Episode 144: The Octopus Murders

Episode Transcript
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(00:37):
Welcome to the one hundred and fortyfourth episode of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast
So Somewhat Paranormal. My name isJason Knight, host of the show,
and with me as always is OhIt's Oscars back the producer extraordinaire and podcast

(00:59):
co host Oscar. Before we begintonight's topic, I do want to mention
our hearts and our thoughts and prayersare with Louisiana this evening. Hurricane Ida
is just battering Louisiana places like GrandIsle, New Orleans, Metaie, Mandeville,

(01:21):
Saint John's Parish, countless other parishes, some of which I can't even
pronounce. But you know, NewOrleans is near and dear to my heart,
and this bitch Ida is just ravishingLouisiana. It's you, It's your
second home, right, It reallyis, It really is. I'm a

(01:42):
New Orleanian, I guess at heart. And what's crazy now, it's it's
really faux pas to compare hurricanes againstone another or to one another. But
sixteen years ago today is when HurricaneKatrina made landfall. Yes, yeah,
as a category three and Ida hitas a category four. There's emergency workers

(02:08):
been in the business forty years sayingthey have never seen something like this and
they live through Katrina, right right. So it's just I've been riveted watching
it all day, all day long, on every screen in the house.
So I just, you know,just want to say that I'm there with

(02:29):
you in spirit. The Supernatural CurrentStudies podcast is there with you in spirit,
and we know you'll bounce back,strong town, strong people. So
I just wanted to mention that,Yeah, for sure. The other thing
is, if you want to skipour wonderful intro, please go to the
show notes. There will be atime stamp there waiting for you to get

(02:50):
you to the topic. Yeah,all right, Oscar, what has been
going on? Thank you for handlingepisode one hundred and forty three. I
loved your intro. Thank you you. You know, Uh, solo casting
is it's a different bead breed ofdifficulty. So I was flexing muscles that
I'm not used to. That waslike the fifth take at least, and

(03:13):
I had to cutting and spice thethe better parts of other takes to make
it all fit. I mean,it sounds seamless. It just sound good.
But I'm saying like it wasn't onetake that wasn't. In one sitting,
I couldn't even tell because I waslike, I'm like, am I
saying that? And I realized I'mrambling sometimes, like yeah, you know,
because Jay's not here, I'm notsaying he doesn't want Like I'm explaining,
like why am I saying it likethat? Because I'm talking to myself.

(03:35):
That's a weirdo. I've never doneit, so it's got to be.
So yeah, it's it was weird, and in general, I'm a
weirdo, especially when I'm by myself, so it didn't help matters, like
I talked to myself all the time. So yeah, so that was a
little rough. Well it came outgood. I'm glad you all liked it.

(03:57):
I assume if you listen to this, then you should via the last
episode. That's right. They cameback for more. So you did something
right right, right, But yeah, I was I was out traveling.
I took the family on a vacation. We were in Florida in New Smyrna
Beach for the week, and Ijust couldn't research and get a topic together.
So I appreciate you doing that.I hope our listeners like the Patreon

(04:19):
sneak Peak Hotel Cecil. If youwant to hear more things you will not
hear on this public feed, includingvideo casts, join our Patreon Patreon dot
com, Forward Slash Supernatural Current Studiespodcast, or just go to this episode
show notes click on the Patreon link. It'll get your right to us.

(04:39):
We have a library of audio andvideo content. They're just waiting for you.
So support your favorite show. Yeah, totally. What else have you
been up to? Nothing after?You know, coming home from vacation.
Vacation was fantastic, like I said, but the problem is you got to
come back to reality. And youknow, now that I have this new
position at work, I came backto just mess of playing catchup. So

(05:02):
I'm not gonna say I regretted thevacation. I most certainly did not regret
the vacation, but I got tofigure out a plan because we're going again
in December. It was really hardto come back to work because I was
just completely overwhelmed. Did you getdid you give yourself that extra buffer a
day? I did? I did? Wonder did they work? Wonders?

(05:24):
But like you know, yeah,I was, you know, able to
unpack, clean up, do whatwe need to do answer some emails for
work, kind of make sure thecat's okay, make sure the cat's alive.
Right, Uh so I did takea vacation with the vacation very very
important. Take a vacation from yourvacation for days, bro, they're important.
M Yeah, as the guy whobarely goes on vacation. By the

(05:46):
way, we got to get youon more vacations, more podcast vacations.
Maybe, yeah, those are work. They're not a vacations. Okay,
wrong, they're fun. This showis fun, but it's work. Okay,
that's not a vacation. I wantto do nothing on a beach,
not like read something for a researchpaper or something on a read speaking to
research paper. Oh, I gottasay this here. You're telling me offline

(06:13):
after this topic that we're gonna getinto tonight your topic. Yes, that
is all I mean. You mighthave one hundred plus page script Oscar spector.
Yeah. You can see the lookof his face. Are you burnt
out? Yes? I was burntthat before I wrote even one word of

(06:33):
the script. Yeah, this aroundhow it's gonna come out. I need
to find a fucking linear. It'sanything linear. I need to find a
way to write this, but Idid find a way. I spent this
week up until very late last nightfinishing it Part one only, by the
way, But don't worry. Parttwo is looking to be a little bit

(06:56):
more difficult, but it's I'm comingon better shape, right because I have
a lot more I can use thisas a way to springboard from two Part
two. I'll explain all that later, but yeah, it's it's been a
trial for sure. It's been fun. Wow. Well, I can't wait
to get into it. I'm thoroughlyintrigued by the topic you chose in the
roads it goes down. Yeah,I was trying to tease you earlier off

(07:21):
fire about it, and I'm gonnabe tea. This is a gigantic teas.
I'm sorry in advance. This isa gigantic teas. There's so much
I won't tell you yet on thisfirst episode, but I'm getting ahead of
myself. Besides all this, whatI've been up to you is that nothing
much necessarily I have. I gotmyself a little blink camera and I'm videotaping

(07:44):
my my Shuger gliders in their cage. I got bird's eye view looking down
and so it's the latest model asfar as I can tell, one of
them. And and so you cantalk like a baby honor. You can
talk through it, you know,even if you're like miles away. And
I did that. I check itperiodically. I have its censored to motion
sensornio, so when they wake upand move around, it lets me know,

(08:07):
and it records for like two Iremember the time, like three minutes.
And it's been fun watching what theydo when I'm not around, you
know, when I'm at work orwhatever. And I gotta to say.
Zelda, the youngest one, youngestby two months, by the way,
she the first day I put thecamera on her, and for most days

(08:28):
after that, I noticed that sheloves that wheel that I put in there.
Loves it so much that every timeI would check it period of two
hours at work, I would justgo on and I'm I'm gonna look what
they're doing. She was still onthe wheel after like six hours. Sometimes
like what the hell is she doing? And like, no, wonder,
she's so not interested in doing anything. When I get home, she's like,

(08:50):
man, she's fucking tired. She'smaking that wheel her bitch, and
it's it's fun and it's funny.Every time I'm looking at Mutter not be
in the wheel, you know,and I'm like, give Lily a chance
to play in the wheel girl,But but no, either Lily doesn't want
to or she doesn't get a chanceto play. That is ridiculously cute.
It is very cute. And theyobviously lick the camera for you know,

(09:11):
once or twice because they're like newthing and stuff. It's been a c
it's been It's just a cute thingthat I'm into. I've been into lately.
Besides that, you know, notnot a whole lot. I had
something in my brain a minute ago, but I forgot. Oh yeah,
you know, there is something notit's weird. It's weird, and it's

(09:33):
almost like a question for our audience. But I know we haven't gotten a
lot of feedback from them, butlike, maybe it's cool, maybe this
could work. I've been thinking aboutand what do you think of this.
I've been thinking about doing or tryingto do our shows in a smaller condensed
version and putting in them on TikTok. I know nothing about TikTok. I

(09:56):
didn't I missed that train, Iguess, but I mean it's still on.
But yeah, I know it's insanelypopular. Obviously, you're always sending
me cool creepy tiktoks and stuff andright, and some of them, you
know, you never know if they'rereal or not. Obviously, I'm not
saying that everything I send you isone hundred percent real, but some of
them are. I mean, withwith an episode that's one hundred paid script,

(10:20):
I don't know how we would doit, you know, but right,
but no, no, maybe notthis one. Maybe don't start with
this one, you know, gosimpler, right, I think I'll be
a good way not only to promoteand stuff, but like to like have
like an alternate version to get peoplein and on what we do here,
because everything, all these mediums aredifferent flavors for different people and how they

(10:43):
want their information or entertainment delivered,and that's what we do. Essentially.
We do give information, we dogive all the stuff, but like we
really entertainment device really, and Ithink that could be kind of fun.
You know, I've been researching it. I would sa I'm not saying you're
gonna do it. I'm just saying, what do you think of the idea
of it? I mean saying anyI'm down. I don't know how to
do it, but I'm all forit any way to help market the show.

(11:05):
We keep getting these comments on likeYouTube or even a Patreon, you
know, people saying how do theseguys not have more subs? You know?
And the plain simple truth is weare ship at marketing, complete butter
ships at it. We're really badat it, like we're ye, fantastically
awful. We just don't we putand we know there's so much brain powers

(11:28):
devoted to life, family and theshow in general, like the content that
really do not expand any effort whatsoeverand anything else that's right. I never
think about it. I literally neverthink about it. People will be like,
aren't you on Twitter? I'm like, it's the first time I thought
of it in months. Yeah,no, it's It's true, same with
me. That's why any word ofmouth, you know, listeners help help

(11:48):
spread love for the show. Wecould use it. iTunes reviews really help,
but yes, anything to help marketus. And in a similar different
note, though, I've been doinga lot more. I mean for the
last about three shows worth, solike the last six weeks. Over the
last six weeks or so, I'vebeen you know, twitch streaming a lot

(12:09):
more on on our Twitch channel,you know, not consistently, it's been
it's been a little bit inconsistent,but it's been a few times a week
to sometimes, you know, multipledays, grow playing games, weird games.
I'm about to play a Cthulhu esqueHB Lovecraftian game, maybe even tonight.
I don't know how tonight's going togo. But yeah, mostly nights,
sometimes in the afternoon. And there'salways been like one or two people

(12:31):
that I've totally joining. Now Idon't talk to him very often. No
one says anything. I don't sayanything either, but I just playing when
people join, So that's kind ofwhoever it is, thank you for joining
us. That's where we are.Thanks for always being there. They when
they get the notification they're on it. That's fantastic and I think that's great.
Yeah, where we are. Thankyou. So that's been that's been
also fun of fun been doing that. If you want to check us out.

(12:52):
What's the Twitch channel? And noway Chicago Chicago's SOS or is it
s West chicagohost Oh, dude,you totally put me on the spot.
I thought you knew. I thoughtyou could you're so good at this that
I thought you might have known.I will place it in the show notes,
right, I'm writing it down mortem, so editing, maneuver, editing,

(13:15):
magic, editing magic. I justwrote it down. Ad twitch cool
done, Yeah, yeah, itwill happen. Cool anyway, what I
mean? Terrible at marketing? Terrible? Yeah, we get bad at it
anyway, But we have a Twitchchannel I put I do games, and
I try to do creepy games,and I've been successful overall, but every
once in a while do play likea fun, lighter game. I don't.

(13:37):
I can't. Not everything is supernatural, but you know, sometimes it
is. Anyway. That said,for that, I think you should tell
us. Now that I mentioned aTwitch channel, you should tell us how
else people can find us. Yeah. The easiest way OSCAR for people to
get to the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcastis by going to our website, Chicago
Ghost Podcast dot com. From ChicagoGhost Podcast dot com, you can get

(13:58):
to all of our social platforms,including Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram,
and of course Patreon. Again,if you want to support the show
get exclusive content, join our Patreon. You're rusty, I am rusty.
Oh my god. See the Patreonlink. In this episode, show notes,

(14:20):
we have a phone number Chicago areacode eight seven two five to two
nine zero seven sixty seven. ThatChicago area code eight seven to two five
zero seven six seven. Leave usa message, send us a text.
We'll probably read them and play themon the show. So sorry, that
felt so unnatural. Okay, allright, I know I can feel you

(14:43):
feeling unnatural about it. No,when we said you're rusty, it reminded
me of this thing. Like there'sjust like I don't know if he's a
doctor or a nurse, you know, local person that comes into my store
every day orders an advance you know, on the phone, right, and
his name is Rusty, and he'slike I remember one of my coworkers he's
like, oh yeah, I gottahear from overorder. And then one of

(15:05):
my partners or whatever said like,are you rusty? And he's like yeah,
I'm like, nah, you've beenat it for a while now.
Sometimes just it cracked everyone. Iwas just like a really well timed joke
there, and you just reminded meof it. That's it. It was
very good, kind of quasi dadjoke. I like it. Oh yeah,
no, I'm sure yeah. Sorry, that's it. Do you have

(15:26):
anything else? I don't truly takea break. Yes, listeners, welcome

(16:27):
back to the show. Well,the lights are turned down low, the
ceremonial candle is lit, and thedrinks are flowing. Let's start this show
now, Oscar. I know youhave a whole intro. I'm gonna pass
it off to you in a moment, but I just want I just want

(16:47):
the listeners to know if they sawthe title of this episode, the octopus
murders, this has nothing to dowith an eight legged mollusk, does it.
You know it does not at leggedand now it does not. Well,
you know they have brains in oneof the modest tentacles. I did
not know that they have two brainsand ship. Yeah, wow, that's
what. That's what makes them ableto like move wriggle, like to let's

(17:11):
say, flee something and also catchsomething with their other tentacles they have like
they can multitask because they like twobrains or something. It's like weird.
They're very weird. But no,that has nothing to do with the underwater
sea creatures. Interesting. Yeah,because the first time you told me about
this subject, that was my literalfirst question to you was, does octopus

(17:33):
actually kill people in this one?No, stupid, it's because of all
the tentacles where where this story goes, it has all the weaving happening,
right. Yeah, And it alsosurprised me further because you're more you are
much more in You're much more awareof conspiracies and fucking crypt all this ship

(17:56):
that we've done in the show,nearly exclusively. You've because I didn't know
anything about them. You're like,have you heard of this? No?
And the what's so famous? No? I never heard of it? You
know, it's now this time Igive I give that to you. It
feels great, It's not you mustfeel all the time. Yeah. So
I know nothing about this topic,right, but it goes to places that

(18:19):
I think are going to blow people'sminds. I know. I've done very
very very very high level research justto get names, dates, locations for
for tags, for keywords or whenI post this, I just wanted to
get started on the episode, youknow, get started on the post.

(18:41):
Some of the articles that I pulledup that center around this murder or these
murders, I guess you should say, blew my mind. Yeah, the
the tentacles where they go. It'sit's just amazing. So I just wanted
to say that this is not aboutan octopus pornographic or pornographic right, No,

(19:02):
not at all. It's not petty. So with that Oscar, please
take it away. I've been dyingto hear this. All right, sounds
good. Let's go into my overdramaticizedintroduction here. Probably should stop laughing.
Okay, where does the unraveling begin? When there are multiple entries and loose

(19:23):
strands and the fear of pulling onthe wrong one will result in the loss
of valuable time, effort, andwill. That is the ball of mess
and information I found myself in.I believe that disorganized nature of the embezzlement,
the forgery, lying, stealing,appointing, arresting, threatening, and

(19:45):
murdering that happens in this long tailactually makes it all seem more realistic,
more human. Unfortunately, this featof unraveling nearly shriveled my interest in pursuing
this case to nothing because of howbig and messy it was getting. I
am hartened, however, that Icame across this case after many of the

(20:07):
answers have already been found by relentlesspeople whose lives were you know, changed
by the events as you will hearshortly. Essentially, the victims or friends
of the victims did most of thelegwork, and it is their personal connection
to the Octopus murders that really peakedmy interest at the start. So this

(20:27):
story was first brought to my attentionon TikTok by user user sorry at death
Wish Princess, who gets into thisgrand tale of a triple murder that occurs
in the nineteen eighties and the relentlesssearch by one of the victim's daughters that
finally led to the killer decades later. Decades, not like a year or

(20:52):
two. The woman in the videomentions conspirators and co conspirators, as well
as another murder that happens ten yearslater, and she ends it all by
saying the reason she knows all ofthis is because she's the granddaughter of one
of the victims and that her momwas the one that found the killer.

(21:12):
Cut to months later, three booksor actually four now and roughly eighty articles,
and here we are. I wantedto mention the TikTok user whose video
I will play later on to givepeople the ability to look her up if
you want early spoilers and maybe arough outline. Since there are so many

(21:37):
characters, good and bad, fromdifferent sides and all walks of life,
Today's show will be centered solely ona triple murder in nineteen eighty one and
a parent suicide in nineteen ninety oneand establish an overall bedrock of information and
people that makes this story stranger thanfiction. And one monumental conspiracy, a

(22:02):
conspiracy that touches on all sorts ofinteresting keywords such as government involvement, presidential
involvement, the CIA, the mob, Native Americans, weapons manufacturing and selling,
privacy hindering, computer software, hitmen, journalists, the iron contrast scandal,

(22:23):
international dignitaries, political assassinations, andeven aliens. Today's story will read
like a film. There's almost likea three act structure naturally in play,
and a headstrong protagonist that tries tomake sense of her crazy life. My
advice to you is to try topay attention. You never know the piece

(22:45):
of information that would lead to aconnection or an answer. So with that
in mind, let's set the stage. The stage is Riverside County, California.
This particular county has a lot ofheft As of the last census,
Riverside County is the fourth most populouscounty in California and the tenth in the

(23:08):
country. Pretty big. It's locatedin southern California and has mostly desert between
Los Angeles and Arizona. Most ofJoshua Tree National Park is on Riverside and
where most of all peyote in theworld is consumed. Hey. The city
of Indio, one of the biggestlocations in the county, lies next door

(23:33):
to a small Indian reservation. Itsresort cities are Palm Springs, Palm Desert,
Indian Wells, Lacinta, Rancho Mirage, and Desert Hot Springs, all
located in the Coachella Valley region ofRiverside County. I bring up Coachella because
it is where we'll spend a lotof our time in particularly Indio and Rancho

(23:56):
Mirage. That Indian reservation I teaseda second ago is called Cabaison Band of
Mission Indians. It is a federallyrecognized tribe of the Kahuila Indians. I
hope I'm pronouncing that correct, whoseoriginal territory held twenty four hundred square miles

(24:17):
of land in southern California tribes splinteredover the centuries into what are federally known
as Western Khila, Mountain Kahila,and Desert Kahila, the last one being
Cabison Band of Mission Indians, locatedseven miles outside of Indio, and the
tribe's headquarters located in Indio. Itis a small tribe, having now enrolled

(24:44):
thirty eight enrolled members, according tothe San Diego State University Library. That's
not to say that there aren't more, just not recognized as yet. Not
to mention maybe the children they areold enough, and the fact that each
federally recognized tribe sets its own rulesfor membership. Either way, it's a
small tribe thirty eight and there isno unemployment for the Cabison banned the Mission

(25:07):
Indians. You might have guessed already, but this tribe found gainful employment on
their land via a casino called FantasySprings Resort Casino. Have you heard of
it? I have not. No. Apparently it's a big deal. It
was built. I don't know,but it's California. So Cabison Band the
Mission Indians are known for three things. One is when they won the pivotal

(25:33):
court case California vi. Cabyson banin the Supreme Court in nineteen eighty seven.
They argue that their high stakes Bengalparlors and poker rooms were lawful because
California state law couldn't touch it.This led to the second thing they're known
for, their actual casino, whichspanned two hundred million dollars in two thousand
and four to refurbish. This isafter having had several expansions for millions more.

(25:59):
The last thing Capston Banda Mission Indiansare known for is what the public
claimed they were involved in with aman named John Philip Nichols, something called
the Wagon Hut Corporation, and finally, a triple homicide that occurred in nineteen
eighty one. Let's get into that. The following information comes from a myriad

(26:21):
of sources like local newspapers, retrospectivemagazine issues, and a good chunk from
a book titled Return of the Buffalo, The Story behind America's Indian Gaming Explosion.
Prior to midnight on June thirtieth,nineteen eighty one, three people were
murdered in cold blood Alfred m Alvarez, Ralph Arthur Boeger, and Patricia Roberta

(26:47):
Castro. An investigator from the RiversideCounty Coroner's Office, Robert Drake, filed
the report on the murder. Quote. I was contacted by telephone at seven
thirty four am on July first,nineteen eighty one by the Riverside County Sheriff's
Office in Indio. I was toldof a triple triple homicide at thirty five

(27:11):
zero four to zero Bob Hope Drivein the rural area of Rancho Mirage.
The scene of this homicide is thebackyard patio of the residence of Alvarez.
On that Bob Hope Drive. Thethree victims had been sitting in a semi
circle. Castro had been sitting ona single bed facing south, Alvarez was

(27:33):
sitting to her right on a woodenchair, and Boger had been sitting to
his right on a wooden chair facingnorth. They were discovered by friends of
Alvarez, William Callaway and Joe R. Benitez at about six forty am on
July first, eighty one. Whenfound, Castro was lying back across the
bed head to the north. Alvarezwas still sitting but slumped to the right,

(27:57):
while Boger was lying based down inthe sand where he had fallen forward
from his chair. All three weredressed, and from the initial distant examination
it appeared that all three had beenshot in the head and had been dead
for several hours. Alvarez, Castro, and Boger were each killed by one

(28:19):
bullet to the back of the head. Examination of the bodies and the crime
scene said that the killer slash killerswere up close to their victims when they
pulled the trigger. They were killedby thirty eight caliber bullets. And the
reason I said killers like plural isbecause of how the victims were positioned when
they died. It was theorized thatit was theorized by police that since the

(28:44):
shootings could not have occurred from afar, that it was most likely that the
victims knew the killers beforehand. Thisis because there are no signs of force
or running away from surprise attackers,and the fact that the victims were facing
each other proves the theory that nonumber of attackers could sneak up behind Castro,
Boger, and Alvarez without one ofthem seeing it first each other right.

(29:08):
They died in their last living positions, unaware of the thirty eight caliber
bullets heading their way. The mainreason police believed that it was more than
one shooter, though, is becauseone or two of the victims were not
alerted when the first shot rang out. Say if they were maybe asleep or
drunk, you know, say thatBolger and Alvarez were killed first in their

(29:30):
chairs. Even though it is possiblethat Castro could have you know, sat
upright from the mattress she was layingin, she would have had enough time
to try to flee or face theshooter, and the crime scene would have
reflected that, but it didn't.The angle of each of the shots also
came from different directions, so it'snot like one person standing shot shot and
the third person. You know,it was from different directions. Oh okay,

(29:52):
back of the head. Remember thatI should note that the reason the
trio were chilling in the backyard wasto escape the heat from inside, since
there was no air conditioning. Itexplains the mattress anyway. Autopsy did show
zero point fourteen percent plural fluid alcoholand Alvarez's system, while Bolger had point

(30:14):
oh eight alcohol content, which isthe base used to determine driver intoxication in
California. There were no signs ofdrug use in the autopsies. Oddly,
Patricia Castro's body was not examined forautopsy, and the coroner does not state
why in his report, and Ihave no clue, by the way,
humhm. My theory is that thiscould mean that the killers were maybe not

(30:40):
known by the victims, that theyhad enough time to get into positions while
the two men were intoxicated, youknow, pop pop, then head to
the wakings slash sleeping Castro for thefinal pop. I believe it's a stretch
to think that one killer did theshooting, no matter how drunk, but
it can mean that they weren't friendsabout as in company. You're saying,

(31:02):
we don't know that the hitman waitedfor the right time is what I believe
most likely. I say hitmen becausethat's what the police thought. That the
triple murderer had all the hallmarks ofa professional hit. I'll get back to
this later on. One important thingabout this triple homicide to note is that
nearly everyone, from local police tofederal institutions, conspiracy theorists, friends,

(31:27):
co workers, and families of thedeceased, not to mention yours, truly
believed that the target was Fred Alvarez. By the end of the story,
there is no way you'll think theshooters were at Alvarez's home for anyone else
but Alvarez. Okay, Castro andBolger were innocent bystanders. Before we start

(31:48):
speculating as to why and who wantedFred Alvarez dead, there is one theory
floating out there to suggest something else. Not long before his death, Fred
revealed to a doctor, Nikol andtribal members of the band of Mission Indians
that Patricia Castro's husband was soon tobe released from prison and had passed the
word along he was going to killhis wife's lover. Police were told about

(32:13):
this, but nothing has come fromit that I've read personally. That's the
one Castro angle anyway, you know, plus the possibility that she and Fred
were lovers, which is possible.I honestly do not have much on the
third victim, Ralph Boger. Hehad a family he barely saw, was
divorced, He smoked weed and rodehis motorcycle. There was taught that he

(32:34):
had made drug dealings with the Hell'sAngels and that he and Fred Alvarez have
been accused of drug deals. Andwhile it does serve as a potential reason
for the triple slayings. The cleanlinessof the crime scene and other information I
will bring up here say otherwise.Now, Alvarez wasn't that special either.
He was a big biker who becamelocally popular in his youth for wrestling and

(33:00):
playing college football. He was assertive, alpha and wasn't try to let his
temper intimidate you if it got himwhat he needed. There was drug use
and supposed drug deals, which againsome people think is what led to his
demise in eighty one. But there'sa mixed bag of highs and lows about
what people thought of Fred Alvarez.People liked them, people didn't. His

(33:24):
importance to this case is that hewas a tribal member of the Cabison Band
of Mission Indians. He used tobe one of the thirty something tribe members.
Oh okay, that's what makes themimportant to this case. He made
it as far as vice chairman beforebeing demoted or voted out of that position.
Reading the excerpts from the disclosed CabisonBand meetings, you could tell that

(33:49):
Fred Alvarez was going through a toughtime in the years before the tribes win
against the the state of California tobuild their grand casino. They did have
poker rooms, bingal parlors, andalcohol licenses to sell that shit. How
and where on reservation land were theseamenities produced was up to the tribe's votes.

(34:10):
I'm not going to get into theintricacies of a tribal organization, but
I will say that Fred Alvarez wasa tribal officer. When he died,
he tried to get the votes tobuild his own poker room slash bar on
the land. A woman who workedclosely with Fred mentioned to a reporter that
he had also wanted topless dancers,but that's beside the point here. After

(34:32):
creating a rift and a faction againstthe majority to get the votes, Fred
still lost not just a business opportunity, but he lost credibility within the tribe.
These meetings were happening somewhere between Marchand June of eighty one, weeks
before his death. There were complaintsto the council that Fred was being uncooperative

(34:52):
to patrons of the established poker roomsand bingo parlors, that he did not
help others with their responsibilities on triballand, that he selfishly expected help for
his business venture and was but hurtwhen he didn't get it. You know,
this led to a few things thatgive this triple murder conspiracy some complicated
spice. It was reported that Fredwas meeting with journalists and telling close friends

(35:19):
that he had information of embezzlement occurringon Cabison Indian land. He hinted,
yeah, he hinted that a JohnPhilip Nichols, who did work for the
Cabiston Band of Mission Indians, wasinto some very suspicious activity. So the
Nichols family, which is John PhilipNichols, or he was called Nichols Senior
sometimes his wife Joanne Nichols. Iwas confused Joan and Joanne. Sorry,

(35:45):
His wife Joanne Nichols and his sonJohn Paul Nichols also worked for the Cabiston
Band of Mission Indians. But theyweren't Indians themselves, they were not tribe
members, but they were instrumental tothe business dealings. It's safe to say
that the reason Cabizon ban were ableto get liquor licenses, cigarette licenses and

(36:05):
able to make important casino connections isin large part large part due to the
Nichols. I have a useful twopronged example that shows how productive and resourceful
this little family was, especially inthe seventies and eighties. Quote doing this
meeting, Doctor Nichols, meaning JohnPhillips Senior, made two significant reports,

(36:30):
the first of which described recent tripshe had taken to Taiwan, Korea,
and Japan and of his meeting withlocal and lumber purchasers in those countries.
His trips there were financed by WallaceShipping Chartering Limited, a company trying to
market coal to those and other countries, and it was paying a monthly fee

(36:52):
to use doctor Nichols as a consultant. These fees were being used by Nichols
and the tribe to meet office expensesand stay alive as an economic development entity.
Nichols's second report, according to theMinutes, discussed the advantages of forming
an Indian security company and becoming eligibleto apply for contacts with minority preference.

(37:15):
He indicated that Wackenhut Incorporated and IntersectIncorporated were both well known security firms which
have been interested in working with anIndian firm. After his presentation, Fred
Alvarez moved to drafted resolution calling forthe formation of cabasan security company The motion

(37:35):
was seconded by John James and passedunanimously. These guys knew how to get
shit done, So John John Senior, he's a he's a mover and a
shaker. He's kind of the spon. He's the one that makes things connect
and happen. And that's exactly right. Does he make it? Does he
have a Is there like a typeof a person in your head based on

(37:57):
that? Oh? Sure, Imean I know plenty of people who I
know very few who are like that, or or who want to pretend they're
like that anyway. Yeah, ohyeah, there's that too. But now
my question is did these murders happenon tribal land. No they did not.
Okay, the house on Rancha Mirageis like fifteen minutes away. Okay.

(38:19):
I was wondering because you know,tribal land, that's a whole nother.
Yeah, it's not justice system,you know. That's why I gave
That's why I gave the address,and I said, ran yeah, it's
not on trouble. The murders.Okay, I do, I do,
I do make the I do hammerthat later, but ok no, I
would just for good questions. Let'ssee the reports lend some nuance into what

(38:43):
Cabyson Band was into and what ledto their massive success in the nineties and
two thousands, not to mention thatit helps explain key information and figures as
to the scope of this conspiracy.The reports tell us that while doctor Nichols
was employed at the as the reservationas a manager, he actually was more

(39:04):
of a resource developer and financial advisor. The reports also say that the reason
Cabizon Band's involvement with Wackenhutt and othercompanies was mainly financial reasons were mainly financial
reasons. Wackenhut will be dealt within great detail at some point. Part
two. Do not worry. Allof these reports say that John Philip Nichols,

(39:28):
whom Fred Alvarez allegedly told outsiders andinsiders, was into some heavy shit
and very possibly illegal. There isno evidence of this, but people say
that Fred Alvarez disapproved of doctor Nichols'sleadership and high status as a non member
of an Indian reservation, which mayhelp explain why he wanted his own poker

(39:50):
room and dismissed the rest. Itwas also reported, though not in evidence,
again, that Alvarez knew that JohnPhilip Nichols was in bezzling cassine funds
and had set up a meeting forJuly first, nineteen eighty one, the
day he was found dead, totry to fire him. Reading the minutes
from his final few meetings with thetribe, I have to say that there's

(40:13):
no evidence to support this. Itshould also be mentioned that it was tribal
policy to count their earnings made inthose Bengo potters and poker rooms daily to
thwart any skimming, adding fuel tothe fire. People have also said that
Alvarez new or suspected that Nichols involvedthe Cabison tribe into arms dealings with the

(40:34):
government, and I will get tothat eventually. Yeah, these are the
threads that conspiracy theories from nineteen eightyto present day believe led to the triple
homicide. Interesting so, arms dealing, casinos, liquor licenses, tribal land,

(40:57):
shady money like gray area money.Right, Yeah, this wacken hut.
I'm curious to see w have youever heard of them? Only?
I think I've I read it brieflywhen kind of looking for the keywords.
I mean, before today, Ihave not no interesting. Oh have you
really I wonder if it started outas kind of like a shell dummy company
to run money through or something toclean money. I'm not sure I can

(41:20):
tell you right now, and notnot in a spoiler way. But they're
very real. So they're they're upand up, gotcha, I mean they
but they're just so big, they'rehuge. Yeah, Well, get more.
Yeah, that's an entire segment forpart two, trust me, okay.
Now. The tribe that made apress release concerning this tragedy quote the
Cabiston Band of Mission Indians express itssorrow over the death of Fred Alfred Alvarez,

(41:45):
a member of the band. Hisuntimely death, along with those of
Patricia Castro and Ralph Bolger, aremost unfortunate. We publicly publicly express our
condolences to the immediate family and friendsof the three victims. Since the deaths
did not occur on federal land,the state of California, County of River,

(42:07):
County of Riverside has jurisdiction, Misterblank Clark, the capable Sheriff of
Riverside County, has our full confidencein being able to solve these deaths.
We as a tribe will help andcooperate in any way we can with the
Sheriff's office. The Cabiston Banna MissionIndians respects the American judicial system and knows

(42:27):
that justice will prevail. We wishto state categorically that the unfortunate incident,
which involved the three victims, onlyone of whom was a tribal member,
was wholly unrelated to Cabistan tribal businessor the operation of our tribal casino.
We are in possession of certain evidence, which we have already turned over to

(42:49):
the County Sheriff's office, which indicatedthat the murders may have been attributed to
personal relationships between the victims and otherpersons unconnected in any way with the Cabinson
Band. We are confident that whenthe case is solved, as it will
be, and all the facts aredisclosed, their charges and innuendos will be

(43:10):
shown to be crownless. Until thattime, we would only ask that the
press deal with this tragedy in aresponsible and professional manner and not allow itself
to be used by those with ulteriormotives. That is one hell of a
statement. Actually I cut some partsof it out, by the way,

(43:30):
but yeah, yeah, that's ahell of a state. Now. So
I'm taking because they mentioned right there, you know, these charges are unfounded.
Basically, I'm guessing they were alreadyrumors swirling that amount an insane amount
of them. Yeah, I hadsomething to do with Whack and this guy.
Okay, okay, And there they'replead to tell their their pleader the

(43:50):
press, to to like, hey, you know, you know, be
nice totally does not work. You'reabout to find really doesn't work. The
fact that we're here talking about it, it means that it didn't work.
Okay, okay, Like the veryfact that there's so many books about it
that I'm fucking burnt out over.It's safe to say that this did nothing
to quell journalists, townsfolk, andconspiracy theories from making Fred Alvarez a martyr.

(44:16):
The tribe was harassed daily with questionsof their involvement with the triple murder.
As frustrated as they were with journalistswho were, you know, indeed
damaging the Cabizon Band image, thereal fight was with the police. They
raided this federally recognized Indian land acouple times, taking lots of documents and

(44:37):
questioning everybody that might lead to anarrest. This is not strange behavior for
the tribe. Though for some timebefore Alvarez met his demise, county and
local police had some hate for thistribal territory. They opposed and fought the
selling of cigarettes, alcohol, andbringing gambling to their corner of the world.

(44:57):
Lots of court dates and threats,guys, it makes sense why the
tribe quickly made that press release andfully cooperated with statements and paperwork only a
day or two after the triple murders. It didn't help much, and since
Capustan band of Mission Indians got thelast laugh with their big court win,
you know in the mid eighties,the harassment and traumatic image in the public

(45:20):
subsided over the years for the mostpart. Let's bring a woman in here,
a woman named Rachel Begley on board. Rachel Begley was thirteen years old
when her father, Ralph Boger,was killed in Rancho Mirage, California.
Much of the following comes from aWired article in twenty eleven. Quote she

(45:45):
learned of her father's death from ourtelevision news bulletin. Her parents were divorced,
and though she spent occasional days withher dad riding in his motorcycle,
sidecar. She didn't know enough abouthis life to make sense of what had
happened. The police would eventually concludethat Boger and Alvarez were killed in connections

(46:05):
with shady doings at the nearby CabisonIndian Reservation, but Begley's mother shielded her
from all the murky details of theinvestigation. After the murders, Beglei went
through a rebellious face and fell inwith a bad crowd. By the time
she was fifteen, she was pregnantand had dropped out of high school.
Eventually, she got her ged andmoved to Iowa. She says she would

(46:29):
periodically wonder about the case and checkin with the police, who never seemed
to have any new information. Beyondthat, she didn't have time or tools
to delve too deeply. Then onenight in two thousand and seven, she
idly typed her father's name into Google. She didn't find much, but as
she clicked through the few results thatcame up, she found a book titled

(46:52):
The Octopus, Secret Government and theDeath of Danny Cassillaro, based on the
work of a fee French freelance journalists. The book argued that the nineteen eighty
one, triple slang was wrapped upin an enormous plot involving arm stealing,
private security firms, and the upperechelons of the Reagan administration. Skeptical but

(47:16):
intrigued Begley dug deeper and discovered thatover the years, the murder case had
taken a curious life of its own, preserved on obscure websites and nurtured by
a grassroots community of obsessives. Tothese conspiracy theorists, Boger's killing was the
work of a secret syndicate they calledthe Octopus because its tangled tentacles supposedly reached

(47:43):
into some of the most powerful organizationsin the world. The octopus, Man,
Is that a cool name for asecret murderous organization? Holy shit,
isn't it cool? Yeah? Yeah, I mean we're kind of like jo
thing about the bad part of this, but yes, yeah, yeah,
I know it's terrible. Yeah.Yeah. Would imagine being this this poor

(48:06):
girl, you know, finding thisout about your dad. Your dad could
be involved in this massive conspiracy.Oh, if you believe what I believe
that he was just an innocent bystander, but he was still a part of
it technically. Yeah, I mean, and that's pretty sensational, isn't it.
You can see how Rachel Begley turnsinto like a Michelle McNamara type of

(48:29):
an investigator, just a just amore low rent but with a personal skin
in the game, right. Youcan see that. You can also see
how this this is catnip for reporters. The story sells itself. Rachel began
her investigation late in the game,but managed to find much of the important

(48:49):
information that links motives to the triplemurder and other hits and shady dealings.
By hits, I mean assassinations.She discovered that police and initially suspected John
Philip Nichols of committing the murders becauseof what the local papers like Daily News
Voice of the Valley printed concerning Alvarez'sspeculation of embezzlement with the casinos. We

(49:14):
know the truth of that, buthe was the first suspect investigators focused on.
Through Nichols, Rachel found out thathe and Cabazon struck a partnership with
a private security firm that has clientsaround the globe called Wackenhut. Many books
and articles came out in the earlynineteen nineties talking about this. Publications like

(49:37):
those led Rachel Begley to find outthat the Cabson Slash wacken Hut partnership led
to the manufacturing of arms on federalIndian land. Ooh right. More digging
led to finding out that a bigportion of the information and connections were discovered
by a freelance journalist who died innineteen ninety one one, Danny Cassillaro.

(50:01):
I will focus on him soon enough. Quote most of the stuff I didn't
believe, Begley says, I thoughtall of these people were making money off
of my dad's murder writing these books. She was angry enough, in fact,
that she was determined to prove thespeculators wrong. At the time,

(50:21):
Begley was working in customer service foran internet service provider which was moving its
back office operations to another state,and she was spending her days sitting idly
at her computer waiting to get laidoff. Begley had once worked for a
collections agency, and she knew howto track people down. I went into
it with a mindset, I guess, almost like a police officer would.

(50:44):
She says. No one had everbeen charged in the killings. Nicholas was
long gone. He had died ofa heart attack in two thousand and one,
but Begley talked to albert as asister who recounted her families thwarted efforts
to get to the to get thepolice to pursue the case she found.

(51:05):
She then found William Hamilton, thedeveloper of the promised software, who had
collaborated with Casillaro on his investigation.Hamilton called her back on her cell phone
as she was leaving for work oneday and then talked and talked until his
battery died. It was like boom, she said later on. He dumped

(51:27):
it all in my lap. Begleymay have started out trying to be systi
octopus, but she gradually gave intothe theories implications, which is that her
father had been caught up in avast conspiracy and it had killed him.
You've said a lot there. There'sa lot of little tidbits in that.
Well that that's why I gave youthe beat sign, like, okay,

(51:50):
if you want to say something.So you alluded to a suicide in ninety
one at the top of the showduring your intro, So here's becausing the
the next laro, right, kessLara was the journalist who supposedly committed suicide.
The other thing you mentioned that wasreally interesting. Oh god, it
just flew out of my mind.Is that the helmet? Yes, yes,

(52:15):
the promise software? Thank you,the promise software? Y p r
M I s. I believe pR. I think it's the whole isn't
it the whole thing? R MI S. I don't think is that
what it is? I'm pretty sureit's just without the E but all capitalized.
It's a acronym. I thought itwas PR. I saw that today

(52:37):
during the Maybe, but I've beenreading it that way. Maybe I got
it all wrong in my head.Okay, I just wanted to bring it
up incause people wanted to follow thatrabbit hole on their own and promised.
Yeah. That's another thing that I'mkind of encouraging slash discouraging along with the
show, is that if you wantto find out in due time, by
all means, wait along with thescript with me, and next time and
maybe next time after that, andthen so you could get the pieces together

(52:59):
at I write it and as Itell it to you, I think will
be more fun. However, ifyou can't wait That's why I gave you.
That's why I gave him the TikTokuser at the top. That's why
I'm giving all these names also,even though I'm not going to explain them
yet, I'm giving the names outof the case people who have not heard
of this at all, Like youwant to look forward and a head you
got it? Got it? Yeah, those are the two big things I
pulled out there. For sure.For sure, that's a big ass fucking

(53:21):
thing. The promising, Oh yeah, here comes. I promise that I'll
get to it, to the promisesoftware scandal soon enough. But I like
how Rachel said it. It waslike boom, he dumped it all in
my lap. It's starting to feellike that's what I'm doing, stumping shit
on your lap. You know,already there's a bunch of new information,

(53:42):
but the bombardment is not over,continuing Rachel's discovery and trying to put a
fine finale bow to nineteen eighty onetriple murders. Here's a news clip from
two thousand and eight. It isedited for time in years. Tonight,
we have an exclusive interview with thedaughter of one of those murder victims.
Her search for her father's killers hasjump started this cold case. Three people

(54:07):
executed in nineteen eighty one at thisRanchamurage home. There are few clues and
no arrests. Fred Alvarez was vicechairman of the Cabazon Banned Mission Indians.
Back then they had a card room. Today they have Fantasy Springs casino.
Oliverrez's friend, Ralph Boger was alsomurdered. He was likely at the wrong
place at the wrong time. Hisdaughter Rachel, was never satisfied with a

(54:30):
lack of progress in the murder case. When I was sixteen, I decided
to go out and try and figureout what was going on with all this,
and I went down to the murderscene and to the reservation, and
a week later I was getting deaththreats. Fred Alvarez was planning to blow
the whistle on a business partnership betweendefense contractor Wackenhut Services and Cabazon manager John

(54:52):
Phillip Nichols to form Cabazon Arms.Nichols allegedly planned on using Indian land to
test and build pistols, assault rifles, sniper guns, and rocket launchers.
The partnership was interested in biological weaponsthat could be deployed in small countries.
I even have things in place shouldanything happen to me to where this will

(55:13):
not drop. We're not dropping thisinvestigation either. We now have internal defense
contractor memos revealing two other local Indiantribes that planned on heavy weapons testing on
reservations. We'll expose them and ournext investigation piece. If you've missed any
part of this thirty three part exclusiveinvestigation more than one year in the making,
catch up with our reports on KSQdot com if you didn't catch it.

(55:37):
That clip is the thirty third partof a long series that investigated the
triple murders and other deaths and connections. It's from WESQ dot com if you
want to see what they found.To say that they have a video version
of this podcast is only half correct. I believe I have more info,

(55:57):
but they actually talk to the peopleinvolved, so you know. The newsclip
doesn't mention that one of the weaponsthat were being manufactured on tribal land was
fuel air explosives, which will bekey to remember later. Again, it
says that Alvarez was pissed off aboutthis and that, but there isn't much
of his worries on paper or testimonies. As you would think. Regardless,

(56:22):
the weapons angle is worth killing someoneover, and a man like John Philip
Nichols, as resourceful and connected ashe was, could do it. A
good portion of the Wired piece ofRachel Begley's journey of discovery is spent on
learning the ropes of conspiracy circles,navigating through trial and error, reasonable and

(56:44):
nut jobs alike nut jobs, learningwhich sites were taken more seriously, who
could trust her inquiries, and inturn, who could she eventually trust.
This led to a friendship with awoman named Cherry Seymour. Quote. The
two sealed their friendship with a transactionof weather documents, the octopus community's customary

(57:07):
medium of exchange, copying Seymour's files, which the author had gathered from archives,
courts, and confidential sources. Hiddentrailer, Begley glimpsed the far reaches
of the speculation, bio weapons,Lebanese heroin shipments, Howard Hughes and the

(57:28):
Yakuza. Oh my god, HowardHughes and the yakaza two. How do
you put those in the same breathas this? I don't think that's ever
been spoken aloud. That's right saidwhen I read the article That's exactly what
I said. I'm like, Idon't think those two things I've ever been
combined in an entirety of history.Yeah, Oh my god, I'm just

(57:52):
fucking teasing on all right. CherrySeymour's big contribution to this conspiracy she is
a book that was published in twentyten titled The Last Circle Danny Casillaro's Investigation
into the Octopus and the Promised SoftwareScandal. This book, which I barely

(58:14):
started reading this weekend, is onthe short list of must reads for anything
relating to the Octopus conspiracy. Thoughtthere Moving on, Rachel Bagley began posting
on Facebook and YouTube to educate others, but to also gain the attention of
anyone that might be involved somehow.After several videos documenting her investigations, Rachel

(58:37):
was surprised to get a call fromthe cold case unit from Riverside County.
She was dismissed a year earlier asa nut job by Riverside County authorities,
but this time they called her tosay that the investigation was being reopened.
Rachel focused and determined found a primesuspect in the murder of her father,

(59:00):
a man named Jimmy Hughes. Let'sget into it. California has a state
version of the Freedom of Information Actcalled California Public Records Act, and the
grand majority of what I found aboutJimmy Hughes comes from the families of the
murder victims, police Cabison Indian Tribemembers obtaining files this way. They in

(59:23):
turn sent copies to people like RachelBegley and Cherry Seymour who write books and
post videos, which is how Iknow. This is as direct as I
can get. Even though it's deniedlater, it's clear that Jimmy Hughes worked
for Cabazon Band of Mission Indians atleast from nineteen eighty to nineteen eighty four.

(59:45):
His role there was that of asecurity guard working under John Philip Nichols.
Paperwork calling him a security guard becamehard to find after the triple murder
of Alvarez, Castro and Bolger,but it's clear in the minutes I read
from a meeting in August of nineteeneighty, the tribal Business Committee was trying

(01:00:07):
to set up a trap in SkiRange, and Jimmy Hughes, labeled that
security guard, was recommended for help. The report of that meeting reflect the
exhaustive planning that went into this range. But here's another big example of Hughes
on Cabazon payroll. Quote. OnMarch third, nineteen eighty three, the

(01:00:30):
Cabizan Bingo Palace opened for business.This time the Riverside County Sheriff closed it
down. The tribe went to court, and on May sixth, nineteen eighty
three, Judge Waters issued a preliminaryinjunction against the county. He also imposed
a bond of fifty thousand dollars onthe tribe. Like I said, the

(01:00:50):
cops didn't like the ship. Twoyears later, after a thwarting an attempted
takeover by Wayne Reader, Peter's accostJohn Patrick McGuire, and Jimmy Hughes,
which later devolved into charges by Readerof threats on Reader's life by Hughes on
counter charges, the tribe was hitby a twenty twenty Heraldo rivera TV report

(01:01:15):
that gave national coverage to distortions ofreality. As a result, the tribe
would suffer to terrible public credibility problemsuntil February twenty fifth, nineteen eighty seven.
Unquote Heroldo man Heraldo, Yeah,everyone knows him. I mean not
everyone. I guess he's that oldnow, but ask your parents, you

(01:01:37):
know. But yeah, the credibilityproblems until February twenty fifth, nineteen eighty
seven is timely because that's when theywin the Court against the Supreme Court case
with against California to make their casino. So ah, I see, okay,
makes sense. I'm surprised the policewere able to go on the tribal
lands and shut that yet a bingohall. Again, I don't know how

(01:01:58):
it works, I mean neither.Yeah, so it must have happened.
I mean the clip did it so. A journalist for The Desert Sun,
a man named John Hussarma call himHussar, from the mid eighties to the
mid nineties, wrote several articles smearingand convicting many people connected to Cabizon tribe
of crazy sounding things, mainly involvingarms dealing in South America. What he

(01:02:23):
wrote about Jimmy Hughes is as followsand comes from from the book A direct
I mentioned earlier Return of the Buffalo, and I should say right now,
this is the only time I havesience to say it. Return of the
Buffalo tries to dismiss the conspiracy theoriesthat people talk about with this tribe.

(01:02:44):
It kind of fails at it,but it does clear up some things,
so I think it did some goodjobs too. Anyway, Sorry quote third
in Who's Sorry. Third in Hussar'sstring is the conviction of doctor Nichols,
followed by the fourth, which repeatsthe drug crazed allegations of one Jimmy Hughes
given the false title of former tribalsecurity chief, a title he never held,

(01:03:08):
which is true. Hussar writes thatHughes had filed a statement in nineteen
eighty four charging there was profit skimmingat the Cabazan Bingal Palace and that the
Cabazons and the Nichols's family were involvedin gun running missions in Central and South
America. By publishing this, Hussarwas republishing two blatant lies. There have

(01:03:35):
been no gun running missions by theCabisans or the Nichols anywhere in the world,
and Hughes was never a Cabazan securitychief. In his repetition of these
lies, he then added that Hughesclaimed to be a batman for Nichols in
the Alvariz murder. At no timehas Hussar written the truth about Hughes the

(01:03:57):
speed freak, although the truth wasof available and Hughes was never a bagman
for Nichols or the cab soons forany purpose. Now that's the bias of
the book, right, that's howthe book said. But what do you
think of that? Real quick becausethe couple truths couple not truths there.
One, he wasn't a security chief. He was a he was an officer,

(01:04:18):
security officer for sure, but you'reright, he wasn't a security chief.
So right there, the journalist isgetting something wrong, perpetruting a lie.
Like you said, the gun runningis technically right only in the sense
that you're right, I guess theydidn't do it themselves. But if they're
made there and sent out by someoneelse, same problem, different level,

(01:04:42):
you know. That's my thought onthat anyway. But interesting how people are
trying to dismiss this stuff as youas you as you read more. That's
fucking weird, right, yeah,it's kind of that's hard to kind of
parcel some of this stuff. Itwas well known by several people at the
time that Jimmy Hughes had a tastefor methan fatamine. Hughes was fired as
a security guard in nineteen eighty fourand banned from the reservation. On his

(01:05:08):
way out, according to what wasreported by the sheriff, quote, he
meaning Hughes, became argumentative and belligerentand invited me to step outside. I
stepped outside with him, but hemade no effort to strike me. We
were joined by Charles wellmis security guard, Treasurer Wellmos, Virginia Wilmos Carol Teagarden,

(01:05:30):
all employees of the Bengal Palace.By the way, they sound like
strip of names. I'm sorry,Tea Garden, come on, what is
that? And Doctor John Nichols.Doctor Nichols tried to reason with him,
but to no avail. Jimmy Hughesdirected his angle toward Doctor Nichols told him
his days were numbered. A minuteor two later, just before entering his

(01:05:51):
car, he told Doctor Nichols quote, you better leave the state unquote.
On his way out of the parkinglot, three or four shots were fired.
I can only assume they were firedby Jimmy Hughes unquote for real.
Hmmm, interesting, Okay, it'skind of an asshole. Clearly clearly said

(01:06:11):
that's what I wrote here. Clearlyan asshole. We're after that. You're
pointing to the screen right like youcan see me. So we got meth
head Jimmy. We don't know.We don't know how he's connected yet,
truly. Uh. I mean he'snot too Abazon. That's established. That's
why I'm establishing here, and thathe knew Nichols threatened him and all that
got fired from working there, bannedfrom the reservation. But connected to the

(01:06:35):
triple murders. Well, he justsaid it, right, he said it,
and the heated thing that what peoplewere saying that he was a batman
for the Alvarez hit. We don'tknow if he had said that yet,
but you know, he is pissedat Nichols for something or other. I
will get to that. Don't worry. All this will be explained, but
yes he is. You're going tofind out he's something connected for sure.

(01:06:57):
Heading back to Rachel Begley in twothousand and seven, she became interested in
Jimmy Hughes because of articles written inthe eighties and nineties like Hussar's pieces.
A note to remember is that backin eighty four, Hughes implicated Nichols Senior
to police that he was using cashpayments to unidentified contract killers for the Alvarez

(01:07:18):
hit, which he called US governmentcovert action. He called it that we
don't know if it's true. Aftera while, police shifted suspicions to Hughes,
at which point fled town and thegrand jury investigation stopped just let him
go. Well, he fled tombefore they could, you know, properly

(01:07:41):
get him for it. But yeah, he told the police, Hey,
this guy might have killed loverus andlike, well, why do you know
that? So they turned their headsto him and he led. Basically,
they call him an informant, andthe report read, okay, yeah,
let's see where am I. Buthere's what Bagley found owned out and later
reported by places like WESQ, FoxNews and Wired and so forth. Begley

(01:08:08):
discovered that Hughes became an evangelical ministerstationed in Hondudas, but with programs all
over including the States, Honduras.Sorry I didn't say it the way way.
This ministry began, and this ministrybegan in nineteen ninety five, and
it provided services in Central America tobattered women, drug addicts, and others.

(01:08:32):
The website doesn't exist anymore, butit did have an autobiographical essay that
was written by Hughes. It talksabout how he had an elite military training,
which companies like the Wackenhut security firmwas known for doing, and had
a career as a contract killer thathis life was transformed when he was born

(01:08:56):
again. It was called Jimmy HughesHu's Ministries, and its headquarters was in
Miami, Florida. Jimmy Hughes kindof reminds me of David Burkowitz at the
end there, remember oh yeah,the big trains from me finding religion,
right, Yeah? Wow, whata convenient way to also have locations to

(01:09:18):
send guns to. Yeah, man, hot a gun running to Central America.
Maybe you know, established some placessome people I don't know. Interesting
man. Begley found out that Hugheswas scheduled to address an evangelical banquet in
Fresno, California, on February.On February two thousand and eight, Rachel

(01:09:42):
Begley had a hidden camera in herpurse as she confronted Jimmy Hughes. Quote.
Hughes, a stocky fifty one yearold with a graying bus cut and
raspy voice, bounded around, bellowingtales of his past brutality. Begley,
nervous and bleary eyed from a sleeplesscross country flight, exchanged incredulous text messages

(01:10:06):
with an accomplice who had come alongas backup, Mikael Alvarez, Fred's son.
Yeah, they banded totally Metica epos. When Hughes finished his performance,
Begley and Alvarez came forward with arush of adrenaline, introducing themselves to the
Sweatsiak evangelist evangelist as the children ofthe murder victims. Can't say nothing about

(01:10:31):
that, Hughes stammered. It's along time ago. It's in the past,
not for us, Begley said,insistently, we're trying to get resolution.
I don't care who got killed,Hughes shouted, attracting the bewildered attention
of others at the banquet. Iwas trained in the military. I killed
people all over the world, rightor wrong, because the government ordered me

(01:10:54):
to. Hughes stalked off, fuming, and Begley began to cry. That
seemed to bother the minister, becausehe came back, speaking in a tone
that was softer but full of veiledmenace. Apparently he had seen her web
videos. Are you aware that thatgoes all over the world? Are you
crazy? Lady, Hugh said,Think about your children. They need a

(01:11:17):
mother. He told Begley and Alvarezthat the murder was a mafia hit,
and though he didn't explicitly admit tocarrying it out, he intimated that he
knew much more. Your parents wereinvolved in some very dangerous things, Hughes
said, It's a lot bigger thanjust the murder of this guy or the
murder of that guy. You're talkingpolitical people. You've got babies to take

(01:11:42):
care of mama. Go home tonightand be at peace. Suddenly the murky
crime had come into focus, andthe conspiracy theories confronted with an unaccustomed feeling
vindication. Do you give me gaveme the chills, I hope. So

(01:12:02):
when he came back, that gaveme the chills. You got babies to
take care of mama. Yeah theway he said that, Now, what
a Hollywood scene. Yeah, thisfeels like I'm what a Hollywood scene?
Such a movie. I can seethis guy stalking around on stage right getting
getting people whipped up in a frenzy. He's whipped up in the friends I

(01:12:25):
think Kevin's face, it could doit. Yeah, I know he's like
taboo right now, but that's whyit would work. I don't think.
Yeah, he's been canceled. Uh. And then they have him come back
out and boom, right there infront of his face with the kids.
Oh, Vincent and Afria. He'sa big guy. He could to Vincent
and Affria would be good. Sorry, I don't know why we're pitching this.
Yeah, then boom there's the kidsof two of the murder victims.

(01:12:49):
Yeah, what a scene. Jesusright, here's something else here, part
of the same. All but oneof the videos remain from Rachel Bagley's YouTube
channel, which is called Desert Faye, Desert and then Faye Fae all one
word if you want to look atup Desert Faye. I have no concrete

(01:13:10):
reason why. Maybe it was howRachel was able to live in peace after
the events, but regardless, here'sa clip of her confrontation with Jimmy Hughes
a long time ago. Where's inthe past. I'm trying to get a
resolution a lot of things in mylife. Something I want to forget about

(01:13:36):
the past. It is so awfuland scary in my past. I don't
live there anymore. I don't gotnothing to do with that. Shrew the
FBI, screw the police, shreweverybody else in my past. I don't
care about my past. There's theworld I live in is shrewed up and
messed up. There's a lot ofhurt, there's a lot of you know.

(01:13:58):
What what you need to do islike God, come in your heart,
and what you need to do tosay, Lord, pray my father's
in heavens. I pray when Idie, I go to Lord. Do
you have children? Now? Doyou have children? Pray for your children,
love your children, to prevent yourchildren. Listen, what's your name?
What's your name? Let me tellyou something. You know, world

(01:14:24):
we live is full of a lotof things. But if you're a fast
need to do, no, I'mhappy you're making me make amends for what
for acting in our thought. Nono no, no, no no no
no no no no no no nono no no no no no no no
no no no no no. Excuseme. I'm fifty one years old.
I'll turn fifty one three days ago. I had to give a crap about

(01:14:46):
that. So let me tell yousomething. Let me put it very clear.
Let me put a care about people. People don't oh my life not
w's my life. And I'm notafraid of you. And I'm not afraid
of what people saying. Let metell you something. I'm not afraid of
what people don't. Make me abreak. Let me tell you something.
I go to bet at night witha clear conscience. I don't wake up

(01:15:06):
the boil with a clear contry.So let me tell you something about my
past. My past is dead.I don't care about my past, my
passes, my past is none ofyour business. There's none of your business.
There's nobody's business. I don't carewho died. I don't care who
got killed. I was trained inthe military. I kill people all over

(01:15:27):
the world. Right, we're wrongbecause the government or go to the colts,
go to the police and ask then, why don't they get off their
butt and take about the Nichols jailor somebody who has something to do with
it all. I'm not allowed tosay anything. Don't you understand? Okay,
I'm not allowed to say anything?Is it not allowed to say nothing?

(01:15:49):
The catch is that there are thereare other people. I know.
It's a little hard to hear anda little fast. So that's why I
wanted to mention the put in thedialogue of what he said first and then
put the clip in so hopefully youguys understood it fine enough and followed it.
But yeah, that's what the motherfuckersaid. So and that was from

(01:16:13):
her secret courting her heeading camera andher camera wow audio And obviously the camera
itself doesn't show anything because it's inthe purse, so it's just the audio
really, but still it's all it'sall him. Yeah, wow, Rachel
didn't take this line down. Shejoined forces with a man named John Powers.
Here's a bit of Powers from hisLinkedIn bio that I found. He

(01:16:38):
began his career with law enforcement innineteen eighty five with the Coastguard, and
starting in nineteen eighty nine, hebegan He's sorry he began. He spent
the next twenty six years with theRiverside County Sheriff's Department as a patrolman,
narcotics investigator, homicide detective, andfinally sergeant. John was selected to develop

(01:16:58):
and implement a cold case team.While he was a homicide detective, John
Powers connected with Begley after seeing thevideo of her encounter with Jimmy Hughes,
saying, quote the statements she gotfrom him, no police officer would have
ever been able to get unquote.Powers was tasked to get into the nineteen

(01:17:19):
eighty one murders and formed a partnershipwith Rachel Begley to arrest Jimmy Hughes.
That's right, because now it's reopenedat this point. Yeah, yeah,
A few things to note at thistime. Remember that grand jury investigation that
began in the eighties by Riverside policeagainst Jimmy Hughes. This is when he

(01:17:39):
informed on the police that John Nicholswas responsible right for paying someone off to
kill Alvarez. That investigation that hadbarely begun anyway, John Powers found it
odd that he could not find it. He said it had simply disappeared.
Of course, I don't know whatthat means. He doesn't know either.

(01:18:00):
After what the article called procedural wrangling, a warrant was finally issued for Jimmy
Hughes in August two thousand and nine. He was arrested at Miami Dade International
Airport in October trying to get toHodudas fifty two years old. In two
thousand and nine, Hughes faced threecounts of murder in the execution style shootings

(01:18:21):
of Cabison tribal official Alfred Alvarez andhis friends Patricia Castro and Ralph Boger.
There was also a count of conspiracyto commit a crime very important. The
official reason for the warrant goes basicallylike this. Hughes conspired with John Philip
Nichols and his son John Paul,as well as other parties, to prevent

(01:18:45):
Alvarez from exposing illegal activities occurring atthe Cabison Indian Reservation. It's beginning to
feel like the final fifteen minutes ofa crime thriller movie. Jumping to July
one, the twenty ninth anniversary ofthe Triple murders, an important hearing takes
place in an Indian courtroom. Octopuscommunity vets like Cherry Seymour sits among the

(01:19:11):
reporters. This is the part ofthe movie where justice is carried out,
but alas it does not quote.Then Michael Murphy, a dapper prosecutor from
the Attorney General's office, rose anddelivered a shocking blow. We have lost
confidence in our ability to proceed withthe prosecution, he said. Begley closed

(01:19:31):
her eyes tightly as the prosecutor gavea vague reason for his sudden about face,
something about new information and a reassessmentof the evidence. Afterwards, Powers
stood next to Begley outside the courtroomas she addressed the television cameras sobbing.
The detective was disgusted by the outcome. The Attorney General's office gave no further

(01:19:56):
public explanation for its decision, butPower sensed that the prosecutors were eager to
dump the case. Murphy, hesaid, started to question the credibility of
the witnesses that Begley had uncovered.Throughout all this, Begley had used Twitter
and Facebook to mobilize the Octopus believersto pressure Murphy sorry, and at least

(01:20:20):
a few called the prosecutor to urgehim to look beyond Hughes and dig into
the myriad connection that they had spentdecades documenting. Begley's devotion and inventive use
of the Internet had helped ensnare Hughes, but the obsessions of her fellow travelers
may have helped to undermine the prosecutor'sconfidence. Oh Man Murphy declined to comment

(01:20:45):
unquote, so so her fellow conspiracyhm hmm. Like they went through hard
and they got they were too excited, like they like they found out that
the girl said yes to the firstdid and they go there and the two
fucking nervous. They talked too fuckingfast. They're too excited, and they
ruined the date and they destroyed thecredibility. Ye oh what a kick and

(01:21:06):
the teeth. I mean, youcan't talk to conspiracy there is because if
we'rever actually proven, right, howare we going to contain themselves? How
how will you contain yourself? Jay? We can't, We can't, I
can't anyway. On July second,twenty ten, the l Day Time has
had a little more on this matter. Quote. During a court hearing in

(01:21:30):
Indio, Deputy Attorney General Mike Murphytold a Weverside County Superior Court judge that
his office was dropping the charges becauseof new evidence uncovered by state prosecutor prosecutors
sorry investigating the twenty nine year oldcase. Neither Murphy nor a spokesman for
Attorney General Jerry Brown provided details onthose new findings. So I don't know

(01:21:54):
what it was. We conducted anexhausted and exhaustive review of the evidence.
Pro by the Sheriff's Department. Were interviewed key witnesses and uncovered additional evidence
tied to the case, said EvanWestrop, a spokesman for Brown. This
process and the new information of ouroffice and the new information or office discovered

(01:22:16):
materially changed our assessment of the natureand quality of the evidence. Hughes was
expected to be released from jail,authority, said. The Attorney General's Office
asked that the charges be dismissed withoutprejudice, meaning charges could be filed at
a later date. The Attorney General'sOffice had been prosecuting the case because Hughes

(01:22:40):
is a distant cousin of Riverside County'sDistrict Attorney Rod Pacheco. Pacheco lost a
bid for reelection in June to RiversideCounty Superior Court Judge Paul Salerback, however,
creating the possibility that the new districtattorney could take over the case.
So that's why I was sent tothis other distric because there was an actual

(01:23:01):
conflict of interest here. Wow,didn't see that one coming. No,
I didn't see that one in eithercoming. But nothing's come from it.
I looked up in the sky it'spretty normal. Begley, who worked closely
with detectives from the Riverside County Sheriff'sDepartment, was livid about the prosecutorous decision
to drop the charges. This isa miscarriage of justice. The case against

(01:23:24):
him, since it was filed ninemonths ago, has not changed. Begley
said, I'm not going to giveup. I'm not done. I'm going
to speak justice for my dad,Fred and Patricia Hughes, an ex Army
ranger and former security director at theCabinson Casino and Tribess Bingo Operations, was
charged in October with the crimes dubbedthe Octopus murders because the tentacles of complex

(01:23:48):
conspiracy spread worldwide. Nut now rightaway, I should say that this piece
reinforces a lie told back in newsarticles in the nineteen eighties when people thought
Jimmy Hughes was a security director,which he wasn't. He was just a
security officer. Is sis? Isthis guy still around as far as that?

(01:24:12):
I'm okay, I mean I justlooked at it present day. Yeah.
Yeah. And this this woman BegleyMan, she has some balls,
I would say, so wow,Yeah, okay, I'm with you.
Yeah, I'm all right, wealmost done with this one case. By
the way, there's two cases today, guys. Two murders, I mean

(01:24:34):
two deaths, are two different whatever, you know what I mean? Two
events? Two events. That's better. That's one and one. Yeah,
it's so crazy, Okay, Iknow now you see where I was going
through. I have two more looseends here to tie two bombs. Maybe.
The Desert Sun reported something very interestingin December twenty seventeen. Oh,

(01:24:59):
you're gonna love this. This isso this is recent. Yeah, this
is the reason. Oh my god, you're gonna love this is why I
feel like I have more information.This is all past ten stuff. This
is the most recent I get.Fifty nine year old Russell Huber of Oroville,
California, was sentenced to life inprison without the possibility of parole for
killing a man named Clyde Gregory Haywardon July sixth, nineteen ninety two.

(01:25:24):
Hayward was from Desert Palm, aresort city from Coachella Valley, and was
supposed was supposed to meet his girlfriendfor a date on July second. His
pickup truck was found two weeks lateron Highway ninety five with dried blood and
two three eighty shell casings found aboutone hundred yards from the vehicle. The

(01:25:45):
victims remains were found in a streambed in Clark County, Nevada, in
February nineteen ninety three that long time, but warn't positively identified until May twentieth,
twenty fourteen. The NA sorry.The d NA analysis and meticulous forensic
work found Russell Huber in front ofa jury, which only took three hours

(01:26:10):
of deliberations to arrive at a guiltyverdict. Quote. Hayward's girlfriend, whose
name was not disclosed, told detectivesat the time that she had turned down
a marriage proposal from her employer,John Nichols and believed he was behind her
boyfriend's disappearance, but there was noconcrete evidence. The prosecution alleged that,

(01:26:32):
after being rejected by the victim's girlfriend, Nichols a range of fake business meeting
with Hayward under the guise of securinggolf carts for a development project. Hayward,
a golf mechanic who previously had workedfor a golf cart distributor, was
killed after he showed up to meetwith Huber and Peter Boncour A longtime associate

(01:26:55):
of the defendant. According to theDistrict Attorney's office, Russell Huber and this
Peter Boncour met in prison in theeighties. As I said before, this
Nichols family, especially John Philip Nichols, God shit done. So what happened
to the Nichols I mentioned how hiswife Joanne worked in the offices of Cabison

(01:27:19):
Mission Tribe. She was pretty trueblue and died working for them of natural
causes. John Paul Nichols, theson, is simply retired now. John
Nichols, I also mentioned, diedin two thousand and one. I believe
it was heart failure. What's interestingis what happened. On July of nineteen

(01:27:41):
eighty five, John Philip Nichols pleadedno contest to two counts of solicitation to
commit murder, receiving a four yearsentence. This murder for higher scheme went
awry because Nichols met with the twosupposed hitmen, who turned out to be
police informed. Yeah, the twointended victims were residents of Indio, California.

(01:28:05):
I have no names for there wouldbe victims. By the way,
Nichols was sixty at the time anddue to ongoing health issues, and the
fact that no one was harmed itlessened the prison time. No motives were
mentioned by police when they arrested Nicholsfor the murder solicitations, but they believed
they were drug related. This drugangle might have originated from Nichols itself,

(01:28:30):
because he was placed in protective custodyin Chino for it and was placed near
the infirmary for health reasons. Sothey were protecting them for something, or
he was protecting himself in advance fromprison from the general population exactly. So
what do you think of this,these two things? What do you mean?

(01:28:50):
Well, Okay, I'm trying tosay while I was saying it,
although I'm going to say it now, this motherfucker had Avaice killed Ran.
I mean, we it kind ofsounds that way. I mean, we
find another headman hitman who brought anotherheadman along, this boncoor guy. After

(01:29:11):
all this, after so many yearsin the twenty seventeen, right, they
find out that these two men inprison and this guy, the victim's girlfriend
dated or maybe was being sought afterby this Nichols senior guy. Makes it
kind of connects too easily that thesetwo headmen could have been the original killers
hired by Nicholas back then in eightyone. Well, you got to have

(01:29:34):
a someone in general or just ingeneral for other things. You know.
If they killed this one guy inthe eighties, right, yeah, he's
worked for me before, let's doit again. Or they've worked for me
before, let's do it again.Wow, Okay, interesting? Yep.

(01:29:54):
Not nice people, no, nicepeople, no, no, no no.
I think that out of the manylessons and takeaways the story brings,
one that must not be forgotten isthat some choos never stay buried, and
that sometimes the conspiracy nuts are provencorrect or as correct as history will allow
us. As promised, here's theTikTok video of Rachel Begley's daughter, tell

(01:30:17):
me conspiracy that sounds crazy but istrue. I'll start the octopus murders.
What's that. Well, in nineteeneighty one, a Cabzon Indian tribal leader
named fred Alvarez, a Hell's angelnamed Ralph Boger, and their friend Patricia
Castro were murdered. In nineteen ninetyone, there was a reporter named Danny

(01:30:40):
Cassilero. He was looking into themurders of those three. He even started
saying he probably had a break inthe case and it could implicate people in
the US Justice Department. So naturally, a few days after saying that they
found him that of apparent suicide,twelve slashes on his wrist, one deep
enough to sever attendant. In twothousand and seven, the Hell's Angel's daughter,

(01:31:02):
she got a little curious and startedlooking into it too, and she
got threats, but she also gotenough evidence to actually bring somebody to trial,
a trial that got dropped because ofundisclosed new information. Why do I
know all this? Ralph Boger's mygrandpa, and my mom was the one
getting threatened. Now I realized thatthere's still a lot of information left unexplained

(01:31:28):
on the table, plus the teasesof outo left field keywords like the Reagan
administration and the fucking Yakuza. Istill have another death to cover before we
enter tonight's show. At death Wesh, Princess talks briefly about a journalist that
was found dead after looking into theTriple murders in nineteen eighty one, and
that he had found some key informationthe circumstances around his apparent suicide, the

(01:31:53):
book he was working on, andthe sources he was amassing is what makes
this story too big for one show. Part two will cover the big and
small players that I simply could notget into today, which is why this
next segment will interest you but alsoleave you wanting more. Let's get into
it. Whatever the number of sourcesand publications that talks about the nineteen eighty

(01:32:16):
one Triple murders, there's at leastdouble that amount for this journalist. His
name was Joseph Daniel Cassilero. Everyonecalled him Danny or Daniel. And for
this segment, amongst the articles writtenin the nineties and two thousands, I
will use two opposing books as sources. One is called When Fiction Becomes Fact

(01:32:38):
The Death of Danny Castilero from Juneof this year, not this year.
Second book is titled The Octopus,Secret Government and the Death of Danny Casilero
from ninety six. And it's easyto tell which book believes in the conspiracy
which doesn't by the titles alone.All right, background on Danny Castilero goes
like this. Born in nineteen fiveseven, Danny came from a big Italian

(01:33:01):
American Catholic family in McLean, Virginia. McLean rested in northern Virginia in Fairfax
County, and his home to peoplefrom the military, diplomats, and government
official officials due to its close proximityto Washington, d C. The Casteleras
are not connected to DC in anyway, but since Danny's father was a

(01:33:24):
doctor, the family was stable butnot rich, you know, like rich
light maybe rich light. I don'tknow why I say those things. Danny
was seen as gregarious, a womanizer, and enjoyed a drink in his hand.
It's safe to say that he frequentedthe bars of any town he visited.

(01:33:45):
He married a former Miss Virginia namedTarrell Pace, and they had a
son together named Trey. After tenyears, they divorced and Danny was granted
legal custody over Trey. His careerhas peaks and valleys, but nothing long
lasting or stable. He freelanced asa journalist for different publications here and there,

(01:34:08):
usually political and world news pieces,but Danny also was an amateur boxer.
He wrote poetry in short stories,and even wrote a novel titled The
Ice King in eighty one, theyear of our triple slayings. From the
late seventies up to the end ofthe eighties, Danny Casilero acquired a series
of computer industry trade publications, whichhe sold. This last bit is useful

(01:34:32):
because when he decided to take upjournalism again in the early nineties, his
entrance to this Octopus conspiracy was ofa computer software scandal with the with the
US Department of Justice. Very interestingthere. Danny was in the middle of
writing a book when he died.It was untitled, and most of the

(01:34:55):
papers were held in his briefcase oran accordion file holder thing, you know,
all those things. It became almostlike a characteristic seeing Danny carrying his
papers nearly everywhere with him. I'mnot going to get into the details,
but Danny was trying to find apublisher for his book. He needed the
advance and or the resources that thebacking of a publishing house could bring for

(01:35:17):
him, but he was not successful. Three pitches, three meetings, and
they turned them down. Everything thatwent into writing the book, Travel Connections
Paperwork was self funded. Sources donot say that the book led to his
money troubles, but around the sametime, Danny was talking to lawyers about

(01:35:39):
needing to sell the house he livedor he'd lose it due to back taxes.
In the past, Danny's supports system. His family did help him with
loans, but the house problem wastoo big to solve at the time of
his death. Now, in thedays leading to his death, Danny's friends
and family were interviewed by US slewof people like local police, FBI journalists,

(01:36:03):
and others. There is a surprisingamount of information of the days leading
up to his death, the dayof, and the weeks afterward. It
is as meticulous of a character studyas a big conspiracy legend like Lee Harvey
Oswald said that word Lee Harvey Oswald. Okay, I'll give you guys some

(01:36:26):
examples and highlights. I'm not goingto tell you everything. Oh, that's
another book entirely just on the dayto day everyone. They mentioned a lot
of names. I'm not gonna getinto all it, but I'll give you
highlights and a little bit on eachday. On August fifth, nineteen ninety
one, Danny spoke to his brotherAnthony Casilaro about not being able to get
enough sleep lately because of phone callshe'd been getting in the middle of the

(01:36:47):
night. This wasn't a new thing, though Danny had been receiving these interruptive
calls for three months prior to hisdeath. Quote. Later that day,
and Klank, a friend and journalist, saw Castilero's car parked outside Hunter's Bar
in Oakton, Virginia. Clank wentinside and saw Castilero head slumped down sitting

(01:37:11):
at the bar. Cassilero looked terrible. Cassilero looked at Clank and said,
in a tone of disgust, Ijust broke in slaw. Bill Hamilton's going
to be real excited. Cassilero thentold Clank, you can have the story,
and if you don't want it,you can give it to Jack Anderson.

(01:37:31):
Clink had once worked as a reporterfor syndicated columnist Jack Anderson. Cassilero
told Clank that he had got justgotten back from West Virginia and that he
was going back again. Clank wasworried about Casilero. She said that his
mood was not one that one wouldexpect of a journalist who had just broken

(01:37:53):
a big story. She ordered apizza for him, begged him to eat
something, and left. Unquote.Tuesday, August sixth, Danny called two
journalists about the Octopus book treatment he'dsent to them for discussion. Here,
he mentions to his colleagues that hewas leaving to meet an anonymous source that

(01:38:15):
would make a pretty big dent inthis conspiracy. To Martinsburg, West Virginia,
a neighbor named Olga Mocros. Idon't know why I say that way.
Olga Mocros was Danny's longtime housekeeper andshe helped him pack for his trip.
Olga asked Danny if she should sparehis she should prepare, sorry,

(01:38:35):
prepare his home for his son Trey, who was due to visit in about
two weeks. Danny Cassilera told herthat she wouldn He sorry that he would
not see Trey anymore, and thenhe led her to his basement his basement
office, i should say, andshowed Olga where he kept his will.
This was the last time she sawDanny. Olga told the Village Voice.

(01:39:00):
This is after, obviously that sheanswered several threatening calls that day. One
of them, for example, wasa man that said this is a quote.
Now I will cut his body andthrow it to the sharks. Shit.
On Wednesday, August seventh, Casilero'sclose drinking buddy friend came to his
house for a visit. He describedCasilero's mood as exuberant and showed Mason papers

(01:39:25):
in his basement office. Mason recallsseeing a photocopy of a passport of a
young man named Ibrahim. This nextbit is mildly important. Mildly important,
and the reason I'm bringing it up, and the reason I'm bringing up this
photo copy quote. On August twentyninth, nineteen ninety one, weeks after

(01:39:45):
Danny's death, and on September twentyseventh, nineteen ninety one, the Martinsburg
Police received copies of a passport photoof an Arab named Hassan Ali Ibrahim Ali.
This may have been this same photographthat Castilero had shown to Ben Mason
in his basement office on Wednesday,August seventh. There is no evidence that

(01:40:08):
Castelero ever met Ibraim, or thatIbraim, whoever he is, had anything
to do with Castilero's death. It'sodd, but I wanted to mention that
connection because his friend saw a photographyof a passport. It said, Abraim
looked Arab got to this time laterhe recognizes it, you know, recognized

(01:40:30):
that's such a personal document. Yeah, for someone to have a copy of
basement, Yeah, yeah, veryweird. I don't have much on that
right now, but it's odd.On Thursday, August eighth, Castilero drove
to Martinsburg, West Virginia and checkedinto the Sheraitan Inn just off of Interstate
eighty one. Check in was betweennoon and one o'clock in the afternoon.

(01:40:54):
He mentioned to the desk clerk thathe was late for a meeting, so
he'd have to open his room later, which is Room five to seven,
and the clerk did notice Danny carryinga beat up black or brown briefcase.
He wasn't sure. Danny headed tothe bar at the Stone Crab Inn and
mentions to the bartender, Tom Hatches, whom he recognized the year previous working

(01:41:15):
at the Sheraton, ind that he'swaiting to meet some Arabs. No one
came, so at about one pointthirty Danny asked for some change and went
outside where a payphone was stationed,but no one saw or heard the call.
From here, he goes to PizzaHut and drinks considerably more than his
food portions, which was a smallpizza. Leaving at four pm. Cassilero

(01:41:41):
then heads to Hartsfield's Lounge and thebartender recalls his orders, starting off as
bottled beer but switching to draft becauseit was cheaper. They should tell you
a lot about his drinking. There'sthree different places he's drinking in the afternoon,
just saying motherfucker drinks quote Hittrick.The bartender did not see Cassilera talking

(01:42:03):
with any one else that night.However, the bar maid, Kim Waters,
told a different story. The policeoriginally met her by chance when they
went to the home of one ofthe shirts and desk clerks to interview him
three days after Cassilero's death. Shehappened to be at at the desk clerk's
home. The police showed her Casilero'sphotograph. She said she remembered seeing him

(01:42:28):
at the bar, but could notremember anything else. Later that day,
she contacted the police, saying shehad not remembered that Cassilero had arrived at
the bar at about five ten pm. And that he had sat at
a table with another man whom shedescribed as dark skinned, like maybe Iranian
or Arabian. Oh Waters recalled thatboth men were drinking draft beer, and

(01:42:51):
that the Arabian man was drinking veryfast and was very insistent that the bar
maids served him quickly. She claimsto have served four beers each to Castelero
and the other man. She saidthe other man paid for all the beers
in cash. Three days later,Waters helped the police prepare a composite drawing

(01:43:12):
of this Arabian person. No onehas been able to determine who this person
is was, if indeed there wassuch a person. Wow, Okay,
some plots definitely thickening here, likecorn starts on Sunday. I don't know.
I gotta think Dona Rodde Bakers realizedI'm a star on Sunday. Yeah,

(01:43:39):
okay. That last part, ifindeed there was such a person,
is the bias of the author comingout against any actual conspiracy like in play,
but I digress does the meeting withthe Middle Eastern fellow at Heartfield's heart
Heather Sorry, Heatherfields, I said, heart Fields. It's heather Fields Lounge.

(01:44:00):
Be this Ibrahim or related to himin some way? I don't know.
Friday, August ninth is the lastday Danny Casselera was seen alive.
Danny told the front desk that he'dbeen staying an additional night. He wasn't
originally going to stay the nextra night. It was just supposed to be one
night, but he asked for another. Here's where I gotta tease you guys

(01:44:20):
with something juicy, but snatching itback right after. Danny Cassillo had two
prime sources, actually fountains of informationfor his Octopus book. One of them
was a man named Bill Hamilton,who's involved neck deep with the inslaw scandal
and the promised software and they hada strong friendship. Bill was worried for

(01:44:43):
Danny on that Friday because there hadbeen days since their last phone call Monday
to be exact, and they keepin touch nearly every day. It's kind
of cute. Actually, they usedto play chess over the phone. Yeah,
I love that. It's a realromance. Bill knew of the meeting
but not the person, but thatit was related to the Octopus and expected

(01:45:06):
him back home earlier. Bill endedup calling Danny's ex and in turn would
wait to hear back from Danny.Obviously, it never happened. From the
afternoon, Castelero's whereabouts are mostly knowndrinking beer here, coffee, or eating

(01:45:27):
something there. At about six pm, he plays a collect call to his
mother's house, saying that he mightnot make his niece's birthday party since he
was still in Martinsburg. A littleafter midnight, Castilero walked across the street
to the convenience store for some coffeeand made conversation with the clerk and another
witness before returning back to the hotel. The only times that are unaccounted for

(01:45:53):
are between noon and two o'clock andsix and nine pm, but he was
most likely in the hotel room.That's what people say. That's kind of
what I say too, I guess. The next day, Saturday, August
tenth, Castilera was supposed to checkout at noon, so while at around
one o'clock, the maid assigned tothe fifth floor went in, noticed the

(01:46:15):
bathroom door hallway halfway open, sawblood and called for help. Quote Castillaro's
nude body was in the bathtub,The water was bloody, the water temperature
was cold. The tub was aboutthree to half was about half to three
fourths full. Castillarra was sitting withhis feet toward the faucet. He was

(01:46:38):
leaning against the side of the tub, his head slumped over the side.
His right arm was hanging over theside of the tub, and his right
hand was lying flat on the floor. His left hand was submerged underwater,
tucked beneath his left thigh. Bothof Castilaro's wrists had cut wounds. The

(01:46:58):
fingernails on the thumb, forefinger,and middle finger of his right hand appeared
to have been chewed. Danny's wristhad been deeply slashed three or four on
his right wrist and seven or aright on his left wow. Blood was
splattered on the walls and the floor. Next to the bathtub rested the wrapper

(01:47:24):
from the razor blade and a halfempty bottle of a Portuguese white wine.
An ashtray with three cigarette butts wason top of the toilet tank, as
well as a pack of cigarettes amongDanny's fingerprints. Another was found on the
ashtray, and it has not beenidentified to this day. Unfortunately, beyond

(01:47:45):
speculation, I have nothing else onthis ashtray. There were no signs of
a struggle or fourth entry to thebathroom or hotel room. The rooms adjacent
and a cross room five point seventeenwere full as part of one party of
people in town for a soccer game. They heard nothing unusual throughout the night,
and they didn't leave their rooms tillmorning. His wallet and identification was

(01:48:11):
found in the room. The policealso found a large black cope bag which
contained an empty bottle of Vicodin pills, one box of hefty trash bags with
two bags missing from the role,an unopened second bottle of the same white
wine, one corkscrew, and threepacks of cigarettes. I should note here

(01:48:32):
that the vicant empty bottle of Vikadinwas the last remnants of his subscription he
had from a dental surgery he hadthe year previous. I see they heard
that later. I didn't write thathere. I don't know why. Lastly,
illegal pad was found on the nightstandin room five point seventeen. A

(01:48:53):
single page was torn from the padand it read to those who I love
the most, Please forgive me forthe worst for the worst possible thing I
could have done. Most of all, I'm sorry to my son. I
know deep down inside that God willlet me in. Oh man, that's

(01:49:14):
sad. Yeah, we don't sayyeah, Well, I mean, so
if you killed himself. There's acouple of reasons, I guess right.
One is sounds like he was insort of financial ruin, which is very
embarrassing for an adult male. Rightit's a bad place to find yourself.
Very embarrassing. Uh too, youknow he was onto this octopus thing?

(01:49:39):
Did someone kill him and stage thescene? But ThReD and his family you
know him, right? Yeah?Yeah? Absolutely? And then of course
this uh, this dark skinned fellow, you know, we don't know who
he is and what happened to him? The source, right, the source,
Yeah, the Wow, there's alot going on. There, a

(01:50:00):
lot going on here. You're right. Signs of suicide are parent and no
one would think otherwise or anything elseupon first hearing the details or walking into
the bathroom. Right, this mightbe the best time to insert another clip.
Have you heard of a show calledUnsolved Mysteries? You know, I

(01:50:21):
have? I love it? Yeah, I've on't seen a few episodes that
way. It's a TV show thatstarted in nineteen eighty seven and had eleven
seasons with different celebrity hosts. Notunlike Twilight Zone, Unsolved Mysteries has had
a resurgence lately when Netflix renewed iton their platform. The show focused on

(01:50:42):
real cases of perplexing disappearances, shockingmurders, and paranormal encounters, kind of
like SOS, the TV show youknow, Oh, one could only dream.
One could only dream, right?Can you imagine being at a TV
show host? I don't that Icould do it? My hair, I
forget it. I'm the makeup tonenoise. On March tenth, nineteen ninety

(01:51:02):
three, Unsolved Mysteries released their twentyfourth episode of their fifth season. In
one of the topics, the firstone actually was about Danny Casilero. Let's
hear a segment of it. Itis edited for time and spoilers. Just
a few days before Danny Castilearro died, he told friends that he was on

(01:51:26):
the verge of breaking a huge story. Danny claimed to have proof that some
officials in the US Justice Department werecorrupt. Many suspect that Danny's death was
not a suicide. They believe thathe was murdered because he was the man
who knew too much for direct connectionswith some of the underworld crime figures.
Not only Danny Casilo stepped into aworld that he didn't belong in, the

(01:51:49):
type of people that he became involvedwith lae just as a matter of course,
they lie, they cheat. Thereare people who've been involved in numerous
murders, dealing drugs, deal inHalms and Danny Casilo thought he could find
his way through this labry by himself. That was a mistake. Then the

(01:52:11):
guys that I've been working with,my contacts, and they're calling me and
say, look, Danny, you'regetting too close. You're going to get
hurt. Back off. A weekbefore he died, Danny told his brother
Tony that he had been receiving deaththreats. I don't recognize your voices.
I don't know where they're coming from. They're just saying you are going to
die. I'll tell you this,Solf when I go to Martinsburg. If

(01:52:32):
something happens to me, or ifI should get hurt, don't believe it's
an accident. Danny arrived in Martinsburgwith all of his notes and documents two
days before he died. He wasscheduled to meet with several informants and complete
his investigation. He believed one ofthese new contacts would deliver key evidence about

(01:52:57):
the finances of the Octopus. Theday before he died, Danny met with
William Turner. He was a formeremployee of a major defense contractor. He
has some documentation. Do you havesomething for me? According to Turner,
he gave Danny papers showing the corruptionthat Danny believed was tied to the octopus,

(01:53:19):
but within twenty four hours, DannyCastilero was dead. There was no
sign of Turner's documents or Danny's researchpapers. To this day, not one
of those papers has been found.The media was all over the story.
West Virginia authorities opened the formal investigationand ordered an autopsy. Assistant medical Zamer

(01:53:45):
for the State of West Virginia hesaid, well, you know, he's
already been embalmed, and that's goingto make it a little difficult. And
I said, what are you talkingabout. He's already been embombed. And
he said, well, he wasembombed apparently already. He said, you
didn't know that. I said,absolutely not. I said, we didn't
give any permission. I'm now goingto cut the sutures to examine the wounds.

(01:54:08):
The autopsy confirmed that Danny had bledto death from the twelve razor cuts,
but more importantly, it revealed thatDanny wasn't alone in his hotel room
during his last moments. There wason The actual autopsy report described a bruise
on the arm and a bruise onthe head, which were never accounted for.

(01:54:30):
I was told there were no signsof any struggle. Additionally, the
tips of three fingernails were missing fromone hand when Danny's hotel room was cleaned
the day after. Is that bya professional cleaning crew? Important evidence was
destroyed. One of the housekeepers sawtwo bloody towels in the bathroom minutes after

(01:54:53):
Danny's body was found. It lookedlike they were used to wipe blood off
the bathroom floor. The police reportsof the investigation certainly not a professional Fingerprints
get lost, messed up. Theydrained the tub without austraina sloppy work.
Police have a rule in this country, and government people have a rule.

(01:55:14):
When they screw up, they coverup. Said, but true. Do
I think they covered up here?Yes? I do. Even Danny's funeral
was clouded by mystery. At thefuneral, a highly decorated military officer arrived
in a limousine near the end ofthe service. No one recognized him.

(01:55:35):
What did they do? The mancarefully placed a medal on the casket just
before was lowered into the ground.And we went back to Francis's house,
Danny's mother's house, And I saidFrancis, who was the military man,
and she said, I thought,you know, and we asked everyone there.

(01:55:55):
There had to be fifty people atFrancis. No one knew who they
were. No one. Sorry ifthe editing was choppy, but I didn't
want to spoil you guys on informationthat is way too dense, especially in
a TV program. If you dowatch the episode, just know that there's
two layers deeper that I'll be sharingin part two. According to what I

(01:56:19):
have, the embalming did occur beforethe family was notified. Martinsburg City paramedic
David Brining was asked by Charles Brown, owner of Brown's Funeral home, if
the body could be embalmed. Brianingdid release the body, and because the

(01:56:39):
death was deemed to be a suicide, no autopsy was necessary. Two mistakes
occur from this. The first isthat Brown doesn't do a full job of
embalming Danny's body, missing his bladderand liver. The second is that Brining
should have made sure that the nextof kin was notified first before releasing the

(01:57:00):
body. Under West Virginia law,a deceased body may not be embalmed unless
the authorities have first made due inquiryas to the desires of the next of
kin. However, it was commonpractice for funeral homes in Martinsburg to do
this when dealing with outsiders, peoplewho didn't live there. This part was

(01:57:21):
reported heavily and cited as a strangefact that supports conspiracy and murder. I
cannot say for sure, people domake mistakes and all, but adding in
the revolving evidence of what Danny knewand what we know, and it doesn't
look good for just the suicide,you know what I'm saying. I mean,

(01:57:41):
it certainly raised eyebrows. Yes,yes, for sure when I read
that, Like, come on,anyway, I mean, do they even
make any attempt to contact Trey forexample Danny's no, no, no,
I'm about to get into a littlebit of that, but no they don't.
I mean they do eventually, butnot before the embalming. It's my
point. You know. The Cassilerafamily weren't notified of Danny's death until August

(01:58:03):
eleventh. Martinsburg police say it wasmiscommunication within the officers, but again,
who knows regardless. Upon hearing thenews, Anthony Cassilero immediately asked Detective Swarth
Swartwood, sorry, who was assignedto Casilero and placed the initial call to

(01:58:25):
perform an autopsy immediately that his brotherhad warned him that his life might be
in danger. There are a coupleof conflicting things in the Unsolved Mysteries clip,
though. The first is that theparamedic Brining did find a bruise on
Cassilero's arm, but an injury,even a minor one, was not mentioned

(01:58:45):
to the head of the head,so the video says it was a headwe
Banara there was no one in herreport. The video also talks about how
a professional cleaning crew came the nextday to rid the room of any evidence.
That is not true or at leastrubs against with what I read,
which is that the room was leftundisturbed the rest of Saturday and all day

(01:59:08):
Sunday. What is odd is thatpolice did not officially seal the room before
they left. The hotel manager leftthe room undisturbed. It was a civilian
who kept the room undisturbed, notthe authorities. Now, the bloody towels
in the bathroom is interesting. Officialssaid that Danny, in a drunken stupor

(01:59:30):
or and delirium from the loss ofblood, saw the blood on the floor
and wanted to clean it up,you know, to not make a mistake
or I'm a mess. Sorry.I guess it is possible, but logically
it could mean that someone was thereor came afterward and cleaned the bloody footprint
they made in the bathroom. Withthe other mistakes Martinsburg police made, it

(01:59:53):
is just as likely that evidence ofstruggle or suspicious activities were found in room
five point seventeen, but the tramplingdone by authorities caused them to cover it
up to avoid shame and repercussion.M hmm. There's a lot more to
talk about, but we are nearingthe end here. But what do you
think of that so far? Whywould they leave the room unsealed? Do

(02:00:18):
they want someone to walk in thereand screw screw the crime scene? Well,
it's obvious that they thought it wasa simple suicide, but still I
don't know how that works with Idon't know how procedure works in that sense,
but either way, they should probablykeep away anyone that might come in.
Right, it's still bloody and shed, absolutely right, and then a

(02:00:39):
bruise to the head. Yeah,so right, So the edit magic of
editing, You didn't actually hear theclip. Everyone else did. But on
the clip in the Unsolved Mysteries theysay that two bruises were found on Danny's
body that the brother was not awareof. You know, he was only
aware of the slashes to his wrists, right, But one bruise was on

(02:00:59):
his arm, upper arm, andthen the other supposedly his head. That's
what the Unsolved Mysteries clip says.That is not true with what I read.
The paramedic brinding found the bruise onthe arm, sure, but not
the head. So community the differenceslike where they embellished something? Okay,
at least what I could find.The other one being the towels maybe,
but I want to mention as muchof the details as I can, at

(02:01:21):
least the weird ones. And yeah, use towles clean up bloody footprint.
Right, that was all my theoryright there, But yeah, still that
could be that. Wow, wheream I fuck hold on? Okay?
Here's two more things that the cliptalks about are Bill Turner and the military

(02:01:44):
presence at Danny's funeral. The BillTurner element is a cog in a bigger
discussion, and I honestly don't knowif he and Danny met on August ninth,
nineteen ninety one. As he said, either way, his role in
the Octopus conspiracy is more than justa meeting. The fun thing about the
military officer that no relative or friendof Danny's recognized is that I do not

(02:02:09):
yet know what that's about. I'mstill very much reading and discovering new things
each day, but I'll try toget to the bottom of it. Maybe
just one of his sources or somethingcould be. But we don't know why
he had a home general looking guy. You know, we don't know anything
about him so far. I don'tyet. Yeah. One thing that I

(02:02:30):
haven't mentioned, and this is kindof important, and I'm surprised you haven't
thought of it. You know what'smissing the hotel room. I don't Keith,
no, his work, his papers, where's his briefcase? I mentioned
everything that was found in the roomthat was not one of them. Oh
Oh shit, there you go.What you'd say about that? Sorry,

(02:02:56):
I'm sleeping on the job. Yeah, because you mentioned how everyone always talks
about how characteristic. Yes, yes, his beat up brown or black m
briefcase which was at the restaurants,right bartender seen it and everything? Yeah,
keep it in his car sometimes whenhe drank. But they searched his
car and they found nothing. Nothinglike that. Well, that's as volumes

(02:03:19):
right there. It's still missing,by the way, it's gone. Really
it's gone. It's connected to theoctopus. Then, I mean, there's
the evidence right there. Yeah.I really wanted to say it to the
very end. I'm at the lastparagraph here, but yeah, well think
his his wallet was left there.Nothing, He's were there too, That's
why they found the car, andlike, everything looks fine in the car,

(02:03:40):
but they didn't find the fucking briefcase. But the briefcase. Wow,
well played, accordion of files.Nothing. I like the way you set
that up. Well played, Thankyou. I want to put that in
there for sure. So that's abig that's one of the big conspiracy hold
lots, like, hey, whatabout the fucking papers? You know?
Anyway, In the meantime, knowthat I am supremely confident that even a

(02:04:03):
veteran skeptic of conspiracies will raise theireyebrows when I'm done with all of this.
The connections are too big to faileasily researchable. What becomes complicated is
discerning what is embellished and what isn'twhat's complicated or too easy to connect.
There is a lot of interesting scrapsof information left on the ground floor for

(02:04:27):
this show that could almost double theword count. With that, keep in
mind that the next show will definea generation of lying, backstabbing, and
killing and all in the name ofmoney, power and disbelief. Join us,
won't you? For the Octopus conspiracy? Cool? Because others this thing

(02:05:46):
will be a hot box. Doyou have a Do you have windows in
that room? Yeah? Yeah,well obviously is sticking out of a window,
but the windows. Oh it's awindow unit. Oh, I'm surprised
I can hear it right that.Yeah, that's why I thought you thought
I meant central area. No,no, yeah, I mean if I
put this thing, yeah, Idon't think I could hear it. Oh

(02:06:11):
yeah, then now I could heara little bit. Even at that point.
It's just very faint. It's cool. I'm surprised. I'm I'm happier
I could keep it on. Oh, I'm doing something from the plast from
the past. So you know,I told you I've been listened to our
previous episodes. One of them wetalked about how well there was a there
was a bit of episodes there ina row where I will come to your
house. This is before COVID obviously, and we record there and you would

(02:06:35):
obviously serve me some drink, andone of them was UV blue and Fanta.
So guess what I got? Noway, mm hmm. That episode
reminded me, so I to restock last week or week before I got
the UV Blue. Yeah, i'mandrinking in here and there. Cool,
I don't have any I don't haveany UV Blue. I have to get

(02:06:58):
some. Yeah, gotta get some. Yeah, that that's a yeah.
We're listening to our episodes has reallyhelped me out here on some stuff.
Cool, like like what I knowsome ideas that you were listening last time?
Oh yeah, that that means that'sI guess that's what I mean.
The UV Blue is probably like aweird example compared to others. But all

(02:07:19):
right, do you want to doI assume both back to back this one
in Patreon? Yeah, what doyou wanna or do you wanna? Okay,
well, do you want to seewhere we are after the main one?
Yeah? Okay, that's because wehave until technically Wednesday, right for
Patreon Tuesday Tuesday, it's right,because we're not do anything on the first

(02:07:46):
of the next month, on theend of this month. Yeah, so
if anything tomorrow, I don't knowwhat you're up to. Uh, just
I mean I'm out how many well, how many pages is this first episode
here? Oh? Thirty four?Shit? Shit? If I what,

(02:08:13):
I don't know if I'll be it'salready eleven almost eleven thirty. I don't
know if I could do because tomorrowis a workday. I do have beats
also, where like you might wantto ask questions and shit or whatever.
But yeah, thirty four And honestlyit might be the shortest one if I
make two more parts. So Ithink I'm gonna break one hundred pages total.
I was saying, what might breakone hundred pages? You have no

(02:08:37):
idea what there is out there?So what's up? Oh that's something I'm
gonna have to mention and I'm gonnahave to work that in there somehow,
that this topic overall might break onehundred page script right and m okay,
like part two again. I meanI haven't just done this thing. I
mean I literally finished this part onelast night, and I think I'm gonna

(02:08:58):
have to like wing the very enda little because I think I just wrote
it. I was like five am. This is five am. But after
six ye, I don't remember anymore. I was like trying getting to go
to sleep, but I can't waittill the market. I'm recording, right,
I have to work, so I'mlike I'm running and I'm just put
his fucking ending whatever ended, andI'm like thinking doing work, like I
should probably figure out how juice yourending there. So all right, let's

(02:09:22):
see, let's see how this goes. All right, waiting for the countdown,
You got the vapors, right,You're good. I went and I
reached over to my mouth to likepress stop because I've been recording with I'm
like, wait, I'm must stopthis. Oh no, I'll rolling right.
I'm like, what the what amI doing? Jesus hold yourself?

(02:09:45):
Are you rust at doing the sO show? Yeah? You know,
one thing I realized with doing this, this particular Octopus show, is that
I'm really better reading. Takes meso long to read you mean read the
script that you write or no,no, no resources, read the sources

(02:10:07):
I see. I see. Also, fascinatingly, I that's the right word.
I never you know, I alwayskind of like I tend to for
all of our previous shows. Ithink almost it's not a one hundred percent,
nearly a hundred percent of all ofour previous shows that I've ever done
research for, I always start withWikipedia and I go from there, you
know, I find whatever they havesourced, and then go from there.

(02:10:28):
And the need to build levels deepas you can. Yeah, this one
opposite. I never even touched Wikipediaonly to find some background informal town,
like just basic info on the ona county and a town. Never even
looked at the Wikipedia. That's howmuch shit. I didn't need it anything.
It's cool. Yeah, that iswild man, didn't even need it.

(02:10:50):
That blew my mind that two daysago when I realized, I'm like,
like, that's true, shit,because you're you're so right. I
mean, usually of the place tostart, Yeah, it really is.
It gets kind of the juices flown. It gives you real good high level
information, and then, like yousaid, you branch out from there and
go deeper and deeper. But tonot have to do that, that's great,

(02:11:11):
m And I even realize you didn'thave to do it. Yeah,
because I started with the books.That's why. Probably is it Okay,
is it okay for me to mention, you know, I'll come up with
something to say. But the octopusmurders, Yeah, that's what it's called.

(02:11:31):
I mean, no, mean,I have a whole intro that intro
said, you know, you know, I'm just talking dramatic about it.
So there's a little flare in thebeginning, not much at the end because
like I said, I wrote itvery fast at the end. But otherwise,
yeah, I really I should tryto hit I had this whole theory
in my head about this whole thoughtprocess in my head of like showing how

(02:11:52):
you know, these people ain't noangels, including Danny Kesseler. He had
problems, So I hope I dida good job of portraying the you know,
he had problems and issues. Itcould still be suicide. It could
also very much not likely. It'slike equal parts both, you know.
Yeah, but I mean I thinkanyone would lean towards most likely conspiracy.
I mean, I can my theoryhonestly on this is that honestly is that

(02:12:16):
he was threatened, convincingly threatened,either in person or through the phone,
to commit suicide to save his family, save his probably his kid, let's
say, and and then someone camein check to make sure it was done,
cleaned the footprint, took the papers, and left one hundred percent.
That's had to have That's what happened. That's very good. That's what I

(02:12:39):
think happened. I think he reallydid commit suicide in the video. Again
you have you have seen the unsolvedmysteries yet, But in the video they
mentioned and the other sources mentioned thistoo, that one of the cuts on
his left fist was so deep thatit cut at tendon. I didn't mention
it, even though it's meant andother sources. One because I forgot,

(02:13:01):
but two it's because I don't thinkI would have mentioned it, or I
would have said it just to dismissit, because it's not set in the
reports and the and the parameters startto support the autopsy they did after the
embombing, which led to nowhere.Because the embombing gets what can clear out
all toxics of anything in there anyway, it fucks up the autopsy. There's
no results. The bombing fucked everythingup. That's why I made him sure.

(02:13:22):
I put it there because the brotherwanted the autopsy right immediately. But
it was embombed already. All theupetance is fucked up. What can you
get out of it except for asurface level shit that and nothing would deliver
the no. No. But itwas common practice for West Virginia to do

(02:13:46):
that with outsider but they were butthey weren't supposed to do that until the
next of kin was notified. Theyskipped that step. It was still a
step they skipped, but it wasstill common practice to do that. Yeah,
very weird. It is weird.Sh

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 144: The Octopus Murders

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Episode 144: The Octopus Murders

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