December 11, 2023 • 40 mins
Fashion makes us feel elegant and affluent, creating unique looks that allow people living in crowded societies to set themselves apart with unique styles. But fashion also comes at a substantial environmental cost. According to many estimates, 10% of the world's carbon emissions and 20% of wastewater are generated by making, shipping, and selling clothing, much of which ends up in landfills long before the clothing's usefulness is exhausted. Meet Kurt Kipka, Chief Impact Officer at the Apparel Impact Institute. This nonprofit is working to reduce the apparel industry's negative environmental and social consequences. The Apparel Impact Institute created a methodology called Clean by Design that helps textiles and clothing manufacturers identify issues, get funding to trial new strategies, and propagate solutions across the industry. The organization emphasizes the importance of objectively measurable progress toward using less energy, water, and chemicals and reducing waste in the manufacturing process.
The American Chemical Society, funded by the plastic industry responsible for the rise of the materials that enable fast fashion, claims the volume of fashion production will grow by 300% before 2050, which is unsustainable. Our society might be buried in its clothing waste. Kurt outlines the path to a more sustainable fashion industry, including using natural and recycled fiber, decarbonizing production, and shorter supply chains built around local clothing hubs that sell, resell, repair, and recycle clothing. Today's fast fashion item that costs $10 and is worn three times before being discarded could become a durable piece of clothing that is sold, resold, loaned, and traded in many times, with the fashion label earning revenue at each turn as the facilitator of the experience of shopping for quality, long-lasting clothing. You can learn more about the Apparel Impact Institute at https://apparelimpact.org/
The American Chemical Society, funded by the plastic industry responsible for the rise of the materials that enable fast fashion, claims the volume of fashion production will grow by 300% before 2050, which is unsustainable. Our society might be buried in its clothing waste. Kurt outlines the path to a more sustainable fashion industry, including using natural and recycled fiber, decarbonizing production, and shorter supply chains built around local clothing hubs that sell, resell, repair, and recycle clothing. Today's fast fashion item that costs $10 and is worn three times before being discarded could become a durable piece of clothing that is sold, resold, loaned, and traded in many times, with the fashion label earning revenue at each turn as the facilitator of the experience of shopping for quality, long-lasting clothing. You can learn more about the Apparel Impact Institute at https://apparelimpact.org/
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(00:08):
Hello, and welcome to another episodeof Earth nine one one's Sustainability in Your
Ear, the podcast conversation about acceleratingthe transition to a sustainable carbon neutral society.
I'm your host, Mett Tracliff.Thanks for joining the conversation today.
Fashion makes us feel elegant and affluent, creating unique looks that allow people living
in crowded societies to set themselves apartin unique ways. But fashion also comes
(00:33):
with a huge environmental cost. Accordingto many estimates, ten percent of the
world's carbon emissions and twenty percent ofwastewater are generated by making, shipping,
and selling clothing, much of whichends up in landfills long before the clothing's
usefulness is exhausted. A significant portionof clothing purchased in the United States,
up to twenty percent, is noteven worn. According to some research,
(00:56):
fashion has become the epitome of thetake, make waste way of life.
The American Chemical Society, which isfunded by the plastic industry responsible for the
rise of the materials that enable fastfashion, claims that the volume of fashion
production will grow by another three hundredpercent before twenty fifty. It's an unsustainable
trajectory and our society might be buriedin its clothing waste. Our guest today
(01:19):
is Kurt Kipka, chief Impact Officerat the Apparel Impact Institute, a nonprofit
that's working to reduce the negative environmentaland social consequences of the apparel industry.
The Apparel Impact Institute created a methodologycalled Clean by Design that helps textiles and
clothing manufacturers identify issues, get fundingto trial new strategies, and propagate solutions
(01:42):
across the industry. The organization emphasizesthe importance of objectively measurable result and transparency
about progress towards using less energy,water, and chemicals, as well as
reducing waste in the manufacturing process forclothing. In a recent report taking stock
of progress against the Roadmap to NetZero, the Apparel Impact Institute suggests that
(02:06):
the fashion industry must reduce its emissionsby more than fifty percent by twenty twenty
three to stay aligned with the goalof preventing warming of more than one point
five degrees centigrade. Making textiles isresponsible for fifty two percent of the industry's
emissions, so efficiency improvements could makea huge impact, but the report also
says that it is time to embracenovel materials and for a more comprehensive move
(02:31):
from coal powered production to renewable energy. In the fashion manufacturing centers around the
world, many of which are inSoutheast Asia, which is coal dependent.
It's time to strip fashion down andrebuild it on a new model, and
we can all participate by making informedpurchase decisions and communicating our values to the
retailers where we shop. You canlearn more about the Apparel Impact Institute at
(02:54):
apparelimpact dot org. Apparel Impact isall one word, no space, no
debts apparelimpact dot org. Now let'sget into the conversation. Welcome to the
show, Kurt. How are youdoing today? Great? Thanks for having
me, Mitch, I really appreciatethe time. Well, thank you,
and it's a pleasure to have youhere. I want to start off.
You're the Chief Impact Officer, whichis a fairly new title for the institute
(03:17):
dedicated to making apparel and apparel impact. So tell us about your job and
what brought you here. Sure,so maybe my journey helps explain my job
a little bit better than just divinginto the role itself. I started my
career actually in product sourcing at Targetcorporation where I followed a typical sourcing career
(03:38):
path all the way to being abuyer, someone responsible for actually shipping footwear
across the world. In that roleof being a purchaser, I started to
ask questions that kind of led meto be known as the green guy of
sorts, which prompted me to begiven the opportunity to become the sustainability manager
(04:00):
ultimately start a sustainability team focusing onsupply chain at Target corporation. With that,
I became connected with some key stakeholdersand individuals who have become actually mentors
to me since then. One inparticular is doctor Linda Greer from the Natural
Resources Defense Counsole. At the time, we worked together very closely while I
was at a large corporation. Wehit it off and I actually joined then
(04:26):
the NRDC or Natural Resources Defense Counciloverseeing the types of projects that I now
oversee for Apparel Impact Institute that reallyrepresent implementation work for environmental improvements on the
ground within the apparel sector. Andwith that, my title now of Chief
Impact Officer, which you mentioned isa new title relatively speaking. When we
(04:47):
say impact, it's really focusing onenvironmental outcomes, and so I like to
compare myself to kind of the roleof a CFO in some cases in a
sense that when we say we're goingto to deliver on particular environmental improvements with
the initiatives that we're taking on,it's my sole responsibility to ensure that that's
happening across our organization. Okay,so you're the one responsible for the externalities
(05:11):
that the CFO had been ignoring forall that time. Well, I wouldn't
say that. We actually work quiteclosely together, recognizing that in a lot
of cases, the unlock of financeand capital for the kind of work that
we do is one barrier in particularthat we can address collectively, and so
I actually work very closely with theCFO in that regard, and we work
together on ensuring that there's both viablefinancial outcomes for our organization and the ones
(05:36):
that we work with, but alsoenvironmental impacts or reductions thereof that are resulting
from the work that we take on. Now, the Apparel Impact Institute has
documented the supply chains in several regionsto understand water, energy, chemical impacts,
all the things that fashion does tothe environment. What's the journey that
leads from those places to the clothesthat we choose from at the store.
(06:00):
What are the important steps and theirimpact? Yeah, and I'll try to
keep it as simple as possible,but the reality is it's an incredibly opaque
supply chain and one that is ahandful just to map in of itself,
and so many organizations, brands,retailers, and even suppliers included, have
a really heavy task on their handsjust to know where different goods, products,
(06:23):
and inputs to the production process arecoming from. In its simplest form,
however, we break it down intofour tiers, the first tier being
the origin of materials, the originof natural resources, for example, like
cotton that would be a part ofthe end product. From there, we
would go to tier three, orthe next tier of production, which is
(06:46):
preparing that cotton for becoming a material. In some cases that can become yarn
that's being spawned or ginned in thethird stage, or the tier three as
we define it, of the supplychain. From there, it goes to
what we refer to as here too, and that's where we're taking that yarn
that's prepped and turning it into anactual material. From there, that large
(07:11):
role of material. If you canvisualize, it becomes shipped or transported to
a final location where it's cut andsown. And that's really what we refer
to that stage of production as beingthe cut and so stage of production where
it's turning into a shirt, aset of pants, or different apparel products.
One thing that's incredibly important to notefollowing those four steps is that each
(07:34):
one of those can happen in adifferent location. And so when I talk
about the opacity of this supply chain, the idea of each of these steps
being shipped, transported, moved aroundthe world really creates a complex web of
supply chain mapping and ultimately a chasingthat we need to do in order to
identify where the appropriate impacts and measurescan be taken in order to drive improve
(08:00):
It's really phenomenally complex when you diginto our supply chains, but particularly around
clothing. Stuff might move back andforth even between locations. And I know
this is a big question, buthow could we reorganize the supply chain to
reduce the emissions associated with each ofthose steps and all of the transportation that's
built into the process. Answer ismore regional production. The reality is that
(08:26):
getting from point A where we standnow to point B. A big part
of what AI does is some scenarioplanning and mapping along the realities of how
long it's going to take. Evenin a world where policies, engagement,
and practices are aligned to drive moreregional production. I do truly think that
that is the future state of wherethis sector and perhaps a lot of industry
(08:50):
needs to go is more vocalized productionprocesses. But in the meantime, we
recognize that there are barriers that wecan address in the existing form that helps
to set that industry up for futuresuccess, bringing certain production processes closer together
or vertically integrating certain processes in away that not only reduces that transit time
(09:11):
and that opacity, but also todrive environmental improvements based on more cohesive production
processes. Now, you reported thatgreenhouse gas emission's intensity of raw materials has
remained pretty constant over the years,and that fifty two percent of the industry's
impact is related to those materials.So it's kind of fixed, it hasn't
(09:33):
changed a lot. What are themost important transitions we can make in the
process of preparation and production of theactual textiles is there a big savings to
be made there? Absolutely, andthat's probably where I see the biggest opportunity
between now and where a lot ofplayers in the industry have set targets for
(09:54):
twenty thirty, and that is focusingon that area of the supply chain.
If you refer back to the waythat I map this out previously, what
we refer to as tier two ofthe supply chain. So one step further
back than the typical buyer, brandretailer might have is at that material production.
It's at this stage where there isheavy water and at heavy heat use
(10:16):
in the production of those materials,and with that comes significant opportunities for improvement,
many of which have been largely untappedfor years, and that's where AII
in our programming has historically played inmany cases just addressing low hanging fruit improvements
like prompting energy efficiency. However,it's at that stage of production where there's
(10:41):
also opportunities for incorporating renewable energy transitionfor the electricity that's being used, but
then more specifically focusing on thermal energyneeds where there's heat necessary in production,
identifying where we can reduce the heatdemand that's required for those process or even
remove it altogether with innovative dry processingor low heat processing interventions or production processes
(11:09):
that we could put into play.Does that suggest that the main move would
be away from fossil fuel based materialsthat require a lot of heat in order
to produce in the first place,And that really represents kind of the way
that we break down the efforts thatwe participate in across the supply chain.
There's both fossil fuels as an inputto materials, that is the feedstock that's
(11:31):
going into material production, but thenalso the production itself, which in many
cases coal fired boilers are still veryreadily used across the industry, and where
coal is not being used in mostcases the transition has been made to gas.
Now, within our work, we'restarting to trace opportunities to either electrify
(11:52):
those boilers in some cases building upbusiness cases wherever it's needed, or even
possible biomask and biofuels can play arole, but that comes with trade offs
as well. So actually, abig part of what our organization is working
on right now is mapping that thermalenergy transition, which viably could happen within
key regions based on infrastructure, basedon grid and ultimately the abilities that suppliers
(12:18):
in those regions can have to makethat transition. Now we're talking in large
part about Asia, which has grownand dominance by cutting the cost production.
Is there the capital and the willto make the necessary investments in Asia to
make this transition while preserving the affordabilityof our clothes. You really nailed it
(12:39):
on the head. The capital.Yes, the capital is there. There's
no shortage of funding finance available.It's connecting that capital, those funds,
with the will and ultimately the businesscase for deploying of those funds. And
that's kind of the sweet spot whichAI has found ourselves in identifying good projects
(13:00):
that are fund worthy or worth acapital investment, and then ultimately trying to
drive business friendly solutions in the formof business to business commitments and engagement that
gives that production facility the confidence thator even the bank the confidence that this
is a good loan based on acommitment or a point of reference or even
(13:22):
a guarantee in some cases, thata brand or retailer can have that this
is a long range plan. Becausewe start to look at longer term investments
that are needed in this supply chainand In many cases, that supplier,
that manufacturer is looking out six totwelve months ahead and really just looking to
ensure that they're keeping their lights onin most cases, and when we start
(13:43):
to look at ten to fifteen yearhorizons for some of these investments, there
really is a shared benefit that needsto be accounted for across the banks,
even the development banks, and thepail retailers and who are bringing this work
forward based on the aspirations that they'veset for themselves and rightfully so, to
(14:05):
be more conscious of how those goodsare being produced. So are the labels
funding the clean by Design program whereyou are working to create that greener supply
chain. Yeah, when it comesto environmental improvements, we've seen a significant
uptick in brands and retailers who arewilling to contribute to those efforts. Typically,
(14:28):
though it's been on the part ofconsulting and management practices, the actual
investment historically has fallen on the supplierthemselves. And so you can imagine,
and rightfully so, that those suppliersand manufacturers have a right and a reason
to question, why does this fallsolely on me? How can we provide
some shared experience or some shared responsibilityin these long term interventions that ultimately will
(14:54):
benefit the industry as a whole.And so what AII has historically done is
facilitated the consulting, the roadmapping,the target setting for our brand partners but
also supplier partners that we work with, and then we identify where projects within
those action plans of achieving a targetcan be fundable, and that's where we
can layer in some of the fundingthe finance and bank interest in seeing some
(15:18):
of these longer term aspirations come tofruition. Now, the other thing about
the low cost production methodology is anequity question. Two percent of the world's
seventy five million clothing factory workers earna living wage. At this point,
do you see these organizations really readyto step up both to make the workplace
more equitable and safe. I thinkit's a need. And actually, when
(15:43):
we look at the work historically doneby our team, by our organization,
we've been fairly purposeful in defining thescope of what we do solely on environmental
impacts. What we recognize though,is that that siloed view is not going
to get the necessary change that's neededfor this industry. And so we can
very simply look at environmental improvements likereducing the heat needed for manufacturing as improving
(16:08):
the workplace environment for the workforce acrossthis industry, but taking that one step
further, those environmental improvements are alsoreducing energy needs from the grid itself,
providing more consistent energy in the regionswhere we're deploying this work. And then
on the water side, ensuring thateffluent is effectively treated within the industry is
(16:30):
directly affecting the communities where the workis being done. And so we're on
an ongoing basis building that gap orfilling that gap rather between what has historically
been a very separated and purposely separatedset of activities on environment and social indicators,
and we look to partners within thisindustry for collaboration on where we can
(16:53):
influence and provide support to those sociallabor work aspects of the industry that are
taking shape. So again we're kindof back to the idea of externalities.
A lot of the things that wehave purposely pushed aside in order to focus
on one aspect of the supply chainnow need to be taken into consideration as
(17:14):
a whole. And the use ofcoal fired boilers that improves local air quality
and certainly the quality of the airwithin the production facility, but then you
know the grid benefits and so forth. All of that we need to think
about in order to achieve the lowercosts that we continue to want to see
(17:34):
our clothes sold. That, yeah, and what you're addressing also is a
kind of a controversial topic within thisindustry altogether, and that is the role
of fast fashion or the reliance onlow cost clothing within this industry that I
guess, even as a consumer,I've continually seen the quality of clothing production
(17:57):
decrease over time. I'm based onthose low cost aspirations. It's more of
a throwaway culture, which I thinkthat there would be some great benefit if
we were to slow perhaps the buyingprocesses within this industry, which, as
you can imagine, becomes a bitcontroversial when you look at a market approach
(18:18):
to building the industry as it is. But ultimately, I do think that
we're at a bit of an inflectionpoint, both as an industry and perhaps
as a society if you want togo that far, in terms of our
buying practices and what that means foran industry such as fashion, where speed
has become very much the norm.Low cost has become very much the norm,
(18:40):
and ultimately the externalities that that haswell, the just in time way
that we make and use everything needsto change. I want to take a
quick commercial break and come right backand talk more. Now, let's get
back to the conversation with the ChiefImpact Officer the Apparel Impact Institute, Kurt
Kipka. So, Kurt, followingon what we were just talking talking about,
(19:00):
do you see the fashion industry aspotentially being ready to sell less and
more durable clothing and potentially build inmore services like local mending and tailoring to
bring some of the production closer tothe consumer. Yeah, I think there
are clear signs both in terms ofthe brands or the industry taking a part
(19:21):
in that high durability repair concept.But then also on the government side,
we're seeing expectations increase around or acrossEurope rather fairly significantly about the durability and
expectations that would be applied to goodsand services within that region in particular,
and you could expect that that mightexpand to other regions like the US and
(19:42):
Asia as well. But coming backto the industries or areas of the industry
where this is already starting to takeshape, you're seeing a lot of uptick,
or in fact, we're seeing alot of uptake in the outdoor industry
in particular, where there's goods andservice that are ultimately being built for long
term durability. Someone wants to buya parka or a jacket and have that
(20:06):
last ten twenty years, and it'simportant that the products are set up to
do so. And with that,you're seeing an investment by a number of
those outdoor brands and retailers, bothin terms of ensuring that there's quality and
durable products being brought forward, butalso that those repair services, exchange services,
take back services are all being incorporatedinto the way that they're doing business.
(20:30):
What I do think still remains tobe seen, and this is the
gap for some of the fashion orfaster fashion retailers, is the appropriate business
mechanism or the business case rather forensuring that if we're taking back, if
we're repairing, that there's a businessmodel that is going to support that.
And there's a number of different levellevers Ultimately that perhaps could be another conversation
(20:55):
we get into that would allow forthat to happen. Both in terms of
GOVERNMNT intervention and supply chain intervention thatcould allow for that to happen. But
we're seeing that increase overall. Themomentum I think is building, but I
think it could be faster to behonest part of the rather than regulate this,
(21:17):
which I think everybody would have adifficult time with, from the consumer
to the manufacturer being told what todo. Does the industry need to embrace
an ethos of durability and communicate thatis one of the key selling points to
consumers. Should we be talking moreabout the fact that I bought outdoor clothing
in nineteen eighty eight that I stillhave because it was well made. Is
(21:40):
that values based change something that theindustry is really actively discussing. I think
in pockets, yes, And Ithink that consumers have a lot to do
with this. That there is aconsumer base that's growing and is growing in
the expectations that it has as ofclothing and in product durability overall. Meanwhile,
(22:03):
there's also a growing consumer base thatis looking for just in time fashion,
just in time customization of products thatactually flies somewhat in the face of
these concepts of durability and longstanding productsthat people are buying, and so on
a personal level, I'd love tosee the industry continuing to dive into this
(22:27):
and to grow the durability and qualityof products and that bubble of the industry
overall. The reality is that there'sstill an incredibly huge portion of the supply
chain and of the products being soldthat are low cost and I would say
relatively lower quality than one might expectfor something that's going to last from the
(22:49):
nineteen eighties to now, in theway that we might view something like an
outdoor person. Well, I've beengoing all the way to the labels.
Could they be making their retail centersa repair and reuse and sharing center as
well? Not just you know,you go there to buy stuff and then
(23:10):
throw that away, but that becomesthe hub before your fashion life. I
do think that that gets to kindof this future state of where the industry
could or should be going, andin fact, that would be my vision
for this industry, that we havethese hubs not only for apparel, but
for all products that are take backcenters, ultimately feeding the supply of product
(23:33):
back into a circular which is abuzzword within this industry today. But a
recyclable supply chain, bringing those goodsand inputs right back into the supply chain
where they came from, and doingthat on a local basis. So ultimately,
if I were to paint a pictureof a perfect industry, it would
look something like that. And ultimatelythat's something that we can work towards.
(23:56):
And as of right now, thebiggest challenge is just getting those proper exkids
and services and feeding them into anysupply chain. And so there are baby
steps that can be taken on apath to getting towards that vision of future
model. Well, how does AIIuse the Fashion Climate Fund to instigate some
of those changes? Are there programs? I know most of this is focused
on the supply chain side, butwhere are you putting your money to work
(24:19):
right now? Yeah, thanks forasking. The Fashion Climate Fund is a
really exciting new fund that we announcedabout a year ago, a year and
a half ago now, based onthe interests of a number of key players
in this industry or stakeholders in thisindustry to begin looking longer term in nature
with the kind of investments that they'remaking in the supplier base. Having been
(24:41):
conducting implementation work on the ground inthis industry. One thing that has really
hindered or slowed the progress even ofbrands in this industry to make meaningful progress
with their suppliers is a short termnature of the types of relationships they may
have with a facility or with agiven project. Even grand funding for projects
(25:03):
can be something around three years innature. Well, when we're looking at
targets within this industry looking out totwenty thirty to twenty fifty, the reality
is that there are some interventions thatwe can fund and that we can deploy
within the industry that with a longerterm view, a longer pipeline of those
activities that we feel that we canbe driving more scaled impact. And that's
(25:29):
what the Fashion Climate Fund ultimately seeksto do, to aggregate funding of like
minded organizations who have a vested interestin achieving in most cases, science based
targets that they've set for themselves.Recognizing that there's not a go to loan
strategy that I've seen that can beproven to be successful. So this aggregated
model is one that puts our teamand our organization kind of in the middle
(25:52):
of identifying quality, value added solutionsfor the industry with a longer trajectory of
twenty thirty and so a big partof my role in fact is playing this
kind of centerpiece between the Fashion ClimateFund and a deployment mechanism we've created called
the Climate Solutions Portfolio. That isa portfolio of projects, technologies, equipment
(26:15):
ultimately that we're actively seeking to buildthat have validated proven impacts within the apparel
supply chain in order to decrease carbonthat's being used in production. And I
am a part of and work withan advisory console that looks at the effectiveness,
reach, and scale of the typesof projects, equipment, and solutions
(26:37):
that the industry has to kind ofsort through on this path of decarbonization,
and that ultimately becomes the output ofthis Fashion Climate Fund is a number of
different projects and solutions that come throughthe Climate Solutions Portfolio, where we can
layer on brand funding, where wecan provide additional research where needed most driving
(27:02):
the potential impact with a dollar incarbon reduction out mentality of the way that
we're doing the work now, youknow, I was going through some of
the clean by Design programs and itseems like the aim for let me put
the modest games between ten and twentypercent less energy US between twenty and thirty
percent less water use. That doesn'tsound like we get to twenty thirty goals,
(27:27):
which require roughly a fifty to fiftyfive percent reduction in emissions, which
energy is associated with how do westay below one point five degree centigrade and
stay well dressed. You're exactly rightthat Clean by Design and programs like it
historically have looked at low hanging fruitor very clear efficiency gains front production,
(27:49):
beginning to look at more sophisticated solutionslike layering on renewable energy solar PD installation
as the market has made it amore or lucrative or a clear business case
for deployment. The reality is thatwe need to move beyond low hanging fruit
with kind of work that we're doing, and that really is represented in the
(28:11):
work that we're doing around the FashionClimate Fund. Whereas a program like Clean
by Design really focused on being kindof a gateway to more sophisticated solutions.
We're bridging that gap now within theprograms and the types of interventions that we're
bringing forward. Looking longer term innature, are the prospects for fifty percent
(28:32):
improvement by twenty thirty or twenty thirtytwo. Good, it's there, I
will say that, And I wouldactually bring it back to your point earlier
about funding and will and some ofthe barriers that exist in this industry are
funding, paying for these projects,mapping a business case for some of these
projects, ensuring that there's a clearpath to not only the impact reductions,
(28:59):
the carbon reductions. I'll try tolose the impact terminology here, the carbon
reductions, but then also the returnon investment from a financial standpoint, which
is a key part of what ourorganization aims to do. Not just providing
validation of this particular project is goingto save you x amount of carbon,
but it's also going to deliver allowyou to pay for it over time with
(29:22):
the savings or with the expectations thatyou might have for that investment as well.
So the prospects are absolutely there,and in fact, even on the
energy efficiency side of the equation,I have still to yet, I still
have yet to tap out that asa viable path to that fifty percent reduction
there is. It's actually what's drawnme to this work. There is an
(29:44):
endless amount of efficiencies to be gainedin the production process simply with looking at
how production is being done on amacro level, there are pockets and sites
that are doing an amazing job atbeing efficient. The industry as a whole
is incredibly inefficient. Well William S. Gibson put it, well, the
future is already here. It's justvery unevenly distributed. But yeah, you
(30:07):
know, we are talking about anindustry whose supply chain is shipping dependent,
and of course, if sea levelrises even a foot and a half in
many places, that will completely disrupttheir supply chain. So there's the industry,
and this goes to the question ofwill get that they have to reduce
their impact in order to avoid havingtheir business completely disrupted if they can't change,
(30:32):
do they recognized their living on aborrowed time? I think that that
recognition is there for many leaders inthis industry or many of the organizations who
would position themselves as a leader inthis industry. And I can even trace
my own personal story to this recognition, dating back to fifteen years ago when
I first started taking an interest inthis concept of sustainability as it relates to
(30:53):
supply chain. There is a recognitionthat the world is changing and that with
that, the models that have gottenus to where we are today within this
sector, are not necessarily going tobe quote unquote sustainable in the future state
of this industry. The challenge,I think, though, is what to
do now with that realization, andpart of I would love to say the
(31:18):
argument for working with an organization likeours is the ability to begin looking at
some of that scenario planning in acollective fashion, recognizing that one brand deciding
to take a particular path may notchange the industry as a whole, but
a set of ten, fifteen,twenty of the leading organizations accounting for a
large volume of this industry working towardsmutually beneficial solutions for the sector going forward,
(31:42):
that's where we can start to tipthe scale a little bit in terms
of where this industry needs to goin order to truly be sustainable in nature.
Now, one of the things thatyou emphasize is the importance of third
party validation or certification of the work. What labels, what certification should shoppers
be looking for or or retailers whenthey're thinking about what to stock. Yeah,
(32:06):
there's a number of labels out there, the ecotech label, ecotech label,
and you know, actually, Iwould be a little bit weary of
claims. Certifications can be helpful oncertain products. Organically certified, ecotext certified,
blue sign produced are a couple ofthe terms that are thrown out in
(32:28):
this industry. What I would bea little bit weary of is carbon neutral,
climate positive things that are a littlemore opaque that that couldn't be that
may not be clear for the consumer. Ultimately, though, what I would
really look for is quality products.Uh And I would even look towards the
(32:51):
brand itself, if at all possible, beginning to look at a brand's website
and look at what type of practicesthey put into place, because ultimately that's
what drives my buying practices. Ihave the privilege to know some of these
brands quite well and know their supplychains quite well, and in a way,
you can almost have a default buyingmechanism put in place that knows that
(33:14):
at least this brand's making an effort, they're having an attempt. They've got
the right policies and procedures in placeto ensure that they're doing good work within
their supply chain. But as faras labels are concerned, it's still perhaps
a white space opportunity for this industryto put forth something along the lines of
a nutrition label, so to speak, on products that would allow the buyer
(33:34):
to make a more informed decision.Well, I think the story of our
clothing is something that is a hugeopportunity in terms of engaging people because we
also want to tell our own stories. You know where this came from.
It was made by somebody like this, it has this material and going one
step past the certification, what materialsshould a shopper be looking for if they
want to reduce their impact? Itreally varies, to be very honest with
(34:00):
you. Natural products are are apositive. I would say the use of
cotton, organic cotton, big pluses. Recycled materials are incredibly important. We're
seeing not just in this industry,but the proliferation of placed plastics or or
petrol based materials being incorporated into whatwe work with on a day to day
(34:23):
basis. That can be of greatconcern. But at the same time,
taking a look at the origins ofthose materials, but then also the makeup
of those materials is incredibly important aswell. Are there three or four questions
that you asked before you pull somethingoff the rack and decide to buy it,
(34:45):
To be honest with you, Idon't buy a whole lot. Okay,
so that's a good thing. That'sa good thing. But yes,
and you know, I mentioned itas well that I feel, you know,
I'm kind of in the middle ofthis industry, for example, and
so I know a number of organizationsthat I trust ultimately with the buying practices
(35:06):
that I put forward, and soI don't buy a whole lot. But
I'll say outside of this industry,I do actually go to websites of some
of the manufacturer some of the brandsthat exist in other sectors like electronics or
home goods in order to make thatassessment, because ultimately, there isn't a
silver bullet, so to speak,from a labeling standpoint on the environmental side
(35:28):
of the equation that's going to giveme the confidence not just from an environmental
impacts of production standpoint, but tothe point you made earlier about quality and
durability. That's probably my chief concernas well when it comes to the products
that I'm buying, is that they'regoing to last for the time frame that
I expect them to. And reallythat comes down to the reviews by the
other people who have purchased it didit last. So again, tying in
(35:52):
everybody rather than taking just one narrowview of this industry is the key to
being a better and shopper. Iagree you said, well, so,
Kurt, this is great advice.How can folks follow both your work and
what the Apparel Impact Institute does.I appreciate you asking. We're on all
(36:13):
social channels. We have a reallygreat website that's about to undergo a refresh
with some really fun I guess froma nerd like me, standpoint fun reports
for anyone who's looking to learn moreabout that clothing journey which you described.
It's all out there, where theimpacts come from, where the product is
made, how it's made. Thosecan all be found on our website,
(36:36):
and then of course I'm on socialmedia at Kurt Kika on Twitter and then
on LinkedIn as well. I'm happyto be connected with your listeners or anyone
interested in this kind of journey thatthe fashion and peril sector is taking.
Well. It's going to be along and important journey, and I hope
folks connect with you. Thanks Kurtvery much for spending time with us today.
(36:59):
Thank you may that's my pleasure.That was my conversation with Kurt Kipka.
He's the Chief Impact Officer at theApparel Impact Institute, and you can
learn more about the organization and itswork at apparelimpact dot org. Apparel Impact
is all one word, no space, no dash, Apparel Impact dot org.
(37:19):
You how fashion reflects the times andthe speed of product updates and clothing
choices, as well as in consumerelectronics and automobiles and everything else, are
the signature ideas of the early twentyfirst century economy. Having connected the world,
we sped it up and encouraged alot more consumption, and now we
can see the consequences in extreme weatherand rising costs. The supply change are
(37:40):
strained not just by pandemics, butby rising seas drought that raises the price
of natural fibers like organic cotton,and well the full gamut of climate change
impacts that are really disrupting our lives, and we're seeing only the beginning of
that disruption today. So Kurt madean important point, and one I think
we need to keep in mind thatthere's no single silver bullet solution. A
(38:04):
sustainable economy won't be built on onechange like recycling more clothing, though that's
an important behavior that we need toembrace as part of a bigger picture.
The new, more local economy canallow clothing labels to participate in our lives
differently, making their retail outlets ahub for reuse and repair services. Maybe
adding new experiences like enabling the resaleof their clothing, perhaps by offering certified
(38:28):
refurbished items that they collect from customers, mend and then resell, could open
new paths to revenue. So today'sfast fashion item that costs ten dollars and
is worn one, two or threetimes before being discarded could become a durable
piece of clothing that is sold,resold, loaned, or traded in many
times, with the fashion label earningrevenue at each turn. Is the facilitator
(38:52):
of the experience of shopping for quality, long lasting clothing. I mean,
actually, what we really want isthe entertainment of buying stuff. Keep buying
the same stuff over and over insteadof making new stuff all the time.
That's a more sustainable outcome. Whoknows we might soon see a reduce,
reuse and recycle centric fashion industry insteadof the take, make waste model that
(39:15):
dominates today. So of course we'llkeep an eye on this story. Folks,
stay tuned. I hope you'll takea moment to share this podcast or
any of the more than four hundredand forty interviews that we've done on Sustainability
in Your Ear with your friends andfamily. Writing review on your favorite podcast
platform. That is going to makethe biggest difference in helping your neighbors find
us. Folks, you're the amplifiersthat can spread more ideas so we create
(39:37):
less waste. So please tell yourfriends, your family, your coworkers.
They can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Audible or any
other fine purveyors of podcast goodness thatthey prefer. Thanks for your support.
I'm Mittrackliff. This is Earth nineone one's Sustainability in your Ear and we
will be back with another innovator interviewsoon. In the meantime, take care
(39:59):
of yourself, take care of oneanother, and let's all take care of
this beautiful planet of ours. Havea green day.
Hello, and welcome to another episodeof Earth nine one one's Sustainability in Your
Ear, the podcast conversation about acceleratingthe transition to a sustainable carbon neutral society.
I'm your host, Mett Tracliff.Thanks for joining the conversation today.
Fashion makes us feel elegant and affluent, creating unique looks that allow people living
in crowded societies to set themselves apartin unique ways. But fashion also comes
(00:33):
with a huge environmental cost. Accordingto many estimates, ten percent of the
world's carbon emissions and twenty percent ofwastewater are generated by making, shipping,
and selling clothing, much of whichends up in landfills long before the clothing's
usefulness is exhausted. A significant portionof clothing purchased in the United States,
up to twenty percent, is noteven worn. According to some research,
(00:56):
fashion has become the epitome of thetake, make waste way of life.
The American Chemical Society, which isfunded by the plastic industry responsible for the
rise of the materials that enable fastfashion, claims that the volume of fashion
production will grow by another three hundredpercent before twenty fifty. It's an unsustainable
trajectory and our society might be buriedin its clothing waste. Our guest today
(01:19):
is Kurt Kipka, chief Impact Officerat the Apparel Impact Institute, a nonprofit
that's working to reduce the negative environmentaland social consequences of the apparel industry.
The Apparel Impact Institute created a methodologycalled Clean by Design that helps textiles and
clothing manufacturers identify issues, get fundingto trial new strategies, and propagate solutions
(01:42):
across the industry. The organization emphasizesthe importance of objectively measurable result and transparency
about progress towards using less energy,water, and chemicals, as well as
reducing waste in the manufacturing process forclothing. In a recent report taking stock
of progress against the Roadmap to NetZero, the Apparel Impact Institute suggests that
(02:06):
the fashion industry must reduce its emissionsby more than fifty percent by twenty twenty
three to stay aligned with the goalof preventing warming of more than one point
five degrees centigrade. Making textiles isresponsible for fifty two percent of the industry's
emissions, so efficiency improvements could makea huge impact, but the report also
says that it is time to embracenovel materials and for a more comprehensive move
(02:31):
from coal powered production to renewable energy. In the fashion manufacturing centers around the
world, many of which are inSoutheast Asia, which is coal dependent.
It's time to strip fashion down andrebuild it on a new model, and
we can all participate by making informedpurchase decisions and communicating our values to the
retailers where we shop. You canlearn more about the Apparel Impact Institute at
(02:54):
apparelimpact dot org. Apparel Impact isall one word, no space, no
debts apparelimpact dot org. Now let'sget into the conversation. Welcome to the
show, Kurt. How are youdoing today? Great? Thanks for having
me, Mitch, I really appreciatethe time. Well, thank you,
and it's a pleasure to have youhere. I want to start off.
You're the Chief Impact Officer, whichis a fairly new title for the institute
(03:17):
dedicated to making apparel and apparel impact. So tell us about your job and
what brought you here. Sure,so maybe my journey helps explain my job
a little bit better than just divinginto the role itself. I started my
career actually in product sourcing at Targetcorporation where I followed a typical sourcing career
(03:38):
path all the way to being abuyer, someone responsible for actually shipping footwear
across the world. In that roleof being a purchaser, I started to
ask questions that kind of led meto be known as the green guy of
sorts, which prompted me to begiven the opportunity to become the sustainability manager
(04:00):
ultimately start a sustainability team focusing onsupply chain at Target corporation. With that,
I became connected with some key stakeholdersand individuals who have become actually mentors
to me since then. One inparticular is doctor Linda Greer from the Natural
Resources Defense Counsole. At the time, we worked together very closely while I
was at a large corporation. Wehit it off and I actually joined then
(04:26):
the NRDC or Natural Resources Defense Counciloverseeing the types of projects that I now
oversee for Apparel Impact Institute that reallyrepresent implementation work for environmental improvements on the
ground within the apparel sector. Andwith that, my title now of Chief
Impact Officer, which you mentioned isa new title relatively speaking. When we
(04:47):
say impact, it's really focusing onenvironmental outcomes, and so I like to
compare myself to kind of the roleof a CFO in some cases in a
sense that when we say we're goingto to deliver on particular environmental improvements with
the initiatives that we're taking on,it's my sole responsibility to ensure that that's
happening across our organization. Okay,so you're the one responsible for the externalities
(05:11):
that the CFO had been ignoring forall that time. Well, I wouldn't
say that. We actually work quiteclosely together, recognizing that in a lot
of cases, the unlock of financeand capital for the kind of work that
we do is one barrier in particularthat we can address collectively, and so
I actually work very closely with theCFO in that regard, and we work
together on ensuring that there's both viablefinancial outcomes for our organization and the ones
(05:36):
that we work with, but alsoenvironmental impacts or reductions thereof that are resulting
from the work that we take on. Now, the Apparel Impact Institute has
documented the supply chains in several regionsto understand water, energy, chemical impacts,
all the things that fashion does tothe environment. What's the journey that
leads from those places to the clothesthat we choose from at the store.
(06:00):
What are the important steps and theirimpact? Yeah, and I'll try to
keep it as simple as possible,but the reality is it's an incredibly opaque
supply chain and one that is ahandful just to map in of itself,
and so many organizations, brands,retailers, and even suppliers included, have
a really heavy task on their handsjust to know where different goods, products,
(06:23):
and inputs to the production process arecoming from. In its simplest form,
however, we break it down intofour tiers, the first tier being
the origin of materials, the originof natural resources, for example, like
cotton that would be a part ofthe end product. From there, we
would go to tier three, orthe next tier of production, which is
(06:46):
preparing that cotton for becoming a material. In some cases that can become yarn
that's being spawned or ginned in thethird stage, or the tier three as
we define it, of the supplychain. From there, it goes to
what we refer to as here too, and that's where we're taking that yarn
that's prepped and turning it into anactual material. From there, that large
(07:11):
role of material. If you canvisualize, it becomes shipped or transported to
a final location where it's cut andsown. And that's really what we refer
to that stage of production as beingthe cut and so stage of production where
it's turning into a shirt, aset of pants, or different apparel products.
One thing that's incredibly important to notefollowing those four steps is that each
(07:34):
one of those can happen in adifferent location. And so when I talk
about the opacity of this supply chain, the idea of each of these steps
being shipped, transported, moved aroundthe world really creates a complex web of
supply chain mapping and ultimately a chasingthat we need to do in order to
identify where the appropriate impacts and measurescan be taken in order to drive improve
(08:00):
It's really phenomenally complex when you diginto our supply chains, but particularly around
clothing. Stuff might move back andforth even between locations. And I know
this is a big question, buthow could we reorganize the supply chain to
reduce the emissions associated with each ofthose steps and all of the transportation that's
built into the process. Answer ismore regional production. The reality is that
(08:26):
getting from point A where we standnow to point B. A big part
of what AI does is some scenarioplanning and mapping along the realities of how
long it's going to take. Evenin a world where policies, engagement,
and practices are aligned to drive moreregional production. I do truly think that
that is the future state of wherethis sector and perhaps a lot of industry
(08:50):
needs to go is more vocalized productionprocesses. But in the meantime, we
recognize that there are barriers that wecan address in the existing form that helps
to set that industry up for futuresuccess, bringing certain production processes closer together
or vertically integrating certain processes in away that not only reduces that transit time
(09:11):
and that opacity, but also todrive environmental improvements based on more cohesive production
processes. Now, you reported thatgreenhouse gas emission's intensity of raw materials has
remained pretty constant over the years,and that fifty two percent of the industry's
impact is related to those materials.So it's kind of fixed, it hasn't
(09:33):
changed a lot. What are themost important transitions we can make in the
process of preparation and production of theactual textiles is there a big savings to
be made there? Absolutely, andthat's probably where I see the biggest opportunity
between now and where a lot ofplayers in the industry have set targets for
(09:54):
twenty thirty, and that is focusingon that area of the supply chain.
If you refer back to the waythat I map this out previously, what
we refer to as tier two ofthe supply chain. So one step further
back than the typical buyer, brandretailer might have is at that material production.
It's at this stage where there isheavy water and at heavy heat use
(10:16):
in the production of those materials,and with that comes significant opportunities for improvement,
many of which have been largely untappedfor years, and that's where AII
in our programming has historically played inmany cases just addressing low hanging fruit improvements
like prompting energy efficiency. However,it's at that stage of production where there's
(10:41):
also opportunities for incorporating renewable energy transitionfor the electricity that's being used, but
then more specifically focusing on thermal energyneeds where there's heat necessary in production,
identifying where we can reduce the heatdemand that's required for those process or even
remove it altogether with innovative dry processingor low heat processing interventions or production processes
(11:09):
that we could put into play.Does that suggest that the main move would
be away from fossil fuel based materialsthat require a lot of heat in order
to produce in the first place,And that really represents kind of the way
that we break down the efforts thatwe participate in across the supply chain.
There's both fossil fuels as an inputto materials, that is the feedstock that's
(11:31):
going into material production, but thenalso the production itself, which in many
cases coal fired boilers are still veryreadily used across the industry, and where
coal is not being used in mostcases the transition has been made to gas.
Now, within our work, we'restarting to trace opportunities to either electrify
(11:52):
those boilers in some cases building upbusiness cases wherever it's needed, or even
possible biomask and biofuels can play arole, but that comes with trade offs
as well. So actually, abig part of what our organization is working
on right now is mapping that thermalenergy transition, which viably could happen within
key regions based on infrastructure, basedon grid and ultimately the abilities that suppliers
(12:18):
in those regions can have to makethat transition. Now we're talking in large
part about Asia, which has grownand dominance by cutting the cost production.
Is there the capital and the willto make the necessary investments in Asia to
make this transition while preserving the affordabilityof our clothes. You really nailed it
(12:39):
on the head. The capital.Yes, the capital is there. There's
no shortage of funding finance available.It's connecting that capital, those funds,
with the will and ultimately the businesscase for deploying of those funds. And
that's kind of the sweet spot whichAI has found ourselves in identifying good projects
(13:00):
that are fund worthy or worth acapital investment, and then ultimately trying to
drive business friendly solutions in the formof business to business commitments and engagement that
gives that production facility the confidence thator even the bank the confidence that this
is a good loan based on acommitment or a point of reference or even
(13:22):
a guarantee in some cases, thata brand or retailer can have that this
is a long range plan. Becausewe start to look at longer term investments
that are needed in this supply chainand In many cases, that supplier,
that manufacturer is looking out six totwelve months ahead and really just looking to
ensure that they're keeping their lights onin most cases, and when we start
(13:43):
to look at ten to fifteen yearhorizons for some of these investments, there
really is a shared benefit that needsto be accounted for across the banks,
even the development banks, and thepail retailers and who are bringing this work
forward based on the aspirations that they'veset for themselves and rightfully so, to
(14:05):
be more conscious of how those goodsare being produced. So are the labels
funding the clean by Design program whereyou are working to create that greener supply
chain. Yeah, when it comesto environmental improvements, we've seen a significant
uptick in brands and retailers who arewilling to contribute to those efforts. Typically,
(14:28):
though it's been on the part ofconsulting and management practices, the actual
investment historically has fallen on the supplierthemselves. And so you can imagine,
and rightfully so, that those suppliersand manufacturers have a right and a reason
to question, why does this fallsolely on me? How can we provide
some shared experience or some shared responsibilityin these long term interventions that ultimately will
(14:54):
benefit the industry as a whole.And so what AII has historically done is
facilitated the consulting, the roadmapping,the target setting for our brand partners but
also supplier partners that we work with, and then we identify where projects within
those action plans of achieving a targetcan be fundable, and that's where we
can layer in some of the fundingthe finance and bank interest in seeing some
(15:18):
of these longer term aspirations come tofruition. Now, the other thing about
the low cost production methodology is anequity question. Two percent of the world's
seventy five million clothing factory workers earna living wage. At this point,
do you see these organizations really readyto step up both to make the workplace
more equitable and safe. I thinkit's a need. And actually, when
(15:43):
we look at the work historically doneby our team, by our organization,
we've been fairly purposeful in defining thescope of what we do solely on environmental
impacts. What we recognize though,is that that siloed view is not going
to get the necessary change that's neededfor this industry. And so we can
very simply look at environmental improvements likereducing the heat needed for manufacturing as improving
(16:08):
the workplace environment for the workforce acrossthis industry, but taking that one step
further, those environmental improvements are alsoreducing energy needs from the grid itself,
providing more consistent energy in the regionswhere we're deploying this work. And then
on the water side, ensuring thateffluent is effectively treated within the industry is
(16:30):
directly affecting the communities where the workis being done. And so we're on
an ongoing basis building that gap orfilling that gap rather between what has historically
been a very separated and purposely separatedset of activities on environment and social indicators,
and we look to partners within thisindustry for collaboration on where we can
(16:53):
influence and provide support to those sociallabor work aspects of the industry that are
taking shape. So again we're kindof back to the idea of externalities.
A lot of the things that wehave purposely pushed aside in order to focus
on one aspect of the supply chainnow need to be taken into consideration as
(17:14):
a whole. And the use ofcoal fired boilers that improves local air quality
and certainly the quality of the airwithin the production facility, but then you
know the grid benefits and so forth. All of that we need to think
about in order to achieve the lowercosts that we continue to want to see
(17:34):
our clothes sold. That, yeah, and what you're addressing also is a
kind of a controversial topic within thisindustry altogether, and that is the role
of fast fashion or the reliance onlow cost clothing within this industry that I
guess, even as a consumer,I've continually seen the quality of clothing production
(17:57):
decrease over time. I'm based onthose low cost aspirations. It's more of
a throwaway culture, which I thinkthat there would be some great benefit if
we were to slow perhaps the buyingprocesses within this industry, which, as
you can imagine, becomes a bitcontroversial when you look at a market approach
(18:18):
to building the industry as it is. But ultimately, I do think that
we're at a bit of an inflectionpoint, both as an industry and perhaps
as a society if you want togo that far, in terms of our
buying practices and what that means foran industry such as fashion, where speed
has become very much the norm.Low cost has become very much the norm,
(18:40):
and ultimately the externalities that that haswell, the just in time way
that we make and use everything needsto change. I want to take a
quick commercial break and come right backand talk more. Now, let's get
back to the conversation with the ChiefImpact Officer the Apparel Impact Institute, Kurt
Kipka. So, Kurt, followingon what we were just talking talking about,
(19:00):
do you see the fashion industry aspotentially being ready to sell less and
more durable clothing and potentially build inmore services like local mending and tailoring to
bring some of the production closer tothe consumer. Yeah, I think there
are clear signs both in terms ofthe brands or the industry taking a part
(19:21):
in that high durability repair concept.But then also on the government side,
we're seeing expectations increase around or acrossEurope rather fairly significantly about the durability and
expectations that would be applied to goodsand services within that region in particular,
and you could expect that that mightexpand to other regions like the US and
(19:42):
Asia as well. But coming backto the industries or areas of the industry
where this is already starting to takeshape, you're seeing a lot of uptick,
or in fact, we're seeing alot of uptake in the outdoor industry
in particular, where there's goods andservice that are ultimately being built for long
term durability. Someone wants to buya parka or a jacket and have that
(20:06):
last ten twenty years, and it'simportant that the products are set up to
do so. And with that,you're seeing an investment by a number of
those outdoor brands and retailers, bothin terms of ensuring that there's quality and
durable products being brought forward, butalso that those repair services, exchange services,
take back services are all being incorporatedinto the way that they're doing business.
(20:30):
What I do think still remains tobe seen, and this is the
gap for some of the fashion orfaster fashion retailers, is the appropriate business
mechanism or the business case rather forensuring that if we're taking back, if
we're repairing, that there's a businessmodel that is going to support that.
And there's a number of different levellevers Ultimately that perhaps could be another conversation
(20:55):
we get into that would allow forthat to happen. Both in terms of
GOVERNMNT intervention and supply chain intervention thatcould allow for that to happen. But
we're seeing that increase overall. Themomentum I think is building, but I
think it could be faster to behonest part of the rather than regulate this,
(21:17):
which I think everybody would have adifficult time with, from the consumer
to the manufacturer being told what todo. Does the industry need to embrace
an ethos of durability and communicate thatis one of the key selling points to
consumers. Should we be talking moreabout the fact that I bought outdoor clothing
in nineteen eighty eight that I stillhave because it was well made. Is
(21:40):
that values based change something that theindustry is really actively discussing. I think
in pockets, yes, And Ithink that consumers have a lot to do
with this. That there is aconsumer base that's growing and is growing in
the expectations that it has as ofclothing and in product durability overall. Meanwhile,
(22:03):
there's also a growing consumer base thatis looking for just in time fashion,
just in time customization of products thatactually flies somewhat in the face of
these concepts of durability and longstanding productsthat people are buying, and so on
a personal level, I'd love tosee the industry continuing to dive into this
(22:27):
and to grow the durability and qualityof products and that bubble of the industry
overall. The reality is that there'sstill an incredibly huge portion of the supply
chain and of the products being soldthat are low cost and I would say
relatively lower quality than one might expectfor something that's going to last from the
(22:49):
nineteen eighties to now, in theway that we might view something like an
outdoor person. Well, I've beengoing all the way to the labels.
Could they be making their retail centersa repair and reuse and sharing center as
well? Not just you know,you go there to buy stuff and then
(23:10):
throw that away, but that becomesthe hub before your fashion life. I
do think that that gets to kindof this future state of where the industry
could or should be going, andin fact, that would be my vision
for this industry, that we havethese hubs not only for apparel, but
for all products that are take backcenters, ultimately feeding the supply of product
(23:33):
back into a circular which is abuzzword within this industry today. But a
recyclable supply chain, bringing those goodsand inputs right back into the supply chain
where they came from, and doingthat on a local basis. So ultimately,
if I were to paint a pictureof a perfect industry, it would
look something like that. And ultimatelythat's something that we can work towards.
(23:56):
And as of right now, thebiggest challenge is just getting those proper exkids
and services and feeding them into anysupply chain. And so there are baby
steps that can be taken on apath to getting towards that vision of future
model. Well, how does AIIuse the Fashion Climate Fund to instigate some
of those changes? Are there programs? I know most of this is focused
on the supply chain side, butwhere are you putting your money to work
(24:19):
right now? Yeah, thanks forasking. The Fashion Climate Fund is a
really exciting new fund that we announcedabout a year ago, a year and
a half ago now, based onthe interests of a number of key players
in this industry or stakeholders in thisindustry to begin looking longer term in nature
with the kind of investments that they'remaking in the supplier base. Having been
(24:41):
conducting implementation work on the ground inthis industry. One thing that has really
hindered or slowed the progress even ofbrands in this industry to make meaningful progress
with their suppliers is a short termnature of the types of relationships they may
have with a facility or with agiven project. Even grand funding for projects
(25:03):
can be something around three years innature. Well, when we're looking at
targets within this industry looking out totwenty thirty to twenty fifty, the reality
is that there are some interventions thatwe can fund and that we can deploy
within the industry that with a longerterm view, a longer pipeline of those
activities that we feel that we canbe driving more scaled impact. And that's
(25:29):
what the Fashion Climate Fund ultimately seeksto do, to aggregate funding of like
minded organizations who have a vested interestin achieving in most cases, science based
targets that they've set for themselves.Recognizing that there's not a go to loan
strategy that I've seen that can beproven to be successful. So this aggregated
model is one that puts our teamand our organization kind of in the middle
(25:52):
of identifying quality, value added solutionsfor the industry with a longer trajectory of
twenty thirty and so a big partof my role in fact is playing this
kind of centerpiece between the Fashion ClimateFund and a deployment mechanism we've created called
the Climate Solutions Portfolio. That isa portfolio of projects, technologies, equipment
(26:15):
ultimately that we're actively seeking to buildthat have validated proven impacts within the apparel
supply chain in order to decrease carbonthat's being used in production. And I
am a part of and work withan advisory console that looks at the effectiveness,
reach, and scale of the typesof projects, equipment, and solutions
(26:37):
that the industry has to kind ofsort through on this path of decarbonization,
and that ultimately becomes the output ofthis Fashion Climate Fund is a number of
different projects and solutions that come throughthe Climate Solutions Portfolio, where we can
layer on brand funding, where wecan provide additional research where needed most driving
(27:02):
the potential impact with a dollar incarbon reduction out mentality of the way that
we're doing the work now, youknow, I was going through some of
the clean by Design programs and itseems like the aim for let me put
the modest games between ten and twentypercent less energy US between twenty and thirty
percent less water use. That doesn'tsound like we get to twenty thirty goals,
(27:27):
which require roughly a fifty to fiftyfive percent reduction in emissions, which
energy is associated with how do westay below one point five degree centigrade and
stay well dressed. You're exactly rightthat Clean by Design and programs like it
historically have looked at low hanging fruitor very clear efficiency gains front production,
(27:49):
beginning to look at more sophisticated solutionslike layering on renewable energy solar PD installation
as the market has made it amore or lucrative or a clear business case
for deployment. The reality is thatwe need to move beyond low hanging fruit
with kind of work that we're doing, and that really is represented in the
(28:11):
work that we're doing around the FashionClimate Fund. Whereas a program like Clean
by Design really focused on being kindof a gateway to more sophisticated solutions.
We're bridging that gap now within theprograms and the types of interventions that we're
bringing forward. Looking longer term innature, are the prospects for fifty percent
(28:32):
improvement by twenty thirty or twenty thirtytwo. Good, it's there, I
will say that, And I wouldactually bring it back to your point earlier
about funding and will and some ofthe barriers that exist in this industry are
funding, paying for these projects,mapping a business case for some of these
projects, ensuring that there's a clearpath to not only the impact reductions,
(28:59):
the carbon reductions. I'll try tolose the impact terminology here, the carbon
reductions, but then also the returnon investment from a financial standpoint, which
is a key part of what ourorganization aims to do. Not just providing
validation of this particular project is goingto save you x amount of carbon,
but it's also going to deliver allowyou to pay for it over time with
(29:22):
the savings or with the expectations thatyou might have for that investment as well.
So the prospects are absolutely there,and in fact, even on the
energy efficiency side of the equation,I have still to yet, I still
have yet to tap out that asa viable path to that fifty percent reduction
there is. It's actually what's drawnme to this work. There is an
(29:44):
endless amount of efficiencies to be gainedin the production process simply with looking at
how production is being done on amacro level, there are pockets and sites
that are doing an amazing job atbeing efficient. The industry as a whole
is incredibly inefficient. Well William S. Gibson put it, well, the
future is already here. It's justvery unevenly distributed. But yeah, you
(30:07):
know, we are talking about anindustry whose supply chain is shipping dependent,
and of course, if sea levelrises even a foot and a half in
many places, that will completely disrupttheir supply chain. So there's the industry,
and this goes to the question ofwill get that they have to reduce
their impact in order to avoid havingtheir business completely disrupted if they can't change,
(30:32):
do they recognized their living on aborrowed time? I think that that
recognition is there for many leaders inthis industry or many of the organizations who
would position themselves as a leader inthis industry. And I can even trace
my own personal story to this recognition, dating back to fifteen years ago when
I first started taking an interest inthis concept of sustainability as it relates to
(30:53):
supply chain. There is a recognitionthat the world is changing and that with
that, the models that have gottenus to where we are today within this
sector, are not necessarily going tobe quote unquote sustainable in the future state
of this industry. The challenge,I think, though, is what to
do now with that realization, andpart of I would love to say the
(31:18):
argument for working with an organization likeours is the ability to begin looking at
some of that scenario planning in acollective fashion, recognizing that one brand deciding
to take a particular path may notchange the industry as a whole, but
a set of ten, fifteen,twenty of the leading organizations accounting for a
large volume of this industry working towardsmutually beneficial solutions for the sector going forward,
(31:42):
that's where we can start to tipthe scale a little bit in terms
of where this industry needs to goin order to truly be sustainable in nature.
Now, one of the things thatyou emphasize is the importance of third
party validation or certification of the work. What labels, what certification should shoppers
be looking for or or retailers whenthey're thinking about what to stock. Yeah,
(32:06):
there's a number of labels out there, the ecotech label, ecotech label,
and you know, actually, Iwould be a little bit weary of
claims. Certifications can be helpful oncertain products. Organically certified, ecotext certified,
blue sign produced are a couple ofthe terms that are thrown out in
(32:28):
this industry. What I would bea little bit weary of is carbon neutral,
climate positive things that are a littlemore opaque that that couldn't be that
may not be clear for the consumer. Ultimately, though, what I would
really look for is quality products.Uh And I would even look towards the
(32:51):
brand itself, if at all possible, beginning to look at a brand's website
and look at what type of practicesthey put into place, because ultimately that's
what drives my buying practices. Ihave the privilege to know some of these
brands quite well and know their supplychains quite well, and in a way,
you can almost have a default buyingmechanism put in place that knows that
(33:14):
at least this brand's making an effort, they're having an attempt. They've got
the right policies and procedures in placeto ensure that they're doing good work within
their supply chain. But as faras labels are concerned, it's still perhaps
a white space opportunity for this industryto put forth something along the lines of
a nutrition label, so to speak, on products that would allow the buyer
(33:34):
to make a more informed decision.Well, I think the story of our
clothing is something that is a hugeopportunity in terms of engaging people because we
also want to tell our own stories. You know where this came from.
It was made by somebody like this, it has this material and going one
step past the certification, what materialsshould a shopper be looking for if they
want to reduce their impact? Itreally varies, to be very honest with
(34:00):
you. Natural products are are apositive. I would say the use of
cotton, organic cotton, big pluses. Recycled materials are incredibly important. We're
seeing not just in this industry,but the proliferation of placed plastics or or
petrol based materials being incorporated into whatwe work with on a day to day
(34:23):
basis. That can be of greatconcern. But at the same time,
taking a look at the origins ofthose materials, but then also the makeup
of those materials is incredibly important aswell. Are there three or four questions
that you asked before you pull somethingoff the rack and decide to buy it,
(34:45):
To be honest with you, Idon't buy a whole lot. Okay,
so that's a good thing. That'sa good thing. But yes,
and you know, I mentioned itas well that I feel, you know,
I'm kind of in the middle ofthis industry, for example, and
so I know a number of organizationsthat I trust ultimately with the buying practices
(35:06):
that I put forward, and soI don't buy a whole lot. But
I'll say outside of this industry,I do actually go to websites of some
of the manufacturer some of the brandsthat exist in other sectors like electronics or
home goods in order to make thatassessment, because ultimately, there isn't a
silver bullet, so to speak,from a labeling standpoint on the environmental side
(35:28):
of the equation that's going to giveme the confidence not just from an environmental
impacts of production standpoint, but tothe point you made earlier about quality and
durability. That's probably my chief concernas well when it comes to the products
that I'm buying, is that they'regoing to last for the time frame that
I expect them to. And reallythat comes down to the reviews by the
other people who have purchased it didit last. So again, tying in
(35:52):
everybody rather than taking just one narrowview of this industry is the key to
being a better and shopper. Iagree you said, well, so,
Kurt, this is great advice.How can folks follow both your work and
what the Apparel Impact Institute does.I appreciate you asking. We're on all
(36:13):
social channels. We have a reallygreat website that's about to undergo a refresh
with some really fun I guess froma nerd like me, standpoint fun reports
for anyone who's looking to learn moreabout that clothing journey which you described.
It's all out there, where theimpacts come from, where the product is
made, how it's made. Thosecan all be found on our website,
(36:36):
and then of course I'm on socialmedia at Kurt Kika on Twitter and then
on LinkedIn as well. I'm happyto be connected with your listeners or anyone
interested in this kind of journey thatthe fashion and peril sector is taking.
Well. It's going to be along and important journey, and I hope
folks connect with you. Thanks Kurtvery much for spending time with us today.
(36:59):
Thank you may that's my pleasure.That was my conversation with Kurt Kipka.
He's the Chief Impact Officer at theApparel Impact Institute, and you can
learn more about the organization and itswork at apparelimpact dot org. Apparel Impact
is all one word, no space, no dash, Apparel Impact dot org.
(37:19):
You how fashion reflects the times andthe speed of product updates and clothing
choices, as well as in consumerelectronics and automobiles and everything else, are
the signature ideas of the early twentyfirst century economy. Having connected the world,
we sped it up and encouraged alot more consumption, and now we
can see the consequences in extreme weatherand rising costs. The supply change are
(37:40):
strained not just by pandemics, butby rising seas drought that raises the price
of natural fibers like organic cotton,and well the full gamut of climate change
impacts that are really disrupting our lives, and we're seeing only the beginning of
that disruption today. So Kurt madean important point, and one I think
we need to keep in mind thatthere's no single silver bullet solution. A
(38:04):
sustainable economy won't be built on onechange like recycling more clothing, though that's
an important behavior that we need toembrace as part of a bigger picture.
The new, more local economy canallow clothing labels to participate in our lives
differently, making their retail outlets ahub for reuse and repair services. Maybe
adding new experiences like enabling the resaleof their clothing, perhaps by offering certified
(38:28):
refurbished items that they collect from customers, mend and then resell, could open
new paths to revenue. So today'sfast fashion item that costs ten dollars and
is worn one, two or threetimes before being discarded could become a durable
piece of clothing that is sold,resold, loaned, or traded in many
times, with the fashion label earningrevenue at each turn. Is the facilitator
(38:52):
of the experience of shopping for quality, long lasting clothing. I mean,
actually, what we really want isthe entertainment of buying stuff. Keep buying
the same stuff over and over insteadof making new stuff all the time.
That's a more sustainable outcome. Whoknows we might soon see a reduce,
reuse and recycle centric fashion industry insteadof the take, make waste model that
(39:15):
dominates today. So of course we'llkeep an eye on this story. Folks,
stay tuned. I hope you'll takea moment to share this podcast or
any of the more than four hundredand forty interviews that we've done on Sustainability
in Your Ear with your friends andfamily. Writing review on your favorite podcast
platform. That is going to makethe biggest difference in helping your neighbors find
us. Folks, you're the amplifiersthat can spread more ideas so we create
(39:37):
less waste. So please tell yourfriends, your family, your coworkers.
They can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Audible or any
other fine purveyors of podcast goodness thatthey prefer. Thanks for your support.
I'm Mittrackliff. This is Earth nineone one's Sustainability in your Ear and we
will be back with another innovator interviewsoon. In the meantime, take care
(39:59):
of yourself, take care of oneanother, and let's all take care of
this beautiful planet of ours. Havea green day.
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