great job of taking Stephen
Greer to task for his statement about Betty and Barney
Hill's abduction not being a true et abduction. I thought
that was very strange statement for him to make, and
I'm really glad that you put it out there to
(04:41):
correct it.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So I thought that it was extraordinarily important. He was
apparently given this information by a whistleblower, and not all
whistleblowers are honest. And you know, Betty and Barney had
a tremendous amount of evidence, and my new book has
even more scientific evaluation of the evidence with some really
(05:07):
exciting findings. So there's no doubt. I don't know how
that can be any doubt in anyone's mind that this
was a military abduction or a staged abduction by some
black ops program exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Well, I'm so glad that you made it public and
the way you corrected it, and I was impressed with
your response. I never doubted for a second that Betty
and Barney had the experience that they did, So good
for you.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Frighten those people right out. It needs straightening out sometimes,
don't they.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, you know, I do it respectfully, and I do
it with colleagues. There are some people that I don't
even respond to because they're a group of jackals who
are ready to jump in for an attack, and I
know who they are. So it's completely useless to respond
to anyone like that. But if it's a respected colleague,
(06:11):
then I certainly will respond with the facts.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yes, well, good for you, Good for you. So there's
been many years of these experiencers reporting on their contacts
and their abductions, and things have changed. I mean, that's
I think going to be a very interesting topic tonight
because wherever these reports started coming in and where we
are today, things were different. So what could you say
(06:39):
about that.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Well, they absolutely are because you know, in the beginning,
as the early investigators researchers started to look at all
of this, the military jumped in and all you heard
about was the Space Brothers and Space Sisters as they
(07:04):
were called. They were kind, benevolent, and wanted to assist
humanity in advancing our civilization, and the government saw that
as a threat. They was during our Cold War with Russia.
It was all anti communists. They were viewing this kind
(07:25):
of philosophy as a communistic and so therefore they just
jumped in and they ruined the credibility of anyone who
claimed to have contact with these types of human like
or Nordic type entities.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Some specific examples about how they did that, because I
from what I heard some of these stories and I
believe them. They were pretty nasty about the way they
went after these people's character.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Oh yes, absolutely. With George Adanski, for example, Donald Menzil,
doctor Donald Menzil, who is reputed to have been on
MJ twelve and who was a debunker. He had close
(08:25):
ties to the CIA and the NSA, it was naval
intelligence prior to that, and very long history with this.
But he was always involved in this, working very closely
(08:47):
with the government as he was a astrophysicist at Harvard
head of the observatory and had used government funding to
set up observing tories in California and New Mexico as well.
So he was pretty tight and working with the Pentagon
(09:11):
and doing their bidding. And so he would go in
with these individuals and destroy their credibility by explaining it away.
Either as this person first of all, that did not
(09:34):
come did not grow up in the United States, came
from another country. We know that he was a hoaxer
there or he was a fraud and he George Danski
was a meditator that's true. He was a spiritual individual
(09:58):
and they know he ran like a hot dog stand
at the bottom of Mount Palomar, and he had a
group of individuals who really adored him, and they were
all together sort of as a group, and Damski took
(10:20):
photographs and those were debunked as being fakes. Then we
go on to one of the early people who was
I think believe he's still alive over in Europe, who
(10:42):
was called a cult leader. And as I looked into
his background on there were records that were presented stating
that he had left his country. He had gone I
think it was to Italy and committed crimes and he
(11:03):
was spent most of his life in prison. And and
then when he came out of prison, he started saying
that he was seeing UFOs and taking photographs of them.
And people who have been around him that I know
who have met him, who are highly credible individuals, say
(11:26):
he is one hundred percent real. Now his ex wife
said that his photograph was hoped. But you know, so
you have this, you have these always have a history
of these two sides who are going loggerhood heads with
one another. One side would be UFO investigators, the other
(11:51):
side would be disinformants, right, and and you know, the
disinformants demanded equal time. The disinformants often were touted as
and sometimes they were highly educated and connected with the government,
(12:14):
highly respected individuals, where as the ufologists, regardless of how
well educated they were, such as Stanton Friedman, who had
a master's degree in nuclear physics, who worked in private
(12:36):
industry for fourteen years as a physicist, who advanced in
his career and became a senior physicist, ended up being
called names by Donald Menzil. He said, you can't be
a scientist. No scientist would believe that this was real.
(12:58):
By Philip klass Us, who was the number one anti
UFO propagandist of the twentieth century, who wrote to the
Canadian government and told the Canadian government that Stanton was
a fraud, compared him to a snake, snake oil salesman,
(13:23):
that sort of thing. Philip class, Yes, it is terrible.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's one of the worst, or in the government's eyes,
one of the best, in terms of how he would
go after people. But it's heartbreaking because here are people
trying to share a personal story that has no other
reference points, and they want to help have help in
making sense out of it, and all their finding is fingerpointing, accusations,
(13:52):
and these disinformants and government agents trying to destroy their
reputation in front of their own community, in front of
their own families. It's really horrible, and they were.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Highly successful with people who did not know them. I
thought they were frauds for years until I talked to
highly credible people who said, no, that was all false propaganda. So,
you know, it's sort of changed my mind and made
me realize that disinformation was coming from the military. Before
(14:34):
I realized that it was.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
What do you think it was back then that so
many years ago that scared them so much that they
had to spend all of our tax dollars in this
way to hurt private citizens.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Well, when UFOs hovered over Washington, d C. Were chased
by two fighter jets seen by many many people. That
was nineteen fifty two, and that was the point at
which the government really stepped in. The CIA stepped in.
(15:14):
They formed the Robertson Panel that met in January of
nineteen fifty three. They had a few Air Force cases.
The Air Force officers who were in charge stated that
they didn't realize the magnitude of what this study was,
(15:35):
or they would have taken the time to look through
more cases to present the best cases that they had.
But they presented cases. This was a small committee of
government scientists, of CIA agents and representatives from Project blue
(15:57):
Book such as Allen Heineck was there and Edward Rupelt,
who was the head of Project Blue Book at the time.
He was there, some government well, it was Pentagon officials,
and the decision ended up being made that none of
(16:21):
the evidence was good enough for the scientists and that
they had a mission, and that mission was to give
disinformation to the public. What they wanted to do is
to have scientists write newspaper articles or make public statements
(16:42):
or write books saying that there is a conventional explanation
for all of this, that it's mispresent perception, it's temperature inversions,
its mass hysteria. Yes there's another one. So it was
(17:03):
a federal program, and that program has never ended as
far as I'm aware. And so even though we're now
having a congressional investigation for the first time in years,
and Congress is very interested, they're kind of doubling down
(17:23):
on this. Whereas the Pentagon has given them nothing but pushback,
and even when people spoke up, they were criticized. When
people gave sworn testimony, they ended up being criticized. So,
(17:47):
you know, it's it's really unfortunate this has happened.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's always like, you know, abductees' experiencers are always trying
to climb out of a hole, and that's a very
very difficult position to be in. Also trying to integrate
something that's very difficult to integrate, which is, you know,
who did I meet with? What were these things? Were
they et s or the interdimensionals? What do they want
with me? You know, memories, you know, wipes where they
(18:17):
can't remember everything that happened. So it's a very challenging thing.
And a lot of these experiences have had to be
really strong.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
They have absolutely you know. And when David Grush went
before Congress and gave his testimony, two members, two people
that he had formerly worked with from the Pentagon, gave
medical information about him that to try to destroy his credibility.
(18:51):
You know, he'd been over in the war in the
Middle East, and he, like everybody else, had PTSD. If
you didn't come home with traumatic stress, there was something
wrong with you in my opinion, and so you know,
the military would discourage people from seeking treatment for that
(19:13):
kind of thing, but he did seek treatment, and as
a result of that, there were terrible stories put out
about him to make him look like he was unstable
and unreliable because he gave more information than anyone else.
(19:34):
He talked about bodies, he talked about crashed UFOs, non
human DNA, that sort of thing, and the Pentagon just
kind of went nuts over it, I guess, And yeah,
to destroy him.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
It is such a war over who's going to control this. Yes,
certainly our government and military has tried to control and
they've done it pretty successfully for a long period of time. However,
in the last ten years or so, when people have
seen what's really going on with the government and how
they've been basically trying to pull the blinds over all
(20:16):
of our eyes on so many things, I think that
this whole UFO field is a perfect example that now
people see, this whole process has radiated out through just
about every department where we have to question who's telling
us the truth? Is anybody telling us the truth? And
(20:37):
it certainly does force us back on our own experiences,
and like you said, when you talk to credible people,
you realize that these people that you were told to
think of as fakes were not right.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
And you know, when military whistleblowers testify under oath before Congress,
I believe them because they will say, I can't tell
you this because it's still classified. We would have to
have a private meeting to discuss classified information. So they
(21:14):
will say that. I mean, you look at lou Elizondo,
for example. I believe him, and he always says, you know,
I can't give you the answer to that it's classified
or I just don't know the answer. And you know,
there are some some people who I believe are very
(21:36):
trustworthy and I admire, who have worked in high level
positions for the government.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Right, well, that's good, and unfortunately most people don't have
access to them. You do, which, thank goodness, you do,
so you can set us straight about some of these
things and give us the right information. But as time
went on, so they started out with this character assassination,
but I've also heard that even before the characters, they
(22:09):
would actually assassinate people that they felt were about to
tell some information they did not want told. So you
were you aware of that.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Also, David Grush testified that people had been assassinated over
this topic.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Which is also very frightening. Yes it is now. So
as time went on, so we have the assassinations and
we have the character assassinations that again, I want to stress,
took place in front of people's family, friends, and community.
So they didn't just stop at your little network. They
went out into the community to try to destroy people's
(22:51):
reputations there. But then what happened, did anything? What shifted?
What changed is you don't see that as much anymore.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Well. I think that the Internet intervened and people became
more aware of the truth. Ancient Aliens is on television
now and there are other credible shows where they will
tell the truth about this. They're pretty cautious though, they're
(23:24):
not showing pictures of non humans or anything like that,
which they know I have some in my possession. I'm
sure others do as well from my own personal cases. So,
but they do not like it if I show something
like that. I've been threatened over it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And so give us an example of how they would
have communicated that threat to you face to face. Wow,
So they would just come right up to you, and
what would they say you're done.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
If you say anything more about this, we will harm
you and will harm your family. That's basically that kind
of line. I don't even know who's doing it, but
I've been threatened a few times over the years. But
I am going to continue. And my attitude is that
(24:22):
if they want to kill me, kill me, you know,
murder me. So if I die, it's not suicide.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I want everyone to know that.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
But just said that, I've heard that the first time
you've had to say that, So people understand. Yes, And God,
you better stay away from Kathleen, everybody. You've got friends
on all sides here.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I do.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I have friends who have been high ranking officers in
the military. Yes, I have a lot of different friends
who kind of watch my back for me as well.
And I have a very good security system, and I'm
very quiet about anyone except for myself or deceased family members,
(25:12):
and so that's the way I operate. But it's extraordinarily
important to me to disseminate the truth and the evidence
to those individuals who want that, who are interested, who
are willing to accept that level of information. I'm not
trying to convince that John Q Public about this. I
(25:37):
think the general public can believe whatever they want. And
there are those who believe that they're all demons, to
those who don't believe they exist, to those who are
beginning to believe that they exist but have very little
knowledge about it. So you have all levels of education
(25:57):
and knowledge in the general population. Those are not the
people who are listening to me, right, It's people who
have an interest.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
In learning, yes, and understanding who we are. Yes, that's
a big part of this is understanding where we came from.
Who are Our relationship is quite intimate with at least
some of the EH's, maybe more than we even know.
But yeah, I mean I've mentioned this before, but they're
(26:29):
you know, Bigelow's group. He has been doing some They
did a whole big life after Death challenge and now
they're doing another kind of challenge. And one of the
questions they were asking in their new challenge is what
would it take for people to choose spirituality over technology?
And my answer is quite simple. First of all, you
(26:50):
got to tell the truth and stop hiding it. So
the truth is who are we really? And as soon
as we know the answer to who are we really,
we know what our choice is. Going to be, but
keeping that information from us leads us to make poor
choices because we're working on lies, we're not working on
(27:13):
the truth. And if you want people to choose spirit
the value of their own soul, then they have to
understand that value. Yes, all of that history, a lot
of it has been hidden, and Ancient Aliens is one
of the shows that has worked to change that.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Yes, And you know, I believe that you have to
choose love rather than hatred, warfare, all of that. And
we're in a very difficult situation over that. So it's
not just choosing spirituality or technology. You can use technology
(27:50):
for many positive things, not just to destroy. And I
don't know what it's going to take. I know that
many people around the world are awakening and becoming more spiritual.
And in the three studies that I've worked on, we've
discovered that one of the changes that experiencers undergo nearly
(28:16):
everyone is an increase in their level of spirituality. They
become more psychic, they become empathic, so you know, it's
a lot of positive traits. You become ill too, but
you can be healed at a highly significant rate.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yes, it's wonderful, right, So things as you mentioned, have
changed because of the Internet, which is good, and also
cell phones with cameras have changed a lot, because from
what I heard from one ex FBI agent is that
(28:54):
they finally gave up trying to suppress a lot of
these things because in the blink of an eye, that
photograph has gone around the world or that video or
whatever that shows these crafts and has a detailed explanation
from the experience or that's out and they can't stop it.
(29:15):
So I think they've kind of given up on that
aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
They used to take people's video and photographs and they'd
never be returned, so that is a significant difference. But
I think also we have a network of experiencers now.
John Mack worked on that. After he passed away, there
(29:46):
was kind of a lag for a while. Barbara Lamb
was working on it, and then I thought when I
initiated the experience or research team for Moufon and over
the ten years when I was doing that, we did
(30:07):
an excellent job. I think of finding credible support groups
where people even online can join together. You can interact
with one another. If you have a person that you trust,
they might live across the United States, from you. But still,
(30:31):
when you have an experience, you can call that person
and they can call you and you can share that
bond together give each other that support, or you can
do that in a support online support group. Some of
them meet face to face too, but the online groups
(30:51):
are wonderful because you don't have to travel. You can
be there. On Zoom we compile a list of licensed
psychotherapists who use hypnosis who work with experiencers who are
suffering from trauma, also with certified hypnotherapists who are very
(31:17):
well trained in working with experiencers, and also quantum healing
hypnosis practitioners as well and so and Opus has that
list as well. Lester Villez is the head of Opus Opus.
(31:38):
Many of the people who used to work on my
team are now volunteers for Opus. And you can go
there with complete confidentiality. Your report is never going to
be posted anywhere, and you can receive referrals. You'll talk
one on one with a very helpful, caring individual. So important, Yeah,
(32:04):
it is extraordinarily important.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
It's one of the biggest problems with the old time
experiences is that it also threw people into intense isolation
where they didn't know they could talk to and certainly
even their own families they didn't feel they could tell sometimes.
So yeah, it's what you guys also have worked to create.
You know, has been so so helpful and it's kind
(32:28):
of softened this whole experience for people so they can
work with it, they can deal with it in a
very positive type of way. So what are you seeing
now with people who have experiences and are talking about them.
They're getting more support, which is good, so they're more
likely to talk about it. But what about the experiences themselves,
(32:51):
Because in the past there was a lot of harvesting
of eggs and sperm and this and that, and you know,
testing the third eye for how much life it was
producing and other things. How have these experiences changed since then?
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Well, I think that we know more about this and
people are more willing to share their information confidentially. It's
not defending themselves because they're being investigated. Well, Moufon has
changed it rules, so now you have to be investigated
(33:27):
before you can get the help with Moufon. That's why
I would recommend Opus. But today people have a higher
level of knowledge, people are older. I mean, we've been
taken over a lifetime. We know that about seventy five
percent of experiences were less than twenty years old when
(33:51):
they were taken for the first time, according to our
Moufon study on that at five hundred and sixteen experiencers.
And over a lifetime, you develop a relationship and as
you grow, you learn, you become more knowledgeable, you can
(34:12):
establish a more positive relationship. You begin to view yourself differently.
You're no longer a lab rat on a table who's
being exploited, but you're an individual who might have volunteered
to do this before you even came into this lifetime.
(34:33):
And you are being given information from these non humans,
especially from your escort, the one that you see over
and over again, who's also an educator, who is giving
you information about why they're here. And you know, for
(34:53):
the most part, for years, they've been showing images of
nuclear destruction on Earth, of environmental collapse, that sort of thing.
But they give messages such as, your level of spiritual
(35:16):
growth is out of sync with your technological development, and
when we see this occurring, it could lead to the
annihilation of life on the planet, and we don't want
to see that. They've told us that they work quietly
because they fear that they know that they would be
(35:38):
perceived as an invader or as an enemy to the
nations around the world, to the military forces who don't
want them here, who don't want to cooperate with them.
Way back in nineteen fifty four, they had a military
contact where they offer to give assistance to us, to
(36:04):
teach us, and that was completely rejected by the government.
The information went to Dwight Eisenhower and it was looked into,
and the CIA was even shown craft, but they did
not trust this non human alien groups. Yes, I say groups,
(36:31):
more than one group.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
And from what I understood with Eisenhower, he was of
the mindset that people would just not be able to
handle this if they knew the truth. And I know
that's a big bunch of nonsense that's been propagated for years,
and I've always disagreed with it. I think, well, you know,
it would have been a bit of a shock for
people back in the forties and fifties, but certainly not today.
(36:58):
I mean, I think, yesligion would have some explaining to
do and things like that, but overall, if you look
at the media, you know, and all these movies and
television shows, And I mean they've made it much more
comfortable and interesting to us on the planet to welcome visitors.
So and they're probably much more than visitors.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
WoT. Yes, I don't think that they hop back and
forth from this planet to their planet. They're around to stay,
they're around. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, And so I don't think it would be any
you know, war of the world or any of what
some people have predicted. Some have said they've run all
the algorithms on it, and if people knew, it would
be terrible. I don't get that. I don't see that.
I don't agree with that position, because how can we mature,
how can we grow up unless, again, we are on
(37:51):
a solid foundation of truth.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
And I think that most young people realize that we
are being visited. They grow up with that kind of knowledge.
But you know, it's just people who belong to very
conservative religious groups who believe all of this is demonic.
And unfortunately, there are members of fundamentalist religious organizations at
(38:21):
the Pentagon who believe it's all demonic and want to
cast it that way based upon religious belief. What happened
to the division between church and state. You have the
church running the program at the Pentagon, So I mean
(38:42):
that has to be dealt with.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
We have to.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Stop the military from being so fearful, from taking such
a negative view, believing that we are going to be
invaded and used for whatever purpose. These entities have beeneled
round for a long long time, and if they wanted
to do that, they would have done it already.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Exactly exactly. I don't think we have to worry about
them turning us into slaves. We're already there and it's
not the aliens that did it. So yeah, we need
to open our eyes and know what's going on. Because
when I way back when I first got involved with US,
I mean talking forty years ago, you know it, To me,
(39:31):
it looked like this was the only place where everything
was being hidden from us, where the truth wasn't coming out.
But of course as I grew up and I got older,
I saw that it's in every single department of the government.
There is so much manipulation, there is so much sleight
of hand, there is so much greed. Talking about even
(39:53):
Congress wanting to get into the whole UFO thing. One
of the thoughts that crossed my mind was, oh, Okay,
it's because they're not making money. From this. They want
in on it because they know there's money to be made.
And if you look at war mongering, you know why
because there's money to be made. And now I'm looking
(40:13):
at the people in Congress and who they are and
what they've been doing, and I'm thinking, why would they
care about UFOs unless they thought they were missing out
on something with money to be made. It's just I
don't see anybody on that level that is working for us,
you know, like it's supposed to be. Yeah, anymore, it's disappeared.
(40:34):
And that one little pocket that I thought was just
true of the UFO field is true in my view
the world of everything to do with governments, that's a
sad place to be.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
I know there's a lot of nasty business going on,
but I'm not as cynical as you.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Oh goodness, I know that.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
That the Pentagon has covered all of this up for
private industry to back engineer UFO technology from crashed saucers,
that sort of thing. In terms of Congress, I don't know.
Maybe I just uh am too accepting, but I just
(41:21):
loved watching David Fraver and David Grush and the other
people who testified before Congress and and Adam Schiff's new statements.
The I think that they really want to know what
(41:43):
is occurring. They're trying to get a grasp on that.
Maybe they're also thinking about they how they want to
get a grasp into the stock market. Yes, maybe I
don't know, but yea, so well.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I love that you're not as cynical as I am,
and I'm relieved. But I also see this as it's
wonderful that you again have been foremost in the world
and creating these groups for people who are having these experiences,
and they can now settle with them, they can be
(42:22):
at peace with them, they can learn from them, they
can grow, because isn't that what this is all about,
as we are supposed to grow and mature as souls
and spiritual beings and to really acknowledge where we come from.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Absolutely, and you know, the whole power structure has changed.
What we used to have would be the experiencer and
the investigator on one side, and then you would have
a blue ribbon panel where skeptical eufhologists and disinformants would
(42:58):
form this blue ribbon panel and they would examine the
evidence and determine whether or not this person really had
the experience and that was complete belgey because it was
so dismissive of individuals and who deserves to be judged.
(43:20):
Most people don't want to go public with this. Nothing
to be gained, there's wanted and a lot to be
lost as a result of going public with this. Most
people are just looking for some support, some comfort, someone
they can trust to hear their experience, and oftentimes they're
(43:43):
fearful of even making a report with a UFO organization
because of the possibility that their information might be revealed
through a violation of confidentiality, as it was with my
aunt and uncle Betty and Barney Ill and so many others.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yes, yes, that wasn't good. No yeah, so yeah, I mean,
thank goodness again for you and what your your work
has brought to us. But now it does seem like
there's more opportunities for people to learn from their own experiences.
But how are you also seeing the amount of people
(44:26):
the numbers are they going down, are they staying the same,
or are they going up for experiences and I'm talking
about i'll call it the abduction experience where they're taken.
Do you see that has increased or decreased or stayed
the same.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Well, it's really hard for me to calculate that because
when I was director of the ERT, we would have
up to one hundred people per month who would contact
us for confidential conversation, sometimes up to one hundred and
fifty a month, And so you know that was quite
(45:02):
a number of people coming in per month over a
ten year period, right, So, but many of them were
individuals who had been holding this inside for years, sorry
the mosquito in front of me, that thing, right for years,
(45:24):
and I hadn't trusted anyone, hadn't been able to process
what they had been through. And so now this opportunity
was available, and they trusted me as the head of
this group, knowing my background, my family background. I think
(45:46):
it just flew into my mouth. Oh no, what a
thing to happen on care Oh well, so anyway, everything
has changed.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Well I'm glad it's changed somewhat for the better. Then,
And let me ask you this, and I don't mean
to put you on the spot at all, but is
there anything you can share with us that surprised you
from some of the people that you trust.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
In terms of people I've I've helped her who worked
on my.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Team, or anything to do with an enlightening experience, you know,
finding out new information, whether it be from an experiencer
or from a whistleblower or somebody else you could trust,
like a David Grush type of person. I mean, anything
that they told you that was like, wow, that's a surprise.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Well, uh. There there were a couple of cases that
I worked on where the one of the people actually
was able to take video of an ORB that he
had been requesting. He'd been requesting healing. This beautiful light
(47:12):
blue orb with an acrew center, flew down his wall
like a butterfly across his room, hovered a moment over
his body, put down these irridescent tendrils, dove into his body,
and cured his cancer with the medical records to go
(47:33):
along with it.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
That's perfect.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
That was wonderful. Also, a group two researchers who were
meeting with a confirmed experiencer who was able to call
in craft came in and they thought that they would
be able to collect EVPs. They had Bell and Howell
(47:56):
camera set up in one part of the yard. They
were holding a thirty five millimeter camera. A craft did
start to come in and it was coming in closer
and closer, and all of a sudden they were no
longer holding the equipment in their hands. They were nauseated,
(48:17):
swaying back and forth. They picked up the equipment, picked
up the bell and howel camera went into the experiencer's
home and his wife said, where have you been? They said,
just outside, and she said, no, you weren't. I was
looking for you. You weren't there, And she said, do
(48:37):
you know what time it is? It was one o'clock.
They were missing two hours time, probably maybe a little
bit less than two hours time, and there was EVP evidence.
There was also evidence for a few seconds on the
(48:58):
Bell and Howeld camera of non human entities coming in.
There were two beams of indigo colored light that shot
across the screen. You could see entities that were not
fully materialized dropping off these beams and then materializing. There
(49:26):
was one who was sitting on the ground, had some
kind of technological equipment on his back, attached to his feet,
and wearing something on his head. He was enveloped in
blue light and then lifted into the air and he
had a blue light in one hand, and he just
(49:46):
crossed in front of that screen, moving back and forth
looking both ways. And I'm not even sure if he
was an avian or if he was a mantis type,
but he you know, he had that snout, he was
a golden colored, the large dark eyes. Just really amazing
(50:11):
evidence that I've been able to collect from just a
handful of people out of probably a few thousand that
I've spoken with. But when somebody is very interested in
collecting evidence and they have a compelling experience, I train
them and I stay with them while they collect this,
(50:34):
and then I have people analyze it.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
It's not just me.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
And I've written in my book Extraterrestrial Contact, What to
Do when You've been adopted, all about that how to
do it. It's written specifically for experiencers to learn, how
to process, to learn different qualities that experience is develop
(51:01):
over time as experiencers that are not common in the
general population. The paranormal overlay, the intelligent orbs in your environment,
the sensation that something unseen is walking on your bed.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Well, that's a very helpful book. This is one of
many that you've written, so for people who are looking
for Kathleen's books, they're all available on Amazon dot com.
But certainly what to do if you have. This experience
is very important. Hey, the police just got a new
handbook about UFOs and how to sign and send in
a report and all kinds of things. Now that's a
(51:41):
first that I've heard. But it's important for people because
I hope that more and more ET's and interdimensionals will
reach out to people like us rather than going to
the government.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
And people around the world are meeting together in CE
five groups. Craft sometimes does come in. Sometimes the individuals
see the non humans on the craft. In some gatherings,
there have been non humans who have come in and
(52:19):
communicated telepathically with people in the group, And the ETS
say that it is not the governments who are going
to reveal their presence, that when more than fifty percent
of the people on this planet have reached the tipping
(52:40):
point where they know that this is real, then there
will be more disclosure.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
So it's going to force their hand. Yeah, that makes
perfect sense, because they're certainly not committed to telling us anything,
and this is not about them wanting to help us
or inform us in any way. So we all need
to just come to terms with that, that's for sure.
But thank you, Kathleen. This has been delightful and it's
gone in the blink of an eye. I feel you
(53:08):
just got here, so so wonderful to talk to you,
and I'm glad you too. Thank you, thank you so much.
But will you please come back and I please stay
healthy and please come back so we can talk more
about all of this, because I know I'm going to
get a lot of questions once people see the show
when it's convenient for them to watch it, because I
(53:29):
know this has been during their dinner hour. But anyways,
this has been absolutely great. Thank you so much, my pleasure.
You're one of the best in this field and it's
an honor for me to have you here tonight. Thank
you so much, thank you, and next week we'll be
back next week with another great show. James Gilliland is
(53:50):
going to be joining us, telling us about the adventures
on his ranch out in California. Is wild, it's crazy,
it's great. You're going to love it. So we'll see
next week. Until then, see you on the Blue Highway.
Good night everyone.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
H
Arch angels, ghosts, and Bigfoot. Oh why, it's just another
night for Supernatural Girls and real stories, real answers to
life's biggest supernatural mysteries. And now for another exciting interview
with paranormal experts from this world and others. Here's your host,
paranormal researcher Patricia Baker on the One the Only Supernatural Girls.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome everyone to another exciting episode of Supernatural Girls. I'm
your host, Patricia Baker, and I am here without pque
this evening. Miss Quay as a doctor's appointment, which unfortunately
is at the same time as the show. As many
of you know, PK's had terrible back issues and lots
(01:11):
and lots of pain that goes with that, so she
is trying to get all of that rectified. And I
know we all hope that she is feeling better after
her doctor's appointment today. So we miss you, PK, and
we hope you're having some success with your new doctor.
And tonight, everybody, we have a tremendous guest, Kathleen Martin
(01:34):
is with us and we're going to jump right into it.
I'm going to tell you a little bit about our
dear Kathleen, her insatiable interest in UFOs and et contact
began in nineteen sixty one when her aunt and uncle,
Betty and Barney Hill, had a close encounter and UFO
abduction in New Hampshire's White Mountains. As a family member,
(01:57):
Kathleen gained first hand knowledge of Betty's and Barney's UFO
encounter on the day they arrived home, and two days
later she her parents and siblings visited the Hills home.
She has devoted years to painstaking investigation of the hills
anomalous events and archival research on their UFO abduction case.
(02:22):
As the trustee of Betty's estate, she selected files from
Betty's personal archival collection for a permanent collection at the
Milni Special Collections Library that's at the University of New Hampshire.
So anyways, you will find her case study of the
(02:45):
evidence in her book with Stanton Freeman, Captured the Betty
and Barney Hill UFO Experience, which was updated in twenty
twenty one. Now, it's also very important to know since
nineteen ninety one she has volunteered for the Mutual UFO
Network in various positions such as Director Field Investigator Training
and Founder Director of Muffon's Experiencer Resource Team. Over ten
(03:10):
year period, Kathleen expanded her team from three members to
forty five trained, seasoned specialists and attracted PhD and MD
psychological and research consultants. Additionally, she sat on the Edgar
Mitchell Free Advisory Board. In this period, she worked on
three studies on nearly five thousand experiencers. So, my god,
(03:35):
I could just keep reading here this goes on. However,
I think I'd rather talk to Kathleen directly, and I
know you really want to hear from her because we're
going to be talking tonight about how abduction experiences have
changed through the years. So Kathleen, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
That's so great gat to be with you, to have
you here. I know PK's gonna be so sad you
missed you that anyways, you know, there's this subject has
just exploded, as you well know. Yes, absolutely a lot
of answers, nor do we expect any from the government,
but you have such a wealth of information about all
(04:19):
of this. And by the way, I wanted to say,
I thought you did a great job of taking Stephen
Greer to task for his statement about Betty and Barney
Hill's abduction not being a true et abduction. I thought
that was very strange statement for him to make, and
I'm really glad that you put it out there to
(04:41):
correct it.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So I thought that it was extraordinarily important. He was
apparently given this information by a whistleblower, and not all
whistleblowers are honest. And you know, Betty and Barney had
a tremendous amount of evidence, and my new book has
even more scientific evaluation of the evidence with some really
(05:07):
exciting findings. So there's no doubt. I don't know how
that can be any doubt in anyone's mind that this
was a military abduction or a staged abduction by some
black ops program exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Well, I'm so glad that you made it public and
the way you corrected it, and I was impressed with
your response. I never doubted for a second that Betty
and Barney had the experience that they did, So good
for you.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Frighten those people right out. It needs straightening out sometimes,
don't they.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, you know, I do it respectfully, and I do
it with colleagues. There are some people that I don't
even respond to because they're a group of jackals who
are ready to jump in for an attack, and I
know who they are. So it's completely useless to respond
to anyone like that. But if it's a respected colleague,
(06:11):
then I certainly will respond with the facts.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yes, well, good for you, Good for you. So there's
been many years of these experiencers reporting on their contacts
and their abductions, and things have changed. I mean, that's
I think going to be a very interesting topic tonight
because wherever these reports started coming in and where we
are today, things were different. So what could you say
(06:39):
about that.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Well, they absolutely are because you know, in the beginning,
as the early investigators researchers started to look at all
of this, the military jumped in and all you heard
about was the Space Brothers and Space Sisters as they
(07:04):
were called. They were kind, benevolent, and wanted to assist
humanity in advancing our civilization, and the government saw that
as a threat. They was during our Cold War with Russia.
It was all anti communists. They were viewing this kind
(07:25):
of philosophy as a communistic and so therefore they just
jumped in and they ruined the credibility of anyone who
claimed to have contact with these types of human like
or Nordic type entities.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Some specific examples about how they did that, because I
from what I heard some of these stories and I
believe them. They were pretty nasty about the way they
went after these people's character.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Oh yes, absolutely. With George Adanski, for example, Donald Menzil,
doctor Donald Menzil, who is reputed to have been on
MJ twelve and who was a debunker. He had close
(08:25):
ties to the CIA and the NSA, it was naval
intelligence prior to that, and very long history with this.
But he was always involved in this, working very closely
(08:47):
with the government as he was a astrophysicist at Harvard
head of the observatory and had used government funding to
set up observing tories in California and New Mexico as well.
So he was pretty tight and working with the Pentagon
(09:11):
and doing their bidding. And so he would go in
with these individuals and destroy their credibility by explaining it away.
Either as this person first of all, that did not
(09:34):
come did not grow up in the United States, came
from another country. We know that he was a hoaxer
there or he was a fraud and he George Danski
was a meditator that's true. He was a spiritual individual
(09:58):
and they know he ran like a hot dog stand
at the bottom of Mount Palomar, and he had a
group of individuals who really adored him, and they were
all together sort of as a group, and Damski took
(10:20):
photographs and those were debunked as being fakes. Then we
go on to one of the early people who was
I think believe he's still alive over in Europe, who
(10:42):
was called a cult leader. And as I looked into
his background on there were records that were presented stating
that he had left his country. He had gone I
think it was to Italy and committed crimes and he
(11:03):
was spent most of his life in prison. And and
then when he came out of prison, he started saying
that he was seeing UFOs and taking photographs of them.
And people who have been around him that I know
who have met him, who are highly credible individuals, say
(11:26):
he is one hundred percent real. Now his ex wife
said that his photograph was hoped. But you know, so
you have this, you have these always have a history
of these two sides who are going loggerhood heads with
one another. One side would be UFO investigators, the other
(11:51):
side would be disinformants, right, and and you know, the
disinformants demanded equal time. The disinformants often were touted as
and sometimes they were highly educated and connected with the government,
(12:14):
highly respected individuals, where as the ufologists, regardless of how
well educated they were, such as Stanton Friedman, who had
a master's degree in nuclear physics, who worked in private
(12:36):
industry for fourteen years as a physicist, who advanced in
his career and became a senior physicist, ended up being
called names by Donald Menzil. He said, you can't be
a scientist. No scientist would believe that this was real.
(12:58):
By Philip klass Us, who was the number one anti
UFO propagandist of the twentieth century, who wrote to the
Canadian government and told the Canadian government that Stanton was
a fraud, compared him to a snake, snake oil salesman,
(13:23):
that sort of thing. Philip class, Yes, it is terrible.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's one of the worst, or in the government's eyes,
one of the best, in terms of how he would
go after people. But it's heartbreaking because here are people
trying to share a personal story that has no other
reference points, and they want to help have help in
making sense out of it, and all their finding is fingerpointing, accusations,
(13:52):
and these disinformants and government agents trying to destroy their
reputation in front of their own community, in front of
their own families. It's really horrible, and they were.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Highly successful with people who did not know them. I
thought they were frauds for years until I talked to
highly credible people who said, no, that was all false propaganda. So,
you know, it's sort of changed my mind and made
me realize that disinformation was coming from the military. Before
(14:34):
I realized that it was.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
What do you think it was back then that so
many years ago that scared them so much that they
had to spend all of our tax dollars in this
way to hurt private citizens.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Well, when UFOs hovered over Washington, d C. Were chased
by two fighter jets seen by many many people. That
was nineteen fifty two, and that was the point at
which the government really stepped in. The CIA stepped in.
(15:14):
They formed the Robertson Panel that met in January of
nineteen fifty three. They had a few Air Force cases.
The Air Force officers who were in charge stated that
they didn't realize the magnitude of what this study was,
(15:35):
or they would have taken the time to look through
more cases to present the best cases that they had.
But they presented cases. This was a small committee of
government scientists, of CIA agents and representatives from Project blue
(15:57):
Book such as Allen Heineck was there and Edward Rupelt,
who was the head of Project Blue Book at the time.
He was there, some government well, it was Pentagon officials,
and the decision ended up being made that none of
(16:21):
the evidence was good enough for the scientists and that
they had a mission, and that mission was to give
disinformation to the public. What they wanted to do is
to have scientists write newspaper articles or make public statements
(16:42):
or write books saying that there is a conventional explanation
for all of this, that it's mispresent perception, it's temperature inversions,
its mass hysteria. Yes there's another one. So it was
(17:03):
a federal program, and that program has never ended as
far as I'm aware. And so even though we're now
having a congressional investigation for the first time in years,
and Congress is very interested, they're kind of doubling down
(17:23):
on this. Whereas the Pentagon has given them nothing but pushback,
and even when people spoke up, they were criticized. When
people gave sworn testimony, they ended up being criticized. So,
(17:47):
you know, it's it's really unfortunate this has happened.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's always like, you know, abductees' experiencers are always trying
to climb out of a hole, and that's a very
very difficult position to be in. Also trying to integrate
something that's very difficult to integrate, which is, you know,
who did I meet with? What were these things? Were
they et s or the interdimensionals? What do they want
with me? You know, memories, you know, wipes where they
(18:17):
can't remember everything that happened. So it's a very challenging thing.
And a lot of these experiences have had to be
really strong.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
They have absolutely you know. And when David Grush went
before Congress and gave his testimony, two members, two people
that he had formerly worked with from the Pentagon, gave
medical information about him that to try to destroy his credibility.
(18:51):
You know, he'd been over in the war in the
Middle East, and he, like everybody else, had PTSD. If
you didn't come home with traumatic stress, there was something
wrong with you in my opinion, and so you know,
the military would discourage people from seeking treatment for that
(19:13):
kind of thing, but he did seek treatment, and as
a result of that, there were terrible stories put out
about him to make him look like he was unstable
and unreliable because he gave more information than anyone else.
(19:34):
He talked about bodies, he talked about crashed UFOs, non
human DNA, that sort of thing, and the Pentagon just
kind of went nuts over it, I guess, And yeah,
to destroy him.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
It is such a war over who's going to control this. Yes,
certainly our government and military has tried to control and
they've done it pretty successfully for a long period of time. However,
in the last ten years or so, when people have
seen what's really going on with the government and how
they've been basically trying to pull the blinds over all
(20:16):
of our eyes on so many things, I think that
this whole UFO field is a perfect example that now
people see, this whole process has radiated out through just
about every department where we have to question who's telling
us the truth? Is anybody telling us the truth? And
(20:37):
it certainly does force us back on our own experiences,
and like you said, when you talk to credible people,
you realize that these people that you were told to
think of as fakes were not right.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
And you know, when military whistleblowers testify under oath before Congress,
I believe them because they will say, I can't tell
you this because it's still classified. We would have to
have a private meeting to discuss classified information. So they
(21:14):
will say that. I mean, you look at lou Elizondo,
for example. I believe him, and he always says, you know,
I can't give you the answer to that it's classified
or I just don't know the answer. And you know,
there are some some people who I believe are very
(21:36):
trustworthy and I admire, who have worked in high level
positions for the government.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Right, well, that's good, and unfortunately most people don't have
access to them. You do, which, thank goodness, you do,
so you can set us straight about some of these
things and give us the right information. But as time
went on, so they started out with this character assassination,
but I've also heard that even before the characters, they
(22:09):
would actually assassinate people that they felt were about to
tell some information they did not want told. So you
were you aware of that.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Also, David Grush testified that people had been assassinated over
this topic.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Which is also very frightening. Yes it is now. So
as time went on, so we have the assassinations and
we have the character assassinations that again, I want to stress,
took place in front of people's family, friends, and community.
So they didn't just stop at your little network. They
went out into the community to try to destroy people's
(22:51):
reputations there. But then what happened, did anything? What shifted?
What changed is you don't see that as much anymore.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Well. I think that the Internet intervened and people became
more aware of the truth. Ancient Aliens is on television
now and there are other credible shows where they will
tell the truth about this. They're pretty cautious though, they're
(23:24):
not showing pictures of non humans or anything like that,
which they know I have some in my possession. I'm
sure others do as well from my own personal cases. So,
but they do not like it if I show something
like that. I've been threatened over it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
And so give us an example of how they would
have communicated that threat to you face to face. Wow,
So they would just come right up to you, and
what would they say you're done.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
If you say anything more about this, we will harm
you and will harm your family. That's basically that kind
of line. I don't even know who's doing it, but
I've been threatened a few times over the years. But
I am going to continue. And my attitude is that
(24:22):
if they want to kill me, kill me, you know,
murder me. So if I die, it's not suicide.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I want everyone to know that.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
But just said that, I've heard that the first time
you've had to say that, So people understand. Yes, And God,
you better stay away from Kathleen, everybody. You've got friends
on all sides here.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
I do.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I have friends who have been high ranking officers in
the military. Yes, I have a lot of different friends
who kind of watch my back for me as well.
And I have a very good security system, and I'm
very quiet about anyone except for myself or deceased family members,
(25:12):
and so that's the way I operate. But it's extraordinarily
important to me to disseminate the truth and the evidence
to those individuals who want that, who are interested, who
are willing to accept that level of information. I'm not
trying to convince that John Q Public about this. I
(25:37):
think the general public can believe whatever they want. And
there are those who believe that they're all demons, to
those who don't believe they exist, to those who are
beginning to believe that they exist but have very little
knowledge about it. So you have all levels of education
(25:57):
and knowledge in the general population. Those are not the
people who are listening to me, right, It's people who
have an interest.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
In learning, yes, and understanding who we are. Yes, that's
a big part of this is understanding where we came from.
Who are Our relationship is quite intimate with at least
some of the EH's, maybe more than we even know.
But yeah, I mean I've mentioned this before, but they're
(26:29):
you know, Bigelow's group. He has been doing some They
did a whole big life after Death challenge and now
they're doing another kind of challenge. And one of the
questions they were asking in their new challenge is what
would it take for people to choose spirituality over technology?
And my answer is quite simple. First of all, you
(26:50):
got to tell the truth and stop hiding it. So
the truth is who are we really? And as soon
as we know the answer to who are we really,
we know what our choice is. Going to be, but
keeping that information from us leads us to make poor
choices because we're working on lies, we're not working on
(27:13):
the truth. And if you want people to choose spirit
the value of their own soul, then they have to
understand that value. Yes, all of that history, a lot
of it has been hidden, and Ancient Aliens is one
of the shows that has worked to change that.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Yes, And you know, I believe that you have to
choose love rather than hatred, warfare, all of that. And
we're in a very difficult situation over that. So it's
not just choosing spirituality or technology. You can use technology
(27:50):
for many positive things, not just to destroy. And I
don't know what it's going to take. I know that
many people around the world are awakening and becoming more spiritual.
And in the three studies that I've worked on, we've
discovered that one of the changes that experiencers undergo nearly
(28:16):
everyone is an increase in their level of spirituality. They
become more psychic, they become empathic, so you know, it's
a lot of positive traits. You become ill too, but
you can be healed at a highly significant rate.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yes, it's wonderful, right, So things as you mentioned, have
changed because of the Internet, which is good, and also
cell phones with cameras have changed a lot, because from
what I heard from one ex FBI agent is that
(28:54):
they finally gave up trying to suppress a lot of
these things because in the blink of an eye, that
photograph has gone around the world or that video or
whatever that shows these crafts and has a detailed explanation
from the experience or that's out and they can't stop it.
(29:15):
So I think they've kind of given up on that
aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
They used to take people's video and photographs and they'd
never be returned, so that is a significant difference. But
I think also we have a network of experiencers now.
John Mack worked on that. After he passed away, there
(29:46):
was kind of a lag for a while. Barbara Lamb
was working on it, and then I thought when I
initiated the experience or research team for Moufon and over
the ten years when I was doing that, we did
(30:07):
an excellent job. I think of finding credible support groups
where people even online can join together. You can interact
with one another. If you have a person that you trust,
they might live across the United States, from you. But still,
(30:31):
when you have an experience, you can call that person
and they can call you and you can share that
bond together give each other that support, or you can
do that in a support online support group. Some of
them meet face to face too, but the online groups
(30:51):
are wonderful because you don't have to travel. You can
be there. On Zoom we compile a list of licensed
psychotherapists who use hypnosis who work with experiencers who are
suffering from trauma, also with certified hypnotherapists who are very
(31:17):
well trained in working with experiencers, and also quantum healing
hypnosis practitioners as well and so and Opus has that
list as well. Lester Villez is the head of Opus Opus.
(31:38):
Many of the people who used to work on my
team are now volunteers for Opus. And you can go
there with complete confidentiality. Your report is never going to
be posted anywhere, and you can receive referrals. You'll talk
one on one with a very helpful, caring individual. So important, Yeah,
(32:04):
it is extraordinarily important.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
It's one of the biggest problems with the old time
experiences is that it also threw people into intense isolation
where they didn't know they could talk to and certainly
even their own families they didn't feel they could tell sometimes.
So yeah, it's what you guys also have worked to create.
You know, has been so so helpful and it's kind
(32:28):
of softened this whole experience for people so they can
work with it, they can deal with it in a
very positive type of way. So what are you seeing
now with people who have experiences and are talking about them.
They're getting more support, which is good, so they're more
likely to talk about it. But what about the experiences themselves,
(32:51):
Because in the past there was a lot of harvesting
of eggs and sperm and this and that, and you know,
testing the third eye for how much life it was
producing and other things. How have these experiences changed since then?
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Well, I think that we know more about this and
people are more willing to share their information confidentially. It's
not defending themselves because they're being investigated. Well, Moufon has
changed it rules, so now you have to be investigated
(33:27):
before you can get the help with Moufon. That's why
I would recommend Opus. But today people have a higher
level of knowledge, people are older. I mean, we've been
taken over a lifetime. We know that about seventy five
percent of experiences were less than twenty years old when
(33:51):
they were taken for the first time, according to our
Moufon study on that at five hundred and sixteen experiencers.
And over a lifetime, you develop a relationship and as
you grow, you learn, you become more knowledgeable, you can
(34:12):
establish a more positive relationship. You begin to view yourself differently.
You're no longer a lab rat on a table who's
being exploited, but you're an individual who might have volunteered
to do this before you even came into this lifetime.
(34:33):
And you are being given information from these non humans,
especially from your escort, the one that you see over
and over again, who's also an educator, who is giving
you information about why they're here. And you know, for
(34:53):
the most part, for years, they've been showing images of
nuclear destruction on Earth, of environmental collapse, that sort of thing.
But they give messages such as, your level of spiritual
(35:16):
growth is out of sync with your technological development, and
when we see this occurring, it could lead to the
annihilation of life on the planet, and we don't want
to see that. They've told us that they work quietly
because they fear that they know that they would be
(35:38):
perceived as an invader or as an enemy to the
nations around the world, to the military forces who don't
want them here, who don't want to cooperate with them.
Way back in nineteen fifty four, they had a military
contact where they offer to give assistance to us, to
(36:04):
teach us, and that was completely rejected by the government.
The information went to Dwight Eisenhower and it was looked into,
and the CIA was even shown craft, but they did
not trust this non human alien groups. Yes, I say groups,
(36:31):
more than one group.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
And from what I understood with Eisenhower, he was of
the mindset that people would just not be able to
handle this if they knew the truth. And I know
that's a big bunch of nonsense that's been propagated for years,
and I've always disagreed with it. I think, well, you know,
it would have been a bit of a shock for
people back in the forties and fifties, but certainly not today.
(36:58):
I mean, I think, yesligion would have some explaining to
do and things like that, but overall, if you look
at the media, you know, and all these movies and
television shows, And I mean they've made it much more
comfortable and interesting to us on the planet to welcome visitors.
So and they're probably much more than visitors.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
WoT. Yes, I don't think that they hop back and
forth from this planet to their planet. They're around to stay,
they're around. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, And so I don't think it would be any
you know, war of the world or any of what
some people have predicted. Some have said they've run all
the algorithms on it, and if people knew, it would
be terrible. I don't get that. I don't see that.
I don't agree with that position, because how can we mature,
how can we grow up unless, again, we are on
(37:51):
a solid foundation of truth.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
And I think that most young people realize that we
are being visited. They grow up with that kind of knowledge.
But you know, it's just people who belong to very
conservative religious groups who believe all of this is demonic.
And unfortunately, there are members of fundamentalist religious organizations at
(38:21):
the Pentagon who believe it's all demonic and want to
cast it that way based upon religious belief. What happened
to the division between church and state. You have the
church running the program at the Pentagon, So I mean
(38:42):
that has to be dealt with.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
We have to.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Stop the military from being so fearful, from taking such
a negative view, believing that we are going to be
invaded and used for whatever purpose. These entities have beeneled
round for a long long time, and if they wanted
to do that, they would have done it already.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Exactly exactly. I don't think we have to worry about
them turning us into slaves. We're already there and it's
not the aliens that did it. So yeah, we need
to open our eyes and know what's going on. Because
when I way back when I first got involved with US,
I mean talking forty years ago, you know it, To me,
(39:31):
it looked like this was the only place where everything
was being hidden from us, where the truth wasn't coming out.
But of course as I grew up and I got older,
I saw that it's in every single department of the government.
There is so much manipulation, there is so much sleight
of hand, there is so much greed. Talking about even
(39:53):
Congress wanting to get into the whole UFO thing. One
of the thoughts that crossed my mind was, oh, Okay,
it's because they're not making money. From this. They want
in on it because they know there's money to be made.
And if you look at war mongering, you know why
because there's money to be made. And now I'm looking
(40:13):
at the people in Congress and who they are and
what they've been doing, and I'm thinking, why would they
care about UFOs unless they thought they were missing out
on something with money to be made. It's just I
don't see anybody on that level that is working for us,
you know, like it's supposed to be. Yeah, anymore, it's disappeared.
(40:34):
And that one little pocket that I thought was just
true of the UFO field is true in my view
the world of everything to do with governments, that's a
sad place to be.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
I know there's a lot of nasty business going on,
but I'm not as cynical as you.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Oh goodness, I know that.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
That the Pentagon has covered all of this up for
private industry to back engineer UFO technology from crashed saucers,
that sort of thing. In terms of Congress, I don't know.
Maybe I just uh am too accepting, but I just
(41:21):
loved watching David Fraver and David Grush and the other
people who testified before Congress and and Adam Schiff's new statements.
The I think that they really want to know what
(41:43):
is occurring. They're trying to get a grasp on that.
Maybe they're also thinking about they how they want to
get a grasp into the stock market. Yes, maybe I
don't know, but yea, so well.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
I love that you're not as cynical as I am,
and I'm relieved. But I also see this as it's
wonderful that you again have been foremost in the world
and creating these groups for people who are having these experiences,
and they can now settle with them, they can be
(42:22):
at peace with them, they can learn from them, they
can grow, because isn't that what this is all about,
as we are supposed to grow and mature as souls
and spiritual beings and to really acknowledge where we come from.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Absolutely, and you know, the whole power structure has changed.
What we used to have would be the experiencer and
the investigator on one side, and then you would have
a blue ribbon panel where skeptical eufhologists and disinformants would
(42:58):
form this blue ribbon panel and they would examine the
evidence and determine whether or not this person really had
the experience and that was complete belgey because it was
so dismissive of individuals and who deserves to be judged.
(43:20):
Most people don't want to go public with this. Nothing
to be gained, there's wanted and a lot to be
lost as a result of going public with this. Most
people are just looking for some support, some comfort, someone
they can trust to hear their experience, and oftentimes they're
(43:43):
fearful of even making a report with a UFO organization
because of the possibility that their information might be revealed
through a violation of confidentiality, as it was with my
aunt and uncle Betty and Barney Ill and so many others.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yes, yes, that wasn't good. No yeah, so yeah, I mean,
thank goodness again for you and what your your work
has brought to us. But now it does seem like
there's more opportunities for people to learn from their own experiences.
But how are you also seeing the amount of people
(44:26):
the numbers are they going down, are they staying the same,
or are they going up for experiences and I'm talking
about i'll call it the abduction experience where they're taken.
Do you see that has increased or decreased or stayed
the same.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Well, it's really hard for me to calculate that because
when I was director of the ERT, we would have
up to one hundred people per month who would contact
us for confidential conversation, sometimes up to one hundred and
fifty a month, And so you know that was quite
(45:02):
a number of people coming in per month over a
ten year period, right, So, but many of them were
individuals who had been holding this inside for years, sorry
the mosquito in front of me, that thing, right for years,
(45:24):
and I hadn't trusted anyone, hadn't been able to process
what they had been through. And so now this opportunity
was available, and they trusted me as the head of
this group, knowing my background, my family background. I think
(45:46):
it just flew into my mouth. Oh no, what a
thing to happen on care Oh well, so anyway, everything
has changed.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Well I'm glad it's changed somewhat for the better. Then,
And let me ask you this, and I don't mean
to put you on the spot at all, but is
there anything you can share with us that surprised you
from some of the people that you trust.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
In terms of people I've I've helped her who worked
on my.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Team, or anything to do with an enlightening experience, you know,
finding out new information, whether it be from an experiencer
or from a whistleblower or somebody else you could trust,
like a David Grush type of person. I mean, anything
that they told you that was like, wow, that's a surprise.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Well, uh. There there were a couple of cases that
I worked on where the one of the people actually
was able to take video of an ORB that he
had been requesting. He'd been requesting healing. This beautiful light
(47:12):
blue orb with an acrew center, flew down his wall
like a butterfly across his room, hovered a moment over
his body, put down these irridescent tendrils, dove into his body,
and cured his cancer with the medical records to go
(47:33):
along with it.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
That's perfect.
Speaker 3 (47:35):
That was wonderful. Also, a group two researchers who were
meeting with a confirmed experiencer who was able to call
in craft came in and they thought that they would
be able to collect EVPs. They had Bell and Howell
(47:56):
camera set up in one part of the yard. They
were holding a thirty five millimeter camera. A craft did
start to come in and it was coming in closer
and closer, and all of a sudden they were no
longer holding the equipment in their hands. They were nauseated,
(48:17):
swaying back and forth. They picked up the equipment, picked
up the bell and howel camera went into the experiencer's
home and his wife said, where have you been? They said,
just outside, and she said, no, you weren't. I was
looking for you. You weren't there, And she said, do
(48:37):
you know what time it is? It was one o'clock.
They were missing two hours time, probably maybe a little
bit less than two hours time, and there was EVP evidence.
There was also evidence for a few seconds on the
(48:58):
Bell and Howeld camera of non human entities coming in.
There were two beams of indigo colored light that shot
across the screen. You could see entities that were not
fully materialized dropping off these beams and then materializing. There
(49:26):
was one who was sitting on the ground, had some
kind of technological equipment on his back, attached to his feet,
and wearing something on his head. He was enveloped in
blue light and then lifted into the air and he
had a blue light in one hand, and he just
(49:46):
crossed in front of that screen, moving back and forth
looking both ways. And I'm not even sure if he
was an avian or if he was a mantis type,
but he you know, he had that snout, he was
a golden colored, the large dark eyes. Just really amazing
(50:11):
evidence that I've been able to collect from just a
handful of people out of probably a few thousand that
I've spoken with. But when somebody is very interested in
collecting evidence and they have a compelling experience, I train
them and I stay with them while they collect this,
(50:34):
and then I have people analyze it.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
It's not just me.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
And I've written in my book Extraterrestrial Contact, What to
Do when You've been adopted, all about that how to
do it. It's written specifically for experiencers to learn, how
to process, to learn different qualities that experience is develop
(51:01):
over time as experiencers that are not common in the
general population. The paranormal overlay, the intelligent orbs in your environment,
the sensation that something unseen is walking on your bed.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Well, that's a very helpful book. This is one of
many that you've written, so for people who are looking
for Kathleen's books, they're all available on Amazon dot com.
But certainly what to do if you have. This experience
is very important. Hey, the police just got a new
handbook about UFOs and how to sign and send in
a report and all kinds of things. Now that's a
(51:41):
first that I've heard. But it's important for people because
I hope that more and more ET's and interdimensionals will
reach out to people like us rather than going to
the government.
Speaker 3 (51:57):
And people around the world are meeting together in CE
five groups. Craft sometimes does come in. Sometimes the individuals
see the non humans on the craft. In some gatherings,
there have been non humans who have come in and
(52:19):
communicated telepathically with people in the group, And the ETS
say that it is not the governments who are going
to reveal their presence, that when more than fifty percent
of the people on this planet have reached the tipping
(52:40):
point where they know that this is real, then there
will be more disclosure.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
So it's going to force their hand. Yeah, that makes
perfect sense, because they're certainly not committed to telling us anything,
and this is not about them wanting to help us
or inform us in any way. So we all need
to just come to terms with that, that's for sure.
But thank you, Kathleen. This has been delightful and it's
gone in the blink of an eye. I feel you
(53:08):
just got here, so so wonderful to talk to you,
and I'm glad you too. Thank you, thank you so much.
But will you please come back and I please stay
healthy and please come back so we can talk more
about all of this, because I know I'm going to
get a lot of questions once people see the show
when it's convenient for them to watch it, because I
(53:29):
know this has been during their dinner hour. But anyways,
this has been absolutely great. Thank you so much, my pleasure.
You're one of the best in this field and it's
an honor for me to have you here tonight. Thank
you so much, thank you, and next week we'll be
back next week with another great show. James Gilliland is
(53:50):
going to be joining us, telling us about the adventures
on his ranch out in California. Is wild, it's crazy,
it's great. You're going to love it. So we'll see
next week. Until then, see you on the Blue Highway.
Good night everyone.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
H
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