April 13, 2025 • 39 mins
This week the conversation touches on the importance of self-leadership, managing difficult conversations with your manager, and staying fulfilled at work amidst uncertainty. Elizabeth Lotardo offers actionable advice on upskilling, finding purpose in your current role, and maintaining meaningful workplace relationships. The episode also delves into the challenges and strategies of leading without formal authority and managing career burnout. This insightful discussion is packed with practical tips for anyone navigating personal and professional transitions.
Book - https://www.elizabethlotardo.com/writing
Takeaways
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview
01:06 Inspiration Behind 'Leading Yourself'
02:37 Workforce Changes and Emotional Shifts
04:58 Navigating Career Uncertainty
08:09 Finding Purpose and Building Relationships at Work
15:20 Promoting 'Leading Yourself' and Embracing AI
19:10 LinkedIn Learning Journey
22:36 Creating Impactful Courses
23:21 Navigating LinkedIn Learning
26:43 Promoting Your Courses
27:31 Finding Fulfillment in Your Career
29:18 Leading Yourself to Success
36:22 Managing Burnout and Prioritization
39:22 Risks of Self-Leadership
40:45 Final Thoughts and Resources
42:53 Outro and Personal Reflections
Book - https://www.elizabethlotardo.com/writing
Takeaways
- Self-leadership is crucial in today's evolving work environment.
- The pandemic has shifted how we view job security and fulfillment.
- Finding purpose in your current role can enhance job satisfaction.
- Building relationships at work is essential for a positive experience.
- Upskilling is a proactive way to manage career uncertainty.
- Navigating career transitions requires careful consideration of personal motivations.
- Community support can significantly impact professional growth.
- AI is a tool that can enhance productivity, not replace jobs.
- Managing burnout involves setting clear priorities and boundaries.
- Self-leadership is an ongoing process, not a destination.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview
01:06 Inspiration Behind 'Leading Yourself'
02:37 Workforce Changes and Emotional Shifts
04:58 Navigating Career Uncertainty
08:09 Finding Purpose and Building Relationships at Work
15:20 Promoting 'Leading Yourself' and Embracing AI
19:10 LinkedIn Learning Journey
22:36 Creating Impactful Courses
23:21 Navigating LinkedIn Learning
26:43 Promoting Your Courses
27:31 Finding Fulfillment in Your Career
29:18 Leading Yourself to Success
36:22 Managing Burnout and Prioritization
39:22 Risks of Self-Leadership
40:45 Final Thoughts and Resources
42:53 Outro and Personal Reflections
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is amazing media production. Hello, good people, Welcome to
another episode of the Switch Pivot or Quick podcast. I'm
your host, Leanna Angel and you are in the place
to be if you are in the midst of transition.
That is what we talk about here. From a personal
and professional development lens, I'm gonna be talking to a
(00:24):
guest by the name of Elizabeth Lotardo. Elizabeth is a consultant.
She's an author, she's an instructor, a LinkedIn Learning instructor.
To be exact, she talks to organizations and help them
drive emotional engagement. Her book is called Leading Yourself, which
(00:45):
was named one of the Forbes Number one books for
Personal and professional Growth in twenty twenty four, and she
also writes for the Harvard Business Review. We're gonna talk
about learning how to lead yourself. We're gonna talk about
difficult conversations your manager. We're going to get into all
the things in Elizabeth is really really great at giving
(01:05):
you practical advice and tips that you can use right
now if you're in a situation. And that's one thing
I really enjoyed about this conversation. But you don't want
to hear me ramble on anymore. So let's jump to
this conversation or write about now. I'd love to hear
what inspired you to write your book Leading Yourself? Like,
what was it? Something personal? Was it something situational? Was
(01:29):
it your environment? What was the inspiration?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It's a combination of all those things. And I'll tell
you I didn't have some like cloudbarding moment that a
lot of authors talk about, were like, whoa this magical
thing that I found And it wasn't like that for me.
It was a slow build. I first started talking about
leading Yourself in twenty seventeen on LinkedIn Learning. At the
time it was Linda dot Com and I kind of
talked about it in a general way, you know, advocating
(01:54):
for yourself, owning your own career. And then when the
pandemic hit in twenty twenty, I saw the numbers on
that course really change. And what took center stage was
when your manager is not right next to you, when
your company is changing rapidly, when we don't know what
the future holds, no one's going to look out for
you like you need to look out for you. So
as I watched this concept accelerate, I dug even deeper
(02:16):
into it, and I started talking to people who were
taking the course and saying, what did you learn, what
was challenging, what should I add? What would I do differently?
And over the course of the next five years, I
updated my content on LinkedIn Learning, and I had so
much goodness I felt like, Okay, now is the time
to write a book. So it took eight years to
get to that point, and there was no tipping point moment,
(02:39):
But what I saw was as our environment changed, the
need to lead yourself really just accelerated as a core
career skill.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Talk to us a little bit about people's sort of
way that they're moving around the workforce now that you've
observed with regard to leadership and independent working, and how
have you seen that sort of like and change and
how does that feel now? Like what's the temperature that
you're feeling.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
That's a great question, and it has drastically changed in
the last four five years. To me, there are three
factors that are really influencing this emotional shift that we're
all kind of feeling. The first was the pandemic, and
a large portion of the workforce knowledge based workers went
home and realized that the work itself when there's not
(03:27):
all these fancy coffee bars and fun hallway conversations was
kind of boring and not that emotionally fulfilling. So that
was one sort of canon event, this emotional disconnect from
this thing that was originally palpable and now maybe not
so much. Secondly, we saw the way organizations were treating
their people, for better or worse during that time, and
(03:49):
that is still present as we enter into a period
of economic uncertainty. Yeah, I'm a millennial. I came of
career age during the Great Recession and saw people who
had worked for twenty thirty years for an organization get
laid off. So I think generationally there's this core belief that, hey,
you never know, right. You can like this job, but
(04:09):
it doesn't mean it's forever. So we had this emotional
shift in the pandemic, We had this financial reluctance stemming
from how organizations are treating their people. And the last
thing I think that has happened most recently is we
have the hard data from the Great Resignation that proves
job changes don't always deliver what we hope they do.
(04:31):
A lot of times they are not as fulfilling. People
regret them, and in a time of economic uncertainty, people
are less willing to make them. So all three of
those things, it's emotional change with this pandemic, this financial
dependence factor that is I think really relevant to our generation.
And then most recently, seeing that I got to look
(04:51):
out for myself here. I don't know what's going to
happen and when.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
We're thinking about our careers independently, but we also have
this sort of uncertainty around things because nothing is guaranteed.
What are you sort of suggesting that people be mindful
of when they're maybe trying to carve out that independence
and not be so reliant on their nine to five
and not in a way that they may even be
(05:15):
looking for entrepreneurship as their next goal. Maybe it's just like,
because of all of the potential uncertainty, and I don't
know if my company is going to change the rules
today or tomorrow, whether it be like return to office
or anything else. You know, how can I sort of
create some some types of lanes for myself or some
(05:38):
avenues that feel like I have some control.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So there are a couple of ways you can lead
yourself in that situation. The first is to recognize that
this emotional fuel I'm sure you've seen it on LinkedIn
as I have, like work should be this major source
of meaning and purpose and joy, and you got to
let go of some of those expectations. It can be
great in me, but it's going to be annoying sometimes.
That is just the work experience. So except that if
(06:04):
you're not totally happy at work, that is normal, and
that can feel like a real emotional release. The next
thing you can do if you're feeling that uncertainty is
you can upscale yourself. You don't need to make a
major career change, you don't need to drastically rewrite your
job description, but making learning a priority can channel that
anxiety into action. If you're worried about how AI is
(06:27):
going to disrupt your role, AI is what you need
to be learning. If you're nervous that your industry is
on shaky ground, you need to be learning about alternatives.
And the time to do it is not when you
quit your job.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
It's when you still have one m absolutely, and you've
talked before about just like not running away from a job,
not quitting a job and thinking that that's the answer
to everything. Talk to us a little bit more about that,
because I know people who are listening to the Switch
Pavot or Quit podcast are thinking the latter, sometimes.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Like yeah, emphasis on the quip, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Emphasis on the maybe it's time to go. Talk to
us about what your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Are around there, and maybe it is time to go.
I'm not going to convince someone to stay in a
job that's not right for them. That is not my
intent with this book. What I do hope to raise
is one The data from the Great Resignation showed us
that the majority of people who quit their jobs during
that peak talent turnover time regretted it. They said they
were better off at their old job and that they
(07:23):
left too quickly because what they found is the same
frustrations played out in a different place. The subtitle of
my book is leading yourself despite imperfect bosses, weird economies,
annoying systems, lethargic co workers, too many deliverables, because those
things are ever present. So if you are thinking like, oh,
should I quit? Should I not? It is on you
(07:45):
to determine the root of your angst and if that
is a truly solvable problem. Having no room for growth
in a small business and wanting to leave based on
that is solvable having a manager who's kind of annoying
and a micro manager, but otherwise it's okay, not really
a solvable problem. Every boss is going to have their
(08:05):
annoying idiosyncrasies, so differentiating between that can be really helpful
and determining is this like a baseline level of normal
annoyance or is this actually a reason to move?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So what are the three ways that you've mentioned before
to sort of like feel happier where you are doing
what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
First step is to find purpose in the role you have.
And I bet you've seen it too, that graphic iggy
guy Ikiyagi, whatever it's called, I can't even pronounce it,
where all the circles come together with what you do,
combines with what you love, combined with what the world
needs like and it all looks so perfect and aligned
and amazing, But no one is having that work experience
(08:46):
and setting your bar of purpose there is setting yourself
up for failure to find an attainable level of purpose
when that actually is palpable and moves the needle in
your work experience. It is on you to trace your effect.
Where are the emails you're sending going, who is using
the product or the content that you are creating. How
(09:07):
is it making a difference to them? How is it
making a difference to your colleagues. The more you can
trace that ripple effect and ground yourself and hey, this
might not be changing the entire world, but it actually
matters to someone, That can really fuel your spirit on
a tough day. The second way you want to feel
happier at work is to give yourself a next play Mentally,
(09:29):
we got to be working towards something it is so
important to our human spirit, whether that is a promotion,
whether that is a launching pad into a new career,
whether that is launching a really important project that you're
excited about. You got to give yourself something to look
forward to. And then, lastly, focusing on relationships. The lack
of relationship and connectedness became really obvious during the pandemic.
(09:52):
And while your coworkers may not be your best friends
or people you would want to hang out with outside
of work, making those relationships a prior does pay off
for you. Again, you're not gonna be best friends this person,
you know, they're not gonna be in your will whatever
it is. But knowing that you have these people that
care at least a little bit about you and that
(10:12):
you in return care about them. That does so much
for our work experience.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's so funny because I think I've had like different
thoughts around relationships lately, and one thing that I've been
thinking about is the more that you sort of, even
if it's by force, like push yourself into community with people,
the more that you find that you're sort of in
relationship and there can be those benefits from those relationships
(10:40):
without you having to really push, without you having to
like do this heavy lifting to you know, say hey,
how's it going, or making the connection all the time.
I don't know what are your thoughts around sort of
like community and how we're showing up in community and
maybe how we are you know, lacking community right now,
(11:01):
because I feel like that's a big thing for people too.
They're making an effort to try and be in more community.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I think people have really seen the importance of community
and the absence of it at work is partially because
they're working really which I am a fan of, but
it does make community harder, partially because we've had this
huge sweep of layoffs, so people feel like building relationships
is too vulnerable what if they have to make a
hard decision, what if they lose someone they care about.
But the benefit outweighs the risk in my opinion, and
(11:27):
that's what the research tells us. I thought about this
a lot. I had a baby a couple years ago,
and there's this whole notion of like your village and
all the people who support you. And I was lucky
to have family support, but I have a small family
as in a new city, and I didn't really feel
like I had a village. And the best advice I
got in that moment was to have a village. You
need to be a villager. You need to be showing
(11:50):
up for people in the way you want them to
show up for you. And that's not this like tit
for tat, like bait and switch weird mentality. But I
felt my heart shift in that moment. That really is
kind of the essence of leading yourself, Like, if you
want this be the change you seek, If you want
to feel better at work, make other people feel better
at work, if you want to build more connections with
(12:12):
your coworkers, you reach your hand out. It doesn't mean
you have to like divulge every info about your personal
life and go to happy hour all the time. But
a small gesture makes a big impact.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah. Actually, admittedly, so this girl talking about it on TikTok,
she was saying that her mom has this like amazing
community that always shows up for her, and people are
always asking like, how does your mom have all of
these people that just like ride for her ridiculously, like
they will go out of their way for her, And
she's like, after paying attention, my mom is that person
(12:44):
for other people. It's just plain and simple. She's the
person that will throw your daughter a baby shower. She's
the person that will go and pick your kid up
from the airport when you can't do it. She's the
person that goes out of her way for people. And
it's not that she does it all the time, and
it's not that she's doing it and looking for something
in return. It's just in her nature. And so as
(13:06):
a result, other people gravitate to her and that has
become her village. And so I think that's a practical
way to look at it right from day to day terms.
But what you're saying is the same exact thing. It's
like if it's a recommendation, if it is an introduction,
whatever it is. If you go out of your way
for someone or just maybe think of someone when it
(13:29):
feels like, oh, you didn't have to think of me,
then they probably will do the same for you, or
they at least won't forget it right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Right, And you're not going to have a one hundred
percent success right right. Their world is filled with a
small percentage of assholes, and that just is what it is.
There was some interesting research on this from Adam Grant
who wrote Give and Take, and what he studied was,
are people who are generous better off in the long run,
like people willing to make the introduction, people willing to
(13:56):
lend an ear help you on a project even though
it's out of their scope. People get further ahead than takers,
people who only ask for favors. And his hypothesis that
they do prove correct in the research. And we generally
think of it as like these big profound gestures like
throwing someone a baby shower, But the same principles apply
(14:17):
at work. If you feel undersupported, instead of being like,
oh my boss never supports me, right, how can you
demonstrate support to your boss and four of your colleagues.
It may not be instantly returned to you. But over
time it does contribute, and if it doesn't, there's your clue. Right,
emphasis on the quit, right.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I love the emphasis on the quick Oh gosh, that
could be a book in itself. Emphasis on the quitld.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Girl, never write another book.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Wait no, never, Wait, I can't say never.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I can't say.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Hold on to all that goodness you're feeling right now.
We will be right back after this quick break with
more switch pavot or quit talk like what may?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's just a lot. It's a lot, you know. I
scroll TikTok too. My attention span is really glow these days,
and so is everyone else's. And what I've seen is
that I am really proud of this book, and I
think if you really want to transform your career, it
is your playbook. That said, there is so much to
learn from podcasts, from short term video, from all of
(15:22):
these other mediums. Not everybody reads books. So if my intent,
which it is, is to truly spread the power of
self leadership as this career changing force, I got to
mix up my mediums next.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
This is so true, and I think that's a conversation
that everyone's having. Right. The visibility element of it all.
It's like, how can you be more places, share more
things and still have a great impact. So yeah, I
guess let's just go there real quick. What are you doing?
How have you worked to promote this book? What are
(15:55):
some of the tactics that you're using.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That's an interesting question and hopefully my publisher doesn't listen
to this, but I'm promoting the concept of leading yourself,
which does create a flywheel, recognizing not everybody reads books.
I obviously do. If you're watching this on YouTube or
video platform, you can see behind me like major book nerd,
but not everyone is. So I have done more content
with LinkedIn learning to hit that video element. I put
(16:19):
out content on LinkedIn that is short graphics and pographics,
things like that to hit the scrolling elements of it.
And I'm working on training programs for organizations that give
us that experiential connected feeling as it relates to learning
and championing self leadership.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
So it sounds like you are focusing your efforts in
a very specific way, specific space. Did it take you
time to decide on, like how do I want to
focus my efforts? Was there ever a time where you
felt like all over the place and like you were
throwing maybe a bunch of things at the wall, trying
to see what would stick.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
That's like a hilarious thing to hear, because I currently
feel kind of all over the place, But I was
over the place so well that I was two years ago. Yeah,
of course I fell all over the place. Like I
started my career selling Google AdWords, that is like so
far from what I'm doing now. I have made tons
of LinkedIn learning content, not on leading yourself. I was
(17:15):
a co author of a sales book, like, I tried
a zillion different things before I landed on this one.
And looking back, self leadership was the through line of
so much of my work, owning the role you're in,
seizing the power you do have, and it was also
the drum beat of my life of trying to make
something happen, even though I didn't have all the resources,
(17:36):
even though I wasn't in the right seat to make
that happen, just trying to push for it. So it
became obvious, I guess now, But even still, I mean,
the world is changing so rapidly. Who's not all over
the place?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, exactly. And then, as you mentioned earlier, AI entering
the game now it's like it changes things for people,
and it scares some people. But I am an advocate
of leaning into it and embracing it and figure bring
out how you can make it work for you. I know,
I said to some colleagues because we were doing a
lot of work with B to B type of advertising
(18:09):
for companies and they were really leaning in on the
AI elements of all of their platforms and products and
services and software. And I said to my colleague, I
was like, this is what's going to happen. People are
not going to expect you to be an AI expert,
but they are going to expect you to be able
(18:29):
to infuse AI programming tools into your workday, and they're
going to expect you to be more productive, more efficient, faster,
all of those things as a result of it. And
so if you don't adopt it and don't like figure
out how to make it work for you, that's where
you're going to get left behind. It's not that AI
is going to replace you, but you're going to get
(18:51):
left behind if you can't increase your productivity with AI.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
One hundred percent agree with that. And as scary as
it is, like you and I are both in content creation, Like,
every platform is flooded with AI content and so much
of it is bad, and it makes it harder to
stand out. It makes it harder to get traction, It
makes people want to be on those platforms generally less.
It's easy to be afraid of it on my worst days,
I really am. But I also recognize that the truth
(19:18):
that you shared is self evident. You have to adopt this.
Being afraid of it is not going to make it
go away.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Absolutely. Let's talk about your LinkedIn Learning I guess career
for a while. What has that sort of like looked like,
What did it look like at the start? What has
it it developed into now? And maybe like, where do
you see the benefits from it? So?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I first joined Linda dot com before they were acquired
by LinkedIn. I was someone who was very new in
the employee engagement space. I had written an article on
LinkedIn called why Millennials Keep Dumping You an Open Letter
to management, which was about millennial retention, very hot at
the time, completely completely irrelevant. Now at LinkedIn Learning Linda
(20:03):
dot Com, it was in the handover time was growing
so quickly they contracted me to do a course on
higher retain and growth top millennial talent A really turned
new topic at the time, and what I saw through
course creation and how much I loved it was the
power of video and the power of language and bringing
that forward with expertise when people are at work like
(20:25):
that is career altering stuff. So I was like, I'm
drinking the kool aids. Still am on LinkedIn Learning and
was so excited to build content that made people's work
experience better. And a lot of instructors have technical expertise.
A lot of instructors during the leadership space, it's one
of their biggest areas of the library. I am in
(20:46):
it for the person, the individual. So I made courses
like learning to be promotable leading without formal authority, like
when you've got to get people to do their stuff
but you're not their boss.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, someone just mentioned that to me recently, so I
want to touch on that one. But go ahead and.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Leading yourself, finding your purpose at work. Content that can
move and you know for an individual person emotionally in
opportunities in money because we know that that is correlated
to all of those things and make work better. Like
there was prior to LinkedIn Learning, so little available.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
For that yeah, yeah, And so what has the experience
been like If someone is thinking like ooh, maybe LinkedIn
learning could be an avenue for me, like what has
and not like that cookie cut or what has the
experience been like? Oh, it's been wonderful. I love working
with them. How much of your time does it take?
Is it hard? Extremely hard? How much preparation goes into
(21:45):
it for you? Do you pitch an idea and they
say yes, move forward with it? It's greenlit? Like what's
it like? From those angles?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I'm going to tackle those questions in the reverse order.
Let's start with like pitching a course, you have an idea,
anyone can apply to be a linked learning instructor. The
application is open online. You can probably find the link
to Schogle applied to be a LinkedIn Learning instructor. But
what I would say is it's tempting to pitch LinkedIn
learning or anyone. Same with pitching a book on what
(22:15):
it means for you? Right, like your idea, your expertise,
what you believe. What I've found gets accepted more easily
and is a more impactful course? Is something around from
the learner perspective? How will they be changed?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Not?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
What am I going to say, how will they be
different after this course? Because if you can't answer that question,
I believe it. And what I've seen LinkedIn practice is
the course doesn't need to exist, right. We don't make
this stuff for our own fun. We make it to
drive change inside of organizations and in people's careers. And
(22:52):
if the content can't do that, it's not You're accepted
once your course is accepted because it is life changing
for so many people. It is a heavy lift. And
compared to writing a book, it's quite similar. There's a
famous Benjamin Franklin line that is if I had more time,
I would have written you a shorter letter. In a way,
writing a book is easier because you have a lot
(23:14):
of space, and writing a LinkedIn Learning course is tough
because every word counts and being able to recognize that
and create content with that in mind is challenging. It's
a learned skill. It's easier for me now than it
was eight years ago. Though. It's a process, but it's
one that you're not alone in. LinkedIn Learning is a
great partner. And two they've really worked to identify how
(23:37):
to do this. Well. Yeah, so it's not on you all.
I mean that's a good thing is ultimately, but they
do really guide you through the process, and the expertise
that they have, the analytics that they have access to
to understand what works and what doesn't is exceptional. So
you're not flying blind when it comes to course creation.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
If someone is unfulfilled right now, what is one small
action that you would suggest that they take in terms
of like maybe trying to find that fulfillment where they
are outside of where they are.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
If you are feeling unfulfilled right now, you're not alone.
I saw this morning Glassdoor released a stat that two
in three workers feel stuck in their careers like I
can't move, I don't like this, I don't know what
to do. That is an alarming statistic. That is jarring
because we know that has a big impact on our
ability to solve problems, to think creatively, to be strategic,
(24:30):
to actually make a move to get out of that.
It is a vicious cycle. So if it's one you're in,
you're not alone, but you're also not powerless and you
can break out of this moment. What I'd encourage you
to do. This small action you can take is inside
the job you already have look for a full day
at all the good things. And I know that sounds
like so dumb and annoying, Right, you hate this job?
(24:52):
Why do you want to make a list of all
the things that aren't bad. When you do that, you
force your brain into a different feedback loop. Know that
you see what you look for. And if you are
spending your day at work sitting with all the things
you don't like, with all of the wrongs that have
been done to you, with all of the things that
should be different, you are not going to break out
(25:12):
of it. So even if it feels like cheesy and annoying,
and you do it with an iro because some girl
on some podcast told you to do it, it has a
profound impact on your level fulfillment. Even if it's like, Hey,
this coworker's not that bad. You know, they told me
a funny joke this morning. Oh you know, I got
some good feedback from a customer. These small things add up,
and the more you can point your brain there, the
more you wake up and have the mental capacity to
(25:35):
either switch piped or quid.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Hey, Elizabeth, I just gotta say you're the best. You
are the best. You know how to loop it all in,
and I love that, love that love that. So when
you're talking about high performers and sort of like that
idea of leading themselves, what are like these practices that
maybe you can share with people who are thinking, I'm
(25:59):
a high performer, not exactly loving where I am, but
I feel like maybe if I were to lean into
this idea of leading myself, I can do something that
will set me apart. Okay, hold time for me for
just one minute. Okay, maybe two, but our promise we
will be right back after we hear from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
First, find meaning where you are. You are going to
wake your brain up with how does this work make
an impact? That is going to be rocket fuel for
creative thinking, for motivation. We know it is a leading indicator. Next,
you're going to get real comfortable with change an uncertainty,
real comfortable with it. It is unavoidable, and when we
walk around with a not in our stomach, we cannot
(26:44):
solve any problems, our own, our customers, nobody's. So get
real comfortable with change uncertainty. Be able to articulate the upside.
Force your brain to see the opportunity. Zoom in on
what is controllable. Next, lead up, Yes, your boss is
technically one up from you in the ORG chart, but
you own at least half of this relationship. You can
drive your one on ones. You can push back on behavior,
(27:07):
you can set expectations. Melody Wilding has a great book
on that. I wrote a chapter in Leading Yourself. She
has like masterclass and Managing app And then lastly, you
need to set the parameters. You are in the driver's
seat of your career. The more you say yes, no problem,
I'd love to do that when you don't, the more
(27:27):
all that nonsense is going to come your way. You
are in charge of you, and it doesn't mean you
have to be a jerk to everybody and do nothing
that you don't like. Again, part of an imperfect work
experience is doing things that you prefer not to. But
you have the power to draw lines. And when you
recognize the way you are able to control the controllable
(27:48):
is predictive of the outcome you experience, everything starts to change.
And sitting in all the wrongdoings of other people and
what they should have done differently, and why everything is
so hard and annoying, there's no moment him in that.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, I want to make sure I don't forget to
go back to this that idea of leading without authority?
Can you talk to us a little bit more about
that and sort of like what does that look like
and how can you maybe best navigate that once you
recognize as the situation you're in.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
So leading without formal authority second to leading yourself is
my most popular course on LinkedIn learning because all of
us have to do it right. Your work depends on
other people unless you are literally stuffing boxes by yourself.
Even then you depend on someone to get boxes, like
we are all interconnected, yep. And when you're not in charge,
that can make the dynamics feel weird because you don't
(28:39):
want to give orders to someone because you're not their boss.
But you also recognize if they're not successful, you're not
going to be successful. And it's a really tricky dynamic
to manage. So what I dive into in the LinkedIn
learning for us, and you know, maybe I'll write another
book one day, is how to do that in a
way that isn't on one side of the spectrum to
sow as women were particularly guilty of this, like would
(29:02):
you mind could you please blah blah blah. On the
other side of the spectrum. Men are more guilty of
this one too much like a jerk, Like, hey, do
this because you're not in charge? How do you navigate
the middle? Setting clear expectations on a group level, leading
room for pushback, sending email follow ups, having that paper trail,
reiterating why the work matters, what's at stake. Those are
(29:24):
all things an individual contributor can do in leading without
a formal authority that actually drive results. You don't have
to be the boss to do them, but we often
are afraid to do them because we don't want to
be rude, or we do them too much when everyone
thinks we are super rude.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, what if you're getting that feedback that says because,
like you said, men are not afraid of being a jerk,
They're not afraid of being aggressive, they're not afraid of
being rude. Sometimes, what if you have a manager that
says to you, like, hey, I want you to be
more of that style person. You know, is this something
that you can cultivate or is this something that you
(30:02):
shouldn't try to step out of who you are to
try and create for yourself. It's like more you know,
in your face version of a leader or a person, yeah,
or a team member. There's a lot to unpack there,
and I think there's a nuance between you should act
like a man and you should be not afraid to
(30:24):
make your voice heard. Those are two really different statements. Yeah,
and so what if they're saying the latter, because maybe
that would be something that shifts your impact within the company.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
If you are getting that feedback, see the compliment beneath it,
which is you have good ideas, you can get these
things done. I believe in you. A manager never says
that to someone they think is dumb and incompetent and
not worth like coaching. So if you got that feedback,
even if it's tough to hear, that is because you
are highly competent and your organization needs what you have
to say. So even if that was not tacked on
(30:58):
to the end of you need to be more so,
that is what is fueling that compliment. I struggled with
this too, and culturally, there's so much to unpack around
how we're perceived differently, Like me saying like that's not
okay versus a man saying that's not okay is going
to read really differently, even if the intent is the same.
So pay attention to who is giving you the coaching.
(31:19):
Having said that, the ability to step in on behalf
of the work is often easier than stepping into power
on behalf of yourself, especially for women. So I'm coming
at this project, you and I are working together. I
need you to send me these reports by Friday. I
can position and as hey, I need you to send
me these reports by Friday. That feels uncomfortable, weird if
(31:41):
you're not used to like being thought straightforward and direct,
which I'm not a better way to do it that
is often more authentic, especially to him, and is, Hey,
we have this really important project that we're working on.
I'm so excited to be working with you. Our customers
are depending on us to get this deadline met. For
that's happened. I neither reports by Friday. So it is
not them serving you because you're some hyper in charge
(32:02):
ego person. It is truly them serving the work, and
that is authentic. That can be that stepping stone to
making your voice heard.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah. I love this reframing of things initially too, to
just understand that if it's your manager, if it's even
just a cross level colleague, it's that they're trying to
maybe push the mess out of you and trying to
get you to a place where they know you can
excel by using that voice. It's just you got to
do it. Talking about leadership, and we're talking about leading yourself.
(32:35):
What happens when you lead yourself into burnout?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
You're a demanding self leader.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Right like, come on, you know, come on, you can
do more. But also you know, within the dynamic of
the situation that you're in, there is no longevity in
you operating in this way. And maybe you need to
share that express it with your manager, But you might
be a little hesitant because now you've at up a
certain expectation maybe of how you operate. Do you have
(33:03):
any thoughts or any advice on how to navigate that
type of situation.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I'm gonna throw another book recommendation out there. I'm such
a nerd. Dori Clark's book The Long Game is really
good at this and sort of pacing your energy, your motivation,
your intellectual capacity. The quick tips that I would say
is you recognize we all know it. You can't pull
it from an empty cup. A more blunt way to
say it is if you do not proactively choose when
(33:29):
you're going to phone it in when it's good enough,
when it doesn't have to be perfect, it's fine over there, whatever,
not high priority for me. When you don't proactively choose,
the universe will choose for you, and it almost always
isn't the thing you would have picked if you had
to make a choice. It's something like your health, your
family relationships, some really important thing falls through the cracks
(33:53):
because you did not say no to planning the office party.
Non promotable will value work. So that is a harsh
reality we have to come to grips with, and to me,
hearing it that way feels different than puts your oxygen
mask on. You can't pour from an empty couple. You
are going to pay the price for this if you
don't get out in front of it. It is a reality.
(34:15):
The data tells us, our lived experience tells us. It's
irrefutable truth if we've seen it a billion times. But
if you've set this like she always responds that two
in the morning, expectation, always available, never a problem, always
willing to do it. You gotta do some walking back
of that, and the first step in doing that in
a way that doesn't seem like I'm tired is to
(34:38):
come at it from a strategic prioritization level. So you're
going to do some extrapolating of what is most important
on your roadmap, and then you're going to your manager,
and instead of saying, hey, I'm burned out, I'm tired,
I can't do all this, you're going to say, I
was looking at my roadmap based on my capacity, it
seems like this is the most important thing. Do I
have that right? Or based on the urgency with I'm
(35:00):
going to back burner these other three things. Showing that, hey,
I'm not just whining that I'm burned out, but I
put in some intellectual capacity to assess what's most important.
Do I have that right? Is received really differently.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Mmmm, you are cooking with grace, honey. I love it.
I love them all these answers. Thank you, has so
much good stuff to work with. One of the last
things I want to ask you about is the risks
associated with leading yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Is there a such thing as too much self leadership?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
I mean, not an entrepreneur, so I don't know. Maybe
there is, And I think so much of that is
dependent on the organizational culture. A lot of my consulting
clients bring me in because they want their people to
take charge and own their role and be more innovative.
And it comes to bear that the reason those people
are not is not because they don't know how, but
because they've been slapped on the wrist and told to
(35:58):
sit down and all of these all things that disempower
people over time, even if that was at a previous organization.
We all come with baggage. So if you are facing
resistance in self leadership, you feel like you're going a
little too hard, too fast. Some of it is assessing
is the right place for me here? Should I switch,
pivot or quit? And some of it is finesse of
(36:18):
language instead of I'm leading myself, which can be threatening
to a micromanager or to people who live and die
by that red tape Org chart and say I'm really
working on owning my role. I'm excited to have an impact.
What part of this can I manage that softer entry
point I'm leading myself. I don't need you can be
the difference.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Mm hmm. I love that. Is there anything that we
haven't talked about that is burning for you that you
would love for this audience to know something that you
feel like I didn't say this, but I really should
say this.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
No matter what HR says, no matter what your boss says,
you are in the driver's seat of this. And even
if you're not in your dream job and you're like, well,
I can't lead myself, I can't quit, I can't be
an entrepreneur. I can't, you know, push back on all
these terrible things inside my organization. You are never powerless.
When you see the power that you do have, even
if it's only an ounce, everything changes. But when you
(37:12):
throw your hands up, nothing changes. So what I hope
people have gotten out of this is whether you are
starting your journey on entrepreneurship or whether you are pushing
back in a one on one on a manager that's unreasonable.
Both of those are self leadership and it is an
ongoing process, not a destination.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Ooh, that's a great place to end and wrap us
up with a little word.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
This has been a confidence boosting experience for me. I
hope your listeners and you have gotten some out of it.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Absolutely, we've gotten more than we signed up for. I think.
Even so, this has been really, really great. I guess
finally let people know where they can experience more of you,
or interact with you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
My book is everywhere you buy books. I have LinkedIn
learning courses. You can follow me on LinkedIn. My website
is Elizabeth Litarda.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Thank you so much, Elizabeth. This has been, like I said,
a wonderful conversation that I'm going to keep raving about
and I'm sure that so many people are gonna get
great value from it. So thank you for helping us lead.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Thank you so much for spending time with me and
my guest today. I always appreciate your presence. Your presence
is a present to me, But you know what would
be a bigger present if you shared this episode with somebody.
I'd greatly appreciate it. And I guess I will catch
up with you on our next episode. Make sure that
(38:38):
you are just going out into this world and holding
your head high, being the best version of yourself, and
being confident in everything that you do, even when you
don't always feel so confident. I'm rooting for you, and
I hope you know that. So be well, be good,
and I will chat with you. This podcast is produced
(39:04):
by Mazemedia. Maze Media as a woman led podcast production
company that works with small businesses and corporations. Visit mazemedia
dot com for more details on how you and your
organization can go from ideation to podcasting
This is amazing media production. Hello, good people, Welcome to
another episode of the Switch Pivot or Quick podcast. I'm
your host, Leanna Angel and you are in the place
to be if you are in the midst of transition.
That is what we talk about here. From a personal
and professional development lens, I'm gonna be talking to a
(00:24):
guest by the name of Elizabeth Lotardo. Elizabeth is a consultant.
She's an author, she's an instructor, a LinkedIn Learning instructor.
To be exact, she talks to organizations and help them
drive emotional engagement. Her book is called Leading Yourself, which
(00:45):
was named one of the Forbes Number one books for
Personal and professional Growth in twenty twenty four, and she
also writes for the Harvard Business Review. We're gonna talk
about learning how to lead yourself. We're gonna talk about
difficult conversations your manager. We're going to get into all
the things in Elizabeth is really really great at giving
(01:05):
you practical advice and tips that you can use right
now if you're in a situation. And that's one thing
I really enjoyed about this conversation. But you don't want
to hear me ramble on anymore. So let's jump to
this conversation or write about now. I'd love to hear
what inspired you to write your book Leading Yourself? Like,
what was it? Something personal? Was it something situational? Was
(01:29):
it your environment? What was the inspiration?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It's a combination of all those things. And I'll tell
you I didn't have some like cloudbarding moment that a
lot of authors talk about, were like, whoa this magical
thing that I found And it wasn't like that for me.
It was a slow build. I first started talking about
leading Yourself in twenty seventeen on LinkedIn Learning. At the
time it was Linda dot Com and I kind of
talked about it in a general way, you know, advocating
(01:54):
for yourself, owning your own career. And then when the
pandemic hit in twenty twenty, I saw the numbers on
that course really change. And what took center stage was
when your manager is not right next to you, when
your company is changing rapidly, when we don't know what
the future holds, no one's going to look out for
you like you need to look out for you. So
as I watched this concept accelerate, I dug even deeper
(02:16):
into it, and I started talking to people who were
taking the course and saying, what did you learn, what
was challenging, what should I add? What would I do differently?
And over the course of the next five years, I
updated my content on LinkedIn Learning, and I had so
much goodness I felt like, Okay, now is the time
to write a book. So it took eight years to
get to that point, and there was no tipping point moment,
(02:39):
But what I saw was as our environment changed, the
need to lead yourself really just accelerated as a core
career skill.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Talk to us a little bit about people's sort of
way that they're moving around the workforce now that you've
observed with regard to leadership and independent working, and how
have you seen that sort of like and change and
how does that feel now? Like what's the temperature that
you're feeling.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
That's a great question, and it has drastically changed in
the last four five years. To me, there are three
factors that are really influencing this emotional shift that we're
all kind of feeling. The first was the pandemic, and
a large portion of the workforce knowledge based workers went
home and realized that the work itself when there's not
(03:27):
all these fancy coffee bars and fun hallway conversations was
kind of boring and not that emotionally fulfilling. So that
was one sort of canon event, this emotional disconnect from
this thing that was originally palpable and now maybe not
so much. Secondly, we saw the way organizations were treating
their people, for better or worse during that time, and
(03:49):
that is still present as we enter into a period
of economic uncertainty. Yeah, I'm a millennial. I came of
career age during the Great Recession and saw people who
had worked for twenty thirty years for an organization get
laid off. So I think generationally there's this core belief that, hey,
you never know, right. You can like this job, but
(04:09):
it doesn't mean it's forever. So we had this emotional
shift in the pandemic, We had this financial reluctance stemming
from how organizations are treating their people. And the last
thing I think that has happened most recently is we
have the hard data from the Great Resignation that proves
job changes don't always deliver what we hope they do.
(04:31):
A lot of times they are not as fulfilling. People
regret them, and in a time of economic uncertainty, people
are less willing to make them. So all three of
those things, it's emotional change with this pandemic, this financial
dependence factor that is I think really relevant to our generation.
And then most recently, seeing that I got to look
(04:51):
out for myself here. I don't know what's going to
happen and when.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
We're thinking about our careers independently, but we also have
this sort of uncertainty around things because nothing is guaranteed.
What are you sort of suggesting that people be mindful
of when they're maybe trying to carve out that independence
and not be so reliant on their nine to five
and not in a way that they may even be
(05:15):
looking for entrepreneurship as their next goal. Maybe it's just like,
because of all of the potential uncertainty, and I don't
know if my company is going to change the rules
today or tomorrow, whether it be like return to office
or anything else. You know, how can I sort of
create some some types of lanes for myself or some
(05:38):
avenues that feel like I have some control.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So there are a couple of ways you can lead
yourself in that situation. The first is to recognize that
this emotional fuel I'm sure you've seen it on LinkedIn
as I have, like work should be this major source
of meaning and purpose and joy, and you got to
let go of some of those expectations. It can be
great in me, but it's going to be annoying sometimes.
That is just the work experience. So except that if
(06:04):
you're not totally happy at work, that is normal, and
that can feel like a real emotional release. The next
thing you can do if you're feeling that uncertainty is
you can upscale yourself. You don't need to make a
major career change, you don't need to drastically rewrite your
job description, but making learning a priority can channel that
anxiety into action. If you're worried about how AI is
(06:27):
going to disrupt your role, AI is what you need
to be learning. If you're nervous that your industry is
on shaky ground, you need to be learning about alternatives.
And the time to do it is not when you
quit your job.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
It's when you still have one m absolutely, and you've
talked before about just like not running away from a job,
not quitting a job and thinking that that's the answer
to everything. Talk to us a little bit more about that,
because I know people who are listening to the Switch
Pavot or Quit podcast are thinking the latter, sometimes.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Like yeah, emphasis on the quip, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Emphasis on the maybe it's time to go. Talk to
us about what your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Are around there, and maybe it is time to go.
I'm not going to convince someone to stay in a
job that's not right for them. That is not my
intent with this book. What I do hope to raise
is one The data from the Great Resignation showed us
that the majority of people who quit their jobs during
that peak talent turnover time regretted it. They said they
were better off at their old job and that they
(07:23):
left too quickly because what they found is the same
frustrations played out in a different place. The subtitle of
my book is leading yourself despite imperfect bosses, weird economies,
annoying systems, lethargic co workers, too many deliverables, because those
things are ever present. So if you are thinking like, oh,
should I quit? Should I not? It is on you
(07:45):
to determine the root of your angst and if that
is a truly solvable problem. Having no room for growth
in a small business and wanting to leave based on
that is solvable having a manager who's kind of annoying
and a micro manager, but otherwise it's okay, not really
a solvable problem. Every boss is going to have their
(08:05):
annoying idiosyncrasies, so differentiating between that can be really helpful
and determining is this like a baseline level of normal
annoyance or is this actually a reason to move?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So what are the three ways that you've mentioned before
to sort of like feel happier where you are doing
what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
First step is to find purpose in the role you have.
And I bet you've seen it too, that graphic iggy
guy Ikiyagi, whatever it's called, I can't even pronounce it,
where all the circles come together with what you do,
combines with what you love, combined with what the world
needs like and it all looks so perfect and aligned
and amazing, But no one is having that work experience
(08:46):
and setting your bar of purpose there is setting yourself
up for failure to find an attainable level of purpose
when that actually is palpable and moves the needle in
your work experience. It is on you to trace your effect.
Where are the emails you're sending going, who is using
the product or the content that you are creating. How
(09:07):
is it making a difference to them? How is it
making a difference to your colleagues. The more you can
trace that ripple effect and ground yourself and hey, this
might not be changing the entire world, but it actually
matters to someone, That can really fuel your spirit on
a tough day. The second way you want to feel
happier at work is to give yourself a next play Mentally,
(09:29):
we got to be working towards something it is so
important to our human spirit, whether that is a promotion,
whether that is a launching pad into a new career,
whether that is launching a really important project that you're
excited about. You got to give yourself something to look
forward to. And then, lastly, focusing on relationships. The lack
of relationship and connectedness became really obvious during the pandemic.
(09:52):
And while your coworkers may not be your best friends
or people you would want to hang out with outside
of work, making those relationships a prior does pay off
for you. Again, you're not gonna be best friends this person,
you know, they're not gonna be in your will whatever
it is. But knowing that you have these people that
care at least a little bit about you and that
(10:12):
you in return care about them. That does so much
for our work experience.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It's so funny because I think I've had like different
thoughts around relationships lately, and one thing that I've been
thinking about is the more that you sort of, even
if it's by force, like push yourself into community with people,
the more that you find that you're sort of in
relationship and there can be those benefits from those relationships
(10:40):
without you having to really push, without you having to
like do this heavy lifting to you know, say hey,
how's it going, or making the connection all the time.
I don't know what are your thoughts around sort of
like community and how we're showing up in community and
maybe how we are you know, lacking community right now,
(11:01):
because I feel like that's a big thing for people too.
They're making an effort to try and be in more community.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I think people have really seen the importance of community
and the absence of it at work is partially because
they're working really which I am a fan of, but
it does make community harder, partially because we've had this
huge sweep of layoffs, so people feel like building relationships
is too vulnerable what if they have to make a
hard decision, what if they lose someone they care about.
But the benefit outweighs the risk in my opinion, and
(11:27):
that's what the research tells us. I thought about this
a lot. I had a baby a couple years ago,
and there's this whole notion of like your village and
all the people who support you. And I was lucky
to have family support, but I have a small family
as in a new city, and I didn't really feel
like I had a village. And the best advice I
got in that moment was to have a village. You
need to be a villager. You need to be showing
(11:50):
up for people in the way you want them to
show up for you. And that's not this like tit
for tat, like bait and switch weird mentality. But I
felt my heart shift in that moment. That really is
kind of the essence of leading yourself, Like, if you
want this be the change you seek, If you want
to feel better at work, make other people feel better
at work, if you want to build more connections with
(12:12):
your coworkers, you reach your hand out. It doesn't mean
you have to like divulge every info about your personal
life and go to happy hour all the time. But
a small gesture makes a big impact.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah. Actually, admittedly, so this girl talking about it on TikTok,
she was saying that her mom has this like amazing
community that always shows up for her, and people are
always asking like, how does your mom have all of
these people that just like ride for her ridiculously, like
they will go out of their way for her, And
she's like, after paying attention, my mom is that person
(12:44):
for other people. It's just plain and simple. She's the
person that will throw your daughter a baby shower. She's
the person that will go and pick your kid up
from the airport when you can't do it. She's the
person that goes out of her way for people. And
it's not that she does it all the time, and
it's not that she's doing it and looking for something
in return. It's just in her nature. And so as
(13:06):
a result, other people gravitate to her and that has
become her village. And so I think that's a practical
way to look at it right from day to day terms.
But what you're saying is the same exact thing. It's
like if it's a recommendation, if it is an introduction,
whatever it is. If you go out of your way
for someone or just maybe think of someone when it
(13:29):
feels like, oh, you didn't have to think of me,
then they probably will do the same for you, or
they at least won't forget it right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Right, And you're not going to have a one hundred
percent success right right. Their world is filled with a
small percentage of assholes, and that just is what it is.
There was some interesting research on this from Adam Grant
who wrote Give and Take, and what he studied was,
are people who are generous better off in the long run,
like people willing to make the introduction, people willing to
(13:56):
lend an ear help you on a project even though
it's out of their scope. People get further ahead than takers,
people who only ask for favors. And his hypothesis that
they do prove correct in the research. And we generally
think of it as like these big profound gestures like
throwing someone a baby shower, But the same principles apply
(14:17):
at work. If you feel undersupported, instead of being like,
oh my boss never supports me, right, how can you
demonstrate support to your boss and four of your colleagues.
It may not be instantly returned to you. But over
time it does contribute, and if it doesn't, there's your clue. Right,
emphasis on the quit, right.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I love the emphasis on the quick Oh gosh, that
could be a book in itself. Emphasis on the quitld.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Girl, never write another book.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Wait no, never, Wait, I can't say never.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I can't say.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Hold on to all that goodness you're feeling right now.
We will be right back after this quick break with
more switch pavot or quit talk like what may?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's just a lot. It's a lot, you know. I
scroll TikTok too. My attention span is really glow these days,
and so is everyone else's. And what I've seen is
that I am really proud of this book, and I
think if you really want to transform your career, it
is your playbook. That said, there is so much to
learn from podcasts, from short term video, from all of
(15:22):
these other mediums. Not everybody reads books. So if my intent,
which it is, is to truly spread the power of
self leadership as this career changing force, I got to
mix up my mediums next.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
This is so true, and I think that's a conversation
that everyone's having. Right. The visibility element of it all.
It's like, how can you be more places, share more
things and still have a great impact. So yeah, I
guess let's just go there real quick. What are you doing?
How have you worked to promote this book? What are
(15:55):
some of the tactics that you're using.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
That's an interesting question and hopefully my publisher doesn't listen
to this, but I'm promoting the concept of leading yourself,
which does create a flywheel, recognizing not everybody reads books.
I obviously do. If you're watching this on YouTube or
video platform, you can see behind me like major book nerd,
but not everyone is. So I have done more content
with LinkedIn learning to hit that video element. I put
(16:19):
out content on LinkedIn that is short graphics and pographics,
things like that to hit the scrolling elements of it.
And I'm working on training programs for organizations that give
us that experiential connected feeling as it relates to learning
and championing self leadership.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
So it sounds like you are focusing your efforts in
a very specific way, specific space. Did it take you
time to decide on, like how do I want to
focus my efforts? Was there ever a time where you
felt like all over the place and like you were
throwing maybe a bunch of things at the wall, trying
to see what would stick.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
That's like a hilarious thing to hear, because I currently
feel kind of all over the place, But I was
over the place so well that I was two years ago. Yeah,
of course I fell all over the place. Like I
started my career selling Google AdWords, that is like so
far from what I'm doing now. I have made tons
of LinkedIn learning content, not on leading yourself. I was
(17:15):
a co author of a sales book, like, I tried
a zillion different things before I landed on this one.
And looking back, self leadership was the through line of
so much of my work, owning the role you're in,
seizing the power you do have, and it was also
the drum beat of my life of trying to make
something happen, even though I didn't have all the resources,
(17:36):
even though I wasn't in the right seat to make
that happen, just trying to push for it. So it
became obvious, I guess now, But even still, I mean,
the world is changing so rapidly. Who's not all over
the place?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, exactly. And then, as you mentioned earlier, AI entering
the game now it's like it changes things for people,
and it scares some people. But I am an advocate
of leaning into it and embracing it and figure bring
out how you can make it work for you. I know,
I said to some colleagues because we were doing a
lot of work with B to B type of advertising
(18:09):
for companies and they were really leaning in on the
AI elements of all of their platforms and products and
services and software. And I said to my colleague, I
was like, this is what's going to happen. People are
not going to expect you to be an AI expert,
but they are going to expect you to be able
(18:29):
to infuse AI programming tools into your workday, and they're
going to expect you to be more productive, more efficient, faster,
all of those things as a result of it. And
so if you don't adopt it and don't like figure
out how to make it work for you, that's where
you're going to get left behind. It's not that AI
is going to replace you, but you're going to get
(18:51):
left behind if you can't increase your productivity with AI.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
One hundred percent agree with that. And as scary as
it is, like you and I are both in content creation, Like,
every platform is flooded with AI content and so much
of it is bad, and it makes it harder to
stand out. It makes it harder to get traction, It
makes people want to be on those platforms generally less.
It's easy to be afraid of it on my worst days,
I really am. But I also recognize that the truth
(19:18):
that you shared is self evident. You have to adopt this.
Being afraid of it is not going to make it
go away.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Absolutely. Let's talk about your LinkedIn Learning I guess career
for a while. What has that sort of like looked like,
What did it look like at the start? What has
it it developed into now? And maybe like, where do
you see the benefits from it? So?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I first joined Linda dot com before they were acquired
by LinkedIn. I was someone who was very new in
the employee engagement space. I had written an article on
LinkedIn called why Millennials Keep Dumping You an Open Letter
to management, which was about millennial retention, very hot at
the time, completely completely irrelevant. Now at LinkedIn Learning Linda
(20:03):
dot Com, it was in the handover time was growing
so quickly they contracted me to do a course on
higher retain and growth top millennial talent A really turned
new topic at the time, and what I saw through
course creation and how much I loved it was the
power of video and the power of language and bringing
that forward with expertise when people are at work like
(20:25):
that is career altering stuff. So I was like, I'm
drinking the kool aids. Still am on LinkedIn Learning and
was so excited to build content that made people's work
experience better. And a lot of instructors have technical expertise.
A lot of instructors during the leadership space, it's one
of their biggest areas of the library. I am in
(20:46):
it for the person, the individual. So I made courses
like learning to be promotable leading without formal authority, like
when you've got to get people to do their stuff
but you're not their boss.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, someone just mentioned that to me recently, so I
want to touch on that one. But go ahead and.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Leading yourself, finding your purpose at work. Content that can
move and you know for an individual person emotionally in
opportunities in money because we know that that is correlated
to all of those things and make work better. Like
there was prior to LinkedIn Learning, so little available.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
For that yeah, yeah, And so what has the experience
been like If someone is thinking like ooh, maybe LinkedIn
learning could be an avenue for me, like what has
and not like that cookie cut or what has the
experience been like? Oh, it's been wonderful. I love working
with them. How much of your time does it take?
Is it hard? Extremely hard? How much preparation goes into
(21:45):
it for you? Do you pitch an idea and they
say yes, move forward with it? It's greenlit? Like what's
it like? From those angles?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
I'm going to tackle those questions in the reverse order.
Let's start with like pitching a course, you have an idea,
anyone can apply to be a linked learning instructor. The
application is open online. You can probably find the link
to Schogle applied to be a LinkedIn Learning instructor. But
what I would say is it's tempting to pitch LinkedIn
learning or anyone. Same with pitching a book on what
(22:15):
it means for you? Right, like your idea, your expertise,
what you believe. What I've found gets accepted more easily
and is a more impactful course? Is something around from
the learner perspective? How will they be changed?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Not?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
What am I going to say, how will they be
different after this course? Because if you can't answer that question,
I believe it. And what I've seen LinkedIn practice is
the course doesn't need to exist, right. We don't make
this stuff for our own fun. We make it to
drive change inside of organizations and in people's careers. And
(22:52):
if the content can't do that, it's not You're accepted
once your course is accepted because it is life changing
for so many people. It is a heavy lift. And
compared to writing a book, it's quite similar. There's a
famous Benjamin Franklin line that is if I had more time,
I would have written you a shorter letter. In a way,
writing a book is easier because you have a lot
(23:14):
of space, and writing a LinkedIn Learning course is tough
because every word counts and being able to recognize that
and create content with that in mind is challenging. It's
a learned skill. It's easier for me now than it
was eight years ago. Though. It's a process, but it's
one that you're not alone in. LinkedIn Learning is a
great partner. And two they've really worked to identify how
(23:37):
to do this. Well. Yeah, so it's not on you all.
I mean that's a good thing is ultimately, but they
do really guide you through the process, and the expertise
that they have, the analytics that they have access to
to understand what works and what doesn't is exceptional. So
you're not flying blind when it comes to course creation.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
If someone is unfulfilled right now, what is one small
action that you would suggest that they take in terms
of like maybe trying to find that fulfillment where they
are outside of where they are.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
If you are feeling unfulfilled right now, you're not alone.
I saw this morning Glassdoor released a stat that two
in three workers feel stuck in their careers like I
can't move, I don't like this, I don't know what
to do. That is an alarming statistic. That is jarring
because we know that has a big impact on our
ability to solve problems, to think creatively, to be strategic,
(24:30):
to actually make a move to get out of that.
It is a vicious cycle. So if it's one you're in,
you're not alone, but you're also not powerless and you
can break out of this moment. What I'd encourage you
to do. This small action you can take is inside
the job you already have look for a full day
at all the good things. And I know that sounds
like so dumb and annoying, Right, you hate this job?
(24:52):
Why do you want to make a list of all
the things that aren't bad. When you do that, you
force your brain into a different feedback loop. Know that
you see what you look for. And if you are
spending your day at work sitting with all the things
you don't like, with all of the wrongs that have
been done to you, with all of the things that
should be different, you are not going to break out
(25:12):
of it. So even if it feels like cheesy and annoying,
and you do it with an iro because some girl
on some podcast told you to do it, it has a
profound impact on your level fulfillment. Even if it's like, Hey,
this coworker's not that bad. You know, they told me
a funny joke this morning. Oh you know, I got
some good feedback from a customer. These small things add up,
and the more you can point your brain there, the
more you wake up and have the mental capacity to
(25:35):
either switch piped or quid.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Hey, Elizabeth, I just gotta say you're the best. You
are the best. You know how to loop it all in,
and I love that, love that love that. So when
you're talking about high performers and sort of like that
idea of leading themselves, what are like these practices that
maybe you can share with people who are thinking, I'm
(25:59):
a high performer, not exactly loving where I am, but
I feel like maybe if I were to lean into
this idea of leading myself, I can do something that
will set me apart. Okay, hold time for me for
just one minute. Okay, maybe two, but our promise we
will be right back after we hear from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
First, find meaning where you are. You are going to
wake your brain up with how does this work make
an impact? That is going to be rocket fuel for
creative thinking, for motivation. We know it is a leading indicator. Next,
you're going to get real comfortable with change an uncertainty,
real comfortable with it. It is unavoidable, and when we
walk around with a not in our stomach, we cannot
(26:44):
solve any problems, our own, our customers, nobody's. So get
real comfortable with change uncertainty. Be able to articulate the upside.
Force your brain to see the opportunity. Zoom in on
what is controllable. Next, lead up, Yes, your boss is
technically one up from you in the ORG chart, but
you own at least half of this relationship. You can
drive your one on ones. You can push back on behavior,
(27:07):
you can set expectations. Melody Wilding has a great book
on that. I wrote a chapter in Leading Yourself. She
has like masterclass and Managing app And then lastly, you
need to set the parameters. You are in the driver's
seat of your career. The more you say yes, no problem,
I'd love to do that when you don't, the more
(27:27):
all that nonsense is going to come your way. You
are in charge of you, and it doesn't mean you
have to be a jerk to everybody and do nothing
that you don't like. Again, part of an imperfect work
experience is doing things that you prefer not to. But
you have the power to draw lines. And when you
recognize the way you are able to control the controllable
(27:48):
is predictive of the outcome you experience, everything starts to change.
And sitting in all the wrongdoings of other people and
what they should have done differently, and why everything is
so hard and annoying, there's no moment him in that.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, I want to make sure I don't forget to
go back to this that idea of leading without authority?
Can you talk to us a little bit more about
that and sort of like what does that look like
and how can you maybe best navigate that once you
recognize as the situation you're in.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
So leading without formal authority second to leading yourself is
my most popular course on LinkedIn learning because all of
us have to do it right. Your work depends on
other people unless you are literally stuffing boxes by yourself.
Even then you depend on someone to get boxes, like
we are all interconnected, yep. And when you're not in charge,
that can make the dynamics feel weird because you don't
(28:39):
want to give orders to someone because you're not their boss.
But you also recognize if they're not successful, you're not
going to be successful. And it's a really tricky dynamic
to manage. So what I dive into in the LinkedIn
learning for us, and you know, maybe I'll write another
book one day, is how to do that in a
way that isn't on one side of the spectrum to
sow as women were particularly guilty of this, like would
(29:02):
you mind could you please blah blah blah. On the
other side of the spectrum. Men are more guilty of
this one too much like a jerk, Like, hey, do
this because you're not in charge? How do you navigate
the middle? Setting clear expectations on a group level, leading
room for pushback, sending email follow ups, having that paper trail,
reiterating why the work matters, what's at stake. Those are
(29:24):
all things an individual contributor can do in leading without
a formal authority that actually drive results. You don't have
to be the boss to do them, but we often
are afraid to do them because we don't want to
be rude, or we do them too much when everyone
thinks we are super rude.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, what if you're getting that feedback that says because,
like you said, men are not afraid of being a jerk,
They're not afraid of being aggressive, they're not afraid of
being rude. Sometimes, what if you have a manager that
says to you, like, hey, I want you to be
more of that style person. You know, is this something
that you can cultivate or is this something that you
(30:02):
shouldn't try to step out of who you are to
try and create for yourself. It's like more you know,
in your face version of a leader or a person, yeah,
or a team member. There's a lot to unpack there,
and I think there's a nuance between you should act
like a man and you should be not afraid to
(30:24):
make your voice heard. Those are two really different statements. Yeah,
and so what if they're saying the latter, because maybe
that would be something that shifts your impact within the company.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
If you are getting that feedback, see the compliment beneath it,
which is you have good ideas, you can get these
things done. I believe in you. A manager never says
that to someone they think is dumb and incompetent and
not worth like coaching. So if you got that feedback,
even if it's tough to hear, that is because you
are highly competent and your organization needs what you have
to say. So even if that was not tacked on
(30:58):
to the end of you need to be more so,
that is what is fueling that compliment. I struggled with
this too, and culturally, there's so much to unpack around
how we're perceived differently, Like me saying like that's not
okay versus a man saying that's not okay is going
to read really differently, even if the intent is the same.
So pay attention to who is giving you the coaching.
(31:19):
Having said that, the ability to step in on behalf
of the work is often easier than stepping into power
on behalf of yourself, especially for women. So I'm coming
at this project, you and I are working together. I
need you to send me these reports by Friday. I
can position and as hey, I need you to send
me these reports by Friday. That feels uncomfortable, weird if
(31:41):
you're not used to like being thought straightforward and direct,
which I'm not a better way to do it that
is often more authentic, especially to him, and is, Hey,
we have this really important project that we're working on.
I'm so excited to be working with you. Our customers
are depending on us to get this deadline met. For
that's happened. I neither reports by Friday. So it is
not them serving you because you're some hyper in charge
(32:02):
ego person. It is truly them serving the work, and
that is authentic. That can be that stepping stone to
making your voice heard.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah. I love this reframing of things initially too, to
just understand that if it's your manager, if it's even
just a cross level colleague, it's that they're trying to
maybe push the mess out of you and trying to
get you to a place where they know you can
excel by using that voice. It's just you got to
do it. Talking about leadership, and we're talking about leading yourself.
(32:35):
What happens when you lead yourself into burnout?
Speaker 2 (32:39):
You're a demanding self leader.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Right like, come on, you know, come on, you can
do more. But also you know, within the dynamic of
the situation that you're in, there is no longevity in
you operating in this way. And maybe you need to
share that express it with your manager, But you might
be a little hesitant because now you've at up a
certain expectation maybe of how you operate. Do you have
(33:03):
any thoughts or any advice on how to navigate that
type of situation.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I'm gonna throw another book recommendation out there. I'm such
a nerd. Dori Clark's book The Long Game is really
good at this and sort of pacing your energy, your motivation,
your intellectual capacity. The quick tips that I would say
is you recognize we all know it. You can't pull
it from an empty cup. A more blunt way to
say it is if you do not proactively choose when
(33:29):
you're going to phone it in when it's good enough,
when it doesn't have to be perfect, it's fine over there, whatever,
not high priority for me. When you don't proactively choose,
the universe will choose for you, and it almost always
isn't the thing you would have picked if you had
to make a choice. It's something like your health, your
family relationships, some really important thing falls through the cracks
(33:53):
because you did not say no to planning the office party.
Non promotable will value work. So that is a harsh
reality we have to come to grips with, and to me,
hearing it that way feels different than puts your oxygen
mask on. You can't pour from an empty couple. You
are going to pay the price for this if you
don't get out in front of it. It is a reality.
(34:15):
The data tells us, our lived experience tells us. It's
irrefutable truth if we've seen it a billion times. But
if you've set this like she always responds that two
in the morning, expectation, always available, never a problem, always
willing to do it. You gotta do some walking back
of that, and the first step in doing that in
a way that doesn't seem like I'm tired is to
(34:38):
come at it from a strategic prioritization level. So you're
going to do some extrapolating of what is most important
on your roadmap, and then you're going to your manager,
and instead of saying, hey, I'm burned out, I'm tired,
I can't do all this, you're going to say, I
was looking at my roadmap based on my capacity, it
seems like this is the most important thing. Do I
have that right? Or based on the urgency with I'm
(35:00):
going to back burner these other three things. Showing that, hey,
I'm not just whining that I'm burned out, but I
put in some intellectual capacity to assess what's most important.
Do I have that right? Is received really differently.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Mmmm, you are cooking with grace, honey. I love it.
I love them all these answers. Thank you, has so
much good stuff to work with. One of the last
things I want to ask you about is the risks
associated with leading yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Is there a such thing as too much self leadership?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
I mean, not an entrepreneur, so I don't know. Maybe
there is, And I think so much of that is
dependent on the organizational culture. A lot of my consulting
clients bring me in because they want their people to
take charge and own their role and be more innovative.
And it comes to bear that the reason those people
are not is not because they don't know how, but
because they've been slapped on the wrist and told to
(35:58):
sit down and all of these all things that disempower
people over time, even if that was at a previous organization.
We all come with baggage. So if you are facing
resistance in self leadership, you feel like you're going a
little too hard, too fast. Some of it is assessing
is the right place for me here? Should I switch,
pivot or quit? And some of it is finesse of
(36:18):
language instead of I'm leading myself, which can be threatening
to a micromanager or to people who live and die
by that red tape Org chart and say I'm really
working on owning my role. I'm excited to have an impact.
What part of this can I manage that softer entry
point I'm leading myself. I don't need you can be
the difference.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Mm hmm. I love that. Is there anything that we
haven't talked about that is burning for you that you
would love for this audience to know something that you
feel like I didn't say this, but I really should
say this.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
No matter what HR says, no matter what your boss says,
you are in the driver's seat of this. And even
if you're not in your dream job and you're like, well,
I can't lead myself, I can't quit, I can't be
an entrepreneur. I can't, you know, push back on all
these terrible things inside my organization. You are never powerless.
When you see the power that you do have, even
if it's only an ounce, everything changes. But when you
(37:12):
throw your hands up, nothing changes. So what I hope
people have gotten out of this is whether you are
starting your journey on entrepreneurship or whether you are pushing
back in a one on one on a manager that's unreasonable.
Both of those are self leadership and it is an
ongoing process, not a destination.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Ooh, that's a great place to end and wrap us
up with a little word.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
This has been a confidence boosting experience for me. I
hope your listeners and you have gotten some out of it.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Absolutely, we've gotten more than we signed up for. I think.
Even so, this has been really, really great. I guess
finally let people know where they can experience more of you,
or interact with you.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
My book is everywhere you buy books. I have LinkedIn
learning courses. You can follow me on LinkedIn. My website
is Elizabeth Litarda.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Thank you so much, Elizabeth. This has been, like I said,
a wonderful conversation that I'm going to keep raving about
and I'm sure that so many people are gonna get
great value from it. So thank you for helping us lead.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Thank you so much for spending time with me and
my guest today. I always appreciate your presence. Your presence
is a present to me, But you know what would
be a bigger present if you shared this episode with somebody.
I'd greatly appreciate it. And I guess I will catch
up with you on our next episode. Make sure that
(38:38):
you are just going out into this world and holding
your head high, being the best version of yourself, and
being confident in everything that you do, even when you
don't always feel so confident. I'm rooting for you, and
I hope you know that. So be well, be good,
and I will chat with you. This podcast is produced
(39:04):
by Mazemedia. Maze Media as a woman led podcast production
company that works with small businesses and corporations. Visit mazemedia
dot com for more details on how you and your
organization can go from ideation to podcasting
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a thought-provoking, opinionated, and topic-driven journey through the top sports stories of the day.