Episode 153: Long Island Serial Killer - The Suspects - Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:34):
Welcome to the one hundred and fiftythird episode of the Supernatural Accurrent Studies podcast
So Serial Killery Paranormal Jason Knight,host of the show and with me as
always is. The name is SpectorOscar Spector, producer extraordinaire and podcast co

(00:55):
host. Okay, you good,I think so. I said, guys,
this guy is Jonesing. I gotthis new whiskey sitting right next to
me, and and I just said, like, a we should try it
on air in our opening. Andso he's it's the class has been sitting
there and he's constantly I reached forthat glass ten times in the last ten

(01:18):
minutes. Yes, I just keepsAnyway, we were going to try this,
Yeah, yeah, I'm really excitedabout it. But this is a
take two for us. Oh yeah, so I think you were going to
mention it. Okay, Yeah,Long Island Serial Killer Part two The Suspects.
We already recorded this episode last week. Yeah. I was not happy
with it. No, you weren't. I did not like the way the

(01:38):
way I came out on it,and I was very upset. I remember
you said that. I didn't thinkit was that bad as you said,
But you are I mean, youare your own worst critic, and I
didn't argue with you either. I'myea, let's do it again, No
big deal. Yeah, I appreciatethat. I felt bad. You came
all the way up and I wasn'ton my Well, the trade off is
I get to drink your booze andwhiskey, So like, I'm fine with

(01:59):
it. Oh oh yeah, fairenough. At least you could do long
Drive. I don't know. Icame into that episode kind of went to
chip on my shoulder. I wasa little angry at life that day and
it kind of carried over into thatrecording, and I just I like to
be one take Jay, you callit one time? Was at one take
Jay? There were edits and fuckups and oh yeah there was one.

(02:22):
There was one one five cup thatwe had to edit around if I were
to do that show. Yes,one's enough. So here we are again,
right, I'm really excited to finallyget into this episode. I know
you took more notes, yes,to ask more questions or theorize even deeper
on this episode. I took Iwas even taking you shouldn't do those listeners,

(02:44):
But I am I'm not a professional, but I feel like I am.
Some of these notes I took whileI was driving my way here.
I'm just gonna scroll for you,okay from here from the very top.
Yeah, one, two, four, holy ship up to five good swipes
up to there, so six swipesYeah on your screen. Holy shit.

(03:07):
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Mm hmm. Well, I do
have the benefit of that. Ido have the hindsight of we did shoot
that up when I shoot, butwe did, you know, we core
that episode is to take two,so I we know the information going in.
So it helps that I have allthese you know, new things.
So that as cold as usual,right right, right cool. I'm usually
the you know, the odd manout and figuring it out for the first

(03:29):
time, like our listeners along withthem. So like, and I'm in
the moment thinking of questions, butoftentimes you think of better ones after,
you know, always this is theafter. This is why I thought of
more, because like I have moretime to think about it. Process ruminance
good, then this should be areally good ruminate. That's not a word
rumenus. I think I put remnanteruminus. Yeah, I like it though.

(03:52):
Yeah, I understood what you saidbecause I just glossed English is whatever
English is whatever we're contextual language.It doesn't even really work. No,
yeah, that much incredibly confusing language. What else? So Thanksgiving came and
gone? That's right, Happy Thanksgiving? Motherfuckers related Thanksgiving? Yes, and

(04:15):
yeah, yeah, there we go. That's it. I try to I
mean, I got nothing. It'sn'teither, I mean to me, Thanksgiving
is the in between holiday between twobetter holidays. See, I really enjoyed
things. I know you came upThanksgiving. Oh that's right, the first
time ever, first time, LikeI've seen you in a lot of different
times, like I've seen you.I think I've seen you for New Year's
Yeah, so yeah, I neverseen you for Christmas. But that's a
very family thing. I haven't brokenthat barrier yet. I've seen you for

(04:39):
four the jivet many times, Halloween, Halloween a bunch of times, many
times for that too. It's justour first Thanksgiving. It was and it
was very nice. It was verynice. We're still drinking. The wedding
is in June. The wedding registryis at Creighton Barrel right in linens and
things we mainly want the things Idon't I think either of those stores are

(05:00):
still open? Are they? Theycan't be. I don't know's I've never
been to any really dated ourselves onthat one. Well we are dating.
Oh my god, this is gonnabe I have almost forty pages. Yes,
this is gonna go off the reilsquick, yes, uh so?
Yeah. Thanksgiving was great. Gladyou came up here. We are going
to release this episode sometime in Decemberbefore Christmas. It will not be after

(05:26):
Christmas, I promise that. Doyou uh real quick on Thanksgiving? Real
quick? What are your thoughts?It seems to be like your thoughts on
Thanksgiving is to always have a turkey. Yes, you're very pro turkey?
Yes? Why are you pro turkey? Oh it's simply tradition, right,
Okay, that's so I didn't Ifigured it as much, you know,
because you didn't watch football either.But I know you're not sports guy.

(05:47):
I'm not really a sports guy,thank god. Honestly, thank honestly.
I wouldn't come here if you expectedme to watch sports with If the Bears
are playing, if the Packers areplaying, if New Orleans is playing,
I'll watch for sure, But Icut the cord. So it's very hard
to find God. NFL live NFLgames pro for me so often. We
saw Charlie Browns Thanksgiving though, Ohwe did. Did you say and watch
that with us? Yes? Yeah? And Jason Jason versus Michael Myers thing

(06:09):
don't walk, Oh yeah, don'toh Michael the Jason Michael Miles were white
right right? What the fan?The fan I'm trying to think of what
was called? Doesn't matter. Peoplecan look. I would like them to
look at U because it's YouTube,just Jason versus Michael Myers. Yeah,
YouTube, Okay, there you go, YouTube Jason Versus Michael Myers. I
don't know the name of it.It's a fan made film. It is
fantastic. It's fun. Yeah,it's a lot of fun, pretty much

(06:31):
Hollywood quality. And there's also onecalled, uh, never Hike in the
Woods alone, Never hike again.Never never hike in the Woods alone,
I think, which is another fanmade, two part fan made Friday thirteen.
Fantastic, just fantastic. Anyway,I was asking about the Turkey is
because I was listening to uh,you know, I just do a podcasts
and or talk to people about Thanksgivingor brown Thanksgiving, so that's a topic

(06:55):
and I never liked turkey it's aweird bird. I usual don't like it
when it's made. I did likeyours. I did like yours. You're
one of the very few that thatmade it well. But ultimately, and
I heard there's in another podcast.I'm not going to name them or whatever
because that's free advertising for them.But then they're good. They're doing good
by the way they were like,we never do turkey that we do ham

(07:18):
or we do something else, andlike the reason is because turkey is just
so hard to get right. Itcould go wrong so oftenoy other meats are
much easier to deal with, andyou have way more options to taste,
and that like if you could getthe same things the same result with less
effort, And I'm like, Ilike that, and so that's why I

(07:41):
want to ask you. Yeah,it's purely tradition. I enjoy cooking it.
I like working out. I thinkI worked on that one for like
six and a half hours, andit's constant monitoring and monitoring and basting and
making sure the heat is right andthat skin is getting crispy and you're getting
the drippings underneath. I did likethe skin. It was good skin.
Yeah, Like people in my familyfight over the skin of turkeys. I

(08:01):
saw that. I saw a littlebit of that. I had to take
it without anyone, Like. Ididn't ask. I just took it because
I'm like, I'm not gonna wentI gotta give anyone that says turn first
kidding me. Yeah, well,I'm glad you liked it. And we're
still drinking your orchata. Yeah,I saw that. You know, it
doesn't have a high shelf LI fight, Oh, drink it fast. Well,
thanks, it's about as long asthe milk is so like, so
we got to finish it quick.Yeah, okay, really good. By

(08:24):
the way, I'm glad you likeit. You're a chatta is very good,
thank you. But speaking of drinks, right, let's get into so
what do we have here? Wehave all right, So I couldn't find
this anywhere in any of my store, so I ordered online. I paid
probably too much for this. Butit's Bargetown Bourbon m h. And it's
their collaborative series. Now. Ifound out recently about two years ago,

(08:46):
two or three years ago, thePritzker family bought Bargetown Bourbon. Pritzker is
famously for those sprinkler systems. Nosprinkler he's the governor of Illinois. Sprakler
Pritzel. So his family, Ohno, he does pretzels. Is that
a thing? I'm just playing withthe name of us. Yeah, so

(09:09):
your governor's family, Oh, boughtthis distillery in Kentucky, Bardstown, which
is known for putting out good whiskey'sas it is, And this is a
collaborative series where they age the Bardstownwhiskey in Goose Island stout barrels. They're
gonna say Republican votes, no,no, uh, they actually aged the

(09:33):
whiskey in Goose Island stout barrels.So it's that collaborative series. And Prince
Gerson's he's a governor of Illinois.Makes sense they're using Goose Island. So
I really wanted to try this,okay, And I just got it in
the mail a few days ago.We just popped it tonight, poured it
out about fifteen minutes ago, andit is smelling. Oh, I love

(09:56):
the smell. I'm smelling like Ican't the apple. Oh, don't ask
me to identify the smell. Ijust like it like a a taffy,
kind of like a buttery taffy.I was it's really gonna be like bourbon
reviewers. So I have an ideafor a show. Okay, oh definitely

(10:16):
Apple. Yeah, let's try thisbaking spice. There's something else there.
I feel it more on the waydown. I feel it right here.
Yeah, Proof that terrible, honestHunter, Proof respectable. I like it.

(10:45):
I think I like the other onemore, but I do like this
one. The Taylor. Oh no, each sailor is always better. But
like I meant, the film Land, Yes, of the film Land.
Okay, I think I done alittle bit more. You can you can
taste Okay there it is almost likea cocoa chocolate something, which kind of
makes sense because they're using that thatthe stout barrels from Goose Island, and

(11:11):
you know Goose loves cocoa. GeeseGeese love cocoa. Okay, yeah,
definitely. So it tastes like thePixar movie. So weird. All right,
Well, listeners, if you're intoWhiskey Bardstown collaborative series with Goose Island,

(11:31):
it's if you at all, drinkyour stars away, please try.
It's smooth on the way down.It's got that little little but it's not
like lighting up my belly or anything. No, no, it's not doing
that. It's not doing like thoselittle bottles you had at one party.
You just have acid flatten bananas,almost threw up. You had a little

(11:52):
bit of the grape one. Itburned all the way down. I don't
know why they make that ship tomurder us all exactly, All right,
why don't we finish our whiskeys?Take a break? Yes, come back
and talk about some really crazy theoriesabout the Long Island serial killer. Yes,
let's do it. Listeners, welcomeback to the show. Well,

(12:50):
the lights are turned down low,the ceremonial candle is lit, and the
drinks are flowing. Let's start thisshow. Okay, So this is a
part two, right, oscar.There's a lot they would have missed if

(13:11):
they didn't hear in the first episode. A lot. So if you haven't
listened to episode one yet where wetalk about the actual murders and the background
here, make sure and go backand listen because you will be lost.
So it's part two. Warning.Yeah wait, so big Neian sign.
So in the last episode we introducedyou to eighteen young women sex workers plus

(13:39):
two outliers. Remember we talked aboutthe Asian male and that female toddler,
Peach's daughter found murdered across the USfrom the East Coast to the West Coast,
so twenty in total, bodies werefound on the south shore of Long
Island, specifically at Gilgo Beach andoff Ocean Parkway. They were found in

(14:03):
Manerville, Long Island, Las Vegas, Nevada, and in Atlantic City,
New Jersey, and many people believethat all these women are the victims of
a single undetected killer known as theLong Island serial Killer. We also introduced
you to a group of women nicknamedthe Gilgo Four. Four sex workers accidentally

(14:26):
discovered murdered at Gilgo Beach on LongIsland while authorities were out searching for another
missing sex worker, a young womannamed Shannon Gilbert. Six additional bodies were
discovered at or around Gilgo Beach andoff Ocean Parkway, and ten more bodies
were found between Manerville, New York, which is also on Long Island,

(14:50):
Las Vegas, and Atlantic City,and all these women shared eerie similarities.
The Long Island ceial killer preferred petitefemale sex workers somewhere between one hundred pounds
give or take, between twenty twoto twenty seven years old, with hazel
or green eyes. Most of thevictims used the Internet to advertise their services,

(15:11):
specifically Craigslist, which is how thiscycle found his victims. He shopped
online when a cause of death couldbe determined. Most of the women were
killed by strangulation, while some werehorribly dismembered and their body parts scattered.
Most were found near a body ofwater, lying face down, wrapped in

(15:31):
burlap or cloth with their heads facingeast, and some were bound by either
belts or tape or both. Nowagain, listeners, in case you missed
it, please go back to thelast episode so you could learn the specifics
about each victim, their names,their backstories, and who was found where
and in what condition. Also,in the last episode, we played a

(15:54):
really disturbing nine one one call madeby Shannon Gilbert the morning she went missing,
the thing that kicked off this wholenightmare. Without poor Shannon in that
crazy nine to one one call,police might have never known they had a
vicious serial killer in their midst,and the victim's bodies might have never been
found. Now, in this episode, we're going to introduce you to a

(16:18):
long list of suspects that might bethe Long Island serial killer. Or might
have been working alongside the actual LongIsland serial killer, either by coincidence or
by design. And at the endof this episode, we're going to tell
you all about the man that's incustody right now, accused of being the
actual Long Island serial killer. Accused, not convicted. That's important now,

(16:44):
mind you. A lot of whatwe're going to talk tonight talk about tonight
is only theory and speculation, butit's also incredibly interesting. And the fact
that all this is still unfolding,that we have no idea of police really
have the guy responsible for murdering allthese women in custody makes these theories even
more interesting to play with and talkabout. So let's get into these theories

(17:06):
and see if any of them makesense. Yes, I really can't wait
about it, because, like Ihad a lot of you know, notes
the first episode on part one,which I assume everyone listening right now has
listened to that already. Especially,I have a lot on Gilbert. I
have a lot on that phone callrelating to some of these suspects we're going

(17:27):
to talk about, I think twoor three of them. It touches really
on, and that was hopefully springboardother talks as well, but they're all
centered on the victims of course,and the times and the locations of when
they were missing and so on.So like, yeah, I can't wait
to get into it. Awesome.Well, to start pulling, oh and

(17:48):
you know, before we begin,we're really getting in here, go to
the show notes and check out photosagain. Oh yes, I have a
ton of photos there of all thesesuspects, and I think one new victim
to one possible victim is there inthe show notes. But yeah, go
ahead and follow along. As Oscaryou said last time, this is an
interactive show, right, So goand check out those photos. It's like

(18:11):
a pop up book. But we'repodcasting and murder and murder, okay.
So to start pulling at threads,we got to look at that Oak Beach
Association where Joe Brewer lived, whereShannon Gilbert went missing in the early morning
hours of May first, twenty ten. I mentioned in the last episode that
Oak Beach Association was a secluded privatecommunity, right, Well, apparently this

(18:34):
is kind of an understatement. It'smore like its own little country back there,
with lots of privacy and apparently lotsof secrets, filled with people who
don't really like outsiders. Oak BeachAssociation even had its own weird little doctor
security guy someone will talk about ina little bit. Definitely someone strange.

(18:56):
Now. We also mentioned last episodethat Joe Brewer, the man that high
Shannon, was cleared of any wrongdoing. He's not a suspect officially. Brewer
was just some dumpy, unemployed financeguy looking for a good time. In
fact, when he was questioned bypolice, Burr said he didn't even plan
on having sex with Shannon that night. He just wanted some female company,

(19:18):
which I called bullshit immediately on becauseyou know, as we are well aware,
I hopefully well aware, and thisyou're outside of the country and you're
not aware. You should know thatprostitution is illegal in this in this in
this country except for two counties,of course, being in Nevada. That
said, though, that's you know, when you're asked a question by the

(19:40):
police whether or not you hired someoneor you paid money for sex, your
answer should be known. So mythinking is that he's just like covering his
ass. That's what it seems liketo me when you're saying you're looking for
a companionship. But that's what hesaid. Yes, you just want a
companionship. That's what everyone says.That's what all the websites say, Like,
that's what you say when you getasked that question, but especially by
authorities. You don't say, oh, yeah, I'm looking to the old

(20:02):
and out and out, you know. You don't say that it's so rough,
so wrong, so wrong. Igot that from a Coco corne by
the way, Oh that's right,they say that that movie. Uh sorry,
I folks said that sounds really terribleto say, but they said it,
and it's obviously, uh, thisguy is covering his ass. Now
whether or not I buy it?Do you buy light detecting tests as all?

(20:26):
Okay? But it does kind ofget police to move off of somebody,
okay, or to push harder onsomebody if they fail. But it's
not admissible in court so as timeas so they just use it as uh
as like a way to start something. Yeah, it's if if someone fails
a light detector test, the copsknow to dig in there's something going on.

(20:48):
If they pass, I guess wegot the wrong guy. Move on,
and according to what's out there inthe news. Now, that's what
happened with Joe Brewer and Michael Packedif they both passed light detector tests and
you buy this, you're fine withas a person. Are you asking if
I think Joe Brewer had more todo with it than he claims. That
was my next question, But no, I mean, in general, you

(21:10):
think this is an okay way ofdoing it. I hope there's more to
ruling out Joe Brewer than just andMichael Pack than just the light detector test.
I hope they have solid alibis.I hope there's some sort of evidence
that ruled them out, because otherwisethey should be looking because that's where she
disappeared from, and like you said, he definitely will right in the middle
of that storm. Yeah, Imean they're at the eye of the storm

(21:33):
exactly. And like you said,he's just given an excuse. Of course,
he hired her to fuck I meanthat's what that's what he did.
So I hope there's more to itthan just a light detector test. They
asked the next question and a lightof detective test, and he's had the
same thing and it worked. LikeI'm curious, like, well, yeah,
you know, I'm saying, ifthey ask him fight out, did
you kill Shannon, no checks outright, but you have something right,

(21:56):
well, what did he have somethingto do with it? Though? You
know? And then you ask,well, yeah, I get we don't
know the questions either. We'll neverknow that. I was just gonna say,
I wish we knew the question.We'll never know because again, this
is not even a missible court.That's highly doubt that they even have records
of that kind of thing. Youknow, they probably make up the questions
down that day, you know,it's not like yeah, thought, and
I'm sure there's a record of itsomewhere. We'll never get to see it

(22:18):
because he's not in court, right, there's no reason to release that stuff,
right. I think that most thatmight go to court, he'll go
to court is only as a witness. That's just the most the most to
see him involved right in the future, and it makes me want to It
makes you curious about it because Lightattacked her like that's it. Like I'm
not saying they're super easy to beat, not saying that. I've never been
on one, so I don't reallyknow. But I'm really bad at testing.

(22:40):
Though I'm a bad tester, I'mjust a bad liar, you know.
I think he would be a badliar too, I would. Yeah,
that's a character trait to be abad liar. That's a good that's
kind of good thing. Yeah,but no, I think he definitely he
didn't hire her for just companionship tohold hands and watch Netflix. He wanted
to do some de Butcher's shit,and you know it was an agreed upon

(23:02):
transaction. Hey whatever, Yeah,right, but something from his fucking house.
So I hope there's more than alot of detector tized Yeah, And
I hope that answers your question howI feel about it. So basically,
at the end of the day,you know, he's kind of a nobody
so far in this story. Yeah, maybe something will come out later on
down the line, but right nowhe's he's kind of a nobody. But
the word around the Oak Beach Associationcampfire is that his house, Joe Brewer's

(23:26):
house, because it's kind of secludedand out of the way, was a
party house. It's out of theway more than the other houses. It's
already out of the way, right, Yeah, Yeah, it's already secluded.
This place is a secluded there's evenmore secluded from the out o way.
He's kind of off somewhere in thesubdivision where he's more secluded than the
rest, like he's put on timeout. Yeah, kind of okay,

(23:48):
But because of this fact that he'skind of off on his own in this
subdivision, that's where parties went on. Male parties. They would gather there
private and they could basically do whateverthey want. Drugs, higher escorts,
lots lots of debaucher of shit,right, just men behaving badly. Yeah,
And apparently it was this open secretaround Oak Beach. No one really

(24:11):
said anything. And I've even seenin interviews with some of Joe's neighbors that
they claim one of these male partieswas going down that night Shannon disappeared.
So while there was a party goingon, this guy got a sex worker
to come to his house. Myimmediate question to that is was it for

(24:33):
the party? That's the implication,like in a group kind of thing,
and I mean a group org youguys on one girl, which is called
a gang bang, actually, butthat's I mean more like entertaining like a
stripper type thing. Or is itjust for him? It could be all
three. I mean, I assumeit's a big house because of the richness
of it. So maybe he couldjust see, you know, its secretly
take her off somewhere while the party'sgoing on, right, have fun,

(24:53):
and then come back. It couldbe that sick. It's multiple floors,
it doesn't look opulent. But wekind of touched on this in last episode.
I would live there because the goddamnthing looks at the ocean, so
it's got to be a million dollarsand the ocean. I do love the
ocean. But so yeah, hecould probably sneakerr off somewhere in the home,
or someone could sneaker off in thehome, or multiple someone could sneaker

(25:15):
off in the home if they wantedto. But you know, there's no
evidence directly proving that one of theseparties was going on, except for people
in the association talking to the mediasaying, yeah, Joe was having one
of his parties that night, Likethere's there's tex threats going on that talk
about it, sure, but noone mentions that, Yeah, yeah,
the hidden secret you know or theknown said, what's the what I'm looking

(25:37):
for? Open secret? Open again? Yeah, So apparently it was also
an open secret that powerful men joinedthese parties. We're talking political figures,
business leaders, rich guys and highranking members of the Suffolk County Police.
So if that's true, did Shannonsee something or someone at that house that

(26:00):
she wasn't supposed to were high profilemen behaving badly and instead of risking Shannon
telling someone what she saw, wasit just take her easier to take her
out to kill her? I mean, something went down at Bruce House that
caused Shannon to freak out, andas you heard in the last episode,
she was very clear to nine oneone that she was afraid for her life

(26:22):
that someone was trying to kill her. But on the other hand, it's
also claimed that Shannon was mentally illI believe schizophrenic, and she was known
to use drugs. So was Shannonultimately a victim of her own demons?
Kind of like what the official policeword says, how you know, she
was high on drugs, she raninto this Marshy area, fell ran out

(26:44):
of gas, and drowned. Sowas she a victim of her demons?
Or was something really shady going onwith someone really trying to kill her?
And unfortunately we'll probably never know,but we do know what happened with Shannon's
sister Sarah and her mental illness.Remember very end of last episode, Shannon's
sister murdered her fucking mother. Yep, sabbed her over like what two hundred
and forty seven times. So mentalillness does run in the family. So

(27:10):
we don't know demons or really murder. But to stick with this idea that
Shannon ran a foul of someone atJoe Brewer's house, let's take a look
at our first theory. Now,this first theory is that the Long Island
serial killer is actually a cop,and not just any cop, but the
former chief of the Suffolk County Policehimself, a man named James Burke,

(27:34):
who is chief from twenty twelve totwenty and fifteen. Now, remember the
Gilgo four were found in December oftwenty ten, and Shannon Gilbert was found
in December twenty eleven. So Burkecomes in as chief of police right as
the Long Island serial case killer caseis really ramping up. You know,
bodies have been found right in theHeadlines are going absolutely, the media is

(27:57):
going crazy. Families want answer,and it's clear that a serial killer or
multiple serial killers are active in thearea. And what a perfect time for
a brand new police chief to jumpin and give it as all to solve
in the case and really make aname for himself, right, But that's
not what happened. In fact,it seems James Burke went out of his

(28:18):
way to derail the investigation, andcritics have long claimed that Burke set the
Long Island serial killer murder investigation backby years by refusing help from the FBI.
Well. For example, in Decemberof twenty twelve, Suffolk County Police
lead investigators wanted to meet with theFBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit to try and get

(28:41):
some help solving this case. Butthe District Attorney of Suffolk County, a
guy named Tom Spoda, and JamesBurke, the chief, deemed the meeting
unnecessary and basically stonewalled the FBI's involvement. It was also reported that Burke refused
the FBI's offer to create a criminalprofile for the case. This is the

(29:03):
chief of police and the DA flatout refusing the FBI is offered to help
solve a high profile serial murder case. Do you know them what? Because
you see this on movies, whichI know it's not a source for facts.
Not a great place to go ifyou want to know how the world
works. Necessarily, But what doesit take for the FBI to interfere or

(29:26):
like, do they have to beasked in this case? Because you know
what I'm saying, like, what'sthe criteria for them to get their asses
involved? I think the help hasto be requested, Okay, if it's
not, it's not they do withstate line crossing maybe because another state they're
like the country's police when things crossstate lines and things like that, or

(29:47):
there's a dispute over who's actually thelaw there, they're the laws, right,
That's like how I feel it works. So that local police agency has
to, I guess, either askfor or accept the help in order for
to I don't think the FBI couldjust jump in and say move over,
we're coming in. I think becauseyou see that's seen a lot of movies.
Yeah, and I just I don'tbelieve it works that way. It

(30:10):
certainly didn't in this high profile case. You would think, right, That's
what I'm saying. Different you know, a criminal behavioral analysis, a profile,
and the woor free. Yeah right, they don't have to pay for
this, right right, So youthink if they could come in and take
it over, they would have.But the district attorney and the chief said,
we don't need you, this isn'tnecessary. We got this right basically,

(30:36):
And so a lot of people askwhy why did they why did they
refuse to help? Was there enoughI'll cry on this like at that time
or is this something that just peoplecomplained about after like way too late?
Maybe? So I think that's partof the problem is that in the beginning
nothing was being done. Do youremember Shannon Gilbert's mother, Mary was always
out there. They waited five monthsbefore even into viewing gus Coletti. Right

(31:02):
then the lady realized that Shannon nineto one one girl was the same girl
that was reporting miss reported missing?Right obvious or easy to find? Right?
Yeah, it's and that's part ofthe conspiracy is that the police,
it seems, sat on their handsfor a very long time on this case.
Then they went ahead and fled out, refused help from the FBI.
So people are like, wait aminute. Victim's family is like, wait

(31:22):
a minute, what's going on.I remember you were mentioning also that you
know, as find it hard tobelieve they wouldn't trace that call during the
twenty one minute you know nine onecall, or that they wouldn't have dispatched
police officers and they would have gonetheir way before it was too way before
the call ended, even, right, And that to that, I kind
of say, like, well,there was this one time that I,

(31:45):
by Musa, was next to someonethat called the police, Rob actually,
and I was there and he calledthe police during this thing we were doing
late one night and we were twoor three blocks away from the police station.
They never came. It was therefor a while too, more than
twenty Oh oh my god, theynever came. Now that's just that's just

(32:06):
Chicago. It sounds that could beus, but that happened, And I'm
just saying I'm not surprised hearing that, you know, yeah, yeah,
yeah it And part of the reasoncould be that the police took so long
to get there is because the dispatcherwas trying to figure out what county she
was calling from. Remember there,I remember that, two different counties.

(32:28):
That could be the reason, Butman, I don't know, twenty three
minutes is a long time. Plusthey were getting multiple calls from neighbors.
You think someone had said, allright, just someone get out there and
check this out. Yeah. Ialso have a question about her mental illness.
I guess, yeah, her mentalcheck stuff because there's a history of
it, for sure. I'm notsaying that. You know, just because

(32:49):
one member of your family has schizophreniadoesn't mean that everyone has it either.
But she could have a version ofthat or something. I can buy that
completely. I'm not saying that.I remember in the first episode one of
fifties you guys that we talked abouthow there was no drugs found in her
system. If she is someone thathas mental health issues, then most likely
she's getting it treated daily, somethingthat she takes in daily. So was

(33:12):
that did they test for something likethat, did they find that, or
is there like a lack of takingthem that led to this. Maybe it
led to something that could explain herbehavior or vice versa. Maybe like she
took them or this is a completelynormal reaction. You know, it's hard
to tell. But the fact thatthere was no drugs in the system,
if she has mental some mental issuesthat requires drugs, like schizophrenia, she

(33:36):
should be that she should be shownon the autopsy. Yeah, I read
I read doctor Michael Badden's autopsy reportright, and it did not talk about
any sort of a regular medicinal thatshe was taking rug use. Yeah,
nothing did mention anything like that?Right, And we don't and we don't
know, right, we don't knowsomething we don't know offer meds to well,

(33:58):
we don't know if I mean,we don't know if she even had
to take that true, Like weknow how bad it is. It was
sorry, if it existed, right, or if it existed at all?
Right. I feel like in thesekind of cases always seems to just like
treat the victim as if they're saying, why I start there and then work
your way but down? You know, right, isn't that the very essence
of planning for the worst but hopingfor the best? Yeah, it is,

(34:21):
right, Like that's what bugs me. The whole thing is fishy.
Yeah, and it sucks that we'llnever know, No, we'll never know.
It sucks. So we were talkingabout James Burke, Yes, no,
no, and people ask, well, why did he stonewall the FBI's
involvement. It's because Burke isn't agood guy. This is not a good

(34:43):
chief of police. It's crooked asfuck. Actually, and as it turns
out, so was the district AttorneyTom Spoda. But we're gonna get to
that. But Now, as faras Burke goes, this is a guy
that used to tell people that hewanted to become a cop so he could
break the law. These guys,he said, to break the law,
and that's why he wanted to becomea cop, so we could break the

(35:05):
law. This is the kind ofperson we're dealing with. So basically,
Burke wanted to prevent the FBI fromworking with the Suffolk County PD so his
own terrible behavior wouldn't be exposed.Because Burke, he really likes prostitutes like
a lot. People describe him asthis sex obsessed narcissist, a short man

(35:25):
with a Napoleon complex who was knownto have sex with prostitutes in his own
service vehicle, in his own copcar, where these women of less than
you know, ideal character had accessto his gun and his badge. Exactly,
you don't do this, yes,now, this his behavior actually made

(35:47):
it to the press and lurid talesof his violence. Yeah, his violence
towards sex workers were all over themedia. There were allegations he threw women
to the ground and had been violentwith them during oral sex. And these
allegations go all the way back tothe nineteen nineties when there was an internal
investigation into burke sexual relationships with prostitutes. He's been accused of shaking down crack

(36:15):
dealers, then using the crack himselfalbanging prostitutes. He drove drunk and wrecked
service vehicles and used his status toget away with it. He think the
woof Wah Street by worse. Yeah, just a puke of a guy,
but he had powerful connections, namelythat DA, the District Attorney Tom Spoda,
and Spoda helped Burke rise through theranks of the Suffolk County PD until

(36:38):
he made chief of one of thelargest police agencies in the United States,
despite his history of you know,let's just call it less than honorable behavior.
Now you may be asking how dida guy like this get to be
chief? And that's a great question, one that many people have asked over
the years, and it all goesback to a relationship Tom Spoda that the

(37:02):
DA struck up with James Burke inthe late nineteen seventies, back when Spoda
was just a young prosecutor and JamesBurke was just a punk, a fourteen
year old kid. You see,back in nineteen seventy nine, SPODA was
prosecuting an incredibly high profile case ofa murdered thirteen year old boy from Smithtown

(37:24):
on Long Island, where James Burkelived. At the time, SPODA was
known to strike deals with these lowlevel criminals in exchange for their testimony,
and whether or not the testimony wasfactual seemed to sometimes take a back seat
to securing a conviction. Now,SPODA secured testimony from a fourteen year old

(37:45):
kid, a small time weed dealerwho bragged about committing one hundred burglaries in
his neighborhood, just a punk headingdown the wrong path. And this kid,
of course, was James Burke.Now, Burke's testimony helps SPODA secure
convictions in this murder case, andtoday there are huge doubts about the accuracy

(38:07):
of Burke's testimony, but SPODA gothis convictions and ever since, Burke and
Spoda were inseparable. In a lotof ways, Spota was like Burke's mentor,
and he definitely helped Burke rise throughthe ranks of the Suffolk County PD
and kind of insulate them from allhis craziness. Now, ultimately, Burke's

(38:28):
career ended in disgrace after he wasconvicted of beating the shit out of a
junkie and a thief named Christopher Loband then covering the whole thing up.
You see. On December fourteenth,twenty twelve, police arrested twenty six year
old Christopher Lob outside his mother's housein Smithdown, New York for stealing a
Duffel bag from the backseat of ablack GMC Yukon the duffel bag lobes stole

(38:54):
contain items belonging to a cop,ammunition, handcuffs, mason a gun,
but the duffel bag also contained stuffyou wouldn't expect to find in a cops
bag. Sitting in the bag,next to the standard issue police gear were
sex toys, butt plugs, lube, and what the media described as quote

(39:15):
possibly illegal pornography like videos like tapes. Yes, ah, here's the kicker.
Guess who the bag belonged to,fuck James Burke Now. Loeb himself
said he knew the bag belonged toa cop because word on the street was
that this particular cop was known toshake down drug dealers and keep the drug

(39:37):
for his own news. So Lobwent to this CoP's house and entered the
SUV looking for drugs. Instead,he got the crooked ass chief of Suffolk
County Police's bag of smut. Wordhit the street that Burke's bag was stolen,
and lob was very quickly apprehended athis mom's house in Smithtown. Now,
when Burke learned of Loeb's arrest,he was so concerned about hiding the

(40:00):
contents of his bag that he racedover Loeb's mother's house and tampered with the
crime scene, taking the Duffel bagin direct violation of police procedure and protocol.
So think about this for a second. In this scenario, Burk's the
victim. So you have the victimof a crime entering the crime scene and
taking evidence. You can't do that. Nope, there's a chain of evidence,

(40:23):
right, it's not it. Now. During Loebe's arrest, the cops
slammed him to the ground and roughedthem up really good. But when his
mother came out to protest, Loebwas quickly whisked away to the Suffolk County
Police station, where things got alot worse. Once at the station,
Loeb wasn't read as rights and hewas flat out denied access to a lawyer.

(40:45):
Instead, he was handcuffed and chainedto an eyebolt in the floor,
hunched over and defenseless. He saidhe was held in this position for ten
hours. That's got to be torturenow. Eventually Burke entered the room and
proceeded to beat the living shit outof Lobe while threatening to kill him with
the hot dose of heroin. Othercops in the room, and yes,

(41:07):
there were witnesses to this, theythreatened to rape his mother. These are
good guys. Now. Apparently Burkebeat Lobes so badly that a detective had
to intervene and physically pull Burke offof the guy. Burke then threatened officers
under him, who he referred toas his palace guards fucking asshole, to

(41:29):
keep their mouth shut or else.Reportedly, he scared one cop so badly
that later on on the witness stand, this cop lied about the incident under
oath just to avoid Burke's wrath.That's how afraid of Burkey was. So
I'm curious, like, did hepulled the detective that pulled them off him?

(41:50):
Is this like from the heat ofbeating him up? Is that what
they were supposed to take from it? Or was he asking the guy questions
and he wasn't giving him the rightanswers. I think he's a little bit
of both, Okay, yeah,more leaning towards just beating the shit out
of them, right. And three, he seems to really enjoy putting a
person down. And look at hispicture in the show notes. Wait do
you see this guy? I meanyou could just see it. He's just

(42:12):
got that face and the mustache.You know what I mean? That pushbroom
mustache happens when you like ignore shouldn'tbehaviors early on in child you know,
when you think of the young peopleand stuff, when they start something like
that, when you ignore the kindof thing, this is how it's nowballs
and to worser worser. Well,then you got people protecting him. So
he's got like carp blonche just yourtactics, galore, Let that id out
man, and the ID takes over, yikes man. Christopher Lowe would go

(42:37):
on to sue the Suffolk County PD. James Burke resigned from his position in
October twenty fifteen, and in Februarytwenty sixteen, after a lengthy FBI probe,
Burke pled guilty to federal charges ofviolating Christopher Lobe's rights and knowingly conspiring
to conceal evidence of it. Hewas sentenced to forty six month in federal

(42:59):
prison and along with three years ofsupervised release. Now Tom Spoda, the
DA and the guy that helped Burkestonewall the FBI's assistance with the Long Island
serial killer case, was convicted intwenty nineteen to five years in prison for
witness tampering, obstructive justice, andconspiracy and effort to help Burke hide his

(43:20):
crimes against Christopher Lobe. Just corruption, through and through. And that's years
after, from top to bottom.Yeah, that's the years after. But
the damage has been done on thecase anyway. Oh right, it's already
set back. Like you sit back, I get too fucking late. It's
set back. Rumors are running rampidthat the cops don't care, that it's
a cover up. I mean,he did a lot of damage. But

(43:40):
it also goes hand in hand withwhat you said in the first episode,
too is a part one where likeyou know, they don't care about sex
workers. That's what these victims are. Theyn't give a shit, that's what
it certainly that backs that up more. Yeah, yeah, Now, it's
really crazy, is that. Lateron in interviews, Christopher Lowe claimed that

(44:00):
in Burke's duffel bag he found someDVDs and on the cover of one of
those DVDs was what appeared to bea pre pubescent boy, and another DVD,
which Loeb claimed to have watched andeven recorded bits on his cell phone,
supposedly showed a girl on a bedin a darkened room being tortured by

(44:22):
a man in a mask. Asnuff film. In other words, oh
okay. Now. It's important tonote that Christopher Loeb's DVD claims have never
been verified publicly, nor has hiscell phone footage ever been seen. But
what he claims he saw does recallwhat was printed in the media about the
Chief's duffel bag containing possibly illegal pornographyquote unquote right, and people speculate that

(44:47):
the man in the snuff film,the one torturing the woman, is none
other than Chief James Burke. Soafter all this, we finally get to
our theory that James Burke is theLong Island serial kill. He's corrupt as
fuck, he has a documented historyof being violent towards sex workers, and
he very obviously blocked the FBI fromassisting in the Long Island serial killer case.

(45:12):
Also, if you remember from thelast episode, we said that the
killer made multiple taunting calls to MelissaBarthelmy's sister. I think believe he called
her up to eight times, andhe also made a call to one of
Marine Brainerd Barnes's friends. Each calllasted just long enough to not be traced
to an exact location and cell towerpings, and a lot of these calls

(45:36):
came from Manhattan, an incredibly busyplace loaded with people on cell phones,
making any attempt at pinpointing a specificphone or locating any video evidence impossible.
Check any streetcam or security cam inManhattan and you'll see a thousand people talking
on cell phones. How do youidentify a suspect? It's almost as if

(46:00):
the killer understands police tactics and moreimportantly, how to avoid them. And
who understands police tactics better than acop in this case, a violent,
crooked chief of police with a ravenoustaste for hookers. I hear something else.
The victims found up and down OceanParkway were actually found in two different

(46:21):
counties, Suffolk County and Nassau County. And what do we know about these
geographical lines When it comes to crime, information sharing and responsibilities suddenly become a
little clouded and convoluted, hindering investigations. A cop would know that disposing bodies
across multiple counties would make things moredifficult, not impossible, but definitely harder.

(46:43):
And like we said, if youlistened to Shannon Gilbert's call that we
plaid last episode, the nine oneone operator was trying to figure out whether
Shannon was in Suffolk or Nassau Countyso the correct cops could be dispatched.
All of this is how James Burkebecame an unofficial suspect in the Law Island
murders. But again keep in mind, officially Burke has never been charged or

(47:04):
even named a suspect or even lookedat. From what I can tell,
there's only three people being looked at. The one accused currently and the two
people like the one that drove fromShannon Gilbert and and the other guy Joe
Brewer Gilbert thank you. Yeah,I'm bad with names. But when you
take all his circumstantial evidence, that'swhat it is, it's circumstantial evidence.

(47:24):
You can see how some people couldthink he was the killer, right m
H. It's also rumored that Burkeand his lackeys were part of the boys
club that partied at Joe Brewer's house, and therefore Burke could be involved in
Shannon Gilbert's death or he was atJoe Brewer's house tonight Shannon Gilbert went missing
and is helping to cover up forsomeone. But who now An attorney for

(47:47):
Shannon Gilbert's family, guy named JohnRay. We talked about him in the
last episode. He came forward withthe sworn statement from a sex worker who
said that she witnessed Burke used drugsand party with sex workers on two occasions
in the Oak Beach Association where Shannon'sremains were found. At least one of
itch took place in twenty eleven,meaning Burke was doing this while the Long

(48:12):
Island serial killer investigation was in fullswing. So what do you think was
that at the same house? Sono, never said, never said,
just in Oak Beach Association, neverpinpointed to Brewer's house. Do you think
we have a killer cop on ourhands? Well, the I mean,
as far as this theory goes,the suspect looks very pretty fucking suspicious.
Looks very tasty. Yeah, itlooks like he's he's the guy. I'm

(48:36):
not saying he's the guy, butlike he's only our first suspect, guys,
but he looks like a really goodcandidate. The anger management or mismanagement
really and his lifestyle in general,his I mean the cop tactics you mentioned,
the fact that he would know aboutthe Selping towers. Makes sense to
go to a crowded area, especiallyback then people were more on their phones

(48:58):
guys nowadays than no one on theirphone as much. But multiple counties,
counties and flouting things up a littlebit, right if if you if you
buy that's one killer still in thiscase, I like that a lot.
Obviously I know some more than thanyou guys do at this current time.
But it makes uh Is there anyway that there's no confirmation whatsoever that a

(49:22):
he was there that night or bthat he did even go to these parties?
Right, so we we have that. All we have is that one
according to the lawyer, that thereis a sworn affidavit that's punishable by jail
time if proven to be false,that he was on two occasions seen in
that association partying with hookers and doingdrugs. Can I make an affidavit that

(49:45):
peanut butter and jelly is great?Is you sure? Is that a thing
that kind of happened? I wouldsign that effidy false? Right, yes,
I'm saying, Okay, So well, well that is damning and that's
pretty cool. I mean obviously noone, even an affid David form.
I doubt that people will still takethe word of a sex worker that seriously.
Probably, but maybe not. Idon't know. I like that,

(50:08):
I think, I mean, Imean, he sounds pretty legit. Yeah,
not to mention. I mean,you didn't even talk about his documented
violence towards prostitutes that he was underinvestigation for. Well, that's the thing,
is that that kind of thing,you know, even if he like
he's still remained to be a cop, which obviously he did back in the
nineties or was it eighties nineties?Right, Well, I mean he resigned

(50:29):
in the no no, no,that first thing in that first incident.
Oh that was like yeah, likethe early nineties, right, So like
I feel like that kind of thingshould immediately make you inable unable to run
for chief one, you know whatI'm saying that that alone, but that
gives you an idea of how thisBlue Boys Club gets along in Suffo.

(50:55):
I do also like it made avery cavalier too, because he talked about
him. He's very cavalier about it. He could tell he does it all
the time. He probably flaunts ita little bit. He doesn't give a
shit you talk about the little lords. He talks about his palace guards out
of cards, how refers to themin probably public. Nope, without a
care about it. He's like he'slike a Kevin, like a male Karen.

(51:17):
Right. He just looks like ahuge top up all that right,
Yeah, one of those right.Like I feel like also because of that,
I feel like he would be moredumb, you know, like a
dumb person. But like also Ican see him making those calls to those

(51:39):
people's families, Barnes's and Parthellamies.Yeah, the taunting. I can see
him doing that, like a bullything. Maybe you know that feels right
with this guy. I haven't seena picture of him. Of course,
you guys can do that in yourshow notes. I don't have the show
notes because we're making the show.But I don't know. I mean,

(52:00):
it's guys, such an asshole,I kind of like import right now.
So right now, you could buyinto a killer cop theory. Yeah,
yeah, especially if he was thereat the party, which I can easily
envision. You know, I wonderwhat they have the week that was.
We know, we don't we havethat we could easily. I don't even
think that matters. People can partywhenever, day of the week, but
especially if you're According to the newsreports, Joe Brewer was an unemployed finance

(52:23):
person. So you don't have ajob, you can party seven days a
week. Yeah, you know that'strue. Well, if not a killer
cop, what about a killer doctor? H our Next theory? No,
okay, next theory. We're goingto talk about a really strange guy that

(52:45):
might be a suspect at least inShannon Gilbert's death and maybe more. I'd
like to introduce you to the formerhead of the Suffolk County Emergency Medical Services,
doctor Peter Hackett. So this isn'ta shlub. This guy was the
head of Suffolk County Emergency Medical Services. Now, as they said, doctor

(53:07):
Hackett, he's a strange one.He lived in Oak Beach Association for a
long time. He raised a familythere, and he was kind of this
big shot around the association. Heacted as the association's emergency services guy because
he's a doctor, and he actedas their security guy. So anytime something
went down at this association, doctorHackett was involved. Now, not only

(53:31):
does Hackett's backyard but up against thearea where Shannon Gilbert's skeletal remains were found,
Like you could literally see where herremains were found from this guy's back
porch. Not only that, buttwo days after Shannon went missing, So
on May third, twenty ten,doctor Hackett called Mary Gilbert, Shannon's mother,

(53:54):
and he told her that he Hackettruns a halfway house for girls that
want to get off the street,and that Shannon was at his house the
night she went missing. Doctor Hackettallegedly told Shannon's mom that on the night
Shannon went missing, she was indistress, so he treated her and he

(54:15):
medicated her, and he said sheleft with her driver, Michael Pack,
and that he Hackett was calling becausehe was worried about Shannon. Now,
obviously Mary Gilbert, Shannon's mom,she was just floored by Hackett's call,
so she sends her daughters, Shannon'ssisters, out to Long Island to Oak

(54:35):
Beach, association to doctor Hackett's house, but when the sisters confront him,
Hackett flat out denied ever calling theirmother. He denied ever interacting with Shannon
the night she disappeared, denied medicatingher, and he denied running a halfway
house for wayward girls. However,phone records provided by Mary Gilbert proved Hackett

(55:00):
did call her on the date shesaid he did, on May third,
two days after Shannon went missing.So we know Hackett made the call,
we got the proof. We knowhe's a liar. We just don't know
exactly what he said. There's norecord of the conversation, so all we
could go by is what Mary Gilbertclaims he said. So, in Mary

(55:22):
Gilbert's eyes, if Hackett is lyingabout making the call, what else is
he lying about. In fact,Mary was so convinced that doctor Hackett had
something to do with her daughter's death, Shannon's death, she filed the wrongful
death suit against him, claiming thatHackett's treatment and medication ultimately led to Shannon's

(55:43):
death. And if you remember whenwe talked about the second autopsy on Shannon's
remains, the one conducted by doctorMichael Badden, he said a small hole
was found in Shannon's hyoid bone.Remember that, yes, could this small
hole have come from, say asyringe like Hackett ejected something into Shannon.

(56:05):
Now it's important to note that thepolice do not consider Hackett a suspect,
but Hackett was known to treat hisneighbors and provide them with prescriptions, some
prescriptions in the form of injectables,and at times Shannon certainly sounded drugged in
the nine one one call we playedlast episode, and doctor Hackett would have
the means and access to drug Shannon. I'm telling you, this guy is

(56:28):
weird. I watched this one videoor an interviewer from Crime Watch Daily tried
to corner doctor Hackett and ask himabout the allegations that he had something to
do with Shannon's death, and Iswear to God, Oscar Hackett on camera
fakes a heart attack in an attemptto throw off this interviewer. He screams,
he grabs his chest, falls tothe ground, and when the interviewer

(56:51):
says he's gonna call nine one one, Hackett refuses, saying that if anyone
calls nine one one, he'll justrefuse service because he's a doctor and he
knows what's going on is he appearsHarthorne from community to baking heart attacks.
Huw okay. So I'll leave alink to this video so you guys can
see it. I'll even put atimestamp where to start watching this video.

(57:12):
But I mean, after a fewseconds, he gets up like nothing happened.
He gets into his car and hejust drives away. It's the craziest
thing. It's very uncomfortable to watch. And again I'll leave a link to
this video with the timestamp where youstart watching to see this unfold and you
tell us was Hacket? Was Hackettfaking it to get out of this interview

(57:34):
or was it a real heart attack? But it is strange, that is
its very strange. Also, wasthinking about that pinprick, Yes, the
hire bone. I forgot the verysimple fact that Battons was the second person
to autops here. Yeah that wasthe set. Yeah, because remember the
first autops he done by the selfkind of medical examiner said that she wasn't

(57:57):
murdered, there was no violence,death by misadventure, but no drugs in
her system, but cause of deathundetermined. The vishal cause death was undetermined.
So her family is like, weneed another opinion, right, so
they hired this doctor. Mind,I wonder if somehow doing that first autops
here, somewhere within the window oftime of her body being found and doctor

(58:19):
Baton getting the body to examine again, could she have been injected there or
could that body been disturbed in someway oh, during the first autopsy,
Yeah, to make it look likesomething was done. I mean theoretically,
I guess it's possible. I mean, I don't know what that will do
or lead, especially since the sheriff'sCounty White is in charge of this case

(58:43):
at the time, the asshole Burke, right, yeah, and his police
as men are and his medical examinerhis case has his case, right,
Yeah, how I mean, itseems like could have been injected post homies
or something. Thinking out, Idon't know. I'm just saying it seems
very I didn't think about that untilright now, about that if that is

(59:07):
an injection spot, if it isimportant that little dot, right, that
puncture could have been made after shedied. Again, I guess theoretically it
could. You know, well,I also don't know what to accomplish.
It was something that will fuck updoctor Batton's examination, That'll be the ideal.

(59:29):
Well, he's the one who foundthat that high wind was actually cracked
and it had that punctual Well,the crack and the puncture are two different
things. Yeah, but it showsviolence according to Baden, Yes, yes,
which negates what Sofa County Medical Examinersaid that there was no violence.
Yeah. I had a theory aboutthat too, that that bone, because
you say it was cracked, andthen it's something that something that looks like

(59:50):
it was a needle doesn't have tobe a needle to be something else.
I figured, like, what ifshe while being strangled choked, which we
know the serra kill loves to do. Yes, maybe this time like he
had a ring facing the wrong wayor something else was and then punctured her.
You know, something else could havepushed that far in some sort of

(01:00:10):
point. I don't know, ifhe was holding keys, you know,
think of what could do it,you know, and like maybe doing this
strangulation, this thing that looks likea needle injection could be made while the
strangulation was happening. I was thinkingabout that as well. Yeah, it's
possible, I guess anyway. Yeah, it's it's crazy, it's crazy.

(01:00:31):
Yeah, Now continue on with Hackett. Shortly after Shannon's body was discovered,
Hackett sold his house and moved toFort Myers, Florida. Now, and
I don't think that's too suspicious,because you know, he's got the media
on him. You know, Shannon'sfamily is visiting him. His name's being
dragged through the mud. So hemoves, you know, his family to

(01:00:52):
Fort Myers. But that just addsto this, to his strangeness to a
lot of people. Now, afterstrangely, after all this circumstantial evidence against
Hackett, police have not interviewed himas a suspect. They haven't gotten a
written statement from him. And yourefuse a polygraph test, yet the police
won't really take a look at him. I don't know, See, what

(01:01:15):
do you think about that he's refusinga polygraph has not enough to try to
investigate further. And unless they didinvestigate further and found nothing, yeah,
I guess they got nothing on him. Apparently they say he's just one of
those weird guys that likes to injectthemselves into everything, be in the center
of everything. Now, it's alsosaid that our strange doctor Hackett has contacts

(01:01:36):
with all the big shots that partyat Joe Brewer's house, the politicians,
the police, the rich guys,the rich businessmen, which is why he
was never investigated. He's insulated.Either that or Hackett was being used like
a patsy to kind of draw attentionaway from the real killer. Again,
it's all theory. Well, ifhe was made to be a patsy,

(01:01:58):
obviously it didn't work at all becausethe police didn't even fucking look at him.
Right now, it failed, whichis the sheriff guy that right now
is number one, So that'spy.It's like weird. Yeah, yeah,
it's theory, but it's interesting.You know, was doctor Hackett at Brewer's
house that night? Did he reallydrug Shannon? And that's why she sounded
so whacked out on the nine toone one call. If he did,

(01:02:19):
why I think it's professional is whatleads. Yeah, yeah, if he
did drug her, was she meantto die or were the drugs meant to
just kind of make her more compliantso she went and struggle when the men
had their way with her. Ormaybe Hackett wasn't at the party, but
instead Shannon made the mistake of bangingon hackett store, just like she did
with Gus Colletti and Barbara Brennan aftershe ran from Brewer's house, but instead

(01:02:40):
of finding someone sympathetic and willing tohelp, she found Hackett in a syringe.
And again, I'm not trying tofeed the conspiracy fire here, but
Hackett is someone a lot of peoplepoint to is being involved in these murders,
if not being the Long Island serialkiller himself. So yeah, to
get an out of this neighborhood,Like, could she have run to him

(01:03:02):
within that same block? I mean, is it around there. It's it's
not a huge place, so I'mguessing she probably could have ran there.
I'm sure that could be seen somebody. I don't have a layout in my
head or a blueprint or anything,but you know, I'm just curious if
she could have been, if hecould have been one of the people she
knocked, right, it could havebeen. Yeah. Yeah, he's weird.

(01:03:25):
He's you know, he sounds likehe sounds like the therapist of Laura
Palmer in Twin Peaks. Oh,I remember the fucking weirdo. He's like
the weirdo doctor guy. Yeah,that's kind of that's what this guy remind
how they described this guy. That'sthat's a good analogy. He's like he's
like one of the very first suspectsin that show because he has the other
locket, the other half of thelocket everyone's looking for because like whoever has

(01:03:49):
the other half is the killer andhe has it. It's you know,
like a just like a weirdo that'sjust to Hawaiian music all day, that's
what. And if you see goto the show notes and we got a
picture of Hacket. Yeah, hehe looks strange. He's a strange looking
cat. So it all kind ofcan't ask you. Yeah, Oh,
it was a great show. Ilove it. So we got possibly a
killer cop, a crazy killer doctor. Possibly here's another tantalizing thread. We

(01:04:15):
can pull that and try to unravelwho the killer might be. Remember,
many of the victim's bodies were foundwrapped in burlap. This is one of
the links that holds this victim chaintogether. This burlap material. Apparently,
the bar lap, the burr lapthat was found with many of the victims
isn't something you can just walk intoa home depot and buy. It had
to come from a supplier, andif you could believe it, there's just

(01:04:40):
one main supplier of this burr lapon Long Island. Really, it's a
wholesale nursery operation called Beset Nurseries,owned by a wealthy businessman named Jim Bessett
the Third James Bissett the Third nowBassett, along with his business partner Joe
Petresse, they founded the Long IslandAquarium in Riverhead, Long Island. This

(01:05:06):
massive aquarium and entertainment complex complete witha twenty eight thousand square foot ballroom and
a one hundred room ocean front highat hotel. So Bissett is very successful,
very wealthy, and he's a wellrespected leader in his community. People
described him as a wonderful person,a captain of industry, a visionary,

(01:05:30):
and someone that everyone loved. Hewas even described as Walt Disney esque.
So here's where it gets crazy.Just one day after Shannon Gilbert's remains were
found, on December fourteenth, twentyeleven, James Bissett the Third was found
dead in his car in Veterans Parkfrom apparent suicide, not far from his

(01:05:54):
sprawling estate in Mattatuck, Long Island. No cause of death was ever released,
but police said his death did notappear to be suspicious. So since
Besett owned Beset, nurseries, andhe had easy access to this burlap material
that was found with the victims.And since he literally committed suicide immediately after

(01:06:15):
Shannon was found, it's no surprisepeople pointed their fingers at Bissett being the
Long Island serial killer. I mean, everything's a little too convenient, isn't
it now? James B. Bessettwas never officially named a suspect in the
murders, and he was never officiallytied to Joe Brewer's sex parties if they
existed. But could he have beenone of the powerful businessmen that supposedly parted

(01:06:38):
there? Could he have been involvedwith Shannon? Why would he kill himself
immediately after Shannon's remains were found.It's just too juicy to ignore. But
again bears repeating. Just like MichaelPack, Joe Brewer, James Burke,
and Doctor Hackett, James Bessett wasnever named a suspect in the murders now,

(01:06:58):
believe it or not, Bessett isnot the only executive from the Long
Island Aquarium that is dyed by apparentsuicide. Robert Laniari, the food services
director for the Long Island Aquarium,was found dead of an apparent suicide on
June thirteenth, twenty thirteen, justeighteen months after Jane Bessett's suicide. Not
a lot of information is available outthere at all on Lanari, and an

(01:07:21):
official cause of death wasn't released.But man, either the aquarium business is
a lot more dangerous than anyone couldhave imagined, or stressful, Yeah,
or something really fishy is going onwith this story. I couldn't help the
pun. What do you think?So obviously I don't. I don't think

(01:07:42):
he is the killer. I meanI think I say no. I think
I say hard no on this guy, mainly because dramatically, cinematically even and
there's no centema here. It feelslike a letdown if this guy tend if
this guy were to be the guy. Really it's a letdown because he's dead
already. Oh I because he killedhimself. Nobody knows anything about him.

(01:08:04):
I think the real question here islike to figure out how that it's a
coincidence, maybe that he committed suicideat this time. We need to know
contextually what was going on in hislife. Yeah, to really bring some
more light into what happened that dayor what led to that day beyond that
point. The most obvious question Ihad while you were telling me that fact

(01:08:25):
is that the day after Shannon's bodywas discovered, was it already in the
news that fast was did everyone knowor is it just police that knew.
I'm pretty sure it was in thenews by that point. Okay, then
if it was, then yes,he could have heard of Okay, I
was curious, curity. I mean, that's pretty fast. I know,
we see again, I see thata lot of the movies. I don't

(01:08:46):
know how accurate those movies are.But well, let's think about this here
quickly. This is a small thisis oh that's too a small a small
era of people. Yeah, sameas part of the club unquote. But
there's a Facebook of WhatsApp conversation goingon. But again, you can see

(01:09:08):
where Shannon's remains were found from Hackett'sporch, right, So the association would
have known immediately when that body wasfound, word would have got out like
that. So whether even if itwasn't in the media immediately, word would
have gotten out instantly because everyone sawit, you know, amazing. I
mean, I'm sure a sleuth Ican see that being a juicy thing.

(01:09:30):
Like you freaked out right killed himself. Another one is that the fact that
his death was not suspect but undeterminedyou said, or something what you say?
No cause of death was released,so they didn't say if he slid
his wrists, if he shot himself. Now could they could that that kind
of thing? The fact that theysay that to to the public, no
cause of death, we don't likethen not releasing one. Could that be

(01:09:54):
to not? You know? Tois that? Is that for for the
benefit or the sympathy of his family, to release I would hope. So
is that why I'm saying. Iwould hope it is is that way for
sure? But I would hope so. Okay, what especially if this this
because they remember I said he wasso loved Captain Disney Disney, they wouldn't

(01:10:16):
want to maybe antisemitic. Kelly reallyhated Juice right, left, right and
left. Uh. I would hopeit would be for his family. But
it could have been pills. Theynever said. But what they did release
is that it wasn't suspicious. Hewasn't murdered. In other words, you
know, it's funny because he doesfeel third fittle though to to the doctor

(01:10:38):
and to Burke. As far aspeople are closest to this guy. To
this case, I mean, andand by this case, I really mean
to Shannon Gilbert, because we mentionedon the last episode she's the unsung hero,
because we know the most of her. She's the only victim we heard
our voice, the only victim thatled to all the other ones, the
most latest victim because of that manyright, so like she's pretty important,

(01:11:03):
right almost oftentimes the last victim thatcatches the killer because the last one you
know. So uh So, itfeels like because Burke was closer, not
closer for real, I just meanthat closer in the circles, you know,
dealing with sex workers, not theright beating the shit out of the
sex workers, being at parties,being in the rich parties in the area.

(01:11:25):
Possibly most likely, like it's circumstantialin the sense that we don't know
for sure because we can't fact checksomething like this. But also the fact
that they were in charge of theinvestigation makes me feel like, is that
why they didn't pursue the good doctorfrom denying the light detective test? But
that because that I also have ledto maybe uh be set realizing that,

(01:11:46):
oh shit, I know the customerthat buys my birl aft sacks and he
gets killed. Yeah, he getsa whole bottle's worth of as usual medication
to kill him off, you know, or something like that. We don't
know, And it makes you reallyopen up the can of worms of possibilities
that how they how much more evilthis could thing, this thing could be,

(01:12:08):
which obviously the most evil, themore evil it sounds, the less
likely it is because reality is weirdthat way. We're like, we're more
brutal in reality, but not reallyquite that evil. So it makes you
ask these questions and it sounds moreridiculous as I ask them. But all
these three are connected in a way, right, they're really connected. Well,
and they found them at that veteranspark in Madatuck. Madatuck is in

(01:12:30):
Suffolk County, OK. So whowould be looking at that murder that crime
scene? Well, yeah, thebad police and not saying that all of
the Suffoc County police are bad,right, but definitely not just one.
The track record, he is notjust one someone seeing some of these actions,
even if they're innocent, let's say, and they're not doing anything about
it. That's also part of it. Yeah, just you get arrested for

(01:12:54):
not doing for negligence, right,right, But if these you know,
someone who's in the know, we'llsay, put a gun in this guy's
hand and made it staged suicide.Right. We don't even know what ye
we don't know if it was medicationor a gunshot. We don't know shit.
So if you want to look atit, you know, in those

(01:13:14):
conspiracy tinted glasses, may man,anything could have happened to that man.
Well that's the problem with not releasingwhat their cause of that. You know,
it's like you have to these roomsjust run rampant. It really does,
I mean obviously, and they don'tcare. Most police officials of any
county, of any state FBI included, they don't care what people think as
long as they know and they arrestthe right person exactly, and then that's

(01:13:36):
all they should really care about.Of course, I'm on their side in
that sense, yes, But inthis case because of the history of this
bad police, especially the bad chiefchief to be at this time and you
he's not the chief yet, butlike doesn't sound good, it doesn't look
good. He was chief in twentyand twelve, so Shanning Gibber was one
twenty and eleven. Most likely hewasn't chief yet, right, I believe

(01:13:59):
so that's what he said. I'mgonna go with that. I gotta go
back to my note SAT. Yeah, it's it's crazy. I don't know,
but we really should leave the weirdosat the Oak Beach Association and move
on. Yeah, let's shift ourfocus to something else that's really tantalizing.

(01:14:21):
Is the multiple serial killer theory.Now that the theory is that the Long
Island serial killer, either knowingly orunknowingly, wasn't acting alone, that there
were multiple serial killers involved. Sothe last bodies left by the Long Island
serial killer that we know of werefound in April of twenty eleven. That

(01:14:45):
would be Valerie mack Jane Doe numberthree or Peaches we call her Peach's toddler
daughter Karen Forgot on Fire Island andAsian male. The Asian that was just
as a woman. Shannon Gilbert wasfound in December of twenty eleven, a
bit later than the others, butwe're not sure Shannon is even connected because

(01:15:08):
her pattern is so different. We'renot even sure she was murdered so for
at least a decade. As faras we know, the Long Island serial
killer hasn't killed anyone, and peoplespeculate as to why he simply stopped killing.
He's in prison, he moved fromthe area, switched methods, and
he's still active in another state.He's dead or he was killed. So

(01:15:32):
this is a really interesting theory.There's this predominant theory that coincidentally the Long
Island serial killer wasn't the only serialmurderer using Gilgo Beach in Ocean Parkway as
their dumping ground, that in fact, there were multiple serial killers at work
snuffing out prostitutes and burying them upand down Ocean Parkway. This would explain

(01:15:54):
why earlier victims like Jessica Taylor,Valerie Mack, Karen Ergatta in Paches were
all dismembered and they remain scattered,while the Gilgo four women were left intact.
This could mean two things. Onethat in the beginning, the Long
Island serial Killer was so worried aboutgetting caught he dismembered and scattered his victims

(01:16:17):
to make them harder to identify,therefore harder for him to get caught.
And after some time of not gettingcaught, he got more ballsy and he
just left the bodies intact, hisfear of being apprehended gone. That's one
possibility. His mentality changed, sodid his mo The other possibility, and

(01:16:38):
many people prescribed to this theory,is that there are at least two different
serial killers responsible for all these murders. The women found dismembered in the pine
barrens of Manerville, New York andat gilgo In Ocean Parkway could have been
killed by someone else. Someone themedia is dubbed the Manorville Butcher a Torso

(01:17:00):
killer, and the gilgo for womenwere killed by the Long Island serial killer,
who's more of a trophy killer.Now. These Torso killers are extreme
sadists that dismember their victims a lotof times while they're still alive, and
they like to dump their bodies wherethey could be easily found, as if
say into the world, look whatI did, Look how great I am?

(01:17:23):
And Torso killers are known to scattervictim body parts across multiple areas,
and they're very angry, very territorialpeople. So another tantalizing theory is that
the Manerville butcher the Torso killer wastaunting or even hunting the Long Island serial
killer. This theory basically says thatthe Manerville Butcher knowingly left dismembered body parts

(01:17:45):
from prostitutes he killed in the LongIsland serial Killer's trophy garden, kind of
desecrating what the Long Island serial killerwas trying to do around Ocean Parkway,
his stomping grounds, his trophy garden. And really, what better way to
desecrate the Long Island serial killer's perfecttrophy garden than the toss in dismembered body
parts of women the Long Island serialKiller didn't kill, and throw in a

(01:18:11):
male, the unidentified Asian man,the outlier, and a toddler into the
mix. It could be interpreted asthe territorial manivil Butcher, the Torso killer
signaling to the Long Island serial killerand saying, hey, I'm here too,
and there's not a fucking thing youcould do about it, Like they're
having a dialogue and shit the valleyjust using body parts, right, God,

(01:18:33):
who knows. Maybe the Long Islandserial Killer was getting too much attention
and the Manruviel Butcher didn't like it. Maybe the butcher didn't like someone else
killing his prey. Remember, Torsokillers are known to be territorial, so
who knows, Some even speculate thatmaybe the Manorville Butcher killed the Long Island
serial killer to do away with thecompetition, and that's why we haven't seen

(01:18:55):
the Long Island serial Killers handywork inover a decade. And I know it's
funny but just a theory, anda lot of people crap on this idea
of the competing killers, but Ithought it's incredibly interesting. Nonetheless at the
cool movie idea. Yeah, andapparently there's historical reference to this exact type
of behavior. Now, I'm nota ripperlogist, but from what I understand,

(01:19:17):
back between eighteen eighty eight and eighteenninety one, when Jack the Ripper
was slicing and dicing his way throughWhitechapel in East London, England, there
was another killer, a Torso killer, brutally killing women at the same time.
This is fact, and this guywas even more brutal than Jack the
Ripper, leaving women all over Jack'sterritory. And one theory states that Jack

(01:19:43):
the Ripper suddenly stopped killing because thisunknown Torso killer murdered them. So this
isn't unheard of, this idea ofwarring serial killers. Anyway, there are
no less than four serial murders,murderers besides the Long Island serial killer that
could be responsible for some of thebodies found in Las Vegas, Atlantic City,

(01:20:04):
and up and down Ocean Parkway onLong Island. Now, I'm not
going to get into the weeds withall these guys. We just don't have
the time, but I do wantto touch on them in First, we
have Joel the Ripper Rifkin, oneof the most prolific serial killers in American
history, a real piece of shitthat we really should cover one day.

(01:20:26):
Now. Rifkin owned a landscaping businessand he lived in his mother's basement in
East Meadow, Long Island. Andat the same time, he was a
notorious Torso killer, believed to havekilled up to seventeen prostitutes between nineteen eighty
nine and nineteen ninety three. Justto give you an idea of what a
sick fuck this guy was, heleft the head of one of his victims

(01:20:48):
at the seventh hole of a golfcourse in Hopewell, New Jersey. Then
he proceeded to toss the other bitsand pieces of her all around the Tri
state area. If you remember fromthe last episode, the Dismembered torso of
a woman know miss Peaches, wasfound in Lakeview, Long Island, and
later in twenty eleven, her dismemberedbones were found inside a plastic bag near

(01:21:11):
Jones Beach State Park, further downOcean Parkway from Gilgo Beach. The remains
of Peach's younger daughter were also foundoff Ocean Parkway in twenty eleven. So
could Rifkin be responsible for these murders? Maybe he started two years earlier then
we're really aware of It's definitely possiblenow. Police actually questioned Rifkin from behind

(01:21:32):
bars about his thoughts on the LongIsland serial killer, and Rifkin replied it
would probably be someone like a landscaper, a contractor, or a fisherman.
And we'll see later in this episodeif Rifkin was right. Now, here's
just another little tidbit of information,something I didn't know. It doesn't have

(01:21:53):
really anything to do what we're talkingabout. But Rifkin's last known victim was
a sex worker named Tiffany Bresciani,who, at the time she was killed,
was in a relationship with a guynamed Dave Rubinstein, also known as
Dave Insurgent, the singer and cofounder of the punk band Reagan Youth,
who I still listen to today.I thought that was crazy. Don't know

(01:22:15):
them? Yeah, really good?Check him out. So Joel Rifkin could
have possibly been responsible for some ofthose earlier murders. He was a torso
he was in the area he wascutting up women as possible. Here's another
Long Island serial killer I hadn't heardof before. His name is Robert Schulman,
a postal worker from Hicksville on LongIsland. Schoulman was convicted of murdering

(01:22:36):
and dismembering five women, including sexworkers, between nineteen ninety one and nineteen
ninety six, and dumping parts oftheir bodies in trash bins all around Long
Island. He was known for smokinga ton of crack with prostitutes that he
brought back to his house, afterwhich he would beat them to death with
barbells, bats, and hammers.Then he would chop them up and scatter

(01:22:59):
the pieces. Now, coincidentally,Shulman and Rifkin were operating in Long Island
at the same time. Therefore,Shulman could also be responsible for murdering Peaches
and her daughter. Timeframe fits.Then we have John Bittrolf yet another convicted
murderer that may be responsible for oneor more of the unsolved deaths connected to

(01:23:21):
Gilgo Beach. Now John Bittrolf isa fifty seven year old carpenter, husband
and father from Manorville, Long Island. Remember Jessica Taylor's torso was found in
Manerville in two thousand and three,and her head and forearm were found at
Gilgo Beach in two thousand and one, and Valerie Max's remains were also found

(01:23:42):
dismembered in Manerville in two thousand andher skull and foot were found in a
plastic bag off Ocean Parkway near GilgoBeach in twenty eleven. Now Bitchrolf has
been in prison since twenty seventeen,when he was convicted of killing by strangulation
two prostitutes named Rita Tangretty and Colleenmcnamie back in nineteen ninety three and nineteen

(01:24:04):
ninety four, and then dumping theirbodies in the same area on Long Island's
south shore. Tan Gretty was dumpedin each East Patchog, which is thirty
five minutes from Gilgo Beach, andMcNamee was dumped in North Shirley, Long
Island about forty minutes from Gilgo Beach. So if you think about it,
since this guy was active from themid nineties and wasn't caught until twenty fourteen,

(01:24:28):
any of the victims we've discussed sofar could be one of Bitchroll's.
Well he wasn't for two victims,right right, officially evidentially, Yeah,
even though we probably did more,we just don't know. They can't prove
it. But he did. Yeah, I mean both of the I mean,
his what he's caught for. Imean the way he dumped the bodies

(01:24:49):
were. He dumped them close notthere, but close ish to the sites
that we're investigating here. And hewas from Manerville where two torsos were found,
right crazy, it seems like itboth like means like, oh yeah,
definitely it could be this guy.But also it creams what I mentioned
in the first episode, in partone of this, I mean in the

(01:25:11):
last episode where I talked about thefact that all these spots look juicy to
dump bodies, I mentioned that howit looks like an easy thing. It
looks like a serial killer's white dream. As far as dumping evidence or our
bodies in general. I mean,and you know, the ocean cleans.
All right, I feel like itcould go both ways, and I feel

(01:25:34):
like more like the latter in mycase, Like it feels like like this
guy took advantage of something, seesomething that like that looks pretty hard to
investigate and there I'm pretty sure theycan't find shit there, you know,
and took advantage of the fact thatbeing born there, being raised there in
Manorville, that he could get awaywith throughout dumping bodies in there and not

(01:25:56):
saying there isn't more. It seemslike we should just scour this entire area
all the time. You can finda lot more. Probably, well,
like they do. Remember we coveredAokigahara, the forest, the Sea of
Tree. How they have regular patrolslooking for suicide victome. Yes, I
mean, I think we should justhave that for this area because this guy.

(01:26:16):
I mean, like I said before, it looks like a juicy spot
to drop dumb bodies. And we'resure we're focusing on a few of them
right now. But I'm not surprisedthat there was more. That there was
more, That there are more peoplein jail because they dumped their bodies there.
Yeah, and don't forget Neil fallsup in Manorville. He put the
bodies in the pine barrens. Pinebarrens are notorious for being a mob dumping

(01:26:40):
ground. That's why way heard aparty like, oh yeah, people are
bodies the pine Baron's a Jersey devil. Supposed he hangs out in the pine
beards. So yeah, weird,weird? Could be him? Right?
Could be him? Could him?I'm throwing cameras on every tree and the
pine barns. Yeah, I thinkI think Richard Klinsky, the iceman,
used to dump bodies in the pineb Yeah. Now, if it wasn't

(01:27:05):
Bitchrill, it definitely could have beenthis next guy. Now, the next
person I want to talk to,the last serial killer I want to talk
about, is a man named NeilFalls. Now, Neil Falls is really
interesting. This is a guy thatmoved around a lot, and wherever he
moved, dead prostitutes tended to follow. Falls had interactions with police in at

(01:27:29):
least twenty states. WHOA, itwasn't anything serious, but mostly traffic stops,
but it shows that Falls traveled extensively. It's thought that Neil Falls is
responsible for murdering at least at leastten sex workers between ninety two and twenty
fifteen. Falls was living in Henderson, Nevada in the year two thousand,

(01:27:51):
which is significant because we have thedismemberment killings of Las Vegas sex workers between
three and seven. That would beLindsay Marie Harry, who disappeared from Henderson,
Nevada, where he was living intwo thousand and five and whose legs
wound up in divern in Illinois.Victoria Kamara, who's dismembered just outside Las
Vegas in two thousand and three.She was found dismembered just outside Las Vegas

(01:28:14):
in two thousand and three. JodiBrewer, who disappeared from Vegas in two
thousand and three and was found dismemberedin the Mohave Desert, Jessica Harris,
who disappeared from North Las Vegas intwo thousand and six with a fat unused
bank account and this day hasn't beenfound. And Misty Says, whose dismembered
remains were found at Red Rock CanyonNational Conservation Area in two thousand and three.

(01:28:35):
These are just the women we've talkedabout who could also be victims of
the Long Island serial Killer, likewhere Neil falls in the Long Island Serial
Killer intersect, proving that there maybe more than one serial killer. Now,
as for Falls, we'll never knowhow many women he killed or how
many of his victims are still outthere waiting to be discovered. And it's

(01:28:56):
not like authorities can question him.Betty yet put a torch to his ball
to make him talk. Can't bedone, because this motherfucker is dead as
a doornail. In just a hilarioustwist of fate, Neil Falls was killed
by a prostitute he was trying tokill nice. Now, back in July
of twenty fifteen, Falls responded toan ad on backpage posted by a woman

(01:29:19):
named Heather Saul. The two agreedon a price for services, and Fall
headed over to Heather's place. Thisis in West Virginia, where Falls was
living at the time. Now,he shows up at the house and within
seconds of Heather opening the door,he brandishes a gun, sticks it into
her gut and says live or diewith a fucking cliche, asshole. And

(01:29:42):
at that Falls attacks Heather Saw beatsher up really badly. Her shoulder gets
separated, he breaks some of hervertebrae. He's choking her out. She
really should have died that night,but instead, Heather grabbed a rake,
and when Falls he dropped his gunto try and get the rake away from
Heather, she grabbed the and shefired a single shot kind of like over
her shoulder, hitting Fall right inhis stupid fucking head and killed them instantly.

(01:30:08):
Now, when police showed up,they discovered a number of really scary
things. For one, Falls hadno money on him. He wasn't going
there to exchange money for sex.He was going there to kill Heather,
right, But he came in basicallystarted right away exactly. They found four
pairs of handcuffs in his pockets,and they found a handwritten list of back

(01:30:30):
page sex workers along with their contactinformation, a hit list in other words.
Now, in the trunk of Falls'scar, police found a kill kit
containing knives, a shovel, amachete, several axes, a fucking sledge
hammer, a pair of hiking bootscovered in dirt, trash bags, bleach,
and other cleaning supplies. And ofcourse, when police began to investigate

(01:30:53):
this guy's background, they start topiece together that wherever Falls lived, women
would disappear. And so far fromwhat I know, police in Las Vegas,
Texas Florida, Ohio, West Virginia, and Long Island are all looking
into Falls as a possible suspect ina ton of cold cases where sex workers

(01:31:14):
have gone missing and wound up dead. Now, unfortunately, not a lot
has been released on Falls and hispossible connection to the women we've been talking
about, Like if his DNA islinked to any of our victims. We
don't know yet. Hopefully we'll knowmore soon. But there's no question that
Heather Saw she's a hero who savedcountless women's lives by killing this piece of
shit. And so you know,the shooting was deemed justified. Heatherre was

(01:31:38):
not charged in any crime. That'sgood. You know this guy, I
mean, it feels like, Imean, we almost could have done a
show about him. He's pretty prolific. I guess there's not a lot of
information out there on him, yeah, at all, because he's dead,
Well, because he's dead, butnot saying much. I'm sure we can
find about the guy a little way. I don't know, maybe not.
He was a wanderer, he didn'tstay in one place long at all.

(01:32:00):
No mad Atlantahah yep, wow,which makes him so dangerous. Yeah,
I think pretty dangerous, you know, but do you? But we It's
funny how we don't have a lotof information. It's twenty fifteen, this
little while ago now, not toolong ago yet, but long enough.
We're like, I feel like ifhe was connected, or if it was

(01:32:21):
that his living situation corresponded with afew other disappearances across the country, I
feel like that would have been releasedby now. Well do you think it's
not holding him back? I don'tknow. Investigations take a long time,
DNA takes a long time analyzing,and I figure they everyone, everyone involved,

(01:32:42):
his dad, especially because this guy'sdad, they can take their time
with it. That could be toothat's the scenario here, just like the
attic or cleaning the the basement,something you don't ever think about because you
don't have to. I think ifhe's found to be connected to the Long
Island serial killer case, so Ithink we'd find out about that, just
because it's in the news now.But those other cases, I don't know.
I don't know if we'll find outright. I wish I could make

(01:33:05):
the call. But see again,I think I think will always be kind
of interesting, not a rush,but serious and important because these sex workers
have families, you know'd be niceto see what happened. I'm with you,
I'm with you, but but Iguess not. Uh, it's so

(01:33:26):
strange that this guy comes out ofnowhere that we know nothing about under the
radar. Yeah, that's pretty cool, pretty cool, bad not like like
it's kind of like insane that thatcould still happen. And you know,
it just feels insane that cool likeends. Then it's fascinating that a guy
that could exists in our day.Yep. I mean this guy be caught

(01:33:48):
for a while apparently, Yeah,for a long time. When did he
start? We don't know, right, I don't know, we don't know,
right, shit, we know shit, But man, scary, she
killed them. It's pretty scary.We don't know any terrifying. Yeah,
and she killed him and just justa pot shot and it hit hit him
in the head. Jesus, that'sprovidence a little bit. Yeah, there's

(01:34:11):
some divine intervention there. Yeah,yeah, yeah, she should have been
dead. I say he's the mostI like him the most out of these
one you know, these other serialkillers. I like him the most a
little bit because I mean, hismethodology is not entirely known well, but
it fits some of it, enoughof it. Maybe I don't know sledgehammers,

(01:34:35):
xes, well, I assumed tobreak your body down Jesus, so
he would be a torso killer.Maybe yeah, maybe not a trophy killer
so much based on the weapons hehad. Yeah, maybe that's safe to
say. Glad he's gone fuck him? Yeah, fuck that guy. Oh
yeah, yeah, fuck that guy. I hope he's getting raped by demons
in hell right too. Anyway,So that ends the theories portion of the

(01:34:58):
story. Is it, you know, someone connected Joe Brewer's house, some
unknown person from Joe Brewer's house sexparties? Is it a murderous psychopathic cop.
Is it a whacked out doctor?Is it, you know, one
of these four serial killers. Let'sget jump off the theories. Now,
let's talk about reality. Before wefinally discussed the real suspect, the one

(01:35:24):
authorities having custody. Right now,I want to talk about how we got
here, how police finally apprehended thesuspect. Now, keep in mind,
as we already discussed, the SuffolkCounty Police didn't do the best job solving
the murders. Hell Police Chief JamesBurke single handedly set the investigation back years
trying to hide his own egregious misdoings. Whatever those misdoings were. It wasn't

(01:35:47):
until February fifteenth, twenty twenty two, when Suffolk County Police Chief Police Commissioner
Rodney Harrison, the fifth Suffolk CountyPolice Commissioner to oversee the Long Island seriesial
killer case, announced the creation ofa brand new task force comprised of homicide
detectives, the FBI, the SuffolkCounty DA, and the Suffolk County Sheriff's

(01:36:11):
Office. The formation of this taskforce represented the first time federal, state,
and local agencies jointly dedicated investigators tosolving the Long Island serial killer case,
utilizing new scientific techniques to advance theinvestigation, as well as collaboration on
evidence gathered throughout the decades. CommissionerRodney Harrison made it his mission to bring

(01:36:33):
the Long Island serial killer to justice, and it looks like he may have
done just that as a result ofsome fantastic detective work. In March twenty
twenty two, an investigative team foundthe dark green first generation Chevy Avalanche,
which presumably is the same dark greenAvalanche that picked up Amber Costello from her

(01:36:57):
home in West Babylon on September intwenty ten, the night shot missing.
By finding the avalanche, investigators wereable to find who it was registered to,
and through credit card transactions, cellphone purchases, and cell tower data,
a picture started to emerge and aman named Rex Andrew Huerman was placed

(01:37:18):
under surveillance for almost a year.Then, on January twenty sixth, twenty
twenty three, an astute surveillance teamobserved Rex Hewerman tossing a pizza box into
a garbage can located in front ofa building at three eighty five Fifth Avenue
in Manhattan. The pizza box wasquickly recovered and DNA was taken from uneaten

(01:37:41):
pizza crust. This is like youcould see in a fucking movie. The
DNA from Heuerman's pizza crust and DNAfrom the Caucasian male hair found at the
bottom of the burlap used to wrapMegan Waterman's body. But we gotta go
back to the last episode listeners.They were a match and excluded ninety nine
point ninety six of the North Americanpopulation from being the owner of the male

(01:38:05):
hare found on Megan. It's fuckingHuerman detectives built their case, and on
July thirteenth, twenty twenty three,they arrested Rex Huerman without incident as he
was casually walking down the street inmidtown Manhattan. Reports say that Huerman asked
why am I being arrested? Andthen he asked for a lawyer, and

(01:38:26):
after he has read as Miranda rights, he's been sitting in the sixty square
foot cell in Suffolk County Correctional Facilityever since. So who is this Rex
Hireman? Well, our boy,Rex is a fifty nine year old white
guy from Massapequa Park, New York, which is in Nassau County on the
south shore of Long Island, justsix miles from Gilgo Beach and approximately three

(01:38:53):
miles from the Dafeo House in Amityville. Sorry, I had to slip that
in there. Police reports say thatRex stand and six feet six inches tall,
damn and weighs two hundred and seventyfive pounds. Is Viking. He
is a beast. I think he'staller man. He looks taller to me
because we're sure that's why. NowOgrish is the term that keeps getting thrown

(01:39:15):
around to describe this guy, rightlike how Dave Shaler described the client that
visited Amber Costello. So Goliath hasto beat him, right, right,
David Belie, I mean David hasto beat him. But that's how Dave
Shaller described him. That's the onethat when he visited Amber Costello right before
she disappeared from her home in WestBabylon. If you remember from the last
episode, Schaller described this client aslarge, white and ogrish, approximately sixty

(01:39:42):
four to six six in height inhis mid forties, which Hreman would have
been in twenty ten when Costilla wentmissing, with dark, bushy hair and
big oval style nineteen seventies type classes. What is it with murderers in these
big thick nineteen seven from Minehunter?He had those big kind of glasses.
To you, he was like themain seal killer that they portrayed in that

(01:40:05):
show, which again is Bason areal guy with the bird. There was
another big guy ball I think white. It's it's on the tip of my
tongue. I told you, onthe tip of my tongue too. Boo.
I can't remember his name off thetop of my head, but yeah,
big Oval nineteen seventies type classes.All these fucking serial killers have those
glasses and Heureman does in fact havedark, bushy hair and he wears glasses.

(01:40:30):
Human is also a husband and afather. He was married to a
woman named Asa Ellerup for twenty fiveyears, and she filed for divorce shortly
after Rex was arrested. And he'sgot two kids, a daughter named Victoria
twenty six and a step son namedChristopher thirty three who's developmentally disabled. And
apparently Rex went to high school withactor Billy Baldwin. So there's that kemper

(01:40:55):
by the way ed ed kemper.That's it. That's it, and believe
it or not, Rex Human isan architect and he owned his own firm
called our Age Consulting and Associates,which is located in midtown Manhattan right by
the Empire State Building Wow. Andhe included American Airlines, Target, Nike

(01:41:15):
foot Locker, and the New YorkDepartment of Environmental Protection among his clients.
So he wasn't some fly by nightguy. He had some big clients that
he worked with. He was awell established architect. And if you remember,
go back a few minutes ago whenwe talked about Joel Rifkin, when
the police questioned Joe Rifkin from behindbars and his opinion. He's a construction

(01:41:39):
worker, a landscaper or something likethat. Architect pretty all of them too.
It's in the ball to deal withlandscapers and other people. I mean,
they're like more had hancho ish,but they they fucking know that.
Also they care about feet separation andperfect you know, saying feet that's true
that I thought you meant cut offof feet. I'm sorry, Oh wow,

(01:42:00):
I know that's sure. That wouldn'tthat was literally you went for good
thing. Were gonna call it thethirty eight penises supposed to feet anyway,
But I'm saying it makes a littlemore sense the symmetry of the bill the
Gill go for. That's a goodpoint. You know, he's a very

(01:42:20):
mathematical brain. My grandfather was anarchitect and he did throngings like that.
He was very methodical about it.Wow, that's a great point. I
didn't think of that. Good point. Not that I'm an expert, my
grandfather was not. No, butstill that makes sense about the spacing out.
Interesting also, three twenty feet twohundred and twenty feet on those other
murders, murders, oh, theones in New Jersey, No Ocean View.

(01:42:45):
No wasn't the ocean was. TheGilgo ones were five hundred feet.
There was one set of murder thefeet behind that hotel outside of Atlantic City.
That was them. That was them. Okay, yeah, and there
were four of them right, andthey weren't dismembered. No interesting, interesting,
so Urge Consulting now now the company. Rex's company website is no longer

(01:43:09):
active, of course, but Iwas able to find a version of his
company website on the wayback Machine,and I left a link in the show
notes. So if you want toclick around an accused serial murders website,
eat your heart out. I flippedthrough the site and I got to say
it was a little creepy seeing,you know, Rex's contact information and his
photos of his projects and reading abouthis achievements. I don't know why,

(01:43:31):
but it just really kind of gaveme the creeps. Oh yeah, because
you're now. As a matter offact, I want to play a clip
oscar of Rex Huerman being interviewed bya YouTuber named Antoine Amera about Rex's architectural
business. Now. Amera runs aYouTube channel called Bonjoor Realty, and he
did a one on one interview withRex in twenty twenty two at the Rig

(01:43:55):
Consulting and Associate's office in Manhattan's recentYeah, exactly just before he was caught
ask your can we play that clipplease? Yeah? Okay. Anyway,
let's dive in. So tell usyou know who you are, where you're
from, and how long you've beenin New York. Okay, Rex Hureman,

(01:44:15):
I'm an architect. I'm an architecturalconsultant. I'm a troubleshooter. Born
and raised on Long Island. Okay, been working in Manhattan since nineteen eighty
seven. Oh wow, very longtime. Okay, So this brings directly
to my first question. So,you know, can you explain to our

(01:44:36):
audience what is it that you do, not the architect part of your business,
but the other part of the business, which is my understanding that you're
kind of a facilitator with the Departmentof Building. Is that correct? But
please tell us that's correct, butmuch more Okay, when I asked a

(01:44:59):
much more mean, I do troubleshooting, architectural trouble shooting and negotiations with
the building Department. What I meanby that is, do we do the
standard stuff with the building department?Handle your filings. I have other clients
who are a lot of other architects, and we'll handle their interactions with the

(01:45:20):
building department, especially out of cityarchitects, because they're a little afraid of
the city. And when a jobthat should have been routine suddenly becomes not
routine, I get the phone call. Gotcha, whether it's an old building

(01:45:41):
and they need somebody to understands andcan maneuver the nineteen thirty eight building code
or the current building code. Youlook surprised when I say nineteen thirty eight
building code. I've actually used thenineteen oh one old tenement laws here in
the City of New York, andyou can legally do so, all right.

(01:46:03):
My last question, if you werea tool or an object to help
you in your uh, to helpyou to bring your business to greater heights,
what would it be. That's aninteresting question, I know, because

(01:46:28):
for what I do, we haveto have so many tools in the toolbox.
Just want just one, just wantor an object. You just have
to be a tour You can bea nubject, you know what I know?
All right. One of the thingsI learned from my father was furniture
building. He was an aerospace engineerand built satellites and runs into and build

(01:46:51):
furniture at home, and I stillbuild it in the same exact workshop.
So I have one tool that's prettymuch using almost every job, and it's
actually a cabinet maker's hammer. Kivyoh okay, kevy dates maker hammer.
Okay. It is persuasive enough whenI need to persuade something, not someone

(01:47:14):
something, and it always yields excellentresults. And at the end of the
project, whatever piece of furniture orwhat I'm working on, it always helps
it come out beautifully. Okay,great, So you would be kind of
a that kind of hammer for youruh, for your business, that's what

(01:47:36):
you're saying. Yeah, there's anexist that's what you would do. Sometimes
I have to be the heavy framinghammer, other times something lightweight hammer,
just to nudge things along. Allright, I guess it's a hammer.
It is so fucking chilling to hearRex talk business so fluently and matter of

(01:48:00):
factly, while behind the businessman demeanor. Sits this raging homicidal animal allegedly,
right, gotta say allegedly, araging homicidal animal. And I'll tell you
when a Mira asks his final question, what tool Rex would be to help
improve his business, and Rex answersa cabinet maker's hammer because it could be

(01:48:20):
persuasive. My fucking blood ran cold. And then Rex goes on to say
how he uses that tool in almostevery job. I think Rex was letting
a little of his dark side slipthrough, kind of like playing with the
mirror without a mirror, even right, right, right, right right,
I'd be more fucked up by moreaccurate to say, like, oh,
handcuffs obviously, duhoy in a mirror. He's such a weird interviewer. I'll

(01:48:45):
leave a link to the whole interviewin the show notes. Okay, he
just all he does is like nervous, like you try to make it when
you're interviewing someone, you kind oflaugh at what they say to kind of
have you interviewed people, I meanfor this show, you have, right,
a couple of times we've done it. It's a little hard to get
a little thing on it, especiallyif you're not sure it is. But
this face on the subject, helaughs, uncomfortable, awkward, laughing,

(01:49:09):
very awkwardly. Yeah, Like Rexdoesn't say anything fucking funny at all,
and a mirror laughs. He justit's kind of well, I think it
might be it's because this guy isGoliath. This guy is uh, this
guy is a big guy. It'sa mountain. He's the Mountainer from Game
of Thrones. Yeah, kind ofyou know what I'm saying, Like,
I mean, you see perk Walk, it might be hard on I don't

(01:49:30):
know how I would react to.I don't know. You know what I'm
saying. You'll see perk walk photos, perp walk photos of Rex among the
you know, a couple of cops. Yeah, he towers over. He's
got course, of course, that'swhat I'm saying. He's got to be
taller than six six. But yeah, I just think because you know Ameras,
he's foreign, I think he's proofthat there are giants. Honestly,

(01:49:51):
sorry, So it's just it's uncomfortable. It's kind of sweet. Yeah,
you can tell he's like nervous,but he's trying to get to his interviews
to be at ease, So he'slaughing even when things that aren't funny air
Anyway, just watch the video you'llsee what I'm talking about. But of
course, Amera himself has been interviewedabout his interaction with Rex. Now that
everything's come out, and what herecalls most about heroman is his imposing presence.

(01:50:16):
Not an intimidating presence, Amira said, but just this very large,
imposing presence because Rex is a largeguy, right the ogre. Yeah.
That and Rex's handshake, Amera said, shaking Rex's hand was like shaking hands
with a slab of marble. Justan impossibly strong hand handshake. That's such
a strangulation made for hand Yeah.And of course Amir also commented on how

(01:50:42):
detail oriented Rex was. Kind ofthat goes back to how you're saying,
the methodical placing of these bodies detailoriented. Yeah. So again, listeners
are left a link to this entireinterview in the show notes, as well
as there's a photograph in the shownotes of Rex and Antoine taking selfies together
in sunglasses. Check out. It'svery disturbing. Yeah, so go check

(01:51:02):
that out. And since we're talkingbusiness, believe it or not, according
to these net worth websites where youcould look up how much money people got
as of this year, Rex Huremanis apparently worth between three and seven million
dollars. How about that. That'sall we really know about this guy.
Not much information is coming out rightnow, we know Rex Huerman is being

(01:51:25):
charged with first degree murders in thedeath of Marie excuse me, Melissa Bartholemy
on or around July tenth, twothousand and nine, Megan Watermen on or
around June sixth, twenty ten,and Amber Costello on or around September second,
twenty ten. He's also being chargedwith murder in the second degree for
the deaths of Bartholomy, Waterman,and Costello. Not Maureene, not Marine.

(01:51:49):
Right, he hasn't been charging herdeath, but Rex, according to
authorities, is the prime suspect inher murder. Authorities say Marine's death will
be resis soon and that there issubstantial evidence of human's involvement in her death,
including them fitting that of the otherthree women found a call go for
which he is the call one.Yes. What's the difference between accused and

(01:52:15):
charged? Like? I don't getit, like the first and second degree?
No? No, no, no, because earlier you said that he
was accused and sitting in jail,but it's allegedly still so he's not charged.
No, he's simply he's accused.How does that work? How can
he hold someone that isn't charged?I am I not understanding something. I
guess there's ample and evidence to holdhim, but they're just looking for the
smoking gun that says he did it. So there's enough evidence to hold him

(01:52:40):
despite the DNA. So that's that'sprobably one big one that's keeping them behind
bars, his DNA, right,because you know, they got him five
present this kind of thing with thejudge, and the judge is like,
oh, okay, yeah, keepthis fucking guy in right, Okay,
it's got to be the DNA that'sholding it up, that's hooking him.
I mean, that's the strongest thingI can think of. Yeah, that
and whatever else they found in hishouse, which I'll get to, Okay,

(01:53:00):
go ahead. So yeah, sothere he is. He's sitting first
and second degree murders. Of course, Human's lawyer entered a plea of not
guilty, and he requested bail,but thankfully, a judge denied the bail
request, citing the extreme depravity ofRex's alleged crimes and because Rex definitely has
the means to flee money. Yes, and fun fact, because he also

(01:53:26):
has two hundred and ninety seven gunsstashed at his house in Massapeeko Park and
only ninety two of those are permittedregistered by the way. Wow, So
there's no telling what Rex would doif he got out on bail and got
access to this weapon statue. Right, it could be like one of those
things where they go after him andhe holds off and shoots everyone. Well,
and that's exactly why police wanted toarrest him outside of his home.

(01:53:50):
Oh they knew that, going.Oh yeah, yes, if you look
into a guy, Pike can tellit. Oh, this guy's registered for
ninety two guns, right right,Okay, got it. Because there's just
no telling what he might do ifhe was cornered at home with that number
of weapons atroposals. Get him outthere, get him out in the world
where he doesn't have access. Soof course no bail was set for Rex,
thank god. Now in July fourteenth, twenty twenty three, the day

(01:54:13):
after Hueman was arrested, detectives executedsearch warrants at his Massupeico Park home and
at his Manhattan office. Now,unfortunately, not a lot of information has
come out regarding exactly what, ifanything, was found inside Rex's home that
ties them to the Long Island serialkiller case. Was there any evidence that
victims were brought to the house,or any of them killed inside the home

(01:54:35):
was Rex keeping trophies. We justdon't know yet. We do know that
a shit ton of weapons were found, and a portion of those weapons were
found in Rex's basement in what's describedas a walk in vault with a big
iron door. Now, a lotof speculation surrounds this vault. Some said
it was actually a sound proof room, which drove the Internet nuts because now

(01:54:58):
Rex had a spot inside at hishome where he could have murdered women undetected,
and somewhere he could have even keptbodies. But his wife Asa insists
to the media that this soundproof roomis simply a six foot safe used for
storing guns. Again, we justdon't know. Rex's backyard was excavated and

(01:55:19):
media drone footage, so reporters areactually flying drones. They caught investigators huddled
around some strange objects unearthed during thisdig, but based solely on this drone
footage, experts can't agree what thoseobjects are the human bones, animal remains,
animal remains are something else. Entirely, we know cops found and seized

(01:55:42):
the Chevy Avalanche and sees a bunchof playboys. They also sees two very
strange items. One is what's describedas a child sized doll encased in wood
and glass, and the other isa painting of a woman with a battered
face. Now, I left photosof the doll and the painting in the
show notes. And what these itemsmean to the investigators, we don't know.

(01:56:08):
But they took them. They tookthem mean something to them. It
does, it does. I alsoheard they took like a cat scratching post,
like a play Yeah, there's postsand little platforms and little bucket things
they could sleep, and they tookone of those or multiple of those,

(01:56:28):
I guess, And I'm guessing it'sto see if there's animal hairs on the
bodies that were found that match Rex'sanimals. It's only that makes sense to
me. But a painting and aglass, a doll in glass, it's
weird. Yeah. And after anearly two week search of Rex's property,
that's how long they were in hishouse, all the police really say is

(01:56:49):
that the search was fruitful and thatthey've collected massive amounts of evidence. Damn
boys. Well, unfortunately all thisevidence got to bealogue thoroughly analyzed, so
unfortunately it'll probably be forever until weknow exactly that all this was seen this
year, yes, a few monthsago. Yeah, this is not an

(01:57:10):
old case, guys. They havenot gonna really shit, not for a
while, not for a while,and not even like the day after he
gets convicted for real, put tojail. It'll be like still after a
while after that, probably is it. Yeah, yep. So you know,
it's gonna take us a while tofind that stuff out. And nothing
has been said about his office inManhattan, so I don't know if they
actually found anything there or not.There's nothing neither positive nor negative. Nothing.

(01:57:32):
They just that the art was executed. No word on what they found
there, if anything. Speaking ofon July sixteenth, there was another warrant
executed, this time at a selfstorage unit in Amityville. Rex rented out
this unit and it's located just twomiles from his house in Massapeico Park.
Now, again, we have noidea why the police went after the storage

(01:57:55):
unit what they might have found there, but multiple articles I've read stated that
police were looking for body parts andtrophies in this storage unit. But again,
to date, we don't know what, if anything, they found that
ties Heromanto along the Yeah, yeah, okay, So what do police have
on Rex? They gotta have somethingto hold them without bail, right,

(01:58:17):
I told you about the items takenfrom Rex's house. We know they got
the Chevy Avalanche. But if anythingDNA, which I'll get to. But
if anything was found in his trucklike DNA from the women, we don't
know. But remember that truck waslike the lynchpin because finding the truck got
the police a name. It gotthem the pizza box yea. Since they
had the name, police were ableto access credit card information which sold purchases,

(01:58:42):
specifically burner phone purchases, and inthis case, burner phones are really
important. So let's take a lookat that. Rex thought he was really
slick when he used these quote unquoteuntraceable throwaway phones to contact his victims,
and really the information authorities were ableto gather about these phones, specifically when
and where the phone's pinged specific celltowers, along with how Rex's personal phone

(01:59:08):
and victim cell phones also pinged specificcell tours. This information is what really
put the final nails in Rex Heureman'scoffin. Now the cell data, it's
really involved, and the details couldeasily be found by googling Rex Hereman's bail
application. If you really want toread this in nitty gritty detail, just

(01:59:28):
google Rex Heureman bail application. It'sout there. What you need to know
is that investigators found no instance whereRex Hereman was in a separate location away
from victim cell phones. Whenever tauntingcalls were made using Marine Brainer's barn cell
phone and Melissa Barthelemy's cell phone.Whenever and wherever a victim's cell phone moved

(01:59:51):
or whenever a burner phone move thatwas used to communicate with a victim,
so did Rex Hureerman's personal cell phone. Like this dumb bastard had a burner
phone or a victim's phone in hishand or to his ear while his personal
phone was in his pocket or onthe front seat of his car. Try
to explain away that one plus nearlyall communications Berner phones had with the victims

(02:00:16):
conveniently pinged cell towers in Massapeeko Park, which we now know is where Rex
Human lived, Midtown Manhattan, whereRex he Woman worked, Amityville, where
rex he Wuman kept a self storageunit, and West Babylon, where Ambi
Costello lived and disappeared. It isIt's wonderful or gladdening even to think that

(02:00:39):
this guy once saw a movie abouthow wonderful burners are, like how glorious
they are used for secrecy and thenit causes downfall or I'll come, I
guess previous and stuff. But yes, wow, it's literally like he was

(02:01:01):
making a taunting call. Yeah,I'm watching your sister rot. Well he's
got his fucking personal cell phone inhis pocket. Yeah you know. God.
Also, don't buy a bernafone withyour credit card. The same cash
cash, always cash cash and barterit if you have to, But don't
use your fucking don't use something thatconnects. That's the whole point Yep,
how do you not know that?Unbelievable? So Bernafone is very important to

(02:01:25):
the case right right now. Whatabout DNA. In the last episode,
we talked about how male and femalehair was found on three of the victims
found on Gilgol Beach. Through rigorousDNA testing of the female female hair found
on Amber Costello, Megan Waterman andMarine Brainerd Barnes when compared to DNA extracted
from bottles taken from Rex Hereman's garbageoutside his home, it was determined with

(02:01:49):
over ninety nine percent accuracy that thefemale Caucasian hairs came from Rex Hereman's wife,
Asa Ellerup. Wow. Now,as of today, there's no evidence
that Asa participated in any of themurders or that she even knew what her
husband was up to. In fact, a lot of the murders were committed
while Asa was verifiably out of NewYork State on vacation. All we can

(02:02:14):
say right now is that ASA's hairwound up on the three deceased women through
an unintentional transfer by Rex. Imean, my wife has really long hair,
and it's everywhere. It's on myclothes, in my car, all
over the house. So this alsomeans that he maybe brought a few of
the victims home. We're gonna getinto that, Okay, Yeah, because
yes, I think so, right, because that's whether her or hair would
be most that I think so.I could have been in his vehicle,

(02:02:36):
could have been on his clothes,vehicle. I can finally probably find a
hair on me right now, that'sKatie, So that it's very possible.
But I do believe he was bringinghim back to the house. Now,
if you remember from the last episode, a Caucasian male hair was found at
the bottom of the burlap Megan Watermanwas wrapped in. And I mentioned earlier

(02:02:58):
that DNA from Huroman's Peace Crust matchedthis here with ninety nine point ninety six
percent accuracy. And after Rex wasarrested, his DNA was swabbed and that
DNA result matched the DNA from thepizza crust. Gotcha, bitch, Yeah,
that's pretty damning. Okay, sothis this part is messed up.

(02:03:19):
So something else authority is able tofigure out. Through a legal process served
on Google actually, which sought recordsand accounts associated with specific Burner phones that
Rex purchased, it was discovered thatRex also kept multiple Burner email accounts,
specifically an account named Thomas Hawk THawk zero eight zero six seven to two

(02:03:42):
at gmail dot com. Now,just so you know, listeners, I
did my due diligence and I senta message to this Thomas Hawk email asking
for Rex's side of the story.And I'm still waiting for a reply.
Right, Yeah, You're gonna beweighing a lot for that one. But
I did I swear that. Anyway, It's important to note that when Rex
was arrested, he had on themthe Burner phone associated with this email address,

(02:04:05):
and the address has been definitively linkedto Rex Hureman. When police scoured
the Thomas Hawk search history, theydiscovered that Hawk or Hureman liked to watch
videos of women being horrifically tortured,as well as gut wrenching child pornography.

(02:04:25):
Now I have a list of someof the things human search for using this
email address, which I found inRex's bail application. You can find all
this, and I'm gonna warn youthe shit's pretty rough to hear. Now.
This sick fuck googled things like prettygirl with bruised face, porn torture,
redhead porn, ten year old schoolgirl, short, fat girl, tied

(02:04:49):
up porn, tied up in rapeporn, chubby ten year old girl,
crying the fuck, blonde hair girl, young and depressed teen girl, oiled
bodies, teen girl begging for rapeporn, hen tie, plump pussy lips,
cut off porn, Asian twink,tied up porn, preteen girl with

(02:05:10):
makeup, old janitor's gangbang, littleschoolgirl, and crying teen porn. Just
fucking awful. I really click.Something in this list that really sticks out,
or should stick out, is thatsearch term Asian twink tied up porn.
Remember in the last episode, right, we told you about that unidentified

(02:05:30):
Asian male yep, the outlier.He was described as petite and he was
dressed in a woman women's clothes whenfound, So he perfectly fits this idea
of what some would call an Asiantwink. So I don't know, you
know, this song reminds me ofa This made me think of a of
a theory as well these Google searches. For one is that I'm sorry we
forgot them all because there's a fewof them and it's kind of hard to

(02:05:51):
heal. He I'm not hard tohear, but it's hard to swallow.
Like I feel like I remember writingI don't know why I wrote this one,
but I remember writing about the peaches. How that felt like that might
have been one of his Like,I feel like he's living out, literally
a fantasy, which makes sense.That's what seria killers do, live out
their fucked out fantasies, or theytry to recreate it. But more importantly

(02:06:15):
is that maybe this killer is actuallymore of a pedophile than we're giving him
credit for. I know that's alreadyworse. This is the worst version of
what he is now. But becauseof his frame, his size, the
reason he searches for petite one hundredpounds solk and what kind of girls is
because to him they would be theclosest or might as well be children for

(02:06:41):
him, and that because of hisframe, he can get away with this
much easier than actually trying to killchildren who are much more taken care of,
protected by society order to get awaywith those kind of kills, and
that this way is much easier,he can fake it. Kind of that's
deep. I thought about that thelast episode, Like it's pretty close to

(02:07:04):
the victims. It's much better toget these kind of victims that are ignored
but that fit closer to his profilebased on these Google searches. Yeah,
I mean, think of what GusColletti said, right the right the fourteen
year fourteen right, That made methink of that too. Wow. Yeah,
maybe what if his searches have nothingto do with necessarily his taste,

(02:07:26):
or it does have to do histaste, but it has to do with
the fact that he is like heis finding a facsimile version of what he
really wants, which is children,or like, let's just go with tweens.
Maybe very interesting. That's an interestingone. I haven't seen that one
yet. That theory, that's veryinteresting. That's what I have. Disgusting,
it's horrifying, man. Yeah,it's not good, not good at

(02:07:48):
all. Nothing is good, notgood, Bob. In these two episodes
all right now, in addition toRex's disgusting internet searches, he also obsessively
searched the names Megan Waterman, AmberCostello, Melissa Barthelemy Marine, Brainerd Barnes,
John Bittrolf, one of the serialkillers we just talked about. And

(02:08:09):
he searched the terms the Long Islandserial killer and why hasn't the Long Island
serial killer big caught? Among otherthings. Can you very quickly tell me
ask Skinny on John Berthrow Petrol Beetrollwas the one from Manerville who dismembered prostitutes.
Okay, thank you, no noproblem. This is unbelievable. There's

(02:08:31):
even video surveillance footage of Rex ina cell phone store in midtown Manhattan,
adding minutes to the burner phone usedto authenticate the Ta hockey melases. You
just think that everything in mentime isnot at all remotely like surveyed he's like,
he's like your grandmother, like tryingto get on the Internet and stumble
around the Internet and shit at it. I could open a folder, look

(02:08:54):
what I could do. Yeah,I'm a hacker. I got burner phones.
I'm never gonna get caught. Fuckyou. Yeah, yeah, it
does seem that way. He seems. I mean he's great, thank god,
because ever he's smart about it.Right, No, right, So
let's talk about rex Huerman's connection toLas Vegas, because if you remember from

(02:09:16):
the last episode, we told youabout five murdered sex workers found dumped in
the desert surrounding Vegas. That wouldbe Victoria Kamara, found in Boulder City,
Lindsay Marie Harris, who disappeared fromHenderson, Nevada, and whose legs
were found in divern in Illinois,Jody Brewer, whose torso was found wrapped
in cloth and plastic in the MohaveDesert, Jessica Foster who's never been found,

(02:09:41):
and there was Misty Says whose partialremains were found wrapped in plastic in
cloth near the Red Rock Canyon NationalConservation Area. Now coincidentally, rex Huerman
owned timeshare properties in and around LasVegas since two thousand and four, and
of course, between two thousand andthree and two thousand and six we have
these five cases of murdered sex workersbeing dumped in the desert in areas that

(02:10:05):
are actually eerily similar to the remotenessof Ocean Parkway over on Long Island.
Now, according to public records,Hureerman owns a two bedroom timeshare at Club
Dissolas, located at five four ninetynine West Tropicana Avenue, about three miles
west of the Vegas Strip, whichhe bought with his wife in two thousand

(02:10:28):
and five. Hureman previously owned atimeshare at two six' five East Harmon
Avenue, just east of the VegasStrip, which he bought in two thousand
and four and sold in twenty thirteen. Now you tell me, Oscar,
does the fact that Hureman owned propertyin Vegas prove he's the Long Island serial
killer? No, what it doesis that it makes more sense to look

(02:10:50):
into that. It's circumstantial as fuck, right, Yes, just another piece
of the puzzle that could help hangthis guy. It's this part of the
thing you mentioned before about them youmentioned before I think either this episode last
episode, Sorry about how the policeare looking into DNA about these cases based
on the guy they just accused,or they have to see if these the
DNA matches other murderers, murders inVegas specifically. Yes, they're testing also

(02:11:16):
testing right, right, right,right, so we'll see, right that
could I could bring up a fewmaybe that's what, if anything, Maybe
the longevity of his accusedness whatever it'scalled, right might speak into like how
much should they're gathering, Like Jesus, this guy's popping up everywhere. That

(02:11:37):
could be a thing too. Iknow it's very recent and the law moves
very slowly, the wheels of justicego very slowly. But uh so it
could be any reason why. ButI'm saying that could that could be one,
right mm hmm. I don't know. Do you think he did the
Vegas stuff? Personally? I thinkit's I think it's a very real possibility.

(02:12:01):
Yeah, he was there. Hewas there during the time. I'm
gonna go. I'm gonna go withthe light. Yes, yeah, did
you say a light? Yes?Yes, yeah, I'm gonna go with
the light, yes, the light. Yes. It's because I'm not convinced.
And Jessica foster O come because she'sall she yes, is missing.
And and from what I remember fromthe notes I took really so I could

(02:12:26):
have gotten wrong, is that Ididn't see any a lot, like a
lot of history of her prostitute.She was going to a dentist appointment.
Yeah, give me see, shewasn't working, she had money, she
was going to dentists. You I'msaying she wasn't working and she had twenty
five K. There's no body thatthe money hasn't moved either, which makes
sense. I'm saying that the murderhave it because of her. They wanted

(02:12:48):
her, but like it doesn't fitthe profile for me. Interesting, So
I don't think she's a part ofthis. I blame more the pamp or
the friend that got her into thewhatever it was, the Canadian guy or
whatever, like that was her.Right, There's so many, Yeah,
there's so many. I would haveto go back. Like even Lindsay kind

(02:13:11):
of gives me a little bit ofthings. Also Vegas, Lindsay Apgarta lasting
she had a rental car, whichmakes a little sense if she's traveling.
There are sex workers that travel todifferent cities to spread their wares, have
something new or part of their vacationcould be a lot of reasons why,
But I'm not saying I don't thinkthat's her and she was going to the

(02:13:31):
bank. Yeah, that's right,that's right. Again, that doesn't fit.
This guy calls them, he searchesfor them, calls them. Yeah.
No, I think a smart serialkiller a smarter serial killer, because
let's face it, this Rex guynot that smart, not that smart as
smart as he thinks he is.Anyway, he seems like one of those

(02:13:52):
guys like he thinks he's smart,but he's not really. I think that
a smarter version of this guy wouldcould call a service, call a call
girl. Right, I'll call asex worker and either meet them or not,
either cancel or not, but getenough information about maybe whether at getting
that phone number through some sort oftexting back and forth, emailing back something

(02:14:13):
to get information on them and thentail them to get them later. That's
a smarter version of doing this kindof thing. I'm not saying that this
guy is doing that with his hackgetting them at the dentists appointment or at
a bank, But based on everyother murder, not the case doesn't seem
right to me. You make agood point, right, Yeah, not

(02:14:37):
having the body definitely makes this harder. Yeah right, right, so fuck
the desert is a big place.That's a big there's a lot of bodies
out there. And then you know, her phones haven't been used, her
credit card he hasn't been used.The bank account has been touched. Unfortunately,
it all points so she's gone.She's dead. But yeah, whether
it was Rex, I don't know. I'm with like Victoria the artist,
a seventeen year old that fits forme. That makes sense to me.

(02:14:58):
It could be him, for sure, but not not so much. Even
Jody is a little weird. Hercuts, we're clean, Like, how
do we That's the only one weknow whose tool they use. That's right,
they said they used a surgical saw. Now yeah yeah, yeah,
And that to me, that doesn'tsound like the Gilgo guy. That doesn't
sound like him either, sounds likesomeone who lives there and has that with

(02:15:20):
him. Who care? Who travelswith that around? Well? You know
who had a ton of instruments?Was that Neil Falls guy? That's I
can see him. I mean youcan say I know nothing about the guy.
I can see that guy more thanthe guy who's we do know about
Breck specifically. God, I hopewe find out soon. I hope something
I need to know. Fuck,I need to know. Yeah, sounds

(02:15:41):
like that Mark Anthony song. Ineed to know. Could we plug that
in right here? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know. The next line
something baby out of needs to Idon't know, he says the uh.
But here's the thing about so Ihave another question? Oh wa, yeah,
we done? No, we're not. You have more, Julia,

(02:16:01):
Okay, go ahead, Sure,I'm trying to get to the end here,
I promise. But since all thisstuff about Huroman has been hit in
the media, people are seeing itright, and it's been triggering these memories
of interactions people have had with Rexor with some of the victims, and
people are coming forward with some prettycrazy stories. Now, I've chosen five

(02:16:22):
witness stories to share with you thathave come to light recently, and let's
see. Let's see if you thinkthis is damning evidence. Now, these
are five different women that have comeforward who claim to have had strange and
even frightening interactions with Rex heremen.One may even lead to another body.
Two of them are Two of thewomen are prostitutes, three or not.

(02:16:45):
Two of the women have signed affidavitsswearing their stories are true. Three have
not yet they may. One ofthe women, a prostitute who hasn't submitted
a sworn affidavit but swears her storyis true, claims that Rex Hueman picked
her up in his truck in Queen's. He drove her to a park,

(02:17:05):
had her perform oral sex on him, after which he pulled the gun and
said get out of the car orI'm gonna kill you. The woman panics,
she gets out of the car,and Rex says, do exactly what
I say, or I'll kill you. He then tells the woman she's gonna
be picked up by another client,and almost immediately another suv pulls up and
the woman gets in. All wereally know about this second vehicle is the

(02:17:28):
driver is a black guy, andthat when the truck drives away, Rex
followed them. Now the woman,our witness senses she's in real danger here.
And as they're driving to god knowswhere, for God knows what second
location. Second never go to thesecond location, you know, and Rex
is trailing them, our witness,she sees a cop so she grabs this

(02:17:52):
steering wheel and she yanks it tothe side, which causes this truck to
just suddenly just swerve to a side, which grabs a CoP's attention and the
scuv gets pulled over. Now,a cop talks to this new guy,
the black guy, and to Rex, and he ultimately tells our witness if
she wants to file a complaint againstthese two, she has to go down

(02:18:13):
to the police station to do it, and then the cop just drives away.
We don't know what was said betweenthe cop and Rex and this other
driver, but thankfully the woman livedand she refuses to go on record about
the incident, but she swears it'strue. Now I find the story compelling
because there's two people. There's twoguys, Rex and this other driver,
which begs the question did Rex havean accomplice? Why did Rex pass this

(02:18:39):
woman off to someone else and thenfollow them? What did they have planned
for her? Also, this incident, if it's true, shows that Rex
used guns to subdue and manipulate hisvictims, even though none of the women
we talked about had gunshot wounds.This interaction does give us a little more
insight into how Rex operated, howhe hunted. Is the gun the cabinet

(02:19:03):
maker's hammer he referred to in theinterview at Antoinamera, that special tool he
uses in every job. God knowshe had enough guns, right, right,
I think right, the fact thathe has like two hundred plus guns
does this well. Like also,it feels like it doesn't need it.
It's a giant fucking duce. Butyou're right, the gun is the safest

(02:19:24):
way to get something faster as faras having a victim or hostage or whatever.
So yes, I completely about it. Again, his gun knowledge or
his gun collection. I think it'scompelling to see that he might have an
accomplice because, I mean, wedon't know what he means. If the
story is true that this guy isthere, it could just be a one

(02:19:46):
off. I have no idea,We have no idea we could go anywhere
on this, but like it's shadyfor sure. And I think at the
worst case, if he had anaccomplice, it might explain the Torso Torso
killer behavior going on in the inplaces but where he's around, and may
explain that that's what this guy likesto do. And like, meanwhile,
he's like sitting there, like Ilike, my girl's facing east five hundred

(02:20:09):
pet apart and you like and wholeright, you like, you know,
fucking heads there and shit like that. Like, fine, just go on
Ocean View. I'll go here.I don't know a right. So they
were together working and that's the worstcase of this case, right, that's
like, that's like the worst waythis could work. I don't know if
they flip a coin, like Iget this, I get this girl,

(02:20:30):
you get the next one. Idon't know. Wow, you know right
now, I sound like I'm pitchinga Dexter plot to you, the Showtime
show Dexter. But that's how ridiculousit feels, as I'm saying it,
but stranger than fiction. Man,this has happened before. Everything happens in
Murphy's launch it. She's so luckythough, that thing that was a good

(02:20:52):
move. That was a good move. I mean, that's watching movies right
there. I mean that's right out. Also the fact that the cop just
laughed and whatever was going on therethat, Like I can't understand why she
wouldn't want to sign any affid likelike I don't trust she don't trust anybody.
No, he doesn't matter. Itdoesn't matter if it's a piece of
paper like doesn't mean anything to her. It just means that you'll get in
the warst shit. Probably I canunderstand her like being like completely precarious or

(02:21:18):
precautious. I want to be thelaw or not the law about this kind
of thing. You don't trust nobody. She could be terrified not trust I
can by her not signing AFFIDA,But it doesn't mean much to me other
than the fact that she doesn't trustanyone. Yeah, Or she could be
at a completely different stage of herlife she doesn't want to be associated with
that. Oh that's even either.Yeah, more understanding. So like,
but what a strange encounter, man, very strange. Again, it could

(02:21:39):
just be a oneer. What doyou think is going on with that guy,
the black guy neither truck? Youknow, I really I kind of
like your theory how they're kind ofsharing women. Right, it's likes it
one way, this guy likes itanother way. Maybe this context text.
Yeah, maybe money was exchanged toRex. If the guy gave money for

(02:22:00):
this prostitute, who knows. Butwhy did Rex follow him? Then?
Hard to say. I don't know. Yeah, hop with a disposal,
I don't know. Help with thekilling, the murder, I don't know.
Is there a fledgling murder? Ishe like is he his grasshopper?
Or is he training him is like, what the fuck? Right? Yeah,
it's just so out of them.It's just so out there that it's

(02:22:20):
hard to grasp what was going onwith me? What are my thoughts on?
I don't know what they were thinking. I'm kind of hoping that that.
I mean a lot of killers loveto talk when they're caught. I
hope this guy loves I hope itall comes out. So I really hope
in five years time we had thefull story or something. That'd be kind
of cool, because it's been quiteit's been pretty quiet. It's quiet,

(02:22:43):
yeah, but it's also driving me. It just happened. You're gonna you
gonna be driven us for a while. I don't know. Have to let
that go. A couple of littlethings are going on. I'll cover that
at the very way which we're gettingclosed. Okay. Now, another sex
worker came forward, claiming to haveservice res over twenty times Wow. She
described him as a serial user ofprostitutes, sometimes ordering two women at a

(02:23:05):
time and offering often ordering women tohis own house while his wife Aesa was
home. Now. According to thiswitness, who has not signed an affidavid
about the story, she claims thatAsa his wife was well aware of what
Rex was up to with its prostitutesbecause on one occasion, Asa blamed one
of the prostitutes for stealing a clothingiron from her house. So if this

(02:23:30):
is true, this proves Asa knewRex was bringing prostitutes into their home.
This witness also said that Rex wasalways polite and that he treated her very
well. This is a completely differentRex than we've heard so far, you
know, because he'd be the Rexlike well, okay, let's suppose that
this couple, Asa and Rex arein an open relationship. She knows about

(02:23:52):
it, she's fine with it,maybe not fine with it, but he's
living with it. Let's say thatright, because there are many kinds of
relationships out there at the ethically nonmonogamous as a real thing. There's many
ways to do polyamorous as a realthing. I'm not saying this is polyamory,
by the way, but you knowwhat I'm saying, it's it's it's
it's in the same ballpark. Let'ssay that happens if he treats Maybe he

(02:24:15):
behaves differently at the house when she'saround, when she's not on vacation.
Maybe he's like different about it.Because again, I don't think she'd be
I'm not saying that she she shouldhave. I mean, maybe she should
have been smarter about realizing what's goingon. Sure, maybe that, But
like as far as like I don'tsee her being a part of this thing,
I can see him totally like playingit up. That's an understanding wife,

(02:24:39):
that's for sure. If that's thecase. Yeah, holy shit.
Yeah, But I have another storyhere in a few minutes. We'll see
what you think about ASA after thatone. But I got one more story
before that one. Okay. Now, this next witness came forward and she
did sign an affidavit swearing her storywas true, and it's an interesting one.
Now, this witness isn't a prob. She's actually a banker by day,

(02:25:01):
and for extra money, she drivesa cab at night. Now,
this witness claims that one night intwo thousand and nine, she received a
call from her dispatcher saying that therewas a woman at the Sayville Motor Lodge
that needed a ride, but thatthe woman's locked in a bathroom in the
hotel room and she'll only come outwhen the cab gets there, pulls up,

(02:25:24):
flashes its lights, and honks itshorn a bunch of times. So
the driver gets to the hotel,which is in Suffolk County on the south
shore of Long Island, and shedoes the horns and light thing a few
times. But the woman the fair, she doesn't come outside. Instead,
a giant man that fits the descriptionof Rex Hureman came out of the hotel

(02:25:45):
with his arms blocking his face sothe cab driver couldn't see him. The
guy runs thro an suv that's parkednearby and he peels off. He takes
off. That's when the woman finallycomes out of the hotel room. She's
crying, she's shaking, she's obviouslyincredibly upset. She gets in the cab
and our witness the cabby takes thewoman to a train station in run Konkama,

(02:26:07):
Long Island so she could get backto New York City. Now what's
crazy is that the cab driver,in a sworn statement, claims that this
woman was in fact Shannon Gilbert.During the drive to the train station,
Shannon, if it really was Shannon, told the cab driver our witness that
she was lured to the hotel underthis large man's promise to help her and

(02:26:31):
her family financially. But she saidthe envelope the man gave her that appeared
to be stuffed with cash when sheopened it was actually stuffed with scrap paper.
That's when Shannon freaked out and lockedherself in the bathroom. Of course,
Shannon makes it to the train stationand she gets the hell out of
town. Now, a little whilelater, this same cab driver gets a

(02:26:54):
call from her dispatcher saying that there'sa man that needs a ride from a
bar. The cab driver pulls upto the location and she sees a huge
man dressed in camouflage get up andstart lumbering towards the cab. When he
gets into the back seat, thewitness instantly recognizes this guy as the same
guy from the hotel where she pickedup Shannon. It's Rex Hureman. Rex

(02:27:18):
tries to get the driver to completelychange they agreed upon itinerary, instead insisting
that she take him on a drivein some nearby woods. Of course,
the driver absolutely refuses, and Rexgets incredibly upset and he says to the
driver, this is a quote Ialready want to kill you. Just give
me a reason. And then hepulled a gun. Now, all this

(02:27:39):
is happening. The dispatcher's here andthe whole thing. So he gets on
the radio and he says, wesee you, we hear you, we
know who you are. And atthis he panics, he freaks out,
He gets out of the cab,and the witness speeds away. Now,
if this is true, if thisreally happened, it establishes an action between

(02:28:01):
Shannon Gilbert and Rex Huerman. Itdoesn't prove that Rex killed her, or
that Rex was even there the nightshe went missing. As far as we
know, he's never been an officiallink. There's never been a link between
Rex and Oak Beach Association, likethe parties at Joe Brewer's house. This
could all just be the world's biggestcoincidence, but it is circumstantial. I

(02:28:22):
don't believe that. So I havea big thing on this. You're going
to wait, do it now?What's doing now? Okay? So I
took I guess, very painfully closebecause that fucking Nylon one call didn't make
sense to me. I got totalk about the nine one one call.
Well, this goes back to thisis Shannon. This is I was waiting
for that after day for this reason. I quote I, I you know

(02:28:46):
I have a dialogue right here.Okay she Okay, So it's very strange
that that Shannon told this cab driverthat this guy was helping me financially.
Obviously, maybe she doesn't want toadmit it could be easily just sociable cue,
like she doesn't want to admit,like I pay for sex and he

(02:29:07):
didn't want to pay me. Idon't know if she was hiding that fact
or if something else was happening.You know, I mentioned earlier in the
first episode, how not Shannon necessarilyI might have mentioned over her, but
I don't think so with other butwith other people that are any one of
these victims a connection personally to thekiller. Okay, I'm not saying it's

(02:29:30):
true. They could all not be. Most likely they're not. But this
weird affidavid fact that she said thatand that way she makes me feel strange.
And again I'm not saying because it'sthat affidavit, I should immediately believe
it more. But I do feellike I believe it more. So I'm
saying that this versus a cab driver, not normal citizen, quote unquote normal
citizen. I'm not doing anything legal, is what I'm trying to say,

(02:29:54):
not shown by society. I likethat more. You know what I'm saying.
It's two women, Yeah, takinga long drive. One's incredibly upset.
They strike up a conversation. Ithink it's natural. Also pretty smart.
What are you crying about, honey? I mean, I wouldn't trust
the bathroom with that frame. Butyeah, I guess he couldn't take it
down. Maybe I don't know howhard he tried. I'd like it.

(02:30:15):
She's very smart. Just went inthere. Immediately, call the thing.
Make sure you make the noise,make the honk, the lights. There's
witnesses. Yes, I like ita lot. I like that a lot.
And then I want to call Yeah. I wrote a few things in
quote. So listeners, you gotto go back again and listen to that
first episode because we play this whatOscars talking about here? We played for
you. Yes, so peace,go back. It's all on the clip

(02:30:37):
that we showed. I did listento the whole thing. But this is
where the real meat and potatoes are. Anyway, what we showed on the
show, that makes no sense.It's what I'm talking about here. Quote.
This is in the order that shesaid it to quote. Why do
you call me by my name?Oh yeah, why did she say that?
I know, I know, Iknow, trust me, they don't
tell anyone that real nice don't tellyou know, they don't tell anyone their

(02:31:01):
real names unless we unless we justdon't hear Michael Pack saying come on,
Shannon, let's go, and she'slike, why are you using my name
in front of Joe Brewer? Itcould be that, right, I did
think of that too, but you'reright. I was going to go,
why you call my name? Well? And then doesn't she follow it up
with like you've been involved the wholetime, you've been part of it.
I might get there. Oh,I'm getting there. Yes, So actually
that reminds me of a question thatshe just said before. I should have

(02:31:22):
asked before this. Is it verifiablethat the other two voices are only Pack
and Brewer? I mean, that'swhat's in every report, is that that's
who you hear in the background,and that it's not like we know if
they know, like, we don'tknow how they know that, right,
I'm trying to remember where I readit. Does police force have no fucking
clue if they just bought that andthey're like, we're just want it done.

(02:31:43):
Yeah, it wasn't in a courtdocument or anything like pretty much.
Because you know, when I takefacts for stories, I try to cross
reference those fas I know you dothree times. I know you do.
So if it's repeated three times,I take it as pretty factual, pretty
factual. And that's what That's whata lot of the stories say, is
that. That's who you hear inthe background. One you could tell is
Michael Pack because he has an Asianaccent. You can tell. I mean,

(02:32:05):
I couldn't really tell. It washard to hear some of that to
really listen to it. But you'reright, you can't tell. And some
of them I'm sure I hear.And let's go upstairs from one of the
men. Is it upstairs or downstairs? I heard upstairs. It could be
downstairs. It's hard to hear.Yeah, I heard upstairs. I could
be wrong, but no, youmight be right now that I'm thinking about
it, and it's in the midstof her like being freaked out, obviously

(02:32:28):
she's calling now on one. I'mhearing this, so like, is it
trying to like if it's Brewer tryingto stablish his night. If it's not
Brewer, let's say, I initiallythought it might be Burke. I'm way
less thinking that based on this Affidavidis it racks trying to separate her from
the other people. She knows whatthat means, right anyway going on?

(02:32:52):
Did I just get the fucking goosey? I hope so? And then she
asked, what are you gonna doto me? What are you gonna do
to me? Are you gonna killme? I hear that here and then
from him, I'm thinking it's himnow began because of Rex. Let's go
back to Manhattan. Yeah, let'sgo back to and the way he said,
let's go back to honest, gotthat's how he says it. No,

(02:33:13):
I believe he's just like, we'llalso make it one of the way.
He says this, but something aboutnear water. He says, we're
not near water, or we're almostnear We're on Long Island, we're near
the ocean. Yeah, it's it'sI think that's Michael Pack, Her driver
said, because she's like, wheream I I don't know where I'm at?
Yeah, you're you're in You're onLong Island, near the ocean,
near the water or something like that. Why that's the show? She's way

(02:33:37):
out of her mind at that point. I don't know. And then she
says, you're being sarcastic about this. You were a part of this all
along, there you go. That'sa big one. That's my favorite one.
Not a favorite one. It's terrible, but that's a big one.
Is Pack a part of this?I'm getting I'm getting body goosebumps everywhere.
I'm thinking Pack was a part ofthis. I'm thinking that maybe Rex bided

(02:33:58):
his time with this victim that gotaway found the way in Now. I
was thinking initially that it might havebeen through the Brewer, and I could
still be right, But now I'mthinking it's Pack. Okay, So there's
a little pattern, right with Rexhunting down the taxi driver, yes it

(02:34:20):
got away. I mean that's himhunting down the one that got away,
trying to to yes, try totie up loose ends. So you got
to listen to the interview with himand antoinamera because you hear his voice for
twenty five minutes. You hear Rex'svoice. Now that I'm thinking about,

(02:34:43):
oh did I just hit the mic? Now that I'm thinking about it,
it could sound like Rex's voice inthat nine one one call based on watching
that video of the interview with Antoinamera. That's oh man, Yeah, I'm
freaked out. Hope. So becauseI feel like this solidifies more of a

(02:35:05):
resting and now I maybe have totake back my original statement, my original
theory that Shannon was the one offin this case, the coincidence that brought
on all these other cases. Somaybe she really was a part of it.
Maybe he even killed her close tohis dropping his his hunting grounds to
make it easier. Even I callher the here to go gole beach to

(02:35:31):
do it, you know, hmmm, a faster, more streamlined. I
don't know. And she was justtoo spry to she didn't know it was
a different it was a different client. Yeah, and she got freaked out.
I mean she screamed it. Shesaw him walking down the block towards
Colletti's house. She fucking screamed,Yeah, because after her, she doesn't

(02:35:54):
want to be alone. That's whathe wants alone with her. That's where
the scream happens is at Colon's house, at his front door. I can
see you're trying to get in thedoor, trying to call the COS and
she sees her like, yeah,big ass fucking frame. Are you kidding
me? And knowing that she narrowlyescaped once in the hotel room, Dude,

(02:36:22):
I need a drinkin. I'm tellingyou that gave me complete body goosebumps.
Man. Yeah, and that Ireally wanted to mention that because it
just seems like he's tying loose hands. He let the he let the cat
go. He was scared. Thatdispatch was smart. It's a few smart
moments in this whole thing. Yeah, you have very good there's no camera

(02:36:43):
in there. Obviously he's bullshitting.He could hear, but he can't see.
And I guess based on his replyhe knew Rex's name. But yeah,
Rex fell for it knows he's notas smart as you think. He
says, thank god he got caughtbecause he's not as he thinks he is.
But still, I'm telling you,man, I feel like he did

(02:37:05):
Shannon. Damn. I hope wefind soon. I hope we find out
soon. Yeah, you know,they said they got mountains of evidence from
his house. Let's hope. Yeah, part of it solve Shannon's I mean
that one seems like a quick job, for sure, quick job, we
know because of how she was heldyeah, compared to the others, but
it could just be that this story. Man. Yeah, anyway, what's

(02:37:28):
the other one? We have more? I know, yeah, I got
two more. So this next witnesscame forward with a swarnffidavit, but she
wasn't a prostitute. Instead, shewas a swinger back in the nineties.
At the time, our witness,she was dating a New York cop and
they would go to swingers clubs together. Nothing wrong with that. Now,

(02:37:48):
in nineteen ninety six, when thecouple were visiting a popular swingers club called
Latrepez in Midtown Manhattan, the couplefound an advertisement in this bar, in
this swingers club for a house inMassapequa Park hosting swinger parties. Yes,
so the two, the cop andthis girlfriend, they decided to go to

(02:38:11):
the home in mass Pekle Park forsome fun, but not before picking up
another woman, a prostitute who hadjust gotten out of jail. Now,
according to witness our witness, theprostitute, she was in a bad way.
She was disheveled, messy looking,she was hungry, she was really
banged up, and she was veryreluctant about going to this house. But

(02:38:31):
when she found out that the bandshe was with was a New York City
cop. She relented and went along. Now, supposedly, according to this
witness, the house they went tobelonged to Rex Huerman and Rex's wife,
Asa was there that in fact,Rex and Asa were swingers. Again,
at the surface, there's nothing wrongwith this, but it does shed a

(02:38:54):
slightly different light on Asa. Thewitness claims Rex and this cop had sex
together, and the CoP's girlfriend,the witness, also had sex with Rex.
Asa, on the other hand,she was supposed to have sex with
the witness, But our witness isblack. She didn't know that originally,
and apparently Asa doesn't get down likethat. Okay. Now, Ultimately,

(02:39:18):
the cop and his girlfriend leave thehero men's house and they leave the prostitute
behind. That disheveled woman they pickedup, Yeah yeah. When our witness
asks the cop her boyfriend what giveswhile they're leaving this woman behind, he
answers that we're just playing a game. Everything's fine, don't worry about it.
And before they can pull away,this woman comes running out of Rex's

(02:39:39):
house, buck naked and screaming,But again the cop assures the witness are
his girlfriend, Hey, everything's fine. They're just playing a game. They
do this all the time. It'snot until much later, when the witness
sees a photo of Karen Vergatta onthe news, the sex worker whose partial
remains were found on Fire Island,that our witness realizes Virgatta was the prostitute

(02:40:01):
they picked up and brought to Huerman'shouse, the one who was just playing
a game with Rex and his wife. In case you don't remember from the
last episode, Karen Vergatta, she'sthe one that disappeared on Valentine's Day nineteen
ninety six. Two months later,her feet and legs were found on Fire
Island, and five years after that, her skull was found off Ocean Parkway

(02:40:22):
near Peach's remains. Now, ifthis story is true, that puts Karen
Vigatta with Hueman and his wife insidehis home, and it also makes Asa
out to be much more involved inRex's doings than we know. Remember when
her hair was found on a fewof the gig four victims, kind of

(02:40:43):
makes you wonder, does was ita few? I thought that it was
just one. Did I mistake that? I believe one of the victims had
two hairs on her? Okay,good strange. If that's true, that's
fucking huge, man, that's verystrange. Also, like I'm curious as
too. She divorced that cop,right, so they weren't dating, okay,
and the CoP's never been named JohnRay, the lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's

(02:41:05):
family, he knows who this copis, won't release the name. But
they were just dating at first.I was thinking, I was thinking Burke,
Yeah, Burke was he was selfaccounting. He wasn't New York City
right right, But they're a skipor a hop away. But like still
doesn't mean yeah, it doesn't meanthat, yeah it was. I don't

(02:41:26):
think it was Burke. But whata crazy what a crazy story that one
is man to think of that?I mean do I mean? I mean
it seems like that story is itnot designed? If it's real, which
sounds real, I mean that soundsreal, but it's more weights added to
its reality because of its signed thatfor David of course. Besides that,
that's I think it is not designed, but it sounds like it's designed to

(02:41:48):
implicate Asa, do you think,yeah, to definitely, I mean,
it connects Racks to this horror,this thing, but like he's already a
connect it so like. But Ithink what it also does is that it
may be implicat say so, atleast in the public's view and the public
not actually it's circumstantial, but inthe law. But to the public it

(02:42:11):
does, Yeah, because it doesto me right, you know, makes
her look a lot more shady.Yeah, not this innocent housewife who is
you know, either completely ignorant orunder the thumb of human and couldn't say
anything but new Yeah, it definitelymakes you see more involved. What do
you think about this cop saying like, oh, it's the game or whatever
the fuck? Obviously he's involved.He knows what's going to happen. He

(02:42:33):
brought her there, I pick herup. He brought her there. Do
we know the ethnicity of this cop? Nope? Because could he be the
other guy in the truck? Neversaid Yeah, I don't know. I'm
saying from that earlier incident, whichis maybe why the other cop let him
go. Yeah, because he's acop himself. I don't know. I'm
just saying, is this more conis as connected as it feels like or

(02:42:58):
not? Man, with this story, it wouldn't be surprised surprising if it
was connected like that is there likea mafia for circulars. Oh dude,
that's a cool story movie idea,right, that's a movie idea. Yeah,
wild, isn't it. That's aI mean, how do you make
money of circuling? You can't?All right Now, this final witness is

(02:43:20):
something I found out about very recently. I had to script it in here
at the last minute, and ithas to do with another sex worker that
disappeared where Rex owned some property.Now this property, it's four lots of
land located in a wooded area inChester County, South Carolina, less than
two hours from the Red Bay Roadarea in Sumter, South Carolina. Or

(02:43:43):
a thirty six year old mother ofthree named Julia Ann Bean disappeared on May
thirty first, twenty seventeen. Now, since the year two thousand, Rex's
younger brother, Craig Huerman, haslived just down the street from Rex's property,
and Rex has visited with his brothermany times over the years, so
he's definitely been in the area Rexhas now According to Julia Bean's daughter Cameron

(02:44:09):
or Caim. On the day Juliadisappeared, she and her mom were meeting
up at a nail salon to getmanicures because Cam's high school graduation was the
very next day. Now, accordingto Cam, Julia pulled up to the
salon in a dark colored truck drivenby some unknown man. The man chatted
with Cam for a bit and hetold her he owned big boats and lake

(02:44:31):
properties, and he offered to takeCam to concerts, and he said he
wanted to marry her mother, Julia, and that was it. After this
interaction at the nail salon, JuliaBean was never seen or heard from again.
It was discovered at Julia's house thatshe left behind her wallet, cell
phone, and keys, as wellas her purse with cash inside. Now,

(02:44:54):
at the time of the disappearance,Julia was addicted to drugs and she
had turned to prostitution to support herhabit. And again she's never been found.
Now, I left the picture ofJulia Bean in the show notes.
But she was attractive, brown hair, blue green eyes. She stood five
five feet six inches tall, weighedone hundred and ten to one hundred and

(02:45:16):
twenty pounds. And then if thatisn't the perfect Long Island serial killer victim,
right, yep, I don't knowwhat is now. It wasn't until
Rex was arrested and his face plasteredall over the media that the daughter Cam
put two and two together and realized, holy shit, that man driving the
dark colored truck was Rex Hureman.And authorities are investigating Cam's claims seriously.

(02:45:39):
But again, Rex hasn't been chargedwith Julia's murder and he is not even
a suspect as far as I know. But if he could be convicted on
circumstantial evidence, he'd be fucked.I mean how fucked, But a lot
more would be too. That's crazy. That's a new one. I definitely
wasn't just recording. Yeah, thatis that's so. And finally, here's

(02:46:03):
one last thing that points to Huerman. If you remember from the last episode,
when we discussed the discovery of MarineBrainerd's Barnes body, Marie Brainer's Barnes
body at Gilgo Beach, we saidthat she had been bound by three belts,
and one of those belts was avery unique one because it had the
initials w H or HM stamped intoit. Remember, depending on how you

(02:46:24):
held the belt WHHM. As itturns out, Rex Huerman's grandfather was named
William William Huerman w H. Now, listeners, that's really all I got
for you. On the Long Islandserial killer. There's really been no developments
hitting the media since maybe early Augustor so. I did read that Commissioner

(02:46:46):
Rodney Harrison, the guy who assembledthe task force that finally caught Huerman,
he's stepping down from his position sometimethis December to spend time with his family.
Whether this is the real reason,or there's some power it takes behind
it, I don't know. Buthe's leaving the Suffolk County Police now.
Finally, finally, finally, I'llleave you with this our old friend,

(02:47:09):
the disgraced Suffolk County Police Chief,James Burke. He was arrested in a
sex solicit solicitation sting on August twentysecond, twenty twenty three, so,
I mean just recently at Suffolk CountyVietnam Veterans Memorial Park. Burke was accused
of soliciting a male prostitute and exposinghimself. But the male prostitute was actually

(02:47:33):
an undercover park ranger. Now,according to the report, Burke pulled out
his pants, pulled his dick out, and began to masturbate while telling this
park ranger that he likes quote suckingdick. Burke was charged with public lewdness
in decent exposure, criminal solicitation,and offering a sex act. Now,
for whatever reason, the charges ofcriminal solicitation and offering a sect act sex

(02:47:56):
act were dropped, and of coursethe puke pled not guilty to the public
lewdness and indecent exposure charges. Hewas due back in court on October sixth,
but I've not seen anything, soit's likely been postponed. And just
today, as we're recording this,I read that Asa ellerup Rex's wife has

(02:48:18):
struck a deal with production companies toput out like a docuseries on for Peacock
and fifty cents. Production company gunit is involved Peacock. I just cancel
that it's gonna be coming out ofPeacock. I'll give you my login going.
I got so And a lot ofpeople are fucking pissed about this because

(02:48:39):
rumors say she got a million bucksto tell her story. You said,
yeah, you're selling your life,life story, yeah, yeah, and
others reports, other stories I readsay that she's getting much much less.
All she's selling is the rights tolike the name, personal stuff, photographs,

(02:49:01):
just personal items. She's selling therights to that stuff so they could
use it. That's it, thatthis is gonna go without a hitch.
I mean the guy hasn't been properlycharged. No, I mean I'm saying
likely wait for the fucking story tofinish. Yeah, you got for bad
Jesus. But you know, andthen that business though, being versus quality,

(02:49:22):
right, Yeah, and they don'tcare. They don't care. They
would be first, right, theywould be first, and they don't give
a shit about anything else. Yeah, that's all we really know. She's
suing the stuff Acounty police wants toget those guns because all the guns were
confiscated. They say there's a fewhundred thousand dollars worth of guns. So
she wants that because she needs themoney. Apparently the police guys, there's
no no passing down his money toher. What's that called, sorry,

(02:49:48):
inheritance, inheritance or something. No, I'm assuming all his money that he
has if it's great to court andright, yeah, I got it,
got it and anything. I'm suretheir assets are seized any money. He
does have his seat at this point. So, uh, you know,
apparently the police completely fucking destroyed theirhouse while they were looking forward so that
they got nothing. So you know, there was GoFundMe set up for Asa

(02:50:11):
and her kids. Now she's gotyou know, she's selling the rights to
her story, and she wants tosell all the guns. And I think
the guns are going to go backto her because she needs money. They
got nothing, and their house isa piece of shit. Yeah, Which,
so that's the one thing you'll readabout the search warrant that was executed

(02:50:31):
on their home is that supposedly hewas a millionaire. He had a successful
architectural business, but his home wasa fucking dump. Did you see pictures?
Oh yeah, it's a dump.It's it looks like shit. Yeah,
so, and it's cluttered. Hebought the home from his mom,
you know, for a ridiculously lowprice. It's an expensive neighborhood that they're

(02:50:52):
in. So he made out likea bandit there. He grew up in
the home that's his childhood home,left it, left it cluttered, full
of ship. Yeah, but itmakes sense that his grandfather's belt would still
be in the fucking house, right. W h makes me feel like even
more likely that there's definitely some shipthere. They said they got mountains of

(02:51:15):
evidence. I'm thinking trophies and thinkinga lot of things. Yeah, and
if she is as innocent as I'mthinking she really is, in the end,
I have for Aesa. I hopeshe makes it up as much as
possible. I feel sorry for thekids, Like when you look at the
pictures, especially the son Christopher,he's mentally challenged, you just feel real
bad. Yeah. Yeah, AndI got pictures of a family on the

(02:51:37):
show in the show notes listening.They're also victims, especially the kids.
They're innocent, definitely part of itin a naive way. Something I was
just gonna say. Something else Iheard recently was listeners look up time out
dolls to google the term time outdolls, and then in relation to Long

(02:51:58):
Island, Serra Killer looked that upto Yes, so you saw the photos
Oscar show it to me. Okay, Yeah, so they found what's called
timeout dolls, and apparently these werebig in the eighties and nineties. There's
kind of they're kind of these crocheteddolls that are made to stand against the
wall and they look like kids intime out with their nose against the wall.
Super creepy, fucking the dumbest thingI've ever seen. So dumb,

(02:52:20):
yes, but it's all so whatthey what was happening is for each of
the gig four victims, they hadlike little memorial service memorial spots where their
bodies were found, like you seeon the side of highways and stuff.
You see the cross from motorcycles peoplethat died, same thing here. They
had these crosses set up with candlesand their names on the crosses. Well,

(02:52:41):
someone put these Timeout dolls at thesecrosses. Yeah, as if to
say these women were bad. They'reon Timeout. How fucking sick could you
get? And one of them,I think it was Marine Brainer Barnes.
One of the time out dolls hadlike stuffing coming out of its mouth m
signifying like something was done to thisperson's mouth, you know, maybe during

(02:53:05):
the murder or something like that.Fucked up, dude. It brings out
all the craziest kind of ship.Bring out the crazies. Some guy in
some basement somewhere I saw an opportunity, Like my chance, that's what it
is. Because people were saying,oh, it's Rex, it's Rex putting
the girls in time out. Imean could be, but I don't think
so high. But that's it.That's it. Riving from Manhattan to that

(02:53:26):
park and that's it. Right backand forth. He's just going back and
forth. Want an asshole? Yeah? No. One thing I was confused
about too, is I'm not surewhere his avalanche. Yeah, the Chevy
Avalanche was confiscated. From some storiesI read made it sound like it was
at his brother's house in South Carolina. Did you see it coming and just

(02:53:50):
got it from there? If yousaw it coming brother to his brother,
I don't know how it wind upfor his brother. Other stories make it
sound like it was CONFI skated athis master people Park home. So that's
great. It goes it's fifty tofifty. Where did they find this thing?
But I don't know how much isthat? Is that even important?
But maybe it could be, certainlycould be if there's blood or hair or

(02:54:11):
some sort of result. There's brothercould be mixing the gain. I don't
know what the book, but apparentlyhis brother has been in trouble at the
law. Shit like that, likesmall shed or bigger shit, assault on
neighbors, and he's just kind ofa fucking wacko. It's a drunk of
wacko, ma'am. I guess,sir, that's where they hang out.
I guess so. I mentioned inthe first part one of this show.

(02:54:33):
Again, if you have the anyof this far without us into part one,
What's wrong with You? We mentionedthat psychic, Yes, some of
that psychic that got something right.Yes, So I'm surprised that you didn't
say anything more about that in asense like, well, I'm sorry,
nothing more came out of that.In reality, meaning that she the psychic,
I imagine is that she didn't comeout to try to capitalize on this,

(02:54:58):
or like the family sought her offfor further predictions that we know about.
Obviously we don't because you didn't sayanything else, might to assume there's
nothing else we know. And reallythat was just a blurb. And I
think it was like a New YorkTimes story. It was a blurb.
It was just a blurb in thatstory that I feel like we're a supernatur
podcast. We should probably ask Iremember, you should call her up.

(02:55:20):
I think she'll answer which victim thatwas? And I don't have episode one
on me on my iPad here,but you're right, one of the victims
the family content. I think itwas for Marine or it was from of
the Go Go for it was oneof the Go Go It might have been
Marino more that's I'm thinking because thepsychic said that she'll be found in a

(02:55:41):
shallow grave near water, yes,with a sign with the letter G.
And of course she was found onthe shore of the Atlantic. Creepy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, did I mention to you about the
uh Peach? Was that off airabout Peaches and her kid? I think

(02:56:05):
it was off air? So Imention, now we had an idea today?
Yeah, yeah, I had anidea about it. I was listening
to part one on the way homehere on the way to this recording.
Sorry, and it's like at homeno lately, yeah, fucking lately.
Yeah, Katie's like, what up? She doesn't even say how to be
privately about how it was strange andpeople were saying that obviously she had her

(02:56:28):
kid with her and that people weresaying that speculating that she took your kid,
whether it was like we hard tofind a babysitter or the care and
took him to an alcohol but like, no, no, no, most
likely it was an in call.We got a lot of these, a
lot of these situations and murders happenedwhen they were in calls too, so
like, yeah, most likely itwas her place where she had her kid

(02:56:48):
with her, and then another roommaybe or if it was a motel,
same room, maybe the bathroom,who knows, And then maybe he cried
disturbed. You know, it couldbe a lot of things. I even
said that I could have been amercy thing, like instead of letting the
kids start just killing me. Idon't know how darkness goes. I'm just
saying that. I think that's morelikelier than her bringing her baby outwood to

(02:57:09):
a call. I want to mentionthat because it seemed like most people were
thinking alcohol, Like, no,I'm thinking in call on that one,
which is fucked up for sure.But what isn't fucked up here? Yeah?
Is the thing the seventeen year oldfrom the Victoria, the artist,

(02:57:31):
the DNA that's pending with her.That's interesting you mentioned that. I assume
that's for the Falls guy, theNathan Falls Or is this for Rex?
I think it's for Rex. Okay, I hope so well. It could
be it could be Neil Falls too. Yeah, no, I mean you're
right, it couldn't. I thinkevery murder should be hell up against that

(02:57:54):
guy as much DNA as you can. I think he was way more active
than ten things so too. Imean, that guy is pretty scary,
the fact that we know nothing,and when you see his picture he looks
like a fucking pip squeak dude,like like STABUSHEMMI uh. And that movie
where he plays a serial killer.What's that movie? Con Air? Oh?
God? Like that he looks alittle more fuller in the face.

(02:58:16):
Okay, but yeah, he justlooks like a fucking do like a teacher
or something like a Yeah, it'sso weird. So I have two more
things regarding Atlantic City. Yes,it seems like that's the least likeliest scenario
that anyone we talked about is involvedthere. I don't know, those are

(02:58:37):
mols are different. It feels likeit's different enough. I'm not saying that
the way they looked. Yes,they're all sex workers, I get that,
But like, I know that mentionedthe problems with the Vegas ones,
I mentioned those those. Apart fromthat, I feel like Atlantic City feels
like a completely different killer to me. Yeah, we don't forget Atlantic City.
They were behind that hotel, yes, and they were evenly spaced three

(02:58:58):
d and twenty feet apart. Theywere told their heads were facing east.
Yeah, the east, they saythe gig victims heads were facing east.
It just seems so bizarre, LikeTracy, New York, New Jersey.
I'm Tracy, right, that's adrive because they love comparing each other.
That is a drive far. No, you're right, it's not far.
And I felt I felt weird.I think mainly because of Tracy, her

(02:59:22):
whereabouts like that. She was thefourth victim that we talked about, third
one, third one for the AtlanticCity. They're all ages twenty nine to
forty two, So that threw meoff to the age. Yeah, a
little bit older. That's twice olderfor thirty what was it forty two,
thirty, Yeah, that's a littlebit older. I think, noticeably older

(02:59:46):
for this guy. If it's ourguy, that's what That's what threw me
up. That's exactly what. That'sthe I knew. I wrote it down
for a reason. That's why.But I think also a common theme with
those women is they were they wereheavily. Is that the thing is that
the drugs were used to subdue themtoo. This guy didn't never needed that.
Either they did it themselves or hegave it to them, we don't

(03:00:07):
know, but some of them whenyou mentioned there were lethal amounts yeah,
yeah, so the one leaves sono, I mean he meane this.
I mean I feel like this killerused a different entire methodology and like different
types, not different types, butdifferent women, different victims. It just
doesn't feel right to me. Ithink the age is the biggest one there,

(03:00:28):
and I don't know if that's abig sticking point for me. I
just think they were so badly addictedto drugs that they were just way too
convenient. That's what I think.So it was easy pickings for him,
easy pickings. Maybe that's what you'rethinking. Yeah, the age doesn't really
bother me. Well about the twounknown men that accompany her with Tracy when

(03:00:48):
she leaves the hospital, Mom saysthat, yeah, I know, I
know that's your accompany men. Wementioned that guy with the truck earlier with
the one other one, and mentionedfact that he could be have an accomplice
with him. Is that what thatis? Last scene with two unaccomped two
men accompanying her, That's yeah,that's the story, you know, and

(03:01:11):
just missed her mom by five minutes. By five minutes, she was coming
right back. If you drove allnight or ninety minutes straight. Yeah,
And it's never really clear on whosees them. Yeah, was it a
hospital worker that sees them? Prostitutethat's where the background the streets ready and
the prostitute senior with two john's.It's not clear, but yeah, who
are those people? That's who I'mlooking for from a cop. Yeah,

(03:01:35):
And there was really never a physicaldescription of these people put out there.
I have been far enough away tonight. Yeah. Well one was almost seven
feet tall, that's rex. Yeah, nothing was ever given. That's the
other thing I think I mentioned inthe first take of this thing, where
like the worst thing you can beis be so distinctive that you can be
described from a farm, Like youcan't be a serial killer. You can't

(03:01:58):
be seven feet tall and be aserial killer. No, Like you're so
easily spotted. What an idiot?Like just curb your appatite or cut your
legs off, because what are youdoing commit murders on your knee? Right
right right? Just go kneel down. That's a funny image to me.
That's probably not good. But youknow what I'm saying, like like he's

(03:02:20):
too distinguished, and the lgarness alsodoesn't help, right, No, nothing
helps, it does, nothing helps. I feel like, this guy should
have been caught a long time ago. Obviously, this speaks more against our
systems and shit, and have tomention our socially speaking systems of not respecting
adult human beings like sex workers.We talked about that last episode, right,
but yeah, the lost stuff isnot very good, very slow and

(03:02:41):
ignorant, and this is the resultof that because this guy should have been
caught so much longer ago. Lookat the phone. Shit agreed, what
an idiot agreed? Yeah, theythey really dropped the ball on this.
At least he's behind bars now.Yeah, let's hope this is the guy.
We have to really saddened me asif it comes out that he killed

(03:03:05):
way more than we even know,like, because that would just make it
worse. You know, Like,I don't know what is a window?
You know, everyone talks about aserial killer has their their window not appetite
window. They call it something,right, their window? How many times
they kill before they have to doit again? Right when the next time
they feel they have that cooling offperiod? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(03:03:26):
they call it something though it's notname for it. I don't know,
so I don't know how many morekills they have, but best. Well,
Fiat thought, let's hope it stopshere. Yeah, let's hope it
stops here. Yeah, until westart hearing more about this Neil's fall.
Neil falls guy, right then,I think we're going to see a trail
unfortunately with him. But time willtell. Yep, time will tell,

(03:03:48):
and hopefully some new news comes outso we could update you guys. Yeah
on this case. Yeah, right, right, should have like pangs and
notifications ready, you can, Yeah, you can set up Google Now,
that's a good idea. I shouldset up a Google alert so anytime anything
with Rex hits, the news willget links to it, and we'll try
to keep you guys updated. Doyou have more questions? No more thoughts?

(03:04:11):
Maybe a couple of little ones,but no big deal. I think
I got everything. Are you sure? I am good? Yes? All
right? Well, you know,I hope everyone liked these two episodes.
Make sure and check the show notesand have a merry Christmas. Is that
going to be? This is goingto be close to a yeah, okay,
so time in December. We'll comeback in January, probably January.

(03:04:33):
Okay, so merry Christmas, thankyou, yeah, Merry Christmas, bastards.
Well then there you go, screCould you please hop us along home
a long case at each wow,Goose Island sticker and ship. Yeah,

(03:05:24):
do you want some or no?I will try some. Anything you gave
me I'm putting in my mouth.Okay. Oh that was nice, satisfying
sound. Oh interesting, hmmm.I like the wait of this. It's

(03:05:48):
a nice it's a nice cap.It's a very nice cap. We're so
dorky that we're so into the sheda little bit. That's good, thank
you. And it's a hundred proofso it's not like insane, but it's
good on this hunter proof. Yeah, that day when we recorded part one,
I think I rank too much,too fast. It was a little

(03:06:11):
little dizzy, A little dizzy.Yeah, I need neither. But yes,
I'm digging the smell. Yeah,I'm digging the smell too. Let's
try Oh you want to try iton camera? Yeah, we'll try on
camera that we can give our ourreactions there. All right, fair enough.
I've been recording for I don't knowhow long now, so oh okay,
anyway, lucky, let's try this. Oh no, we want to
try it on the on that thing? Yeah you ready? Yeah, okay,

(03:06:39):
I wish I still smoked. I'vebeen feeling like smoking lately. I'm
sorry, am I bad influence onyour No? Okay, no, but
that does smell like it's the wecall them the bumin natty. Like when
you go to Italian weddings, theyhave these little lace packets filled with these

(03:07:00):
candied almonds. Delicious. Oh they'reso good. And that's what that smells
like. It smells like those candyalmonds, And it's like, do you
want to try it? No?You kidding? I got what half a
foot in the grave as it is, the last thing I need to do
is start destroying my lungs again.Yeah, I get it, all right,

(03:07:20):
Yeah, baby, drink, keeptrying to go for I want to
drink this fucking whiskey. Okay.See this is the difference right here,
instead of like well no, no, no in my head anyway five four
three two one Part three to mentionlike, it's not like quite like that.

(03:07:45):
It's more like like I don't knowstuff stuff and things are things you
could tell I was. I wrotethis part at home because it's well thought
out, was full suns. Andthen you're like Karen Manhattan, okay,
Jody two thousand and three, cowgirllike. I said that because I'm driving.
Fucking dude. You gotta be careful, man, I do it careful.

(03:08:07):
At least you weren't watching a movie. Well I was done. No,
I wasn't, but nice will be. Oh yes, chocolate noodle nipples,

(03:08:28):
baby bumpers. What's a noodle nippleor trying to get to No,
I know what you're doing. Yeah, I need water. Gonna go get
some water. Okay, Well Isaw you going five four three two

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Episode 153: Long Island Serial Killer - The Suspects

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 153: Long Island Serial Killer - The Suspects