Episode 165: The Dark Triad - The Psychological Blueprint of Power, Deception, and Evil - Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to my world, bitch, wow, good car.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Here.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Welcome to the one hundred and sixty fifth episode of
the Supernatural Occurrent Studies podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
So Boisterously Paranormal.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and
with me as always is Oscar Specter, producer Extraordinary and
podcast co host Oscar. What has been going on with you,
my friend, since our last podcast released?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I don't know. I think you should go first.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Serial Killer update. I got nothing. That's why I passed
it off to you.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
I know you did. I know you have nothing. That's
why I passed it on to you. Because I'm an asshole.
I would say I have two little fun things. One
is that I mean you were kind of part of
the other one. One of them is that the Academy
Wars just happened last weekend as of this recording.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
That's right, that's a big deal for you.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Not no, No, I mean I watch it every year.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yes, but for your other show and podcast and this.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, and in general, yes, in general, since I do
invest a lot of time watching these movies throughout the year.
So yes, a little bit. I know I used to
give a shit more. You know, It's not like I
gave as it anymore about who wins it loses. I
just watched her for fun and you know, enjoyed.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
But that said, I had it at it was an
event this time. Instead of having an oscar party, which
I've hosted before in my house or apartment, I went
to a bar. Was specially like hosting the things. Okay,
it was on the second floor of the Budweiser brick
house tavern, I think it's the name of it, over

(02:09):
by Wrigleyville on Wrigleyville. Basically it's right next to it
the nactual stadium if you know that area, Cubs park. Yeah, yeah,
right there, it's right there. It's on the same grounds,
on the same block of that.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
I can't picture it.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, it might be a renovation that maybe wasn't there before,
because I don't remember that when I went to high school.
But I also even though I lived like five minutes
away from Migleyville, I don't actually go to the Cubs
games anymore.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
So, No, it's horrible down there. Yeah yeah, you're right
on the s Addison and Clark.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
But I just don't care, you know, So, so what
was it? It's all sports parts there. I just don't
give a shit.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, yeah, but what what was it like?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
So I made a reservation. I saw a tech talk
that was announcing it, and I signed up that day.
I'm like, oh, I'll make a reservation. I did it
initially for two I had other runs wanting to come,
you know, like, oh, I'll try to change my reservation.
It wouldn't let me, so, like, oh shit, maybe it's
packed or whatever. So I only went on with my brother,
who is a co host on the other show. And

(03:07):
when we went there, a lot of seats were empty.
It was ridiculous. We could have told invited everybody. So
but I think we spent the most money, though. I
must have drank like seven, like four let me see.
I think it was like four old fashions. Yeah, and
three espresso martinis. Oh jeez, that's all I drank.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Wow, how are you feeling empty?

Speaker 1 (03:29):
End?

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Surprisingly Okay, I must have phrased myself much better than
I thought, because I didn't have a headache or anything.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Or there are porn lights one or two.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
You're right, the espresso martini was normal, I would say,
as strong as probably what I imagined. The old fashion though
they did it did seem a little sweeter and later
than it should have been, so you are right about that.
But still though I drank a ship ton of them.
But it was the deals that they had. And when
joed the Oscar party, we dorew ballots in and they
announced the winner at the end. For the people there,

(03:59):
I didn't and bet we had a great time watching
the show. I had a DJA too, and to cut
the commercials away with it was like that kind of thing.
I was so surprised. My favorite part about it, other
than the ceremony, is that we were sat next to
these three younger girls, like twenty somethings, like college age,
and they were possibly enjoying the Oscars more than I was.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Is it possible.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
They were like screaming out a Noura and the Sauceton.
You know, they was screaming like I want you know.
It was like like wow, and I was telling you
to rock, like I'm so happy suddenly for this generation,
there's some hope in here because you know, kids little shit.
But these girls knew the movie. They had real opinions
on a lot of little picks and winners, like oh
that's great, that's great. It's good to see that.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
So Were you happy with the results overall?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, noura I love that movie.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Never seen it.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
It's good, it's good. I'll give you anxiety.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Was that the Best picture?

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Best that Best Picture, Director, Actor, Screenplay.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Who's the actor in it?

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Mikey Madison. That's her though Mikey sounds like a guy
named but it's a it's it's Leonora character in the movie.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Okay, i'll chock. Maybe I'll check it out.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, yeah, I've ever seen it once upon a time. No,
I would. Yes, one of the Charlie Manson acolytes, one
of the girls that gets killed at the end at
the house with the dog and stuffing.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Love that scene.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
One of them is Mikey medicine.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Oh wow, and now she just won.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, she just won the Best Academy Works.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Wow, that was cool, crazy man.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
So I did that with the bar, was fine and
all that, and made jokes also, mad I made jokes
with the waitress and she did not get Miking bat
that she thought was being serious. But over the course
of the night though, she came on my side, I think,
and she gave us three shots out of the blue.
So he ended up being okay. But like you know,
that was God, I gotta watch out because my humor
sometimes doesn't work with everyone other than that. But you

(05:46):
did an oscar thing too, right, So no, we just.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
We were We just happened to be out at a bar.
I mean, oh my buddies and got Oscars were on.
Oh so they Okay, so you can go out specifically
for that.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
It just happened to be got it. Did you watch
the whole thing though?

Speaker 3 (05:58):
I just went hard of it, just a little bits,
ands and pieces. We went to a bar in my
town where a TV show Bar Rescue with John Taffer.
It's a show we watched he had redone this bar
maybe six months before, so I'm like, oh, I want
to go check out this bar. That's it. That's what
found us out on that night, and so I watched

(06:19):
some of it.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
But yeah, yeah, got it Okay. I misunderstood that because
you're texting me. We were texting that night and you
said you were at in a bar watching the OUTRESO, Like, oh,
so I thought you were doing the same thing.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
I also had about seven old fashions, so I was.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
That sounds right? Feeling pretty pretty pretty warm?

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Pretty warm?

Speaker 3 (06:36):
Let me just as an aside down there by Beumunt
and Clark by Wrigleyville. Is the Covey Bear still there,
right on Addison and Clark.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
The bear is a statue Covey Bear, the.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Big huge bar right on the corner there.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Did you know I must be a I think so.
I don't think they're renovated since I used to go
there because I used to go there every weekend to
drink when I was in my twenties.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
When we were younger too.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Well like that was twenty years ago, and I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
My wife used to work there. And while she was
working at the Kubby Bear, that's where she met Bruce
Willis and his band.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Oh that's funny.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
John Goodman was there, said he was passed up. Oh shit,
John Goodman, or who's the one married de Roseanne tom Arnold?
One of those two were passed out fucking cold in
the alley.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
That's funny.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
And she wound up being Bruce Willis's merch girl for
the night.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
So I got a hat. She got me a hat
signed by Bruce Willis.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
That's cool.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
I mean, how many people can say they have something
signed by Bruce Willis? You know, I don't know I'm
assuming that that wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Hypolytic he used to be when he was bigger.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, you know, I'm into collecting autographs. Oh I know that.
I don't. I don't really see Bruce Willis out there.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Oh yeah, I guess you would know that world more. Yeah,
so that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I mean, I could be wrong, but I haven't run
into it.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
You know.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
I have one of the five Elements signed by him. No, yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
That's pretty cool. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Used to go to Covey Bear, specifically a lot. There
was this cover band there I couldnot remember the name.
I used to follow them when they bar hopped on
the weekends, and it's music and stuff. He was crazy cool.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, it used to be fun.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
What was the other thing?

Speaker 2 (08:03):
The thing is that I also the night before that,
I went to my first and a long time rave.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, as a as a forty one year old. But
I gotta say I wasn't the oldest, although I was
definitely one of the oldest.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well I mean well, first of all, was it in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Of course it was in I forget the towns. I'm sorry.
It was on Lincoln and something I don't remember, but yeah,
it wasn't too far from me. It was like ten
minutes ago.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, And I was planning to going there all night,
but I got real. I mean I did four hours
dancing Jesus and then I got really and then I
got like, okay, my feet hurt. Now we'll go home.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Now, time for as in bed.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, yeah, I need her. The next day, were you
on anything?

Speaker 3 (08:46):
No?

Speaker 2 (08:46):
No, no, no, I was not on. I drank a bit,
but I didn't drink that much either. I just wasn't
feeling bad. So but I did that and that was fun.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
I've wow, yeah, I haven't thought of that.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
And yeah, I mean I would say that. The last
time I did it, I was on X for sure.
But I was like, kids just say no, oh no,
I don't do it once. That's fine, No, kids just
say it once. Live a little.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Well. It's fun.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Although I really would like to try Molly one day,
but also I don't have to.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
It's fine as I'm ready to pop a bottle.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I'm telling kids. And there was a theme to it. It
was a hippy night themed. So I had these like sunglasses.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Wow, yeah, look at you party animal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
So I've led a lot of uh that era music
with a lot of technol though a lot of m versions.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
God, so yeah, we were gross. Hey you're not a fan.
It's fun not a fan. Usually by nine o'clock, I'm
ready for I'm on my chair sleeping.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
I know.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
So good for you, man, Yeah, good for you.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
I'm just enjoying my I'm just enjoying. I mean chance,
I got so. Yeah, that's that's what's been going on.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Awesome. Well, I'm glad you've been up to some shit.
I'm gonna live vicariously through you. I haven't been up
to anything.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Just work.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
That's just adulting.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean, I got that. I have to do
it too. I hate it, but I have to do it.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah. I do have a new bottle of whiskey. I
don't know if if that counts for anything.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, well I no it does, County. I really, I
really come here to drink. I really don't care about
the podcast. I got you covered all this, Yeah you do.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
This one is a Ben Holliday six year bottled and bond.
It's the soft red wheat. You might like this one
because in this whiskey's mash bill what makes up this whiskey?
They replaced the Rye with wheat, so there should be
like a softer, sweeter drink for you. But you know,

(10:48):
one of the things I really enjoy about whiskey and
bourbon is the story behind these bottles and the distilleries.
And so this one in particular, this goes back to
eighteen fifty six, the Holiday Distillery from Western Missouri. Eighteen
fifty six. It actually has it stamped on the bottle
here down at the bottom. I don't know if you
could see that.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, it was etched in there was it etched in
eighteen fifty six.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
Cool, that'd been really nice. So this distillery, since it's
from eighteen fifty six, it makes it both the oldest
distillery in the state of Missouri and the oldest distillery
west of the Mississippi still operating on its original site. Okay,
never moved. I mean that's where it was in eighteen
fifty six.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
That's where it still is today. They probably still have
the old machines there as like I'll bet you they
a lot of the distilleries.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, when I went to Kentucky, I saw lot.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
It's right, because you did the Bourbon tour. You did
the Bourbon tour. Yeah, now this Holiday distillery sits on
an active limestone spring, which was first chartered by Lewis
and Clark actually back in eighteen oh four. So I'm
sure that water from this limestone spring from eighteen oh
four when it was discovered, as you was in the
distilling process. Yeah, whiskey. So let's see, it's kind of cool.

(12:03):
It's it is you know.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Did you know that back in back when Lewis and
Clark were still around, they talked to their press, their
agents and they were like, oh, there should be appetized first.
So it's Clark and Lewis while they were alive. But
you know, history has a funny way of putting it
to Clark and saying who was in Clark?

Speaker 3 (12:24):
You know what? I didn't have that in my notes here.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, it was really weak, you know, little history factoid.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Okay, uh six sorry six years that Yeah, that that
spun me out of control. We've mentioned on the show
quite a few times I enjoy bottled in bond whiskey,
and we never really mentioned what the bottled and bond means.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, one of ther bottles that's fimiliar to one I
got that's also bottled in bond. I don't remember which
one here.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yeah, you gotta sift through all these bottle.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Something town something Town, Barberstown, Jonestown one, not john Bardstown, Barttown,
that's the one, I think.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, yeah, Bartstown right there. You see. No, it wasn't
that one, Bartsound, bardotstownt whatever. But anyway, so the Bottled
in Bond Act, this is important. I enjoy bottle and
Bond because I like the story behind it. This act
was established in eighteen ninety seven, and it was to
guarantee that what people were buying was actually whisky. It

(13:29):
wasn't like fucking bathtub shit, you know, stuff that would
make you go blind. So the government stepped in and said,
now there's rules. If you want to call it whiskey,
there's rules. So to be labeled bottled in Bond like
this bottle is whiskey, has to meet three criteria. Okay.

(13:49):
The first criteria, it's got to be the product of
a single distiller in a single season spring January to
June or fall July to seven. It has to be
aged a minimum of four years in a federally bonded
rick house where they store all the barrels on site
at the distillery. And it has to be bottled at

(14:12):
fifty percent or on a proof in the same location
that it was distilled, to be labeled bottle and bond.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Okay, do you get that?

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah? All right now the cool thing not only with
this holiday whiskey, not only is it bottled in bond,
but it's classified a real Missouri bourbon. And that's capital R,
capital M, capital B, a real Missouri bourbon under a
twenty nineteen law requiring that any whiskey labeled as Missouri

(14:43):
Bourbon must not only meet the federal standards of bottled
in bond, but also be mashed, fermented, distilled, aged, and
bottled in the state of Missouri, aged in oak barrels
manufactured in Missouri, and just beginning January one, twenty twenty,
it has to be made with corn exclusively grown in Missouri.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Now some of those.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Highly highly regulated for this this bottle.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
So it does seem like the height of ego though
a little bit these rules, right, I don't. I don't
because something doesn't matter where they come from its purity,
Like the oak barrel doesn't matter it's from Missouri or not. Right,
it doesn't actually matter. The corn probably not after that, sure,
I can see some of that. Sure, I get the
regionality of it, but overall not everything, right, I'm wondering.

(15:37):
It's like the label maker has to have been born
in Missouri.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
You need.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
That's such an a birth certificate that they you know.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
I'm wondering if barrels made from oak that was grown
in Missouri has different flavor profiles than oak that was
raised from trees and a made from trees raised in
a different state like Kentucky. I wonder if there's actually

(16:04):
a flavor difference between those two oaks. And I don't know,
but I'm wondering. I wonder just like the soil that
raised the corn specifically in Missouri, I'm sure gives it
a different taste, different makeup than corn grown in Kentucky,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Or just like the water coming out of this one
specific limestone spring, absolutely it's got to taste different then
if I turned my faucet on here, right, So it
makes it very unique, makes it different, just like Driftless
Glen is another whiskey brand from up northern Wisconsin. It's
in the Driftless region of Wisconsin where very specific glacial

(16:46):
activity happened.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
I grew up that water different flavors. I also grew
up thinking that bourbon was exclusive to Kentucky. The name.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
It's not that.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
But my point is that I thought it was exclusive
in the sense like it's a bourbon can only come
from there, and whiskey is everything else, you know, something
like that. I don't remember the exact way I heard it,
but I heard many times throughout my life that that's
the case. Have you heard of that? Yeah, okay, I
have with Cognac. Cognac comes from the small town of

(17:20):
Cognac in France. Technically, anything that is in Cognac it's
something else.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
I see.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
You mean technically I got in a technically way, not
like reality. But call it whatever you want. But yeah,
I mean, I'm not against it. It's a bourbon to me.
But yeah, that's what I heard. I don't know that.
Maybe you knew.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, I'm just checking this bottle here, yep, bourbon whiskey.
I don't know. Do you want to try it?

Speaker 2 (17:48):
I mean, yeah, please, that's when I know I'm here.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
I know this isn't a whiskey review podcast, but you're
so close to starting one, and I don't have any
news to speak of, so let's uh finally open this.
I've been dying to try this.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
A world dying. Oh, Dreida, that is not.

Speaker 3 (18:11):
A screw top.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
It is.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
It's a screwtop.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I know that I'm saying, draid head. You can tell
by the ribit what it smells good.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
It really does smell good. I'll give you this one.
But it's a screw top. I can't believe that.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
That's what they call me in college.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
Screw top.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
All right, there's yours.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Give that a smell, dude, Oh hey, right, hey, hey, okay,
I wain a smell. It's ten or of ten on
the smell or nine at east. It's not after shape
all too.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
Every bottle, every time there's a drip down the neck
of the bottle, I'll always take it and put it
on my face like I's funny.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
When I do that, I just lick it. I just
take more time, you know, it's one more in me.
All right, cheers, cheers, Think there we go.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
That smell is wonderful.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, it doesn't feel pretty.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
I smell apricot vanilla tasting corn for sure, real strong corn.
Oh you know what, remember my nosing kit from last episode?

Speaker 2 (19:27):
I do you know it's Missourian corn. You can tell
the wheat.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Wheat, wheat smartest here, check smell this, smell this wheat
and then take a sip. Mmm all day long? Oh god,
vanilla baking spice.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Maybe what's that spice they put in? Or it's similar
to what they put in that fire thing what they
call fire that whiskey that's got fire or something in
fireball fireball cinnamon maybe but not cinemon that. Maybe something
lighter than that, some version of that. Maybe I don't thinking.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
Like a baking spice, like an allspice here, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Coriander roy bus vanilla roy bus.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Maybe it's all spice.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Oh okay, yeah, that's more like it something.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
I am a big fan.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
I like it too. I have a fan.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
I'm gonna have more, all right, Ben Holliday, Soft red wheat,
bottled and bond listeners. Go out and catch it? Uh,
catch it? Get it?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah? Catch it like aids.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Fuck and on that note made it uncomfortable?

Speaker 2 (20:49):
How is that uncomfortable?

Speaker 3 (20:50):
Let's take a break.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Well, don't you know about anything anyway?

Speaker 3 (20:52):
Let's take a break. You nobody's right? Yeah you think so?

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Okay, I need to point you cut off from the show.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
There's no car off. Listeners, Welcome back to the show. Well,

(21:34):
the lights are turned down low, the ceremonial candle is lit,
and the drinks are flowing. Let's start this show. So
tonight we're taking you deep into the psychological blueprint of power, deception,

(21:55):
and evil. The Dark Triad, narcissis, Machiavelianism, and psychopathy, three
sinister traits that, when combined, create the ultimate manipulator. They
walk among us charming, ruthless, and completely devoid of remorse.

(22:18):
From leaders of industry to serial killers. Tonight, we're uncovering
the masterminds who have shaped history through lies, control, and
pure malevolence. How could you spot them before they pull
you into their web? Let's find out. Okay, Now, the

(22:39):
Dark Triad is a psychological framework that identifies three interrelated
yet distinct personality traits associated with manipulation, dominance, and lack
of empathy. Now those traits are narcissism or a person's
tendency for grandiosity, self obsession and entitlement.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
And mirror budget mirror budget, Yeah, you look yourself in
the mirror a lot?

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, a narcissist. The next trait of
the dark triad is Machiavelianism. That's a tough word to say.
I got fifteen pages of that word. Really, Machiavelianism. I
was contemplating. Is it Machiavelianism or is it Machavelianism. Is
definitely the former, Machiavelianism. It's ugly, well, Machiavelianism, or someone

(23:35):
that is cunning and an expert at the art of
deception and manipulation. And finally, there's psychopathy, a person that
displays an utter lack of remorse and is incredibly impulsive
and emotionally cold.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Do you know anyone like this?

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oscar? Yeah, I think myself.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Probably fuck and take your drink away.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Nope.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Now, well, h can't ge it enough. The concept of
the dark triad was first introduced by psychologists Delroy Palace
or Paulis. I'm gonna say, Paulis pa u l h
us Paulish.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
I go with that.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
Delroy Paulis and Kevin M. Williams in two thousand and
two in a paper they wrote called the Dark Triad
of Personality, Narcissism, Machiavelianism, and Psychopathy. Now Paulus and Williams
develop the dark triad model to better understand individuals who
exhibit socially destructive behaviors yet still function in society. So

(24:49):
they're fucked up, but they still function fairly normally in society.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
Unlike previous studies that primarily examined extreme cases such as
serial killer, this research aimed to explore how these traits
manifest in everyday life. They focused on their presence in workplaces,
in toxic leadership, corporate fraud and backstabbing colleagues, in relationships

(25:16):
where manipulative partners and emotional abusers exert control, and in
politics and power dynamics, where they highlighted figures like dictators
and corrupt officials. Through their research, Paulus and Williams discovered
that many with dark triad traits are not criminals, but
in fact highly successful people in politics, business, and entertainment. Now.

(25:43):
The dark triad is significant for three key reasons. First,
it helps identify dangerous individuals, including toxic leaders, manipulative partners,
and high functioning criminals before they cause harm. The second,
it plays a crucial role in criminal psychology, profiling and

(26:05):
forensic analysis, providing insight into serial killers or white collar criminals,
and political figures known for their manipulative behaviors. And lastly,
the dark triad offers valuable perspectives on workplace and leadership dynamics,
as research shows that many CEOs, and we've talked about
this before in the show, exhibit dark triad traits like psychopathy.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, I mentioned a surgeons have this, then cold detachment. Yeah,
they have none of that to do their job, which
kind of brings in this kind of like attitude the
god they have power over death.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Now there's anything wrong with surgeons, but.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
There's a lot of things wrong, fucked up. Yeah, yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, so these CEOs who exhibit these dark triad traits
often using ruthless strategies to climb those corporate ranks.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Man, right, It's like that, you know, there's a saying,
not a well known saying, by saying that I hear
every once in a while that feels right, even though
it probably isn't. Is that if you're a certain amount
of rich, let's say a billion, and it definitely a billion,
but let's say millions. You're a millionaire, you had to
fuck over somebody to get there. You know, it's like
that's I'm sure that's not one hundred percent right, but

(27:23):
it feels.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
Right, especially if it's generational wealth. Maybe not you, but
someone in that line from somebody over right, right, I'll
bet you that's a pretty solid.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Truism, right, It feels true anyway.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
Now, whether in business, entertainment, politics, or crime, the Dark
Triad fuels manipulation, ambition, and ruthlessness, often leaving destruction in
its wake. Those who score high in these traits excel
at deception, exploitation, and domination, operating without guilt while using

(28:00):
their charisma to conceal their true motives. They manipulate behind
closed doors orchestrating deception on a massive scale. But how
do these traits manifest in real world figures? Who are
the masterminds that embody all three dark Triad traits? And
most importantly, how can you protect yourself from them? How

(28:23):
do you stay out of their web?

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Biden?

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Now, before we get into the who of the dark Triad,
let's talk about the what. What's at the center of
these dark Triad traits? So let's start with narcissism, or
I call it the cult of self obsession. At the
heart of narcissism lies an insatiable hunger for admiration, status,

(28:48):
and power. Okay, narcissists believe they're superior to everyone around them.
They think they're entitled the special treatment and that they
should be immune to criticism. They build their ideas on
grandiosity and dominance, thriving on exaltation while crumbling under scrutiny.

(29:09):
High profile narcissists often climb the ranks of politics, business,
and entertainment, commanding attention through their larger than life personas.
Their charm and confidence seduce masses, But beneath that surface
lurks a fragile, tiny little ego, prone to tantrums when

(29:30):
their authority is questioned. While narcissists they seek glory and validation,
their lack of self awareness and tendency to blame others
make them dangerous in leadership roles. So some key narcissists
out there today in history, right, we got to talk

(29:51):
about ye oh Kanye Oh, this is fucking name yee.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Now, I don't know how do I think about him?
I only know one single of don't know much about it.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
The people out there right now being like nist oh, no,
I know.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
He has one bath on what little I hear about,
but I definitely have never thought about the guy.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah, he's a prick. He's nasshole now. Yee the rapper, producer,
and fashion designer known for his music, controversial statements, and
influential cultural impact.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
A girlfriend, what's that? And then girlfriend?

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Oh at the was it? Oscars?

Speaker 1 (30:26):
No, there was?

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Grammys or Emmy's one of those?

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Yeah, yeah, just a jerk off. He exhibits extreme self importance.
He and he often compares himself to historical greats like
Jesus and Picasso, while lashing out at anyone critical of them.
Yee exemplifies narcissism within the Dark triad through his grandiose

(30:50):
self image, constant need for admiration, and lack of accountability.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
He frequently proclaims himself a genius, right Picasso, Jesus, genius,
fuck you. His egocentric behavior, public outbursts, and disregard for
criticism highlight an inflated sense of superiority. Kanye's or Yee's
relentless self promotion, inability to accept fault, and tendency to

(31:16):
dominate all conversations and narratives reinforce classic narcissistic traits. Yeah,
prioritizing personal claim over collaboration or humility. Yeah, zero humility.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Here, right, Yeah, a lot of famous people in power
have that problem.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yes, Uh, do you know who Elizabeth Holmes is?

Speaker 2 (31:38):
That names sounds familiar, but no, not offhand.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
So there was a there was I think it was
a Netflix documentary about her. She so she's a narcissist
in the fact that she was a CEO at a
now defunct company called fair Nos. And I'm trying to
remember the series that was on TV because it was
fantastic a fuck anyway, Elizabeth Holmes's narcissism was evident in

(32:05):
the cult of personalities she built. She modeled herself after
Steve Jobs, even deepening her voice, and she wore these
black turtlenecks just like Steve Jobs. Really, all the while
refusing to admit failure, even as her company their nose
her technology was exposed as fraudulent. She projected this air

(32:27):
of invincibility and demanded unwavering loyalty from her employees. Again,
this cult that she built at their.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Nose, you know, as that sounds like the make the
made up company of Lumen in Severns. Oh, It's like
they have very similar except that they're successful.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
No, she crashed and burned hard. She manipulated the media
to sustain her image of genius.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
That's a terrible place of work.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah, even as their nose crumbled because it's fake. Blood
test technology led to misdiagnosed illnesses and false hope for
terminal patients. Elizabeth Holmes, All this time she maintained that
air of invincibility, prioritizing her legacy over the well being
of patients and investors, and in twenty twenty two she

(33:12):
was convicted of fraud and sentenced to eleven years in prison,
which made her case one of the most significant corporate
scandals in the twenty first century.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I think narcissist. Narcissist, I mean talk about delusion.
That's really what I think.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Of that, delusions of grandeur.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Right, I just think delusion all that's in general.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, as we both went to yeah, fuck, it's not
so good, Okay, I want to rub it all over.
So next, So that was narcissism. The next dark chaia
trait is machiavelianism. Nice Machiavelianism. Now, Machiavelians are strategic manipulated

(33:53):
who pursue who pursue power without regard for ethics. They
are experts at the art of deception. Named after Niccolo Machiavelli.
Niccolo Machiavelli, whose sixteenth century book The Prince outlined ruthless
political tactics. Machiavellians lie, they exploit, and they deceive to

(34:15):
achieve their goals. And unlike narcissists, they don't seek admiration.
Macavelians seek control.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, results, control very much.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
They orchestrate backroom deals, They manipulate narratives, and they weaponize deception.
Thriving in politics, intelligence, agencies, and high finance, Machiavelians excel or,
secrecy and cunning are key to success. Yep. So let's
talk about Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
I don't know much about the guy.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Perfect Machiavelian now, of course, Jeffrey Epstein billionaire financier and
convicted sex offender who ran an elite sex trafficking network
using his wealth, immense wealth, powerful connections, and manipulation to
exploit his victims, all the while maintaining influence over powerful people.

(35:11):
He embodied Machiavelianism in the Dark Triad through strategic deception
calculated networking and control tactics. Epstein built influential alliances, using
blackmail in secrecy to protect what he was really doing.
Manipulating behind the scenes. Epstein concealed crimes under a facade

(35:32):
of legitimacy, prioritizing power, control, and extreme self interest over
any sense of morality. Zero morality. Then we have the
let's talk about the media mogul, Rupert Murdoch. Yeah, you
heard of Rupert, a media mogul, As I said he.

(35:54):
Rupert Murdoch shaped global narratives and influenced elections and polo
sees through his vast media empire. He exemplifies Bachiavelianism in
the dark triad by strategically using his media to serve
political and financial interests. Murdock manipulates narratives, fostering division while

(36:16):
maintaining global influence. He prioritizes power and profit over journalistic integrity,
leveraging misinformation and sensationalism to control discourse. His calculated alliances
and business tactics reflect a ruthless pursuit of dominance, favoring manipulation, deception,

(36:38):
and long term influence over ethics.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah it makes me also, Robert Moses there's another character
like this. Robert Moses was the I forget his actual title,
but he was the facto not owner, but basically owner
leader of New York City during the twentieth century earlier
on early to mid twentieth century. He built everything that

(37:02):
we know of New York, all the parks, all the
building ideas. He had. He had very expensive, very controlling
power making things, and he hated minorities, so he hated
all public transportation things like that. So he uses effort
and control to really control everyone. The mayor has never
had any power over him. Wow, even though he was
like there were his boss, you know, never was he

(37:24):
was like the interesting he was like the parks planner
whatever his title was. He was there for like forty years.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Jeez.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah. There's I mean countless cases throughout history of people
like this, you know, but probably the most scary trait
from the dark triad of psychopathy the absence of conscious.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, this one's interesting. Is this scariest for you or
just scariest for in general?

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Like in general, just these cold calculated no remorse, no feeling.
I'm gonna get what I want and that's it. Yeah,
do it with the expense of others. I don't care,
you know, right, So psychopathy it's the most dangerous. I
think of the three dark triad traits, Psychopaths lack empathy, guilt,

(38:10):
and remorse, making them capable of cold blooded actions without hesitation.
They could be charming, but the charisma is a mask
concealing a true predator underneath. Now, unlike narcissists who crave
admiration and machiavelians who seek power, psychopaths just crave dominance

(38:32):
and chaos. The risk takers often found in high stakes
environments like Wall Street or law enforcement or organized crime.
So think about like Ted Bundy, I mean perfect psychopath
the iceman. Yeah, Bundy will go with that since that's

(38:53):
what I scripted here, although we should do an episode
on Iceman Koklinski. Yeah, fascinating. Now, if you don't know,
a notorious American serial killer who brutally murdered at least
thirty women in the seventies, though the true number of
his victims it's really unknown, but his crimes spanned multiple states,

(39:16):
making him one of the most infamous figures in criminal history.
Bundy used charm, deception, and manipulation as powerful tools, allowing
him to lure victims into this false sense of security
before attacking and viciously murdering them, often faking injury or
opposing as this authority figure. Bundy exploited human empathy to

(39:40):
gain trust, demonstrating a calculated and predatory intelligence. Now, His
ability to evade capture for years showcased his deep understanding
of psychological manipulation. He repeatedly escaped from custody, luting a

(40:00):
jail break in nineteen seventy seven, which allowed him to
continue his violent killing spree. His remorseless, psychopathic nature was
evident in his cold detachment from his crimes, even as
he recounted them for authorities with chilling detail, no remorse.
He exuded this superficial charisma, deceiving not only his victims,

(40:21):
but also law enforcement, the media, and even those closest
to him, including a longtime girlfriend who remained unaware supposedly
of his double life for years. That's what a lot
of these guys do. Gacy Bundy double life BTK, which
we'll talk about same thing now. Bundy embodied the dark

(40:42):
triad trait of psychopathy through his utter lack of empathy,
his impulsivity, callousness, and utter disregard for human suffering. Bundy's
ability to kill without remorse, coupled with this charm and
calculated deception, cemented his status as one of history's most
infamous serial killers. Going back some there's Joseph Stalin. Stalin,

(41:05):
who ruled the Soviet Union from nineteen twenty four to
nineteen fifty three. To maintain absolute power, Stalin orchestrated purges
and forced labor camps or gulags, famines, mass executions, resulting
in an estimated twenty million deaths.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah, he was paranoid. Fuck dude.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
He exemplified psychopathy within the Dark triad through his extreme ruthlessness,
lack of empathy, and manipulative control. Stalin showed zero morse
for mass suffering, eliminating all his perceived threats without hesitation.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yep, Montal.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Yeah, his grandose self image, paranoia, and disregard for human
life reflects classic psychopathic traits, prioritizing again power over morality.
We have Gary Ridgeway. He was the Green River killer
serial killer who murdered at least forty nine women. They say,

(42:04):
primarily in the eighties and nineties. He targeted vulnerable women.
He strangled them. Disposed of their bodies in wooded areas rivers.
He evaded capture for decades until his two thousand and
one arrest, and Gary Ridgway exemplified psychopathy in the Dark
triad again through his lack of empathy, emotional detachment from

(42:25):
his crimes, and his manipulative nature. Ridgway again showed zero
remorse for his crimes, and his calculated predatory behavior and
complete disregard for human suffering reflect classic psychopathic traits, prioritizing
personal gratification over morality or empathy. Now, those are kind

(42:48):
of individual traits highlighted in key figures in history. What
happens when you get all three traits in one person?

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Well, I think it's thal I my fit that.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
I think a lot of them could too.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, a lot of the one the perfect three.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Well, each trade is it's clearly dangerous on its own.
Some individuals embody all three, making them exceptionally lethal dangerous. Now,
these figures blend the grandiosity of narcissism, the cunning cunningness
of machiavelianism, and the callousness of psychopathy, making them manipulative masterminds.

(43:28):
So think of and this one might be controversial. Donald
Trump not contro rush at all. That's pretty obvious, are
you us president? He's infamous for his arrogance and vanity,
his obsession with loyalty, yeah, you're fired, and his relentless
need for praise. I don't think this is anything out
of the ordinary. No, No, And he doesn't handle criticism nope,

(43:50):
right at all?

Speaker 2 (43:52):
No, and pretty instantaneously too, right.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Now, through his observed behavior. Remember this is observed behavior.
He's not clinically tested for the dark triad. Well, of course, right, okay,
but I just wanted to maybe I should have put
that out there earlier. None of these people.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Fact in the test and the web page, whether they
tell you that if you're actually doing this test, and
that probably means the good thing, and you're on your
way to hopefully being a better version of yourself.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Well, which is great, because you and I both took
this test and we'll reveal that later.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
I'm glad that you think that way.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
So, yeah, he's arrogant, he's vain, he's obsessed with loyalty,
he wants praise. And you don't criticize Trump, right or
you get both barrels right?

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Usually, And again I said through observed behavior in business
and politics. President Trump, a lot of people say, exhibit
all three traits associated with the Dark triad. His narcissism
is evident in his grand self image, constant need for admiration,
and sensitivity to criticism. I think that's my number one

(44:56):
for him, the criticism thing, NARCISSI oh yeah, like yeah,
I can see it. He often displays arrogance, impulsiveness, and
exaggeration of his achievements. Maybe debatable. His Machiavelian tendencies emerge
in his strategic manipulation, willingness to bend the truth. Maybe

(45:17):
some would say that, and some would say his focus
on personal gain over ethics. I would say that, I'm
trying to be very careful here, right, I don't want
to isolate anybody. Some experts suggest he also demonstrates psychopathic traits,
including impulsivity and a lack of empathy, with studies even
ranking him hold on, I get a drink, with some

(45:43):
studies ranking him even higher than Adolf Hitler on psychopath
psychopathy scales.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Well, it's definitely an impulsiveness. I get that.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
I'm just going to skate right on by that one.
While these assessments are based on public behavior. Remember he's
not diagnosed. He wasn't tested for this stuff. No formal
dark triad diagnosis on Donald Trump. His actions have led
many to view him as a prominent example of all
three triad traits in political leadership. Mm hm, Now this

(46:15):
next one I would agree with. Bernie Madeoff. Remember made Off,
this fuck football guy, the architect of the largest Ponzi
scheme in history.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Oh that guy. Yes, I know that.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
Yes, he swindled this fucking jerk off sixty five billion
dollars out of people.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Yeah, b Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
Made Off convinced the world that he had this full
proof investment strategy, luring in everything from celebrities to pension funds.
His narcissism, thinking he was untouchableh machiavelianism, deceiving investors, and
psychopathy zero remorse for his actions made made Off the
ultimate financial predator. He portrayed himself as this investment genius

(47:01):
with exclusive market insight, demanding admiration while rejecting scrutiny. Don't
look at what I'm doing here, just trust me. His
Bachiabelian deception was meticulously crafted. He abricated bank statements and
manipulated the financial system for decades that should have been
he fabricated big statements and manipulated the financial system for decades. Yeah,

(47:26):
even fooling financial regulators.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, yeah, I remember. It's kind of yeah. The second
you said the bank, like, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
A yeah, I think I think Nicholas Cage was victim.
He made made off made Nicholas Cage. Yeah, that's why.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
That's why he's doing all those movies for long. I
think he just got out of his whole recent come back.
It took a long time. It should be said also
that member Jay hasn't mentioned that intellect has anything to
do with these three things. A lot of people associate
a lot of things that people do, especially of the
nature of these examples like made up like Trump, like
other living examples and dead examples of people orchestrating these

(48:06):
huge things, and it has nothing to do with intelligence.
Because the second you take empathy off, the second you
don't give a shit about anybody, then yeah, everything seems
a lot more easier to get away with because you
don't care about the other person you don't like. We
associate not giving a ship with being able to do

(48:26):
more things like no, we're just able to do things
that we shouldn't be. And that's the problem. I think
that people who kind of have these impulsivities and they
cater to them, you know, hand and foot like these
people were talking about, in fact, are even dumber and
the money bank accounts, they're like, they have nothing to
show for it, excet for just disgrace every time. So

(48:49):
for me, that's always a dumber choice. But it should
be said that Jay has not mentioned smarts has anything
to do with us. You're confused, both fantastic point. You
can be you can be a psychopath and be dumbat
shit and you still get away with its that the
smartest guy wouldn't do because the guy has empathy or whatever,

(49:09):
you know, Like that's the yeah, I love it.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
Good now. Madoff's psychopathic laugh of remorse was evident, as
his fraud wiped out people's entire life savings, it ruined charities,
and it led to multiple suicides, including his own fucking son. Really,
his own fucking son offed himself over this. Wow, and

(49:32):
after Madoff was caught and despite the devastation he caused,
including death, he remained cold and emotionless during trial. This
bastard got one hundred and fifty years in prison, and
he died in twenty twenty one, his name forever linked
to financial fraud.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah. I want to imagine having that last name pretty bad,
because I know I remember the name and oh yeah,
even if I didn't remember the exactly who it was.
But other the people are not like me. Other people
remember much better that.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
The biggest thing I remember from the story was his
own was the son killing himself because of a disgrace
and everything.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah, fuck, it's.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Sins of the father, right, Yeah? What about Vladimir Putine? Putin,
master of political chess, known for covert operations, disinformation campaigns,
and manipulation. Putin operates through deception, secrecy, and strategic dominance,

(50:30):
and his calculated, ruthless strategies have kept him in power
for decades.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, I mean, he's definitely, It's basically a dictatorship almost
one hundred percent, if not for real.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
He exemplifies the dark Triad traits through his leadership style
and political tactics. His Machiavelian nature is evident in his
use of disinformation, election interference, and the poisoning literal poisoning
of political enemies to maintain control.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah. I remember reading about that one journalist for example.
You also think of that political opponent beyond me, O man.
I forgot his name, that's with an an RV.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
I could see the pictures of his face in my mind.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Yeah, I just can't remember his name. He didn't he
didn't die though, but he survived. He survived the poisoning.
He came over here, went back over there, and then
he was arrested. If I'm not mistaken, yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
I couldn't tell you where he is. I would be
surprised if he's alive.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Today, I won't be Yeah, I will be surprised to Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
But yeah, I mean he poisoned his political enemies, his
psychopathic traits emerged, and his lack of remorse for war crimes, assassinations,
and the imprisonment of political opponents, with his government linked
to countless murders of journalists, dissonance political opponents.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Right.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Meanwhile, his narcissism is reflected in his carefully curated strong
man image, reinforced through stage shirtless photos, military stunts, and.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Almost see him like just arm wrestling people.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Just over the top him and it stallone. You know,
a lot of propaganda. It's just paining him as this invincible,
irreplaceable ruler. Right, Putin has effectively turned Russia into a
dictatorship to your point, crushing opposition and consolidating power almost indefinitely,
it seems.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Well until he dies. Right, That's the only great thing
about this is that everyone eventually dies.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
Well, you know what cheers to that everyone dies now
despite international condemnation. I mean, look what's happening now. His
grip on Russia remains tighter than ever, with no end
in sight. Yeah, now, you know, maybe my favorite part
of this whole thing is when it really all three

(52:37):
come together. In serial Killers, we talked about some yes, psychopathy,
machiavelianism big with the serial killers. Some killers act impulsively
out of pure psychopathy and that's it. But the most
dangerous ones strategically plan. Serial killers typically display all three
of these traits that we're talking about, allowing them to

(52:59):
avoid detection for years. Just I mean, I'm not gonna
get too deep into it. But John Wayne Gacy, we
covered him extensively in episode eighty six. Listeners go back
and listen to episode eighty six. But Gaysey was this
highly manipulative narcissist who was hidden in plain sight and
he maintained a respected social image while committing horrific murders.

(53:22):
His crimes showed a complete lack of empathy and remorse,
subjecting victims to brutal torture and murder with chilling detachment,
and even after his conviction, Gasey remained unrepentant. Actually his
final words right before being killed, put to death or
kissed my ass, just perfectly encapsulating his callousness and lack

(53:43):
of guilt. Gaysey exemplified the dark triad traits of narcissism, machiavelianism,
and psychopathy, which allowed him to maintain this double life
as a respected community figure while committing these horrific crimes.
His narcissism was evident into carefully crafted reputation he built
as a successful businessman and a dedicated local politician with

(54:06):
the j c's remember, he even met roslind Carter. He
reinforced his friendly and trustworthy image by performing as the
clown Pogo at children's events, further embedding himself within the
community and masking his sinister nature. As a Machiavelian. Gaysey
was a master manipulator who used deception to evade justice

(54:30):
while carrying out his murders, he skillfully maintained again this
respected public image, luring victims by offering fake job opportunities
and even by impersonating police officers to gain victims trust.
I mean, this is the triad in perfect harmony. When
some victims managed to escape, Casey gas lilt them, making

(54:52):
them question their own experiencesulously. Gasey meticulously calculated his crimes,
ensuring minimal risk while using manipulation tactics to mislead law
enforcement and prolong his killing spree. His psychopathy, though, was

(55:13):
perhaps the most chilling aspect of his personality. Lacking empathy
and emotional remorse, he displayed extreme cruelty and a disturbing
detachment from his actions. Gasey's crimes were methodically executed. He
tortured and controlled his victims, He continued killing even while
under suspicion, and he arrroangantly taunted police, all while maintaining

(55:36):
his innocent, trustworthy facade. His ability to seamlessly shift between
a community leader and a ruthless murderer made him one
of the most terrifying serial killers in history. Ultimately, between
nineteen seventy two and nineteen seventy eight, Gasey was convicted
of murdering thirty three young men and boys, making him

(55:57):
one of America's most prolific serial killers.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
He was executed by lethal injection on May tenth, nineteen
ninety four, and his case remains a haunting example of
how dark triad traits can manifest an extreme criminal behavior,
allowing individuals like Gacy to manipulate, deceive, and kill without remorse.
Dennis Raider another perfect dark triad serial killer, the BTK

(56:26):
oh Bind torture Kill Now Dennis Raider again infamously known
as BTK bind torture kill.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
At that meant boris the knife for this? The knife
does not BTK.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Wasn't that a Rocky and Bullwinkle character?

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (56:40):
I don't know. It just came out of my head, bro,
It just came out of my head. And I haven't
thought of Rocking Bullwinkle since the eighties. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
The whiskey's getting your brain gone clearly so. For nearly
thirty years, Raider led this double life, presenting himself as
literally a church going family man and community leader while
secretly committing some of the most sadistic murders ever recorded.
Raider was obsessed with power, admiration, and recognition, especially narcissism. Right.

(57:12):
His narcissism was evident in how he controlled his victims,
taunted the police, and constructed a respectable public image. Raider
didn't just kill his victims. He played with them like
a god, controlling their last moments. He forced victims into
helpless submission before killing them, often drawing out their suffering
for his own sense of dominance. For example, during the

(57:33):
nineteen seventy four Otero family murders, Rader tied up the
family and strangled them one by one, forcing them to
watch each other die. Fucked up his BTK moniker again.
Buying torture kill was a brand he carefully crafted to
make himself infamous. He literally nicknamed himself. If that isn't

(57:55):
pure narcissism, I don't know what is.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Yeah, And considering the fact that very few famous murderers,
at least in the in the US, get a chance
to name themselves themselves as zodiacting this guy, you know,
that's really ad. That's not many, it's not many.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
Just what a shitty like you don't you can't nickname yourself, dude,
It's got to be given to you.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Well, he did it count? Oh, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Unlike other serial killers who tried to stay in the shadows,
Raider wanted recognition. He sent letters to the media and
the police demanding that they acknowledge his crimes. Narcissist right.
Just like Gacy, Rader crafted this perfect public persona. He
was married with children, he was the president of his

(58:42):
church council, and he had a career as a compliance officer.
Narcissists Now as far as machiavelianism, remember, Machiavelians are cold, strategic,
and willing to manipulate others for their personal gain, traits
that Raider perfected over decades. And again, just like Gacy,
Raider led this complete double life. He used his job

(59:03):
as a compliance officer to intimidate others and exert authority
got him off, which in turn fed that ego and
that desire for control. He even helped plan community crime
prevention programs. You can't make this up. Pretending to be
concerned about safety while secretly committing the very crimes they
were trying to stop. Raiders cunning and patience made it

(59:26):
more dangerous than most serial killers. He carefully stalked and
planned his attacks, often waiting weeks or months before striking.
He would study his victims. He'd slink into their homes
and hide, fucking hide in people's homes, and he'd prepare
these hit kits. He'd bring rope and tape and weapons,

(59:46):
and he'd lay in wait before attacking. That's terrifying. Yeah,
lock your fucking doors people. Now, as far as psychopathy,
do we even need to talk about the psychotomy?

Speaker 2 (59:59):
I mean, do any of these if you have an empathy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Right, exactly if you're not suffering psychopathy right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Almost feel like the most important one, the most important
first hurdle to be considered dangerous is if you if
you if your psychopathy is bad because without because the
empathy I think stops a lot of these problems most times,
not every time, I most times, yeah, I would agree.
I would say it's a big empathy. It's a big
key factor to the human understanding of life.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
And to not be a fucking psycho is empathy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Right, I think? I mean without that, I mean, if
you have that, you're not a killer. Simple as that
or not maybe as simple, but overall pretty simple.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Yeah, but you know again, I mean psychopathy through and through.
This guy is a psycho threw and through. He didn't
just kill, He made him his victims suffer. He bound
them in ways that prolonged their death. He enjoyed the
fear and the pain, and he relished and forcing family
members to watch each other die, I mean, the most
sacred things. He would destroy, and he noorse, zero morse.

(01:01:01):
When caught. He never apologized to victims or to families.
Victims families, and he even kept pictures and drawings of
his crime so he could relive again and again. Raider
was arrested in five, two thousand and five, and he
confessed to ten murders, though he suspected he suspected of
many more. He got ten life terms without parole and

(01:01:22):
remains in solitary confinement at the Eldorado Correctional Facility in Eldorado, Kansas,
and still to this day, zero remorse.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I would have bet money that Eldorado was not in Kansas.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
South America, White or New Mexico.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
You think, you know, oh, Arizona, maybe something.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Kansas's pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
I never would have imagined. Could he give me fifty
gases on which state? And it would be the fiftieth state?

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
All right, let's talk about another serial killer was bringing
home with the serial killer stuff three Dark Tria in
one person Ed Kemper Edmund Kemper gold Star for sick.
Fuck this guy, Yeah, narcissistic, psychopathic killer who toyed with

(01:02:15):
authorities and he saw himself as intellectually intellectually superior to
everyone around him. He's also known as the co ed Killer.
He's one of the most intelligent, manipulative, and terrifying Sarah
killers in history. He had an IQ of one hundred
and forty five, near genius, and he used his narcissistic ego,

(01:02:36):
Machiavellian cunning, and psychopathic detachment to evade detection while committing
some of the most brutal murders ever recorded. Now for narcissism,
ed Kemper believed, as I said, that he was the
most intelligent person in the room, and he was obsessed
with his own intelligence and perceived superiority. He believed he

(01:02:57):
was smarter than the cops, the public, and even the
psychologists who would evaluate him. He had again a near
genius level IQ of one forty five, which was higher
than most psychologists of law enforcements.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
All people investigating them, just people in general.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Right right. Kemper believed he was too smart to get caught,
which allowed him to interact with police without suspicion. And
he actually frequent in bars where police officers hung out,
and he would engage in conversations with these cops about
the ongoing murders. They were investigating his own murders. So
he's saddled up right next to these cops asking about

(01:03:36):
the murders he's committing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Yeah, that's ego narcissism.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
Exactly after his arrest, Kemper spoke in great detail about
his crimes, no answer, remorse, and it's because he wanted to,
and he wanted to be studied, He wanted to be remembered.
He wanted to be like the specimen narcissism right exactly now, Machiavelianism. Remember,
Machiavellianism was all about manipulation, and Kemper mastered it. His

(01:04:03):
ability to deceive people in control situations allowed him to
evade capture for years, even as he committed multiple brutal murders.
And incredibly, he befriended the very cops investigating his crimes.
Like I said, Kemper carefully crafted the image of this
gentle giant. He stood at six feet nine inches over
two hundred and fifty pounds as a beast. But even

(01:04:27):
though he was physically imposing, he was polite. He was
soft spoken. He'd put people at ease, and that is
a classic Machiavelian tactic. By the way, he earned the
nickname the co ed killer because he would frequently pick
up a hitchhiking girls, presenting himself as this kind kind
of protective older brother type before revealing his true predatory,

(01:04:50):
murderous nature. He'd chat, he'd laugh, he'd reassure his victims,
and that boom, he'd strike, suddenly and violently out of nowhere.
Even after his arrest, many who knew Kemper refused to
believe he was a serial killer, a testament to how
effectively he manipulated those around him. And as far as psychopathy,

(01:05:13):
oh man, if there was a gold medal for psychopathy,
Ed Kemper would have won it. He didn't just kill.
He brutalized, strangling, stabbing, decapitating, even engaging in necrophilia. Kemper
demonstrated complete one percent detachment from human suffering. He mocked
his victims no remorse. He kept severed heads as trophies,

(01:05:38):
and he talked to him like they were still alive.
And Kemper's violence it started early. He murdered his grandparents
when he was a child, and later he turned that
murderous monster onto his own mother. In this sheer act
of brutality, as she went to sleep, he carved her
head in with a claw hammer and he slid her throat.

(01:05:59):
Then he decapitate her and engaged in oral sex with
his mother's severed head. And if that wasn't fucked up enough,
he shoved her tongue and lyrics into the garbage disposal.
He placed her head on a shelf and he screamed
at it, they say for an hour. He threw darts
at his mother's head and he destroyed it, smashed it

(01:06:20):
to pieces with a hammer. He was as psychotic as
they come.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Yeah, and that goes more than just no empathy. That's
that's actually bonkers. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like
nuthouse kind of behavior.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
It's not even human behavior. Why do you even it's
alien behavior?

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
Yeah, that's beyondes. It's like it's pure impulse. You're just reacting,
it's constantly reacting to your own actions. Kind of thing,
you know, fucked up dude. Also, I think we also
associate this guy as and rightfully so, because you know,
there's not a lot of I don't know, serial killers
are a different breed here in this country. But is
that he offered her You know, he was so willing

(01:07:01):
to talk about it, so willing to I think we
get a lot of great hay out of this guy
because he was willing to be so open about what
he had done, about who he is and what he is,
that he jumps up to the line as far as
the smartest slash Machaelvalianists, slash whatever. That's why I'm saying.

(01:07:23):
You know, I'm not saying that other there aren't smarter
Cerira killars. I'm not comparing them like that. I'm just
saying that reason we got so much because he gave
so much. He was so willing, right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Yeah, And in seventy three he turned himself in, but
not out of guilt, but simply because he was bored
and saw no reason to continue with this murdering. Right,
that's crazy, fucked up. He was convicted of ten murders,
though the actual number may be a lot higher. He
wanted the death penalty but was instead sentenced to life
and again, just like the other guy's zero morse too, Well.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
That's how you get out of death penalty. He just
asked for it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Unless you want to get shot. They just get was
it today they killed that guy by firing squad?

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Is that I did hear about it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Namber the fucking guy's name, But today they shot him.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
They killed him for him?

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Fuck? Uh? I remember Kemper is currently so just to
kind of wrap up Kemper, he's serving his eight life
terms at the California Medical Facility in Vacaville. And here's
a bizarre little twist.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
You know, Vacaville and Spanish is Cowtown?

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Really? Yeah? Oh I didn't know that Kyle is vodka.
Oh wow, So Kemper's in Cowtown. It seems fitting when
you say California.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
So it must be his manic. You know, it must
be interesting cool anyway, continue, But I.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
Mean, I mean, life is stranger than fiction?

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
What is? While behind bars? Kemper has recorded hundreds of
audio books for a program called The Blind Project. So
if you've ever listened to the audiobook form of Flowers
in the Attic, the Glass Key, Merlin's mirror petals on

(01:09:06):
the wind, the Rosemary Murders, or even Star Wars. You've
heard the voice of one of the most deranged psychopaths
in modern crime history.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
Mm, that's crazy. You know that about them? That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
Now you kind of bring it all home. Dark triad
personalities in particular are dangerous because they blend in seamlessly
in society. They use charm and deception to manipulate people
around them. Recognizing the red flags from the dark triad
is crucial for self protection. Dark triad personalities often exhibit

(01:09:44):
charm and flattery, appearing too good to be true. A
lack of empathy another warning sign. These individuals remain cold
and detached from other people suffering. They manipulate in the gaslight,
and they twist reality to control narratives. Pathological lying is
common with frequent contradictions in their stories, and lastly, entitlement

(01:10:08):
and arrogance define them as they see themselves above the rules.
Being aware of these trades can help you identify and
defend against their influence. So how do you protect yourself
if you do come across a dark triad personality? Awareness,
strong boundaries, decisive action, trust your gut. If something feels off,

(01:10:32):
don't dismiss it. These individuals thrive on deception, and your
instincts can often pick up on subtle red flags before
your rational mind catches up the gut instinct. Set firm
boundaries with these people to avoid being drawn into their
manipulative web. They'll test your limits, push for control, and

(01:10:53):
they try to create emotional entanglements. So refusing to engage
with these people is crucial. Seek external validation by cross
checking these people's claims with other people, as they frequently
distort reality and twist facts, or they gaslight their targets.
Never assume their version events is accurate without independent confirmation.

(01:11:16):
Be mindful of how much personal information you share with
someone like this. Dark triad individuals exploit vulnerabilities, using intimate
details as leverage to manipulate and control you. The safest
strategy is to cut ties fast. If you recognize clear
signs of narcissism, machiavelianism, or psychopathy, don't wait for proof.

(01:11:38):
Distance yourself before you become entangled in their bullshit, their
web of deceit. Walk away quickly. That'll save you from emotional, financial, psychological,
or physical harm. Get away from these people so the
dark triad again, it's the psychological roadmap to power and distry.

(01:12:01):
Understanding these traits it's not just academic, it's a survival
skill in a world where manipulation, deception, and ruthlessness often
go unchecked. From Wall Street to the White House, to
Silicon Valley to serial killers, dark triad individuals have shaped
history through deception, ruthlessness, and power hungry ambition. Understanding these

(01:12:24):
traits is key to recognizing them and leaders, coworkers, and
even in romantic partners. The dark triad has changed how
psychologists understand power, manipulation, and unethical behavior in everyday life.
While now not all individuals with these traits are criminals,
they often rise to positions of influence, sometimes with destructive consequences.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Yeah, is the part of the time where we're going
to talk about our results.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
We did take the test, So that's the dark triad.
What do you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
I'm not going to I don't know how the pieces
will be for you. What if I tell you this sentence? Okay, yeah,
I think about now. I didn't know it was called
a dark try. I didn't know this was a thing, MANU,
before you send me this the topic. What if I
told you. I think about this all the time, think,
would you be surprising.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
People like this?

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Like me? Like?

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
Am I? Am I insane? Am I you know this?
Or is that guy that like?

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
I think about the salt and others and in myself
like do I have this? Am I? You know?

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
H Well, I think it shows self awareness, which I
think is something that would take you out of the
dark triad. It would be concerned about a person within
the dark Triad.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
But I do think of a lot about this. I
didn't know it was again, I didn't know it was
was a thing like a measurement.

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
I would say, you're you are empathetic for sure? You?

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
I mean, I think it very well.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Well, I'm kidding out, that's one of the traits. Oh
my god, Machiavelian.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
I think you're gonna go first though, because my answers
are gonna be much more fun.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Okay, well, so you can take this test online and
to Oscar and I took this test, the dark Triad test,
and uh, I gotta say I did not necessarily agree
with my test. But okay, so when I took and
I should probably leave the link in the show notes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Right, I thought you would I thought you would already people.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
Would want to take the test. All right, I gotta
find that link again. It's been a while since.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
I did this. I email it to me. So that's
end the record somewhere.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Oh yeah, and that's the thing. Listeners check the show notes.
A lot of photos in there of these these dark
Triad IDALs. Yeah, I should have sat at the top
of the show. Fuck uh. And I'll leave a link
to the test so you could see if you're a
dark Triad person. So when I took the test, I
scored low in psychopathy and narcissism. God okay, but my

(01:14:46):
Machiavelianism score was pretty high.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Now there are numbers associated with this, they're gonna give
the number.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
Yeah, well, so I scored a three point six on
Machiavelianism and the average was three point oh four, which
that's a notable, noticeable difference.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
So, now, according to the results, I have a somewhat
somewhat cynical version of view of the world and may
be drawn to power and status. Okay, it suggests that
I'm relentless in my pursuits for professional and personal goals.
The test says that I would do whatever is necessary
to achieve those goals, even if it meant someone else

(01:15:25):
had to suffer. But I don't. I don't buy that.
While the test clarifies that this likely wouldn't involve physical harm,
like I'm not going.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
To take out someone losing opportunity or someone or I might.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
I might manipulate things to make someone else lose and
me win. Right, I'm not gonna, But it says not
by physical harm, So I'm not gonna Nancy Kerrigan someone's ass, right,
take out their knees. It just implies that I might
justify actions like making a coworker look bad if it
helped me secure a promotion.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Got it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
I don't agree.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
That way. Although you are very motivated a person in general,
so I guess I can see how this some of
this could be seen that way.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
Okay, no, that's good. So the test also offers advice.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
I also, I've never seen you work, though, so I
really don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
I should be said before I was very motivated.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
I mean, I think your work ethic. When we're both
super young, I have to say we're probably different people
from that point. I mean, yeah, so I can't even
say oh yeah, when I knew it was of our
tender you got to be the same worker, no way.
You know, I just don't imagine that's true anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
I would say definitely. In the in the past, my
professional care career, I was definitely motivated, goal orientated, wanted
to be the best.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Yeah, now, well you gotta be donald. It's been, it's been.
They canna kind of shape you a little bit different.

Speaker 3 (01:16:48):
It's been the last year two years have been really bad.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
Yeah, we're not gonna give details here, but you know,
I just know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
But so the test also gives you advice.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Oh yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:59):
So to be less of a Machiavelian, I guess to improve,
I should be less self serving and work on developing
a more positive outlook while learning to trust others. I
don't trust people I don't like. I don't I always
expect the worst. One suggestion was to start a gratitude journal,
focusing outward rather than inward, like recognizing the ways people

(01:17:23):
in my life positively impact me, rather than just counting
my own blessings.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Almost like self affirmations, but from a different point of view.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
I guess, yeah. Maybe. Another recommendation is to pause before
making decisions that could harm someone and ask if I
were in their position, how would this affect me, which
I do all the time like I always. You know,
it's the golden rule right treat others how you want
to be treated. Yeah, I live by that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Those are real golden rules for me too.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
Yes, and it says over time this approach could help
me build empathy while shifting my actions towards more balanced outcomes.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
That said again, I don't really agree with the results
and my cynical absolutely do. I want money, power, and influence.
Of course who doesn't. But I don't have those things
at all, right, so I think that proves I'm not
willing to do anything to get them, like a Machabelian. Uh.
And I've obviously I've never exploited anyone to advance myself.

(01:18:21):
I wouldn't. That's just not how I was raised. So
that was my test results. You know, Oh God, do
I need to pour? Do I need to pour more whiskey? Yes,
I'm gonna least screw off the cam.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
I'm gonna read it in order. Okay, I'm just gonna
read the whole thing. Okay, it's gonna be funky, yeah, Okay,
And MACHIAV Alianism is the worstcore.

Speaker 3 (01:18:39):
Okay, so we're the same.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
I scored four point zero out of three point oh nine.
Oh four, sorry, we put a four point unnoticeable. So
I'm a whole point higher than the average.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
In narcissism out of two point eight two, I scored
three point one. Okay, yeah, slightly more, got a lot more,
but more more than the average. In psychopathy out of
two point one eight, I scored three point seven. Holy
yeah what.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
Yeah yeah. Hold on, don't worry. I'm not explaining everything.
You just explain yourself. Hold on, I'm gonna read the
thing and then tell you why a lot of is bullshit.
You scored above the mean of narcissism, Machiavelianism, and psychopathy,
which indicates that you exhibit the signs of the same
of some level of dark triad personality. Importantly, this does

(01:19:36):
not necessarily mean that you exhibit strong dark tryad behaviors.
I know I don't. Indeed, given that you're taking this test,
which probably means you have an interest in self improvement,
you probably don't fulfill. The most extreme criteria of this
is basically this is hedging its bats. By the way,
he's like, please, don't kill me. I understand you have
all three. Don't kill me, don't find me.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
Don't shoot the message right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Right right. However, you might notice that you do regard
yourself highly and find it difficult to take constructive criticism.
A symptom of narcissism. Of course, your tendency might be
manipulatively cut corners at school or work if it means
your succeed, a symptom of macalin And you're right, that
is hard to say. It sucks anyway, And if cutting

(01:20:20):
corners makes your peers look worse, their feelings might not
matter too much to you. A symptom of psychopathy. This
is everything that's saying to me, right, okay. The advice
it gives, fortunately, research gives us a way to improve
the trick is to build yourself a sense of compassion
and empathy. This can't be done in small steps. For instance,
consider donating time or money to a volunteer organization that

(01:20:42):
you would normally spend on yourself. Once a week, you
can speak to a friend, family member, or stranger without
bringing the conversation to focus on yourself. If you're struggling
with a decision, no matter how big or small, genuinely
ask a friend for advice. This kind of practice, sorry,
will help you build your empathy to see and kindness.
So a lot of it is right, a lot of

(01:21:04):
it is wrong, A lot of it's wrong, A lot
is wrong. So you mentioned that golden rule. Yes, right,
that's literally what I told myself. I forced it in,
but genuinely, no, I did not have it for a
long time.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
That what what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
I did not think of myself? You know that only
one you mentioned like do on two other's only what
you would do onto you. This is a new thing
for you, No, last twenty years, but not the first
twenty years, you know. Okay, So like because I remember
I really at some point I hated myself in my twenties.

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
I think we've all gone through that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
Yeah, yeah, but I'm going through it, and you're right,
and it hits and no matter what, no matter how
that feels to the person's is different for every person.
Everyone feels it differently in different levels, in different ways. Right,
it's not flake, But it hit me hard. It felt
hard to me, and it felt like I was becoming
a real genuine asshole and like a real indifferent kind
of guy. And I'm still very much indifferent. I generally

(01:21:53):
usually don't give a shit about anything that happens. But
I forced myself to try to care and ask and
you know, do things. And it's become habit now and
it's fine and I can do it. Where it says
how cut corners to school to work, I do that
all the time. But I do it so I can
work less.

Speaker 3 (01:22:11):
Not because else, No, I would.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Never score anyone else. I just want to want to
do less. I just want to do war. What I
want to do. Everything success means to me is hanging out, drinking,
fucking podcasting and doing legos. That is my goal, you know.
So I have very manageable not has nothing to do
with hurting anybody else kind of goals. I don't want

(01:22:33):
millions of that. I don't want power, although if I
do have jazz sort of, God kill me. I'm gonna
take advantage so hard. Well, the thing is that I
do know. That's the thing is I would know. I
know that if I have power, I will take advantage.
And that's not good because I have those thoughts. I've
had had those thoughts and I will not let my
asse well do that not that I've had a chance

(01:22:54):
to have power or anything. Luckily, I'm a minority, so
I'm really safe.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
You are a minority, you're brown.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
Yeah, so luckily I'm safe from that, from gaining power. Anyway,
I'm saying all these things I feel on that point.
Is so, for example, I had this problem where I
think a comedy is a big problem, big deal in
my life. As you know, I make a lot of jokes.
I had this problem where the grand maturity of people
I know, especially my access. I had my biggest problem

(01:23:20):
with my axes, all my exes except for one maybe
where I never found them funny.

Speaker 3 (01:23:25):
Oh they would.

Speaker 2 (01:23:26):
I would in the heat of fighting. You know when
you fight with Becka, with an X or a girlfriend,
is that, you know, sometimes you bring up each other's things.
And one of the things I would often bring up,
especially with one of them, not gonna name names, is
that I would say, like, you know how every time
I laugh and you laughing because I make jokes, those
are my jokes. I've never laughed at anything you've ever said.
Have you noticed that I've never laughed at anything you've

(01:23:48):
ever said? Yeah, I said that once, and I pretty
much mean that with every single person except for one
of them. And and man, I really try to find
that because to a lot of guys, narcissistically speaking, they
would see they like when they say, oh, I want
to girl with a sense of humor, what they're really
saying is that they want someone that laughs at their jokes.
That's not my case. I generally want to laugh at

(01:24:09):
the jokes. I just find it. And I don't mean
just them, I mean everybody. I want to laugh at
people's jokes. It's so rare, it's you know, but.

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
You said something really interesting there that guys who say
I want a girl who writes a human which you
hear that all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
You hear that all the time, and I hate that
about myself. I don't want to be that guy. You know,
they want a woman who will laugh at and I
don't want to be that guy. I don't want to
be that guy. I like to be self aware enough
to know that. I don't want a vacuous thing either
from that kind of relationship. I don't want that. I
don't want to control over somebody like that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:40):
See that takes you right out of the triad right there.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
Yeah, but that's my But that's but that's like a
default position of mine, Like that's my default. Also, like
I also don't care what the world's thinking all the times.
I also think everyone's stupid, including me. I think we're
all stupid. No one's smart, everyone's dumb. I just fucking
hate everyone. I also don't trust anyone. So, like a
lot of these are simil so these answers are not
This is not quite right, you know what I mean. Yeah,

(01:25:04):
you need a whole other another set of questions to
kind of zero in on the nuanced sense of these questions.
That's what I was going to bring up, because it's
not very nuanced because if you ask these questions twenty
years ago, I would believe a lot more of this answer.
But now, no, even though I feel similarly in the
way I answer those questions, you know, so very interesting,

(01:25:24):
Like it's like do you hate your job and want
to move? And like don't care cutting corners? I'm like, yeah,
of course the cut corners, but you could I could
do less. Not because I want to fuck over somebody, right,
you know, it's a different reason. It's a different reason
for the questions.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
So you think the test is yeah, almost inherently flawed.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Yeah, it is. I kind of almost want to go
through one by one. We're not doing that, but I'm
saying I almost want to to kind of show what
I was thinking in those answers, because it's not the
same questions. Was it twenty six? I think it was
last seventeen A long time. No, it was a for you.
I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (01:25:53):
What were some of the questions? Could you remember someone?
Could you get to some of the questions or.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
No, well I took a screenshot.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
We won't do dead air, but no, no, we're not gonna
put you on the spot. I didn't mean to, but
maybe you're right. Maybe the listener should hear some of
these questions. Yeah, if they're not going to.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Go out and take them. Oh, it has two questions.
At least that said something about secrets. Okay, it's not
wise to tell your secrets. I agree completely percent.

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
But that could be your sir killer trying to hide
your your altery.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
For me, I just think it's fun. I think if
it's fun, it's better when it comes up naturally in conversation.
I will never tell you something, Jay, unless it canaturally
comes up in conversation. You many things that keep from
people just to make a joke out of it ten
years later. Damn, it's so much fun.

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
That's psychopothecus, Psychopledi's I just think it's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
I got you, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, Like
that's how I that's the difference right there. I'm not
doing it because I'm hiding a dead body. I'm hiding
the scale or the fact that I collected marbles for
two years. You know, Like it's just for fun, not
because you need to know, you know what I mean.
Like it's funny. That's what I'm saying. This shit is
people see me as a natural leader, and that why not?

Speaker 3 (01:26:57):
So that's a question. People see me as a natural leader.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Yeah, okay, okay, So I like to get revenge on authorities.
I put a little bit agree because I hate authority
figures to do no, say you agree because I hate
being told what to do, which is why I can't
keep a jump. I like to use clever manipulation to
get my way. I do, but for jokes, like I

(01:27:22):
don't actually want to explore you. I don't want your body,
I don't want to take violence on you. I don't
want your money.

Speaker 3 (01:27:27):
I put no on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
I'll do it just to make a joke better later,
Like I'll do it to make a mom joke. You know,
I won't do it for anything important.

Speaker 3 (01:27:37):
Dude, that's like Dennis Raider control with fucking jokes. I
don't even know what to say.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
I hate being the center of attention on hundred percent.
I hate. Yeah, this is why I lost. That's why
my narcissism wasn't as high because of that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:48):
I don't like being intention either. But yet we're podcasters,
which is pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Which is funny. I mean, I mean a lot of
people say also in the in for males especially. They
don't say it for females, but for males that podcasting
as a form of therapy.

Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
Hundred percent agree.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
It's like it's like it's like, instead of trying to
afford get therapy, we're doing podcasting, which is a little
bit true. I think it's a little bit true for
anyone that podcast not necessarily just men, but whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
Oh yeah, I would say, not not just men.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
I avoid dangerous situations. I put neutral because I've been
on both scents on that. I mean, we've done outings
for the SOS, you know where we put danger. Yeah,
I did a rave with a bunch of strangers in
front of you know, I mean, like, come on, whatever
it takes, you must get the important people on your side. Nope,
don't give a shit about that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:34):
I think I scored. I think I put higher, like
mostly agree or something on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
This is funny. Many group activities tend to be dull
without me.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
I see, I scored. I don't think shit of myself.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
I did. I did neutral because I usually would say, now,
I don't give a shit about myself like that, But
that's not true, because I've often seen a room kind
of light up a little bit when I make a job.
So I like doing that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
So we love when you come here.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
Thank you. Well, you know back needs to be quick
and nasty. No, I like it slow and steady. That's
why I put struggle in that one.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
Psychopath.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
Yeah, yeah, I avoid direct conflict with others because they
may you be useful in the future, so I put
higher on that one. Oh, I put your trou mine, Yeah,
because you never know when you could use something like that. Right,
that's a connection, that kind of thinking. I know that
I am special because everyone keeps telling me. So no
one tells me that ship, So I like, like, what
is that?

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
What?

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
I'm kind of fantasy? Are you asking right now? And
I know I think my mom said it week once,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
Pretty much my mom too.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
That's only one. People often say I'm out of control,
and that one a little bit agree because a lot
of people tell me what the fuck are you doing?
Like usually is what the fuck am I saying? Like
why am I saying that? Look at the context around you.
We're it a police precints or whatever, you know, wherever
we are, this is a church, this is a father
of a church, And what are you saying that to him?
You know, like that I've done stuff like that. It's

(01:29:58):
wise to keep track of information that can be used
against people later, I like for jokes, yes, but no,
not really you never know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
You never know. Yeah, I put higher on it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:08):
This is why I kind of like access a our
biggest thing for that because you know them the most,
so it's the most information you get. But I never
really use it. I don't care. Well, it's good, you know,
I just don't.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
Care better than I am.

Speaker 2 (01:30:18):
But if they use it against me, though, revenge revenge,
so yes, so yes that if there's used against me, yes,
I like to get acquainted with important people now to
not give.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
A shit in the corporate world.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
I would higher on that. Yeah, I definitely put nothing.
It's true that I can be mean to others. I said,
hell yeah, that one some of the fun, but as
a joke, of course, So I try to joke around it.
But I am being mean. There's just one more I'm
not gonna go through because there is twenty seven. So
you should wait for the right time to get back
at people that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
Yeah, sure I put that one.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
I'll stop there, but.

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
Wait for the right time to get back at people.
I probably I probably put that a little higher on mine.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Right, I'll stop there. But yeah, that's hopefully you get
everyone out there can get a better understanding to my
answers and why they sound worse than they really are.
I hope. But I have been working with myself. I
do work myself a lot, but I am I am
a canvas that's unfinished.

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
Dude, if you were a bad person, you would have
never been letting into my life.

Speaker 2 (01:31:17):
So do I know for a fact that if I
definitely didn't start working on myself a long time ago,
I would also agree with that statement. Really, yeah, I
want to and I want to be here because I
would find it boring and I wouldn't care about you,
but I don't care about your.

Speaker 3 (01:31:29):
Wow, I love you. Man. Well, I mean, uh, fucking
the Dark Triad man.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
Yeah, it's a fun time.

Speaker 3 (01:31:35):
And I found this on Instagram. I was scrolling through
Instagram and popped up The Dark Triad, like, oh, I
want one? What is this? So then I googled it.
I'm like, oh, this is fucking interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
And yeah, you're like, wait, there's a worser version of
the Gangs from China.

Speaker 3 (01:31:51):
I gotcha. Yeah, And so I hope you liked it.
It was It was a lot to put together. Yeah,
but uh it's interesting. That's the psychology behind it is
very interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
So yeah, it was fun. It was a lot of fun. Cool.

Speaker 3 (01:32:08):
Oh, we still have time to hit the Barye.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
We do.

Speaker 3 (01:32:10):
If you want to hit the bar oscar, will you
please take us home?

Speaker 2 (01:32:15):
We'll do.

Speaker 3 (01:32:42):
Mackavelianism or Machiavelianism, Machiavelianism or Mockavelianism, machi Alianism, Machi machia.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
I don't know if you're asking me or you're practicing.

Speaker 3 (01:32:56):
I'm kind of asking I think I'm just gonna say Mackavelianism, Machiavilianism,
but Machiavilien Mackavelli. Well what do you gonna do?

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
What are you gonna do? But yeah, he's worry about
sending it more there, I get Remember Cerrio got caught
that time. Yeah, and I told you that one time.
I did get caught myself, but I managed to talk
my way out of it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
Well you did. Yeah, what movie do you remember it was?

Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
It was an Ethan Hawk movie. I forgot the name
of it, but it was the one where he was
a drone pilot for the military. Oh well, I forgot
was the cobbler I remember? Yeah, I remember the conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
He got hit.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
I don't know, this is like ten thousand, ten thousand.

Speaker 3 (01:33:41):
It was a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
It was a lot of money. Yeah, they they really
cracked down on that ship. It's really I get it.
I don't it's illegal.

Speaker 3 (01:33:49):
I need it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
I think it's I think it's because something is illegal,
they feel like they can do whatever they want with it.
That's not the same thing. I don't think that that
punishment fits that crime.

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
You know, it's a big, big punishment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
So they've been cracking on it lately. I've been hearing things,
so I'm like, I'm not gonna risk it, uh for
that particular biscuit?

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
Cool?

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:34:16):
H you know, okay?

Speaker 3 (01:34:20):
Hello Hello. Machiavelianism, Machavelianism, machi or maca. It's a machiavelianism. Yeah, really,
machia belly Machiavelianism. That's ugly.

Speaker 2 (01:34:33):
It's an ugly word. Well, Machiavelli is not an ugly word.
It's a name.

Speaker 3 (01:34:38):
I think it's ugly too. I don't like the way
it's pronounced.

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
You seeing merchant in venice, I have not no, no, sir,
it's about your people.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Oh the moors, no gene hackpen too soon? I think
it's too soon?

Speaker 2 (01:34:58):
What's too soon?

Speaker 3 (01:34:59):
Hack?

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
What means too soon? To make a joke? You made
a joke a day after Heath Leger died. How do
you remember that? I don't know, but you know, something
stick and that one stucked. You take it so you know,
I will say that, No, it's not too soon. Nothing
too soon? He said. It doesn't go a shit. That
person's mysterious, mysterious death though very weird that that's mysterious.

(01:35:23):
That's what I'm saying, his dog and his wife. Right,
we're doing a double marathon, right. We just started back
on the show. Our episode just came out yesterday Wednesday,
and we're doing the whole marathon of Gene Hackman and
David Lynch, who died a month ago, a little over
a month ago night, you know. So I'm making the

(01:35:45):
boys watch the weirdest Lynch. I'm going with weird Lynch.
I know all his movies are weird, but yes, I
believe it not some normal movies.

Speaker 3 (01:35:50):
Which one are you going?

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
Inland Empire?

Speaker 3 (01:35:53):
Oh, I have a friend who lives in the Empire.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Nice and the Blast Highway. I think it was too nice.
That was a good soundtrack. Yes, it was a good soundtrack,
I remember vaguely, but it wasn't seen it though, And Luka,
it doesn't know anything. So he just pasts the two favorite,
the two biggest movies. You know, I'm gonna pick Wild
They're hard and Blue. Well, they're like okay ah, And

(01:36:17):
then I don't know what Rob is going weird too.
I feel like there's a lot of weird selections for
that guy.

Speaker 3 (01:36:27):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
I know what he went for he went for Erase
Her Head, which is his first movie. Really did not
know that as far as real an actual movie. And
then apparently he did a lot of shorts, a lot
of short films in the last twenty years. Wow, that's
why he didn't make a movie, because he was just
doing shorts and having fun. So Rock is gonna do
a compilation of his shorts. I think that's cool. That's
cool because those I haven't seen much. I've seen like

(01:36:50):
one or two. Cool, it'd be great. So yeah, so
we're doing doing a little little little what we call
it death admiration. No, like you know, we love those guys.
I love in memoriam. I love both memory and memory
and my Machiavelianism.

Speaker 3 (01:37:07):
Machiavelianism.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
Yeah, and that Why do you hate that word? It
just just just doesn't roll off. Is there a word
like that that you also hate that you can chorrel.
That's not a that's a.

Speaker 3 (01:37:20):
Name Dean Quarrel, which I just don't like to say it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
Yeah, I remember that episode It's abrasive on my on
your chords, on your charts. Yes, by the Joe killed
I said that joke to someone, which one the I
forget what word it was, but I think I said
made so it just says charisma. I said, it's actually
not pronounced that way. It's actually but I said it's

(01:37:45):
super deadpan seriously, and she totally like busted out laughing like, oh,
it wasn't that funny? Calm down, bitch, can't it was?
It was great, It was nice. I enjoyed the laughter.

Speaker 3 (01:37:58):
I enjoyed it laughter as well. I also enjoy drinking,
sleeping and traveling. So I say, after this we travel
and leave and go away. Yeah, forever and ever?

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
Amen? Which one is this where you to start? And
are you ah sure? I will get warmed up a
bit more. I mean, you don't want to bring your
you don't want to make bad energy to this show.

Speaker 3 (01:38:26):
No, you've been energy.

Speaker 2 (01:38:28):
You're not waking up icking crack you on the head
with this battle.

Speaker 3 (01:38:31):
All right, I'm excited to try this. It's supposed to
be very good, even though it is a fucking screw top.

Speaker 2 (01:38:38):
Cons maybe it's a state sponsored Missouri screw top.

Speaker 3 (01:38:46):
Did that come out okay? Or was it that all?
Sound all right?

Speaker 2 (01:38:49):
What do you mean? Sound all right? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:38:50):
I was explaining it and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
You mean what you wrote, it's okay. I mean the
content or the quality of the sound, like the way
I was saying it. You sound fine? It was fine. Yeah.
I feel like I'm because of quality. I'm kidding here.

Speaker 3 (01:39:03):
I feel like I'm way off and I got fucking
fifteen pages of get through. Mm. I love this.

Speaker 2 (01:39:09):
It's like a machine gun.

Speaker 3 (01:39:11):
I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
It's a screw top. I don't, No one does. That's
a few points off for me, to be honest. Out
of what? Out of ten?

Speaker 3 (01:39:18):
Yeah, I would give it like an eight now, no,
like a nine and a half because I love this.

Speaker 2 (01:39:24):
Yeah, No, it should it shouldn't. But I get it.
I get it. It's the equivalent of a girl getting
the ick kind of guy. I get it. It's something
ridiculous and dumb or small, you know, but you can't
help it. What are you smoking? What flavor? Something Caribbean?

(01:39:50):
I don't know, something roh correct. I'm gonna pour more,
pour some more? Yes? Please?

Speaker 1 (01:39:59):
Is that how you?

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
How you people say it?

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
Poor some more? Now we just grab a bottle and
do it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:04):
It's a play on an Archie Bunker. His Hispanic friend
was saying poor for more, and Archie Bunker's like, yeah,
poor some more. I fucking love that guy. Carol O'Connor,
of course you do. Hey me now, Blundy, oh Oscar?
What am I gonna do? What am I gonna do?

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
I don't know what.

Speaker 3 (01:40:28):
The fact that they put this wonderful bottle underneath the
screw cap, will you get over it? Don't Machiabellianism, M
Betty

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Episode 165: The Dark Triad - The Psychological Blueprint of Power, Deception, and Evil

Episode Transcript

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 165: The Dark Triad - The Psychological Blueprint of Power, Deception, and Evil