Episode 152: Long Island Serial Killer - The Victims - Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:30):
Welcome to the one hundred and fiftysecond episode of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast
and Yet Still So Paranormal. Myname is Jason Knight, host of the
show, and with me as alwaysis Oscar Specter, producer extraordinaire and podcast
co host. I didn't think Iwas going to remember that. I'm surprised

(00:53):
you that too. I'm surprised.I knew what to say, like,
wait, who am I? AndI say like two things and that's it.
You know, Wow, we'll aska welcome back to my humble abode.
I was going to say humble aboat. I was just about to
say it a full moon tonight.I don't think it's a full moon.
No, but you're watching a wolfmovie thing. When I came like me,
yeah, Josh, good, it'sa good show. Yeah. So

(01:17):
you say my wife got me intoit. I haven't seen it. Give
it a try. Yeah, Iadd it to my list. So it's
been I don't know when this episodeis going to come back exactly, but
most likely after Thanksgiving before Christmas.Okay, all right, So the next
couple of weeks, if we keepa semi regular somewhat logistically planned out recording

(01:41):
schedule. We've tried that so manytimes. Once you're like come this Saturday,
I'm like, bitch, I'm workingat Bubble. You can't just ask
me out of blue. And I'vebeen like pretty like last minute too.
Yeah, you're a little bit.I'm not blaming at all on you,
by the way, either, Icould also be chasing you a little bit,
you know, and ask your like, hey, what about the show
I did for a couple of times. But I don't want to speA annoying
or pesky and you know so No, it's never annoying or pesky. I've

(02:04):
missed it. I've missed you.I know you've come up quite a few
times for parties and get togethers andthings, but actually sitting down and really
talking falks. Asked me the lasttime what he was doing when I met
him. I don't think he evenremembers I was there at the last sore
he had here. He was sofucking drunk. He drank like an elephant's
amount of like a Russian veterans rationsof vodka amount of Yeah, it was

(02:28):
cucumber, a pickle, pickle,pickle, spicy pickles, vodka picka.
Yeah, it sounds like it's gonnait sounds gross, be horrible sounds.
Ye, it is delicious listeners.And I would never know because the entire
bottle was gone by the time Igot there. And I got there,
I got six. It wasn't thatlate. Oh, it wasn't. No,
and I already had a couple oldfashions. I had some pores of
whiskey. Uh, you were gonesome wine. You were acting like you

(02:51):
were like eighteen years old. Youwere drinking like an eighteen nineteen year old.
And I don't even know. Itjust happened so quick. It was
my wife's birthday, is what itwas. Yeah, it was Katie's birthday,
but I kept it. I stayedaway from her and her friends.
I was in the garage with you, with my family and stuff. Yeah,
and that's where I was scummed.You were at the kids table,
essentially, you relegated yourself to thekids table. No. Yeah, so
you've come up. But it isgood to be back in front of the

(03:14):
MIC's talking about crazy shit. I'vemissed it. It's been rough. It's
because it's been almost a year.It'll be almost a year by the time
this comes out, right, Sowe said we're coming back. We're coming
right back. And this is actuallya part of one, so part two
will come out this time next year. Listeners, hold on for one more
year? What my calendar year?Were they going to hang you on this

(03:35):
one? Guys? Like this islike Deathly Hallows Part one and part two
won't come out till next winter.That's right, that's what they did,
right, And that's Harry Potter.For those who don't know, kids,
ask your parents. We know ourdemographics. You could say, kids,
ask your parents about Harry Potter already, Yeah you can, right, No,
I mean, well, the firstmovie came out about less than twenty

(03:55):
years ago, so I got tobe close. If a child is listening
to this podcast and they don't knowwhy Harry, no way, I don't
believe it. No, no way. Harry Potter is pretty much I'm still
very culturally irrelevant. Yeah yeah,yeah, still, I mean it will
never always be, it won't alwaysbe ubiquitous, but it is right now.

(04:15):
Okay, maybe it's just me.Maybe it's just me. You are
getting old, oh my god?So yeah, I mean his Grays.
Bro, everyone, you're so gladthere's not a video medium his Grays.
Yeah. Yeah, the age isgetting up there for sure. It's been
a rough year, gotta be honest. Yeah, me too, little.
Not been good. Last couple ofyears not so much. Well yeah,

(04:36):
I wouldn't say a couple for me, but last this year it sucks.
Yeah, sucks into anything or Yeah, like I've been job hopping. I
left that Starbucks career. Yeah,well first I got fired, but you
left the Navy base. That waslike two years ago, though, is
it? We didn't talk about itwent back to I don't know if we
did talk about on the show,but that did happen before our last episode.

(05:00):
Okay, oh god, some stretching, man, I know you are
so job hunt job hopping. Yeah, I went to uh, essentially three
and a half jobs and like twomonths because like one got I found a
better one that had better scheduling.I found a better one that paid more.
I found a better one, youknow, just kept hopping that way.
So that was good. It wasprojecting upwards. Yeah, but so

(05:20):
far, I like, there's astopping point. Now I'm at three months,
almost three months with this new job. Can we say what the new
job is? Of course, Iworked for the Science, the Museum of
Science and the industry downtown Chicago,which is really haunted by the way,
it's not downtown exactly, it's justsouth of downtown, but yes, you're
right, is and they consider tobe downtown. Yeah, yes, it
is considered to be haunted by byJason Knights almost got your fucking fake name,

(05:47):
and like I remembered in the momentslike night like the night right,
right, yea, it's supposed tobe super haunted, like that submarine supposed
to be haunted. Right, I'vebeen just like when I go there,
I see it as I kind ofsee it as work. So when I
go there, I just go straightto the job area and I don't really
leave I do. I haven't exploredanything I really should. I just haven't

(06:09):
done it. I'm my day offor something. But then you know,
going to your job at your dayoff, and I love the museum,
but it just feels like, oh, so much work. But I will
do it eventually, assuming I'm stayingthere, because at this point it's becoming
a running gag with my friends aretelling me, like, so once you
get a new job, I're like, no, I'm mistaking this One's still
I'm really going to give it atruck. Right, that's a running joke

(06:30):
right now. So what else?Job hopping? Job hopping? Dating life
is horrible, horrendous and and fun. Also it has his moments, for
sure. I shouldn't just you know, you know, think of the negatives,
but I have. I've been onthis year alone. Not an insane
amounts, not a record breaking,not like Signfeld level, but around twenty

(06:53):
dates, twenty first dates with twentydifferent people, twenty first dates, not
the movie that's fifty first dates,fifty and that was what the same person?
Oh, that's right, and Iremember everything. I feel like twenty
one twenty something dates, and Ithink that's a lot. I feel like
that's that's a lot. I mean, it's a lot for these peaky bastards
out here. Yeah. Oh yeah, I would hate to be dating today.

(07:15):
Oh you would hate it so much. You would you would beg me
to make a dating podcast just soyou could vent your frustrations. That's how
much you would hate it. Wow, I have single friends and it's it's
just nightmare story. After you docollect a little bit of single friends,
I'm doing wrong. You have alot of friends that are married together with
partners. But you had a lotof you're the only solid rock and the
friend groups that you create. Yeah, I think I think that's pretty solid.

(07:38):
I think that's the right answer.Tony's doing good, miserable, but
they're together, then that's not OhI guess, yeah, it doesn't count
the right Maybe edit that one out. I don't know. No, I
don't think he'll listened. He wouldnever. No interesting show were your friends
doing? Why would I listen tothat? Exactly right? They have sports
or fantasy football. He ain't listening. Oh you still don't that? Oh

(07:59):
god, yeah, that's why Idon't like them. I remember. Now
what about you though? Why hasit been rocky? Why has it been
for you? What a shit year? Man? So I lost my job.
Just put that one right out way. Where did you see it last?
Did you retrace your steps? Idon't want to retrace that makes sense.
So yeah, this this job thatI was with for over ten years,

(08:20):
dedicated ten years of my life too. They just let me go at
the beginning of our fiscal year thisyear, so at the end of March,
except that fiscal year starts April one, so at the very last day
of March. They tried to trickme and say, oh, we're going
to have a meeting, you know, to go over your next year and
your goals. Oh yeah, real, you know, shady shit like that.

(08:41):
So I go, do you know, jump on this meeting at this
time. We're going to go overyour goals for next year, you're picking
up some new accounts, blah blahblah. I kind of had a feeling,
and sure enough, you know,I jumped at that meeting and they
let me go. Wow. Youknow, it feels like the corporate version
of what's that movie? Johnny DAppand ap Pacino Devil's Advocate Johnny depp Not,
oh sorry, well, yeah,where did what not? Collator's Way?

(09:05):
Fuck has a name in it?Devil's Advocate? How did I pull
that up? It's you're thinking ofcana read yeah, Johnny Devin No,
no, Johnny deppes and Al Pacino. It's a gangster movie. He plays
a cop and infiltrating the Mafia onthe East Side. Donny Brasco. Danny
Brasco, Thank you remember Danny Brasco. Like it's like, you know,

(09:28):
they kill you with a smile whenyou get invited to a certain part,
Like that guy knew a Pacina's characterknew if you were going to die,
you get invites to a certain partyat a certain time, and he knew
that if you're wearing any jewelryr money, they would get stolen off you.
So he takes it all off.He takes a lot because he goes to
the party. Because that was theyfound out that that was a cop spoiler
for the forty year old movie.It was it's a lot of casino in

(09:52):
there too, A little thing.Yes, I know when you get called
there's a chance saying, is thatyou knew the way Appucino knew it.
I did. I had a feelbecause you know, around with these big
companies, Japanese companies, at theend of the fiscal year, big things
happen every single year. Everyone's panicking, everyone's nervous, everyone's sweating, like,
oh yeah, so weird. SoI kind of had a feeling because
the thing with corporate America is theydon't give a fuck about you. No,

(10:15):
they don't. They don't give afuck about what you've done for them.
They want you to do well,but they don't want you to do
too well. And I was doingvery well. Why wouldn't they want you
to do too well. It's likea threatening base, like a money.
It's all money they don't want topay. Oh, I see, no,
I don't want to They'll get someoneelse to do it, I see
cheaper. Or it'll take my responsibility. It's it's much worse. Or they'll

(10:37):
take my responsibilities and pass it outamong all the other poor bastards that are
still there. You should do whatI do and barely do a good job.
No, no, no, Ido a good job, just not
a great job. Yeah. So, I mean, so that was a
huge change of life. I mean, from doing fantastically to a grinding halt.
That's that's scary now. It couldhave been ten times worse. But

(11:00):
my company was generous, I guess, and they gave me a really good
severance. So I was like,we'll live off the severance. They covered
my hole insue, my family's insurance, which was quite a few thousand dollars
a month, which is really sick. But that's how much all that's how
much it was. I don't haveinsurance, as you all can hear it.

(11:20):
So so I wasn't, you know, down and out and broke.
I had plenty of money coming in, but just that mindset, you know
where, Fuck, I don't havenothing to do now, you know.
It was very hard to deal with. But we traveled, took my family
on a cruise, took my wife'sNew Orleans during me didn't do shows,
didn't do shows. I was shows. I have shows in the in the

(11:43):
hopper here, but I was doingYeah, I was doing some writing.
But it could have been a lotworse. But it's just a mental thing
that it shakes your confidence, makesyou guess, you know, am I
really good at what I do?Or am I just was? I just
lucky? Am I a piece ofshit? So it was really rough.
It was rough, but traveled,We had fun, partied all summer,
and I have a new job nowthat I'm pretty excited about. Yeah,

(12:07):
for a competitor, So it's goingto be my life's mission to beat my
former company as often as I can, you know, little competition there.
But uh, that was the worst. That was the worst. And yeah,
so I'm just getting over that nowand everything's okay, everything's okay.
But that was rough. It wasreally rough. Yeah, you know,
talk about that insight you're talking aboutlike you had some insight into I mean

(12:30):
negative insight for sure, you hadsome ups and downs and you're off time,
but insight regardless, right that youmade of yourself, including some writing.
I went through something similar to whenI was job hopping and there was
two months in there where I didn'twork at all and I applied everywhere.
You know, a lot of placesI would never go, but I still
applied. And one of those thingsis that and especially when I started my

(12:50):
first of those jobs, that Ireally forgot what it was. Anyway,
it doesn't matter, and I stillfeel it. It still feels it to
this day. But it's when Iwalked in there to those jobs, the
interview and the orientation process, right, all that shit is that, like
I just really solidified my utmost desireto never have to work and these kind

(13:16):
of things again. So I startedlike feeling the fire on my own as
a little and I started writing alot more because I wanted to see if
I could, like not work foranyone else. Yeah, just really hated
And I don't have a big crossto bear, I don't have a huge
amount of dependence. I live prettysimply, but I still wanted to get

(13:39):
the fuck out of the job force. So I've been writing a lot more
of these days, but for myself, not for the show. So sorry,
folks. A mixed bag of ascript here, a short story there,
trying to do a bunch of differentthings in tenancy with stakes and what
I can finish better or more.So you just want to go Yeah,
maybe self. I'm looking into selfpublishing ideas and all this stuff, like
I just want to write something andthen projected timetable of two years and get

(14:03):
something out. But yeah, Ijust want it makes me want to get
out for faster, to get paidto do what you love. I mean,
that's the dream, that's everyone's dream. Yeah, right. Uh.
In my job, I deal withbusiness owners, and a lot of these
business owners have told me, like, the only reason why I own this
company is because I was the worstemployee. I wouldn't listen to anybody.
I have to work for myself.No one else will hire me. So

(14:24):
I did this. I built thatsound feeling right now. Yeah, I
have such a problem with authority.A lot of people are like that.
They make some of the best entrepreneurs, So fucking go for it. Man.
But you know, other than that, new family's doing great, my
son's getting huge, my daughter hasa boyfriend. Now, Aisa, what's
it Aisa? Oh Padre? Yeahright right, Comba Yeah, yeah,

(14:50):
so that's that's you know, somethingthat's that just switch share, you know,
I don't think this. These awfulpowerful mics can't capture the eye twitch.
They almost did, though, sothey didn't. I wanted to hate
them so much, so badly.He's so courteous, but I don't.
He's so nice. Yeah, Idon't. I don't hate him. The

(15:11):
more polite he is, the morelikely he's a serial killer, especially when
we talk about tonight's episode. No, can you imagine having that kind of
insight to a story? Yeah,that level of intimate knowledge. Uh yeah,
So so yeah, Kate, mywife's doing good, she's working,
Nico's doing good. And here weare recording again, and I hope since

(15:31):
I have stuff in the hopper,you have stuff in the hopper. We
could keep this rolling for a whilehere, for two weeks, because we
had some listeners who were really excitedthat we were back. And then we
just yeah again, just life,man. We teased them, we did.
We did one of those peep showslike for half the time that they
paid for. That's rue. Iactually don't know how that works? Is
that how it works? I thinkI'm definitely to old for that kind of

(15:56):
shit. That they didn't make thoseanymore. The peep shows they don't,
right, Oh they've got me.Come on, really, where listeners?
If you know of a peep show, legit legitimate a peep show, let
me know you know how it works? And sidens the address. Yeah,
just it's like a novelty. It'slike seeing a pinball. And pee Wee
was in a peep show, right, jerking off and it wasn't too long.
How long ago was that? Idon't know was he in a peep

(16:19):
show? Because pee Wee in apeep show sounds I think he was just
fucked up, not fucked almost allwith that. You're right, I take
that back. Yeah, and it'sat all. It isn't no if that's
your if that's your gig. Butwe do have an aversion to sexual So
why did he get you know what? This is going off the rails already,
because you're right, it's like,oh, he was arrested, Well
he was jerking off. You can'tdo that. Yeah, that's the whole

(16:41):
point. You do jerk off inthose peep shows. Ye, But it's
not like legal. Is the peepshow legal? The peep show is legal?
Is it that we talk about astrip joint or a peep show?
Are we talking about the same thing? No, I think he was in
a peep show. Then I thinkit's very common to jerk off. It's
like those old Uh okay, fine, maybe not legal, but it was
common and as fuck well, everyoneknew that's what you did. You don't

(17:03):
get caught like It's like if Ilittered and I get caught. Right,
technically the right, I think,and thrown a big back wrapper on the
floor. You're right, but Ican't think of a more real world example
for I can't either. I can't. I'm sorry. How do we start
talking about you? You who almoststarted a thing with pee wee Herman.

(17:23):
We'll talk about this later. We'regonna do yeah outtakes. Yeah, listeners,
listen after the show. There mightbe some some weird ship there.
But yes, and then here weare so here we are, yes,
drinking whiskey recording. I have ahell of a story for the next two
episodes. I am so guarantee twofolks. We're guaranteeing two Yeah, Yeah,

(17:49):
I am just so enthralled in this, this series that I put together.
It's current, it's timely, it'shappening now. So we've talked in
past episodes, past shows where it'shard to come up with topics that are
relevant to what we talk about thatare actually unfolding at the same time.
Oh yeah, so this is unfoldingsas we're gonna be talking about it here.

(18:12):
So so we're doing current thing,current thing, Yeah, very current.
So I don't know without further ado, I forgot what do we do
from here? It's a break.I don't know how we commence the break.
Oh no, I know what wedo? You give people how they
can find us and shit, ohyes, you remember that still the well

(18:33):
the website Chicago Ghost podcast dot com. Check out that website, not chicagost
Yeah, stream all of our pastepisodes there, chop our merch that's there,
and find us on social media.All the links are there off the
website. Just go to the website, you know what I mean. If
you go to the website, youcan see how else you can catch up

(18:56):
to us. Fuck you if we'retrying to find that information here and your
loved one. I'm really bad atmy chop. You know. Before we
started recording, I asked Jake casually, mind you do you have a script
that boy gonna say the opening andstuff like? No, I think I'll
remember it. Wait wait wait,uh huh, I'm trying to remember the

(19:22):
phone. No, no, don'tremember in real time, and that's not
very cinematic. Speaking of the phonenumber, No, we don't have a
phone. No, no, there'sno phone number. Remember you you took
it out. You was shoot itfor reality and I don't have the information
on me now. But there isa voicemail we have to play. Oh
this we got one from a listener. Yeah, yeah, one or two.
Actually I don't have them queued upnow. Uh. I figured this

(19:44):
was going to be long enough thisepisode because it's this maybe in the part
too. Well, yeah, i'lldust it. I'll dust off that voicemail
and uh okay, so if youknow who you guys are, I will
get to them. I did getthem. I mean it's been so long
they might have died already. Ohwhat be super sad at that it did
die. But you know what,I wouldn't have caused it. I would

(20:04):
just be in a bad time.Yeah, Jo eight seven two five two
nine zero seven six seven. Ohmy god, you remember, you know
if you dial that backwards, bloodyMary shows up with her niece. Oh,
I fucking five eight eight nine threehundred. No one outside of Chicago

(20:26):
knows what you just said. Eightseven two five two nine zero seven six
seven. No, that's right,you said it right the first time.
Yes, got it? Why wouldyou believe me? I don't know.
I literally haven't rattled that off ina year. You do it in your
sleep, Katie keeps texting me.Can you can't just stop saying the phone
numbers? Tell him taking seapap offand stop talking. It's a sea pap.

(20:47):
I don't know what it helps yousleep when you're old and fat.
That's an old thing. Yeah,yeah, yeah, Oh it's been a
rough year. I'll tell you.I think we should. So we got
the website, we got the phonenumber. We did a little keecho to
have a Jay's medical bracelet on.No, not not yet, you check.
That's my next blood test. Allright, let's take a quick break.

(21:07):
Let's do it. Listeners, welcomeback to the show. Well,

(21:48):
the lights are turned down low,the ceremonial candle is lit. What up?
And the drinks are flowing. Let'sstart this show, all right,
listeners, Before we begin, beforewe start this whole crazy rollercoaster, you
gotta go to the show notes.I've got a ton of photos there for

(22:12):
you to see. There's so manyplayers in this episode and the next you're
gonna want to put names to facesand vice versa. So it's all there
for you in the show notes.Check it out. It's an interactive show.
That's yeah, right, yeah,exactly. Go to check it out.
It's it's crazy, it's crazy.You're gonna feel terrible. It's such

(22:37):
a tragic thing. That's what Imean. That's what I mean. It's
tragedy. It's made more tragic bythe fact that I laughed at dude,
what's wrong with you? I think'swrong with me? All right, So
tonight we're gonna be talking about probablyone of the craziest serial murder cases I've
ever come across. So many victims, so many twists and turns, so

(23:02):
many conspiracy theories, and this caseis current, like it's literally unfolding as
we're recording this. This is thestory of the Long Island serial killer,
also known as the Gilgo Beach Killeror the Craigslist ripper. If this individual
actually exists, then he could beresponsible for the murder of at least twenty

(23:26):
women in multiple states, and likelymore, almost guaranteed more. Now,
the victims are all sex workers withsimilar features, height, weight, eye
color. They were similar in age, and almost all of them advertised their
services online, namely on Craigslist andsome on Backpage, and when discovered,

(23:49):
their bodies were positioned in the sameway and found near bodies of water.
Now, for over a decade,the hunt for the Long Island serial killer
has baffled police, baffled web salutesand armchair detectives, and the investigation into
these murders has mushroomed tantalizing theories thatinclude corrupt police cover ups, elite sex

(24:12):
parties, multiple serial killers, multiplesus suspects, an evil doctor. You
name it, this story has it. Now. I think we already mentioned
this, but this is going tobe a two part series. In tonight's
episode, we're going to introduce youto the serial murders themselves and talk about
each victim. In the next episode, we'll talk about theories and possible suspects,

(24:37):
as well as the suspect sitting ina jail cell right now accused of
killing just three of the twenty womenwe're going to be talking about tonight.
Oh yes, so again, makesure go to the show notes check out
these photos that go along with thisstory. Now, all of this begins

(24:59):
with a twenty three years old escortfrom Jersey City, New Jersey, named
Shannon Gilbert. Late at night onApril thirtieth, twenty ten, Shannon received
an out call offer on her Craigslistposting for her escort services, meaning someone
wants her to go to their housefor services. Someone on Long Island wanted

(25:21):
Shannon's company for the night, soshe meets up with her driver slash security
guy in Manhattan, a guy namedMichael Pack, and the two drive out
to Suffolk County, Long Island,about an hour and fifteen minute drive from
where the two had met up inManhattan. At around two am on May
first, twenty ten, Michael Packand Shannon Gilbert arrive at a house owned

(25:45):
by a man named Joseph Brewer,which is in a gated community called Oak
Beach Association on the south shore ofLong Island. It's a very secluded,
very private, relatively wealthy community offOcean Parkway, overlooking the Atlantic Ocean.
Now, between Ocean Parkway and theAtlantic Ocean is miles and miles of This

(26:11):
difficult to traverse, unforgiving marshland withreeds that can grow over twelve feet tall.
This is going to be really important. So Shannon gets out of Michael
Pack's truck and she goes into JoeBrewer's home to conduct her business, while
Pack stays in the car in caseanything goes sideways with Shannon's date. That's

(26:33):
Pack's job to drive Shannon from clientto client and intervene if anything gets too
crazy, and for his services,Michael receives a cut of Shannon's nightly earnings.
Now, about two and a halfhours after Shannon enters Joe Brewer's home,
at four point fifty one am onMay first, again, twenty ten,

(26:55):
Suffolk County Police received a call fromShannon Gilbert which lasted twenty three minutes,
during which Shannon begs for help becausesomeone is after her and because someone
is trying to kill her. Shetells the nine to one to one operator,
quote they're plotting to kill me andquote they're going to kill me.
Now we're gonna play part of thiscall, not all of it because it's

(27:18):
twenty three minutes long, so we'rejust gonna play a part. But man,
is it creepy. From the onecall you're about to hear, you
could tell something is definitely wrong withShannon. She's obviously afraid for her life,
and at times she seems to betalking in this dream like state,
like she's drunk or high, ormaybe like she's been drugged. At other

(27:41):
times during the call, Shannon's painfullysilent, while at other times she's screaming.
You'll also hear in the background ofthis call, Michael Pack the driver,
and Joseph Brewer, Shannon's date forthe night, trying to convince her
to leave his house. Now,Oscar, can we please play Shannon's nine
one one only because you said pleasestay, Please super fry stay police.

(28:11):
Yeah, there's some of the answeries. I'm sorry, there's somebody answer me.
Where are you? There's somebody answerme? Okay, where are you?
There's somebody answeries? Where are you? Ma'am? I don't know if
you're driving right now? No,I'm sorry, I'm inside the house.

(28:36):
What hell? I don't know straights? Where I am? I'm sorry?
Your phrase? Where I am No, I can't. What's your callback number
you're calling from? Huh? Whatphone number you're calling from? Soboy's answer
clear? Are you in Succa Countyor NASA County? Where on Long Island

(29:02):
are you? Okay, let's sayno, way, no stop? No?

(29:22):
Where in Long Island? Are youin the county Nasa County? Huh
uh? Huh? Why do youcall me? By me? Why?

(29:45):
County? On the line? Stop? Stop? Please stop? Leeez?
Who's the door? No time togo? Is please do that work?

(30:07):
Please? Jokes all full over side? Please also fun please please? Why
not? Please? Please get myhost by Okay? Where will it go?

(30:49):
Pre going to go? Why?Well? I don't know? Way

(31:21):
and nowhere? Let's go back tolet's go back to the head were Long
Island near the water? May stop? No stop to please? Hello?

(31:45):
Hello, what's what's the problem?What's the matter? What happened? Hello?
Please let me out of hell?Oh they're being fantastic about this.

(32:08):
You're a part of this all,Shannon. Now, as you heard in

(32:43):
this call. Shannon eventually leaves Brewer'shouse and she runs to a neighbor's house,
an elderly man named Gus Colletti,a guy who's lived in Oak Beach
Association, this community for about thirtyyears. When Shannon approaches Colletti's house,
she's still on the phone with police, and you could hear her beg Colletti
for help, and for some reason, she lets out this blood curdling scream

(33:07):
just out of nowhere. Shannon runsoff, and Colletti calls the police and
he tells him there's a small,young blonde girl maybe fourteen years old,
running around screaming for help, andthat she's being chased by someone in a
black suburban Michael Pack her driver drivesa black Suv Okay. Now again,

(33:30):
before police could get there, Shannonbolts from Colletti's house and she bangs on
another neighbor's house, an elderly womannamed Barbara Brennan, prompting this neighbor to
also call the police. Now wedidn't play this call, but during Brennan's
nine one one call, you couldhear Shannon banging frantically on the door.
But Brennan's scared. She has herelderly mother in the house, so she

(33:52):
doesn't open the door. Now,keep in mind this is sometime around five
thirty AM. Imagine you're an elderlywoman being woken up to this chaos?
What would you do? Would youlet this frontic stranger in now? Anyway?
Once again, before the police couldget to Shannon, she takes off.
She runs away from Barbara Brennan's home, and when police finally arrive on

(34:14):
scene, Shannon is nowhere to befound, like no trace at all.
She's vanished. And what's so scaryabout this is that the events leading up
to Shannon's disappearance are all well documented. There were three nine to one one
calls made, one twenty three minuteslong from Shannon herself begging for help and
claiming someone was after her, tryingto kill her, and two calls from

(34:37):
neighbors. And here's something else,Why did it take police so long to
get to Oak Beach Association. Shannon'scall was twenty three minutes long? Why
weren't cops dispatch while that call wasin progress? Which leads to another question
something else that's weird. During hercall, we hear Shannon ask nine to
one one to trace the call,to which the operator said they can't.

(35:01):
What I remember one time my daughteraccidentally called nine one one on one of
my old disconnected cell phones. Nextthing I know, cops are at my
door asking to search my house,and Suffolk Police couldn't trace a twenty three
minute call and dispatch someone to thescene. Plus you have Gus Colletti's call
and Barbara Brennan's call, and stillno one shows up until five forty am,

(35:22):
almost a full hour after that firstcall was made by Shannon. Anything
could happen in an hour, andit did. Yeah, she disappeared right
now. When police finally get toOak Beach Association and they realize that Shannon's
nowhere to be found, they quicklycome to the conclusion that Shannon got into

(35:44):
that black SUV Gus Colletti mentioned,either voluntarily or by force, and she
was driven somewhere out of the area, which severely delayed authorities from investigating the
immediate areas around Oak Beach Association,around Gilgo Beach Ocean Parkway. This immediate
area that and as I mentioned justa few minutes ago, the location we're

(36:06):
talking about here is just full ofthese reedy, marshy areas where vegetation could
grow twice the height of a man, making any sort of feed on the
ground. Investigating extremely difficult, ifnot impossible. Now, I'm not saying
that the police didn't want to gointo these difficult areas in search, but
they didn't. And it's here,in this nasty marshy area between the Atlantic

(36:30):
Ocean and Ocean Parkway that Shannon Gilbert'sbody will be discovered on December thirteenth,
twenty eleven, eighteen months after shedisappeared. But I'm severely getting ahead of
myself now. In December of twentyten, so seven months after Shannon went

(36:50):
missing, the local Missing Persons Bureauasked veteran Suffolk County Police officer John Mallia
to assist in the search for ShannonGilbert along with his partner, Blue,
a German Shepherd. Okay, sothis is kind of a strange name for
our guy, as they never callhim a cadaver dog. But it's kind
of the impression I did is thatBlue is a cadaver dog. Now,

(37:14):
you know, Malia and Blue hadno luck at the gated community of Oak
Beach Association. But the next day, on December eleventh, twenty ten,
Officer Malia decided to take Blue andsearch to the west alongside Ocean Parkway at
Gilgo Beach. Here again, thevegetative vegetation is thick and would have made

(37:35):
an ideal spot for a killer todump a body, save from a vehicle.
So the two start searching and suddenlyBlue picked up a scent, and
sure enough, a skeleton was discoveredin the nearly disintegrated remains of a burlap
sack. Now in somber excitement,police assumed they had finally found Shannon Gilbert.

(38:00):
They hadn't. It was someone else. Oh. Two days later,
on December thirteenth, twenty ten,while investigating this new crime scene, officer
Malia discovered a second body. Bythe end of that day, there would
be two more sets of remains discovered, four bodies in total found at Gilgo
Beach, and none of them wereShannon Gilbert. As it turns out,

(38:24):
police had unknowingly stumbled upon a graveyard, a dumping ground. The four bodies
discovered at Gilgo Beach, collectively knownas the Gilgo Four, were all sex
workers that utilized the Internet to advertisethemselves, namely on Craigslist, just like
Shannon Gilbert had done. The fourbodies turned out to be Maureen Brainerd Barnes,

(38:47):
aged twenty five, Melissa Barthelemy twentyfour, Megan Waterman twenty two,
and amberln Costello twenty seven, andit was Melissa Bartholemey's remains that Officer Malia
in Blue found first. The remainseveryone thought belonged to Shannon Gilbert but didn't.
And all these women had gone missingbetween July of two thousand and seven

(39:12):
and September twenty ten. They couldn'ttell immediately how old these bodies were because
there's been years and some of themas opposed to months, there was a
lot of decomp Yeah. Now,the the burlap helped slow right right to
a bit, because you mentioned I'mlike, after seven months since its appearance,
since the disappearance of Gilbert, I'mMike were I did in that question

(39:37):
the fact that this is more decomposedthan it should have been. Oh,
I see, you know, yeah, I don't know. Maybe it really
yeah, excitement, I saw thiscase that could be a fit too,
this isn't her, And maybe that'show they finally really like, oh yeah,
uh, this is way too decompto be. I think I convinced
myself as I said that, No, it's cool. Now. When the

(39:58):
remains of the women were discovered atGilgill b investigators were surprised to find that
each woman was spaced almost exactly fivehundred feet from one another and twenty two
to thirty three feet from the edgeof Ocean Parkway. What's so strange about
this is, if you think aboutit, this methodical spacing of the bodies,
think about a hunter's trophy room,right. You see all these stuffed

(40:21):
animal heads, these trophies, allspaced nicely across the wall for the hunter
to enjoy. It's like whoever killedthese women was doing the same thing.
Like Gilgo Beach was the killer's trophygarden, a place he could visit and
know exactly where each woman was andrelish and reliving his heinous axe over and
over again. It's super creepy stuff. Now, to get deeper into the

(40:44):
victim profile, the killer preferred petitefemales around one hundred pounds give or take,
between the ages of twenty two totwenty seven years old, with hazel
or green eyes. And as Imentioned, the gilg four were all sex
workers and they use it to advertisetheir services. Another common point. All
four had been killed by homicidal violence, specifically strangulation, and all had missing

(41:08):
clothing and personal possessions. Something wasmissing from the body. Each victim was
found face down, barefoot, andfacing east. Each victim is said to
have had contact with their killer shortlybefore their disappearance via burner cell phones or
cell phones without an associated verified identity. Of the four victims, two of

(41:30):
them had their personal cell phones usedby the killer after their deaths, which
I'll talk about here in a minute. In addition, each of the four
victims were found similar positioned, likeI said, bound in a similar fashion
by either belts or tape or both, and all the victims were found intact.
These four victims were found intact,in other words, not dismembered,

(41:51):
right, and they were all wrappedin burlap, same type of burlap,
yes, which comes into play herelater in the next episode. We'll get
deep into that, because that's anotherit leads off to this crazy place.
Yeah. Now, Suffolk police sawthe signs, but they were reluctant to
come out and admit that a serialkiller was operating on Long Island, and

(42:12):
it took a long time for authoritiesto really tear into this case, which
to some screams conspiracy. And we'lltalk about this later. Promise, But
for now, I want to givethe victims their time, get to know
them a little bit, and showthat you know, there were more than
just sex workers and drug addicts.There are more than just a notch and
a killer's belt, more than acaution cautionary tale. They all had a

(42:37):
story. They had families that lovedthem and children that needed them. We
cannot forget how quickly a little bumpin the road can spiral out of control,
and we could wind up in situationsthat we'd never think we'd be in,
regardless of upbringing or financial status.None of these women set out to
be prostitutes and drug addicts. Certainlynone of them expected to be murdered.

(42:58):
But that's exactly what happened, againand again and again. And I'll tell
you ask her putting this together,and I've been working on this episode for
the better part of four months.I'll tell you this really fucked me up.
But because I saw my daughter's facein so many of these girls,
the hair, that blue eyes,you know, the petite It fucked me

(43:19):
up. Man, how quickly somethingcould go wrong? Yeah, I mean,
like my I wonder like it's itfeels like, you know, a
lot of people go with a profileof how you eventually catch a serra kill
like this is that, assuming it'sthe same person, seems to be like
most likely it is one person.We don't know. I mean, I

(43:43):
don't know because I never know.Is that it's just so it's so peculiar.
The more specific they are, themore it feels like it should evidently
lead to them, you know,so like the petiteness, the color eyes,
the age bracket, right, agebracket maybe not so maybe that's been

(44:05):
more common, right, but likeotherwise, like the one hundred pounds right
then, you know, it feelslike a bunch of Marilyn Monroe type figures,
like you know, that's how I'mimagining that when you were describing it.
Not that I don't know her byecolor by the way, guys,
so don't don't email me and thatyou know, I don't she might have
been I don't know. Yeah,yeah, we don't. Just guess,

(44:27):
we don't know. Okay, itwas the color, I'm sure and this
is black, of course, whichis I guess not a color? And
like is that why for example,like when she went to when Gilbert went
to Shannon and Gilbert, right,she went to the first neighbor, the
guy. Yeah, and he describedthat there's a twelve year old, fourteen
fourteen year old. Yeah, becausethat's how she looked. That's how that's

(44:51):
how teach you was because she lookedthat much like a child to him.
Yeah, I guess so in thedark, you know, I guess it
was still dark at that point.But yeah, very petite, very small,
young looking. Check the show notes, you know, look at the
photo. I mean, my firstquestions were like, concerning about this is
a gated community. Yes, thatusually means that there's security of prompt at

(45:14):
the gate. Next episode, Oh, I got away, so that question,
Oh dude, okay, okay,And we set out to record two
episodes tonight listeners. But this scriptin total is almost sixty pages long,
and I just don't know if wehave it in us tonight. But now
we want to get to that part. Yeah, because you're asking great fucking
questions, man, and questions thateveryone's been asking. But there's a key

(45:37):
player in this association that I'm notgoing to get to yet. I'm also
very curious about the ten year gap, ten plus year gap, since you're
saying this is still as in storyto someone in jail right now, and
you mentioned that you tease that ifyou will, yes, So that means
it's still very much current. Thenit's been long running. When you're mentioning
current before, I didn't think itstarted in two thousand and seven or whenever

(45:58):
the first one does append it likelygoes even for I almost corrected you earlier,
which would have given me away alittle bit. Not that I'm ashamed
of it, but like when youmentioned that Craigslist is used as a means,
an online means to, you know, show your services if you want
to be an escort, and youalso mentioned back Page, Yes, I'm
like, I almost correct you andsay, like, no, they used
yes backpage now not backpage. Isthat what it's called? Yes, back

(46:21):
page? Yeah, because they becauseit's been it's been taken down by the
government, because it's legal. Toyou, like, this was happening because
of well I'm not saying because ofthat. They canceled it because illegal that's
why. Wow, And they Ididn't know it was illegal. No escorts,
we got you. But isn't thatliterally what back page was for?
Yeah, Well that's why they gotrid of that. They they got destroyed.

(46:42):
Now they use their service offside somewherein a different country. That's why
it's legal now to use that website. But it's called yes back page,
that's what the latest. I know. No, that's interesting. That almost
corrects you. But and then youstart saying twenty ten was okay, Well
it was still that yes, soyou're still right. So I didn't correct
you, Like, let's wait thatI was still interested. I didn't know
they changed names, got shut downat all. There's a lot of stuff

(47:02):
like I used to be like notnowhere near an advocate. I used to
you know, know about like thepeople who are very pro sex workers,
and I'm very I'm also pro sexworker, like and so there's a lot
of material in this and that's oneof the stuff I read on it interesting.
Keep going no, no, no, no, fuck yeah, I
just I just want to spend timegoing through these victims. Remember there's twenty

(47:23):
Yes, we've only talked about fourand Shannon. We'll get to Shannon in
a moment. So let's start withthe GILG four right, for I fucking
hate that name. Gilg's Gilgo beachright g A l g O. What
a horrible name for a beach.For a beat. Gilgo, it just
sounds like a place where bad shit'sgonna happen. Doesn't sound that way.
It sounds like it sounds horrible.I hate that name. It doesn't sound

(47:45):
bad to me. It sounds tackyto me. Tacky. Yeah, it
doesn't sound like a bad like that'swhere that's murder Capital Beach. No,
it doesn't feel that way to me. It just feels like a tacky name.
It feels like someone would have likea portrait of themselves in their bedroom.
Contacty. It doesn't seem like it'suh, you know, I get
you like that what you're saying,but I'll teach that. Yeah, I

(48:06):
hate it, which is probably theother reason why I don't watch that movie
Sissu, because I hate that fuckingYeah, you're so weird about this movie.
But you know, if you could, you could google this stuff.
You google Gilgo Beach pictures. It'sbeautiful, this Oak Beach Association that overlooks
the I mean, I would livethere. I want to live there.
It's my dream is to live ina place like that. Right. Oh
yeah, yeah you have a bigbeach guy. Yeah, you're right.
This is an ocean, you know, little community on the ocean, relatively

(48:29):
very pretty, pretty fucking wealthy.You know. Some of the houses are
kind of ramshackle looking from what I'venoticed, but you're still looking at the
ocean, so you know that fuckeris going for a mill les even though
it's a little ramshackle. So Iwould say it's wealthy. It's secluded.
They kind of police their own It'sit's a weird I've been. I started
a book, a history book aboutNew York and how how this one man

(48:51):
was largely responsible for building the entireinfrastructure and the look and feel of what
New York is now, what itis today, you know, and what
it has been for a long time. And part of that that building stuff.
The chapters that I'm in right nowis making Long Island into Long Island,
and I'm getting into that right nowand talk about the rich people that

(49:14):
own the land that were had tobe tricked or in some older fashion through
through laws and ways and means,kick them out of the land so they
can use it to make beaches,to make roads and parks for the citizens.
And they're talking about that right now. That's why I'm out in the
book. It's a history book kindof ironic that we're covering this as you're

(49:35):
reading that this wasn't planned that.Well, No, that wasn't plan at
all, Like I haven't told youabout this book. He there, So
we when we I think we talkeda lot about that when we covered the
two part series on Amityville. Ifeel like we talked about Long Island.
We talked about history, how toturn into kind of beach towns. We
did feel like this sounds a littlefamiliar, but I could be next to
my memories. I don't know enough. Yeah, well, I'm me sure

(49:57):
a listener. We can listen tothat show, right, So yeah,
and so yeah. Oak b Associationdefinitely a weird place. Long Island itself
too is it's a pretty weird.But I have family in Long Island ron
Konkoma. Remember we talked about thelady of a lake in Ronkonkama in one
of our episodes. My family liveslike, yeah, it's okay to my
family lives on roan Konkoma. It'sa it's a world of its own,
Long Island. It really is,Yes, And we have I think we

(50:21):
have listeners that are either in orvery close to they know exactly what I'm
talking about. It's this little pocketarea, you know, outside of New
York City. It's it's a longhistory of corruption, a long history of
there's a lot of a lot offucked up shit that goes on in Long
Island. So this is where allthis takes place, right, A lot

(50:43):
of serial killers in Long Island,a lot of bodies over the years,
weird shit Amityville. So this iswhere we're talking about. And it's this
this isolated stretch of road, thisOcean Parkway, it's like fifteen miles long.
Yeah, and it's desolate. It'slike I said, it's got this
no man land where these bodies arebeing found. But yet there's these beautiful
beaches dotting this stretch of highway aswell. It's very strange, man.

(51:07):
So you got to kind of thinkabout it. These bodies are here.
Someone had to pull up on thisisolated road to dump these bodies. That's
going to catch someone's attention. Carsshould not be there. This isn't a
highway, this isn't someone you know, you would think someone would be caught,
so someone would see something, butthey don't. No one saw it.
No one's seen anything. Very weird. Okay, sorry, we got

(51:28):
to get back to it. It'sthe whiskey, a nice little ten year
eagle rare. I got here.It's a Doc Ryan Special bottle, Doc
Ryan Select bottle. It's a veryfamous bar in Dock Ryan slash Buffalo Trace.
People just send us money. DockCrows, I said, Doc Ryan's
You said Crows. It's dock Crows. Well, now they can't send us
money for this advertise that. Yeah, it's more fine if we don't Doc

(51:52):
Crows, very famous bar in Louisville. I'm also drinking Moonlight Mayhem. Send
me money Moonlight Mayhem from film Land. Yeah, we should put a picture
of this up on the website orsomething. That's a beautiful bottle. Only
have they pass through. Okay,Gig four, Gig four, I want
to cover these women, all right, So of the gig four, let's
start with Marine Brainerd Barnes. She'sbelieved to be the Long Island serial killer's

(52:15):
first victim. Now, Marine BrainerdBarnes was a mother, described as an
aspiring songwriter, artist and a romantic. She was a romantic. She fell
on hard times and turned to sexwork to support her family. Maureen was
twenty five years old when she waslast seen in New York City on July

(52:35):
ninth, two thousand and seven.She was contacted by a burner phone on
July sixth, two thousand and seven, and between July sixth and July ninth,
sixteen calls were made between Marine's phoneand this burner phone. Now.
The last cell phone ping for Marinewas on July ninth, two thousand and
seven, at approximately eleven fifty sixPM in Midtown Manhattan near the fifty ninth

(53:00):
Street Bridge. There was no furtheractivity with their cell phone until July twelfth,
two thousand and seven, when twocalls were made from Marine's cell phone
checking her voicemail from a cell sitelocated near the Long Island Expressway. Now.
Marine's body was found wrapped in burlapat Gilgo Beach on December eleventh,

(53:20):
twenty ten. She had been boundby three belts, one of them a
very distinct belt that had the initialsW H or HM stamped into it.
Depending on the belt upside down ornot, it was either WH or HM,
and we'll see what these initials likelymean in the next episode, so

(53:42):
sorry on that. But two weeksafter she went missing, a friend of
Marine's received a block call from aman asking if she knew a girl named
Marie with a tattoo of the nameNicole on her arm on her right arm,
and the tattoo actually said Nicolette,name of Marine's daughter, and Marie
was Marine's escort name, so shewent by Marie when she was out servicing

(54:07):
clients. So the friend said,yeah, that's that's Marine. She's been
missing for two weeks, to whichthe man replied that Marie is fine,
that she just saw that he justsaw her, and that she's staying at
a whorehouse in Queen's his words.The friend asked for the address to this
poorhouse, and the man said he'dcall back with it, but he was

(54:28):
never heard from again. Authorities nowbelieve this was the killer reaching out to
kind of taunt Marine's Marine's friend Now, when the Suffolk County Crime Lab examined
Marine's remains, they found a Caucasianfemale hair in the buckle of one of
the belts that bound her, andthis hare didn't belong to Marine. We'll

(54:50):
see who that belonged to in thenext episode. Another of the Giggle victims
was Melissa Barthelemy Originally from Buffalo,New York, Melissa Barthelomy moved to the
Bronx to become a hairdresser. Describedas tough and strong willed, twenty four
year old Melissa turned to sex workto make ends meet, and she was
last seen alive near her basement apartmenton July tenth, two thousand and nine,

(55:15):
and she was reported missing by hermother on July eighteenth, two thousand
and nine. According to court documents, Melissa was contacted by another Berner phone
on July third, two thousand andnine, and subsequently contacted by the same
Berner phone on July sixth, ninth, and tenth, the tenth being the
day she was last seen alive.Cell talerreck Cell tower records for July tenth

(55:38):
indicate that this Berner phone moved fromMassapequa Park on Long Island to Midtown Manhattan.
Later in the evening of July tenth, Melissa's cell phone moved from Midtown
Manhattan to Massapeko Park. Nothing wasever seen of Marine Melissa. Nothing was

(55:59):
ever seen of Malie Lissa until herskeleton remains were discovered wrapped in burlap at
Gilgo Beach on December thirteen, twentyten during the search for Shannon Gilbert.
Shortly after her disappearance, Melissa's sister, Amanda, received a taunting phone call
from Melissa's phone, presumably made bythe Long Island serial killer himself. Now,

(56:22):
in the calls, the killer knewAmanda's name and what she looked like,
and he asked her if she wasa half breed, she's mixed race.
He asked if Amanda was a whorelike her sister, and he admitting
to raping. He admitted to rapingMelissa before killing her, and he said
he was going to enjoy watching Melissarot Amanda said. The man spoke in

(56:42):
a flat, monotone voice with avery thick New York Long Island accent.
Police later traced the calls and foundthe pings from Melissa's cell phone in midtown
Manhattan, on Long Island and alsoin Massapekle Park. And of course,
all this data that I'm saying aboutthese pings and the burner phones and the
cell towers, they have huge significancewhen it comes to fingering a suspecting to

(57:07):
that next episode. Now, infact, making these taunting phone calls just
might be the Long Island serial Killer'sbiggest mistake. More on that later.
Now here's something else that's crazy.To accelerate the search for Melissa Bouthomy's remains,
her family hired a psychic who providedtantalizing clues that would prove prophetic.

(57:30):
The psychic said Melissa would be foundin a shallow grave along the shore near
a sign with the letter G.She was in fact found in a shallow
grave along the shore of the AtlanticOcean at Gilgo Beach. I mean,
how much crazier could this shit get? Right? A third Gilgo for victim

(57:50):
was Megan Waterman. Megan was describedas a force to be reckoned with and
definitely not a pushover. She wasa mother and only twenty two years old
when she was last seen alive atapproximately one thirty am at a holiday inn
in hopog Long Island on June six, twenty ten. At that time,
Megan was engaging in sex work tosupport her family. On June fifth,

(58:13):
twenty ten, Megan's cell phone wascontacted by a Burner cell phone again which
had just been activated that day.Thereafter, Megan's phone communicated with this Burner
phone on June six, twenty tenat approximately one thirty one am, which
is around the same time Megan wascaptured on video exiting that holiday inn in
Hopog for the last time. Followingthat communication, the Burner cell phone had

(58:37):
no further activity. However, cellsite records show that Megan's phone traveled to
Massapequa Park and the last cell sitelocation being in Massapeka Park was at approximately
three eleven am. Meghan Waterman's bodywas discovered wrapped in burlap at Gilgo Beach
on December thirteen, twenty ten.Upon investigation of Megan's body, Caucasian female

(59:00):
hares were found near Meghan's head andstuck to some tape she had been bound
with. Once again, these hairsdidn't belong to Megan. A Caucasian male
hair was also found located at thebottom of the burlap sack used to wrap
Megan in. Now, finally,this one's pretty crazy. Finally we have

(59:21):
Amber Lynn Costello. Now. AmberCostello was a twenty seven year old sex
worker last seen leaving her home inWest Babylon on the south shore of Long
Island during the late evening hours onSeptember second, twenty ten. The day
prior to her disappearance, Amber's cellphone was contacted multiple times by a Burner

(59:42):
cell phone. During those communications,the Burner cell phone connected to cell towers
in West Amityville and in Massapequa Park. Thereafter, the Burner cell phone traveled
to West Babylon in proxim in proximityto where Amber was living, and had
contact with Amber's phone at approximate twelveo five am on September second, twenty

(01:00:02):
ten. Around this same time,a prostitution client showed up at Amber's home.
Now Amber lived with Heroin Addicts andAmber two. She was a heroin
addict and she and her roommate,a guy named Dave Shaler. They ran
this scam, a scam only ragingaddicts could think up. You see,

(01:00:24):
Amber would place Internet ads for escortservices and when men answered, Amber would
invite them to her place what's calledin calls in the biz. When clients
arrived at Amber's place for these incalls, they'd pay her cash for her
services, and before anything could happen, Dave Shaler, her roommate, would

(01:00:45):
jump out, pretending to be thisenraged boyfriend. The clients would get scared
flee the home, and Amber keptthe money without having to engage in sex.
So on this night September second,twenty ten, a client entered the
home Amber and Dave executed the scam. The client left and Amber kept the
cash easy peasy. Now, beforehe left, this client said he was

(01:01:10):
quote just Amber's friend, and hetold Dave Shaller to quote tell Amber,
I'll give her a call, andthen he walked out the front door.
Now, based on an interview atShaller, he said this client was large.
Ogrish was the term he used.He was white, approximately sixty four
to six six in height, inhis mid forties, with dark, bushy

(01:01:32):
hair and big oval style nineteen seventiestype glasses. What would prove to be
a very accurate description. Now,outside of Amber's house, Shaller noticed that
this particular client had a dark greenfirst generation Chevy Avalanche parked in the driveway.
Next at approximately one eighteen am onSeptember second, Amber cell phone received

(01:01:57):
a text message from this client's burnerphone and it said, quote that was
not nice, So do I geta credit for next time? End quote.
Phone records show that this Burner phonewas located in Massupico Park within two
minutes of this text being sent.This massive Pico park keeps coming up,
keeps coming up. So does MidtownManhattan. It's like, you know,

(01:02:19):
every time, he says, MassapicoPark, guys take a shot. It's
right. Well, there we gonow. Later in the day, on
September second, twenty ten, Amberwas again contacted by the same client from
the night before, the one withthe Chevy Avalanche. The client said he
wanted to see her again, buthe didn't want to go to the house
because of her boyfriend. Later,still on September second, at approximately nine

(01:02:43):
thirty two pm, that same Burnercell phone again contacted Amber's phone. During
this communication, the Burner phone useda cell tower in Midtown Manhattan. The
phone then traveled to the Messapko Parkand had contacts with Amber's phone at approximately
ten thirty nine PM and again ateleven oh five pm. Cell tower records

(01:03:04):
indicate that approximately eleven to seventeen PM, the bernerfhone traveled the West Babylon in
proximitately in proximity to Amber Costello's house. Around the same time the bernerfhone ping
near Amber's house, Amber, forwhatever reason, left her own cell phone
behind, walked out her front door, and was never seen alive again.
A few minutes after Amber left herhouse, Dave Shaller observed a dark remember

(01:03:28):
Dave Shalloer's he roommate ran one inthe scam. Dave Shaller observed a dark
colored truck past the home, comingfrom the direction Amber had walked in.
We presume this was the client's ChevyAvalanche and Amber was inside. Amber's body
was discovered wrapped in burlap at GilgalBeach on December thirteenth, twenty ten,

(01:03:49):
along with Melissa Bartholomy and Making Watermen. An examination of Amber's body revealed that
she had been bound by three piecesof clear or white duct tape, and
a Caucasian female hair was recovered froma piece of that tape located near Amber's
head. And again the hair didnot belong to Amber. So that's the

(01:04:10):
Gilg four. Four sex workers discoveredmurdered at Gilgo Beach on the south shore
of Long Island. Same manner ofdeath, similar appearance, same body position,
all evenly spaced out, and allwere discovered while police were searching for
Shannon Gilbert. Now, as Imentioned earlier, Shannon Gilbert's body was finally
found on December thirteenth, twenty eleven. Now you got to stop here for

(01:04:33):
a moment and just kind of reallythink about this. If it weren't for
Shannon's disappearance, none of this wouldhave come to light. If police weren't
out searching for Shannon, the GILGfour wouldn't have been found, and police
would have not a fucking idea thata serial killer was in their midst picking
off prostitutes. So, really,Shannon, she's kind of the unsung hero

(01:04:54):
in this whole thing, this twisted, horrible story. Her death is kind
of the lynchpin in this much larger, ho horror story. Who knows how
long the Long Island serial killer wouldhave gone undetected slaughtering sex work sex workers
at will had it not been forShannon. Now, what's interesting is that
even though Shannon Gilbert fits the LongIsland serial killer victim profile nearly to a

(01:05:15):
t, police do not link Shannon'sdeath to the Long Island serial killer.
For one, her body was locatedin a marshy area just about a half
mile from Joe Brewer's Oak Beech home. Remember the guy that hired her,
Yeah, which she fled early inthe morning of May one, twenty ten.
So she was not located near theGilgo four, nor was she strangled.

(01:05:39):
She wasn't wrapped in burlap or boundby belts or tape, and she
wasn't positioned like the other four women. What police say happened is that Shannon
fled into the Marshy area trying toescape someone or maybe a few someones,
either real or imagined. And sinceit was dark and the reeds were so
high and the ground mushy, almostlike quicksand, and in a drug fueled

(01:06:02):
state, police believe she simply drowned. That from all the running, running
around, panicking high on drugs,she got lost in the weeds, trip,
fell, ran out of gas,and drowned. However, Shannon's remains
were found face up, which isuncommon for a drowning victim, right right,

(01:06:25):
They're usually found face down. Andsurprisingly, Shannon's initial autopsy revealed that
no drugs were in her system,and her cause of death was actually listed
as undetermined. How long can drugstay in a system? We did,
we did an episode on this.You know the answer that I don't.
I don't remember. I don't remembereither. I'm just curious as too.

(01:06:46):
It's been so many months, right, yeah, and they found their seven
months You said they could hang outfor a while enough or like they could
still tell yes, yes, becausewe'll get into other victims later that were
kind of hanging around for and theytell you a little less and they could
tell there was cocaine in their system. You can tell their alcohol in the
system, Okay. I mean,I'm sure you could tell signs in a

(01:07:08):
body that a prolonged use of asimilar drug. Sure, But is that
the same as knowing whether or notthere was drug in the system when they
died. But I'm guessing the answeris yes, yes, and they can
tell. Okay, But I meanthat's the whole thing is the police were
saying. The story is that,yeah, she was fucked up and she
just you know, death by misadventure, but no drugs were in her system,

(01:07:29):
explained that, and she was faceup right. Yeah, I wonder
how much like I mean, firstof all, you're right about the unsung
hero aspect has so weird. Well, you know, it's not really,
isn't it, because it's always thatone thing, that one thing something happens.
In her case, maybe she gotwise to the ruse a lot faster
and panicked and try to run awayand got a window of running away and

(01:07:54):
living, alerting others, and thatwas enough. It was not enough to
save her, obviously, but enoughto search for her and then therefore and
expose this whole thing. Yeah.I'm trying to understand becaus you mentioned before
at your opening that there's like statelines cross and stuff like that going on
here. I'm like, why isit called Long Island? Now I get
it, it's it seems it seemsto be the home. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:08:16):
yeah, that's where it all began. Kind of whether he actually started
there, we don't know, butthat's all. That's one of the questions
I had. There's no way hestarted with Maureen. That's what I'm thinking
too. No way, you don'tstart with a a with a set in
mind dexter esque fucking profile where youseparate them five five hundred. No way.
Yeah, that's not his first kill. Fucking way. All right,

(01:08:39):
this is anyway, continue all right. So Shannon's family, they weren't satisfied
with the police's theory, nor werethey satisfied with the initial autopsy findings,
so they went out and hired theirown expert to conduct a second autopsy.
And who did they hire none otherthan world renowned medical examiner doctor Michael Baden,

(01:09:01):
who I used to watch on theHBO series Autopsy back in the day.
I loved this show. So thisthis guy, I mean, he's
known all over the world, incrediblyfamous. That's who they hired to do
the second autopsy. Now, itwas doctor Badden's professional opinion that Shannon actually
met a violent fate, that shewas strangled to death due to the fact

(01:09:26):
that a very small yet significant what'scalled the hyoid bone in her neck yes
cracked. This bone was cracked,proving that her death was homicide by strangulation,
which would match how the Gilgo fourwere killed. It was also discovered
by Michael Badden that there was ahole in her hyoid b hired one,

(01:09:47):
almost like something was drilled or pushedthrough it. A syringe maybe. And
in fact, John Ray, aguy named John Ray who's the lawyer for
Shannon's family, believed Shannon never evenentered the marsh that fateful morning. She
was likely placed there. According toJohn Ray, who grew up on Long
Island and is very familiar with thisarea where Shannon disappeared and where she was

(01:10:09):
found, it's nearly impossible to getlost in this marsh area that weighs out
can easily be found, and hesaid that the ground isn't a kin to
quicksand and that water at the timeof the year when Shannon disappeared is nowhere
high enough to drown in the tideisn't high in March. I guess not.
But there's the thing I don't know, because I've seen video. You

(01:10:30):
can find video online of police lookingfor Shannon in this area that we're talking
about. There's kind of no man'sland, and it's so dense they have
to use what looks like a tractoron tank treads to search. Literally.
There's other video and photos of policein like a bucket truck and this bucket
truck like think of utility workers whogo up in the bucket trucks to work

(01:10:54):
on power lines and shit, yes, cops were standing in one of those
things over this no man's land tohave a bird's view. That's how thick
this shit is. They actually hadto try to get a bird's i view.
They can't just look in right fromthe street level and do something about
this in general or something it getrid of it. I mean, I'm
not you know, if we're gonnacement over everything might as well fucking do

(01:11:14):
it right and not have places wherewe can't search in right, because this
is what happens. Let's not doit half ass, is my point.
If we're going to destroy the world, this is not doing half as here,
That's what I'm saying. So yougot you got this this lawyer saying.
One thing video I've seen it lookspretty goddamn treacherous. I don't know.
But something else that's weird is thatinvestigators found articles of Shannon's clothing,

(01:11:35):
like her jeans and shoes, alongwith her purse and her cell phone,
not near her body. They werea quarter mile away from where her body
was found. Police can't claim thatShannon's jeans were pulled off by brambles as
she ran through the march, likebushes tore them off her and her shoes
were more or less sucked off herfeet by this sludgy you know ground just

(01:11:57):
pulled their going on here, right, everything in the story's fucked up now.
Sadly, we'll never know what reallyhappened to Shannon. Was it simply
an unfortunate accident, or was shemurdered and if so, by whom The
Long Island serial killer someone else.Now, I'm sure you're dying to know.
And yes, Michael Pack, Shannon'sdriver, and Joseph Brewer, the

(01:12:19):
man Shannon was visiting that night,were both cleared by lie detector tests as
suspects in Shannon's death. Officially,they're not involved, and to this day,
no one's been brought to justice,no one's been charged in his death.
All we know is that in Shannon'snine one one call that you heard,
she said, somebody's after me.They're plotting to kill me. They're
going to kill me, and shewinds up bed. I mean, so,

(01:12:48):
I said, there's twenty. We'veonly covered five. In addition to
the four women, the gilg four, and Shannon Gilbert, the remains of
an additional five people were discovered upand down Ocean Parkway near Gigle Beach,
found in that no man's land betweenOcean Parkway and the Atlantic Ocean. And

(01:13:08):
here's where it gets super weird,because the mo and victim type of the
following people are completely different than thegig four and even Shannon Gilbert, so
different in fact, that it's gotsome people believing that there are actually multiple
serial killers operating at the same time. And coincidentally burying their victims on Long

(01:13:28):
Island off Ocean Parkway. Oh man, that's almost I know you're about to
say it, but that feels verybelievable. I know it sounds insane to
think that there'd be two working serialkillers around the same time, in the
same area and when not know eachother, right, Oh, I get
into hold on. I know it'stempting to say that they don't know each
other, but the fact that thesemarshes are there so right there easy access

(01:13:51):
to, like really hard to approachterrain, Yes, why not bury them
there? You know, I guessthat's one way to look at it.
Another way I look at it isthis place is so fucking remote. It
is if you look on a map, this is remote. How many people
know it's there to dump in?Well, no, you have to grow
up, you have to know it, right Yeah, yeah, no,

(01:14:13):
No, I'm with you on thatthat they probably work in the same area
for sure. I'm just saying thatI can see them be independent from each
other. Because it's just so people. I will bury about it there.
People, I'm gonna do right nowsaid all the fun of it, because
you're left out. I kind ofdo yeah, I don't mean to laugh.
It's fucked up, but yeah,I get it. I get what
you're saying. Yeah, we don'tknow, we don't know. So what

(01:14:35):
are these bodies? All? Right? So taking a look at these other
victims. The first one we haveis Jessica Taylor, now twenty year old.
Jessica Taylor was a sex worker fromWashington, DC who disappeared from New
York City. She was last seenon July twenty first, two thousand and
three, either working at the PortAuthority bus terminal in New York City,

(01:14:58):
or she was last seen hustling atplace called Queen's Plaza in Queens, New
York. There's two different stories onthis point either way. Sadly, on
July twenty sixth, two thousand andthree, Jessica's naked torso was found partially
decomposed, lying exposed on top ofa plastic sheet in the pine barrens of
Manorville, New York. Jessica's headand hands they were missing, and a

(01:15:23):
distinct hattoo that read Remy's Angel washorrifically gouged up the killer's crude attempt at
hindering identification. Now much later,in April twenty eleven, Jessica's head and
her forearm were found at Gilgo Beach. Now things completely changed. Like I
said, the other victims intact,laying a certain way, evenly spaced.

(01:15:47):
Now we have a torso that wasfound and scattered partland Manerville and others on
you know, by Gilgo Beach offOcean Parkway. Things have changed now,
yeah, I mean so many differentquestions though, yes, well let me
continue. We have Valerie Mack.Now. Valerie Mack was a twenty four
year old sex worker from New Jerseywho disappeared in the spring of two thousand.

(01:16:12):
Valerie's partial remains were also discovered inthe pine barrens in Manerville, New
York, in November two thousand,just a quarter mile from where Jessica Taylor's
torso will be found. A fewyears later, Valerie had been dismembered and
placed into multiple plastic bags. Later, on April fourth, twenty eleven,
Valerie's skull and her right foot werefound in a plastic bag on Ocean Parkway

(01:16:35):
near Gilgo Beach. Now I Gilgo, I googled this, and Manerville is
about a fifty minute drive to GilgoBeach Manorville, where part of what was
found is about fifty millus than anhour from gilg Beach. And this case
is really pretty sad, all ofthem are, but this one. The
only photos you can find of Valerieare mugshots, and she was never even

(01:16:57):
reported missing. No one knew shewas gone until the remain showed up in
the pine barrens. Just completely lostand forgotten. Yeah, it's part of
the point though, right, Imean, sex workers are kind of Yeah,
I'll get into this, but it'slike the missing missing. It's the
less dead some people call him.You know, it's really fucked up.

(01:17:23):
Now, this one's This one's strange. He's called the unknown Asian male,
the outlier, the only John Doein this case. Found on April fourth,
twenty eleven. No one knows whothis man is or how he wound
up buried off of Ocean Parkway,down the way from Gilgo Beach. He's
described as petite, five foot sixinches and between the ages of seventeen and

(01:17:47):
twenty three. Some might describe thisguy as a twink, an Asian twink,
not to be derogatory in any way, but the term Asian twink will
be important in the next episode.Okay. John Doe was found in women's
clothes and he was missing four frontteeth. It was determined that this man
died from blunt force trauma to toface, and investigators believe he was likely

(01:18:11):
an escort. There's this working theorythat the Long Island serial killer picked up
this man thinking he was a woman, but when the killer found out it
was actually a man, he beathim to death. He beat this guy
to death. I was just gonnago there, Yeah, sounds like that's
what that is. And so thethe work that this killer did on this

(01:18:36):
male's body, this man's body,or pibly them their body, did they
so his methods of hiding that theidentity of this guy actually worked, whereas
the others did not. You knowwhat I'm saying. That's a good question.
So I don't know why they haven'tbeen able to figure out because they

(01:19:00):
don't know who this guy. Tothis day, they don't know who this
guy is, right either, therewas no I'm sure they were able to
extract DNA just like they did withthese other women. Huh. And maybe
he just wasn't in a database somewhere. Maybe he was illegal here, maybe
he was trafficked here. Who knows. Oh yeah, there might not have
been. He wasn't in a database. I think it'll be so dramatic.
It's trafficked here, but immigrant maybeyou're right, right, so maybe that's

(01:19:26):
why. But yeah, they don'tknow who this person is. Matter of
fact, this next person, two, next two people I'm gonna talk about.
They don't know who the fuck theyare. They can't find they can't
find anything, Okay. Now.On June twenty eighth, nineteen eighty seven,
the dismembered torso of a woman knownas Jane Doe Number Jane Doe number
three, a young African American female, was found in Lakeview, Long Island.

(01:19:48):
Investigators reported the victim had a tattooof a peach on her left breast,
trying to help the public identify whothis was, which led to police
to give in Jane Done number three, the nickname Peaches. Peaches is what
she's known as. In April twentyand eleven, investigators discovered more of Peach's
remains, dismembered bones inside a plasticbag near Jones Beach State Park, which

(01:20:13):
is further down the Ocean Parkway fromGilgo Beach. So again, dismembered and
scattered and Peaches, like I said, unidentified to this day. Yeah.
Now, the skeletal remains of afemale toddler were discovered at Gilgo Beach on
April fourth, twenty and eleven,known as Baby Doe. She's somewhere between

(01:20:34):
the ages of sixteen to twenty fourmonths at the time of her death.
Her body was wrapped in a blanketand showed no signs of visible trauma,
and she was wearing a gold necklaceand a gold and gold ear rings when
found. DNA tests revealed that thechild's mother was actually Peaches to Jane Doe,

(01:20:55):
he just talked about So they couldtell that right by the canto.
Based on that. Any further fromthere they could tell their related mother daughter.
But no further from there. Andin this kind of final injustice,
Baby Do's killer buried her almost tenmiles away from where Peaches was buried at
Jones Beach, like the killer couldn'teven give Peaches and her daughter the kindness

(01:21:15):
of burying them together. Now,you're probably wondering how the toddler fits into
all this, and everyone wonders that. But one theory is that if Peaches
was in fact a prostitute. Ifshe fits that victim profile that we've seen
again and again already. Maybe shegot a call and to go out and
turn a trick, and she hadno one to watch her daughter, so

(01:21:36):
she brought her along for the trickand unknowingly delivered both of them into the
killer's hands. Yeah, how fuckedup is that she? Really? Okay?
The last body discovered off of OceanParkway was Karen Vergatta, a thirty

(01:21:56):
four year old prostitute from Manhattan whodisappeared on Valentine's Day nineteen ninety six.
Two months later, on April twentieth, nineteen ninety six, Karen's feet and
legs were found in a plastic bagin Davis Park, on the Bay shore
of Fire Island, to the eastof Gilgle Beach. Karen's skull was found
on April eleven, twenty eleven,off Ocean Parkway near the partial remains of

(01:22:19):
Peaches, actually not far from theremains of the original gilg four. So
with Karen Vigata, that brings thetotal number of bodies discovered off Ocean Parkway
to ten plus Shannon Gilbert. Shewas found in that marsh near Oak Beach,
Association, and believe it or not, this story doesn't stop there.

(01:22:43):
There's the Las Vegas connection. Betweentwo thousand and three and two thousand and
six, there were at least fivecases of murdered sex workers being dumped in
the desert that closely mirrored the victimson Long Island. The Las Vegas prostitutes
were all young, attractive drug addicts. Okay, they died by homicide,
either asphyxi or strangulation, and theirbodies were discarded in the desert in these

(01:23:09):
areas that are irly similar to theremoteness of Ocean Parkway where the Long Island
serial killer victims were found, andthey were all wrapped in cloth, just
like the GILG four. The GILGfour were wrapped in burlap, a different
material. But still. Even thoughall this is circumstantial and to date knowne
has been charged in the deaths ofthese Vegas women, the question still has

(01:23:32):
to be asked, was the LongIsland serial killer across country killer? If
he was, that means an untoldnumber of bodies could be scattered across the
US from the East Coast to theWest Coast. What a horrifying thought.
So let's take a look at someof these murdered women found in Las Vegas.
We have first, Victoria Camara,now originally from New Jersey. Victoria

(01:23:57):
was described as a beautiful person thatwas artist, She loved makeup and building
things, and she was someone youcould talk to about anything. But like
in so many of these stories,Victoria had a rough childhood and from day
one she had no stability. Havingbeen born to an absent father and a
drug addicted mother, Victoria became asingle teen mom, and to support herself

(01:24:19):
and her baby, she turned toprostitution as a means to survive and provide.
On August eleventh, two thousand andthree, a truck driver found Victoria's
murdered body dumped in a grassy,deserted stretch of US ninety five in Boulder
City, just outside Las Vegas.She was strangled, just like the Gilgo

(01:24:40):
victims, and she was only seventeenyears old at the time of her death.
DNA was found on Victoria, butauthorities aren't saying much other than that
the DNA from the Long Island serialkiller suspect that is in custody today is
being compared to the DNA found onVictoria, so they got something they're just
not saying what at this point.Then there was Lindsay Marie Harris, a

(01:25:02):
known prostitute. Lindsay disappeared from Henderson, Nevada, on May fourth, two
thousand and five. She was lastseen at a bank making a deposit,
and later her rental car was foundabandoned with no sign of Lindsay. This
case was actually featured on America's MostWanted and unfortunately, two weeks later,
on May twenty third, two thousandand five, kids playing in a field

(01:25:26):
near Interstate fifty five in Divernon,Illinois, about fifteen miles from Springfield,
found Lindsay's legs, very similar toKaren Vigata right, whose legs were found
on Fire Island, and nothing elsewas found of Lindsay, just for fucking
legs. Okay, so she's presumedthat, yeah, yeah, for sure.

(01:25:46):
We have Jody Brewer, no relationto Joe Brewer, right, the
one that hired Shannon Gilbert. Now. Jody Brewer was a nineteen year old
sex worker who disappeared from Las Vegason August fourteenth, two thousand and three.
That evening, Jody told her momshe was going out for the night.
She said, I love you,Ma, I'll see in the morning.
Jody's mother never saw her daughter aliveagain, and sadly, Jody's torso

(01:26:11):
was found wrapped in cloth and plasticin the Mojave Desert off California Highway fifteen
on August twenty nine, two thousandand three, two weeks after her disappearance.
A surgical saw had been used todismember her. That one you could
tell that apparently, so yeah,cuts were clean. I guess Next we

(01:26:31):
have Jessica Foster, Originally from Canada. Jessica's family believes she was sex trafficked
from Canada to Atlantic City, NewJersey, and then to Las Vegas by
a man she met in Calgary,Alberta, Canada named Donald Van's. Vans,
someone Jessica thought of as a friend, convinced her to travel to New
Jersey with them, and from therethey traveled to Nevada. Apparently during these

(01:26:56):
travels, Vans got Dreska into prostitutionat some point somehow. Once in Nevada,
Jessica hooked up with a man namedPeter Todd, who was supposedly she
was supposedly engaged to, but rumorssay he was also her pimp. Articles
I read paint Peter Todd as thisreal kind of abusive piece of shit who
regularly beat Jessica, even breaking herjaw at one point. A family member

(01:27:21):
last spoke to Jessica by phone onMarch twenty eight, two thousand and six.
At the time, she was onlytwenty one years old and living in
North Las Vegas with Peter Todd.Now Todd claims that on April third,
two thousand and six, Jessica wentto a dentist appointment, but later on
in that day, when Todd returnedhome, Jessica wasn't there and all her

(01:27:42):
belongings were gone. Now to thisday, Jessica has not been found and
no one has been charged in herdisappearance, although authorities do suspect foul play.
She left behind twenty thousand dollars ina bank account, there has been
no activity on her credit cards,and her cell phone has not been used
since March twenty eight, two thousandand six. Jessica was young, petite,

(01:28:06):
one hundred and twenty pounds. Shehad blonde hair, hazel eyes,
and stood five to six, Soshe absolutely fits the long Islan Long Island
serial killer's profile. And again listenersgo to the show notes for pictures,
but no body never found. Nopiethanshow just gone. Finally for Vegas,

(01:28:31):
we have Misty sains. Misty says. There's really not a lot of information
out there about Misty. I wasable to find out that she was twenty
five years old at the time ofher death and that her partial remains were
found wrapped in plastic and cloth offof SR one fifty nine State Road one
fifty nine near Red Rock Canyon NationalConservation Area in March March six, two

(01:28:53):
thousand and three. Now I'm tellingyou, this fucking case just goes on
and on, because we also havea potential Long Island serial killer connection to
Atlantic City, New Jersey. Intwo thousand and six, authorities were on
the hunt for a serial killer dubbedthe east Bound Strangler, a name given
to the killer based on what directionvictims heads were facing where their bodies were

(01:29:15):
discovered. Wow yep. East SideStrangler victims were women raging in age from
twenty nine to forty two years old. They were all sex workers, heavily
addicted to drugs. Their bodies wereall found intact, meaning not dismembered.
They were laying face down in awatery ditch with their heads pointing east as
if looking at Atlantic City. Andall women were fully clothed but barefoot.

(01:29:41):
They were all space three hundred andtwenty feet apart, and there were four
of them, just like the Gilgofour. All bodies. All the bodies
were discovered on November twentyeth two thousandand six, in various states of decomposition
behind the Golden Key Motel on BlackHorse Pike in Egg Harbor Town, New
Jersey. Just this shitty little hotelmotel, just outside Atlantic City. Now,

(01:30:05):
to this day, the east SideStrangler has not been caught, and
many people wonder if the East SideStrangler and the Long Island serial Killer are
one and the same. Now,the victims found in Atlantic City at this
hotel, behind this hotel, oneof them was named Barbara Briador. Barbara
Briador now Barbara came from a wellto do family in Huntington Valley, Pennsylvania.

(01:30:29):
She attended Catholic school. She wasdescribed as very smart, popular,
and great at the game show JeopardyLove Jeopardy. She even attended penn State
College for a few years. Now. Barbara's mother, also named Barbara,
owned a string of successful small storesthat sold Native American jewelry and clothes,
kind of like these Chochke bullshit shops, right, I always call them Chochke

(01:30:51):
bullshit. And her daughter Barbara workedat these stores. One day her mom
Barberade. Mom Barbara decides to sellthe businesses and moved to Florida, but
daughter Barbara wanted to stay behind.She had a boyfriend, so she gets
a job as a cocktail waitress atthe Copacabana in Atlantic City. And she
permanently moves to Atlantic City in nineteeneighty nine. And here's where everything went

(01:31:13):
to shit, And it's a sad, tired story. Girl moves to big
City, Girl meets sleeves Ball.Sleeves Ball gets girl hooked on drugs,
and down and down she goes tillshe's selling herself to support her habits and
possibly her boyfriend's habit too. WhenBarbara went missing on October seventeen, two
thousand and six, she was aforty two year old mother, last seen
leaving a duplex she stayed at withthe friend in Ventnor, New Jersey.

(01:31:39):
Barbara would not be seen again untilher remains were found on November twentieth,
two thousand and six behind the GoldenKey Motel on Black Horsepike in Egg Harbor
Township, New Jersey, which isonly a twentyish minute car ride from both
Atlantic City and Ventnor, where shewas staying. Because Barbara's remains were in
such bad state, no cause ofdeath could be determined, but there was

(01:32:01):
a potentially lethal dose of heroin foundin her system, so they worried.
We'll see that. Ah, Okay, Next we have Molly Dilts. Molly
Dilts grew up in Black Lick,Pennsylvania. Barbara Briadora was also from Pennsylvania.
Right, Molly's father described her asa good mother and a good woman,
even though she had a troubled lifestarting at about the age fifteen,

(01:32:23):
drugs, run ins with the law, high school dropout, young mother.
I read an article that said Molly'sschoolmates didn't expect her to go far in
life, which is kind of shittyto say. But no one saw her
becoming a prostitute in Atlantic City.Now, even though Molly was never busted
for sex work in Atlantic City,numerous prostitutes in Atlantic City said they saw

(01:32:45):
her work in the streets, andpoor Molly was only in Atlantic City for
a few weeks before. She disappearedsometime around October seven, two thousand and
six, the date of the lastcall she made to her family back in
Pennsylvania, and she wasn't report andmissing until several weeks later. Molly's remains
were found clad in a denim skirt, a bra, and mesh blouse behind

(01:33:08):
that Golden Key motel on November twenty, two thousand and six. She was
in bad shape because she was layingin a watery ditch for around six weeks.
Therefore, no cause of death couldbe determined. No drugs were found
in her system, but she wasfound to have a large amount of alcohol
in her system, so again theywere able to tell that right then there

(01:33:30):
was Tracy Anne Roberts. Now.Tracy was a twenty three year old mother
from Bear, Delaware, and shedisappeared from Atlantic City on November eight,
two thousand and six. Tracy wasliving in Atlantic City and working as a
prostitute to feed her raging crack habit. On the evening of November eight,
two thousand and six, Tracy calledher mom, Joyce Roberts, from the
Atlantic City Medical Center, asking hermom to come get her. A client

(01:33:55):
had beaten her up badly, andshe wanted to go back home to Delaware.
Joyce, the mother, made theninety minute drive from her home from
her home in Bear to rescue herdaughter, but she was five minutes too
late. Tracy decided not to waitaround for her mom. Instead, she
checked herself out of the hospital andreturned to the streets in the company of
two unidentified men. And that's thelast time anyone saw Tracy alive. Her

(01:34:21):
body was found less than two weekslater, again, on November twentieth,
just like the rest behind the Goldenchemotel. Is that the shortest timeframe of
finding a body in all these cases? I think can be. I think
it might be. I would haveto go back. Yeah, two weeks,
I think it is. Yes,usually months, if not yours.
Yeah, for these I mean sick, We're talking six weeks on one of

(01:34:41):
them. Yeah, you know right. It was determined that Tracy Roberts died
of asphyxia, and she had largeamounts of cocaine in her system. Joyce
Roberts described her daughter as a goodkid who loved to ride her bike,
roller skate, and hang out withfriends. Tracy began to experiment with experiment
with alcohol, drugs, and boysat the tender age of fourteen. She

(01:35:02):
dropped out of high school at sixteenand had a daughter by eighteen. Having
a daughter sobered Tracy up. Sheactually enrolled in college. Enrolled in college
and became a medical assistant. Sheeven managed to buy her own town home,
and she her daughter, her kid, and her baby's daddy, a
guy named Brian Rossello, all livedtogether in this town home and things were

(01:35:25):
going well. Tracy was really happytill the doctor's office she worked for a
moved after about a year of Tracyworking there. She was now in this
position where she couldn't afford her mortgageand I don't know why her boyfriend didn't
or wouldn't help help out paying bills. But being spiraled further and further down
from there, and eventually Tracy foundherself in Atlantic City prostituting for drug money.

(01:35:47):
She worked in Atlantic City for lessthan a year before she was murdered.
In the little time she was there, Tracy made a name for herself
among the other sex workers. Theysaw her as this kind carrying woman with
a big heart, yet described heras lonely and isolated too. It's just
a sad story, a fucking sadstory. She was on the way up,
she was getting out. But howeasily the cart could get the carpet

(01:36:10):
could get ripped out from under you. And without good support system, shit
like this happens now. The fourthEast Side strangler victim was a woman named
Kim Raffo Now. Kim was borninto a broken home in Brooklyn, New
York, in nineteen seventy one.Her dad was a drug addict and her
mom was a severe alcoholic. Ultimately, Kim's parents split up in nineteen eighty

(01:36:32):
eight, and Kim, her youngersister, and her mom all moved to
South Florida, and shortly thereafter,Kim's boyfriend, Hugh also moved to Florida.
Fucking Hugh. At this point,Kim's around eighteen years old, and
she and Hugh make a fresh startin Pembroke Pines, just outside of Fort
Lauderdale. Eventually a couple marys.They have two kids, and Kim really

(01:36:57):
settles into the stay at home momrole. He's doing the pta thing,
girl scouts, She's tending to thekids into her home, all while he
was out working hard as a carpenter, just doing a great you know,
making a great living, this normalsuburban life. Right. Yeah. But
as the old saying goes, nothinglasts forever. In the year two thousand

(01:37:17):
and one, something happens that startscompletely mundane, but quickly changes and spirals
downward, out of control, lightningfast. That year, it seems Kim
got a little bored and she decidedto enroll in some cooking classes in Hollywood,
Florida. While attending these classes,Kim meets a man named Kenneth by

(01:37:40):
Lecky. Kim and Ken hit itoff and in no time they're having this
hot and heavy affair. Now Ken'snot a good guy. He's a raging
drug addict. Even his mom calledhim a raging drug addict in interviews.
And eventually Kim's husband, Hugh findsout what's going on and he nearly beats
this guy Ken to death with abaseball bat. Drama drama, drama ensues,

(01:38:05):
and who knows, maybe Hugh shouldhave finished the job, because it
was Ken by Lecky that introduced Kimto crack and that was it. Kim
and Hughes separate. Hugh takes thekids to Ocean City, New Jersey,
and in a desperate attempt to benear her kids, Kim and Ken the
attict moved thirty minutes away to AtlanticCity, which in retrospect is probably a

(01:38:28):
terrible place for a desperate woman witha crack abbot to be right, Yeah,
maybe people go there to let loosefrom there, you know, it's
like a yeah, it's a haven, exactly a negative. Arguably, Ken
and Hugh run into each other again. They get into this terrible altercation,
and this time, this time thekids are taken away and placed into foster
care. In a valiant attempt toget her kids out of foster care,

(01:38:51):
Kim tries to go straight, holdingdown odd jobs in Atlantic City, but
really it's no use. Cracks venomousclaws were dug in deep and Kim turned
to prostitution to feed her habit.She quickly became known by the drug dealers,
other prostitutes in the police and Icouldn't find an exact date when Kim

(01:39:11):
went missing, but just like theother three women, Kim was found behind
that Golden Key motel on November twentythtwo thousand and six. She was strangled
to death with the rope or acord and a massive amount of cocaine was
found in our system right now,thankfully, as far as we know,
here's where the bodies end. BeforeI close this episode, I do have

(01:39:35):
one more story left, just anothersad, fucking senseless tragedy, and I'll
get to it. But first wehave to address a rumor that constantly haunts
the Long Island serial killer case.I mean, there's tons of rumors that
haunt this case, and we'll getinto a lot of them in the next
episode. But one rumor in particularis that police, Suffolk County Police Department

(01:39:57):
just did not give a shit aboutmurdered pri institutes. It took four or
five months for someone to even goout and question Gus Coletti, the neighbor
we talked about waiting the beginning ofthe show that called the police. Oh
yeah, when Shannon showed up athis door. Yeah, back in May
twenty ten. Yeah, four orfive months after Shannon's mother, Mary Gilbert,
filed the missing person report for herdaughter Shannon. It took police a

(01:40:21):
month to figure out that the missingperson was the same person that made the
twenty three minute phone call to nineone one just before five am on May
first, twenty ten. The callwe played at the top of the show.
I didn't even know the guild.It's not surprising, which is worse,
but it is exactly the less dead, the missing missing. It just

(01:40:44):
seems like there wasn't any sense ofurgency to investigate Shannon's disappearance. Now I've
already alluded to the fact that,as of today, someone sitting in jail
accused of being the Long Island serialkiller. They're not convicted, they're accused.
This person was arrested in July ofthis year, twenty twenty three,
just a few months ago as ofthis recording, which means it took over

(01:41:05):
a decade more like what twelve yearsto arrest someone in connection with these murders.
This fact, people say, provesthere was no urgency to solve this
case and bring justice to these women, not only on Long Island, not
in Atlantic City or in Las Vegas. Because the victims were prostitutes and drug

(01:41:25):
addicts, and the women chose thisdangerous lifestyle were getting heard or killed as
a very real possibility. Why botherspending time, money, and resources on
solving their murders. They played thegame and paid the price. It's like
the police were only looking at itas missing prostitutes and addicts, and not
as missing mothers, daughters, sisters, friends. Right. In fact,

(01:41:47):
one Suffocani cops posedly said, andthis is a quote, Hey, at
least its prostitutes he's killing. It'sthis whole idea that sex workers are the
less dead, meaning that before theirmurders, these women were already deemed less
important by society, their throwaway orthey're the missing missing people who go missing

(01:42:09):
that were never reported missing in thefirst place. How do you look for
someone like that. Well, ina lot of cases, you don't.
It's even been reported that in someinstances, police have labeled cases of murdered
sex workers as NHI or no humansinvolved, fucking disgusting. Luckily, in
this case we had Mary Gilbert,Shannon's mom. Just a firecracker. Mary

(01:42:34):
was this non stop advocate for notonly her daughter Shannon, but for all
of the Gilgo Beach victims, thegil Go four. If Mary felt the
case was growing cold or being ignored, she would pop up and make a
ton of noise so police would haveno choice but to continue in investigation.
She was hard, she was confrontational, she was brash, rough around the

(01:42:55):
edges, but she used the medialike an expert to draw attention to Shannon
and the others, and she wouldcall out the Suffolk County Police without hesitation.
For years she did this. Youcould see all sorts of news articles,
you know, video of her doingthis and sadly, what's fucked up?

(01:43:15):
As our last story deals with MarieGilbert, this advocate Shannon's mom.
In a tragic case of collateral damage. July of twenty sixteen, Mary Gilbert
was murdered by Sarah Gilbert, oneof her own daughters. There were four
daughters in total. You had Shannon, our unsung hero. There was Sherry

(01:43:38):
Gilbert, Stevie Gilbert, and SarahGilbert. Sarah stabbed her mother two hundred
and twenty seven times with a fifteeninch kitchen knife, bludgeoned her mother with
the fire extinguisher, and then blastsprayed fire extinguisher foam into her mother's mouth
and down her throat. What thefuck now? Apparently Sarah had a history

(01:43:58):
of mental illness voices, suffering,hallucinations, schizophrenia, but her symptoms severely
escalated when her sister, Shannon disappeared. Sarah never recovered from that, so
I guess you could say that MaryGilbert is yet another victim of the Long
Island serial killer, if you believeShannon is one of his victims. Of
course, a victim, a physicalvictim, adds more to their families.

(01:44:23):
Everyone's a victim of that sense,absolutely, and so is Sarah, who's
so you know, currently serving twentyfive to life in prison. There's just
such a long string of bodies andvictims in this case. It's just simply
unbelievable. And waiting to hear thenext episode with the with the suspect list
again, just simply unbelievable. That'swhat I have for the victims part one.

(01:44:49):
Yeah, well, I have manyquestions, you know, let's let's
you know, if you're up toask asking some questions, I might pour
a little whiskey while I have theone that leads into another. If I
could answer some if I have togo back through some notes here, But
no, no, no, it'sokay. Es actually pretty easy. I
don't think you'll have to go throughyour notes, although you could pretend,

(01:45:09):
well, you think of an answer. That's also a tactic people use.
I w were a couple of things. Oh so from the Gilgo murders,
I think it was from the Gilgomurders. It might have been the other
one in the Ocean View one.I'm not sure. The killer taunts yes,

(01:45:30):
the sex worker friend right, itwas a sex worker in our family,
well to both both. So MarineBrainerd Barnes's friend received a call from
the man who said she's at awhorehouse, which is a very old fashioned
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'mwithstanding that. I thought the same thing.
Yeah, so this is an olderman. This is an older man

(01:45:50):
for sure. Well yeah, Imean some of these murders go back to
a long time well not a longtime, nineties. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, which I know doesn'tsound right, but it's thirty years of
dude. I read an art Iread something today that said, m hm
uh, wil Paul Rudd is asold as Wilfred Brimley was when he did

(01:46:10):
the thing. Was it batteries notincluded or some shit like that. I
only know those things so fucked upto think about. But yeah, in
the nineties, so this does doesgo back a while. But yeah,
someone called Marine's friend, and thenMelissa Bartholomew, her sister, got a
call, the one that said,hey, are you a half breed from
these burner phones. Yeah, youa half breed. I'm gonna watch your

(01:46:32):
sister Rod I did raper blah blahblah. Yes, this is a killer
nicole kind of Long Island accent,right, yeah, heavy New York Long
Island accent. They said. Okay, So, as far as I know,
that's your story. Well, Ilistened to it the whole thing.
I obvious say, I'm here.I didn't hear any other case of anybody
else doing that. No, yeah, those were the only two that we

(01:46:53):
know of that we know of.Well, I kind of I know it's
two occasions, but the same victimbecause one victim. Yeah, so it
could be significant in a way.Well, let me explain a little bit.
As far as I know, themarine Brainer Barnes's friend received a call
from what I understand, Melissa Bartholomew'ssister received a string of calls. Many

(01:47:17):
calls were made to this girl,not to so so there's not just two
calls. There's there's a lot ofcalls, okay, but mostly to Melissa
Bartholemey's sister. Okay, is thatis that? Does that seem to change
to you? No? I mean, this is a sick motherfucker who loves

(01:47:39):
pain, suffering. Control. Yeah, this is a way to control the
narrative. This is way to thatrole. Does that so it would you
call this a like an odd curvecall in the story that he doesn't do
the same kind of thing to anyother victim. Well, that's too different

(01:48:00):
people. That's just gonna say.That's going on the thought that we believe
he is one person particularly on this, does it also, Kenneth Malso,
maybe give an inside as to whowas that victim? Again? Which one
the one that he made the callsto their family? One was Melissa Bartholemy
That was the sister that received multiplecalls. And then the other one was
Marine Brainerd Barnes that's the one whosefriend received a call. But about whose

(01:48:24):
death though? Who's death Melissa Bartholemeyand marine Marine Brainerd Barnes foot both.
Okay, So do we think it'sa personal connection. I don't think so.
I don't think so. Hm.Why I just I just think it's
the killer being a sick fucker.That's it, just just to cause more

(01:48:46):
chaos simply and then never try itagain. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
I don't know. I think Idefinitely think he's older, because he's
pretty established. Like I said earlier, I mean the fact that he the
separation. Do we think the dismemoramentokay, h do you think this memoriment

(01:49:12):
is trying to overachieve a goal oftrying to sound trying to be random or
is the same killer trying to maskhis tracks? So I'm trying to think
if I'm going to give away anythinghere, right, I'm trying to remember
if I talk about this specific whatI'm doing just thinking about here, because
I mean, that's a huge question, right, Like, obviously there's two

(01:49:33):
killers. One's tearing them up,one's leaving them. Well, there's a
long list, dude, That's whatmakes it so interesting. There's such a
long list of who it could be. Serial killers changing their mo is not
unheard of. Maybe in the beginninghe was very afraid of being caught.

(01:49:56):
So because remember the dismembers are olderthan the Gilges. They they were killed
earlier. So maybe early in hiscareer he was terrified of being caught,
so he did everything he could tomake it next actly possible to identify scattering
cutting up and when he noticed fuckingno one's I'm getting away with it Scott

(01:50:17):
free. Now he's a little moreballsy. Now he's leaving them a hole.
Now, you know, maybe he'scoming back to visit because he told
Melissa Barthellami's sister that I'm gonna enjoywhat I say. I'm gonna enjoy watching
your sister rot. He's sitting therewatching from afar, you know, somewhere
on the Ocean Parkway. He knowsexactly where these bodies are because he spaced

(01:50:38):
them out perfectly. He's sitting therewatching them rot. He's loving this,
you know. So if it wasthe same person, it's not uncommon.
It's not unheard of for Sira killosto change their mo A lot of people
think they don't change. They do. They do. And maybe this is
just him being comfortable saying I'm notgetting caught. No one even knows,

(01:50:59):
there's no re and for all thisextra work. That's what I think.
Yeah, right, okay, notbad. I like that there was something
else about it. Oh, it'sfunny, not funny, funny not funny,
ha ha funny. Sad that alot of this would never be an

(01:51:19):
issue if we like regulated and legalizedsex working, saying it happens way too
often, you know. And Ithink further than that, speaking about the
victims and victimhood in general, Ithink a mark of a good society is
how how well we see our lowesttype of right, a lowest citizen,

(01:51:47):
and if since we're not seeing themat all, seems like it's really speaks
more about how bad society is aroundthem. You know. It's like that
old adage about sports. I knowthis about mainly, but I'm sure it
applies to any sport that has teams, is that a team is only as
good as his worst player. Yeah, right, A country is only as

(01:52:09):
good, or society is only asgood as his worst What would that be
called? It's worst type is worse, I guess, yeah, stance is
worse. So I don't know whateverthat word whatever the player. Well,
I mean, even if you wantto get bigle about it, Jesus washed
the feet of you know, thelowest and low hung out with criminals and
murderers and everything else. Yeah,but God forbaby, I actually do that,

(01:52:31):
you know, right, So that'sthat's a really interesting point you bring
up. Yeah, well, whenyou were talking about the thing, and
you know, I do have abit more of a connection not a real
connection, mind you. A bitmore of a bugaboo about this kind of
thing like prostitution. Yeah, it'sa it's a real weird bother for me.
It bothers me that we have suchbig problems for it. It's easily

(01:52:55):
solved because it can't be regulated.It's as easily solvable as it is about
weed. Yeah, being right,and that's was And when I was going
up, that was seen as impossiblyaverca oh yeah, no, that would
never happen. But it's happening.Well, how it is all over?
Well, how I just did it? Yeah? I thought they had actually
done it already. I didn't know. I mean maybe they implemented a wider
version of it. I just heardabout it. I don't even know how

(01:53:15):
for sure. I am on that. I didn't read the damn thing.
But and you know, surprised we'renot there. I'm surprised we're so behind.
Well certain, but it's legal inNevada if it's done in the brothels,
it's legal in two counties in Nevada. Yes, is it very specific?
We did a show on it.I know it's been a while.
Listeners go back and listen to thealien Catthouse Dennis Hof's Alien fifty. I

(01:53:39):
think bro was it fifty? Ithink you're right? Ooh nice, I'm
wrong and I think it was fifty. Yeah, because I think I jumped
down the mic. I'm like,welcome to episode forty eight. You're like,
it's fifty. Fuck yeah, right, that's right, go back and
you're right. They give a lotof it. That guy gave a lot
of information as how. I gotinto a lot of springboard topics for my
own reading, like like, oh, is that really how it works?

(01:53:59):
Interesting? Why is it now wedoing this? And I got me into
like, oh, there's a Facebookgroup that they're trying to legalize, Like
oh, that's great. You know, that's how kind of open up I
think. I think just those twocounties figured our way so Uncle Sam gets
his cut. And even they tooka long time too, because you know,
it wasn't like immediately from day one. They took a long time to
get things regulated, ticket, getprotection going, get make sure everyone has

(01:54:25):
their names and IDs for everything,you know, because that's normal. That's
how if it's whatever, you know, I mean to check, Yeah,
they check for your No, Imean not every state. I shouldn't say
I was gonna say they check foryour ide when you buy a gun,
but that's not the case in someplaces, I'm sure. So I was
gonna say that's in case here,but not most places. Maybe, So
that's a dumb analogy. I justfeel like this is gonna keep happening,

(01:54:48):
yo. Absolutely, Like if if, if you know, sex workers weren't
easy to pick off, they wouldn'tbe victims as much, I mean granted
as much. If like, ifeveryone's really quite the same, they they
trust me, they will be waymore specific about who they want, and
they'd be a lot less that's becausethey'll get away with it a lot less

(01:55:10):
times. And that brings up awhole other aspect to this is the pimp
versus the girls. And these girlsdid it themselves right, They were controlling
their own business, I mean usingthe air quotes, right, yeah.
And what happens with a pimp justyou know you hear pimp He abuses the
women. Wear's my money, bitch, giving my money? Right, yeah,
slapping the hose, the whole thing, right, that whole clan.

(01:55:32):
I think of Wayne Brady and thatskit from Chappelle Show. I have to
slap with Wayne Brady have to slapa bitch exactly. That's the impression you
get when you hear the word pimps. So these girls break away from pimps.
They don't go to pimps, theygo and run their own show.
Excuse me, uh, And shitlike this is happening where maybe they're better
off with a pimp. Pimps aresupposed to be there to keep shit in
line. I don't, I don't. I don't know what the end No,

(01:55:53):
I mean, I don't know.I would argue that one is the
slower death on the other. Yeah, exactly. I don't know how you
stop this, you know, unlessyou legalize it, right, just like
they didn't event realize it and haveit require I mean, I'm not gonna
I was about to start something.I know we're going, but I'm not
doing that. But I just feellike they're great points. I mean,
it's a great thing to discuss.It's easily solvable, That's what I'm saying.

(01:56:15):
Whos you never you know, maybein the future, like you said,
never thought we'd see marijuana get legalizedwhere it is, so that as
a kid, for sure, butyeah, that'd be interesting. But yeah,
I mean, this is just thisis one story. There's countless stories,
countless of one offs two and thatwe still don't know about. Just
think of the Chicago fifty or whateverthat was the story we did here.

(01:56:35):
That's a lot of them were notjust minorities, but minority prostitutes, yes,
or sex workers. I mean,that's right, And that's a can
we've described. We talked about howand that's a modern story, that's a
very recent story, and we describedhow. Dude, I mean, nobody
cared. Nobody gave a shit.I didn't, I had no idea about
it. Doesn't give a chic.Cops don't give a share about anything.

(01:56:57):
But even less so, you know, if you negative care for sex workers,
you know, like we're all atzero and then sex workers are negative
and the negative care give a shit. It's fucked up. It is fucked
up. N Chi. I meanthat's all that says everything? Right there?
No humans involved? Yeah, Imean, are you fucking kidding me?
Yeah? Yeah? What are thequestions you got? No? No,

(01:57:19):
I mean the rest are just Imean, like I think we should
just wait for the conspiracy for thetheories that are you sure, yeah,
because because they lead into other thingsand I might as well. Just wait,
it's fun. You're gonna make thelisteners wait. Yeah, I mean
for what they want to hear questions. They want to hear answers, Jay,
and I know you don't have answerscapital A because this guy's in cod

(01:57:42):
but well he we think he is. But we want to hear your details
so we can give better questions.Yeah, yeah, that's what. Even
though there's someone sitting in jail rightnow accused of murdering three of twenty,
some of the other theories that areout there are pretty tantalizing. They make
sense, they really do. Theycould make complete sense. Do they have

(01:58:03):
the right guy? What do theyhave on this? I have one question.
My question is that how much dowe do you think? Not weak,
because I know you speak for bothof us, but how much do
you think that Shannon is actually partof the serial killers troupe? Fuck me
because I thinking I'm thinking no,dude, I've been wrestling with this for
the last four months. I'm thinkinga little bit no, I'm thinking a

(01:58:25):
little no, she's the real oneoff I mean the Twink. Maybe I
know it's not the real but inthe Twink are both but not not really
I kind of go with your theory. That was my first theory too,
as you were saying it, like, I think, you know, this
guy thought that her that his pictureor her party white you can call her,
her picture was biologically female, andhe was surprised they wasn't beat the

(01:58:46):
fuck out of them, you know, beating death. You know that that's
the predominant theory. That's pretty solid. But you're going to see something and
I use that term Asian twink specificallybecause that's going to come back to Hanas
in the next episode. So whenyou put it in the next episode's light,
then you start thinking, we'll waita minute, is this exactly what
this guy wanted? But then hehated himself afterwards and then beat the fuck

(01:59:10):
out of the guy and killed him. It gets a little great. Then
well what about Shannon? Yeah,man, Shannon is that's weird? I
mean, you heard the nine oneone call. Something is wrong with her?
She is, she's not She's addledin some way, drugged, petrified.
I'm leaning more towards drugged. Butno drugs were found in her system,

(01:59:32):
So what was fucking wrong with heron that call? Did you look
up dogs that go away? Fromtheir system. I didn't know, that'll
comment, I assume, But I'massuming. I'm assuming police and Michael Badden
and the original autopsy would have searchedfor that. I guess. Well,
I'm not saying I I don't believethe police if they said they didn't find

(01:59:54):
any I'm just curious as to whatcould have been unnoticed that isn't just crack
or heroin or whatever, you know, the common ones. There are certainly
medicinal, medicinal medicine, medicinal itemsthat would probably leave the system at some

(02:00:15):
point. I'm guessing yeah, Idon't know, because and that brings me
to the hyoid one with the fuckinghole of the hyo owed one. You
know, was she given an injectableof some kind that is untraceable after either
either initially or after a certain periodof time. Was it rising? We
don't know, we don't know.According according to the cops, there were

(02:00:35):
nothing there, and even Michael Baddendidn't say anything about drugs they found it.
That's such a big thing to holdback. But was she And I
just I just I just don't know. I just don't know. It's when
you hear that nine of one callthere is not a ruckus in the background.

(02:00:57):
A party men's voice is drunk andfucked up. It's you hear Michael
Pack for a little bit, andyou hear Joe Brewer for a little bit,
and then they're Shannon, of course, because one of them getting I
feel that. You know, therewere there were other people at this house,
and there were a party going on, and you know, no no

(02:01:18):
parties and uh, and something happenedthere. She was running from someone specifically,
But you don't hear that in thenine one one call. You hear
two people. So I I reallydon't know now I talk about this in
the next episode. But Shannon wasknown to have just like her sister who
killed her, the mother, theyhad mental issues. Supposedly, you know,

(02:01:38):
Shannon had I think schizophrenia to somedegree, maybe mix that with whatever
she was given. She was knownto use drugs. They say, So,
I don't know. You can't tellif someone has a weed, right,
can you. I don't know.I don't know. I'm not in
the If you free base something comparedto injecting something, that's way different.

(02:01:59):
Is it gonna staying the lungs thatyou're really gonna like find that in there
easier. I really don't know biology. I'm just saying, yeah, I
don't I'm not educated enough on it. I am prepping our listeners because I
feel like my right now statement isto say that Shannon might be too coincidental,
might be not an actual victim,and that circumstantial thing that led to

(02:02:21):
opening all this wild wide open.Sure, yeah, that's great in a
way, the unsung hero aspect.Not that I want anyone to die to
find the deaths of others. That'snot a good thing, no, No,
But yeah, and you know,I think that she might be I'm
not saying it was her. I'mnot saying what the cops said either,
that it was an accent that shedrawn myself. I'm not saying that either.

(02:02:41):
I'm just saying that her death mayhave nothing to do with anyone else.
Yeah, and you could be totallyright, man. Yeah. Anyway,
And that's my little theory going intothe second partner. If I go
with Michael Badden's theory, then yeah, she's part of it. Something.
She was murdered because that hired one, right, and then there was a
I guess I've said it a fewtimes, and I apologize, but there's

(02:03:01):
that hole in the hyoid bone thatties to potentially a suspect, A potential
suspect that we'll talk about in nextepisode foul play. You know. Well,
then that's the other question too.Was it the Long Island serial killer
or was it someone else who killedher? Yeah, it's well that we'll

(02:03:23):
probably never know. I guess,I guess I got to stop there because
now we're getting into revelations for nextepisode. I want to It's like,
great now unless we just power throughand record that next episode right now and
they satisfy you. Yeah, Imean, I definitely want to know anyway,
But yeah, I got nothing else. I'm good, It's okay.

(02:03:43):
Yeah. Well, hey listeners,Oscar, I hope you liked the episode.
I hope you like the topic Ido. Stay tuned for the next
episode. It's a it's a doozy. It is a doozy, and check
the show notes for photos. Sendus an email. If you have any
thoughts or questions about this episode,contact at Chicago Ghost Emails. It's one

(02:04:06):
more, folks, contact at ChicagoGhost podcast dot com. And with that,
I will say, what do we, Oskar? Take us home?
Fuck you remember it? I meanhow how much more can you keep going?

(02:04:57):
Can you estimate the pages? Oh? I could probably easily do another
ten to fifteen pages. Really,there's so many twist and turns in minute
details in this case, it's crazy, so many theories, so many it's
nuts. It's nuts that I loveit. It's a horrible thing to say,
but I love it. It's awonderful There's an audience for this,

(02:05:20):
of course. Yeah, not evena niche audience, mind you. No,
No, we never cheersed. No, we did. And if you're
gonna open that monster, probably crackit now, right I did, or
unless you want to crack it oncamera and video? Oh you did you
try? No? Audio? Yousay capo? Then video, which arguably
the same thing. See, I'mtripping over my words already. Did you

(02:05:43):
try the monster? Did you likeit? It's okay? Yeah, okay.
Maybe I want it a little better, or maybe I expect it too
much, but it's still good.I would drenk good. I think for
me, they go down way tooeasy. It's a problem. No,
not that for me, But I'vebeen drinking a lot of the zero shure
reversions of things. Maybe also we'regetting older, dude, it's a good
idea. Yeah, you doing thatnot as much as I should obviously,

(02:06:08):
I mean obviously me, I meannot not either. I'm a fucking mess,
like like legit mesas quoth you're apsychiatrist. What do we do?
I started a recording like a no, but like, uh, I wanted
to come back, like I don'tknow, like a few trust onands,

(02:06:31):
Like I wanted to just start itand we just see how I feel this
and when we fuck it out,it's fine, we'll go back and start
over and no big deal. Ijust haven't stupid, no, no,
like I thought, I'm like likelike we run to the mics like wait,
wait, wait for me, waitfor me, you're sore, and
like your heroes like sit down allheavy and like, oh, I say,
oh, I just ran to gethere. I don't know, like
it's stupid. I know, No, it's not stupid. It just sounds
a little it just seems a littlefake, unnecessary. I wanted people to

(02:06:55):
laugh or something. Don't worry,I will make fun of you and people
we will laugh. Wait, I'llstay with your debilitating age as I always
do. Yeah no, that said, if you want how about this,
how about we start with the material. What do you mean start with the
material way for the opening until afterI went to material. Oh, I

(02:07:17):
don't know. How is that moredoctor? What you're doing? He's reading
a fucking script. What is goodis that? That keeps does that all
the time. But it's not cuttingthe audio or no, it's not.
Remember that was a work okay,wabe for the countdown, I can't believe
we're doing this. That's a that'sa no. Your non answer is an

(02:07:44):
answer? Yeah, five four,motherfucking three, motherfucking two. I can
hear all of that. Oh god, no, no, it's just it's
fine, it's fine. I'm reallytrying to be conscious about the feat thing,
like that's kind of oh my godthat I mean, it's not loud,

(02:08:09):
but I hear it. Yes.Oh. I also brought a new
fans to the show, maybe several. Awesome. One of my dates talking
about my podcast to all my datesbecause they all asked me, what do
you do? You know? AndI'm like, I eventually get around to
saying, like I do podcast doI do this? So defeated because like

(02:08:30):
I do podcasting? Oh? Really, like what I'm like, I do?
I used to do this this showand now I do, and they're
like, well you do all thatmy Yeah, my partner does more so
research, but I read. I'vehad bunches of them speeding, you know,
And they're like they just asked meall these things. I'm like,
what's the name of it? Likeit's Chicago's own super Actually I forgot our

(02:08:52):
Westside for a good minute there.But like, if you look up super
mess studying, I'm sure you findpeople's phone and put it in for them.
Yeah, I should just do thatonly but he just you guys just
don't seem to age, Like,yeah, I don't see age on your
guys's face. I don't know howhe does it. I know how I
do it. I just not marryno kids easy. I know why I
do it. I know why.It's because for me, I don't know

(02:09:13):
how he does it either. Idon't know how he does because he's both
those things, and he's lived prettyrough, like he's he's had a rough
couple of rough the Ringers, youknow. And yes he still looks he
looks good, Dode I work.He has more excy than anyone else there,
and he does one of you,Yeah, seemingly

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Episode 152: Long Island Serial Killer - The Victims

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 152: Long Island Serial Killer - The Victims