December 7, 2025 • 41 mins
What happens when you try to quit but your boss refuses to accept your resignation? Dana L Cox shares how that pivotal conversation transformed her from an administrative assistant crying every day to a Fortune 500 global executive—and why she eventually ended up "crispy" from burnout anyway. In this raw conversation, Dana breaks down the hidden "cultural success tax" Black women pay in corporate America, reveals the signs of burnout we dismiss until it's too late, and shares her radical reset framework for reclaiming your life. If you've ever felt like success came at too high a cost, this episode will give you permission to redefine what "having it all" actually means.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to another episode of the Switch Pivot or Quick Podcast.
I am your host, Ayanna Angel. This is a space
where we help women find the courage and clarity for
their next chapter to answer that question of what's next.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So today we're gonna be speaking with Dana L.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Cox, who is a radical reset expert and founder of
Fixed Coaching and Consulting. Dana was once a high powered
executive at a Fortune five hundred company who climbed from
administrative assistant to global executive. You're gonna wanna hear how
that pivot happened or was initiated.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Such a good story.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Dana juggled her demanding career with raising six children and
maintaining a marriage until burnout forced her to re examine
her life. After navigating her own reinvention following burnout, divorce,
and layoff, Dana now empowers high achieving women to define
success on this their own terms. She's the author of
(01:02):
two books, including her latest from Burnout to Badass, Flip
the Script on your Work Life Balance, which offers a
blueprint for women to lead smarter, protect their energy, and
thrive without sacrificing themselves without further ado.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Of course, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You are ready to get into this conversation with Dana,
So let's go. Dana, welcome to the show. It's such
a pleasure to have you, and I'm ready to jump
in this conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Are you.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I am so ready. Thank you for having me. I'm
looking forward to this chat.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So your journey took you from administrative assistant to global
executive at a fortune five hundred company, which is an
inspiring story. So can you talk to us a little
bit about what the overview of that path was like
and maybe when you realized ooh, I might be headed
for burnout.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
So let me start with the journey.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And it's interesting because I was asked to question earlier
today you know, who was the best manager you had?
And why was this person the best manager? And I
remember her vividly although she was the first woman executive
I had ever seen, like first woman, very confident, not arrogant,
(02:17):
but very much confident in herself and her own abilities,
the one woman amongst all of these men, right. But
in supporting her as her assistant, I went home cried every.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Day for most six clooks.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Now the story gets better because she is the best
boss I've ever had, Because I remember getting my then
husband to agree to allow me to like literally quit
the job because I'm like this woman making me miserable.
I went in to give her my resignation and she
refused to take my resignation, and she said, I will
not accept your resignation today, but I will accept it
(02:53):
tomorrow if you still want to give it to me
tomorrow after we have this conversation. And I was like,
where did I do that? And she said, I push
you because I see greatness in you that you don't
even realize. Now, if you are comfortable being regular at average,
(03:18):
just like the rest of the assistants out there, i'll
treat you that way. But I see more in you,
and I think that you want more for yourself. Now
go home, think about it. If you decide you just
want to be regular, I will accept your resignation tomorrow.
If you decide that you want more for yourself, that
that's truly what you want, then let's go to work.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I was like, I was trying to pick your job
up off the floor.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Girl, my whole my whole chin, Okay, my whole chin,
because I was just floored one being a young black mother,
I was working for a big company at that time,
and all the jobs I've had, I had never had
a manager of boss poor me and say that they
saw something more in me than they thought I saw
in myself. And I went home, shared it with my husband,
(04:07):
and I was like, I really thought about it all night.
And the next day I went into her office and
I said, I want more for myself. I want more
for myself, I want more from my babies. And she said,
then let's go to work.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Rip that up.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And I ripped that thing up and I ain't looked back.
I tell you, I have not looked back. And so
it has not been an easy journey because I didn't
really see a lot of women that looked like me.
So navigating the politics of corporate America or the advice
that you get, I've heard that I'm aggressive, you know,
(04:40):
and things of that nature. I'm not aggressive. I'm just
a matter of fact, I'm directing my communication.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Now you can.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Perceive it how you need to perceive it, but that
is not who I am. But I was internalizing a
lot of that negative language that was given to me
by those that didn't look like me because they were
trying to control me. And so therefore I had to
do a lot of work on myself and get clear
on who I am and my unique abilities so that
(05:07):
I could be just as confident as she was in
what I bring to the table, what I offer to
this organization, the value that I bring that nobody else
can do like me. And it's once I got resolute
and clear on that, then I began to look at
my path.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I got very clear.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I know where I am, I know where I'm trying
to go, and it's not like the next job, it's
two three jobs ahead. Because you need to have a
strategy on how you navigate your career. It's like when
you get in your car and you use your GPS right,
you put in the destination where you're going, and it
tells you turn left, turn right, go straight. In all
(05:46):
of these things, you need to know where you're going
in order for you to create the map to get there,
because that's going to help you determine the relationships you need.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
To build, who you need to build it with, right
the projects that you should probably.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Volunteer four taking on. You begin to look at the
corporate environment very differently, because if you're paying attention to
where they're investing money, then you understand where the wave
is going, where the jobs are going to be created.
Because it's about having a strategy. Whether you have a
strategy or not, you are in the game. You are
(06:20):
on the board. The question is are you the player?
Are you being played?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So how did you start to approach this idea of
developing this strategy? What tools and resources did you look
to or was this something that was just inherently in you.
Once you realize I have to develop a strategy, you
started going to work to figure out what that strategy was.
Because I know there's people who are going to hear
you say that and they're like, Okay, this sounds good,
(06:47):
But where do I even start with developing my strategy
and even figuring out where I want to go? Two, three,
four steps ahead? Because for some of us, people ask
what your five year plan is and that it feels daunting, right,
But it feels like what you're saying is in line
with that is just a bit more specific exactly.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
So I do a five year plan every year. So
when I do my five year plan, I look at
every aspect of my life, not just my career, but
my relationships, my finances, my mental health, my emotional health,
my spiritual health, because I should have a I should
have clarity on where I want to go in each
of these aspects of my life. But it can be daunting.
And I will tell you I'm an avid reader. I'm
(07:31):
an aver reader. Probably my son tells me I don't
need any more bookshelves, but my office I have four
bookshelves and they're off field. And I'm an avid reader
because my grandfather gave me a book and it was
called The Curse of Willie Lynch, and I'm like, why
is he giving me this book? And I read that
book cover to cover on a flight from Wisconsin to California.
(07:53):
There was so much in there that was eye opening
for me. Because one of the things was that black
people don't read. If you want to keep them guessing,
you want to keep them not knowing, put it in
the book because they won't read. That's when I'm like, oh, okay.
And I used to do not like to read as
(08:14):
a kid. I did not like to read as a kid,
but my grandfather would constantly give me books and literally
spend that time with me.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Now I got.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Books everywhere, but reading was a big piece for me
and finding leadership books. That's really my jam leadership books
and finding those things that were really good nuggets that
I could I could literally take away and go, I
know how to apply this. I've read this, I can
apply this. I could see myself doing this and the
(08:43):
benefit that I could garner from applying that into into
my path. The other thing is if you're the smartest
person in the room, you need a new room. So
I also had to look at my circle on the
people that I was surrounding myself with, and you know,
no disrespect to anybody, but I needed to change my circle.
(09:04):
Like I love my girlfriends and my boozy brunches.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I did not like that more right, I did not
like that more than where I was trying to go,
And so my circle had to change. I had to
be in the room with people that were going to
challenge me and my way of thinking and my way
of moving to my benefit. Right, they were supportive of
my journey and enough to tell me when my slip
(09:31):
was hanging, or when I was making a decision that
was going to derail me from the goal that I
had said that I wanted, or is that really in
alignment with what you're trying to do you need those
kind of friends, and then you can't catch an attitude
with them right when they call you out on that, right,
you need to be like, Okay, you're right, it is
(09:52):
out of alignment with where I'm trying to go. Because
alignment is also key, right, It's not just having the
goal and from a numeric perspective or anything like that,
but it's also being clear on how you would feel
when you accomplish the goal. Because if you can tap
into the feeling, then you know how it's going to feel.
Then you can pull yourself into that, you can draw
(10:13):
that to you. What you talk about, what you think about,
is what you bring about. So if you're focusing more
on what you don't have, your brisk bringing more of what.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
You don't have.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Ooh, I know it's getting good, but we'll be right
back after.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
We hear from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Going back to that burnout piece, when did you first realize?
Because you've obviously done all of this work to get
to a certain point, and I do want to touch
on what that work looked like after you had that
pivotal meeting with your manager at the time. I do
want to touch on that, but I also want to
(10:54):
just honor what did it look like and feel like,
to realize I'm losing myself maybe and I am burnt out.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So the first thing I will say is I didn't
think I was susceptible to burn out. Oh so how
about we start there, right, Because honestly, as a high achieving,
higher performing individual, you don't think like burnout.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
That's for weak people. Weak people get burnt out, right.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Lazy people because they don't have no work at it,
they get burnt out. Yeah, other people get burnt out.
I don't get burned out. I might give a tire,
I'm a sleeping on the weekend, but I don't get
burnt out. So realizing I was actually burned out was
after I had been bound.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I was crispy, okay, went on the verge of burnout.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I was crispy, Okay. They tossed me back. I literally
caught my own reflection in the kitchen window, and I
was like, who is this chick? Who is this woman
looking back at me? I'm five for three, It was
two hundred and eighty seven pounds. And there's nothing wrong
(12:04):
being thick because I listen because I still got some
thickness around here. But my body was keeping score of
all the things that I wasn't doing for myself because
I was carrying everybody else in, everybody else's needs and
putting those ahead of my own, including my kids, my spouse,
(12:25):
my mother, my in laws, the girlfriends, the job, and
the team that I was leading. Everybody's needs came before
my own, and I didn't have anything left for myself.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
And it was in that moment that I was.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Like, this success has to look different because this is
not working. It's not cute, it's not cute, and I
really needed to unpack how did I get there? Because
I didn't even realize that I hadn't even gotten there.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Okay, so we're gonna put a pin in because I
do want to go deeper into this burnout conversation because,
like you said, sometimes we might not even realize that's
exactly where you are, right So let's go back to
after you had that conversation with that manager who seems
like they were a god sent on a.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Lot of levels.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
What happened, Because we already know that she was tough
on you right before, and that's a part of the
reason for your resignation.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
What happened, What changed and how.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Did she sort of help to mold you to get
to your next steps?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And maybe an.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Easier question could even be, like, what was one of
the most impactful things that she left you with? Aside
from that conversation.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
We literally went to work, and when I said we
went to work, she would my one on ones were longer, right.
She created this safe space for me to ask questions.
She really made it clear to me that my job
as an assistant was not I wasn't just here to
type letters and do calendars and travel travel. I was
an extension of her, and therefore, being an extension of her,
(14:06):
I needed to understand the business as well as she
understood the business.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Wow, Okay, for context, what was her function or role
within the company?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
So she was our vice president of operations and technology.
I was in the financial services industry, so we focused
on the insurance side of financial services. So there's a
lot of regulations and different things like that. There were
licenses that I needed to get that were would help
(14:38):
me better understand the lens of the business. But understanding
the business was really helpful for me because then I
could understand my role and how I showed up every
day and not just from a standpoint of how many
letters I was typing in the meetings I was scheduling,
but understanding how what my contributions on a daily basis
(14:59):
contributed to the goals of that department, how it contributed
to the goals further up the chain to the organization.
So that was the biggest piece for me, was understanding
when I come in the door, I'm not just doing
a job.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
The job has value.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I needed to understand the value of the role that
I was playing, the value of my position. And so
even how I talked about the things that I accomplished shifted.
My language changed. It wasn't I scheduled X conference, right,
I put this conference together that resulted in why amount
of revenue for this organization or increase in market share.
(15:38):
I could speak about what I did in that language
so that it mattered not just to the person I supported,
but all the way up to chain, because it was
their language. It's their love language, it's the things that
matter to them.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
How long did you work with her after you guys
started doing the work, How long did it take take
you to transition to another role? And was that role
within that same company or like, what did that look like.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So I worked with her for a couple of years,
but I got promoted, and so then I took on
a team of other assistants, and so I began to
pour into them what she had poured into me. So
it became more of a unit where we were understanding
the business and things of that nature, and how we
as a unit functioned, and how we supported the broader goal,
(16:31):
not just of the department, but of the broader organization
as a whole, and kind of like I call them
mini means, But everybody had their own flavor, right, and
they had their own specialty. And I think that was
the other thing. I didn't hire people just like me.
Hired people that had a skill set. That was a
weakness for me, because you want to build the team
(16:52):
around you in order for everyone all the boats to rise,
and so as a leader, it's important to be clear
on you know, if you hire everybody that look like you,
everybody that does things like you, then you're gonna get
just a whole bunch of you and there won't be
any growth. But iron shoppers, iron you want people that
are gonna challenge your thinking, that are going to bring
(17:12):
fresh perspectives and really help you to grow as well.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
As a leader.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I think I've learned just as much from those that
I've led or people that I've mentored as they have
learned from me. And that's really the beauty of being
that type of leader, in that type of person.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
M How did you find your power in your voice
and in your presence? Because as black women showing up
in these corporate spaces, sometimes it's easy to get conditioned
to cower, you know, and not really show up fully
how you would, let's say, how we say on the street,
Like if you talk to me like that on the street,
oh you don't get it, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But in this corporate tame.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Down environment, I must maintain a certain sense of decorum
about myself and so I might not want to show
my whole ass, right, and so like, how did you
start to find that balance for you and maybe kind
of realize, Okay, this is where I will puff my
chest a little bit, but I'm always gonna hold my
(18:15):
head high and I'm never going to coward, Like, how.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Did you start to develop that well yourself?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
First of all, I there were a couple of times
I showed my whole ass or fewew and my grandma.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
My grandma was like, baby, you can't do that now
because because the mortgage come do every month, and while
Granny love you, you and the babies can't live.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Here so less.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
The number one was don't be telling them people to
meet you in the parking lot. That's not allowed at
the workplace. I was like, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am uh.
And this is a very real conversation I have with
my grandma. I was like, yes, ma'am, no more telling
people to meet me in the parking lot.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
There was a time, There was a time. I have
grown exponentially.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Okay, but it was having that conversation with her and
having that wisdom of another to say, you can defend yourself,
you can stand up for yourself, but you don't have
to do it in this manner. And I have learned
over the course of time I can cuss you out
without cussing you out and have people confused like did
(19:28):
she just cuss me out? But it takes time and
to learn the lessons. They may not got it right
all the time, but it's in the times that I
got it wrong. It's being willing to reflect and own.
I couldn't handle that better I should have handled that
differently and apologizing because I've done that and I don't
(19:51):
like to apologize, but that's been a growth for me
to be able to go back to other colleagues and say,
you know what, that was a heated and emotional conversation.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
While I stand behind the what I said.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I do apologize for how I said it because that
was not the best of me or you in that moment.
And so I can apologize for the how the what
still holds true. So it's in that and a lot
of times we don't want to own the mistakes that
we made, but it'sn't owning your mistakes. It allows you
(20:26):
to have the power with them and no one else
can hold that over you.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, okay, so you had to do what you call
a radical reset. Yes, okay, So can you explain sort
of what that entails in How does that differ from
maybe typical self care practices or.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Things that we would lean on. Yeah, that's a differ.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
So radical resets are really those things that would have
taken your thes out, Like life deals, you some things
that could be catastrophic, right, and you can choose to
stay there or you can choose to get up right,
and those for me are radical resets, and we all
(21:15):
have those moments in life. So for me, my first
radical reset was a job loss, and they took us
into two rooms like they do on American Idol. Okay,
and you like, okay, normally the whole departments in one
big room, but they had us split into two rooms.
(21:37):
Nobody really thought anything about it. Well, one room got
told that they still had the job. The other room,
the room I was in, we was told our jobs
were it were ended immediately. So by nine o'clock in
the morning, I ain't got no job. Oh god, no
job I have. I have six children at home.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
And we were still in the early stages of grieving
the loss of our seventh child, who it will have
been twenty five years ago. That was also so I'm
still healing from that ritt for reset. Right, you lose
a child and you still have six that you have
to parent and the job you have to do, and
you really don't have the time and the space to
(22:18):
grieve the way you need to grieve truly, so you
just kind of wipe me knuckle your way through it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
So then this happens.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It wasn't even two weeks, my now ex husband goes
to work and his job is gone. So our two
income households went who's still grieving the loss of a kid.
We went from two incomes to zero incomes and six
kids asking us what's for dinner?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
So you could either stay there wallow in it, or
you can do something about it, right, and so we
needed to do something about it. I'm like, okay, guys, look,
you put us here for a reason. There's a lesson
than everything. But I can't. I can't not get up.
I don't have the luxury of not getting up, so
(23:09):
I'm gonna get up. I got up after the loss
of Charles, I got up after the loss of that job.
But I did not want to ever be in that
situation again where we have no job, no money, no plan.
It's with these moments in life that really could take
your knees out. And thank god they didn't all happen
(23:30):
at the same time, but any one of them independently
can be something.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
That just wipes you out.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Those are for me as radical resets. It's how do
you take those opportunities to pivot and really bring beauty
from those ashes? And that's what the radical recepts are
for me. They're very different from self care and things
of that nature, because I think that self care the
society has really kind of given us this whole idea
that self care like manni petties and spots and all
(23:58):
of that. And don't get me wrong, I love a
good spot. Oh I love the spot. But it's really
about how do you do things differently for yourself to
allow you to fill your cup? What are the things
that fill your cup? Do you even know?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Right?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Do you give yourself time and space to just do nothing?
Do you say yes to everything? All the yes is
that you say to everything and everyone else?
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Is a notice something that is meaningful to you?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, that's a that's a deep way of looking at it.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You have to then start to reprioritize. Yes. Yeah, it
forces you, It does.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It really does force you. And I think one thing
that we don't really think about is as we are
striving for success, right, there's a I call it a
success tax. Right, we pay a tax in the strive
for our ambitions.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
It's an emotional, it's mental, it's relational, it's a physical
toll that that we pay on the process of making
it and sometimes even after making it right, it's the
hidden costs that's in the fine print that you probably
didn't read.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
You've got the title, you got the cellar, you got
the recognition, But at what cost? Right, being the go
to person all the time, having no room to fail
because people expect you to always have it figured out
in life and in work, you know, losing friendships or
intimacy due to overworking or not necessarily being fully present
(25:32):
in those moments because you are checking email or instant
messages or responding to your boss or something to that effect.
Feeling guilty for wanting more or something different.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Right, even after you achieve.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
The success, you know, the role, maybe you want something
different and then you feel guilty, I shouldn't want something different.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Or we stay in.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Roles or relationships out of obligation instead of the joy
that they bring.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
And that could be jobs, right, Yeah, relationships or roles
right absolutely place.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Standing in place.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Because of just the obligation of it or not. I
like to say, you need to stay ready, so you
have to get ready.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
There are so many people in the economy right now
that never thought that they would be on this side
of unemployment. Yeah, that are getting ready because they haven't
touched their resume.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
In twenty years. Yeah, having interviewed in that long.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Right, what are some of the signs of burnout that
people often dismiss.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Or just miss?
Speaker 4 (26:45):
You know it burnout?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Really it looks different for every person, right, it is
really it's not just tired. Right, there is a mental
toll it, you know, Like I said, it can affect
your relationships.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
But we never really slow down enough.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
To even pay attention to what's happening around us.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Right. Are you always eating on the go? Yeah? I know.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
For me, part of my assessment was, heck, I don't
even sit down at the table. I think every meal
was done in the car, Like at least eighty percent
of the meals were done in the car because the
kids are I'm going to work, I'm going to school,
the kids got activities. We just in the car, go go, go. Now,
I make time and space to sit down at the table,
(27:34):
no distractions, a phone, sit down at the table.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Actually cheat my food, right, swallowing, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Waste it it tastes good.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yeah, But also protecting your time. There's so many people
that are dialed in and connected all the time. We
feel this need to be connected all the time. I
left my house there without my phone, and I remember,
like Jones in for a minute, like oh my god,
I gotta go back and get a phone.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
But I didn't come back. I didn't come back to
get my phone.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
And I lived, I did not die, and.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It was the best thing. So now when I go
out for my walks, I don't even take it. It
gives me a chance to be out in nature, be
free with my thoughts, and just have an experience unattached, untethered.
So protecting your time with the same fierceness that you
would a deadline, right, and releasing the guild around being
(28:33):
available twenty four to seven, and making peace with being
misunderstood by people who benefit from from your lack of boundaries.
A lot of times we don't forgive ourselves because we
didn't put boundaries in place. But boundaries are your friend. Yeah,
they are your friend. Yeah, you gotta use you gotta
(28:53):
use them. And no, everybody's not going to be comfortable
with you putting boundaries in place.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
That's okay. They will live, they will not die, and.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Neither will Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
You've talked about cultural success tax and the idea of that.
When you talk about the cultural success tax, specifically with
black women in mind, what does that mean to you?
What does that look like and feel like? How should
one be thinking about navigating it?
Speaker 4 (29:28):
You know, it's like.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
The respectability aspect, right, It's always needing to be on
and poised and polished and unproblematic.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
We talked about this earlier, about like how do you
advocate for yourself without taking it to the streets?
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Right?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
We always want to be neat and proper because lord
forbid they think we aggressive. We don't want to be
a problem.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
The pressure as a black woman to always over deliver
so you're not labeled as lazy or angry or ungrateful.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Look, let's talk about the hair thing, right, straight hair
over the curls or in my case, no hair.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I used to be just like you. Yeah, I'm growing
it out now, right.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
It's you know, blazers over boldness is like dressing the part,
trying to fit in and adjusting ourselves.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
The cost of that self constant self monitoring, shrinking our
personalities just to be accepted, you know, not being able
to show up unapologetically that's who we are, right, How
we need to outperform our peers just to be have
equal recognition.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Okay, hold type for me for just one minute, Okay,
maybe two, but I promise we will be right back
after we hear from our sponsors. So what what are
some things that we should keep in mind when we're
trying to break away from this cultural success tax?
Speaker 3 (31:08):
So for me, I think it's really important for us
as women to really define what success looks like for us,
versus using someone else's definition of success.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Right.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
I am a firm believer that we as a women.
I really think anybody can do this, but I for me,
we as women can have it all. But you get
to define what all looks like for you, and that
all may differ for the you today versus the you
two years from now, but it's your definition and no
one gets to tell you that your definition is wrong,
(31:40):
just like they. Your feelings are your feelings and they
are just as valid, right, But your definition is your
definition and it is also as valid.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Well.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Oftentimes we are looking for someone else to co sign
on what we want or agree with us, versus being
willing to stand in want. After thirty three years of
marriage and choosing to divorce, and no one understands it. Yeah,
but everyone's like, why would you do that? It's that
(32:12):
it's been a long time, but but I needed to
make the decision that was best for me.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Ooh, talk to us more about making the decision that's
best for you and being settled with said decision. I
was just recently having a conversation with someone and they
were talking about how people around them didn't understand the
decision that they made and how that felt, and it
felt heavy and there was some sorrow associated with it,
(32:42):
and I was like, yeah, I understand that, because when
I made the decision to completely upend my life and
choose to go after another career path, no one understood
what I was trying to do. Nobody saw it coming
from the outside looking in, everything seemed like it was
going the way that it was supposed to go. And
(33:03):
so I think that even people who didn't say out
loud and question my thinking and my decision making, they
questioned it right and and I didn't.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I got to a point where I was so.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Over my situation and ready to just be myself and
live in my fullness, and I knew that there was
more out there for me that I actually didn't care what.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Other people thought.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
But let's go into the situation where somebody does care, right,
and it feels heavy when you've made a decision that
you now feel like you have to explain away. Talk
talk to me about that, like how did you navigate that?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
So I'm like you, I don't care.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I don't care.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Committity, Yeah, I don't care committee. But when you do care,
I think you have to come and.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
To a place of yourself.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Where you get to where we are, and that's the journey,
right And I think for those that do care right
where someone else's opinion of your decision really does matter,
I think you need to ask yourself why why does
that person's opinion of what I've decided as an adult
person matter to me so much? Because there's a route
(34:28):
to something there. And then the other question I would
definitely offer is when was the first time somebody's opinion
of what I decided.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Mattered to me?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Go back, Go back, because what you're feeling in that
moment is not the first time you felt it. It's
a trigger to something earlier, and so it will continue
to show itself until you heal the thing. And so
you need to understand why is this occurring for me?
I used to care like I needed everybody's approval. It
(35:03):
wasn't right unless I was stamped by the best. And
where I am right now is if my eyes open
in the morning, Yeah, I've been stepped stamped by the blessed.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I am approved. I don't need anybody else's opinion or
approval for the day.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
So from your book from Burnout to Badass, you have
a framework that mentions strategic energy management, digital mastery, and
relationship architecture. Can you share, if possible, one practical strategy,
(35:41):
maybe from each of these areas that our listeners could
look to implement right now?
Speaker 4 (35:49):
So I'll start with.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
The digital piece, right, because I think we are we
are strapped to these things all the time. Right, Look
at how many notifications you have? Turn it on, turning
those off? Do you use focused time? Put your phone
in the bed in a completely different room, on a
(36:10):
completely different floor. I know you will probably shake a few,
a few draws. You're gonna have a little withdrawal, but
it will be okay. Right, Like, look at how you
are living your life with this digital device, or how
the how it is really controlling your habits.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Right when you're at.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Dinner, put it put it away, Yeah, and be fully
present with the people you're eating a meal with. I've
gone out to dinner literally, and I kid you, not everybody.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
On their phone.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, everybody is on their phone, but we are sitting
at dinner together.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yes, it's like hello, am I here my hair?
Speaker 4 (36:55):
And like, did you see what I just what I
just posted on you?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Are you really having this common session?
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Like really, no, I didn't see because I'm looking at
I'm looking at you.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Ask the people for a bread basket. Put all the
songs in the bread basket so that you can actually connect.
Because I think that the one thing that we're missing
is the personal connection that we used to have long
before these devices entered our lives. Yeah, and there's a
richness in reconnecting with the human person beyond the digital piece, right,
(37:27):
and also making time to break away. I moved away
from my you know, my bookshelves to because the kids
gave me a device. Mama, Now you can carry more
books with you all at once. And I really got
excited because I do my bad getting a little heavy
because I might have three ful books in my back
I'm really excited. It was just another trap. Yeah, it
(37:50):
was another trap, And I'm like, I can't because now
I got all the other apps on here and all
the other things. Is now just encroaching on something that
I really enjoy, which is reading uninterrupted. So just think
about what are where are the roles that digital devices
are playing in your life, and then do an inventory
(38:12):
of that and figure out how you can really pair
back so that you can be more fully present for yourself,
for your relationships and things of that nature.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
I think is really really important.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
And I actually I'm trying as I'm thinking, I can't
remember if the Digital Mastery is one of the free
downloads when you get the book. There's some of that
as you get.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
But noted that there are free downloads.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
If people decide to purchase the book, there are downloads
that accompany it. I love that absolutely. Okay, before we
wrap up, I know we didn't touch on all of
the aspects, but I want to get this question in
before we wrap up. If our listeners could just take
one action after hearing this conversation, something they can walk
(38:59):
away with, what would that be for you?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I would say, I want your listeners to really give
themselves permission to hope for more, want for more, and
to strip away everybody else when they're thinking about that process.
It's not about your mother, your father, your sister, your brother,
your girlfriends or your significant other or even your children.
(39:22):
If it was just you standing nicked, what would you
want for yourself?
Speaker 4 (39:28):
What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And if you can get crystal clear on that picture,
you can achieve it and so give themselves permission to
want and hope more for more, stripping everybody else away.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
M h. Thank you so much, Dana for spending time
with us today. Let everybody know where they can keep
up with you and find out more about you and
your work.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, absolutely so. You can follow me on LinkedIn Dana L.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Cox.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
I'm there all the time.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I'm available on Instagram and Facebook as well, but you
can also check out my website Danaelcox dot com.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Love it to Thank you so much again and to
all of you listening.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I hope that you are listening.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Close you getting your burnout situated if that's something that's
creeping up on your shoulder, and hopefully you know you're
able to find some tools from this conversation, go seek
out some more conversations because or resources, let's even say.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Because I know. As you mentioned earlier in our conversation, Dana.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Resources by way of books is a great way to
find your way through some of the tougher things that
you may encounter in this world, and obviously Dana's book
is a great resource as well. From Burnout to Badass Hello,
but thank you all so much for spending time with
us today, and until next time, be well.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Tete Depen
Welcome to another episode of the Switch Pivot or Quick Podcast.
I am your host, Ayanna Angel. This is a space
where we help women find the courage and clarity for
their next chapter to answer that question of what's next.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
So today we're gonna be speaking with Dana L.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Cox, who is a radical reset expert and founder of
Fixed Coaching and Consulting. Dana was once a high powered
executive at a Fortune five hundred company who climbed from
administrative assistant to global executive. You're gonna wanna hear how
that pivot happened or was initiated.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Such a good story.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Dana juggled her demanding career with raising six children and
maintaining a marriage until burnout forced her to re examine
her life. After navigating her own reinvention following burnout, divorce,
and layoff, Dana now empowers high achieving women to define
success on this their own terms. She's the author of
(01:02):
two books, including her latest from Burnout to Badass, Flip
the Script on your Work Life Balance, which offers a
blueprint for women to lead smarter, protect their energy, and
thrive without sacrificing themselves without further ado.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Of course, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
You are ready to get into this conversation with Dana,
So let's go. Dana, welcome to the show. It's such
a pleasure to have you, and I'm ready to jump
in this conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Are you.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I am so ready. Thank you for having me. I'm
looking forward to this chat.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
So your journey took you from administrative assistant to global
executive at a fortune five hundred company, which is an
inspiring story. So can you talk to us a little
bit about what the overview of that path was like
and maybe when you realized ooh, I might be headed
for burnout.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
So let me start with the journey.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
And it's interesting because I was asked to question earlier
today you know, who was the best manager you had?
And why was this person the best manager? And I
remember her vividly although she was the first woman executive
I had ever seen, like first woman, very confident, not arrogant,
(02:17):
but very much confident in herself and her own abilities,
the one woman amongst all of these men, right. But
in supporting her as her assistant, I went home cried every.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Day for most six clooks.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Now the story gets better because she is the best
boss I've ever had, Because I remember getting my then
husband to agree to allow me to like literally quit
the job because I'm like this woman making me miserable.
I went in to give her my resignation and she
refused to take my resignation, and she said, I will
not accept your resignation today, but I will accept it
(02:53):
tomorrow if you still want to give it to me
tomorrow after we have this conversation. And I was like,
where did I do that? And she said, I push
you because I see greatness in you that you don't
even realize. Now, if you are comfortable being regular at average,
(03:18):
just like the rest of the assistants out there, i'll
treat you that way. But I see more in you,
and I think that you want more for yourself. Now
go home, think about it. If you decide you just
want to be regular, I will accept your resignation tomorrow.
If you decide that you want more for yourself, that
that's truly what you want, then let's go to work.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I was like, I was trying to pick your job
up off the floor.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Girl, my whole my whole chin, Okay, my whole chin,
because I was just floored one being a young black mother,
I was working for a big company at that time,
and all the jobs I've had, I had never had
a manager of boss poor me and say that they
saw something more in me than they thought I saw
in myself. And I went home, shared it with my husband,
(04:07):
and I was like, I really thought about it all night.
And the next day I went into her office and
I said, I want more for myself. I want more
for myself, I want more from my babies. And she said,
then let's go to work.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Rip that up.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And I ripped that thing up and I ain't looked back.
I tell you, I have not looked back. And so
it has not been an easy journey because I didn't
really see a lot of women that looked like me.
So navigating the politics of corporate America or the advice
that you get, I've heard that I'm aggressive, you know,
(04:40):
and things of that nature. I'm not aggressive. I'm just
a matter of fact, I'm directing my communication.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Now you can.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Perceive it how you need to perceive it, but that
is not who I am. But I was internalizing a
lot of that negative language that was given to me
by those that didn't look like me because they were
trying to control me. And so therefore I had to
do a lot of work on myself and get clear
on who I am and my unique abilities so that
(05:07):
I could be just as confident as she was in
what I bring to the table, what I offer to
this organization, the value that I bring that nobody else
can do like me. And it's once I got resolute
and clear on that, then I began to look at
my path.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
I got very clear.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I know where I am, I know where I'm trying
to go, and it's not like the next job, it's
two three jobs ahead. Because you need to have a
strategy on how you navigate your career. It's like when
you get in your car and you use your GPS right,
you put in the destination where you're going, and it
tells you turn left, turn right, go straight. In all
(05:46):
of these things, you need to know where you're going
in order for you to create the map to get there,
because that's going to help you determine the relationships you need.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
To build, who you need to build it with, right
the projects that you should probably.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Volunteer four taking on. You begin to look at the
corporate environment very differently, because if you're paying attention to
where they're investing money, then you understand where the wave
is going, where the jobs are going to be created.
Because it's about having a strategy. Whether you have a
strategy or not, you are in the game. You are
(06:20):
on the board. The question is are you the player?
Are you being played?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So how did you start to approach this idea of
developing this strategy? What tools and resources did you look
to or was this something that was just inherently in you.
Once you realize I have to develop a strategy, you
started going to work to figure out what that strategy was.
Because I know there's people who are going to hear
you say that and they're like, Okay, this sounds good,
(06:47):
But where do I even start with developing my strategy
and even figuring out where I want to go? Two, three,
four steps ahead? Because for some of us, people ask
what your five year plan is and that it feels daunting, right,
But it feels like what you're saying is in line
with that is just a bit more specific exactly.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
So I do a five year plan every year. So
when I do my five year plan, I look at
every aspect of my life, not just my career, but
my relationships, my finances, my mental health, my emotional health,
my spiritual health, because I should have a I should
have clarity on where I want to go in each
of these aspects of my life. But it can be daunting.
And I will tell you I'm an avid reader. I'm
(07:31):
an aver reader. Probably my son tells me I don't
need any more bookshelves, but my office I have four
bookshelves and they're off field. And I'm an avid reader
because my grandfather gave me a book and it was
called The Curse of Willie Lynch, and I'm like, why
is he giving me this book? And I read that
book cover to cover on a flight from Wisconsin to California.
(07:53):
There was so much in there that was eye opening
for me. Because one of the things was that black
people don't read. If you want to keep them guessing,
you want to keep them not knowing, put it in
the book because they won't read. That's when I'm like, oh, okay.
And I used to do not like to read as
(08:14):
a kid. I did not like to read as a kid,
but my grandfather would constantly give me books and literally
spend that time with me.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Now I got.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Books everywhere, but reading was a big piece for me
and finding leadership books. That's really my jam leadership books
and finding those things that were really good nuggets that
I could I could literally take away and go, I
know how to apply this. I've read this, I can
apply this. I could see myself doing this and the
(08:43):
benefit that I could garner from applying that into into
my path. The other thing is if you're the smartest
person in the room, you need a new room. So
I also had to look at my circle on the
people that I was surrounding myself with, and you know,
no disrespect to anybody, but I needed to change my circle.
(09:04):
Like I love my girlfriends and my boozy brunches.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
I did not like that more right, I did not
like that more than where I was trying to go,
And so my circle had to change. I had to
be in the room with people that were going to
challenge me and my way of thinking and my way
of moving to my benefit. Right, they were supportive of
my journey and enough to tell me when my slip
(09:31):
was hanging, or when I was making a decision that
was going to derail me from the goal that I
had said that I wanted, or is that really in
alignment with what you're trying to do you need those
kind of friends, and then you can't catch an attitude
with them right when they call you out on that, right,
you need to be like, Okay, you're right, it is
(09:52):
out of alignment with where I'm trying to go. Because
alignment is also key, right, It's not just having the
goal and from a numeric perspective or anything like that,
but it's also being clear on how you would feel
when you accomplish the goal. Because if you can tap
into the feeling, then you know how it's going to feel.
Then you can pull yourself into that, you can draw
(10:13):
that to you. What you talk about, what you think about,
is what you bring about. So if you're focusing more
on what you don't have, your brisk bringing more of what.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
You don't have.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Ooh, I know it's getting good, but we'll be right
back after.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
We hear from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Going back to that burnout piece, when did you first realize?
Because you've obviously done all of this work to get
to a certain point, and I do want to touch
on what that work looked like after you had that
pivotal meeting with your manager at the time. I do
want to touch on that, but I also want to
(10:54):
just honor what did it look like and feel like,
to realize I'm losing myself maybe and I am burnt out.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So the first thing I will say is I didn't
think I was susceptible to burn out. Oh so how
about we start there, right, Because honestly, as a high achieving,
higher performing individual, you don't think like burnout.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
That's for weak people. Weak people get burnt out, right.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Lazy people because they don't have no work at it,
they get burnt out. Yeah, other people get burnt out.
I don't get burned out. I might give a tire,
I'm a sleeping on the weekend, but I don't get
burnt out. So realizing I was actually burned out was
after I had been bound.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I was crispy, okay, went on the verge of burnout.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
I was crispy, Okay. They tossed me back. I literally
caught my own reflection in the kitchen window, and I
was like, who is this chick? Who is this woman
looking back at me? I'm five for three, It was
two hundred and eighty seven pounds. And there's nothing wrong
(12:04):
being thick because I listen because I still got some
thickness around here. But my body was keeping score of
all the things that I wasn't doing for myself because
I was carrying everybody else in, everybody else's needs and
putting those ahead of my own, including my kids, my spouse,
(12:25):
my mother, my in laws, the girlfriends, the job, and
the team that I was leading. Everybody's needs came before
my own, and I didn't have anything left for myself.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
And it was in that moment that I was.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Like, this success has to look different because this is
not working. It's not cute, it's not cute, and I
really needed to unpack how did I get there? Because
I didn't even realize that I hadn't even gotten there.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Okay, so we're gonna put a pin in because I
do want to go deeper into this burnout conversation because,
like you said, sometimes we might not even realize that's
exactly where you are, right So let's go back to
after you had that conversation with that manager who seems
like they were a god sent on a.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Lot of levels.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
What happened, Because we already know that she was tough
on you right before, and that's a part of the
reason for your resignation.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
What happened, What changed and how.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Did she sort of help to mold you to get
to your next steps?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And maybe an.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Easier question could even be, like, what was one of
the most impactful things that she left you with? Aside
from that conversation.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
We literally went to work, and when I said we
went to work, she would my one on ones were longer, right.
She created this safe space for me to ask questions.
She really made it clear to me that my job
as an assistant was not I wasn't just here to
type letters and do calendars and travel travel. I was
an extension of her, and therefore, being an extension of her,
(14:06):
I needed to understand the business as well as she
understood the business.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Wow, Okay, for context, what was her function or role
within the company?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
So she was our vice president of operations and technology.
I was in the financial services industry, so we focused
on the insurance side of financial services. So there's a
lot of regulations and different things like that. There were
licenses that I needed to get that were would help
(14:38):
me better understand the lens of the business. But understanding
the business was really helpful for me because then I
could understand my role and how I showed up every
day and not just from a standpoint of how many
letters I was typing in the meetings I was scheduling,
but understanding how what my contributions on a daily basis
(14:59):
contributed to the goals of that department, how it contributed
to the goals further up the chain to the organization.
So that was the biggest piece for me, was understanding
when I come in the door, I'm not just doing
a job.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
The job has value.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
I needed to understand the value of the role that
I was playing, the value of my position. And so
even how I talked about the things that I accomplished shifted.
My language changed. It wasn't I scheduled X conference, right,
I put this conference together that resulted in why amount
of revenue for this organization or increase in market share.
(15:38):
I could speak about what I did in that language
so that it mattered not just to the person I supported,
but all the way up to chain, because it was
their language. It's their love language, it's the things that
matter to them.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
How long did you work with her after you guys
started doing the work, How long did it take take
you to transition to another role? And was that role
within that same company or like, what did that look like.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So I worked with her for a couple of years,
but I got promoted, and so then I took on
a team of other assistants, and so I began to
pour into them what she had poured into me. So
it became more of a unit where we were understanding
the business and things of that nature, and how we
as a unit functioned, and how we supported the broader goal,
(16:31):
not just of the department, but of the broader organization
as a whole, and kind of like I call them
mini means, But everybody had their own flavor, right, and
they had their own specialty. And I think that was
the other thing. I didn't hire people just like me.
Hired people that had a skill set. That was a
weakness for me, because you want to build the team
(16:52):
around you in order for everyone all the boats to rise,
and so as a leader, it's important to be clear
on you know, if you hire everybody that look like you,
everybody that does things like you, then you're gonna get
just a whole bunch of you and there won't be
any growth. But iron shoppers, iron you want people that
are gonna challenge your thinking, that are going to bring
(17:12):
fresh perspectives and really help you to grow as well.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
As a leader.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I think I've learned just as much from those that
I've led or people that I've mentored as they have
learned from me. And that's really the beauty of being
that type of leader, in that type of person.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
M How did you find your power in your voice
and in your presence? Because as black women showing up
in these corporate spaces, sometimes it's easy to get conditioned
to cower, you know, and not really show up fully
how you would, let's say, how we say on the street,
Like if you talk to me like that on the street,
oh you don't get it, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But in this corporate tame.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Down environment, I must maintain a certain sense of decorum
about myself and so I might not want to show
my whole ass, right, and so like, how did you
start to find that balance for you and maybe kind
of realize, Okay, this is where I will puff my
chest a little bit, but I'm always gonna hold my
(18:15):
head high and I'm never going to coward, Like, how.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Did you start to develop that well yourself?
Speaker 4 (18:21):
First of all, I there were a couple of times
I showed my whole ass or fewew and my grandma.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
My grandma was like, baby, you can't do that now
because because the mortgage come do every month, and while
Granny love you, you and the babies can't live.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Here so less.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
The number one was don't be telling them people to
meet you in the parking lot. That's not allowed at
the workplace. I was like, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am uh.
And this is a very real conversation I have with
my grandma. I was like, yes, ma'am, no more telling
people to meet me in the parking lot.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
There was a time, There was a time. I have
grown exponentially.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Okay, but it was having that conversation with her and
having that wisdom of another to say, you can defend yourself,
you can stand up for yourself, but you don't have
to do it in this manner. And I have learned
over the course of time I can cuss you out
without cussing you out and have people confused like did
(19:28):
she just cuss me out? But it takes time and
to learn the lessons. They may not got it right
all the time, but it's in the times that I
got it wrong. It's being willing to reflect and own.
I couldn't handle that better I should have handled that
differently and apologizing because I've done that and I don't
(19:51):
like to apologize, but that's been a growth for me
to be able to go back to other colleagues and say,
you know what, that was a heated and emotional conversation.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
While I stand behind the what I said.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I do apologize for how I said it because that
was not the best of me or you in that moment.
And so I can apologize for the how the what
still holds true. So it's in that and a lot
of times we don't want to own the mistakes that
we made, but it'sn't owning your mistakes. It allows you
(20:26):
to have the power with them and no one else
can hold that over you.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, okay, so you had to do what you call
a radical reset. Yes, okay, So can you explain sort
of what that entails in How does that differ from
maybe typical self care practices or.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Things that we would lean on. Yeah, that's a differ.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
So radical resets are really those things that would have
taken your thes out, Like life deals, you some things
that could be catastrophic, right, and you can choose to
stay there or you can choose to get up right,
and those for me are radical resets, and we all
(21:15):
have those moments in life. So for me, my first
radical reset was a job loss, and they took us
into two rooms like they do on American Idol. Okay,
and you like, okay, normally the whole departments in one
big room, but they had us split into two rooms.
(21:37):
Nobody really thought anything about it. Well, one room got
told that they still had the job. The other room,
the room I was in, we was told our jobs
were it were ended immediately. So by nine o'clock in
the morning, I ain't got no job. Oh god, no
job I have. I have six children at home.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
And we were still in the early stages of grieving
the loss of our seventh child, who it will have
been twenty five years ago. That was also so I'm
still healing from that ritt for reset. Right, you lose
a child and you still have six that you have
to parent and the job you have to do, and
you really don't have the time and the space to
(22:18):
grieve the way you need to grieve truly, so you
just kind of wipe me knuckle your way through it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
So then this happens.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It wasn't even two weeks, my now ex husband goes
to work and his job is gone. So our two
income households went who's still grieving the loss of a kid.
We went from two incomes to zero incomes and six
kids asking us what's for dinner?
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
So you could either stay there wallow in it, or
you can do something about it, right, and so we
needed to do something about it. I'm like, okay, guys, look,
you put us here for a reason. There's a lesson
than everything. But I can't. I can't not get up.
I don't have the luxury of not getting up, so
(23:09):
I'm gonna get up. I got up after the loss
of Charles, I got up after the loss of that job.
But I did not want to ever be in that
situation again where we have no job, no money, no plan.
It's with these moments in life that really could take
your knees out. And thank god they didn't all happen
(23:30):
at the same time, but any one of them independently
can be something.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
That just wipes you out.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Those are for me as radical resets. It's how do
you take those opportunities to pivot and really bring beauty
from those ashes? And that's what the radical recepts are
for me. They're very different from self care and things
of that nature, because I think that self care the
society has really kind of given us this whole idea
that self care like manni petties and spots and all
(23:58):
of that. And don't get me wrong, I love a
good spot. Oh I love the spot. But it's really
about how do you do things differently for yourself to
allow you to fill your cup? What are the things
that fill your cup? Do you even know?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Right?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Do you give yourself time and space to just do nothing?
Do you say yes to everything? All the yes is
that you say to everything and everyone else?
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Is a notice something that is meaningful to you?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, that's a that's a deep way of looking at it.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
You have to then start to reprioritize. Yes. Yeah, it
forces you, It does.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It really does force you. And I think one thing
that we don't really think about is as we are
striving for success, right, there's a I call it a
success tax. Right, we pay a tax in the strive
for our ambitions.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
It's an emotional, it's mental, it's relational, it's a physical
toll that that we pay on the process of making
it and sometimes even after making it right, it's the
hidden costs that's in the fine print that you probably
didn't read.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
You've got the title, you got the cellar, you got
the recognition, But at what cost? Right, being the go
to person all the time, having no room to fail
because people expect you to always have it figured out
in life and in work, you know, losing friendships or
intimacy due to overworking or not necessarily being fully present
(25:32):
in those moments because you are checking email or instant
messages or responding to your boss or something to that effect.
Feeling guilty for wanting more or something different.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Right, even after you achieve.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
The success, you know, the role, maybe you want something
different and then you feel guilty, I shouldn't want something different.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Or we stay in.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Roles or relationships out of obligation instead of the joy
that they bring.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
And that could be jobs, right, Yeah, relationships or roles
right absolutely place.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Standing in place.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Because of just the obligation of it or not. I
like to say, you need to stay ready, so you
have to get ready.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
There are so many people in the economy right now
that never thought that they would be on this side
of unemployment. Yeah, that are getting ready because they haven't
touched their resume.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
In twenty years. Yeah, having interviewed in that long.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Right, what are some of the signs of burnout that
people often dismiss.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Or just miss?
Speaker 4 (26:45):
You know it burnout?
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Really it looks different for every person, right, it is
really it's not just tired. Right, there is a mental
toll it, you know, Like I said, it can affect
your relationships.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
But we never really slow down enough.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
To even pay attention to what's happening around us.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Right. Are you always eating on the go? Yeah? I know.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
For me, part of my assessment was, heck, I don't
even sit down at the table. I think every meal
was done in the car, Like at least eighty percent
of the meals were done in the car because the
kids are I'm going to work, I'm going to school,
the kids got activities. We just in the car, go go, go. Now,
I make time and space to sit down at the table,
(27:34):
no distractions, a phone, sit down at the table.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Actually cheat my food, right, swallowing, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Waste it it tastes good.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yeah, But also protecting your time. There's so many people
that are dialed in and connected all the time. We
feel this need to be connected all the time. I
left my house there without my phone, and I remember,
like Jones in for a minute, like oh my god,
I gotta go back and get a phone.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
But I didn't come back. I didn't come back to
get my phone.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
And I lived, I did not die, and.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It was the best thing. So now when I go
out for my walks, I don't even take it. It
gives me a chance to be out in nature, be
free with my thoughts, and just have an experience unattached, untethered.
So protecting your time with the same fierceness that you
would a deadline, right, and releasing the guild around being
(28:33):
available twenty four to seven, and making peace with being
misunderstood by people who benefit from from your lack of boundaries.
A lot of times we don't forgive ourselves because we
didn't put boundaries in place. But boundaries are your friend. Yeah,
they are your friend. Yeah, you gotta use you gotta
(28:53):
use them. And no, everybody's not going to be comfortable
with you putting boundaries in place.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
That's okay. They will live, they will not die, and.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Neither will Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
You've talked about cultural success tax and the idea of that.
When you talk about the cultural success tax, specifically with
black women in mind, what does that mean to you?
What does that look like and feel like? How should
one be thinking about navigating it?
Speaker 4 (29:28):
You know, it's like.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
The respectability aspect, right, It's always needing to be on
and poised and polished and unproblematic.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
We talked about this earlier, about like how do you
advocate for yourself without taking it to the streets?
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Right?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
We always want to be neat and proper because lord
forbid they think we aggressive. We don't want to be
a problem.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Right.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
The pressure as a black woman to always over deliver
so you're not labeled as lazy or angry or ungrateful.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Look, let's talk about the hair thing, right, straight hair
over the curls or in my case, no hair.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
I used to be just like you. Yeah, I'm growing
it out now, right.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
It's you know, blazers over boldness is like dressing the part,
trying to fit in and adjusting ourselves.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Right.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
The cost of that self constant self monitoring, shrinking our
personalities just to be accepted, you know, not being able
to show up unapologetically that's who we are, right, How
we need to outperform our peers just to be have
equal recognition.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Okay, hold type for me for just one minute, Okay,
maybe two, but I promise we will be right back
after we hear from our sponsors. So what what are
some things that we should keep in mind when we're
trying to break away from this cultural success tax?
Speaker 3 (31:08):
So for me, I think it's really important for us
as women to really define what success looks like for us,
versus using someone else's definition of success.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Right.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
I am a firm believer that we as a women.
I really think anybody can do this, but I for me,
we as women can have it all. But you get
to define what all looks like for you, and that
all may differ for the you today versus the you
two years from now, but it's your definition and no
one gets to tell you that your definition is wrong,
(31:40):
just like they. Your feelings are your feelings and they
are just as valid, right, But your definition is your
definition and it is also as valid.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Well.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Oftentimes we are looking for someone else to co sign
on what we want or agree with us, versus being
willing to stand in want. After thirty three years of
marriage and choosing to divorce, and no one understands it. Yeah,
but everyone's like, why would you do that? It's that
(32:12):
it's been a long time, but but I needed to
make the decision that was best for me.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Ooh, talk to us more about making the decision that's
best for you and being settled with said decision. I
was just recently having a conversation with someone and they
were talking about how people around them didn't understand the
decision that they made and how that felt, and it
felt heavy and there was some sorrow associated with it,
(32:42):
and I was like, yeah, I understand that, because when
I made the decision to completely upend my life and
choose to go after another career path, no one understood
what I was trying to do. Nobody saw it coming
from the outside looking in, everything seemed like it was
going the way that it was supposed to go. And
(33:03):
so I think that even people who didn't say out
loud and question my thinking and my decision making, they
questioned it right and and I didn't.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I got to a point where I was so.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Over my situation and ready to just be myself and
live in my fullness, and I knew that there was
more out there for me that I actually didn't care what.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Other people thought.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
But let's go into the situation where somebody does care, right,
and it feels heavy when you've made a decision that
you now feel like you have to explain away. Talk
talk to me about that, like how did you navigate that?
Speaker 4 (33:49):
So I'm like you, I don't care.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I don't care.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Committity, Yeah, I don't care committee. But when you do care,
I think you have to come and.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
To a place of yourself.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Where you get to where we are, and that's the journey,
right And I think for those that do care right
where someone else's opinion of your decision really does matter,
I think you need to ask yourself why why does
that person's opinion of what I've decided as an adult
person matter to me so much? Because there's a route
(34:28):
to something there. And then the other question I would
definitely offer is when was the first time somebody's opinion
of what I decided.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Mattered to me?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Go back, Go back, because what you're feeling in that
moment is not the first time you felt it. It's
a trigger to something earlier, and so it will continue
to show itself until you heal the thing. And so
you need to understand why is this occurring for me?
I used to care like I needed everybody's approval. It
(35:03):
wasn't right unless I was stamped by the best. And
where I am right now is if my eyes open
in the morning, Yeah, I've been stepped stamped by the blessed.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
I am approved. I don't need anybody else's opinion or
approval for the day.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
So from your book from Burnout to Badass, you have
a framework that mentions strategic energy management, digital mastery, and
relationship architecture. Can you share, if possible, one practical strategy,
(35:41):
maybe from each of these areas that our listeners could
look to implement right now?
Speaker 4 (35:49):
So I'll start with.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
The digital piece, right, because I think we are we
are strapped to these things all the time. Right, Look
at how many notifications you have? Turn it on, turning
those off? Do you use focused time? Put your phone
in the bed in a completely different room, on a
(36:10):
completely different floor. I know you will probably shake a few,
a few draws. You're gonna have a little withdrawal, but
it will be okay. Right, Like, look at how you
are living your life with this digital device, or how
the how it is really controlling your habits.
Speaker 4 (36:32):
Right when you're at.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Dinner, put it put it away, Yeah, and be fully
present with the people you're eating a meal with. I've
gone out to dinner literally, and I kid you, not everybody.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
On their phone.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, everybody is on their phone, but we are sitting
at dinner together.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yes, it's like hello, am I here my hair?
Speaker 4 (36:55):
And like, did you see what I just what I
just posted on you?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Are you really having this common session?
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Like really, no, I didn't see because I'm looking at
I'm looking at you.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Ask the people for a bread basket. Put all the
songs in the bread basket so that you can actually connect.
Because I think that the one thing that we're missing
is the personal connection that we used to have long
before these devices entered our lives. Yeah, and there's a
richness in reconnecting with the human person beyond the digital piece, right,
(37:27):
and also making time to break away. I moved away
from my you know, my bookshelves to because the kids
gave me a device. Mama, Now you can carry more
books with you all at once. And I really got
excited because I do my bad getting a little heavy
because I might have three ful books in my back
I'm really excited. It was just another trap. Yeah, it
(37:50):
was another trap, And I'm like, I can't because now
I got all the other apps on here and all
the other things. Is now just encroaching on something that
I really enjoy, which is reading uninterrupted. So just think
about what are where are the roles that digital devices
are playing in your life, and then do an inventory
(38:12):
of that and figure out how you can really pair
back so that you can be more fully present for yourself,
for your relationships and things of that nature.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
I think is really really important.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
And I actually I'm trying as I'm thinking, I can't
remember if the Digital Mastery is one of the free
downloads when you get the book. There's some of that
as you get.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
But noted that there are free downloads.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
If people decide to purchase the book, there are downloads
that accompany it. I love that absolutely. Okay, before we
wrap up, I know we didn't touch on all of
the aspects, but I want to get this question in
before we wrap up. If our listeners could just take
one action after hearing this conversation, something they can walk
(38:59):
away with, what would that be for you?
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I would say, I want your listeners to really give
themselves permission to hope for more, want for more, and
to strip away everybody else when they're thinking about that process.
It's not about your mother, your father, your sister, your brother,
your girlfriends or your significant other or even your children.
(39:22):
If it was just you standing nicked, what would you
want for yourself?
Speaker 4 (39:28):
What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
And if you can get crystal clear on that picture,
you can achieve it and so give themselves permission to
want and hope more for more, stripping everybody else away.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
M h. Thank you so much, Dana for spending time
with us today. Let everybody know where they can keep
up with you and find out more about you and
your work.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, absolutely so. You can follow me on LinkedIn Dana L.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Cox.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
I'm there all the time.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I'm available on Instagram and Facebook as well, but you
can also check out my website Danaelcox dot com.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Love it to Thank you so much again and to
all of you listening.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
I hope that you are listening.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Close you getting your burnout situated if that's something that's
creeping up on your shoulder, and hopefully you know you're
able to find some tools from this conversation, go seek
out some more conversations because or resources, let's even say.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Because I know. As you mentioned earlier in our conversation, Dana.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Resources by way of books is a great way to
find your way through some of the tougher things that
you may encounter in this world, and obviously Dana's book
is a great resource as well. From Burnout to Badass Hello,
but thank you all so much for spending time with
us today, and until next time, be well.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Tete Depen
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