March 2, 2025 • 29 mins
I'm looking back at a convo I think will spark ideas for you as you navigate looking for a new job or building your network. My guest is Melanie Feldman and she shares her unique journey from facing multiple job rejections to landing roles at top companies without applying. We discuss the importance of human connection, overcoming the fear of rejection, and crafting a standout presence to get hired. You'll gain valuable insights into navigating the job market, negotiating salaries, and finding fulfillment in your career. Practical advice and inspiring stories to help you make your next career move confidently.
Melanie's Website - https://www.youaregoingplaces.com/
00:00 Introduction to Switch Pivot or Quit
01:00 Throwback Episode Introduction
01:58 Meet Melanie Feldman
03:25 Melanie's Career Journey
05:51 Strategies for Job Hunting
12:10 Overcoming Rejection
14:51 Career Decisions and Growth
23:15 Negotiating Salary and Success
27:25 Conclusion and Farewell
Melanie's Website - https://www.youaregoingplaces.com/
00:00 Introduction to Switch Pivot or Quit
01:00 Throwback Episode Introduction
01:58 Meet Melanie Feldman
03:25 Melanie's Career Journey
05:51 Strategies for Job Hunting
12:10 Overcoming Rejection
14:51 Career Decisions and Growth
23:15 Negotiating Salary and Success
27:25 Conclusion and Farewell
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is amazing media production. Welcome to the Switch Pavoit
Quid podcast, where we get real and dig deep into
the stories of our peers to find out their strategies,
their solutions, and insights you need to help inform your
career transition decisions. I'm your host, Ayanna Angel, and I
(00:23):
started this podcast just after quitting a career in sports
entertainment PR to become an author. I've had multiple career lives,
from designing jewelry worn by Beyonce to show running and
producing award winning podcasts. But my hope is for this
podcast to help you ask yourself the hard questions, for
(00:48):
you to become more self aware, and for you to
ultimately break through whatever is holding you back from taking
a chance on you and the life you truly desire.
This week, we're gonna do a little bit of a throwback.
For those who have been rocking with us for a while,
you may remember this conversation and hopefully it'll serve as
(01:11):
a good reminder for you and for those who are new.
Because we have quite a few new listeners, I want
to introduce you to a conversation that we had back
in twenty twenty one and given the current climate that
we're in with so much uncertainty with people's employment, and
I've seen I can't even tell you how many LinkedIn
posts with people saying keep me in mind for open positions.
(01:34):
I am open to work. I have been laid off
and I'm looking for my next opportunity. I hope that
this conversation comes at a perfect time to be a
resource to people who are really in need of this resource.
We're gonna be talking all about getting a job without applying,
So without further ado, let's get into this conversation. On
(01:57):
today's show, We're chatting with Melanie. Melanie is a career
coach and co founder of Going Places. She's built a
successful career by landing roles at her top choice companies
without ever applying for a single job. After her first role,
she authored Bold, Get Noticed, Get Hired, a book that
provides both inspirational stories and the techniques of people who
(02:21):
set themselves apart to land their dream jobs. It is
now used in college curriculum courses at Lehigh University and
Carnegie Mellon University. In addition to her work as a
career coach, Melanie is also still climbing the corporate letter
at one of Silicon Valley's top tech companies. You all
(02:41):
know how I typically feel about the career coach conversation.
I feel like I'm always talking about this, and that's
partially because I'm inundated with coaches. And this conversation was
different and unique for me, and I loved it because
Melanie is coming from a completely different perspective. She has
(03:04):
a skill set that she's learned along the way of
actually thriving in her career and being able to go
from top company to top company and learning some really
key takeaways as to how you can make these strategic
moves and not actually apply for our job. So I
think you're going to enjoy this chat.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Let's get started, kind of waking that I wanted to
chat with you. I think you have an interesting story
in journey because you are also a nine to five
employee right now as well, and so share with us
a little bit more about how you got into this
career coaching space and how you're navigating your career right now.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
You know what's funny is I never woke up one
day or you know, through college, was like I'm going
to be a career coach it's actually yeah, it's actually
kind of funny how that started. And I'll take it back.
I graduated from college and I flew back to Hawaii,
where I'm from, and I was like, Okay, I'm going
to work in New York City. I'm going to crush it.
(04:07):
You know. I just felt like on top of the world.
I was a finance and marketing major. I played the
division on sport. I had three internships, and I thought, Okay,
I have this in the bag. And I applied to
one hundred jobs a day only to get automated responses
saying no thank you. And I just remember these like
pain points, probably around three months in, and I remember
(04:29):
my mom just being like, how can I help you?
Like do you want to go to Barnes and Noble
and find a book or something?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
It was like I realized, like, did I ever learn
how to apply for a job in college? Like I
don't think so, and so I'm completely struggling. And four
months in, at this point, I catch a webinar on
LinkedIn by Lewis Howes. He said, I challenge you to
reach out to someone you never think you can get
in touch with. And I was like Okay, you know,
(04:59):
I never really this. I've just been applying for a
million jobs and I ended up cold reaching out to
a sportscaster at ESPN because I was like, Okay, I
want to work at ESPN. I played a sport and
I was a business major, so that's the only company
I want to work at, which who knows why I
was thinking that now, but it's that mentality when you
get out of college, you know, clue what you want
(05:20):
to do. And I sent that email off put twenty
five different emails attached to it because I had no
idea what his email was, and I was like, okay,
Meil Dot Everett and Everett like. I just threw it
out there and nothing happened, and I was like, okay,
I'll pause on that. I didn't expect anything. But at
the same time, I started just thinking, wow, maybe I should.
I mean, I have to change something up. At this point,
(05:40):
applying online isn't doing anything, and so I started just
messaging so many people on LinkedIn and through email and
trying to leverage any part of my network I possibly could.
And the funny part I on it is I got
every interview I ever wanted from every single job that
I had on my list. I was like, oh my god,
she was the same person. No one ever responded to
(06:02):
any of the resumes I had sent out, and all
of a sudden, I'm getting responses, which was crazy. Meanwhile,
one month later, Neil Everrett calls my phone and he's like,
how did you get my email address? I was like, Neil,
don't worry about it. But so the funny part was
he got on a call with me and the next
day I had an interview at ESPN.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Was that interview or result of that phone call?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, so I said, Neil, we just we hit it
off on the phone. I was telling him, you know,
I'm from Hawaii. You worked in Hawaii, And he was like,
all right, what do you want from me? And I
was like, all right, well, can I get an interview?
And he called the HR department and he got me
an interview the next day, and everything after that changed
for me, because, you know, I just realized it's all
(06:46):
about human connection, and no one teaches you that in college.
Long story short, I ended up getting a job in
New York City. So I ended up cold emailing the
CEO's assistant. She got me an interview one week later,
I'm flying from Huai to New York City starting and advertising.
Knew nothing about the space or anything, and what really
(07:07):
interested me was did everyone else land their jobs like this?
And I was so curious, and so I ended up
writing a book called Bolds, Get Noticed, to Get Hired,
which was a complete interview series of like thirty people
around the world who I thought did really cool things.
And I was interested how you landed your first job.
So that was a really interesting start to just being
(07:27):
in the space. And you know, naturally, I was speaking
a lot of colleges after I had launched my book,
and I would just get message after message from college
shudn't saying can you help me with my job? Can
you help me launch a job? And I realized that
gave me a ton of energy to help people navigate
their careers. And so, long story short, somehow I fell
into the space and it's something I just absolutely enjoy.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
It seems like you were crafty with trying to figure
out what Neil's email address was, and you were also
crafty with probably seeing that there was a job hosting
available at advertising agency and then going after the assistant
because they're usually the gatekeepers is there something that typically
comes up for you when you're recommending for people to
(08:11):
take certain actions or certain steps when they're trying to
get their foot in the door without a resume.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Absolutely so. I think there's a few things. One in
particular is this mentality of asking people for things. I
don't know about you, but for me, it's like I
get a lot of LinkedIn messages where people are just
asking me to do things and I've never even met
them before.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And it's one of those things where like, yes, you're
going to carve out time to help people, of course,
but it's this weird, off putting thing when someone's asking
for something and you've never met them. I think the
first thing that I try to train people on in
terms of a mentality, especially from a young age, like
even in high school, is don't ask people for things
when you're creating a network, and you're building a network
(08:53):
from scratch, which you know is the core to getting
referred into a company and getting your foot in the door.
It's about how can you do research on that person
and add value? And the only real ask is can
I have twenty minutes to talk about you and ask
you some specific questions that I have because I find
your background so interesting and so inspirational, and so I
(09:16):
try to get people out of this mentality of Hi,
can you refer.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Me to this company?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You know, it's like it just feels a little off
putting and I don't think they get the results that
you want. And so yeah, that's the first thing I
usually talk to people about, is like, we're going to
build this from the ground up, and you never are
going to ask people for things. Even if you want
to get introduced to someone, You're going to write that
introduction so all they have to do is press one
button to send it off.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So tell us, how do you get your current position?
We know that you are doing other work and you're
employed outside of the career coaching work that you do.
How did you land this position?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
So, for one, all of the jobs that I've ever
had in the advertising space, I've never actually applied online.
I really believe like landing your first job is the
toughest because it's so competitive, and so for me, it's
really been about doing the best work I possibly can
and creating a network around me and always having conversations
with people and always asking about them and learning about them,
(10:17):
because ultimately that's how I've gotten every job. It's we
started at one company, people left to other companies and
there's an open role at their company and they're like, oh, wow,
Melanie would be a really good fit for that. Because I,
you know, I try to put my head down and
show that I do quality work because right the end
of the day, your network is what you have, and
so you want people to see you in the best light.
(10:37):
So yeah, it was it was through my network. It
was someone that I had worked with previously who reached
out to me and said, hey, Melanie, are you interested
in this role? I think it'd be a perfect fit.
And I was like, all right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So in the book bull Get Noticed, Get Hired, what
did you figure out? Was there a common thing that
you were able to come up with or was anything
surprising that you figured out from speaking to the people
that you spoke do for the book.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
It was really interesting because I chose people with all
different backgrounds. It was people who were engineers and in advertising,
and you know, I tried to really pick different industries
and what I realized were two things. So one, not
everyone is extroverted. A lot of people aren't extroverted and
don't feel comfortable like reaching out and having tons of conversations.
(11:27):
One thing was everyone kind of figured out what their
passion was and what gives them energy, and they honed
in on that to then focus on that as they
were getting creative with how they got discovered, and like
what I mean by that is like some people coded
websites and so that was like, you know, they made
these cool websites to put their resume on and like
showcase it. One girl loved legos and so she created
(11:49):
this amazing lego of the logo of the company and
shipped it over to them and was like can I
have a call? Like will I get an interview? It
was just interesting. It was like you don't have to
be good at one specific thing, but everyone's generally interested
in something and it's like, m hm, how can you
turn that something into something that helps you stand out?
And the other piece was, and this is something I
(12:11):
speak about a lot, and it's the elimination of fear
of rejection. All of these people, when I talked to
them and I heard their story, you could easily have said,
are you embarrassed to do what you did? Like there
were guys standing with a desk on Wall Street and
was handing out his resumes like a lemonade stand, and
everyone could have easily said are you embarrassed to do
(12:33):
these things? And no one would ever say that because
they're all really successful now. And so I realized they
removed that fear of rejection and they just went with
it and they didn't care what anyone else thought. And
every single person I interviewed had that commonality, and so
it made me really think a lot about that, and
I was like, I want to be successful. If anyone
wants to be successful, you really have to come straight
(12:56):
up with rejection and say I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Rejection is deaf definitely a big thing, and I think
it holds so many people that is there anything that
you can think of that maybe somebody can do to
get themselves more comfortable with rejection.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
One of my favorite quotes is you can ask a
hundred people out on a date. If you get ninety
nine o's, that means you have a date. It's like, okay,
you've got nine nine no's, but you have a date,
and you're excited because you have a date. And so
I always say, like, it's so easy to look back
and say, oh, I'm so glad that didn't work out
because I wouldn't be here, or you know, really think
(13:35):
of rejection as redirection later on. But if you can
like in the moment, which is so hard to do.
It's like I have to remind myself of this all
the time, because life is just a series of rejections.
It starts really young, right, and it's like everything it's
like asking someone to prom getting into college, getting into
friend group, like you're just being rejected one thing after another,
(13:58):
and soon you can come to realize that if the
worst thing that's gonna happen is a no, and you're like,
all right, well, I guess I'm okay with that. All
of a sudden it's like this weird lift off your
test and you're like, all right, what's stopping me? And
I feel like so many people fall short of what
they can do because they're so scared to fail. And
(14:21):
you know, I talk with a lot of parents of
students in high school, and I say, be that support
system for your kid while they're going through that push
them to fail so they get used to it, you know,
And I think the earlier we can start failing the
better we're going to be as we get older and
grow into our careers.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Ooh, this is the stuff I like to hear on
the Switch Pavot or quick podcast. But we will be
right back after this quick break.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Can you think back to a time where you had
to make a difficult decision in your career and what
was that.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
I were at Twitter three companies ago now, yeah, and
I was, you know, on the sales team, and I
had this just amazing job and I loved who I
worked with. And one of my clients actually, which was
a small startup of probably around twenty people. I was
working with them for over two years and they had
finally come to me and said, do you want to
come over here and kind of lead our brand sales?
(15:21):
And I thought, I have the most stable job. I
absolutely loved my company. I feel so secure. I have
the best friend group here. Why would I ever leave that.
I usually rely on my gut to make most decisions,
in the sense of I get that feeling, and if
I doubt myself, I usually just overthink it. And so
(15:43):
this one took a really long time because I had
to think through it, and I ended up making the
jump and I went to a startup, which is funny.
They actually this year got acquired by Twitter, so it
was also a Los circle situation. But you know, I
was completely out of my comfort zone. I remember I
just showed up the first day and there was just
a box on my desk and it was the computer.
(16:03):
And they were like, okay, go.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Like no big hr orientation, no passionate.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
You know what, if I never made that move, I
don't think I would be where I'm at today in
my career. Or I think it's important to get outside
your comfort zone and do things that might not always
feel safe, because that's how you grow and get better
in the exposure I had at that startup, which grew
so quickly transform my career, and I'm so thankful that
I went with that and felt so uncomfortable in that
(16:32):
situation to make that move.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Had there ever been a time where you got to yourself,
I need to step it up, and it's so what
did you then do?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Someone would see Twitter on a resume, see these different
companies and say, wow, that's my dream job, and I
think for me, like, when I think about stepping it up,
like ten years into my career, it becomes more about
how can I do more things that give me energy
and make me feel good in my day to day,
then less. You know, so if I can feel fifty
(17:01):
percent of that more than fifty percent of my day
doing things that I enjoy and just and usually those
are the things that I check off my list first, right,
because it's easy, I get it done. And then you know,
they have those items on the list that I never
get done because I don't love them, And for me,
like stepping it up really is in that sense, because
it's how can I grow my career? How can I
keep moving forward? So my life eventually is just made
(17:25):
up of more and more of those things. And I
think it's so easy for people to think like, oh,
this name company, I need to do this, it's going
to be my dream job, and then you get there
and you're like, wait, why did I think that? Again?
It's just like what about this with my dream job?
(17:46):
And so, you know, I think for me, it's like
I enjoy helping people grow their careers. That's something that
like I wake up out of bed and I'm like,
oh my gosh, I can't wait to do that. And
you know, I incorporate that in my nine to five
I incorporate in Going Places, and it's like, you know,
I know, I love working with clients and doing those
types of things. So I usually challenge myself and like
(18:09):
I every so often, probably every six months, I put
a list together of what's giving me energy now and
what stream, and then I try to focus on how
do I do more of the energy piece? And it's
I think it's important for people to identify that every
six months because your life changes so quickly, and you know,
(18:30):
what would be on my list ten years ago is
very different now.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
How does the work that you do in your nine
to five impact or maybe how has it aligned with
the work that you're doing with Going Places. It sounds
like you work with clients on both sides, So is
there any crossover. Is there anything maybe in your nine
to five that helps set you up for the work
(18:54):
that you do with Going Places?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah? So, and I might take this in a slightly
different direction because I have this this thought around it
and it's I actually realized how companies actually hire and
what the process looks like. And it was something that
I don't ever remember learning. I didn't know, and you know,
I've hired people at companies that I've worked at I've
been on that side of the of the curtain, and
(19:19):
I think, what's so interesting to me? And I don't
know if you feel this way too. I onim you're
led to believe get your four year degree and you
send your resume through online, you have this fighting chance
and that someone's going to see you. Yeah. And I
only learned that it wasn't the case when I got
jobs and when I was in the workforce and I
(19:40):
was hiring people. And what I realized, and this is
something I try to educate people on. This is why
I feel like I really connect with people as I'm
helping them navigate and inspiring them to, you know, land
the job that they want is actually it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Work like that.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And the way it works is there is an open
wor that manager sends an email out to everyone and says, hey,
do you have a great candidate for this role? Send
me referral, Send me referrals, and everyone sends them through
because one, you know, you want to send good people through.
But too, there's an incentive bonus. Every company has it, right,
(20:17):
you know, you make what you can make, like twenty
thousand dollars at some companies I'm sure it's not like
that everywhere, but you can make a lot of money
if you get a candidate hired and then the manager
gets this massive stack of resumes on their desk, and
then all of a sudden they're doing interviews and then
you know, maybe a week later the jobs posted online.
And so what I realized is just this issue. Right,
(20:38):
So one, if you apply online, you're competing against thousands
of people, and if you happen to be seen, if
your resume lands in front of someone, you're behind the
ball because you're competing against people who have had multiple
interviews and they've been referred. And so I think, for me,
what excites me outside of just like what I do
(21:00):
in my you know, in advertising and all that, is
I want to teach people that you're not just worthless
because you're not hearing back, you're actually never seen. And
I think, you know, part of building a more diverse
and inclusive workforce amongst all companies, it starts by creating
that that pool of candidates through referrals. And so I
(21:23):
try to teach people, you know, if you want to
get your resume in front of someone, you need to
build that network from scratch. Develop rapport with people to
the point where they're incentivizing they're going to want to
refer you in. I want people to learn how to
navigate this and know that this is how it works,
so then that way they can start this early.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Has there been any advice or helpful business tips that
you've received throughout your career that maybe stuck with you.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, my old manager, I just always remember this advice
and she said, if you ever want, you know, a
promotion or a raise, package it up like a birthday
gift and send it to your manager with a bow
on it, you know, wrapped up. This advice kind of
clicked for me because I realized when you're looking to
do something like grow your career within your company and
(22:13):
get a promotion or grow you know, your manager is
working with so many different people and it's actually a
lot of work to help them get a promotion and
to get a raise, and there's probably a lot of
paperwork involved with that, and so one, you know, it
made it clicks for me when I was like, oh, okay,
like if I want this, I need to find out
how they are submitting this and I need to basically
(22:34):
submit it for them. And so it was interesting because
I was like, oh, I've never asked the manager what
the process was like to get a raise, like what
do you have to do? What's the heavy lifting? And
then the second piece to that advice was have your
manager work with you on the process six months before.
So most people go into a review and they're like, hey, like,
(22:55):
you know, I want to raise, and it's probably already
been decided at that point, and I I think it's
important to have your manager be on your team and say, listen,
this is what I'm trying to achieve. How can I
get there? And then asking questions like what is this
submission process on your end? Like how can I do
that heavy lifting? So it's good to ask those questions
early on to figure out what your manager has to do.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Let's talk a little bit about negotiating a salary increase
now you have the job.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I never felt like I could negotiate and this was
so much my career and I realized this talking to
my coworkers that you know, one day, I you know,
you develop a port with your coworkers, and I had
one of the guys was the same exact position, with
the same exact years of experience as me, and I
asked him, you know, I was like, okay, let's just
tell each other what we make. And he made ten
(23:43):
thousand dollars more than me, and I was yeah, and
I was like, how did you get that? And He's like,
I asked, I asked, I asked, and I thought back
and I go, I never even asked. So my thoughts
on negotiating, first of all, is you have to take
the emotion out of it. And if you can remove emotion,
(24:03):
and it's all driven by research and almost like presenting
a case, you're going to be so much more successful.
And this could be negotiating your salary, you know, to
start a job, or negotiating a raise. It has nothing
to do with what you want. It has nothing to
do with what you think, you know, this is what
my coworkers are making or whatever. It's about presenting your
(24:25):
case in a very quantitative form to show here's the
value that I'm bringing, here's the research that I've done
in the market. So I think it's important. There's a
lot of resources out there, you know, you can look
on glassdoor and different places to figure out what are
people making. With my years of experience in my location
in this industry, and so I say, you know, do
(24:46):
your research, ask your peers who are similar years of experience,
and ask them to give you a range, you know
of like if they have a similar job or what
they're doing. And so have one piece of that is
this is my value, and here's the research to back
it up. Here are the numbers, and then I think
there's this other piece. So when you're working at a company,
(25:09):
you know, it's so easy to lose track of the
work that you're doing over a certain period of time.
You might have a review session every year, and so
I always tell people, you know, keep a notepad on
your computer that it's keeping track of your wins, but
all in the form of what your manager cares about
in terms of like if you're on the sales side,
(25:29):
how are you adding revenue to the company? Like what
do you bring in? And really capturing that to show.
So when you're building your case out, it's about here's
the value that I should be making based on my research,
and here's everything I've brought to the table, and hear
all the numbers behind it. Here you go hand delivered
with a bone on it. And you know, I think
(25:51):
part of that too, So when you're working at a company,
not only having that piece, but like starting the conversation
early is really important because there's a lot that goes
into getting a raise outside of just having a conversation,
and you know, sometimes your manager has to find the
funds and that takes months. But the one piece for
me is always taking the emotion out because I would
(26:12):
go to the table and I would be so nervous
and I would almost tear up when I was trying
to ask for what I wanted. And then when I
started just using numbers and almost making it like a
case study, it was like, oh, that was easy because
it's not emotional.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So speaking of getting what you deserve and what you want,
what does success.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Mean or look like for you?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Success is me getting to have conversations, get people aware
of how companies hire, and help them figure out a
pathway to landing their job. Every time I have a
conversation with someone who's in college or trying to find
their first job or navigating, I always just get off
the call and I feel like I just feel like
(26:55):
my tank is full and I just feel amazing. And
what I've learned over the years is it's less about
money for me. It's more about how can I do
more of that? Because you know, at a certain point
it's like if I'm creating my day around things that
give me energy and fill my tank, and I'm so
(27:15):
much happier and it has nothing to do with money.
And so the more I can do of that into
my life, the more successful I would deem myself. And yeah,
that's what.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I would do that. Thank you so much, Melanie for
sharing some of your insights with us. You definitely gave
me some light bulb moments. If everybody wants to look
more into potentially working with you, or follow your career,
or connect with you maybe on LinkedIn, but not ask
you for something, how can they find you and keep
up with you?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
So our website is you are Going Places dot Com
and our handle on social as you go Places.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Thank you so much for spending time with me and
my guests today. I always appreciate your presence. Your presence
is a present to me. But you know what would
be a bigger present if you shared this episode with somebody,
I'd greatly appreciate it, and I guess I will catch
up with you on our next episode. Make sure that
(28:14):
you are just going out into this world and holding
your head high, being the best version of yourself, and
being confident in everything that you do, even when you
don't always feel so confident. I'm rooting for you, and
I hope you know that. So be well, be good,
and I will chat with you next time. This podcast
(28:41):
is produced by Maziemedia. Maze Media as a woman led
podcast production company that works with small businesses and corporations.
Visit mazimedia dot com for more details on how you
and your organization can go from ideation to podcasting. The
Ten Ten Ten Ten Ten ten
This is amazing media production. Welcome to the Switch Pavoit
Quid podcast, where we get real and dig deep into
the stories of our peers to find out their strategies,
their solutions, and insights you need to help inform your
career transition decisions. I'm your host, Ayanna Angel, and I
(00:23):
started this podcast just after quitting a career in sports
entertainment PR to become an author. I've had multiple career lives,
from designing jewelry worn by Beyonce to show running and
producing award winning podcasts. But my hope is for this
podcast to help you ask yourself the hard questions, for
(00:48):
you to become more self aware, and for you to
ultimately break through whatever is holding you back from taking
a chance on you and the life you truly desire.
This week, we're gonna do a little bit of a throwback.
For those who have been rocking with us for a while,
you may remember this conversation and hopefully it'll serve as
(01:11):
a good reminder for you and for those who are new.
Because we have quite a few new listeners, I want
to introduce you to a conversation that we had back
in twenty twenty one and given the current climate that
we're in with so much uncertainty with people's employment, and
I've seen I can't even tell you how many LinkedIn
posts with people saying keep me in mind for open positions.
(01:34):
I am open to work. I have been laid off
and I'm looking for my next opportunity. I hope that
this conversation comes at a perfect time to be a
resource to people who are really in need of this resource.
We're gonna be talking all about getting a job without applying,
So without further ado, let's get into this conversation. On
(01:57):
today's show, We're chatting with Melanie. Melanie is a career
coach and co founder of Going Places. She's built a
successful career by landing roles at her top choice companies
without ever applying for a single job. After her first role,
she authored Bold, Get Noticed, Get Hired, a book that
provides both inspirational stories and the techniques of people who
(02:21):
set themselves apart to land their dream jobs. It is
now used in college curriculum courses at Lehigh University and
Carnegie Mellon University. In addition to her work as a
career coach, Melanie is also still climbing the corporate letter
at one of Silicon Valley's top tech companies. You all
(02:41):
know how I typically feel about the career coach conversation.
I feel like I'm always talking about this, and that's
partially because I'm inundated with coaches. And this conversation was
different and unique for me, and I loved it because
Melanie is coming from a completely different perspective. She has
(03:04):
a skill set that she's learned along the way of
actually thriving in her career and being able to go
from top company to top company and learning some really
key takeaways as to how you can make these strategic
moves and not actually apply for our job. So I
think you're going to enjoy this chat.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Let's get started, kind of waking that I wanted to
chat with you. I think you have an interesting story
in journey because you are also a nine to five
employee right now as well, and so share with us
a little bit more about how you got into this
career coaching space and how you're navigating your career right now.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
You know what's funny is I never woke up one
day or you know, through college, was like I'm going
to be a career coach it's actually yeah, it's actually
kind of funny how that started. And I'll take it back.
I graduated from college and I flew back to Hawaii,
where I'm from, and I was like, Okay, I'm going
to work in New York City. I'm going to crush it.
(04:07):
You know. I just felt like on top of the world.
I was a finance and marketing major. I played the
division on sport. I had three internships, and I thought, Okay,
I have this in the bag. And I applied to
one hundred jobs a day only to get automated responses
saying no thank you. And I just remember these like
pain points, probably around three months in, and I remember
(04:29):
my mom just being like, how can I help you?
Like do you want to go to Barnes and Noble
and find a book or something?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
It was like I realized, like, did I ever learn
how to apply for a job in college? Like I
don't think so, and so I'm completely struggling. And four
months in, at this point, I catch a webinar on
LinkedIn by Lewis Howes. He said, I challenge you to
reach out to someone you never think you can get
in touch with. And I was like Okay, you know,
(04:59):
I never really this. I've just been applying for a
million jobs and I ended up cold reaching out to
a sportscaster at ESPN because I was like, Okay, I
want to work at ESPN. I played a sport and
I was a business major, so that's the only company
I want to work at, which who knows why I
was thinking that now, but it's that mentality when you
get out of college, you know, clue what you want
(05:20):
to do. And I sent that email off put twenty
five different emails attached to it because I had no
idea what his email was, and I was like, okay,
Meil Dot Everett and Everett like. I just threw it
out there and nothing happened, and I was like, okay,
I'll pause on that. I didn't expect anything. But at
the same time, I started just thinking, wow, maybe I should.
I mean, I have to change something up. At this point,
(05:40):
applying online isn't doing anything, and so I started just
messaging so many people on LinkedIn and through email and
trying to leverage any part of my network I possibly could.
And the funny part I on it is I got
every interview I ever wanted from every single job that
I had on my list. I was like, oh my god,
she was the same person. No one ever responded to
(06:02):
any of the resumes I had sent out, and all
of a sudden, I'm getting responses, which was crazy. Meanwhile,
one month later, Neil Everrett calls my phone and he's like,
how did you get my email address? I was like, Neil,
don't worry about it. But so the funny part was
he got on a call with me and the next
day I had an interview at ESPN.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Was that interview or result of that phone call?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, so I said, Neil, we just we hit it
off on the phone. I was telling him, you know,
I'm from Hawaii. You worked in Hawaii, And he was like,
all right, what do you want from me? And I
was like, all right, well, can I get an interview?
And he called the HR department and he got me
an interview the next day, and everything after that changed
for me, because, you know, I just realized it's all
(06:46):
about human connection, and no one teaches you that in college.
Long story short, I ended up getting a job in
New York City. So I ended up cold emailing the
CEO's assistant. She got me an interview one week later,
I'm flying from Huai to New York City starting and advertising.
Knew nothing about the space or anything, and what really
(07:07):
interested me was did everyone else land their jobs like this?
And I was so curious, and so I ended up
writing a book called Bolds, Get Noticed, to Get Hired,
which was a complete interview series of like thirty people
around the world who I thought did really cool things.
And I was interested how you landed your first job.
So that was a really interesting start to just being
(07:27):
in the space. And you know, naturally, I was speaking
a lot of colleges after I had launched my book,
and I would just get message after message from college
shudn't saying can you help me with my job? Can
you help me launch a job? And I realized that
gave me a ton of energy to help people navigate
their careers. And so, long story short, somehow I fell
into the space and it's something I just absolutely enjoy.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
It seems like you were crafty with trying to figure
out what Neil's email address was, and you were also
crafty with probably seeing that there was a job hosting
available at advertising agency and then going after the assistant
because they're usually the gatekeepers is there something that typically
comes up for you when you're recommending for people to
(08:11):
take certain actions or certain steps when they're trying to
get their foot in the door without a resume.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Absolutely so. I think there's a few things. One in
particular is this mentality of asking people for things. I
don't know about you, but for me, it's like I
get a lot of LinkedIn messages where people are just
asking me to do things and I've never even met
them before.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
And it's one of those things where like, yes, you're
going to carve out time to help people, of course,
but it's this weird, off putting thing when someone's asking
for something and you've never met them. I think the
first thing that I try to train people on in
terms of a mentality, especially from a young age, like
even in high school, is don't ask people for things
when you're creating a network, and you're building a network
(08:53):
from scratch, which you know is the core to getting
referred into a company and getting your foot in the door.
It's about how can you do research on that person
and add value? And the only real ask is can
I have twenty minutes to talk about you and ask
you some specific questions that I have because I find
your background so interesting and so inspirational, and so I
(09:16):
try to get people out of this mentality of Hi,
can you refer.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Me to this company?
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You know, it's like it just feels a little off
putting and I don't think they get the results that
you want. And so yeah, that's the first thing I
usually talk to people about, is like, we're going to
build this from the ground up, and you never are
going to ask people for things. Even if you want
to get introduced to someone, You're going to write that
introduction so all they have to do is press one
button to send it off.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
So tell us, how do you get your current position?
We know that you are doing other work and you're
employed outside of the career coaching work that you do.
How did you land this position?
Speaker 3 (09:54):
So, for one, all of the jobs that I've ever
had in the advertising space, I've never actually applied online.
I really believe like landing your first job is the
toughest because it's so competitive, and so for me, it's
really been about doing the best work I possibly can
and creating a network around me and always having conversations
with people and always asking about them and learning about them,
(10:17):
because ultimately that's how I've gotten every job. It's we
started at one company, people left to other companies and
there's an open role at their company and they're like, oh, wow,
Melanie would be a really good fit for that. Because I,
you know, I try to put my head down and
show that I do quality work because right the end
of the day, your network is what you have, and
so you want people to see you in the best light.
(10:37):
So yeah, it was it was through my network. It
was someone that I had worked with previously who reached
out to me and said, hey, Melanie, are you interested
in this role? I think it'd be a perfect fit.
And I was like, all right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
So in the book bull Get Noticed, Get Hired, what
did you figure out? Was there a common thing that
you were able to come up with or was anything
surprising that you figured out from speaking to the people
that you spoke do for the book.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
It was really interesting because I chose people with all
different backgrounds. It was people who were engineers and in advertising,
and you know, I tried to really pick different industries
and what I realized were two things. So one, not
everyone is extroverted. A lot of people aren't extroverted and
don't feel comfortable like reaching out and having tons of conversations.
(11:27):
One thing was everyone kind of figured out what their
passion was and what gives them energy, and they honed
in on that to then focus on that as they
were getting creative with how they got discovered, and like
what I mean by that is like some people coded
websites and so that was like, you know, they made
these cool websites to put their resume on and like
showcase it. One girl loved legos and so she created
(11:49):
this amazing lego of the logo of the company and
shipped it over to them and was like can I
have a call? Like will I get an interview? It
was just interesting. It was like you don't have to
be good at one specific thing, but everyone's generally interested
in something and it's like, m hm, how can you
turn that something into something that helps you stand out?
And the other piece was, and this is something I
(12:11):
speak about a lot, and it's the elimination of fear
of rejection. All of these people, when I talked to
them and I heard their story, you could easily have said,
are you embarrassed to do what you did? Like there
were guys standing with a desk on Wall Street and
was handing out his resumes like a lemonade stand, and
everyone could have easily said are you embarrassed to do
(12:33):
these things? And no one would ever say that because
they're all really successful now. And so I realized they
removed that fear of rejection and they just went with
it and they didn't care what anyone else thought. And
every single person I interviewed had that commonality, and so
it made me really think a lot about that, and
I was like, I want to be successful. If anyone
wants to be successful, you really have to come straight
(12:56):
up with rejection and say I'm okay with it.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Rejection is deaf definitely a big thing, and I think
it holds so many people that is there anything that
you can think of that maybe somebody can do to
get themselves more comfortable with rejection.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
One of my favorite quotes is you can ask a
hundred people out on a date. If you get ninety
nine o's, that means you have a date. It's like, okay,
you've got nine nine no's, but you have a date,
and you're excited because you have a date. And so
I always say, like, it's so easy to look back
and say, oh, I'm so glad that didn't work out
because I wouldn't be here, or you know, really think
(13:35):
of rejection as redirection later on. But if you can
like in the moment, which is so hard to do.
It's like I have to remind myself of this all
the time, because life is just a series of rejections.
It starts really young, right, and it's like everything it's
like asking someone to prom getting into college, getting into
friend group, like you're just being rejected one thing after another,
(13:58):
and soon you can come to realize that if the
worst thing that's gonna happen is a no, and you're like,
all right, well, I guess I'm okay with that. All
of a sudden it's like this weird lift off your
test and you're like, all right, what's stopping me? And
I feel like so many people fall short of what
they can do because they're so scared to fail. And
(14:21):
you know, I talk with a lot of parents of
students in high school, and I say, be that support
system for your kid while they're going through that push
them to fail so they get used to it, you know,
And I think the earlier we can start failing the
better we're going to be as we get older and
grow into our careers.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Ooh, this is the stuff I like to hear on
the Switch Pavot or quick podcast. But we will be
right back after this quick break.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Can you think back to a time where you had
to make a difficult decision in your career and what
was that.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
I were at Twitter three companies ago now, yeah, and
I was, you know, on the sales team, and I
had this just amazing job and I loved who I
worked with. And one of my clients actually, which was
a small startup of probably around twenty people. I was
working with them for over two years and they had
finally come to me and said, do you want to
come over here and kind of lead our brand sales?
(15:21):
And I thought, I have the most stable job. I
absolutely loved my company. I feel so secure. I have
the best friend group here. Why would I ever leave that.
I usually rely on my gut to make most decisions,
in the sense of I get that feeling, and if
I doubt myself, I usually just overthink it. And so
(15:43):
this one took a really long time because I had
to think through it, and I ended up making the
jump and I went to a startup, which is funny.
They actually this year got acquired by Twitter, so it
was also a Los circle situation. But you know, I
was completely out of my comfort zone. I remember I
just showed up the first day and there was just
a box on my desk and it was the computer.
(16:03):
And they were like, okay, go.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Like no big hr orientation, no passionate.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
You know what, if I never made that move, I
don't think I would be where I'm at today in
my career. Or I think it's important to get outside
your comfort zone and do things that might not always
feel safe, because that's how you grow and get better
in the exposure I had at that startup, which grew
so quickly transform my career, and I'm so thankful that
I went with that and felt so uncomfortable in that
(16:32):
situation to make that move.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Had there ever been a time where you got to yourself,
I need to step it up, and it's so what
did you then do?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Someone would see Twitter on a resume, see these different
companies and say, wow, that's my dream job, and I
think for me, like, when I think about stepping it up,
like ten years into my career, it becomes more about
how can I do more things that give me energy
and make me feel good in my day to day,
then less. You know, so if I can feel fifty
(17:01):
percent of that more than fifty percent of my day
doing things that I enjoy and just and usually those
are the things that I check off my list first, right,
because it's easy, I get it done. And then you know,
they have those items on the list that I never
get done because I don't love them, And for me,
like stepping it up really is in that sense, because
it's how can I grow my career? How can I
keep moving forward? So my life eventually is just made
(17:25):
up of more and more of those things. And I
think it's so easy for people to think like, oh,
this name company, I need to do this, it's going
to be my dream job, and then you get there
and you're like, wait, why did I think that? Again?
It's just like what about this with my dream job?
(17:46):
And so, you know, I think for me, it's like
I enjoy helping people grow their careers. That's something that
like I wake up out of bed and I'm like,
oh my gosh, I can't wait to do that. And
you know, I incorporate that in my nine to five
I incorporate in Going Places, and it's like, you know,
I know, I love working with clients and doing those
types of things. So I usually challenge myself and like
(18:09):
I every so often, probably every six months, I put
a list together of what's giving me energy now and
what stream, and then I try to focus on how
do I do more of the energy piece? And it's
I think it's important for people to identify that every
six months because your life changes so quickly, and you know,
(18:30):
what would be on my list ten years ago is
very different now.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
How does the work that you do in your nine
to five impact or maybe how has it aligned with
the work that you're doing with Going Places. It sounds
like you work with clients on both sides, So is
there any crossover. Is there anything maybe in your nine
to five that helps set you up for the work
(18:54):
that you do with Going Places?
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah? So, and I might take this in a slightly
different direction because I have this this thought around it
and it's I actually realized how companies actually hire and
what the process looks like. And it was something that
I don't ever remember learning. I didn't know, and you know,
I've hired people at companies that I've worked at I've
been on that side of the of the curtain, and
(19:19):
I think, what's so interesting to me? And I don't
know if you feel this way too. I onim you're
led to believe get your four year degree and you
send your resume through online, you have this fighting chance
and that someone's going to see you. Yeah. And I
only learned that it wasn't the case when I got
jobs and when I was in the workforce and I
(19:40):
was hiring people. And what I realized, and this is
something I try to educate people on. This is why
I feel like I really connect with people as I'm
helping them navigate and inspiring them to, you know, land
the job that they want is actually it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Work like that.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And the way it works is there is an open
wor that manager sends an email out to everyone and says, hey,
do you have a great candidate for this role? Send
me referral, Send me referrals, and everyone sends them through
because one, you know, you want to send good people through.
But too, there's an incentive bonus. Every company has it, right,
(20:17):
you know, you make what you can make, like twenty
thousand dollars at some companies I'm sure it's not like
that everywhere, but you can make a lot of money
if you get a candidate hired and then the manager
gets this massive stack of resumes on their desk, and
then all of a sudden they're doing interviews and then
you know, maybe a week later the jobs posted online.
And so what I realized is just this issue. Right,
(20:38):
So one, if you apply online, you're competing against thousands
of people, and if you happen to be seen, if
your resume lands in front of someone, you're behind the
ball because you're competing against people who have had multiple
interviews and they've been referred. And so I think, for me,
what excites me outside of just like what I do
(21:00):
in my you know, in advertising and all that, is
I want to teach people that you're not just worthless
because you're not hearing back, you're actually never seen. And
I think, you know, part of building a more diverse
and inclusive workforce amongst all companies, it starts by creating
that that pool of candidates through referrals. And so I
(21:23):
try to teach people, you know, if you want to
get your resume in front of someone, you need to
build that network from scratch. Develop rapport with people to
the point where they're incentivizing they're going to want to
refer you in. I want people to learn how to
navigate this and know that this is how it works,
so then that way they can start this early.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Has there been any advice or helpful business tips that
you've received throughout your career that maybe stuck with you.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yeah, my old manager, I just always remember this advice
and she said, if you ever want, you know, a
promotion or a raise, package it up like a birthday
gift and send it to your manager with a bow
on it, you know, wrapped up. This advice kind of
clicked for me because I realized when you're looking to
do something like grow your career within your company and
(22:13):
get a promotion or grow you know, your manager is
working with so many different people and it's actually a
lot of work to help them get a promotion and
to get a raise, and there's probably a lot of
paperwork involved with that, and so one, you know, it
made it clicks for me when I was like, oh, okay,
like if I want this, I need to find out
how they are submitting this and I need to basically
(22:34):
submit it for them. And so it was interesting because
I was like, oh, I've never asked the manager what
the process was like to get a raise, like what
do you have to do? What's the heavy lifting? And
then the second piece to that advice was have your
manager work with you on the process six months before.
So most people go into a review and they're like, hey, like,
(22:55):
you know, I want to raise, and it's probably already
been decided at that point, and I I think it's
important to have your manager be on your team and say, listen,
this is what I'm trying to achieve. How can I
get there? And then asking questions like what is this
submission process on your end? Like how can I do
that heavy lifting? So it's good to ask those questions
early on to figure out what your manager has to do.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Let's talk a little bit about negotiating a salary increase
now you have the job.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I never felt like I could negotiate and this was
so much my career and I realized this talking to
my coworkers that you know, one day, I you know,
you develop a port with your coworkers, and I had
one of the guys was the same exact position, with
the same exact years of experience as me, and I
asked him, you know, I was like, okay, let's just
tell each other what we make. And he made ten
(23:43):
thousand dollars more than me, and I was yeah, and
I was like, how did you get that? And He's like,
I asked, I asked, I asked, and I thought back
and I go, I never even asked. So my thoughts
on negotiating, first of all, is you have to take
the emotion out of it. And if you can remove emotion,
(24:03):
and it's all driven by research and almost like presenting
a case, you're going to be so much more successful.
And this could be negotiating your salary, you know, to
start a job, or negotiating a raise. It has nothing
to do with what you want. It has nothing to
do with what you think, you know, this is what
my coworkers are making or whatever. It's about presenting your
(24:25):
case in a very quantitative form to show here's the
value that I'm bringing, here's the research that I've done
in the market. So I think it's important. There's a
lot of resources out there, you know, you can look
on glassdoor and different places to figure out what are
people making. With my years of experience in my location
in this industry, and so I say, you know, do
(24:46):
your research, ask your peers who are similar years of experience,
and ask them to give you a range, you know
of like if they have a similar job or what
they're doing. And so have one piece of that is
this is my value, and here's the research to back
it up. Here are the numbers, and then I think
there's this other piece. So when you're working at a company,
(25:09):
you know, it's so easy to lose track of the
work that you're doing over a certain period of time.
You might have a review session every year, and so
I always tell people, you know, keep a notepad on
your computer that it's keeping track of your wins, but
all in the form of what your manager cares about
in terms of like if you're on the sales side,
(25:29):
how are you adding revenue to the company? Like what
do you bring in? And really capturing that to show.
So when you're building your case out, it's about here's
the value that I should be making based on my research,
and here's everything I've brought to the table, and hear
all the numbers behind it. Here you go hand delivered
with a bone on it. And you know, I think
(25:51):
part of that too, So when you're working at a company,
not only having that piece, but like starting the conversation
early is really important because there's a lot that goes
into getting a raise outside of just having a conversation,
and you know, sometimes your manager has to find the
funds and that takes months. But the one piece for
me is always taking the emotion out because I would
(26:12):
go to the table and I would be so nervous
and I would almost tear up when I was trying
to ask for what I wanted. And then when I
started just using numbers and almost making it like a
case study, it was like, oh, that was easy because
it's not emotional.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So speaking of getting what you deserve and what you want,
what does success.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Mean or look like for you?
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Success is me getting to have conversations, get people aware
of how companies hire, and help them figure out a
pathway to landing their job. Every time I have a
conversation with someone who's in college or trying to find
their first job or navigating, I always just get off
the call and I feel like I just feel like
(26:55):
my tank is full and I just feel amazing. And
what I've learned over the years is it's less about
money for me. It's more about how can I do
more of that? Because you know, at a certain point
it's like if I'm creating my day around things that
give me energy and fill my tank, and I'm so
(27:15):
much happier and it has nothing to do with money.
And so the more I can do of that into
my life, the more successful I would deem myself. And yeah,
that's what.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I would do that. Thank you so much, Melanie for
sharing some of your insights with us. You definitely gave
me some light bulb moments. If everybody wants to look
more into potentially working with you, or follow your career,
or connect with you maybe on LinkedIn, but not ask
you for something, how can they find you and keep
up with you?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
So our website is you are Going Places dot Com
and our handle on social as you go Places.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Thank you so much for spending time with me and
my guests today. I always appreciate your presence. Your presence
is a present to me. But you know what would
be a bigger present if you shared this episode with somebody,
I'd greatly appreciate it, and I guess I will catch
up with you on our next episode. Make sure that
(28:14):
you are just going out into this world and holding
your head high, being the best version of yourself, and
being confident in everything that you do, even when you
don't always feel so confident. I'm rooting for you, and
I hope you know that. So be well, be good,
and I will chat with you next time. This podcast
(28:41):
is produced by Maziemedia. Maze Media as a woman led
podcast production company that works with small businesses and corporations.
Visit mazimedia dot com for more details on how you
and your organization can go from ideation to podcasting. The
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