Episode 170: Cropsey - The Nightmare That Became Real - Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to my world, bitch.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good here.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Welcome to the one hundred and seventieth episode of the
Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
So Undeniably Paranormal.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
It's a good one. My name is Jason Knight, host
of the show, and with me as.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Always is Specterying Oscar.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Producer What producer Extraordinaire and podcast co host Oscar. Man,
it's been it's been a while since I seen you
about a.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Month, Yeah, a bottom month. That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
It is same as last time. Have you been? Man?
What's been going on?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Nothing crazy? Although you know we're in the in the
last legs of summer. Yeah, I mean next to this time,
next show, it'll be the start of autumn, right, that's
when around there?

Speaker 3 (01:18):
God, when does it start?

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Because it's coming out September first, it's the end of summer.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
I assume the autumn this show is September first. Yeah,
oh my god, wind does fallst I.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Mean autumn will have to be next by October first,
it will definitely be.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
There, right Oh yeah, so yeah, let me see.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, we're in the last legs of summer. So summer.
What does summer mean to you? Jay?

Speaker 3 (01:39):
So it's well, just okay, September twenty two, I guess
is wind fall starts?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay, like officially yeah, okay, uh to. I mean I
can't wait for the for this hot ass word it'll
go away, so yes, I love that, so I can't wait.
So anyway, I wasn't to say, like, what is besides vacations,
what does summer mean to you? I know, like beaches
and stuff like that, But you do that all around anyway,
so it doesn't even count.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
But like, well, you know you have summer vacations. What
do you think for me? Very important?

Speaker 1 (02:05):
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (02:05):
What do I think of in the summer? I think
of barbecues, okay, I think of in the backyard.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
You think outing is you think a cigar, You think
like cigar, smoking meats that you're gonna eat, bringing music
outside in thirty two hours, drinking and.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Smoking cigars, barbecuing, swimming. Kids are off school, so try
to catch more time with the kids. But as they're
getting older, that is less.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
And less, right, that's fleeting, It is freey going away,
it is fleeing. So I mean, yeah, UK was barely
there the last one. She was like doing all her
best to not be there.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Yes, like what she does.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm feeling that way. Hurage. I didn't want to be
there either too. I get that. So for me, I
think this and there's a new one that's been replacing
it over the last three years, especially last year, but
this year too. It hit me like a brick. I
wasn't planning on this at all. It just became a
thing again where I went to the Renaissance for three

(02:57):
times over the last month.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Have you really yes, that's not cheap. First of all, no,
it's like it's cheap.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
It's like thirty six bucks a time.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
But then yeah, and then you eat, you drink, you
get souvenirs. Yeah, so entertain yourself once you're in, right,
and we do.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
We do taper it, oh, I do for the most part.
Like I got a trinket here and there. You know,
I know, time I'll get food. I won't eat before
or after. Times we just get drinks, not that many
they are expensive, but I to meat and stuff like that.
But yeah, it's been like a thing where this friend
of mine and I we just go multiple times. We
went three weeks, three weekends in a row.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
First time we just went out of the blue for
no reason. Like, hey, you want to go to the
Renford Like yes, like went tomorrow, okay, and then the
next week we took her kid. She's a single month.
We took her kid, so it was like kid friendly earlier,
we went earlier, we all, so that got done earlier.
And then the time after that, the last weekend from

(03:55):
today from this recording, we went again just adults, right,
just just drinking, going later, and so we've been doing
that and we did that last year four times. Within
the year before that was like twice, so like this
might be my my summer thing.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
So how would you for people? So that's the Bristol Renaissance,
for it is the Bristol Renaissance, Bristol, Wisconsin. How would
you describe that to someone who's never heard of it,
doesn't know what it is?

Speaker 1 (04:21):
I mean, I feel isn't it I don't know. I
feel like people know what it is in general, even
if they've never been. But it is a it is
an open grounded market, not really market, but kind of
a market because everything costs area where where everyone is dressed,
from employees to people that visit as people from the

(04:44):
Renaissance or steampunk relator or Gothic as a lot of variations. Pirates.
My friend loves being a wench, like a pirate wench.
That's sort of like go to of it and uh
and and there's like thousands of shops and activities from
fire whips to like English style comics, to limericks, dirty limericks,
to to jousting that's like several times a day at

(05:07):
the fore End with real horses and we all obviously
actors pretend actors jousting.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I remember there was a hawk.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
I think, I'm sure that's I didn't see that this year.
But once you've been to all the shows, you know, Lee,
I don't feel like they need.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
To go how they trained hawks like hunt?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, no, I get that.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, we had a presentation with the last time we went,
my daughter dressed up as a princess, my son dressed
up as a dragon. And now today they would just
be mortified if you even brought up the idea of
them dressing up at such a good time.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Everyone does it because they're older.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Now that's you know, that's embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Tust me. Everyone was doing it or much older. Awesome. Yeah,
it's totally a safe space.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
So it's like it's like a Game of Thrones, a
town in Game of Thrones without all the bludgeoning, murder
and incest and inside.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Right, I mean, I don't know, I don't I don't know.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Big huge say something about Wisconsin. No, never help, big
huge property, beautiful property.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, it's a big clearing with a bunch of cars
around it.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, it's people dress up. It's it's literally like you
step back into the Middle Ages.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
That you know, it looks that way on the outside.
Obviously it doesn't. It's unlike cell phones don't work or anything.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
I always wondered, why won't they do something like that
during the wintertime? You know how cool that would look.
I'm sure that exists somewhere, blazing with snow cover.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
I'm sure that exists somewhere, but not here, definitely not
an Illinois, probably not the country. But maybe it does
exist somewhere. You might. You're probably right, probably somewhere that
has more perpetual winter. Maybe maybe Canada has something like that.
It would be awesome, or the Danish.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
And I haven't thought of the run fair in so long.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, so I think we talked about it after this
last time. And by the way, she went out the
week after she went again by herself like she's insane anyway,
But it doesn't matter. I was gonna say that. We
talked about it and like we should just get season tickets,
season passes.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
Oh there's such a thing.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, there are. Yeah, we'd have to go four and
a half times to make it worth the price, but I
would like that's easy.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, wee go all the time. So there's so much
to do, there, so much to spend money on.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, that's yeah. We say, for we want to get
one of those fancy robes that they saw a lot
of clothing stores. There a lot of food stuffs there,
from turkey legs to like you know, mushroom stews and
a lot of different things. And they'll have beat pizza
and fries and shit too. But but you know, period
era type of food. So we've been done that. That's
been fun. I don't know if I mentioned that. I
think I might have mentioned last year in last year's shows.

(07:29):
I don't remember either, but if I did, and I'm
repeating that a little bit, but yeah, I've been going
again this year and it all came all at once
over the last month, and I wanted to share that
because it's fun. If you've never heard of it. I recommended. Yeah,
it's great. And they have different weeks for different teams,
like they have a Pirate theme weekend, you know, and
they have anime weekend. I don't know why, I think

(07:50):
I think so. I think I read that anyway, so
they have to branching out, branching, branching out cool. And alternatively,
something else is that this must be the best time.
I think this might be one of the best times
ever in history, give or take to be a sci
fi enthusiast. Because at the same time we have Alien Earth,

(08:12):
oh shit, at the same time we have not it's
a foundation, I know, you don't see that. And then
at the same time we have Star Trek Strange New Worlds,
which if if you've been watching all three of those,
they're all coming at the same time every week. Not
at the same time, sorry, every week. They're all like
different types of sci fi, completely different, right, once hopeful
and episodic. Alien Earth is fucked up and horrifying, right

(08:33):
and horror, and then a Foundation is like serious and
heavy and that thinker right, and like, yeah, just so
much sci fi out there, so much cool sci fi.
I didn't know the other two fans are eating.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Well, there are gluttons for and I think they're.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
All ending in the same week too.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
I hope Alien Earth doesn't end. That's like one show
that it's been a long time to see a show
like this where I get angry when the credits.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Roll and they end on a cliffhanger.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah they do.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, I read an interview. If I wad someone talk
about the interview, So I guess I don't know about
the guy who made that show that he wanted to
have every episode I had a huge cliffhanger. He likes that.
He liked thing.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
But it is. It's so good. It's such a great show.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Anyone out there, I'm thinking, like, oh, it's gonna be
a few episodes we see before we see.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Nope, the one.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Too much, that's like the first scene.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Any listeners out there like the Alien franchise, like those xenomorphs,
like those chest bursters and face huggers, you got to
check out.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
I also like New Species too, that that's really cool.
That cat was cool, the kid, the eyeball guy, Yeah,
good call.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
I was. I was stressed outcause I'm like, man, my
life's been really boring the last month but yeah, but
you came up with some good things.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well I don't know one of the more universal than
the other.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
But yeah, well we're drinking like usual before we get
into the actual topic. Yeah, drinking here. So this one's
this one's interesting. I've been need to give this to
you since like May, and I always forget when you
come over. But this is a bottle my wife got
me for my birthday in May. It's called Von payin Black, Okay,
and it's this. This is a whiskey infused with black

(10:13):
currant and it's kind of like a dark grape tart, cranberry, BlackBerry,
raspberry kind of flavor, earthy kind of flavor.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, it's like a Gothic sweet whiskey.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yes. Now, what's really cool about this bottle is I
should maybe I'll maybe put a picture of this on
our Instagram or something. But we we came across this
in New Orleans. We're at a vampire bar and there's
this dope looking bottle sitting on the shelf and it's
kind of this kind of a squat roundish kind of
bottle with this glaring silver gargoyle on the label and

(10:49):
it says von Payne Black and I'm like, oh, what
is that? And the bartunder came over, she grabbed the
bottle and she put on this lid poorer right, yeah,
And the is a metal gargoyle, right, So when you tip.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
This thing over, it goes through the mouth the red
and it looks like blood red too when you like
look at a certain light of it. Yes, kind of cool.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
And so that blood red colored whiskey comes out of
the gargoyle's mouth. I mean, I got to have this.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Something super granular. Have you seen the Crow? I know
you've seen the Crow? Yeah, the Nighties crowl of course,
and there's a scene where he kills spoilers for a
thirty five year old movie when he kills the main
bad guy, you know, kills him on the top of
that church, that gothic church, and the way he kills
him is he drops them and he lands like the
bad guy lands on a gargle statue, and that gargo

(11:39):
has an open mouth, like a snarling mouth, and his
blood is coming out of the mouth. And that's what
I imagined when you poured my drink today. That is
perfet That was like, yeah, that was like was my
quick flash of that's all I forgot about that. Now
it's in you. Right, that's good. That's what I want.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, so great connection there. That's what I'm gonna see
when I look at this bad boy all the time.
But do you like it? What do you do?

Speaker 1 (12:05):
I do like the whiskey, I would say, I like
the bottle and the top probably more than natural whiskey. Yeah,
I could, but nothing. It's just so unique. And there's
a name for this type of shape. I can't remember
the name of it, but I love the top.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
I was like, is that an apple and like, no,
that's a stopper. I'm like, oh shit, Oh.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, the little red stopper goes in the gargo's mouth. Yeah,
that's to keep like fruit flies.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
And ship I get it.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah, I get So that's what we're drinking.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
And it's it's cool. It's like it's like sweet but
also tries to burn. You just talk about.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
If I didn't say, it's just like a vampire, just
like a vampire with yeah, you know little score.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Or that one actually all know, right exactly And if
you can't think of one, then it was you nice.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
So yeah, so that's that's if I didn't say it's
ninety proof. Did I say that already? No, okay, ninety proof.
So it's not uh, it's not gonna put hair on
your chest, but it kicks a little bit. Yeah right, yeah,
all right, Oscar. Tonight we have an interesting show. M hm.
We have a frightening urban legend that came terrifyingly true.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
So I love this already. You mentioned urban legend to me.
I don't know what we're talking about, folks, by the way,
he mentioned the name, but I don't know who it
is or what it is. It's been a long time,
long times as we kind of tackled on an urban legend.
It has I know, we had our discussion a long
time ago about urban legends in general, but beyond that
and the occasional Slenderman type, we haven't really delta with

(13:40):
any urban legend.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
It's been a long time anyway, and it's time we're
due for one. That's kind of cool we're having.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
In our Slenderman episode. That's the that's kind of the
only one. I can really think of.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
That to me too, Yeah, all right, yeah, we do,
we do NeSSI is that a urban legend? No, no is
Mathman considered urban lend.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Such big like they've been done so many times.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
I guess, so you know, more cryptids. Yeah right, that's
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Some might say urban legend as well, but I mean
they're at the core of cryptid cryptid stories.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
But yeah, we didn't we do bloody Mary or a Mary?
Didn we do? Not like that? No, I meant the
more innocent than you're thinking now. I met, like, did
we talk about a Mary that was an urban legend?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Maybe Chicago it was resurrection Mary, Thank you?

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Was that was that considered a neurber legend?

Speaker 3 (14:35):
I would say all.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
The urban legends are local, right, So like, okay, that's
another one we thought we've done so very few.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yeah, so very right. This is nice to bring one back,
come back to the old legends. And this is a
good one because it turns true.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
I can't wait to see how it plays that anyway,
we should proably take a brick.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
You want to take a brick, let's do it. Listeners,

(15:22):
welcome back to the show. Well, the lights are turned
down low, the ceremonial candle is lit, and the drinks
are flowing. Let's start this show. For decades Oscar decades
the name Cropsy slithered through the streets of Staten Island,

(15:45):
New York, whispered in hush voices among children and teenagers.
A faceless man, a terror, lurking in the woods, waiting
to snatch up the unsuspecting, the two trusting. Some say
he has a bloody hook for a hand. Others claim
he wields an axe, ready to butcher reckless teens caught

(16:07):
making out in the dark. Every town has a monster,
an urban legend like this. In the Chicagoland area, the
man with the bloody hook for a hand stalks the
road leading to the infamous Bachelor Grove cemetery.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Billy, I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Oh yeah, that's one of them.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
But Cropsy, he wasn't just a story to keep kids
from straying too far from the safety of their homes.
Because in Staten Island, children really did start to disappear.
And that's when the silly urban legend turned into real
life horror. You see, Cropsy wasn't just a tale meant
to scare. It was a warning. And by the time

(16:50):
people realized the truth, it was already too late. The
legend had become horrifyingly real. Now at the oar to
Staten Island, one of New York's five boroughs, lies the
Green Belt, a sprawling twenty five hundred acre wilderness of
dense forests, murky swamps, and overgrown fields. A place of

(17:14):
untamed beauty, but also a place with a dark past,
because surrounding this vast wilderness stood the remains of something
far more sinister, forgotten institutions with histories soaked and suffering.
There was the Seaview Hospital in Tuberculosis Tuberculosis Ward, built

(17:35):
in nineteen thirteen to house the poor souls suffering from
the White plague. There was a New York City farm colony,
a poorhouse dating back to nineteen oh two, and of course,
the infamous Willoughbrook State School, an institution that would become
a horror story all on its own. Not far away,

(17:57):
the dead found their final resting place in the historic
Moravian Cemetery, which bakes date back to seventeen forty and
were some of the wealthiest figures in American history, including
members of the Vanderbilt family and crime boss Paul Castellano,
are buried. But the dead were not the only ones
lingering in this forsaken place, because Beneath the crumbling ruins

(18:20):
of these forgotten institutions ran a maze of underground passages
that only added to the Greenbelt's eerie reputation. Some say
these tunnels connected the Willowbrook State School to other abandoned buildings,
acting like service tunnels, while others believed the tunnels were
used for something far darker. For years, the ruins of

(18:43):
Willowbrook School and the surrounding woods became the setting of
Staten Island's most terrifying urban legend, Cropsy, a deranged figure
who lived in the green Belt shadows, stalking children who
strayed too far into the woods. But as will soon see,
this was more than just a ghost story, because while

(19:03):
kids whispered about Cropsy around campfires, someone or something was
lurking in those woods, waiting, and by the time Staten
Islanders realized the truth, it was already too late. Now.
Like most urban legends, the legend of Cropsy has no
single origin we could call upon. Some say the story

(19:27):
of Cropsy began in the nineteen seventies at a summer
camp in Staten Island, where campfire stories of an ordinary
man turned vengeful figure emerged. His past often tied to
a tragic fire, a lost family, or a descent into madness,
and the man's name by George Cropsy. Of course, over

(19:49):
the years, the tale evolved morphing morphing, with each retelling
into something even darker. But while most urban legends fade
into fiction, became terrifyingly real. Now a legend of Cropsy,
or the Pied Piper of Staten Island, as this maniac
is sometimes called, has long been part of Staten Island folklore.

(20:13):
In another version of the story, Cropsy was instead either
a caretaker or a former patient of Willowbrook State School,
a notorious institution for children with disabilities that was shut
down in nineteen eighty seven due to widespread abuse. As
the legend goes, after Willibrook was shut down and Cropsy
subsequently released, he took refuge in the woods, the green Belt,

(20:37):
and the tunnels surrounding the abandoned school, only emerging to
abduct and murder wayward children. Now, when we look at
the story of Cropsy, we really have two things coalescing
into a great urban legend. On one hand, we have
this maniac mental patient lurking on the grounds of an
abandoned school, waiting to abduct children. If that isn't enough,

(21:01):
we have the very real abandoned remains of the Willowbrook
School itself and the Green Belt, which are really two
additional monsters in the story of Cropsy you see. Willibrook
became infamous as one of the worst cases of institutional
abuse in American history. Originally opened in nineteen forty seven

(21:21):
to house children with developmental disabilities, it quickly deteriorated into
an overcrowded, neglected, and abusive facility. By the nineteen sixty
more than six thousand residents lived in horrific conditions, many
left naked, filthy, malnourished, and unattended for days. In fact,

(21:43):
back in nineteen sixty five, Robert F. Kennedy called Willibrook
a quote snake pit. Reports detailed children locked in rooms
without food, living in their own waste, and suffering from
untreated medical conditions. If any place has ghosts and demons,
it was the Willobrook School. In fact, national attention turned

(22:06):
to Willabrook in nineteen seventy two when journalist Heraldo Rivera
had an undercover expose that revealed the shocking neglect inside.
His report, which aired on WABCTV, showed haunting footage of
children rocking back and forth, covered in filth and screaming
for help, exposing the institution's systemic cruelty. And you could

(22:30):
still find this expose online, but I warn you you
won't be able to unsee the poor, severely mentally challenged
kids and the abuse and the deplorable conditions they lived in.
It's heart wrenching. And actually Heraldo, who a lot of
people make fun of as a joke and yellow journalist,

(22:50):
he won a Peabody Award and the John F. Kennedy
Journalism Award for his work in exposing the atrocities happening
at Willobrook.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, I know he definitely like Is that those kind
of reminding of Sean Penn? No, not Champanga and women?
Thinking of who plays veto Mammy and Michael Corleoni I
think his name, No Michael, Oh my god, Pacino? Sorry
I was for some reason. No, they're not the same.
Who's that reminds me of a Pacino? Before scent of

(23:19):
a woman? He was serious after a set of a woman.
It's kind of a joke, but he still had that respectability. Yeah, yeah,
for sure, like on that seriousness of respectability, crazy roles,
not just the Godfather but panic in Needle Park or whatever.
And you know circcle and then we get to Hua,
right and uh and you know kind of became he
played the double and you saw how he played it.

(23:41):
He saw heat. I mean, yeah, we love Heat. But
he is ridiculous in that ship movie. Like he's playing
almost like a jokey version of himself. That's what happened
with Heraldo. But he had his But he got the
chops though, and seventy two that was early enough where
like he was getting his This was his pre Hua face.
That's what I'm trying to say.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Very good. So yes he was. He was a journalist then, yes,
trying to do good things. Then he turned into kind
of this sea and he got money.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I could get this a lot more if I just
kind of crazy. Oh yeah, okay, do.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
You remember al Capone's vault, right? I mean yes, I did.
Everyone to look up Horablo Ribera al Capone's vault. I
was sitting on the I was I couldn't have been
more than like fifteen or something. I was whatever. Yeah,
I was sitting on the edge of my seat. Man
I'm like, this is it. They're gonna find boys and
guns and money. Jack shit. Fuck all they found there was.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
A guy named jack Shit. It was a poor guy.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Look it up. It's a hilarious story. But yeah, he
did good at that. And you could still find video
and I watched some of it and I just had
to stop. It's fucking horrible. This is the Willowbrook State School.
This is part of this story, right, But you know,
beyond patient neglect, Willabrook was also the site of controversial
medical experiments throughout the fifties and sixties. Yeah, researchers intentionally

(24:58):
infected children with hepatiti to study the disease of progression
without any consent from their families. Not that the families
would consent to it, but families had no idea this
was going on. Their kids were supposed to be getting better.
Place was fucking terrible. So public outrage following Raaldo's investigation,
of course, led to lawsuits and eventually Willowbrook's closure in

(25:19):
nineteen eighty seven. Nineteen eighty seven, the scandal became a
turning point in disability rights, sparking reforms in the care
of individuals with developmental disabilities. Something Moroldo did that was
actually positive, not gross and exploitative. You know. So, after
its closure in eighty seven, Willowbrook patients, many of whom

(25:40):
had spent their entire lives inside its walls, were basically
left to fend for themselves. Some found homes, others didn't.
Rumors spread of former patients living in the green Belt,
the woods surrounding Willowbrook, surviving in makeshift encampments, among the ruins,
the ruins of their former prison, And among them was

(26:02):
a man named Andre Rand, a former Willobrook custodian and
orderly who never truly left after Willowbrook's closure. Andre Rand
wasn't just a drifter. He wasn't just a man down
on his luck. Because in the years that followed, children
started disappearing, and when the police finally tracked down the

(26:23):
man behind it all, they realized Staten Island's Boogeyman had
been real all along, and that the abandoned buildings, the
tunnels underneath Willowbrook, and the green Belt had all become
a villain's layer, where monsters lurked and were myth and
reality mixed into something truly awful. Remember, this isn't no

(26:43):
it's no longer an urban legend. This shit is real now.
The legend of cropsy punched a hole into reality when
kids and adults really started to go missing. Between nineteen
seventy two and nineteen eighty seven, several Staten Island children
and adults vanished without a train, including Jennifer Schweiger, a
twelve year old girl at down Srendrome. Jennifer's body was

(27:07):
later discovered buried in a shallow grave in the green
belt near Willowbrook, very near to where Andre Rand was
keeping camp. And we'll get into all the tragic details
of Jennifer's aduction and murder here in a bit. But first,
who was Andre Rand, the real cropsy or the Pied
Piper of Staten Island as he's sometimes called.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Now.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
Unfortunately, not much is known about Rand's early years. He
was born Frank Rostom Russian, ru Sha n Russian or
Russan Russian on March eleventh, nineteen forty four, in New
York City. There's no indication of physical or sexual abuse
in his childhood, no indication that he did particularly one

(27:49):
way or another in school, good or bad. But a
lot of articles talk about his early life being marred
by tragedy when his father died when he was just fourteen,
and his mother was soon committed to a psychiatric center,
and Frank Russian spent a good portion of his formative
years in that institution, visiting his mother, sitting among the

(28:09):
patients and the what's that.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
That's a pretty big that's a pretty big thing, pretty
big background.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Important, especially at that time of your life.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
I mean especially, I mean based on what you're going
to go with.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, right, exactly exactly. And you know, conditions back then,
isn't weren't like they are today.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
I wonder if you know this connects to you know,
the serial killers, you know that whole mentality, mentality of
they like to go home to that they like familiar
places when it comes to either hunting or post hunting.
Great points like that, this became this kind of mental facilities,
maybe became his familiar place kind as comfort zone. Comfort
zone grew in as as his pension to do evil,

(28:50):
you know, so.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
To speaking point right, yep, yeah, And like I said,
you know, the institutions back then not like they are
today with all the regulations and oversight, just as we
saw with Willowbrook. So imagine him being at those formative years.
I think he had a sister too, they were at
their formative years, sitting in this institution, probably among some
pretty messed up individuals. Having to see that all the time,

(29:13):
you know, while you're trying to be with your mother,
it's got to be hard on the psyche. In other words,
between nineteen sixty six and sixty eight, Russian worked at
the Willowbrook State School, a fact the legend of cropsy
actually got right. And after serving sixteen months in prison
for the kidnapping and attempted rape of a nine year
old girl in the South Bronx, he legally changed his

(29:35):
name to Andre Rand in January of nineteen seventy two.
And that's all I could really find on Andre Rand's
background that in his criminal record. You see, Rand's troubling
history began long before he became a household name on
Staten Island. In nineteen sixty nine, he was arrested for
attempting to rape that nine year old girl in the
Bronx I just mentioned. Literally, he had her clothes off,

(29:59):
he was in a state of undress, but thankfully a
passing police officer stopped the whole shit, and Ron Rand
caught that sixteen month stretch in prison, and over the
next two decades his criminal record grew and included accusations
of raping a young woman and a fifteen year old girl,
though no charges were filed. That was in seventy nine,

(30:22):
attempting to lure another nine year old girl into his
car with candy, but she managed to escape, thank god.
In nineteen eighty one, and this is a really weird one,
in eighty three, while Rand was working as a school
bus driver, probably the fucking last thing something like this
guy should be doing, Rand committed a mass kidnapping. He

(30:43):
picked up eleven children from Staten Island, YMCA without parental consent,
and for reasons unknown, drove the kids to Newark Liberty
International Airport.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
To nork Hey.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Then he took them all for burgers bout of the airport,
and then he high tailed them for burgers. The details
of his intentions remain unclear, but for whatever Ran had planned,
he never got the chance to carry it out. When
things didn't go as expected, Rand reportedly brought the children
back to his camp in the Green Belt, where they
played a late night game of hide and seek, a

(31:19):
really eerie detail given what we know about him now,
and he was eventually arrested. Kids were all unharmed, but
he was eventually arrested and served ten months in jail
for an unlawful imprisonment, and to this day, no one knows.
He never said what he was up to with this
mass abduction, why he did it, what he was planning.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Do you have any theories?

Speaker 3 (31:38):
I do?

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Okay? I mean, does this spoil something and either I
think he does. Okay, then forget it.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
I'll mention it. Then let me don't let me forget
I kind of it's just a crazy theory. I have
no idea if it's true, but it's something.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
I mean, but I want to wait.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Do you want to wait? Okay? So that's a crazy one. Now,
as I mentioned, between seventy two and eighty seven, Staten
Island was haunted by a series of mist vanishings, each
more unsettling than the last. Now the following our crimes,
Rand or Cropsy is believed to have committed. Okay, So
here we're going to go through the victims. What's thought

(32:13):
to be Rand's first victim was a five year old
girl named Alice Pereira, who vanished on July seventh, nineteen
seventy two. On a warm summer afternoon, five year old
Alice Perera skipped through the lobby of her Staten Island
apartment complex, the Tyson's Lane Apartments, her laughter echoing off
the walls. By nightfall, she was gone, vanished without a trace.

(32:39):
When she was last seen, Alice was playing with her
brother Eddie in her apartment complex's lobby At three thirty pm.
Eddie ran upstairs for just a moment. When he came back,
Alice had disappeared. By six point fifteen that night, her
frantic mother reported her missing, but it was too late.
Alice had been swallowed by the shadows, never to be

(33:01):
seen again. Neighbors claimed they saw in a nearby park,
just blocks from her apartment in Staten Island's New Dorp neighborhood,
but after that the trail went cold. There was no body,
no witnesses, and no answers. At the time, no one
knew that a predator was lurking nearby. A painter working

(33:21):
in the Tyson's Lane apartments, a drifter with a disturbing past,
A man whose name would one day become synonymous with horror.
Andre Rand Cropsy decades later, when Rand was arrested for
kidnapping of multiple children in investigators turned their gaze back
to Alice's case. The pieces of a terrifying puzzle began

(33:43):
to emerge. Rand worked in Alice's building at the time
of her disappearance. He had a pattern of abducting young girls,
many of whom were never seen again, and Alice matched
the profile of his later victims. Small, young, trust and
unable to fight back. Though police initially suspected Alice's father,

(34:06):
a divorced man with no alibi, he was ultimately ruled out.
That left one chilling question. Was Alice the first victim
of Staaten Island's real life boogeyman. Alice's mother never stopped searching,
holding onto hope that one day her daughter would come home.
But as the years passed and more children vanished, that
hope turned to despair. Alice's fate remains unknown, a whisper

(34:31):
in the wind, a shadow in the dark, a name
lost to time. Some believed she met the same grim
fate as Rand's other suspected victims. As long as the
mystery remains unsolved, the ghosts of Alice Pereira will forever
haunt Stattn Island.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Next.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
On an ordinary summer afternoon, on July fifth, nineteen seventy seven,
eighteen year old Audrey Lynn Nurenberg stepped out of her
family's home in Knar Brooklyn, heading just two blocks away
to buy a pack of cigarettes. She promised to return
home immediately, and she never did. Unlike most of Andrea's

(35:10):
ran suspected victims, young innocent children from public areas, Augie
was legally an adult, but she was also deeply vulnerable,
suffering from hbophrenic schizophrenia hebefrenic schizophrenia. She struggled with disorganized thinking,
erratic behavior, and emotional detachment. Between nineteen seventy four and

(35:33):
seventy seven, she had been in and out of psychiatric institutions,
including Kingsboro Psychiatric Center, where she was an outpatient at
the time of her disappearance. In those early days, police
believed she had simply wandered off her illness, pulling her
to God knows where. But as time passed, a far
more sinister possibility emerged, one that pointed straight to Staten

(35:57):
Island's most feared predator. The night before before she vanished,
Audrey had been on Staten Island. Her family had taken
her to see a movie at the Jerry Lewis Theater
on Forest Avenue, a place now lost time but was
once a neighborhood staple. It was also a place that
Andre Ran knew well. Ran had been living nearby in
a makeshift campsite in the green Belt, not far from

(36:20):
the theater. Did he see Andrey that night? Did he
follow her back to Brooklyn? The pieces of the puzzle
are frightening. Ran had a history of crossing New York
boroughs in search of victims. He specifically preyed on the young,
the disabled, and the lost. Audrey fit this pattern perfectly. Then,
on July fifth, she was gone, without a trace, No screams,

(36:42):
no witnesses, no struggle, just an empty street and an
unanswered question. What happened to Audrey Lynn Nuremberg. While the
police dismissed her case, her father, Howard never did. Howard
Nurrenberg spent the rest of his life searching for Audrey.
He plastered missing person flyers across New York. He knocked

(37:03):
on every door, chased down every lead, but the world
moved on. The media ignored her story, and without evidence
of a crime authorities refused to act. Decades passed and
her name faded, But when Andrea Ran was finally convicted
of multiple kidnappings, her case resurfaced like a ghost from
the past. Rand had been spotting lurking near the theater

(37:27):
Audrey visited that night, and he had a documented history
of preying on the mentally ill, and without a body,
without proof, he was never charged in Audrey's disappearance. For
Audrey's father, his daughter was never just a statistic She
was his daughter, his life, his light, his unfinished story.

(37:48):
But he died never knowing the truth, and to this day,
no trace of Audrey has ever been found. No confessions,
no sightings, just a name, a face, and a lingering question.
Did Staten Island's pied Piper take her too now? On
October twenty fourth, nineteen seventy eight, forty two year old

(38:10):
Ethel Louise Atwell vanished from the parking lot of the
Willowbrook State School, where she worked as a physical therapy assistant.
Unlike Andre Rand's other suspected victims, primarily young girls, Ethel
was a full fledged adult, Yet her disappearance bored terrifying
similarities to the abduction's linked to the Staten Island predator.

(38:32):
At around six am, Ethel arrived at Willowbrook for her shift.
Before she could reach the building, something horrific unfolded. Nearby.
Employees heard a struggle. A man's voice urged come on,
come on, and Ethel's terrified voice replied, no, you'll beat me.
Then came a blood curdling scream. By the time police arrived,

(38:54):
Ethel was gone. Her lock car remained in the parking lot,
but her belongings were scattered nearby, pointing to a violent abduction.
Authorities found her tan pocketbook, a single black shoe, one earring,
three black coat buttons, part of her dentures, and about
seventy five feet into the green belt, investigators discover her

(39:16):
car keys, suggesting she had been dragged or chased into
the trees. Despite a thorough search, no further evidence emerged.
Ethel Atwell had vanished without a trace. Her disappearance bore
eerie similarities to another case just a month earlier, the
murder of Shin Lee, a Willowbrook nurse found strangled and

(39:37):
buried in a shallow grave near the facility. Authorities began
to question whether a predator was targeting Willowbrook employees, specifically,
when land Rand was later linked to multiple kidnappings in
the area, investigators strongly suspected his involvement in both cases.
At the time of Ethel's disappearance, Ran lived near Willowbrook

(39:57):
School and was known for praying on the vulnerable, not
just children, but anyone he saw is weak, and he
was later discovered camping in the Weird Woods near the
exact spot where Eppel's belongings were found. Yet with no
physical evidence, Rand was never charged in connection with their
disappearance or in Shinley's murder, and to this day, Ethel
Louise Atwell's body has never been found. Her family and

(40:21):
friends were left with only haunting questions. Was she another
victim of Andre Rand? Was there another predator stalking the
grounds of Wollabrook The mystery remains unsolved. There was the
July fifteenth, nineteen eighty one disappearance of seven year old
Holly Anne Hughes, just seven years old. This was the

(40:42):
case that ensured Andre Rand would never walk free. On
July fifteenth, nineteen eighty one, seven year old Holly Ane
Hughes vanished from Staten Island in a case that would
haunt her community for decades. That evening, Holly's mother, Holly Cedarholm,
sent her daughter to the Court Richmond Delhi, just two
blocks up two blocks away, to buy a bar of

(41:04):
ivory soap. Around nine thirty pm. Witnesses saw Holly at
the store making that purchase, but she was never seen again.
As police launched an immediate search, witness reports began to surface.
Multiple people saw Holly being pulled into a green Volkswagon
near the deli. Andre Rand owned a green Volkswagon. Others

(41:28):
resported seeing the Volkswagen circling the area that night. One
witness claims to have seen Rand inside the car with Holly,
and Rand later admitted to giving Holly money for that
soap because he said she was filthy, but he insisted
he left her unharmed. And again, despite these disturbing accounts,

(41:48):
with no physical evidence or body, Rand was not immediately arrested,
but authorities remained convinced Holly had fallen victim to the
pied Piper of Staten Island. Now a month later, Holly's
mother received a horrifying phone call. The caller, identifying himself
as Sal claimed to have Holly he was holding her,

(42:10):
and he made a sickening demand if her mother met
him and performed sexual acts on camera, he would return
her daughter safely. Terrified, of course, Holly's mother alerted police,
who set up a sting operation at Penn Station in Manhattan,
but the mysterious Sal never showed. Though she doubted the

(42:30):
caller actually had Holly, the mother remained certain Rand was
responsible for her daughter's disappearance, and for decades the case
went cold. Then in two thousand and one, investigators reopened
the case with new witness testimony and forensic evidence, uncovering
even more links to Rand. Turns out Rand's aunt lived

(42:50):
in the same apartment building as Holly's family, meaning he
likely knew her and her family and the die of routines.
Holly's mother wound up identifying rand voice as the man
who called and identified himself as Sal. She said the
voice was matched, so he was That's what That's what
she's thinks. Yeah, And even more eyewitnesses step forward confirming

(43:11):
seeing Holly in Rand's Volkswagon that night she disappeared. Now,
with this new evidence, Ran was finally charged with kidnapping
Hollyanne Hughes more than twenty years after she vanished. In
October two thousand and four, a jury convicted him of
first degree kidnapping, sentencing him to another twenty five years
to life, his second life sentence, the first being doled

(43:35):
out for a young handicap girl. We'll talk about here shortly,
and understand I'm trying to go chronologically through the victims here, Okay. Now.
Despite the conviction, Rand was never charged with Holly's murder.
Her body was never found, leaving her family without the
closure they desperately needed. Though justice was kind of served,

(43:56):
Hollyanne Hughes remains officially listed as a missing person. My
mother never was able to lay her daughter to rest.
On August fourteenth, nineteen eighty three, eleven year old Tyist
Jackson left the Mariner's Harbor Motel on Forest Avenue in
Staten Island to run a simple errand buy some chicken

(44:16):
wings from a nearby store. She never came back. She
was walking in broad daylight and only a short distance.
Then she was gone, with no body, no confirmed sightings,
and few clues. Her case remains one of Staten Island's
most haunting mysteries. Tyist was staying at the Mariner's Harbor
Motel with her mother and relatives. Around one thirty PM,

(44:40):
while her mother was asleep, another resident asked Tyist to
pick up food from Crowned Supermarket on Richmond Avenue. Those
chicken wings just a short walk away, and by four
thirty PM, when her mother woke up and realized her
daughter hadn't returned, panic set in. She called the police
and a frantic search began. Investigators quickly ruled out family involvement,

(45:01):
as both Tys's mother and her uncle passed polygraph tests
and there was no evidence suggesting they played a role
in the littlego's disappearance. Instead, the focus turned to a
familiar name, Andre Rand. At the time, Rand was still
living in that Makeship Camp site less than half a
mile from Mariner's Harbor Motel in the Green Belt. Witnesses

(45:22):
reporting seeing a man matching Rand's description loitering near the
motel parking lot around the time Tyes vanished. The circumstances
mirrored a terrifying pattern in Rand's suspected crimes. He often
stalked locations where vulnerable children were present. He had a
history of luring kids under seemingly harmless pretenses before transporting

(45:43):
them to remote areas, often near Willowbrook or his known
encampments in the Green Belt, where they were never seen again.
Tyse was never located. There was no physical evidence, no
confirmed witnesses, and no crime scene, just an eleven year
old girl who vanished into thin aired. Though Rand was
never charged in Tyus's case, authorities strongly suspect he was involved.

(46:04):
Some theories suggest that Rand lured away and disposed of
her body in an undiscovered location somewhere in Staten Island's woods,
possibly near Willowbrook. Another theory, which we'll get into here
in a bit, suggests Rand had accomplices other transients are drifters,
or he belonged to a particular cult we've discussed on

(46:24):
this show before who helped him cover his tracks. And
to this day, just like the others, Tays remains missing.
She's one of Staten Island's lost children, part of a
chilling legacy of unanswered questions and unresolved grief for her mother.
The years had passed with no closure, only an aching
void where her daughter's future should have been. Was Tys,

(46:47):
another victim of Andrea Rand claimed in the same way
as so many others, or does the truth lie buried
in Staten Island's dark history and even darker forests. One
thing is certain. Until her fate is known, the mystery
you have tyst Jackson will continue to haunt those who
remember the horrors of the Cropsy legend. Now, thankfully we

(47:07):
are getting to the end of the victim list. Here
we have two more to get through. Among the many
disturbing cases tied to Andre Rand, one name often fades
into the shadows. Hank Gafforio.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Oh because of the man.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yeah, yeah, an older male. People said Hank looked just
like Mick Jagger. Now, listeners, make sure and check your
show notes. There's a lot of photos there. Check out
the one.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Does they have the move that Jagger?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Oh yeah, I'm gonna take a sip too. He kind
of does look like he kind of does look like
you mc jagger.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Okay, how buy it?

Speaker 3 (47:43):
The pictures of the victims, picture of Andre Rand, It's
all in the show notes, So check him out. Now.
Hank was twenty two years old when he vanished on
June eighth, nineteen eighty four. Now, Hank was intellectually disabled,
and he had a very childlike demeanor, making him particularly
vulnerable raising the question did andre Ran see Hank as

(48:04):
just another easy target. You see, Hank was well known
around Staten Island's Port Richmond neighborhood. Friendly but considered slow witted.
Hank had an IQ in the seventies, making him functionally
similar to a very young child. He still lived at
home with his parents and three brothers on Heberton Avenue,
just around the corner from one of Andre Rand's former residences.

(48:26):
This fucking guy gets around a.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Lot, he does. You know, it's a lot of hard
to work, a lot of foot traffic at a lot
of walking for a serial killer.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
These boots are made for it and just gross green Volkswagon.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
You have to be fit, and you have to be active.
You have to be a jedig. You have to talk
to people sometimes. Yeah, right, all the time. Maybe it's
hard to work. I don't want to do it. I'm late,
I'm fucking tired.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Safe around me because I'm always tired. I'm lazy.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
I'm like, I'm tired of just listing the stuff this
guy had to.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Do right to do this shit dedication to the job. Yeah,
Despite his cognitive challenges, Hank was a social guy. He
liked hanging out at bars, where regular patrons often looked
after him, kind of like their own kid, and Hank
followed a routine, one that tragically would be broken. The

(49:16):
night he disappeared. On July seventh, nineteen eighty four, Hank
went out drinking in Port Richmond, his neighborhood. He stopped
first at mugs Away. That is such a fucking Staten
Island name for a bar, mugs Away. Yeah, and he
was refused service because I think he was already intoxicated
when he showed up. But undeterned, undeterred our Hank, he

(49:38):
moved on to another bar, the Spa Lounge. That's another
shitty sounded bar, to the Spa Lounge of Staten Island,
where he stayed until closing time at four am. What
happened next remains a mystery. Witnesses last saw Hank at
a diner, sitting in the company of Andre Rand. That
was the last time anyone ever seen him alive. By

(50:00):
seven pm on June eighth, his family reported a missing
Unlike the cases of young children, Hank's disappearance didn't trigger
an immediate large scale search. Some just assumed he simply
wandered off or taken an unannounced trip, but his family
knew something was wrong. Hank never failed to come home
after a night out.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Probably had some structure that was peice.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
There's that pattern, y yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Pattern.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
As days passed with no signs of Hank, authorities turned
their attention to Andre Rand. Given his history and his
confirmed presence with Hank that night, investigators uncovered disturbing connections.
Rand lived just blocks away from Hank's home in Port Richmond,
and there was his pattern of targeting the vulnerable, and
though an adult, Hank's cognitive function made him as defenseless

(50:47):
as a child. Plus, multiple witness confirmed seeing Hank with
Rand in the early morning hours before he disappeared. I mean,
how much fucking how much guilty could you get here?
And despite all these links, authorities lack physical evidence to
charge Rand with anything. Nobody, no clothing, no personal belongings,
nothing right. Most of Rand's suspective victims were young children,

(51:11):
so why would he abduct this twenty two year old man.
Investigators and experts think that Rand may have viewed Hank
as childlike, making him an easy to manipulate, an easy target,
much like the children he allegedly prayed on.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
So I feel like that does that play into the
fantasy of the serial killer, like, like what is his purpose?
Like there are some some kill the serial killers that
kill out of necessity, some kill out of the thrill, right,
And sometimes that doesn't matter the victim type. They're usually

(51:47):
the opposite gender, usually within the fantasy, usually a woman.
For these reasons, if you're a man, you're gonna kill
someone that you're attracted to, they tend to be women.
So this guy, this, this part this guy is different.
I mean, this particular victim is way different from the
thing because if he's in it for the killing, but
he seems to be in it for a very specific

(52:08):
type of victim, it does still feel like this is
a wrench this Hank Hank ki.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Right, Well, it could be his mental state, right.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Well, That's what I was gonna say, Like is that
what gets is that.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
It could be that or like some speculate he may
have unknowingly learned too much Hank about Rand's dark side,
leading Ran to eliminate him as a potential threat Like.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Those too logical. I feel like I feel like the
reason it because he's mentally challenged, that he's easier to
manipulate is too much of a logical response.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Well, and that's what a lot of people say. But
others think Rand wanted to rid the world of those
he saw as weak and damaged.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Okay, maybe they're something fucking crazy, yeah, like that.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Those other kids, Now, yeah, I'm not saying it's right,
it's fucking crazy, right, but those other kids, ecept for
one we're.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
About to talk about.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Wrong with those kids, they weren't They were poor, most
of them, he said. The one was dirty, so but
not damaged like Hank in his mind. Damage, right, I
don't know. I do have another theory of children. Yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
I don't know either. And he never really said he
doesn't talk about this stuff because he is still alive, Okay,
but either way, Hank Cathorio disappeared without a trace, never found,
and his case has often been overshadowed by the more
high profile child disappearances. But for his family, the pain
is just as devastating, and to this day, many believe

(53:44):
Rand the Pied Piper Cropsy, was responsible for Hank's fate,
but without the evidence, the case remains officially unsolved. Until
that day comes, Hank's ghost will haunt Staten Island. Finally
that we know of anyway, we have the July ninth,
nineteen eighty seven abduction and murder of twelve year old

(54:06):
Jennifer Schweiger. This is this is fucked up. Not that
the other ones weren't, but this one gets this one
gets me now. Jennifer's murder was the case that finally
brought Ran to justice. Schweiger got him caught, and as
I mentioned earlier, the case of seven year old Hollyanne
Hughes ensured Rand wouldn't walk free again. Okay, So, on

(54:28):
July ninth, nineteen eighty seven, twelve year old Jennifer Schweiger,
a girl with Down syndrome, left her home in Westerly
Staten Island went for a walk. Jennifer was well known
in her neighborhood. She was friendly, trusting, independent, sadly, qualities
that made her an easy target. On that day, she

(54:48):
innotantly went for a walk, but she never returned home.
Jennifer's disappearance immediately set off alarm bells. Her family and
local volunteers launched an urgent search, combing stat n Eye
streets and wooded areas. Witnesses soon came forward with a
chilling sighting. Jennifer had been seen walking hand in hand
with Andre Rand as he was living in those makeshift

(55:11):
camps near the abandoned Willowbrook State School at that time.
For weeks, volunteers, many of them friends and neighbors, searched tirelessly,
refusing to get up give up. Among them was a
man named George Kramer, a retired New York City firefighter,
who was determined to find Jennifer. On August twelfth, nineteen

(55:34):
eighty seven, thirty five days after she vanished, Kramer noticed
a small spat small patch of disturbed earth on the
Wollo Book grounds. Something about it felt wrong, so he
started digging. Beneath the dirt. Searchers uncovered Jennifer's naked body,
partially buried in that shallow grave. The discovery shattered the community,

(55:57):
confirming their worst fears. Jennifer had been abducted, murdered, and discarded. Now,
at the time of Jennifer's discovery, Andre Rand was already
in custody, arrested on trespassing charges while living on the
Wilbrook property. Once Jennifer's body was found near his encampment,
authorities wasted no time charging him with the kidnap and murder.

(56:20):
Ran denied any involvement, but the evidence painted a pretty
damning picture. Multiple witnesses saw him walking with Jennifer the
day she vanished. His campsite was near the burial site,
deep in the abandoned Willow Book grounds. And he had
that history of child abductions, tempted assaults and also dabductions.
Just like.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
His eyes were bigger than his stomach in one part
with the school bus.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
Right with the discovery of Jennifer's body, Andre Rand was
arrested in nineteen eighty seven. Now, his purp walk was
broadcast on live television, and there's a picture of this,
and it was one of the most bizarre that you've
ever seen. Two cops practically dragged him out of the
courthouse supporting his body. It was limp, His head was bobbing,

(57:11):
and a long string of drool hung from his slack mouth.
This was on the news. As they placed Rand in
the back of the police car, his head lulled to
the side, his wide eyes vacant give him this almost
catatonic look. Anyone watching the news that night would have
seen this disorientated, drooling figure and thought, oh, Yeah, that

(57:34):
guy's guilty. That's the face of someone who could hurt
a child.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Wait what about okay and I have the picture there No,
I'm sure. Yeah, listeners, listen to watch the show.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Notes.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
If you're driving, just fucking park right now and then
go into the details on your app and find the
picture very good exactly. Don't tact and drive anyway. Um. So,
when you were describing this the lamp, the jewel, him
having to be picked up, at first, I that it
was some petulant reaction to not wanting to do it

(58:09):
right right and not wanting to do what other people
are telling him, like get up movie or go there right,
which is the rest of his life by the way,
from that one, yes, and he was like kind of
like rebelling. And then you were mentioning further the limp
and the jewel, like, oh, maybe is he making fun
of like what we kind of see sometimes and mental
and like mentally establishing places places he visited with his

(58:31):
mom for his mom. I mean, like, is he is
he like making fun of them or something like copying
them in some way pretending to be insane maybe or
mentally challenged insane, you know, one of those. It could
be one of the other, like making fun of things
or not.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
And where would he have gotten that U charade? But
what about visiting the.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Right He's seen it a thousand times. I'm sure he
pull it up. Maybe he choked. Also that I was like,
it could be that. But the fact that you ended
all that description describing by saying that he looks like
he killed them, I don't to see how that translates.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
That's just that he looks like a lunatic. Oh yeah,
I get that death looks like to the normal person,
that's the killer. At that crazy bastard, I.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Because I don't immediately think of someone that looked catatonic
and jeweling would be a killer.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Yeah, no, this was the person being accused. Look at
that Oh okay, look at that spectacle that I.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Think I'm coming around. Okay, I think I was confused.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
So Rand was arrested and charged with the kidnapping of
Jennifer Schweger, but prosecutors faced a big obstacle. There was
no definitive forensic evidence proving Rand caused Jennifer's death. Without
a clear cause of death, the jury was enabled to
convict him of murder. Instead, he was convicted of first
degree kidnapping and sentenced to twenty five years to life,

(59:54):
becoming eligible for parole in two thousand and eight. Then
in two thousand and four, he was convicted of kidnapping
of Holly and Hughes, adding another twenty five years to
life to a sent nail nail in the coffin. Exactly, so, now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Age and his crumpet, Sorry I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
I don't know the b and his bonnet.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Yeah, that's much better, much better than mine.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Say that. Now he's eighty one. This guy, he remains
incarcerated at Fishkill Correctional Facility in Beacon, New York. Yeah,
fish Kill. He won't be eligible for parole until twenty
thirty seven. Yeah, so god when he'll be ninety three.
So basically he's he's in there for life. Three.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
What are you gonna do if he makes it out?
What's doing?

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Exactly? But people believe he'll never walk free. Yeah. But yet,
while Rand sits behind bars, the legend of Cropsy lives on.
For some, it's a cautionary tale used to keep children
from straying too far or to curb teenage mischief. For others,
Rand is Staten Island's real life boogeyman Cropsy, a modern

(01:01:00):
day pied piper who preyed on the innocent? How many
children truly fell victim? Was Rand acting alone? And most
frightening at all? Could there still be others like him
lurking in the green belt waiting for the legend of
Cropsy to be reborn? So that's the legend of Cropsy,

(01:01:21):
the real life story of the pied Piper of Staten Island,
Andre Rand. He's old, he's behind bars, and that's probably
where he'll die. Good fuck that guy. But there is
something I'd like to talk about, though, and that's a
possible cult connection in the Staten Island child disappearances. Some
locals and investigators believe Andre Rand wasn't acting alone. His

(01:01:47):
erratic behavior, cryptic ramblings, and reported ties to satanic cults
fueled speculation that he was part of something far bigger
and far darker. Okay, Rumors swirled that the mists and
children were abducted for occult rituals, and Rand was merely
the foot soldier for a larger hidden evil. Now, while

(01:02:08):
these stories and these theories remained speculative, they persist in
the minds of many Staten Islanders. Who lived through this
cropsy nightmare. While though definitive proof links Ran to any
organized occult group, the whispers of ritualistic activity, strange coincidences,
and chilling urban legends continue to fuel speculation. One of

(01:02:32):
the most disturbing theories revolves around the abandoned tunnels beneath
Willbrook State School. These underground passages were rumored to be
used by not only homeless people and drifters, but possibly
occult practitioners. Some investigators claimed that strange symbols and signs
of ritualistic activity were discovered in these tunnels, many of

(01:02:53):
them near where Rand was known to stay. Anonymous sources
even suggested that Rand was part of a larger, secretive
group that used the ruins of Willbrook for child sacrifices
and dark rituals, and possibly even necrophilia. Another theory suggests
that Ran had ties to a notorious cult that we've

(01:03:13):
discussed on this podcast a few times, the Processed Church
or the Final Judgment remember them. No, we're talking about
these with like mansin and in our cult serial killer
web that I was trying to spend. Oh maybe racist Church.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Maybe it's coming back a little.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
Yeah, we talked about them quite a bit, and they
were really controversial, apocalyptic of teachings that were active in
the sixties and seventies. The Processed Church has been accused,
through though never proven, of ritual murders and influencing notorious
serial killers, including David Berkowitz, the son of Sam, and

(01:03:51):
Charles Manson. Do you remember this now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
A little bit? Okay, I still doesn't click, but I
believe I believe that we talked about it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Some believe that Rand's crimes overlapped with the cult timeline
and philosophy, though no definitive evidence has ever linked him
directly to the cult. The connection remained circumstantial at best,
but the timing and nature of his suspected crimes make
the very difficult to ignore and believe it or not.

(01:04:21):
Robert de Grimston, one of the founders of the Processed Church,
lived on Staten Island for years, although it said he
had already separated from the Processed Church by the time
he moved there, but still strange coincidence.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
Even though Rand never admitted to kidnapping or harming children, ever,
his cryptic statements only deepen the mystery. In prison, he
reportedly speaks of evil destiny and the power of darkness,
leading many to wonder if his motives were more than
just predatory. Fellow inmates claim that Rand believed he was
serving a higher purpose, though it remains un clear whether

(01:05:00):
this was a religious, occult or purely delusional belief. Adding
to the fear, Statenaan residents reported strange and unsettling discoveries
in the woods surrounding Willowbrook. Long after Rand was identified
and captured. Story surfaced of animal carcasses, candles arranged in circles,

(01:05:20):
and Satanic markings, leading to widespread speculation that an occult
group may have been operating in the area alongside Rand.
These reports were never officially verified, but were enough to
add fuel to the Satanic panic of the nineteen eighties,
further cementing the aerie legends surrounding Rand's name. Yet, for

(01:05:41):
all the terrifying connections, no solid proof has ever confirmed
that Rand was part of Satanic cult. There's no proof
of that. His crimes, though horrifying, appear to align more
with a lone predator than an organized occult network. Remember,
there's no proof that he actually killed anyone. Kidnapped, yes,
but murdered no. So where are the bodies. Where's Hank

(01:06:04):
Kafario or Little Alice Pereira or Audrey Nurnberg or ether
Atwell ethel Atwell or Hollyanne Hughes and Tyist Jackson. Where
are these bodies at now? Myself? I don't believe for
an instant Andrey Rand is some criminal mastermind. Yet these
victims were searched for time and again for there to

(01:06:25):
be no trace, no, absolutely no trace or remains of
a body, some clothing, nothing DNA. DNA became a thing
in nineteen eighty six. I mean, they found Jennifer Schweiger's
body near where Rand camped, but there was no evidence
he killed her, only kidnapped her. I don't think Rand
is that clever to be that clean in his crimes.
I think he had help. Maybe it was fellow Green

(01:06:48):
Belt dwellers people like Rand, that were displaced when Willibrook shuddered.
Or maybe he was a gatherer for something bigger, like
the Processed Church or some other cult for god knows
what purpose. Whatever the case, the mystery surrounding Rand's suspected
victims linger. Many of the children he was believed to
have adducted were never found. Their fate's unknown, their names

(01:07:12):
whispered in Staten Island's darkest corners. Whether Rand was a
solitary monster or the pawn of something even more sinister,
one thing remains certain. His story continues to haunt those
searching for answers, and it acts as a grim reminder
that sometimes the monsters under the bed are all too real.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Nice uh yeah, you know. Yeah. The lack of bodies,
it's pretty rare for circular. They usually leave a trail.
It's always bodies. They have to do something with them.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
I think you know that that scene that time when
he takes the bus.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Yes, yeah, let's talk about that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
It feels like it feels like a rush job. And
I mean job. I felt like something like it felt
like a like an errand yes to me, the way
you did an issue you described it, and that he
was going to go to the airport to give these
kids away. I don't know, I'm not saying I like
overseas or anything, but like somewhere or maybe trade them

(01:08:17):
there and someone from there will take the kids to
their flight, yeah or whatever. It looked like that to me.
And what looked like what it looked like is that
it fell through halfway He's like, all right, burgers, Okay,
let's get food. Let's get some burgers. I'm fucking hungry.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
But remember he went back to the Green Belt and
they played that night, late night game of hide and seek. Yeah, right,
So so you think it would have happened at the airport.
I can't account for the airport. That makes no sense
to me. I was thinking he was bringing them back
for some people in the Green Belt, maybe a cult.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Maybe maybe that could be the backup people like that. Yeah,
it could be a backup for like the group that
he was working with there, if you want to go
with it. I was thinking. I wasn't thinking cult necessarily,
but I was thinking something underground for sure. Yes, yeah,
maybe like the fell through it and then that was
the airport, and then the group that he knows of
it was for the hide thing, like it was the

(01:09:07):
hide and seek for that Wow. Maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:09:10):
Yeah. It's so it's interesting that we both thought it
was an errand of some sort. Yeah, like it's an
err yeah, a dark errand. Yes, such a crazy thing
and only to catch what did I say ten months
or something?

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah, sixteen months?

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):
I think that was.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Sixteen months and I assume you don't get that job again.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Yeah, bus driver, don't they do background checks? They do?

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Sure, I just don't know that, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:33):
That's what I'm saying, All this stuff, no oversight back then.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
You know, the more the more we go back in
time to tell these stories, the more like, man, there's
a we we we are sitting pretty on the on
the bodies of a lot of people to realize the
mistakes we didn't know. You know, like you know, there
there's a there's a law in Illinois. I think it's

(01:09:57):
called Scott's Law. It's some dumb name like that, Steve's
La dans la something like that, and it's based on
the law is basically that, uh, when there's a cop,
let's say I had to stop he's stopping someone on
the highway right in the cars in front of them
that have the lights on, you have to go one
lane over. Yeah, because Scott the name of the law

(01:10:22):
is a guy, a police officer that got killed because
the guy didn't slow down and didn't move one lane over.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
I wonder if that state or if that's a federal law.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
I don't know. I don't know if it's just Illinois,
if it's everywhere, but it's a law in Illinois, and
that that's on the blood of Scott, you know, that's
on the blood of the name of the person that's
on the law. And like how many of these are
like that's what it is, mental asylums, And I mean
they were called asylums. You know, they're not asylums anymore.

(01:10:49):
The medical facilities, clinic treatment facilities, that's what that's called.
You know, seems it's not just sound better, but it
is better. And how much of those suffering that we
have to go through to we never learned a lesson ever?
Right the right way? People have to die a lot.
You said that, you said that people complained in seventy two.

(01:11:11):
The place wasn't closed down until eighty four. Yeah, you said,
that's insane. I'm not saying that the magic tornover didn't
happen or anything, but it didn't happen overnight.

Speaker 3 (01:11:18):
I'll tell you that it's a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
People have to complain after Geraldo went in there, you know,
like it wasn't shut down, Like it's insane.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
You're right, it's so crazy, so dumb. Yeah, eighty seven,
you said, right, it closed in eighty seven. Yeah, oh yeah,
eighty seven still a long time some time.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
It's a long time time, a long time after they
were already outed, not even a long time after the abuse.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
That might be an interesting episode to actually find some
of these big laws. Weather it has to do with kidnapping,
whether it has to do with institutions like that and
whatever the case that created those, like the ambrella.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
And if there are differences between states, what makes those
differences special? Yeah, like I know there are some. I'm
sure they exist. I'm sure they're not maybe not, I
don't know, but yeah, Like I know, murder is murder,
but like, is there like a murder that like let's
say I had decapitate someone in Miami versus here, Like
is there a difference in that sentence? Like is there

(01:12:17):
a difference?

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
Right? Yeah, that would be I think it would be
kind of a fun show.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Ye, Like yeah, both in jail. But there is one
mean execution by the way, or does it you know.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Is one considered just desecration of a body in another one?

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
Is?

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
I want to know some other elevated charge or something
state to state.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Yeah, it's interesting, Yeah, it might be fine thing to
research one day.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
But but yeah, Airport Burgers late night late, I'd seek's
watch burger.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
I'm getting myself hungry.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
If this was a Saturday, I'd say, let's go to
taco Bill.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
What else? What else did you pick up on this?

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
No? No, now it's roughly yet I like the well,
that's that's the myster of course, but like that's like
it makes more, That's what I'm saying. The fact that
there was in a lot of bodies with this guy
makes me feel like I like the partner idea. I
wouldn't say cult immediately, but I get why people go there. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
Yeah, the displacement of these mentally youth.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Was this guy in your original web ideas? No, no, no, no, But.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
The displacement of all these people from Willowbrook, you know,
could there be a murderous gang of people out there
hiding in those in the green belt and in the
tunnels and shit, who knows?

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Man is that place still there? So forth?

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
As of Yeah, there was a documentary that came out
about Cropsy. It was actually really good. I literally think
it was called Cropsy. I want to say it's within
the last ten years for sure, and there were still
ruins out there and it's some scary shit. It's some
scary looking shit. You could see some cult activity going
on in there. It's a what a great atmosphere for

(01:13:55):
an urban legend. Perfect? Oh yeah, just like Bachelor Girl.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
It's to be a rights itself, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
Yeah, and then to actually have this stuff happening there
is just I mean, you can't make this ship up. Ye.
The truth is stranded and fiction right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's cool. I'm not cool. Good back then? Yeah?
Cool research.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
So you had never heard of this guy?

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
No, I definitely have heard of the documentary. I didn't
know anything about it though. I just thought the name
was memorable crops. He's a memorable title for a movie,
it is, and that's I really didn't know it was
a documentary even. I just know it was a movie title,
so I didn't know what it was.

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
Yeah, it was. Actually I think it won a couple
of words and things.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
I'm sure it's good. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe i'll
watch it now maybe, definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Cool. I didn't know anything about this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
Good story, Yes, that's a good story, but good story purpose?
I know, what do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Should we uh should wrap it up?

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
Get another drink and head out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
Yeah, it's kind. I like to drink.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
Idea, I do like drinking, Oscar, Why don't you take
us home, but navigate us around the green belt please?

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
Yeah, Roger sure.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
M m m m.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
M m m m.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
It's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
And the money is there too. It's great, looks good money,
like it's all like a really good effects effects. Actually
they're using a lot of practical special effects too, so
that's good.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
Yeah, it's it's great. But you're yeah, you're right. When
they were torturing the thing, was it the blood beetles,
the blood tick the face hugger? Was it the face hugger?

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
They were not torturing it. But it's just I love.
It's like a it's like a food pyramid. That was
one of my favorite scenes of that of the last episode.
It was like a food pyramid, right of predators, like
it used to be the alien but with since there,
since they don't give a ship about you and they're
stronger than you, as we saw with how Wendy took
one on one on one like there's they're the top

(01:16:07):
of the pyramid now. Yeah, that's how it felt like
the way they were just easily handling this face hugger.
You know how hard it was for people to handle
that thing in the previous movie, extremely hard. They could
never break them out, could never separate them, to never
get them to calm down. Now they they started. It
almost felt sorry for it, the way they were just
fucking just fucking spread them and break open his thing.

(01:16:29):
They were a second ad too, We have a second
so it was alive. Oh yeah, it was. It was
kind of brutal. I think they're showing this this transfer
of power between the robots that are actually stronger than
the alien, which was the thing we all fear.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Wow, so now maybe fear the robots.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Yeah, right, this is what I don't know what. I
don't know what's going on, but that's what it looked
like to me.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
So I can't wait.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
What did I watch something today? I don't know if
you're in the whole the Jason the new Jason universe.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
No, there's something new.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
Yeah, it's called the Jason Verse. And this company kind
of took over the rights or partial rights, because the
reason why we never we haven't had a Jason Vorhees
movie in like it's like fifteen years or.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
So yeah, since that one with Jared exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
Because they've been caught up in court. The original writer
versus the original director have been fighting for time the
writer gets because someone wants the IP and they keep
claiming it should be theirs. No, it should be mine,
blah blah blah. So it's that's why Jason hasn't come
out with anything.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Kind of like a regular divorce person. When it comes
to parents, it usually goes to the writer, like it
usually goes to the mom.

Speaker 3 (01:17:40):
Yeah, well it was part of it was one guy.
I don't know if it was the writer or the
person who directed.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
No, it's interesting. I'm not saying I don't believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
I'm just saying writer because Jason wasn't in the first one.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
Well maybe that's why.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
So this producer, I guess I can't remember their names.
He's the one that made Jason as the character with
the hockey mask and everything. So that's where the fighting
was kind of coming in. Well, yeah, it's Friday at
the thirteenth, but he wasn't in the first one and
he got into this real gray legal Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Then maybe they're battling all their names than it is
about the actual script or anything like.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
The image the name. So now it's not Friday at thirteenth,
it's the Jason verse or the Jason universe.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
So now they're starting with you know, all new so.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
I you know, you know there's been a few of
these coming backs, right, yes, Like Scream was one of
the first that did like a lega sequel to it
to itself. But that makes more sense because screened by
a nature, it's like making fun of slashers from the
get go, like it's part of that universe. It's like
a little self aware. And then they recently did I
know what you did last summer? And which I saw?

(01:18:49):
It was okay? And that's my point is like with
with schlocky nightighty slasher slocky eighties horror things like Jason
and Freddy Krueger, just just go bonkers, go like fear
Streets in the Fear Street movies. Just do Fear Street.
Just do like put an eighties filter on it and
go fucking nuts and just go with Gore, go with blood.

(01:19:11):
Make it make more sense maybe sure than the eighties versions.
You know, some tits here or there. That's it, Like
just keep it gradual, like, don't try to break the
bank making an actual sequel that makes it like, don't
worry about it. It's adjacent movie. We don't go there
for I don't know, splitting the atom intellectual right, we're
not at all right, Like I know what you did

(01:19:32):
that summer?

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
Like it?

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
That's how who done it?

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
In the original? They did another? It was another who
done it? In this one? And I think they did
a good good enough job, although who done I guessed
it before, but that's because I've seen like so many
of these kind of movies. But overall, I was like, Okay,
I see what you were doing. That's kind of cool.
And they found a way to bring back Sirra michaelle
Geller in a dream sequence. But they brought the actress
back because she does in the first one.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
That's what Katie was saying, but she's in.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
This she's in the new one. And I said the
same thing, like how was she in the new one?
It was a dream sequence? Like that was cool?

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
That is kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
Yeah, And she looked like like Buffy almost, like because
she had the prompting because she was like the uppity
friend in the group. Yeah, okay, that was cute.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
That was cute.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
It was funny if you love those movies, but they're
not amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
So I never got into like, I know you did Scream, Yeah,
but I know you did it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
Oh yeah, no, I know what you did is definitely
way less good or less better than Scream for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
I mean the way it ends, it's very much like that.

Speaker 3 (01:20:26):
Yeah. Yeah, the last five minutes was cool.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
Everything else, we're like, oh my god, we need to
see this from another angle, like, let's get on with it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
I love the angles. The only I didn't like so
much is the cop. I was like, oh, if this
Lee's back, I don't care a shit about him. But
I liked when they went to that, like homeless guy
or the drug user. I like when they went to him,
like oh that's cool, Like, oh that's how. But the
second we saw that house with the newspapers on the
on the windows, I'm like, they're in there. I don't
have to fucking think twice. They're in there. And I

(01:20:54):
was right, like, it's the way they're not in There
was no one questioning this. The one kid survived and
then his one house is the one that's papered so suspiciously.
No way, no, way, I'm like, they're in there. I
think I said a lot in the theater. I'm like,
they're in there.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
Yeah, the Witch. They already said there's gonna be a
spin off of her story.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
I hope not, because I feel that less, forget that better.

Speaker 3 (01:21:18):
I liked her. I thought she was cool.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
I thought she was like the way, like the way
the movie plays with this is very compliance heavy, but
because I love that movie, I referenced a lot. But
where like it takes, it takes society and like what
we are able to accept and not accept to its
breaking point, Like the way she uses society against itself
is fun, it's very horrifying. It's like Speak No Evil

(01:21:43):
the original, but the new one too, where she walks
into that principal's house. I wouldn't that seems that scene
was so maddening. Maddening, which one the scene which she
goes to the principal's house the gay couple and and
talks away in there, manages to get a bowl of

(01:22:04):
water and then does a spell right in front of them,
cuts herself and they don't do anything to stop it.
My first thought, like, this is clearly a criticism on
suburban life because or small town life. I don't know,
because in the city, that will never happen. I will
never let this bitch inside my house.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Never.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
I don't care how fucking poort. Fuck off lady, I
don't I don't trust nothing. She wouldn't get through the door.
I don't even have a doorbell for her to acknowledge
me that.

Speaker 3 (01:22:29):
I'm there like that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
It was so maddening day, and I was only how
realistic is this? I don't live in the suburbs, I
don't live in small towns. Is that realistic?

Speaker 3 (01:22:39):
It wouldn't happen here. I don't know my house.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
Well, we'd like to say that, but I mean, I
just it looked a little convincing and kind of funny.
It's a little comedic, but that seems insane. And then
get you know, she he makes her, she makes him
kill her husband and then go off and kill yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:57):
Yeah, see, it would be cool to see her like story,
how she got those powers? Where she comes?

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
I mean, I mean, I don't want to get that.
If I want to get her story, I want to
get her like I don't even want that. I mean,
I love the modern which I love a witch I
want which is more. I like that to a horror movie,
by the which is cool. We don't get that. I
love how the movie uses technology as a horror device.
That's kind of cool. We never get to see that

(01:23:22):
the ring cameras, the ring cameras in the front doors
of all these fam you know, famous houses, not famous
suburban houses. That adds the horror to it. That's kind
of cool. I never seen technology use. Usually horror movies
do everything in their power to cut all the cell phones,
cut all technology, so they have an excuse to have
the killer in the woods by themselves. No, this one's like, no,
I won't embrace technology. And here's why.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
And it's so true. Every house here has a camera, right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
And also I find it a little unbelievable that everyone's
children will be able to get out of there without
any one knows thing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
That's arms right, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
Was it like do it quietly? Do it sneakily? Do
it like a ninja? Was that in the because those
were running it didn't look like yeah, yeah, why was
he doing that? Well, it wasn't exactly that they were
doing this.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
This is we're back.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
No, No, they weren't bad. They were like this, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
Yeah. Man, if I see them little fuckers running down
my street light at night, I'm running them over.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was funny that no one noticed
that was what happening. Like, no one stopped to any
of them, No one tried and like talked to the
like he just kept going. He bid me and he
ran away something. No, everyone's like, I was done asleep.

Speaker 3 (01:24:30):
What do you think of the actress? I don't remember
her name, Julie Gardner? Is it Julie Garni? Yet? Do
you like her?

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
I do like her. She has an interesting face, she
has a certain character like I buried specific face. But
she's good. She plays a lot of different kinds of characters.
She plays funny, she plays serious, she plays manic, she
plays you're right, psycho, she plays you know, heroin Heroin.

Speaker 3 (01:24:52):
Maybe it wasn't her, I just we just maybe I
just didn't get into it for some reason. Maybe she
was fine in weapons. Maybe I just didn't maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
But also she I mean, she's like Gwynethaucho for some people.
Like if you don't like her, you don't like her.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
Her in Ozark. I liked her in the Rosemary's Baby prequel.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
Thing, apartments, Apartment seventeen, I think seventeen A that. Yeah,
I like that movie too.

Speaker 3 (01:25:15):
That movie.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
She was good.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
I hadn't seen her a silver Surfer yet, but.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
I mean she's not. It's not like a big ass role.
But she's good.

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
Not too.

Speaker 3 (01:25:23):
Yeah, maybe she is good. I liked her. I really
liked her in Ozark. She fucking goes off the handle.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Man, I've seen the meme. I've never seen it. I
haven't never finished the show, but you never finished. No,
I didn't care for it. I thought it was way
too over the top. Oh, I didn't like it, but
I thought, like most of the first reason, there's a funny.
People always clipped her saying, if you well, she said.

Speaker 3 (01:25:46):
If you're gonna stop, you're gonna have to.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
Fuck kill me. That's this theme that everyone takes out.
That's a that's an it's insane. Yeah, it is insane. Yeah,
it's very dark, satanic. It's it's called Cult of the Lamb.

Speaker 3 (01:25:59):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
It's all like it's like not a birth eye view,
but one of those long views of kind of small characters,
and they look kind of like cute little plushies, but
they're not you're a lamb that it's about to get sacrificed.
You're the last of your kind. Apparently you're about to
get sacrificed to the main god from the land that
they're in the main religion and this old school like

(01:26:24):
fucking fire with the robes and the executional guy slices
your head up. You're the last of your kind. As
soon as that happens, you end up in heaven. But like, oh,
trick the god that you were worshiping that no one
else approves of, Like, yeah, we're waiting for you. You're the
last one. Now I can show that I can come
out like he's impresent, but he's still powerful. He's like,

(01:26:45):
you go, I'm gonna bring you back to life with
certain abilities and prices, sacrifices. I want you to, in
my name start a cult. That's the prompers of the game.
Start a cult in my name so I can be released.

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
What the hell?

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
So I'm supposed to like slowly, yeah, the game slowly,
but surely I have a space that I found after
I escape, you know, with a sword and shit. Uh,
you escape the area and you find this little land
where you're starting your own cult, your own colony of cults, right,
and you rescue people and either by force or with
their will, they will join your cult.

Speaker 3 (01:27:22):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
Uh huh? And you make them do stop like you're
gonna be the cook, You're gonna be the wood guy.
You get the wood, you get to make the village,
to make a town, and you go out there, you
go out into the wood. You start killing all the
followers of the people that killed you and all the
followers of the main religion that is wrong to bring out. Yeah,
it's to bring out your God to life. It's like

(01:27:45):
a crazy culty, dark red satanic game. It's a fun game.
Fear you might be into that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
Yeah, but what the fucked?

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Yeah, it was free on that PlayStation Blouse. That's where
I got it, so I just started there. So there's
more to it, I'm sure, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
Anyway, Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
I thought you would get tickled by that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
Yeah, it reminds me of Goat Simulator with Satan

All Episodes

Episode 170: Cropsey - The Nightmare That Became Real

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 170: Cropsey - The Nightmare That Became Real