Episode 150: The Kobe Cannibal

Episode Transcript
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(00:38):
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, andwelcome to the one hundred and fiftieth episode
of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast,So Damn Paranormal. I don't feel like
swearing when you say happy holidays,but it's my name is Jason Knight,
host of the show, and withme as always is Oscar Spector Happy Holidays,

(01:04):
the polite producer Extraordinary and podcast cohost, So Oscar. What has
been going on over this last month? I mean, not a lot,
unfortunately, nothing to report necessarily.I would say that one thing is that
I you know, this feels likethe one hundred and fifty first episode.

(01:27):
I don't know why. I'm justgonna have to bear with me on that
one. Guys, it just feelslike we're a number below where we are.
Okay, nothing, what's been goingon? And see not just getting
ready for holidays? I guess no, But for me, holidays mean work
means work for me, you know, not a whole lot of changes other

(01:48):
than it gets worse, just getsbusy on holidays. On my end,
you know, there's no there's notime off. Last time I enjoyed actual
holidays, I guess was when Ishould go to school and school time was
off, right, It's the timeand you could actually have the time off
and stuff. So not to beall downy Debbie Downey on it, I'm
just saying that. No, I'mkind of just been working and yeah,

(02:12):
like today, a little work,a little later. But yeah, it's
been an ok day, an okaytime, playing some games, watching some
movies, getting ready for the endof the year list. It's the craziest
time of the year for me forthat, Oh, the end of the
year. Top ten, that's right, yeah, top ten movies of the
year. Don't ask me. Ihave no idea. I wrote. I
wrote down, like you know,all the movies I watched, and I'm

(02:35):
like, I don't know how I'mgonna whittle this down. Yeah, it's
all right, it's gonna leave it. And that's been just chilling around.
Man. How about you kind ofthe same here, you know, just
busy, busy with work as always, but you know, having kids,
Yeah, I mean, we're inthat magical moment right before Christmas. Today
is their last day of school andthey're just so excited and it's really cool

(03:00):
to just sit back and take thatin as parents, because we don't enjoy
it that much anymore. It's alwaysvery busy and hectic, like you said,
but just seeing the look on thekids' faces and feeling that anticipation,
it's awesome. And you know,we're also planning vacation immediately after Christmas.
We're heading down to flow Rider todo some dolphins swimming and going to Disney

(03:24):
and all sorts of cool stuff.So we're really looking forward to that time
off of work, just being asa family. Are you planning on for
Christmas itself before you leave? Areyou planning on making something, baking something,
cooking something? Yeah? So ChristmasEve, my son he's in a
musical for CCD class that's religious educationclass for people who don't know. It's

(03:46):
to get him ready to make hisfirst Communion. He's playing a little one
of the three kings in that show. So we're really excited about that Christmas.
I believe he's the third. Idon't want to say it's like Baltazaar
or something like that. That's thelast right. I looked this up when
we first found out about it.I think it's like King Balthazar or something.

(04:10):
But when we come home, I'mmaking a nice uh veener schnitzel and
spetzel for for the family and mymom, which I do pretty good at,
I think. And then Christmas Dayit's just hectic, get up,
open gifts, go to the inlaws, come back home, cook a
dinner for my family. I'm notlooking forward to that one at all.

(04:30):
But your family party, just thejust having to go and have a Christmas
and then come home and create aChristmas later that night. It's gonna be
it's gonna be challenging. But hey, those are the holidays for adults.
Yeah. Yeah, but yeah,other than that, nothing, nothing else,
nothing else really to report. That'scool. Yeah, yeah, all

(04:54):
right. Oh, I guess Ishould have mentioned if you want to skip
the intro timestamp in the show notes. I forgot to mention that. Oh
yeah, it's fine, fine,it's Chris. I mean, we're we're
yeah, it's Christmas. It's beenhacked it We're a little lot of practice.
It feels that way anyway, Andand it frankly feels like I'm in
a groundhog Day scenario right now.I feel kind of like Bill Murray right

(05:17):
now. Actually, I think shouldwe mention it? Yeah, last night
Oscar and I were up very laterecording this exact same episode, and uh,
we get to the end of it. I think it went really well.
And we get to the end ofit and I realized I didn't hit

(05:38):
record. No, the lanscap wason the whole time. It's like,
it's like we go to It's likewe go to Martin Scorsese in nineteen ninety
making Goodfellas, and we do thatwonner that one shot through the cat,
through the whole, through the kitchen, glove right through the kitchen, and
radio nails it. Everyone's in agood mood. It's like the seventh time.

(06:00):
They all want to go to State, but they were just you know,
it's a good time. We makeit and the camera guy goes other
lenscap was on hold on exactly thesame, exactly the same, and Marty
is like, that was a perfectshot. How was it? Oh,
how do we tell them this?How do we tell them? Yeah,
so here we go Take two.Take two. So to your point,
a husker a little bit rusty,I guess being off the mics for so

(06:23):
long, I guess so right.I do want to mention really quickly that
we have received quite a bit offeedback on Instagram and Facebook, from listeners
who are are okay with the formatchange that we made. They understand that
it had to be done to keepthe quality of the show up, and
they were support. Supportive was theword I was looking for, So definitely

(06:46):
thank them for that. Yeah,that is super awesome. You know,
that reminds me of something else.Might had a feedback of a personal nature
for the show. Many personal meaningpeople that I know that actually listen to
the damn show. It's hard toYeah, family and French, sure,
but I trust me, when you'rea podcaster, they rarely have ever listened
to it. But the one afew that do really suggested has told me,

(07:11):
through two or three different different occasionsalready, like are you gonna make
because I mentioned that one idea ofmany shows ago this year, how maybe
I should make some of our showscurate them for for like a TikTok video
or something, because some of themcan't be translated into that, you know,
not not so much others, butsome do. And she was like,
are you gonna do that yet?You know, she's excited. I

(07:33):
want me to do it. I'mlike, I haven't started yet yet.
I don't know which one, butmaybe so and that's uh, that's not
just one. Two people told methat. Something asked me that about if
I'm doing that, and I'm like, I would be interested. It's just
that I know it's gonna be alot of work, and it's just it's
extra work that I don't need todo, so I'm not gonna rush it.

(07:53):
Well, it's good to know peopleare interested in that. That sort
of set up. It's cool,right exactly. So anyway, so I
mentioned that give them what they wantto, let them eat cake. Oh
is that a Marie Antoinette and something? Yes, eat your cake and listen
to the podcast too. Right,So how will they ever reach us today
if they even want time? Yes? So the easy number, of course,

(08:16):
no phone over right. The easiestway to contact the Supernatural Occurrent Studies
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(08:39):
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(09:03):
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supporting the podcast. Generally General isalso a podcast host. I want to
make sure and mention this. It'sthe Subconscious Realms podcast. Yeah, you

(09:28):
can find them on Spotify. Ifyou love conspiracy and aliens and cryptozoology and
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(09:48):
do the same. We need somelove on Spotify. You can reach the
podcast by calling a phone number.Hi Romance Romans. You can't, you
can't? Could you? Just?Is that for modell something? I go
ahead eight seven two five to twodie zero seven six seven that Chicago area

(10:11):
code eight seven two five two diedzero seven six seven. Leave us a
message, send us a text.We'll not awake enough to argue with you
on this one, Okay, notawait da, He's just gonna let it
go. Yeah, that's time.Don't get you said, folks. Yeah,
Now, before we go to breakOscar, I do just want to
mention this is a show about acannibal. This is not going to be

(10:35):
a pretty show. So I'm givingpeople fair warning right now. Stop eating,
don't do anything like that while you'relistening to this episode. Well interesting,
we're doing like cannibal. Huh?And first of all, did not
predict that? Did na see thatcoming? First of all? Secondly,
is it like a Christmas cannibal,like a like a guy who eight people

(10:56):
in Christmas? Maybe? Or isit a Santa Claus that went crazy one
time? Or is it a nono no, It's just not nothing related,
nothing fast, nothing festive at allat all other than I'm bringing some
depraved ship to our listeners for Christmas. Is it's like your revenge for having
to cook Christmas? Make Christmas intofood? The world will suffer, right

(11:18):
exactly, Okay, I'd be waringguys. So with that, let's take
a quick break. Let's do it. Listeners, welcome back to the show.

(11:39):
Well, the lights are turned downlow, the ceremonial candle is lit,
and the drinks are flowing. Let'sstart this show. So is Si
Sagawa, also known as the Kobecannibal or just pang like a sudden overwhelming

(12:00):
urge or feeling like hunger pangs,is a Japanese murderer, necro file,
and cannibal, a nice little trifectaof fuckery who killed an Aida woman in
Paris, France in nineteen eighty one. Now I say it's he. Sagawa
is a Japanese murderer, necrophile andcannibal instead of was, because this guy,

(12:24):
despite his absolutely appalling crime, isalive and not so well in the
suburbs of Tokyo today, hobbling alongas a free man, and believe it
or not, for a time,it's he. Sagawa even gained minor celebrity
status, cult like status based exclusivelyon the terrible crimes he committed. An

(12:48):
oscar. He even did a stintin porn but I'm getting ahead of myself.
Now. I just want to againissue a warning. This is a
pretty nasty episode. I'm calling ita red Band episode, so listeners beware.
The thing Sagawa did to his victimare atrocious acts born in hell,

(13:11):
and the fact that Sadowa got offwith little more than a slap on the
wrist is just unbelievable. Actually,it's hard to believe this story actually happened,
that this is a true story,but it is. Now. Be
sure to check the show notes becausewe've left a lot of pictures that coincide
with this episode. Pictures of IssySagawa, pictures of his victim, and

(13:33):
some crime scene photos and Oscar.I really had some trouble with these crime
scene photos. I went back andforth with myself trying to decide if I
should include them, because it wasn'tlike picking your favorite out no, no,
no favorites in this No. Ijust went back and forth trying to

(13:54):
decide if I should even put himin there, because they do exist,
unfortunately I've seen them. Decided todo is include some of the crime scene
photos, but not all. I'mnot going to include photos of the victim
herself or more like what remained ofthe victim after Sagawa was done with her.
The photographs of Sagawa's handiwork are sofucking brutal. Just if you really

(14:18):
want to see them, use Google. Unfortunately, they're all too easy to
find, but be warned, youcan't un see them now. Issi Sagawa
was born on April twenty sixth,nineteen forty nine, in Kobe, Japan,
on the southern side of the islandof Hanshu. Now astute listeners might

(14:39):
recognize the island of Hanshu because onthe northwestern side of the island, about
a five hour drive from Kobe,lies the notorious Aokigahara Forest, which we
covered in episode one hundred and fortyeight. Yeah not too long ago,
right, that's two episodes ago.What yep, yep? Now is he
Sagawa? His crimes have nothing todo with aoki Gihara Forest, Like he

(15:03):
didn't kill there or anything. ButSagawa once told the documentary film crew from
Vice dot Com that Aokigahara has breathtakingscenery and that if he could drive,
he would go there and kill himself. So our cannibal Sagawa was well aware
of Aokikihara, the suicide Forest,and the legends surrounding it. I just

(15:26):
thought that was a nice little tiein to our Aokikihara episode, you know,
Oh yeah, for sure. Allright, So, like I said,
is He Saga the Kobe Cannibal wasborn on April twenty sixth, nineteen
forty nine in Kobe, Japan,Hence the Kobe Cannibal. Now as a
child, is He Sagawa was veryunhealthy. He was born premature, and

(15:50):
it said that as a newborn,he was so small that he could fit
in the palm of his father's hand. Could you imagine a kid being that
small? I can. Actually Iwas a premie. You were a premium.
Oh yeah, like all these years, I had no idea. I
never mentioned that. I mean,it's not like I opened up high a
mosca was a premie. I meanto try for that to come out,

(16:12):
you know what I mean, youhave to plan. There's no topic of
prem anyway. Whatever I was,and I heard stories like my father would
put me in the inside pocket ofhis jacket in the winter. Oh my
god, is that adorable. Imean, I can only imagine. I've
never seen a picture. And theyalso would put me in shoe boxes.

(16:33):
I want to ask her in ashoebox. No, no, you don't.
Apparently we're very expensive and unlimited.Apparently unlimited type and fragile, I
would assume, probably quite fragile.I didn't, I didn't call. I
caught him my mom. A lotof problems, but I wasn't like.
It wasn't like a Preemi with allthese other complications. There were some,
I'm sure, but nothing to worryabout that that Dy've told me. But

(16:56):
I was just I was a fewweeks or a month. Maybe I don't
know. Ah, Okay, Ilearned something new every day. I did
not know that. Yep. SoI'm like this guy basically Oscar and the
Cannibal, one of the same,right one saying we're basically that's how it
starts. That's first sign, firstsign. Oh god, So we're gonna

(17:18):
get a lot of hate mail frompeople who were born premature. We are
not because I'm one. It's likeit's like if I'm Hispanic, I can
make Hispanic jokes. That's the sameway I can make Preema jokes. Damn,
a whole new world just opened up. The whole huge joke, said
our cannibal is the he was premature. But not only was he premature,
he was also born with something calledenteritis, a disease of the small intestine.

(17:44):
Now common side effects of enterritis arediarrhea, vomiting, loss of appetite,
and fever. It's a lot likefood poisoning. Actually, Now in
adults and to writis can be treatedfairly easily with lots of rest and lots
of fluid to prevent the hydration.I've had food poisoning a few times.
It was really bad and I wantedto die, but in a day or

(18:06):
so I was over it and onmy way right. However, in newborns,
especially when premature, enteritis could bevery dangerous, even fatal. Not
eating, not gaining weight, vomiting, diarrhea, temperature fluctuations, intestinal perforations,
and blood infections are all potential sideeffects of infant and enteritis. Now

(18:30):
with Issi, he received potassium andchloride and saline injections and he was cured
of the enteritis. But at theearly age of two, Issi Sagawa contracted
Japanese encephalitis, a very dangerous viralbrain infection and the most prevalent and significant
Mosquito born viral encephalitis of man.Japanese encephalitis targets the central nervous system,

(18:56):
and its clinical side effects are fever, headache, vomiting, seizures, men
ingeal irritation or the irritation of themembranes that cover the brain and spinal cord,
and interestingly, abnormal behavior and alteredconsciousness. Life long effects of Japanese
encephalitis include deafness, weakness on oneside of the body, and uncontrollable emotions.

(19:22):
Very interesting, really, huh Yeah? Now, Apparently for Issy,
his Japanese encephalitis was so severe thathe almost died from it, and both
childhood illnesses, the enteritis and theencephalitis, resulted in Issy being incredibly short,
thin, weak, sickly, andwithdrawn for the rest of his life.

(19:45):
These traits haunted him. In fact, as a full grown adult when
he committed his heinous act. IsiSagawa stood under five feet tall four foot
nine inches according to most sources,not the imposing monster you might think he
was considering what he did. Infact is he described himself as looking more

(20:06):
like a little monkey than a human. But Issi, despite his physical shortcomings,
he was intelligent, he did greatin school, earning a master's degree,
and he was working on his PhDwhen he committed his cannibal crimes.
This guy had a thirst for knowledge, especially literature. And just so you

(20:26):
know, listeners, there's going tobe a lot of unintended puns in this
episode. Thirst for literature. You'vebeen warned now. As far as his
family is concerned, and this willbe important later, is said how his
family was affluent, they had moneyis He's father, Akira, was the

(20:47):
president of Karita Water Industries, andIssy's grandfather had been editor for the Ashi
Shimbung, one of the four largestnewspapers in Japan. Generational wealth right now.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a lotof information on Issy's mother. Most
articles just stating that she had thistendency of being what's known as a dragon

(21:08):
mother, overprotective, overbearing, andstrict, all with good intentions, of
course, but a huge bite inthe ass nonetheless see pun. Yeah,
a lot of hard to digestic.A lot of what I read about Issy's
mother talked about how she would forcefeed her infant son in hopes of fattening

(21:30):
them up to make them healthy.Even here in the States, there was
a time when it was thought thata fat kid was a healthy kid,
and such was the case with IS'smother. Yeah, I've heard those things,
like it's like when you hear thatin medieval times are not that long
ago, maybe less than that.It would be like no, well no,

(21:51):
I remember now and that movie SpencerI saw, they did this thing
where like they weighed the royal familywhen they come in for Christmas week or
again, and they were expected togain a certain amount of pounds. That
would mean that you honorably like enjoyedthe food like they so they would weigh
you on the way out, andthen the hopes that you were there would
be like an extra five to threepounds whatever they wanted. Yeah, that

(22:15):
was like a common thing back then. Yeah, the fat, chubby,
healthy baby, right, I meanthat was that was the thing. Yeah.
Yeah, so with with Izzy's mother. According to Izzy, this this
force feeding, her obsession with foodechoing health, actually helped fuel his cannibalistic
desires and really over the years,Iss he has given numerous reasons as to

(22:37):
why he developed this unnatural, allconsuming urge to eat flesh, an urge
he says that began to develop whenhe was just in first grade when a
male's when a male classmates exposed milkywhite thigh made Issy think that looks delicious.
Those are Issy's works, not mine. Some early shit though, yeah,

(23:02):
really really early. Yeah. SoIssy recalls his mother's force feeding,
and he also recalls this game hisuncle would play with Issy and his younger
brother June, during which his unclewould dress up as a monster while Issy
and his younger brother June played asknights, and the little knights would fight
the monster, and if the kidslost, the monster would place the children

(23:23):
literally into a large pot for stewingand eating as punishment for losing the make
believe battle. Now, this gamewas intended to be fun, innocent,
a little rough role playing, youknow, rough house role playing between uncle
and children. The uncle meant nothingbad by this, but for Issy,
the thought of eating human flesh,even at a young age, was fascinating

(23:48):
and it would stick with them,consume him pun for the rest of his
life. Yeah, and not tomention that when you combine all these things,
like you know, the the verynature of having a human stew but
as a fun activity, like youassociate fun with it, you know,
you know what I'm saying like it'splayful, it's not whatever, and then
yeah, I mean, yeah,I can see now. He also says

(24:12):
that as a child, he lovedfairy tales about people being eaten, and
he especially loved the story of Hanseland Gretel being drawn to the cannibalistic witch.
Right, the witch like to fattenup kids and then she'd eat them.
Loved it, He loved this.And you know, here's let's think
about this for a second. Isn'tit interesting, even terrifying to think about

(24:37):
how much power adults, parents ouruncles in this case, have over children
and how they develop, even ifwe don't realize it. Those little things
we do as adults are little isms, or the games we play, the
books we read, the words andphrases we use, completely innocent things.
How those things could be easily misconstruedand twisted in such a way that they

(24:59):
can could negatively impact a little developingbrain forever. I mean, look at
Issy in the monster game, thefairy tales, his mother's feeding. None
of these things were done with badintentions. Yet look what Issy remembers and
the feelings those actions stirred in himeven as a child, and how he
turned out. I'm no child psychologist, but man, I guess we never

(25:22):
really know how much we're fucking upour kids scared. No, Nope,
you'll never know either. Some stuffmost people, most parents will never know,
like they won't have these signs likeoh my kids eating people. I
know where I fucked up. Likeit's more that's clearcut. You can go
back and like red flag there,okay, red flag there. Oh yeah,
that eighth birthday. Of course Icould I forget. I could I

(25:45):
forget that day. But but this, you know, like most of the
most people don't know, like howthey're fucking them up, Like it's right
that one thing you said because youwere just annoyed and was off hand,
but it's forever embedded in that child'sbrain. In the adults side, yes,
absolutely, And as a parent,that terrifies me. You know,
right, you don't know, youprobably already instilled them with shad that they

(26:07):
you rather not, but no doubt, no control, You had no way
to know how it happened. Right, Yeah, it'll come out in therapy
in like thirty years, you know, and your deathbed they'll tell you mag
with that one fucking time that yeah, it is terrifying. It's a little
terrifying anyway. Is. He alsotalks about the media and its representation of

(26:29):
Western women for contributing to his buddingcannibalistic fantasies. Oh Hollywood, huh,
Yeah, the media always portraying Westernwomen is healthy, vibrant, tall,
voluptuous, fit, beautiful, exactlyeverything everything is He Sagawa wasn't in his
mind, and he's probably right,sickly creepy. Is he could never land

(26:55):
a woman like that, a Westerngoddess, a woman with which he could
develop the kind of physical intimacy thatcould temper, maybe even completely douse his
cannibal desires. So is he decidedthat the only way he could have a
beautiful woman was to eat her.And with that, for Issi Sagawa,

(27:15):
cannibalism and sexual desire became dangerously mixedone and the same. To give an
example of how cannibalism and sex mixedinto a single monstrous urge, here's a
quote from Issy normalizing his desire toconsume flesh. Quote. It's simply a

(27:36):
fetish. For example, if anormal man fancied a girl, he'd naturally
feel desire to see her as oftenas possible to be close to her,
to smell her and kiss her.Right to me, eating is just an
extension of that. Frankly, Ican't fathom why everyone doesn't feel this urge
to eat, to consume other people. End quote. Frankly, I can't

(28:00):
understand why someone would purposely break oneof society's most deep rooted taboos eating another
human. But hey, that's justme. I mean I have that's the
same issue with other things that arecompletely normal. Like I don't know why
this, why they want this?Why would why would this type want this?
Exactly every time? But it's likehe treats it like that, like

(28:21):
not just like a fetish, butalmost like like a preference. It's like
like on his dating profile he wantsthe little box that says Cannibal like he
wants it. He doesn't he wantsin normal life like that. That's how
he's talking about it. That's noton Plenty of Fish. You can't check
that is that still on which Idon't know. I have no idea it's
wipe right for Cannibal. I don'tknow if the fuck's going on wipe right.

(28:41):
So there's a lot of stuff goingon here, right, we have
it's these severe childhood ailments. Wehave this idea of eating consuming equals health
games where the loser was cooked andeaten cannibal like fairy tales in the media's
portrayal of Western women. The questionwas he asked, was is he Sagawa's

(29:02):
obsession with eating human flesh created?Was his environment to blame? Or was
is he Sagawa born a cannibal?Was there something in the Sagawa DNA that
pretty much guaranteed is he would bethe ultimate sexual deviant? Now, of
course I don't have the answer,and neither does is he. He doesn't
know why he turned out the wayhe did, nor did the shrink.

(29:25):
Is he went to see at theage of fifteen, to whom he confessed
his urge to eat women. Hewanted to understand it, but the shrink
pretty much just ignored him and senthim on his way. After which is
he sank even deeper into himself andinto his fantasies. It's the whole nature
verse nurtured thing. Right, wasis he made a candle? Or was

(29:45):
he born a cannibal? And onething I can tell you is that if
he looks back at his childhood fondly. He says that his parents loved him
deeply and raised him lovingly. Hiswords, he never mentions anything specifically unusual
or dark happening to him as achild that might have triggered such a dark
obsession within him. And at thetime in Japan, talking openly about sex

(30:08):
was taboo, so is he neverheard his parents talk about it. They
never even mentioned the word sex.Unfortunately, the secrecy surrounding sex left is
the unprepared for changes that come withgrowing older. For example, when he
got his first direction, he thoughtsomething was wrong with them. Then he
was sick. He didn't know aboutmasturbation or even how to masturbate. He

(30:30):
had desires as every growing boy does, totally normal. He just didn't know
how to safely satisfy them, sohe let a dog satisfy them. Use
your imagination on that one. Yeah, but it's funny how he relates them
positively, Like how many how manytheorycillers would look back into the childhood,

(30:51):
whether or not they wanted to admitit to themselves is very negative. It's
very bad or or absence maybe,or like they focus on the one ad
time in their famili's life versus youknow, maybe other good parts, you
know, but this guy is likestrangely more open and kind of the nicest

(31:11):
cannibal. I don't know, he'svery the nicest cannible, you know,
like he's just like, it's justme, guys, bro, this is
me, this is who I am. I want to chew you, you
know, like I don't know,like it just seems over cool. I
don't know, not cool. It'snot cool, but he seems cool about
it. Like it's just it's weird, like to hear I kind of all

(31:32):
be like you, My life wasyeah, perfectly. Parents were great.
They raised me. Never you neverput those two together. So you know.
The strange thing here is, yeah, he let a dog satisfy him,
you know. But and that's whenis he says his sexual desires began
to distort, you know, afterthis dog experience, they started twisting.

(31:52):
See, parents, talk to yourkids about sex, all of it.
Don't let them figure it out ontheir own, or else they're going to
grow up to eat someone. I'mkidding, of course, but I think
it's important kids know what to expect. Those feelings, desires, the bodily
changes are all normal, and mostimportantly, they need to know the safest
way to deal with those things.Ignoring isn't the answer, right, I'm

(32:15):
off my soapbox. But still,in Issi's case, I have a really
hard time making the connection between himletting a dog satisfy him to fucking full
blown murdered necrophilia and cannibalism. Ijust can't see that leap. How does
that leap come in? Now here'ssomething to think about, a little bit

(32:35):
of ooho. Hold on a minute. Information. Remember I mentioned very briefly
that Issy had a younger brother namedJune. Yeah, June. Well,
as it turns out, June isa little more than fucked up in the
old sex department too. You see, June grew up to be a hardcore
masochist. The only way he canachieve pleasure is through his own extreme pain.

(32:58):
To get off, he does shitlike dab himself, burn himself,
or wrap himself in barbed wire,those little razors tearing at his flesh making
him bleed. Yeah, like noman's land. You know that's what they
put between right, Yeah, onthe d m Z, right on the
DMZ. Now to June, thisthis is ecstasy. I swear to god,

(33:19):
It's like the fucking hell Raiser familyover here. But it's the same
thing with June Sagawa. He doesn'thave the slightest idea why he turned out
the way he did. Are wegonna give them names? Like he'll raise
their names. There's the this girlor this guy. There's a pinhead,
of course, there's there's so manyof them you can't give him names.
Yeah, Muncher and Monchy, right, and I'm sure flesh terror. I

(33:45):
don't know's it's like the creepy darkversion of the Christmas reindeer names. You
know, there's our Christmas tiant herewant I'm looking for one desperately and I
found one finally. You know,the thing with with June makes a little
more sense, not to me personally, I'm just saying that the masochism thing,

(34:06):
there's a lot of that, alot more of that, a lot
more openness about that today than obviouslyback then. But but you know that
adding that to with the nature oflike the repressed culture that they were in
makes sense that he would be thatextreme to himself with the with the bark
wire like you said, so likeit's like, yeah, nowadays, it's

(34:27):
like there's safer ways for sure,not permanent damage kind of ways that people
find that's really interesting to read.But like, yeah, it's more common
now, it's always been common,but like it's where you come from originally.
Like that makes it either extreme badfor you or not or not or
maybe not so bad for you,depending with him, I think it is

(34:49):
pretty bad, but that's extreme.Yeah anyway, No, but I mean,
what are the chances, right,one brother killed and aid a woman,
and the other can't come unless he'san extreme pain nature nurture, right.
I just thought the fact that hisbrother also developed something abnormal was incredibly
interesting. Okay, so if he'swalking around, he's going to school doing

(35:13):
his weird little thing. He actuallywinds up attaining a master's degree in English
literature at a university in Tokyo andnobody knows it. But all the while,
his urges to consume are just growing, and it's He's beast just couldn't
be contained anymore. It was timeto finally fulfill his ultimate dark desire.

(35:34):
You see, is he had becomeabsolutely obsessed with eating a Nordic or German
woman, tall, white, blondehair, blue eyes, just the epitome
of female physical perfection, right,white meat, white meat exactly. And
it's while he's in Tokyo studying atuniversity that a beautiful, tall German woman

(35:59):
catches his eyes. Actually, itwas her white thighs that really grabbed Issy's
attention. And that was it.She'd be the one. Is he would
show her how much he loved herby consuming her. But not Oliver.
Is He just wanted to slice offa piece of her butt to eat.

(36:20):
That was it. Couldn't he justhave that little taste of creamy white butt
meat now? One day, Isyfollowed the woman home, and he stalked
her for a time, watching herthrough her first floor apartment's windows. Undoubtedly,
Issy's thoughts would have caused the devilto blush as he stood there,
salivating on the other side of thewindow pane, watching his meal move about

(36:45):
and sleeping naked on the night.Is he decided to make his move.
He waited until the women went tobed, and then he snuck into her
apartment. His plan was to hitthe woman over the head with an umbrella,
knock her out, not kill her, just knock her out. Then
he would grab a knife from herkitchen and secure the meat he was after.

(37:07):
Is he slowly snuck towards the woman'sbed. He loomed over her,
but he accidentally bumped into her withhis knee. The woman jumped up,
screamed ah, and jumped out ofbed and shoved these hes bitch ass down
to the floor. It's only fournines. He fled, but he was

(37:30):
soon arrested and charged with attempted rape, the police completely unaware of is He's
true intentions. Now is He Sigawawas never charged for this attempted rape because
his wealthy father Akira, paid thewoman off. He bribed her just to
go away, and she did.Okay, I see that. I'll imagine.

(37:52):
Yeah, I was gonna say that. I didn't want to spoil that
part of the story because I knewyou were being serious. But like I
just lot of funny things the wholetime, like like an umbrella, yeah,
yep, that was yeah. Ithink that was his own words.
And then when you were when youwere like talking about how he was salivating,
it's talking her and shit, I'mimagining them with those sum those rows

(38:15):
things, but they's sharpened the kniveslike he's getting oh, like the old
the barbers, old barbs, well, the chef uses to two different metal
prongs. I don't know what they'recalled. Okay, I'm sorry. And
he does that king, king,king, you know, before cutting into
the meat. I'm like, that'swhat I'm imagining. While you're talking,
I'm like, I'm like, thisis a cartoon villain. Sorry. When

(38:38):
when I was scripting that part,you know who I had in my mind,
the wolf from the Tom and Jerrycartoons. That's a good one.
That's very good one. And they'reboth are on the same size. Yeah.
Now, so, so the fathercame in, bribed the woman and
she did, she went away,and he wasn't charged. Now, imagine
what would have happened if is hewas charged? Would he have done time

(39:01):
and gotten the help he clearly desperatelyneeded. Would he have ever gone to
France? Would his victim still bealive? Who knows? But the father
offering the bribe? Bad move,bad bad move. Now, in April
twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven,when he was twenty eight years old,

(39:22):
is he Sagawa left Tokyo and headedto Paris. Whether he left on his
own accord or it was his fatherencouraging him to go away, either to
let things calm down, or fromthe embarrassment of having a son that was
a rapist waiting to happen, orboth. I'm not sure, but either
way, Paris is where is hewould become the cannibal he always wanted to

(39:43):
be, was obligated to be,as he put it, obligated. Now
in Paris Is he became a studentat Sorbonne University, working on a PhD
in comparative literature. Dork, it'shere at the end. Oh, that's
a very that's a very uh bougieschool. It is a bougie school,

(40:04):
and it just seems like a bougiemajor, you know. But it's here
at the university that Issy would meethis victim. After an exhaustive run of
bringing prostitutes home to his apartment almostevery night with the very real intention of
killing and eating them. Fortunately,Is he chickened out each time. He

(40:24):
just couldn't go through with it.That's when he set his sights on a
beautiful twenty five year old Dutch womanand fellow student named Renee harteveldt Is.
He befriended Renee and the two spentquite a bit of time together. She
ate dinner at as his apartment anumber of times, and at one of

(40:44):
these little dinner dates at Isy's apartment, is he actually tried to kill Renee
when she wasn't looking, but thegun he intended to use jammed, so
he gave up for the evening.Wow. Still, he slowly built her
trust, and you can say thatis he and Rene became pretty good friends.
All the while, Renee had absolutelyno idea about Issy's true intentions for

(41:07):
the relationship, or that she hadalready narrowly escaped death once. So on
the night of June eleventh, nineteeneighty one, Issi Sagawa once again invited
Renee heart developed up to his apartmentfor dinner and some schoolwork. He lied
and told Renee that one of hisprofessors wanted some German poetry recorded. That

(41:28):
was the pretext. Is he usedto get Renee to his apartment that night,
that and dinner, and poor Reneedidn't suspect a thing. Issy chose
the poetry. Renee took a seatat Issy's desk and began reciting the poetry
into a recorder. Her back wasto Issy, as Issy was smiling and
talking to her from behind. Unbeknownstto Renee, he grabbed a twenty two

(41:52):
caliber long rifle. He took aimand pulled the trigger and shot Renee right
in the back of the head,close to the Really, she never saw
it come in. And that's probablya good thing. Well yeah, I
mean I guess. Oh man,Okay, go ahead tell you that now
if he claims that. For afew seconds after being shot, Renee kept

(42:14):
talking, but then she eventually collapsedonto the desk and then fell to the
ground along with the chair shoes sittingon is. He placed a towel under
her head and then undressed her.And here's where we're going to get into
red band territory. If you're easilyoffended or have a weak stomach, please
do yourself a favor skip ahead afew minutes. Why are you still here's

(42:36):
my question. Why what are youstill doing here? Right? Because this
gets really ugly listeners, Okay,I better not get any hate mail because
I'm giving you fair warning. Thisnext part is bad. After stripping Renee
naked, is he had sex withher corpse, and then he began to
feed on her. He had itall planned out where he would start eating,

(42:58):
and he took pictures of the entireprocess. Us and the pictures are
fucking disgusting. He started with herbutt because to Issy that meat looked most
delicious. It had to be theright cheek, though not the left,
because the right cheek is further awayfrom the heart and would therefore bleed less.
Okay, obviously this isn't true.Is he had no idea how the

(43:19):
body works? It doesn't sound true. But if he said he wanted less
blood because blood frightens him, cancannibals even be afraid of blood? I
don't know. Does he have thatPhobieah, there's a phobia with that right
called something that. Yeah, I'mone hundred percent sure there is, I
just don't know the name of it. Yeah, that it never came out
and explicitly said he had a phobiaof blood. That was his own words.

(43:43):
I just I'm afraid of blood.I didn't want it. What it's
so weird, Like, first,I'm glad that he wasn't born that's tall
and muscular, and I'm glad becauseI imagine he would be worse. The
story will go longer, maybe withother things, but like it's so weird.
It's so weird. Everything about himis just so weird. Yeah,

(44:04):
he comes, he's like he comesby his he comes by his sins,
so honestly, I don't know whatto say. And then but he has
weird I know, it's like Idon't know, It's like I really love
bowling, but I can't stand uh, the sound of pins clacking right or
like people. I don't know people, but ah, it's so weird.
Yeah, yeah, I'm afraid ofblood. It had to be the right

(44:28):
cheek because that was farthest from theheart. Yeah, sure, now is
He tried to just bite right intoRenee's butt, but he quickly realized that
the flesh is just too hard tobite into. Oh yeah, it hurt
his little jaw. Is. Hedecided to try a small fruit knife,
and even that didn't work, sohe gives up and heads to the market

(44:49):
to purchase a real knife, kindof like a curved butcher knife. And
of course it works. Is heslices through the cheek and immediately he's repulsed.
Instead of finding bright red meat likehe thought he'd find, he found
what he described as a yellow Indiancorn like substance. Instead, it's the
fat that he's seeing. Oh isall we looked like damn my button.

(45:13):
My Yeah, it's that description isjust so gross. Yeah, very very
grafic. He's got to cut muchdeeper to get to the red meat that
he desires. And in a documentaryI watched if he said he doesn't remember
if when he got to that meathe cut off a piece of that red
meat or he just ripped it outwith his fingers. Doesn't matter, I
guess, because he got the meathe wanted and he ate it. He

(45:37):
said it tasted like a nice roastedpork. I'm never eating pork chops again,
and I love pork chops. Iate it last night and fucked this
guy. From there. He continuedto cut and to eat. Some of
the meat he ate raw. Somehe cooked, like one of Rene's breasts,
which he said swelled up while itwas being cooked, and when he

(46:00):
tried to eat it, it wasway too greasy, which he didn't like,
so he threw it away. Andsome of the meat he ate seasoned
with salt and mustard. He saidthe meat was best this way, cooked
and seasoned just right with the saltand mustard. Rene's nose, her nose,

(46:20):
part of her lip, her wholeright thigh, nearly all of her
left thigh. I mean we're talkingdown to the bone, nothing left,
Both of her breasts gone, andof course the number he did on her
butt, and there's more. Andthis is the thing, like you said,
asking, this guy's not ashamed orafraid to talk about what he did,
no matter how disgusting or fucked upand depraved it was now well to

(46:45):
him, it isn't. That's thewhole thing is disgusting. He cut out
and tried to eat renees anus,but it smelled bed, so he fried
it up and tried again, butit still smelled bed, so he threw
it away. He tried to eatthe clitterists right off the body, but
he couldn't do it because it stretchedlike rubber. So again he cut it

(47:06):
out, fried it up, andpopped it into his mouth. It was
delicious, he said, it tastedsweet. He masturbated with one of Renee's
severed hands. He played with theirintestines, and took hold of her bladder
in her womb. Nothing was leftundisturbed. Everything was violated. For three
days, Issy feasted on and desecratedRenee, and whatever meat he didn't eat

(47:31):
the police would later find stacked upin Issy's refrigerator. Now, as I
said, I was selective on whatphotos I included in the show notes,
but one thing I did include isa black and white photograph showing how Issy
laid out on paper plates a lotof the meat he acquired from Renee,

(47:52):
about fifteen pounds in total. Andall I can say is that if you
see this picture and you don't alreadyknow what you're looking at, pieces of
a human, you'd probably look atthe picture and think, oh, nice
spread. We got a bunch ofsteaks over here, some nice ham over
air, maybe some chicken breast.But no, it's none of that.
It's a person. I mean,we are bags of an infernal meal.

(48:16):
Now, after Rene's body became toospoiled for Issy to enjoy, June is
really hot in Paris and there's noair conditioning. You could literally smell that
sentence. He chopped her up inhis ba Yeah, after he was done
with her. He chopped her upin his bathroom, removing her head,
arms, and legs from the torso, and he placed the pieces into two

(48:39):
suitcases. Is He then called acab and requested to be brought to a
park near the university he attended.When the cab driver showed up at Isy's
apartment. He helped Issy with thesuitcases. Remember this is a small little
guy. Right. When the driverwent to help Issy with the bags,
he commented how heavy the bags were, and he jokingly asked if if he

(49:01):
had a body in them? Awkwardis He said no, the bags were
filled with books. So the cabbrought him to the park and off Izy
went into the park with his bags. Now we know Issy's weak, right,
We've said that a bunch of times. So here he is walking through
the park struggling with these big suitcases. Mind you, it's light outside.

(49:22):
People literally saw this strange little manfirst struggling with and then dumping his suitcases
by a lake. We're not talkingabout a criminal mastermind here, listeners.
After if he dumped the suitcases bythe lake, he was too exhausted to
push them into the lake, sohe kind of left him there. And

(49:43):
then he stopped and he watched thesunset over the lake. He saw an
old man walking with a child,all these beautiful sunset colors, and he
just kind of stood there taking itall in while he was mesmerized by the
scenery. A stranger, a mancame up behind him, curious about the
suitcases, and the man asked allthese yells, to which Issy said no.

(50:07):
Now, if this he said theywere in fact his, the man
likely would have left the suitcases aloneand the rest of this story might have
been completely different. But because ifhe claimed they weren't his, the man
of course opened the suitcase right andinside he found bloody bed sheets. The
man yelled out murderer and in response, is he just walked away? Wait,

(50:30):
as is Shakespeare in the park.Yes, okay, he just walks
away. Now the police were calledand a call for witnesses was put out,
and quickly the cab driver stepped forwardand said, yeah, I picked
up a weird little Japanese guy carryingsuitcases, and I picked him up from
here in my words, not thecab drivers, but pretty much that's how

(50:51):
it went down. Obviously, itdidn't take the police long to find Izzy,
and just four days later he wasarrested. Out he spent two years
in a French prison awaiting trial.During this time he was analyzed by three
different psychologists and they all deemed himcriminally insane. When is he finally went
in front of a French judge tobe tried. The judge declared him legally

(51:15):
insane and unfit to stand trial.All the charges were dropped and he was
to be held indefinitely in a Frenchmental institution. But before his treatment could
even begin, the French public wentcrazy because this monster was being held in
their country and being supported on theirdying. Remember this was huge news in

(51:36):
Paris Is. He's face plastered allacross newspapers and in the media detailing every
little nasty piece of his crime.Basically, the French people had spoken.
They were not happy about Issy beingin their country, so he was deported
back to Japan. Right. There'salso some background talk about Issy's father stepping

(51:57):
in and seriously greasing some palms inorder to get his son back. Yeah,
in order to get his son backhome. But whatever the case is,
he was sent back to Japan,where he was remanded to a mental
hospital in Tokyo. Now, Japaneseauthorities had basically made up their minds that
Issy was not criminally insane. Hewas evil, sure, but not insane.

(52:19):
Instead, they believed he suffered froma personality disorder, and because the
charges were dropped in France, IsThe's court documents were sealed, including information
gathered from the psychiatrist, and thereforethe records could not be released to Japanese
authorities, so they had no choicebut to let Issi Sagawa free, so
again without receiving any treatment or help. After just fifteen months in the Tokyo

(52:45):
hospital, on August twelfth, nineteeneighty six, Isi Sagawa checked himself out
of the hospital and he's been afree man ever since. Just yeah,
oh man, just barely three yearstime for killing, raping and eating a
woman. Sweet lady. Justice musthave been on vacation. Talk about injustice,

(53:05):
right, And almost as soon ashe checked himself out of the hospital,
that's when the media started calling.You see, the heinousness of Issy's
crimes made international news. Everyone wantedto know who the little Japanese cannibal was
and how he was allowed to gofree. So his stature was probably the
main of famous too. The factthat he looks probably harmless to a lot

(53:28):
of people, right so is hecapitalized on his newfound infamy as the Kobe
Cannibal. He traveled around doing thelecture circuit and the talk show circuit,
mesmerizing audiences with stories about his urgesand his crimes, both in great detail.
He's been interviewed countless times and hasbeen featured in numerous documentaries. Some

(53:52):
of the documentary titles are Cannibal Superstarand The Cannibal That Walked Free, Excuse
Me for Living? And my favoriteinterview with a cannibal, Excuse Me for
Living? As like really funny tome? Fuck, I mean, you
can't make this ship up. Youknow. He's a He's a prolific author.

(54:13):
He's written twenty books, a lotof them detailing firsthand his crime crimes.
For a while, he enjoyed,I'll get this the privilege of being
a restaurant critic, and he wrotefood reviews for a popular Japanese magazine called
SPA. I'm guessing vegan restaurants right, Oh, of course I've left some

(54:35):
publicity photos from is his time asa foodie in the show notes completely tasteless
stuff. Pun a cannibal getting paidto do food reviews. Doesn't it make
it any weirder than that? Thatis so that is that is a mark
of like man, that's like,you can't put that in a fiction setting.
No one will believe you. Itwill be like this is too ridiculous.

(54:57):
You can't put you can't put thisin that movie, you can't write
this in this book. It's tooridiculous. But it happened to no one
will believe it exactly. So doesit get any weirder? For yes,
For of course it does. Hewas paid to reenact the Little Red riding
Hood story on filming or he playedthe wolf? Of course? Oh yeah,
And I've seen excerts. I've seenexcerts from this little film. It's

(55:21):
it's horrible. It's just he's ina wolf costume. It's ridiculous. He
was paid to eat raw meat onfilm, the meats, juices, the
blood just dripping down his face.Is he? Sagawa even has a short
run had a short run as aporn star, and it's reported I haven't
seen the films, but it's reportedthat is he would fake biting his female

(55:44):
co stars while he reenacted scenes fromhis actual crime. What kind of twisted
shit is that? No clue now? In an excellent Vice documentary on Isy
Sagawa, they featured a woman thatstarred in a porn with Izzy and her
reaction after she's told and shown.Remember, is he photographed his crimes?

(56:07):
After she was told and shown whatis he had done by is he himself
after they had sex? I meantalk about exploitation. Yeah, this poor
what it was really uncomfortable to see. Yeah, that's that sounds really bad
and like it sounds like it.I'm sure it's still done today. But
one of those things that like whichis so normalized probably back then. Yeah,

(56:28):
you know what I'm saying, Likeit's probably like a very common common
thing, especially because you go downinto the more gray areas of society like
pornography, Like, yeah, Iboth can see it and like it's so
fucked up to hear it though,Yeah, yeah, and they show you
this poor woman was so clearly shakenand visibly upset for having just fucked a
literal monster, right, And isHe's done a lot of art. He

(56:52):
claims to have a manager that sellshis paintings internationally, and I gotta say
he is quite the artist. Alot of his paintings are actually really good.
You can find him online check themout. Really an Oscar, You'll
like this one. Is He publishedhis own grotesque manga book featuring pictures that
he drew of the crimes he committed. Now I did check this out.

(57:14):
It's really gross shit. And ofcourse I left some snippets of is He's
manga in the show notes, Oscar, what did you think of the manga?
I mean I didn't read any ofthem, obvious, any buyer or
anything. I'm not going to either. Usually manga, I have to I
have to like the art style,and I don't like this kind of style.
I don't thing. Yeah, soyou've seen but you've seen the pictures.
Yes, I've seen pictures. Yeah. I mean, I'm not God,

(57:35):
I'm not a fan. But thatobviously the material and wait in the
fact that you know where the materialsfrom definitely adds to the yes, novelty
of it. Absolutely a different kindof pun for you now. Thankfully,
eventually, the media hype surrounding theKobe Cannibal died out, or more like
dried up. Is He lost bothof his parents in two thousand and five,

(57:58):
which hit him incredibly hard. Andafter the no natural oh in the
same the air wow, yeah,oh wow, Okay, And after their
deaths, is he paid off allof his parents' creditors and then he just
kind of slipped away into nothingness.In twenty thirteen, he suffered a cerebral
infraction which left him with permanent nervoussystem damage. And today is he's seventy

(58:21):
two years old, living alone somewherein the suburbs of Tokyo, and he's
quite ill. It's reported that healso suffers from diabetes, and that he
has had two heart attacks in theyear twenty fifteen. Today is he has
no job, no friends, nomoney, hardly any publicity, and the

(58:42):
only one that ever shows up anymoreis his freaky brother June June and the
odd caregiver here and there. He'snow basically a man waiting to die.
And it's it's really unclear if ishe is truly finished with his flesh eating
obsession, even though he is oldand quite infirm. I mean, it's
highly unlikely he could ever pull somethinglike that off again what he did to

(59:06):
Renee, but it's not without wanting. In an article published on all That's
Interesting dot Com in August twenty twentyone, so just a few months ago,
is he said, quote the desireto eat people becomes so intense in
and around June when women start wearingless and showing more skin. Now keep

(59:27):
in mind this is August twenty twentyone. The quote goes on, quote,
just today, I saw a girlwith a really nice dairy air on
my way to the train station.When I see things like that, I
think about wanting to eat someone againbefore I die. What I'm saying is,
I can't bear the thought of leavingthis life without ever tasting that dairy
air that I saw this morning orher thighs. I want to eat them

(59:50):
again while I'm alive, so thatcould at least be satisfied when I die.
End quote. See, there's noshred of remorse here. He's completely
he opened and honest. I mean, it makes sense that it's tracks with
everything he said before. Yeah,And I guess you got to respect that
just a little bit in his honesty. I don't know. I mean I
do because I mean, I mean, I'm not saying yeah. It's one

(01:00:14):
of those weird things when people say, like, I agree with anything a
bad person does, but like heis, he has never not been forthcoming.
It's so weird. You know,I have to say something positive about
that, you know. Yeah,And to this day is he Sagawa has
never really shown any significant remorse forkilling and eating Renee Heart developed his friend

(01:00:37):
right one time, he did saythat the only thing he was really sorry
for was not being able to eatRenee while she was actually still alive.
Really, so he wanted to belike more vicious about it, like because
the live is you know, it'slike when you said before, like,
yeah, you know he raped there, but I mean he was it was
not clearly actually, so he didn't. I mean, it's raping a corpse,

(01:00:58):
but you know, technically it's not. And there's a big difference.
Like I really rather not the victimfeel I would rather not them go through
it at all. But you know, it's it wasn't kind of nicer or
not nice, but nicer that shedidn't feel any of it, you know,
thank god. But I mean hewanted her alive though, right,
And maybe maybe the fact that theybonded, right, maybe it leads to

(01:01:22):
him not its harder to kill ordo something to a live than than death.
I don't know. Maybe I thinkI think to imagining his ultimate thing
was to eat living meat, right, living at that flesh still alive.
You know, he never got theultimate thing he wanted, apparently not high
maybe the ultimate bite, the ultimatemeal. Mm hmm. Now to his

(01:01:46):
own demise Cicago, Sigago went onrecord tauntingly, smugly saying, quote,
I would like to invite any womanwho wants to kill me to step forward,
beautiful women only, That would bethe ideal way for me to die.
Maybe they could shoot me up withmorphine so they don't feel any pain.
Although I guess pain is part ofthe pleasure. Dying instantly is boring,

(01:02:09):
so I want to savor the processof being killed. An alternative would
be to drowned in female saliva.Wouldn't it be wonderful to be covered all
over in women's spit? If Icould die drowning in it, that would
be my ultimate dream come true.I'm a cowardly man who killed another person,
yet I can't face killing myself,So I guess dying at the hands

(01:02:31):
of a woman would be my wayto redemption. End quote. It kind
of sounds like it would be,though, although I would say, then,
maybe have a family member of thevictim kill him instead of any woman.
But whatever, what a weird there'sno way to describe it. I
mean, he's so like, it'sso it's beyond honest. He's like,

(01:02:53):
I fucked up. I should Ishould revenge should be taken on me.
Guys, this is my offer.What who does that? I mean,
again, weird kudos I'm giving him. I don't want to. I'm just
saying I don't support this, butdamn so weird. And for me,
the saddest thing about this whole story, this whole unbelievable story, is that

(01:03:15):
this poor innocent young woman, ReneeHart developed she gets totally lost in the
Sawa circus. God, yeah,everyone, every victim like that happens there.
Yeah, there's hardly any mention ofher online at all, outside of
being Issy's victim and the horrendous crimescene photos. There's no mention of her
family, her hopes, her dreams. I can't even begin to imagine what

(01:03:38):
her family went through. Nothing,there's nothing. She's totally overshadowed by this
creepy little monster, totally used andthrown away literally for this dickhead's pleasure.
That's how she's become. That's herlegacy, and it's a fucking shame.
Yeah, for sure. Finally,I'll end this episode with yet another quote

(01:03:58):
from Issy himself, telling you thisclown is so quotable. He's the Winston
Churchill of cannibals. Cannibals. Youknow how in chu Jow he's like so
quught away He's got like fifty quotesa day about when when he was in
power. I'm like, yeah,sorry, yeah, So this quote is
from that Vice documentary I mentioned earlier. Quote. Sometimes I wonder why I

(01:04:19):
did such a horrible thing. Maybeit's because I came from another planet or
another dimension and I accidentally fell toEarth like a meteorite, disguised as a
baby crying on the street. Mymother walked by and took pity on me.
I must have come from a placeof cannibals, and I'm the only
one of my kind who exists onthis planet. End quote. Yeah,

(01:04:46):
what do we need to heat?I mean the whole alien thing? Or
there you know a place full ofcannibals. I mean in nature there are
that too, and insects especially otherthings too. They have been known to
doing that. Dude, even like, no, it wasn't no, I
almost got that wrong. I'm gladI didn't mention the animal, But there
are others that do that, andthey have done that either to survive or

(01:05:10):
because they didn't want the kid.It could be deformed, there's so many
reasons why that happens nature, andthat's the way he treats it. It's
like nature, it really is.And this what makes me feel like it
is not so much nurture. It'sjust that nurture didn't stop it. That's
the problem. Nature didn't probably enhancedit accidentally and did not stop it.
Did not know the science, didnot imagine this could ever happen. But
I feel it's like it's always beennature. So it was born wanting this,

(01:05:32):
like the way you're born gay oryou're born whatever, you know,
Like it's not a choice, youknow. So is there a going on
that? No, because I don'thave the answer, R But I tend
to lean more towards nature as well. But what does that mean? Does
that mean there's a fucking cannibal gene? I don't think it works that way.
It works the same way alcoholism canbe translke can be genetic, you

(01:05:55):
know what I'm saying, Like,I don't know if this is gene,
but we know this is not right, where like alcoholism and family and history
can be passed down and can bemore susceptible future, right, So like
that, I think it's that Ithink it's that, you know, addiction,
but a different type, whatever differencethat is between a cannibal and alcohol.
This is this guy has the otherone into the letter or the former.

(01:06:17):
What about his brother June? SoI mean this goes I mean it's
probably fits not more in hand inhand about this this family in general maybe,
And you add the repression, andyou add the fact that you know,
no psychologists until it's way too lateand there's no help. There's no
talk about it at all because ofrepression and times and we had all this

(01:06:38):
stuff and probably they were cloistered andsheltered when they shouldn't have been. There's
life is not throwing enough fucking curveballsat him to figure things. I don't
know what I'm just saying. Itseems like nurture didn't help at all,
It's my point. And you know, the life didn't do it for him,
and but I mean they still cameout like I'm pretty sure June doesn't
hurt anybody with his own thing.That's the whole point here is himself.
But like it's like I'm sure thatif there's a way to do it like

(01:07:03):
honestly and as forthcoming as possible.He will do that. He would approach
a woman and ask, can Ieat you for a while? I just
he knows that will never happen.Yeah, it's just a weird, honest
murderer. Such a strange story,isn't it. Yeah, it's a sad
story too, disgusting, sad,strange, all the above. So I

(01:07:24):
want to ask, have you everthought of eating a person? No?
No, I have not. YeahI haven't either. It's never like a
real thing. Would you eat aperson? Yeah, so it always comes
up, you know when you thinkabout Like I've had girlfriends ask that too,
and when they get weird. Mygirlfriends get weird. If I were

(01:07:45):
stocked, if I were stuck ina mountain something, would you eat me?
I'll be like, yeah, I'mgonna meet you. Things like that,
you know, I don't know.Girlfriends ask me the way things.
But in general, yeah, youthink of the Donner Party, I understand
what they went through. You thinkof that soccer team I think it was
or Rugby. Sorry, yeah,I understand. I understand for sure.
There's a there's a few, morethan a few. I was the guy

(01:08:11):
who did the Raven stories that thatinvolves cannibalism, you know, as a
labs resort. You know, soit's not uncommon. But like what I
in those situations, I would anextreme So in extreme life threatening situations,
you would have no problem eating abit, No problem, I mean I
would it would be morally problems,No, it would be problem, but
like I have to do it,okay, So you would have a moral

(01:08:33):
objection to it, but you knowyou have to give this to survive.
I'm sure it'll be gross too.Yeah, I can't imagine it. I
mean the way he described him.You know, what's the name? See,
this is bad. I forgot aname, Renee, him describing how
Renee tasted good and bad. I'mlike, yeah, I don't know.

(01:08:53):
If I make a palette of it, I don't know. I don't think
I'll have a review over my crewmateor whatever I'm in whatever situation, but
like, yeah, I mean Iwould eat See for me, I don't
know it because I've had friends askedthis before, we've played this game before,
would you, And I think forme, it would come down to

(01:09:14):
where I'm at in life, Likeif I'm an eighty year old man and
I got half a foot in thegrave, anyway. Hey, I would
lay down and die before eating aperson. I'd go to the Pearly Gates
with a clear conscience knowing that Ididn't eat a motherfucker. I'm safe,
right. But if I'm my agenow and I have a wife and young
kids that you have to go backto and I have to go back to,

(01:09:36):
I would see myself, yes,partaking in Yeah. But don't you
think that the Pearly Gates have bylawsto a lot for that in the emergencies.
I don't know. I think theywould wagh. I mean maybe they
would wait at that point. Idon't know. I don't have to do
anything. I mean, okay,that's a different question. That would be.
That's my thinking as of right now. You know, if I'm if

(01:09:57):
I'm old and I'm dying anyway,I'm going clean. I'm just laying down
and die. But if I'm ifI got stuff going on, you need
to get back to my family,Let's do it. I do it.
Yeah. I mean for me,it's like it's about myself. So I
want to live or not. Youknow, I'm not saying it's fun,
but like I want to live,and chances are like in the extreme situations,

(01:10:21):
you would, even if you doit stupidly and you fail, you
would do what you can to stayalive. Like any dog, if it's
dying, it will defend itself beforegetting killed. You know. Like it's
like that, Like I would killprobably the biggest guy too, so he
won't kill me. Well you've reallythought about this, No, I'm just
saying that's in this situation. I'mI've always been the smaller budgy your guys,

(01:10:45):
So I'm like, I'm not gonnatake chances, but no, big
fucking but take him out first,established dominance and eat the most out of
one person. There you go.See, I'm trying to save for but
I don't have to kill the nextperson. We'll get saved before the you
know. That's saying, gotta thinkabout it. It's interesting. You know,
hopefully, God God willing we neverhave to experience this. Yeah,

(01:11:10):
you know, it's interesting to thinkabout. It's very right. When people
die of thirst and or hunger,it is usually because you're a prisoner of
war or in prison of general orwhatever, kidnapped in some way, you're
shackled by some serial killer or like, or you're on the desert or you're
by yourself, or you're destitute.In some fashion, you're by yourself.
Though it's rare to be by yourselfand starving. I mean it's right to

(01:11:30):
be with people. Sorry and starvingand stuck with people. It's like dinner
party situation. Well, you know, it's very you win the lottery before
that happens, right, basically whatI'm saying. Yeah, Yeah, it's
a fun story, interesting story.I like how it short and sweet and
not I don't mean that in apunny way. Yeah, it was nice.

(01:11:50):
I gotta tell you, there wasa few times writing this script that
I literally got a little sick thinkingabout how am I gonna phrase this,
how Im'm gonna write this, rewritingsentence, you know, about certain things
he did, and it kind ofmade me nauseous. Man. And a
few nights ago, we were doingit even though it's ice cold out.
I stole barbecue on the back deckand we had a couple different people over,

(01:12:12):
and I had different cuts of meatson a tray. I had some
filets, I had a ribbi,I had some pork chops, and you
know, because I can never cooka single fucking meal here at my house,
because everyone eats something different. Andthat's just the kind of guy I
am. Make picky. That's verypicky, very picky, And that's the
type of guy and father I amwhere I'll make everyone their individual dinner.
So I had this whole tray ofmeat, you know, the filets and

(01:12:32):
the ribbi still had blood kind ofat the bottom of the plate that I
had them all on, and I'mtonging them onto the grill. And I
did get nauseous looking at that meatand thinking about because I've just been thinking
nothing about is he Sigala for thelast couple of weeks doing this script.
And I did get I made myselfnauseous, Like I looked at that meat,

(01:12:53):
and I thought of that picture whichyou could see in the notes,
the one I called the infernal meal. That's all I can think about,
man, And I didn't want toeat it anymore. Yeah, I can
understand that. So anyway, listen, a happy holiday, Merry Christmas.
Listeners. On that note, havea fun meal with your family. Maybe

(01:13:15):
you want to go vegan this year, I don't know, but not.
We hope you enjoyed the episode andwe will catch you in the new year.
Oh yeah, and the New Yearsbetter anyway, on the flip side
of this year, I'll see youthat Hello, Hello, how are you?

(01:14:01):
Why are you laughing? I'm stillin shock. I'm still in disbelief.
Do I look that bad in themorning, my morning? I know
you've had a whole day already,but like, goddamn, but dude,
I literally think it's been years sinceI've actually seen you in the sunlight.
It's so exaggerating, all right onHalloween, bitch, Oh true, true,

(01:14:24):
sure, yeah, you're right,it does feel that way. I
just feel like our friendship is exclusivelya night friendship. Yeah, oh yeah.
It's like, uh, it's like, you know, you hear stories.
I mean, I'm sure you hadthese because you're you were delinquent when
you have like friends that do drugsa lot, or you're connect with drugs,
like you see them you like,you never see them are in school,

(01:14:45):
You'll never see them like in thedaytime or with your parents. You're
just gonna see those fuckers at nightat some house party, right pretty much
in the daytime they look like paleversions of themselves. You're a vampire.
H ah okay, oh my god, m hm. So unfortunately again,

(01:15:06):
I'm under a time crunch. Igotta be done for Nico. Yes,
yes, of course, let's justget fine, don't do it. Let's
get a sip and a vpe mmhmm about my emergency big mug, Christmas
smug. That's like huge, Ohdude, if you use the smaller ones,

(01:15:32):
but then I just refill them.But like, no, I don't
have to feel all right, let'sdo this in five recording. Yes,
man, Okay, look do Isound gaggy? No? No, no,
you look very vibrant. You lookvery awake that it's all front lying

(01:15:57):
to me, ready to rape theworld. I don't put don't put in
the optics beat the world? Whatcould he mean? What is he tendler
the world? What's so bad?And word the world? What did he
say? Everyone's wonning? Why wouldhe beat that? Why would be you

(01:16:24):
know that's that's that's how that wouldgo. You know, sometimes some things
are beat and you're like, whatwas the bad word in that part?
You know you have noticed that inmovies and you're like, what what do
you say? Fuck? Was itfuck? It didn't sound like it was
fuck? And then like you couldtell, I'm like, what was it?
What? Did he say fuck?Like, did you say, oh,
they say the C word. You'relike trying to figure it out.

(01:16:45):
You know what drives me nuts aboutmovies everything? And I want to I
want to find out why this is. If people are talking on the phone
in movies, they never say goodbye. Did you ever notice that ever?
Yeah, yeah, it's because mostof them. It's because most movies ninety
percent of movies and American movies aremade in LA And you're the way you're

(01:17:06):
talking is that it's midwestern nice.You think you really think that's what it
is. I kind of think itis that. So you've noticed this,
Oh yeah, they never like I'malways just saying goodbye or if I'm talking
to family, love you. Firstof all, I can show you a
good compilation of black of people sayinggoodbye in on the phone. There's there's
a lot of them. It's justthat there's so little compared to the great

(01:17:28):
majority. They don't say goodbye.They just want to get through it.
Like it's yeah, I don't know. I don't know why either. It's
just just nice. Just they don'teven think about it, and they're not
nice, Like they don't say goodbyeon their phones with their mom and their
agents and shit, I guess not. I always meant to google that to
see if there's actually something written aboutit out there. I did. I
did a rewatch of West with theWest Wing this year, and that's on

(01:17:53):
HBO. And that's one thing Inoticed this time around is that there's a
lot of phone calls, you know, a lot of phone scenes all the
time. Every episode I think hasat least one, if not like more
so. And I noticed that theydon't say goodbye, and and it's like,
but that's even worse than that.They even just cut themselves short.
Sometimes they're like they don't acknowledge thatthe conversation has ended. The other person

(01:18:15):
just hangs up. Fuck this guy, I'm done with that. It feels
like it feels like, all right, you know, because they're so busy
and they're trying to save the country, so you know, it just feels
like no one says goodbye. Yeah, like we're too important to say goodbye.
We're too business. Yeah, burnburning bridges, that's what they're doing.
If they did that with me,I'm like, I'm not fucking calling

(01:18:38):
this guy exactly. This guy,Fuck this guy. Yeah, all right,
So I need to get that outthere. Yeah, yeah, No,
it's a good I like that.It's a good I thought because I
thought of it before. I'm withyou. COT's with you? Okay,
all right? What was that?It's my getting ready? Is you're getting

(01:18:58):
ready? All right? Ready forthe countdoign? Yes? Maybe? Well
I'm not. Yeah, that's fine. I don't want it. But otherwise,
do you think it came out okay? Yeah, I think it wants
something out better. It always happensthis way, doesn't it. Maybe we

(01:19:19):
should do that from now on,is actually get together a dry run an
episode and then come back the nextday and actually record it. Yeah,
but that requires actual I mean doingwrong. I love that idea. I
do like that idea, but itrequires extra time. Actually the whole extra
time. That's two days setup,you know, recording, which is again
a fine, and I think itis doable. I think it's you and

(01:19:40):
I were too manic. You know, I'm not very I'm not very what
do you call it calendar or that'snot the right word. I'm not very
organized with my time as much asI want to be. And you don't
ever have time or were not everyou know what I mean? Not as
much as you would like. It'snot as much as you would like.
So I think it's possible. Ithink it's very doable. I think it's
an achievable goal completely. It's justthat a it took us a while to

(01:20:04):
get here too, and you evensuggest that and be it feels like it'll
be hard. But I think wecan do it. Okay, let's let's
plan for that if you can.Yeah. The other thing I was thinking,
what are your thoughts on a newintro bumper music for Patreon of your
completely your own creation, my owncreation. I'm not like a musician though

(01:20:29):
to you, I don't know.I don't Maybe you want to, might
want to play with it at it, take a crack at it, you
crack at it, take a crackat it. It sounds like a drug
invented saying, right, like takea crack at it, you do a
crack at it and just throws itat crackad and then somehow that that said
something that meant something else. Well, just if you you know, see,

(01:20:50):
give you a chance to be creative, do something new for the intro.
Yeah, I just don't, Iknow, never don't know anything about
composition, don't know I mean nothingreal about it, but sure like like
an intro. You mean, likean actual intro. Yeah, like remember
the one you used to do,the the very first intro that we kept
for years. Yeah, actually remembercame with the number when the Devil gets

(01:21:14):
you know whatever. Do something likethat again, something cool like that,
just for Patreon. Yeah, okay, I'll go to correct see what you
I mean. If you don't answer, you don't have to. I just
no, no, no, I'mjust saying. I'm just saying. You
know, I'm not an actual musicyou know,

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