This week I'm chatting with Rebecca Sananés, an accomplished executive producer and journalist. We get into her impressive career trajectory from public radio to leading podcasts for high-profile talent such as the Duke and Duchess of Sussex aka Prince Harry and Megan Markle. Rebecca shares her thoughts on professional nerves, the perpetual journey of improving one's craft, and the importance of self-awareness in career decisions. She also touches on the overlooked opportunities in the podcasting industry behind the microphone and the common misconception that producing successful podcasts is easy. Tune in for insightful anecdotes, career advice, and an inspiring dialogue about navigating the complex, yet rewarding world of podcasting.
00:00 Introduction and Host's Welcome
00:46 Guest Introduction: Rebecca Senanez
02:05 Rebecca's Career Journey and Achievements
03:24 Working with the Duke and Duchess of Sussex
06:50 Craft and Creativity in Podcasting
12:54 Self-Awareness and Career Decisions
15:51 The Reality of Podcasting Industry
22:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
00:00 Introduction and Host's Welcome
00:46 Guest Introduction: Rebecca Senanez
02:05 Rebecca's Career Journey and Achievements
03:24 Working with the Duke and Duchess of Sussex
06:50 Craft and Creativity in Podcasting
12:54 Self-Awareness and Career Decisions
15:51 The Reality of Podcasting Industry
22:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is amazing media production. Welcome to the switch Pivot
of Quid podcast, where we get real and dig deep
into the stories of our peers to find out their strategies,
their solutions and insights you need to help inform your
career transition decisions. I'm your host, Ayanna Angel, and my
(00:24):
hope is for this podcast to help you ask yourself
the hard questions, for you to become more self aware,
and for you to ultimately break through whatever is holding
you back from taking a chance on you and the
life you truly desire. Today, I have a special guest
(00:48):
with me. Her name is Rebecca Senanetz. Rebecca is an
executive producer, journalist and media personality. She built her award
winning career in public radio, where she produced the ultra
popular podcast pivot Ooh See a Connection There with Kara
Swisher and Scott Galloway, as well as Land of the Giant,
(01:10):
which is a narrative series about the rise of the
behemoth that is Amazon. And Rebecca most recently was the
inaugural head of Audio at Archworld Audio, overseeing the creative
partnership between the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. I always
feel like that's gonna be a tongue twister for me
(01:30):
between the Duke and Duchess. Am also known as Harry
and Meghan and Spotify. So most recently, she was also
the co creator of Megan's and executive producer of Meghan's
podcast Archetypes. So we are excited to speak with Rebecca
today because we are, as she was telling me before
(01:51):
we started recording, we are catching her at a very
interesting moment in life, and so let's dive into that conversation. Rebecca,
welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Thank you so much for having me, Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Okay, so you've accomplished a lot in your career. So
these days, what can cause you to get nervous professionally?
What can make your stomach turn and still like give
you the oh, oh my gosh, I think I have
to go to the bathroom. Maybe not, maybe it's just nerves.
What can make you nervous professionally these days?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
To be honest, all the same things that made me
nervous when I started my career. I just reached out
to one of my all time heroes in the industry
to ask to interview him, and you know, I forget
that I'm like, oh no, Now I'm in a place
where like we're peers and I really deserve to interview
(02:44):
this person. And so the answer is almost everything. It's
just that I have the narrative on top of that
now where I'm like, Eh, you've done this before, you
can do it again. Everything is okay, but still, you know,
you would think the things would just go away, and
maybe one day they will, but so far it's there,
(03:06):
and then I have to figure out how to get
over that hump.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, you're right, you would think that it goes away.
But I think we are waiting for this moment where
we will feel one hundred percent confident in everything we do.
But if we're constantly trying to push ourselves, that's probably
just not the case. I'm very curious to know how
did this working relationship with the Duke and Duchess and
(03:33):
overseeing their partnership with Spotify, Like how did all of
that come to be?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
This was like in a weird period in audio where
like everything was happening like this was like a really
buzzy you know, the Obama's head and then suddenly the
Duke and Duchess had I was working for Pivot at
New York Magazine at the time, and somebody on LinkedIn
reached out to me and said, there's a job open
(04:02):
with Spotify, and you know, I'm wondering if you'd be interested.
And I'm somebody who like I've learned. I'm like, yeah,
just take the call, like doesn't matter, see where it goes.
And the call was like these two very well known people,
or maybe not even two, a very well known entity
is looking to make podcasts at the intersection of entertainment
(04:24):
and social justice. And I was like, say less, you know,
like this is the absolute dream, you know, like everything
else aside. But they didn't tell me who it was.
And then I stopped to sort of think about it.
I was like, sure, like I'll keep that conversation going,
like whatever, it is just the fact that somebody wants
to make podcasts at that intersection at this exciting time,
(04:46):
and I was like, who could this be? And I
kind of like poked around a little bit. I'm like,
who has deals with Spotify that could be this thing?
And I was like, oh, this is who I think
it is. I think about that often when I'm like,
what's what's the dream of what could happen? And I
hope that other people take this way. Is like, one day,
out of the blue, somebody reached out to me and
(05:07):
asked me if I wanted the craziest job on planet Earth.
So it happens, you know, like it just it can happen.
And yeah, that's the truth is it fell into my lap.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And you were open. That's a part of the beauty.
When you are open, you don't know what could come
your way. You're just like kind of feeling it and
letting things flow. And that's the best experiences sometimes.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Absolutely, I find for me oftentimes the thing that I'm like,
what's the biggest possible dream and I write it down,
I'm like, it could look like this, and it could
be this money, and it could be this opportunity, and
the universe is like okay, sweetie, and then like triples,
it doubles. It is like the thing that you couldn't
even like your imagination couldn't stretch that far because you
(05:56):
were you know, like never in my wildest dreams, when
I was working in a tiny, middle of nowhere public
radio station in a basement, was I like, this is
going to lead me to the Prince of England, you know,
like you can't. You can't really fathom no matter how
ambitious you are, no matter how you much you want
(06:17):
stuff is like there's something else that's going to be
like and here's here's what you couldn't have even fathomed exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So how would you describe that experience working with such
high profile talent business owners? How would you describe that
experience for you professionally? And maybe was there anything that
you specifically took away from that experience, like a key
(06:45):
learning that you're like, oh, I'll take this with me.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I learned everything in that experience. I learned so much
by being there and I can't like fully go into it.
But I think the thing that I truly if I'm
to like distill it down into the thing that I
will take everywhere is at the end of the day,
it's about the craft. Period. It doesn't matter if you're
working with the biggest tech company and the biggest celebrities
(07:10):
in the world, or you're working on your own personal project, like,
it does not matter. Craft is going to win it
every single time. And that is what you have to
come back to, and that's what you have to hold sacred.
And that is what I have to give, and that's
what I have to give in every scenario. So I
(07:30):
think that's what I would take, is that, like there's
no end of getting better at your craft and leaning
on your craft and like truly caring for that craft.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
What types of things do you find yourself doing to
lean into getting better at your craft.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I really try to play and have fun with it.
Something that I is just sort of a gift that
I feel really lucky to have is I'm very good
at being like, hmmm, here's a fun idea. Like those
come to me all the time, and when I'm doing
my job as a creator, I'm like, Okay, let me
take that idea and let me try and put it
(08:07):
into reality somehow. And so sometimes that's just a matter
of like putting something together, you know. Like a couple
months ago, I was like, let me just write a
concept for a show for the sake of writing a
concept for the show. And I didn't really go anywhere
and I didn't really need anything, but I made like
a little teaser for what it would sound like and
(08:28):
what it was. And now I'm writing for Vanity Fair
and so things come to mind. I'm like, I think
I'm curious about this thing, and then I go and
try and write it. I wish that with creativity there
was just an end where you're like, oh, got it.
Now I'm good at this. I don't have to grow anymore.
I'm never you know, like it's never, I'm never going
(08:50):
to be bad. But like, that's just not true. I
play a lot, and in fact, I think even in
my most professional projects, a lot of that always starts
out with play. It has to. There is no this
is going to work, this is what people want from me?
(09:10):
You know, there is none of that. There's only like,
I think this is interesting. I think I would listen
to this. Here is how I would listen to it
and sort of like starting to sketch it out and
then things get you know, bigger and bigger and bigger.
But yeah, I just playing.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
What's something that you would have wanted to know about
the journey to.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Be kinder to yourself? There were so many times in
my journey where I was like, I didn't think I
was where I was supposed to be. I was afraid
I was never gonna get there. I was really attached
to other people's opinions of me, of my work, of
(09:53):
whether they liked me or not, Like I was so
much more externalized and I was so much less sure
that it was all going to work out and it's
gonna be okay, it's gonna be okay. Just keep showing
up every day, and in that showing up, don't be
so hard on yourself. You don't have to be so intense.
It doesn't have to be so stressful. I think, going
(10:16):
back to that first question you ask me, which is
what still rattles me, is now I have that perspective
when things get a little dicey and I'm like, I
don't know what's gonna happen next, and are people gonna
buy my work? Do people? I'm like, okay, let's slow
down and be like you've been here before. You've been
here before, you know what it's like to try new things.
(10:37):
You know what it's like to be unsure exactly what's next,
and like who had your back then? And who's gonna
keep having your back? And how did it work out then?
And how is it gonna work out in the future.
And the answer is I have my back, whatever is
around me has my back, and it worked out better
than I ever could have expected. So yeah, to give
yourself some grace when it doesn't look like what you
(11:00):
think it's supposed to look like, because we all go
through it.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Going off of your last answer, my burning question is
do you ever procrastinate constantly?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yes, all the time, all the time. But here's what
I will say. Here's what I will say. So like, yes,
literally constantly. My house is never cleaner when I'm supposed
to be doing something else, like all the time. True,
Like I mean like everything suddenly magically gets done when
I'm like, oh, I need to be working on something.
(11:34):
But I will say, what often happens for me that
I have to like trust the process, so to speak,
is all of a sudden, it will come and it'll
feel like I'm procrastinating, but really I'm like I'm having
thoughts about the thing that I'm writing. Like when I
write something, I often write it in my head first,
(11:54):
and then I'm like hopefully close enough to something to
like put it down on paper start to think. But
that's what often happens to me, is like I'll guilt
myself and be like, oh, I should have worked on
this today, I should have worked on this day, should
have worked on this, And then all of a sudden
It'll be like Thursday evening at nine pm, and I'll
be like, oh, there it is, and then I'll sit
down for like five hours and get something really really
(12:18):
big out. And I will also say for me and like, again,
this is mostly about writing and creating my hardest part.
And I don't know if this is true for everybody,
but it's like once I have a first draft down,
once I have something on paper, then I get less
stressed by it. I'm more likely to be like, oh,
I can chip at this slowly. So it's really that
(12:38):
first draft that I procrastinate on.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Okay, hold time for me for just one minute. Okay,
maybe two, but I promise we will be right back
after we hear from our sponsors. When you think about
the decisions that you make with your career, what role
do you think you're self awareness plays in your decision making.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think my career was so much harder before I
learned how to be self aware, for one thing, because
I was so much more reactive to the things that
were happening around me that were not necessarily in my control.
But because I didn't really know who I was in
those things, I would try to control them, you know,
I was just talking to a friend of mine who
(13:25):
is a very well known podcast host and producer, and
he was saying how his career really took off when
he was doing a report on something that was had
to do with his identity, and he cried on microphone
and he really expressed something earnest about something we were
(13:46):
all experiencing, and it opened up something really really big
in him, and it gave the audience that connection to him,
and he said that, like ever since then, that's really
been It is like sometimes he comes as a journalist,
but sometimes he's coming to the audience as their real
friend and authentic person. And I think I keep seeing
this with like TikTok, and like we want that authenticity
(14:11):
from the people around us. We really want to feel
like they're just a human and that they're vulnerable. And
I'm getting somewhere with this, which is to say that
it is incredibly hard to be vulnerable and open and
authentic if you do not really know who you are
on the inside, because otherwise it's really really scary, right,
(14:32):
Like if you are self aware enough to be like
I know who I am, I know what my values are,
I know where they rely, I know what I'm saying
is coming from a place of integrity and care, even
if it's imperfect. Then you can be authentic and open
with people, and then your whole creative space, the way
you talk to people, the way you forgive yourself. You know,
(14:55):
I can't say enough. Going to therapy was the best
thing I ever did for my career, my life, the
whole Like it's it changes the way you function in
the world. Now, there's so many things that when I
was younger, I'd be like, ugh, like sure, sure, sure that.
Like now I'm like, yes, now, now I get it
(15:17):
when they talk about like healing those things and yeah, like,
you can't have a season of me if you don't
know who me is, because then you are just going
to be somebody else.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Ooh, Rebecca, I think that was a whole word right there.
You can't have a season of me if you don't
know who me is.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yes, absolutely not. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Wow, we can end the interview there, And I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It just came out. I mean, you were an amazing interviewer.
I didn't even know I felt that way.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
We got to it to the heart of it. Okay,
So I want to switch gears a little bit. Do
you think that people are overlooking some of the behind
the scenes options for work in podcasting because everyone wants
to be on the mic. Now It's like, Okay, I
was saying something at a conference where I was saying,
you know, I feel like so many people, especially celebrities
(16:10):
or notable people, want to have a podcast because it's
a money grab. It's a way that they see themselves
being able to make money. Maybe not in this very moment,
but there was a time where I feel like all
the agents were like, you need a podcast. We need
to be able to assign some money and some value
to this. But I think that people don't realize there's
(16:32):
a whole industry that's behind some of the most popular
podcasts or the things that you enjoy listening to. Do you?
I guess you're not in your head. For those that
you can't see her, she's no in her head. So
what do you talk to me about? What do you
think about people just overlooking the career possibilities in the industry?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay, so I have like, how long do you have?
I have literally a millionis on this, But I guess
let me start by saying that I love making podcasts.
It is so much fun if you are a writer,
if you have a musicality to you, if you are curious,
(17:12):
if you like, like, so many skills and thought goes
into it. And so let me just start there by
saying it is an immensely fun medium and fulfilling and
you do not have to be on the microphone to
do it period. You know. The other thing, it's so
(17:34):
funny because I'm literally I'm working on an article which
by the time this comes out will have been published
for Vanity Fair. And I've been like looking into like,
why is it that podcasting has this weird you know,
like every other industry. I would never be like, oh, yeah,
I should just make a hit TV show. That'll be easy,
(17:55):
you know what I mean? Like, why is that? Like
there's no other industry where you're like, huh, that seems
like that's a cash grab and should be easy.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
That looks doable, that looks double architect.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Pretty yeah, like whatever it is. Yeah, like seems like
I should just do that. Get my agent on the
phone and let me start doing that. And for whatever reason,
podcasting that's and I think that that's starting to change
for a lot of reasons. But I found this quote.
I went back and I did like a little bit
of research. And so when Steve Jobs back in two
(18:30):
thousand and five announced that Apple was going to start,
you know, making podcasts part of its big brand. That
was the same year that the Oxford Dictionary added podcasts
to the dictionary. Steve Jobs is on stage, you know,
with the black turtleneck and the you know he's doing
like the Apple thing, and he says to the audience
that podcasting has been described as Wayne's World for radio,
(18:55):
which means that anyone without much capital investment can make
a podcast, put it on a server, and get a
worldwide audience for their radio show. And I was like, like,
there it is. Yeah, from very early on, from like
the first time, from the first moments, it comes part
of our culture, you know. And like, I don't think
(19:16):
Steve Job's meant to do this. I think he was
trying to get people to be like this is so
exciting and this is the future and whatnot. But I
think two decades later, like here we are, we still
have this imagination. And so the problem with that is
that some of the most brilliant people I know are
(19:36):
making podcasts. And then there's this thing where it's like, oh,
this is so easy, and it's like two white guys
in a basement, you know, talking to a mic. It's
the easiest thing in the world. And I'm not saying
that that's not a possibility for somebody, but it just
overlooks like I know people in this industry who are
my favorite writers, who are my favorite composers, who are
(19:58):
my favorite conversational It's like there is so much to
it that gets sort of gilded over because of that
cultural imagination about it. But then as a result, the
people who are making their living trying to make podcasts
and not be celebrities building their brand, they aren't getting
the money, you know, like all of the money is
(20:19):
going to the celebrities to that yeah, it's going up top,
which again, like I said, is true everywhere, but I
think is especially true in podcasts just because we think
it's cheap and easy and anybody can do it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
There is no other industry when you think about it
like that, where people just think, oh, I can do that.
That seems easy enough. Let me try my hand at it,
and not just try my.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Hand at it, but like let me get a hit
with it. You know, Like what I've been doing recently
is I've been doing a lot of consulting, and I've
been saying to people like, let's just go through the
pilot process of your podcast. Let's not think about your
hit podcast three seasons down the line where you're scooping
up awards. What happens in one episode? What is the format?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
The foundation?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, Like, what is it that you're doing? What are
you saying that's different than this person? How long is
it if you're doing it every week? Are you recording
on Mondays and turning it around by Wednesday?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
What is it we're doing here? And when I tell
you the amount of people that get through that process
and they're like, oh, no.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Thank you, this is a lot of work. Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Lot of work and it's not what I thought it
was gonna be. And and I will also say, I
promise you going through that process is going to make
it like you on it. You know what you're doing now,
you know the people that you want to talk to, Like,
it must be much easier to go and produce this
podcast rapidly now that you know what you're doing and
what your taste is and what the sound is and
(21:51):
who's the right guest for it and what your format is.
Then if you were just like, I don't know, I
want a podcast and we'll figure it out every single week.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, let's see what's Yeah, let's just see what sex. Yeah, exactly,
You'll be doing a little bit of everything. You'll constantly
be pushed in different directions. You'll have no signposts that
you can look to, and neither will your audience. Thank
you so much, Rebecca. I appreciate you sharing your time
with us today.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Thank you so much for having me well.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
As always, you all, thank you for listening, Thank you
for spending time with us, and be well. This podcast
is produced by Maziemedia. Maze Media as a woman led
(22:39):
podcast production company that works with small businesses and corporations.
Visit mazimedia dot com for more details on how you
and your organization can go from ideation to podcasting.
This is amazing media production. Welcome to the switch Pivot
of Quid podcast, where we get real and dig deep
into the stories of our peers to find out their strategies,
their solutions and insights you need to help inform your
career transition decisions. I'm your host, Ayanna Angel, and my
(00:24):
hope is for this podcast to help you ask yourself
the hard questions, for you to become more self aware,
and for you to ultimately break through whatever is holding
you back from taking a chance on you and the
life you truly desire. Today, I have a special guest
(00:48):
with me. Her name is Rebecca Senanetz. Rebecca is an
executive producer, journalist and media personality. She built her award
winning career in public radio, where she produced the ultra
popular podcast pivot Ooh See a Connection There with Kara
Swisher and Scott Galloway, as well as Land of the Giant,
(01:10):
which is a narrative series about the rise of the
behemoth that is Amazon. And Rebecca most recently was the
inaugural head of Audio at Archworld Audio, overseeing the creative
partnership between the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. I always
feel like that's gonna be a tongue twister for me
(01:30):
between the Duke and Duchess. Am also known as Harry
and Meghan and Spotify. So most recently, she was also
the co creator of Megan's and executive producer of Meghan's
podcast Archetypes. So we are excited to speak with Rebecca
today because we are, as she was telling me before
(01:51):
we started recording, we are catching her at a very
interesting moment in life, and so let's dive into that conversation. Rebecca,
welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Thank you so much for having me, Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Okay, so you've accomplished a lot in your career. So
these days, what can cause you to get nervous professionally?
What can make your stomach turn and still like give
you the oh, oh my gosh, I think I have
to go to the bathroom. Maybe not, maybe it's just nerves.
What can make you nervous professionally these days?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
To be honest, all the same things that made me
nervous when I started my career. I just reached out
to one of my all time heroes in the industry
to ask to interview him, and you know, I forget
that I'm like, oh no, Now I'm in a place
where like we're peers and I really deserve to interview
(02:44):
this person. And so the answer is almost everything. It's
just that I have the narrative on top of that
now where I'm like, Eh, you've done this before, you
can do it again. Everything is okay, but still, you know,
you would think the things would just go away, and
maybe one day they will, but so far it's there,
(03:06):
and then I have to figure out how to get
over that hump.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, you're right, you would think that it goes away.
But I think we are waiting for this moment where
we will feel one hundred percent confident in everything we do.
But if we're constantly trying to push ourselves, that's probably
just not the case. I'm very curious to know how
did this working relationship with the Duke and Duchess and
(03:33):
overseeing their partnership with Spotify, Like how did all of
that come to be?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
This was like in a weird period in audio where
like everything was happening like this was like a really
buzzy you know, the Obama's head and then suddenly the
Duke and Duchess had I was working for Pivot at
New York Magazine at the time, and somebody on LinkedIn
reached out to me and said, there's a job open
(04:02):
with Spotify, and you know, I'm wondering if you'd be interested.
And I'm somebody who like I've learned. I'm like, yeah,
just take the call, like doesn't matter, see where it goes.
And the call was like these two very well known people,
or maybe not even two, a very well known entity
is looking to make podcasts at the intersection of entertainment
(04:24):
and social justice. And I was like, say less, you know,
like this is the absolute dream, you know, like everything
else aside. But they didn't tell me who it was.
And then I stopped to sort of think about it.
I was like, sure, like I'll keep that conversation going,
like whatever, it is just the fact that somebody wants
to make podcasts at that intersection at this exciting time,
(04:46):
and I was like, who could this be? And I
kind of like poked around a little bit. I'm like,
who has deals with Spotify that could be this thing?
And I was like, oh, this is who I think
it is. I think about that often when I'm like,
what's what's the dream of what could happen? And I
hope that other people take this way. Is like, one day,
out of the blue, somebody reached out to me and
(05:07):
asked me if I wanted the craziest job on planet Earth.
So it happens, you know, like it just it can happen.
And yeah, that's the truth is it fell into my lap.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And you were open. That's a part of the beauty.
When you are open, you don't know what could come
your way. You're just like kind of feeling it and
letting things flow. And that's the best experiences sometimes.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Absolutely, I find for me oftentimes the thing that I'm like,
what's the biggest possible dream and I write it down,
I'm like, it could look like this, and it could
be this money, and it could be this opportunity, and
the universe is like okay, sweetie, and then like triples,
it doubles. It is like the thing that you couldn't
even like your imagination couldn't stretch that far because you
(05:56):
were you know, like never in my wildest dreams, when
I was working in a tiny, middle of nowhere public
radio station in a basement, was I like, this is
going to lead me to the Prince of England, you know,
like you can't. You can't really fathom no matter how
ambitious you are, no matter how you much you want
(06:17):
stuff is like there's something else that's going to be
like and here's here's what you couldn't have even fathomed exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So how would you describe that experience working with such
high profile talent business owners? How would you describe that
experience for you professionally? And maybe was there anything that
you specifically took away from that experience, like a key
(06:45):
learning that you're like, oh, I'll take this with me.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I learned everything in that experience. I learned so much
by being there and I can't like fully go into it.
But I think the thing that I truly if I'm
to like distill it down into the thing that I
will take everywhere is at the end of the day,
it's about the craft. Period. It doesn't matter if you're
working with the biggest tech company and the biggest celebrities
(07:10):
in the world, or you're working on your own personal project, like,
it does not matter. Craft is going to win it
every single time. And that is what you have to
come back to, and that's what you have to hold sacred.
And that is what I have to give, and that's
what I have to give in every scenario. So I
(07:30):
think that's what I would take, is that, like there's
no end of getting better at your craft and leaning
on your craft and like truly caring for that craft.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
What types of things do you find yourself doing to
lean into getting better at your craft.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I really try to play and have fun with it.
Something that I is just sort of a gift that
I feel really lucky to have is I'm very good
at being like, hmmm, here's a fun idea. Like those
come to me all the time, and when I'm doing
my job as a creator, I'm like, Okay, let me
take that idea and let me try and put it
(08:07):
into reality somehow. And so sometimes that's just a matter
of like putting something together, you know. Like a couple
months ago, I was like, let me just write a
concept for a show for the sake of writing a
concept for the show. And I didn't really go anywhere
and I didn't really need anything, but I made like
a little teaser for what it would sound like and
(08:28):
what it was. And now I'm writing for Vanity Fair
and so things come to mind. I'm like, I think
I'm curious about this thing, and then I go and
try and write it. I wish that with creativity there
was just an end where you're like, oh, got it.
Now I'm good at this. I don't have to grow anymore.
I'm never you know, like it's never, I'm never going
(08:50):
to be bad. But like, that's just not true. I
play a lot, and in fact, I think even in
my most professional projects, a lot of that always starts
out with play. It has to. There is no this
is going to work, this is what people want from me?
(09:10):
You know, there is none of that. There's only like,
I think this is interesting. I think I would listen
to this. Here is how I would listen to it
and sort of like starting to sketch it out and
then things get you know, bigger and bigger and bigger.
But yeah, I just playing.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
What's something that you would have wanted to know about
the journey to.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Be kinder to yourself? There were so many times in
my journey where I was like, I didn't think I
was where I was supposed to be. I was afraid
I was never gonna get there. I was really attached
to other people's opinions of me, of my work, of
(09:53):
whether they liked me or not, Like I was so
much more externalized and I was so much less sure
that it was all going to work out and it's
gonna be okay, it's gonna be okay. Just keep showing
up every day, and in that showing up, don't be
so hard on yourself. You don't have to be so intense.
It doesn't have to be so stressful. I think, going
(10:16):
back to that first question you ask me, which is
what still rattles me, is now I have that perspective
when things get a little dicey and I'm like, I
don't know what's gonna happen next, and are people gonna
buy my work? Do people? I'm like, okay, let's slow
down and be like you've been here before. You've been
here before, you know what it's like to try new things.
(10:37):
You know what it's like to be unsure exactly what's next,
and like who had your back then? And who's gonna
keep having your back? And how did it work out then?
And how is it gonna work out in the future.
And the answer is I have my back, whatever is
around me has my back, and it worked out better
than I ever could have expected. So yeah, to give
yourself some grace when it doesn't look like what you
(11:00):
think it's supposed to look like, because we all go
through it.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Going off of your last answer, my burning question is
do you ever procrastinate constantly?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yes, all the time, all the time. But here's what
I will say. Here's what I will say. So like, yes,
literally constantly. My house is never cleaner when I'm supposed
to be doing something else, like all the time. True,
Like I mean like everything suddenly magically gets done when
I'm like, oh, I need to be working on something.
(11:34):
But I will say, what often happens for me that
I have to like trust the process, so to speak,
is all of a sudden, it will come and it'll
feel like I'm procrastinating, but really I'm like I'm having
thoughts about the thing that I'm writing. Like when I
write something, I often write it in my head first,
(11:54):
and then I'm like hopefully close enough to something to
like put it down on paper start to think. But
that's what often happens to me, is like I'll guilt
myself and be like, oh, I should have worked on
this today, I should have worked on this day, should
have worked on this, And then all of a sudden
It'll be like Thursday evening at nine pm, and I'll
be like, oh, there it is, and then I'll sit
down for like five hours and get something really really
(12:18):
big out. And I will also say for me and like, again,
this is mostly about writing and creating my hardest part.
And I don't know if this is true for everybody,
but it's like once I have a first draft down,
once I have something on paper, then I get less
stressed by it. I'm more likely to be like, oh,
I can chip at this slowly. So it's really that
(12:38):
first draft that I procrastinate on.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Okay, hold time for me for just one minute. Okay,
maybe two, but I promise we will be right back
after we hear from our sponsors. When you think about
the decisions that you make with your career, what role
do you think you're self awareness plays in your decision making.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I think my career was so much harder before I
learned how to be self aware, for one thing, because
I was so much more reactive to the things that
were happening around me that were not necessarily in my control.
But because I didn't really know who I was in
those things, I would try to control them, you know,
I was just talking to a friend of mine who
(13:25):
is a very well known podcast host and producer, and
he was saying how his career really took off when
he was doing a report on something that was had
to do with his identity, and he cried on microphone
and he really expressed something earnest about something we were
(13:46):
all experiencing, and it opened up something really really big
in him, and it gave the audience that connection to him,
and he said that, like ever since then, that's really
been It is like sometimes he comes as a journalist,
but sometimes he's coming to the audience as their real
friend and authentic person. And I think I keep seeing
this with like TikTok, and like we want that authenticity
(14:11):
from the people around us. We really want to feel
like they're just a human and that they're vulnerable. And
I'm getting somewhere with this, which is to say that
it is incredibly hard to be vulnerable and open and
authentic if you do not really know who you are
on the inside, because otherwise it's really really scary, right,
(14:32):
Like if you are self aware enough to be like
I know who I am, I know what my values are,
I know where they rely, I know what I'm saying
is coming from a place of integrity and care, even
if it's imperfect. Then you can be authentic and open
with people, and then your whole creative space, the way
you talk to people, the way you forgive yourself. You know,
(14:55):
I can't say enough. Going to therapy was the best
thing I ever did for my career, my life, the
whole Like it's it changes the way you function in
the world. Now, there's so many things that when I
was younger, I'd be like, ugh, like sure, sure, sure that.
Like now I'm like, yes, now, now I get it
(15:17):
when they talk about like healing those things and yeah, like,
you can't have a season of me if you don't
know who me is, because then you are just going
to be somebody else.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Ooh, Rebecca, I think that was a whole word right there.
You can't have a season of me if you don't
know who me is.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yes, absolutely not. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Wow, we can end the interview there, And I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It just came out. I mean, you were an amazing interviewer.
I didn't even know I felt that way.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
We got to it to the heart of it. Okay,
So I want to switch gears a little bit. Do
you think that people are overlooking some of the behind
the scenes options for work in podcasting because everyone wants
to be on the mic. Now It's like, Okay, I
was saying something at a conference where I was saying,
you know, I feel like so many people, especially celebrities
(16:10):
or notable people, want to have a podcast because it's
a money grab. It's a way that they see themselves
being able to make money. Maybe not in this very moment,
but there was a time where I feel like all
the agents were like, you need a podcast. We need
to be able to assign some money and some value
to this. But I think that people don't realize there's
(16:32):
a whole industry that's behind some of the most popular
podcasts or the things that you enjoy listening to. Do you?
I guess you're not in your head. For those that
you can't see her, she's no in her head. So
what do you talk to me about? What do you
think about people just overlooking the career possibilities in the industry?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Okay, so I have like, how long do you have?
I have literally a millionis on this, But I guess
let me start by saying that I love making podcasts.
It is so much fun if you are a writer,
if you have a musicality to you, if you are curious,
(17:12):
if you like, like, so many skills and thought goes
into it. And so let me just start there by
saying it is an immensely fun medium and fulfilling and
you do not have to be on the microphone to
do it period. You know. The other thing, it's so
(17:34):
funny because I'm literally I'm working on an article which
by the time this comes out will have been published
for Vanity Fair. And I've been like looking into like,
why is it that podcasting has this weird you know,
like every other industry. I would never be like, oh, yeah,
I should just make a hit TV show. That'll be easy,
(17:55):
you know what I mean? Like, why is that? Like
there's no other industry where you're like, huh, that seems
like that's a cash grab and should be easy.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
That looks doable, that looks double architect.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Pretty yeah, like whatever it is. Yeah, like seems like
I should just do that. Get my agent on the
phone and let me start doing that. And for whatever reason,
podcasting that's and I think that that's starting to change
for a lot of reasons. But I found this quote.
I went back and I did like a little bit
of research. And so when Steve Jobs back in two
(18:30):
thousand and five announced that Apple was going to start,
you know, making podcasts part of its big brand. That
was the same year that the Oxford Dictionary added podcasts
to the dictionary. Steve Jobs is on stage, you know,
with the black turtleneck and the you know he's doing
like the Apple thing, and he says to the audience
that podcasting has been described as Wayne's World for radio,
(18:55):
which means that anyone without much capital investment can make
a podcast, put it on a server, and get a
worldwide audience for their radio show. And I was like, like,
there it is. Yeah, from very early on, from like
the first time, from the first moments, it comes part
of our culture, you know. And like, I don't think
(19:16):
Steve Job's meant to do this. I think he was
trying to get people to be like this is so
exciting and this is the future and whatnot. But I
think two decades later, like here we are, we still
have this imagination. And so the problem with that is
that some of the most brilliant people I know are
(19:36):
making podcasts. And then there's this thing where it's like, oh,
this is so easy, and it's like two white guys
in a basement, you know, talking to a mic. It's
the easiest thing in the world. And I'm not saying
that that's not a possibility for somebody, but it just
overlooks like I know people in this industry who are
my favorite writers, who are my favorite composers, who are
(19:58):
my favorite conversational It's like there is so much to
it that gets sort of gilded over because of that
cultural imagination about it. But then as a result, the
people who are making their living trying to make podcasts
and not be celebrities building their brand, they aren't getting
the money, you know, like all of the money is
(20:19):
going to the celebrities to that yeah, it's going up top,
which again, like I said, is true everywhere, but I
think is especially true in podcasts just because we think
it's cheap and easy and anybody can do it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
There is no other industry when you think about it
like that, where people just think, oh, I can do that.
That seems easy enough. Let me try my hand at it,
and not just try my.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Hand at it, but like let me get a hit
with it. You know, Like what I've been doing recently
is I've been doing a lot of consulting, and I've
been saying to people like, let's just go through the
pilot process of your podcast. Let's not think about your
hit podcast three seasons down the line where you're scooping
up awards. What happens in one episode? What is the format?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
The foundation?
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, Like, what is it that you're doing? What are
you saying that's different than this person? How long is
it if you're doing it every week? Are you recording
on Mondays and turning it around by Wednesday?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Like?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
What is it we're doing here? And when I tell
you the amount of people that get through that process
and they're like, oh, no.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Thank you, this is a lot of work. Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Lot of work and it's not what I thought it
was gonna be. And and I will also say, I
promise you going through that process is going to make
it like you on it. You know what you're doing now,
you know the people that you want to talk to, Like,
it must be much easier to go and produce this
podcast rapidly now that you know what you're doing and
what your taste is and what the sound is and
(21:51):
who's the right guest for it and what your format is.
Then if you were just like, I don't know, I
want a podcast and we'll figure it out every single week.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, let's see what's Yeah, let's just see what sex. Yeah, exactly,
You'll be doing a little bit of everything. You'll constantly
be pushed in different directions. You'll have no signposts that
you can look to, and neither will your audience. Thank
you so much, Rebecca. I appreciate you sharing your time
with us today.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Thank you so much for having me well.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
As always, you all, thank you for listening, Thank you
for spending time with us, and be well. This podcast
is produced by Maziemedia. Maze Media as a woman led
(22:39):
podcast production company that works with small businesses and corporations.
Visit mazimedia dot com for more details on how you
and your organization can go from ideation to podcasting.
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