Episode 155: Ever Dream This Man?

Every night, all over the world, hundreds of people dream about the same man. He's known only as "This Man", and all who dream of him describe him the same. His face is round and his chin is boxy. His hair is black and receding. Eyebrows like pitch hover over black eyes that almost look kind. His lips are thin and turned upward in a coy smile. He's oddly familiar, yet a stranger. He looks human, yet he doesn't. No one knows who he is or where he comes from...or what he wants. Have YOU ever dreamed of This Man?

[Topic starts at 08:35]

• Sketch of This Man
• This Man is Michael J Anderson
• This Man is Carl Sagan
• This Man is the Twilight Zone dummy
• This Man is Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber
• This Man is every man
• Outtakes after the show

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome to the one hundred and fifty fifth episode of
the Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I plead the fifty fifth.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
I plead the one two, three four fifth, Yeah, exactly.
My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and
who is you?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Who is me? My name is Oscar Spector.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Producer, Extraordinary and podcast co host. Two shows in a row.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
They don't know that. They don't need to know that.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
They don't need to know that.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Oh, I see two shows in a row. Made like
and yes, Oh I see that, and I ruin the magic.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I'm fulfilling my promise. Yes, have you been?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Have you been?

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Oscar?

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh, I've been good. You know there is something.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
You've got news, because I don't really have any news news.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
There's something recent. I mean, this is a pop culture thing,
but I think it's fun and I think it's up
your ally. I've recently been into this thing that I
found on TikTok. TikTok inspires me so randomly and I
don't nowhere or it tells me about something so randomly
and out of nowhere, as as social media does.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Do you know I don't have TikTok.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
I believe it well, you're I don't have it. I
think there's an age when you start going on.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Do you know how hard it is for me to
watch TikTok's that people send me because I don't have TikTok.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Is it hard?

Speaker 1 (01:49):
It's very hard.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
So I should stop sending you.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Time to consume me.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Just fucking get the.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
App because the Chinese are watching.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
They're watching you anyway, and they don't also care what
you're doing.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, I'm nobody, right, literally nobody.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Like we're all really nobodies. You have comfort in that
have comforted that you're a part of the masses. Yes, sorry, no,
you're find friendship anyway. But three TikTok I found this thing,
this thing that's been on and already a thing for
a while years now. You know you are familiar with
the Harry Potter franchise, of course, yes, More importantly, you

(02:25):
are familiar with the Harry Potter novels. Yes, big fan
you are. We are a big fan. That's one of
the things we bonded over super big fan earlier in
our friendship.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yep. Remember I had the final book delivered to my
wedding reception.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I remember. I tell that to people often.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
But the caveat here is it's been ages since I
read those books or seen those movies, right, and hopefully
I don't have to draw on my knowledge here, Well,
not too much. The old memory isn't so good no more.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
You've also heard a fanfic? Correct?

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes? Right?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Have you read any fan folk? Are looked out? Looked
out for any specific fanfic and in your lifetime doesn't
have to be sexual A dozen This.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Is so stupid. Yes. And it was Texas chains Texas
Chainsaw fan fiction, Okay, very specifically that And I don't
remember the number of the movie, but it was the
one with Matthew McConaughey, number four I think is that four?
I think where he was part of a society and

(03:25):
with the nipple rings the guy had three nipples.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
All this fucking it's vague in my memory, but I
remember that movie being crazy.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, in the movie itself, that whole thing is vague.
So I went online what the fuck does this mean?
And then I got down the rabbit hole of fanfic
on that particular.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
People expand on that universe.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yes, yes, and it went in crazy places. I bet
as fanfic does, so I am familiar with it.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, okay, I found maybe the my favorite at least,
not that I'm an expert in Harry Potter fanfic, but
I found an amazing piece of fanfic that's been around
in famous for a while, again new to me this year,
that I think you might be interested in.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (04:07):
So it is fifty chapters. Wow, they're long, and they're
not long long, but they're like the equivalent of two
early Harry Potter books or one later novels size books
basically that length. Think of that length an extra book,
let's say, accounting a time where it's called oh no,
not again. That's what it's called. Oh no, it's called

(04:29):
oh God, not again. Sorry, my bad, oh God, not again.
And I've been I've been listening to the audiobook version
on YouTube, which is free to hear. So that's how
I've been doing it as I work out or as
I make legos or whatever. And some person, some random
person studied paid attention around it. Yep, super famous in

(04:50):
the Internet. And what it's about is that the synopsis
is that Harry Potter is twenty three, he's about to
become an or this is after the events of Baldemore
Down and everything's spoiler for that old show now movies.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I don't know if it's spoiler anymore.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
No, I don't think so. He starts having these dreams
or nightmares about the Veil, the veil that took Serious
Black and the Department of Mysteries in book five.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Oh god, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
That's right, YesYes, just having these weird dreams about it.
And then he goes to sleep. Something happens. He seemingly
goes through the veil in a weird way, and he
wakes up. He is eleven years old again. Oh he
is back on Private Drive and it's year one of
Harry Potter, but it's him being twenty three years old.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Like mentally he's twenty three, so he knows what he
went through. Uh huh, now he could do things different.
I'm in it's exactly. The shit that he does is funny,
it's interesting. It goes into weird, wacky places because he's
having fun. He's not like fearful of everything. He's fucking

(05:54):
with everyone. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
He's interested in making money fast. He's like, for example,
like he befriends Draco like day one.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Instead of yeah, oh my god, like that right there
right there changes the entire universe.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
When he meets Lockhart Kilroy kilde Word Lockhart, he like
joins up with him to make a book about their
exploids and make more money and get understand his celebrity status.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
It is, dude, I got a bookmarked right here.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
It is awesome.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Thank you for that. That is cool because I am
kind of looking for something new to get into read
them finishing up a Stephen King book that just came
out right now now, So I've been looking for something
I would be.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
I've been listening to five chapters a day and I'm
on a chapter twenty eight or something.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
So let me ask you what fanfic does it have
to be multiple authors or could it be one?

Speaker 2 (06:40):
And this case is one author it is. I don't
know how they are normally. I'm sure it's a mixed
match of all last year. But this is one person
well and some and some people did like a They
collected money maybe through Patreon. I think it was through
Patreon to make the audiobook Wow available and that took
him a while to subscribe and paid stuff and they

(07:01):
finished it all it's been finished and I've been listening
to it.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
How old is.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
It I don't know how old, but you're years old.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Now, Okay, I will definitely check it out.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I know Howard ends. I'm like a little over halfway.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Wow. Maybe someone out there, if you've read this or
listened to it, that's pretty cool. Let us know. Oh good,
contact at Chicago ghost podcast dot com.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
I can't believe you remember.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Great there. Yeah, but no, that sounds that sounds awesome. Yes,
there's a whole new take on has JK.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Rowling said, I don't I haven't looked into it, and
that that, and it sounds I'm not saying it sounds
like jk roll because it sounds like an older Harry
Potter honestly and said, but like also, it does have
whiffs of that. It it feels like in another book
in some ways.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. Cool.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Think I think this person is who's usually name was
Sarah something, did a really good job with this fanfic.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
That's great. There you go, listeners, And.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
No, there's not a dirty book either. It's totally normal
Harry Potter book.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Oh no, not again.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
It's called oh god, not again, Oh.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
God, not again. There you go, listeners, check it out. Yes,
I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
I'm so enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Great. Let's so all right, So you don't know what
we're talking about tonight, you have no clue.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Oh no, I haven't.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
I told you absolutely jack shit about this one. I figured,
you know, the last three episodes have been all serial killery.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, a lot of ours are.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, this time I wanted to go whimsical. Is we're
going whimsical?

Speaker 2 (08:25):
So maybe, like the whimsy of Harry Potter is a
connective tissue here.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
No correlation I could even think of it all. But
they're both I mean whimsical.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Right, That's what I meant.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Let's take a break. We'll be right to it. Listeners,

(09:06):
welcome back to the show.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
I've never heard of Sandman.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Just jumped the gun because I didn't do the lights
are turned down low, Cerreophon, fuck it, Oscar.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
I just wanted to because we started, Oscar.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Have you ever seen Oh, we're gonna go with it.
Then we're going, Okay, it's late. Have you ever seen
what the Netflix series that came out a few years
ago called The Sandman?

Speaker 2 (09:38):
H Yeah, I think I have seen that.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, it's it's that show. It's the main character is
called dream or Lord Morpheus, who's basically the personification of
humanity's dreams, and he has this power to kind of
hop in and out of dreams and even control them. Yeah, right,
really good show. Yeah, I'm a fan.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
I think I know briann O Tarth. Isn't it places?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
You're right? That's right for Game of Thrones fans. Really
good show. I think aren't they coming out with a
season two soon? I hope so?

Speaker 2 (10:07):
I think it's on the I hope so. And the
serial killer guy with all the.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Good show, So we got this idea of someone who
could enter dreams, control humanity's dreams. Right, what about Have
you seen the Nick Cage movie called dream Scenario? I
love that movie. Yeah, so, Katie and I watched it.
It was fun. We had a good time with it.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Some cringey ass moments. So do you think that that
scene with the with the girl in the apartment.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Oh, cringey as far as making you uncomfortable? Yes, yeah,
not cringely bad?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Oh, I see it's so bad.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
He's about the cheat on his wife too, that's also bad.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
But yes, so we watched it great. It's and actually
dream Scenario even makes a brief reference to this thing,
this entity this being that we're going to talk about tonight.
But basically, in the dream Scenario, Nicholas Cage, who I love,
plays this mild manner, dorky biology teacher named Paul Matthews, right,

(11:10):
whose life is turned upside down. He kind of has
this mundane, boring life. Life is turned upside down when
suddenly millions of people all over the world starts seeing
them in their dreams. And Paul Matthews, he takes on
these different roles in people's dreams, from benevolent to violent
to sexy, just like you were saying when he was

(11:32):
with that girl cheat on his wife, that was a dream.
And just like with Lord Morpheus in the Sandman series,
dream Scenario is based around this really cool idea of
the dream surfer, a sentient being that possesses the power
to enter, move around, and effect, move around in and
affect people's dreams. And it's this fascinating idea of a

(11:56):
dream surfer that gave me the idea for this episode
because there just might be a real dream surfer out
there right now, and he's known simply as this man,
this man, this man.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Oh, I know what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Do you know what this is?

Speaker 2 (12:16):
I think so. I mean, I don't know the details,
so I definitely want to hear more. Okay, but I
think I know what you're doing, all right.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Okay, Now, over the last decade or so, maybe you've
seen memes about this man, because for a long time
he was everywhere. It's this sketch of this very strange
looking man with black hair, black eyes, a receding hairline,
these huge, bushy eyebrows, and razor thin lips turned up

(12:47):
in this creepy little smile, with the words have you
seen this man? Or ever dream this man? Written across
the top. It looks almost like a wanted poster you'd
find state do a telephone pole or tacked up at
your local police station or post office or milk carton
or milk carton. Now listeners go to the show notes

(13:09):
to see what I'm talking about, because if you're not familiar,
you gotta check this this thing out. It's an image
that really resonates with people in strange ways. It's clearly
a human face, yet at the same time it's not,
And it's this slightly off kilter image of something that's
supposed to be human, but at the same time isn't

(13:31):
is what gives us this very uncomfortable feeling. Something called
uncanny valley. Now uncanny valley, it's a real psychological concept
that describes the feeling of unease or even revulsion we
humans experience when we see or interact with something that

(13:52):
is almost but not quite human. It's you see this
concept a lot when it comes to AI and the
AI robot scientists are developing ones that could almost perfectly
mimic human expression and human speech, but no matter how
hard scientists try, the result is never exactly human looking

(14:14):
or exactly human sounding, which really fucks with people. It's
like we have this deep rooted, subconscious revulsion to things
that try to mimic us humans. We instinctively don't trust
it and feel little empathy towards it. Pretty interesting stuff,
this uncanny valley. And I think uncanny valley also applies

(14:35):
to the sketch of this man. For whatever reason, deep down,
he just gives people the creeps.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
I just saw the photo, So now that you see
that being a little creepy, especially if I just woke
up and I see it, I might be.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Like, it's in your dream. You just remember it from
your dream or something.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah, that could be a little right, A little bit
like that. We did a show on this one internet,
a horror thing on YouTube with it was scrying kids. Uh,
I forget, I forget what it was you did here? Yeah? Yeah,
oh momo, yeah that momoye.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I remember that episode, the thank you I knew you
knew it.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
So when you saw this man's photo, do you remember?
Is that what you thought we were talking about?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yes, but so what little I knew about it? I
hadn't actually seen a photo, So the wanted poster is
a little new to me. But I know this phenomenon, okay,
So like that's what I just heard about it. It's
not like again, I didn't read a book round or anything.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Got it? Okay? And how does it? So it is
a little creepy to you?

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, I mean the photo itself, like by itself, Yes,
it's a little creepy. It does it both equal parts?
Seems computer generated or made up? And also it could
be a real person. Sorry I'm sorry, a pitiable person
maybe because I'm sorry you looked that way. But uh yeah,
but yes, you know also both I feel like a
little bit of both. And you were saying about the

(16:00):
Uncanny Valley aspect of little empathy and all that right too,
not real things right that are made to look like
something else. I feel like animals get through. There's a
lot too, like an equal footing. When you show them
a realistic looking but completely fake dog next to your dog,
they almost always get freak out. They almost always react.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
They don't like it. No, I don't like it.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
When you wear that cat mask and a humans walking
around wearing it, they get freaked out. You see videos
of them for funny and they freak out because they
understand it's wrong, like on a nature level. It's like
a nature level wrong. It's not just us. There's no
logic to it.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
I'm going to research that. That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
It feels like there's no logic to it. It's just
it's just saying it's like just nature. We've seen like
we're trying to fight nature in this case.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, we've seen here with our cats. If there was
a stuffed animal of a cat, they attack it. They
don't like it, they avoid it.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Really you know, Yeah, that sounds right. Damn, that's true
with all of them. There's some weird cas I'm sure,
but like in general, when you wear something semi realistic
looking like that.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
It fixed them out crazy and so this is the thing.
This is some deep rooted shit. Okay. So background and
any information on this man, it's pretty vague. A lot
of stories like this tend to have vague backgrounds, don't they. Well, yeah, Now,
in the case of this man, it's said that in
two thousand and six, a quote well known psychiatrist in

(17:33):
New York sketched the now infamous face based on a
description provided by one of his patients, with the patient
saying that this thing was haunting his dreams and that
the man in the sketch didn't even closely resemble anyone
the patient knew in the real world. Now, as the
story goes, this well known psychiatrist, who's never named by

(17:57):
the way, left his sketchbook open eyes his desk, and
a few days later, another patient sees the sketch of
this man and immediately freaks out, saying that he too
had been seeing the same man in his dreams uh huh,
and realizing that something strange was going on, the psychiatrist
passes his sketch to some of his colleagues, and sure enough,

(18:20):
many of their patients were also encountering this man in
their dreams too.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Is it like a visual infection? Interests, like a visual virus.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
That's that I have a theory later because.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
You know, because virus isn't bacteria that exist in so
many different levels from coughing, even noise can have a
sort of effect on you. Tonight is and stuff like that.
Sure frequencies we know that for sure has proven. Can
you do that visually? I wonder if that's what this is.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
I bet you could. I think you could.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Well, I have one tonight, interesting or tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Let us know if you do for sure.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
I'm curious, but I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
I don't want well, there are two listeners. You know,
if you look at the photo in.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
My Daily Waking life is not marsh enough.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Just ruined your own life with his story, right? If
you know, listeners see the photos in the show notes,
and something happens with you, you dream it or encounter it,
let us know, let us know, contact us.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, okay, continue to say so again.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
The idea of this man is that he's some sort
of a dream surfer, someone or some thing that can
enter our dreams at will. And although thousands of people
from all over the world claim to encountered this man
in their dreams. To this day, no one's been able
to identify him in the real world as an actual
flesh and blood person. And possibly even more strange is

(19:39):
that descriptions of encounters with this man are all over
the place, kind of like Nicholas Cage's character in Dream Scenario.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Well, it should be sad that in that Dream Scenario film,
one hundred percent of all the encounters in people's people
he had in dreams with at first were just him
watching them, like him, not involved.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
It was just that then it progressed.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Like no matter that the person was having a dream,
whatever that dream was, he was there just watching, even
casually observing, but not doing anything his nuttil later in
the movie spoiler that he becomes violent.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Got it. Okay, So this kind of, I guess is
similar because in the background a lot of people's dreams,
he's a background character, just like Paul Matthews Nicholas Cage
you just mentioned, kind of just standing there watching the
dreamer with those black eyes and that strange smile. But
then in other people's dreams they claim he's been sexual

(20:35):
with them. In other instances, he provides the dreamer with
cryptic advice. For example, a lot of stories say this
man instructs the dreamer to simply go north, while in
other dreams this man is violent, reportedly chasing down and
murdering people. And if you look at the sketch and
the image that this thing, and imagine this thing chasing

(20:57):
you down and overtaking you, dude. Yeah. Most accounts say
this man rarely speaks, except for the whole go north thing,
but when he does speak, no one can remember what
his voice sounds like, or even if he verbally speaks
at all. Some say he communicates telepathically. Now, of course,

(21:19):
people have been desperately trying to understand this man's intentions
and to understand why he behaves so differently encounter to encounter,
from benign to murderous. All we know is what he
looks like, and that thousands of people from all over
the world experience him in different, sometimes downright terrifying ways
when they dream. Where he comes from and what he

(21:42):
wants is anyone's guess. Of course, there's a lot of
theories about who or what this man is. One theory
is that this man is God. If you take it
that way, yes God, Yes, if you take the idea

(22:03):
that God is supposed to be the reflection of all
humankind and vice versa. And if you cut the sketch
of this man into four parts top, bottom, left, right,
like I've done for you guys in the show notes,
suddenly this man is many men or all men. If

(22:24):
you look at this man from the nose up, he's
clearly an old man. Look at the nose down, and
he's a young man. And if you separate the left
side of his face from the right side, he looks
like two completely different people. It really is like this
man is every man all rolled into one. Check the

(22:45):
show notes to see what I'm talking about. It's freaky.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
It's not wrong, it's kind of freaky. Yeah, I'm looking
at it. I'm doing it right now, dividing with my hand.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
You see that high line. So that's God, that's every man,
the reflection of God. Man is the reflection of God.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Right huh.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Of course that doesn't explain this man killing people or
having sex with them in their dreams. But it's a theory. Now,
another theory, and I really like this one, is that
this man is actually an archetype found in what Swiss
psychiatrist and psychoanalyst Carl Jung called the collective unconscious now

(23:22):
very briefly, According to Jung, the collective unconscious is a
part of our human psyche that contains information inherited from
our ancestors and shared by all humans. Jung believed that
experiences of a common past have made deep, permanent impressions
on the human mind, and that the collective unconscious contained archetypes,

(23:47):
these universal symbols or themes that are present in the
mythology and folklore of all cultures all over the globe.
Some examples of common archetypes found in the collector of
unconscious are the mother figure, seen as virginal and pure,
mothering and supportive, yet seductive, unpredictable, mysterious, and cruel. There's

(24:13):
the wise old man archetype, which symbolizes someone that possesses
great wisdom, knowledge and judgment. There's the water archetype, symbolizing life, cleansing, mystery,
and even death. And the tree of life archetype represents
the source of life, the cycle of life, harmony, balance.

(24:35):
Then there's the shadow archetype and the trickster archetype. Now,
the shadow archetype consists of our behavior, traits, that we
see as negative, and we tend to hide these shadow
archetypes from others because it's our source of stress and shame.
Our repressed ideas, weaknesses, wants, sexual desires, animal instincts, and

(24:59):
are perceived these are all found in the shadow archetype. Now,
the trickster archetype represents the irrational, chaotic, and unpredictable side
of our thoughts and behavior, as well as humanity's duality
are the fact that we're capable of greatness and evil,
of being virtuous and deceitful, of being able to love

(25:20):
and hate. So the theory is that this man is
actually a subconscious archetype personified likely the shadow or the trickster,
or a combination of the two. And I really like
this theory, the idea that there's something we're experiencing on
a subconscious level in our waking lives. Some problem or
issue is personified in our dreams as this man to

(25:44):
kind of help us deal with our issues. But at
the same time, uncanny Valley makes us weary and even
afraid of this man, so we're never able to fully
reconcile whatever's bothering us, like our subconscious is fighting itself
I think this is kind of really interesting theory and concept.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
That is cool. It does remind me of something else
that will require and another animal example.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (26:10):
But I think attracts a little bit. Have you ever
given or shown a pickle to a cat?

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Not a pickle? But I think we've done because we
see if theyternet cucumbers, same thing. They hate them.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
They hate them, you know why?

Speaker 1 (26:26):
No, they think there are snakes subconscious.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
So animals have this. Birds, for example, they grow up
when they leave the nest. They don't get instructions on
how to build a nest. They just know how to
do it from generations of birds. There you go, right,
you can use that same if I use that same
logic with humans. And obviously we're more much more complex
in many ways and self aware, not to mention, I
think that this could serve as a way that's collective unconsciousness.

(26:52):
It could be like genetic information passed down unbeknownst to
us in ways that we maybe don't understand. For example,
like the human eye. I read this somewhere. The human
eye can see more shades of green than any other
color because we evolved from primates and in the jungle
we had to discern those differences. We still have that
from so long ago. We still have that ability. It's

(27:14):
not like that's went away. It's not like we see
more red now, No, we see green the most. And
I think with that same logic you can apply it
to this man being well, what is it? That narrative
like answering that question is where you can go anywhere
to what you said, which could explain a lot of

(27:36):
where deitious lord, legend, folklore, especially if not religion, can
come from from whatever this person used to be, if
it was a person, right, you know, it's like that,
and that makes it feel like more very interesting, fucking weird. Yeah,

(27:56):
that could be cool. Right, So I like it. I
connecting that.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
You're right, it does track. That's very interesting. This was
This was a fun one. Yeah, researching. Okay, good, good, good.
So you're into it so far? Yes, okay, Now how
about something called the dream imitation theory. Now, while I
like the theory about archetypes and the shadow and the trickster,
I think something called the dream imitation theory makes the

(28:21):
most sense when trying to describe what this man is. Now.
This theory is really simple. The dream imitation theory says
that people only dream about this man after hearing about
him and seeing his picture. That seeing his picture and
hearing his story leaves an imprint in people's subconscious, probably
due to uncanny Valley, and that image is then expressed

(28:43):
in dreams. I'm sure we've all had this happen one
time or another, where maybe we see something on TV
right before we fall asleep and bam, it's in our
dream that night. Right, to me, this theory makes the
most sense, kind of like the virus or what you
were saying earlier, I get a dream this tonight right
because we talked about it same thing here. I think

(29:03):
that makes the most sense.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Also, I feel like maybe what goes in hand in
hand with that that could support this theory is that
maybe because of the simplicity and yet uniqueness of the sketch,
that upon hearing the story, maybe not so much the story,
but watching or looking at the picture, it is it
makes a veritable imprint into your mind more than any

(29:27):
other random thing like the poster behind your head, or
your bottles or booze on that wall, because it isn't familiar,
right right, and it it imprints it fatter. It makes
it easier for people to recollect it in a dream
the day after, the night the night of, or a
week later, and therefore report it or talk about it,

(29:49):
and it becomes like snowballs itself and two lore that
we're here today.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Interesting talking about it. Yeah, yeah, maybe who knows? No,
you're good, that's right now. Over the years, of course,
people have searched our world, the real world, for inspiration
behind this man, like the actual flush and flesh and
blood person that inspired this man. As it turns out,

(30:19):
there are people out there who just might be the
inspiration behind this man, and actually quite a few, and
I've chosen four four people who this might be. Again,
check the show notes, because I've created images comparing this
man to each of the people we're going to talk about.
Actually it's three people and an object. You'll see what

(30:39):
I mean. Anyway, check out the photos. All right, So
the first one Carl Sagan. Okay, Carl Sagan. One possible
culprit is world famous astronomer, astrophysicist, and science communicator, the
late doctor Carl Sagan. Now, in case you don't know,
at one point, doctor Sagan was the most well known

(31:02):
scientist in the country, if not the world before Neil
deGrasse Tyson.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yeah, he Keep Your Herd Out one of those books.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, I did too, I did too, And he's
probably Sagan is probably most famous for his research and
the possibility of extraterrestrial life and for a thirteen part
television series he did in the eighties called Cosmos a
Personal Voyage, which has been viewed by almost half a
billion people worldwide. Just massive reach. Actually, there's so much

(31:34):
to talk about regarding Sagan's work and his contributions to
science and the search for aliens that we just don't
have time to even put a dent. But unfortunately, it's
Sagan's eyebrows, his receding hairline, and big forehead that make
him this man suspect. And when you put the two
side by side, you can really see a resemblance. And

(31:58):
what I really like about the car Sagan is this
man theory is that doctor Sagan was so whimsical, his
theories so out there, and his contributions to the search
for et life were so vast. Wouldn't it just be
perfect if he somehow lived on as this man.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
Also could be perfect that an alien would choosing I'm
like amalgamation of the human that's closest to understanding or
looking for them to like imparent their nature unto us,
because it's so weird an alien exactly.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
The other thing that the whole alien aspect with Sagan
think of him. Not that he necessarily talked about men
in black, but a lot of encounters people have with
men in black. Supposedly, you know, they're like, they look
like the man, the man, but something was just off,
maybe very uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
They just didn't act the same way we would act.
They didn't dress the same way we would dress. Their
facial expressions didn't match how ours what ours would do?
You know, That's what it reminds me. I just go.
Here's another possible suspect. Rich and famous for his work
on the Broadway plays Cats, Jesus Christ, superstar Avedra Joseph,

(33:11):
an amazing technicolor dream coat fan of the opera in
School of Rock. Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber is also famous
for possibly being the inspiration behind this man. Really now,
I'm sorry, but Sir Andrew Lloyd Rubber is a really
odd looking dude. Just go to the show notes with

(33:32):
his weird lips, bushy eyebrows, high forehead more like a
five head, and his receding hairline. When I put his
photo next to the sketch of this man, the resemblance
literally gave me the chills. Check the show notes you'll
see what I mean. I do not want to have
a dream starring Sir Andrew Lloyd rubber running and hunting

(33:54):
me down. No, thank you, very scary.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Well, you're an active dreamer, you can play back, no problem.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
I am a lucid dreamer. Lucid I could I could
control it, to wake up from it on my command.
If I don't like the way it's going, I could
say I can do that sometimes change it. Yep, yep,
that's always I've always been. Yeah. Now, next we have
Michael J. Anderson. Do you know what that is? No,

(34:22):
it sounds though, okay, who's best known for his role
as the Man from Another Place in David Lynch's awesome
television series Twin Peaks and from the movie Twin Peaks
Fire Walk with Me.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I mean, I've seen all that's one of my favorite shows.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Both from the early nineties. Right, Yeah, loved it. The
Man from Another Place is that tiny character that lived
in the Black Lodge. He dressed in the red suit.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's yes, and from another.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Places and who very creepily words out of all these
people so far him, I can immediately envision check as
he talks backwards. Yes, well forward, but it's like we
recorded backwards and said forward. It's like one of those
weird effects.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
The actor isn't talking backwards.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, he does talk backwards in reality, but then they
play that forward and that's why it sounds so weird.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
That's how they did it.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, it's like some weird trick where they it's either
said backwards and played forward, which I don't think so,
I think it's said backwards and played words or whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
I just remember he was like, yeah, that's why I
was like, I would get the goosebumps every time he talked.
That's Michael Anderson. So if I guess, if you know,
you know right kids, ask your parents right now. Michael Anderson.
He was born with a genetic disorder called osteogenesis imperfecta,

(35:41):
a disease that leads to frequent breaks and long bones
and improper healing, which ultimately left Michael with the shortened
stature of only three feet seven inches three feet seven inches.
His short stature and misshapen head lent a heavy creep
factor to his Twin Peaks character, and if you compare

(36:02):
his photo to the sketch of this man, there is
a resemblance. And Michael J. Anderson is often credited as
being the inspiration behind this man.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
And he's obviously super famous among a lot of things.
He's done a lot of movies, especially with David Lynch,
but arguably his most famous thing is that he appears
in in an FBI agent's dream. Oh twin p I'm
saying he's famous for appearing in dreams. You know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Good point. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't write you just describe.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
That scene while he's talking backward. That's the dream. That
agent was his name.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Oh god, he's gonna kill me.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Damn coffee fuck whatever, his famous whatever.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
No, great point, he's in the dream. So yeah, a
lot of people credit him with being So that's just
one more peg for Michael J. Anderson. Yeah, he appears
in people's dreams.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
Okay, finally, as far next to Robert England for appearance, Well.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
There's some Freddie esque to this to ask, you know,
not he's violent, but the final one, It's not a human.
I like it because it plays heavily with this idea
of uncanny uncanny Valley, where we as humans are again
subconsciously programmed to be leery of things that are made
to look human. And what better example than an old

(37:17):
school ventriloquist dummy. Oh now, This particular dummy was featured
in two Twilight Zone episodes, one titled The Dummy from
nineteen sixty two, where the dummy was named Willie, and
another episode called Caesar in Me from nineteen sixty four,
where the dummy was named well, Caesar. Now, even though

(37:39):
both episodes have different plots, there is a common thread
of the dummy having free will, and in both episodes
it torments and manipulates the ventriloquist in different frightening ways.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Oh so it's a bitch, it's an asshole.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yes, now, I rewatched both of these episodes before I
scripted this episode, and they're they're awesome. They're so good
for their time. I I mean no other you can't incomparable.
Rod Serling fantastic, Highly recommend both episodes. Check them out anyway.
If you look at the image I left from the
show notes, there are a lot of similarities between this

(38:14):
man and the Twilight Zone Dummy, and you add that creepy,
uncanny Valley factor, and considering this dummy is famous and
it's old, it predates the games of this man, I
think this very well could be the real inspiration behind
this Man. Listeners, check the show notes. Let us know
what you think. Contact at Chicago Ghost podcast dot com.

(38:38):
And just so you know, the dummy, the Twilight Zone
Dummy is alive and well and living in David Copperfield's
International Museum of Library of the Conjuring Arts in Las Vegas.
International Museum and Library of the Conjuring Arts in Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
The National Library of Pithy Titles dot com.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
So the dummy still exists now. Alas as intriguing as
the story is, this man might be nothing more than
a well orchestrated hoax. You see, in two thousand and eight,
an Italian sociologist and marketer named Andrea.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
You're like marker like? I heard that word in italics?

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Have it in italics right now? Marketer of his name
was Andrea Natella. He created a website called Thisman dot org.
And it's this website that gave us the story of
the unnamed, well known psychiatrist from New York and how
he created the famous sketch based off his patrons description

(39:48):
it's all on this website, and it's this website that
described how this man looks and how he acts. And
after this man went viral, Natella opened up and admitted
he made the whole thing up at a gorilla marketing
campaign to explore the power of the Internet's ability to
create and spread urban legends and collective myths.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
So like creepypasta stuff.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yes, Natella even admitted that the sketch of this man
was based off a photograph he had his own father
when his father was a young man. And for whatever reason,
just like with Creepy Pasta and slender Man, the image
of this man resonates with people on this deep level.
And from there, the Internet did what it does best.

(40:32):
It commandeered Natella's creation, pure fiction given a massive boost
by the Internet, nothing more, nothing less. Or maybe this
man really is a dream surfer and what happened with
Natella was reverse dream imitation theory. In other words, this
man entered Natella's dreams, which in turn inspired Natella to

(40:56):
create the website and the image and the story which
brought this man to the masses, and now he's everywhere.
He's real, and people all over the world are experiencing
him at their most vulnerable time while they're asleep. And
maybe this man is out there right now surfing Young's

(41:17):
collective unconscious, waiting for the next person to fall asleep.
All right, this man and that's this this is this is.
I like this one. I like this one. I like
the concept of a dream surfer. I like the concept
of this common theme that people have all over the

(41:37):
world at their most vulnerable time, and are experiencing this
common theme at their most vulnerable time while they're asleep.
I just love that idea.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
It is no, it is cool, it's nifty. It is
Freddy Krueger ask in some way. If anything, it's limiting
for Fredday Krueger. I feel like he's thinking too small.
These kids on Illmon Street.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
You go for it.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
You can expand yourself world. Why to fucking throw We
need some marketing. You need Nuttle over there to do
it for you. Yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Like, was his name Nutella? Right?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Yeah? No, it's it's cool. It reminds me also, well,
the other thing we talked about so far, which is
much closer to what I'm about to say, there is this.
I mean, the nine n Stream movies are dumb, but
they're really cool in concept and the way it can
be funny and horrifying, the way dreams can go crazy.
But one of those things is that in the sixth

(42:34):
movie I want to say, Uh, Freddy, is that there's
a whole aspect to it where there are these like
weird demons of a sorts that are like, they give
Freddy Krueger demons. Yes, they give created Freddy Krueger's powers.
And these demons could be very easily be personified to

(42:57):
be like that Netflix show Just Sandman. That could be
more Morpheus, or it could be the dream God or
you know, a night like It feels like it could
be an amalgamation of that, or one of his foot
soldiers gives Daku the power to antro dreams as a

(43:18):
gatekeeper of sorts. Now, the movie doesn't try to make
sense out of it. It's really dumb, but it's but
it's like another angle to something that we will never
I shouldn't say never, but never really understand because dreams
are so like infallible, like they're just they're there and
you can never grab them. It's like water trying to

(43:40):
grab water, you know. So like it's it's it's almost
like uh uh, it's proof that's evident proof or whatever,
tamper proof whatever, like you can't poke holds in it
because it doesn't exist. Like it's so it's so weird
and it makes it cool. That's my point. It makes
it cool. It makes it. It just makes it adds
a layer. And in that movie they were just doing

(44:01):
it to be fun. I remember he still though, Yeah,
my god, I remember those glasses, but it was still
an added layer. And I thought it was cool thinking
about not in sense of Freddy Kruger, but in just
other ways. And it was cool. I liked that. It
reminds me of Samman and this story.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
It's interesting and they could take on other shapes o
their forms.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah maybe, yeah right, I love it. So you like
I do good one.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
I hope listeners liked it. Yeah, it feels like it
was a shorter one.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
But that's okay. I'm okay with Oh yeah, no, I'm
okay with that too. I do something if you want,
we don't have to. I do not often, but I
occasionally viably dream. I don't have control on my dreams,
but I do dream. Almost every time I dream is
something very bizarre. By very bizarre, I just mean it's
rarely anything bland or boring at least the ones I remember.

(45:00):
And what I try to do is as soon as
I wake up, I do my very most to write
it down.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Do you remember we did this?

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah? We did this before we do this for Patreon?
Was it for Patreon?

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Where we we we kept dream journals? Oh?

Speaker 2 (45:12):
Really?

Speaker 1 (45:13):
And then we talked about it and we went into
depth about dreaming, and yes we did. And then we
at the very maybe we.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Could we do that show or something.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
I would love to do that again. That was a
lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I'm pretty sure
I still have those old ones.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
I still have it.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Oh you still have it's even better? Well, then, maybe
I shouldn't say I was going to offer a weird
dream that I had that has nothing to do with this. Oh,
I don't dream. I don't dream of a man yeah,
or anything man ride with the thin lips and ship. No,
I didn't dream that, But but I've had a weird ones. No,
I will save it. That's even better in case we

(45:48):
do a dream episode, because I write a lot like
this is a lot.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Oh well so it's a lot.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
So no, I'll save it. That's cool. Thank you reminding me.
I was gonna say, were talking about dreams, I could
offer a weird dream, but I could offer right next
we in a better, more thematic thing.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah, for that Patreon episode, it's been it's been a while.
It might have been during COVID or pre COVID. Anyway,
we journaled for about a week. I'd wake up and
just jot down whatever the hell, and it was some
weird STU it was. Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah, Yeah,
that was fun. We got in a different type of
dreams and interpretations of common themes and dreams.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I think, let see Raven wasn't that one.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
I think she was? Yeah? Yeah, okay, cool, So maybe
we should revisit that.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, that'd be fun.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Cool. Well, I'm glad you liked it, listeners, I hope
you liked it. If you have any feedback, contact at
Chicago Ghost podcast dot com ghost or call eight seven
to two five two nine zero seven six seven oscar
take us home.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Don't use that number, okay, are you spaghetti.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Sounds good? Does that mean? Yes? I found out food
and like it's like a It's literally like a drug
for me.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Food is like, oh, I say, as a coping thing
or something like that.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, I mean changing making these changes that I have
in my life, it affects you like I would imagine.
I've never withdrawn from drugs. I've never withdrawn from alcohol,
never been an addict, but I would imagine that's what
addicts go through with the wild mood swings, the anger,

(48:08):
the sadness, the manic happiness, the it's crazy. It's fucking food.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Yeah, I mean also is I mean sugar is a
huge one component and food for the addicting essence, especially processed.
If you can't imagine, I mean, I can't imagine.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
You'll have to ship we here is outlawed in other countries,
like you won't find it in Europe. You know, it's
been really hard. That's when you said like spaghetti, I'm
like fucking spaghetti. What I'm trying to think? Man?

Speaker 2 (48:43):
I also saw the have you ever heard of twin films?
Twin films is like a phenomenon that happens in Hollywood.
Doante's peak? Uh, there you go Doante's Peak volcano and
then Deep Impact Andaghetti. Yeah, those are the classic ones.
There's a new there's a this one that just came
out a few months ago. The first Omen and Immaculate.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Oh okay, first Omen. Loved it, loved it.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
It was fun.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Thought it was great.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
I thought it was fun. Yes, and it was a
great way, great twist on the prequel. It was that
kind of cool. So Immaculated very similar vibes. Both take
place in Italy or something both about a nun about
non being pregnant. Also her attractiveness or being attractive is
part of the thing, and it's about a weird convent
where they do shady shit. It's very similar vibes. They're

(49:28):
twin films for sure, and they came out within a
month of each other.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Because so I haven't seen that one.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah, I liked Immaculate, did you. I didn't love it,
but I love it.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
I heard the ending was lacking, wanting more sort of thing.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I feel like a lot of moves to that. I
don't know. I guess it didn't bother me.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it. Liked Domen. That's why
I heard about a maculate. So I didn't. I haven't
watched it, but maybe i'll check it out. I really
liked omen. Well, then we had The Pope Exorcist. Now
we got this other one with Russell Crowe.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Yeah, the Ectocism.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Yeah, so where everyone was like part two.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
No, it is not at all. It's about the making
of a movie that's like The Anciocist.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Is that what it's about.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Oh, yeah, it's about he's an actor playing like the
priest in the He's playing father Merrick Maren Maren Man.
He's playing like the father Marin type in a movie
that's like The Axiosist, but it's not the actio and
then that production gets haunted and he gets possessed. It's
kind of cool, but it has nothing to do with
the Popeist.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Got it? Well, they sure marketed to kind of look
that way. It did.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
I think they're fucking with us.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Okay, so that reminds Nicholas Cage Uh, Archurians, Centurions, oh Manchurians, No, No, Circadian.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Arcadian hated it. I didn't see it. I was I
almost saw it, and then you told me you didn't
like it. Oh, we did talk about that one no,
you're texted me like you sucked. That's all you told me.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
I don't know why it sucked, but I had such
high hopes. Man, it looked so good. He has a cage.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Of course, Yeah right, well, Okage, it's really up in
the air. It's flip a coin on him.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
How could an And that was my whole Nicholas Cage
horror film with these with creatures.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
I mean, not eveything's mandy.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
How could it be boring? It was fucking boring. And
what really made me wanted to see it. I was
reading an article it was like on dread Dread Central
or something, and it said that the director, the creator
whoever got the idea from the for the monsters off
of Goofy from Disney. Oh, and I'm like, I gotta
see this. So the first two times you see the monsters,

(51:31):
you're like, whoa, that's crazy. Never seen something like that before.
Then you're like, fucking stop already, it's enough. Yeah, if
you ever see it, you'll see what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
I've no idea. What about if I'm gonna say it, well.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
It's the so the monsters, their their face, their mouth.
You could if you think goofy. You could see it.
But their whole thing is like they open and close
their mouths really really fast, and it makes this like.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
So think of like we've seen that one Goofy skid,
the one goofy skit where he is he's in court
for for a first degree murder of murdering all these
children in the school bus and he's like, quash, I'll
do it again. I love blood, like in that voice
though that it's like an online YouTube sketch thing. It's
so hilarious, and the and the lawyer is like, you're

(52:19):
on there. My client's insane, clearly has no responsibility for
his actions, and please exonerate him. He's he's very sick,
and he's like, I'll do it again, don't let me out, Like,
oh my god, it's so funny because he's doing the
goofy voice and it's just it's blood on them still.
It's yeah, fucking great.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Not good. I really want to see long legs dying
to see language. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
I saw a trailer. I didn't spoil anything, thankfully. It's
just like a very ethereal, a very weird trailer. I
mean they're up in there. You just don't know it's
like Nicholas Cach movie, you just don't know what you're
going to get.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
I was.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
I saw The Bike Riders, and I hated that I
saw that trailer because it picked it a different movie
than it was.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
I'm like, wait, bike Writers, you mean with Jar.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, Austin Butler and Tom Hardy.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
And it wasn't good.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Oh I liked the movie. It wasn't great, though, I
feel like it has some problems. But it takes place
in Chicago. There's sixties, I mean, gives me a lot
of those those awesome vibes for sure. It just doesn't
lead anywhere that I thought it was going again one
because of the trailer, and trailer made it seemed like
those just like like the Good Fellows of Bike Riders,

(53:29):
but it's not. It's but it's not right, but it's
not and like it makes you want to watch Goodfellows,
but not necessarily The Bike Riders. Like I said, I
had some fun with it. I think you like it, maybe,
I mean, maybe you could love it. Maybe I'm seeing
it way off too, But I just remember feeling more
disappointed or equal parts disappointed as I thought it was cool.
So it was like a mixed back.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Hum, well that so I thought it was gonna be fantastic.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah, I mean I love that director. You did some
really good movies. Who was the directer, Nicholschaels something Nichols
for guys, Jeff Nichols. He did Midnight Special and he
saw that he did Take Shelter, some movie I showed you.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
With Michael Shannon.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yes, he has those prophetic dreams of the end.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yeah, he did that movie. I think I remember liking
that movie.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Yeah, I think you liked that. Yeah, that was on
the time I got.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Show it to Take Shelter. No.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
The first one Midnight Special that's with that's an old
Michael Shelter Michael Shannonson. It's about the kid who like
has like these alien powers and the government's trying to
go after him, but he's living in a in a cult,
like in a Christian cult that's like worshiping him and
trying to use him for but the governments after him.
Michael Shannon's the father trying to break him out of that.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
I swear, I know. I think you're seeing it because
we like Michael Shannon. So if a movie comes out
and watch it. Except the Iceman, I didn't really like
The Iceman, but I didn't love anither Arcadian. I really
want to see Talia saw the New m Night shamal
in one.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
I saw the Watchers.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Yeah, the Watchers. Yeah, she liked it.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah, it's fun. It's not like an actual horror movie.
I I would call it more of a mystery thriller.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
I'm good with that.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah, then you're good. Yeah, it's almost it's almost like
a movie good for kids too. It's very like it's
not trying to like show a lot, like all the
DA's are kind of off screen in the moment, like
they cut away, which is good, which is fine. Again,
it's more of a mystery. I like the mystery in
the end. I don't know if you'll find it ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
I liked it.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
It's supernatural, which is cool.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Great. Yeah, we were gonna go see that in the movie,
which we just never did. Fun. There's two Shyamalan movies, right.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
So that's not him, that's his daughter.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
That's what it was.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
That's she's a Nepple baby. She wrote and directed it,
and then her father M. Knight produced it and obviously
made it happen, which one the Watchers what we think.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I thought there were two Chamalan movies.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
So there is one that he's having this year. It's
not out yet, though.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
What's it called?

Speaker 2 (55:51):
I forget?

Speaker 1 (55:52):
I did too, but didn't we see a preview for it?

Speaker 2 (55:55):
I think I might have. I don't remember. I can
see the choir place one. Yeah, got this weekend?

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Of course? Oh does it?

Speaker 2 (56:01):
I think that's this week? I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
I really want to see Maxine. That's the one.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I really want to see. M A X s X Pearl. Yeah,
what's her name?

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Mia Goth that's it?

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Yeah, Yeah, i'd watch it.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
I really want to. It's you know, it's about the Nightstalker, right,
did not?

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:19):
It takes place in La during the Nice Talker and
the seventies eighty or whatever. And she's like, I mean,
it's all very whatever. It's not going to be based
on reality, but like that's what it looks like. The
news are in the trailer are talking about the nice
Talkers out there killing women, and she's out there at night,
you know, and a woman, So like it's gonna be
like I don't know, what's I don't know. I haven't
seen a preview for it, but it just looks cool,
looks stylistic, it looks eighties looks like Yeah, I want

(56:44):
to see that too, Yes, of course, I mean that's
gonna make so much money.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
We Keaton.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah, I saw Inside Out too? Also.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Uh, they Italian gave Italian whoever she went with, They
went yesterday or the day before. You see it. They
loved it. Yeah, it's great. I saw twice, did you really?

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Yes, I like the first one and if you watch it,
you'll be like, that's me really, like that's my lead
emotion right there.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Oh I got to see it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
We did a review on it and it just came
out yesterday and we spent like an hour talking about
that fucking movie.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Wow, all right, Yes, they loved it. They said it
was sad. Oh yeah, yeah, I'll definitely watch it. We
watched the first one. What else am I excited about? Series?
Let's talk about on Apple TV. There's a Jake Jillenhall roadhouse.
I saw that.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
It's on Prime.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
You know what. It was fun? It was fun?

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Well, like, yes, it was fun. I had fun with it.
There's some kind of wacky direction with the punching and stuff,
like the first camera pe will be punching thing that
they did in the movie.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
That was kind of weird and wacky. I wouldn't say
that the action whiled me. Beyond that point, I kind
of wish it was better. Really, I thought it was great,
but no, no, but it was still fun. It was
like fun and I liked it.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
You know.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
I think it tried to be a little too gritty
when it didn't have to. But ultimately, I'm like, I
think the reason I don't love this movie the way
I liked the original is because just Patrick Series is
just much more charming than J. J.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Lehull.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Like, I found him way more convincing in a ridiculous
role like this then J. J. Leholl. Really yeah, I
think ultimately J. Hull is trying it is like he's
he's like two Emo, maybe more than Swaysey. Was interesting
because I was like, maybe it's the lead. I think
how I think? I like, I think it's just the
leading man. I'm like, I think I just prefer Swayzy
in it.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
You know well?

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I mean, of course that pushed us to go and
watch the first one again. Could it have been?

Speaker 2 (58:45):
I saw it too before I saw it like a
week before.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
It was great. Yeah, Don Henley? Is it Don Henley
the Blind? He just died? No, he didn't just die,
he died a while ago. The band. Oh yes, yes, yes,
I used to listen to his music. It's Done Henley,
I think. So, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
I'm bad with me.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
It's fantastic. It's just so eighties. It's so great. So
we had fun with it. I fucking hate Connor McGregor.
I hate he is Who was that? Connor McGregor was
the main villain in in the New One? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Oh the UFC fighters. So I heard Bob told me
that he's an actual fighter. Oh yeah, And I didn't
know that because I don't know about that's huge. I
didn't know anything about him. It was my first time
watching him.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Yep, he's garbage. He was wacky in that movie, crazy
the way he wants it.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Yeah, so what do you hate him? He's crazy?

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Why?

Speaker 2 (59:34):
He's just a pukey.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
He's just a puke. So I like that. But Jake Jonhall,
there's this series called Presumed Innocent, and that's the TV.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
It's really I get a lot of trailers for that.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
It's good.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
I just don't know if I'm ready for that kind
of mystery right now. I saw a trailers that looks
like one of those kinds of movie shows on my own.
I don't know if I want something he does. You
know what else is Chakawa that I really love? That's
also on Apple TV. I saw Dark Matter Matter.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
What I stopped?

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Where did you stop?

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Third episode? I'm like, I can't do this anymore? Why not?
If I hear this one more time, I'm gonna fucking
shoot myself.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
The Lifelick it's like three times an episode is not
that much to its not that much?

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Oh my, I don't like it. We tried, I really tried.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
It gets so much better if you can get to
the last two episodes, it goes fucking bonkers. Really yeah,
it does.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
But you know, maybe maybe it's been because we tried.
We did try.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
It's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I want to be the Bolg now because there's may
it's based by an author that I read one of
his other books with Kerchon, which is badass.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
I remember, like, oh I've heard of that author or something.
This is this is uh?

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
He actually like wrote and directed the show a lot too,
so he's like his first time involved in it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Okay, all right, So maybe maybe we'll give it a
try at some point, but I just couldn't take it anymore.
It's very hard.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
I definitely don't take drugs at all, and this is
like acid or something, oh, coke sometimes?

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Ah?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Okay, waity spaghetti.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Yeah. One hundred and fifty five, one fifty five. What
did you say last episode? Right? This is one fifty five?

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Yeah? Did you say something else before?

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Okay, Then I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Wrote one fifty four because I didn't know when I
wrote this, I didn't know I was going to have
an update episode.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Oh I see, Oh I see.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
So it's one forty five.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Okay, is no difference?

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
No, no, but we just did one for the four yes, okay,
So I'm gonna say one

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Five, yes, yes, all right, let's do this and five four,
three two