Episode 147: Shag Harbour UFO Incident

Episode Transcript
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(00:33):
Welcome to the one hundred and fortyseventh episode of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast
So Unusually Paranormal. My name isJason Knight, host of the show,
and with me as always is SirOscar Spector. I just got knighted producer,

(00:56):
extraordinary podcast co host. Thank youfor bequeathing us your presence, Surspector.
Yeah, the queen is a bitchthough, just sorry. Now,
the tea was a little too hotin my opinion. It's just my opinion,
okay, but united me, itwas cool, very nice, very
nice. Uh. Listeners, Ifyou would like to skip our intros,

(01:17):
please go to the show notes.You'll find a time stamp there waiting for
you to get you right to thetopic. Oscar, what has been going
on with you these last two weeks? Nothing too crazy, nothing too much
to report. Been preparing for Halloween. Halloween season, guys. That means
it means you start saving on yourelectric bill by taking down the AC units

(01:40):
in my case, three of themand getting ready for the nice pockets of
the cold winter months coming up.I love the winter. I love cold.
Give it to me anyway. Otherthan that, you know, I
have a little pumpkin thing for thegirls, the kind of shit you know,
car pumpkins and they can hang inthem and shed and they love that

(02:00):
ship. And in that Halloween aspect, I've been looking online to see if
I can get a good a goodversion, like a solid version of the
Squid Game costume two for Halloween,which is an obvious choice, granted,
but we're not. You know,it seems like it's easy enough to replicate.

(02:23):
And there's a lot of shops outthere since the since the show has
been popping up. It's in everyone'sfeeds. It's on TikTok a lot,
it's on Facebook and everything. Andit's a fun show and I really like
it. I keep hearing about it. I keep hearing about it. I
haven't watched it yet. I haveto get it into my queue to watch.
Yeah, right exactly. And it'sa and it's a it's a very

(02:45):
strange concept. It is South Koreanthe show, but it's a weird concept.
But it takes uh the ideas ofgames that you know, gen gen
xers millennials and older played as kids, like with marbles, so you or
a tug of war or shit likethat, and maybe it or tag you
know, you think of those gamesand you put it to its extreme measure,

(03:07):
right and too in this situation wherepeople are are forced to play this
game and the losers get killed.Basically it's a real life and death situation
and they all do it for forhopefully redemption via money anyway, So it's
a it's a fun, fun show. I'm not finished with the yet,
i should say, but I'm almostdone with it. It's a lot of

(03:28):
fun going back to the old days. Yeah, I definitely want to check
it out. So you're saying it'sall over TikTok this show, it's everywhere.
It's quid right now, right now, it's kind of everywhere. Yeah,
all right, I'm a little behind, but I will. I will
catch up and let you know whatI think. Yeah, I do.
Just not know what about you?What you've been up to? Oh man,
just just work. There's there's literallynothing interesting on my front. The

(03:52):
last couple I don't it feels likemonths. Well, if you listen to
the outtakes, folks, he didsee a very particular movie that has taken
up his mental brain capacity lately.But it's a ready in the outtakes,
So just wait for that, butyeah, yeah, because my blood pressure
just spiked when you mentioned that movie. I don't even mention it. You

(04:13):
don't have to. Yeah, works, and it's it's a really strange thing.
So, I mean, I'm nowin in sales. I have a
kind of a really high profile salesjob, and no one's talking about it.
But we are in the middle ofa global supply chain crisis that's affecting
not only my industry, but somany other countless industries. It is a

(04:39):
horizontal problem that's happening in the worldright now, and no one's talking about
it. It's not not in mainstreamnews media, social otherwise, no one's
talking about it. But yet itis completely disrupting the global economy. And
so I've just been for the lastI don't know, it seems like a

(05:00):
year at this point, if notdamn near close to just dealing with the
fallout of that day in day out, and it it just beats me to
death. It's it's bad. It'sbad. I'm doing okay financially, thank
god, but hm, it's justit's bad. And as it progresses,
I'm really starting to be convinced thatthere's something greater going on here. Especially

(05:27):
how it's not being covered. Sothat's that's just been taking up so much
of my time is dealing with thefallout of that at my company. So
yeah, I can see that.I can probably see Steven Soderberg make a
movie about it in five years orsomething. He does that a lot.
Yeah, And by the way,it's affected in my industry. For those

(05:48):
who remember, I work at aStarbucks. So like if you frequent Starbucks
and you realize that, hey,they've been out of peppermint or toping not
or very very high biscus for likemonths now, I consistently this is part
of the same thing, yeah,that we're talking about. Yeah, yep,
I think everywhere. Yeah, becauseif it's not coming from overseas,

(06:09):
if it's if it's here in theStates, there's issues with transportation, be
it boats coming here from other countries, to trains, to trucks, to
longshoremen, to customs, you nameit, it is affected. And yeah,
you'll feel it. And something assilly as a drink, you know,

(06:29):
your favorite drink exactly, syrup inthis case or whatever. I vape,
right, I quit smoke and Istarted vaping. I dropped my vape
and I busted the tip that wason the vape. Right, I'm like,
shit, I gotta go to thestore by one of these things.
Couldn't find it because they're coming frommost of them come from China. Yeah

(06:50):
they do, They're not here.Can they find them anywhere? Yeah,
a stupid tip for your vape.This what I'm saying, it's happening.
It's affecting us. Try to ordera computer, an appliance, a brand
new car. Cardboard paper is goingto become a problem, they're saying,
consumer electronics. Try to order it, backlogged, back ordered. You know,

(07:13):
it's it's it's a big, big, big problem. And again,
no one's talking about it. AndI'm starting to think there's something more to
it, a conspiracy somewhere, butI'm not going to go down that rabbit
hole. Point is that's what's beentaking up all my time. So I
don't have anything super cool to report. I'm sorry, No, that is
that is a report. That isa good report. You already did it.
You just don't have anything else.But that's well, there you go.

(07:34):
No I don't, I don't haveanything else. I'm sorry, I
got it. No, it's good. I like it. Maybe another short
intro this time, I don't knowno such thing. Now, let's not
get people used to the last one. Okay, just saying okay, I
like long interest. So but withthat in mind, you should really tell

(07:55):
them how they can get in contactwith us. With that in mind,
it up. The easiest way tocontact the Supernatural occurren Studies Podcast is by
visiting our website. Our brand newwebsite, by the way, Oscar,
I don't know if you've checked itout, completely revamped, much more mobile,
user friendly. Got a lot ofcomplaints about trying to access the site

(08:16):
via smart devices. You could dothat now Chicago Ghost Podcast dot com.
That's Chicago Ghost podcast dot com.From the website, you get to all
of our social accounts, be itFacebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram,
and of course Patreon. And incase you didn't know, for just five
dollars a month, you could haveaccess to a library of exclusive Patreon audio

(08:41):
and video content. This content thatwon't appear here in our public feed.
It's just for our patrons. Ifyou go to Patreon dot com, forward
slash Supernatural Occurrent Studies Podcast can pledgeyour support for the show have access to
that library of exclusive content. Whatdo you say, support your favorite podcast,
Yeah to the do something now.Luckily, luckily, you know,

(09:03):
this is the part, you know, the one bad one great thing about
not great thing. But the onething that isn't affected by with the shortages
that Jay we was just talking aboutis that, you know, websites of
the Internet that's still very much strong. You know, yes, it's like
that's no, there's no shortage ofInternet. You know, that's not ever
going to be a problem. Butluckily though for all of us involved,

(09:24):
especially for those people who might beI don't know, willing to try their
phone out as a phone, isthat the phone lines are down there.
There's less phone lines out there,and we had to we had to mix
our phone number. Do you know, I was wondering, where's he going
with this? Now? We hadto cut back on our very crappy,

(09:45):
unprofessional leads to a drug dealer throughIdaho Way phone number that we that we
spew here on the show because reasons, you know, reasons, we got
them right, you know, it'syou just reminded me that I don't have
the phone number anywhere on the newwebsite. I've got to correct that.
Fuck, I can't believe I didthat yet take the web designer. So

(10:09):
the number he's talking about that'll getyou to a drug dealer via Idaho is
Chicago area code eight seven to twofive two nine zero seven six seven.
That Chicago area code eight seven totwo five two nine zero seven six seven.
But don't use that until more morephone cables get brought from overseas.
There they have to dredge the oceansright with these cables. Yeah, while

(10:35):
you're waiting for that to happen,you could watch The Many Saints of nork
Oscar. Let's take a break inYeah, let's take a break. I
hate it so much, listeners,welcome back to the show. Well,

(11:30):
the lights are turned down low,the ceremonial candle is lit, and the
drinks are flowing. Let's start thisshow. So tonight we're gonna be talking
about the Shag Harbor Ufo incident.Shag Baby, Yeah, did you just
pull out Austin Powers Dad? Iwas, yeah, yeah, the Shag

(11:52):
Harbor Ufo incident. And I reallybelieve that after researching you know, this
this topic so thorough, I reallybelieve something something happened here. This I
think is one of those cases thatwe could say Yes, this was unidentifiable.
Something really happened here in this tiny, tiny fishing village up in Canada.

(12:18):
It's pretty amazing. And I lovethat we're covering this incident now because
the fifty fourth anniversary of the shagHarbor Ufo incident just passed on October fourth,
so we're recording this on the sixth, so it's timely. Yeah,
it is. So I'm curious toknow at the end, once I spell

(12:39):
all this out, what people think. Did something really happen here? Because
I think it did, and ifit did, the implications are huge.
Okay, So the shag Harbor Ufoincident took place on the night of October
fourth, nineteen sixty seven, aroundeleven pm near, like I said,

(13:00):
small fishing village called you guessed it, shag Harbor on Nova Scotia's Atlantic coast.
Now, you don't hear a lotabout this case, which is kind
of why I wanted to cover it. Maybe because it happened outside the US,
as in case you didn't know,Nova Scotia is part of Canada,

(13:20):
or maybe because it didn't happen ina densely populated city. After all,
Nova Scotia is Canada's second smallest provincein area, right after Prince Edward Island.
Whatever the fact is, the shagHarbor UFO incident, which was really
a crash and attempted retrieval of anunknown object, did happen, and it's

(13:41):
often referred to as the Canadian roswell. And at the time, again in
nineteen sixty seven, the UFO casewe're about to talk about was huge news,
having at the very least sixty eyewitnessaccounts, one of which we'll hear
later in this episode. Now,Oscar, we have an eyewitness interview made

(14:03):
for us for this episode, conductedby a close friend of the show with
ties to Shag Harbor, which isreally cool. That is cool. I
have not listened to it yet,folks, by the way, but you
will. First. Yeah, notonly did the shag Harbor UFO incident have
ton of eyewitnesses, including airline pilots, military personnel, and police officers,

(14:28):
the case was also investigated by theRoyal Canadian Mounted Police the RCMP, the
Canadian Coast Guard, which had onlybeen formed a few years prior to this
incident in nineteen sixty two. Itwas investigated by the Canadian Navy and the
Canadian Air Force, and it waseven investigated by the United States via the

(14:50):
Condon Committee. And of course allthe official investigation led to a lot of
official documents. And that's the onething Shag Harbor UFO isn't short on documentation.
This case has a paper trail amile long. And the attempted UFO
recovery was even broadcast across Canada onthe Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's Evening News. That's

(15:18):
something you don't see every day.Wow, Yeah, especially when you compare
it to our Rothwell. You know, Nova Scotia and Rothwell are both notable
known to be like middle of nowhereareas obviously one really hot and one really
cold, but like similar similar,similar kind of like location types and like

(15:41):
you can see where like oh man, it might be hard to get when
it says but no, that's that'sthat's that's crazy that they did. I'll
just say it sounds like a betterjob of telling people like that hiding at
you know, trying to Yeah,that's cool. Yeah, yeah, I
mean what happened after what happened atRoswell, Right. We talked about this

(16:02):
in the The Extraterrestrial Extravaganza podcast episodes. A report came out that a disc
was down, and then immediately thatwas retracted and it was sealed, the
lid put on it right not here, This was on the evening news,
which is which is really pretty interesting. Now, what I think is really

(16:22):
interesting is the fact that it wasthe officials that labeled this thing a UFO,
the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, theCanadian Air Force, the Canadian Navy,
NORRAD, the Coast Guard, andnot the civilian witnesses. The civilian
witnesses all thought a small doomed airplanewent down in shad Harbor, but not

(16:45):
the Brass. The Brass honestly thoughtthey had seen and were searching for a
downed extraterrestrial craft. It said soin their reports, And I think that
leads a lot of credibility to thisstory. Yeah, it does right.
In fact, thirty six hours afterthe event, several Canadian Defense Department officials

(17:07):
signed off on a memo that madeit clear that authorities had no idea what
they were dealing with. The memoread, in part quote, A preliminary
investigation has been carried out by theRescue Coordination Center in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
It has been determined that this UFOsighting was not caused by a flare,

(17:29):
float, aircraft or in fact anyknown object end quote. Pretty cool,
right for the officials to come outand say that, actually, the
Shag Harbor incident is one of thevery few instances in which government officials formally
declared that an unidentified flying object wasinvolved. In other words, no official

(17:52):
explanation was ever given to try andexplain away the incredible events that took place
on October fourth, nineteen sixty sevenat Shack Harbor. Now, I just
want to take a little quick sidestephere and talk briefly about something I mentioned
as far as official bodies that investigatedthis incident, The Condon Committee, Now,

(18:15):
in case you don't know, theCondon Committee was a US Air Force
sponsored program that ran from nineteen sixtysix to nineteen sixty eight, headed by
physicist Edward Condon. The purpose ofthe Condon Committee was to investigate UFO sidings
and determine whether UFOs were quote unquotea problem that warranted continued government sponsored research,

(18:38):
like the research being conducted by ProjectBlue Book. Now, the final
report published by the Condon Committee,called the Condon Report stated that after investigating
hundreds of case files of supposed UFOactivity and UFO sightings files mainly provided by
Project Blue Book and civilian UFO organizationslike the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon

(19:04):
or NIGHTCAP, the Condo Report concludedthat UFOs were not a problem, that
most UFO reports were totally explained,totally explainable, and that studying UFOs would
yield no scientific benefit. And thatwas the Condom Report's determination on what the
report called Case number thirty four,the Shag Harbor Incident two. The report

(19:29):
provided absolutely no explanation for the ShagHarbor incident. In other words, move
along, nothing to see here,and no reason to explore any further this
particular incident. In other words,the Condo Report really a poo pooed the
idea of UFOs and little green visitorsfrom other worlds. And Project Blue Book

(19:49):
was quickly disbanded after the Condom Reportwas published. Or was it. Listen
to Supernatural Currencities podcast episodes sixteen andone seventeen to find out more about Project
Blue Book. Yeah, and alsoI mentioned then we talk about Nightcap.
When we talked about Skinwalker. Ifeel like we did. I feel like

(20:11):
I did. Or was it inthe extravagance of what we mentioned Nightcap because
I remember researching that and I remembercontent being one of the names. It
might have been in the Extraterrestrial series, Okay, because I thought it wasn't
the other one. But okay,maybe right, okay, but maybe because
you know, the Condon Report basicallypoo pooed on UFOs and aliens, maybe

(20:33):
this is the real reason why shagHarbor incident kind of faded away because the
Condon Report basically shot it down.Anyway, this investigative body, the Condon
Committee, was involved in the ShagHarbor UFO incident. So again, big
news when it happened, right,This incident captured the attention of high level
organizations, right And actually, intwenty nineteen, the World Canadian Mint issued

(20:57):
this rectangular glowing and the dark imagechanging pure silver coin commemorating the Shag Harbor
UFO Wow popular. Right again,this coin is awesome. I gotta get
me one. But ye anyway,okay, let's get into it. So
what exactly happened on the night ofOctober fourth, nineteen sixty seven that Cord

(21:18):
took such a fuss at high levelorganizations. Well, to begin with,
we must start with the sightings reportedall over Eastern Canada before the actual crash
in Shag Harbor. A fishing boatstationed off the coast of Sambro, Nova
Scotia, called the m V Nickerson, with eighteen people on board, tracked

(21:41):
on radar four strange objects or blipsin the North Atlantic for over two hours
up until about an hour and ahalf before the Shag Harbor crash. And
so you know, Sambro is abouta three hour car ride from Shag Harbor,
or about one hundred and forty sevenauticle miles. The fishermen also saw

(22:03):
four bright lights in the sky arrangedwhat they described as a rectangular pattern.
The captain of m V Nickerson,named Captain Leo Mercy, was so moved
by this incident that he felt compelledto file a report with the harbor Master
and the Royal Mounted Police. Numerouscivilians witnessed objects in the sky up and

(22:26):
down the Nova Scotia coast, promptingthem to file panic reports mere hours before
the crash. And we'll get intoa few witness testimonies here in a bit,
but like I mentioned earlier, wehave an interview with one of those
witnesses, a man named Norman Smith, a name mentioned in a lot of
the articles you'll read about the ShagHarbor incident. So we have a fishing

(22:48):
boat with eighteen people on board,witnessing strange things in the sky and in
the ocean on radar, and we'regoing to talk about civilian sightings. Now,
I'd like to talk a little bitabout some amazing sightings reported by highly
trained pilots who were fortunate enough tofind themselves in the air and around Shag
Harbor on the night of October third, nineteen sixty seven, and on the

(23:11):
night of October fourth, nineteen sixtyseven, the night of the crash.
First, I'd like to talk aboutpan Am Flight one sixty, a Boeing
seven oh seven cargo aircraft that wasapproaching Yarmouth, Nova, Scotia, about
forty four driving miles or thirty eightnautical miles from Shag Harbor and flying at
thirty three thousand feet on the nightof October third, nineteen sixty seven.

(23:34):
So, the night before the UFOcrash, all was routine and going well
with Flight one sixty, when Suddenly, co pilot Ralph Lowinger, Captain Kurt
Olsen, and flight engineer Mike Littlepagesaw what they described as a huge formation
of bright lights at their eleven o'clockposition as they approached the coast of Nova

(23:57):
Scotia over the Gulf of which isreally close to Shag Harbor. It's the
same body of water. The pilotsdescribed the object as looking like a cruise
ship. It's pretty damn big wow. Yeah. Trying to rationalize away what
they were seeing, the pilots thoughtthe object could have been another large transport

(24:18):
plane displaying full lights, and Flightone sixty's path was taking them straight towards
this object. The pilots felt theimmediate need to steer Flight one sixty out
of the other object's path to avoidcollision, which they did not. Understanding
what the hell was going on,The pilots contacted Boston Air Traffic Control and

(24:41):
asked if their flight was still visibleon Boston's radar. Boston confirmed that Flight
one sixty was visible on radar,to which the pilots replied, who's up
here with us at our eleven o'clock. Boston went silent for a moment,
then came back and confirmed that Flightone sixty was completely alone. No other
aircraft was anywhere near the flight.That must created oh in that moment when

(25:07):
they're like, you're alone out there, but what But yet they're looking at
this massive cruise ship looking thing fullylit. Dude, I hate flying as
it is. I can't even imaginewhat's going through their minds at this point.
Oh yeah. For me, I'mlike excited, you're you're a living
are Yeah. So Boston comes andsays, Nope, you're up there alone.
Yet the pilots were watching this cruiseship looking thing hovering up there with

(25:29):
them, and eventually the strange lightsdisappeared. All three men on board Flight
one sixty agreed to not file areport. They wanted to avoid the paperwork
and the hassle and the stigma ofreporting something like this. And this is
a decision that Ralph Loinger says heregrets to this day. He wished he
would have filed a report. Okay, Now, a few days after this

(25:52):
strange encounter and the sky's over NovaScotia, Ralph Loinger was listening to the
radio and he heard a new reportsay quote the RCMP or the Royal Canadian
Mounted Police has discontinued search operations forthe strange light formations reporting falling into the
sea near Yarmouth end quote. Wow, now longer realized immediately that this had

(26:18):
to be the same light formation heand his fellow airman saw in the sky
on the evening of October third,and in the exact same location. To
quote Ralph Loinger quote, to thisday, I do not know what I
saw, but it is clear thatit was under intelligent control and coincided as
to time and place with what wasseen by at least sixty people on the

(26:41):
ground end quote, referring to,of course, the crash at Shag Harbor.
Pretty amazing. Very Now let's talkabout Air Canada Flight three h five.
This event happened on the night ofOctober fourth, just about fourish hours
before the crash at Shag Harbor.So at around seven pm on October fourth,

(27:03):
nineteen sixty seven, two pilots aboardAir Canada Flight three oh five were
flying westbound over Shearbrook and Saint John, Quebec when suddenly a strange object appeared
to the port side of their aircraft. The pilots claimed the unknown object was
on a parallel course with their flightpath, and it was tracking them through
the skies. Now, in theirofficial reports, First Officer Robert Ralph and

(27:30):
Captain Pierre Charboneau described the object asa brilliantly lit rectangular object with the string
of smaller lights trailing the object.Now keep in mind the rectangular shaped object
witnessed by these pilots. Hearkens backto what the fishermen aboard the m VY
Nickerson described a rectangular object. Ralphand Charbonneaux claimed to have noticed a sizeable

(27:56):
silent explosion near the large object,and two minutes later they saw a second
explosion which faded into a blue cloudaround that same object. It seems whatever
the pilots were witnessing was in trouble. Now, these explosions, especially the
bluish color attributed to the second explosion, is going to be really important here

(28:18):
a little later in this story.So we have some incredible events happening in
the sky all around Shag Harbor leadingup to the crash. We have similar
descriptions of the objects, We haveexplosions, and we have official reports being
filed by frightened or maybe more likeconcerned and confused witnesses. Credible witnesses too.

(28:41):
Now it's time to take a lookat what's happening on the ground at
ground zero, if you will.Now. The initial report came just before
the crash on the night of Octoberfourth, when a witness named Laurie Wickens,
a seventeen year old Shag Harbor resident, along with three or four friends.
Reports differ on how many people werewith. Wickens were driving through Shag

(29:03):
Harbor on Highway three when they allsaw an object about the size of a
bus slowly descending towards Shag Harbor towardsthe water. Wickens said the object had
four lights arranged in a row,and they were going on and off.
One light would come on, thenlight number two, then three, and

(29:23):
then four, and then they'd allgo off for a second and come back
on again in that one, two, three, four pattern. Wickens and
his friends watched as the object suddenlydipped to a forty five degree angle and
fell below the tree line, andat the same time, the friends heard
a whistling sound and then a loudbang like an explosion, just like the

(29:47):
pilots on Air Canada flight three hfive reported a few hours earlier. Now,
listeners, please go to the shownotes. I have a picture supposedly
of this UFO coming in for itswatery landing on Shag Harbor. It's in
the notes for you to see.The picture shows the UFO whatever it was,

(30:08):
descending or falling towards Shag Harbor,towards that water. Now what's really
strange is the object looks like ahuge fiery blue orb accompanied by another object
that looks like this big red diamond. Now, what I think is really
coincidental with this picture is this blueorb looking looking object. Remember what the

(30:30):
pilots on Air Canada flight three hfive said. They said that when they
saw two explosions, the second resultedin this big blue cloud. The picture
I have in the show notes showswhat certainly could be a big blue cloud
heading right towards the water. Isit a damaged aircraft to some kind?

(30:52):
Anyway? Check it out. Letus know what you think. It's pretty
amazing photo. That's that's insane.I haven't seen it either, obviously,
but I can't wait to see it. That was very hard to get that
photo. Can't find that photo anywhere. What I did is I was watching
a documentary about the Shag Harbor UFOincident, and they put the photo in
the documentary, so it wouldn't letme. Amazon doesn't let you screenshot movies,

(31:18):
so I had to take a pictureof my phone and then uploaded that.
It's very difficult to find, butI got it. So listeners check
it out. That's cool. Itjust lends more credibility to the story.
It really does. Okay, backto Lori Wickens, thinking they were witnessing
a deadly plane crash. Remember Isaid in the beginning, civilian witnesses.

(31:41):
They didn't claim this was a UFO. They literally thought it was a aircraft,
one of ours of human making comingin for a crash. Something normal,
something normal exactly. So, thinkingthey were witnessing a deadly plane crash,
Wickens ran to a payphone and calledthe r CMP right the Royal Canadian

(32:01):
Mounted Police the Mounties. At first, the police thought Wickens was drunk and
making a prank call, so theyignored him. But because multiple other reports
were coming in describing an object inthe sky close to Shag Harbor, the
police decided to check it out.One of the responding officers, our CMP,

(32:21):
Constable Ron Pound, witnessed the strangelight himself as he drove down the
highway en route to Shag Harbor.Wickens and about a dozen other people,
including three Mounties Police Constable Ron Poundbeing one of them, stood at the
water's edge and watched in amazement asan orange sphere with lights on it,

(32:44):
again described as being about the sizeof a bus or about forty to fifty
forty to sixty feet across, bobbedup and down in Shag Harbor, about
three hundred yards from where they werestationed on shore. Where they stood on
shore, and at about eleven twentypm, the mysterious object slipped soundlessly below

(33:05):
the surface and that was it.The UFO was gone. Now. Another
civilian witness named Norman Smith was drivinghome to his father's house in Shag Harbor
when he too witnessed the lights inthe sky that seemed to be heading straight
down towards the water, and shortlythereafter Smith passed flashing police cars also heading

(33:28):
towards the harbor. Now intrigued,Smith went home, He roused up his
father, and the two men,along with one of Smith's friends, headed
down towards towards the harbor to seewhat all the commotion was about. Now
here's where I'd like to play theinterview we have because ultimately, Norman Smith,
this guy jumps in a boat andhead straight out to where the UFO

(33:49):
submerged. I think his gusta already. Yeah right now, I think that's
pretty crazy. I don't know ifI would do that. I think I
would be afraid to do that.But you know that if I'm at the
four of us were there, Let'ssay Dave and Joe, we I mean
you'd stay on the shore, butwe would all all three of us will
go go ahead. I'm good,Yeah, text me as you're road away

(34:12):
right, text me now. Myfriend, we'll call him, John R.
Whose family owns an island north ofshad Harbor called Goodwin's Island. They
actually own an island up there,interviewed Norman Smith for us for this podcast.
So a huge thank you to Johnfor providing the interview for this episode.
And towards the end of the interview, Norman Swift, Norman Smith actually

(34:35):
gives me a shout out. Heuses my real he uses my real name,
so you're gonna hear it. Butstill, how cool is that?
Now? This is this video,this interview, it's a video interview.
So I think we'll put the videoon Patreon so our patrons could see Norman
Smith tell his story. Okay,cool listeners, don't miss out. Join
our Patreon so you too could seethis first hand account. A link to

(34:58):
our Patreon is in the show notes. Anyway, let's hear Norman Smith describe
what he witnessed that night in nineteenthIn October nineteen sixty seven, Oscar,
could we play the interview? Yes? So, what's your name, Norman
Smith? Norman Smith? And wherewere you at nineteen sixty seven when I
guess something hit the water? Whathit the water? Where were you at?

(35:21):
Well? When I when I firstseen it, David Kendrick and I
a friend of mine, was comingfrom Cape Island and we lived in Shag
Arbor at the time, and wesee this thing in the over top of
the trees. The lights. Thefirst light looked like a full moon,
and the next light was like that, and smaller and smaller till the last
morning on the tail end was likethe size of the light bulb, and

(35:45):
it was pointing at the ground andit was stopped, and we thought it
was a plane going away from us, and we could see the lights on
it like going straight away. Youcouldn't tell whether it was moving or not.
So we pulled over the side thehighway and I got out. I
couldn't hear nothing, you couldn't seenothing, like a total quiet. Yeah,

(36:06):
total choiet. Got Mosquito wan't affordhim. He held my video here.
Anyway, We pulled over the sideof the highway and I got out,
and David said, Jesus, getback in the car. Let's go
home and get your father and thenfollow it out on the lawn so they
can see it. We we hadto drive but another two kilometers from when

(36:29):
we got to my father's place.I ran the house, got him.
He come out, and then Lawrencelived, my uncle lived on the in
the next house, ran next doorand got him. We all stood outside
the mountains. Was coming sirens.We could hear the sirens coming from Barrington.
And we followed the mounties up tothe crash site there in jery Garboro,

(36:51):
and it came down out of thesky and it landed on the water.
Did land in the water, ontop of it on the on the
water on top of the water.Sat there. Well, yeah, you
could still see the lights, andwe watched it for Lake well, there
was sixteen of us and two outof the sixteen, two of them were
police officers. They seen it,and after we watched it for probably five

(37:15):
minutes, two to five minutes,it was just sayings, you snapped the
switch and the lights went out,and we never said another thing. Did
you see the sun back up inthe sky or did it just lights went
out and the thing disappeared. Thelights just disappeared. Wow. We didn't
see nothing after that. Wow.So we called the coast guard. The
coast guard was on. Clark said, but then and called the coast guard

(37:37):
and they came up. We wentgot in two fishing boats and we went
out. This was like ten thirtyat night when it with search lights looking
for wreckage because we figured it wasa plane that could come down in the
water. And it was between bomPortage Island, which is like two miles
long, and it was between bomPortage Island and the mainland. And we

(38:01):
went in. When we searched allnight long, I never found nothing.
We owned family, Our family ownedGoodwin's Island. It was it right around
Goodwin's Island. Goodwin's Island is abovethat, a little bit north of that.
Yeah, did you believe in UFOsbefore that? Never? Do you
believe in UFOs now? Oh?Yeah, I'd love to see one again.
I like to see the same thingthat I see that night. How

(38:21):
big was the object? Well inthe scullion look like the bigness of a
big plane, big jetline? Wasit like long or was it like circular?
Could you tell where the lights orcircular? And then when it was
in the water all you could seewas lights. You couldn't see no object
gift below you see. Wow,that's a freaking incredible story. But I

(38:45):
can't believe you're extra there to seeit. So this is going to Randy
Talker and say hello to Randy andJason. Are you Randy and Jason and
tell him you're not nuts? AndI'm not nuts, So you guys to
say that. Thanks Norman. Yeah, what a cool story by Norman.
And I love his accent. AndI'll tell you, Norman Smith, he

(39:07):
looks just like how you would expecta kind, tough, old Canadian raised
by the sea to look like.And what do I mean by that?
Don't know? Join our Patreon tofind out. And I know before we
played the interview, I said hementioned my last name, and we're going
to hear it, but I thinkOscar and Post we decided to bleep out

(39:27):
that that last name correct, correct, and you just had a chance magic
of editing to watch that video.Finally, what did you think? What
did you think of Norman Smith's story? It's a cool story at it feels
like I've both an all timer's story, and because it's about his youth,
and you know, it tells astory about seeing the lights and then and

(39:47):
then deciding to go to get hisfather back and then to see the lights
with him, It's like becomes likea moment, like a family moment to
share, you know. And Ilike how he I guess a lot of
that time of him seeing the lightsand trying to intercept the lights, you
know, when they landed on thewater, that he wanted to to maybe

(40:08):
help because he thought it was likehuman, like a human aircraft. He
thought that maybe something crashed and wantedto see if there's wreckage and whatnot.
And obviously he never found anything,like he said, but like it was
dark. It must have been reallypitch black out there. I can't imagine
doing that in a searchlight. Butman, it was such a cool story,

(40:30):
and I like how he described itand some of the words. He
mentioned something before I didn't know whatthat word meant, but you know,
some colloquialism, I'm sure. Yeah, it was a cool story, nice,
very unique to have that for theshow. I'm very grateful for that.
Now, getting back to the tothe overall story, one of the

(40:51):
Mounties the police who witnessed the UFObobbing in the water. He called for
a coastguard cutter, a rescue shitin other words, and so that cutter
was on site, along with afew fishing boats that were already in the
area, and a search began.What was described as a thick, sulfurous
yellow foam drifted up from the harbor'sdepths and created this large slick on the

(41:16):
surface of the water, described asbeing about eighty feet wide and a half
mile long, kind of like thegas and oil slick that floats on top
of the ocean when God forbid,an airliner goes down. Same thing.
The yellow foam was the only evidencethat something was there in the water somewhere

(41:37):
deep below these search vessels. Asthe story goes, no wreckage and no
bodies were ever recovered from this ShagHarbor incident. By the next morning,
RCC Halifax or the Joint Rescue CoordinationCenter in Halifax, Nova Scotia, and
the local NORAD station determined that allcommercial, private, and military aircraft were

(42:04):
accounted for along the entire Eastern Seaboard. It was looking less and less likely
that whatever crashed in Shag Harbor originatedfrom Earth. Right. For three days,
divers searched the harbor's icy depths forany evidence of a downcraft, and
officially nothing was ever found. It'slike it never happened, although there are

(42:28):
people that swear this isn't true.Some locals are convinced artifacts were recovered but
kept secret. Isn't this always thecase with stories like this? Right,
a local fisherman claimed he saw maybedivers bring up aluminum colored metal from the
harbor's depths. No word on whetheror not this actually happened, or if

(42:52):
the debris recovered had anything to dowith an actual UFO. I can tell
you no official documents exist that detailanything being recovered from the crash at Shag
Harbor, but who knows? Andreally this is where the official story of
the Shag Harbor UFO crashed ends.But according to legend, this is not

(43:13):
where the shag Harbor UFO incident ends. You see, there was a supposed
second recovery effort off the coast ofShelbourne, Nova Scotia, about a thirty
seven minute car ride from Shag Harbor. According to a military witness, he
was allegedly briefed that the UFO thatcrashed in the water at Shag Harbor had

(43:34):
originally been picked up on radar comingout of Siberia. After crashing in Shag
Harbor, the UFO traveled underwater tothe coast, up to the coast and
came to rest on top of asubmarine magnetic detection grid reportedly off of Shelburne,
where it was supposedly joined by asecond vehicle, a second UFO or

(43:57):
maybe in this case, a USOan unidentified submersible object. In his book
called Dark Object, the World's OnlyGovernment documented UFO Crash, a book about
the Shag Harbor incident, author andUFO researcher Chris Stiles describes a remarkably tantalizing
incident that took place immediately after thecrash at Shag Harbor. In Dark Object,

(44:23):
styles claims to have interviewed former militaryinsiders and members of the Canadian Navy's
Fleet diving Unit, who told himthat the unidentified object spotted in Shag Harbor
had submerged under its own power.Didn't sink because it crashed. It submerged
on its own and traveled to aspot on the seabed off of Shelbourne,

(44:45):
Nova, Scotia. Styles sources toldthem that a secret flotilla was dispatched,
a secret fleet of ships, inthis case six American and Canadian destroyers.
They were dispatched and ordered to siton the water and hold station over two

(45:05):
UFOs that were sitting on the seabed. Just picture that, six huge,
fully manned destroyer ships sitting out onthe sea keeping an eye on two UFOs
directly underneath them. These weren't scientificresearch boats or civilian boats. These were
the big guns, the biggest gunsin fact, why do you think that

(45:28):
is? According to Styles as insiders, the flotilla observed one of the UFOs
giving assistance to the other giving itrepair, and that the flotilla was ordered
as a recovery mission to get ahold of that sweet sweet alien technology.
But when divers went down to determinewhat would be needed for the recovery mission

(45:49):
to ascertain what they were dealing withand how to deal with it. The
divers saw that they were active.There was activity taking place on the seafloor
between the two UFOs, like oneUFO was lending assistance to the other.
The divers even claimed to have seenbiological activity like actual physical aliens. That's
when top military brass decided to changethe mission from recovery to observation only.

(46:16):
The destroyer flotilla sat over the submergedUFOs observing them for a week, when,
as the story goes, a Sovietsubmarine decided to violate the then twelve
mile international limit between the two countriesRussia and Canada in an attempt to make
contact with the UFOs. The powerfulUS and Canadian flotilla were ordered to show

(46:38):
challenge to these Soviet intruders, andas this confrontation was unfolding, both UFOs
leave the seabed where they'd been sittingand move quickly toward the Gulf of Maine,
where they shoot up from the seafloor, break the surface, and fly
away. Now, as crazy asall this sounds, this departure from the

(47:00):
coincides with the second major UFO sidingon October eleventh, nineteen sixty seven,
so seven days after the crash atshag Harbor of two UFOs sited in the
Gulf of Maine area by multiple witnessesfrom Shag Harbor to Yarmouth, Nova,
Scotia. Now, possibly even moreamazing is at the time in the Shelbourn

(47:22):
area where the secret Destroyer flotilla wasstationed. Above the two UFOs, there
was a top secret Canadian military basedisguised as an oceanographic institute. The name
of this secret facility was the CanadianForces Stationed Shelburn or CFS Shellburn, and

(47:42):
its purpose was to use underwater microphonesand magnetic detection devices to listen for Soviet
submarines in the Atlantic, and thissecret base, CFS Shellburn, could listen
to the entire Atlantic Ocean. Itsaid that their microphones belonging to CFS Shelburn

(48:02):
heard everything they heard the initial crashand submerging at shag Harbor. They heard
the two UFOs leave Shag Harbor andsituate themselves on the seabed off of Shelburn,
which is how they knew to getthe secret Destroyer flotilla out over to
the UFO's exact resting spot. Themicrophones heard the UFOs leave the Shelburn area

(48:25):
and head to the Gulf of Maine, and they likely even heard the two
UFOs break the surface at the Gulfof Maine as they headed off into the
sky towards god knows where. Now, if this is true, this is
just amazing. But that's the thing, no one knows if this is true
or not. I mean, yes, something did land or crash in Shag

(48:46):
Harbor on the night of October fourth, nineteen sixty seven, There's no question
about that. And yes, tonsof people saw this thing, including civilians,
a boat captain and his crew,the police, and pilots. Can't
forget that. We also heard afirst hand account in this episode, So
yes, something did happen, andthere's even a photograph of something. Just

(49:07):
check the show notes. And thatsomething coincides with the story told by Air
Canada flight three h five, theBlue Explosion. And there really was a
secret submarine detection facility a short distancefrom Shag Harbor. And yes, official
records do state that this was anactual unidentified flying object a UFO, and

(49:29):
exactly what that UFO was a plane, a satellite, space debris or an
alien craft is anyone's guess. Butthe rest of it, the flotilla of
destroyers, two UFOs, alien beings, a Russian sub All that is hearsay
with no documentation to back any ofit up. But man, I hope
it's true. What a story.Right now? Before we close this episode,

(49:54):
I just want to mention that overthe years, decades more like,
people have searched the seab at ShagHarbor numerous times looking for that one piece
of evidence that proved the world thatthis really was an alien craft that crashed.
Divers claimed to have found circular indentationsin the seafloor on top of which,

(50:15):
for some reason, no vegetation wouldgrow and no crustacean would crawl.
In Around nineteen eighty eight, aman named Gordon Fader, a local marine
geologist, scanned the seafloor with acertain type of radar can't remember what it
was called, and found a seriesof four circles or four round depressions in

(50:37):
the seafloor, an inconsistency for thesea bottom in Shag Harbor when compared to
the rest of the environment, andeach depression was roughly twenty one feet around.
They reminded Faighter of the markings leftby a drilling station, even though
no drilling station ever existed in ShagHarbor. Now. In twenty nineteen,

(51:00):
Celine and Fabian Cousteau Cousteau, grandchildrenof the late great oceanographer and conservationalist Jacques
Cousteau, one of my heroes,brought their television series Legends of the Deep
to Shag Harbor in hopes of findingevidence of a UFO on the seafloor,
or at the very least the fourmysterious circular impressions mapped by Gordon Fader in

(51:23):
nineteen eighty eight. Unfortunately, theCousteau's they didn't find either. The Cousteaus
believed that if the markings left bya UFO crash were there, or the
weird circular impressions were there, atsome time in the past, decades of
ocean currents eroded any evidence away andnow it's lost forever. But they don't

(51:47):
completely deny that a UFO could havecrashed there. It's a very interesting story.
That's what I got on the ShagHarbor UFO incident. I really do
you know if any of them filmsor anything like that has been made from
it, you know, I didn't. I honestly, tons of documentaries.
I feel sensationalized enough for like itmight be. I mean, that's sensationalized.

(52:10):
I mean I feel like it canbe sensationalized into like a film or
a TV series. Yeah, Idon't. I don't know if an actual
movie, you know, Hollywood moviewas made about this, I don't think
so. I didn't look for thatin particular. But plenty of documentaries,
some good, some terrible. Yeah, no, I bet a good I

(52:31):
would say, A good fountain ofinformation out there. Some of it you
have to dig for, especially thatthat second half when when the UFO submerged
and then went off to another restinglocation. Not a lot of information on
that, you really have to searchfor that. But lots of lots of
information about the actual Shag Harbor crashitself out there, but no one talks

(52:53):
about it. I don't know why. Fascinating story, great story. I
wonder if that's because the people ofNova Scotia and maybe therefore the country,
they're like, well, they didtalk about it that that that decade,
that year. It was talked about, and now we're over it where they're
over it. And I mean it'snot like this goes on periodically or anything.

(53:16):
It's not like that location is ahotbed for this activity. It was
that time, that day, rightthat night, right that night, right
October third, fourth, and butbut yeah, these these incidents not gonna
force you force you like forget them, honestly, which happens a lot with

(53:37):
other incidents too, because they happen, what what whatever it is and we
have to move on, Like whatare you gonna do? Wait for the
next one? Not live a lifewhile you do that? Not you know
what do you? Yeah, wecan't track them. We don't know what
they are. We don't know.We just don't know enough. All we
can do is marvel at the incidentsand just track them and log them as

(54:00):
we can. Yeah, but it'sa great story. I definitely didn't hear
of it. Yeah, yeah,yeah, great story. I can tell
you. Shag Harbor is a lotlike Roswell in that this fantastic incident completely
shaped the community, you know,the town. Yeah, you know,

(54:22):
they have their UFO festivals, theyembrace it. I wonder do they do
they have that landing platform there.Landing platform, No, they probably don't
you ever heard of a landing platformbeing made there for potentially other UFOs?
Oh, I know what you talkabout. No, nothing that I found

(54:43):
like that. No, no,no, I don't think Norm Smith would
deal with that. Well, I'msure it's not just up to him.
But yeah, so yeah, Idon't know. That's shag Harbor UFO incident.
Pretty amazing. Yeah, guys,let us not I you've heard of
it before. We'd like to know. And then what kind of like maybe

(55:04):
misconceptions you had on the story thatwe may be cleared up here, or
maybe you have additional information that wejust don't know. That would be interesting,
That would be cool. But obviouslyI'm less likely for that to happen.
But if it does happen, obviouslywe're welcoming. Otherwise, I don't
I don't have a lot else something. And then I just mean, I
don't have any questions or anything otherthan it is. There's not a question,

(55:30):
I guess as a remark, Butlike the difference in the countries respond
our next door neighbors write their responses, is that kind of gets to me.
It's just as surprising as seeing youknow, you're telling the story about
all these witnesses and accounts and pictures, and you know it's just as amazing,

(55:50):
just as amazing as the way theirgovernment or responding officers or whatever you
want to call it, air peopleresponding to this and compared to two hours,
Yeah, oh yeah, to thisday even more so, it is
astounding and it sucks, it does. But hopefully disclosures on the horizon,

(56:13):
right, we'll get it all.Who knows, But Canadon's a big place,
though it is. Yeah, yeah, they seem to be a lot
more lax or loose with their UFOreports and things. H they seemingly are.
I wonder if there are many othersSo there are not that you maybe
you may not know the number,but I wonder what other incidents have they

(56:37):
encountered. Oh there's tons, There'stons. I can't think of one off
the top of my head. Butcanad has had its line share of UFO
sightings for sure. Right, Iimagine they would have to not because of
the land they all, but they'realso next two hours and we get a
lot, so understands the reason thatthey should get a lot too, right,
Yeah, I mean just within wrappedin this Shag Harbor incident. A

(57:01):
week later, seven days later,off the Gulf of Maine, there was
another dual UFO sighting, which supposedlycoincides to them leaving the seabed right like
I mentioned in the in the storyhere. But so yeah, they've definitely
had their their fair share. Yeah. Yeah, and maybe one day we'll
research more. Yeah, and letus know what you thought of the Norman

(57:22):
Smith interview. That was the firstplace, Yes, that was, and
that cow it's uniquely tailored for ourshow. Yeah yeah. And he also
mentioned Randy Tucker, who's of Somewhereout There Radio. He's been on the
show before. So yeah, supersuper cool, something very unique for this
show. Yeah, man, goodjob, I love it. Awesome.

(57:44):
Well, if that's it, Oscar, will you fly us home? Yes,
but you hate flying I do.I hate UFOs too. I'll take
you on a ship. There wego. Mm hm h there we go.

(58:35):
Yeah. Week and a half ishweek week mm hmmm mm yeah.
Uh yeah. No. Today mybrother and my nephew came by to visit,
which has been a long time since. It was good, Like,
you know, he did his homeworkhere and stuff. We say pizza and

(58:57):
they saw the girls. Yeah,and they're great. I just cracked open.
I carved the punkin for them becausethey love pumpkins. Oh m hm,
so you carve like a jackal enternYeah, I mean, no shapes.
I just carved like ins and outsin the pumpkin, and so they
can climb around in there. Ohthat's stupid adorable. It is really ridiculously

(59:22):
adorable. And they love to eatthe seeds. So what I do is
I just like toast the seats abit and then give it to them.
Oh wow, and it's all overand that is cool. Yeah, it's
cool. Nice. Then containers shippingcontainers quadrupled or whatever the number after quadruple

(59:45):
is, I don't know, anddimpled yeah, quin oh good, quintupled
in price. If not more containersare coming over half half full, you
get them to the US ports,there's problems getting the products off the ships
because of shortage of longshoreman, problemsat customs. Then there's shortage of train,

(01:00:07):
cars, trucks, truck drivers,you name it. So it's it's
a real domino effect of it's there'sa problem in every sort of process between
someone clicking to order and getting thatto them. Yes, like from that
point to this point, it's areal fucking trial. Yeah, and there's

(01:00:30):
no end in sight. There's noend in sight. We're not going to
have product until probably March April Mayof twenty twenty two. Yeah, no,
wow, and no one's talking aboutit. Drive by a use a
car lot an auto dealership. Halfthe lot is empty because they can't get

(01:00:51):
cars in because there's no computer chipsto put in the cars. Like there
is a four dealership like a blockaway all right for me, the one
with the funny commercial, the golfMill forward. Oh, I remember,
it's right there. Yeah, it'slike a block away. What does that
look like? It does look emptier, But I never really look at it

(01:01:12):
anymore. I don't come from thatdirection anymore. That's why I don't look
at it as much. But thefew times that I have, I have
You're right, I have noticed thatthey have lesser cars. They usually put
their overflow across the street into theempty parking lots that no one uses in
the golf Mill center, the mall, because they have so much parking spaces
in the far edges that no oneuses except for like drug dealers. And

(01:01:35):
cops looking for speeders it so theyuse their overflow. I haven't seen overflow
there and since COVID, yeah see, you know, yeah, yeah,
it's it's a very real thing,and it's it's getting worse and I don't
know, I don't know. It'sit's I'm starting to think there's more to
it, there's some concerted effort todo something. But mm hmm. Yeah,

(01:02:02):
this is the kind of thing thatmakes us, that makes our I
don't want say profession, but ourpodcasts or our beliefs in or not believes
in conspiracies, but our talks aboutconspiracies a little more legit because it's like,
no one's gonna I'm not gonna blameanyone for saying they don't believe all
these conspiracies. Obviously, it's it'skind of unbelievable some of this stuff,

(01:02:23):
and I get it, but Ican't imagine. But what's even more unbelievable
is if someone comes to me andsays, there's no there is absolutely no
conspiracies out there ever, Right,Yeah, I agree, that's a good
point. Right, No such thing, no way you believe in, you
believe in none of them. Noneof them are true. None of them
whatsoever are true. No way,no way, impossible. That's way more.

(01:02:47):
That's way less likely than believing infive or something or a few of
them. You're right, especially theworld we're living in today, right,
Yeah, it's it's a strange place, strange time. Man. Yeah,
it is more and more every day, it seems, or at least more
is shown. Right. Yeah.So that's what's been up with me a

(01:03:12):
lot. And it's been it's beenrough. It's been rough. Okay,
we obviously it's not gonna be partof the main show. But I'm gonna
start with asking you. Oh no, yeah, I'm gonna start by asking
you before I ask about the movie, what blood pressure it's already going on.
How do you feel today about theending of the show? I know
we've talked about it before. Yeah, yeah, and I think I remember,

(01:03:36):
if I remember correctly, is thatyou have either calmed down from that
ending or have retrofittedly, like thinksomething else about it, you know.
I mean, I'm not angry aboutit anymore. I was at the time
for sure, just like everybody else, you were so invested in this show
and these characters, and you know, became a ritual to watch and then

(01:03:58):
to have it end like that wasjust it felt like a slap in the
face at the time, right,And I still think it's a it's a
shitty way to end the show.It's a piss poor way. Oh we're
gonna leave it up to the audience. No, fuck you, you're lazy.
That's that's the way I feel aboutit. But yeah, I'm over
it. I would never watch itagain. But oh I want to watch

(01:04:20):
it again. Okay, So Isaid, because I wasn't sure, because
I thought, I don't know ifyou change your mind or not. But
you haven't. But you're still not, Like you're not mad anymore, but
like you haven't changed your mind aboutthe ending, correct. I mean,
I think I have an opinion onwhat happened, Like I do believe he
got killed, you know. Imean, I don't think it's an opinion
at all. I don't think itleaves anything ambiguous. I think they'll die.

(01:04:42):
It's one hundred percent for sure.I don't see why people have were
confused by it in my opinion.Yeah, but yeah, I mean I
was with you on that day too, because I think we saw it together,
did did we We were at wewere at our place in oak Park.
Yeah, I went to the oakPark place a lot. I think
we saw it together, did we? Okay, I don't remember, but
I remember that we thought the samething, Like the I remember thinking the

(01:05:04):
same thing. I know you didtoo. So again, maybe that's why
I'm confusing it, but that thefucking cable went out or absolutely I literally
got up and checked the back ofthe television. Right, but then and
that was the same way. Butyou know, there's there's two to two
things with that, and one ofthem is that culturally, you know,

(01:05:26):
everyone claims a lot of people,critics, mainly critics and filmmakers, claim
that The Sopranos is the is whenthe golden age of cinema TV started,
Right, golden age of TV showsstarted and came out, and before that
TV shows were ship compared until theSopranos came. Right, That's how good
it was, right, And Iagree, it's a great fucking show.

(01:05:47):
Yeah, you know, I've sincewe watched the show once more and I
have the Blu rays. I'm gonnawatch it again that maybe maybe next year
or this year. I don't knowwhen I'll start because I have the race
and and when I we watched ityears later, but now it's been years
since then with a friend that wasshowing it to the for for the first

(01:06:08):
time. To her, I waslike noticing how much funny it was.
I'm like, oh my god,this is really funny and great and it's
fucking awesome. I found out thatmy second rewatched that the show is very
obvious. It's super obvious. There'snothing ambiguous as far as what's going to
happen at the end. Yeah,exactly, exactly, nothing ambiguous about it.
I saw it again, I waslike, it was so painfully obvious

(01:06:30):
that Jay Jay's eyes today will noticeit immediately. Really, yes, if
you've seen it for the first timetoday, you would still like, oh,
yeah, they're all dead. It'sa for Metal who's parking in the
front right, so A J twoyeah and yah yeah. So here's why

(01:06:51):
it's obvious. One And I don'tknow if you remember this, because again
we saw a lot of these episodestogether in that last season. There's a
deal that Tony does with Colombians.I think I don't remember some South American
cartel or group of criminals, andthey're talking like being not behind his back,
but they're talking in Spanish in frontof him in order for him not

(01:07:12):
to understand them, and I translatedit for you that day. I said,
holy shit. He said something aboutbumping him off, about doing some
hit on him or something. Hesaid something like that, you say it
like that, But he said,are we going to do that thing with
Tony soon? But he said itto his partner in Spanish, as Tony's
looking puzzly at him, like whatdid you say? I don't understand you,

(01:07:34):
you know, as they're finishing thisdeal, and I remember, and
again I have do we watch itagain because I don't remember the details anymore,
But I know that that involved Pauliand involved like that's Paullie's scheme or
plan or not or whatever. Andthat my my hypothesis, again not knowing

(01:07:56):
the details anymore, is that wasat the time that Pauli these guys to
kill Tony after this deal was madewith with whoever the big bad was at
the time, and that Paulie wastaking over because he was the only remaining
crew member. Oh my god,because still was dead. Everyone else is
dead, everyone's dead. By thatpoint, Bill was dead, so they

(01:08:18):
still got killed. When he gotshot. Remember, I don't, I
honestly don't. He got shot inthe last episode or the second to last
episode, I don't want to say. And then Paulie was the only remaining
one. He was having a lotof troubles with Tony and his leadership and
his bullshit, you know, thewhole thing with the mom, with the
whole thing with the church. Hewas constantly like fucking hating everyone and hating

(01:08:39):
how his life was in the shittyhouse and shit and kind of I think
he wanted more and I think heplanned this thing. That was my idea
anyway, but that's not you know, that's just a hypothesis. Now to
the ending, the second to thelast episode, Tony literally or was this
like, yeah, it was secondto the last episode. Uh, Tony
literally They do a flashback on earlierthat season where Tony and some guy talks

(01:09:00):
about how it feels, how howwhen you die it all goes to black?
Did they really they really said it? They literally they not only put
it in the season, but theyalso flashed back to it. And this
in the episode before the ending.Holy shit. Well, Tony mentions that
how it goes to black when nothinghappens just goes to black and you're just

(01:09:23):
gone, and then and then themovie and then the show ends that way.
It's so obvious that what makes Yeah, I don't remember any of that,
man, because we were watching it. We were just watching it too
closely. We were just watching ittoo closely in week by week, and
we were just not paying attention.I wasn't either back then. Wow,
I missed it. I completely missedit. Yeah. Well then if if

(01:09:48):
all that is true, then allof a sudden, the ending is completely
different. Yeah. Right, that'swhat I'm saying. You know, it's
pretty obvious too. And you knowwhich are the two goons that come in
after Tony into the restaurant? Y, You know that those two of the
once they're just waiting for them toall sit down ship. Maybe they're waiting
for Meadow and she takes too longand the just do it. You know.
Wow mm hmmm. So I wasn'tsure about the whole family. I

(01:10:10):
just thought Tony maybe, But that'shorrible, no, because I think you
were only one guy. I thinkis more obvious that it would be all
of them if if there were morethan one. Yeah. Yeah, And
I love the poly theory, likeI really had whenever we watch it.
But I've been having conversations with people. I wasn't just you that hated the

(01:10:32):
movie and then maybe you know,made them talk about the show and how
they hated the ending. I'm like, I'm like, it wasn't that bad,
guys. But anyway, so themovie, Oh God, what did
you want from the movie? Ihave asked my question to you, what
did you expect when before you hitplay? What did you I really thought
it was. I really thought itwas going to be the New Jersey crew

(01:10:54):
that we loved, right with thewith the series. I thought it was
going to be a New Jersey crewor origin story, seeing them all grow
up getting involved in That's also whatI wanted. That's what we all wanted.
You're right. I also did notexpect that. Yeah, and for
people to say, oh, wellyou should have known by many Saints Malta
Sante fuck off. No one expectedthat's what it was gonna be. I'm

(01:11:18):
sorry, some character that was randomlymentioned throughout the Soprano series, it was
gonna doesn't make sense, you know? They did? They did a dead
Wood movie right that were from theshow that never got finished. They did
a Deadwood movie. Years later,ten years, I think then the tenth
year anniversary of the show ending,they did a movie to like to put

(01:11:41):
to make a finale right now.If that movie involved like some father's side
character version of that, I wouldhave been pissed. But it wasn't.
They They included every motherfucker from theshow. It was about them, you
know, so like I get it, and I was with you, and
I think what I should have doneis that I should have read or seen

(01:12:03):
it. I should have read theplot synopsis before, or I should have
seen the trailer before, because thenI wouldn't have been And then I would
go into that movie knowing that it'snot about the crew, the loved crew
that we know. I mean,it's about some of them a little bit,
but not really a little bit,like they're like in the background.
Like I mean, it was fuckedup seeing Tony's mom, like, oh

(01:12:25):
my god, like, oh my, this is the beginning of the of
the headaches with the mother, youknow, and I she did a good
job over here for me. Youreminded me so much of that old oh
my, oh my gosh, shutup, Like I'm like, it's so
bullshit. I'm I can see whyTony needs fucking therapy. Yeah, yeah,
right, And they do a coupleof scenes with Tony, but like

(01:12:47):
it wasn't enough. You're right,I wanted more. And the thing is
that I don't know what they thoughtthey were trying to do with this,
because this movie, like it dependson the knowledge, It depends on you
knowing the Sopranos the show to workbecause they do a lot of shorthand they
don't have to explain. They lingeron characters that if this movie wasn't about

(01:13:08):
Sopranos, let's say it was justa period gangster movie in New Jersey,
Like they would have to explain alot more, or they wouldn't linger on
a character that we don't give ashit about because we don't know who Tony
or Paudier still is. Right,But like the fact that they did both
of those is like, you're right. It is like the worst version of
both worlds. Like you need theshow to watch the movie, but you

(01:13:28):
want a different movie in order toappreciate the show more. Yeah, good
way to put it. That's exactlyright. Yeah, So I ultimately I
ultimately agree with you. I don'tthink it was as bad as your text
threat. I wasn't that wasn't likethat me. My biggest problem was that
what in the fuck? I mean, forget Polish stroy Okay, forget Polish
story. There's nobody better like Okay, John Burenthal is Italian, he's not

(01:13:56):
Italian. But why the fuck isthat white guy June? Uncle June is
not that guy? Who? Whois that guy? You mean? Like,
what was the guy's name? Name? He's in like some Dominicchianese Genese
I think is who played Uncle June? Dominicanese? Oh no, I'm saying
in the in them and this movie? Oh yeah, no, no,
no, played him with some whiteguy? What it? What he was

(01:14:17):
in that vampire TV shows? WhatI know him from? Uh? Yes,
yes, with the boy he's alsofrom the House of Cards. Oh
okay, yeah, But like dominicChianese, he didn't have a son or
a grandson that could have played him. They they had to pull in this
guy they pulled in? Did theypulled in? Uh? You know Tony's

(01:14:39):
real son or whatever what's the name? Oh, to be him, right,
Michael or whatever? That worked andhe was a good actor. I
think he did a good job.But like there was forget sons, like,
there's really no Italian of them,Jesus Christ, there's so many.
They built bridges here. They can'tact. Of course, they can't act.
So I was thinking like that botheredme way more. I'm like,

(01:15:01):
what are you doing? Movie?Like, what is this? Yeah?
I didn't know that was Uncle June. Until you'll find them as racist when
they're just differently they're themselves or miscast. It's just so, I can't.
I just all I felt wrong,Yeah, exactly wrong. Paulie looked like
a fucking I don't even know whathe looked like. Oh Paulie, Oh
no, I think that was helooked almost like exactly like paul did you

(01:15:24):
think? So make a younger Pouliwith the suit, him giving a ship
about the suit and when they torturedthat guy and he still explores blood on
him. That's such a poly scene. I can see like an older Polly
going, yeah, I can seethat. Okay, how about good?
How about pussy? Yeah, pussywas bad. I don't know what that
was in two radiotas, What isit with the what is it with that?

(01:15:47):
I don't, I don't, Idon't. I mean, I feel
like maybe if I watched the show, are they gonna mention some twins in
the show? Right and there?I don't know what they did they mind
the show to get that information andthey're like, oh, well we mentioned
twins. Either there are hardcore fansout there, we gotta we gotta put
them in. Is that what theydid or because it's so it's a very

(01:16:11):
obscure fact because I didn't know,right, yes, Like it's a deep
cut, like the cut of afifteen year old show. You know,
I don't know if it works.I don't know. I was with you
on that. I don't get it. I mean, I like Realioda,
but like he's dead, like killfuck cast someone else. I don't know,
yeah, catch someone else. Iliterally thought something. I thought like

(01:16:33):
my stream skipped or you know,oh really something happened with the stream and
it just skipped ahead. Yeah uh, and I missed all the explanation.
But no, no, no,twin raaliotas. Yeah, I feel like
this, you know it would thismovie. I would have appreciated this movie
had we had already that movie ofthe crew going up and if we go

(01:16:56):
back more in time, like asecond one from after all that, like
what got them going what led tothem being the New Jersey Crew that would
eventually lead them into two thousands.Like that, that would have been cool,
But to start with this no,no, yeah, or maybe a
part two to this the many NewSaints of Newark more Saints of Newark,

(01:17:17):
I don't know. Yeah, takeit up from when when he did that
stupid pinky thing in the casket.Take it from there in the next movie.
Okay, I'm in okay, allright, yeah, yeah, I
don't know how don't feel about that. Actually, I don't like the I
don't know if I like their storydevice at all, because is Chris talking
to us beyond the great? What'sgoing on here? Like, I don't

(01:17:39):
know if I like their there theygot the actor to do it, but
like, yes, yeah, that'sthe way I took it. Chris is
talking to us from the future.Yeah, and he keeps from the future
I guess so, yeah, buthe's from a future where he's dead,
so yes, because he keeps talkingabout this guy who's gonna kill him and
he's like a teenager right now.He's like the ghost of Christmas future.

(01:18:01):
What the fuck is happening? Idon't know. Italian Christmas Future. I
don't know how I feel about that. And also, like one of the
best things about the show that theydid so good was the dream sequences.
Then we had no no dream sequencesin this one. It would have been
cool to see something like stick tothe bones of what made the show awesome,
you know, and make us revisitthat by putting a dream sequence,

(01:18:25):
and it would have been cool.Yeah. True, Again, it's more
of my opinion than that, Iguess, But yeah, man, I
don't know or or even give methe story of John Bernhal's character. He
was a maniac, a lunatic.That would have been a great story.
He did seem like a maniac,and every time he left the screen to
do some crazy thing, we justgot stuck in somehouse somewhere or something else,

(01:18:47):
you know. Yeah, yeah,you're right, I don't know.
And then just the way the moviewas put together, it was I think
I said this in my text,like it just seemed like in them scenes
forced together. It was. Itwas very strange, the way it just
flowed and moved, and I don'tknow, it was it was. It

(01:19:10):
was bad. Twenty minutes into it, I text Verio because he was watching
it like an hour before I did. He was like an hour ahead of
me when I started, So twentyminutes into it, I text him like
when does this thing get good?And he just rolle back. It doesn't
like oh no, and the wholelisten. You know New Jersey Riots.

(01:19:32):
I'm sure they were terrible. Maybethat's something we, you know, people
should be talking about and exploring andwhatever. But maybe nine as a pranos
fucking a movie. Yeah, I'mnot trying to be insensitive, but again,
it would have been awesome if itwas part of this larger scale like

(01:19:53):
sequels. Maybe like this, he'dbe this. This. This feels like
a Part two or another Part onemovie. It feels like we yeah,
they did the wrong background check.Yeah yeah. And maybe maybe Chase started
it and realized that it's saying like, tell me, tell me about al
Capone. I'm like, for that, we're gonna have to start with the
Romans. I'm like, what,No, No, tell me when he

(01:20:15):
was born? What do you whattho? How do you get to Chicago
first when the Indians had No?No, it's so you're so right,
No, I don't want to gothat far back. Just tell me about
al Capone so his mother. No, no, right, that's exactly what
it is. It. Yeah,you're right, I love it. Tell

(01:20:39):
me about al Capone. Well,the Indians. No, it was a
garbage dump. I don't give aship. Yeah about that? Do you
think do you think David Chase startedand then realized ship, I don't have
anything, and then just it washe had to finish. Well, here's
I don't know much about David Chase. I know that he is considered to

(01:21:00):
be extremely I mean, he's avery well writer. He's a great writer
obviously, but like and director andall that. But I don't know what's
up his thing. I don't knowwhat he thinks. I don't know if
he's if this is like immense pressurecoming out. But if he waited this
long and felt like he had astory and this was his story, then

(01:21:23):
he didn't really know his audience.Because I feel like a guy like that
who doesn't have to really make anything. I'm not saying he's super rich or
anything. I'm not sure. I'msure he's fine, but you know,
he's definitely not as prominent as heused to be. But like, it's
so so long time, it's sucha long time ago that people have let

(01:21:45):
go like you have with the Sopranosending, or have forgotten it, or
you know, saw it and lovedit, maybe whatever. But it's been
so long that I can't see whyhe would feel the need to make one
and make this. I don't know, was he getting pressure. I have
no idea the background in this movie, but I would love to find out
what what that is though. Yeah. One thing that I read in a

(01:22:06):
few different articles was that he wantedhe really wanted to do a movie about
the New Jersey Riots, the NewarkRiots. That that was that's what he
really wanted to do. Yeah,so it seems like he just kind of
spun in the Sopranos too, maybehelp fund his little passion project of the

(01:22:28):
Newark Riots. That I can see. I mean, that's that I can
see. You know. There's agreat example of this. Have you seen
ten Cloverfield Lane, Yes, gamemovie. I don't know, I feel
loved it, but I loved it. That's one with John Goodman in the
basement right in the Yes, Yeah, I liked it, and Mary Elizabeth
Wins said, And the movie's great. It's it's it's an actual sequel or

(01:22:53):
prequel whatever you want to call itto the Cloverfield you know, found footage,
horror movie whatever. That was Godzillamovie, right, And it wasn't
that. For the longest time,that script wasn't written to be a clover
Field movie. It was written assomething else, entirely, completely original,

(01:23:15):
different thing. They retrofitted a cloverField plot in there or whatever with the
ending in order to get funding tomake the movie. Oh see, famously.
So it was like a famous littlesuccess story. That's how they were
able to make the movie. Butthat was like a passion ending movie.

(01:23:38):
Really that got turned into a biggerhead huh. So I wonder if that's
what happened here. It must have. That's the only thing I can think
of. They go up to DavidChase and like, man, I want
to make the New York Riots.I'm like, no, it's a fucking
shit about the New Ork Riot.You may have it, right, we

(01:24:03):
have this month or you know,like you know the Python that and like
but like we know, but welove the Sopranos. You want to do
once you include them into the NewYork Riots, see what they were up
to at the time. We dothat you cause they have your new work
riots thing, and then he maylook at it and like, well,
I really want to do new newwork rights, right, but the history

(01:24:24):
goes too far back to actually includethe characters from the Sopranos in a meaningful
way, right, which is whatwe wanted like then. But they clearly
dominated the eighties more right, eightiesnineties. Yeah, and they're like,
oh, it's too far back.So I guess I could go further back
and talk about the Maltis Anti cuand all this shit, and that's where

(01:24:45):
that makes so much sense. Yeah, I can see that sad sad.
Yeah, and you know it soundslike I was like you, you know,
you didn't watch any trailers, youdidn't read synopsis or any think I
stared purposely away from it. Ididn't want to say pretty cleaning on that.
Yeah, I had faith, ifI had faith that I was going

(01:25:06):
to go in and love this,right, and then they have that shit
happened? Oh my lord? Nothing. Yeah, And I think I said
this in the text too, ButI think my favorite favorite part of the
movie was the foreshadowing with Christopher asa baby. All Right. I remember
mentioning that, Yeah, I actuallyhated that, did you really? I

(01:25:28):
was so on the nose. I'mlike, it was just like it's like
as dark Rader just says, youknow your father right, Like it just
felt so weird, Like I felttoo on the nows. I felt preachy.
I felt like, look, we'repart of that Soprano series. I
can totally see. I can seethat for sure. I felt off,
especially when that old lady, thegrandma wherever she was, she's like,

(01:25:49):
you know when babies. I'm like, bitch, you don't need to explain
it. Yeah, if they justdrop that part out, I would.
I would have been with you andlike, okay, that was cool,
Like the baby doesn't want to getnear to me, but you don't explain
it. What the fuck is wrongwith the old bag? So some fucking
old country shit. Well, what'sinteresting you mentioned the lady, the grandma
or whatever she was. Another becauseI read a lot about this movie,

(01:26:12):
I wanted to see what people werethinking, and one of the things I
said is that in Soprantic, Ivaguely remember this Tony would talk to doctor
Melfie about having a nightmare about ashadow woman, this shadowy woman who would
be in his dreams or nightmares.It would scare the ship, and everyone
assumed it was his mother, butthey're saying, in actuality, it was

(01:26:38):
that woman, that superstitious grandmother figure, whoever she was, that Tony was
really afraid of, and that's whoit was in his dreams. So maybe
that's why she actually had a speakingpart. You know. That's thumb tight.
No's okay again, it's like beforewith that other thing, you know,

(01:26:58):
like it's too obscure twin raeliotas ifit is a reference to something in
the show, Like you just referencedpart of the show from one of the
mouthy sessions. It stoops here.I don't remember that too, You're right,
Yeah, I didn't know it untilI read it. You know,
Yeah, I don't remember that,but hm, I'm vague vaguely, I
kind of remember the shadow lady.But anyway, that's what it was supposed

(01:27:25):
to be. Yeah, it justoverall didn't make sense. Nope, Nope.
I didn't know it was uncle Juneuntil someone actually called him June.
Yeah, until he fell, untilhe slipped on this on the on the
front of the funeral thing. Oh, I didn't know that because they mentioned
his name more at that point,and I was like, Oh that's him.

(01:27:45):
That was him the whole time,Like, okay, sure they probably
they've been calling him by his fullname or something, and I just fucking
missed it every time. Now,But oh that's him, and like the
little petty bitch just because he's laughingat you, gonna shoot him, like
I, I mean, that's that'strue though, that's a lot of that's
that happened a lot in Surpranos.All little slights get you killed. Yeah,

(01:28:06):
but that's also true in the Scorsesemovie. Basically mob movies happened a
lot. Yeah, I guess you'reright. What are my fucking clown?
I'm here to amuse you exactly.Yeah, Okay, I thought when he
did dress, like towards the endwhen he's in the pay payphone booth,
when he's in the thick glasses,the black glasses, got the little hat

(01:28:28):
on, he's wearing that kind ofcomfy looking overcoat, you know, he
did look I thought he kind oflooked like Uncle June at that point.
Hm. But all throughout terrible mostof that now he wasn't. Yeah,
yeah, it looks like the numbertwo right or something. Well, he
was in Sopranos wasn't Uncle June technicallythe leader of the New Jersey Crew.

(01:28:57):
Well he must have been a laterafter to kill Montetante. But like in
the movie, he's like, multi, it's not the number two. Oh
sorry, yes, yes, butnow in Sopranos, was he number one?
Or was he number two? Hewasn't number one at the start of
the show. He was too oldalready. But yeah, okay, it
was someone else that someone dies andthen something from happens in New York that
leads Tony to be the number one. If I remember, I'm getting remember

(01:29:21):
why I watch it? So yeah, I really should. They're good.
It's a good show. Saverio bingedit before the movie came out. Oh
he did, he did. Yeah, he watched all six seasons. Okay,
he doesn't have a hobbist huh yeah, Like, don't you work every
morning? It was like, I'mwatching Sopranos, don't you work? Okay,

(01:29:45):
So what do you think that heliked the show? Still? No,
he fucking hated it. Oh theshow. Yes, he liked the
show. Yeah, movie. No, hated it the movie. I get
what was her name, Filipina?She was she was cool? Oh the
Chris's girl or yeah, his father'sthe one that his father brought over from

(01:30:10):
Italy. Yeah she was pretty good. Yeah she was good. I liked
her. I didn't like how shegot fucking drowned that way, but also
like the mass pitch, don't tellhim anything. No, oh my god,
I do that. He knew thesecond. I knew the second when
she wiped before she said it.I'm like, good, dad, that's
your last speach right there. Yeah, like that, you're dad. This

(01:30:33):
fucking guy has too much to proveas he's like old school Italian bullshit.
He's gonna kill you, oh yourdad. Yeah, he's like, no
matter what it is, we'll getthrough it. I love you, I
love you. I slept with aharold you motherfucker. Yeah no, I
wasn't gonna let her get away withthat. Yeah yeah, just shem.

(01:30:57):
She must be from Sicily. Sorry, I know, I'm trying to be
good in case who use it forout takes? No, I know.
But they also mentioned the joke inthe movie too. They Yeah, they
do. They say something. They'rein a barbershop or some like group of
people and someone mentions like, Ihe aren't you from Sicily? Aren't you

(01:31:20):
an, I know they don't saythat that aren't you part black or something
like that, and they going no, no, those are only from Sicily.
I'm from northern He mentioned it like, oh, I think he's like,
yeah, I'm not done or something. Yeah. Yeah, Like even
when they used Italian words, itseemed just terribly forced or not enough.

(01:31:41):
No. Uh yeah, it's eitherterribly forced or just over emphasized that they
said it. I don't it wasno, didn't work. I agree,
and here in Raliota speak, Italianjust cut it out. Uh yeah,
was that. I don't know,I don't have a good bad year.
It was pretty bad. Yeah yeah, I mean he got I don't understand

(01:32:08):
some of this, Like Raalioda isfamous for being in in gangster movies,
particularly Good Fellas Right, Like,nearly all of his success comes from Gothellas
Right. Everything that he's enjoyed todayin jobs in movies has been from the
strength of Cathellos. Sure, AndI don't know why people forget this.
He's not Italian in that movie.He's half Italian at best, Irish.

(01:32:30):
He's mainly like he will never bea made guy, and he was always
a guy who had never killed eitherlike, why are everyone trying to force
feed leioda is something that he isn't. He was famous for something that he
isn't. Another great point. Yeah, I don't know what's going on with
that. Yeah, I couldn't waitto talk to you about it. Thanks

(01:32:54):
to this show. Now they're goingto make a Dickie multa Sante part two,
Dickie Lives. No, no,it's called Dicky's Revenge. Dicky's Revenge.
Oh god. And they're like,oh, oh, Uncle June said

(01:33:15):
that Tony doesn't have what it takesto be a football player. Oh my
god. It's such a throwback tothe Sopranos. I can't take it.
Or the beehive. Oh they didthe beehive scene. I don't give a
fuck. I don't give a fuckif he couldn't play football, or then
she got shot through the beehive,I don't care. I don't think it
was Uncle June that really deterred him. It was many the mother. Let's
face it, it was the mother. The mother was playing everything with him

(01:33:38):
with the football, even before weeven saw Tony. Like, my god,
this woman is so horrible. Yousee this in football, Tony.
Yeah, Ma, it's not foryou. Yeah, okay, ma,
he says, Oh, my momis fucking Mary Poppins compared to that one.

(01:34:00):
Every worst nightmare is Mary Poppins comparedto what that woman turns into.
Yes, that's true. And whenwhen Vera, when when my girl Vera
went to talk to the principal ofthe school, and the principal was telling
the story of what Tony told her. M M, did you think that

(01:34:21):
was going to take another turn?Didn't She set it up almost like the
mother did something wrong with Tony whileshe was in both with them. They
really set it up to almost seemlike it was going to go molestation,
but it didn't. So Loki highkey, I thought that that's still on

(01:34:44):
the table. But he's what Ithought of that, saying a good thing
you reminded me. I thought thatit is bringing that up. And I
don't know if it's because the timesright that people weren't aware of this kind
of thing generally or right away.When the teacher was talking about it,
she was talking about it of theprinciple. She was talking about it in

(01:35:05):
terms of a great memory that theyboth had. But with her face those
reactions, it felt like she wasworried about maybe being seen as someone that
did something wrong in that moment,which maybe makes me think that she did
do something. But the principal doesn'tknow what this memory is actually about.

(01:35:27):
You know, like they both misinterpretedwhat each other started. You know,
it felt it really felt weird andscene, and they never bring it back.
Really. I mean, she triesto be nice to Tony based on
that conversation, and obviously that failsimmediately because she's paranor asked she's fucking psychotic.
She's psychotic. Yeah, she needsthat medicine. Oh my god.
And oh, actually this scene Idid like when Dicky was killed and they're

(01:35:54):
at the funeral. This is likethe last scene she goes to one of
her friends. I guess the fearfor maker. She goes through one of
her friends and you know, theyfound a bottle of that drug and Dicky's
pocket. I'm like, ba,that was for you, but that's right,
and they're like, oh man,you never know about people. I'm
like, oh my god, thatwas cool. That was a cool little
touch. I like that. Oh, good point taken. You're right,

(01:36:17):
my base, that wasn't for him. Ah okay, I'm glad I wasn't
the only one that got that feel, that icky feel from that snow.
I got it, Okay. Ijust don't know how on purpose David Chase
wanted it to be, but itfelt like on purpose because again vera for
me, I had very strange reactionsto that, like, oh my god,

(01:36:38):
am I getting caught to something?You're you're absolutely right, and the
principle is like, oh no,it's like it's fair memory. Oh so
it wasn't about that, like okay, you know, wow wow. So
then I guess that would add awhole other layer to Tony's neurosis and whatever
condition he was his adiple complex.Yeah, oh there you go. Mm

(01:36:58):
hmm yeah, hmm Okay. Ilike the movie now, no, no,
no, no, but the movieis not like completely irredeewable. Yeah,
because the show runners when Sopranos wasgoing on, they really wanted to

(01:37:19):
keep the mother character the whole time, all seven seasons or six seasons whatever
it is. But they you know, she died in between seasons two and
three or three and four, theactors died, Yeah, and they didn't
want to recast her because she didsuch a great job. They killed her
off halfway, you know, inthe in the seasons. But like they

(01:37:41):
wanted their the initial plan was toalways have or be like the key and
the problem, right, the keyproblem for for Tony and psychosis and everything
that makes him that makes Tony Tony. They really wanted to leave that her,
leave her in it. I wasglad when she died because she's just
so odious that I just but inretrospect, yes, that is the best

(01:38:01):
foil for that character. It isliterally every yeah, everything that makes them
a bad person and all this andyou can see how it you know,
started with her, a lot ofit, so wow. Yeah, yeah,
they had to drop that, Iwould think. But yeah, that
was the thing. We should Weshould go on forever about this, can't
we very nearly can mm h Yeahyeah, okay,

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