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March 1, 2025 75 mins
The horrors continue to unfold! Rex Heuermann, known as the "Ogre," is now charged with a seventh murder after investigators linked him to Valerie Mack through a hair belonging to his daughter, Victoria. Detectives uncovered a chilling "planning document" in Heuermann’s digital records—a step-by-step guide to abduction, torture, and disposal that eerily mirrors Mack’s fate. Even more unsettling, strange artwork connected to Victoria raises new questions about the Heuermann family's dark secrets.  Plus, we explore a baffling mystery.  A plane carrying 10 people vanished without a trace over the infamous Alaskan Triangle on February 6, 2025. Was it a tragic accident or something more sinister?  And don’t miss our BREAKING UPDATE on the mysterious drones swarming the New Jersey skies!

Episode starts at [27:20] 



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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to my world, bitch.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Wow, good.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Here.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Welcome to the one hundred and sixty fourth episode of
the Supernatural Occurrent Studies.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Podcast So Tangrically Paranormal.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
And it was Jason Knight, host of the show and
with me as always is Oscar Spector, producer, extraordinary and
podcast co host. Isn't tantrically like sexually?

Speaker 3 (00:55):
It is? Yeah, especially with what we're doing after the
show tonight.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Just stop it. Ask her what has been going on
with you, my friend?

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Nothing much, been doing them driving stuff, a lot of stuff,
driving stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
You know who is driving stuff?

Speaker 3 (01:10):
I'm I'm I'm a food delivery driver, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
As they say, I don't know if we talked about that.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
I'm doing a lot of a lot of traveling around
the Chicago area, going.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Far, anything interesting happening out.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
A lot of rich places. I'll tell you that rich place.
A lot of places that I did not know existed.
There is one neighborhood I went to, don't even ask
me where, somewhere Northfield, I remember, and it was a
gated thing with a security guard, which I've seen in
movies of course, but never actually been to one. And
I had to like get double security and the guy
like I had to give them information like a lot

(01:44):
of times to let me in. And even going in,
it was like a whole neighborhood of houses big and small,
like they were completely guarded right all the way. It
was hard to it was easy to mess too. It
was like surrounded by woods in super darkness. They don't
have a lot of light around there. Wow, I almost
missed it to turn again. It was insane. This is

(02:05):
Chicago and Northfield. I don't know. That's like, wow, ten
miles don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
So you've never been into a dating community.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
No, I mean not like that, not not secured like that.
I see, you know, because a lot of them are
just opened, you know, just squawking and right. But this
almost keep the they do keep the rift rap out.
I mean think that was cool out of the security.
Uh been to Mansions. There is one apartment complex in
Evanston that I went to that looks like a regular
you know, nonchalant building inside, super looking, fancy looking. I

(02:33):
needed a code for the elevator, specifically for the floor
that I was delivering the thing, and I was like,
I've never seen that before. Usually it's like a hotel
that's like a CIA thing. Hotels like yeah, yeah, I've
been too fancy about that. Been to the Ritz in
downtown Nice and their lobbies on the fourteenth floor for
some reason.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, that's remember something about that.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
I had to go there after getting like waved by
the camera, which is on the first floor of the
ground floor. Nothing nobody there, nobody there at all. I
had to go up to the fourteenth floor, and even
then I had to wait for someone that can go
up myself to the actual It's crazy a not crazy
things like that.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
How about like, you know, I've seen adult films with
food delivery drivers come to the door deliver a pizza.
Next thing, you know, does this happen while you're out there?

Speaker 3 (03:20):
I'm gonna tell you might now to you if it
ever happens to me, And I'll text you in real time.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Okay, that's that's where my mind goes.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah. No, but what I'll text you in real time
is not what you expect. I won't be a screenshot.
It'll be me giving you my GPS coordinates. And kids
I get kidnapped or murdered or my kid and it
gets stolen and.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
We have stories about that too. Almost Gus murdered out.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
That's my bigger worry if that kind of thing even
remotely happens, starts happening, because I'm like, I'm trust this, Like,
why would I trust this to go to be true?
It's a reason why people say that.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, I would probably be a little a little reluctant
as well.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
And some people, man, some people are in states of
undressed when they open the door.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Oh my god, dude, I bundle up. I put my
little beanie on my hat. I got both men and
women put my hoodie on, saying like anybody really yeah,
not like on dress like they're naked, no, but like
they're really and it's like they just got up too,
you know.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
It's like they're under less jammies or less towel once
you know what.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, people got balls, man, not me. I put on
kevlar when I open the door. Yeah, keV, I yelled
to the door. Just leave it on the step. I
don't want to see nobody.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
That's just expensive man. Kevlar.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh, I'm sure that's what I opened the door in.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
I don't believe it. But that's it about you.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
You know, not much We've been going on, just working,
just working. It was kind of a been a boring
couple of weeks. I do have a couple of stories though,
a little updates.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yes, yes, we do.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Well one this first little story, it's not an update.
It's just something kind of cool that happened in the
Chicago Land area. Oh yes, this happened on January twenty eighth. Okay,
towards the western suburbs of Chicago, like Rodsworth, Illinois. It's
kind of where this report's coming from, Yorkville.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
I am not from Illinois.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, it's it's western suburbs. But at night on this
on the twenty eighth, January twenty twenty five, of course, Uh,
these fireballs started were streaking across the sky over western
suburban Chicago, and it wasn't meteors that meteors. They already said,
this is not.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Meters, most likely some sort of debris.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
That's what they're thinking is space debris. Nor Ed hasn't
come out and made any comments about.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
It, which is fairly common. I mean, there's a lot
of junk that we put in our orbit exactly, and
they do constantly fall, whether or not they always make
they don't always make streaks like this in the sky.
That's the thing. That's what's different maybe with this one,
and it's not that big long streaks long. It was
kind of big chunks, maybe bigger than usual.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
You know, it looked like when the was the Transformers
when they were coming down the Decepticons, Right, that's kind
of what it looked like, right.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yea, it's Michael Bay and real life are basically the
same thing.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, and it's it probably like you're saying, is space junk.
But that kind of brings up the whole conversation of
what the fuck are we doing to our orbit up there? Like,
I mean, it's dangerous now if there was a passenger
plane in the path of those things.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Oh yeah, okay, that's what you're worried about.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Destruction. Yeah, yeah, this stuff is going to eventually start
falling out of the sky.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Well, I mean it has been since the sixties, right,
since we've been putting stuff up there. Yeah, it's been falling.
I mean a lot of things get once they once
their experiment is done, they don't bring it down. Well,
it's gonna cost way too much to bring it down there,
just a wait for it to get knocked a little
off course enough to bounce onto our armisphere right or
bounce away right. Sometimes it bounces away, I guess sometimes

(06:49):
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how.
I'm not good with the physics. But it makes sense
that that's what it could be. Whether or not it's
unorthodox that it's so large, which maybe and that's weird,
or whether or not. I mean, I would like a
confirmation from like no Rieta Nassa or something to tell
us like, hey, it's nothing that bizarre. It's bigger than usual.

(07:11):
It looks weird, right, and what else coun it be?

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Right?

Speaker 3 (07:15):
It can't be something?

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Who knows?

Speaker 3 (07:19):
How can they look like I mean, looking like that,
I don't know. It does seem like it was falling.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, it looked like it was. I think it's space junk. Yeah,
it's it's now. We're recording this on February seventh. So
to date, Nora ed, no one has come out and
really said what that was. But meteorologists, like local meteorologists,
are saying that's got to be space debris. But and
there's just statistics about how much junk is up there orbiting.
I don't have those numbers on me right now, or

(07:44):
those stats. But we're just you know, we're destroying the Earth. Now,
we're destroying I.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Mean the premise of that movie Gravity right, was like
that they were like in just above near orbit of
our Earth, and the thing that caused all the crashes
and that hit the space station or whatever. It's all
like the satellites orbiting, they're constantly openating Earth, like got
this lodge and started hitting and all the circling each other,

(08:12):
all the debris.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, that's right, I remember seeing that.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
I'm not I'm not saying that's real. I'm just saying
that sounds right to me.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Well, god, I don't know. There's we can't litter space, right,
that's impossible. Right, we're doing it, but we're not seeing
the debris. It's litter coming streaking across.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Oh no, it's coming down here. That's not good. I'm
just saying that we can't actually litter space, like I'm
fine with throwing anything into space. Oh god, it's humongous,
it's unfathomably huge.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
We got to get it out that far, right, like,
we have to get it.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
You read, to get it far enough space. No, No,
you're right.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
So that that's pretty interesting, and so I don't know.
I don't know. It's just endangering craft that fly up there,
and just another reason for me not to fly. I
guess dunk.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, all you saw was a potential way to get killed.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
So what's going on in the skies lately? Things aren't
staying up there?

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah? Right, sitting at DC.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Oh my god, case in point something I read about
just today over Alaska this time, remember we did our
Alaska Triangle episodes episodes one, thirty one, thirty one vaguely yes,
great episodes. So on Thursday, February sixth, so yesterday, twenty
twenty five, of course, around three sixteen pm, a bearing

(09:31):
Air Sesna twenty eight two eight B Grand Caravan ex
it's a prop plane when yeah, vanished as it flew
over the Norton Sound while en route from Unicalte, Alaska
to Nome. And we're talking prime Alaska Triangle territory here,

(09:55):
and it was carrying nine passengers in a pilot, so
ten people. This plane vanished. It's the FBI is involved.
They're trying to triangulate things when all these satellite stuff
trying to find this plane. They haven't found it yet,
and they've done water search and land search as well,
so as of right now, for all intents and purposes,
this fucking thing disappeared.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Hi, y'all, Oscar here with an interruption on our opening
to tell you that just days after the show was recorded,
we found out the tooth of what happened in this accident,
this Alaskan accident. We found out that the mystery hasn't solved.
That the update is that the plane was found and
everybody is dead. So before we're back to the show,

(10:40):
I just enjoy the fact they were completely wrong. Either way,
enjoy the show.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Ten people on board.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
It's it's like the lost plane.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
The lost plane, oh from the show, Oh, from the show? Yeah,
kind of yeah, or I mean just exactly what we
were talking about in our Alaska Triangle episodes, right, how
these things go? These planes go disappearing in mass over
the Alaska Triangle. Uh Unicalate, Alaska where this thing was
coming from taking off from. If you remember from those

(11:08):
Triangle episodes, Unicalte is somewhere near Unkalite is where the
black pyramid is supposed to be. Okay, it's coming back
underground pyramid.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Coming back to me. I remember that.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, And this thing they say lets off immense energy
it's its own sort of energy source, this mysterious thing.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
And because maybe you do have it. Do you remember
the episode number.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Well, it was either one thirty or one thirty one,
hopefully we talked about the Black Pyramid. I just don't
read the show notes.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
No, I'm just saying so people can say, hey, a
new incident is something we talked about before episode one
thirty ish?

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, it was one thirty or one thirty one. I
just both. You know, in one we covered like disappearing planes,
disappearing people, maybe something else. In the next one we
covered like a serial killer, thunderbirds and stuff. So I
separate the little the little Inukins, remember the Little Eukins,

(12:06):
a little little troll people that run around Alaska and people.
All right, So yeah, I broke it into those two
episodes into different topics. So you just got to read
the show notes and it'll tell you where.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
The wonder it did. That season of two Detective from
last year was in that same path. Oh you know what,
I don't know, in the same area.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I forgot what town they were in in that in
that that series, but so so unicleat is somewhere around
there is supposed to be where the black pyramid is
that releases this immense immense energy, possibly curates vortices with
these energies, and planes get.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Lost possibly right, and they sucked up the telemetrics of
the plane.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Right. And then Gnome. That's n O M Nome Alaska.
I mean that that's like nowhere land. Man, there's nothing there,
like population six hundred something. But what it's known for
is where that I did arod ends that I did
ends in nom Alaska.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Okay, So, but.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
The TV show to movie that TV show, Mila djo
Jo Jovovich.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Aliens, The Third Fourth Kind.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
The Fourth Kind. First of all, love the movie.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
I haven't seen it in a while, but I remember
liking it.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Very scary. It's a fucking scary movie.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Well, aliens freak you.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Out, and there's some freaky shit in that movie.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
You put a spider in your movie, folks, Jay will
we freaked out?

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, Aliens and spiders. Forget it, Aliens and
spiders on an airplane. But the other thing with Gnome
is that historically, record numbers of record numbers of people
have disappeared from this town, which is why they made
the Fourth Kind. They put an alien spin so Now
these people weren't just wandering off into the wilderness and

(13:48):
dying alien. So there is this real life mystery. I
remember that movie of the Gnome Disappearance really.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Tried hard to babe, like say that illustrate how much
this is based on two events kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
In the movie.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
In the movie, Yeah, they were trying harder than most
movies do. I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah. So it's just interesting that this plane was lost
unicually Black Triangle.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
I mean, seems right to me. Might be another another
another incident and another chapter.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Well we got to watch and see this find this plane.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
But also at the same time, things like this happen anyway, right, people,
we see a lot of stories of people just.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Get especially this time of year and fucking Alaska, it's
treacherous to fly. So interesting listeners, keep your eyes open
for this, uh this plane that went missing, this this
bearing cessna ten people. Our thoughts are with their family,
that's for sure.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Terrifying. Yes, So what else do we have? Drone update?

Speaker 3 (14:53):
There's an update?

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Drone update is the update date?

Speaker 3 (14:56):
I think I know what the update is is the
update the fact that no one is paying attention to
them anymore. It's just all the chatter is stopped overnight.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's like literally someone flipped a switch. For a month,
they were everywhere. It was an invasion, over sensitive military installations,
over populated cities, scaring people, chasing navy ships, and then
it was like never even happened.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Do you think this is a phenomenon that's only because
of our like a current day phenomena. You think this
only could happen in our current day or is this
something that's always been true for people like that? You
can have an incident so bizarre and widespread, you know,
attention getting worldwide attention getting like this, and then nothing.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
I don't think, dude, I can't think of is.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
This common for human nature or is it a product
of like our Internet age or something like that.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
I kind of think it's a product of media, our
current media and the Internet age, because they feed each other.
They're kind of part of the same machine. Opinion on
the part of the same machine. And I personally think
someone came in and said, you do not talk about
this anymore, and that was it. That was it pulled
from all the news stations. If the news not feeding it,

(16:10):
social media is not talking about it, it's gone.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah, I'm tending to think you're right.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
So here's the update. Now, this is from This is
a quote from a White House press briefing that was
held on Tuesday, January twenty eighth, twenty twenty five, the
same Tuesday that the same time the stuff was streaking
across checking on Western Chicago. Yeah weird. So yeah, this
is from. This is an official word from a press press

(16:38):
briefing from Tuesday, January twenty eight, twenty twenty five, given
by the new White House Press Secretary Carolyn leave It.
This is a quote. We do have news directly from
the President of the United States that was just shared
with me in the Oval Office from President Trump directly.

(16:59):
An update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study,
the drones that were flying over New Jersey and large
numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for
research and various other reasons. Many of these drones were
also hobbyists, recreational and private individuals that enjoy flying drones,

(17:21):
and in time it got worse due to curiosity. This
was not the enemy. A statement from the President of
the United States. End quote. Now, hold on, I got
a problem.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
I got a few problems, so just a few.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Weeks ago, yeah, month whatever. At this point, the FAA
had no fucking idea what these things were.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Right, that was the word that was an official They
said one percent mentioned the locals down there, like the authorities,
police and stuff, they didn't know either. Yes, and they
have to notify them if they're flying shit up there, exactly.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
So it was made very clear in numerous countless press
conferences and news articles and everywhere on social media that
the FAA was involved in the investigation into the drone sidings,
as was the FBI, state and local authorities, and none
of them had a clue what was happening. That was
the official word, right, So the FAA didn't have to

(18:15):
your point, they didn't have to tell local officials or
commanders at military bases the heads of other sensitive areas
what they were doing. The FAA, come on, it's total bullshit.
What a shitty official answer to the drone siding.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
So I can only think of one reason, But do
you have an idea as to why they would say
this now?

Speaker 1 (18:35):
No? No, Well to shut everyone up, to put an
official stamp.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
End in it, right, So, I mean, yeah, the stand
thing I can see that.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
No we're talking about it because here's what it was.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
My main thing. Well, I can't it can't be just that,
right I do. I can't be to that fact. The
period and a sentence where they must have like squeezed
news and affiliates to stop talking about it like that
goes hand in hand and with this statement. Yeah, you
can't just have the statement and expect people to stop
talking about it. But combinationally with the with telling people

(19:08):
to stop stop doing it, then that maybe works. I
was gonna say, is that maybe they're doing it so
they can discourage idiots maybe who would believe them to
shooting down or trying to shoot down drones, especially in
the New Jersey area, you know, kind of thing, kind
of like stomp out some sort of violent altercations, even

(19:28):
if they don't want to admit what's going on, because yeah,
it doesn't make sense. It's a bullshit answer.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
So bullshit response complete, bullshit response complete. There's still no
explanation as to who was flying these things, what they
were doing, what they were looking for, were they taking off,
where they're taking off or landing we're from, why they
seem to be chasing navy ships? Nothing all we get
from Trump is that the drones were authorized to be
flown by the FAA for research and other various reasons.

(19:57):
Get that vague non answer out of here.

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yes, pretty bad.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
And so that's it. I mean, that's no mention on
the drones that were flying in other states.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Think a declassified uh you know Senator hell briefly briefing
about this in five years fifty years.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, probably like Kennedy.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Also, yeah, the Kennedy thing.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Not yet. They didn't. They didn't release any They.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Mentioned something about that, right, that's something that you signed.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Trump is supposed to release the final documents on the
Kennedy assassination.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah, we don't.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Know anything next month, I think.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Okay, are we gonna get on that.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, I'll read it for sure. So that's where we are.
It makes me angry. I'm angry about this drone thing.
Like you know, Trump is always gung ho. I mean,
I'll tell you everything. I'm not gonna hi you.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
He's like, should never trust anything.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
But then just to give that such non answer, fucking bullshit.
It makes me mad, bullshitter.

Speaker 3 (20:46):
What about I never trust anything?

Speaker 1 (20:47):
What about the other drones in the other states? She
just quote the quote from Trump that Carolyn talked about
was over Jersey, what about over all the other states
across the country? No mention of those Yeah, I'm angry.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Oh yeah, well we might get answers from something that
happened a long time ago, but anything reason, I'm not surprised.
I guess of the non answer, And honestly, it doesn't
have to be chumpy. There could be. I think anybody
in that position wouldn't admit to this kind of thing,
no matter what. So like, no matter why we get
the same non answer, it would just be a different

(21:22):
reason why every saying it in this case anyway. Yeah, yeah, No,
it's a lot of things madden me every day. This
is not high on the list, but it's it's annoying,
it's very frustrating.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
I wish we could have come to the listeners with
a real answer, but.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Oh no, no, no, no, this is a real life It's
like a I mean, there are real puzzle box mysterets
in the world, but real life, unfortunately, means that we
never get those actual answers. Yeah, there is no finale
that'll give us an answer.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
All right, Well, so that's it there. We got to
keep this moving I'm angry. I want to drink. Yes, please,
let's yeah, whiskey do you want to do this? Whiskey first, Oh,
whiskey first, okay, and whiskey first. Okay.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
I didn't know that. I didn't know what you were
doing with that. It's good.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
So we have a new bottle of whiskey that we're
gonna open today. This is chicken.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Cock, very cocky, chicken chicken cock. What did the chicken
cock gt went across the road? What bourbon? I didn't
have a joke. Oooh yeah, I couldn't think I won
in the moment.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
So chicken cock. Bro I picked this up in Kentucky
and I liked it. It's ninety proof, so this isn't
going to burn you too bad. Uh. This is a
brand that goes back all the way to eighteen fifty six. Yeah,
eighteen fifty six for chicken cock. You were born that year, right,
and and it was it was really big during prohibition.

(22:46):
It lasted through prohibition, and it was big in the
bars during prohibition, like the Cotton Club underground shit. It
was chicken cock, but it was being smuggled in in
these ten ends. So they called it to tin can
whiskey back then, but it was chicken cock. You know.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Finding the reasons why people name their their brands and
bottles certain things, it's always fascinating and weird, the same
way finding out why a band will call themselves whatever
they're called. Like, it's such a weird. What do you
know why it's called chicken cock? I don't, Okay, I
beout you if you look it up and see it's

(23:24):
it's fucking weird.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's a it's a really cool bottle. It's it's almost
got like it feels like scales on the bottle the way.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
It's it does like honeycomb.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Honeycomb, thank you good? Uh so, Yeah, it's it's just
an old iconic brand. I haven't tried this yet. It's
from a kind of the heart of Bourbon country. It's
it's Paris, Paris, Kentucky where this is from where it originated?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
And is there honey in it? Like you okay? Because no,
I maybe think that because of that pattern.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Here we go. I just I can't. I can't get
over it. I love the sound, love everything about it.
I'll give you some here. Like I said, it's ninety proofs,
so it's not gonna kill you so we could. We'll
still be able to drive tonight. But before you do it,
we're gonna try something different. Here, me cap this back up.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
No, you're gonna try something different.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
So for Christmas, my lovely wife and me put this
back up on my show. Here, she got me what's
called a bourbon nosing kit. Have you talked about this
on the show yet?

Speaker 3 (24:34):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
So what this is. It's supposed to help you develop
your bourbon palate, your whiskey palate, right, and it is
let me think, eighteen canisters of different items, different spices,
flavors that you would find in whiskey and bourbon, right, like, so,

(24:55):
brown sugar, chocolate, honey, black pepper, cinnamon, allspice, arsenic tobacco.
You know over here that I want you to try oak, cry,
vanilla corn. And what you do is you smell these
canisters and this is the real the real product is
in these canisters. So there's real vanilla bean, there's real corn,
real shards of oak, you know, rye. So you nose these,

(25:19):
you smell them, and then you taste your whiskey and
try to pick out the different flavors. Right, So let's
try that once you try this vanilla, So open that up.
Get that that that schnazy gears right down in there.
Get a big whiff. Oh yeah, Now take your whiskey

(25:40):
and try the whiskey. I'm gonna do the corn. Does
the vanilla help you? Does smelling the vanilla help you
pick out vanilla flavors notes in the whiskey?

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Maybe a little?

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Oh? I do taste vanilla in mine corn? Who I'm
smelling the corn and I take a sip. Definitely that
does help enhance the flavor of the whiskey, because a
lot of your taste is smell right, let me try them.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
No, yeah, it is, You're right, And.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
There's the vanilla. Yeah, definitely sweetness in there. I am
picking up oak without even having to smell the oak.
It's nice.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Yeah, the vanilla was more prominent for sure than no,
not that one.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Have you tried the corn the rye?

Speaker 2 (26:46):
No?

Speaker 1 (26:46):
I haven't. Oh the rye? Yeah, I haven't tried the rye.
Let me see knows the rye.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Surprised corn even has a smell.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Then go right to the wall. It does? It does?
I could pick out the rye after smelling it. That's
pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
Yeah, it's a nifty gift.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
I like this.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Yeah, it's like an invention that I never ever ever
would have ever imagined I thought of myself.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
And they're not. It's not cheap. It's not cheap. So right, okay,
Well it's a long intro. We have updates on the
Long Island serial Killer, right, some new things are going
on there. So that's what this episode episode is going
to be about, Oscar. Let's take a quick break and
finish this chicken cock. Let's do it well, listeners, welcome

(28:02):
back to the show. Well, the lights are turned down low,
the ceremonial candle is lit, and the chicken cock is flowing.
Let's start this show. Okay, So, Oscar, we have updates
on the Long Island serial Killer.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yeah that uh Rex something rex hureman.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
I think this is our fourth episode on this fucking guy,
and I don't think it's going to end anytime soon.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
We did too, what's the third one?

Speaker 1 (28:33):
There was an update?

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Oh we did another update?

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Uh huh, I remember that. Now this is another another update.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Right, Okay, Okay, I guess I forgot about the plane updates.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, yep. So on December seventeenth, twenty twenty four, a
superseding bail application revealed that Rex Hureman the ogre, has
now been charged with a seventh count of murder Okay,
this time in connection with the death of Valerie mack Now.

(29:04):
The newly released court documents indicate that forensic evidence links
Heureman directly to max murder. A pivotal piece of evidence,
a strand of hair recovered near Max's dismembered wrist, was
identified through mitochondrial and nuclear DNA testing as likely belonging

(29:25):
to Hureerman's daughter Victoria, a piece of hair she shed
when she was just three years old, establishing a chilling
connection between the crime scene and human's immediate family. Further
incriminating evidence includes a document discovered on human's laptop, ominously

(29:47):
titled HK Planning Document. We covered this this find this
document in horrifying detail in our last Long Island Update
the Board Circular Update episode. This file, if you remember,
outlines detailed methods of abduction, dismemberment, and body disposal with

(30:09):
disturbingly specific parallels to Valerie max murder. References within the
document point to known dump sites such as Mill Road,
where Max's remains were found. Digital forensics also revealed that
Human frequently visited websites related to Gilgo Beach investigations shortly

(30:30):
before Max's identity was made public in twenty twenty. So
he's looking up his crimes, he's relishing and.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Religious either right, either for that or to like check
up on the progress on. You know, he must be
also a little worried about getting caught right before he
gets caught.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Well, now, something kind of strange happened at Human's arraignment
for the murder of Valerie mac in court. When the
judge asked if he was guilty of the crime for
which he was being accused, people in the court room
got to hear rex Huerman speak for the very first time.
In response to the judge's question, rex Hureman proclaimed his innocence, stating,

(31:11):
your honor, I'm not guilty of any of these charges.
And this stunned many in the courtroom because his voice
was described as nasally and high pitched, and you know
you're on here, I'm not guilty of any of these charges.
Kind of like that, nosly high pitched, which from someone
as imposing and big as the ogre Heureman.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
So for people chortal or laugh or anything.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
I don't think so. I think there are more stunned. Okay,
And his voice carried this notable sense of desperation, your honor.
I didn't do any of this, you know, like, what
the fuck? This isn't me? So, but no one knows
why Rex chose this moment to finally speak about his innocence.
Not even his lawyers knew he was going to do it.

(31:55):
It just really shocked people to hear his voice and
to hear him plead, and that the voice didn't match
the frame.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
You know, but we saw no, wait, wait, hold on,
hold on. We put a clip on the episode of
him talking.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
In court, like this is the first time people heard
his voice.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
No, no, I know, but it wasn't like this in
that video.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
I'm trying to remember. I can't.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
It wasn't Groff mcgroth either. No, but like, it wasn't like,
you know, I'm a wrestler, does bartending or whatever, but
it was it, But it was It wasn't nasally or
squeaky at all. Is he playing it up?

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Oh? I wonder Obviously there are.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Years between the video and now, and I don't know
what President's doing to him. I hope it does worse
to him. But like, you know, I'm just saying it
wasn't I wouldn't have described it the way people are
describing his court thing. Yeah, No, that's yeah, that's a
little something.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Is he playing it up? Yeah, like trying to sound
innocent or sound defense.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
I mean also in another sense, like if it's that's
truly how he sounds like and and that's cool, I guess,
But if that's truly him, maybe that can go into
the psychology of why he's such a bastard, you know,
like whatevers in securities are that could be a lot
of the stem from Ed.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Right, Oh maybe you know maybe, jeez, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I'm just I mean, that's that's like not even backseat psychology.
That's like trunk psychology. But I'm throwing it up there.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Hey, cheers to that.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
I'll take it, I think.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
And now we know more about Valerie max Life now
as well. So you know, I always like to try
and highlight who these women were as people rather than victims.
And you know, unfortunately, Valerie's story is a story we've
heard countless times in the Long Island serial killer case.
Max Life, like many of the Long Island serial killers

(33:47):
known victims was marked by hardship. You know, she was
born Valerie Lynn Fulton on June second, nineteen seventy six,
in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and she faced early adverse
Conflicting reports suggest either both her parents died or she
was forcibly removed from her home by Child Protective Services,

(34:09):
leading to replacement in the foster system. And we know
this is not a good place to be, probably in
Atlantic City, New Jersey, I'm assuming in seventy six not
a good place to be in their foster system.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
I mean, the best circumstances is still fucked up.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
You know.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
It seems like.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
She was adopted out, but then her first adoptive parents
they died, and then she was adopted by the MAX.
They tried to provide her with stability, but despite their efforts,
Valerie struggled with the lasting impacts of her difficult upbringing
that public system that she was put in. She was
described by an adopted sister as great, smart, sweet, and troubled.

(34:52):
Valerie became a mother to a son named Benjamin while
she was just a senior in high school, and it
must have been financial strain being a young mother like that.
She turned to sex work in Philadelphia and in Atlantic City,
a path that quickly led to drug addiction and several arrests.

(35:12):
Valerie often worked under the alias Melissa Taylor. She was
a street walker, meaning she was coming constantly face to
face with the Johns, which is incredibly dangerous. She wasn't
using the Internet like a lot of the gilg for were.
She was out there on the streets face to face.
She was last seen in June two thousand, shortly after

(35:34):
a final arrest, and months later, on November nineteenth, two thousand,
her dismembered torso, severed hands, and decapitated head were discovered
wrapped in plastic bags and duct tape in the woods
off of Mill Road, going back to the planning document
in Manerville, New York. Eleven years later, in April twenty eleven,

(35:57):
her skull, hands and right foot were found near Gilgo Beach,
less than one and a half miles from where Jessica
Taylor's remains were discovered. Now, Jessica Taylor, another victim in
this grim story, shares an eerie connection with Valerie Mack. Together,
they're referred they're referred to as the Manorville Two, The

(36:19):
Manorville Too now Jessica she was if you remember. She
was a twenty year old sex worker from Washington, d C.
Who disappeared from New York City on July twenty first,
two thousand and three. Her naked torso and severed arms
severed below the elbows were found partially decomposed in a
plastic sheet in Manerville's Pine Barrens near Halsey Manor Road,

(36:43):
just a half mile from Valerie Mack's earlier discovered remains.
Jessica's head and hands were missing, and a tattoo reading
Remy's Angel had been crudely mutilated, like the kind of
hinder identification. Talked about this in the other episodes. I'm
just kind of trying to remind you here now. In

(37:04):
April twenty eleven, Jessica's skull, hands, and forearm were found
along Ocean Parkway near Gilgo Beach, again less than one
and a half miles from where Valerie max remains were
found that same month. Both victims exhibited signs of post
mortem dismemberment using similar cutting tools, and forensic analysis linked

(37:24):
plastic bags used to contain the remains, so the same
type of bags were used to carry both women's remains.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, sounds like er tite, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Pretty much. Yeah. And then forensic evidence tied a male
hair found beneath Jessica's body to Rex Heremen through DNA analysis.
You can see how this is all starting to come together.
They're all being linked together and then being linked back
to either Rex or to his family.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
So when you said it's not ending, yeas still ongoings.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Still ongoing. Now, it's said that Valerie Mac had a
tattoo of her son's name on her right foot or ankle,
which was missing when her leg was found ampy time
at mid Calf. Investigators believe this was another attempt by
the killer to obstruct identification, a tactic consistent with notes
found in Huerman's HK planning document that specifically references the

(38:14):
removal of identifying marks such as tattoos. So it happened
to Valerie Mac, and it happened to Jessica Taylor, and
it also coincides with what he put in this planning document. Now,
in Valerie Mac's foot was eventually discovered, it was too
decomposed to reveal any tattoos. But again it's just another
similarity to Jessica Taylor. This missing tattoo or the attempt

(38:38):
to get rid of a tattoo. And I also think
it's weird how Valerie Mac used when she was walking
the streets she used the alias Melissa Taylor, only to
have her disappearance and murders so closely tied to Jessica
Taylor can spooky a little weird? Is it just me? No?

Speaker 3 (38:58):
I mean the alia thing is very common, I amagine
there for a lot of sex workers, sure in general.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
But the choosing last name, Yeah, I know you're right.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
I mean, no, you're right. It is coincidence. It's weird
little but also I guess sty'll see it though, Yeah,
you can see it.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
The world's a strange placement. Now, the addition of Valerie
Max's murder has significantly strengthened the case against human so
to recap to date, Hueman is accused of murdering the
Gilgo four that's Melissa Barthelemy Megan Waterman, Amber Costello and
Maureen Brainerd Barnes. He's accused of murdering the Manorville two,

(39:38):
Valerie Mac and Jessica Taylor. And he's accused of killing
Sandra Cristilla, whose body was found in north Sea, Southampton,
New York in nineteen ninety three by some hunters, a
couple of hunters. A male hare found on a shirt
near Castilla's body was linked to human their dnaalysis with
the statistical certainty fucker beyond coincidence. Right. Valerie Mack has

(40:03):
now been linked to Jessica Taylor. Both Valerie and Jessica
have been connected to the gilgo for and Sandra Cristilla
through DNA evidence, phone records, and that chilling HK planning
document right and more. So again you can see how
this case is just growing and growing. Not to mention,
investigators are still sifting through those three hundred and fifty

(40:25):
plus electronic devices, so who knows what they'll uncover next.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Keep you updated on them, and they're probably still uncovering it,
but releasing it is another matter.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
So waiting for building the case before they could bring
in another chargees like we did with Valerie mac.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
Right, and then once they charge is when it becomes public.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, yep. So that's kind of the updates on Rex
Sierman and the Long Island serial killer. So the suspected
Long Island serial killer. Now, I've been I kind of
have some thoughts that I just kind of jotted down.
I want to see what you think, and then I
have kind of a a mind blower at the very end. Right,
So these are just kind of general thoughts and some

(41:04):
little tidbits here and there that I've picked up since
the last time we've talked about this. So Rex Yeoman
was an architect right running around New York City, familiar
with all these ancient building codes and things, and he
knew which buildings were empty, which foundations were being poured,
when walls were going up or coming down. Empty buildings

(41:28):
make ideal places to kill or hide. Right, if a
foundation was scheduled to be poured this next day, could
he dig a hole and then bury a body the
night before, okay, sealing his his secrets and concrete forever.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
I would say that's a good idea, if we hadn't
already been burying people and go go right or other.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
It could be another location. I mean, he was up
in Manorville apparently in the woods.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Why not all of them? Or is there just not
enough right, there's like too many bots to cover the like,
it's not enough buildings to hide these people.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
And maybe maybe he almost got caught and got scared.
Who knows. I'm not saying this is what happened, but
think about there could be bodies all over New York City.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
I mean in general, that's the thing that happens. Right,
And you think of when the highways were being built.
I remember what stretches or where exactly. I remember hearing
this story. It sounds real. I don't know if it's real.
Where workers would, you know, sometimes die and fall into
the to the well.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
They say when like the Hoover Dam was being built.
That happened bridges way back in the early nineteen hundred.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, So, like the point is that little giant concrete
structures that hold. If he was in place, there's bodies
in there.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Man, just keep porn. If they fall in, just keep porn.
You don't stop progress.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Yeah, what are you gonna do?

Speaker 1 (42:49):
Fucked up? Yeah, Now, this planning document, it revealed that
Rex took it almost like he took pleasure in preparing
for murder him. The planning stage could have been half
the thrill. The act of killing could have just maybe
been a small part of his overall satisfaction.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Right it's play.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Yes, Oh good, I like that. Yeah, his gratification could
have came from the process, fantasizing, strategizing how to get
away with it, and even maybe even shopping for the
tools he needed. That's his foreplay.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
It's kind of gross, maybe, no, I mean the things
I think about it, it's human nature. It's just that
how he has as personified as what's gross?

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, we discussed in one of our last episodes. I
forgot which one, but that Rex really you know, he
pulled these horrible internet searches right, just disgusting pornography he
was looking for, including children. But what happens when a
man is fucked up as Rex apparently is supposedly is

(43:50):
realizes that the pornies he craves doesn't exist, or worse,
that simply viewing the images and videos online isn't enough? Right?
Does he take the next horrifying step and created himself?
Will authorities uncover photos and videos on those three hundred
and fifty plus electronic devices, capturing racks acting out his

(44:13):
darkest fantasies on his victims. Can you imagine what that
looks like? God help whoever stumbles onto that shit show? Yeah,
so this was up. I heard this was pretty interesting.
That planning document apparently included a note section referencing specific
page numbers from a book called Bind Hunter Mind or

(44:36):
Bind Mind Hunter Mind, which was published in nineteen ninety
five by John Douglas and Mark Ohlshaker. Now, Douglas is
recognized as the FBI's first criminal profiler, and he developed
the criminal personality profiling technique after he interviewed over a
thousand serial killers. Right the show exactly his work heavily

(44:59):
influenced the Netflix series Minehunter, with the character of special
Agent holden Ford being based on this author. Right Now,
the pages Human cited contained fucked up concepts, including sex substitution,
which involves penetrating the body with foreign objects, and the

(45:19):
idea that mutilation equals disorganized and the mutilation equals disorganized Now. Strangely,
investigators didn't find a copy of Mind Hunter among the
books recovered from his properties, whether it was his disgusting
home or his office his storage sheds, they didn't find it.

(45:41):
But online sleuths are the ones that figured out that
the quotes and page numbers in his planning document precisely
matched content from Minehunter book. So could a hidden copies
still be buried somewhere within the horde The clutter of
Human's Massapeko Park home.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Right, they had some floorboard or something.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Did Mindhunter influence his alleged crimes? Was it a blueprint
for his methods?

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Either say maybe he's more like that or more of
a way to understand, like know thy enemy kind of
say you know kind of thing where like if you
know the profiler that's going to be profiling you, kind
of helps you give you a leg up maybe as
to perfecting your process to keep it stealthy, keep it,
keep it in a sense.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
K And it worked because I may worked for a
long time. It was decades for decades. Yeah, act there
for a long time. Think about the poor women in
this story and the unidentified What did they see in
their final moments? If Rex is the Long Island serial killer,
his face, that fucking mug was the last image imprinted

(46:44):
on their minds, That connection between predator and victim. So
it's intimate, perhaps more so than any other relationship Rex
had to his family, his friends, co workers. He's the
man he chose to present a carefully crafted facade, right,
But the women, his victims, they saw the real wrecks,

(47:06):
stripped of pretense, devoid of humanity, consumed by darkness, evil,
and lust. In those last moments, they alone witnessed his
true monster self something else no one ever did. The
mask comes off. That's what they saw as their last
I don't know. That's fucking it's gross, it's terrifying. Nothing

(47:32):
about him is attractive. You can't look at anything on
his face and be like, yeah, that's attractive.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Yeah, I mean his face I think is made for radio.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah, yeah, right, or podcasting. Now, Human's lawyer Michael Brown,
he is fully convinced that former and he said one
hundred percent convinced that the former Suffolk County Police Chief
James Burke. Remember this jerk off.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
I remember the jerkoff. Yes, he was a good suspect that.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
He was involved in these crimes. According to Human's lawyer,
certainty Burke was involved in these crimes. Brown points to
blatant roadblocks Burke created during the investigation. Go back and
listen to the other episode to hear about these roadblocks.
Those roadblocks, he says, are strong evidence that others may

(48:17):
have been involved in these crimes. This raises the possibility
that Hueman could avoid conviction if prosecutors can't definitively prove
beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's responsible for
all the victims. Any skilled defense attorney could argue that,
due to police obstruction and mishandling, the involvement of others

(48:38):
can't be ruled out, creating enough reason reasonable doubt for
human to walk free. Imagine that day, Because you know,
what has to be jury of twelve reasonable they all
have to agree beyond a reasonable doubt he's guilty.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Make sure he's guilty of one. I mean, you know
you need one, I guess, but it would be nice
to get the full credit. Yeah, well, just for history too.
You know, we gonna understand, like what happened to these women.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Absolutely, you know, for their for their memory, for their family. Right.
But imagine if he could walk because of something burke
did you know?

Speaker 3 (49:23):
That's No, that's not good. That's terrible that I would.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Be ten years ago when the investigate shared something like that.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
What's the point of all this scientific you know, getting
I'm gett annoyed.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
It's making me want to keep drinking. I'm smelling my
yeah vanilla and taking a sip of my whiskey as
I'm going through this.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
You know you can't take that with you to the bar.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
I know, I'll bring I'll bring my little nosing kid
to the bar, right like, look at this dork, fucking
nerd now. In June twenty twenty four, the Pasonic River
Sportsman Club in Manerville, Long Island, provided key evidence in
the Long Island serial killer murder investigation. Records and photos

(50:03):
place Rex Hureman near the areas where victim's remains were
found in Manorville. Rex attended a shooting event on July twentieth,
two thousand and three, a day before Jessica Taylor disappeared.
Her torso was found nearby on July twenty sixth. Although
not a club member, Hueman participated in public rifle events

(50:25):
and volunteered there as a safety coach. How ironic a
safety coach really, Club records from two thousand and six.
In twenty ten helped police link them to locations tied
to the Manorville two murders, the club being just three
miles from crime scenes. So what they're thinking is that
as Rex was traveling to and from this sick sportsman's club,

(50:50):
he was kind of personic, excuse me, sportsman's club. He
was looking around and being like, oh, wait a minute,
that's a good dump site and then he would dumb.
You know, that's what That's what they're thinking. Interesting. M
all right. So, like I said, I saved the most
shocking part for last. Okay, now trust me, this is wild.

(51:12):
And you want to check the show notes because I've
included photos related to this last part. It's about Victoria Huorman,
his daughter, and questions surrounding her possible knowledge of, or
even involvement in her father's alleged crimes.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
How old is she today?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Uh, she's maybe young thirties, maybe like you thirties. Oh yeah,
clearly that's what I mean. So did Rex did his
daughter know what he was doing doing? Could she have
played a role? Okay, and this isn't it wouldn't be unprecedented.
If you guys are familiar with the toy box killer

(51:52):
David Parker Ray, his daughter is believed to have helped
lure some of his supposed forty plus victims. So this
has happened in you father daughter, things happened in the past. Now,
to be clear, the girl Daddy's girl, right, Victoria Hureman
hasn't been charged with anything, nor has she even been
named a suspect. This is purely speculating speculation. Now we

(52:15):
already know her hair was found on multiple victims, including
Valerie Mack, which many a tribute to secondary transfer via
rex Right. But new information suggests that she may not
be as innocent as she portrays. Attorney John Ray, representing
families of the Long Island serial killer victims, claimed Victoria created, viewed,

(52:39):
and shared disturbing, sadistic work online, some eerily resembling details
from her father's alleged crimes. These images were posted on
her now deleted Tumblr and deviant art accounts. Now John
Ray made a huge pressed spectacle of these images and

(53:05):
it was pretty clownish, actually, like it was. You would
have to see it to understand what I'm saying. But
he made a spectacle out of this, holding up these
huge reprints of stuff she either painted or found out
or posted online shared online so as an example, in

(53:26):
one of her Tumbler posts from December twelfth, twenty nineteen,
Victoria Hueman shared an oil painting of a naked woman
with bloody bite marks on her torso. Alongside this monstrous
figure with bloodshot eyes and huge fanged teeth, another image
depicts a nude, deceased woman impaled by antlers. From deer

(53:50):
in a marsh, so deer antler's woman's impaled on top
of the antler's facing up towards the sky, and she's
in a marsh, chillingly similar to where Shannon Gilbert's body
was found in a marsh?

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Okay, right?

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Right?

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Is this a stretch? I don't know, but this is
what the lawyer is claiming. John Ray is claiming, right,
and that's probably how he's doing it. Another image Victoria
shared online shows four people hanging by their necks in
a dark corridor, with one body missing a shoe, supposedly
just like Sandra Costia was found. She was missing a shoe, right,

(54:26):
supposedly right. Victoria posted a painting of a blood smeared
basement and investigators believe Rex may have killed in his basement.
So was this scene?

Speaker 3 (54:38):
We did say that it might be a possibility.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Now now it's almost certain. They believe it's almost certain
he killed in his home. Right, But what they're what
John Ray is saying this painting of it's like a
blood smeared basement, blood smears on the wall, bloody handprints,
you can see, like a cement ground, kind of bloodied up.
The lawyer's thinking, was this something Victoria actually seen? Maybe
and choose a kid?

Speaker 3 (55:01):
Hmm?

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Okay. She shared a photo of a blood drenched hospital
bed in this decrepit hospital room with the caption that read,
the inside of my brain looks like this. What swear
to god? Dude, it's crazy. Another disturbing image depicts a
mutilated bound woman hanging in a dim basement with a

(55:24):
killer holding a knife. And the killer has a haircut
that's almost identical to rex'es that we see in the picture.
The woman is missing a leg. Think of Victoria Mac
thinka Jessica Taylor, and her chest is cut open to
reveal her ribs. Wow. She shared artwork of two desiccated
corpses embracing and another of a red haired woman being

(55:48):
skinned with nails rammed into her breast and leg, with
petite female hands holding this victim's face and a burly
male gripping the victim's hair from behind. So is that
Victoria holding the girl's face and a burly father from
behind holding the girl's red hair from behind while she's
being tortured?

Speaker 3 (56:10):
All of these there's more there is, okay.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
In another post that she shared shows surgical tools labeled
as sex toys. It literally says these are sex toys
and it's nothing but surgical tools. And another picture, and
I don't know if she painted this one or this
is something she shared. It wasn't clear, but another picture
portrays ritualistic cannibalism, featuring a completely destroyed woman whose entrails

(56:40):
have been laid out in plates and her blood in chalices.
So it's incredibly disturbing, no doubt. But does it mean anything.
It's hard to say, right.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
It seems a little too much because like one or two, oh,
you know, okay, but more than you know, like there's
a lot.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
She put up a lot, dude.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
I also don't know what it was like being raised
with this guy, right, I don't know what that's like.
I don't know what how warped she might be. We
never really talked about her to me. She was always
a victim, another victim. I think we even mentioned that
in the in the first two episodes. She was always
a victim in a sense, like she's just a product

(57:24):
of this maniac like upbringing kind of thing. But we
didn't ask a question like what she was, like what
kind of woman she became?

Speaker 1 (57:34):
We don't know. No one knows. She's never made a
public statement. You've only seen her kind of on the street,
dark sunglasses, horribly dressed, like people were saying online.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Horribly like like not like trying not to not get
your attension or.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Well, people were saying online like the only crime she
committed is her fashion sense, you know, things like that.
They made it. Well, so cannibalism, right, this woman is destroyed,
trails on a plate, blood and cups. So it's to disturbing,
doesn't mean anything. I mean, I have a ton of
horror shit in my office, right, I'm not a fucking
statistic killer. But so I'm just saying she's guilty of anything.

(58:09):
The lawyer pretty much is. But you know her online.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
I mean he's a try whatever you can to get
him out. That's his job, right, So.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Her online activity does raise dark questions though, you know,
was she expressing trauma from growing up around the most
extreme violence imaginable? Was she desensitized or worse fascinated by it?
And here's something else to consider. In her Long Island
Serial Killer Victims episode, we mentioned a painting of a

(58:38):
battered woman found in Rex's home. To remember this, No,
I do not investigators are pulling out this big kind
of oil painting, and it was of a woman with
like bruised face, and there's a picture of it in
the show notes of that episode. Now people are saying,
was that something Victoria actually painted herself? Right?

Speaker 3 (58:54):
And why not?

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Why would she have painted that right? They also make
a big deal of this lawyer was making a big
deal because there's a picture of her walking down the
street and she's got a skeleton on her shirt. He's like, see,
come on, fuck off. But these pictures though, the paintings, right,
surgical tools, these are sex toys? What not normal?

Speaker 3 (59:15):
That's that's one of the big ones, because not big ones,
but like one of those. Okay, that's I want to
question a bit more. I make you want to look
into it more because it does seem more than just
like a like a weird morbid fashion sense. It's it's
a little more. But maybe maybe, But I do kind
of think at most though she's not exactly a killer

(59:37):
as well, but I can see like an upbringing where
she's a child and doesn't understand what she might see
one night when she wakes up or when dad's home
or thinks that they're not home, you know, one of
the things they could happen. I mean, this guy was
this guy had an impulse that destroyed his life and others.
So why not the daughter I have seen but not

(01:00:02):
understood something one night and traumatized her. Who can say.
I'm not saying that she is a helper or a
secondary murderer, but also that could be a thing that's
happened in the past. That's not uncommon. I mean it's
not common, but it's not unheard of. Not unheard of. Yeah,
maybe that what do you think do you think that's uh,
she's it's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
So juicy to think that the daughter was involved. Oh
my god, this is a family affair, you know, and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Right, and that's cause you might as well throw the
mother on there too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Well, some people do. Some people certainly do, or at
least being one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
And they like swing parties.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Right, Oh yeah, that was well, yeah, they're having a
swinger party where one of the prostitutes wound up being
murdered killed. So people say that she was involved too.
I don't know, man, I don't think. I don't think
his daughter was involved. I think she could have possibly
seen something. Yeah, I'm thinking in the basement that's mo
way more likely for me. Maybe she did see a
woman hanging and being cut up.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
I don't know, man, that makes it makes the sense
with the art anyway, but.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
It makes sense with the art. Yeah, but again, you know,
I have a ton of fucking weird shit in my
office too, and it doesn't make me a killer.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
So and you've seen a lot of people hang too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
It's kind where I come back on Tuesday. So that's
kind of that's what I have. Those are the updates
kind of some of my thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
I don't know anything else.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
I'm no, but I do have a related but a
totally different thing question that reminded me of this. I
wonder if there's any kind of update at all whatsoever
about the Chicago fifty one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Mmm. Wow, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
So I was watching I was on TikTok right recently.
This was like a week ago, and well, one guy
came up. I don't know if it was a podcast
taking out of context or whatever I was, and it
wasn't a news clipping or just somebody making a TikTok
about the five unresolved serial killers still.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
In the Chicago.

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
In Chicago fifty one was like number five I think
for that so like I and they reminded me of like, oh, yeah,
we haven't thought an update. We only have that one
suspect from that one murder. That could be the murder
of all of them. I wonder that if he is
in prison, has there been more murderers?

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
You know, I don't even remember, I mean forgot listeners
back to it. It was a great episode.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
It was yeah, it was good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Uh, I don't remember the episode. It was called the
Chicago fifty one. I remember someone actually wrote after listening
to the episode and said that they lived in one
of They lived in the neighborhood when those things were
going on, and he's like, you guys did a good
job covering that. He's like, I remember this vividly. Yeah,
that was pretty sure.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
I remember that feedback.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Also, Yeah, I don't know, I haven't heard anything. I
haven't really thought about it. Unfortunately, since we did the episode.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Well because we're talking about serial killer. Sorry, just reminded me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Now that would be good to look into to see
if there have been in developments.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
Cool, Yeah, it might be fun to see if there
is something.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Unknown serial killer haunting the streets of Chicago and that
the cops weren't doing anything because he was killing black
prostitutes and all these things. Fucking crazy story. Yeah, well, good,
very good man. I guess uh. I think we're gonna
go drinking now.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Yeah, let's go drinking, all.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Right, Oscar, take us home. Rubber Baby buggy bumpers, rubber

(01:03:28):
Baby buggy bumpers. Do I sound okay? You know what
we gotta watch? We have the intro song. You gotta
really hit the valume on that sucker, and if we
take my card tonight, I'll show you exactly what I mean.
It's it comes out muffled. I don't know what it is,
and then our voices kick in and it's loud and clear.

(01:03:52):
And you know, right when when we first started using it,
I know, remember I asked you, I'm like, bro, there's
something and then you punched up the volume and it
was good. I said into too, my friend who made it,
I'm like, dude, is everything okay with this file? Is
there anything you need to do?

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Maybe I just did get that's that, I guess because
I've been doing the same thing I did with all
the other musical stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Yeah, I think it just needs to be punched up.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
Okay, yeah, I think I just keep forgetting because.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
It's a dope intro. But it's like, why is it?
It's muffled and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
I listened to that episode, but I wasn't didn't. I wasn't.
I guess I wasn't paying attention. Didn't. I didn't even notice.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
It to that to the intro. We'll just something to
keep in mind.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Say this though, I'm on my fourth audiobook since I
started uber reading.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
That would be cool too.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
I'm fucking going through I did say spot in four days?

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Did you really?

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
My first time?

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Man? Alright, wait, let me see what do I have?

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Pretty cool?

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah, I would. That's all I would be doing is
listening to podcasts and audiobooks.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Yeah, I'm listening to the Silo books now. I just
started those Silo. Yeah, the show Silo on Apple TV.
Plus I don't know, it's sci fi. It's really good,
really good. Another Apocko box, but I love it. But
it's based on these three books that are I guess popular.
I never so they just went through season two. So

(01:05:09):
I want to read the books.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Nice. I just wanted to read you my sorry, So
we got and I gotta listen to the Man in
the Black Suit, Stephen King, The Voice of the Night.
It's a short story, The Big Dark Sky, Dean Koon's
I the Dragons, Stephen King, Bizarre Bad Dreams Stephen King
from a Buick eight Stephen King, Thirteen Past Midnight Stephen King.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
So you may mean he's lately.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
No, oh no, these are just in my audible. I
got them a long time ago. And oh I forgot
I say, Arkham County something Batman, Flight or Fright, Stephen
King and Bev Fincent, The Long Walk. Stephen King makes
something up by Chuck Palinook, which is I guess it's
a new book. Fire and Blood, Halloween like the Hallowe

(01:06:00):
like a novelization Adjustment Day, Chuck Palanuk, Origin, Dan Brown,
Scarlet Gospels, Clive Barker, The Invention of Sounds. See, I've
read a lot of these, but not the twisted ones.
I haven't read Dreams Come to Life Five Nights at Freddy's.
We download that for Nico. Five Nights The Fourth Closet.

(01:06:22):
I don't know when I got that one, but yeah,
so that's in my audible library right now.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
In case you wanted to know, I'm afraid to show
you mine. It's a lot. I have a lot in here.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Maybe I'll just maybe I'll just hit you with not
started books. I haven't started yet. I've been Oh yeah,
I want to remead Wicked because.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Of the movie. Yeah, have you seen it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
I did see the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Was it great? Have liked it? Yeah? I want to
see it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
And it's very everything musical go ahead. Oh then yeah,
that's very very good, very true to that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
I guess Katie took me actually way back.

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
There's absolutely no surprise to it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Though.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
If you've seen the musical, you know what happen.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
I mean, it's been years, it's literally probably fucking yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
And that's why I said too, that's why I haven't
read the book since that time period. Also, I'm i go,
I want to reread it. I got oh, I got
the the Philip Pullman series his Dark Materials. Yes, yeah,
I got those. I got already mentioned the style of books.
I have a boot book book called Nuclear War A
Little Life. I have the complete Poppy War trilogy, which

(01:07:36):
I heard good things. I have a bunch of Chuck
Palinook David Mitchell books of a History Book. Christmas Eve
nineteen fourteen about the First World War, Georgia Owell's things.
What's what's an? Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
One?

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Here? Then nothing? Man, I don't know what that is
in magica, oh, Cly Barker. Yeah, I never read that neither.
I have the Yeah Annihilation books in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
I just read the first one.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
Yeah, that's a very cold perspective, very clinical.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
It was good. I like the book.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
I read the first one a couple of years ago.
But this part is actually a trilogy, and I have
the authority and acceptance. I think they're called uh infinite
just on killing another history book. A bunch of thrillers done,
and I don't know all I should read. Doing a

(01:08:37):
bunch of sci fi. Ring World. I never read ring World,
but I have the first one here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Yeah. Of mixed bags, a lot of mixed No, it's cool,
a lot of them. Yeah, that's what i'd been doing. Man,
I'd been listening to podcasts and audiobooks all night.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
It's basically I do.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
That's pretty cool. Yeah, all right, do you want to start?
You don't get into it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
Are you warmed up?

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Yeah? I'm good. I want to go to the bar.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
So yeah, you know, it's funny we don't ever hurry,
like for sleep or for our health or well being
to back.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
To the bar.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
Right, yeah, all right, ready for count.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Okay, wait you sure? Writer one hundred and sixty fourth episode.
This actually bought in Kentucky and this chicken I remember
now that the chicken cock brand goes back way long
time ago. This was really popular in the like speakeasies
during Prohibition. The Cotton Club would have chicken cock, although

(01:09:40):
it was smuggled in like these tin cans, so they
called it like the tin can whiskey. This brand goes
back fucking forever, you know. So it's a cool story
behind it, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
When it was made in bath.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Tubs and should pretty much. Okay, So I read.

Speaker 3 (01:09:55):
This, Uh, I read this. This is unrelated, but it
reminds you of the old days. This isn't movie called
I think it's called I think It's White Christmas the original?

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Do you remember the scene at the end. I mean
there's many scenes, but the one particularly scene at the
end where it's like snowing and everyone's dancing in the
snowng shed and having fun. Yeah, apparently I found out
that it's uh, first of all, all the snow, and
that movie's fake because they're in la you know, it's
not like that real snow. Secondly, that's asbestos.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Oh so they're all fucking lung cancer. Now.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Yeah, there's a scene where one of the characters like
literally takes a bunch of snow into her face and
it's enjoying it, like and that fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
People are so stupid back then.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
No, we're stupid now, but we know about as best
as least.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
That happened around here a couple of years ago. They
were not the asbestos. They were filming a movie and
it was cold. There was no snow on the ground
anymore though, like snow had already melted. But there was
one house here that they just doused in fake snow
and they filmed something. We never did find out what
it was, but it was a lock or two behind
me they make It was right here.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
In if it was a Christmas movie. There's so many that.
I mean, they make like thirty new Christmas movies a
year at least. It's just that twenty nine of them
are terrible, right, People are forgettable, and they are fucking
terrible and forgettable. Oh yeah, let me try this a
weird candy thing before I forget.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
He's got some weird Japanese drinks coming to.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Those I'm a little more familiar with. I also like
I've had a lot more of the Japanese nips chips.
They have unique flavors of chips, like shrimp. Oh, it's
actually not bad. Dog, it's actually not bad. But they
have way more seafood in their thing than we do.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
So is it a cookie? What is it? Who more? Really?
It's cool, Yes, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
Wow, it's harder and softer than I thought it would be.
I don't know what's in the middle.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
What is this?

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
H I don't know what that is.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
They like this bean paste a lot with the sweets.
That's a big thing for them. I don't like it personally, but.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
I know it's talking about get those at the sushi places,
those bean little bean ball patty thing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
Yes, exactly, like about this. Maybe that's what's in here.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
You can't it's not like you read the label.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
Yeah, no idea what it says. I can read the numbers. Oh,
there's a website. I'm yeah. Your son is becoming really
involved into the Japanese culture.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
He really is.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
That happens a lot when people that are into anime
y Yeah he really I had that face too. Where
like back during the Naruto and Prince of Tenna's days,
they used to watch ships on of anime like NonStop, right,
and like it got me into manga, got me into
you know, Japanese chips and the candies and the drinks.

(01:13:19):
They went to Mitsuwa, I went to h to see yeah. Yeah,
and then from there you trying to, you know, find
Japanese chicks to hit on. It's just natural and man
that they do not like foreigners are my experience whites

(01:13:39):
or no not non Japanese, my white bitch. True also
also realized also that's another thing anime and especially anime.
It's huge in like South Little Border huge, really huge
in Mexico, Watemala, all those places, Argentina. Yeah, huge, Like

(01:14:00):
it's bigger than you think it is because a lot
a lot of us grew up on anime that was
translated or dubbed in Spanish. I did I watched dragon
Ball in Spanish? I never saw it in English.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Well I remember dragon Ball that was huge for a while. Yeah,
it was do you want to continue? So we could
go out and drink?

Speaker 3 (01:14:25):
I like, how you like, can we continue to go
out and drink?

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
Now? I'm excited. We never do this.

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
You're right. You know what, when was the last time
we went out for a drink?

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
I can remember Vegas. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
And yeah, no, I mean we didn't go out anywhere
in Ohio to Yeah we did.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
It was Ohio after Vegas, pretty sure it was. Yeah,
we did, for sure, a couple of places. No, is
that that? Or am I smelling that? I don't know,
strawberry smelling strawberry.

Speaker 3 (01:14:58):
No, it's a Caribbean punch. I don't know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Korean punch, Kribbean Caribbean punch that ship, You are right.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Koreban punch. Yeah, yeah, no, I just caught me off guard. No,
not Korean.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
I like chicken cock.
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