November 10, 2023 • 29 mins
Rose chats with Sheila Ellis and Dayna Schmit -Johnson about Writual and the company which creates Magical Planners, ritual boxes, and how to learn Tarot with their Decoding the Cards: A Tarot Workbook for Intuitive Exploration workbook and cards.
The Writual Society: https://www.writualsociety.com/
Waiting list for the Writual Society: https://joinwritualsociety.com/
Destiny Tarot: https://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Tarot-Book-Card-Pack/dp/1855857413
Decoding the Cards: A Tarot Workbook for Intuitive Exploration: https://writualplanner.com/collections/all-products-1/products/decoding-the-cards?variant=43929604227327
Writual Sabbot Boxes: https://writualplanner.com/collections/best-sellers/products/writual-box?variant=43542146318591
New Product from Writual - 2024 Cosmic Creation Planner + Astro Stamps Bundle: https://writualplanner.com/collections/all-products-1/products/copy-of-2024-cosmic-creation-planner?variant=44444758409471
Here is a special link for 15% off for you the listeners: https://bit.ly/3NGJhQe
As always, we enjoy hearing your feedback and comments. Send your emails to tarotvisionsshow@gmail.com, or follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/tarot_visions, or on Facebook at http://facebook.com/TarotVisionsUS.
The Writual Society: https://www.writualsociety.com/
Waiting list for the Writual Society: https://joinwritualsociety.com/
Destiny Tarot: https://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Tarot-Book-Card-Pack/dp/1855857413
Decoding the Cards: A Tarot Workbook for Intuitive Exploration: https://writualplanner.com/collections/all-products-1/products/decoding-the-cards?variant=43929604227327
Writual Sabbot Boxes: https://writualplanner.com/collections/best-sellers/products/writual-box?variant=43542146318591
New Product from Writual - 2024 Cosmic Creation Planner + Astro Stamps Bundle: https://writualplanner.com/collections/all-products-1/products/copy-of-2024-cosmic-creation-planner?variant=44444758409471
Here is a special link for 15% off for you the listeners: https://bit.ly/3NGJhQe
As always, we enjoy hearing your feedback and comments. Send your emails to tarotvisionsshow@gmail.com, or follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/tarot_visions, or on Facebook at http://facebook.com/TarotVisionsUS.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
You're listening to Tarot Visions. Joinyour host Rose Red Robinson as she chats
with esoteric luminaries, explores technology touse in one's personal practice, and dives
into witchcraft and magic in everyday life. Well, good morning, and welcome
(00:32):
to Tarot Visions. Today, Ihave the pleasure of speaking with Sheila Ellis
and Okay, Dana, remind mehow to say the whole thing, Dana
Schmidt Johnson brilliant, you got it. Fantastic of Ritual. It's a really
exciting company that I very fortunately havegot to partner with. But I also
(00:54):
have been admiring their products for awhile now, so it was really kind
of nice to have them be willingto be on Tarot Visions. So I
would love to have a little bitmore and know a little bit more about
both of you. So, Sheila, would you mind telling us a little
bit about your background and what gotyou started in all of this? Certainly
(01:15):
so, I guess professionally, mybackground was graphic design. I did a
few years of graphic design work beforegetting into this. I was a stay
at home mom for gosh a littleover a decade and then kind of transferred
into starting Ritual kind of accidentally.The first planner was just a product that
(01:41):
I made for myself and we justkind of took it from there. My
husband owned a print company at thetime that we launched, so that's kind
of how that all came together.What about you, Dana, How did
you get started with ritual? SoI'm just fortunate enough to know Sheila y
Proxy and I have a background inwriting, worked in corporate for a long
(02:05):
time. I'm a journalist at heart, and I absolutely love astrology. It's
just kind of was a little bitof a hobby of mine, and every
now and again I'd post something aboutwhat was going on in the skies for
people. And one day she reachedout and she said, Hey, I'm
working on this project. Do youwant to come help me out? And
(02:25):
I said yes because that sounds amazingand way better than corporate law. Yes,
sometimes right, So when was thefirst planner that you guys did together?
When did that happen? Oh?What was it? Dana? How
was this track of time twenty twentyone was first twenty twenty one? Yes,
(02:49):
we've it was like, honest oftwenty twenty that we were launching the
twenty twenty one planner, which wasour yeah, our maiden voyage. So
that made that made pandemic a littlebit easier. I would think, you
guys got to spend time together andnot have to worry about being in each
other's homes because well you couldn't,right right, Yeah, yeah, it
(03:09):
was a good situation to be induring that time, you know, quarantine
everything, to just be virtual andyeah, not be reliant on jobs that
were kind of in person right inthat moment. That sounds fantastic. So
then what led you to do decideto do the decoding the cards with the
(03:29):
tarot book? Very honest answer,My husband made me do it. I
did not, you know, impostersyndrome whatever. I wasn't sure. I
really was up to the task andhad been doing a course for our membership
group, and yeah, he wasjust like, you already have it written.
(03:53):
Why aren't you putting this together?Yeah, So he just really lit
a fire under me and pushed meto make that big Gary leap and get
that out in the world. Soshare a little bit more about this course.
So were you teaching a course ontaro? Is that yes? And
no? So it was just aself guided, self paced course for our
(04:15):
closed membership group. So in additionto our planner business, we also have
the Ritual Society, which is apaid membership monthly you know, renewal group.
And so within that we did justkind of like you know, PDFs
whatever, self paced guide through allof the cards tarot course. Yeah,
(04:36):
and then did that also lead youto create the deck because I noticed that
that's not the usual one. Imean, yes, it hints at what
most people are used to when they'refirst learning taro, but it's your take
on it, I think. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So Modern Hugh
was actually a deck that I hadkind of had in the back of my
brain for decades. Now. Iactually am really fond of the smith Waite
(05:00):
taro, but those colors can bea little bit jarring sometimes. So I
was kind of had it in myhead, like, I like, how
recognizable that imagery is and just howclassic it is. But yeah, I
just kind of wanted to soften itdown and modernize it. So we did
kind of the water color take onthat instead. It took me quite a
(05:20):
while to finally get that done,but yeah, it was kind of on
the on the back burner for quitea while. And so what led you
to decide that that was the tarotthough, because again being that your your
love of it, is that isthat a reason or was that one of
this the deck that you felt wasthe easiest for you to learn? Mm
(05:44):
hmmm, I think a combination.I think it's. Yeah, it was
the easiest for me to learn.I think it's the easiest. Maybe not
for everyone to learn, but it'seasiest for everyone to learn because it's the
most recognizable. It's any book thatyou pick off off the shelf is going
to reference the characters, so theway they're standing, or the other objects
(06:05):
that are in the picture, etcetera. So you know, some people
like you have that intuitive connection tocertain art pieces. But if you're starting
from absolute scratch and trying to usereference materials to guide yourself through learning the
tarot, that deck is the onethat's going to be the easiest for you
(06:25):
to start with because it's the oneeverybody talks about. It's going to add
to that. Yeah, Like Ididn't even know because I'm astrology and not
taro focused, that I had beenusing a pip deck for years, you
know, And so that's so muchmore difficult to learn because all you have
to focus on are the number ofPentacles stores whatever that's on the card,
(06:48):
rather than an actual image, Soreally getting into that writer weight imagery for
me as a really basic tarot playused to start this book. And that
deck was excellent and we just getso many comments and compliments on the colors.
(07:09):
It really resonates with our audience andour customers. People absolutely love it,
and I tend to agree if itwasn't the witchy month that it is,
I would be using it right nowthere. So what deck was your
first deck then, Danie? JustI think it was called the Destiny Taro.
(07:30):
Yeah, and I mean you can'tsee that. Yes, it was
called the Destiny Tarot. And it'sreally large cards too. The nice thing
about the modern Hue deck is thatthey're you know, standard size, so
you can they're easier to shuffle,they're easier to work with. They really
got a nice card stock, sothey're really lovely because and these are just
(07:51):
things you don't know when you're sonew to taro, right, you just
pick up something that seems great toyou, right. That one had vibrant
for me and that's why I pickedit or initially, but once you really
start diving into the meanings of them. You know. Obviously starting with this
Tarot course in the ritual society thatwe have was a big jumping off point
(08:15):
for us. And then we havea challenge, a seven day challenge for
any deck that very much goes throughall of the imagery of the cards.
So if you're using a PIP deck, it's going to be kind of useless
to you. Truth truth, Iam a fan of the of the illustrated
pips myself versus just the symbols.So then I would ask you both,
(08:37):
while you were on this journey oflearning this for yourselves and then sharing it
with the society that you created,what would be the one thing you would
remind folks as they were going along, What things came up that people often
asked you about how you're teaching tothem. Hmmm, that's a good question,
(08:58):
you know, I think for andforemost people always get stuck on just
the overwhelm of trying to memorize seventyeight different cards and their meanings. And
I think particularly the major iconic cards, you know, the miners are way
more simplified, I think in theirmeanings, and you can look at it
and go oh, okay, sothese people are doing this thing right now,
(09:22):
so your mind goes in that directionof what it means. But the
majors and then the court cards,of course, you know, I don't
have to tell you that. Everybody'slike what I don't get in the ball.
Yeah, So I would say,like, my advice on that is
just be patient with yourself and youdon't have to memorize absolutely every keyword.
And then I would say, also, like for me, what when I
(09:45):
was learning ages and ages ago,I was just beating my head against a
wall until I think what turned itaround for me is when I could connect
that to something that I had experienced, you know, rather than just all
right, this you so this cardmeans this thing off in over here,
you know, like when I went, oh, like that time that I
(10:07):
went through this with this person andthen this was the outcome, and then
that is kind of what connects itthen and brings it all full circle.
What about for you, Dana?What was surprising for you? I think
one of the great pieces of advicethat I have gotten is to connect the
cards to something you already know.For me, that's astrology, right,
(10:31):
So each card has a connection tothe stars. So that's how I really
started not just learning them, butbeing able to recall them easily because I
had that, oh, this cardis similar to this planet or this sign,
you know, and so I wasable to make that connection and that's
(10:52):
really helped over time. I thinkthe other thing is to trust yourself,
right, like you already have theguidance in you, and I do think
that they're with all of the memorizationand all of the cards and all of
the possible meanings that come with that, that it can get really overwhelming very
(11:13):
easily. But if you trust yourselfthat the message is coming through that you
need to hear, that's really,at the end of the day, all
you need to take away. Andso as you're going through your course,
do you suggest people just go sectionby section? Do they bounce around?
What is the best way that youall have found while you're sharing this with
(11:35):
folks? So we present it ina way that we just go card by
card, and like I said,this is the Yeah, it's the backbone
for that book. So the coursewas a less polished version of what is
in that book. Now, Soit's card by card. Here's what traditionally
(11:56):
it means now you break it apart. You decide what resonates with you and
what doesn't, what you want tothrow out, you know, connect it
to your life experiences and the otherthings that you know. And yeah,
so, but then you can goback and forth. You don't have to
just touch on one card once andthen move forward and never look back at
(12:18):
it again. You know. It'sa constantly moving process where you're going backwards
and forwards and revisiting. You know, some things are going to automatically resonate
with you more the first time,and others you're going to have to revisit
thirty times before it finally clicks,you know. Well, and that was
the one thing I loved about yourbook is that it's more of a work
(12:39):
book, unless of a read this, do this kind of thing. It's
a read this, do this,and now write your experiences down and here's
space to do it, which isvery it's not unusual, but it's it's
it's not as of found as often. I've only found it that detailed in
one other book that I happen tolove, which and that's what it reminded
(13:00):
me of, was Mary kay Grier'sTaro for Yourself and I really appreciated the
thought that you guys put into here'sthese questions, here's this journal space,
here's the you know, here's howwe are did our card, here's the
standard traditional card. And I reallyloved that about this, so thank you
for that. And then I discovered, as I dug through your website,
you also do ritual boxes. Sowhat inspired you guys to start doing that?
(13:30):
You know, that's a good question. I think probably the part of
that was just that I really wanteda ritual box sent to me for all
the sabots, and I couldn't findone out there that had anything good in
it. So I was like,you know what, we're going to do
this. You know, I reallylove kind of cultivating those things, putting
(13:52):
all that together. Curating, Iguess is really the word. I love
curating this sort of stuff for myself, and so then I wanted to just
share that with other people too,and provide a service that is kind of
hard to find right now. Andyou were going to say, Dana,
I was going to add that westarted last saling. So it was this
(14:15):
idea of creating an experience for yourselfright in a place where not a lot
of people have the opportunity to cometogether, necessarily in person and especially during
COVID times, right, so youcan have that little moment of ritual for
yourself and we've provided you everything youneed to do it. Well. I've
(14:37):
had too that, like our choicestoo, are not too serious. I'm
not a big fan of taking anythingtoo seriously. So we try and mix
it up a little bit, andyou know, and give you your alter
items, your true ritual items,but then also just fun stuff that you're
going to enjoy and connect to.You don't have to be so serious about.
(15:00):
Well, I can say that I'vereceived a couple of the boxes myself
because I decided to. I waslooking for also a ritual box again that
you know, could go with theSabbots, and I appreciated that there was
this back in the day. Therewas like one Cysts that did it.
But like I got yours, andI'm like, wait a minute, there's
a journal in it, there's thisin it, There's all these interesting pieces.
(15:22):
This one I really loved too,and as you said, there's a
fun bit. And I'm going toopen the box again as I pull it
over to myself, because I broughtit with me to do this thing.
I really loved the journal and Ilove the fact that you guys have space
for people to do their own ritual. You've got information about how to do
gatherings and and different easy to seecrystals that go with the season, as
(15:48):
well as you know, a shorthistory of the holiday itself and ways to
really look at it, and thenof course a taro spread of course,
and yes I'm showing this to theaudience that can't see it other than my
lovely guess. But the one thingthat jumped out at me, of course,
the very first thing is because wellit is that witchy season time and
(16:11):
you included plant chet earrings. Ithought that was the best thing. It's
a little bit of fun and soyeah, and I think that's the best
thing about this is like there's theselittle bits of fun that you get to
use as well as you know thethings you need for a ritual, like
oh, I don't know, charcoalsalt which is important, black salt,
(16:36):
or crystals that you can use duringthe during your process. So when you're
looking for products for these boxes,what inspires you to do the fun part
and what inspires you to do whatyou write in the little book that goes
with the holiday. M hmm,well, I guess my process of looking
(16:56):
for products is first and foremost,we source products from small business makers.
Unlike some other subscription boxes that willremain nameless. We don't just go overseas
and get a whole ton of thecheapest thing we can find to send out.
You know, it's really important tome that we're supporting other small businesses.
(17:19):
I love women owned small businesses,being that that's what we are,
and so I kind of start thereand then honestly, I just kind of
go for what inspires me. Youknow, I don't necessarily sit down every
time with something in mind of theseare the eight items that I want to
find. It's just kind of Ispend hours and hours surfing through all of
(17:41):
the stuff that I can find outthere, and I go, oh,
that really hits home for me rightnow and for this season, and you
know, like really ties into theSabbat or even just the weather, the
you know, the time of yearthat it is, whatever to really kind
of stuff together to give people,you know, when they open that box
(18:02):
that feeling of oh yeah, it'ssowin. And then of course, yeah,
we try and connect those to theworkbooks as well as much as possible,
so that it all just is harmonious. Well, and again, what
inspired you to do add the workbook, because again most subscription boxes don't have
something like that. The workbook actuallyprecedes the boxes. We've been doing the
(18:26):
workbooks for two years now, alittle over two years now, and then
we just started the boxes last Sealin, so we have been doing these workbooks.
We started out with monthly, sowe were sending a workbook every single
month, and then we from thereadded on sabbat workbooks, and we were
just getting such a great response outof those, and people really enjoying the
(18:48):
workbooks themselves that they just made senseto include in the boxes when we decided
to add products to that workbook experience. And so would you mind sharing a
little bit about how you found thisritual space for yourself, how what path
you got to get here, ifyou wouldn't want just to give people a
(19:11):
little taste of where your ye reallycomes from. I guess I ended up
here a little haphazardly, I supposein fits and starts, if that makes
sense. So I had a looselyChristian upbringing. You know, we were
there on Christmas, even Easter,and kind of forgot about it the rest
(19:32):
of the year type thing. ButI remember, even very young, it
just really didn't hit home with me. It didn't really make sense to me,
you know, that prescribed doctrine.So I did a lot of just
kind of searching for myself through myteens and early twenties. And I was
such a goth kid in my lateteens and early twenties, So of course
(19:55):
I don't know. I wouldn't saythat it was because I was goth,
but that I was goth because Ijust am what was drawn to kind of
the strange and unusual and this stuffthat doesn't necessarily meanstream and has a little
edge to it. And yeah,so then of course that's taro and that's
all the all the witchiness out there. Yeah. And then so when my
I started having kids, I kindof had a hiatus from all of it.
(20:19):
You know, life gets in theway and gets busy, and so
it was probably around the time thatmy youngest daughter, So I have a
son and four daughters, So whenthe littlest one was headed off to Part
Bay school and I had a chanceto breathe, the first thing that I
came to was kind of like,wow, I really just miss having any
(20:41):
soul connection, you know, outthere. So I kind of just restarted
the whole journey again, going backto when was the last time I really
felt connected? What was I doingthen? And I just kicked it all
back up again, and then itvery quickly turned into ritual nice And what
about you, Dana. It's funnybecause I kind of have the opposite experience.
(21:06):
I grew up in the church.I was very involved throughout middle school,
high school. When I went tocollege, left that community, you
know, and searched and searched andsearched to find another one, not necessarily
church based, you know, butsomething so led and you know that connection
too. And I found Susan Miller, the astrologer, and have followed her
(21:33):
pretty much religiously ever since. Butyou know, she really turned me onto
this whole new world of how toappreciate and read and understand astrology in a
way that I hadn't previously. Andso that kind of kicked that, you
know, off for me. Thatjust kind of grew and grew over time,
(21:55):
and so I just feel very luckykind of coming full circle back into
having this experience with a beautiful,amazing, soul led community within the virtual
society, you know, getting towork with Virtual Planner and having all of
these wonderful experiences that connect who Iwant to be in once was with who
(22:17):
I am now. Nice. Well, I know that you guys, with
your planners in the most recently youhave had these planners where it's got a
Tarot card a day or three cardsa day, and you do offer them
as two different options, so youdon't have to you know, you don't
have to choose if you don't wantto, but if you do want to,
you get that very specific. ButI also saw that there's this new
(22:38):
thing you've got coming out. Canyou tell me a little bit about it.
It's called the Cosmic Planner, CosmicCreation Planner, So that is our
brand new creation. I guess thecatalyst behind that was that I just really
wanted to provide something to non cardreaders, you know, that could kind
(23:03):
of give them the same daily experienceof sitting down and tapping into themselves and
the universe and but not have toread cards. So the focus of this
one, rather than tracking your yourTarot cards daily, is manifestation. You
know what are you manifesting? Soevery day it gives you space to say,
(23:29):
you know, what am I gratefulfor? And then what am I
proud of accomplishing? Like what whathave I already? What goals have I
already hit along my way here?And then what am I manifesting? What
do I still have my eye on? You know that I'm going after?
You know, because there's so muchtalk about manifesting all the way from oh,
think it and you'll have it toyou know, I don't believe that.
(23:52):
Think it and then figure out whataction steps you can take to bring
you closer to that goal. Sothis is in that camp of what do
I want? What steps do Ineed to take? What am I What
am I grateful for? What amI happy for? And yeah, and
then what am I proud of havingdone already? Fantastic? Well, where
(24:15):
can we find these What is thebest way for people to find your products?
Obviously yes on our website, Iwould say, if we're not already
stocking you on Facebook and Instagram,then yes, straight to our website which
is Ritualplanner dot com w R It U A L planner dot com.
It has everything, all of ourplanners, all of our workbooks, all
(24:38):
of our subscription boxes, decks,whatever whatever else we have going on right
now, which we do have kindof like a shifting inventory of some other
products that we source from other small, small maker businesses. And what about
the society if people were interested,could you tell us a little bit more
about what they could get if theyjoined and what that entailed. Yeah,
(25:03):
So the Ritual Society you can findthat at ritualsociety dot com is a membership
group. We are not currently open. We will open again at the end
of December. You can put yourname on a wait list though, and
we will let you know when wereopen. It's a really amazing community of
you know, like minded people,a lot of taro people of course,
(25:26):
a lot of astrology type people.So it's that kind of group and we're
all just really open to you know, helping each other and finding out more
about ourselves. And I would say, in addition to the community aspect,
which really is like the gem ofthe whole thing to just have people on
the same page to discuss with,we do have a guest teacher that teaches
(25:48):
a workshop every month, so that'salways changing. The topic is we have
monthly tarot class. We have amonthly yoga like yoga astrology type class.
What else do we have? Wehave a book club, we have a
buddy program. I'm sure we talkabout the full moons, the new moons
(26:11):
that. Yeah, we've got alot going on there. The society itself
has many, many, many opportunitiesto get involved. Well. It sounds
really exciting, and I look forwardto hearing more about this as the year
comes and getting myself maybe possibly onthat way. I know I've been enjoying
the boxes and I will be doingsome sharing of that soon. What is
(26:34):
one thing that you would want peopleto take away from this conversation in regards
to how to work with your products? I think my number one priority when
people pick up our products is thatthey just make it their own and do
it their own way. I amnot a big rule follower. I don't
(26:56):
find much use for them. Ithink everything is always better when you can
find a way to adapt it toyour own personal needs. So I would
just encourage people to not take itso seriously and so literally, and you
don't have to do it any oneway. So we try and make everything
that we do very supportive, butalso flexible enough that you can make it
(27:21):
work for exactly where you're at andwhat you need in the moment. And
what else would you say, Dana, I would add, just come to
it from where you're at. Youknow, you don't need to do anything
extra, you don't need to beanyone different than who you already are.
Pick the product that works right foryou, you know, pick the plan
(27:42):
or that is the best fit,and just get started right. I think
a lot of people have to havetrouble just beginning things, and once you
can get into that flow' you'll justkeep going. Well, thank you both
for taking this morning to chat withme about this and getting some information out
(28:07):
about this wonderful stuff that you guyshave been doing. I know I've been
enjoying seeing it on my Instagram andmy Facebook as well, and then finding
out more about the society as well. So thank you, and again we'll
have notes in the show, shownotes about where you can find the product,
where you can chat with Dana andwith Sheila when they have time because
they're very busy women doing all thethings, and of course links to join
(28:32):
the society if that is something you'reinterested in or being able to pick up
the Sabbat boxes because I know forme as an act of which it's a
nice little added bonus to my alreadygrowing practices, I do it. So
thank you both for your time,and I really appreciate it. Thanks so
much, Thank you, Rose.You've been listening to Terro Visions. Our
(28:56):
theme music is Melting Fired Dance byJulius H. Michael Charboneau is our editor.
Come continue the conversation by joining Roseon Twitter at Taro Underscore Visions or
on Facebook at Tarot Visions Us
You're listening to Tarot Visions. Joinyour host Rose Red Robinson as she chats
with esoteric luminaries, explores technology touse in one's personal practice, and dives
into witchcraft and magic in everyday life. Well, good morning, and welcome
(00:32):
to Tarot Visions. Today, Ihave the pleasure of speaking with Sheila Ellis
and Okay, Dana, remind mehow to say the whole thing, Dana
Schmidt Johnson brilliant, you got it. Fantastic of Ritual. It's a really
exciting company that I very fortunately havegot to partner with. But I also
(00:54):
have been admiring their products for awhile now, so it was really kind
of nice to have them be willingto be on Tarot Visions. So I
would love to have a little bitmore and know a little bit more about
both of you. So, Sheila, would you mind telling us a little
bit about your background and what gotyou started in all of this? Certainly
(01:15):
so, I guess professionally, mybackground was graphic design. I did a
few years of graphic design work beforegetting into this. I was a stay
at home mom for gosh a littleover a decade and then kind of transferred
into starting Ritual kind of accidentally.The first planner was just a product that
(01:41):
I made for myself and we justkind of took it from there. My
husband owned a print company at thetime that we launched, so that's kind
of how that all came together.What about you, Dana, How did
you get started with ritual? SoI'm just fortunate enough to know Sheila y
Proxy and I have a background inwriting, worked in corporate for a long
(02:05):
time. I'm a journalist at heart, and I absolutely love astrology. It's
just kind of was a little bitof a hobby of mine, and every
now and again I'd post something aboutwhat was going on in the skies for
people. And one day she reachedout and she said, Hey, I'm
working on this project. Do youwant to come help me out? And
(02:25):
I said yes because that sounds amazingand way better than corporate law. Yes,
sometimes right, So when was thefirst planner that you guys did together?
When did that happen? Oh?What was it? Dana? How
was this track of time twenty twentyone was first twenty twenty one? Yes,
(02:49):
we've it was like, honest oftwenty twenty that we were launching the
twenty twenty one planner, which wasour yeah, our maiden voyage. So
that made that made pandemic a littlebit easier. I would think, you
guys got to spend time together andnot have to worry about being in each
other's homes because well you couldn't,right right, Yeah, yeah, it
(03:09):
was a good situation to be induring that time, you know, quarantine
everything, to just be virtual andyeah, not be reliant on jobs that
were kind of in person right inthat moment. That sounds fantastic. So
then what led you to do decideto do the decoding the cards with the
(03:29):
tarot book? Very honest answer,My husband made me do it. I
did not, you know, impostersyndrome whatever. I wasn't sure. I
really was up to the task andhad been doing a course for our membership
group, and yeah, he wasjust like, you already have it written.
(03:53):
Why aren't you putting this together?Yeah, So he just really lit
a fire under me and pushed meto make that big Gary leap and get
that out in the world. Soshare a little bit more about this course.
So were you teaching a course ontaro? Is that yes? And
no? So it was just aself guided, self paced course for our
(04:15):
closed membership group. So in additionto our planner business, we also have
the Ritual Society, which is apaid membership monthly you know, renewal group.
And so within that we did justkind of like you know, PDFs
whatever, self paced guide through allof the cards tarot course. Yeah,
(04:36):
and then did that also lead youto create the deck because I noticed that
that's not the usual one. Imean, yes, it hints at what
most people are used to when they'refirst learning taro, but it's your take
on it, I think. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So Modern Hugh
was actually a deck that I hadkind of had in the back of my
brain for decades. Now. Iactually am really fond of the smith Waite
(05:00):
taro, but those colors can bea little bit jarring sometimes. So I
was kind of had it in myhead, like, I like, how
recognizable that imagery is and just howclassic it is. But yeah, I
just kind of wanted to soften itdown and modernize it. So we did
kind of the water color take onthat instead. It took me quite a
(05:20):
while to finally get that done,but yeah, it was kind of on
the on the back burner for quitea while. And so what led you
to decide that that was the tarotthough, because again being that your your
love of it, is that isthat a reason or was that one of
this the deck that you felt wasthe easiest for you to learn? Mm
(05:44):
hmmm, I think a combination.I think it's. Yeah, it was
the easiest for me to learn.I think it's the easiest. Maybe not
for everyone to learn, but it'seasiest for everyone to learn because it's the
most recognizable. It's any book thatyou pick off off the shelf is going
to reference the characters, so theway they're standing, or the other objects
(06:05):
that are in the picture, etcetera. So you know, some people
like you have that intuitive connection tocertain art pieces. But if you're starting
from absolute scratch and trying to usereference materials to guide yourself through learning the
tarot, that deck is the onethat's going to be the easiest for you
(06:25):
to start with because it's the oneeverybody talks about. It's going to add
to that. Yeah, Like Ididn't even know because I'm astrology and not
taro focused, that I had beenusing a pip deck for years, you
know, And so that's so muchmore difficult to learn because all you have
to focus on are the number ofPentacles stores whatever that's on the card,
(06:48):
rather than an actual image, Soreally getting into that writer weight imagery for
me as a really basic tarot playused to start this book. And that
deck was excellent and we just getso many comments and compliments on the colors.
(07:09):
It really resonates with our audience andour customers. People absolutely love it,
and I tend to agree if itwasn't the witchy month that it is,
I would be using it right nowthere. So what deck was your
first deck then, Danie? JustI think it was called the Destiny Taro.
(07:30):
Yeah, and I mean you can'tsee that. Yes, it was
called the Destiny Tarot. And it'sreally large cards too. The nice thing
about the modern Hue deck is thatthey're you know, standard size, so
you can they're easier to shuffle,they're easier to work with. They really
got a nice card stock, sothey're really lovely because and these are just
(07:51):
things you don't know when you're sonew to taro, right, you just
pick up something that seems great toyou, right. That one had vibrant
for me and that's why I pickedit or initially, but once you really
start diving into the meanings of them. You know. Obviously starting with this
Tarot course in the ritual society thatwe have was a big jumping off point
(08:15):
for us. And then we havea challenge, a seven day challenge for
any deck that very much goes throughall of the imagery of the cards.
So if you're using a PIP deck, it's going to be kind of useless
to you. Truth truth, Iam a fan of the of the illustrated
pips myself versus just the symbols.So then I would ask you both,
(08:37):
while you were on this journey oflearning this for yourselves and then sharing it
with the society that you created,what would be the one thing you would
remind folks as they were going along, What things came up that people often
asked you about how you're teaching tothem. Hmmm, that's a good question,
(08:58):
you know, I think for andforemost people always get stuck on just
the overwhelm of trying to memorize seventyeight different cards and their meanings. And
I think particularly the major iconic cards, you know, the miners are way
more simplified, I think in theirmeanings, and you can look at it
and go oh, okay, sothese people are doing this thing right now,
(09:22):
so your mind goes in that directionof what it means. But the
majors and then the court cards,of course, you know, I don't
have to tell you that. Everybody'slike what I don't get in the ball.
Yeah, So I would say,like, my advice on that is
just be patient with yourself and youdon't have to memorize absolutely every keyword.
And then I would say, also, like for me, what when I
(09:45):
was learning ages and ages ago,I was just beating my head against a
wall until I think what turned itaround for me is when I could connect
that to something that I had experienced, you know, rather than just all
right, this you so this cardmeans this thing off in over here,
you know, like when I went, oh, like that time that I
(10:07):
went through this with this person andthen this was the outcome, and then
that is kind of what connects itthen and brings it all full circle.
What about for you, Dana?What was surprising for you? I think
one of the great pieces of advicethat I have gotten is to connect the
cards to something you already know.For me, that's astrology, right,
(10:31):
So each card has a connection tothe stars. So that's how I really
started not just learning them, butbeing able to recall them easily because I
had that, oh, this cardis similar to this planet or this sign,
you know, and so I wasable to make that connection and that's
(10:52):
really helped over time. I thinkthe other thing is to trust yourself,
right, like you already have theguidance in you, and I do think
that they're with all of the memorizationand all of the cards and all of
the possible meanings that come with that, that it can get really overwhelming very
(11:13):
easily. But if you trust yourselfthat the message is coming through that you
need to hear, that's really,at the end of the day, all
you need to take away. Andso as you're going through your course,
do you suggest people just go sectionby section? Do they bounce around?
What is the best way that youall have found while you're sharing this with
(11:35):
folks? So we present it ina way that we just go card by
card, and like I said,this is the Yeah, it's the backbone
for that book. So the coursewas a less polished version of what is
in that book. Now, Soit's card by card. Here's what traditionally
(11:56):
it means now you break it apart. You decide what resonates with you and
what doesn't, what you want tothrow out, you know, connect it
to your life experiences and the otherthings that you know. And yeah,
so, but then you can goback and forth. You don't have to
just touch on one card once andthen move forward and never look back at
(12:18):
it again. You know. It'sa constantly moving process where you're going backwards
and forwards and revisiting. You know, some things are going to automatically resonate
with you more the first time,and others you're going to have to revisit
thirty times before it finally clicks,you know. Well, and that was
the one thing I loved about yourbook is that it's more of a work
(12:39):
book, unless of a read this, do this kind of thing. It's
a read this, do this,and now write your experiences down and here's
space to do it, which isvery it's not unusual, but it's it's
it's not as of found as often. I've only found it that detailed in
one other book that I happen tolove, which and that's what it reminded
(13:00):
me of, was Mary kay Grier'sTaro for Yourself and I really appreciated the
thought that you guys put into here'sthese questions, here's this journal space,
here's the you know, here's howwe are did our card, here's the
standard traditional card. And I reallyloved that about this, so thank you
for that. And then I discovered, as I dug through your website,
you also do ritual boxes. Sowhat inspired you guys to start doing that?
(13:30):
You know, that's a good question. I think probably the part of
that was just that I really wanteda ritual box sent to me for all
the sabots, and I couldn't findone out there that had anything good in
it. So I was like,you know what, we're going to do
this. You know, I reallylove kind of cultivating those things, putting
(13:52):
all that together. Curating, Iguess is really the word. I love
curating this sort of stuff for myself, and so then I wanted to just
share that with other people too,and provide a service that is kind of
hard to find right now. Andyou were going to say, Dana,
I was going to add that westarted last saling. So it was this
(14:15):
idea of creating an experience for yourselfright in a place where not a lot
of people have the opportunity to cometogether, necessarily in person and especially during
COVID times, right, so youcan have that little moment of ritual for
yourself and we've provided you everything youneed to do it. Well. I've
(14:37):
had too that, like our choicestoo, are not too serious. I'm
not a big fan of taking anythingtoo seriously. So we try and mix
it up a little bit, andyou know, and give you your alter
items, your true ritual items,but then also just fun stuff that you're
going to enjoy and connect to.You don't have to be so serious about.
(15:00):
Well, I can say that I'vereceived a couple of the boxes myself
because I decided to. I waslooking for also a ritual box again that
you know, could go with theSabbots, and I appreciated that there was
this back in the day. Therewas like one Cysts that did it.
But like I got yours, andI'm like, wait a minute, there's
a journal in it, there's thisin it, There's all these interesting pieces.
(15:22):
This one I really loved too,and as you said, there's a
fun bit. And I'm going toopen the box again as I pull it
over to myself, because I broughtit with me to do this thing.
I really loved the journal and Ilove the fact that you guys have space
for people to do their own ritual. You've got information about how to do
gatherings and and different easy to seecrystals that go with the season, as
(15:48):
well as you know, a shorthistory of the holiday itself and ways to
really look at it, and thenof course a taro spread of course,
and yes I'm showing this to theaudience that can't see it other than my
lovely guess. But the one thingthat jumped out at me, of course,
the very first thing is because wellit is that witchy season time and
(16:11):
you included plant chet earrings. Ithought that was the best thing. It's
a little bit of fun and soyeah, and I think that's the best
thing about this is like there's theselittle bits of fun that you get to
use as well as you know thethings you need for a ritual, like
oh, I don't know, charcoalsalt which is important, black salt,
(16:36):
or crystals that you can use duringthe during your process. So when you're
looking for products for these boxes,what inspires you to do the fun part
and what inspires you to do whatyou write in the little book that goes
with the holiday. M hmm,well, I guess my process of looking
(16:56):
for products is first and foremost,we source products from small business makers.
Unlike some other subscription boxes that willremain nameless. We don't just go overseas
and get a whole ton of thecheapest thing we can find to send out.
You know, it's really important tome that we're supporting other small businesses.
(17:19):
I love women owned small businesses,being that that's what we are,
and so I kind of start thereand then honestly, I just kind of
go for what inspires me. Youknow, I don't necessarily sit down every
time with something in mind of theseare the eight items that I want to
find. It's just kind of Ispend hours and hours surfing through all of
(17:41):
the stuff that I can find outthere, and I go, oh,
that really hits home for me rightnow and for this season, and you
know, like really ties into theSabbat or even just the weather, the
you know, the time of yearthat it is, whatever to really kind
of stuff together to give people,you know, when they open that box
(18:02):
that feeling of oh yeah, it'ssowin. And then of course, yeah,
we try and connect those to theworkbooks as well as much as possible,
so that it all just is harmonious. Well, and again, what
inspired you to do add the workbook, because again most subscription boxes don't have
something like that. The workbook actuallyprecedes the boxes. We've been doing the
(18:26):
workbooks for two years now, alittle over two years now, and then
we just started the boxes last Sealin, so we have been doing these workbooks.
We started out with monthly, sowe were sending a workbook every single
month, and then we from thereadded on sabbat workbooks, and we were
just getting such a great response outof those, and people really enjoying the
(18:48):
workbooks themselves that they just made senseto include in the boxes when we decided
to add products to that workbook experience. And so would you mind sharing a
little bit about how you found thisritual space for yourself, how what path
you got to get here, ifyou wouldn't want just to give people a
(19:11):
little taste of where your ye reallycomes from. I guess I ended up
here a little haphazardly, I supposein fits and starts, if that makes
sense. So I had a looselyChristian upbringing. You know, we were
there on Christmas, even Easter,and kind of forgot about it the rest
(19:32):
of the year type thing. ButI remember, even very young, it
just really didn't hit home with me. It didn't really make sense to me,
you know, that prescribed doctrine.So I did a lot of just
kind of searching for myself through myteens and early twenties. And I was
such a goth kid in my lateteens and early twenties, So of course
(19:55):
I don't know. I wouldn't saythat it was because I was goth,
but that I was goth because Ijust am what was drawn to kind of
the strange and unusual and this stuffthat doesn't necessarily meanstream and has a little
edge to it. And yeah,so then of course that's taro and that's
all the all the witchiness out there. Yeah. And then so when my
I started having kids, I kindof had a hiatus from all of it.
(20:19):
You know, life gets in theway and gets busy, and so
it was probably around the time thatmy youngest daughter, So I have a
son and four daughters, So whenthe littlest one was headed off to Part
Bay school and I had a chanceto breathe, the first thing that I
came to was kind of like,wow, I really just miss having any
(20:41):
soul connection, you know, outthere. So I kind of just restarted
the whole journey again, going backto when was the last time I really
felt connected? What was I doingthen? And I just kicked it all
back up again, and then itvery quickly turned into ritual nice And what
about you, Dana. It's funnybecause I kind of have the opposite experience.
(21:06):
I grew up in the church.I was very involved throughout middle school,
high school. When I went tocollege, left that community, you
know, and searched and searched andsearched to find another one, not necessarily
church based, you know, butsomething so led and you know that connection
too. And I found Susan Miller, the astrologer, and have followed her
(21:33):
pretty much religiously ever since. Butyou know, she really turned me onto
this whole new world of how toappreciate and read and understand astrology in a
way that I hadn't previously. Andso that kind of kicked that, you
know, off for me. Thatjust kind of grew and grew over time,
(21:55):
and so I just feel very luckykind of coming full circle back into
having this experience with a beautiful,amazing, soul led community within the virtual
society, you know, getting towork with Virtual Planner and having all of
these wonderful experiences that connect who Iwant to be in once was with who
(22:17):
I am now. Nice. Well, I know that you guys, with
your planners in the most recently youhave had these planners where it's got a
Tarot card a day or three cardsa day, and you do offer them
as two different options, so youdon't have to you know, you don't
have to choose if you don't wantto, but if you do want to,
you get that very specific. ButI also saw that there's this new
(22:38):
thing you've got coming out. Canyou tell me a little bit about it.
It's called the Cosmic Planner, CosmicCreation Planner, So that is our
brand new creation. I guess thecatalyst behind that was that I just really
wanted to provide something to non cardreaders, you know, that could kind
(23:03):
of give them the same daily experienceof sitting down and tapping into themselves and
the universe and but not have toread cards. So the focus of this
one, rather than tracking your yourTarot cards daily, is manifestation. You
know what are you manifesting? Soevery day it gives you space to say,
(23:29):
you know, what am I gratefulfor? And then what am I
proud of accomplishing? Like what whathave I already? What goals have I
already hit along my way here?And then what am I manifesting? What
do I still have my eye on? You know that I'm going after?
You know, because there's so muchtalk about manifesting all the way from oh,
think it and you'll have it toyou know, I don't believe that.
(23:52):
Think it and then figure out whataction steps you can take to bring
you closer to that goal. Sothis is in that camp of what do
I want? What steps do Ineed to take? What am I What
am I grateful for? What amI happy for? And yeah, and
then what am I proud of havingdone already? Fantastic? Well, where
(24:15):
can we find these What is thebest way for people to find your products?
Obviously yes on our website, Iwould say, if we're not already
stocking you on Facebook and Instagram,then yes, straight to our website which
is Ritualplanner dot com w R It U A L planner dot com.
It has everything, all of ourplanners, all of our workbooks, all
(24:38):
of our subscription boxes, decks,whatever whatever else we have going on right
now, which we do have kindof like a shifting inventory of some other
products that we source from other small, small maker businesses. And what about
the society if people were interested,could you tell us a little bit more
about what they could get if theyjoined and what that entailed. Yeah,
(25:03):
So the Ritual Society you can findthat at ritualsociety dot com is a membership
group. We are not currently open. We will open again at the end
of December. You can put yourname on a wait list though, and
we will let you know when wereopen. It's a really amazing community of
you know, like minded people,a lot of taro people of course,
(25:26):
a lot of astrology type people.So it's that kind of group and we're
all just really open to you know, helping each other and finding out more
about ourselves. And I would say, in addition to the community aspect,
which really is like the gem ofthe whole thing to just have people on
the same page to discuss with,we do have a guest teacher that teaches
(25:48):
a workshop every month, so that'salways changing. The topic is we have
monthly tarot class. We have amonthly yoga like yoga astrology type class.
What else do we have? Wehave a book club, we have a
buddy program. I'm sure we talkabout the full moons, the new moons
(26:11):
that. Yeah, we've got alot going on there. The society itself
has many, many, many opportunitiesto get involved. Well. It sounds
really exciting, and I look forwardto hearing more about this as the year
comes and getting myself maybe possibly onthat way. I know I've been enjoying
the boxes and I will be doingsome sharing of that soon. What is
(26:34):
one thing that you would want peopleto take away from this conversation in regards
to how to work with your products? I think my number one priority when
people pick up our products is thatthey just make it their own and do
it their own way. I amnot a big rule follower. I don't
(26:56):
find much use for them. Ithink everything is always better when you can
find a way to adapt it toyour own personal needs. So I would
just encourage people to not take itso seriously and so literally, and you
don't have to do it any oneway. So we try and make everything
that we do very supportive, butalso flexible enough that you can make it
(27:21):
work for exactly where you're at andwhat you need in the moment. And
what else would you say, Dana, I would add, just come to
it from where you're at. Youknow, you don't need to do anything
extra, you don't need to beanyone different than who you already are.
Pick the product that works right foryou, you know, pick the plan
(27:42):
or that is the best fit,and just get started right. I think
a lot of people have to havetrouble just beginning things, and once you
can get into that flow' you'll justkeep going. Well, thank you both
for taking this morning to chat withme about this and getting some information out
(28:07):
about this wonderful stuff that you guyshave been doing. I know I've been
enjoying seeing it on my Instagram andmy Facebook as well, and then finding
out more about the society as well. So thank you, and again we'll
have notes in the show, shownotes about where you can find the product,
where you can chat with Dana andwith Sheila when they have time because
they're very busy women doing all thethings, and of course links to join
(28:32):
the society if that is something you'reinterested in or being able to pick up
the Sabbat boxes because I know forme as an act of which it's a
nice little added bonus to my alreadygrowing practices, I do it. So
thank you both for your time,and I really appreciate it. Thanks so
much, Thank you, Rose.You've been listening to Terro Visions. Our
(28:56):
theme music is Melting Fired Dance byJulius H. Michael Charboneau is our editor.
Come continue the conversation by joining Roseon Twitter at Taro Underscore Visions or
on Facebook at Tarot Visions Us
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